July 8, 2022

History


This episode I'm joined by Andrew & Vesna Gronosky from Shewstone Publishing, who leverage their extensive knowledge to discuss the implications of having a "history" in your TTRPG setting. The different lifespans of races can have a profound impact in their culture and what they consider important enough to record; what happened "a long time ago" to a human can be relatively "yesterday" to an elf. We can use these schisms to drive worldbuilding and roleplay opportunities. Fortunately for us, real life has volumes and volumes of inspiration, and most of the heavy lifting has already been done over the span of human history.

  • 02:40 - Building on What We Know
  • 09:42 - Cultural Differences
  • 17:19 - History is Relative
  • 23:03 - The Times They are a Changing
  • 45:06 - Conveying "Facts"
  • 49:20 - Making History

Find Andrew & Vesna via Shewstone Publishing on:

Find Thinking Critically online: https://www.thinkingcritically.co.uk

References:

Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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welcome thinkers to season 4 episode 5

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of thinking critically today's topic is

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history and as usual some announcements

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firstly i just wanted to really really

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really thank you all my regular

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listeners there's a really cool group of

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you out there and it's what makes me

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keep coming back every two weeks and

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dropping a new episode so it really is

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super appreciated i love that you guys

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are all out there and keep coming back

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for more every week so thank you so so

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much and also by the time this episode

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drops the finale of my time loop

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campaign well maybe the finale maybe the

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panorama session uh

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you know what the nd is like but

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hopefully the finally of my outer wilds

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inspired time loop campaign arc i'll be

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streaming on tuesday the 12th of july at

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8 00 pm british summer time

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so tune in to twitch.tv thinking

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critically if you want to see how the

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group

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resolve their chronological conundrum

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otherwise let's get on with the show

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by andrew and vesna

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gronowski from shoestone publishing

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thank you ever so much for joining us

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today can you tell us a little bit about

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yourselves

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oh thanks for having us we run a small

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gaming company in boston massachusetts

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in the usa and we've both been gaming

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role-playing games for a long time

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about when did you start

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somewhere uncomfortably long ago i think

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uh early 90s would be yeah let's just

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say we've both been gaming for uh more

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than 30 years we play dungeons and

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dragons regularly we both like called

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cthulhu and we played a historical

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fantasy game called rs magnica that's

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actually how we met oh wow amazing

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thank you so much for joining us today

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today's topic is history so what does

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that mean to you in the d d and wider

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ttrpg framework

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there are

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several

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well-acclaimed

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historical role-playing games called

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cthulhu is one of the best known

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and vesna was actually in the medieval

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history program

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at a major university in boston um when

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we met

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this is true it's a hobby now though i

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do something

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that you can actually eat awful yeah

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so

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you know we were both playing our mega

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at the time when she was a history

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student

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and i really fell in love with ours

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magicka because

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you know i knew only

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what

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history they teach european history they

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teach in school

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which is all the dull bits

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and i remember

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going to an encyclopedia and looking at

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the history of france in the 13th

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century and there there was no france

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in the 13th century right and half of uh

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what is now france was part of the

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angelman

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um so-called empire

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so it was actually ruled from the

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english throne

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and of course this is where the hundred

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years four comes from

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and there's just so much

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there's so much depth there once you

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start

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looking at history and

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a famous game designer i think it was

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ken height said if you want to make your

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your game really interesting the first

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thing you should do is set it on earth

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because

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your players will automatically

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be familiar with it they'll bring some

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preconceptions maybe but they'll have

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the sense of place that i think we

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strive for so if you're playing in a

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purely fictional fantasy world then

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i think you can draw on history

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to

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really enrich

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that world and to enrich your stories

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george r martin i think drew heavily on

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historical patterns i think he

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simplified

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actual historical dynastic struggles for

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game of thrones but

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you know you really get a sense that he

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had a library card right that

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that he knew how these he's these played

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out in in the real world

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so dan is your

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dnd game in a homebrew world or are you

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using one of the major

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campaign settings no no it is it was all

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homebrew because i was foolish and

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arrogant in my young age of six six

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years ago

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and thinking i i could i want to make it

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all i want to do it all from from the

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ground up more of a control thing you

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know i want to be in

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control of all the little bits and bobs

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that make up this place which

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was

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somewhat naive

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always made my own worlds for d d as

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well so i feel your pain

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but when you say

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to have control

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it reminds me of something that puts

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people off i think about history which

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is that history has a lot of ugliness in

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it

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there's a lot of racism a lot of cruelty

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just atrocities and so on and

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i thought long and hard about this

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critically uh

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while i was writing a historical game

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and what i want to say to the audience

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is

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a modern setting has all those same all

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the same risk

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all the same ugliness the world is still

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human nature hasn't changed

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so

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it's an editorial choice

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of what

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dark side of society what dark side of

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human nature you want to show

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and the fact that you're drawing from a

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period 500 years ago

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doesn't require you to bring in

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more unpleasantness than you would if it

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were modern

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and in fact i think that's generally

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true of using history in gaming um

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i know back when i was in history grad

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school we used to have this event which

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was called bad historical movie night we

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would watch a historical movie and a

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whole room full of historians would rip

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that thing to shreds while having adult

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beverages

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it was a great time except for the one

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time that somebody got a little bit too

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drunk and started yelling in old english

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but anyway

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i progress

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fun times but i think

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it's easy to pan historical movies and

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to try to really stick to the source

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material

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but

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the beauty is that you don't have to in

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a fantasy world or really in any game

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you can you can pick and choose you can

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pick and choose the things that will

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make for the fun part and all the things

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that maybe aren't true and that you

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wouldn't want to mention in an academic

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paper or a dissertation

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can be central and true in your world

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and i find that very very appealing

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by the way it also makes historical

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research more fun for me personally

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because i came at it from the other end

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right i was doing academic research and

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those are huge books and sometimes very

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boring topics but when you're

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having some thoughts about what could be

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happening in your game world and then

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you're starting to read up history that

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you think might be able to support

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building it and giving it more depth and

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nuance suddenly it's more interesting

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because you have a purpose and it's

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creative

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it's not just

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memorizing a bunch of stuff or reading

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some dry old

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books

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no i'm wondering what your

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your grad school advisors d d world

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would be like when you open a chest full

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of coins

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right

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he would he would have a story for each

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coin

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that's in there

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although i i have

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academic credentials history is

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not one of them i'll be

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as transparent as right now my my my

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history education

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started and ended in secondary school so

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when i was 16 and now i feel bad talking

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to trained professionals

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i'm an amateur okay you're an amateur

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professional

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so yeah i i'm not like

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my my knowledge of history is very

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limited in that

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you know i always remember my mum

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telling me that she didn't like america

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because america doesn't have any history

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versus england which has like hundreds

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and hundreds of years more and that's

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that's pretty much my

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in my my

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global context don't say that boston

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that's why i'm doing it with you like my

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safe space with you guys or sat in my

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home over here on the other side of the

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atlantic so yeah

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oh you know this is this is another way

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that you can bring history into a game

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um

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andrew visited my hometown in germany

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now that's that's a university former

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university city the university moved to

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a different town now

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in america the 200 and a bit years of

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history that they have are cherished and

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when you have something historical you

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put a plaque on it and you pretty much

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preserve it as a time capsule almost as

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much as you can

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now when he visited the town where i

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grew up he saw the house where you know

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gauss the mathematician wrote his

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dissertation it's a dirner kebab shop

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and

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you know at least as far as i'm

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concerned when you have a game that's a

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choice you can make is history in an

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area going to be enshrined is it

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something that people hold sacred that

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they try to turn into little museums and

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you can't really go there or is it you

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know well now they're selling i don't

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know food out of their street food

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pretzels

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it makes me wonder if different races in

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a fantasy world would have a different

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attitude to history you know elves might

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say well that was only 300 years ago

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yeah that's not history

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i love i love this world build like when

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it comes to this level of well-building

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i love it because a i'm always the worst

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at thinking of it or it's way that the

276
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,000
car has left the station

277
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,600
way before i've actually gone oh that

278
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,200
would have been a good idea but also

279
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,040
because it brings in those other like

280
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,160
you can almost like bunny hop through

281
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,480
what is the culture like here but then

282
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,880
how would that be impacted by say for

283
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,680
example how long a species lives and

284
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,920
that is

285
00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:54,000
that interaction between a you know a

286
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,920
race that lives 1000 years versus a race

287
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,839
that lives 100 years is interesting in

288
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,200
of itself just the dynamic there let

289
00:10:57,839 --> 00:11:00,800
alone when you

290
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,480
fold in the stuff we've just been

291
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,800
discussing like

292
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,240
this is a statue here to somebody and a

293
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,880
human might be like oh okay when was

294
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,959
that like a couple of centuries ago no

295
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:14,480
like

296
00:11:10,959 --> 00:11:17,279
a couple of like a million years ago

297
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,959
i imagine going to a party somewhere and

298
00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:21,600
this elf getting really drunk and

299
00:11:18,959 --> 00:11:25,279
telling me you won't believe what julius

300
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:29,079
caesar told me at this party

301
00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:29,079
he got so hammered

302
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,920
yeah yeah

303
00:11:42,399 --> 00:11:45,920
see i love doing the show for reasons

304
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,760
like this because now i'm like oh i need

305
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,200
to start thinking about next next place

306
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,760
they're going to go what's going to be

307
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,200
there what does that mean and there are

308
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,120
you know it's like

309
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,639
environmental storytelling boom there it

310
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,320
is trying to leverage my video game

311
00:11:56,639 --> 00:12:00,880
knowledge there and it took way longer

312
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,120
than i did like uh where you just have

313
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,279
those little tidbits and like that maybe

314
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,880
you go to a city and there aren't like

315
00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:08,160
you describing vessel but maybe there

316
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,600
aren't any

317
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,959
historical artifacts because they just

318
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,320
don't care and they build on top build

319
00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:14,399
on top building top build on top and if

320
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:17,440
you go into the basement of a donald

321
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:19,120
kebab shop there'll be like reams of

322
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,120
architectural foundations that they're

323
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,440
just like oh that's just where we keep

324
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:26,240
the donners like that's just where

325
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:29,279
the pit is dry out like

326
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,560
which is fantastic to to think of yeah

327
00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:32,560
but you mentioned

328
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:34,800
you mentioned the game of thrones and

329
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:36,959
all that i think that's that's also that

330
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,600
you know the bigger historical picture

331
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:42,800
is also worth talking about especially

332
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,639
some of the dynastic stuff too

333
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,959
yeah that's true that's one of the one

334
00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:50,320
of the ideas that brought with me um

335
00:12:46,959 --> 00:12:52,959
we gave a seminar at gen con um a couple

336
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,079
of times and we change up the topic

337
00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:56,560
every year

338
00:12:54,079 --> 00:12:59,760
we call it beyond battles overlooked

339
00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:01,760
history for world builders and um

340
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,680
one of the one of my favorite

341
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,720
stories was

342
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:08,560
the

343
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,760
marriage in spain of isabella of

344
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:12,800
castillo

345
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:15,120
and ferdinand of paragon

346
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,519
because i played

347
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,320
the video game crusader kings 2 which is

348
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:24,079
a dynastic strategy game and i actually

349
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:26,000
did this i actually unified spain

350
00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:27,120
by marriage

351
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,680
and

352
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,760
i i tell you you know in history books

353
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:33,680
that or in history class they just said

354
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,760
this in one sentence oh and

355
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:37,760
this princess marry that prince in that

356
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:43,760
unified spanish no

357
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:43,760
that was hard that took a lot of work

358
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,839
and

359
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,560
that's a perspective that's really

360
00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:52,560
useful for world building is you know

361
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:55,519
there's an opportunity here right but we

362
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:58,160
have to do this to make it happen or we

363
00:13:55,519 --> 00:14:01,040
want to prevent it because together

364
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:04,160
aragon and castillo would

365
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:06,480
just steamroll portugal which they kind

366
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,480
of did

367
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:14,000
but i don't remember too many of the

368
00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:16,240
details of that i mean i know that

369
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,199
actually i know a couple of things which

370
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,680
is that

371
00:14:17,199 --> 00:14:22,000
isabella was not the primary heir

372
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,120
castile but there was a succession

373
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,480
struggle

374
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,279
and

375
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,040
the

376
00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:31,600
air that

377
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,800
one faction was advancing got bumped off

378
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,880
and

379
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,760
the only

380
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,560
blood can that that faction had

381
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,600
was isabella they had the upper hand but

382
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,720
their their pretender was eliminated or

383
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,880
was killed

384
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,079
and i said well all right well we'll go

385
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,839
with her

386
00:14:48,079 --> 00:14:52,000
and they won

387
00:14:49,839 --> 00:14:53,199
so they put her on the throne

388
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,360
and

389
00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:57,920
in aragon

390
00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:00,079
ferdinand was watching the situation and

391
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,279
he had been waiting for strategic

392
00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:02,880
marriage

393
00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:05,040
and he said you know i'm gonna keep

394
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:08,160
waiting and see

395
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,920
how that civil war over there plays out

396
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,000
and when she won

397
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,800
i will use the joke from my gen con

398
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:18,959
seminar he he approached her and said so

399
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:22,680
isabella what do you think of my huge

400
00:15:18,959 --> 00:15:22,680
tracts of land

401
00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:30,000
yeah but again you said you don't

402
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,440
remember all the details and i think

403
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,279
that's really important to mention that

404
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,360
when you're writing academic work you

405
00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:38,959
have to know the entire background

406
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,120
because they'll be asking you questions

407
00:15:38,959 --> 00:15:42,959
about it later and if you can't find an

408
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,320
answer you'll sit there looking really

409
00:15:42,959 --> 00:15:46,639
really silly

410
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,880
for me i guess the inspiration for how

411
00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:52,079
much history to bring in comes of all

412
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:54,480
things from men in black the movie

413
00:15:52,079 --> 00:15:57,120
when the two men in black are going to

414
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,120
look for the fact sheets and where do

415
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,720
they go they go to this new stand and

416
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,560
look at tabloids

417
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,040
with all these stories that have nothing

418
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,360
to do with reality anything else it's

419
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,480
just wild conjecture and conspiracy

420
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,759
theory

421
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,079
and

422
00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:14,240
you can you can be as close to the

423
00:16:12,079 --> 00:16:16,880
material as you want to and you can do

424
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,560
all the research but you don't have to

425
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,800
only as much as you need to make it

426
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,440
interesting whatever inspires

427
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,519
and if all you want to know is that you

428
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,680
know there was isabella and she happened

429
00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:29,519
to be available at the time that

430
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,279
ferdinand thought it would be fun to

431
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:32,800
unite two countries

432
00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:35,040
that's all you need

433
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,920
you can riff off of that

434
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:40,240
or you can make a story of how we got

435
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,639
there yes and in fact it would be kind

436
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:45,920
of funny to make it almost um ferdinand

437
00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:48,480
and isabella meet jane austin

438
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,360
regency romance situation with political

439
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:54,480
implications

440
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:57,279
uh yeah i'm i've done one or two vivas

441
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,560
defense of my academic papers and i have

442
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:01,199
know the pain of sitting there like a

443
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,279
lemon uh in in many aspects of my life

444
00:17:01,199 --> 00:17:04,880
so yeah no one of which being a dm

445
00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:06,799
funnily enough so yeah it's funny how

446
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,319
something's never changed

447
00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:10,799
it's history

448
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:12,160
but you know i so for my

449
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:14,319
campaign

450
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,280
when i first started world building i

451
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,039
had

452
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,959
you know a rough idea a couple of big

453
00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:21,199
you know mcguffin arcs to get the

454
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:22,799
macguffin via you know this way whatever

455
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:24,240
it may be but a number of other

456
00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:25,760
mcguffins were driven by the player

457
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,199
backstories and they had pretty much

458
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,520
free reign to make whatever it is they

459
00:17:27,199 --> 00:17:30,880
wanted to make you know combinations so

460
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,360
obviously that has implications for the

461
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:36,160
wider world so when somebody picked a

462
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:39,280
total which is kind of a more unusual

463
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:41,200
rarer character race in in d5e i was

464
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,600
like okay now i need to think about the

465
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,880
implications of that in my setting so

466
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,520
like where are they and where have they

467
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:50,000
been and there's a meme that turtles

468
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,919
actually have like a short lifespan in d

469
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,559
and d5 it's like 30 or 40 years whereas

470
00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:55,760
in real life the galapagos turtles can

471
00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:57,520
live like

472
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,480
200 years

473
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,320
so yeah there's all these things kind of

474
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,039
mish mashing together and in my

475
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,120
untrained mind of trying to work out

476
00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:08,640
quote unquote a long time ago

477
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,640
but there's an elf in the party and a

478
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,559
long time ago to him isn't

479
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,880
a long time ago at all so it doesn't it

480
00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:16,480
kind of loses all of its kind of punch

481
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,480
because i'm like oh actually you were

482
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,760
just on holiday when that happened to

483
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,520
everyone else this was like two

484
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,520
generations ago but for you it was you

485
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,600
know already half lost to the midst of

486
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,520
time but to you you were just on holiday

487
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,640
at the time so trying to stitch all that

488
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,000
together

489
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,840
i had a timeline and it changed oh man i

490
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,039
hacked that to pieces move things around

491
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,400
added

492
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:37,679
a couple of thousand years here and

493
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,280
there to be like actually that's not

494
00:18:37,679 --> 00:18:41,840
really that long ago let me just chuck

495
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:44,640
in like 20 000 years and that now that's

496
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,640
a long time ago

497
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,080
that's pretty much how i came to my

498
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,559
timeline my

499
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,960
my universe history for my campaign was

500
00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:55,200
just add some zeros and hope for the

501
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,200
best

502
00:18:55,679 --> 00:18:59,440
now in your world

503
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,840
do people

504
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,160
come and go where they're migrations

505
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,440
because if you if you open a history

506
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,360
book for

507
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,320
and we know mostly about european

508
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:12,480
history yes because the sources are

509
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,320
really available and because

510
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:18,160
they just publish a lot europeans

511
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:20,559
publish a lot about european history

512
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,799
you know we know the language

513
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:23,520
yeah we know the languages so that helps

514
00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:25,760
but

515
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,919
in your world have you thought about

516
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,200
people coming and going

517
00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:32,240
so

518
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,400
an example would be the normans right

519
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,240
who originally came from

520
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,559
scandinavia

521
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,160
settled in normandy

522
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:41,280
and then

523
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,799
of course

524
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,600
then went on to

525
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:49,360
conquer or colonize other areas of

526
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,640
europe um england and also sicily

527
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:52,720
parts of greece

528
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,919
and yeah by the way it was a combination

529
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,600
of conquest and colonization they of

530
00:19:55,919 --> 00:20:00,160
course you get you know the vikings

531
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:03,039
raiding the irish monastery and that's a

532
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:05,440
fun trope for adventurers or pretending

533
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:08,000
protecting the monks that sort of thing

534
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,400
but the same people also put up

535
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,120
settlements and started trading with

536
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,120
local populations and intermarrying and

537
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:16,799
all of that and eventually

538
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,600
turned into a different

539
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:18,320
group

540
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,039
so

541
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,480
yeah people do move around and

542
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:25,120
mingle

543
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:28,559
and then they can just show up like the

544
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:30,240
roma people showed up in europe in the

545
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,919
15th century

546
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,000
at least as far as european

547
00:20:31,919 --> 00:20:36,480
historiography is concerned okay so

548
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,159
that's the other bit how many i guess

549
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,480
that should probably come up too which

550
00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:42,159
is sources with an elf you can just ask

551
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,919
the next guy which is a little bit

552
00:20:42,159 --> 00:20:46,799
annoying well

553
00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:48,720
but the elf may not care um true you

554
00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:50,559
know i was i was thinking

555
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,159
that now you

556
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:55,360
can't see it on the podcast but i have a

557
00:20:52,159 --> 00:20:58,000
gray beard i'm 51 years old and when i

558
00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:00,480
was 16 i didn't think

559
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:04,400
i thought history was the past

560
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,919
but then i was around when the berlin

561
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,600
wall came down

562
00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:12,320
okay that's an event that's history

563
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,400
but the perception still you know i'm

564
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,200
imagining if my lifespan were 10 times

565
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,480
longer i might i might say that is

566
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:23,440
history but i may not say

567
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,280
for example there was an

568
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:28,159
i'm just thinking of an event right and

569
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:32,400
there was a there was a asian currency

570
00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:34,640
collapse around 1997 right that happened

571
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,480
it affected asia a lot more than it

572
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,919
affected me

573
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,640
so

574
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:42,960
you know i may know that it happened

575
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,480
but because it wasn't part of my lived

576
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,120
experience you see what i'm saying just

577
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,600
because an elf was around 300 years ago

578
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,520
doesn't mean that they have the

579
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,559
experience of this thing as a major

580
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,159
event

581
00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:57,039
and even if they do

582
00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:58,799
mean i was also around when the berlin

583
00:21:57,039 --> 00:22:00,799
wall came down and in fact i was in

584
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:02,080
germany at the time so i very much

585
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,400
remember

586
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,640
but if you were to ask me

587
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,280
you know as a historian so what were the

588
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,520
political events that led up to it

589
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,480
what happened on such and such a date

590
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,799
when did gorbachev meet with whoever

591
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,880
i couldn't tell you i i lived through

592
00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:21,520
these events i picked up a bit through

593
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:24,320
the news but i didn't study them

594
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,480
and so i can absolutely see that a

595
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,960
wizard who has studied a particular

596
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,280
period and has a history skill out the

597
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:34,480
wazoo would actually know about it more

598
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:36,159
about it than the elf yes yeah okay this

599
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,240
is all good this is all great while

600
00:22:36,159 --> 00:22:40,960
building material for me and listeners i

601
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,400
am like a sponge absorbing this thing

602
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,679
because it's because we we've talked

603
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,760
about the trouble already on the show

604
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:48,320
like the life spans and how that affects

605
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,440
but i love snapping us back to reality

606
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,679
and being like

607
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:54,880
vox populi on the street like they don't

608
00:22:51,679 --> 00:22:56,720
they might not care or know or be like i

609
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,720
don't know i've just been a blacksmith

610
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,880
for 300 years and

611
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,880
there was there was an iron shortage 200

612
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,480
years ago that was important but i don't

613
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,550
know some big explosion happened on

614
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,159
another continent oh well

615
00:23:06,550 --> 00:23:09,120
[Laughter]

616
00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:10,000
or

617
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,400
now

618
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,840
if you go into a pub in boston there

619
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,960
will be a selection of 10 craft beers

620
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,360
and

621
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,360
i mean i was too young to to drink beer

622
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,799
but 40 years ago

623
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,960
there would not have been

624
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:26,400
right craft beer was a thing

625
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,600
things change

626
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,000
there was a time when you couldn't get

627
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,480
sushi in the united states except in a

628
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,200
major city yeah there was a time when

629
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,520
pizza was kind of weird foreign food and

630
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,320
that's what he's called something house

631
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,080
of pizza rather than an italian name

632
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,440
because you wanted to hide a little bit

633
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,400
that this is this noveliz italian thing

634
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,960
so

635
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,640
so so so things change

636
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,400
and and that's part of history too right

637
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,840
the cultural history

638
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,000
yeah and that's

639
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,480
you mentioned the um

640
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,320
food and all of that and i guess it's

641
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,400
important to realize that you have the

642
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,480
queens and the kings and the nobles who

643
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,799
make these grand decisions and that we

644
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,080
memorized as dates and schools

645
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:10,159
but then

646
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,320
after a while historians started looking

647
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:14,559
at common people what was their lived

648
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,720
experience like and how did that change

649
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:18,400
and if characters aren't kings and

650
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,480
queens they might

651
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,880
see more of that until they reach a

652
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,480
certain level and get involved in these

653
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,640
large world events

654
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,440
and that makes me

655
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,559
give a piece of advice to you and your

656
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,240
listeners

657
00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:34,400
i would recommend that you look at the

658
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,880
early modern period

659
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,240
for your historical inspiration

660
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,279
so

661
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,039
after

662
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:45,039
the printing press after 1450 in europe

663
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:46,559
the sources are

664
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:48,080
enormously

665
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:50,320
richer and

666
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,480
what that means to you is that the

667
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,440
the history books that you

668
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,240
read

669
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,840
will be much more

670
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,120
there's just they'll just be much more

671
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,600
engaging because

672
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,440
the writer had an abundance of material

673
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,840
and it's

674
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,400
it's hard it's not hard to imagine a

675
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,320
world without electricity

676
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,279
it's hard to imagine a world without

677
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,279
printed books to me

678
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:20,640
it's hard to relate to that

679
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:23,679
yeah and in fact uh comparing

680
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,320
running stories and something like

681
00:25:23,679 --> 00:25:29,200
arse magicka even though my background

682
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,760
is medieval history was significantly

683
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,240
harder than coming up with a story to

684
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,480
tell in elizabethan england

685
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:39,600
simply because early modern really is

686
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,880
closer to us culturally in many many

687
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,480
ways

688
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,240
they asked

689
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,640
i did a lot of research on the

690
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,520
elizabethan period um

691
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,000
four game that we that we developed and

692
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,360
something that stood out someone asked

693
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,600
um

694
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,640
francis bacon what's the difference

695
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,480
between

696
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,320
we modern people they didn't have the

697
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,840
word renaissance right what's the

698
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,480
difference between

699
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,039
we modern people and our

700
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,480
medieval ancestors and he said three

701
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:11,760
things

702
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,120
gunpowder the compass and the printing

703
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,360
press

704
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:17,920
now i think he got those in exact

705
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:21,510
reverse order of importance

706
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,510
[Laughter]

707
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,240
you academics are all the same yeah

708
00:26:24,110 --> 00:26:27,039
[Laughter]

709
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,200
we

710
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:31,440
really can't imagine some of that stuff

711
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,000
because every time you read a d d

712
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,400
adventure that's published by either

713
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,720
well by whatever publisher there's

714
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,200
always this room full of books that you

715
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,360
walk into and there's maybe one or two

716
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,120
that aren't rotting and that are still a

717
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,320
fuse to the wizard

718
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,880
and

719
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:52,000
that's because they just can't get away

720
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:54,720
from books being available and the

721
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,240
library being walls and walls and walls

722
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,120
of things

723
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,880
when you would have a small box of three

724
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:03,760
books and

725
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:08,480
it's not inconceivable that you have

726
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:11,600
read every book on i don't know animals

727
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,679
in your area that every any monastery

728
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,000
has like this is your world this is your

729
00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:17,039
mental universe

730
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,240
so

731
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:20,559
that

732
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,919
leads me to speculate about in your

733
00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:24,399
world building

734
00:27:21,919 --> 00:27:26,000
have you have you damn thought about

735
00:27:24,399 --> 00:27:29,120
what's available

736
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:32,480
in the world and not and whether whether

737
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:35,520
it changes or turning points like

738
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,200
an age of exploration in your world and

739
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,480
what triggered that

740
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,919
you keep asking me questions that are

741
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,919
going to make me sound stupid

742
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,240
i'm really kidding these are

743
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,720
opportunities for you though no they

744
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,480
absolutely are yeah so i did have some

745
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,480
broadly and here's

746
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,360
my problem is that i

747
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,279
i know

748
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:57,520
because i was just kind of hacking it

749
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:59,440
together i definitely approached it

750
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,600
from like the bottom up rather than the

751
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,440
top down which sounds stupid but instead

752
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,000
of no not at all instead of being from

753
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,440
like year zero for lack of a better term

754
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,919
and then moving on that way it was more

755
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,600
of a case of well i've got this thing

756
00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:13,120
that needs to happen at some point when

757
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,760
when is that gonna make sense to be and

758
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:17,120
they kind of worked i worked back almost

759
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,960
and that makes things a lot harder

760
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,720
because then if you've changed something

761
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,880
at the start then everything else is

762
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,480
then pushed down or brought forward or

763
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:28,000
something so

764
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:29,520
yes there are a couple of epochs there's

765
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,159
a there's a you know a different

766
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,240
calendar system came in at one point

767
00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:36,559
again trying to just bring in some

768
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,240
familiarity with the gregorian calendar

769
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:40,799
they're all used to

770
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,840
but exceptionally shallow in terms of

771
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:43,360
like

772
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,799
something probably happen if the players

773
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,559
inquire about it i'll probably think up

774
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:48,720
something deeper but

775
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:50,159
for today it was a thing that happened

776
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,120
the dates changed for some reason

777
00:28:50,159 --> 00:28:52,880
because

778
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,640
i think i had in my world and it's very

779
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,399
tropey and it's very

780
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,320
uninspired to a certain extent you know

781
00:28:56,399 --> 00:29:00,159
there were the the older races that were

782
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,399
around a lot longer like elves and

783
00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:05,120
dwarves were there before the younger

784
00:29:02,399 --> 00:29:07,679
races of like humans and tieflings or

785
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,520
whatever it may be in my my setting so

786
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:11,600
when that happened because of

787
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,039
the reasons then the dates changed and i

788
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,360
might have it so that it was just

789
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:17,039
because humans in their unlimited

790
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,559
arrogance were like well this is when

791
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:20,000
modern history starts now because we're

792
00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:21,679
around and so now we're starting to

793
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,760
count against zero because that sounds

794
00:29:21,679 --> 00:29:28,289
like something humans would do

795
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,289
[Music]

796
00:29:30,850 --> 00:29:37,760
[Music]

797
00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:41,120
yeah so were there changes in

798
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,760
the elves lifestyle or the dwarfs

799
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,480
lifestyle their culture

800
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,480
how do they mark the epoch um and that

801
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,840
okay this is a question that i am

802
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,760
looking forward to answering because

803
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,080
as much as i am shallow in some elements

804
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,520
i also like to subvert expectations and

805
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,720
this is something i've mentioned on the

806
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,200
show a couple of times so in the second

807
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,960
no the first proper arc the players went

808
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,880
on once they finished the prologue they

809
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,840
went to some dwarven you know dwarven

810
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,600
capital city somewhere and i'd very much

811
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,320
lent heavily on like it's in a big

812
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,399
mountain you get to it by ship through

813
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,440
like a bored-out tunnel and on the

814
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:18,559
underside of the mountain and it goes

815
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,640
all dark

816
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,919
you come up to some like interior docks

817
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,159
that are just you know it's rocks and

818
00:30:21,919 --> 00:30:25,679
it's all murky and it's all damp and

819
00:30:24,159 --> 00:30:26,399
humid and all this other kind of stuff

820
00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:28,320
and

821
00:30:26,399 --> 00:30:30,320
i was deliberately playing on the

822
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,720
classic fantasy dwarven trope of

823
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,240
industrial and miners and blacksmiths so

824
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,480
they were expecting to step off and be

825
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,600
in this like the clinging of hammers and

826
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,840
it being all

827
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,480
grimy and dirty and

828
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:45,520
aprons and overalls and furnaces and

829
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,200
forges and smeltzers and i i thought

830
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,600
what's the logical

831
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,240
end point of

832
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,960
a society that is driven by

833
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,679
manufacturing and production and i kind

834
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,919
of looked at the real world so long

835
00:30:57,679 --> 00:31:03,279
story short is they step off the boat

836
00:30:59,919 --> 00:31:05,600
and they walk in and it's like a macy's

837
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:06,559
or something it's like a tj maxx

838
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,600
it is

839
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:12,320
hyper commercialized hyper

840
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,120
cookie cutter mass production

841
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,600
because

842
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,840
with an explosion of population

843
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,880
you can't get by with like 100 artisan

844
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,960
dwarfs anymore can't make the armor and

845
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,519
steel and armaments for

846
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,480
seven billion the populations they were

847
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,000
like let's

848
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,080
fast forward the clock a little bit

849
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,519
versus the real world but it's a long

850
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,720
story short they step and there's like

851
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:34,720
two floors there's a department store

852
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,720
there's like racks of plate mail there's

853
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:40,640
racks of leather

854
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:42,240
there's like swords all along the wall

855
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,640
like classic like adventurous gear

856
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,720
that's branded with this brand of like

857
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,559
uh you know like sleeping bags and stuff

858
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,159
so i i and my players well one of my

859
00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:51,760
players hated it because he's like no

860
00:31:50,159 --> 00:31:53,519
sword and sorcery

861
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,600
i was like sorry you're in my world now

862
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:57,519
and it's all brightly lit and harsh and

863
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,000
loud

864
00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:01,919
yeah there are there are very dif you

865
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,480
can get a very different vibe in your

866
00:32:01,919 --> 00:32:08,320
campaign by by drawing from different

867
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,840
periods and uh i'm thinking of glorantha

868
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,080
now have you have you heard of this

869
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,640
world the world of runequest oh i've had

870
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,559
a room quest so yeah yeah so that

871
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,799
setting and i haven't played runequest

872
00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:21,279
as such there's a computer game called

873
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:23,600
king of dragon pass that gives a flavor

874
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:25,039
for that world and it's a bronze age

875
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,840
world okay

876
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:29,039
and it's very

877
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,159
intentionally modeled on brown's age

878
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:32,480
europe

879
00:32:30,159 --> 00:32:33,919
which is well it's a different world

880
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,960
right and

881
00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:39,919
your your world sounds more like a 19th

882
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,760
century vibe which is

883
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:43,360
really interesting and it can be done

884
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,760
perfectly well

885
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,360
i mean i i'm not a gunpowder fan in my

886
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,600
fantasy games but you can take away

887
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,000
gunpowder and you still can have

888
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,279
um yeah now i'm i'm

889
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,279
lazy

890
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:58,240
which drives most of my world building

891
00:32:55,279 --> 00:32:58,240
which i think is fine

892
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,039
in that i want i want some of the modern

893
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,559
quality of life things i want people to

894
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:06,640
be able to tell the time because it's

895
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:08,799
just easier for every the players and me

896
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,960
i kind of want people to be able to

897
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:12,320
speak over longer distances

898
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,640
because that just makes things a lot

899
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,799
easier than it's just some artificial

900
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,799
difficulty in the way otherwise so i

901
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:21,440
bring in some modern traffic like at

902
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:23,760
this superstore they had an automatic

903
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,279
door but it was a pressure plate some

904
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,039
mcguffins in the wall but essentially it

905
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:29,279
was the doors opened like star trek and

906
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:30,799
then they walked in and they did great

907
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:33,039
well where where do you think all the

908
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:35,200
trap makers got there got their pressure

909
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:36,720
plates from

910
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,840
they just bought them off the shelf at

911
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,840
the hardware store

912
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,840
so yeah that that was

913
00:33:41,919 --> 00:33:46,399
against they were like wow we we were

914
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,840
expecting as what i expected and i was

915
00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:50,399
like nope you've got you've literally

916
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,080
got like the demo area so there was like

917
00:33:50,399 --> 00:33:53,360
a phone it was more of an actor dwarf

918
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,600
than an actual smell of dwarf like

919
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,960
clanging away and being like here you go

920
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,120
here's a little

921
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,960
trinket to give your child so they went

922
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,039
to ask that person like where can we

923
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,360
find this other they're after some other

924
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:08,079
artisan dwarf he's like i don't know man

925
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,079
i'm on my break like don't

926
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:13,119
i only get paid like four gold an hour

927
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:15,040
or whatever it is so i don't

928
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:16,800
know the forge isn't real it's all just

929
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,079
lights like just don't ask any questions

930
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,560
because i'm just pressing a few buttons

931
00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:22,879
like yeah

932
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,520
so that that was that was the change of

933
00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:26,800
that race at least not i mean again it

934
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,079
was more

935
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,440
working backwards because i thought that

936
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:30,800
was a good idea but then obviously it

937
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,839
was kind of easier than to plug in the

938
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,240
gaps of

939
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:36,560
why that might be but that's that's

940
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:37,760
certainly for them and again there are

941
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,119
there are some traditionalists there's

942
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,839
some like indie

943
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:43,440
indie uh craftsmen still in this dwarven

944
00:34:41,839 --> 00:34:45,040
city but they were they were very they

945
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,520
were like the craft beers they were like

946
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,040
a little nook a tiny little place down

947
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,839
some alleyway somewhere that you have to

948
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,520
find and and seek out that isn't

949
00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:54,720
through the shopping center almost

950
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,040
[Laughter]

951
00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:59,280
so yeah so that that's that's at least

952
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,359
one question that i feel has a

953
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,960
semi-decent answer from from me that's

954
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:05,359
not

955
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,200
made up on the spot

956
00:35:05,359 --> 00:35:09,680
i was just thinking about dungeons and

957
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,200
how how we had to deal with some stuff

958
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,720
because

959
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,839
you know there's history but then

960
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:17,680
there's also material evidence there's

961
00:35:14,839 --> 00:35:20,240
archaeology the other side of history

962
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,720
and in a way every adventuring group

963
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:24,000
does archaeology when you send them into

964
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:26,560
a dungeon

965
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:29,599
and so we had to come up with different

966
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,520
era so there was a reason for them to go

967
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:34,160
explore ruins

968
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,800
and that's that kind of forces a little

969
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,800
bit of engagement with this too because

970
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,880
it has to it doesn't have to make sense

971
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,359
but you know it shouldn't just look like

972
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,560
same old if you go to it yeah no i'm i'm

973
00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:47,200
i absolutely

974
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:49,760
like for me things do have to make a

975
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,599
sense i'm a huge fan on like

976
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,160
everything having very similitude it

977
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:55,920
making sense in universe

978
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,440
because i know i mean only for moan's

979
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,800
sake but i also know at least one of my

980
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,480
players would be like

981
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,480
why the heck is this thing here and i'm

982
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,240
just going to go oh well

983
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,160
it is what it is just and then the

984
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:07,599
fourth wall inevitably has been ever so

985
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,920
slightly

986
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:13,520
wobbled at that point so i always like

987
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:15,119
to make things that make sense and

988
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,440
having a traditional tumor horrors or

989
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:19,920
something without a lot of foreshadowing

990
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,640
and a lot of reasoning elsewhere

991
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,800
is is a difficult logical step for some

992
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,599
players to make so yeah

993
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,839
yeah

994
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:30,400
the first big dungeon they went into was

995
00:36:27,839 --> 00:36:31,599
abandoned mines to have a trope but it

996
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,400
was all very

997
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:35,440
there was no real traps because

998
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,359
why would you

999
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,440
trap your minds they were just boarded

1000
00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:40,960
up and that was it cobalt had moved in

1001
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,720
so there was some

1002
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,920
there were some kobold traps around

1003
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,680
where the kobolds are because they

1004
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,680
wanted to not be disturbed but apart

1005
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,839
from that there wasn't like arrows

1006
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,480
shooting out the walls or

1007
00:36:49,839 --> 00:36:54,560
trap you know pressure plates or

1008
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,160
lara croft tomb raider put the gems in

1009
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,400
the circlets and all that kind of stuff

1010
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,960
that none of that was in there for that

1011
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,440
precise reason so no for me that does

1012
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,040
make sense i i kind of have to have it

1013
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,760
make sense i know which sounds a bit

1014
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:11,839
disingenuous having just said i've got a

1015
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,839
shopping super supermarket but

1016
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,680
the shopping ball makes sense here

1017
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:17,760
here's um

1018
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,520
a piece of history that i want to share

1019
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,400
because i got i got all excited about

1020
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,680
the

1021
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,200
a historian already paren i think he was

1022
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,680
belgian right

1023
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:31,040
and he was he 19th century

1024
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:33,839
no i think i forget when exactly so

1025
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,640
he had i read a book by him and he had

1026
00:37:33,839 --> 00:37:39,040
this what's called the parent thesis

1027
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:42,000
and the parenthesis was

1028
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,920
in europe the the so-called dark ages

1029
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,119
happened because

1030
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,119
of

1031
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:49,359
well because the

1032
00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:52,720
maritime trade routes collapsed

1033
00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:54,079
particularly the mediterranean that that

1034
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,880
powers from

1035
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:58,560
eastern europe ottomans i think

1036
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,960
essentially shut down the mediterranean

1037
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,680
or contested the mediterranean and trade

1038
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:06,400
broke down um this by the way is

1039
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,320
discredited it is not considered factual

1040
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,079
by historians today but you can use it

1041
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,200
anyway in your game

1042
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:13,359
because

1043
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,079
well why was i excited about it because

1044
00:38:13,359 --> 00:38:18,480
it explains how you can have

1045
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:20,880
piles of gold in dungeons

1046
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,800
that nobody is using because well i've

1047
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,800
got nothing like

1048
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,200
we no longer have our trade route to

1049
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,119
constantinople yes right so all this

1050
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,520
gold that i was going to use to buy silk

1051
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:33,359
and constant noble i can't spend i'm

1052
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,400
gonna stick it in a dungeon or stick it

1053
00:38:33,359 --> 00:38:38,960
in a vault yeah right until

1054
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,119
um like in um hitchhiker's guide to the

1055
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,599
galaxy right until we

1056
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:45,040
will put magarithia right into into

1057
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:46,880
hibernation and wake it up when the

1058
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,599
economy is better

1059
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,680
and

1060
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:51,839
like people thought this happened but

1061
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,280
serious historians thought europeans did

1062
00:38:51,839 --> 00:38:55,440
this but

1063
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,040
it turns out not so much but you can use

1064
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,280
it in your world absolutely and you've

1065
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,280
just given me a really evil idea is to

1066
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,720
have a big pile of

1067
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,960
currency at the end of a dungeon that's

1068
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:06,880
now no longer legal tender so the

1069
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,119
player's like whoa oh there's all this

1070
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,800
yeah here's like a whole cupboards worth

1071
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:11,839
of loot and the moment they take it to

1072
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,240
the shop they're like yeah this is

1073
00:39:11,839 --> 00:39:14,240
worthless

1074
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,920
we haven't used this for 2000 years get

1075
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:22,000
out wasting my time would be

1076
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,160
hilarious as the gm

1077
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,640
and and that could happen

1078
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,720
there's a twilight zone episode about

1079
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,040
gold where where these people put

1080
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,880
themselves into hibernation and with the

1081
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,000
and a big pile of gold with the idea

1082
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,000
that it was going to be they were going

1083
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,520
to wake up 100 years from then and be

1084
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,920
rich and the punchline was that they

1085
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,079
could synthesize gold and gold was was

1086
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,560
as cheap as water

1087
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:48,400
but that could happen

1088
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,720
if your medium of exchange is a

1089
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,320
commodity right it could happen if

1090
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,640
they're using

1091
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,240
something like um

1092
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,160
well ivory is the first thing that comes

1093
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:59,520
to mind about salt

1094
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,320
for example

1095
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,320
right

1096
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,359
or think things can change

1097
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,880
yeah yeah yeah

1098
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:08,640
when silk was only being produced in

1099
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,960
byzantium or

1100
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,119
then it made sense to go to china

1101
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,160
to get more

1102
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:15,920
right

1103
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,480
but after

1104
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,720
uh after soap production in europe

1105
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,160
picked up yeah it decreases in value and

1106
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,839
it's therefore not

1107
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,839
the same as it it doesn't hold the carry

1108
00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:28,319
the same weight uh as it were as it once

1109
00:40:25,839 --> 00:40:30,240
did yeah that's a great i love that idea

1110
00:40:28,319 --> 00:40:31,680
i'm glad we we've we've come to that

1111
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:33,280
idea because i want to i want to use

1112
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,960
something similar because it does get a

1113
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,680
bit it's a bit trite to just have yeah

1114
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,359
here's diamonds rupees pearls gold fine

1115
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,280
whatever dungeon's over

1116
00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:43,440
i i kind of want to have a little bit of

1117
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,680
a rug pull

1118
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,640
to be like you find this other thing

1119
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,440
yeah

1120
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,119
or control wise you know maybe now

1121
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,839
wizards have found a new use for

1122
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:55,839
diamonds and have begun exhausting the

1123
00:40:53,839 --> 00:40:57,119
supply so the price of diamonds has gone

1124
00:40:55,839 --> 00:41:00,480
way up

1125
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:04,000
right yeah so it's worth digging into

1126
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,880
the ruins from when diamonds were cheap

1127
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,319
yeah

1128
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,319
did you say did you say that was called

1129
00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:10,880
a apparent thesis is that is that meant

1130
00:41:08,319 --> 00:41:14,480
to be like a yeah it's a historian is

1131
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,920
that a pun on like parentheses or am i

1132
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,599
actually

1133
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,760
oh and by the way there's a book that

1134
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:23,040
came out fairly recently that's called

1135
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:25,200
the bright aegis and it's a more it's a

1136
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,440
more modern historian who writes about

1137
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,760
this idea of you know the dark ages

1138
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,839
that's really not a good way to look at

1139
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,480
it it's not what was going on it's a

1140
00:41:31,839 --> 00:41:36,079
really good book but the parent thesis

1141
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:39,119
is great for

1142
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:40,960
gaming purposes yes so if you want it to

1143
00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:43,359
be true it's true

1144
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,040
yeah so it explains

1145
00:41:43,359 --> 00:41:49,119
how there used to be a golden age and

1146
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,560
there isn't any more right and there's

1147
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:52,400
and then actually

1148
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,359
we've been playing some of the old gold

1149
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,800
box the indie computer games from way

1150
00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:59,599
back in the day

1151
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,839
and another innovation that came around

1152
00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:04,000
was the letter of credit where if you

1153
00:42:01,839 --> 00:42:06,720
were you know british nobleman who was

1154
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,440
going to go go on the grand tour what

1155
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:11,520
they called it to see europe your bank

1156
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,480
wrote you a letter of credit and you

1157
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:17,440
could present that thing in milan and

1158
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:20,720
they would give you money and the reason

1159
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:23,920
it came up in a d d context is um in one

1160
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:25,760
of the later games there's this this

1161
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,079
vault in a couple of cities where you

1162
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,680
can go deposit your thousands of gold

1163
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:31,920
that you're hauling around you can

1164
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:34,079
barely move and then if you go to

1165
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,359
another city that has a quote-unquote

1166
00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:39,520
vault you can just withdraw your funds

1167
00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:41,680
so you're not hauling around sacks of

1168
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,599
gold with you at all times

1169
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,400
but where do you keep the gold that's

1170
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:49,760
another fun one

1171
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,720
so apparently when marco if you believe

1172
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,440
the

1173
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,800
his own accounts mark marco polo and

1174
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,400
there are reasons not to believe

1175
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,359
everything that he says

1176
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,280
when he actually came back from mongolia

1177
00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:02,880
with enormous wealth

1178
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:07,119
considerable amount of it he converted

1179
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:09,200
to gems and sewed it into his clothing

1180
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:12,079
and it turns out they did get shaking

1181
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:14,319
down because the cons power kublai

1182
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:15,760
khan's power was loosening and the

1183
00:43:14,319 --> 00:43:17,440
golden pass

1184
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,119
passport that protected him didn't

1185
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,319
protect him all the way back to

1186
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:21,839
samarkand

1187
00:43:20,319 --> 00:43:24,800
but he still had a lot of wealth because

1188
00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:26,960
he he had done what any good d character

1189
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,280
would do which is converted as gold into

1190
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:33,040
gemstones yes which are more easily

1191
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:36,640
portable yeah so gary geigs i think got

1192
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:39,040
it too he may have read that same book

1193
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,560
now that that idea of depositing in one

1194
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,560
sitting and being able to access those

1195
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,480
funds another another city is a classic

1196
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,640
one of my modern tropes that i would i'd

1197
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,319
absolutely use because it's just that

1198
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,599
it's that quality of life thing that

1199
00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:53,680
just makes sense i want to mention the

1200
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:56,720
knights templar

1201
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:59,040
or if your listeners are unaware of the

1202
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:01,839
knights templar they're missing out

1203
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,839
um this is fascinating so part of the

1204
00:44:01,839 --> 00:44:06,720
thing that they're known for is letters

1205
00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:09,760
of credit and and transporting and and

1206
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:12,240
storing gold but uh

1207
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,520
a lot of the books about templars are

1208
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:15,440
very biased

1209
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,520
they're not good history there are a lot

1210
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,200
of popular books that are poor history

1211
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,960
it doesn't matter

1212
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,880
right because there's they're based on

1213
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,440
some evidence and you can you can refine

1214
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,160
them for your game and by the time you

1215
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,880
file the serial numbers off anyway right

1216
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,920
and it's no longer recognizably templar

1217
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,640
your idea yeah yeah the inspiration will

1218
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,680
be will be just as good yeah i wanted to

1219
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,760
pick up on something we talked about

1220
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,359
earlier on i forgot until recently was

1221
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,760
when we were saying about how if you if

1222
00:44:41,359 --> 00:44:45,520
you speak to it at you know an npc they

1223
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,800
might not know what happened for

1224
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,839
whatever reason it might be or there

1225
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,839
might be a

1226
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:51,839
super expert despite being relatively

1227
00:44:49,839 --> 00:44:53,440
young whatever it might be but of course

1228
00:44:51,839 --> 00:44:55,280
there's always

1229
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,599
the the trope and i don't i'm not like

1230
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,359
this isn't like a weird cringey thing in

1231
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:01,280
your circles but like history is written

1232
00:44:59,359 --> 00:45:02,480
by the victors to use a

1233
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,400
classic

1234
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,480
cliche but obviously obviously that you

1235
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,480
can you can fold in to your your world

1236
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,760
building and then also the sources you

1237
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,280
were saying you know like discredited

1238
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,680
sources are unreliable sources the

1239
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:16,640
unreliable narrator which is the way of

1240
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:19,119
the dm to talk through npcs anyway i

1241
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,560
just love i mean it sounds i sound so

1242
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:22,240
machiavellian because it's like none of

1243
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,910
my players can trust any npcs now with

1244
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:24,400
all these like

1245
00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:26,240
[Laughter]

1246
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,920
nothing is true

1247
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:32,000
but i love kind of thinking about

1248
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,680
why those things have happened or have

1249
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,800
come you know why that

1250
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,400
this thing is

1251
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,920
in a positive light or a negative night

1252
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,839
or why these people don't like talking

1253
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,280
about a certain event or why this other

1254
00:45:39,839 --> 00:45:44,079
sort of people really do like talking

1255
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,640
about that certain event is that's super

1256
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:47,839
fun to think about whether your players

1257
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,319
actually make use of it or not is a

1258
00:45:47,839 --> 00:45:53,200
different question entirely but

1259
00:45:50,319 --> 00:45:54,880
an eye-opening experience i had was i

1260
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,440
intentionally bought a book of world

1261
00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:00,400
history written by a british historian

1262
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:03,040
which had a certain view on colonialism

1263
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,560
of course also had a a rather different

1264
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,119
view than what i was accustomed to on

1265
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,680
the american war of independence okay

1266
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:12,000
that was fascinating and i think he had

1267
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,359
he had a new perspective i don't it's a

1268
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,680
little heavy so i don't want to get into

1269
00:46:13,359 --> 00:46:17,680
it yes but

1270
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,680
i can i can imagine yeah yeah but the

1271
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,839
other thing that's kind of fun is you

1272
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,400
have the official accounts the you know

1273
00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:27,280
but then you also have pamphlets and

1274
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:30,319
even in a society where not everybody's

1275
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:33,839
literate you might have graffiti even

1276
00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:35,440
with greek history and egyptian history

1277
00:46:33,839 --> 00:46:37,520
i remember

1278
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:40,000
one of my egyptologist friends told me

1279
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,000
that yes you have stuff scribbled on the

1280
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,480
pyramid walls where the workers were

1281
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,839
that says pharaoh got really drunk last

1282
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:51,520
night and i remember seeing um

1283
00:46:47,839 --> 00:46:54,880
i used to work on greek uh greek i guess

1284
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:57,599
epigraphy so random scribbles all over

1285
00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:00,000
the place and there was this adult

1286
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:03,200
entertainment quarter where that it said

1287
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,480
you know the prostitute uh bubalian is

1288
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,880
really hot

1289
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:09,760
stuff like that so you might get a

1290
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:13,599
different view of history or of events

1291
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,920
by looking at scribbles pamphlets things

1292
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:18,720
that don't come from the top down and

1293
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,160
that's always been interesting yeah

1294
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,079
there's a there's a meme that's going

1295
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,839
around and it's an image of

1296
00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:25,280
like a rabbit or hair or something it's

1297
00:47:23,839 --> 00:47:27,200
like what the creature looks like now

1298
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,280
what the skeleton looks like what

1299
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,839
historians would extrapolate and it's

1300
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,920
some you know prehistoric looking

1301
00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:36,240
monstrous creature and the same can be

1302
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,000
said for these kind of things like

1303
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:38,800
just some scribblings on the rule that

1304
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,800
says

1305
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,400
this prostitute is a hottie

1306
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,400
that could be incorrectly extrapolated

1307
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,920
out to be like that is a whole city of

1308
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,359
prostitutes and in reality it wasn't it

1309
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,440
was just like one building it was like

1310
00:47:47,359 --> 00:47:51,440
one brothel but in you know because of

1311
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,680
the extrapolation of well that's just

1312
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,040
what that means that that is the same

1313
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,319
it's the same thought process which is

1314
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,200
quite interesting and you can have those

1315
00:47:56,319 --> 00:47:58,640
kind of

1316
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,280
yeah

1317
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,839
now i want to make an elf in my world

1318
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,599
who's sort of like a sancho ponza who

1319
00:48:03,839 --> 00:48:07,920
thinks that nothing is significant and

1320
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:09,440
important and uh the bard tells him

1321
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,800
about this big event he says oh yeah i

1322
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,800
remember that that wasn't a big deal

1323
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:20,800
uh that's great oh we i'm i'm super

1324
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:22,480
happy because we we've

1325
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,240
hopefully provided so much of these

1326
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,720
little just these little little tiny

1327
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:28,559
little nuggets of like world building oh

1328
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:30,400
yeah that's that's something interesting

1329
00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:31,280
to think about that can be used in so

1330
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,319
many

1331
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,480
ways

1332
00:48:32,319 --> 00:48:36,559
it's super interesting for me certainly

1333
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,079
coming from a not the historian

1334
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:40,559
background by any stretch of the

1335
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:42,480
imagination it's cool it's just cool i

1336
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:44,319
can't i'm i've run out of superlatives

1337
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,640
to describe the uh

1338
00:48:44,319 --> 00:48:48,160
the use of having these kind of these

1339
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,240
this knowledge and these points of views

1340
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:52,319
put on i did have one

1341
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:54,240
final thing from from me though i wanted

1342
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:56,000
to talk about and we we did touch on it

1343
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:58,079
briefly when you were looking to the

1344
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,960
berlin wall and that kind of stuff and

1345
00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:02,880
living through history is

1346
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,960
i guess with some ttrpgs more than

1347
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,760
others but let's stick with the classic

1348
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,960
heroic fantasy for sake of argument

1349
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,400
you know would you say it's the job of

1350
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,920
the player characters to to make history

1351
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,800
and with all that baggage that has a lot

1352
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,630
more baggage for you guys than it

1353
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,599
probably has for me

1354
00:49:15,630 --> 00:49:19,440
[Laughter]

1355
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:22,559
i think most people want their

1356
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:26,319
characters to be important and more

1357
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:29,200
important and interesting than they are

1358
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:32,160
but i don't have to be

1359
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,920
julius caesar or charlemagne

1360
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,280
and in fact that was something i ran

1361
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,920
into when i was

1362
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:40,720
running white wolf at some point like

1363
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:43,200
everybody important was a vampire i was

1364
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:44,800
like no this is silly i'm i'm not going

1365
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,119
there so there's that but then you have

1366
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,760
achilles and you have hector

1367
00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:50,960
and they are cool in different ways

1368
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,599
perseus

1369
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:55,760
cool and different ways so

1370
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:57,920
i think characters should be cool

1371
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,559
characters should be unusual for crying

1372
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:03,599
out loud even frodo ends up being

1373
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:04,720
unusual um and fit the most famous of

1374
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:06,640
hobbits

1375
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:08,160
to put the movie out the book because

1376
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,920
here we go

1377
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,319
but i don't think they have to make

1378
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,280
history as such necessarily what do you

1379
00:50:12,319 --> 00:50:15,119
think

1380
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,920
i think you're you're asking about

1381
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:19,680
agency what's the agency of player

1382
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,200
character maybe i am maybe i'm not who

1383
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,240
can say it

1384
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,760
well that's how i would answer is i

1385
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:28,240
think players want to want to feel that

1386
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,400
they have agency in history they don't

1387
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:33,119
want their characters to just witness

1388
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,040
history they want their characters to

1389
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:38,319
influence history

1390
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:41,200
and it's can be hard to know

1391
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:43,760
if you're influencing history or not

1392
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:46,960
back to the berlin wall the guy who

1393
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,559
started hammering on the berlin wall

1394
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,319
that night

1395
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:52,240
may not have known that the wall would

1396
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:55,359
be down

1397
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:58,240
24 hours later maybe he did

1398
00:50:55,359 --> 00:51:00,880
but i think that the the players want to

1399
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:02,400
feel that

1400
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,720
they want to know

1401
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:08,800
the events that they're steering for

1402
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:10,160
shaping have historical weight i don't

1403
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,240
know

1404
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,760
if players

1405
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:17,200
want to know

1406
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:19,680
the long view right so maybe you help

1407
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,599
restore the king

1408
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,440
right the post came to his rightful

1409
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:26,400
throne

1410
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:28,960
do the players want to know

1411
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,079
20 years later what people think of that

1412
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,720
king

1413
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:34,640
i i don't know that's

1414
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:37,119
i think maybe you may not you don't even

1415
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:40,559
need to i'm thinking in particular of

1416
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:42,960
the pre-published shadow run and call of

1417
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:46,079
kazulu adventures that i've read they

1418
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:48,079
have a very interesting format the group

1419
00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:50,160
goes and does things and especially in

1420
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:52,400
shadowrun we're now not talking major

1421
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,400
history we're talking them you know

1422
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,240
pulling one over on a large corporation

1423
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:59,440
that was up to no good

1424
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:02,400
but the adventure ends by essentially

1425
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:05,760
reading a newspaper snippet on what the

1426
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:08,240
outcome was of these characters actions

1427
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:10,319
so maybe you know cthulhu is very

1428
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:12,559
similar you know after this happened

1429
00:52:10,319 --> 00:52:15,760
such and such got arrested and then this

1430
00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:17,599
cult got eradicated over here and this

1431
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,599
other thing happened that maybe sets you

1432
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:22,480
up for your next adventure

1433
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:24,960
but depending on what the group did

1434
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:27,520
these vary i think there's more than one

1435
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,520
option usually if they did such and such

1436
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,720
read this if they did the other thing

1437
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,880
read that

1438
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:35,599
and i think agency is actually exactly

1439
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,760
right here we want our actions and our

1440
00:52:35,599 --> 00:52:39,760
choices to matter they don't have to be

1441
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,000
on a large global scale

1442
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,599
what's the outcome yeah i like that that

1443
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,200
is nice little touch

1444
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:46,800
and quite an elegant solution to like a

1445
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,119
post-campaign

1446
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,680
almost like a post-credits scene of

1447
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:53,440
of a campaign for example of of having

1448
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,800
that outcome and

1449
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,559
what i was thinking about while we were

1450
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,240
talking there is yes

1451
00:52:56,559 --> 00:53:00,480
some players more than other characters

1452
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:02,480
more than others might want to have that

1453
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,000
big impact on the world but

1454
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,520
typically in these worlds you still have

1455
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,880
you still have the kings

1456
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,800
as you mentioned you still have the

1457
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,160
world leaders you still have the tribal

1458
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,359
leaders you still have the people that

1459
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,280
are the historians who can write

1460
00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:15,680
whatever the heck they want so

1461
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,559
ultimately all of that stuff is in some

1462
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,319
ways

1463
00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:20,079
the nature of the setting rather than it

1464
00:53:18,319 --> 00:53:21,599
is the players they might save the world

1465
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:23,119
and it might be like oh the world's not

1466
00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:24,880
going to end hooray

1467
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:26,720
a generation of

1468
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,359
species later

1469
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:30,640
who cares anymore like it's it's a bit i

1470
00:53:29,359 --> 00:53:32,079
want to end on this bit of sweet notes

1471
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,240
so please save me actually if you have

1472
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:35,680
anything more that you wanted to talk

1473
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:37,440
about that we haven't we haven't quite

1474
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:40,559
got to yet anything we might have missed

1475
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,559
yeah i want to say you don't have to

1476
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:44,400
start out what you're saying with me

1477
00:53:42,559 --> 00:53:46,880
when i talk about history and talk about

1478
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,960
the parent thesis and you know i i

1479
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,359
picked up some heavyweight real

1480
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,760
scholarship books and read them even

1481
00:53:51,359 --> 00:53:55,680
though it's not my academic field you

1482
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,640
don't start that way right the gateway

1483
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,960
drug

1484
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:02,240
is wikipedia

1485
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:03,680
or you can watch documentaries the bbc

1486
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:05,200
makes wonderful

1487
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,720
documentaries

1488
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,960
secrets of the dead really recommended

1489
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,720
yes very much so

1490
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,760
national geographic

1491
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:15,200
and

1492
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,720
as i said i would recommend that you

1493
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,920
start with um

1494
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:22,720
with a period that has a printing press

1495
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,720
unless you have a creative reason not to

1496
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:28,640
right if you're trying to get

1497
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:31,040
more of a dark ages or i don't know um

1498
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,359
classical mediterranean

1499
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,800
vibe in your world then then obviously

1500
00:54:33,359 --> 00:54:36,319
those you'd look at the corresponding

1501
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,200
period but if you don't know where to

1502
00:54:36,319 --> 00:54:39,520
start

1503
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:42,000
i would say start with 16th century

1504
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,920
europe awesome thank you

1505
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,319
well in which case is there anything you

1506
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:48,960
would like to promote

1507
00:54:46,319 --> 00:54:53,119
there is as a matter of fact we are

1508
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,119
shoestone publishing and we

1509
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,880
wizardry where

1510
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:07,200
all the player characters are wizards

1511
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:10,559
and the magic is closely based on

1512
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:12,880
historical grimoires of what people

1513
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:16,160
actually thought spells could do

1514
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:19,280
at a time when magic was taken seriously

1515
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:21,599
and it turns out to be surprisingly

1516
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:24,480
playable that magic

1517
00:55:21,599 --> 00:55:26,799
and it's relatable so it's

1518
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:29,680
well that's that's what we want to pitch

1519
00:55:26,799 --> 00:55:33,040
is uh is our role-playing game which you

1520
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:34,480
can find on drive through rpg or on the

1521
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,680
shoestone website

1522
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:39,839
awesome amazing well as usual all the

1523
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,760
links will be in the episode description

1524
00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:44,000
below and i would encourage you everyone

1525
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,720
listening to that sounds

1526
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:50,799
surprisingly playable is the is the box

1527
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:51,520
text i think for the i love it

1528
00:55:50,799 --> 00:55:53,680
well

1529
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:56,240
i think the the important thing

1530
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,319
for us when we pick the period was

1531
00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:01,839
besides the period being fascinating and

1532
00:55:58,319 --> 00:56:03,520
the golden age of magical scholarship

1533
00:56:01,839 --> 00:56:05,920
everybody's had to slog through

1534
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,160
shakespeare in high school everybody's

1535
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:10,640
had to read something about the period

1536
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:13,040
and if that's all the research you've

1537
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,160
ever done and all the research you ever

1538
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:17,040
want to do

1539
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,559
that's fine run with it but you know

1540
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,720
something about it

1541
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:22,640
yes indeed indeed well all that's left

1542
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:25,280
for me to say is thank you ever so much

1543
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,640
guys that was amazing i i had so much

1544
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,079
fun

1545
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,760
wow i wish i could travel back in time

1546
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:30,799
and tell my younger self doing secondary

1547
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,640
school history you're gonna have so much

1548
00:56:30,799 --> 00:56:34,880
fun talking about it in

1549
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,720
in 20 years

1550
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,760
so no thank you so much guys oh it's a

1551
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:41,680
real pleasure thanks yes awesome

1552
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:44,400
great to meet you likewise thank you

1553
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,440
everybody listening at home as usual

1554
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,960
please check out everything in the

1555
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:50,240
episode description links to everything

1556
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:52,799
is there as it always is otherwise thank

1557
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:55,200
you all for listening and good night and

1558
00:56:52,799 --> 00:56:58,400
now it's time for the patreon shout outs

1559
00:56:55,200 --> 00:57:01,280
thank you to robert hartley dm for viva

1560
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:03,359
la dirt league and writer on the dnd

1561
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,960
logic web series

1562
00:57:03,359 --> 00:57:07,760
i would encourage everybody to check him

1563
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,799
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

1564
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,040
twitch

1565
00:57:08,799 --> 00:57:13,440
thank you to optional rule a two-time

1566
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:16,240
guest of the show and a very insightful

1567
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,520
and knowledgeable source of information

1568
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,520
please check them out at

1569
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,520
www.optionalrule.com

1570
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:26,240
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1571
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,720
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1572
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:31,040
out there making hilarious and

1573
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,799
educational dungeons and dragons content

1574
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,559
please go and check out his stuff at

1575
00:57:32,799 --> 00:57:36,960
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1576
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:38,559
links to all of his socials and all of

1577
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,240
his content including his own patreon

1578
00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:42,000
which i would very much encourage you to

1579
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:44,880
check out

1580
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,880
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1581
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,160
on twitter for supporting the show

1582
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,079
if you need support running your

1583
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:53,280
personal or business schedule head to

1584
00:57:51,079 --> 00:57:55,040
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1585
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,119
make that difference between should do

1586
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,880
and done boss it better with support

1587
00:57:57,119 --> 00:58:01,200
from cat who will help you get back that

1588
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,640
essential time you've been searching for

1589
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,559
if you would like to support what we do

1590
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:07,280
and get four shout outs a month head

1591
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:08,799
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1592
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:12,770
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1593
00:58:08,799 --> 00:58:19,780
kofi.com thinking critically

1594
00:58:12,770 --> 00:58:39,920
[Music]

 

Shewstone Publishing

Publisher

Andrew & Vesna Gronosky are the founders of Shewstone Publishing and members of the Independent Book Publisher's Association. They've been playing table top RPGs since 1980 and their credits include freelance writing for the Ars Magica game line.