Feb. 11, 2022

Alignment


Once more I'm joined by Scott, a.k.a. Optional Rule! This time we discuss the hot topic of alignment in Dungeons & Dragons. Scott takes us through the history of alignment, and how it impacted and shaped the earliest editions of the game - I'm willing to bet you never knew how the cold war affects your player character! Despite all the (arguably justified) negativity around alignment, it still provides value in the utility of a consistent experience, the same reason USB is so ubiquitous! However, with all things involving humans, there is always the risk of misalignment (pun intended). Often there is the implicit ideal that the player characters are "heroes", that is to say, "good". How this impacts the design of 5e and the DM/Player interaction is a subtle but noticeable effect of alignment.

  • 01:15 - History of Alignment
  • 16:40 - Scorched Earth Solution
  • 21:34 - Does Alignment Stifle Role Play?
  • 30:04 - The Alignment Police
  • 43:46 - Reconciling the Heroic Trope

Find Scott (@optionalrule) on:

Find me on:

References:

  • 'Agency' episode of Thinking Critically

Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 16.

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today's topic is alignment

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined once again by scott

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aka optional rule thank you ever so much

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for joining us again today scott can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself

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thank you so much for having me on again

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it's great to be here my name is scott i

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go by optional rule on social media i've

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been gaming for about 40 years i've done

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a few small publications i write a small

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blog at optionalrule.com and you can

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follow me for twitter on twitter for d d

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advice and all sorts of gaming

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discussions at uh at optional rule on

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twitter amazing i think i think our

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discussions on stuff hasn't really

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stopped since the first time we've had

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you on the show which is which is really

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good and i'm very happy about that so

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yes i would encourage anybody that's got

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this very open to discussions on topics

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talking of topics today's is alignment

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so what does that mean to you in the d d

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framework no boy alignment oh man

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there's so much to unpack here so we've

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got a little while to do that so let's

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let's get into it so alignment is the

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biggest nothing burger

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in dnd to me yet it's something we can't

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avoid right it's one of the most

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complex yet least impactful topics

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uh in the game

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and i'm i'm of many minds about it so

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let's just start with a history like d

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and d started out with alignment way

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back in the original pamphlet and that's

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because d d started with this concept of

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like who do i attack it came out of war

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games right and in war

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very clearly you know who the good guy

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is you know who the bad guy is and that

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that concept came out of that like

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really generic definition of who a

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person is right that and that began in

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the earliest days of dnd and i know that

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gygax and arneson had this very

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strong concept of your alignment almost

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like your religion that uh they would

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think that it was like a guild some

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combination of a religion slash guild

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where alignments would have languages

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and so it was so deeply ingrained into

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the dna of early dnd

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that we just not extracted it from that

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going forward even though right now it's

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it's just in fifth edition it's just

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quasi attribute right

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it's supposed to kind of define

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something about your character but in

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the end it really doesn't beyond a

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little bit of flavor maybe on a few

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spells like spirit guardians you do

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necrotic damage versus radiant yeah no

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his his

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this is going to be a great discussion

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because you you can you can fill in the

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gaps in my knowledge from from you know

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the older editions that i can have the

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perspective of someone who's just just

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coming in a fifth edition and his i'm

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gonna open today's discussion with

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calling myself a hypocrite which is

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great

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but i always tell players

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when i'm when i'm trying to get them to

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engage with their characters i'm like

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look at the first page of a character

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sheet

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you've got ideas bonds flaws and traits

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taking up

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20

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of that first page like

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the game is telling you those are big

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deals like look at them

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use them as inspiration use them as

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motivation go on from there

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but then also you've got right at the

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top in the header block along with your

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name and your class and your race and

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lineage you know and experience and

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stuff you've got alignment

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but that also does very little

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so i can't really use that argument of

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like it's on the first page anymore

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because so's alignment and i you know

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i'm inclined to agree after that first

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what do i think this character might be

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in x many sessions time

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i'll plonk down something middling

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because

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that's easy

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and then never potentially ever look at

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it again yeah and there's i think a

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quasi attribute is probably the best

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best way to do it and and the more i

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think about it the more it seems similar

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to

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backgrounds rather than back stories so

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backgrounds in mechanically

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again i've got a couple of my players in

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my campaign recently unfortunately

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two of them are re-rolling new

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characters because they're

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something bad happened to their first

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set of characters and he's he's like

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i've just got to pick my background and

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i'm i've picked this one for now so i'm

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going to try and see how i can i've

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picked soldier and i want to see how i

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can make my guy a soldier and i was like

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don't don't feel like bound by that

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because that basically does so little it

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gives you maybe some weird feature that

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exists in isolation and

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probably might never get used and also

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some proficiencies i'll give you some

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proficiencies if you want some

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proficiencies don't like

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don't don't feel like you need to be a

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soldier for those proficiencies think

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about what you want your character to be

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and then pick something that

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seems similar so i think maybe alignment

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and background like maybe backgrounds

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will go their way of alignment next you

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know soon and just be even less maybe

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even more of this vestigial

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thing that's just knocking around and

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isn't there because

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it for me is as you said like alignment

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is this one thing that you

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are almost forced to put down at the

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beginning of character creation and then

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maybe never look at again

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yeah yeah maybe that maybe you just

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defined like one of the many many

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problems with it which is just placement

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on the character sheet right it's next

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to other things that if i if i have a

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high strength i know that means i can

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lift heavy things in my high decks i can

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dodge fast things or i know lots of

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things with a high intelligence but if

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you have an alignment what what does

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that

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mean what can you do

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there's an implication that you can do

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something because of it and that is just

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completely misplaced

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amongst all the other places so maybe

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maybe just like a first order problem is

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let's get it off the the top of the

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character sheet next to your name

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maybe it's not that that defining

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yeah i think that that that's

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the absolutely true i do think in in

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first edition

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that it was it meant a lot it meant a

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lot there were classes you could not

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take like you couldn't be a monk unless

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you were lawful you couldn't be a druid

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unless you were neutral um i forget to i

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forget that the list a long laundry list

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of things you couldn't couldn't do

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because of your classes but like

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paladin's only lawful good here not even

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just lawful you had to take a dreadnight

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or whatever it was they came up with

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some class later on um to let you be

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evil

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there was a very disambiguous time and

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and if you if you

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you know dnd is based on pop culture

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literature right now and if you look at

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the time that d d came up it was the

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middle of the cold war we had very

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strong definitions of good and evil

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whether they were accurate or not is a

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different story but we had strong

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different internal definitions of them

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and then if you look at the literature

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at the time

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tolkien robert e howard all there was a

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very strong like orcs are bad humans are

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good

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and i think the reason why

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it's so controversial today is because

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well actually there's a provenance to

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how that got controversial right because

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we got old enough to start the question

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like why are they evil like

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orcs have a culture

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are they all evil is that

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there's a great video by matt colville

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on this called um

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everybody loves a zombie or something

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like that

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it's it talks specifically about the

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utility of alignment the first order

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utility of alignment is who can i kill

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and have a good conscience

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that's that's the core of like who are

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the enemies who are the bad guys who can

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i kill because let's face it no matter

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what your alignment the body count for

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any player character is atrocious yeah

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right and everybody you know any uh many

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forms of media many artifacts in that

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media so like films most popular culture

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films action films you know who

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quite unquote the bad guys are you know

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who quote unquote the good guys are it's

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through decades to centuries of tropes

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to be like ah those guys in black suits

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with the sunglasses on that don't have

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names they're the bad guys and like dnd

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is no exception you'll have you almost

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it's almost kind of expected and on the

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one hand yes it's nice to

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have the freedom of expression in deity

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to be like well i'm gonna subvert that

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trope but

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the risk you run if you do that if you

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have these

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men in black

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guys who are you know bald and have no

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names that are just

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goons hired goons and you try and

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subvert that trope and make them be

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quote the good guys you can bet your

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players are going to be seeing them as

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the bad guys anyway or at least a couple

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of your players are because if they've

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been trained that way for

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the last you know adult years of their

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life so um

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i could yeah it at this this is why i'm

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i'm frustrated for the same reason you

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articulate at the beginning that it's

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it's nothing but also everything at the

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same time and i feel scared trying to

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talk about it when in reality like at

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any given table there probably isn't

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much

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sitting on the shoulders of alignment at

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all no nobody cares nobody

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i i tweeted about this a while ago like

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alignment is one of these weird

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there's no utility to the person

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actually playing it it's what you want

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other people to think about either a

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monster or a player it's just a weird a

267
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,000
quick way to sum up

268
00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,760
okay they're this without having to get

269
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,040
into their background right

270
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:18,880
but it doesn't i've never met a player

271
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,560
who was thought something was in

272
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,000
character to do

273
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,680
and didn't do it because it wasn't their

274
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,200
alignment i've heard people say well i'm

275
00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,040
chaotic good so that's why i did this

276
00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,200
but they didn't do it because of that

277
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,360
they did it because it was in character

278
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,040
no no one's ever had like a great in

279
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,320
character motivation

280
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,760
and then not done it because their

281
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,800
alignment said something different they

282
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,680
always do the thing right so um and that

283
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,480
way

284
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:44,720
alignment is like a post facto attribute

285
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,640
as well like you you decide how you're

286
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,399
going to play and then you write the

287
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,360
alignment you don't write the alignment

288
00:09:48,399 --> 00:09:53,360
and then decide how to play so alignment

289
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,200
sort of a summary of all these concepts

290
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,360
you've come up with before

291
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,839
um so i think i mean it also lacks

292
00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,200
utility that way and for monsters it's

293
00:09:59,839 --> 00:10:02,640
just a

294
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,160
game masters have always done with

295
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,120
monsters whatever they wanted to do from

296
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:10,079
the earliest days the zoe's been like uh

297
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,240
ferdinand the bull uh versions of evil

298
00:10:10,079 --> 00:10:14,240
dragons like just want to sniff flowers

299
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,680
and sit on a hill um

300
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,680
and that's the earliest days i can

301
00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:19,360
remember from the earliest is 80 or good

302
00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,959
orcs or whatever

303
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,800
i have a thing about low high and low

304
00:10:20,959 --> 00:10:24,160
cultural i'll put a pin in because i do

305
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,279
want to talk about how i think it went

306
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:29,279
wrong in the 90s and early odds in a

307
00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:31,120
second but but overall

308
00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:33,360
alignment has always been like dms do

309
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,200
whatever they want with their monsters

310
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,680
this is just how they want other people

311
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,000
to understand monsters so i think it's

312
00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,920
also weird in that way it's always been

313
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,560
an attribute for other people and not

314
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,480
for the for the people running it

315
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,560
yeah talking of creatures i know that

316
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,920
there's a push or they're there i can't

317
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,279
remember how solid it is at the moment

318
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,120
but obviously they're gonna in in the

319
00:10:51,279 --> 00:10:55,360
newer books they're gonna change

320
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,839
in the creature stat blocks for

321
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,680
dms instead of just saying lawful good

322
00:10:57,839 --> 00:11:01,120
it will say typically lawful good i

323
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:02,880
think is is what they're pushing towards

324
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:06,320
and to me i thought that was

325
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,839
odd because i've always assumed it like

326
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,240
you know i've inferred that from you

327
00:11:07,839 --> 00:11:12,079
know that the whole game to me is

328
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,279
flexible from the dms point of view

329
00:11:12,079 --> 00:11:14,959
everything is

330
00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:16,399
malleable i can change anything to be

331
00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:17,440
anything i want if i want good dragons

332
00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:19,519
no one's

333
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,680
no one's standing over my shoulder about

334
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:23,440
to you know slap my wrist as i go and

335
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,360
type in this is a good dragon or you

336
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,200
know a good orc or something i can i can

337
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,720
do it because it's my it's my game so

338
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,360
whenever i've seen

339
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,120
hag say evil i've just gone ah but this

340
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,200
one isn't and that's fine and i've never

341
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,399
i never thought too much of it so

342
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,600
to me that's

343
00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:38,959
you know from the creature stat block

344
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,000
it's almost

345
00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:42,480
again

346
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,120
you know not even worth the ink that

347
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,880
it's printed on sometimes yeah i'm torn

348
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,640
on this issue though because i i agree i

349
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,240
think exactly the same way like because

350
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,360
i i think at a

351
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,519
for well i'll caveat in a second but um

352
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:58,079
at a space level my thought is like well

353
00:11:55,519 --> 00:11:59,839
for people who

354
00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:01,600
most people don't need that i think most

355
00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:03,440
people understand the typical part so i

356
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,000
think most people don't and for people

357
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,440
who do need that expressly spelled out i

358
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,240
don't think it matters anyway i think

359
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,480
they're gonna be ignorant ignorance is

360
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,560
a per is a very difficult thing to

361
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,480
overcome so if you're ignorant about it

362
00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:18,079
you're it's going to be typical just

363
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,480
saying typical isn't going to change

364
00:12:18,079 --> 00:12:22,800
those people indeed yeah but then again

365
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,560
my caveat is then i remember well there

366
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,920
are 12 year olds and 10 year olds that

367
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,920
play the game and

368
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,680
that's one of the major challenges of d

369
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:33,040
d right it has to work for people from

370
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:35,519
10 years old to 70 years old and

371
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,639
okay that i when i throw it in that

372
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:38,880
light

373
00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:40,639
i think i get it and and i do think they

374
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,880
want to undo well maybe we should talk

375
00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:45,760
about this now i do i there was a a

376
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:48,959
horrific turn that dnd took in the 90s

377
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:51,440
and early aughts where alignment became

378
00:12:48,959 --> 00:12:52,720
a statement about culture because prior

379
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,560
to that

380
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,639
you know alignment with monsters that

381
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,320
you ran into you opened a door in a

382
00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:00,639
dungeon and there were orcs in there

383
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,519
like evil kill them like that was the

384
00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:05,519
that was the extent of alignment right i

385
00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:07,200
know there was towns and lots of other

386
00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,760
things that happen

387
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,440
but generally that's how it was and one

388
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,120
one thing i want to point out alignment

389
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,839
has been subverted from the earliest

390
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,760
days of d d like if you look at um

391
00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:20,639
sinister secrets assault march that's it

392
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,639
yes um the third module in that whatever

393
00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:25,360
spoilers for a 30 year old 40 year old

394
00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:27,120
module by the way but um the uh in that

395
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,279
is a subverted alignment thing you go

396
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,720
against these lizard folk and you're

397
00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:32,320
supposed to stop them from destroying

398
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,320
the town and you find out the lizard

399
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,839
folk actually aren't evil that it's a

400
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,560
whole other thing going on right and

401
00:13:35,839 --> 00:13:41,440
that so from the earliest days very very

402
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:43,519
earliest days of dnd alignment has been

403
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,519
subverted it was understood that

404
00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:47,440
alignment can be different and um and

405
00:13:45,519 --> 00:13:48,720
and the reason why it got flipped around

406
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,079
was that

407
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,279
as we got into settings like the

408
00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:54,959
forgotten realms or or birthright or

409
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:57,680
dark sun or anything like that you

410
00:13:54,959 --> 00:13:59,360
started develop cultures around these cl

411
00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:01,920
these monsters from the monster manual

412
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,199
and culture became a very strong part

413
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,680
then people started to think well what

414
00:14:03,199 --> 00:14:07,600
do we mean by evil or good cult cultures

415
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:09,440
like an entirely cultural point of view

416
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,399
so they started to map that to what they

417
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,639
knew

418
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:14,560
and they misaligned because they had

419
00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:16,480
there's this concept of high culture and

420
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,399
low culture and that what that actually

421
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,160
is changes by

422
00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:23,040
culture of origin but people began to

423
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:25,839
attach it to what they saw as low

424
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,920
culture and in the orcs uh in case of

425
00:14:25,839 --> 00:14:30,320
works for instance it's often one of the

426
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,399
one of the racial tropes that people uh

427
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,240
say have been associated with orcs is uh

428
00:14:32,399 --> 00:14:36,000
related to african-american culture here

429
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,839
in the u.s and that that's been

430
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,600
absolutely racist and absolutely bad and

431
00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:41,120
i agree 100

432
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,040
but that it and

433
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,800
it tells you a lot about the culture

434
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,279
that they they reached for what does an

435
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,720
evil culture look like they misaligned

436
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:50,800
and they landed on what they thought low

437
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,399
culture was which is i'm not saying it

438
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,000
is low culture i'm saying in their minds

439
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:56,079
that's what happened and then they began

440
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,600
to define it in these ways well how do i

441
00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:59,680
express low culture and they grabbed

442
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,320
parts of their own culture and began to

443
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,959
throw it into the game and that was some

444
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:07,839
low well that was some low blow evil

445
00:15:04,959 --> 00:15:10,399
stuff right that was not great then and

446
00:15:07,839 --> 00:15:12,240
so alignment gave birth this sort of

447
00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:15,360
trying to wrestle with what alignment is

448
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,760
gave birth to this movement of

449
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,160
defining cultures which gave this birth

450
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,079
to this attaching to culture you know

451
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,279
and it just became this cultural

452
00:15:22,079 --> 00:15:27,360
emulation in quite a non-flattering or

453
00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:30,240
even you know ignorantly non-flattering

454
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,959
way and so i think that that that's

455
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,399
where it just alignment took a way a bad

456
00:15:32,959 --> 00:15:35,920
turn in d

457
00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:37,440
um and people are sensitive about that

458
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,279
now i think that's why they're so

459
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,360
sensitive so when we go back to why did

460
00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:43,680
i start saying this right the typically

461
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,759
part i what i think which is the coast

462
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,440
is and i i don't think i think this is

463
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:50,160
born from a good place

464
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:52,240
they're trying to avoid that same uh

465
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,680
that you know that same tropism yeah uh

466
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,199
that sort of generated out of the early

467
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,560
90s or 90s and odds yeah it's it's

468
00:15:57,199 --> 00:16:00,079
obviously it's a shame because i

469
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,639
obviously completely agree that it was

470
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:04,240
that's bad yeah it takes very little

471
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:06,800
critical thinking to be like that

472
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,560
doesn't isn't good

473
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,079
what's happening there but it's a shame

474
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,600
that obviously the

475
00:16:10,079 --> 00:16:13,279
by the sounds of it something that was

476
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,040
very

477
00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:17,120
flat and two-dimensional then took this

478
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,600
kind of weird and awkward turn to the

479
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,199
place we don't want to go and thankfully

480
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,199
driving out of now

481
00:16:21,199 --> 00:16:24,720
i like to think i could be having my own

482
00:16:23,199 --> 00:16:27,040
ignorance here which is quite possible

483
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,680
but i i understand this is where the

484
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:34,399
tide is slowly turning towards

485
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:36,000
a less awkward part of its usage but um

486
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:38,000
it's it's like they've gone backwards

487
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,759
before they've gone we've been able to

488
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,680
go forwards in a way

489
00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:43,120
but in i think you've i've seen you

490
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,800
mention online before in terms of let's

491
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,399
just bring it back to like

492
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,399
mechanical alignment just just for a

493
00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:50,800
second if you

494
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:51,759
hit delete ctrl f find all

495
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,160
delete

496
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:56,079
and just removed any

497
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,160
references to it

498
00:16:56,079 --> 00:17:01,680
is that would that resolve any issues am

499
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,360
i like being way too simplistic here i i

500
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,799
don't i don't think it would i think

501
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,559
that's why it hasn't gone away like it

502
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:07,360
doesn't actually solve the core problem

503
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:08,959
of

504
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:10,559
because there's some utility let's

505
00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:12,319
actually let's not completely there's

506
00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:14,480
some utility in

507
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:16,400
uh in alignment it's minimal but there's

508
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,400
the utility that does for whatever it

509
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,120
exists extent that it exists the utility

510
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,559
is

511
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:25,679
oh i understand this is like a rampaging

512
00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:28,559
arbitrarily violent monster versus this

513
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:31,440
is a uh you know this is a calculating

514
00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:32,960
planning type of monster or or whatever

515
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,480
you know whatever those kind of or it's

516
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,679
just a beast right it's true neutral and

517
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,640
it's just a beast that doesn't have an

518
00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:38,160
alignment

519
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,640
so that's the utility of it and that

520
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,400
that is useful for dm like what

521
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,000
what's the consistency there is a

522
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,919
there's a utility of a consistent

523
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,919
experience in dnd right that everyone's

524
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:50,559
playing the same game i would even say

525
00:17:47,919 --> 00:17:52,720
like one of the big advances in fifth

526
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:54,400
edition is this is the first time we've

527
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,080
ever had these core modules where

528
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,840
everyone is playing

529
00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,400
similar modules right it's like it's

530
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:03,039
like tracking a hobby through tel or

531
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,280
series or of a television show right

532
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:07,039
like this is series one series two

533
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,120
series three rhyming now we're in

534
00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:11,360
rhyming the frost meeting whatever

535
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,880
it's been useful that common experience

536
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:15,120
has been super useful for repo and

537
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,559
alignment has a small bit of utility as

538
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,400
it relates to that

539
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:20,720
it just it just careens out of control

540
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,559
when it comes to world building because

541
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,640
it's not even an inch deep it's it's

542
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:28,720
it's a small veneer

543
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:30,799
of something over over a very deep topic

544
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,039
and if you're if you're unskilled as a

545
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:34,880
dm or you don't know what that means

546
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:36,880
you know you have to really drill down a

547
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,559
lot with your players and and make sure

548
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,520
they don't go off track with it because

549
00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:44,160
i've seen players be like whoa we have

550
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,320
we have gone way off-roading on this

551
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,080
that is not at all what i meant yeah and

552
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,120
we have to call a paw so i've had that a

553
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,600
few times

554
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:53,919
okay okay yeah

555
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,080
i think that so in a discussion we had

556
00:18:53,919 --> 00:18:57,440
on twitter recently around this um

557
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,640
cobalt sages

558
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,919
i'm trying to be good now with the

559
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,679
podcast and actually reference people

560
00:18:59,919 --> 00:19:02,799
i'm talking about

561
00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:04,480
so that's

562
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:05,679
that's it we're like 100 episodes in and

563
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,280
now we're going to do it

564
00:19:05,679 --> 00:19:09,679
starting today um

565
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,760
they they said that it it can still hold

566
00:19:09,679 --> 00:19:13,120
positive informational value which is i

567
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,960
think one reason

568
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:17,760
why we haven't just done a

569
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,880
find all and and delete and it is it you

570
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,360
know

571
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,160
where's the line though i'm perhaps my

572
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,440
own

573
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,559
well not perhaps definitely because of

574
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,200
my own ignorance i'm trying i'm

575
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:29,200
struggling to find the line between

576
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,120
the better implementation of

577
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,640
how can we retain that informational

578
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,320
value

579
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,600
in a way that

580
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,240
is

581
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,440
socially correct and standardized and

582
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,360
effective

583
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,200
maybe that's such a huge and now i've

584
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:45,360
said it out loud i'm like yeah there

585
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,160
isn't don't don't you can't solve that

586
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:47,600
because

587
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,039
many people better than you can't solve

588
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,280
that so

589
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:52,880
yeah in a weird way i'm not i'm sort of

590
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,960
neutral on the topic of deleting it like

591
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,799
i i don't see the utility of deleting it

592
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,799
because it doesn't it does do something

593
00:19:56,799 --> 00:20:01,120
minimal for us it is part of the hop you

594
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:02,880
know it's part of a long chain tradition

595
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,880
and and i don't think it does anything

596
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,559
for us if we delete it i mean it's not

597
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,200
going to mature the conversation

598
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:10,880
it's not going to redefine the monsters

599
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,799
you know it's not going to do anything

600
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,600
concrete except make people feel better

601
00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:15,919
which

602
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,679
i don't want to trivialize you know

603
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:19,120
maybe maybe that does do something i

604
00:20:17,679 --> 00:20:21,120
don't know i

605
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:22,240
i'm an older man so it's harder i don't

606
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,600
feel like it's going to change my

607
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,320
thinking on it i already think it's

608
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,400
worthless um so that's why i it doesn't

609
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,400
matter to me if it's it or not but maybe

610
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,320
maybe it does maybe it's maybe for

611
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,840
people who feel like it's

612
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,039
it targets something that they feel

613
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,720
connected to

614
00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:38,400
uh i don't want to diminish those voices

615
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,200
right if they feel if someone says

616
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,039
listen this makes me feel targeted i

617
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,200
want to take that seriously i want to

618
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:47,679
listen to what they have to say

619
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,280
and i get that um i almost never bring

620
00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:51,120
this up but um

621
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:54,240
they're you know the people talk about

622
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,919
um lgbtq all this other stuff uh i'm

623
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,440
somewhere in that

624
00:20:55,919 --> 00:21:00,880
in that um uh that range i i'm from a

625
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,400
generation that doesn't feel like i need

626
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,120
to explain to people where i where i

627
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,559
fall in that and um so i i've had those

628
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,799
moments where i felt a little like ah

629
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:11,280
this is targeting me you know i felt a

630
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:13,120
little bit like that occasionally um

631
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,480
so yeah i get it

632
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:18,559
yeah i i i did not mean to trivialize

633
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,000
any problem as well but i i i didn't

634
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:21,919
half of this podcast is me just thinking

635
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,840
out loud which if it isn't evident by

636
00:21:21,919 --> 00:21:27,520
this point it very much is

637
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,280
it is now um and yes and half of my

638
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,679
problem-solving process is just rubber

639
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,960
duck programming so just like repeating

640
00:21:31,679 --> 00:21:34,799
the

641
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,080
the problem let me bring up let me toss

642
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:37,679
the topic to you i'd love to ask you a

643
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,880
question do you think

644
00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:42,559
that alignment subverts player like role

645
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,159
playing growth do you think that makes

646
00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:47,440
players static so i i

647
00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:49,120
thank you for asking because i do have a

648
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,960
whole section here on on character

649
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,440
alignment from a from a player's

650
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,799
perspective um

651
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,159
my answer on this would be there's two

652
00:21:54,799 --> 00:22:00,480
ways to approach this with

653
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:02,799
babies first players like i don't know

654
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,400
what a ttrpg is and i'm sitting down and

655
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:06,000
there's this 300 page book i've got a

656
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,320
read through and this is the thing you

657
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,000
dress up right no well maybe if you want

658
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,159
like there's those kind of players and

659
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,159
then there's there's players who have

660
00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:15,760
had a number of characters played in

661
00:22:14,159 --> 00:22:16,559
different games and whatnot and whatnot

662
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,159
so

663
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:20,880
i run a game with both sets of players

664
00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:22,960
in

665
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,880
and i think to to finally get to

666
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,480
answering your question for the for the

667
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,679
new starters like as i said i've got a

668
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,200
guy

669
00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:32,559
he's re-rolling his only second

670
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,720
character 67 sessions in and he got hung

671
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:36,000
up on his background

672
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,360
he's gone through all the way through

673
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,799
character creation he's done all the

674
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:40,640
numbers he's done the standard array

675
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:43,360
he's got a backstory and then he's going

676
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,360
oh now i need to pick a background and

677
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,480
i've said to him don't get too hung up

678
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,640
on it

679
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,320
and i think the same can be said for

680
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,640
alignment you know that you they'll have

681
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,000
a vision players might have a vision of

682
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,720
i want to play a character that does

683
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,200
this or it you know does xyz in abc

684
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,520
situations and then go oh

685
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,200
now i've got to fit them on a 3x3 grid

686
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,280
and is that

687
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,919
what what are the implications of this

688
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,000
and i think that is a slight failing of

689
00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:12,000
the complexity of fifth edition which i

690
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,520
know has been streamlined but

691
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,840
it asks a lot up front a lot of from new

692
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,600
players up front like do you want a long

693
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,280
bow or a short bow

694
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,840
means nothing to me so i'll just pick

695
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,520
one ah well you shooting at disadvantage

696
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,880
more often than you would be otherwise

697
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,520
like oh

698
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,440
screw me i guess uh

699
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,440
in the same way that it can be like

700
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,559
alignment oh well now i'm not locked

701
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,039
into being

702
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:39,039
lawful good but i didn't realize that my

703
00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:41,760
four-party members were going to be

704
00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:44,240
you know chaotic neutral and uh

705
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,919
robin hooding somewhere and i'm stuck

706
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,679
like a stick in the mud which isn't fun

707
00:23:45,919 --> 00:23:48,640
and i never had that vision for my

708
00:23:47,679 --> 00:23:51,919
character

709
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,919
to be the not fun one there because

710
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:55,200
who would

711
00:23:53,919 --> 00:23:56,960
so i think

712
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,039
yes it's the short answer for certainly

713
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,520
for newer players who

714
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:03,279
haven't had the experience of like oh

715
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,880
it doesn't mean very much or hey the

716
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:06,640
four guys i've been playing with don't

717
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,279
care about it so maybe when i roll the

718
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,120
new character i won't care about it

719
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:12,880
no one as you said to repeat what you

720
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,400
said i don't think no one goes out of

721
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,320
their way to say

722
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,720
hang on let me pass this let me pass

723
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,320
this next decision every micro decision

724
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,720
my character's making through this

725
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,880
alignment filter to make sure i'm no one

726
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,279
has the overhead mental capacity to do

727
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,559
that role-playing is hard enough most of

728
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:30,880
the time anyway

729
00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:33,120
let alone another filter in the way so

730
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,080
no most of it is from the gut and this

731
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,480
is you know

732
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:39,120
hopefully this is a legitimate

733
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,320
reaction to the stimulus

734
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,840
so any

735
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,000
any small

736
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,840
piece of grit in that in that role play

737
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,760
wheel that might just be thrown in just

738
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,960
to say but is that lawful good i think

739
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,480
it's not

740
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,000
conducive

741
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,000
because it's just gonna get players to

742
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,440
second guess themselves and the one

743
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,520
thing you don't want

744
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,279
players who as we discussed in our last

745
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,799
episode being vulnerable putting

746
00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:02,159
yourself a piece out there on the table

747
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,840
the last thing you want is for them to

748
00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:05,279
be self-conscious

749
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,480
and then be like oh god what's everyone

750
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:09,360
going to think if i say this thing

751
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:11,039
because i'm not acting lawful good so

752
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:14,320
that is is

753
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:16,640
on one thing is for for newer players

754
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,320
and then as i said for people maybe such

755
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,679
as myself and yourself and other players

756
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,159
i i don't i

757
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:24,159
it's it's a speed bump on the road to

758
00:25:22,159 --> 00:25:24,880
character creation it's something that

759
00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:26,559
you

760
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,480
maybe not even fill in

761
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:29,919
like maybe maybe dnd beyond makes you

762
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,360
fill it in during character creation i'm

763
00:25:29,919 --> 00:25:33,120
not sure off the top of my head but it's

764
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:34,640
if it's got to be filled in you'll fill

765
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,640
it in but then

766
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,039
i can like if you ask me what my my two

767
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,400
main characters are i probably couldn't

768
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:43,120
tell you what their alignments are off

769
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:46,799
the top of my head level

770
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:48,320
class background uh main weapon

771
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:50,240
hit you know hit die

772
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,600
i could tell you i could rattle off easy

773
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,919
peasy

774
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,760
but then alignment knock and

775
00:25:53,919 --> 00:25:57,919
cool cool guys

776
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,450
lawful cool i don't know lawful a bit of

777
00:25:57,919 --> 00:26:01,279
danalow's psyche uh

778
00:25:59,450 --> 00:26:02,799
[Laughter]

779
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:03,679
chaotic petty

780
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:05,679
yeah

781
00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:09,120
so that is my very roundabout way of

782
00:26:05,679 --> 00:26:11,440
saying yes and no

783
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:13,600
yeah yeah i i mean i'm the same mind

784
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,679
it's not clear but i think i think just

785
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,600
thinking about it from that context is

786
00:26:15,679 --> 00:26:19,039
important for dms like what does it do

787
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,799
there's a there's a first order thing it

788
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:21,840
does for me is the dm everything else

789
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:24,400
aside

790
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,559
this is a nice check when people are

791
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,320
creating new characters if i've got five

792
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:30,880
players and four of them are lawful good

793
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,159
and one's chaotic evil we have to have a

794
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,840
talk right

795
00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:35,200
something's off right what does this

796
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,600
mean how are they gonna express things

797
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:41,120
so there's some utility for me to see my

798
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,480
players do that um as a player i find my

799
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,000
own answer is i

800
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,000
sometimes it really does get in the way

801
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,320
of character growth like i what if i

802
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,240
want to play a lawful good paladin

803
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,240
and always like the hero's journey right

804
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,840
that's one of the uh major arcs that

805
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,000
always talks about dnd there's a

806
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,279
disillusionment phase right where the

807
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,679
the structures that they knew their

808
00:26:57,279 --> 00:27:01,679
betrayal phase they feel betrayed by

809
00:26:59,679 --> 00:27:03,520
like when luke finds out that vader was

810
00:27:01,679 --> 00:27:05,679
his dad and he feels betrayed like

811
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,520
there's this moment of self-questioning

812
00:27:05,679 --> 00:27:09,360
that um maybe i'm not lawful good

813
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,200
anymore maybe i'm you know chaotic good

814
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:12,799
or neutral good or maybe law doesn't so

815
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,880
there's there is an implication of

816
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,240
changing alignments that does not exist

817
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,640
in fifth edition

818
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,600
however in early editions in first

819
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,440
edition

820
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,760
uh i'm not saying this was good but it

821
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,840
did change sometimes game masters would

822
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,679
even change somebody's alignment it's

823
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,799
like nope that's an evil thing you are

824
00:27:27,679 --> 00:27:30,559
now

825
00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:32,080
neutral evil or whatever

826
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:34,640
i was never a fan of that but it did

827
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,159
happen and and as a dm and fifth edition

828
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,480
of lots of different players i can see

829
00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:40,880
why because i people

830
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,640
usually call themselves good but players

831
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,760
are usually like chaotic petty like i

832
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:48,559
was joking earlier like they they feel

833
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,720
d is a bit of a power fantasy so they

834
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,960
they carry over like someone who slights

835
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,360
them any small slight becomes a big deal

836
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,520
and notoriously players burn down every

837
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:59,760
town they go to because somebody looked

838
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,520
at them wrong those are not good actions

839
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,360
right

840
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,679
you know so so

841
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:07,520
the the earliest editions have dealt

842
00:28:05,679 --> 00:28:09,120
with that by straight up changing it and

843
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,880
we don't do that now which is odd i

844
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,399
don't think we do that as well now so

845
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,240
was it was that was that literally in

846
00:28:12,399 --> 00:28:16,399
the book for like yeah the dm had the

847
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,919
power to literally you know effectively

848
00:28:16,399 --> 00:28:19,520
go over over their shoulder and rub it

849
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:21,760
out on their sheet and then rewrite

850
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,679
something in i'd have to see i don't

851
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,840
actually know if it was ever said i

852
00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:28,320
think it was like my memory of it is

853
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,080
that it was but i i don't actually know

854
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,080
that that's true that to be fair that

855
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,679
rings a bell with other um people who've

856
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,679
had experience and those

857
00:28:33,679 --> 00:28:37,279
uh editions have said something like if

858
00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:39,039
you acted in a certain way the dm would

859
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:40,720
say okay well now you're this which

860
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:41,600
means which and here's the important

861
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,240
thing

862
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,880
which means that you've lost xyz and

863
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,000
gained abc because back then there was a

864
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,080
lot more

865
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,760
tied in yeah you're not a paladin yeah

866
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,240
yeah right

867
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,080
like you can't if you said that to any

868
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,960
well someone like me any just straight

869
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,240
fifth edition player if like you acted

870
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,320
out you know your character was in their

871
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,679
rage or you know was emotional and they

872
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,279
did something that was not within

873
00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:06,559
alignment to be like oh you're not that

874
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:08,320
class anymore

875
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:10,480
you'd be like what

876
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,240
yeah

877
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,320
for a good reason that would be like

878
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,760
wait a minute because i mean i think

879
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,760
rightfully so there's a great advantage

880
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,000
but now we understand what that really

881
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,120
means which is you need to if it's that

882
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,120
bad

883
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,200
you need to pause the game and talk

884
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,880
right and trying to try to handle

885
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,080
because that's almost always an out of

886
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,720
character thing right so that's pausing

887
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,880
it is of course what we would do now

888
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:38,399
but back then let's face it most of us

889
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,840
are teenagers and uh and and hi

890
00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:41,679
that was that was

891
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,559
you know unfortunately common yeah in

892
00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:47,360
the 80s and um so we weren't you can't

893
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:48,720
expect teenagers to act like adults

894
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,200
can you expect it but you're going to be

895
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,200
disappointed

896
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:57,959
yes yeah

897
00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:57,959
[Music]

898
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,679
[Music]

899
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,360
i think because one of my notes here

900
00:30:05,679 --> 00:30:09,679
funny enough it's very pertinent right

901
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,960
now i think i know your answer but i was

902
00:30:09,679 --> 00:30:13,600
gonna say is

903
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,919
do we think it's the dm's job to

904
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,240
enforce alignment now i

905
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:20,799
well actually i won't leave the witness

906
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,320
yeah i do actually i in force no no i

907
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:25,200
don't think in force i don't think it's

908
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:28,000
the dm's job to enforce anything but i

909
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,440
do think we're guides right like the

910
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,039
and and there's lots of legitimate

911
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,799
reasons for that people do things and

912
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:35,760
it's a blind spot for them or is it

913
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:38,320
blind spot for the dm or so it's a great

914
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,679
it is a great thing and for most games

915
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,919
to sit down and go

916
00:30:39,679 --> 00:30:43,520
after the game or between sessions say

917
00:30:41,919 --> 00:30:45,360
you know this one thing that happened i

918
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,120
i was a little thrown by that i didn't

919
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,279
quite get what was going on there this

920
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,039
is this is what i saw when this happened

921
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:52,880
what we what how did you see it what

922
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:55,679
happened there and it's a great way to

923
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,360
lead into a discussion um enforce

924
00:30:55,679 --> 00:31:00,080
absolutely not i don't think there's any

925
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,679
utility to enforcing rules

926
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,720
you know alignment changes i will say i

927
00:31:01,679 --> 00:31:05,279
think that

928
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,440
that's a cover which is another toxic

929
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:09,919
part about alignment discussions it's a

930
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,200
cover for something else if you feel the

931
00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:15,279
need to have to change a player behavior

932
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,279
you're blaming alignment for probably

933
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:19,919
what is like a playstyle fit probably

934
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:22,960
yes yeah i'd say 90 of the cases this is

935
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:25,039
a playstyle fit problem or just a genre

936
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,720
of the game or something like that so to

937
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:28,559
sit down and talk with them about like

938
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,159
how that fits to the game how it impacts

939
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:31,679
the flow of things how it fits with the

940
00:31:30,159 --> 00:31:33,840
world view

941
00:31:31,679 --> 00:31:35,760
that's a greater that's all within the

942
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,679
purview of the dm

943
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,320
understanding it's a discussion not a

944
00:31:37,679 --> 00:31:42,000
not a declaration indeed yeah yeah so

945
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,480
that that that's the that's what it

946
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,240
really is and so yet of many many things

947
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,519
that the lineman got in the way of

948
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,360
alignment was

949
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:50,960
used as a crutch

950
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,519
for what should have been a more mature

951
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,360
discussion that i think is really

952
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,399
hitting the nail on that on the head

953
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,559
there

954
00:31:56,399 --> 00:31:59,360
i've played in games before where the dm

955
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:00,799
is

956
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,080
you know fifth edition again where the

957
00:32:00,799 --> 00:32:03,440
dm is gone

958
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,679
the player said the character's gonna do

959
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,399
something and the player's gone

960
00:32:05,679 --> 00:32:09,840
but what does what's your alignment say

961
00:32:08,399 --> 00:32:11,600
you know like a parent telling off their

962
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,720
child do you really think that your

963
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,960
character would do that kiss disk like

964
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,799
that's as far as it's ever got which

965
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,159
again is still a bit like

966
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:23,120
i'm not sure where i sit with that is

967
00:32:20,159 --> 00:32:24,960
that either just like the softest way to

968
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,440
to have that touch or is that

969
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,120
overstepping from a dm i'm not

970
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,559
i'm not sure

971
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,399
yeah it's just a crutch you don't want

972
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:33,600
to have a like uh

973
00:32:32,399 --> 00:32:35,440
i don't know a discussion about like

974
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,039
that kind of feels creepy you know some

975
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,760
i've had players do that

976
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:41,360
i won't say what but somebody uh i had a

977
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,200
player you could tell the player was

978
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,960
frustrated not the character you could

979
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,480
tell the player was frustrated as this

980
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,720
npc who wouldn't ask to answer their

981
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,720
questions and they started doing some

982
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,320
some pretty heinous stuff to them

983
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,399
and they were like chaotic good or

984
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,799
something like that and i didn't call an

985
00:32:54,399 --> 00:32:58,799
alignment halt i straight up said

986
00:32:56,799 --> 00:33:01,679
this is kind of wigging me out

987
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:03,120
we need to stop this yeah i mean and and

988
00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:05,120
granted i'm older so i have no problem

989
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,000
speaking my mind but

990
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,760
it just creeped me out bluntly

991
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,679
and that's that's uh

992
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,679
that's a super important discussion hat

993
00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:15,679
to have if someone comes at you with an

994
00:33:13,679 --> 00:33:17,360
evil alignment you probably need to talk

995
00:33:15,679 --> 00:33:19,679
about well what does evil mean to you

996
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,600
yeah yeah after the fact is a difficult

997
00:33:19,679 --> 00:33:22,799
time to have that discussion for sure

998
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,840
and that's thank you for reminding me

999
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:25,039
because that's one what i wanted to

1000
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,559
mention earlier on when you said you

1001
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:28,080
know maybe you've got one new character

1002
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:29,760
who's evil and the rest of the new

1003
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,640
characters are good how does that fit in

1004
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,080
and on paper yeah like absolutely that's

1005
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,600
the trigger for that discussion like you

1006
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,559
said to be let me sit down and find out

1007
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,000
because

1008
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:40,640
you might actually have that chat with

1009
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,880
them and they're not in their head what

1010
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,320
they think is evil it's actually like

1011
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,440
not that bad or you know what i mean

1012
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,880
like

1013
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,120
they just put that because it felt right

1014
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,039
or it made sense or their definition or

1015
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,880
their you know criteria for what makes

1016
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:54,399
something evil is is a lot less so you

1017
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,399
go oh actually that'll be fine that's

1018
00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:58,000
just you're just playing a rogue like

1019
00:33:56,399 --> 00:33:59,120
here

1020
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,080
you'll probably get away with that i

1021
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,440
don't think the rest of the characters

1022
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,120
are going to be that mad but you know

1023
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,559
conversely they could always be like i'm

1024
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,399
going to kill every innocent civilian

1025
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:08,320
and then that's when you would right

1026
00:34:06,399 --> 00:34:09,919
have that discussion yeah they

1027
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,200
that's actually the kill against

1028
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:12,720
innocent people are not innocent they're

1029
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,520
just killing in general

1030
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:17,119
that's a huge like i don't play uh you

1031
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:20,480
have to you have to level set the one

1032
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:22,159
important thing for all dms is to level

1033
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,839
set in the world what's what's kind of

1034
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,839
inbounds out of bounds what's typical

1035
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:28,159
behavior what's atypical behavior that's

1036
00:34:25,839 --> 00:34:30,720
an important like you i that's why i

1037
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:33,520
love to spend the uh like level one to

1038
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:35,119
three that's what i do i establi like

1039
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,639
levels one to three adventures are

1040
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:39,119
establishment adventures what does the

1041
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,960
world think of certain things like

1042
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:43,119
they're afraid of adventures because

1043
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,839
they tend to get like very sensitive

1044
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:47,679
they freak out and kill people um they

1045
00:34:45,839 --> 00:34:49,280
the that but most people in the world

1046
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:50,720
don't kill people that they have a

1047
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,440
disagreement with they might get in a

1048
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:55,119
fight but it just ends with like there

1049
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,720
you've learned something now while

1050
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:58,640
someone you know holding their face or

1051
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:00,079
their eye that people don't generally

1052
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,359
cut each other's throat at the end of

1053
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:03,760
combat

1054
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:05,440
and i try to like establish those things

1055
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,800
like even goblins don't do it because

1056
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,560
they don't care

1057
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,000
like they they just don't care enough to

1058
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:14,160
do it and uh and so i i it's hard to get

1059
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,960
players though who are used to

1060
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,119
go down means they die you know and and

1061
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,960
they i i would love to see a game where

1062
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:22,960
players were much more torn by that like

1063
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,119
they defeated their enemies maybe a good

1064
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,520
character went down the wounds of their

1065
00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:29,280
of the people down on the ground and i i

1066
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,200
they don't know this but i tend to have

1067
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,079
the world respond to that if the players

1068
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,000
are like i use the term drooling slope

1069
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:37,920
four-headed monsters right they're just

1070
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,280
they're just murderous yes if they're

1071
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,440
murderers the world tends to get

1072
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,800
murderous right um although i try early

1073
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,720
to make sure that the world isn't that

1074
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,320
way although i shouldn't do that this is

1075
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,160
one of the things like i subvert myself

1076
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,839
as a dm because that has this linear

1077
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,000
progression that it gets to a point that

1078
00:35:49,839 --> 00:35:54,000
i just lose interest in the game i just

1079
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,400
i'm not interested in these like a

1080
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,839
creepy power fantasy like power

1081
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,599
fantasy's okay everybody has a power of

1082
00:35:57,839 --> 00:36:01,200
fantasy about d and d but it starts to

1083
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:03,200
get creepy after a certain point for me

1084
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,480
and i'm like i just i'm not looking

1085
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,320
forward to this game

1086
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,839
and so i do think that that dm

1087
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,160
establishing what the midpoint of the

1088
00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:12,800
world is super important to give a lot

1089
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,839
of examples of how this works

1090
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,599
and and

1091
00:36:13,839 --> 00:36:17,040
i think my players find this challenging

1092
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:19,119
because they feel like i'm sending them

1093
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:22,160
mixed messages which i i wish i wouldn't

1094
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:24,640
do but i just want to like i to me being

1095
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:27,280
good isn't about being good in a in a

1096
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,359
perfect situation it's about being good

1097
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,720
in a convoluted situation like choosing

1098
00:36:29,359 --> 00:36:32,320
the good path

1099
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,960
you know when there are conflicting

1100
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,599
stories or it's not quite as clear like

1101
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,119
that's that's good to me and so i throw

1102
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:40,400
those opportunities role-playing

1103
00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:42,960
opportunities of players

1104
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,119
but some people just want you know i'm

1105
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,800
good and everybody i meet who's like

1106
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:49,200
downtrodden is good

1107
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,480
and you know that that's not the world i

1108
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,599
run so yeah yeah i was thinking earlier

1109
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,320
on about

1110
00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:58,720
as i said that like the dm

1111
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,079
enforcing or suggesting courses of

1112
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:02,079
actions for players based on their

1113
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:03,680
alignments and

1114
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:05,760
yeah i think as you said like

1115
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,920
you could route a lot of those kind of

1116
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,599
issues with that here's here's this you

1117
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,200
almost need as you said in that in those

1118
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:13,440
levels one two three you need that i

1119
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,880
think it's a really good idea to

1120
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,320
a lot of the focus on levels one two

1121
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,160
three is learning your characters

1122
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,160
learning what a spell slot is learning

1123
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,160
how to level up learning what a role to

1124
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,079
hit is with advantage but i think

1125
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,800
equally maybe even more so important for

1126
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:29,440
longer campaigns is that if you beat up

1127
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,150
this guard the rest of the guards are

1128
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,800
gonna be really annoyed with you

1129
00:37:31,150 --> 00:37:35,520
[Laughter]

1130
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,839
like don't don't hurt the local police

1131
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,880
because they will be very upset with you

1132
00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:41,440
um

1133
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,320
you need to you know kind of set those

1134
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,480
tones out and i think that's where

1135
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,320
i've learned you know in my in my

1136
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,680
campaign that

1137
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,960
expectation setting uh

1138
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,160
which could be you could level that and

1139
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,079
everything somebody like to use it as a

1140
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,839
term but what i mean is like

1141
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:58,800
my players were in a city

1142
00:37:57,839 --> 00:38:00,480
i don't know whether this is a video

1143
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,400
game trope or just a fader in my part

1144
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,720
probably 50 50 to be honest but they

1145
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,359
were they got mugged they got jumped

1146
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:09,040
because they were flashing gold again i

1147
00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:11,680
was like you're in a dive bar and you're

1148
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,440
throwing around like gold which is like

1149
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,359
a lot

1150
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,880
like i want to be your friend yeah i was

1151
00:38:15,359 --> 00:38:20,480
like you're like people are looking at

1152
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,680
you eyeing like dribbling almost you

1153
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,720
know these are the kind of people that

1154
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,320
are spending a copper on 90 water ale

1155
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:27,440
like they're gonna they're gonna want

1156
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,200
that gold

1157
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,680
so when they got jumped

1158
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,880
and they they fought off the muggers to

1159
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,560
the death

1160
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,560
essentially so when the local law

1161
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,000
enforcement turned up all the play

1162
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,359
characters scarpered

1163
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,520
and

1164
00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:43,599
you know i've repeated them in in game

1165
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,800
and out of game i was like

1166
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:49,359
you fled from the scene of a crime bad

1167
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,800
bad booboo number one number two you

1168
00:38:49,359 --> 00:38:52,000
didn't leave them in a particularly

1169
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,359
pretty state

1170
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,040
number three there were a buttload of

1171
00:38:53,359 --> 00:38:56,960
witnesses like you this is the middle of

1172
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,960
the day like you weren't one of you

1173
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,119
turned into like a tiger which is not

1174
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,800
very subtle so

1175
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:05,359
so there's a lot of stuff stacking up

1176
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,560
against you here and it's very easy i

1177
00:39:05,359 --> 00:39:08,640
don't want to rag on my players too much

1178
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,040
because i know when you're in

1179
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,560
the zone at the table it's just ah i

1180
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,920
don't know roll dice and i'm having fun

1181
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,359
and la la

1182
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,480
that's i've done that everybody's done

1183
00:39:15,359 --> 00:39:18,480
that that's yeah they think it's going

1184
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,560
to be something else right in their mind

1185
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,800
it's going to be something else and it

1186
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,359
just turned out oh i i

1187
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,119
i underestimated this situation i'm

1188
00:39:25,359 --> 00:39:29,920
wildly off this is just this is just the

1189
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:31,280
dm giving us some some some goons to

1190
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,359
fight in in an alleyway just we have

1191
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,119
some combat this session i'm like kind

1192
00:39:33,359 --> 00:39:36,800
of yes because we haven't had combat for

1193
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:38,480
a while but also

1194
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,720
you're still in the world i haven't

1195
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,240
taken you out into vr training to have

1196
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,520
this combat just for a bit of fun to

1197
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:44,240
then bring us back in the real world

1198
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,880
like

1199
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,000
it still has to make sense so

1200
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,960
as i said a couple of them are rolling

1201
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,720
new characters now and i think

1202
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,640
after all these sessions and also as

1203
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,160
i've helped i've said like we'll have to

1204
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,440
make these new characters together which

1205
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,040
is something i probably didn't do enough

1206
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,480
of when they first started

1207
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,400
was to be like maybe you want to think

1208
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,160
about what's happened over the last 60

1209
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,240
sessions and maybe you might want to

1210
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,000
tailor your new characters to be

1211
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:09,599
maybe a certain disposition or a certain

1212
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,079
way and respond to situations in a

1213
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:14,319
certain way just because

1214
00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:15,760
frankly it will make your lives easier

1215
00:40:14,319 --> 00:40:18,079
you'll be able to travel in the city

1216
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,160
streets in daytime again as the start of

1217
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:22,160
a tent yeah i have a hard time with that

1218
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,560
though i mean once we've got blown past

1219
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,720
something especially if the

1220
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,319
the core problem is really

1221
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:31,040
a misalignment about the kind of game

1222
00:40:28,319 --> 00:40:33,119
the players want and the dm wants like i

1223
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,599
uh i had one situation where i was

1224
00:40:33,119 --> 00:40:36,800
running uh lost minds of fan delver

1225
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:38,640
and um

1226
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,079
very early in the game the palette they

1227
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,680
their their first fight with some of the

1228
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:43,440
red brand ruffians and they were bullies

1229
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,240
they insulted them but these players

1230
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,440
were

1231
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:49,520
way triggered by an npc saying something

1232
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,920
nasty to their their characters like

1233
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,400
i was a little shocked at how much it

1234
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,839
affected the player oh wow and yeah i

1235
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,599
was like that's creeping me out a little

1236
00:40:55,839 --> 00:40:59,200
bit and it was a new group it was so it

1237
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,800
was a new group to me we didn't know

1238
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,400
each other very well

1239
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,400
but it wasn't extreme what the what the

1240
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,599
npc said it was just like i don't know

1241
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,680
something

1242
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:10,400
uh and so at the end of the fight they

1243
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,400
beat them and the the paladin drags this

1244
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,359
red brand to the because it was in a bar

1245
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:17,200
in the middle of uh fandolin drags the

1246
00:41:15,359 --> 00:41:20,000
the red one of the ruffians who survives

1247
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,800
to the center of town douses him in lamp

1248
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,079
oil

1249
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,480
pulled the torch and he's like i'm gonna

1250
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:26,800
light you on fire and and the the entire

1251
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,880
town is like whoa whoa wait a minute

1252
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,359
wait hold on what's happening like

1253
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,560
everybody's freaking out around him he

1254
00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:34,000
the player

1255
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,960
couldn't understand what was happening

1256
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,960
like why

1257
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,800
i'm being a guy from the movies why like

1258
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,640
he just couldn't understand

1259
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,000
and i was like describing everybody

1260
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,240
freaking out

1261
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,680
and um we even had a talk after well you

1262
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:47,119
know this is not how the world runs

1263
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,920
people don't generally light somebody on

1264
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:52,480
fire in the middle of town square that

1265
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,800
makes people feel very uncomfortable

1266
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,800
and um

1267
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,760
such a nice political like that tends to

1268
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,960
make people uncomfortable yet to say the

1269
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,880
least

1270
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,599
yeah well if i saw that happening out my

1271
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,839
window i'd be very uncomfortable i would

1272
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:09,760
be haunted by that i yeah

1273
00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:10,960
i'm a veteran so there's some i tend to

1274
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,280
think about different violence

1275
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,200
differently so the um

1276
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,280
so anyway we but but that game ended up

1277
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,960
falling apart because the player i gave

1278
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,560
him an out like that's a when these

1279
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,319
things happen you need to give the

1280
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,839
players a way back yeah and that's

1281
00:42:22,319 --> 00:42:26,240
sometimes difficult that they've really

1282
00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:27,440
blown out the the expectations but i

1283
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,880
tried to say okay

1284
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,000
i think people just don't know what to

1285
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,000
make of you but they're a little

1286
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,160
frightened of you right now so you

1287
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,599
probably need to spend some time earning

1288
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,920
some good will with them and it'll

1289
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:40,319
probably be fine um and they're like oh

1290
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,079
yeah yeah okay but when it

1291
00:42:40,319 --> 00:42:43,920
they were of the play style where they

1292
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:45,119
like went and did one nice thing for

1293
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,560
somebody

1294
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:48,800
and and they were upset that it didn't

1295
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,160
like magically transform the entire town

1296
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,359
why haven't you given me all your life

1297
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:55,520
savings i killed that rat for you here

1298
00:42:53,359 --> 00:42:58,480
i mean it's not even on that one that

1299
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,480
happens a lot in d d and i um you know

1300
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,079
sometimes i try to give pride provide

1301
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,839
examples to players of how this is not

1302
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,599
working out for the hopefully that

1303
00:43:03,839 --> 00:43:07,839
they'll get they'll get what i'm trying

1304
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:10,880
to lay down and a whole different dragon

1305
00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:12,640
of spire peak so still in fandolin

1306
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,560
the player characters end up guilting

1307
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,920
the entire town until like well you

1308
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,319
should provide me with some fighters to

1309
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,000
fight this dragon because i you know

1310
00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:21,440
we're we're here fighting for you and

1311
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,400
you're doing nothing and they're like

1312
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,760
okay

1313
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,440
we'll send some of our you know

1314
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,319
able-bodied people along with you and

1315
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,280
they several through several successive

1316
00:43:28,319 --> 00:43:31,280
fights

1317
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,760
ended up every able-bodied person in

1318
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,160
finland gets killed

1319
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,000
never registered with the players never

1320
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,839
and i as i go and this is where i'm

1321
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,280
getting into like i'm sort of losing

1322
00:43:39,839 --> 00:43:42,880
interest here

1323
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,560
i played that campaign now but by the

1324
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,359
time i was done i was just like i'm

1325
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:49,040
sorry for this game to be over yeah yeah

1326
00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:50,560
it's it's that i love how we're talking

1327
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,920
about alignment and a we've talked about

1328
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,040
misalignment you dropped misalignment

1329
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,280
earlier on though so i wonder if he's

1330
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,280
picked up on how he's definitely brought

1331
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,960
in the uh the topic

1332
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,319
in that sentence um

1333
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,119
between

1334
00:44:00,319 --> 00:44:04,720
players and dms and also that that

1335
00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:06,800
struggle between

1336
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:08,319
like i've read it and said it myself 100

1337
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,680
times like the player characters the

1338
00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:11,200
main characters they are the

1339
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,640
quote-unquote heroes or whatever term

1340
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,319
you want to use of

1341
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,560
the game right the world

1342
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:18,560
doesn't revolve around them but

1343
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,319
that's where the camera is on every week

1344
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,480
right so

1345
00:44:20,319 --> 00:44:23,119
so like they they are the focus but then

1346
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,520
in

1347
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:27,760
on the other side of the same coin

1348
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,599
if you hurt the town's guard you're

1349
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,119
going to get a reputation as somebody

1350
00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:35,119
who hurts the people that are trying to

1351
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:37,920
protect 90 of the population like it's

1352
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:39,440
that that struggle there between no we

1353
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,240
should you know people are the movie

1354
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,359
stars essentially sometimes but also

1355
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,359
they have

1356
00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:47,200
to have expectations about what's going

1357
00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:49,440
to happen if they act in a certain way

1358
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,480
uh based on the the context and that

1359
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,240
that is

1360
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,960
that is where the nuances and that is

1361
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:55,760
where the misalignment cracks form and

1362
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,200
then

1363
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,720
widen open into pitfalls that where

1364
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,920
people fall in and go i'm not looking

1365
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:04,400
forward to this game anymore because i

1366
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,680
found myself down this alignment

1367
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,760
misalignment

1368
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,280
crevice that

1369
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,079
got two people climbing up two different

1370
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,680
sides yep and something that drastically

1371
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:16,240
different in fifth edition versus

1372
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,240
earlier editions is the official modules

1373
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:20,560
and really even the player dm's guild

1374
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:22,560
modules they assume a point of view on

1375
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,640
who the players are like especially the

1376
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,800
official modules assume

1377
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:29,200
you're here to be heroes there's just

1378
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,200
some of them are unabashedly that way

1379
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,920
like a rhyming the frost maiden just

1380
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,079
assumes you're here to be a hero

1381
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,520
so that creates this huge problem if the

1382
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:39,680
player doesn't want to and in earlier

1383
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,760
editions it wasn't assumed that it was

1384
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,800
there was space for evil characters in

1385
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,240
the world

1386
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,760
i never really enjoyed that kind of play

1387
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:47,280
but there was there's space for evil

1388
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,119
characters in the world or greed

1389
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,880
motivations or whatever

1390
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:54,240
so that creates a that creates a huge

1391
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:56,480
problem in in modern sort of d

1392
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:58,240
if alignments are

1393
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,319
assumed to be good or assumed to be

1394
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,920
heroic that creates two problems one it

1395
00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:04,160
may not align with players what they

1396
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,400
want to do but two

1397
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,640
this is and this is a modern phenomenon

1398
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,920
it creates a sense that anything the

1399
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,680
players do is automatically heroic

1400
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,079
because they're the heroes

1401
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,920
and that's that when you if you if you

1402
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:19,440
follow that line of logic that gets

1403
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,520
creeped like i had to kill this village

1404
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,880
it's like a very anakin skywalker you

1405
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,359
know i had to kill the sand people

1406
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,760
because they're evil moment like oh so

1407
00:46:25,359 --> 00:46:29,200
darth vader is the hero here

1408
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,040
topsy-turvy world that we found

1409
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,079
ourselves in yeah

1410
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,000
yeah so

1411
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:35,359
i you know i

1412
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,920
yeah i don't know how to think about

1413
00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:39,200
that i think that that that

1414
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,119
actually to me

1415
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,880
that assumption that players are always

1416
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:44,000
heroic and the dms have to make it

1417
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,400
heroic

1418
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,319
i think that's actually creepier to me

1419
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,079
in a small way and that's not a big deal

1420
00:46:48,319 --> 00:46:52,480
for me but in a small way that's

1421
00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:54,400
creepier to me now than early

1422
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,560
concepts of alignment where it was much

1423
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,240
more loosely defined right that this

1424
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,560
desperate need for players to always be

1425
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:02,319
seen heroic as heroic rather than

1426
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,000
earning it rather than you should earn

1427
00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:05,920
your heroism

1428
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,920
that that seems a little creepy to me in

1429
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,760
in sort of modern expressions of dnd

1430
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,960
yeah now i'm i can see how it happens

1431
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,880
though because i

1432
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,240
despite all my stuff being homebrew i

1433
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,119
very much

1434
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,720
had

1435
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:18,800
inadvertently like at the back of my

1436
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:20,480
mind assumed the player you know the

1437
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,000
player characters would be heroic

1438
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,240
because everything i planned before we

1439
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,559
started playing was based on that

1440
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:28,800
assumption and so i've had to

1441
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:30,640
change the way i do my planning

1442
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,000
based on well actually they might take

1443
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:35,599
it in this direction what happens if

1444
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:37,280
they take it in that direction because

1445
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:38,800
you know of that presump it was a

1446
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,200
presumption essentially that was that

1447
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:44,000
was wrong um and that's fine

1448
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:46,240
of course uh as long as everybody is

1449
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,920
to repeat ourselves you know aligned and

1450
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,680
on board and comfortable and happy and

1451
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,040
all the other kind of stuff and yeah one

1452
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,640
thing i wanted to add earlier on i

1453
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,760
forgot to bring in

1454
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,359
what we're talking about you know maybe

1455
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,040
you've got a mixed party and you've got

1456
00:47:55,359 --> 00:47:59,280
four good guys and one bad guy i hate

1457
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:01,359
again i don't wanna what's the word to

1458
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,880
trivialize or to distill it down to good

1459
00:48:01,359 --> 00:48:04,720
good guys and bad guys but for the sake

1460
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,880
of argument let's assume give me the

1461
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:08,800
benefit of the doubt and

1462
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,319
one major reason is not because that bad

1463
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,880
guy's going to piss you know everybody

1464
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:14,880
off but also because that player

1465
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,200
might not that they're not going to have

1466
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,400
fun and it's the job well the job of

1467
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,319
everybody at the table to make sure

1468
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,599
everybody's having fun obviously the dm

1469
00:48:20,319 --> 00:48:22,880
knows that

1470
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:24,160
a bit more than everybody else so

1471
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,480
they're in a bit more of a position of

1472
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,319
power to be able to help that right so

1473
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,480
it's it's that that's super important to

1474
00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:32,079
me so most of my feedback to my players

1475
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,119
when they're thinking of i want to be

1476
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:36,720
like this or this is my background or

1477
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:39,280
you know he's one of my other characters

1478
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:42,079
built in a rogue assassin subclass he's

1479
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,920
from a you know clandestine organization

1480
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:45,920
of hitmen essentially and i was like

1481
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,720
that's fine and that's super cool

1482
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,480
but

1483
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,720
just so you're aware that

1484
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,240
your job is to kill people and you might

1485
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:54,960
be traveling with others that might not

1486
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:57,200
look kindly on that so

1487
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,400
you know you you as a player might not

1488
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,920
have fun

1489
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,319
as much fun as you might be thinking you

1490
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:04,720
will do you will be i'm a cool hitman

1491
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:06,800
assassin yeah great but the game isn't

1492
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:10,000
hitman so like

1493
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,599
there's that's right nameless npcs yeah

1494
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,160
yeah yeah yeah sure being hitman

1495
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:16,160
assassin is great in the game hitman

1496
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,319
but not in in this world that we we

1497
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,079
happen to be building together so it's

1498
00:49:18,319 --> 00:49:21,839
that is number one priority for me so

1499
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:23,359
though sometimes it feels like i can

1500
00:49:21,839 --> 00:49:25,119
come off and being like are you sure you

1501
00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:26,400
want to be an evil character

1502
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:27,599
but it's because the next part of that

1503
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,880
sentence is

1504
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:30,880
because i want you to have as much fun

1505
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,400
as possible and you might not have that

1506
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,800
based on

1507
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,800
the context you're about to go into yeah

1508
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,599
yeah there's a i this is not a great

1509
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:41,280
trait for me as a dm because i

1510
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:42,079
cause that dm's have to have fun too

1511
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,319
right

1512
00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:47,200
and part of the fun for me is like okay

1513
00:49:44,319 --> 00:49:48,960
how far does this go right there's a

1514
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,040
there's a i love testing boundaries with

1515
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,720
players to see what they're like how far

1516
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,800
does your character take good or how far

1517
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:56,400
they take evil so when someone comes out

1518
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,960
i'm an evil assassin i've run into like

1519
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,280
progressively like the businessman the

1520
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:04,160
merchant who just seems to be in the way

1521
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,599
the family man and it gets to be like

1522
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,680
there's a point past which where i'm

1523
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:09,119
like nah i'm not interested now

1524
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,960
for the play and the player goes there

1525
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:13,200
it's weird and maybe i've muddied the

1526
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,640
waters too much um

1527
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,680
yeah so maybe that's not a great trait

1528
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:20,319
for me as a dm but i just i like tested

1529
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,480
like okay what does this mean to you as

1530
00:50:20,319 --> 00:50:23,760
a character yeah what does it mean to be

1531
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,079
good like what are you willing to

1532
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:28,160
sacrifice what are you willing to put

1533
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:29,760
aside to do this what are you willing to

1534
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,839
ignore what are you willing to not

1535
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:34,480
ignore those that's that's the core of

1536
00:50:31,839 --> 00:50:37,040
what's interesting to me as a dm

1537
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:39,040
so for players who just want

1538
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,680
uh set piece after set piece after set

1539
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:44,400
piece that's sometimes not

1540
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:47,200
so terribly fun for them but uh yeah

1541
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:49,760
that's where i am at the dm no no i like

1542
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,760
that i'm i'm the same i my my point is

1543
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,559
if people are gonna put

1544
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,960
you know

1545
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:57,119
are gonna be so bold as to put a strong

1546
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,839
stance on there i am a look you know i

1547
00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:01,760
am this lawful good and my righteous

1548
00:50:59,839 --> 00:51:04,319
justice to those who have

1549
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,920
you know broken the law then i very much

1550
00:51:04,319 --> 00:51:07,680
like to be like all right put your money

1551
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:10,160
where your mouth is then and we're gonna

1552
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,680
define together what it means to break

1553
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,200
the law what if it's you know and you

1554
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,200
build all the way up to like the aladdin

1555
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,119
street urchin who's who's just swiped

1556
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,520
banana off the stand just to feed

1557
00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:22,800
himself for the day are you gonna

1558
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:25,200
77 smite him out of existence like

1559
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,280
is that is it weird

1560
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,640
boom right is that that's that is you

1561
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,400
know

1562
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,200
having those interesting discussions is

1563
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,800
what builds character both you know i

1564
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,599
think of the player and the characters

1565
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,880
and i

1566
00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:38,800
have

1567
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,880
done similar things to my players to be

1568
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,559
like okay you've had your bits where

1569
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:46,079
you've ran away and

1570
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:48,000
murdered street criminals okay fine let

1571
00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:49,760
me try and think of

1572
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,160
moral quandary situations that will get

1573
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,000
you to kind of contemplate where you

1574
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,240
really sit on the grand scheme of things

1575
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,480
so we you know should we do that but

1576
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:59,920
then are we not any better than those

1577
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,040
people or should we not do this and

1578
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:05,040
maybe try and start to think about the

1579
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,640
you know the consequences of our actions

1580
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,000
i think that those are

1581
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,400
again to me interesting to to think

1582
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,480
about and to make up and so i can laugh

1583
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,920
machiavellianly uh while i'm planning

1584
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,280
and think ah they're gonna have so much

1585
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,119
difficulty with the

1586
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,400
you know internal conflict is the heart

1587
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:20,160
of narrative right

1588
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,000
action is a great

1589
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,160
excitement piece but the heart of

1590
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,359
narrative is internal conflict right so

1591
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:29,040
that that's and i i i even love

1592
00:52:27,359 --> 00:52:30,559
throwing in a like one of my favorite

1593
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,079
internal conflicts in a recent game i

1594
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:34,640
ran i ran a dragon a vice pirate pete

1595
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:36,319
game and uh in that the white dragon is

1596
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,400
one of the big i kind of combined lost

1597
00:52:36,319 --> 00:52:40,559
minds of fendelver and this with into

1598
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,640
one module so there's a green dragon

1599
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:44,480
north of uh vandalin

1600
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,480
and the players go to try to negotiate

1601
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,240
with it to see if it'll help it will

1602
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,079
help take down the white dragon but

1603
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:52,160
green dragon's very manipulative yeah so

1604
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:54,720
it entertains them for a while and it

1605
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:57,119
flat out says no but it it hatches a

1606
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:59,119
plot that it knows the players are going

1607
00:52:57,119 --> 00:53:00,880
to go after this white dragon so it's

1608
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:02,880
gonna wait until the fight happens and

1609
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,880
come in the lair in the middle of it and

1610
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,319
kill them all that's what that's the

1611
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,599
green and that's a very green dragon

1612
00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:10,079
thing to do when they're all wounded

1613
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:12,240
right so um middle of the fight with the

1614
00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:14,640
um with the white dragon

1615
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:16,960
the green dragon lands in the entrance

1616
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:20,000
and he screams like um cry of aid i'm

1617
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,079
here for you and it and the white dragon

1618
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,079
turns to the players and said help me

1619
00:53:22,079 --> 00:53:26,000
kill this dream dragon i'll let you each

1620
00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:27,200
take one piece of my horde and i will

1621
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,280
leave

1622
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,119
and uh and like so then they have to lie

1623
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,520
with a with a

1624
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:36,400
dragon and it was a boss fight it was

1625
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:38,319
amazing that fight was amazing

1626
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,160
and um some players tried to betray the

1627
00:53:38,319 --> 00:53:41,440
dragons and it was really cool but that

1628
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,960
type of

1629
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,520
you wouldn't get that type of moral

1630
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,040
quandary out of traditional alignment

1631
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,119
roles and that's not what they're

1632
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,880
designed to do no

1633
00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:52,480
that's really good and i'm immediately

1634
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,040
thinking like how can i do something

1635
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:58,800
similar how can i steal that

1636
00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:00,559
amazing you should idea it use it use it

1637
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,880
i do have a green dragon knocking around

1638
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:05,119
actually who has got a very a number of

1639
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,240
spinning plates uh you know a number of

1640
00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:08,720
uh

1641
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:10,800
machinations already in the pipeline so

1642
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,079
that's not wouldn't be uh completely out

1643
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,200
of the blue for something like that to

1644
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:15,520
happen

1645
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,119
yeah yeah i liked it worked out

1646
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,720
it was a it was a straight thought of

1647
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:19,760
mine at the time and when i didn't

1648
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:21,839
realize

1649
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:25,839
how good it would work out so it ended

1650
00:54:21,839 --> 00:54:27,440
up being fantastic for me awesome um

1651
00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:29,599
is there anything else that you want

1652
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,200
well yeah i mean we could talk about

1653
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:32,640
this all day because broadly the

1654
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,800
discussion is you know

1655
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,119
philosophy and morals and what makes a

1656
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,839
good person good which again i'm

1657
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:41,680
woefully underqualified to comment on um

1658
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:43,760
but is it is there anything you wanted

1659
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,720
to talk about that we might have not got

1660
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,200
there yet

1661
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:49,119
no just this is a hot button topic in

1662
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,680
the community alignment is a super and i

1663
00:54:49,119 --> 00:54:54,240
understand why yeah yeah and uh

1664
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,680
i i i like a lot of people or because

1665
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:57,359
there's so much discussion online and

1666
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,960
we've gone online primarily because of

1667
00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:00,559
the pandemic

1668
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,319
sometimes i think it worries me

1669
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:05,200
sometimes the bitterness of that

1670
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:07,680
conversation so just in terms of a plea

1671
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,440
to the community um i would ask

1672
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,359
everybody to treat each other gently

1673
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,960
around this and any topic

1674
00:55:11,359 --> 00:55:14,480
and that they would uh you know

1675
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,240
hopefully explore it a little bit to

1676
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,000
understand what people mean by it rather

1677
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:19,599
than be um

1678
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,200
if they are if they are it doesn't apply

1679
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:22,720
to everybody but if they are reactionary

1680
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,720
about it i would just encourage

1681
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:26,000
everybody to be gentle with one another

1682
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:28,640
and to to

1683
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:31,440
have an open discussion not just to be

1684
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:34,000
accepting which is itself worthwhile but

1685
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,440
to evolve community thinking about what

1686
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,480
do we want out of this if it's not

1687
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,319
alignment

1688
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,400
let's figure out what's what does it

1689
00:55:38,319 --> 00:55:42,640
look like to do it well

1690
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,319
rather than just sort of be concerned

1691
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,400
about what we think someone else might

1692
00:55:44,319 --> 00:55:48,000
be thinking about the topic based on a

1693
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,839
few words or a tweet or something like

1694
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,200
that i would just i'd urge us all to be

1695
00:55:49,839 --> 00:55:52,799
a little bit gentle with one another so

1696
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,640
that's my my one topic it's

1697
00:55:52,799 --> 00:55:55,760
controversial i would hope that we can

1698
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,920
be a little bit

1699
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:01,119
mature about our discussion about it and

1700
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:02,640
and generative rather than degenerative

1701
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:04,240
around the discussion of what do we want

1702
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,480
this to be and rather than what do we

1703
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,839
want it not to be

1704
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,200
yep i was thinking while you were

1705
00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:10,400
talking if there's anything i can add

1706
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,599
but no

1707
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,680
that that is

1708
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:15,920
a perfect place to uh

1709
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,359
to stop there i mean the only thing i'll

1710
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,440
say is i

1711
00:56:17,359 --> 00:56:21,520
i i do tend to pride myself in giving

1712
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,760
others the benefit of the doubt until

1713
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,880
repeatedly proven otherwise because even

1714
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,160
if somebody

1715
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,839
mugs you off once they might just be

1716
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,000
having a bad day and so until it's a

1717
00:56:27,839 --> 00:56:31,359
repeated set of you know this guy's

1718
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,839
consistently

1719
00:56:31,359 --> 00:56:35,839
a bad person then there's my line in the

1720
00:56:33,839 --> 00:56:37,680
sand but until that point

1721
00:56:35,839 --> 00:56:39,280
i just just believe people are you know

1722
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,559
speaking from there you know off the

1723
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,559
cuff of you know from the end of their

1724
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:44,480
sleeve and sure it's not the end of the

1725
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:46,480
world if they

1726
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,319
you know say something because it

1727
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,200
probably doesn't mean what you think it

1728
00:56:48,319 --> 00:56:51,520
means

1729
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:53,359
it probably means something that they

1730
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:56,079
couldn't communicate properly because of

1731
00:56:53,359 --> 00:56:58,640
xyz or abc so that's just

1732
00:56:56,079 --> 00:57:00,559
life as as often the way these podcasts

1733
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:03,200
go we end up talking about the human

1734
00:57:00,559 --> 00:57:05,200
nature which yeah it's poetic in a way

1735
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:08,000
here

1736
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:10,880
well uh yeah well thank you ever so much

1737
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,559
for for this discussion today it's been

1738
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,839
fantastic it felt like we talked to both

1739
00:57:12,559 --> 00:57:16,079
of us like a mile a minute which is

1740
00:57:13,839 --> 00:57:18,559
great because it's it's you know

1741
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:20,720
the enthusiasm is is infectious and uh

1742
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:22,400
it's as you said it's a it's really nice

1743
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,920
and refreshing to have a topic a

1744
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:27,200
discussion around that she said uh such

1745
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,240
a hot button topic is alignment and it

1746
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,440
to be it

1747
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,880
face value isn't the right term but you

1748
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,880
know what i mean like

1749
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,319
constructive as you said so you know

1750
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,680
thank you thank you very much scott

1751
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:37,359
thank you for having me it's been great

1752
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,799
as always i really really appreciate it

1753
00:57:37,359 --> 00:57:40,720
love following you on twitter love your

1754
00:57:38,799 --> 00:57:43,200
podcast so thank you thank you so much

1755
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,640
uh is anything you would like to promote

1756
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,559
i'm really simple i'm not selling

1757
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,400
anything i'd just like to foster a good

1758
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:50,079
d d discussion or any table top role

1759
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,160
playing game so give me a follow on

1760
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:54,000
twitter at optional rule no spaces just

1761
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,640
optional rule and you can find my blog

1762
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,559
post on mostly d d but sometimes generic

1763
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:01,520
issues related to tabletop role-playing

1764
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:03,680
games at optionalrule.com

1765
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,119
i must admit i have read a number of

1766
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,520
your blog articles and it's something

1767
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:09,040
that i've considered doing so you can

1768
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,079
take the gold medal for being my

1769
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,160
inspiration because i've thought

1770
00:58:10,079 --> 00:58:13,040
recently like i really should do one

1771
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,920
because

1772
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:18,240
they are it's a good vehicle for

1773
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:21,119
having these longer form discussions

1774
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:23,200
that don't fit into 140 characters or

1775
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:23,720
whatever it is that twitter operates at

1776
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,520
nowadays

1777
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,640
[Laughter]

1778
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,400
thank you

1779
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,520
uh yep so as usual thank you everyone

1780
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,960
for listening at home all the scott

1781
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,720
stuff will be

1782
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,319
in the episode description as normal i

1783
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,839
would also encourage you to go and

1784
00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:37,440
listen to our episode of an agency way

1785
00:58:35,839 --> 00:58:40,160
back in season one if you haven't done

1786
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:42,160
so already again a fantastic and

1787
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,680
insightful discussion

1788
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,599
about weedly like a number of similar

1789
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,760
things but in a very different

1790
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:49,440
context you know like

1791
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,640
taking character agency away because of

1792
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,000
what they're doing is very similar to

1793
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,200
which about you know enforcing alignment

1794
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,040
and all that kind of stuff so very

1795
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,720
another very very very interesting and

1796
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,960
good discussion

1797
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:01,599
otherwise thank you all for listening

1798
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:03,200
and good night

1799
00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:04,400
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1800
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:07,200
outs

1801
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:09,680
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1802
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:12,160
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1803
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:14,640
out there making hilarious and

1804
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:16,440
educational dungeons and dragons content

1805
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,160
please go and check out his stuff at

1806
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:20,559
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1807
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:22,160
links to all of his socials and all of

1808
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:23,839
his content including his own patreon

1809
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,599
which i would very much encourage you to

1810
00:59:23,839 --> 00:59:28,480
check out

1811
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:30,559
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1812
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,079
on twitter for supporting the show if

1813
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:34,680
you need support running your personal

1814
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:36,880
or business schedule head to

1815
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,640
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1816
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,720
make that difference between should do

1817
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,559
and done boss it better with support

1818
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,880
from cat who will help you get back that

1819
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:46,319
essential time you've been searching for

1820
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,240
if you would like to support what we do

1821
00:59:46,319 --> 00:59:50,960
and get four shout outs a month head

1822
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,480
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1823
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,440
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1824
00:59:52,480 --> 01:00:03,450
kofi.com thinking critically

1825
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:23,680
[Music]

Scott (Optional Rule) Profile Photo

Scott (Optional Rule)

Content Creator

Scott is a veteran table top gamer who publishes RPG content of all kinds under Optional Rule Games. He focuses on building flexible content that enables actual play in a fun and exciting way for players and Game Masters alike.

A TTRPG fan for over 40 years, Scott has play-tested or published under a variety of titles including Rolemaster, Harnmaster, and many others including a few official D&D modules. Additionally, he’s created and published fan mods for a number of video games, including Neverwinter Nights.

In addition to his time as a Game Master, he publishes TTRPG content at optionalrule.com, produces a weekly twitch livestream discussing game theory and design, and is very active on Twitter. You can find him across most platforms as @OptionalRule.

All of his content is focused on games at play. Acknowledging the messy nature of running real games and fostering an honest dialog about how to make them better.

As his motto says, “always remember, fun… isn’t optional.”