March 11, 2022

Storytelling


Minor Spider-Man: No Way Home spoilers in this episode!

I'm joined by Sam Bradley from Starter Set Studios to talk all how to tell, or be told, a good story. We dissect a couple of common storytelling tools such as 'show, don't tell', and how these translate to running a TTRPG. The implementation of these tools varies system to system, table to table, and requires additional overhead on the GM. I put Sam on spot by asking him exactly who's responsible, and how much so, for creating a good story. Our discussion could be considered a hot take! And once more we discuss the "knowledge divide" between GM and players and how, if you're not careful, this can negatively impact the experience.

  • 03:36 - The Art of Leading
  • 09:39 - Who's Responsible for the Story?
  • 21:10 - Storytelling versus Worldbuilding
  • 30:09 - Communicating Through Filters
  • 37:05 - Serving the Story
  • 44:32 - How Players Can Help
  • 52:39 - Railroading Successfully

Find Sam on:

Find Thinking Critically on:

Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 20

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of thinking critically today's topic is

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storytelling

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by writer and

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podcaster sam bradley from the starter

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set studios thank you ever so much for

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joining us today sam can you tell us a

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little bit about yourself

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hello thank you very much for having me

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um

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yeah

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starter set studios

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used to be one podcast about dungeons

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and dragons where my incredibly

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knowledgeable friend ed sylvester hello

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ed

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um the sort of gimmick was

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i really wanted to learn about how to

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play dungeons and dragons and was quite

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in the world of fantasy and sci-fi and

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all the stuff you're supposed to be into

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to be into dungeons and dragons but i

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didn't know how to play and

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i got a new job

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and it was a really shitty job and the

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only benefit was ed sat behind me and

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one day i said oh i'd love to play

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dungeons and dragons and he got me he

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put his meat hook in me

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three or four years ago so that became

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the podcast and then that as i

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was learning to play the game i was also

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writing a campaign that became a

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campaign a homebrew campaign and then

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the series which we'll talk about later

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i think um tells a tarfage tarfage being

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the city that my homebrew campaign takes

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place in

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and

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that kind of grew as well into sort of a

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separate show that ran alongside

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starter set the show hence starter set

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studios and now

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start set the guide original podcast has

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ended a couple of months ago

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and we're starting a new project let's

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get schwarmer which is all about the

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impending marvel multiverse tabletop rpg

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which will be a guide show similar to

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start set and also a let's play that i

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think i'm going to end up gm'ing which

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is exciting um

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and yes so that's that's what i do i

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think aside from that i i am one of

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those forever dms that

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really likes to play but will not admit

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how much he likes the power of home

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brewing and and dming a homebrew

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campaign

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um but i'm someone that got into it very

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quickly very very quickly and very hard

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like i've only really been playing d

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for the last

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literally i think the first time i

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played was the week after we recorded

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the first three episodes of start set so

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two years three years something like

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that so yeah i'm

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i'm knowledgeable in

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in bits of it and then totally ignorant

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in other bits of it which i think

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everyone is if they're on this for

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themselves yeah yeah no i'm like

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obsessive as well and went

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hard and fast when i was when that when

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the floodgates opened and i had the phb

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that was that was game over for the rest

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of my hobbies

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there was a i used to have a podcast

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before starter set

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um that it doesn't run now and that's

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kind of how me and ed got to know that

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we had a bit of a thing on the mic and

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there was a moment i listened to it back

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actually because we put it out to our

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patrons a few months ago

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where

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he's explaining how the role play games

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work and i go oh so you could do

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anything and he goes yeah and i'm not in

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it for the rest of that conversation i'm

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like oh no this is this hobby's going to

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take over my [ __ ] life

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and it did

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i'm also feeling very attacked at your

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uh the thought there of um the pleasure

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you get from making a hungry world and

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leading players through it i think that

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is what keeps me coming back i have to

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say well yeah it's the art of leading

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isn't it

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that's the thing isn't it that's that's

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the thing that separates

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uh storytelling in a conventional level

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to

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storytelling in dungeons and dragons i

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think there's a difference and i think

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that

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as we'll get into i think further down

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the line in this podcast i think there

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is

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an art to both and there is crossover

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but there's also like crossover of being

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good and [ __ ] at both of them

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independently yeah well that

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i've thought of a question completely

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off the top of my head uh what what

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we're talking about storytelling what

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does that what does that mean to you

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what does what's storytelling mean to

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you in the dnd and why the ttrpg

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framework

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in

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i can talk only to dnd because it's the

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only ttp rpg that i've played uh so far

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specifically fifth edition because i'm

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that new in

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i think storytelling

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is

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hmm

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in d d the storytelling is

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a d d story is a puzzle

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in which pieces are kind of assembled

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outside traditional linear structure

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and i think if if you're looking for a

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definition of what is storytelling in d

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d

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that is it

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especially

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if you're talking

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homebrew

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because you are master of everything i

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think when you play books again massive

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holes in my knowledge i've never run a

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campaign from a book i don't know why

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you'd want to

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that's not me having a pop-up people who

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play next i get it if you don't have

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time to go hmm i'm going to invent a new

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sport you know or you're not insane

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enough to go what is the economic strife

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of tarthish like you know at three in

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the morning on a thursday yeah i get it

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i think

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speaking from someone who's only ever

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dm'd homebrew

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storytelling is the way that you give

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them puzzle pieces

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that are still fun as a story to play

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and we'll get into that more later i

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guess i'm saying that a lot for three

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minutes in

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but it's also it's it's breadcrumbs but

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not all the breadcrumbs are from the

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same bag but no matter how you lay them

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out they're still fun to follow mm-hmm

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wow a lot of a lot of uh metaphor there

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to unpack yeah

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[Laughter]

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tell me about these breadcrumb packs and

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why are they different breadcrumbs uh

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um

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so i asked i asked a couple of my my

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friends my fellow my table table fellows

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as i do often before most recording

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sessions you know i'm recording this

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topic what does it what does it mean to

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you to get a bit more of a holistic view

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rather than just downloads view

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and uh one of them said

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storytelling and by extension the story

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whatever that may be

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is integral to some but optional to

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others so how do you feel about

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which is broadly a topic on

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different players you know the game is

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different things to different players

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but how do you feel about that when it

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comes to specifically to like the story

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and how that story is told i mean i

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[ __ ] hate it but he's right they're

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right

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they are right and as as a writer

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outside of this but as someone who

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enjoys the art of crafting a story

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when you put it into d d and i think

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when you put it into anything really

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yes you have to kind of make your piece

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story is

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story is great story makes me happy

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story makes players happy makes some

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players happy some players

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want to turn up and kill something

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or they want a role play because they

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want to have that release of

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being someone else

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and the story a good story has to be one

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that can cater to both

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and i have been guilty of creating

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ones that are so

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[ __ ] obtuse

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that you deliver your you you kind of

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learn how to deliver your punches

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because you don't ever want to be trying

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to just outsmart your audience i think

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that's a really important thing

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but yeah to return to your point i think

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that player is absolutely right and it

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kills

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me

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but they are absolutely right and you

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have to to be a really good storyteller

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you have to make a story that if someone

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wants to jump in

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you know the homebrew campaign that i

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ran up until very recently tarthage had

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a big

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subplot about

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diverted funds and illegal use of

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government funds and through private

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companies who were all linked into this

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shady criminal organization

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and it was [ __ ] great and there was a

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couple of players who were like well we

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need to get down we need to get that

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accountant and we need to shake him down

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and we need to steal his logbook and we

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need to go through it and i was like

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[ __ ] a1

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there were other players who sort of

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said

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all right well when we get him in the

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room you want someone to brandish and

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axe at him and get him squealing

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or you want someone to do this or that

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give us a call and i was like no no no

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this is really good this is an allegory

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for real life please make my dreams

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matter

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ultimately though you kind of have to

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cut your cloth based on what people want

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to see and it's different to playing to

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the gallery but yeah i think going back

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to the original point i would totally

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agree and it kills me but to be really

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good

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you know some people go and see the

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latest spider-man

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and

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don't care

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why

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i don't want to spoil it it's only not

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been out that long why certain people

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are in it they just want to see

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spider-man jump around and flip and the

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masks go on

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and those people are fine

271
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they're right they have their place and

272
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,760
those people who want to go oh well i

273
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,959
think you'll find you know andrew

274
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,399
garfield

275
00:09:26,959 --> 00:09:29,760
yeah because

276
00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:32,399
because it means something to them and

277
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,560
both of those audiences have to be

278
00:09:32,399 --> 00:09:36,800
accommodated i would say so yeah it

279
00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:39,040
kills me but they're absolutely right

280
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,200
as so there's a couple of things there

281
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,200
that i wanted to talk about so one is

282
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,279
how how do you do that well actually i'm

283
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,519
gonna take one step back from myself

284
00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:48,240
because i was gonna say as a dm how do

285
00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:49,760
you

286
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,360
do that and achieve that and facilitate

287
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,320
that however

288
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,440
that implies that it's the dm's job to

289
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,080
do that to

290
00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,399
to achieve that to make that happen now

291
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,839
how much of the balance is between the

292
00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:03,200
and the gm and the players then when it

293
00:10:01,839 --> 00:10:05,440
comes to

294
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,600
telling a good story to take the easy

295
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,560
way out of asking asking that question

296
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,640
well

297
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:11,920
i think the the teller of the story is

298
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,240
the dm

299
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,839
ultimately because players aren't

300
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,560
characters

301
00:10:15,839 --> 00:10:20,640
and that's if you're someone that goes i

302
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:22,079
have a great idea for a book

303
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,399
but i'm going to make it a dm i'm going

304
00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:25,519
to make it dungeon dragons campaign

305
00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:28,399
take out

306
00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:30,880
any kind of

307
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:33,200
assumption that those characters will do

308
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,200
what your characters did because they

309
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,200
[ __ ] won't because they're people

310
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,720
because they're humans by design

311
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,120
i think what

312
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:44,560
you've got to do as a dm

313
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,880
is bring them all the things they need

314
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,560
yeah so that they can't possibly [ __ ] it

315
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,880
up when they try and assemble it even if

316
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:53,120
they're using two different kits

317
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,040
and it's about having stories that sit

318
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,920
together and we'll go into that if you

319
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,160
like

320
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,959
because there is a difference in terms

321
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,160
of

322
00:10:58,959 --> 00:11:04,320
main storylines and sub storylines yeah

323
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,800
i do think it's

324
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,959
especially if you're homebrew

325
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,399
if you want to do it you've got you've

326
00:11:08,959 --> 00:11:12,160
got to [ __ ] do it

327
00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:14,399
there's no half measures because you are

328
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,480
i always say you're the xbox

329
00:11:14,399 --> 00:11:18,399
anyone can sit down i can sit on fifa

330
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:21,600
and score 20 own goals because the game

331
00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:24,079
allows yeah but you the game is running

332
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,880
the crowds the score the commentators

333
00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:29,200
everything else that's you

334
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:32,320
don't take dming like if you're

335
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:34,000
seriously into homebrew and again

336
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,279
running the books is different but if

337
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,720
you're home brewing you're kind of

338
00:11:35,279 --> 00:11:38,959
[ __ ] electing yourself to say i've

339
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,040
got something that's gonna be great

340
00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:43,040
because i want to sacrifice years of

341
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,360
wizards of the coast material

342
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,360
to say no no no no i i got this guy

343
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,399
going i know i know we're going to tell

344
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,480
you

345
00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:53,279
you keep you rest easy over there a team

346
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,959
of 20 authors and 40 editors

347
00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:56,560
okay okay

348
00:11:54,959 --> 00:11:58,320
i think daddy's got this it's fine yeah

349
00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:59,839
you've got a kind i think you do i think

350
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,519
i think you've got to lie and i'm not

351
00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:03,760
saying that every dm has to be held to

352
00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:05,519
this impossible [ __ ] standard

353
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,320
but i do think there's an onus where you

354
00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:10,160
go i've created a continent and i have

355
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,920
created everything within that continent

356
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,760
and you will exist in it and you will

357
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,279
have a rich and rewarding experience

358
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,600
yeah the players can't go around any

359
00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:20,079
murder hobos there's basic decency in

360
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,600
terms of how you play the game but i

361
00:12:20,079 --> 00:12:23,279
think you got

362
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,600
if they're gonna go if they're gonna zag

363
00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:28,000
when you want them to zig every time and

364
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:30,959
they might you gotta come correct

365
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,920
that's your job that's that's your job

366
00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:35,519
i think i'm very very very happy that

367
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,279
you have

368
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:40,160
clearly defined your hill and are

369
00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:42,560
willing to stand at the top and and

370
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,639
one star is nothing but opinions and

371
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,440
ed's kind of mediating with the audience

372
00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:47,200
um

373
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,680
no i just i think um

374
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:52,160
i just just why play around like

375
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:54,000
set expectations of yourself and set

376
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,560
expectations of your campaign because i

377
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,839
think if you if you do that then just

378
00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:00,320
everything's better isn't it the rising

379
00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:03,040
tide lifts all ships

380
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,480
i just know that there might be

381
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,200
some listeners and i know that there are

382
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,360
people out there that that are very

383
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,639
uh how can i put this

384
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,880
approach it from a different point of

385
00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:15,279
view is my political stance on the

386
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,760
matter in that that yeah

387
00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:19,680
they are very much like no the dm and gm

388
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,279
are not the storytellers they are just

389
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:22,639
the facilitators and it's the players

390
00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:24,399
and the characters that tell the story

391
00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:26,399
and it's or it's a

392
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:27,839
collaborative effort if you want to fall

393
00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:30,079
down yeah i mean

394
00:13:27,839 --> 00:13:32,839
it's of course it's a collaboration it's

395
00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:34,399
not and and here's where i'm i'm maybe

396
00:13:32,839 --> 00:13:37,519
betraying

397
00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:39,680
certain styles of my dming

398
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:42,959
but i had two of my players

399
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:44,320
and eddie's ed played in tarthage and he

400
00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:45,120
was having a chat with someone else he

401
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,720
played

402
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,839
in tarthage

403
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,519
and

404
00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:51,920
that person said

405
00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:53,360
you can sometimes feel when sam's

406
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,079
railroading you

407
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,920
know but it's so good you don't care

408
00:13:56,079 --> 00:14:00,639
and i kind of took that as a little bit

409
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,079
of a comp assault in as much as yeah i

410
00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:04,079
don't want to be seen to be railroading

411
00:14:02,079 --> 00:14:06,720
because that's not good damning but if

412
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:08,560
you do see the joins and you know and

413
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,079
the story's so rich

414
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,399
that you don't really give a [ __ ] and

415
00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:13,839
you're like okay [ __ ] it [ __ ] it let's

416
00:14:12,399 --> 00:14:16,560
do it mm-hmm

417
00:14:13,839 --> 00:14:18,560
fine cool that's are you having fun

418
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:20,480
that's great you know it's it's eddie

419
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:23,120
murphy isn't it it's um

420
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:25,680
giving a story about uh eddie murphy was

421
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,760
getting famous and doing his stand up

422
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,279
and he got a call off bill

423
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:34,320
crosby the even crosby and he said uh

424
00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:36,639
this was the 1980s um and he said i

425
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,399
think you should maybe tone down your

426
00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:40,079
language and tone down because you're a

427
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:41,519
young man and you can't and you're

428
00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:43,360
bringing a little

429
00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:45,120
and eddie murphy says he listened and he

430
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,720
nodded and he put the phone down and he

431
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,720
rung richard pryor

432
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,600
and he said uh richard

433
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,760
bill's called me and he said xyz and

434
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,079
rich pryor famously said tell me

435
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,519
something son do the people laugh

436
00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:58,880
and eddie murphy says yeah and he says

437
00:14:57,519 --> 00:15:00,720
we'll tell bill cosby have a coconut

438
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,320
smile and shut the [ __ ] up it's fine

439
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,000
and that was it and i think sometimes if

440
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,800
people are having fun

441
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,240
you did good yeah you did good i think

442
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,760
it speaks that example you just gave it

443
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,760
all that speaks to the

444
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,279
i don't like to use them the word but

445
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,279
the maturity of the expertise of the

446
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:18,079
players in that case as well who

447
00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:20,160
have the wherewithal to spot the seams

448
00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:21,600
which means that they know you know they

449
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,959
yeah are comfortable enough and

450
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,120
experienced enough with the game to be

451
00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:27,120
able to spot the seams but then also to

452
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,600
not make to be like okay i know what the

453
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,600
dm is trying to do here and i'm gonna

454
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,759
help them achieve it i trust them that

455
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,519
it's gonna be good because

456
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,279
i trust them because you always get a

457
00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,360
little you always get a bit of that

458
00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:41,120
because your players by and large going

459
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,360
to be people you know

460
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,959
my their their friends or

461
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,279
a lot of the people that were in the

462
00:15:44,959 --> 00:15:49,120
tarthage campaign are people who became

463
00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:51,120
friends through playing that campaign

464
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,040
and just meeting up and we became

465
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,279
friends through that they know that i

466
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,120
like marvel films they know i like the

467
00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:58,560
wire they know that i'm kind of

468
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,399
ambivalent to lord of the rings but i

469
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,079
[ __ ] love star wars

470
00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:03,759
they you know what you're gonna get if

471
00:16:02,079 --> 00:16:05,360
you're presented with certain things in

472
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:07,600
the game

473
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,680
if you know how that dm operates you're

474
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,880
going to go right yeah should we trust

475
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,880
big business or should we go with a

476
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,399
fluffy underdog well it's a sam campaign

477
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,560
so you know

478
00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:18,320
don't buy nestle products or whatever

479
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,160
yeah it's one of those things isn't it

480
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,160
you know you've got a kind of

481
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,399
and then i think then it does go on to

482
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,320
the players to suspend disbelief as much

483
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:27,920
as they can yeah the divide between

484
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,920
player knowledge and character knowledge

485
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,920
yeah then it becomes a collaboration

486
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,360
where you're both kind of

487
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,480
winking i'm the magician you're the

488
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,399
audience and we're both kind of

489
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,120
pretending because we don't really want

490
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:40,240
to see the joints yeah so let's let's

491
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,160
share in that and you've just got to

492
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,440
give them a good enough reason to share

493
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,040
in that

494
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,959
i don't really want to see you cut

495
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,880
someone in half with a bladed sword on

496
00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:50,560
stage but like

497
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,839
some people do and that's what a good

498
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,839
story is we've established that

499
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:59,360
so yeah now i i i think to put you at

500
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:02,800
ease in terms of both your dming style

501
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:04,720
and how you approach storytelling is

502
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,559
i am very much

503
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,319
on the same side as you which is [ __ ]

504
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:09,919
for the show sorry listeners because now

505
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:11,360
we're both on the same side

506
00:17:09,919 --> 00:17:13,600
but

507
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:16,799
got it

508
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,240
um but i i do think sometimes it is

509
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:20,240
you know i've spoken to dms before her a

510
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,439
little bit tentative and they're like oh

511
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,360
i've got this planned but i don't know

512
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:25,039
if that's you know too much or not

513
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:26,720
enough or i don't i don't consider

514
00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:29,200
myself a storyteller and i always like

515
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,600
to think like nah like

516
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,400
it is like you are it's fine you can

517
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,480
definitely

518
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,320
have that moniker as well as the 20

519
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,679
other hats you have to wear when you're

520
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,520
when you're sitting behind the screen

521
00:17:37,679 --> 00:17:42,160
and one of them can be

522
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,320
you know storyteller uh you know you

523
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,520
just happen to hold that storytelling

524
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,200
torch for 75 percent of any given

525
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,640
session and the rest of the 25 percent

526
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,640
is spread between the players and i

527
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,320
think if anyone's complaining that maybe

528
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,320
they're characters and this might be a

529
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,840
controversial thing actually here we go

530
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,200
so if you if you wanted that difference

531
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,840
you wanted that free

532
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,440
strap on guys um i i hate star wars and

533
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,799
i love lord of the rings i don't but

534
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:09,679
yeah i hate people and i hate dragons um

535
00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:10,960
no i think if you've got a point

536
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:13,200
where

537
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,200
you need your character to do a thing i

538
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,919
had a i had a and i won't go into the

539
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,960
details there was a point in tarthage

540
00:18:17,919 --> 00:18:22,559
the campaign after ages

541
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,120
where

542
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:26,480
all the characters were in a room

543
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:28,000
and they had to push a button to do a

544
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,440
thing i don't want to tell you what the

545
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,280
thing was because it sounds [ __ ]

546
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,039
ridiculous and it might come into the

547
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,039
show at some point

548
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:37,280
they had to push a button

549
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:40,160
and two of the characters wanted to

550
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,120
and two of the characters didn't want to

551
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,480
now

552
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,080
i have nothing

553
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,120
for if they don't push that button

554
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,080
because they've got to push the button

555
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,120
because they're pushing the buttons the

556
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,120
story

557
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:50,320
but they pushed the [ __ ] button

558
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,000
because the story was good enough to

559
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,840
convince them that up until that point

560
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,120
across the 70 or 80 sessions or whatever

561
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,480
it was

562
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,919
was that

563
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,760
you have to push a button

564
00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:01,600
and that you know how the world works

565
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,200
you know how people around you work you

566
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,480
know the stakes because i've given you

567
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,919
the stakes

568
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,360
and i've shown you examples of the

569
00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:08,799
stakes i haven't told you the stakes

570
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:11,280
i've shown you because that's all good

571
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:12,720
storytelling is showing not telling yeah

572
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,559
and they push the button

573
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,080
so if they're not pushing the button you

574
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:18,160
have to ask yourself first of all you

575
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,760
have to act and go oh [ __ ] there's a

576
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,360
reason i need to import something

577
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,360
quickly to make them push the button and

578
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:26,720
that's that's dungeon mastering

579
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:28,559
but storytelling you have to set you can

580
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,960
build the door and make it as inviting

581
00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:32,080
as possible and your job is to do those

582
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,440
things well enough that they want to

583
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,960
walk through it they want to push the

584
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,400
button and it feels like a natural thing

585
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,480
very well put

586
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,240
just trying to unpack there like

587
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,039
i'm always flattered in a way because i

588
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,720
do that well i dm for that that people

589
00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:48,160
have found fun for 70 plus sessions as

590
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,520
well uh it's a long time you've heard

591
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,760
the homebrew isn't it yeah yeah so

592
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,600
clearly people are happy about it like

593
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,919
they keep coming back uh

594
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,080
and in fact they're fools

595
00:19:55,919 --> 00:19:59,280
as a fact i've spent a lot of the last

596
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,280
two weeks

597
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,480
this is recorded beginning of january

598
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,600
planning

599
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,039
for the return of the camp you know

600
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,280
we've had our christmas holiday i think

601
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:09,280
the last time we played was maybe like

602
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,440
three you had a bit weeks ago so

603
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,559
planning for that okay that was really

604
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,320
good [ __ ]

605
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:16,400
it was the end of a chapter sort of

606
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,080
absolutely perfect timing boss battle

607
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,840
you get the mcguffin everybody's happy

608
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,520
boom yeah we'll see you in three weeks

609
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,360
because it's christmas and new year's

610
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,360
in that boss battle i mean the two

611
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,880
characters died so

612
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:28,640
i spent a lot of the last two weeks

613
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,400
helping those guys build new characters

614
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,840
you know they're starting at level 10 so

615
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,360
there's an additional overhead in the

616
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,880
backstory of like

617
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,240
how are you level 10 like you haven't

618
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,000
just woken up one day and gone i guess

619
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,520
i'm a paladin today

620
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,720
i've got access to fifth level spells

621
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,559
like it doesn't

622
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,000
yeah yeah yeah where was doctor strange

623
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:45,600
and with the soldier man yeah

624
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,919
[Laughter]

625
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,440
yes exactly so i've had to put a little

626
00:20:47,919 --> 00:20:51,679
bit you know work with them to be like

627
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,880
what have you done for the last x years

628
00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:56,400
to get you up to level 10. anyway um

629
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,320
but that is

630
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,440
what i've lost my train of thought i was

631
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,720
just too excited talking about the start

632
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,799
of my new campaign which i guess is a

633
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,799
good thing

634
00:21:04,159 --> 00:21:06,320
um

635
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,440
but no i've been so i've been working

636
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,000
with them and this is actually a good

637
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,280
question that's going to bring me on to

638
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,360
can you

639
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,440
discern a difference or perhaps describe

640
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:19,360
the difference between

641
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,559
world building and storytelling

642
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,480
yes

643
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:25,039
i think and i'm gonna

644
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,520
playfully but firmly draw your attention

645
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:29,280
to the tales of tarthish podcast

646
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,200
of which two series are available from

647
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,720
the link at the bottom of the show

648
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,440
with the first series of tales of

649
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,600
tariffage there was a lot i got to a

650
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,360
point where i had written

651
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,120
nine episodes

652
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:43,039
and it was the story everything you

653
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,559
needed for the story was in those nine

654
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:46,320
episodes and they were they were they

655
00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:47,360
were nine episodes and i think if you go

656
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,880
back and listen to the first series

657
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:50,400
you'll be able to tell which nine were

658
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,080
written yes

659
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,280
in a good way i

660
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,720
i think and people who listen to the

661
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,880
show they keep coming back so they must

662
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,799
like it too right or is that painfully

663
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,720
blindsided anyway

664
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:02,080
i had those nine episodes or eight or

665
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,360
nine episodes

666
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:08,159
and it was the story and we the acts of

667
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:11,120
act one episode one play out

668
00:22:08,159 --> 00:22:13,600
to fruition to the cliffhanger that

669
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:15,360
became the season finale

670
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,280
and i looked at it and i just went it's

671
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,600
too [ __ ] thin

672
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,360
there's too much

673
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,200
implied knowledge

674
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,280
now it's very hard to get away from that

675
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,480
because i've lived in that city in my

676
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:32,240
head yeah for years

677
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:34,559
and years and i know why

678
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,720
xyx happens on a thursday and not on a

679
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:39,919
saturday for example

680
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:41,679
and i sort of looked at the the story

681
00:22:39,919 --> 00:22:42,960
and it opens with quite i think anyone

682
00:22:41,679 --> 00:22:44,559
who's listening to it

683
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,120
will know the first three episodes of

684
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:48,480
bang bang bang very

685
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,159
this happens that happens then this

686
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,840
happens just to chill out

687
00:22:50,159 --> 00:22:54,559
and i had to pick a point where i was

688
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,480
gonna go i'm gonna have to put what else

689
00:22:54,559 --> 00:22:58,240
do i want to show people and this is

690
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,440
where world building over storytelling

691
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,559
comes in

692
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:05,039
and i spoke to my my beautiful wife

693
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:06,799
who has to endure all kinds of absolute

694
00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:08,000
nonsense like i'll walk into the bedroom

695
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:09,520
at half a level enough she hasn't seen

696
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,000
me all day and i go

697
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,159
it's friday there's ninjas it's gonna be

698
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,080
fine and then walk out again

699
00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:18,480
and she said what else do you think is

700
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,240
important to that world and i said well

701
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,760
we've got to show them the relationship

702
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,520
between the watch

703
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,440
and the public because it is all

704
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,600
intended purposes a police procedural

705
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,200
show by way of middle earth

706
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,960
we've got shown the the relationship

707
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,120
between the watch and the public

708
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,440
okay what else

709
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,799
we do need to sort of show them

710
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,159
xyz

711
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:39,520
and we need to show them a little bit

712
00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:41,279
more of these characters so it can

713
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,200
inform so when these characters make

714
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:45,760
decisions

715
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,279
in the future people don't go

716
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,480
i thought i had a bead on that person

717
00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:49,919
yeah

718
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,240
so i think to answer your question

719
00:23:49,919 --> 00:23:54,320
storytelling is the but is the bones and

720
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:57,760
it [ __ ] needs to be there because a

721
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,440
bad story with lots of filler gets you

722
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,159
i mean i haven't had enough wine to slag

723
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,320
off enough projects or ips but

724
00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:07,440
we all know what bad storytelling with

725
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,760
lots of the style looks like yeah right

726
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,679
i think world building

727
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,440
is kind of the skin and the flesh and

728
00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:16,000
the bones and it makes it sexy and it

729
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,240
informs and it kind of gives your

730
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,159
your people your listeners your viewers

731
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,840
your audience

732
00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:25,360
a way in and it makes them feel

733
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:27,600
confident um you know why why are the in

734
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:30,840
tarthage we had the watch they're the

735
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:33,039
police force why are they always [ __ ]

736
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,159
miserable because they're not trusted by

737
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,279
the public

738
00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:36,799
why

739
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:38,880
here's why

740
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:40,000
and here's an episode which explains

741
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,320
that not

742
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,919
you know someone in front of a white

743
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,919
board which would be the easy way out to

744
00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:48,480
go hello and welcome to watch training

745
00:24:45,919 --> 00:24:49,840
101 lesson one why does the public

746
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,279
[ __ ] hate us

747
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,720
you don't do that you have to and this

748
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,559
is where you know there are fundamental

749
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,400
laws of storytelling show don't tell

750
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:58,799
being the most [ __ ] obvious one

751
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,720
and i wrote this episode

752
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:01,520
to delineate between the two and to sort

753
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,240
of

754
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,440
make myself feel good in the process

755
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:09,279
i wrote an episode that delineated

756
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,480
and showed why the public didn't trust

757
00:25:09,279 --> 00:25:12,320
the watch

758
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,480
and people messaged me about the episode

759
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,760
ago that was a [ __ ] good episode and

760
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,000
i go

761
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,919
and nothing happens really

762
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,120
and that kind of informed because with

763
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:23,200
tarfage

764
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,279
you have like the first two each episode

765
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,840
is about six seven pages long the first

766
00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:29,360
two to three pages are like a vignette

767
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,520
like a little

768
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:33,520
something to character talking we see an

769
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,120
interaction that informs the world and

770
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,039
sets a narrative time for the rest of

771
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:39,120
the episode so i'm letting you be on the

772
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,960
curt now but i'm not if this is just

773
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:43,760
good storytelling

774
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,840
and i think it became again to return to

775
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,360
storytelling versus world building

776
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,640
i would look at an episode and i've got

777
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:50,720
seven pages

778
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,320
two to three have to be world building

779
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,559
that little vignette at the beginning

780
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,919
yep and the other

781
00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:59,679
four or five have to be story

782
00:25:57,919 --> 00:26:01,440
and you can always tell when that and i

783
00:25:59,679 --> 00:26:03,760
can tell listen to targets oh [ __ ] i

784
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,360
need to tell some more story because you

785
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,039
you get it out of what i think good

786
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:08,480
target episodes i think good episodes of

787
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:12,240
anything like that

788
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:14,480
have that mix they inform 30 40

789
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,760
and entertain 67

790
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,760
so i think the difference is

791
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,279
they go hand in hand but one is

792
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,120
ultimately more important

793
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:24,559
because how many times have you seen a

794
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:27,120
film and gone

795
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:29,919
it's a shame man their max was [ __ ] the

796
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:32,320
story was just good premise good story

797
00:26:29,919 --> 00:26:34,000
but wasn't very well executed

798
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,600
no one comes out and goes it [ __ ]

799
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,320
looked beautiful but it was dog [ __ ]

800
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:41,039
really and still say on top of that oh

801
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,640
but then i enjoyed it yes i mean no you

802
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:45,120
don't want moulin rouge

803
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,039
you don't want moulin rouge

804
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,200
that's that's today's sound bite is you

805
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:50,559
don't want moulin rouge

806
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,840
because it's great but you look and you

807
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:53,600
go do you like what happened half an

808
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,799
hour i don't know [ __ ] it was obi-wan

809
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,640
singing i don't know

810
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,240
i know what would you would you concur

811
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,760
with that would you draw that same line

812
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,760
of divine what do you think um

813
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:09,360
you've you've cracked my host defense

814
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:10,320
very well uh

815
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,360
but uh

816
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,360
it's

817
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:15,440
the lines are a lot more blurred for me

818
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:17,760
and perhaps it's because of my uh

819
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,679
inexperience shall we say like i'm i

820
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,760
enjoy writing things

821
00:27:19,679 --> 00:27:23,760
god knows how good they are um so i

822
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,080
struggle with

823
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,080
actually he is in my defense what i

824
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,760
struggle with is really identifying

825
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,360
which is which so i'll write a whole

826
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,200
bunch of stuff you know maybe an

827
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:35,360
encounter maybe a they go here and

828
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,840
here's the paragraph i say to the

829
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:40,240
players that explains the the

830
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:43,760
that is very much a here's what you see

831
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,600
when you arrive at this city xyz abc uh

832
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,360
and someone says can i check for traffic

833
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,279
shut the [ __ ] up i have a few more lines

834
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:51,440
then you can check for traps actually

835
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:52,640
i've been really fortunate on that uh i

836
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,080
have to say

837
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,080
that's about six players

838
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,520
they humor me enough now to know like

839
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,080
we'll let him do his thing and then and

840
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,559
then we'll check my drops i did five

841
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,640
once and that was way too much

842
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:10,320
five was just

843
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,440
it was six but entering into the new

844
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,760
year one's taking a a brief hiatus so he

845
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,360
is uh is down to five again and we'll

846
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,320
see how that will affect the dynamic

847
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,520
yeah

848
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,039
but i

849
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,279
like

850
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:25,039
building and uh

851
00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:27,679
planning you know interesting characters

852
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:28,960
interesting settings interesting

853
00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:30,320
you know the way they act the way

854
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,640
they're going to talk and i think a lot

855
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,640
of that is well building to a certain

856
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,559
extent because it's you know they go to

857
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,080
this elven city that's floating up in

858
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:40,880
the sky i mentioned several times in the

859
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,720
show before that it's very much like

860
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,039
dalaran from world of warcraft or like

861
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,039
hogwarts but a flying city up in the sky

862
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:48,799
and there's brooms that are

863
00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:50,960
brushing the streets you know

864
00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:52,080
automatically there's holographic maps

865
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,559
that you know you just look at and

866
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:57,200
little red pulsars tell you where to go

867
00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:59,600
on the map to go to your destination and

868
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,279
that's fun to think and build in that

869
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,200
and so that also sets the scene then to

870
00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:05,120
get this is you know you are clearly in

871
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,720
a place that's full of magic

872
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,039
and people that can that's the thing

873
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,600
isn't it that's a really that's a really

874
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:13,360
good example i think an example i just

875
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,559
rattled on about was

876
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,159
about tarfage as an audio see an audio

877
00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:19,919
play series

878
00:29:18,159 --> 00:29:21,440
which would go onto a little bit later

879
00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:23,520
if you want but

880
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,200
i think to take that out and think about

881
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,159
how i would play that you're absolutely

882
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,480
right with the things that you the

883
00:29:26,159 --> 00:29:31,039
examples you've just given like tarthish

884
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,919
has floating carriages but only certain

885
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:35,679
parts do why don't they doesn't matter

886
00:29:33,919 --> 00:29:37,360
there is a reason but if they ask the

887
00:29:35,679 --> 00:29:39,120
question well these poorer areas don't

888
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,120
have subway stops

889
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,240
cool there's a reason that informs the

890
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,559
world

891
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,000
you know there is magical industry but

892
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:47,039
there's way more magic in the western

893
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,000
quarter because there's a shitload of

894
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,520
money

895
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,440
and there isn't there's loads of

896
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,399
hollowed-out mines that don't run

897
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,120
anymore in the southern district why is

898
00:29:54,399 --> 00:29:56,720
that

899
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,799
never really said

900
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,039
but it's referred to people aren't

901
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:02,799
dumb people get the inference so no i i

902
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:04,799
agree with you there it's it's there's a

903
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:06,960
shitload more opportunity to world build

904
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:08,960
when you're straight dm'ing yes yeah

905
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,159
yeah and oh that reminded me definitely

906
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,520
of another thing i wanted to mention

907
00:30:10,159 --> 00:30:16,240
that that separation of dm knowledge is

908
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:19,279
that is the ongoing problem for every dm

909
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,200
ever is so like it's it's it's almost an

910
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:23,520
impossible one to solve because there's

911
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,919
no way how do you mean

912
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,000
uh like you said like it's hard for

913
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:29,679
a classic example is

914
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,440
oh i set this thing up and my players

915
00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:32,880
didn't go for it or i did this and for

916
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,799
some reason they went they went the

917
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,360
other way or they just or they did

918
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:39,279
murder this person but it's so obvious

919
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,720
so obviously that was the innocent

920
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:43,520
person

921
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,360
and that in various different forms and

922
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,080
various different examples and settings

923
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,760
and

924
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,000
variables but

925
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,440
like it's so hard to disassociate

926
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,960
yourself from what or to try and

927
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,799
understand what the players know which

928
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,320
is like another filter another layer in

929
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:57,360
between what they're actually gonna try

930
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,399
and second guess what they're actually

931
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:03,120
gonna do yeah i think that's something

932
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:04,960
that i've counteracted in not not really

933
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,559
consciously

934
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,760
but in tarfish the the the players they

935
00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:11,919
play

936
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,200
uh if you listen to the show there's

937
00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:15,279
four people of what's called an

938
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,039
extraordinary crimes unit

939
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:18,960
and the premise of the campaign is that

940
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:20,559
you are four members on that and that

941
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,519
was never up for discussion because i

942
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:22,720
didn't know what i was doing when i

943
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:24,000
started dm i didn't know there was such

944
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,519
thing as a session zero where they could

945
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,279
say well actually i want to be no no

946
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,480
you're part of the police

947
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:30,960
right

948
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,399
and in doing that what the police do

949
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,640
whenever they find a clue they go back

950
00:31:32,399 --> 00:31:36,640
to the office and they say right

951
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,120
what do we know

952
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,600
and re and hearing you say that is i'm

953
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,519
kind of glad i'm a much of a lucky idiot

954
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,799
as i am because they were always forever

955
00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:46,559
going

956
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:48,240
the first or last half an hour every

957
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:50,159
session was

958
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,840
right so he was [ __ ] involved and we

959
00:31:50,159 --> 00:31:54,080
know he was there but we don't trust him

960
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,679
and i'm like right this is because that

961
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,840
always gives the opportunity to go well

962
00:31:55,679 --> 00:31:59,919
if that's what you think you know

963
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,640
and there hasn't been a bust up for a

964
00:31:59,919 --> 00:32:04,240
little bit i'm gonna i'm gonna turn that

965
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,080
and it was that he wasn't the innocent

966
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,600
father that bloke with the the

967
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:11,120
children's heads on spikes he was

968
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,960
innocent he was just not understood

969
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,679
you are a lucky bastard for having that

970
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,480
setup that allows you to hear you know

971
00:32:15,679 --> 00:32:20,399
so lucky and never i don't want anyone

972
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,080
this is my request i don't want anyone

973
00:32:20,399 --> 00:32:23,760
to listen to this show

974
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,519
and think that because i'm relatively

975
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,320
articulate about storytelling i'm

976
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:30,799
anything other than an average dm i've

977
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,519
been gifted with wonderful players

978
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:34,880
and my best friend who i do a d podcast

979
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:37,120
with is sat

980
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,279
exactly to my right every time and when

981
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,519
i someone says what's the fall damage of

982
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:44,320
six people falling at 300 feet i can go

983
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:46,080
i don't [ __ ] know ed and ed will go

984
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,360
page no no no no it's like having a

985
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,480
director of film and a director of

986
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,880
photography

987
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,320
always but he's also in the movie so i

988
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,159
don't want anyone to think i'm some sort

989
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,360
of savant dm because i'm yeah i can

990
00:32:54,159 --> 00:32:57,679
absolutely not

991
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,519
what i do have is a i think a good

992
00:32:57,679 --> 00:33:01,039
understanding of story and i think that

993
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:02,159
kind of

994
00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:03,679
you know sometimes you know you're being

995
00:33:02,159 --> 00:33:05,760
railroaded but you don't give a [ __ ] so

996
00:33:03,679 --> 00:33:07,679
i must be doing something right in that

997
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,039
mm-hmm yeah just just to pre-face

998
00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:10,740
everything i've said for the last 40

999
00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:14,019
minutes

1000
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:14,019
[Music]

1001
00:33:16,610 --> 00:33:25,200
[Music]

1002
00:33:22,399 --> 00:33:27,519
but like so many times i've

1003
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,600
you know you you get players that will

1004
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:31,519
latch on to one obscure

1005
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,039
throwaway comment you made as a dm like

1006
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:35,039
50 sessions going out oh but that last

1007
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:36,159
time we spoke to him they said this and

1008
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:39,360
i'm like

1009
00:33:36,159 --> 00:33:40,720
did they did i did i say oh [ __ ] yeah of

1010
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,960
course that's gonna completely color

1011
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:46,320
your next interaction [ __ ] brother

1012
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,720
that have the same name kind of

1013
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,000
and it's it really does explain you know

1014
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,240
when they

1015
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,240
i know i've had it before like if an

1016
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,080
npc's acting a certain way and they are

1017
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,760
struggling to

1018
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,519
vibe or to interact in it in an

1019
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,519
effective you know communicate in an

1020
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:03,600
effective way and i'm like this

1021
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:05,519
in my head i'm like this person isn't

1022
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,399
clearly you know an obnoxious

1023
00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:10,320
holier-than-thou intelligent that

1024
00:34:08,399 --> 00:34:12,079
thinks they're cleverer than everybody

1025
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,200
whereas all they've had so far is hello

1026
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:14,320
would you like to come in and drink some

1027
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,079
tea

1028
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,000
so to me when they're being overtly

1029
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:19,599
obnoxious to the players that's fine

1030
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,280
that's just who this character is but

1031
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:24,800
the players they're like oh this guy's a

1032
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,800
knob and we're gonna have to kill him

1033
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,520
but there again i think in

1034
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,720
tarfridge the campaign was never high

1035
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,679
fantasy

1036
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:35,599
so i automatically took the option of

1037
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,599
this guy's a prick let's cave his head

1038
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:40,240
in and hide him in the bushes

1039
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:41,520
i all but took that off the table

1040
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:42,879
because you can't do that if you're a

1041
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,560
police force

1042
00:34:42,879 --> 00:34:46,800
because the premise of the first session

1043
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,119
of tarfish was a one shot and it was

1044
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,399
catch the killer and

1045
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:52,800
for those of you who have listened to

1046
00:34:50,399 --> 00:34:55,280
the first two series of tarfage

1047
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,599
that is what that is that campaign was

1048
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,359
that there's the election

1049
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:00,800
it's not a great city

1050
00:34:59,359 --> 00:35:02,640
there's a religious

1051
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,680
flighty plug and there's someone

1052
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,280
wandering around skinning people

1053
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,960
now you can dive into that other [ __ ] as

1054
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,640
much as you want and it will help you or

1055
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,800
it won't

1056
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,320
but you have to catch a killer

1057
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,920
and that's the thing that's the story

1058
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,920
the story is there's a guy doing wrong

1059
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,680
and you gotta solve it

1060
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,599
and that's ultimately the story and i

1061
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,960
think people get very

1062
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:24,560
like you sort of said like oh it's

1063
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,800
obviously this and i have this plan for

1064
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:30,240
this cat this npc and it's gonna be like

1065
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,480
a little learning curve about the world

1066
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:34,160
good great and i think that i do love

1067
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,440
that kind of [ __ ] like he comes in he's

1068
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,720
got all these books none of that you

1069
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,160
noticed that you know wrote a perception

1070
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:39,839
check he noticed that while he has all

1071
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,839
these books none of them have been read

1072
00:35:39,839 --> 00:35:43,359
they're all very dusty that informs

1073
00:35:41,839 --> 00:35:45,200
character

1074
00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:46,960
i think ultimately sometimes you have to

1075
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,400
remember what the story is you're

1076
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,240
telling yeah

1077
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,400
and i think that's when because people

1078
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:54,079
sort of latch onto that um

1079
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,400
is it joseph campbell you know there's

1080
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:58,720
only seven stories yes man versus nature

1081
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,640
man versus machine man yes himself which

1082
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:02,000
i think is the only story really but

1083
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,520
whatever

1084
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,960
you kind of have to roll it back and go

1085
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,720
well this

1086
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,960
this is the thing you know like it's

1087
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,880
moving on slightly to another project

1088
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,480
that starts at studios has coming up the

1089
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,520
let's get schwarmer

1090
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,440
marvel multiverse tabletop rpg

1091
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,520
we're doing a let's play

1092
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,320
and i'm gonna be the games master for

1093
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,240
that

1094
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,920
and i was thinking about i'm like oh kid

1095
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,520
in a candy store i can have any marvel

1096
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,720
villain i want and i can do today it's

1097
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,839
going to create his character and it's

1098
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,200
going to be great we're going to set it

1099
00:36:29,839 --> 00:36:32,480
in chicago and we're going to do all

1100
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,560
this

1101
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,960
and i had to stop myself and go

1102
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,880
what is the story

1103
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:42,240
let's think about the character the

1104
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,320
league character ed's custom-made hero

1105
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:46,320
what do they want because that will

1106
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,160
inform the kind of story

1107
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,520
and then from there you build the world

1108
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,599
from there you go right well we want

1109
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:55,119
some this is the theme

1110
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:57,760
okay well what characters fit that theme

1111
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:59,920
i really want carnage but it don't fit

1112
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,520
so you don't get it and if you force it

1113
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:03,200
he'll feel it

1114
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,280
so don't do that

1115
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,480
you see what i mean no i think as you

1116
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,040
said it's like seeing the wood for the

1117
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,200
trees right it's so as as a home brewer

1118
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,040
it is so exciting and something i formed

1119
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,280
out of before is just to run

1120
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,839
run run run away and build all this

1121
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,160
extra extra cool stuff and it is so easy

1122
00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:21,680
to lose sight of but what is meant to be

1123
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,760
happening here what is you know all the

1124
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,839
bells and whistles

1125
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,599
and the brooms

1126
00:37:25,839 --> 00:37:29,359
brush sweep the streets by themselves

1127
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:31,280
all that kind of stuff can sometimes

1128
00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:33,760
obfuscate the

1129
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,880
the journey that we're trying to go on

1130
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,720
together

1131
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,960
and i think that's that's a really

1132
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,480
good way that you said that like

1133
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,599
for example having carnage in is that

1134
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,680
gonna

1135
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:45,680
serve the story or

1136
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,720
take away from the story and then it's a

1137
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,480
simple decision exactly i think um

1138
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:52,640
i've been getting into cooking recently

1139
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,200
i'm a huge fan have been for a long time

1140
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,640
the the late great anthony bourdain and

1141
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,000
someone asked him once how do you make a

1142
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,000
great burger

1143
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,000
innocuous question for a chef of

1144
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,680
renowned skill and he says

1145
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,520
before you a burger should have lettuce

1146
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,400
it should have a patty it should have uh

1147
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,000
tomato and i will allow you mayo

1148
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,160
don't use a brioche bun

1149
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,560
before you're gonna add bacon or any

1150
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,720
kind of cheese ask yourself

1151
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,400
am i making this better or am i doing

1152
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:20,320
this for me

1153
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,560
and i think that some of you you should

1154
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,520
in did you should do that in all facets

1155
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,839
of life

1156
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,599
and i think with a d campaign

1157
00:38:25,839 --> 00:38:30,400
and the story telling through which it's

1158
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:32,400
like yeah you could

1159
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,520
you could have your final boss

1160
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,720
be

1161
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,839
a

1162
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,440
big

1163
00:38:35,839 --> 00:38:38,640
world nd

1164
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,520
thanos

1165
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,440
figure

1166
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,800
who comes in and says i am everything

1167
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,359
you are not

1168
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,640
and that's why you got to stop me

1169
00:38:45,359 --> 00:38:49,119
or

1170
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,280
you can have your villain be and this is

1171
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:53,280
this is how the tarthage campaign ended

1172
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,280
and for those of you who enjoy the show

1173
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,400
this is not how the show will end don't

1174
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,079
worry

1175
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,280
the end of the campaign was remember

1176
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:02,160
that big button i was telling you about

1177
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,760
earlier it was a time machine uh-oh jump

1178
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,800
the shark yeah [ __ ] right you

1179
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,079
remembered you're damn right with the

1180
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,240
last thing we did

1181
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,680
they went back in time to stop this

1182
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:10,720
warlord

1183
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,800
right because they've gone out into the

1184
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:14,880
jungle for whatever reason and they just

1185
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,440
heard about this story about korvax

1186
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,119
callbacks this guy this this he's coming

1187
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,880
he's raised the five armies of hell and

1188
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:24,000
he's coming to target you need to be

1189
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:26,480
ready does it does it does it

1190
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,400
so they go back in time to stop him

1191
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,400
they go back in time and they have a

1192
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,160
little bit of life on mars for our

1193
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,480
american audiences it's like a time

1194
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,920
traveling cop show where someone goes

1195
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,440
back in time and they get to like meet

1196
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,040
their parents and it's kind of back to

1197
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,640
the future but with more sort of

1198
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,599
aggression it's a cop show anyway it's

1199
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,960
great

1200
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:44,960
and they have all these little they meet

1201
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,560
their gruff police chief as a younger

1202
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,160
person a new recruit and there's a lot

1203
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,119
of back and forth there because he was

1204
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,119
dead in their time

1205
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:56,079
they tracked this guy down

1206
00:39:53,359 --> 00:39:57,359
to a farm in the northern territory and

1207
00:39:56,079 --> 00:40:00,079
they're like this guy's going to come

1208
00:39:57,359 --> 00:40:03,359
out [ __ ] bangkok ready he's a warlord

1209
00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:05,760
in 20 years he's joseph stalin but with

1210
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:07,680
an infinity gauntlet essentially

1211
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,280
and they turn up

1212
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,960
and he's just bloke

1213
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,480
and he says hello

1214
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,160
are we all the you're the people from my

1215
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,520
dreams i've been having these weird

1216
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,160
dreams

1217
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,680
and the whole party went

1218
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,440
oh

1219
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,079
um

1220
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,119
are you such and such and he goes uh

1221
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:26,400
yeah

1222
00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:28,400
and they go well

1223
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,400
have you ever heard of corvax and he

1224
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,079
goes yeah yeah it's a um

1225
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,839
i was in the military there was a

1226
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:35,920
village called corvax and we were

1227
00:40:33,839 --> 00:40:37,040
ambushed and then you watch the penny

1228
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,359
drop and they go [ __ ] that's where he

1229
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,960
got his name when he goes mad that's

1230
00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:42,560
where he got his name from

1231
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,839
and he goes um

1232
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,440
well i suppose we've got a lot to talk

1233
00:40:43,839 --> 00:40:47,839
about do you want to

1234
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,560
do i come in for some tea

1235
00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:53,040
and all of them went

1236
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,640
yeah okay and that was the end of the

1237
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,800
campaign

1238
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,079
and that was it and they made the choice

1239
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,079
and they had comment they said just

1240
00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:01,280
[ __ ] sit tight mate

1241
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:02,640
and they were having conversations like

1242
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,160
we can't kill him for something he

1243
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,920
hasn't done yet yeah i was gonna say is

1244
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,599
that is that where it got to yeah that

1245
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,319
where it got to me they made the choice

1246
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:11,680
in game to stay in the past

1247
00:41:10,319 --> 00:41:13,280
and watch him

1248
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,599
so if he ever looked like he was going

1249
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,000
bad they'd intervene

1250
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:20,480
and that i think bringing it all the way

1251
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,920
around to storytelling again

1252
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,280
that i think is a way better story than

1253
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,400
evil

1254
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,410
bang

1255
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,520
no more evil

1256
00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:30,720
[Laughter]

1257
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,480
call me i don't know call me

1258
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:34,160
old-fashioned i just think that's a bit

1259
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,599
it's a bit richer i think everyone gets

1260
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,880
a bit more out of that

1261
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:38,720
i don't know what do you think i've

1262
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,240
talked for another 20 minutes

1263
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,359
uninterrupted

1264
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:45,040
for the listeners i actually just

1265
00:41:41,359 --> 00:41:46,960
stepped away for 10 of those minutes and

1266
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,480
it's a girl playing notes and crosses

1267
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,839
with a clown for those of you

1268
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,800
well coming out they're all british deep

1269
00:41:51,839 --> 00:41:54,800
cuts today i love it

1270
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,040
now go ahead please don't need eighty

1271
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,800
percent of the audience that's cool

1272
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,040
absolutely yeah

1273
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,960
i enjoy squarespace as a sponsor too

1274
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,920
anyway

1275
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,880
um

1276
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:11,760
no i i i agree there is a richness and a

1277
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,400
depth there that is

1278
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,680
sometimes not always sometimes lacking

1279
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,000
in a

1280
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:21,119
two-dimensional good versus evil story

1281
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,359
however the overhead on the storyteller

1282
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:25,040
or the dm depending on how you describe

1283
00:42:23,359 --> 00:42:27,920
it is a lot more there is a lot more

1284
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,359
there you need to of course so it's it's

1285
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,599
a trade-off

1286
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:33,200
and here's where i'm gonna counter you

1287
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:34,880
and say this is this is this is the

1288
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,800
reason why some people play published

1289
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,319
modules is because they're like [ __ ] i

1290
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,000
don't do anything that nonsense i just

1291
00:42:38,319 --> 00:42:41,680
wanna yeah

1292
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,200
and there's nothing wrong with that and

1293
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,960
i hope that i've not intimated that

1294
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,720
there's nothing wrong all i've done is

1295
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,760
talk on

1296
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:51,760
what i know and i'm aware that like

1297
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,520
some of those modules

1298
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,920
are widely considered to be some of the

1299
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,599
greatest publishing in

1300
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,839
in the game and i'm jealous that i will

1301
00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:03,280
never get to i don't know why the [ __ ]

1302
00:42:59,839 --> 00:43:05,599
strad's such a big deal i get it

1303
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,960
but i don't always you know

1304
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:08,880
have the layer of knowledge and i think

1305
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,200
yeah absolutely you have to remember

1306
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,880
that i was building that campaign in the

1307
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,760
middle of lockdown and i didn't have a

1308
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,839
job

1309
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,920
so there's a lot of time to re-watch all

1310
00:43:15,839 --> 00:43:19,520
those old movies and weld [ __ ] together

1311
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,800
and say oh i'm gonna do that and i'm

1312
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,560
gonna steal that and i'm gonna have a

1313
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,760
bit of that and

1314
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,440
you know and i can talk to all my

1315
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,040
players individually and i can play as

1316
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,720
often as i want because guess what no

1317
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,760
one's [ __ ] doing anything else anyway

1318
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:31,359
so

1319
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,200
now you know come on you've been wait

1320
00:43:31,359 --> 00:43:36,240
you're way too modest both our homebrew

1321
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,839
campaigns are way better than curses

1322
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:40,839
no one's ever accused me of being too

1323
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:40,839
modest

1324
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,079
yeah i get it i do get why people play

1325
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,839
the games and it's not to say

1326
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:49,920
you know if i could talk on it i would

1327
00:43:47,839 --> 00:43:52,240
but i can't so i don't yeah yeah and

1328
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,720
don't take that for some sort of well i

1329
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:57,040
think you'll find in my campaigns

1330
00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:59,359
either it is or isn't yeah yeah you know

1331
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:01,040
i mean it's it's down to the players

1332
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:03,520
yeah yeah i think

1333
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,839
just because my campaign is xyz and

1334
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,599
focus on things i deem to be narratively

1335
00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:09,520
important

1336
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:11,760
does not take away from the narrative

1337
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,960
importance of go here and kill the

1338
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:17,040
vampire because it can be just as rich

1339
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,000
in some cases richer because it's

1340
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,599
simpler yes no one ever had to steal

1341
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,599
you know no one ever had to kidnap

1342
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:25,440
strad's accountant and steal his

1343
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:27,440
financial records to get another plot

1344
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,800
point which is something that happened

1345
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,400
in target once or twice

1346
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,920
oh i i had a question obviously we've

1347
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:38,400
talked a lot about how as gm's and uh

1348
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,560
people who who do more of the heavy

1349
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,839
lifting when it comes to planning and

1350
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:46,800
preparing and story management to again

1351
00:44:43,839 --> 00:44:49,119
use a politically benign term as a

1352
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,880
player how could you what are your

1353
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:52,720
thoughts on how can you help when you're

1354
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,079
limited in your power

1355
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:55,599
you know as a gm you're not limited in

1356
00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:57,359
power but when you are limited in what

1357
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:58,560
you can do at any given moment how can

1358
00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:00,240
you help

1359
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,839
tell a good story

1360
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:05,680
i think

1361
00:45:01,839 --> 00:45:07,200
have a backstory that is

1362
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,599
have a backstory of your character that

1363
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,520
informs your character's motivations but

1364
00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:13,760
has plenty of

1365
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,920
scope to fit into the world

1366
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,920
so go to your dm as i did for a

1367
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,800
character for a campaign for example who

1368
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:23,119
is doing a holy

1369
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,079
homebrew campaign

1370
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:28,640
and i said hey i'm thinking about this

1371
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:31,280
and to make that make sense i can kind

1372
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,880
of maybe he comes from feywild but how

1373
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,920
does that fit into your world man

1374
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,440
because there's nothing about that in

1375
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,119
the pdf that you've put out and i just

1376
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,480
don't want to just say i'm from the very

1377
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:39,680
world you know i have to do all this

1378
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,920
other [ __ ]

1379
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,920
and if he luckily

1380
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,839
the dm said i haven't thought but yeah

1381
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,359
it could definitely be part of the world

1382
00:45:45,839 --> 00:45:48,400
and it then came up later on in the

1383
00:45:47,359 --> 00:45:49,599
story

1384
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,880
but if he hadn't been from the fair

1385
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:51,760
world he could have been from somewhere

1386
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,079
else

1387
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,440
it was more that he was displaced son of

1388
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:57,200
royalty

1389
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,119
and that royalty happened to be the

1390
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,760
seaweed court it didn't matter that it

1391
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:03,520
wasn't whatever you know so go in and

1392
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,800
have those again

1393
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,720
i think

1394
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,400
the the rules of storytelling as we've

1395
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:10,480
sort of laid out are like

1396
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,720
have the broad strokes themes

1397
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,200
know those simple things

1398
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:18,400
and then when you go to your your dm you

1399
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:21,119
can say i want this character to be like

1400
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,400
this and here's why

1401
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:24,240
but what do you think and they'll say

1402
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,599
well maybe he was involved in this

1403
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:28,480
conflict or maybe she was a student at

1404
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:30,720
this

1405
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:33,200
university or maybe they were a part of

1406
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:34,640
this because this is [ __ ] that informs

1407
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,240
them going anyway

1408
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,680
and it's great if you're tied to it

1409
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,599
nothing's worse than if you come in and

1410
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,079
you've got six people who have

1411
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:43,599
backstories that are now not only need

1412
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:44,960
to be played out also need to be

1413
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:46,480
established because they haven't been

1414
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,720
hooked into the world

1415
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,640
yeah yeah and that's on you as a player

1416
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:52,160
you can't come in and go he will do this

1417
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,920
she will do that and they will do this

1418
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,040
together and i will have no movement

1419
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,680
upon this

1420
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,200
because your dm will see things

1421
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,720
that you don't because that's what

1422
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,079
second eyes are all about you will see

1423
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:03,839
things about the overall world that your

1424
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:06,000
dm doesn't because you're far too close

1425
00:47:03,839 --> 00:47:07,440
never bet on your own team right

1426
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,280
and they will say if they're good

1427
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,680
they'll say i was thinking about

1428
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:14,480
just watch out for this person have you

1429
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,240
got anyone in your past that could be

1430
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,680
that you could know

1431
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:19,359
would you like to would they inform me

1432
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,440
oh yeah go on what you got well there's

1433
00:47:19,359 --> 00:47:24,160
gonna be this song that pops up and i

1434
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,599
won't tell you what but does it does

1435
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,440
[ __ ] great that's why you have

1436
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:29,359
session zero yes

1437
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,960
you know so i think yeah you respond and

1438
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:33,599
you know day to day roll [ __ ]

1439
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,680
investigation checks roll inside checks

1440
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:37,599
because you know that if the scene isn't

1441
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,160
moving on there's something that you

1442
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:43,520
haven't seen so roll an inside check

1443
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,960
dump some stats into wisdom or whatever

1444
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,119
i think a good a good

1445
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,160
case in point of this is as i mentioned

1446
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:50,160
two of my players are running new

1447
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,200
characters yeah that's literally as we

1448
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,800
speak and both of them are first type

1449
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,000
were first timers when we started all

1450
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,880
those years ago

1451
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,400
and

1452
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:03,599
both of their first characters were

1453
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,680
very obviously first characters uh

1454
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:07,839
let me put it like that they were

1455
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,079
yeah one wasn't an amnesiac

1456
00:48:07,839 --> 00:48:11,760
and that was pretty much it so

1457
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:13,119
oh jason bourne that's not something you

1458
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,319
see ripped off a lot

1459
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:15,839
i don't mean that sarcastic though

1460
00:48:14,319 --> 00:48:17,680
that's actually like that struck me and

1461
00:48:15,839 --> 00:48:19,359
i went you were like well i think you're

1462
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,760
fine it's quite one dimension i was like

1463
00:48:19,359 --> 00:48:23,040
that's [ __ ] brilliant that's amazing

1464
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,800
i mean it was good to the dm because i

1465
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,400
was like ah here's a whole arc i can

1466
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,240
build and i don't really need any input

1467
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,440
from him because yeah he doesn't even

1468
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:30,960
know

1469
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,680
three months down the line he's like so

1470
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,680
i had 15 horses and six [ __ ] yeah yeah

1471
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,520
that's the one

1472
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,119
and then the other guy was

1473
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,040
not an amnesiac but didn't like to talk

1474
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:42,319
about his past so

1475
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,240
stifled

1476
00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:45,839
a few roleplay encounters with both the

1477
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,280
other players so there was there was

1478
00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:48,480
little like

1479
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,319
get up and go

1480
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:54,400
between the pair of them now both those

1481
00:48:50,319 --> 00:48:57,520
characters have died uh so oh well

1482
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:59,839
yeah however the new characters are like

1483
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,920
maybe we do this and maybe i know this

1484
00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:04,079
guy and maybe i traveled with him and

1485
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,440
maybe that's why i'm the way i am and

1486
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:07,680
this is all the other stuff and because

1487
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,440
i've said them like you're not making a

1488
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,200
character in isolation here's a

1489
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,440
five-page document of all the npcs

1490
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,359
you've met here's a four-page document

1491
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,440
that says like who the gods are in this

1492
00:49:15,359 --> 00:49:18,800
world and what that means if you were to

1493
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,400
support one of them

1494
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,079
hook off of any of that you know the

1495
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,160
places you've been to hook off any of

1496
00:49:22,079 --> 00:49:26,720
those here's a map of the world

1497
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,640
throw a [ __ ] dart and pick a place

1498
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:30,240
that's where you're from yeah

1499
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,000
but that's good though isn't it and i

1500
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:34,480
think that's

1501
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,240
i had to do that because i hadn't played

1502
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:39,040
at all until

1503
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:40,559
a year ago really not properly i'd dm

1504
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,319
for so long but it's totally different

1505
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:43,599
skill set and i did make a character

1506
00:49:42,319 --> 00:49:45,200
that was

1507
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:46,559
you know the adopted son of the sealy

1508
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,000
court and he was a little bit of a thor

1509
00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:49,359
rip off and he talked like this and he

1510
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,720
had a hammer

1511
00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:52,079
and it was great just a little bit of a

1512
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:55,760
thought

1513
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:55,760
yeah you get into it yeah [ __ ] you

1514
00:49:56,079 --> 00:50:00,960
no there's not um but then you get into

1515
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:04,240
the quest and then

1516
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:06,880
i kind of said to the dm look

1517
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:08,800
i kind of want to try something else

1518
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,079
my second thing out my mouth was is this

1519
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,359
going to [ __ ] anything up because that

1520
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:13,119
should always be your question because

1521
00:50:11,359 --> 00:50:15,200
you made the character it's as much on

1522
00:50:13,119 --> 00:50:17,119
you as it is on them

1523
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,480
and he said no not at all try what you

1524
00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:21,040
think and i said

1525
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,960
he's just a guy from a clan who lives in

1526
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,280
the forest and he looks at the stars and

1527
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,359
the stars aren't moving correctly and

1528
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,680
the rest of his family have left or died

1529
00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:31,520
because that's just what the clan does

1530
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,200
and um

1531
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,480
he's kind of just on his way to look at

1532
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,559
stuff

1533
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,559
and he went yeah let's do it and it was

1534
00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:41,760
it was my favorite his name was um

1535
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:43,520
cormoran vale and he was he was like yes

1536
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,440
this everyone calm down a little bit

1537
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,040
let's have a sit down and let's have a

1538
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,400
little sanity do you like food do you

1539
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,960
like bacon

1540
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,480
and he was that role-playing lube do you

1541
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,240
know what i mean i don't think i agree

1542
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,599
with that

1543
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,280
you know and he would occasionally come

1544
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:58,559
up but he had really [ __ ] high

1545
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,400
insight

1546
00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:02,319
so if we were ever in a situation where

1547
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,839
it's like okay as a dm i kind of know

1548
00:51:02,319 --> 00:51:05,520
there's something else probably going on

1549
00:51:03,839 --> 00:51:06,800
yeah yeah yeah i don't want to spoil the

1550
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,640
pie i don't have a guy well i think i

1551
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,000
know

1552
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,920
i just wrote an insight check and he had

1553
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,680
like a plus six on inside

1554
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,680
which is [ __ ] great because you're

1555
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,130
just like yes he doesn't tie his shoes

1556
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,400
left and right do you know what i mean

1557
00:51:17,130 --> 00:51:22,640
[Laughter]

1558
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,559
but thank you thank you for giving me uh

1559
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,800
for for cooperating my

1560
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:29,040
thing earlier on where i said that one

1561
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,520
good mark of a good player is is that

1562
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,680
appreciation of what the dm is going so

1563
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,200
as you said they're like i know what

1564
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,359
something's up here but i'm not gonna be

1565
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,960
like everyone stop the game clearly the

1566
00:51:37,359 --> 00:51:41,119
dm wants us to do this let's just go and

1567
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,800
do it because i personally no one likes

1568
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:44,000
that person yeah no one likes that

1569
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,680
person at the time you don't like him

1570
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:50,720
for dm you want that person to die slow

1571
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:53,119
but you also as a player you're like

1572
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:54,400
yeah okay yeah we all know but or some

1573
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:56,000
of us don't

1574
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,839
it doesn't matter it's the telling isn't

1575
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,040
it it's the trusted trust the tale not

1576
00:51:57,839 --> 00:52:01,520
the teller

1577
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,359
you know you've got to kind of

1578
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,800
get in there and

1579
00:52:03,359 --> 00:52:07,200
like we said at the beginning allow

1580
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,960
yourself to be willfully deceived yes

1581
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,319
and if someone goes well i can clearly

1582
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,319
see that he's got another dove that's

1583
00:52:10,319 --> 00:52:14,720
healthy under his sleeve no one cares

1584
00:52:12,319 --> 00:52:16,400
yeah do that better yeah no one wants to

1585
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:18,240
be that guy

1586
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,640
yeah no one wants to be that person i

1587
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:22,240
saw the wire in up his uh

1588
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,920
running around his neck yeah i saw the

1589
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:25,280
wire yeah right

1590
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,680
well done it's like the person that

1591
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,960
shouts out the punchline

1592
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:33,760
comedy gig it's like [ __ ] that person

1593
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,359
i'm not paid to see you friend

1594
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:38,079
yeah exactly yeah is your name on the

1595
00:52:35,359 --> 00:52:40,480
billboard no shut the [ __ ] up

1596
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:42,559
so i know one one last thing that i was

1597
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,920
thinking about and that we we've kind of

1598
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:46,800
skirted it a little bit you did mention

1599
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:49,680
it earlier on around railroading and how

1600
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,280
that is generally bad considered bad

1601
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,599
yeah it depends it depends again on your

1602
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,280
definition and the state and the context

1603
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:58,000
of obviously context is everything and

1604
00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:00,319
the state of the game and blah blah blah

1605
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:04,160
where do you fall on that spectrum then

1606
00:53:00,319 --> 00:53:06,160
of like when is it okay when when is it

1607
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,559
even not better than okay when is it

1608
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:11,520
even necessary you might say

1609
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:14,319
not to leave the witness i think

1610
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:17,280
i think railroading is

1611
00:53:14,319 --> 00:53:18,640
i think it's somewhat loaded term

1612
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,960
and i think people who are accused of

1613
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:23,200
the dms of it on the reg are expecting

1614
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:25,040
something than most of the dms can

1615
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:29,200
provide

1616
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,200
because a lot of dms aren't matt mercer

1617
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,960
right a lot of people that kick a

1618
00:53:32,319 --> 00:53:36,240
football about aren't sergio aguero

1619
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,680
or whatever do you know what i mean a

1620
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:40,079
lot of people that

1621
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,680
are in am dram aren't ian mckellen yeah

1622
00:53:40,079 --> 00:53:45,359
so if you're going and you're judging by

1623
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:47,680
that standard to a point

1624
00:53:45,359 --> 00:53:49,680
just to a point because i think there is

1625
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,359
there's another conversation about

1626
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,599
holding standards to yourself yeah

1627
00:53:51,359 --> 00:53:55,359
whatever i'm not getting into that

1628
00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:56,559
i think you're gonna be

1629
00:53:55,359 --> 00:53:58,240
sort of

1630
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:59,520
disappointed

1631
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:00,400
because you've set yourself up for a

1632
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:01,520
fall

1633
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,359
because

1634
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,520
you know i wish that i was as good as

1635
00:54:03,359 --> 00:54:06,319
doing voices and as good at doing voices

1636
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,079
as

1637
00:54:06,319 --> 00:54:10,160
other people but you're not yeah as a

1638
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:12,079
professional career voice actor yeah

1639
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,920
yeah exactly what yeah why is matt

1640
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:15,280
mercer so good because it's his [ __ ]

1641
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,359
job

1642
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,359
let's be honest he don't do it every

1643
00:54:17,359 --> 00:54:21,359
other sunday when everyone can sort of

1644
00:54:19,359 --> 00:54:23,200
park the kids and park their partners

1645
00:54:21,359 --> 00:54:25,680
and find four hours to sit in front of a

1646
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:28,240
computer around the table

1647
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,960
but i think railroading therefore is

1648
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:32,319
there is that little bit of

1649
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,839
oh i don't think you should do it but i

1650
00:54:32,319 --> 00:54:35,200
think if you have to lead a horse to

1651
00:54:33,839 --> 00:54:37,440
water

1652
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,839
there is still an element of onus on you

1653
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:42,160
to make the horse want to drink

1654
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:43,920
so i think it is good because you know

1655
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,760
what what is railroading you've just

1656
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,599
said you ended your three year campaign

1657
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,200
or at least that arc of it with a big

1658
00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:50,640
boss

1659
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,400
now they've turned up and they've not

1660
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,400
gone well you know what i already built

1661
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,240
an orphanage song going home of course

1662
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,480
they didn't you railroaded them into

1663
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:00,559
fighting that person all that thing in

1664
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,319
in certain yeah in certain respects if

1665
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:03,440
you really want to go down to it you

1666
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:05,200
know

1667
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,880
do i railroad people i was playing a

1668
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,920
one-on-one campaign testing out a new

1669
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:12,079
world with my my better half

1670
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,359
and i presented her a choice

1671
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:14,640
and i didn't have nothing if she didn't

1672
00:55:13,359 --> 00:55:15,839
pick the other word if she went you know

1673
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,760
i'm going to leave it

1674
00:55:15,839 --> 00:55:19,760
you got up you've got to railroad them a

1675
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,240
little bit it's not whether you do it or

1676
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,559
not it's how well you

1677
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:26,160
it's how well you do it

1678
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:28,319
it's how well you do it's how well you

1679
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,839
set up that big boss to go

1680
00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:31,359
we're going to kill him

1681
00:55:29,839 --> 00:55:32,720
because that's what the story requires

1682
00:55:31,359 --> 00:55:34,240
because if we leave him b he's going to

1683
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:36,559
eat the world because that's what we've

1684
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:38,559
set up yeah you know

1685
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:41,200
it's it's about how well you do it no

1686
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:42,480
one actually thinks that the magician

1687
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,000
kills the dove and brings it back to

1688
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,920
life right

1689
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,839
no one actually thinks that but you're

1690
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,520
led to believe it but if the magician

1691
00:55:47,839 --> 00:55:51,839
comes out and goes this is a real dove i

1692
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,040
[ __ ] promise real dove not rubber

1693
00:55:51,839 --> 00:55:54,400
because i've heard you can get them but

1694
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,040
this isn't one

1695
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,799
or railroading but if the magician comes

1696
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,000
out and says ah i am a master of life

1697
00:55:58,799 --> 00:56:02,079
and death and i can rearrange the

1698
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,920
molecules and i can just make this dove

1699
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:06,160
disappear and then i can rearrange the

1700
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,839
molecules and he's appeared again

1701
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:11,680
one of those is better so than the other

1702
00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:14,240
so do it [ __ ] do it just do it well

1703
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,079
in where appropriate yes to service your

1704
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:18,079
story which should be the caveat of

1705
00:56:16,079 --> 00:56:19,839
everything else yes oh absolutely yeah i

1706
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:21,200
love that when is basically made me

1707
00:56:19,839 --> 00:56:23,920
think of like when is railroading not

1708
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,880
railroading or it was it was

1709
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,559
i mean obviously all the published

1710
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,480
adventures have a set beginning middle

1711
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:30,480
and end i can't think of i can't think

1712
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,079
of a more ironic way of and you can't

1713
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,480
talk about you can't talk to me about

1714
00:56:32,079 --> 00:56:37,200
storytelling even in this sort of

1715
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,640
non-linear breadcrumbs without

1716
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,240
railroading you know

1717
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,440
and ultimately again at the beginning of

1718
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:43,920
the conversation we talked about the

1719
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,440
relationship between players and

1720
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,680
dms

1721
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,720
no one goes right so your dm leads you

1722
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,599
out into the jungle and says the

1723
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:52,720
mystical city is here you are here no

1724
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:54,880
one goes

1725
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:57,839
i'm gonna go [ __ ] east and i'm gonna

1726
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,760
walk and i'm just gonna walk yeah and

1727
00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:01,119
that's all i'm gonna do

1728
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,000
because you want to know what's in the

1729
00:57:01,119 --> 00:57:06,400
mystical city shut up

1730
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,760
of course you do of course you do

1731
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,839
but of course you of course you do if

1732
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,839
your dm's right so maybe maybe it's more

1733
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:12,400
of a

1734
00:57:10,839 --> 00:57:14,079
cyclical

1735
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,480
left hand right washes right hand

1736
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:17,680
relationship than i previously thought

1737
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,119
quite quite

1738
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,880
we've all we've all learned something

1739
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:23,200
haven't we done it we have but we have

1740
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,599
at the the i mean the value of this

1741
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,839
podcast continues to increase and i you

1742
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:29,680
know i wouldn't go that far

1743
00:57:27,839 --> 00:57:31,839
i mean it started pretty low mate so i

1744
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,440
mean it doesn't take much yeah

1745
00:57:31,839 --> 00:57:35,760
let me tell you how we agree on

1746
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,440
everything

1747
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,319
but i mean that's what i was thinking of

1748
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,400
like

1749
00:57:38,319 --> 00:57:42,000
obviously it's as you said it has a bad

1750
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,839
rap and it's very but it can be seen as

1751
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,319
very binary or uh

1752
00:57:43,839 --> 00:57:48,880
absolutionist like so does if you look

1753
00:57:46,319 --> 00:57:50,559
at films people say oh well the plot

1754
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,520
wasn't very good was it the plot was

1755
00:57:50,559 --> 00:57:54,240
just

1756
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:56,559
how many people about avatar the uh the

1757
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,839
james cameron movie yes said well i

1758
00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:58,880
think you'll find the plot isn't very

1759
00:57:57,839 --> 00:58:00,319
good no but you're not going for the

1760
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,480
[ __ ] plot you idiot you're going for

1761
00:58:00,319 --> 00:58:05,520
the virtual reality 4d

1762
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,520
whatever the [ __ ] it was yeah i mean

1763
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,839
and it has to take a back seat to make

1764
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,960
way for other stuff no one wants to

1765
00:58:09,839 --> 00:58:13,280
watch

1766
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:15,839
the godfather by way of avatar because

1767
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:18,160
there's too much going on

1768
00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:19,760
the plot is wonderful but then if you

1769
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,520
were to put the visual effects you just

1770
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,680
you just want to kill yourself

1771
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,680
see one has to make way for the other

1772
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,440
and that's why we have jokes like oh

1773
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:30,960
well this was a role play session yeah

1774
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:33,440
because that services when player x goes

1775
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:35,280
down in the next battle no one gives a

1776
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,880
[ __ ] if we don't have this

1777
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,559
role play episode

1778
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,720
you know and there's so many people get

1779
00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:41,839
up on the high halls about well i think

1780
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,680
um

1781
00:58:41,839 --> 00:58:44,640
you know the plot wasn't great but this

1782
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,720
is

1783
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:49,280
great or that wasn't great but that yeah

1784
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,720
sometimes that's a conscious choice

1785
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,319
because [ __ ] has to make way because

1786
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,640
you've got to be really good you've got

1787
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:57,440
to be like david simon levels of great

1788
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,640
writer yeah to make everything just work

1789
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,720
yes yes

1790
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,240
with no concessions or any you know

1791
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,079
anything like that yeah no concessions

1792
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,559
no joins no questions well why didn't

1793
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:08,319
mcnally do that if he knew that

1794
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:10,559
yeah come on

1795
00:59:08,319 --> 00:59:12,079
come on man it's just that sometimes

1796
00:59:10,559 --> 00:59:13,440
it's just that good but very rarely and

1797
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:16,400
don't hold yourself to that standard do

1798
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:19,200
the best closest thing you can do to it

1799
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,960
yeah i love how that you know there is

1800
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,720
this disdain for our wedding but then

1801
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:25,359
obviously nine campaigns out of ten

1802
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:27,839
maybe i'm being facetious but many many

1803
00:59:25,359 --> 00:59:30,319
campaigns will have a bit a big bad and

1804
00:59:27,839 --> 00:59:32,160
at what point is that that onus to go

1805
00:59:30,319 --> 00:59:34,079
and destroy the big bad it that in of

1806
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,520
itself is railroading which i kind of

1807
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:37,040
like the

1808
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:40,240
the perfect

1809
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:42,960
robber snaking its own tail guys

1810
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:44,640
no exactly you're so right dan i think

1811
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,480
it's it's defined railroading

1812
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,480
railroading to me because i think i know

1813
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,160
what people mean they say

1814
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,760
you go into a tavern there's three old

1815
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,359
women they don't really look good and

1816
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,640
then there's one man and he has a dog

1817
00:59:53,359 --> 00:59:56,880
and the dog looks at you and says

1818
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:59,440
everything is a lie

1819
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:02,480
that's railroading you know what happens

1820
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:04,799
if i go left dm nothing happens it's a

1821
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,319
it's a blank hallway that's railroading

1822
01:00:04,799 --> 01:00:08,880
but it's done poorly

1823
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:11,119
what happens if i go left dm

1824
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,319
it appears to be a uh appears to be a

1825
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:14,400
dead end well i'm gonna roll the

1826
01:00:12,319 --> 01:00:16,079
investigation check you do that

1827
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,440
i roll the 20.

1828
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:19,280
you see that there is nothing really

1829
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,599
wrong and the mildew is consistent with

1830
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:23,280
the season and it has grown

1831
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:25,440
oh okay that's my

1832
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,880
that's my curiosity stated i am gonna go

1833
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,160
left yeah

1834
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,799
you know i had it when i had it when i

1835
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,920
was doing a campaign with um

1836
01:00:30,799 --> 01:00:33,440
with ed

1837
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,720
doing a one-on-one campaign we went into

1838
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,200
a bar and there was an old woman that

1839
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,880
had lots of blink pets she had a blink

1840
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,839
parrot oh yeah and a blink dog that

1841
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,200
would chase the blink cat and they were

1842
01:00:40,839 --> 01:00:45,280
just chasing each other around and then

1843
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,880
there was an old guy with the paper and

1844
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,920
i went he knows me well enough that i

1845
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,000
know and he went straight over to that

1846
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,920
woman and she was like i'm going to

1847
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,280
shout it geez

1848
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,559
i'm going to back off now and i'm going

1849
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,680
to go and talk to the other guy and he

1850
01:00:54,559 --> 01:00:57,280
the other guy was the person he should

1851
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,200
have talked to

1852
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,359
that was railroading but i kind of had

1853
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,480
something in the bag for if he didn't

1854
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:04,400
so

1855
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,760
do it do it it's all storytelling is

1856
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,240
railroading they want you to turn the

1857
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:10,799
next page just [ __ ] do it well it is

1858
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,559
it is sorry dan you go now no no that is

1859
01:01:10,799 --> 01:01:15,200
it that that's what that's what i was

1860
01:01:12,559 --> 01:01:18,079
alluding to and you have

1861
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:21,599
hung that hat on that coat stand aptly

1862
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:21,599
uh so thank you very much um

1863
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,480
is there anything you want to talk about

1864
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,799
that we might have missed i get the

1865
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,319
impression almost definitely but

1866
01:01:26,799 --> 01:01:29,920
yeah i mean how long do you want to show

1867
01:01:28,319 --> 01:01:33,200
a bit i think

1868
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:35,040
secrets of storytelling show don't tell

1869
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,960
all storytelling is

1870
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:38,640
intent and

1871
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,720
obstruction

1872
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,880
that is what it is ultimately

1873
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,480
luke wants to know where he's from

1874
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,920
and the death star's in the way and he

1875
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,640
falls into being part of the rebellion

1876
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:50,640
watch that movie the rebellion is way

1877
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,160
more important than the force

1878
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,680
right

1879
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,920
a new hope being the movie anyway is

1880
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:58,160
there anything i want to add um

1881
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:01,440
if you've enjoyed my ramblings you can

1882
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:03,200
head over to start set show on twitter

1883
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,440
and check out the tales of tarthage

1884
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:08,400
podcast that's an audio play there are

1885
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:10,319
two seasons of 12 or 13 episodes

1886
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,920
if you liked line of duty or the wire or

1887
01:02:10,319 --> 01:02:14,079
lord of the rings i'd like to think

1888
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,520
you'd like that but who knows i do all

1889
01:02:14,079 --> 01:02:16,799
the voices

1890
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:19,200
give that a look

1891
01:02:16,799 --> 01:02:22,079
um what else

1892
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:24,480
as i've mentioned i think there will be

1893
01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:26,160
a brand new show from start set studios

1894
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,000
called let's get swarmer we'll be

1895
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:30,079
breaking down the brand new marvel

1896
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:32,160
multiverse role-playing game

1897
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:34,720
we will be doing a let's play if you go

1898
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:37,039
to let's get swarmer.com

1899
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,720
now you can learn more about that game

1900
01:02:37,039 --> 01:02:40,559
um because we have some new stories

1901
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,200
about what you want from it what we

1902
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:45,039
might see in it and that kind of thing

1903
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,039
and we'll also be populating an

1904
01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:49,039
instagram feed and doing a show when the

1905
01:02:47,039 --> 01:02:51,440
new rulebook comes out at the end of

1906
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:52,880
march all of starter sets podcasts are

1907
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,720
available

1908
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,079
on spotify just search starter set

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01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,400
podcast

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01:02:56,079 --> 01:03:01,039
and it's a guide to everything from what

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01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:02,480
race to pick to how to build the city

1912
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:04,160
it's everything you need to know we'd

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01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,480
like to think about learning to play and

1914
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,839
then playing well the game of dungeons

1915
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,760
and dragons and as i've said there's

1916
01:03:07,839 --> 01:03:10,880
also the tales of tarthish podcast that

1917
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,280
runs

1918
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,280
sort of intermittently for two seasons

1919
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:17,119
and there will be more tales of tarthage

1920
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,440
depending on how well behaved my newborn

1921
01:03:17,119 --> 01:03:21,440
daughter is she hasn't arrived yet

1922
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,200
coming this winter

1923
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don't try and find me on social media

1924
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:28,799
personally because i'm not there look at

1925
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:30,559
my work it's by far the more interesting

1926
01:03:28,799 --> 01:03:32,079
sam's a ghost uh

1927
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:34,480
and also yeah and also do you know what

1928
01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:37,119
shout out to my my hosting partner and

1929
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everything good really towards with

1930
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:40,000
regards to dungeon dragons i do ed

1931
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,000
sylvester

1932
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:44,640
who also isn't on social media but is a

1933
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,079
big huge part of those shows and does

1934
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:48,160
way more research and understands the

1935
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:49,680
game way better than i do and is an

1936
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:51,039
infinite fountain of knowledge so do

1937
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,720
check out

1938
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:54,400
if you haven't enjoyed how i address the

1939
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,079
issue of dungeon dragons

1940
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,520
give starters a chance anyway because ed

1941
01:03:56,079 --> 01:03:59,280
might just be

1942
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,880
saving grace

1943
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,520
yeah definitely the amount of times i've

1944
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,200
been like what if he was like the bfg

1945
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,720
and he could you know with

1946
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,000
with all the children and they all fell

1947
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,680
asleep and he was like well what you're

1948
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,039
talking about there is a warlock and

1949
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,400
maybe he's a furball because he's a

1950
01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:14,480
giant that's exactly what i'm talking

1951
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,559
about

1952
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,160
thank you for you know interpreting that

1953
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:20,960
well thank you thank you sam for being

1954
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,850
the b team today uh when ed gets on them

1955
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,640
in the proper episode

1956
01:04:21,850 --> 01:04:26,640
[Laughter]

1957
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:29,039
you're so right

1958
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,720
um no thank you so much that uh to

1959
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:32,400
everyone at home obviously uh all the

1960
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,640
all the links all the pertinent links

1961
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:37,839
will be in the episode description as

1962
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:39,920
per usual so all that's left to say is

1963
01:04:37,839 --> 01:04:42,880
thank you ever so much sam for joining

1964
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:45,200
us today that was uh wow

1965
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:47,760
from from metaphors to

1966
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:50,160
damning indictments yes a lot yeah it's

1967
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:52,559
it's a whole a whole kettle of fish so

1968
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,319
thank you thank you ever so much uh sam

1969
01:04:52,559 --> 01:04:55,359
oh thank you for having me i and i mean

1970
01:04:54,319 --> 01:04:56,720
that from the bottom of my heart it's

1971
01:04:55,359 --> 01:04:58,160
just nice to

1972
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,280
talk about this stuff and not feel like

1973
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,319
you're getting on your soapbox and just

1974
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,920
have a opportunity to talk and um

1975
01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:06,160
if you are a content creator and you

1976
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:09,039
want to come on thinking critically

1977
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:11,760
danilo has the best most accommodating

1978
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:14,720
setup ah that you could ever wish to

1979
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:16,559
have and it's it's it's it makes star

1980
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,760
sets guest episodes look like an

1981
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:19,039
absolute

1982
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,799
joke um

1983
01:05:19,039 --> 01:05:22,480
no it's been really nice to have you man

1984
01:05:20,799 --> 01:05:24,000
and it's been nice to talk it's been

1985
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,760
great i've had a lot of fun and i

1986
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,799
happily come on again either as part of

1987
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:32,640
a couple or single and ready to mingle

1988
01:05:28,799 --> 01:05:32,640
amazing green wristband ready to go

1989
01:05:32,799 --> 01:05:37,200
my secret my success is

1990
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:39,119
for 90 of it having all the gear and no

1991
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:40,640
idea and then you're kind of forced to

1992
01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:42,000
at least have a modicum of an idea at

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01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,880
some point which is where we find

1994
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:44,880
ourselves today so

1995
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:50,880
uh cool well as usual thank you everyone

1996
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:52,720
for listening at home please uh drop a

1997
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:55,520
like a review on spotify because the

1998
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:58,400
things you can do now uh so please do

1999
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,760
that uh and also the other usual avenues

2000
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,880
of showing your appreciation i would

2001
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,680
very much appreciate it and make my

2002
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:05,839
2022. so please go ahead and do that

2003
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:08,319
thank you everyone for listening and

2004
01:06:05,839 --> 01:06:10,799
good night one more thing oh if you're

2005
01:06:08,319 --> 01:06:13,119
creating npcs make five really good ones

2006
01:06:10,799 --> 01:06:15,599
not ten annoying ones

2007
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:16,960
five ones that have aims and intents and

2008
01:06:15,599 --> 01:06:19,039
i've actually took notes of this ames

2009
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,039
intentions drives and desires do five of

2010
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:22,559
those npcs and there's only so many

2011
01:06:21,039 --> 01:06:24,640
regional access you can do anyway so

2012
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:26,240
just give them each one i mean i like

2013
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,520
that i asked a bit is there anything

2014
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,680
we've missed that you want to talk about

2015
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,400
yeah and i don't know didn't pay for

2016
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,039
that

2017
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,160
page your notes notes major notes

2018
01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:36,880
have you got a shredder in that room

2019
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,880
you're in there

2020
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,160
pop them straight in there

2021
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,760
yeah

2022
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,720
and now it's time for the patreon shout

2023
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,920
outs

2024
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:48,799
thank you to robert hartley dm for viva

2025
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:50,880
la dirt league and writer on the dnd the

2026
01:06:48,799 --> 01:06:52,480
logic web series

2027
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:55,280
i would encourage everybody to check him

2028
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,240
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

2029
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,559
twitch

2030
01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:00,960
thank you to optional rule a two-time

2031
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:03,760
guest of the show and a very insightful

2032
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:05,039
and knowledgeable source of information

2033
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:08,039
please check them out at

2034
01:07:05,039 --> 01:07:08,039
www.optionalrule.com

2035
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:13,760
huge huge huge thank you to a great

2036
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:16,240
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

2037
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:18,559
out there making hilarious and

2038
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:20,319
educational dungeons and dragons content

2039
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:22,079
please go and check out his stuff at

2040
01:07:20,319 --> 01:07:24,480
matthewperkins.net where you can find

2041
01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:26,079
links to all of his socials and all of

2042
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,760
his content including his own patreon

2043
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:29,520
which i would very much encourage you to

2044
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:32,400
check out

2045
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:34,480
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

2046
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,000
on twitter for supporting the show if

2047
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:38,599
you need support running your personal

2048
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,799
or business schedule head to

2049
01:07:38,599 --> 01:07:42,559
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

2050
01:07:40,799 --> 01:07:44,640
make that difference between should do

2051
01:07:42,559 --> 01:07:46,400
and done boss it better with support

2052
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:48,720
from cat who will help you get back that

2053
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:50,160
essential time you've been searching for

2054
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,079
if you would like to support what we do

2055
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,799
and get four shout outs a month head

2056
01:07:52,079 --> 01:07:56,319
over to patreon.com thinking critically

2057
01:07:54,799 --> 01:08:00,280
or you can just buy me a coffee at

2058
01:07:56,319 --> 01:08:07,300
kofi.com thinking critically

2059
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:27,520
[Music]

 

Sam Bradley Profile Photo

Sam Bradley

Writer

He was the co-host of the Starter Set Dungeons & Dragons podcast and is the creator of the Tales of Tarthage crime drama podcast. Starter Set - A Dungeons & Dragons podcast serves as a guide to new players trying the game for the first time while providing veteran players with customised ‘homebrewed’ content and discussions on narrative implications of the game.

Tales of Tarthage is a D&D inspired crime drama set in the fictional city of Tarthage. The show follows the lives of four members of an Extraordinary Crimes Unit as they investigate a series of murders in the build up to an election. The show examines the human stories and themes of economic struggle, corruption and the war on crime in an otherwise fantastical setting. It draws inspiration from the work of David Simon, Jed Mercurio and JRR Tolkien, as well as real stories from members of the UK law enforcement community. Its second season concluded in December with season three planned for Summer 2022.

Starter Set Studio is a small content creation platform used by Ed Silvester and Sam Bradley to publish work that complements the Wizards of the Coast Tabletop Roleplaying Game, Dungeons & Dragons.

Their current published works are the Starter Set Manual of Homebrew Heroes which contains four brand new playable races, and the People’s Republic of Aqualibrium Map which allows players to set their own adventures in the city homebrewed during the Making a Metropolis series on Starter Set.

Ed and Sam will be producing a new series of podcasts about the upcoming Marvel Multiverse Tabletop Roleplaying Game in 2022 which will include an explainer show breaking down the game’s mechanics, and a Let’s Play podcast series.