Feb. 25, 2022

Kickstarter


Once again I'm joined by professional marketer and crowdfund-whisperer Zack Applewhite, of Applewhite Games, who shares his expertise in producing successful Kickstarters.

  • 01:34 - Reframing Crowdfunding
  • 12:29 - How To Get Started
  • 20:22 - Pricing & Collaboration
  • 32:55 - Promoting an Idea
  • 39:26 - Spend Money to Make Money, and Other Contrived Platitudes
  • 51:37 - Goals and how to Stretch Them
  • 59:32 - Quickfire Tips!

Find Zack on:

Find me on:

References:

Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 18

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of thinking critically today's topic is

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kickstarter

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined once again by zach

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applewhite from applewhite games thank

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you ever so much for joining us the

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second time zach can you tell us a

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little bit about yourself hey thank you

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so much uh so i'm zach atwood i do the

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marketing for applewhite games i am a

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marketer by profession and i also have a

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passion for helping those who are in

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creative spaces

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do better marketing that is easy

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sustainable and doesn't uh cost a

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fortune

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and on top of that i have a reasonably

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extensive background in kickstarter as

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well

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indeed so on that note for those who

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wish to check out our first episode

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featuring zach way back in season 2

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episode 13 on marketing which includes

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many many tips from zack on that those

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exact topics of uh

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how to market oneself without breaking

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the bank which i think is

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as pertinent than ever at least

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in these times

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uh talking of kickstarter however that

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is the topic of today's discussion so

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what does that mean to you in the

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ttrpg framework

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absolutely so kickstarter has been an

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amazing tool

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to watch small creators who do not have

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a plethora of resources

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or enough time to build up an entire

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business to then build a product to then

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try and sell the product to an audience

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that they may not have access to

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kickstarter has just been an amazing

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tool to watch

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tt rpg board games card games everyone

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in our community

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put themselves out there and create

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things and gain the audiences through

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kickstarter as well as their own efforts

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and be able to at the very least have a

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nice little side hustle that feeds their

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creative energy and sometimes even be to

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the point where they're replacing their

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own income and making a full business

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out of it

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i mean i'm

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stoked for this episode because already

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i am like oh i've learned or i've i've

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got a new appreciation for it because

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for me

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i very much i didn't i didn't see it as

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this

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for better from worse this platform for

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people to approach business in a new way

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perhaps i'm

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too traditionalist in my in my older age

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uh of like

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you know

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how businesses

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what makes a business a business uh and

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for me it is

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not kickstarter which i'm hoping to have

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changed that by the end of today's

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discussion that perception

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but then like i always see it as

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and this is limit you know this is due

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to my very limited experience with with

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the platform in

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it just you know crowd

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crowdfunding is just a way for people to

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to get money this is going to sound

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stupid like i'm making a stupid

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comparison here and it is

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it's a crowdfunding is a way to for

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people to get money rather than a way

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to enable those without the

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infrastructure to produce content now

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that might be a stupid

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comparison to make but to me it means

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quite different things and now i'm you

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know thanks to you i'm now stretch i'm

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gonna approach it in that different way

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i mean right i wouldn't say that's

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stupid at all okay i think that a lot of

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people and you have to remember when

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crowdfunding first came onto the scene

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it came onto the scene through maine

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through major media as a guy making a

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potato salad

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raising thousands of dollars

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okay or people making something i think

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like the pebble watch was one of them

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like yes

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weird technology stuff and oftentimes

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especially in the technology section

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people did not get their money's worth

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if they got anything at all

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so there's definitely a reasonable

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amount of skepticism

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in crowdfunding in general and i don't

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think that you're in a wrong place to

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say

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you know that this was just a way and

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some businesses have certainly made it a

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well we're just going to use this as a

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as a money thing that requires very

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little effort on our part

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and

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then then we'll go make money in other

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places too

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where i've where i've interacted with it

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where i've seen it really grow and

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really be uh useful is the tt rpg space

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where unlike technology it has less

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moving parts less places to go wrong

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less parts that need to be sourced from

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not where you from not your own house

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yes so therefore you get a much higher

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success rate

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as far as people getting what they paid

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for

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and you get a lot less of the gimmicky

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i'm throwing a potato salad party give

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me money

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[Laughter]

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you know

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yeah yeah i think

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we're gonna loop back around to that

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later on the specific not the potato

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salad thing stupidly the ttrpg side of

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things i realized my brain is moving

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quicker than my mouth is sorry

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i mean hey maybe that is content people

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want to hear us talk about and uh

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but um like a new new uh

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a new topic for a future episode just

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salad maybe why not

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what does a cell would mean to you

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my character loves it

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i'm texting i can talk about food all

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day but

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um

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so here's the thing that it

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makes me

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curious as a platform is that you have

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both ends the both ends of the extremes

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of

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individuals and companies on it trying

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to do the same thing so you have

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joe smith in his house being like i want

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to make this

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uh ttrpg or whatever it may be

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you know something very small very you

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know just one person woke up one day and

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made an account and bishop and he's on

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there and he

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will raise whatever it

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ends up raising and then literally on an

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identical same platform you've got

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people like oh i don't know if the top

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of my head critical role

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which is a very permanent example to

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give

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who

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you know or you know even other

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businesses and whatnot yeah simon's huge

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on there who sorry simon uh their their

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board game company i know they've run

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some stuff on there you got jamie

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stegmeier got his start on there he's

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the guy that made wingspan

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um and some other stuff and if you want

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a good resource for getting to know

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kickstarter he's had a kickstarter blog

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going for a very long time oh amazing

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and so yeah there is absolutely uh this

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wonderful mishmash

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you know where you have big guys and

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little guys going in there and it's also

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one of the only places

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where

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it has upward mobility in that range

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now chances are you're not going to

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raise uh hundreds of thousands of

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dollars on your first kickstarter but

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it has been done

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yeah you know surprisingly

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and i'll also say because i feel like

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there might be concern there of like oh

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well how do i compete

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when critical roles on there

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yeah you know and so the first thing

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i'll say is uh one

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customers are there for different

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reasons and backing different things not

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everyone who's backing critical role

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will back you but there are a ton of

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people that didn't back critical role

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because they're more into the kind of

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thing you're creating uh correct me if

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i'm wrong you you've backed a couple of

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like major projects on kickstarter

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correct so funnily enough there's at

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least three i can remember because you

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just reminded me of pebble i have my

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pebble watch uncharged at gathering dust

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i might add in my wardrobe um like

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second edition so way way back when

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you know 10 years probably at this point

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and then frost gloomhaven and frosthaven

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board games which uh i'm still waiting

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for frost haven't so

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right and so there's there's a there's

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something to say there the people who

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backed frosthaven many of them are not

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my customer and they're never gonna be

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my customer because they're using

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kickstarter as a kind of pre-order

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platform indeed for what they would have

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ended up buying on amazon and frankly by

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the way it's an excellent investment

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opportunity if you buy

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some of the stuff on kickstarter you

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could buy two of the same thing

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and sell that other like loomhaven if

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you had bought it with all the stretch

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goals that will never go to market

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okay with all of those kickstarter

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exclusives you can sell that second one

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on ebay and you might make your money

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back

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you know upon delivery so i don't fault

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anyone for doing that the comforting

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part is is that

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i didn't back gloomhaven i i've i've

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backed quite a few campaigns on and

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there is a community out there that

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they're not there for the major things

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because if they wanted that they'd go

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into a walmart or a target or onto

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amazon and they buy it for themselves

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there they're there to support small

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creators who are doing interesting

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things

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and there's people in the middle who do

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both

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yep now i must admit

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frosthaven i mean

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to be to be fair to them

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they haven't been helped by

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the state of the world for the last two

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years uh however i did check my i was

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going through turning up my inbox the

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other day and found my my initial like

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confirm your pledge email from

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frosthaven than it was back in like 2019

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or something that was that's pretty

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that's a long time

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to be so like

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stoked and pumped about something so

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much so that you're like willing to

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commit money not you know at that time

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but down the line you're saying yes

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00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:05,760
please

277
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,519
and then

278
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,240
still be waiting and yes you know

279
00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:11,920
provided the world hadn't gone to the

280
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,760
toilet uh

281
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,240
it might it might it wasn't for the five

282
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,240
apocalypses we've had so far

283
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,079
the conveyor belt of apocalypse is just

284
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,839
rolling through down um

285
00:10:20,079 --> 00:10:23,519
it might be in a bit of a better state

286
00:10:21,839 --> 00:10:25,279
but i can see why that

287
00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:27,279
would turn people off and yes you know

288
00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:28,399
the the creator has been very good with

289
00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:30,320
updates and you know i get we get

290
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:32,720
monthly updates on like 70 or something

291
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,680
at this point it's coming into my email

292
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,040
box

293
00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:35,920
and a lot of it is out of their hands

294
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,839
you know

295
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,640
manufacturing and shipping and stuff is

296
00:10:37,839 --> 00:10:40,000
i

297
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,880
i understand

298
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,120
but that that whole process is like

299
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,200
it's it's still a bit bizarre to me to

300
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,480
be like here's the initial conception of

301
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,519
the product

302
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:54,079
you might get it in two and a half years

303
00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:56,560
well but this this is this opportunity

304
00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:59,839
for david and goliath moment here

305
00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:01,680
because it where we've done kickstarters

306
00:10:59,839 --> 00:11:03,120
we have a turnaround of one to two

307
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:05,360
months

308
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,519
okay one because we have a huge

309
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:10,160
advantage and thank god we had this

310
00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:12,399
advantage during all the apocalypses

311
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,640
we've gone through okay is that we have

312
00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:16,480
all digital rewards

313
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,760
right now we haven't busted into print

314
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,680
yet

315
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,680
all right which means

316
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:23,279
we didn't have to worry about any

317
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,360
shortages any

318
00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:28,240
huge shipping errors

319
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,519
or any of that we were just lucky but it

320
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,079
also means for everyone else who's

321
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:34,240
creating ttrpg materials is that pretty

322
00:11:32,079 --> 00:11:36,399
much everything you're creating even if

323
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,920
you can't give them the physical version

324
00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:40,720
you know even if you were caught up

325
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,600
right now in the state of the world you

326
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:46,560
could still give them the ttrp the ttrpg

327
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,680
as a digital version yeah and chances

328
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:49,360
are if you're

329
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:51,279
doing physical products because we've

330
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,360
sold dice bags as well

331
00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:55,440
but we make them all in house

332
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,360
all right so again as long as there was

333
00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,160
the materials around

334
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,720
we can do the shipping and now instead

335
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:05,040
of having to go through 500 different

336
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,519
middlemen you're just going through us

337
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,360
we actually can have an advantage over

338
00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:11,920
the bigger guys because we can

339
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:14,800
communicate as people because we can

340
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:17,360
source our stuff in-house and it's gonna

341
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:19,120
help us get you what we promised you

342
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,959
faster

343
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,880
you know and that's an advantage that

344
00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:25,680
all the little guys

345
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:28,639
have all right is that we can move

346
00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:30,240
quicker yeah more agile

347
00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:32,560
well i while you were saying that i

348
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:36,079
thought of a question that really i

349
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:39,360
should have opened this with

350
00:12:36,079 --> 00:12:40,720
and it's what editing's for yeah

351
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,399
no i'm not i'm not juggling all that

352
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,170
around that's the ship sale mate we're

353
00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:45,440
sticking with it now

354
00:12:43,170 --> 00:12:46,399
[Laughter]

355
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,440
is

356
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,839
how

357
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,480
how do you get started like i think i i

358
00:12:49,839 --> 00:12:55,040
i guess i have an account because i've

359
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,920
i've pledged and backed stuff

360
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,120
um but then say tomorrow was like

361
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,600
i wanna

362
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,440
do season four of thinking critically on

363
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,399
on kickstarter and

364
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,440
try and get some money for my time where

365
00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:08,720
as

366
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,320
a single

367
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,279
naive individual

368
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:15,040
from the uk how do you go about

369
00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:18,320
making a success

370
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:20,320
yeah so crowdfunding in general and i'm

371
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,760
also going to as i kind of describe the

372
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:26,560
process i'm going to kind of help people

373
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,160
identify pitfalls that i i can help you

374
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:32,240
skirt around okay

375
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:35,519
the first thing that um i would say is

376
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:37,440
figure out what the cost of your idea is

377
00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:40,000
and whether it's it's something

378
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,480
manageable the first pitfall i think

379
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,320
most people fall into is that they see

380
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,880
these like oh my god they waste like

381
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,639
hundreds of thousands of dollars

382
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,160
all right and if i can get i'm going to

383
00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:51,920
use board games because that's like the

384
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,160
one of the most cost intensive ones that

385
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,639
i interact with yeah okay

386
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,720
if i can build a board game and i can

387
00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:00,959
sell it i'm going to get hundreds of

388
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,120
thousands of dollars okay so they said a

389
00:14:00,959 --> 00:14:05,440
ten thousand dollar funding goal they

390
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,279
may or may not have priced out exactly

391
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,639
what they need they poured their heart

392
00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:10,399
and soul they might have even

393
00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:12,160
commissioned some art they've really

394
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:14,240
described it they've hopefully built the

395
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,560
game and they and they have the product

396
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,639
and then it falls short they only raise

397
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:20,880
a few hundred dollars

398
00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:22,320
or they they some of them i've seen you

399
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,079
had a ten thousand dollar goal and you

400
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,320
were able to raise five thousand dollars

401
00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:28,560
but kickstarter is an all or nothing

402
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,720
platform because kickstarter wants you

403
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:34,000
to be responsible and they want you to

404
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,000
come in and say the number you need

405
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,240
to send down not the number you want to

406
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,079
feel successful and comfortable

407
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,079
you know if you say you need ten

408
00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:44,079
thousand dollars then nine thousand nine

409
00:14:42,079 --> 00:14:45,360
hundred ninety nine dollars means that

410
00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:46,720
these people aren't going to get their

411
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,760
product because you didn't have enough

412
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,680
money yeah is what kickstarter assumes

413
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,160
so the first thing that i see people

414
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,639
fall into is that they don't actually

415
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,519
need ten thousand dollars

416
00:14:56,639 --> 00:15:00,320
okay and because you're just starting

417
00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:03,519
out

418
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,839
you have a whole lot of things to learn

419
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:07,600
and mistakes to make before you're

420
00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:10,880
actually good at this

421
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:13,440
because most artists most creators

422
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,959
aren't also marketers as a profession

423
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,360
like i am they're not as fortunate as me

424
00:15:14,959 --> 00:15:19,519
they're not business people as well

425
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:22,160
they're nerds first

426
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:24,240
you know and and business people second

427
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,959
i am fortunate enough to be business

428
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:29,199
first and nerd second

429
00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:31,759
thanks my wife converting me over to the

430
00:15:29,199 --> 00:15:32,560
wonderful world of ttrpgs

431
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:33,759
okay

432
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,240
so

433
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:38,959
the first kickstarter i ran

434
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:43,440
the goal was one dollar

435
00:15:38,959 --> 00:15:45,199
okay i sold personalized poetry

436
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,560
for one dollar

437
00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:51,519
i raised forty four dollars

438
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,360
okay and i gained a small audience of

439
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:55,920
twenty or so people

440
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:58,000
the next campaign that 20 or so people

441
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,880
became 30 or so people

442
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:03,759
all right i eventually and it only cost

443
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:07,040
me about 200 dollars to do

444
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:09,279
i eventually compiled the poems the one

445
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,759
dollar poems from my past kickstarters

446
00:16:09,279 --> 00:16:13,199
into a book and i sold the book

447
00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:14,959
so the first thing that i think people

448
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:18,639
can can do is

449
00:16:14,959 --> 00:16:21,839
really compartmentalize your idea

450
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:25,279
into something as small as possible

451
00:16:21,839 --> 00:16:26,000
yeah all right and what can you do

452
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:29,120
for

453
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,959
a ten dollar hundred dollar funding goal

454
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,720
all right this helps you there's a

455
00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:34,880
natural audience on kickstarter who are

456
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,880
going to happen upon you with no

457
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,720
marketing on your part it'll be small

458
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:42,240
it'll be 14 people

459
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:44,000
okay that's 14 more people than you had

460
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,680
and they gave you your money and you

461
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,399
have their attention because every time

462
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,720
you make a kickstarter update on that

463
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:52,399
project they get an email so you have a

464
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,000
pseudo email list

465
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:55,440
of people who have engaged with you and

466
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,120
given you money in the past and if

467
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,720
they've given you money in the past

468
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,279
their propensity to give you money in

469
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:04,799
the future is really high

470
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:07,039
okay so by starting small you gain

471
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:08,959
confidence you make all your mistakes on

472
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:10,720
something that is smaller that is a much

473
00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:13,360
smaller stake that if you

474
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,280
fail you didn't lose tens of thousands

475
00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:17,039
of people's dollars on something they

476
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,959
didn't get

477
00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:22,959
you know if something goes wrong it went

478
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:24,559
wrong on a one dollar 100 campaign yeah

479
00:17:22,959 --> 00:17:25,199
you know so the first thing i would say

480
00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:26,559
is

481
00:17:25,199 --> 00:17:28,079
make it small

482
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:29,520
what can you do for one dollar can you

483
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,919
write a poem can you i've seen

484
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,960
watercolors of flowers for five dollars

485
00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:37,360
a piece poems about sandwiches i've seen

486
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:40,880
feel free to get gimmicky

487
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:41,840
okay write one a one dollar dungeon

488
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,520
all right

489
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,480
anything you can do just to get

490
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,919
experience under your belt that's value

491
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,799
that's the thing you need to work on

492
00:17:47,919 --> 00:17:52,960
first is your experience okay

493
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:54,080
and then you can build on it from there

494
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,400
and then

495
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,480
what exactly to do it's very simple you

496
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,520
log in you make your account you go to

497
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:04,640
the creator page kickstarter is very

498
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,880
uh consumer friendly as far as creators

499
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,960
go they make it very easily give you

500
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,520
lots of resources and map out here's

501
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:14,080
where to put your story your video do

502
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,760
you have collaborators

503
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,360
try and use your images and you have to

504
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,440
send it you have to connect it to your

505
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:20,960
bank account and then you need to send

506
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,960
it in for review

507
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,760
where the kickstarter team will actually

508
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,760
look at it and say well this is a scam

509
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,440
so yeah you're not allowed okay that's

510
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,679
why you don't get actual scammers on

511
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:34,080
kickstarter almost at all

512
00:18:31,679 --> 00:18:35,840
all right uh you have to put your actual

513
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,200
id in there they want to make sure

514
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,720
you're a human being and that you're not

515
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,240
just gonna waste people's money and then

516
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,799
not be held accountable right

517
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,080
kickstarter is very good about that

518
00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:45,840
and then sometimes we'll give you

519
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,840
feedback so when i first started i could

520
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,360
do a one dollar campaign i tried to do

521
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,480
that because i was selling a one dollar

522
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:55,360
holiday d d special just as kind of a

523
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,640
almost a freebie gift to people who have

524
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,320
supported me

525
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,160
and they said no

526
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,440
you can't do one dollar you need to do

527
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,640
you need to do higher than that one

528
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,440
dollar

529
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,919
they said it feels disingenuous

530
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,760
so make it higher and so so we did but

531
00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:11,760
what can you do for ten dollars

532
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,360
you know and that that's that's the

533
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,520
start that's it

534
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:17,840
um i think a couple of points there so

535
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,000
firstly that is similar to the i think

536
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,160
you called it way back when the content

537
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,400
chop shop and in that context we were

538
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,679
talking about social media content and

539
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,160
how you can

540
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:31,440
turn a tweet in you know or turn a blog

541
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:33,679
post into several tweets turn a youtube

542
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,000
video into several tick tocks and then

543
00:19:33,679 --> 00:19:37,600
several videos tick tocks the podcast

544
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,280
absolutely exactly yeah and so it's the

545
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,200
same trainer thought right that you

546
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,280
could turn a you know maybe several

547
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,360
large projects or one large project into

548
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,280
several smaller projects to build that

549
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,919
ground swell to build that momentum to

550
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:52,480
put that grassroots kind of uh support

551
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:55,200
from the community that that is my jam

552
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,360
that is the model by which i have found

553
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,960
a lot of success for example the

554
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:01,440
kickstarters were due right now we're

555
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:05,440
doing everything digitally we do hope to

556
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:08,720
compile it all into a full volume tt rpg

557
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,640
book with additional materials added in

558
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,640
and then sell the full book and go into

559
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,320
print but now we're gonna have a little

560
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,720
bit of money in the bank

561
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,360
um so that if we make mistakes it's on

562
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,720
our dime and not on our backers

563
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,760
but you but you had something else you

564
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,440
wanted to say i think it was more around

565
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,600
a question of

566
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,520
and we probably talked about this last

567
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,960
time as well but

568
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,640
i think here it's probably more

569
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:36,240
pertinent in that trying to

570
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,159
ascribe

571
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,159
value to

572
00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:42,799
something so is it you know one dollar

573
00:20:40,159 --> 00:20:44,480
is it ten dollars is it fifty dollars uh

574
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:45,760
again so if i was you know as we've been

575
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,799
talking i've been rattling through my

576
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,480
brain

577
00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:50,159
trying to think of like what would i do

578
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,240
what could i you know how would i word

579
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:54,159
it and what would i do and how much of

580
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,960
that and you know that train of thought

581
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:58,240
always ends up at inevitably how much is

582
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,080
that what i mean i've got a type of

583
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,440
number at some point that has to go that

584
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,840
people are going to see and either bulk

585
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,679
at or go oh okay let me get my wallet

586
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,840
right so how do you

587
00:21:05,679 --> 00:21:09,520
how does anyone

588
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,640
people must do it i'm i'm i've never

589
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,400
sold any

590
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,559
you know sold anything independently

591
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,080
before so for me it's a completely alien

592
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:17,280
concept but obviously there are artists

593
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,440
out there there are content creators out

594
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,880
there that do sell physically you know

595
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,720
they're map makers out there that people

596
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,559
such as yourself so it must be something

597
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,080
that you can do you know should i just

598
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:28,720
fall back on my academic business

599
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,120
studies you know my masters in

600
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,280
in in management around like look at

601
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,200
what the competition is and

602
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,640
work around there and

603
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,880
see what kind of budget your customers

604
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,080
have and work around that

605
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,440
yes so

606
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,640
pricing

607
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,760
is so much fun if you're a marketer and

608
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,159
it is the

609
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,960
worst horror story if you're not

610
00:21:48,159 --> 00:21:52,720
so i i completely get your coming from

611
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,840
here's a couple of perspectives you can

612
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,559
take from it

613
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,400
one make sure you're covering your costs

614
00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:00,320
so do a calculation

615
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,960
if you're doing any physical product or

616
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:05,280
require any shipping whatsoever

617
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,840
make sure that you have that cost that

618
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,559
expected cost written down and then pop

619
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,480
at least 20 on top of that and that's

620
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,240
your minimum price

621
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,559
and that is not even making a great

622
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,640
profit that is more that 20 is more in

623
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:21,200
case of a shipping crisis like we're

624
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,200
having right now yeah okay if you're

625
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,480
lucky like me and you're doing

626
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,000
everything in house or you're

627
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,240
collaborating with others who are doing

628
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,919
things in their house as well your only

629
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:34,320
actual cost is labor yeah time okay

630
00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:37,039
so now you're just looking at okay well

631
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,200
here's the product and product alone no

632
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,440
i'm not gonna pay myself for my labor

633
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,120
okay because i really just want to

634
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,360
create this thing and any profit that

635
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:47,440
happens after it is a bonus okay

636
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:49,200
assuming you're working on a side hustle

637
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,039
and not a full pledge business at this

638
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,080
point like most people on kickstarter

639
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:54,320
are

640
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,919
the number one place as you mentioned is

641
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,159
look at competition

642
00:22:55,919 --> 00:22:59,440
look specifically on kickstarter don't

643
00:22:58,159 --> 00:23:01,679
think about what people are doing on

644
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,360
dm's guild that's a different platform

645
00:23:01,679 --> 00:23:05,280
that's like pricing something in walmart

646
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,039
versus target you're not selling in

647
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,400
walmart you're selling a target

648
00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:11,760
okay so look at how prices are on

649
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:16,000
kickstarter

650
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:18,799
and in general i tell people definitely

651
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,799
to start on the higher end of pricing

652
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:22,720
let's say you've done this a one dollar

653
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:24,880
campaign you sold stuff that from one to

654
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:28,000
five dollars okay

655
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,679
and now you're ready to put out a fuller

656
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,559
rpg module

657
00:23:29,679 --> 00:23:34,480
i would say if you're doing non-digital

658
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:35,280
minimum five dollars

659
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,520
okay

660
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,799
i did my first tt rpg was a

661
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:45,279
collaboration it was all hand-drawn art

662
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:48,640
hand-drawn maps and it was not picasso

663
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:50,559
and i told the story and i am not

664
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,520
uh stephen king

665
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:54,080
okay

666
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,520
and so it was still good and i enjoyed

667
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,360
it and other people enjoyed it we sold

668
00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,000
it for five dollars

669
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,760
all right and people bought it

670
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,000
which surprised the hell out of my wife

671
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,960
and is why she joined on and be and we

672
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,240
formed applewhite games okay for five

673
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,279
dollars

674
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:14,320
that needs to be bare minimum digital

675
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:16,400
labor and no no no nothing into it yeah

676
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,679
minimum five dollars it's just worth

677
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:22,000
your time yes okay you just you did the

678
00:24:19,679 --> 00:24:23,039
thing here's five you get five dollars

679
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,200
yeah okay

680
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:28,799
all right i price our ttrpg stuff at ten

681
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,400
dollars full price

682
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:33,440
eight dollars if you're on the early

683
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,760
bird and whenever we go off of

684
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,840
kickstarter and onto the full-blown

685
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,520
market we're probably gonna price around

686
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,840
12

687
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,880
that is based on what people are willing

688
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,360
to pay and to answer the root of the

689
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,080
question of what is anything worth it is

690
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:52,799
worth what people are willing to pay

691
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:56,240
so the market is the person you need to

692
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:58,799
ask and the only way to ask it is to put

693
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,679
a price tag on it and see what happens

694
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:03,520
yep okay and of course

695
00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:05,919
there there just is no true answer have

696
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,320
you ever heard of banksy yeah oh yeah i

697
00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:10,720
mean he's he's a he's a compatriot of

698
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,880
mine so yeah okay so

699
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,240
banksy all right the graffiti artist

700
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,640
just make sure we're talking about the

701
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,120
the right person right yeah wonderful

702
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,640
depending on where he sells his work it

703
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:23,600
can be worth hundreds or thousands of

704
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,159
dollars or it can be worth ten

705
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,320
right you've seen him uh i've i've seen

706
00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:30,000
social media where he takes his graffiti

707
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,520
art and tries to sell it on the streets

708
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,960
of new york

709
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:37,360
and it's worth forty dollars there

710
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,440
but it's worth tens of thousands of

711
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,600
dollars to the the same piece of art to

712
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,640
a different person

713
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,840
okay

714
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,320
and

715
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,400
that that's the whole game right there

716
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,400
all right it's not even about finding

717
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,799
the right price it's about finding the

718
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,760
right person

719
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,600
all right

720
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,760
there are going to be a hundreds of

721
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,880
thousands of people who will say no to

722
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,520
your product

723
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,559
they don't matter it's okay that they

724
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,520
said no

725
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:05,520
all right

726
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,760
that's just not for them

727
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,559
you're trying to find the person

728
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,679
who sees the value and is willing to pay

729
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:13,120
for it

730
00:26:11,679 --> 00:26:13,919
just like banksy

731
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,360
yeah

732
00:26:13,919 --> 00:26:16,640
and obviously

733
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:18,880
people can listen to the marketing

734
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,470
episode to find out how to how to find

735
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,200
those people

736
00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:22,559
[Laughter]

737
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,480
there's a lot of ways and this is this

738
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:26,320
is the other part of uh that's great

739
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,400
about kickstarter is that when you start

740
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,000
small you can start with kickstarter's

741
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,520
audience

742
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,320
you know they have their own audience

743
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,240
you launch people can browse by category

744
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,480
uh oftentimes they're just looking for

745
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,400
what's newest and hopefully you capture

746
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,400
their attention and they say one dollar

747
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,600
for a poem what the hell is this guy

748
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:48,480
thinking and they give you money

749
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:52,080
just to see what happens yeah and then

750
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,679
if you do a good job they come back and

751
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,640
they're there to support you the next

752
00:26:53,679 --> 00:26:58,880
time and that is how we've been able to

753
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,080
build our business is by

754
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,000
showing up

755
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,919
and getting we have an excellent

756
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,720
customer return rate because we perform

757
00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:08,320
excellently for our customers and that

758
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,240
makes all the people you're reaching out

759
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,000
to on social media

760
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,000
as you create content which again you

761
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,840
can listen to the marketing episode to

762
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,080
really get into how to create social

763
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,120
media content and get people's attention

764
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,240
over time

765
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:22,480
all the people who were on your

766
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,159
kickstarter audience show people who

767
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,600
were just being introduced to you via

768
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:27,840
social media

769
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,240
how much authority you have how much

770
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,679
relevance you have and how trustworthy

771
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,200
you are

772
00:27:31,679 --> 00:27:36,799
i love that

773
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:38,399
there's still this basic tenant of

774
00:27:36,799 --> 00:27:39,360
which is the same for like traditional

775
00:27:38,399 --> 00:27:41,120
business

776
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,440
and crowdfunding businesses that if you

777
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:44,880
obviously if you provide good content

778
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,000
people will come and people will come

779
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,919
back

780
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,640
and that doesn't change you know from

781
00:27:47,919 --> 00:27:52,480
from some guy selling some beans uh in

782
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,720
his backyard to

783
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,880
his critical role making seven billion

784
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,880
bazillion pounds on

785
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,640
crowdfunding it's like right the content

786
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,559
is has to be good

787
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,919
and that's fine and you'll get customers

788
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:06,000
the content has to be good the

789
00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:09,039
communication has to be good the product

790
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,919
has to be good you you have to to if you

791
00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:11,760
don't

792
00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:14,480
really enjoy what you're doing or what

793
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:17,039
you're putting out it's going to show so

794
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:20,000
another another comment there is don't

795
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:21,120
just make what you think people will buy

796
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,440
okay

797
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,880
make something that you're proud of

798
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,679
selling

799
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,159
i i was proud of the fun i had selling

800
00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:31,200
one dollar poems again i'm not robert

801
00:28:30,159 --> 00:28:32,399
frost

802
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,559
okay

803
00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:38,720
but my poems were fun and i enjoyed them

804
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:39,919
and the people who who paid for them

805
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,240
enjoyed them

806
00:28:39,919 --> 00:28:44,720
and so that all comes out in the content

807
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,320
and it comes out in the interactions and

808
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,200
that that's going to help you build a

809
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:51,919
really true authentic brand as well

810
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,919
which is actually something that is very

811
00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:55,760
dear to my own heart that that word you

812
00:28:53,919 --> 00:28:57,919
use there that authentic

813
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,720
brand that's something that's very you

814
00:28:57,919 --> 00:29:02,559
know high on my list of uh

815
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,039
corporate social

816
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:07,919
targets is you know identity is

817
00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:11,279
is that authenticity i'm super keen on

818
00:29:07,919 --> 00:29:12,960
remaining uh humble and you know it is

819
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:14,080
it's just a one-bat it's just me at the

820
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,640
end of the day so i quite like to

821
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,840
leverage that

822
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,360
that uh

823
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,200
you know it's just it's just some dude

824
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,960
in england to try to make a podcast so

825
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,039
you know i can i can definitely see why

826
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,760
that authenticity there is

827
00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:30,240
is key especially when there's so many

828
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,640
competitors to be frank out there and on

829
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,799
the platforms and stuff that that range

830
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,880
from from all sorts which you know

831
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:38,159
brings up another excellent point okay

832
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,440
because you said a few things there that

833
00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:41,200
i want to touch on

834
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,600
you said one you're just one guy in

835
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,760
england and two you brought up the big

836
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,840
competitors and so i wanted to bring up

837
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,039
another thing that people can do because

838
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,360
let's say

839
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:54,000
you're really good at art or you're

840
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,320
really good at the writing the planning

841
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,840
the tables or you just have all these

842
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,320
ideas for monsters and you can make

843
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,440
their stats but you're not an artist

844
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,720
yeah right how do you make a tt rpg

845
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,159
without art

846
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,919
it's really hard okay yeah okay then you

847
00:30:08,159 --> 00:30:10,880
gotta at least give them a stick figure

848
00:30:09,919 --> 00:30:13,120
right

849
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,640
again i got started actually

850
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,880
collaborating

851
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,760
okay someone mentioned on twitter that

852
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,760
they wanted to make a tt rpg

853
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,360
and sell it and that they were open to

854
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,240
collaborators which twitter is an

855
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,840
excellent place um to just be introduced

856
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,919
to people who are interested in what

857
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,039
you're interested in and you can make

858
00:30:29,919 --> 00:30:33,039
this happen

859
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:35,600
and so i had no

860
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:38,559
artistic ability whatsoever these guys

861
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,480
we had a map guy we had an art guy and

862
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:42,799
what this does is now you're not taking

863
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,039
on the goliaths alone you're not on

864
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:47,760
kickstarter alone now you have three

865
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:50,640
guys who each have their own audiences

866
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:53,200
that they can kind and their own friends

867
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,520
that they can reach to and you're

868
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,600
collaborating on a project that makes

869
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,559
the whole thing a little less scary for

870
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,399
one

871
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:03,120
because you're not doing it all alone

872
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:05,360
yeah and it also will make your product

873
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,880
better because now you have people who

874
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,240
were helping you

875
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,559
and three

876
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,000
now you can all share each other's

877
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:14,320
audiences

878
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,880
you tag each other you share each other

879
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,480
you're building a small cohort i haven't

880
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,320
pursued that myself because i'm lucky

881
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,760
enough to have a live-in artist and a

882
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,200
writer

883
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,000
being my wife

884
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,760
but that is absolutely a business model

885
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,080
that you can go into and i've seen work

886
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,519
for some people is just collab collab

887
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,279
collab collab

888
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:35,039
worry about the product worry about the

889
00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:36,799
brand don't worry about the money yet

890
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:38,320
because you're not you're building a

891
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:41,039
name for yourself

892
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,440
and as long as your costs are covered

893
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:44,799
then that's enough because eventually

894
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,159
you're going to have the audience that

895
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:51,120
you and the friends the connections to

896
00:31:48,159 --> 00:31:53,519
really pivot and really take a go at

897
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,960
something bigger and grander that you

898
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,880
that is for yourself and that you can

899
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,039
make money on

900
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,720
i'm gonna go and i'm just gonna

901
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:02,000
go and find a new girlfriend who can do

902
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,120
art because then that'll take that box

903
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,159
to me

904
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,600
be right back while i break up my

905
00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:07,600
current one uh two seconds later

906
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,039
um yeah no

907
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,840
to be clear i mean it's no secret to

908
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:15,120
anyone that i am

909
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:19,519
ineffective wow look what a nice

910
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,519
political term to use to myself there uh

911
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,000
i i like that i'll start calling myself

912
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,919
an ineffective artist yeah i didn't know

913
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,360
why that word came to me but i kind of

914
00:32:27,919 --> 00:32:32,080
in love with it now

915
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:34,240
it's it's it's it sounds so much better

916
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,799
than complete than being a complete

917
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,399
garbage artist yeah yeah there's some

918
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:39,840
words there's like an implication there

919
00:32:38,399 --> 00:32:41,440
but everyone's too polite to dig a

920
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,760
little deeper no that's it now that's my

921
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,760
new uh

922
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:48,420
[Music]

923
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:55,760
[Music]

924
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,679
okay cool thank you so much for the

925
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,320
advice so far it's been you know this is

926
00:32:57,679 --> 00:32:59,039
all

927
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,960
well

928
00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:03,039
for any given set of

929
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,600
kickstarters that have started there'll

930
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:07,760
be times 100 more people that have

931
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,440
thought about it and haven't wanted to

932
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,360
start or didn't know where to start were

933
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,960
too scared to start for whatever reason

934
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,120
which is why i think discussions like

935
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,039
this are very powerful because

936
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,000
if we can you know reach at least one

937
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:19,760
person

938
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,679
who at one point thought oh should i do

939
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,360
it or don't really know where to begin

940
00:33:21,679 --> 00:33:26,080
i'll just forget about it for now but

941
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,960
then we can change that mindset to oh

942
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,039
actually

943
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,519
oh yeah i do i do chat to that guy on

944
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:33,039
twitter who's produced a map let me hit

945
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:33,840
him up and see if we can

946
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:35,039
and then

947
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,880
you know they'll do they'll do that leg

948
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:38,640
work for me and suddenly

949
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,480
they've gone from

950
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,840
creating nothing into maybe creating you

951
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,360
know something adding adding something

952
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,039
to the universe and that would be

953
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,440
fantastic and that's where i think the

954
00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:48,799
power of today's show specifically is is

955
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,200
hopefully in

956
00:33:48,799 --> 00:33:52,399
creating more better content for the

957
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,760
universe wow

958
00:33:52,399 --> 00:33:54,270
wow couldn't have sounded more arrogant

959
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,080
now

960
00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:58,480
[Laughter]

961
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:01,039
you're welcome universe uh

962
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,820
yeah i'll take an iou for creating some

963
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:04,720
content for you here yeah no worries

964
00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:06,559
[Laughter]

965
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,119
i look forward to the pearly gates at

966
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:10,639
the end of it all yep no worries right

967
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:12,079
i've earned it right

968
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,119
yeah

969
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:16,000
christ

970
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:18,879
uh anyway so yes um

971
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,480
another question i had around and again

972
00:34:18,879 --> 00:34:22,800
we touched on it in the last episode

973
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,480
around promotion self-promotion in

974
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,320
artists and we would have talked at that

975
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,079
time around

976
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,280
the content shop shop and twitter and

977
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:31,040
facebook and all the different social

978
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,919
medias

979
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,000
i wanted to reframe that question

980
00:34:33,919 --> 00:34:38,320
specifically within the scope of

981
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,919
kickstarter are there any tools i know

982
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,839
you mentioned that there's you know an

983
00:34:39,919 --> 00:34:44,240
embedded audience who will go you know

984
00:34:41,839 --> 00:34:46,240
daily and search via new kickstarters

985
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:47,119
and stuff like that is there any other

986
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:49,119
things

987
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:52,079
specific to

988
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:53,919
running a kickstarter when it comes to

989
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,919
promotion and

990
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:58,400
selling your product i guess it's not a

991
00:34:55,919 --> 00:35:00,960
product selling a set of products or a

992
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:04,720
service that that's yeah that's all up

993
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,160
to what what exactly you're selling so

994
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:08,400
to get to the root of the question being

995
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,320
like how do you promote the kickstarter

996
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,320
first and foremost make sure you have a

997
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,079
good kickstarter page because it doesn't

998
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,680
matter how many people get to the page

999
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:16,400
if you can't convert them once they're

1000
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,920
there

1001
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,720
it's all for not

1002
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,640
all right so yes you'll you'll have an

1003
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:25,359
inherit audience and that is an

1004
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:29,119
excellent like test market of how do i

1005
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:31,599
how am i appearing is my pricing good

1006
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:34,640
those are right there

1007
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:36,720
for smaller projects like the one dollar

1008
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,320
yeah i don't like i don't even recommend

1009
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,480
you don't even need to blast out to your

1010
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,079
friends and family in my view

1011
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,359
unless you you think they'd be

1012
00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:48,400
interested or find it fun or uh my my

1013
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:52,480
mom my wife found it hilarious to give

1014
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:55,200
me um funny topics to write poetry on

1015
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,119
and so i i had fun uh sharing it around

1016
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,440
like here torture me and see what

1017
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:00,560
happens and see what happens

1018
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,839
you know

1019
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,920
that that reminds me the old like

1020
00:36:01,839 --> 00:36:05,440
fairground you know where you'd pay to

1021
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,440
fling a sponge so maybe this is a

1022
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,119
uniquely british thing but i don't know

1023
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,720
when you'd pay a pound you know a fate

1024
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:12,160
to throw a sponge at somebody in the

1025
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:14,079
stocks or something it's that that has

1026
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,640
reminded me of that like pay me a pound

1027
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:19,040
and put me make me do some stupid poetry

1028
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,359
or something like that like

1029
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,920
right and so i i had to rhyme with the

1030
00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:25,280
word booger nugget okay okay

1031
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,119
and i

1032
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,119
pulled it off somehow

1033
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:30,960
all right but uh

1034
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:32,880
but so share around with your friends

1035
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,880
and family if you like if it's something

1036
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,040
you genuinely think that that they might

1037
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,960
get a kick out of that they might enjoy

1038
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,599
or that they might know other people who

1039
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,560
would get a kick out of or enjoy it all

1040
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:46,320
right and for but for that first one i

1041
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,880
think it's less about gaining your

1042
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,800
audience it's more about making sure you

1043
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,359
have the kinks worked out a little bit

1044
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,200
first and starting to grow an audience

1045
00:36:53,359 --> 00:36:58,160
naturally on kickstarter

1046
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,920
now hopefully while you're doing that

1047
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,680
and while you're doing other stuff

1048
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:04,240
i do recommend you do

1049
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,880
non-kickstarter related content

1050
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:08,720
that is in the audience that you're

1051
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,800
wanting to reach so

1052
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:12,400
you can go back to the marketing podcast

1053
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,200
but i will give a quick rundown right

1054
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,240
now

1055
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:18,480
my marketing philosophy is what can i do

1056
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:22,000
while i'm sitting on the toilet

1057
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,040
okay i started by just tweeting every

1058
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,119
day

1059
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,640
eventually i was able and i'm just

1060
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:30,800
tweeting funny gifts memes retweeting

1061
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,960
you know i'm just moving and shaking

1062
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,640
with other people on twitter and i'm

1063
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,000
only doing that at minimum once a day

1064
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,400
okay

1065
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,599
fast forward a year later i can now read

1066
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,400
those tweets

1067
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:47,359
and now they're on tick tock where i now

1068
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:49,839
have over 6 000 subscribers

1069
00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:52,320
and now i'm moving all my tick tocks

1070
00:37:49,839 --> 00:37:54,480
over to youtube because youtube shorts

1071
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:57,440
is trying to do what tick tock is doing

1072
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,680
and if i post any vid a regular

1073
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,920
full-length video on youtube and i don't

1074
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,320
shout it out anywhere i might get two

1075
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,800
views but taking them from tick tock to

1076
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:09,119
youtube shorts where youtube really

1077
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,599
wants people to like youtube shorts so

1078
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:14,560
they're boosting completely unknown

1079
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:17,280
people like myself on youtube i'm able

1080
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,400
to get a few a couple hundred thousand

1081
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,720
views

1082
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,880
and uh a handful of subscribers i i'm

1083
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:24,880
only in the hundreds you know but

1084
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,880
considering that i haven't shared my

1085
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,320
youtube on any other social media

1086
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,400
platforms

1087
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,520
that's fantastic

1088
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:36,240
and so take what you can do

1089
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,160
start there build on that

1090
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:41,359
and that's going to help you gain your

1091
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:44,240
audience it also really can't hurt for

1092
00:38:41,359 --> 00:38:46,000
you to go out and support other people

1093
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,240
one because you'll learn from their

1094
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,920
failures and their successes if they're

1095
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:52,000
running kickstarters like the ones

1096
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,880
you're planning to run in the future

1097
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,480
and two because perhaps down the line

1098
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,839
there will be some reciprocity and

1099
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,599
you'll make some friends and genuine

1100
00:38:57,839 --> 00:39:01,599
connections

1101
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:04,640
beyond that you could go into paid

1102
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:06,400
advertising but unless you have

1103
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,560
money in the bank that you're willing to

1104
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,839
lose i wouldn't do it

1105
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,400
you know i

1106
00:39:09,839 --> 00:39:15,119
i focus as much on free i've only

1107
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,760
started doing paid advertising on

1108
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:20,079
facebook for the last campaign we did

1109
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,240
and this campaign and i'm not at a place

1110
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:24,560
where i can really advise you on it

1111
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:26,640
because i'm still working out the kinks

1112
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,640
um i think you know we're lucky to live

1113
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,320
in a day and age where

1114
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,160
there are several avenues several

1115
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,720
vectors of free

1116
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,000
advertising and marketing and

1117
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,920
we should all do our best to leverage

1118
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000
those as much as possible

1119
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,079
and you know when you when you're not as

1120
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,760
fortunate as you are as you said before

1121
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,599
like to come from that business oriented

1122
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,079
background where you're aware of

1123
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:50,560
spending money to making money to use a

1124
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:52,960
trite platitude but that that kind of

1125
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,880
methodology no investment is the correct

1126
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,200
damn for it but it was you know it was a

1127
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,520
bit rich for me even to i know this

1128
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,839
isn't advertisement specifically but to

1129
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,520
buy obviously i wanted to produce

1130
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:06,160
as we said earlier on something to be

1131
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,800
proud of and i want to be proud of the

1132
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,680
show and part of that was having decent

1133
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:14,560
audio quality so i was like i want to

1134
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,839
invest in a decent you know a decent

1135
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,599
hardware rig

1136
00:40:15,839 --> 00:40:19,440
and i and i did so

1137
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:21,200
but that's very much because i'm i'm you

1138
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,920
know a fortunate position in my life to

1139
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,640
be able to avoid much uh you know afford

1140
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,960
it

1141
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,960
but it was still a bit of a

1142
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,160
a bit of a bit of a bit of pill to

1143
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,160
swallow to be like this is just some

1144
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:35,040
money that i'm not going to see any

1145
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,480
any returns on apart from yep that i'm

1146
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,720
going to be maybe slightly more proud of

1147
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,839
the content and advertising is very much

1148
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:41,680
the same

1149
00:40:39,839 --> 00:40:42,880
and even more of a gamble in some cases

1150
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,640
because it might

1151
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,880
not pay off at all

1152
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,480
especially when it's you know

1153
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,760
a newbie such as myself like i wouldn't

1154
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,000
know how to

1155
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:54,400
get the formula right for you know an

1156
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,880
effective facebook

1157
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,920
promoted post like the you know the seo

1158
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,319
you should use the wording you should

1159
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,920
use the calls to action you should use

1160
00:41:00,319 --> 00:41:04,319
yes i can leverage a bit of my academic

1161
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,079
experience but in terms of like

1162
00:41:04,319 --> 00:41:08,000
the facebook marketplace for adverts in

1163
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:10,160
2022

1164
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,760
come listen to podcasts please it would

1165
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,920
be as you know

1166
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,720
as effective as i could get it

1167
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,920
right and so that's uh that'll all be

1168
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:22,240
better after you've sold it a little bit

1169
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,160
you know i didn't like i said i've run a

1170
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:26,319
total of i think 17 kickstarter

1171
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,119
campaigns wow and it wasn't until after

1172
00:41:26,319 --> 00:41:31,680
the 15th one that i said you know what i

1173
00:41:29,119 --> 00:41:34,000
think i'm ready to pay to sell this

1174
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,280
wow you know i think i have the images i

1175
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,440
think i have

1176
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,920
the knowledge about my product i think

1177
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:43,760
i've sold it enough times

1178
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:46,400
that i can uh sell it to an audience who

1179
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,319
knows nothing about me

1180
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,359
okay because that's it it's interruption

1181
00:41:48,319 --> 00:41:52,160
marketing

1182
00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:53,200
those people are not on facebook to find

1183
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,599
you

1184
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,440
if you're advertising to them they are

1185
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,680
on facebook just to interact with their

1186
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,640
groups their friends and you just happen

1187
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,400
to show up and say hey i got a thing if

1188
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,160
you want money for it

1189
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,920
and if you're going to do that

1190
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,760
you got to be good at it

1191
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,520
you know and i

1192
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,280
professional marketer i'm still not

1193
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,880
great at it it doesn't mean other people

1194
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,079
could there are people who were able to

1195
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,359
hop on and just get it and i applaud

1196
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:21,839
those people

1197
00:42:19,359 --> 00:42:23,359
but uh if i was you know in in your

1198
00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:25,680
position that you talked about earlier

1199
00:42:23,359 --> 00:42:27,599
you know just talking about investing

1200
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,720
i want to reassure people that even if

1201
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:31,359
you wanted

1202
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:33,760
you just needed it to be a podcast

1203
00:42:31,359 --> 00:42:36,800
okay you weren't going you can't do a

1204
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:39,520
blog you don't have it in you to to do

1205
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,839
gimmicky stuff poetry and you just

1206
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:44,400
really want to create a podcast or

1207
00:42:41,839 --> 00:42:45,760
something i encourage everyone

1208
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,319
to remember

1209
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:51,760
that some of the greatest men in the

1210
00:42:48,319 --> 00:42:54,400
world's history who moved the world uh

1211
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,640
in ways that affected generations

1212
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,160
did so with ink and quill and

1213
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,200
candlelight

1214
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:03,200
okay if you have a smartphone

1215
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,760
you have a better tool than most of the

1216
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,599
most influential people in history ever

1217
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,240
could have dreamed of

1218
00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:14,160
and it might not be what you

1219
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:15,920
want in the end but it is what you have

1220
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,079
and it is better to work with you ha

1221
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,079
with what you have to create something

1222
00:43:18,079 --> 00:43:21,119
than to dream and end up creating

1223
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:23,520
nothing

1224
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:25,920
now you you were lucky you had

1225
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,560
the resources and you had the completely

1226
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,480
correct mindset to say i'm going to put

1227
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,960
this money in but it's because it's what

1228
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:35,440
i believe in not because i expect a

1229
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,520
return on investment anytime soon

1230
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,440
you know and so if you had that

1231
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,119
mentality i would say then absolutely go

1232
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,480
for it as long as you know what you're

1233
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:44,880
getting into

1234
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,280
then absolutely go for it but for those

1235
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,760
who don't have the res the resources

1236
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:52,319
all i can say is get scrappy

1237
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,040
you know i i did a podcast for a little

1238
00:43:52,319 --> 00:43:56,960
bit it got views i recorded it on my

1239
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,319
phone it just took too much time for me

1240
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,160
so i dropped it

1241
00:43:58,319 --> 00:44:02,720
because i need what i can i have two

1242
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,800
kits and a job and at some point at one

1243
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:05,680
point i had two kids a job and college

1244
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,560
yeah

1245
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,599
all right

1246
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:12,319
my time is super constrict i can't edit

1247
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:13,520
audio i can't i don't have that yeah so

1248
00:44:12,319 --> 00:44:16,800
i dropped it

1249
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:18,880
doesn't mean that if you have the time

1250
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,440
all you really need to start anything

1251
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,760
right now is a smartphone yeah yeah i

1252
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,119
must say not that i use the mobile

1253
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,119
versions of the

1254
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:28,720
my podcast host

1255
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:29,920
but i do know that pretty much all of

1256
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:32,319
them have got

1257
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,160
direct from phone uploads

1258
00:44:32,319 --> 00:44:35,599
like i think i've made it literally

1259
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,359
they've reduced as many walls as

1260
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:39,760
possible between

1261
00:44:37,359 --> 00:44:41,920
somebody talking and

1262
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,680
the audience on the other end listening

1263
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,280
has been reduced and reduced and reduced

1264
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,640
until it's just like a couple of clicks

1265
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:51,119
away yeah it's not ideal but it gets it

1266
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,359
gets it done yeah and done is better

1267
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:54,960
than ideal in the short term because you

1268
00:44:53,359 --> 00:44:56,960
just need to get it done

1269
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,079
you can have the greatest manuscript in

1270
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,240
the world

1271
00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:03,520
written but if it stays in your desk

1272
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:05,839
drawer it has zero value

1273
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,839
you know and and so i say this loud and

1274
00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:10,480
i know i'm interrupting you i'll i'll

1275
00:45:07,839 --> 00:45:12,480
stop after i say this i really just say

1276
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,520
this because too many people say no

1277
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,760
before they've even tried because they

1278
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:21,040
think that they don't have the tools

1279
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,480
that they need and they just haven't

1280
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,359
unlocked the part of their brain that

1281
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,160
says

1282
00:45:23,359 --> 00:45:25,920
that

1283
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,480
no they do not need a professional

1284
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:32,240
recording studio to start a podcast

1285
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,839
they just need the time and a smartphone

1286
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:35,920
yeah you know and i just want to empower

1287
00:45:33,839 --> 00:45:38,000
everybody to remember that they if they

1288
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,560
have the passion the time and the

1289
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,480
smartphone that there is a lot that they

1290
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,800
can accomplish

1291
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,560
yeah absolutely you know and to

1292
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,440
piggyback off the back of that you know

1293
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,400
when i

1294
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,760
started

1295
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,640
i didn't have anything it was literally

1296
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,319
just my home you know pc because i'm a

1297
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,920
historically a traditional pc gamer and

1298
00:45:54,319 --> 00:45:57,839
stuff like that so i already have

1299
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,280
that set up rather than my mobile phone

1300
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:00,960
uh maybe it's an age thing aren't they

1301
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:04,480
uh but anyway

1302
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:08,480
i didn't start in a studio i didn't have

1303
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,920
my gear i didn't have any idea at all no

1304
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,119
gear no idea

1305
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,359
and

1306
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:15,520
this is where we find ourselves today uh

1307
00:46:13,359 --> 00:46:17,920
so but it was very very similar like i

1308
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,440
just used what i had at home

1309
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,280
the free the free

1310
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,359
you know set audio recording stuff the

1311
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,440
free audio editing stuff the free

1312
00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:28,560
podcast hosts and

1313
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,280
it works i say confidently

1314
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,760
no

1315
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,599
you you i have seen you continue to grow

1316
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,920
your content continues to get better

1317
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:37,359
your guests continue to be

1318
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,560
of uh

1319
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:41,680
i think overall averaging higher profile

1320
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,800
and i would say you're on the right

1321
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,160
track

1322
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:47,440
oh you just complimented a number of

1323
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,440
guests as well sounds good

1324
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,319
the the one thing the only stupid joke i

1325
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:53,839
want to say about like having obviously

1326
00:46:52,319 --> 00:46:55,200
i said i've invested in some better

1327
00:46:53,839 --> 00:46:57,839
quality gear so now i'm not just using

1328
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:00,240
like my gaming mic for how i'm talking

1329
00:46:57,839 --> 00:47:02,160
to you right now right pros

1330
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:04,240
i like technology and it's another piece

1331
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,839
of kit to learn and to understand and a

1332
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:08,880
cool little snazzy thing to sit on my

1333
00:47:05,839 --> 00:47:11,440
desk cons turned me into an audio snob

1334
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,800
so

1335
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,200
things i'd never used to notice before

1336
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,119
or care about and now i'm like well they

1337
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,440
didn't record that on a on a microphone

1338
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:20,559
that was uh yeah connect oh there's an

1339
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,000
edit there

1340
00:47:20,559 --> 00:47:23,760
sloppy

1341
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,400
i'll use that as an excuse not to learn

1342
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,240
new things like oh i could learn violin

1343
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,640
but then i wouldn't like every other

1344
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:32,720
violinist and so that's all that's

1345
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,000
holding me back

1346
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,280
well that probably says more about me

1347
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,839
than it does about learning anything

1348
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,319
else but

1349
00:47:36,839 --> 00:47:42,640
yes my bed to bear

1350
00:47:40,319 --> 00:47:44,000
but yeah no

1351
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,280
it has i mean at the very least this

1352
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,400
discussion has made me start to think

1353
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,559
about

1354
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,760
kickstarter as a

1355
00:47:48,559 --> 00:47:53,359
viable

1356
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:56,559
platform of selling

1357
00:47:53,359 --> 00:47:58,240
my my product you know it's

1358
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,920
requires

1359
00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:01,839
some thought but again i wanted to add

1360
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:03,119
here i've just realized that

1361
00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:04,839
off of what you were saying earlier on

1362
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:07,040
like i have now a

1363
00:48:04,839 --> 00:48:07,920
semi-established base of

1364
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,319
you know

1365
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,160
colleagues and listeners and and friends

1366
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:13,599
and supporters

1367
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,599
of the show

1368
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:17,359
who i can now leverage should i wish to

1369
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:18,559
go on any of those kickstarter endeavors

1370
00:48:17,359 --> 00:48:20,800
i can say hey

1371
00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:21,920
i had an artist on once let me reach out

1372
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,200
to them and see if they want to

1373
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:27,200
collaborate or i had uh in fact i am i'm

1374
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,880
collaborating on a non-kickstarter piece

1375
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,599
of content creation at the moment but

1376
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:33,119
that's through a previous guest

1377
00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:35,119
and can i give you a piece of advice on

1378
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:37,920
that of course so

1379
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:38,800
the best way to do that

1380
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,760
is

1381
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:44,079
it's i call it just a soft ask

1382
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,599
all right is that in say instead of

1383
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:47,520
saying hey

1384
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:49,520
would you back my kickstarter

1385
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,960
when you've got the page you get a

1386
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,920
preview link

1387
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,520
okay

1388
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,280
and you can send that preview link to

1389
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,720
people and you say hey listen this is my

1390
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,160
first kickstarter i'm a little nervous

1391
00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:00,319
about this i've talked with you in the

1392
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,319
past and i value your opinion can you

1393
00:49:00,319 --> 00:49:04,400
please look at this and then just tell

1394
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:06,240
me give me feedback

1395
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,319
okay what do you like what do you not

1396
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:09,760
like one your kickstarter page will

1397
00:49:08,319 --> 00:49:12,079
become better

1398
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:15,040
two you now have people who have

1399
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:16,800
invested themselves in it first

1400
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,559
before ever even thinking about giving

1401
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,359
you money and you haven't asked them for

1402
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:23,680
money so now you're you haven't like

1403
00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:26,319
altered that relationship indeed you

1404
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,400
know now now you get to like maintain

1405
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:31,040
and you get to be the authentic person

1406
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,640
you desire to be right because you

1407
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,319
haven't augmented your relationship

1408
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,480
you've said can you be the friend that

1409
00:49:34,319 --> 00:49:38,240
you are and look at this for me if you

1410
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,599
don't give me a dime that's fine i just

1411
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:41,440
want your opinion because that's going

1412
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:43,920
to be the most valuable thing at the end

1413
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,359
but i will also say that chances are

1414
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,359
because they've invested themselves in

1415
00:49:45,359 --> 00:49:49,200
this a little bit by giving you that

1416
00:49:47,359 --> 00:49:52,720
critique they've probably followed the

1417
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:55,280
page from that link that they are likely

1418
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:56,240
to if not back you at least shout you

1419
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,000
out

1420
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:00,240
you know because

1421
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,559
how now that they've worked on it even a

1422
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:04,319
touch even just reading a little bit or

1423
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:05,359
watching the the video or looking at the

1424
00:50:04,319 --> 00:50:08,960
images

1425
00:50:05,359 --> 00:50:11,040
now it's a semi reflection of themselves

1426
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:13,520
and they want you to they want it to do

1427
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,839
well yeah plus hopefully they're your

1428
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,920
friend and they want you to do well just

1429
00:50:15,839 --> 00:50:20,640
just in of itself yeah absolutely

1430
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,880
absolutely i really i really love that

1431
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,960
that approach actually and it is it

1432
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,960
makes it a lot less silly and even as a

1433
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,680
person who has to sell things for a

1434
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,680
living oh it sucks

1435
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:34,559
no one likes asking for money you have

1436
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,720
to do it all right but uh if you can

1437
00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:38,960
find a way to

1438
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:41,280
maintain a relationship beyond the

1439
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,119
business aspect of it that's always my

1440
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,520
way to go

1441
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:47,440
yeah no absolutely it is

1442
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,880
i love maintaining that as you said that

1443
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,760
keeping that relationship dynamic the

1444
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,280
same is super important and

1445
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,599
sometimes you know although it's robust

1446
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,720
as friendships can be they are also

1447
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:58,240
sometimes

1448
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:59,359
fragile when it comes to that kind of

1449
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,599
stuff like everyone's been in that

1450
00:50:59,359 --> 00:51:03,520
situation when it's you're you're eating

1451
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:05,200
dinner out at a restaurant with a number

1452
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,160
of you know group of people maybe some

1453
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,720
you don't know when it comes to

1454
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,319
splitting the bill and it's immediately

1455
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:11,680
the air of the conversation has changed

1456
00:51:10,319 --> 00:51:13,920
because it's like

1457
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,680
do we do it evenly do we pay and waste

1458
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:18,400
you know a lot of time going around

1459
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,079
doing it individually and i don't really

1460
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,680
know you that well so i don't really

1461
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:23,520
want to pay for like it's

1462
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,720
you're already in that awkward world so

1463
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,880
yeah it's

1464
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,800
despite everybody's best intentions and

1465
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:31,200
most people being nice people there is

1466
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,520
always that you know so yeah anything

1467
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:36,800
you can do to mitigate that is i'm

1468
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:38,000
completely on board with one final thing

1469
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,880
i wanted to talk about which is very

1470
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:43,440
unique to kickstarter is kind of stretch

1471
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:45,040
goals so yeah so

1472
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:48,640
so far a lot of our discussion as a

1473
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:50,400
result has assumed that there is a a

1474
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,559
product or a service

1475
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,440
something at the end you know one

1476
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:55,920
main

1477
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:58,480
item one main piece

1478
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,040
had a stretch goal was kind of fold

1479
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,800
into that discussion

1480
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:05,040
with regards to

1481
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:07,119
ttrpg so say like

1482
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:10,079
i want to create a book of

1483
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:11,680
100 fleshed out npcs

1484
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:12,640
literally just improvised off the top of

1485
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,760
my head

1486
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:17,599
no you know any similarities to

1487
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,079
current live or dead kickstarters is

1488
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:22,559
entirely coincidental um

1489
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:24,319
but then how do you

1490
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:25,839
what part in the process do those

1491
00:52:24,319 --> 00:52:27,359
stretch goals come in

1492
00:52:25,839 --> 00:52:29,040
and

1493
00:52:27,359 --> 00:52:30,720
is there any kind of like

1494
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,240
maybe conflict of interest is too strong

1495
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:34,160
a word but again maybe it's that

1496
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:36,559
disingenuity

1497
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,559
folds in there to be like oh maybe i'm

1498
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:40,160
well it's the classic you know like dlc

1499
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:41,680
complaint that video games have found

1500
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,119
themselves in you know back in my day

1501
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,800
you'd pay for a video game and you'd get

1502
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:46,079
all the content and now they keep half

1503
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,680
the content away from you make you pay

1504
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:51,359
for it is it are we in the same you know

1505
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,599
it can can the same argument be leveled

1506
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:55,040
at stretch goals i'm not i please don't

1507
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:56,800
please tell me you know if i'm i'm

1508
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,480
pushing any lines or you know making it

1509
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,960
making it awkward for you at all but i'm

1510
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:04,720
this is a sincere question from my point

1511
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:06,880
of view no i i've heard this uh and i i

1512
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,240
get it because i think that the point of

1513
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,119
view being like

1514
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:12,880
well

1515
00:53:09,119 --> 00:53:15,119
if this game is going if it was meant to

1516
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,440
have uh metal coins instead of cardboard

1517
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:18,960
coins and if it was meant to have all

1518
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,040
the story like why are you selling me

1519
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,200
half a product

1520
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,960
you know is the point of view the way

1521
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,480
first off let's talk about the creation

1522
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,920
of script of stretch goals and then i'll

1523
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,160
talk about the messaging around stretch

1524
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,720
goals yeah so first off stretch goals on

1525
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:35,200
our end happen very naturally because

1526
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:38,160
you start with something more than but

1527
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:40,000
around a minimum viable product yep

1528
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,920
right which is what do you need for it

1529
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,280
to be functional for it to not be a

1530
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,640
clunky mess

1531
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:49,440
okay for it to be consumer ready yeah

1532
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:51,680
but not the best it can be the problem

1533
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:54,400
is the best it can be

1534
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,319
is this big wide vast open thing the

1535
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,079
best thing it could be is to have an app

1536
00:53:56,319 --> 00:54:01,040
for it but i'm not an app developer and

1537
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:04,079
no one i don't not don't have that money

1538
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:07,359
all right so best it can be

1539
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:09,119
is just too big of a term so especially

1540
00:54:07,359 --> 00:54:11,119
if you're you're putting this in your

1541
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:13,760
your cost is your labor

1542
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:15,520
all right you need to limit yourself to

1543
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,400
something that you say finally you know

1544
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,800
what it's done enough

1545
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:23,040
i would want it to be better but i

1546
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,720
haven't already invested hours of my

1547
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,800
time and energy

1548
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:28,960
and if they're not willing they need to

1549
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,880
be willing to pay for this

1550
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,640
because if i just keep putting more and

1551
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:35,200
more and more it'll never get done it'll

1552
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,640
never get launched and is the value are

1553
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,160
they going to actually pay more for all

1554
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:41,040
the value i'm putting in here do i now

1555
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,200
have to up my pricing and so on

1556
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:45,280
okay what happens with our thing

1557
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,880
naturally is that we think okay here's

1558
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,119
the maps we need here's the characters

1559
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,839
we need we'll start out with a couple

1560
00:54:49,119 --> 00:54:52,799
pieces of character art these couple of

1561
00:54:51,839 --> 00:54:53,760
maps

1562
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:57,359
and

1563
00:54:53,760 --> 00:55:00,480
here's the story and this is the thing

1564
00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:02,559
all right everything that that's more

1565
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,400
than that is the bonus that's the

1566
00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:06,640
stretch goal would it be nice to have

1567
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,920
more maps and more character arc of

1568
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,119
course it would

1569
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,359
and that's what the stretch goals are

1570
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:13,119
for so as we're making it we're

1571
00:55:11,359 --> 00:55:14,640
naturally thinking of yeah we want to do

1572
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:16,960
that but we don't have

1573
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:19,040
we we can't just use all our resources

1574
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:21,200
right now let's get the kickstarter and

1575
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:24,079
we'll make that a stretch goal because

1576
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,520
does it actually do i actually need it

1577
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:26,799
for them to play through the dungeon do

1578
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,640
i need them to have that piece of

1579
00:55:26,799 --> 00:55:30,880
character art no

1580
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:33,359
they can still play through the dungeon

1581
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,119
the art is an added extra flavor thing

1582
00:55:33,359 --> 00:55:37,280
that makes it more immersive and more

1583
00:55:35,119 --> 00:55:39,359
fun and it does add value

1584
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,760
so let's make them part if they really

1585
00:55:39,359 --> 00:55:44,480
want that value they'll tell us by

1586
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,880
helping us reach that stretch goal

1587
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:49,280
you know and then as far as like what

1588
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:52,319
what do you add to ttrpg that's that's

1589
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:55,119
what we've usually done is more maps

1590
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:58,079
more character art um and we've also

1591
00:55:55,119 --> 00:56:00,799
done side quests where they're not

1592
00:55:58,079 --> 00:56:03,040
necessary to the plot but it's more to

1593
00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:06,240
playful playthrough and the location

1594
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,480
that we've uh created around

1595
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:11,359
you know or more interest npcs to

1596
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,799
interact with uh there's just always

1597
00:56:11,359 --> 00:56:15,839
more there's endless amounts more and

1598
00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:18,160
i've never seen uh people in our

1599
00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:20,799
industry have trouble coming up with

1600
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,960
more ideas it's a creative industry

1601
00:56:20,799 --> 00:56:24,559
indeed yeah all right so you need to

1602
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,640
limit yourself because if you just keep

1603
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:28,160
on saying well it's not if i can create

1604
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:31,200
more it must create more it'll just

1605
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:32,640
never get done i think if currently if

1606
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,640
i'm wrong along with the minimum viable

1607
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,160
product we can use the moscow rule of

1608
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,760
you know must-haves should haves could

1609
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,079
have some wood halves so i guess that

1610
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,920
could be a useful tool for somebody out

1611
00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:43,680
there and the bare minimum viable

1612
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,520
product would be all the the must-haves

1613
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,680
and then the stretch goals can be the

1614
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,119
coulda woulda shoulda's on top

1615
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,440
and i'll also say like uh here's a

1616
00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:52,880
perspective what do you do when if

1617
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,880
you're creating something for your own

1618
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:58,720
group what do you do because i don't

1619
00:56:54,880 --> 00:57:01,200
create character arts and maps and uh

1620
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:03,680
several plot points and npcs i make up

1621
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:06,160
most of my stuff on the fly

1622
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,400
you know i have maps in my head or or i

1623
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:10,160
have it laid out but have i made it

1624
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,480
graphically appealing to a consumer

1625
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:16,319
audience no and do i play it and still

1626
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,040
have fun and my table has fun absolutely

1627
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:19,359
so

1628
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,280
chances are

1629
00:57:19,359 --> 00:57:23,599
and this is true for every creative

1630
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:26,000
person chances are you're being too hard

1631
00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:26,799
on yourself yeah absolutely yeah you

1632
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,839
know

1633
00:57:26,799 --> 00:57:32,400
chances are and chances are

1634
00:57:29,839 --> 00:57:34,240
that you're giving people something a

1635
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,680
lot more than they would have ever made

1636
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,440
for themselves

1637
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:39,040
and that's the that's the value you need

1638
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,920
to start with that's that's your

1639
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,920
cornerstone build from there yeah you're

1640
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,559
your own worst critic as they say and

1641
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,359
that is something i'm still

1642
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:48,880
like

1643
00:57:47,359 --> 00:57:50,480
in the early days of the the audio

1644
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,359
production for this show it was very

1645
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:55,280
much like i went through it millisecond

1646
00:57:53,359 --> 00:57:59,119
by millisecond of the fine-tooth comb

1647
00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:00,400
editing and they're only now like 70

1648
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:02,079
episodes in

1649
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,480
i am learning to be like you know what

1650
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:06,000
i'm just i'm just gonna i miss that edit

1651
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,559
and i don't i'm just gonna let it go i'm

1652
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:10,000
just gonna move past and keep on editing

1653
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:11,359
the rest of the show

1654
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,440
and

1655
00:58:11,359 --> 00:58:16,000
honestly it hasn't

1656
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:17,440
impacted the final product at all the

1657
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,720
only thing is i've had to grin and bear

1658
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,400
it a couple of times but of course that

1659
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:24,000
process is getting easier as i'm like

1660
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:26,079
nope leave that it's fine move on

1661
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,000
because you also if you burn out and you

1662
00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:29,520
and you end up not creating a product at

1663
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,240
all and now you've done the worst thing

1664
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,760
you could have done precisely yeah yeah

1665
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,760
and it is it is

1666
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,839
don't sweat the small stuff other

1667
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,720
platitudes but it is it's that burrito

1668
00:58:37,839 --> 00:58:42,160
method of like just concentrate on the

1669
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,440
on the big ticket items that have the

1670
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:46,319
most impact

1671
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:49,359
editing out one harsh s in an

1672
00:58:46,319 --> 00:58:50,799
hour long episode is nobody cares anil

1673
00:58:49,359 --> 00:58:52,880
like

1674
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:54,880
just because that that's exactly it's

1675
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:57,359
just like when in the marketing podcast

1676
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:59,359
where i talk about bad content doesn't

1677
00:58:57,359 --> 00:59:01,760
get seen because that's

1678
00:58:59,359 --> 00:59:04,319
the way of bad content is that uh it's

1679
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:07,599
very similar in this like that that hard

1680
00:59:04,319 --> 00:59:08,880
s is a fraction of a second yeah keep

1681
00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:10,799
going they're going to keep scrolling

1682
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,480
past your content if it's bad they're

1683
00:59:10,799 --> 00:59:14,799
going to keep going they probably won't

1684
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,640
even notice it's like missing one key in

1685
00:59:14,799 --> 00:59:19,359
a piano recital

1686
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:22,160
you hear it loud and clear yeah your

1687
00:59:19,359 --> 00:59:25,280
grandma didn't notice yes

1688
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:26,799
yep precisely yeah

1689
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,079
well um

1690
00:59:26,799 --> 00:59:30,319
is there anything that you wanted to

1691
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:32,160
talk about that we haven't had the

1692
00:59:30,319 --> 00:59:36,079
chance to yet you know what can i just

1693
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:38,400
go through a quick fast fire best

1694
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:40,799
practices for anyone who's looking to

1695
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:43,119
launch kickstarter absolutely please all

1696
00:59:40,799 --> 00:59:44,559
right absolutely so first thing at the

1697
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:47,200
end of a kickstarter you send out a

1698
00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:49,119
survey you are only allowed to ask for

1699
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,799
what you need to fulfill so for us we

1700
00:59:49,119 --> 00:59:54,319
only ask for an email address to send

1701
00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:56,400
your digital rewards but in an update

1702
00:59:54,319 --> 00:59:58,000
you can also give another survey that

1703
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,079
says let us know what you thought of

1704
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,839
that final product by the way do you

1705
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:04,000
want to sign up for our email list or

1706
01:00:01,839 --> 01:00:07,599
follow us on social media that's a great

1707
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:09,599
way to re-engage your people and connect

1708
01:00:07,599 --> 01:00:10,960
with them outside of kickstarter because

1709
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:13,920
you don't want all your eggs in one

1710
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:15,760
basket number two is you can have

1711
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,359
creative rewards for

1712
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:20,400
all these things you can have people

1713
01:00:17,359 --> 01:00:23,200
name npcs in your thing or add their dog

1714
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:25,119
or you can have a villain named danilo

1715
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:27,359
you know if you pay a little extra

1716
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:28,960
people love to put themselves into the

1717
01:00:27,359 --> 01:00:31,280
thing that they're helping to create on

1718
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:33,680
kickstarter so if you give them a little

1719
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:36,400
extra room and they're willing to pay a

1720
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:38,880
surprising amount more sometimes to just

1721
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,640
put themselves in the story or in the

1722
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,440
product in some way

1723
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:45,040
number three early birds which is where

1724
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,760
people who show up earlier in the

1725
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:49,839
campaign they get to pay a little less

1726
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:51,200
because they're they're right there and

1727
01:00:49,839 --> 01:00:53,920
they're really helping you they're your

1728
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,839
super fans right it used to be you could

1729
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,359
only make that an amount of people like

1730
01:00:55,839 --> 01:00:59,440
the first 10 people

1731
01:00:57,359 --> 01:01:01,680
you can make that 48 hours you can make

1732
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,960
that 24 hours listen we've done that

1733
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,480
game changer

1734
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,720
game changer because now it's not

1735
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,160
excluding the 10 people who might not

1736
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,359
have even been our super fans they might

1737
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,440
have just seen that we launched on

1738
01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:12,880
kickstarter never heard of us before and

1739
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,160
they're first in line ahead of the

1740
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,799
people who've been supporting us for the

1741
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:19,599
past 15 campaigns that's not fair

1742
01:01:16,799 --> 01:01:23,359
nope 30 people get it because

1743
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:25,040
48 hours and after it cuts out it's done

1744
01:01:23,359 --> 01:01:27,280
and you don't have any empty slots so

1745
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:29,040
you don't look bad it's wonderful

1746
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,440
another talk on

1747
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,200
complete game changers kickstarter has a

1748
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,760
new add-on feature

1749
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:37,839
as you build new campaigns new

1750
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:40,079
kickstarters any products you had from

1751
01:01:37,839 --> 01:01:42,880
the past one if you're like us and it's

1752
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:44,960
digital you can say hey you can buy the

1753
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:47,200
last one that was um ten dollars full

1754
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,040
price it's now nine dollars

1755
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,640
and you can add on which makes their

1756
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:53,440
baskets bigger

1757
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:55,359
which is going to get you funded faster

1758
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,920
and you're reselling stuff that's

1759
01:01:55,359 --> 01:01:59,039
already been created no extra work to

1760
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,720
you

1761
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:02,799
an amazing feature that was complete

1762
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:05,119
game changer for us and is a great

1763
01:02:02,799 --> 01:02:07,520
tactic as you continue to grow

1764
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:09,680
thank your backers with a message every

1765
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:12,240
whenever you get a new backer it helps

1766
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:14,640
them stay engaged it helps you introduce

1767
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,319
yourselves and it doesn't take much and

1768
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,960
i know it doesn't feel

1769
01:02:16,319 --> 01:02:20,720
like it does much but a quick thank you

1770
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,640
actually feels like a lot for these

1771
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,599
people who are taking a bit of a chance

1772
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,559
on you

1773
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:27,520
all right

1774
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:29,839
track your links you can use bitly or

1775
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:31,359
kickstarter referral and if you have any

1776
01:02:29,839 --> 01:02:33,280
questions on that it's really intuitive

1777
01:02:31,359 --> 01:02:36,480
but you can youtube it and it'll teach

1778
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:39,039
you and last of all is i recommend

1779
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,400
before creating a kickstarter back a

1780
01:02:39,039 --> 01:02:42,799
kickstarter

1781
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,799
all right at least one this is also the

1782
01:02:42,799 --> 01:02:46,480
social media thing you shouldn't start

1783
01:02:44,799 --> 01:02:49,280
creating content on a platform you

1784
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,200
haven't consumed content on that's like

1785
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,400
someone who's never seen a movie trying

1786
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,079
to make a movie

1787
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:56,480
it wouldn't go well

1788
01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:59,520
all right be a consumer before you're a

1789
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:02,000
creator and your content will come out

1790
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:04,319
better i promise

1791
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,640
and that's that's the fast fast track

1792
01:03:04,319 --> 01:03:10,240
for you save it re-listen if you need to

1793
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:12,160
amazing thank you so much

1794
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,599
that was that was fantastic because we

1795
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,039
really back loaded the episode there

1796
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:17,039
with like

1797
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:18,640
so for those who stayed here and

1798
01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:20,880
listened to the end they are going to

1799
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,480
get the most value yeah yeah they're the

1800
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,880
super fans they've been here the whole

1801
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:29,280
time i wanted i wanted to reward them

1802
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:29,280
yay super fans yeah amazing thank you

1803
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,200
um

1804
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:34,960
well awesome so with that with all those

1805
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:37,039
awesome details in mind

1806
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,160
is is there anything you would like to

1807
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:40,240
promote

1808
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,680
oh boy would i

1809
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,839
so as

1810
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:45,280
will not be a surprise

1811
01:03:43,839 --> 01:03:47,359
we're lucky enough to be running a

1812
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:49,200
kickstarter at the time it's really

1813
01:03:47,359 --> 01:03:50,079
fortunate i didn't actually plan it this

1814
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:53,520
way

1815
01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:55,359
at the time of this podcast being out

1816
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:58,559
we are running a kickstarter until the

1817
01:03:55,359 --> 01:04:01,440
end of february so if you're listening

1818
01:03:58,559 --> 01:04:03,440
and it's past february sorry you'll just

1819
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:06,319
have to follow us on kickstarter and

1820
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:08,559
watch for our next release everyone else

1821
01:04:06,319 --> 01:04:10,079
this is your last chance so hop on it's

1822
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:11,520
journey to the center of aragarth it's

1823
01:04:10,079 --> 01:04:13,599
campaign meant for high level

1824
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:15,599
adventurers to challenge their abilities

1825
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:17,680
level up your characters and have at it

1826
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:20,880
comes complete with maps character art

1827
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:22,720
and a new ooze sub race that i'm really

1828
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,079
excited about and of course you can

1829
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,559
follow me on

1830
01:04:24,079 --> 01:04:29,200
any social media almost under apply

1831
01:04:26,559 --> 01:04:32,000
games or zack applewhite well my

1832
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,799
interest is peaked at the ooze sub race

1833
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,520
so

1834
01:04:32,799 --> 01:04:36,400
yes that was kaelin's idea and it i love

1835
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,920
it

1836
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,240
no spoilers you'll you'll have to go to

1837
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:42,000
the kickstarter yeah of course uh and as

1838
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:44,160
usual the link to that will be in the

1839
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:46,799
episode description as will the link to

1840
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:48,720
zach's previous episode marketing as as

1841
01:04:46,799 --> 01:04:50,000
we said a couple of seasons ago uh which

1842
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,599
i would encourage every any of the

1843
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,839
content creators out there to check that

1844
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:55,920
out as well it pairs very nicely with

1845
01:04:53,839 --> 01:04:57,920
this episode i must say

1846
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,680
otherwise the only thing left to say is

1847
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,079
thank you ever so much for for joining

1848
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:04,880
me again today zach it was a very very

1849
01:05:02,079 --> 01:05:07,440
insightful episode always a pleasure i

1850
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:09,920
am an american at heart i love to hear

1851
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,440
myself talk uh and if anyone else out

1852
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:13,920
there wants me on their podcast reach

1853
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:16,240
out please

1854
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,599
i need i need more guests uh who love to

1855
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,920
hear themselves talk because it makes my

1856
01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:22,960
life so much easier

1857
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:25,760
so no thank you zach thank you everybody

1858
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:28,240
for listening at home i hope you all i

1859
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:31,280
mean i know you all took out as much

1860
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:32,640
uh value from from this show as i did

1861
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,119
please do check out all the links in the

1862
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,520
episode description to the kickstarter

1863
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:39,839
kickstarter and all their socials

1864
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:41,839
as are all of mine including my patreon

1865
01:05:39,839 --> 01:05:43,360
and kofi and who knows maybe one day

1866
01:05:41,839 --> 01:05:44,480
there'll be a kickstarter in there too

1867
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,720
[Laughter]

1868
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,640
otherwise thank you all for listening

1869
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,240
and good night

1870
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,119
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1871
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,280
outs

1872
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:56,240
thank you to robert hartley

1873
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:59,359
dm for viva the dirt league and writer

1874
01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:00,880
on the d d logic web series

1875
01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:03,680
i would encourage everybody to check him

1876
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,720
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

1877
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,960
twitch

1878
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:09,440
thank you to optional rule a two time

1879
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:12,240
guest of the show and a very insightful

1880
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,440
and knowledgeable source of information

1881
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,440
please check them out at

1882
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,440
www.optional.com

1883
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:22,559
huge huge thank you to a great friend of

1884
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:25,440
the show matthew perkins who's out there

1885
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:27,760
making hilarious and educational

1886
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,839
dungeons and dragons content please go

1887
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,559
and check out his stuff at

1888
01:06:28,839 --> 01:06:32,960
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1889
01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:34,480
links to all of his socials and all of

1890
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,160
his content including his own patreon

1891
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,000
which i would very much encourage you to

1892
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,880
check out

1893
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,799
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1894
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:44,079
on twitter for supporting the show

1895
01:06:42,799 --> 01:06:47,079
if you need support running your

1896
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:49,280
personal or business schedule head to

1897
01:06:47,079 --> 01:06:50,960
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1898
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:53,039
make that difference between should do

1899
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,799
and done boss it better with support

1900
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:57,119
from cat who will help you get back that

1901
01:06:54,799 --> 01:06:58,640
essential time you've been searching for

1902
01:06:57,119 --> 01:07:00,480
if you would like to support what we do

1903
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:03,200
and get four shout outs a month head

1904
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,720
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1905
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:08,710
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1906
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:15,730
kofi.com thinking critically

1907
01:07:08,710 --> 01:07:36,000
[Music]

Zack Applewhite Profile Photo

Zack Applewhite

Marketer

Zack Applewhite is a professional marketer specializing in localized Search Engine Optimization.

In his spare time Zack is Head of Marketing at Applewhite Games. A company he runs with his wife producing original D&D5e materials.

Having successfully run a number Kickstarters, while working full-time hours, getting his degree, and raising a family, Zack knows very well how difficult it can be to produce and market a product in one's spare time.

He's here today to share his knowledge and experience with the intent of encouraging and empowering listeners to market as well as they can with the what they have.