Kickstarter

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 18

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of thinking critically today's topic is

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kickstarter

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined once again by zach

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applewhite from applewhite games thank

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you ever so much for joining us the

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second time zach can you tell us a

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little bit about yourself hey thank you

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so much uh so i'm zach atwood i do the

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marketing for applewhite games i am a

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marketer by profession and i also have a

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passion for helping those who are in

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creative spaces

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do better marketing that is easy

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sustainable and doesn't uh cost a

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fortune

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and on top of that i have a reasonably

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extensive background in kickstarter as

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well

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indeed so on that note for those who

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wish to check out our first episode

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featuring zach way back in season 2

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episode 13 on marketing which includes

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many many tips from zack on that those

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exact topics of uh

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how to market oneself without breaking

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the bank which i think is

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as pertinent than ever at least

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in these times

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uh talking of kickstarter however that

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is the topic of today's discussion so

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what does that mean to you in the

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ttrpg framework

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absolutely so kickstarter has been an

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amazing tool

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to watch small creators who do not have

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a plethora of resources

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or enough time to build up an entire

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business to then build a product to then

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try and sell the product to an audience

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that they may not have access to

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kickstarter has just been an amazing

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tool to watch

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tt rpg board games card games everyone

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in our community

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put themselves out there and create

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things and gain the audiences through

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kickstarter as well as their own efforts

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and be able to at the very least have a

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nice little side hustle that feeds their

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creative energy and sometimes even be to

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the point where they're replacing their

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own income and making a full business

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out of it

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i mean i'm

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stoked for this episode because already

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i am like oh i've learned or i've i've

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got a new appreciation for it because

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for me

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i very much i didn't i didn't see it as

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this

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for better from worse this platform for

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people to approach business in a new way

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perhaps i'm

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too traditionalist in my in my older age

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uh of like

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you know

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how businesses

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what makes a business a business uh and

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for me it is

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not kickstarter which i'm hoping to have

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changed that by the end of today's

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discussion that perception

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but then like i always see it as

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and this is limit you know this is due

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to my very limited experience with with

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the platform in

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it just you know crowd

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crowdfunding is just a way for people to

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to get money this is going to sound

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stupid like i'm making a stupid

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comparison here and it is

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it's a crowdfunding is a way to for

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people to get money rather than a way

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to enable those without the

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infrastructure to produce content now

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that might be a stupid

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comparison to make but to me it means

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quite different things and now i'm you

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know thanks to you i'm now stretch i'm

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gonna approach it in that different way

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i mean right i wouldn't say that's

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stupid at all okay i think that a lot of

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people and you have to remember when

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crowdfunding first came onto the scene

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it came onto the scene through maine

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through major media as a guy making a

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potato salad

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raising thousands of dollars

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okay or people making something i think

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like the pebble watch was one of them

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like yes

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weird technology stuff and oftentimes

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especially in the technology section

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people did not get their money's worth

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if they got anything at all

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so there's definitely a reasonable

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amount of skepticism

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in crowdfunding in general and i don't

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think that you're in a wrong place to

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say

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you know that this was just a way and

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some businesses have certainly made it a

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well we're just going to use this as a

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as a money thing that requires very

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little effort on our part

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and

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then then we'll go make money in other

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places too

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where i've where i've interacted with it

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where i've seen it really grow and

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really be uh useful is the tt rpg space

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where unlike technology it has less

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moving parts less places to go wrong

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less parts that need to be sourced from

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not where you from not your own house

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yes so therefore you get a much higher

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success rate

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as far as people getting what they paid

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for

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and you get a lot less of the gimmicky

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i'm throwing a potato salad party give

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me money

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[Laughter]

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you know

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yeah yeah i think

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we're gonna loop back around to that

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later on the specific not the potato

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salad thing stupidly the ttrpg side of

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things i realized my brain is moving

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quicker than my mouth is sorry

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i mean hey maybe that is content people

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want to hear us talk about and uh

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but um like a new new uh

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a new topic for a future episode just

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salad maybe why not

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what does a cell would mean to you

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my character loves it

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i'm texting i can talk about food all

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day but

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um

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so here's the thing that it

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makes me

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curious as a platform is that you have

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both ends the both ends of the extremes

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of

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individuals and companies on it trying

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to do the same thing so you have

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joe smith in his house being like i want

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to make this

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uh ttrpg or whatever it may be

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you know something very small very you

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know just one person woke up one day and

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made an account and bishop and he's on

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there and he

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will raise whatever it

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ends up raising and then literally on an

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identical same platform you've got

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people like oh i don't know if the top

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of my head critical role

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which is a very permanent example to

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give

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who

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you know or you know even other

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businesses and whatnot yeah simon's huge

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on there who sorry simon uh their their

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board game company i know they've run

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some stuff on there you got jamie

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stegmeier got his start on there he's

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the guy that made wingspan

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um and some other stuff and if you want

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a good resource for getting to know

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kickstarter he's had a kickstarter blog

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going for a very long time oh amazing

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and so yeah there is absolutely uh this

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wonderful mishmash

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you know where you have big guys and

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little guys going in there and it's also

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one of the only places

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where

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it has upward mobility in that range

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now chances are you're not going to

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raise uh hundreds of thousands of

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dollars on your first kickstarter but

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it has been done

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yeah you know surprisingly

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and i'll also say because i feel like

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there might be concern there of like oh

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well how do i compete

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when critical roles on there

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yeah you know and so the first thing

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i'll say is uh one

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customers are there for different

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reasons and backing different things not

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everyone who's backing critical role

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will back you but there are a ton of

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people that didn't back critical role

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because they're more into the kind of

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thing you're creating uh correct me if

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i'm wrong you you've backed a couple of

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like major projects on kickstarter

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correct so funnily enough there's at

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least three i can remember because you

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just reminded me of pebble i have my

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pebble watch uncharged at gathering dust

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i might add in my wardrobe um like

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second edition so way way back when

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you know 10 years probably at this point

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and then frost gloomhaven and frosthaven

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board games which uh i'm still waiting

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for frost haven't so

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right and so there's there's a there's

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something to say there the people who

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backed frosthaven many of them are not

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my customer and they're never gonna be

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my customer because they're using

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kickstarter as a kind of pre-order

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platform indeed for what they would have

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ended up buying on amazon and frankly by

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the way it's an excellent investment

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opportunity if you buy

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some of the stuff on kickstarter you

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could buy two of the same thing

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and sell that other like loomhaven if

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you had bought it with all the stretch

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goals that will never go to market

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okay with all of those kickstarter

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exclusives you can sell that second one

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on ebay and you might make your money

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back

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you know upon delivery so i don't fault

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anyone for doing that the comforting

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part is is that

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i didn't back gloomhaven i i've i've

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backed quite a few campaigns on and

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there is a community out there that

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they're not there for the major things

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because if they wanted that they'd go

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into a walmart or a target or onto

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amazon and they buy it for themselves

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there they're there to support small

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creators who are doing interesting

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things

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and there's people in the middle who do

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both

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yep now i must admit

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frosthaven i mean

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to be to be fair to them

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they haven't been helped by

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the state of the world for the last two

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years uh however i did check my i was

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going through turning up my inbox the

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other day and found my my initial like

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confirm your pledge email from

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frosthaven than it was back in like 2019

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or something that was that's pretty

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that's a long time

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to be so like

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stoked and pumped about something so

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much so that you're like willing to

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commit money not you know at that time

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but down the line you're saying yes

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please

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and then

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still be waiting and yes you know

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provided the world hadn't gone to the

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toilet uh

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it might it might it wasn't for the five

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apocalypses we've had so far

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the conveyor belt of apocalypse is just

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00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,839
rolling through down um

285
00:10:20,079 --> 00:10:23,519
it might be in a bit of a better state

286
00:10:21,839 --> 00:10:25,279
but i can see why that

287
00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:27,279
would turn people off and yes you know

288
00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:28,399
the the creator has been very good with

289
00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:30,320
updates and you know i get we get

290
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:32,720
monthly updates on like 70 or something

291
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,680
at this point it's coming into my email

292
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,040
box

293
00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:35,920
and a lot of it is out of their hands

294
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,839
you know

295
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,640
manufacturing and shipping and stuff is

296
00:10:37,839 --> 00:10:40,000
i

297
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,880
i understand

298
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,120
but that that whole process is like

299
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,200
it's it's still a bit bizarre to me to

300
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,480
be like here's the initial conception of

301
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,519
the product

302
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:54,079
you might get it in two and a half years

303
00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:56,560
well but this this is this opportunity

304
00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:59,839
for david and goliath moment here

305
00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:01,680
because it where we've done kickstarters

306
00:10:59,839 --> 00:11:03,120
we have a turnaround of one to two

307
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:05,360
months

308
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,519
okay one because we have a huge

309
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:10,160
advantage and thank god we had this

310
00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:12,399
advantage during all the apocalypses

311
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,640
we've gone through okay is that we have

312
00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:16,480
all digital rewards

313
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,760
right now we haven't busted into print

314
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,680
yet

315
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,680
all right which means

316
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:23,279
we didn't have to worry about any

317
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,360
shortages any

318
00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:28,240
huge shipping errors

319
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,519
or any of that we were just lucky but it

320
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,079
also means for everyone else who's

321
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:34,240
creating ttrpg materials is that pretty

322
00:11:32,079 --> 00:11:36,399
much everything you're creating even if

323
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,920
you can't give them the physical version

324
00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:40,720
you know even if you were caught up

325
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,600
right now in the state of the world you

326
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:46,560
could still give them the ttrp the ttrpg

327
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,680
as a digital version yeah and chances

328
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:49,360
are if you're

329
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:51,279
doing physical products because we've

330
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,360
sold dice bags as well

331
00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:55,440
but we make them all in house

332
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,360
all right so again as long as there was

333
00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,160
the materials around

334
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,720
we can do the shipping and now instead

335
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:05,040
of having to go through 500 different

336
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,519
middlemen you're just going through us

337
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,360
we actually can have an advantage over

338
00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:11,920
the bigger guys because we can

339
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:14,800
communicate as people because we can

340
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:17,360
source our stuff in-house and it's gonna

341
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:19,120
help us get you what we promised you

342
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,959
faster

343
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,880
you know and that's an advantage that

344
00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:25,680
all the little guys

345
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:28,639
have all right is that we can move

346
00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:30,240
quicker yeah more agile

347
00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:32,560
well i while you were saying that i

348
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:36,079
thought of a question that really i

349
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:39,360
should have opened this with

350
00:12:36,079 --> 00:12:40,720
and it's what editing's for yeah

351
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,399
no i'm not i'm not juggling all that

352
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,170
around that's the ship sale mate we're

353
00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:45,440
sticking with it now

354
00:12:43,170 --> 00:12:46,399
[Laughter]

355
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,440
is

356
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,839
how

357
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,480
how do you get started like i think i i

358
00:12:49,839 --> 00:12:55,040
i guess i have an account because i've

359
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,920
i've pledged and backed stuff

360
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,120
um but then say tomorrow was like

361
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,600
i wanna

362
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,440
do season four of thinking critically on

363
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,399
on kickstarter and

364
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,440
try and get some money for my time where

365
00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:08,720
as

366
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,320
a single

367
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,279
naive individual

368
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:15,040
from the uk how do you go about

369
00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:18,320
making a success

370
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:20,320
yeah so crowdfunding in general and i'm

371
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,760
also going to as i kind of describe the

372
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:26,560
process i'm going to kind of help people

373
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,160
identify pitfalls that i i can help you

374
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:32,240
skirt around okay

375
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:35,519
the first thing that um i would say is

376
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:37,440
figure out what the cost of your idea is

377
00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:40,000
and whether it's it's something

378
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,480
manageable the first pitfall i think

379
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,320
most people fall into is that they see

380
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,880
these like oh my god they waste like

381
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,639
hundreds of thousands of dollars

382
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,160
all right and if i can get i'm going to

383
00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:51,920
use board games because that's like the

384
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,160
one of the most cost intensive ones that

385
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,639
i interact with yeah okay

386
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,720
if i can build a board game and i can

387
00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:00,959
sell it i'm going to get hundreds of

388
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,120
thousands of dollars okay so they said a

389
00:14:00,959 --> 00:14:05,440
ten thousand dollar funding goal they

390
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,279
may or may not have priced out exactly

391
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,639
what they need they poured their heart

392
00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:10,399
and soul they might have even

393
00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:12,160
commissioned some art they've really

394
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:14,240
described it they've hopefully built the

395
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,560
game and they and they have the product

396
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,639
and then it falls short they only raise

397
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:20,880
a few hundred dollars

398
00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:22,320
or they they some of them i've seen you

399
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,079
had a ten thousand dollar goal and you

400
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,320
were able to raise five thousand dollars

401
00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:28,560
but kickstarter is an all or nothing

402
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,720
platform because kickstarter wants you

403
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:34,000
to be responsible and they want you to

404
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,000
come in and say the number you need

405
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,240
to send down not the number you want to

406
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,079
feel successful and comfortable

407
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,079
you know if you say you need ten

408
00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:44,079
thousand dollars then nine thousand nine

409
00:14:42,079 --> 00:14:45,360
hundred ninety nine dollars means that

410
00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:46,720
these people aren't going to get their

411
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,760
product because you didn't have enough

412
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,680
money yeah is what kickstarter assumes

413
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,160
so the first thing that i see people

414
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,639
fall into is that they don't actually

415
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,519
need ten thousand dollars

416
00:14:56,639 --> 00:15:00,320
okay and because you're just starting

417
00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:03,519
out

418
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,839
you have a whole lot of things to learn

419
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:07,600
and mistakes to make before you're

420
00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:10,880
actually good at this

421
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:13,440
because most artists most creators

422
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,959
aren't also marketers as a profession

423
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,360
like i am they're not as fortunate as me

424
00:15:14,959 --> 00:15:19,519
they're not business people as well

425
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:22,160
they're nerds first

426
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:24,240
you know and and business people second

427
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,959
i am fortunate enough to be business

428
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:29,199
first and nerd second

429
00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:31,759
thanks my wife converting me over to the

430
00:15:29,199 --> 00:15:32,560
wonderful world of ttrpgs

431
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:33,759
okay

432
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,240
so

433
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:38,959
the first kickstarter i ran

434
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:43,440
the goal was one dollar

435
00:15:38,959 --> 00:15:45,199
okay i sold personalized poetry

436
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,560
for one dollar

437
00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:51,519
i raised forty four dollars

438
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,360
okay and i gained a small audience of

439
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:55,920
twenty or so people

440
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:58,000
the next campaign that 20 or so people

441
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,880
became 30 or so people

442
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:03,759
all right i eventually and it only cost

443
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:07,040
me about 200 dollars to do

444
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:09,279
i eventually compiled the poems the one

445
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,759
dollar poems from my past kickstarters

446
00:16:09,279 --> 00:16:13,199
into a book and i sold the book

447
00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:14,959
so the first thing that i think people

448
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:18,639
can can do is

449
00:16:14,959 --> 00:16:21,839
really compartmentalize your idea

450
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:25,279
into something as small as possible

451
00:16:21,839 --> 00:16:26,000
yeah all right and what can you do

452
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:29,120
for

453
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,959
a ten dollar hundred dollar funding goal

454
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,720
all right this helps you there's a

455
00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:34,880
natural audience on kickstarter who are

456
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,880
going to happen upon you with no

457
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,720
marketing on your part it'll be small

458
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:42,240
it'll be 14 people

459
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:44,000
okay that's 14 more people than you had

460
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,680
and they gave you your money and you

461
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,399
have their attention because every time

462
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,720
you make a kickstarter update on that

463
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:52,399
project they get an email so you have a

464
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,000
pseudo email list

465
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:55,440
of people who have engaged with you and

466
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,120
given you money in the past and if

467
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,720
they've given you money in the past

468
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,279
their propensity to give you money in

469
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:04,799
the future is really high

470
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:07,039
okay so by starting small you gain

471
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:08,959
confidence you make all your mistakes on

472
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:10,720
something that is smaller that is a much

473
00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:13,360
smaller stake that if you

474
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,280
fail you didn't lose tens of thousands

475
00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:17,039
of people's dollars on something they

476
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,959
didn't get

477
00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:22,959
you know if something goes wrong it went

478
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:24,559
wrong on a one dollar 100 campaign yeah

479
00:17:22,959 --> 00:17:25,199
you know so the first thing i would say

480
00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:26,559
is

481
00:17:25,199 --> 00:17:28,079
make it small

482
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:29,520
what can you do for one dollar can you

483
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,919
write a poem can you i've seen

484
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,960
watercolors of flowers for five dollars

485
00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:37,360
a piece poems about sandwiches i've seen

486
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:40,880
feel free to get gimmicky

487
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:41,840
okay write one a one dollar dungeon

488
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,520
all right

489
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,480
anything you can do just to get

490
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,919
experience under your belt that's value

491
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,799
that's the thing you need to work on

492
00:17:47,919 --> 00:17:52,960
first is your experience okay

493
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:54,080
and then you can build on it from there

494
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,400
and then

495
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,480
what exactly to do it's very simple you

496
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,520
log in you make your account you go to

497
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:04,640
the creator page kickstarter is very

498
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,880
uh consumer friendly as far as creators

499
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,960
go they make it very easily give you

500
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,520
lots of resources and map out here's

501
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:14,080
where to put your story your video do

502
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,760
you have collaborators

503
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,360
try and use your images and you have to

504
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,440
send it you have to connect it to your

505
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:20,960
bank account and then you need to send

506
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,960
it in for review

507
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,760
where the kickstarter team will actually

508
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,760
look at it and say well this is a scam

509
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,440
so yeah you're not allowed okay that's

510
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,679
why you don't get actual scammers on

511
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:34,080
kickstarter almost at all

512
00:18:31,679 --> 00:18:35,840
all right uh you have to put your actual

513
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,200
id in there they want to make sure

514
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,720
you're a human being and that you're not

515
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,240
just gonna waste people's money and then

516
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,799
not be held accountable right

517
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,080
kickstarter is very good about that

518
00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:45,840
and then sometimes we'll give you

519
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,840
feedback so when i first started i could

520
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,360
do a one dollar campaign i tried to do

521
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,480
that because i was selling a one dollar

522
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:55,360
holiday d d special just as kind of a

523
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,640
almost a freebie gift to people who have

524
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,320
supported me

525
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,160
and they said no

526
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,440
you can't do one dollar you need to do

527
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,640
you need to do higher than that one

528
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,440
dollar

529
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,919
they said it feels disingenuous

530
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,760
so make it higher and so so we did but

531
00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:11,760
what can you do for ten dollars

532
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,360
you know and that that's that's the

533
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,520
start that's it

534
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:17,840
um i think a couple of points there so

535
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,000
firstly that is similar to the i think

536
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,160
you called it way back when the content

537
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,400
chop shop and in that context we were

538
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,679
talking about social media content and

539
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,160
how you can

540
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:31,440
turn a tweet in you know or turn a blog

541
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:33,679
post into several tweets turn a youtube

542
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,000
video into several tick tocks and then

543
00:19:33,679 --> 00:19:37,600
several videos tick tocks the podcast

544
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,280
absolutely exactly yeah and so it's the

545
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,200
same trainer thought right that you

546
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,280
could turn a you know maybe several

547
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,360
large projects or one large project into

548
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,280
several smaller projects to build that

549
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,919
ground swell to build that momentum to

550
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:52,480
put that grassroots kind of uh support

551
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:55,200
from the community that that is my jam

552
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,360
that is the model by which i have found

553
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,960
a lot of success for example the

554
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:01,440
kickstarters were due right now we're

555
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:05,440
doing everything digitally we do hope to

556
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:08,720
compile it all into a full volume tt rpg

557
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,640
book with additional materials added in

558
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,640
and then sell the full book and go into

559
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,320
print but now we're gonna have a little

560
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,720
bit of money in the bank

561
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,360
um so that if we make mistakes it's on

562
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,720
our dime and not on our backers

563
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,760
but you but you had something else you

564
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,440
wanted to say i think it was more around

565
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,600
a question of

566
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,520
and we probably talked about this last

567
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,960
time as well but

568
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,640
i think here it's probably more

569
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:36,240
pertinent in that trying to

570
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,159
ascribe

571
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,159
value to

572
00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:42,799
something so is it you know one dollar

573
00:20:40,159 --> 00:20:44,480
is it ten dollars is it fifty dollars uh

574
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:45,760
again so if i was you know as we've been

575
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,799
talking i've been rattling through my

576
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,480
brain

577
00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:50,159
trying to think of like what would i do

578
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,240
what could i you know how would i word

579
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:54,159
it and what would i do and how much of

580
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,960
that and you know that train of thought

581
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:58,240
always ends up at inevitably how much is

582
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,080
that what i mean i've got a type of

583
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,440
number at some point that has to go that

584
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,840
people are going to see and either bulk

585
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,679
at or go oh okay let me get my wallet

586
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,840
right so how do you

587
00:21:05,679 --> 00:21:09,520
how does anyone

588
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,640
people must do it i'm i'm i've never

589
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,400
sold any

590
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,559
you know sold anything independently

591
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,080
before so for me it's a completely alien

592
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:17,280
concept but obviously there are artists

593
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,440
out there there are content creators out

594
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,880
there that do sell physically you know

595
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,720
they're map makers out there that people

596
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,559
such as yourself so it must be something

597
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,080
that you can do you know should i just

598
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:28,720
fall back on my academic business

599
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,120
studies you know my masters in

600
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,280
in in management around like look at

601
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,200
what the competition is and

602
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,640
work around there and

603
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,880
see what kind of budget your customers

604
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,080
have and work around that

605
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,440
yes so

606
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,640
pricing

607
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,760
is so much fun if you're a marketer and

608
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,159
it is the

609
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,960
worst horror story if you're not

610
00:21:48,159 --> 00:21:52,720
so i i completely get your coming from

611
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,840
here's a couple of perspectives you can

612
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,559
take from it

613
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,400
one make sure you're covering your costs

614
00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:00,320
so do a calculation

615
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,960
if you're doing any physical product or

616
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:05,280
require any shipping whatsoever

617
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,840
make sure that you have that cost that

618
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,559
expected cost written down and then pop

619
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,480
at least 20 on top of that and that's

620
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,240
your minimum price

621
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,559
and that is not even making a great

622
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,640
profit that is more that 20 is more in

623
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:21,200
case of a shipping crisis like we're

624
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,200
having right now yeah okay if you're

625
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,480
lucky like me and you're doing

626
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,000
everything in house or you're

627
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,240
collaborating with others who are doing

628
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,919
things in their house as well your only

629
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:34,320
actual cost is labor yeah time okay

630
00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:37,039
so now you're just looking at okay well

631
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,200
here's the product and product alone no

632
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,440
i'm not gonna pay myself for my labor

633
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,120
okay because i really just want to

634
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,360
create this thing and any profit that

635
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:47,440
happens after it is a bonus okay

636
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:49,200
assuming you're working on a side hustle

637
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,039
and not a full pledge business at this

638
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,080
point like most people on kickstarter

639
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:54,320
are

640
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,919
the number one place as you mentioned is

641
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,159
look at competition

642
00:22:55,919 --> 00:22:59,440
look specifically on kickstarter don't

643
00:22:58,159 --> 00:23:01,679
think about what people are doing on

644
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,360
dm's guild that's a different platform

645
00:23:01,679 --> 00:23:05,280
that's like pricing something in walmart

646
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,039
versus target you're not selling in

647
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,400
walmart you're selling a target

648
00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:11,760
okay so look at how prices are on

649
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:16,000
kickstarter

650
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:18,799
and in general i tell people definitely

651
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,799
to start on the higher end of pricing

652
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:22,720
let's say you've done this a one dollar

653
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:24,880
campaign you sold stuff that from one to

654
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:28,000
five dollars okay

655
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,679
and now you're ready to put out a fuller

656
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,559
rpg module

657
00:23:29,679 --> 00:23:34,480
i would say if you're doing non-digital

658
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:35,280
minimum five dollars

659
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,520
okay

660
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,799
i did my first tt rpg was a

661
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:45,279
collaboration it was all hand-drawn art

662
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:48,640
hand-drawn maps and it was not picasso

663
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:50,559
and i told the story and i am not

664
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,520
uh stephen king

665
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:54,080
okay

666
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,520
and so it was still good and i enjoyed

667
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,360
it and other people enjoyed it we sold

668
00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,000
it for five dollars

669
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,760
all right and people bought it

670
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,000
which surprised the hell out of my wife

671
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,960
and is why she joined on and be and we

672
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,240
formed applewhite games okay for five

673
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,279
dollars

674
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:14,320
that needs to be bare minimum digital

675
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:16,400
labor and no no no nothing into it yeah

676
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,679
minimum five dollars it's just worth

677
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:22,000
your time yes okay you just you did the

678
00:24:19,679 --> 00:24:23,039
thing here's five you get five dollars

679
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,200
yeah okay

680
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:28,799
all right i price our ttrpg stuff at ten

681
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,400
dollars full price

682
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:33,440
eight dollars if you're on the early

683
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,760
bird and whenever we go off of

684
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,840
kickstarter and onto the full-blown

685
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,520
market we're probably gonna price around

686
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,840
12

687
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,880
that is based on what people are willing

688
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,360
to pay and to answer the root of the

689
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,080
question of what is anything worth it is

690
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:52,799
worth what people are willing to pay

691
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:56,240
so the market is the person you need to

692
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:58,799
ask and the only way to ask it is to put

693
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,679
a price tag on it and see what happens

694
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:03,520
yep okay and of course

695
00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:05,919
there there just is no true answer have

696
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,320
you ever heard of banksy yeah oh yeah i

697
00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:10,720
mean he's he's a he's a compatriot of

698
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,880
mine so yeah okay so

699
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,240
banksy all right the graffiti artist

700
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,640
just make sure we're talking about the

701
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,120
the right person right yeah wonderful

702
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,640
depending on where he sells his work it

703
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:23,600
can be worth hundreds or thousands of

704
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,159
dollars or it can be worth ten

705
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,320
right you've seen him uh i've i've seen

706
00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:30,000
social media where he takes his graffiti

707
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,520
art and tries to sell it on the streets

708
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,960
of new york

709
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:37,360
and it's worth forty dollars there

710
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,440
but it's worth tens of thousands of

711
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,600
dollars to the the same piece of art to

712
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,640
a different person

713
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,840
okay

714
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,320
and

715
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,400
that that's the whole game right there

716
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,400
all right it's not even about finding

717
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,799
the right price it's about finding the

718
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,760
right person

719
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,600
all right

720
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,760
there are going to be a hundreds of

721
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,880
thousands of people who will say no to

722
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,520
your product

723
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,559
they don't matter it's okay that they

724
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,520
said no

725
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:05,520
all right

726
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,760
that's just not for them

727
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,559
you're trying to find the person

728
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,679
who sees the value and is willing to pay

729
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:13,120
for it

730
00:26:11,679 --> 00:26:13,919
just like banksy

731
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,360
yeah

732
00:26:13,919 --> 00:26:16,640
and obviously

733
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:18,880
people can listen to the marketing

734
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,470
episode to find out how to how to find

735
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,200
those people

736
00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:22,559
[Laughter]

737
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,480
there's a lot of ways and this is this

738
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:26,320
is the other part of uh that's great

739
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,400
about kickstarter is that when you start

740
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,000
small you can start with kickstarter's

741
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,520
audience

742
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,320
you know they have their own audience

743
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,240
you launch people can browse by category

744
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,480
uh oftentimes they're just looking for

745
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,400
what's newest and hopefully you capture

746
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,400
their attention and they say one dollar

747
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,600
for a poem what the hell is this guy

748
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:48,480
thinking and they give you money

749
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:52,080
just to see what happens yeah and then

750
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,679
if you do a good job they come back and

751
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,640
they're there to support you the next

752
00:26:53,679 --> 00:26:58,880
time and that is how we've been able to

753
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,080
build our business is by

754
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,000
showing up

755
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,919
and getting we have an excellent

756
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,720
customer return rate because we perform

757
00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:08,320
excellently for our customers and that

758
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,240
makes all the people you're reaching out

759
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,000
to on social media

760
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,000
as you create content which again you

761
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,840
can listen to the marketing episode to

762
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,080
really get into how to create social

763
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,120
media content and get people's attention

764
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,240
over time

765
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:22,480
all the people who were on your

766
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,159
kickstarter audience show people who

767
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,600
were just being introduced to you via

768
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:27,840
social media

769
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,240
how much authority you have how much

770
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,679
relevance you have and how trustworthy

771
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,200
you are

772
00:27:31,679 --> 00:27:36,799
i love that

773
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:38,399
there's still this basic tenant of

774
00:27:36,799 --> 00:27:39,360
which is the same for like traditional

775
00:27:38,399 --> 00:27:41,120
business

776
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,440
and crowdfunding businesses that if you

777
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:44,880
obviously if you provide good content

778
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,000
people will come and people will come

779
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,919
back

780
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,640
and that doesn't change you know from

781
00:27:47,919 --> 00:27:52,480
from some guy selling some beans uh in

782
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,720
his backyard to

783
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,880
his critical role making seven billion

784
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,880
bazillion pounds on

785
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,640
crowdfunding it's like right the content

786
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,559
is has to be good

787
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,919
and that's fine and you'll get customers

788
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:06,000
the content has to be good the

789
00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:09,039
communication has to be good the product

790
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,919
has to be good you you have to to if you

791
00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:11,760
don't

792
00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:14,480
really enjoy what you're doing or what

793
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:17,039
you're putting out it's going to show so

794
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:20,000
another another comment there is don't

795
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:21,120
just make what you think people will buy

796
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,440
okay

797
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,880
make something that you're proud of

798
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,679
selling

799
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,159
i i was proud of the fun i had selling

800
00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:31,200
one dollar poems again i'm not robert

801
00:28:30,159 --> 00:28:32,399
frost

802
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,559
okay

803
00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:38,720
but my poems were fun and i enjoyed them

804
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:39,919
and the people who who paid for them

805
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,240
enjoyed them

806
00:28:39,919 --> 00:28:44,720
and so that all comes out in the content

807
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,320
and it comes out in the interactions and

808
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,200
that that's going to help you build a

809
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:51,919
really true authentic brand as well

810
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,919
which is actually something that is very

811
00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:55,760
dear to my own heart that that word you

812
00:28:53,919 --> 00:28:57,919
use there that authentic

813
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,720
brand that's something that's very you

814
00:28:57,919 --> 00:29:02,559
know high on my list of uh

815
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,039
corporate social

816
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:07,919
targets is you know identity is

817
00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:11,279
is that authenticity i'm super keen on

818
00:29:07,919 --> 00:29:12,960
remaining uh humble and you know it is

819
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:14,080
it's just a one-bat it's just me at the

820
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,640
end of the day so i quite like to

821
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,840
leverage that

822
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,360
that uh

823
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,200
you know it's just it's just some dude

824
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,960
in england to try to make a podcast so

825
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,039
you know i can i can definitely see why

826
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,760
that authenticity there is

827
00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:30,240
is key especially when there's so many

828
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,640
competitors to be frank out there and on

829
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,799
the platforms and stuff that that range

830
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,880
from from all sorts which you know

831
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:38,159
brings up another excellent point okay

832
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,440
because you said a few things there that

833
00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:41,200
i want to touch on

834
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,600
you said one you're just one guy in

835
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,760
england and two you brought up the big

836
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,840
competitors and so i wanted to bring up

837
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,039
another thing that people can do because

838
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,360
let's say

839
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:54,000
you're really good at art or you're

840
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,320
really good at the writing the planning

841
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,840
the tables or you just have all these

842
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,320
ideas for monsters and you can make

843
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,440
their stats but you're not an artist

844
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,720
yeah right how do you make a tt rpg

845
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,159
without art

846
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,919
it's really hard okay yeah okay then you

847
00:30:08,159 --> 00:30:10,880
gotta at least give them a stick figure

848
00:30:09,919 --> 00:30:13,120
right

849
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,640
again i got started actually

850
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,880
collaborating

851
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,760
okay someone mentioned on twitter that

852
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,760
they wanted to make a tt rpg

853
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,360
and sell it and that they were open to

854
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,240
collaborators which twitter is an

855
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,840
excellent place um to just be introduced

856
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,919
to people who are interested in what

857
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,039
you're interested in and you can make

858
00:30:29,919 --> 00:30:33,039
this happen

859
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:35,600
and so i had no

860
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:38,559
artistic ability whatsoever these guys

861
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,480
we had a map guy we had an art guy and

862
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:42,799
what this does is now you're not taking

863
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,039
on the goliaths alone you're not on

864
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:47,760
kickstarter alone now you have three

865
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:50,640
guys who each have their own audiences

866
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:53,200
that they can kind and their own friends

867
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,520
that they can reach to and you're

868
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,600
collaborating on a project that makes

869
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,559
the whole thing a little less scary for

870
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,399
one

871
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:03,120
because you're not doing it all alone

872
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:05,360
yeah and it also will make your product

873
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,880
better because now you have people who

874
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,240
were helping you

875
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,559
and three

876
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,000
now you can all share each other's

877
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:14,320
audiences

878
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,880
you tag each other you share each other

879
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,480
you're building a small cohort i haven't

880
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,320
pursued that myself because i'm lucky

881
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,760
enough to have a live-in artist and a

882
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,200
writer

883
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,000
being my wife

884
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,760
but that is absolutely a business model

885
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,080
that you can go into and i've seen work

886
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,519
for some people is just collab collab

887
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,279
collab collab

888
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:35,039
worry about the product worry about the

889
00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:36,799
brand don't worry about the money yet

890
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:38,320
because you're not you're building a

891
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:41,039
name for yourself

892
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,440
and as long as your costs are covered

893
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:44,799
then that's enough because eventually

894
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,159
you're going to have the audience that

895
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:51,120
you and the friends the connections to

896
00:31:48,159 --> 00:31:53,519
really pivot and really take a go at

897
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,960
something bigger and grander that you

898
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,880
that is for yourself and that you can

899
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,039
make money on

900
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,720
i'm gonna go and i'm just gonna

901
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:02,000
go and find a new girlfriend who can do

902
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,120
art because then that'll take that box

903
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,159
to me

904
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,600
be right back while i break up my

905
00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:07,600
current one uh two seconds later

906
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,039
um yeah no

907
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,840
to be clear i mean it's no secret to

908
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:15,120
anyone that i am

909
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:19,519
ineffective wow look what a nice

910
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,519
political term to use to myself there uh

911
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,000
i i like that i'll start calling myself

912
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,919
an ineffective artist yeah i didn't know

913
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,360
why that word came to me but i kind of

914
00:32:27,919 --> 00:32:32,080
in love with it now

915
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:34,240
it's it's it's it sounds so much better

916
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,799
than complete than being a complete

917
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,399
garbage artist yeah yeah there's some

918
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:39,840
words there's like an implication there

919
00:32:38,399 --> 00:32:41,440
but everyone's too polite to dig a

920
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,760
little deeper no that's it now that's my

921
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,760
new uh

922
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:48,420
[Music]

923
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:55,760
[Music]

924
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,679
okay cool thank you so much for the

925
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,320
advice so far it's been you know this is

926
00:32:57,679 --> 00:32:59,039
all

927
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,960
well

928
00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:03,039
for any given set of

929
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,600
kickstarters that have started there'll

930
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:07,760
be times 100 more people that have

931
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,440
thought about it and haven't wanted to

932
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,360
start or didn't know where to start were

933
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,960
too scared to start for whatever reason

934
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,120
which is why i think discussions like

935
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,039
this are very powerful because

936
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,000
if we can you know reach at least one

937
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:19,760
person

938
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,679
who at one point thought oh should i do

939
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,360
it or don't really know where to begin

940
00:33:21,679 --> 00:33:26,080
i'll just forget about it for now but

941
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,960
then we can change that mindset to oh

942
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,039
actually

943
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,519
oh yeah i do i do chat to that guy on

944
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:33,039
twitter who's produced a map let me hit

945
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:33,840
him up and see if we can

946
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:35,039
and then

947
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,880
you know they'll do they'll do that leg

948
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:38,640
work for me and suddenly

949
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,480
they've gone from

950
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,840
creating nothing into maybe creating you

951
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,360
know something adding adding something

952
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,039
to the universe and that would be

953
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,440
fantastic and that's where i think the

954
00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:48,799
power of today's show specifically is is

955
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,200
hopefully in

956
00:33:48,799 --> 00:33:52,399
creating more better content for the

957
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,760
universe wow

958
00:33:52,399 --> 00:33:54,270
wow couldn't have sounded more arrogant

959
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,080
now

960
00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:58,480
[Laughter]

961
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:01,039
you're welcome universe uh

962
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,820
yeah i'll take an iou for creating some

963
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:04,720
content for you here yeah no worries

964
00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:06,559
[Laughter]

965
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,119
i look forward to the pearly gates at

966
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:10,639
the end of it all yep no worries right

967
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:12,079
i've earned it right

968
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,119
yeah

969
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:16,000
christ

970
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:18,879
uh anyway so yes um

971
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,480
another question i had around and again

972
00:34:18,879 --> 00:34:22,800
we touched on it in the last episode

973
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,480
around promotion self-promotion in

974
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,320
artists and we would have talked at that

975
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,079
time around

976
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,280
the content shop shop and twitter and

977
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:31,040
facebook and all the different social

978
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,919
medias

979
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,000
i wanted to reframe that question

980
00:34:33,919 --> 00:34:38,320
specifically within the scope of

981
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,919
kickstarter are there any tools i know

982
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,839
you mentioned that there's you know an

983
00:34:39,919 --> 00:34:44,240
embedded audience who will go you know

984
00:34:41,839 --> 00:34:46,240
daily and search via new kickstarters

985
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:47,119
and stuff like that is there any other

986
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:49,119
things

987
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:52,079
specific to

988
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:53,919
running a kickstarter when it comes to

989
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,919
promotion and

990
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:58,400
selling your product i guess it's not a

991
00:34:55,919 --> 00:35:00,960
product selling a set of products or a

992
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:04,720
service that that's yeah that's all up

993
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,160
to what what exactly you're selling so

994
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:08,400
to get to the root of the question being

995
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,320
like how do you promote the kickstarter

996
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,320
first and foremost make sure you have a

997
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,079
good kickstarter page because it doesn't

998
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,680
matter how many people get to the page

999
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:16,400
if you can't convert them once they're

1000
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,920
there

1001
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,720
it's all for not

1002
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,640
all right so yes you'll you'll have an

1003
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:25,359
inherit audience and that is an

1004
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:29,119
excellent like test market of how do i

1005
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:31,599
how am i appearing is my pricing good

1006
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:34,640
those are right there

1007
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:36,720
for smaller projects like the one dollar

1008
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,320
yeah i don't like i don't even recommend

1009
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,480
you don't even need to blast out to your

1010
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,079
friends and family in my view

1011
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,359
unless you you think they'd be

1012
00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:48,400
interested or find it fun or uh my my

1013
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:52,480
mom my wife found it hilarious to give

1014
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:55,200
me um funny topics to write poetry on

1015
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,119
and so i i had fun uh sharing it around

1016
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,440
like here torture me and see what

1017
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:00,560
happens and see what happens

1018
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,839
you know

1019
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,920
that that reminds me the old like

1020
00:36:01,839 --> 00:36:05,440
fairground you know where you'd pay to

1021
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,440
fling a sponge so maybe this is a

1022
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,119
uniquely british thing but i don't know

1023
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,720
when you'd pay a pound you know a fate

1024
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:12,160
to throw a sponge at somebody in the

1025
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:14,079
stocks or something it's that that has

1026
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,640
reminded me of that like pay me a pound

1027
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:19,040
and put me make me do some stupid poetry

1028
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,359
or something like that like

1029
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,920
right and so i i had to rhyme with the

1030
00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:25,280
word booger nugget okay okay

1031
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,119
and i

1032
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,119
pulled it off somehow

1033
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:30,960
all right but uh

1034
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:32,880
but so share around with your friends

1035
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,880
and family if you like if it's something

1036
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,040
you genuinely think that that they might

1037
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,960
get a kick out of that they might enjoy

1038
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,599
or that they might know other people who

1039
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,560
would get a kick out of or enjoy it all

1040
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:46,320
right and for but for that first one i

1041
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,880
think it's less about gaining your

1042
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,800
audience it's more about making sure you

1043
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,359
have the kinks worked out a little bit

1044
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,200
first and starting to grow an audience

1045
00:36:53,359 --> 00:36:58,160
naturally on kickstarter

1046
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,920
now hopefully while you're doing that

1047
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,680
and while you're doing other stuff

1048
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:04,240
i do recommend you do

1049
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,880
non-kickstarter related content

1050
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:08,720
that is in the audience that you're

1051
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,800
wanting to reach so

1052
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:12,400
you can go back to the marketing podcast

1053
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,200
but i will give a quick rundown right

1054
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,240
now

1055
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:18,480
my marketing philosophy is what can i do

1056
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:22,000
while i'm sitting on the toilet

1057
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,040
okay i started by just tweeting every

1058
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,119
day

1059
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,640
eventually i was able and i'm just

1060
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:30,800
tweeting funny gifts memes retweeting

1061
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,960
you know i'm just moving and shaking

1062
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,640
with other people on twitter and i'm

1063
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,000
only doing that at minimum once a day

1064
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,400
okay

1065
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,599
fast forward a year later i can now read

1066
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,400
those tweets

1067
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:47,359
and now they're on tick tock where i now

1068
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:49,839
have over 6 000 subscribers

1069
00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:52,320
and now i'm moving all my tick tocks

1070
00:37:49,839 --> 00:37:54,480
over to youtube because youtube shorts

1071
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:57,440
is trying to do what tick tock is doing

1072
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,680
and if i post any vid a regular

1073
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,920
full-length video on youtube and i don't

1074
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,320
shout it out anywhere i might get two

1075
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,800
views but taking them from tick tock to

1076
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:09,119
youtube shorts where youtube really

1077
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,599
wants people to like youtube shorts so

1078
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:14,560
they're boosting completely unknown

1079
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:17,280
people like myself on youtube i'm able

1080
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,400
to get a few a couple hundred thousand

1081
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,720
views

1082
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,880
and uh a handful of subscribers i i'm

1083
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:24,880
only in the hundreds you know but

1084
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,880
considering that i haven't shared my

1085
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,320
youtube on any other social media

1086
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,400
platforms

1087
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,520
that's fantastic

1088
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:36,240
and so take what you can do

1089
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,160
start there build on that

1090
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:41,359
and that's going to help you gain your

1091
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:44,240
audience it also really can't hurt for

1092
00:38:41,359 --> 00:38:46,000
you to go out and support other people

1093
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,240
one because you'll learn from their

1094
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,920
failures and their successes if they're

1095
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:52,000
running kickstarters like the ones

1096
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,880
you're planning to run in the future

1097
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,480
and two because perhaps down the line

1098
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,839
there will be some reciprocity and

1099
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,599
you'll make some friends and genuine

1100
00:38:57,839 --> 00:39:01,599
connections

1101
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:04,640
beyond that you could go into paid

1102
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:06,400
advertising but unless you have

1103
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,560
money in the bank that you're willing to

1104
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,839
lose i wouldn't do it

1105
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,400
you know i

1106
00:39:09,839 --> 00:39:15,119
i focus as much on free i've only

1107
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,760
started doing paid advertising on

1108
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:20,079
facebook for the last campaign we did

1109
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,240
and this campaign and i'm not at a place

1110
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:24,560
where i can really advise you on it

1111
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:26,640
because i'm still working out the kinks

1112
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,640
um i think you know we're lucky to live

1113
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,320
in a day and age where

1114
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,160
there are several avenues several

1115
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,720
vectors of free

1116
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,000
advertising and marketing and

1117
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,920
we should all do our best to leverage

1118
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000
those as much as possible

1119
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,079
and you know when you when you're not as

1120
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,760
fortunate as you are as you said before

1121
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,599
like to come from that business oriented

1122
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,079
background where you're aware of

1123
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:50,560
spending money to making money to use a

1124
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:52,960
trite platitude but that that kind of

1125
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,880
methodology no investment is the correct

1126
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,200
damn for it but it was you know it was a

1127
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,520
bit rich for me even to i know this

1128
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,839
isn't advertisement specifically but to

1129
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,520
buy obviously i wanted to produce

1130
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:06,160
as we said earlier on something to be

1131
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,800
proud of and i want to be proud of the

1132
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,680
show and part of that was having decent

1133
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:14,560
audio quality so i was like i want to

1134
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,839
invest in a decent you know a decent

1135
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,599
hardware rig

1136
00:40:15,839 --> 00:40:19,440
and i and i did so

1137
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:21,200
but that's very much because i'm i'm you

1138
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,920
know a fortunate position in my life to

1139
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,640
be able to avoid much uh you know afford

1140
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,960
it

1141
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,960
but it was still a bit of a

1142
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,160
a bit of a bit of a bit of pill to

1143
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,160
swallow to be like this is just some

1144
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:35,040
money that i'm not going to see any

1145
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,480
any returns on apart from yep that i'm

1146
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,720
going to be maybe slightly more proud of

1147
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,839
the content and advertising is very much

1148
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:41,680
the same

1149
00:40:39,839 --> 00:40:42,880
and even more of a gamble in some cases

1150
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,640
because it might

1151
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,880
not pay off at all

1152
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,480
especially when it's you know

1153
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,760
a newbie such as myself like i wouldn't

1154
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,000
know how to

1155
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:54,400
get the formula right for you know an

1156
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,880
effective facebook

1157
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,920
promoted post like the you know the seo

1158
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,319
you should use the wording you should

1159
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,920
use the calls to action you should use

1160
00:41:00,319 --> 00:41:04,319
yes i can leverage a bit of my academic

1161
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,079
experience but in terms of like

1162
00:41:04,319 --> 00:41:08,000
the facebook marketplace for adverts in

1163
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:10,160
2022

1164
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,760
come listen to podcasts please it would

1165
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,920
be as you know

1166
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,720
as effective as i could get it

1167
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,920
right and so that's uh that'll all be

1168
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:22,240
better after you've sold it a little bit

1169
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,160
you know i didn't like i said i've run a

1170
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:26,319
total of i think 17 kickstarter

1171
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,119
campaigns wow and it wasn't until after

1172
00:41:26,319 --> 00:41:31,680
the 15th one that i said you know what i

1173
00:41:29,119 --> 00:41:34,000
think i'm ready to pay to sell this

1174
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,280
wow you know i think i have the images i

1175
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,440
think i have

1176
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,920
the knowledge about my product i think

1177
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:43,760
i've sold it enough times

1178
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:46,400
that i can uh sell it to an audience who

1179
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,319
knows nothing about me

1180
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,359
okay because that's it it's interruption

1181
00:41:48,319 --> 00:41:52,160
marketing

1182
00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:53,200
those people are not on facebook to find

1183
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,599
you

1184
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,440
if you're advertising to them they are

1185
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,680
on facebook just to interact with their

1186
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,640
groups their friends and you just happen

1187
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,400
to show up and say hey i got a thing if

1188
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,160
you want money for it

1189
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,920
and if you're going to do that

1190
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,760
you got to be good at it

1191
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,520
you know and i

1192
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,280
professional marketer i'm still not

1193
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,880
great at it it doesn't mean other people

1194
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,079
could there are people who were able to

1195
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,359
hop on and just get it and i applaud

1196
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:21,839
those people

1197
00:42:19,359 --> 00:42:23,359
but uh if i was you know in in your

1198
00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:25,680
position that you talked about earlier

1199
00:42:23,359 --> 00:42:27,599
you know just talking about investing

1200
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,720
i want to reassure people that even if

1201
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:31,359
you wanted

1202
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:33,760
you just needed it to be a podcast

1203
00:42:31,359 --> 00:42:36,800
okay you weren't going you can't do a

1204
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:39,520
blog you don't have it in you to to do

1205
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,839
gimmicky stuff poetry and you just

1206
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:44,400
really want to create a podcast or

1207
00:42:41,839 --> 00:42:45,760
something i encourage everyone

1208
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,319
to remember

1209
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:51,760
that some of the greatest men in the

1210
00:42:48,319 --> 00:42:54,400
world's history who moved the world uh

1211
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,640
in ways that affected generations

1212
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,160
did so with ink and quill and

1213
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,200
candlelight

1214
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:03,200
okay if you have a smartphone

1215
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,760
you have a better tool than most of the

1216
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,599
most influential people in history ever

1217
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,240
could have dreamed of

1218
00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:14,160
and it might not be what you

1219
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:15,920
want in the end but it is what you have

1220
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,079
and it is better to work with you ha

1221
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,079
with what you have to create something

1222
00:43:18,079 --> 00:43:21,119
than to dream and end up creating

1223
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:23,520
nothing

1224
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:25,920
now you you were lucky you had

1225
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,560
the resources and you had the completely

1226
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,480
correct mindset to say i'm going to put

1227
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,960
this money in but it's because it's what

1228
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:35,440
i believe in not because i expect a

1229
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,520
return on investment anytime soon

1230
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,440
you know and so if you had that

1231
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,119
mentality i would say then absolutely go

1232
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,480
for it as long as you know what you're

1233
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:44,880
getting into

1234
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,280
then absolutely go for it but for those

1235
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,760
who don't have the res the resources

1236
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:52,319
all i can say is get scrappy

1237
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,040
you know i i did a podcast for a little

1238
00:43:52,319 --> 00:43:56,960
bit it got views i recorded it on my

1239
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,319
phone it just took too much time for me

1240
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,160
so i dropped it

1241
00:43:58,319 --> 00:44:02,720
because i need what i can i have two

1242
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,800
kits and a job and at some point at one

1243
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:05,680
point i had two kids a job and college

1244
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,560
yeah

1245
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,599
all right

1246
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:12,319
my time is super constrict i can't edit

1247
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:13,520
audio i can't i don't have that yeah so

1248
00:44:12,319 --> 00:44:16,800
i dropped it

1249
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:18,880
doesn't mean that if you have the time

1250
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,440
all you really need to start anything

1251
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,760
right now is a smartphone yeah yeah i

1252
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,119
must say not that i use the mobile

1253
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,119
versions of the

1254
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:28,720
my podcast host

1255
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:29,920
but i do know that pretty much all of

1256
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:32,319
them have got

1257
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,160
direct from phone uploads

1258
00:44:32,319 --> 00:44:35,599
like i think i've made it literally

1259
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,359
they've reduced as many walls as

1260
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:39,760
possible between

1261
00:44:37,359 --> 00:44:41,920
somebody talking and

1262
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,680
the audience on the other end listening

1263
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,280
has been reduced and reduced and reduced

1264
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,640
until it's just like a couple of clicks

1265
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:51,119
away yeah it's not ideal but it gets it

1266
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,359
gets it done yeah and done is better

1267
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:54,960
than ideal in the short term because you

1268
00:44:53,359 --> 00:44:56,960
just need to get it done

1269
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,079
you can have the greatest manuscript in

1270
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,240
the world

1271
00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:03,520
written but if it stays in your desk

1272
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:05,839
drawer it has zero value

1273
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,839
you know and and so i say this loud and

1274
00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:10,480
i know i'm interrupting you i'll i'll

1275
00:45:07,839 --> 00:45:12,480
stop after i say this i really just say

1276
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,520
this because too many people say no

1277
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,760
before they've even tried because they

1278
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:21,040
think that they don't have the tools

1279
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,480
that they need and they just haven't

1280
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,359
unlocked the part of their brain that

1281
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,160
says

1282
00:45:23,359 --> 00:45:25,920
that

1283
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,480
no they do not need a professional

1284
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:32,240
recording studio to start a podcast

1285
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,839
they just need the time and a smartphone

1286
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:35,920
yeah you know and i just want to empower

1287
00:45:33,839 --> 00:45:38,000
everybody to remember that they if they

1288
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,560
have the passion the time and the

1289
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,480
smartphone that there is a lot that they

1290
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,800
can accomplish

1291
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,560
yeah absolutely you know and to

1292
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,440
piggyback off the back of that you know

1293
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,400
when i

1294
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,760
started

1295
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,640
i didn't have anything it was literally

1296
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,319
just my home you know pc because i'm a

1297
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,920
historically a traditional pc gamer and

1298
00:45:54,319 --> 00:45:57,839
stuff like that so i already have

1299
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,280
that set up rather than my mobile phone

1300
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:00,960
uh maybe it's an age thing aren't they

1301
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:04,480
uh but anyway

1302
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:08,480
i didn't start in a studio i didn't have

1303
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,920
my gear i didn't have any idea at all no

1304
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,119
gear no idea

1305
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,359
and

1306
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:15,520
this is where we find ourselves today uh

1307
00:46:13,359 --> 00:46:17,920
so but it was very very similar like i

1308
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,440
just used what i had at home

1309
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,280
the free the free

1310
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,359
you know set audio recording stuff the

1311
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,440
free audio editing stuff the free

1312
00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:28,560
podcast hosts and

1313
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,280
it works i say confidently

1314
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,760
no

1315
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,599
you you i have seen you continue to grow

1316
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,920
your content continues to get better

1317
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:37,359
your guests continue to be

1318
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,560
of uh

1319
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:41,680
i think overall averaging higher profile

1320
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,800
and i would say you're on the right

1321
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,160
track

1322
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:47,440
oh you just complimented a number of

1323
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,440
guests as well sounds good

1324
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,319
the the one thing the only stupid joke i

1325
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:53,839
want to say about like having obviously

1326
00:46:52,319 --> 00:46:55,200
i said i've invested in some better

1327
00:46:53,839 --> 00:46:57,839
quality gear so now i'm not just using

1328
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:00,240
like my gaming mic for how i'm talking

1329
00:46:57,839 --> 00:47:02,160
to you right now right pros

1330
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:04,240
i like technology and it's another piece

1331
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,839
of kit to learn and to understand and a

1332
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:08,880
cool little snazzy thing to sit on my

1333
00:47:05,839 --> 00:47:11,440
desk cons turned me into an audio snob

1334
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,800
so

1335
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,200
things i'd never used to notice before

1336
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,119
or care about and now i'm like well they

1337
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,440
didn't record that on a on a microphone

1338
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:20,559
that was uh yeah connect oh there's an

1339
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,000
edit there

1340
00:47:20,559 --> 00:47:23,760
sloppy

1341
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,400
i'll use that as an excuse not to learn

1342
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,240
new things like oh i could learn violin

1343
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,640
but then i wouldn't like every other

1344
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:32,720
violinist and so that's all that's

1345
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,000
holding me back

1346
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,280
well that probably says more about me

1347
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,839
than it does about learning anything

1348
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,319
else but

1349
00:47:36,839 --> 00:47:42,640
yes my bed to bear

1350
00:47:40,319 --> 00:47:44,000
but yeah no

1351
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,280
it has i mean at the very least this

1352
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,400
discussion has made me start to think

1353
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,559
about

1354
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,760
kickstarter as a

1355
00:47:48,559 --> 00:47:53,359
viable

1356
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:56,559
platform of selling

1357
00:47:53,359 --> 00:47:58,240
my my product you know it's

1358
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,920
requires

1359
00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:01,839
some thought but again i wanted to add

1360
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:03,119
here i've just realized that

1361
00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:04,839
off of what you were saying earlier on

1362
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:07,040
like i have now a

1363
00:48:04,839 --> 00:48:07,920
semi-established base of

1364
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,319
you know

1365
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,160
colleagues and listeners and and friends

1366
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:13,599
and supporters

1367
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,599
of the show

1368
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:17,359
who i can now leverage should i wish to

1369
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:18,559
go on any of those kickstarter endeavors

1370
00:48:17,359 --> 00:48:20,800
i can say hey

1371
00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:21,920
i had an artist on once let me reach out

1372
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,200
to them and see if they want to

1373
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:27,200
collaborate or i had uh in fact i am i'm

1374
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,880
collaborating on a non-kickstarter piece

1375
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,599
of content creation at the moment but

1376
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:33,119
that's through a previous guest

1377
00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:35,119
and can i give you a piece of advice on

1378
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:37,920
that of course so

1379
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:38,800
the best way to do that

1380
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,760
is

1381
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:44,079
it's i call it just a soft ask

1382
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,599
all right is that in say instead of

1383
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:47,520
saying hey

1384
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:49,520
would you back my kickstarter

1385
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,960
when you've got the page you get a

1386
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,920
preview link

1387
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,520
okay

1388
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,280
and you can send that preview link to

1389
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,720
people and you say hey listen this is my

1390
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,160
first kickstarter i'm a little nervous

1391
00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:00,319
about this i've talked with you in the

1392
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,319
past and i value your opinion can you

1393
00:49:00,319 --> 00:49:04,400
please look at this and then just tell

1394
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:06,240
me give me feedback

1395
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,319
okay what do you like what do you not

1396
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:09,760
like one your kickstarter page will

1397
00:49:08,319 --> 00:49:12,079
become better

1398
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:15,040
two you now have people who have

1399
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:16,800
invested themselves in it first

1400
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,559
before ever even thinking about giving

1401
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,359
you money and you haven't asked them for

1402
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:23,680
money so now you're you haven't like

1403
00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:26,319
altered that relationship indeed you

1404
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,400
know now now you get to like maintain

1405
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:31,040
and you get to be the authentic person

1406
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,640
you desire to be right because you

1407
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,319
haven't augmented your relationship

1408
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,480
you've said can you be the friend that

1409
00:49:34,319 --> 00:49:38,240
you are and look at this for me if you

1410
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,599
don't give me a dime that's fine i just

1411
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:41,440
want your opinion because that's going

1412
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:43,920
to be the most valuable thing at the end

1413
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,359
but i will also say that chances are

1414
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,359
because they've invested themselves in

1415
00:49:45,359 --> 00:49:49,200
this a little bit by giving you that

1416
00:49:47,359 --> 00:49:52,720
critique they've probably followed the

1417
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:55,280
page from that link that they are likely

1418
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:56,240
to if not back you at least shout you

1419
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,000
out

1420
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:00,240
you know because

1421
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,559
how now that they've worked on it even a

1422
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:04,319
touch even just reading a little bit or

1423
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:05,359
watching the the video or looking at the

1424
00:50:04,319 --> 00:50:08,960
images

1425
00:50:05,359 --> 00:50:11,040
now it's a semi reflection of themselves

1426
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:13,520
and they want you to they want it to do

1427
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,839
well yeah plus hopefully they're your

1428
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,920
friend and they want you to do well just

1429
00:50:15,839 --> 00:50:20,640
just in of itself yeah absolutely

1430
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,880
absolutely i really i really love that

1431
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,960
that approach actually and it is it

1432
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,960
makes it a lot less silly and even as a

1433
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,680
person who has to sell things for a

1434
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,680
living oh it sucks

1435
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:34,559
no one likes asking for money you have

1436
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,720
to do it all right but uh if you can

1437
00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:38,960
find a way to

1438
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:41,280
maintain a relationship beyond the

1439
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,119
business aspect of it that's always my

1440
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,520
way to go

1441
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:47,440
yeah no absolutely it is

1442
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,880
i love maintaining that as you said that

1443
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,760
keeping that relationship dynamic the

1444
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,280
same is super important and

1445
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,599
sometimes you know although it's robust

1446
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,720
as friendships can be they are also

1447
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:58,240
sometimes

1448
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:59,359
fragile when it comes to that kind of

1449
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,599
stuff like everyone's been in that

1450
00:50:59,359 --> 00:51:03,520
situation when it's you're you're eating

1451
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:05,200
dinner out at a restaurant with a number

1452
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,160
of you know group of people maybe some

1453
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,720
you don't know when it comes to

1454
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,319
splitting the bill and it's immediately

1455
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:11,680
the air of the conversation has changed

1456
00:51:10,319 --> 00:51:13,920
because it's like

1457
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,680
do we do it evenly do we pay and waste

1458
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:18,400
you know a lot of time going around

1459
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,079
doing it individually and i don't really

1460
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,680
know you that well so i don't really

1461
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:23,520
want to pay for like it's

1462
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,720
you're already in that awkward world so

1463
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,880
yeah it's

1464
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,800
despite everybody's best intentions and

1465
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:31,200
most people being nice people there is

1466
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,520
always that you know so yeah anything

1467
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:36,800
you can do to mitigate that is i'm

1468
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:38,000
completely on board with one final thing

1469
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,880
i wanted to talk about which is very

1470
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:43,440
unique to kickstarter is kind of stretch

1471
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:45,040
goals so yeah so

1472
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:48,640
so far a lot of our discussion as a

1473
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:50,400
result has assumed that there is a a

1474
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,559
product or a service

1475
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,440
something at the end you know one

1476
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:55,920
main

1477
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:58,480
item one main piece

1478
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,040
had a stretch goal was kind of fold

1479
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,800
into that discussion

1480
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:05,040
with regards to

1481
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:07,119
ttrpg so say like

1482
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:10,079
i want to create a book of

1483
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:11,680
100 fleshed out npcs

1484
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:12,640
literally just improvised off the top of

1485
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,760
my head

1486
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:17,599
no you know any similarities to

1487
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,079
current live or dead kickstarters is

1488
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:22,559
entirely coincidental um

1489
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:24,319
but then how do you

1490
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:25,839
what part in the process do those

1491
00:52:24,319 --> 00:52:27,359
stretch goals come in

1492
00:52:25,839 --> 00:52:29,040
and

1493
00:52:27,359 --> 00:52:30,720
is there any kind of like

1494
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,240
maybe conflict of interest is too strong

1495
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:34,160
a word but again maybe it's that

1496
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:36,559
disingenuity

1497
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,559
folds in there to be like oh maybe i'm

1498
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:40,160
well it's the classic you know like dlc

1499
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:41,680
complaint that video games have found

1500
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,119
themselves in you know back in my day

1501
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,800
you'd pay for a video game and you'd get

1502
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:46,079
all the content and now they keep half

1503
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,680
the content away from you make you pay

1504
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:51,359
for it is it are we in the same you know

1505
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,599
it can can the same argument be leveled

1506
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:55,040
at stretch goals i'm not i please don't

1507
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:56,800
please tell me you know if i'm i'm

1508
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,480
pushing any lines or you know making it

1509
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,960
making it awkward for you at all but i'm

1510
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:04,720
this is a sincere question from my point

1511
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:06,880
of view no i i've heard this uh and i i

1512
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,240
get it because i think that the point of

1513
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,119
view being like

1514
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:12,880
well

1515
00:53:09,119 --> 00:53:15,119
if this game is going if it was meant to

1516
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,440
have uh metal coins instead of cardboard

1517
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:18,960
coins and if it was meant to have all

1518
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,040
the story like why are you selling me

1519
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,200
half a product

1520
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,960
you know is the point of view the way

1521
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,480
first off let's talk about the creation

1522
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,920
of script of stretch goals and then i'll

1523
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,160
talk about the messaging around stretch

1524
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,720
goals yeah so first off stretch goals on

1525
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:35,200
our end happen very naturally because

1526
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:38,160
you start with something more than but

1527
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:40,000
around a minimum viable product yep

1528
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,920
right which is what do you need for it

1529
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,280
to be functional for it to not be a

1530
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,640
clunky mess

1531
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:49,440
okay for it to be consumer ready yeah

1532
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:51,680
but not the best it can be the problem

1533
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:54,400
is the best it can be

1534
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,319
is this big wide vast open thing the

1535
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,079
best thing it could be is to have an app

1536
00:53:56,319 --> 00:54:01,040
for it but i'm not an app developer and

1537
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:04,079
no one i don't not don't have that money

1538
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:07,359
all right so best it can be

1539
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:09,119
is just too big of a term so especially

1540
00:54:07,359 --> 00:54:11,119
if you're you're putting this in your

1541
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:13,760
your cost is your labor

1542
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:15,520
all right you need to limit yourself to

1543
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,400
something that you say finally you know

1544
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,800
what it's done enough

1545
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:23,040
i would want it to be better but i

1546
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,720
haven't already invested hours of my

1547
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,800
time and energy

1548
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:28,960
and if they're not willing they need to

1549
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,880
be willing to pay for this

1550
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,640
because if i just keep putting more and

1551
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:35,200
more and more it'll never get done it'll

1552
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,640
never get launched and is the value are

1553
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,160
they going to actually pay more for all

1554
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:41,040
the value i'm putting in here do i now

1555
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,200
have to up my pricing and so on

1556
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:45,280
okay what happens with our thing

1557
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,880
naturally is that we think okay here's

1558
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,119
the maps we need here's the characters

1559
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,839
we need we'll start out with a couple

1560
00:54:49,119 --> 00:54:52,799
pieces of character art these couple of

1561
00:54:51,839 --> 00:54:53,760
maps

1562
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:57,359
and

1563
00:54:53,760 --> 00:55:00,480
here's the story and this is the thing

1564
00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:02,559
all right everything that that's more

1565
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,400
than that is the bonus that's the

1566
00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:06,640
stretch goal would it be nice to have

1567
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,920
more maps and more character arc of

1568
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,119
course it would

1569
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,359
and that's what the stretch goals are

1570
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:13,119
for so as we're making it we're

1571
00:55:11,359 --> 00:55:14,640
naturally thinking of yeah we want to do

1572
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:16,960
that but we don't have

1573
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:19,040
we we can't just use all our resources

1574
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:21,200
right now let's get the kickstarter and

1575
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:24,079
we'll make that a stretch goal because

1576
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,520
does it actually do i actually need it

1577
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:26,799
for them to play through the dungeon do

1578
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,640
i need them to have that piece of

1579
00:55:26,799 --> 00:55:30,880
character art no

1580
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:33,359
they can still play through the dungeon

1581
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,119
the art is an added extra flavor thing

1582
00:55:33,359 --> 00:55:37,280
that makes it more immersive and more

1583
00:55:35,119 --> 00:55:39,359
fun and it does add value

1584
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,760
so let's make them part if they really

1585
00:55:39,359 --> 00:55:44,480
want that value they'll tell us by

1586
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,880
helping us reach that stretch goal

1587
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:49,280
you know and then as far as like what

1588
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:52,319
what do you add to ttrpg that's that's

1589
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:55,119
what we've usually done is more maps

1590
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:58,079
more character art um and we've also

1591
00:55:55,119 --> 00:56:00,799
done side quests where they're not

1592
00:55:58,079 --> 00:56:03,040
necessary to the plot but it's more to

1593
00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:06,240
playful playthrough and the location

1594
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,480
that we've uh created around

1595
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:11,359
you know or more interest npcs to

1596
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,799
interact with uh there's just always

1597
00:56:11,359 --> 00:56:15,839
more there's endless amounts more and

1598
00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:18,160
i've never seen uh people in our

1599
00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:20,799
industry have trouble coming up with

1600
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,960
more ideas it's a creative industry

1601
00:56:20,799 --> 00:56:24,559
indeed yeah all right so you need to

1602
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,640
limit yourself because if you just keep

1603
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:28,160
on saying well it's not if i can create

1604
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:31,200
more it must create more it'll just

1605
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:32,640
never get done i think if currently if

1606
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,640
i'm wrong along with the minimum viable

1607
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,160
product we can use the moscow rule of

1608
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,760
you know must-haves should haves could

1609
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,079
have some wood halves so i guess that

1610
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,920
could be a useful tool for somebody out

1611
00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:43,680
there and the bare minimum viable

1612
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,520
product would be all the the must-haves

1613
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,680
and then the stretch goals can be the

1614
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,119
coulda woulda shoulda's on top

1615
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,440
and i'll also say like uh here's a

1616
00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:52,880
perspective what do you do when if

1617
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,880
you're creating something for your own

1618
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:58,720
group what do you do because i don't

1619
00:56:54,880 --> 00:57:01,200
create character arts and maps and uh

1620
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:03,680
several plot points and npcs i make up

1621
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:06,160
most of my stuff on the fly

1622
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,400
you know i have maps in my head or or i

1623
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:10,160
have it laid out but have i made it

1624
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,480
graphically appealing to a consumer

1625
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:16,319
audience no and do i play it and still

1626
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,040
have fun and my table has fun absolutely

1627
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:19,359
so

1628
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,280
chances are

1629
00:57:19,359 --> 00:57:23,599
and this is true for every creative

1630
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:26,000
person chances are you're being too hard

1631
00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:26,799
on yourself yeah absolutely yeah you

1632
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,839
know

1633
00:57:26,799 --> 00:57:32,400
chances are and chances are

1634
00:57:29,839 --> 00:57:34,240
that you're giving people something a

1635
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,680
lot more than they would have ever made

1636
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,440
for themselves

1637
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:39,040
and that's the that's the value you need

1638
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,920
to start with that's that's your

1639
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,920
cornerstone build from there yeah you're

1640
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,559
your own worst critic as they say and

1641
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,359
that is something i'm still

1642
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:48,880
like

1643
00:57:47,359 --> 00:57:50,480
in the early days of the the audio

1644
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,359
production for this show it was very

1645
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:55,280
much like i went through it millisecond

1646
00:57:53,359 --> 00:57:59,119
by millisecond of the fine-tooth comb

1647
00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:00,400
editing and they're only now like 70

1648
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:02,079
episodes in

1649
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,480
i am learning to be like you know what

1650
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:06,000
i'm just i'm just gonna i miss that edit

1651
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,559
and i don't i'm just gonna let it go i'm

1652
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:10,000
just gonna move past and keep on editing

1653
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:11,359
the rest of the show

1654
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,440
and

1655
00:58:11,359 --> 00:58:16,000
honestly it hasn't

1656
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:17,440
impacted the final product at all the

1657
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,720
only thing is i've had to grin and bear

1658
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,400
it a couple of times but of course that

1659
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:24,000
process is getting easier as i'm like

1660
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:26,079
nope leave that it's fine move on

1661
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,000
because you also if you burn out and you

1662
00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:29,520
and you end up not creating a product at

1663
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,240
all and now you've done the worst thing

1664
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,760
you could have done precisely yeah yeah

1665
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,760
and it is it is

1666
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,839
don't sweat the small stuff other

1667
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,720
platitudes but it is it's that burrito

1668
00:58:37,839 --> 00:58:42,160
method of like just concentrate on the

1669
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,440
on the big ticket items that have the

1670
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:46,319
most impact

1671
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:49,359
editing out one harsh s in an

1672
00:58:46,319 --> 00:58:50,799
hour long episode is nobody cares anil

1673
00:58:49,359 --> 00:58:52,880
like

1674
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:54,880
just because that that's exactly it's

1675
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:57,359
just like when in the marketing podcast

1676
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:59,359
where i talk about bad content doesn't

1677
00:58:57,359 --> 00:59:01,760
get seen because that's

1678
00:58:59,359 --> 00:59:04,319
the way of bad content is that uh it's

1679
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:07,599
very similar in this like that that hard

1680
00:59:04,319 --> 00:59:08,880
s is a fraction of a second yeah keep

1681
00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:10,799
going they're going to keep scrolling

1682
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,480
past your content if it's bad they're

1683
00:59:10,799 --> 00:59:14,799
going to keep going they probably won't

1684
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,640
even notice it's like missing one key in

1685
00:59:14,799 --> 00:59:19,359
a piano recital

1686
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:22,160
you hear it loud and clear yeah your

1687
00:59:19,359 --> 00:59:25,280
grandma didn't notice yes

1688
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:26,799
yep precisely yeah

1689
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,079
well um

1690
00:59:26,799 --> 00:59:30,319
is there anything that you wanted to

1691
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:32,160
talk about that we haven't had the

1692
00:59:30,319 --> 00:59:36,079
chance to yet you know what can i just

1693
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:38,400
go through a quick fast fire best

1694
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:40,799
practices for anyone who's looking to

1695
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:43,119
launch kickstarter absolutely please all

1696
00:59:40,799 --> 00:59:44,559
right absolutely so first thing at the

1697
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:47,200
end of a kickstarter you send out a

1698
00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:49,119
survey you are only allowed to ask for

1699
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,799
what you need to fulfill so for us we

1700
00:59:49,119 --> 00:59:54,319
only ask for an email address to send

1701
00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:56,400
your digital rewards but in an update

1702
00:59:54,319 --> 00:59:58,000
you can also give another survey that

1703
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,079
says let us know what you thought of

1704
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,839
that final product by the way do you

1705
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:04,000
want to sign up for our email list or

1706
01:00:01,839 --> 01:00:07,599
follow us on social media that's a great

1707
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:09,599
way to re-engage your people and connect

1708
01:00:07,599 --> 01:00:10,960
with them outside of kickstarter because

1709
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:13,920
you don't want all your eggs in one

1710
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:15,760
basket number two is you can have

1711
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,359
creative rewards for

1712
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:20,400
all these things you can have people

1713
01:00:17,359 --> 01:00:23,200
name npcs in your thing or add their dog

1714
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:25,119
or you can have a villain named danilo

1715
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:27,359
you know if you pay a little extra

1716
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:28,960
people love to put themselves into the

1717
01:00:27,359 --> 01:00:31,280
thing that they're helping to create on

1718
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:33,680
kickstarter so if you give them a little

1719
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:36,400
extra room and they're willing to pay a

1720
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:38,880
surprising amount more sometimes to just

1721
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,640
put themselves in the story or in the

1722
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,440
product in some way

1723
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:45,040
number three early birds which is where

1724
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,760
people who show up earlier in the

1725
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:49,839
campaign they get to pay a little less

1726
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:51,200
because they're they're right there and

1727
01:00:49,839 --> 01:00:53,920
they're really helping you they're your

1728
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,839
super fans right it used to be you could

1729
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,359
only make that an amount of people like

1730
01:00:55,839 --> 01:00:59,440
the first 10 people

1731
01:00:57,359 --> 01:01:01,680
you can make that 48 hours you can make

1732
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,960
that 24 hours listen we've done that

1733
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,480
game changer

1734
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,720
game changer because now it's not

1735
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,160
excluding the 10 people who might not

1736
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,359
have even been our super fans they might

1737
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,440
have just seen that we launched on

1738
01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:12,880
kickstarter never heard of us before and

1739
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,160
they're first in line ahead of the

1740
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,799
people who've been supporting us for the

1741
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:19,599
past 15 campaigns that's not fair

1742
01:01:16,799 --> 01:01:23,359
nope 30 people get it because

1743
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:25,040
48 hours and after it cuts out it's done

1744
01:01:23,359 --> 01:01:27,280
and you don't have any empty slots so

1745
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:29,040
you don't look bad it's wonderful

1746
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,440
another talk on

1747
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,200
complete game changers kickstarter has a

1748
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,760
new add-on feature

1749
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:37,839
as you build new campaigns new

1750
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:40,079
kickstarters any products you had from

1751
01:01:37,839 --> 01:01:42,880
the past one if you're like us and it's

1752
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:44,960
digital you can say hey you can buy the

1753
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:47,200
last one that was um ten dollars full

1754
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,040
price it's now nine dollars

1755
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,640
and you can add on which makes their

1756
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:53,440
baskets bigger

1757
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:55,359
which is going to get you funded faster

1758
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,920
and you're reselling stuff that's

1759
01:01:55,359 --> 01:01:59,039
already been created no extra work to

1760
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,720
you

1761
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:02,799
an amazing feature that was complete

1762
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:05,119
game changer for us and is a great

1763
01:02:02,799 --> 01:02:07,520
tactic as you continue to grow

1764
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:09,680
thank your backers with a message every

1765
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:12,240
whenever you get a new backer it helps

1766
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:14,640
them stay engaged it helps you introduce

1767
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,319
yourselves and it doesn't take much and

1768
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,960
i know it doesn't feel

1769
01:02:16,319 --> 01:02:20,720
like it does much but a quick thank you

1770
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,640
actually feels like a lot for these

1771
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,599
people who are taking a bit of a chance

1772
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,559
on you

1773
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:27,520
all right

1774
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:29,839
track your links you can use bitly or

1775
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:31,359
kickstarter referral and if you have any

1776
01:02:29,839 --> 01:02:33,280
questions on that it's really intuitive

1777
01:02:31,359 --> 01:02:36,480
but you can youtube it and it'll teach

1778
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:39,039
you and last of all is i recommend

1779
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,400
before creating a kickstarter back a

1780
01:02:39,039 --> 01:02:42,799
kickstarter

1781
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,799
all right at least one this is also the

1782
01:02:42,799 --> 01:02:46,480
social media thing you shouldn't start

1783
01:02:44,799 --> 01:02:49,280
creating content on a platform you

1784
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,200
haven't consumed content on that's like

1785
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,400
someone who's never seen a movie trying

1786
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,079
to make a movie

1787
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:56,480
it wouldn't go well

1788
01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:59,520
all right be a consumer before you're a

1789
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:02,000
creator and your content will come out

1790
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:04,319
better i promise

1791
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,640
and that's that's the fast fast track

1792
01:03:04,319 --> 01:03:10,240
for you save it re-listen if you need to

1793
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:12,160
amazing thank you so much

1794
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,599
that was that was fantastic because we

1795
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,039
really back loaded the episode there

1796
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:17,039
with like

1797
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:18,640
so for those who stayed here and

1798
01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:20,880
listened to the end they are going to

1799
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,480
get the most value yeah yeah they're the

1800
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,880
super fans they've been here the whole

1801
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:29,280
time i wanted i wanted to reward them

1802
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:29,280
yay super fans yeah amazing thank you

1803
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,200
um

1804
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:34,960
well awesome so with that with all those

1805
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:37,039
awesome details in mind

1806
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,160
is is there anything you would like to

1807
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:40,240
promote

1808
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,680
oh boy would i

1809
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,839
so as

1810
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:45,280
will not be a surprise

1811
01:03:43,839 --> 01:03:47,359
we're lucky enough to be running a

1812
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:49,200
kickstarter at the time it's really

1813
01:03:47,359 --> 01:03:50,079
fortunate i didn't actually plan it this

1814
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:53,520
way

1815
01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:55,359
at the time of this podcast being out

1816
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:58,559
we are running a kickstarter until the

1817
01:03:55,359 --> 01:04:01,440
end of february so if you're listening

1818
01:03:58,559 --> 01:04:03,440
and it's past february sorry you'll just

1819
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:06,319
have to follow us on kickstarter and

1820
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:08,559
watch for our next release everyone else

1821
01:04:06,319 --> 01:04:10,079
this is your last chance so hop on it's

1822
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:11,520
journey to the center of aragarth it's

1823
01:04:10,079 --> 01:04:13,599
campaign meant for high level

1824
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:15,599
adventurers to challenge their abilities

1825
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:17,680
level up your characters and have at it

1826
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:20,880
comes complete with maps character art

1827
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:22,720
and a new ooze sub race that i'm really

1828
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,079
excited about and of course you can

1829
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,559
follow me on

1830
01:04:24,079 --> 01:04:29,200
any social media almost under apply

1831
01:04:26,559 --> 01:04:32,000
games or zack applewhite well my

1832
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,799
interest is peaked at the ooze sub race

1833
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,520
so

1834
01:04:32,799 --> 01:04:36,400
yes that was kaelin's idea and it i love

1835
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,920
it

1836
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,240
no spoilers you'll you'll have to go to

1837
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:42,000
the kickstarter yeah of course uh and as

1838
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:44,160
usual the link to that will be in the

1839
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:46,799
episode description as will the link to

1840
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:48,720
zach's previous episode marketing as as

1841
01:04:46,799 --> 01:04:50,000
we said a couple of seasons ago uh which

1842
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,599
i would encourage every any of the

1843
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,839
content creators out there to check that

1844
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:55,920
out as well it pairs very nicely with

1845
01:04:53,839 --> 01:04:57,920
this episode i must say

1846
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,680
otherwise the only thing left to say is

1847
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,079
thank you ever so much for for joining

1848
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:04,880
me again today zach it was a very very

1849
01:05:02,079 --> 01:05:07,440
insightful episode always a pleasure i

1850
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:09,920
am an american at heart i love to hear

1851
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,440
myself talk uh and if anyone else out

1852
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:13,920
there wants me on their podcast reach

1853
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:16,240
out please

1854
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,599
i need i need more guests uh who love to

1855
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,920
hear themselves talk because it makes my

1856
01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:22,960
life so much easier

1857
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:25,760
so no thank you zach thank you everybody

1858
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:28,240
for listening at home i hope you all i

1859
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:31,280
mean i know you all took out as much

1860
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:32,640
uh value from from this show as i did

1861
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,119
please do check out all the links in the

1862
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,520
episode description to the kickstarter

1863
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:39,839
kickstarter and all their socials

1864
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:41,839
as are all of mine including my patreon

1865
01:05:39,839 --> 01:05:43,360
and kofi and who knows maybe one day

1866
01:05:41,839 --> 01:05:44,480
there'll be a kickstarter in there too

1867
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,720
[Laughter]

1868
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,640
otherwise thank you all for listening

1869
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,240
and good night

1870
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,119
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1871
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,280
outs

1872
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:56,240
thank you to robert hartley

1873
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:59,359
dm for viva the dirt league and writer

1874
01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:00,880
on the d d logic web series

1875
01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:03,680
i would encourage everybody to check him

1876
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,720
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

1877
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,960
twitch

1878
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:09,440
thank you to optional rule a two time

1879
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:12,240
guest of the show and a very insightful

1880
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,440
and knowledgeable source of information

1881
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,440
please check them out at

1882
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,440
www.optional.com

1883
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:22,559
huge huge thank you to a great friend of

1884
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:25,440
the show matthew perkins who's out there

1885
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:27,760
making hilarious and educational

1886
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,839
dungeons and dragons content please go

1887
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,559
and check out his stuff at

1888
01:06:28,839 --> 01:06:32,960
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1889
01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:34,480
links to all of his socials and all of

1890
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,160
his content including his own patreon

1891
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,000
which i would very much encourage you to

1892
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,880
check out

1893
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,799
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1894
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:44,079
on twitter for supporting the show

1895
01:06:42,799 --> 01:06:47,079
if you need support running your

1896
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:49,280
personal or business schedule head to

1897
01:06:47,079 --> 01:06:50,960
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1898
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:53,039
make that difference between should do

1899
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,799
and done boss it better with support

1900
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:57,119
from cat who will help you get back that

1901
01:06:54,799 --> 01:06:58,640
essential time you've been searching for

1902
01:06:57,119 --> 01:07:00,480
if you would like to support what we do

1903
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:03,200
and get four shout outs a month head

1904
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,720
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1905
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:08,710
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1906
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:15,730
kofi.com thinking critically

1907
01:07:08,710 --> 01:07:36,000
[Music]