Branding

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welcome thinkers to season 4 episode 13

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of thinking critically

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this episode is part three in our series

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of marketing in the ttrpg Creator space

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you'll find links to Parts one and two

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in the episode description so go check

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them out if you like what you hear today

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otherwise I continue to stream on Twitch

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at twitch.tv thinking critically my

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Homebrew d5e campaign uh now at 90

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sessions almost every Tuesday so go and

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check us out there see me dming and

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seeing me putting my money where my

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mouth is anyway let's get on with the

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show

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[Music]

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foreign

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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once again I'm joined by Zac Apple White

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from Apple White games thank you ever so

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much for joining us again can you tell

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us a little bit about yourself

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absolutely thanks so much for having me

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so I'm Zach Applewhite the marketing

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half of Apple White games which I run

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with my extremely talented wife I am in

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addition to being a professional

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corporate marketer with a specialization

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search engine optimization I have also

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on the side been Gathering audiences on

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Facebook Tick Tock YouTube ran several

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micro kickstarters in the ttrpg space as

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well as poetry for some reason and the

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main reason that I'm here today again

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coming back always is because I'm in a

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unique position as a professional

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marketer who knows corporate marketing

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but also is in the trenches I am

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uniquely situated to add value to help

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all of the amazing people in the ttrpg

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community who are extremely talented

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extremely creative turn that creativity

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toward Marketing in a way that is

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sustainable because I'm in the churches

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too I work the nine to five and

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everything I do for my side projects for

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the stuff that I hope to become a

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full-fledged business I have to do on

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almost no budget and almost no time and

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so I try to boil everything down into

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very minimalist marketing and just help

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educate people and help everyone achieve

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their goal and level up awesome amazing

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and if any of that has weighted any of

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your appetites Zach's been on the two

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previous episodes Kickstarter so you can

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hear a little bit more about those micro

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kickstarters including the Poetry one

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and uh one on marketing which was very

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enlightening I have to say like not

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coming from a marketing background

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myself and I think with today's episode

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you are now the most prolific guest on

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the show so congratulations I'm honored

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wonderful well that's good because I

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have a surprise for the end of this

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episode oh wow okay I'm I'm looking

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forward to that absolutely awesome uh

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well continuing on our theme today's

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topic is branding so what does that mean

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to you in the D D and wider ttrpg

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framework yeah so the the fun terrible

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thing about branding is that it's a very

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big word and it means a lot of different

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things to a lot of different people even

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in the professional marketing community

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so the thing to understand when you

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think about branding because if you go

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out and you do your own independent

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research you're going to run into a lot

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of studies on corporate branding you're

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going to look at Blizzard or you're

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going to look at Chipotle or Amazon and

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all these big things and while there is

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a sliver That Matters to the people who

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are in all likelihood listening to this

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podcast probably Wizards of the Coast

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isn't listening to this you're great but

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I don't think you're on the radar yet

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for the small creators like me who are

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either side hustling or they're making

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this their main Hustle but of course

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that's it's a small business only 20 of

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the stuff that you're going to find

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research on really matters to you the in

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the trench stuff is the personal

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branding it's a little different it also

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has a whole different rule set but in

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general the general definition of

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branding is its reputation that's just

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think about it like that okay it's what

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people are and are not saying about you

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when you're not in the room when you're

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not around to ask them a survey and so

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to give like a little perspective think

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about your ttrpg characters or your

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group it probably has your group might

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have a name let's call them uh the

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vultures of done with okay what do

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people think about and say about the

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vultures of dunwith when they're not

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around do people have an ominous Eerie

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feeling or do they feel like they're

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Heroes they're probably different things

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to different groups of people depending

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on what chaos you reeked in their town

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but that's that's the branding okay it's

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the feeling behind the name it's tied to

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experience and it's usually also tied to

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a story either invoked by the people who

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are behind the brand or by the people

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who have experienced the brand

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and so that's that's a general

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generalization I know that was a lot and

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unfortunately that's a very tiny

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microscopic piece of what branding is

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but that's why I'm here today to help us

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Zone in on what really matters to the

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small creators

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yeah yeah thank you for that there's

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several things there I wanted to touch

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upon but the first thing is that

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definition and I know it's ironic

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because I always start the episode with

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asking the guests to define the topic

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but specifically for you know my

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academic years many years ago where I

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did my you know business studies to a

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certain extent and we did marketing and

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advertising and branding and all those

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things I must admit you know they the

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definitions of those all do kinda

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smushed together but specifically those

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three like marketing advertising and

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branding I know I there's probably some

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professionals out there including

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yourself that are wincing grimacing at

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me saying that they're all the same

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thing I know they're not but certainly

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from a newbies perspective it is one of

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those things it's like am I doing it

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have I done it have I done one because

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I've done the you know the other and I I

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what does that Venn diagram look like I

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suppose before we move any further how

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absolutely so the thing is it's just

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like how you can't do business without

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doing marketing you can't do business or

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marketing without doing branding because

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at some point after you've created your

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product or your ID you have the idea or

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thought process or insights that you

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want to communicate the second you put

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yourself out in front of people you're

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doing the thing you're doing The

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Branding you're doing the marketing and

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so that means that like even if all

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you're doing at this point because if

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you listen to the marketing episode I

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recommend hey let's say you want to get

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on Twitter and you want people to start

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listening to you well the first thing to

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do is you go out and just for like a

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month to three months just comment just

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be a good consumer and that will teach

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you how to be a good producer but even

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in that consumer phase it's your

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commenting and interacting with people

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you're building a reputation You're

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Building Rapport you're building a voice

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and that's right there in that very very

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beginning stage that is marketing that

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is branding all right it gets bigger it

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gets more complicated it gets personal

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as you go forward but in the Venn

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diagram of where it is advertising is

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only when money is exchanged hands for

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attention so we can set that aside

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because I also hate to spend money all

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right I I've done it I'm still working

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on being any good at it but we can set

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that aside for now marketing is any time

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you're trying to get people to listen to

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your message and that message might be

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Vote for This buy this or just be

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entertained by this all right branding

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is what happens after the message okay

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so I see your Tweet the brand is what I

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think about you what I think about your

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Tweet how this tweet aligns with all

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your other tweets and how that's

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building my impression of you and most

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importantly something that I do want to

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get into today is it's about the action

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because you you can say anything but we

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all hate our cell phone companies we all

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hate our insurance companies at least a

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little bit because they say so many

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things so many nice things so many

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consumer reports and five stars that

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they plaster themselves with but their

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actions

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all right as soon as you're on their

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horrid customer service line yeah that's

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where the branding really matters

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because the marketing can get you the

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first sale The Branding that's what gets

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you the second sale that's what gets you

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the fifth sale this 10th cell that's

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what gets you a fan who's going to care

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okay that's a really good definitions

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there thank you for that and regarding

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putting advertising to one side as we

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record this and probably the episode

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when it goes up we're in the deep in a

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cost of living crisis here in the UK so

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not spending money is I think a huge

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dick box for for myself or several of my

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listeners I imagine so that's perfect

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good to hear the really good news about

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branding is that you should do it at no

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cost okay the advantage that uh smaller

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People Like Us have against the bigger

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Goliath corporations is that they have

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to Outsource their branding to paid

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actors okay so you look at the insurance

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over here in America we have like Flow

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from Progressive all the insurance

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agencies have this guy or girl Geico's

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gecko all right yes cereal and their

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mascots okay they have to Outsource and

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by the way sometimes leading to huge

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controversy when the human on the side

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of that character is less than ideal

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looking at Subway for example horrible

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situation they have to Outsource that

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branding they have to pay for it we

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don't

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because The Branding and the small

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Creator scope is us all right we are our

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own influencer the furthest we can go

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into Outsourcing that is small

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influencers which at our level is more

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of a partnership than it is just a money

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exchange and that's part of The Branding

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too all to say you don't need to spend

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money

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yeah that's you've mentioned it before

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you mentioned it just then and it's I'm

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glad you did because it's at the top of

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my list of notes as well so let's get

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into the meat of one of the main topics

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of today which is how as you said at our

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size how the person is the brand how you

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present yourself how you interact what

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what you say an individual level so

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let's talk about that for a minute and

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what that means then when when that is

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the the Baseline what does that mean for

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credit you know how do we how do we

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achieve good branding and then there

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must be some secret I want there to be a

275
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,959
silver bullet

276
00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:24,660
absolutely we all we all want our plus

277
00:11:21,959 --> 00:11:26,760
one magic sword though that'll do the

278
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work for us so here's here's the very

279
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:32,760
basic line of good branding number one

280
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have something to communicate it's okay

281
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:37,740
if at the start of your Endeavor you

282
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have it fully fleshed out what you want

283
00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:41,880
to do and all you have is like I know I

284
00:11:39,959 --> 00:11:43,740
want to be on a pot I want to do

285
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,839
podcaster I know I want to make videos

286
00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:47,940
and you don't know exactly what you want

287
00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:49,560
to say just go ahead and figure out what

288
00:11:47,940 --> 00:11:51,779
you're doing and then you can figure out

289
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:53,459
the branding later okay so the first

290
00:11:51,779 --> 00:11:56,880
step is to have something to communicate

291
00:11:53,459 --> 00:11:58,200
step two is to communicate it and that

292
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,360
communication might be let's just say

293
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:04,200
the kickstarter situation I communicate

294
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:06,899
that I have a product I communicate that

295
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,880
I want you to buy it next step of

296
00:12:06,899 --> 00:12:11,100
branding okay after you've done that and

297
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,680
that's marketing as well you've made the

298
00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:16,380
sale now you have to execute on it so

299
00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:18,899
you need to deliver your product and if

300
00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:21,420
you're doing good branding good branding

301
00:12:18,899 --> 00:12:23,760
you're going a little above and beyond

302
00:12:21,420 --> 00:12:26,579
you're putting personal touches into it

303
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,980
when we fulfilled our latest uh

304
00:12:26,579 --> 00:12:31,500
Kickstarter uh Chronicles of erigarth we

305
00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:34,260
did our first physical book we wrapped

306
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:36,720
them in a nice uh just brown paper with

307
00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:39,240
a piece of twine we got a wax sealing

308
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:41,959
kit off Amazon so that we can make it

309
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,459
feel really special

310
00:12:41,959 --> 00:12:47,040
that right there packaging that's

311
00:12:44,459 --> 00:12:49,560
branded something that sets us apart it

312
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,779
was a little bit of user experience for

313
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:54,300
the person opening it up it's a special

314
00:12:51,779 --> 00:12:57,420
touch that is not scalable

315
00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:59,639
for other corporations Apple cannot have

316
00:12:57,420 --> 00:13:01,019
people wax sealing their stuff over and

317
00:12:59,639 --> 00:13:03,660
over again because it doesn't sound

318
00:13:01,019 --> 00:13:06,839
complicated but you need wax and fire

319
00:13:03,660 --> 00:13:09,300
and someone there to do it properly all

320
00:13:06,839 --> 00:13:12,300
right and hand tying things by twine

321
00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:14,160
and then part of that is the follow

322
00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:16,800
through that's the step four

323
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,260
follow through is staying in touch with

324
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,959
them not disappearing after you've made

325
00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:24,060
a sale and then suddenly appearing again

326
00:13:21,959 --> 00:13:27,000
when you have something else to sail to

327
00:13:24,060 --> 00:13:30,360
them branding is building a relationship

328
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:33,540
in a way part of that is

329
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:35,639
um really really good branding is when

330
00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:38,519
you make a mistake and you overcome it

331
00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:40,380
but we can get to that in a second the

332
00:13:38,519 --> 00:13:42,120
other part of really good branding and

333
00:13:40,380 --> 00:13:45,360
this is the part that I struggle with

334
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:49,079
okay I am trying to do this better is

335
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:52,139
showing up show your face because I love

336
00:13:49,079 --> 00:13:54,360
to hide behind gifts who doesn't love a

337
00:13:52,139 --> 00:13:57,060
good gift I love to hide behind memes

338
00:13:54,360 --> 00:14:01,100
and if I could communicate solely in

339
00:13:57,060 --> 00:14:03,480
memes gifts and movie quotes I would

340
00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:06,180
yeah now we realize why you've come on

341
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:09,720
three times is because uh Ayah too

342
00:14:06,180 --> 00:14:11,880
very similar but I this and this is part

343
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,100
of me showing up and while I'm I'm

344
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,360
decent at it on like video I show my

345
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:18,600
face all the time that's part of the

346
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:21,660
medium on my Twitter for example I

347
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,680
almost never post a selfie all right but

348
00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:24,959
you want to talk about like there's a

349
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,639
small Creator his name's hawkmir on

350
00:14:24,959 --> 00:14:29,120
Twitter all right that's his Twitter

351
00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:31,019
account he shows a picture of himself

352
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,880
every day

353
00:14:31,019 --> 00:14:35,760
all right he shows a picture of himself

354
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,220
and oftentimes some of the amazing food

355
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:42,180
he's eating

356
00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:44,699
and even though hawkmir is not like he's

357
00:14:42,180 --> 00:14:46,440
not constantly selling me things uh I

358
00:14:44,699 --> 00:14:48,180
know he's connected to Talon and Claw

359
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,880
but I have no idea the depth of that

360
00:14:48,180 --> 00:14:51,959
connection and exactly his role but I

361
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,540
know him

362
00:14:51,959 --> 00:14:57,180
okay and whether or not he's told me his

363
00:14:54,540 --> 00:14:59,880
story I've been cocked at a story based

364
00:14:57,180 --> 00:15:03,000
on repeated evidence of him showing up

365
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:04,860
and showing me his face I know he's in a

366
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,220
fitness I know he owns some really cool

367
00:15:04,860 --> 00:15:09,120
shirts and I know he he has great taste

368
00:15:08,220 --> 00:15:12,180
in food

369
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,199
whereas if I only feed you memes and

370
00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:15,380
gifts

371
00:15:13,199 --> 00:15:18,899
all you know is I'm funny

372
00:15:15,380 --> 00:15:20,459
you know and that's that's a start there

373
00:15:18,899 --> 00:15:24,540
there is nothing wrong with starting

374
00:15:20,459 --> 00:15:26,760
there that has gotten me pretty far but

375
00:15:24,540 --> 00:15:29,760
as I'm continuing to try and get people

376
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,779
to trust me with their money the stuff

377
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,940
that

378
00:15:30,779 --> 00:15:35,579
fuels their life

379
00:15:32,940 --> 00:15:37,500
I'm working on that good branding is

380
00:15:35,579 --> 00:15:40,320
taking it the step further

381
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:41,699
and becoming something more than the

382
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,760
funny guy

383
00:15:41,699 --> 00:15:48,480
becoming someone that you can trust to

384
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:51,360
take your money and return something of

385
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,000
equal or greater value and then not

386
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:58,920
disappear on you

387
00:15:53,000 --> 00:16:01,500
which is very tricky I imagine it well

388
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,380
in the process of creating I think what

389
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:08,040
most creators do is one they only talk

390
00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:09,779
when they have something to sell and so

391
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,360
that either means that they're talking

392
00:16:09,779 --> 00:16:13,500
all the time but only about what they

393
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,860
want to sell

394
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:18,959
which gets old really quickly even if

395
00:16:16,860 --> 00:16:20,940
you're a really nice person who wants to

396
00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:22,680
support the community you're going to

397
00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:24,779
get what's called Banner blindness which

398
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,579
is when you know the early computer days

399
00:16:24,779 --> 00:16:28,800
we had banners all the time on every

400
00:16:26,579 --> 00:16:30,600
website on the side and consumers

401
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,060
figured out a way to just completely

402
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,579
ignore them to the point where

403
00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:37,320
Impressions mattered zero the same thing

404
00:16:35,579 --> 00:16:39,779
can happen if you communicate over and

405
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,880
over and over again that you have

406
00:16:39,779 --> 00:16:44,579
something to sell also what can happen

407
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:47,399
is okay you did the kickstarter or

408
00:16:44,579 --> 00:16:50,160
whatever you've launched your YouTube

409
00:16:47,399 --> 00:16:53,220
series your podcast series and it's out

410
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,959
there and now you have you have all this

411
00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:56,880
other work you need to build you need to

412
00:16:54,959 --> 00:16:58,560
ship you're you're waiting for people to

413
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,740
show up and listen

414
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:04,559
and nothing's happening

415
00:17:01,740 --> 00:17:08,819
all right so on the like let's say you

416
00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:10,439
created uh ttrpg map set okay you you

417
00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:12,120
are now in the printing and delivering

418
00:17:10,439 --> 00:17:14,339
phase and you don't talk to your

419
00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:16,740
consumers for like three months so one

420
00:17:14,339 --> 00:17:18,959
is well they're gonna forget about you

421
00:17:16,740 --> 00:17:20,819
two is that's three months you're not

422
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:22,319
growing your audience for your next

423
00:17:20,819 --> 00:17:25,860
project

424
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:28,439
and you can expect your audience to stay

425
00:17:25,860 --> 00:17:31,799
in touch with you on their own volition

426
00:17:28,439 --> 00:17:34,620
stay and care about you and spread the

427
00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:38,160
word for you on platforms that you're

428
00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:41,520
mostly inactive on just just on on their

429
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:44,520
own charity you know the good branding

430
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,620
comes from being there even if it is

431
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:50,039
just funny gifts and memes

432
00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:52,020
okay at least you're still in the room

433
00:17:50,039 --> 00:17:53,700
even if you're not a big part of the

434
00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:55,620
conversation even if you're not putting

435
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:58,799
yourself in the spotlight

436
00:17:55,620 --> 00:18:01,020
uh you really can't over communicate

437
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:04,640
it's more that's Twitter is a cocktail

438
00:18:01,020 --> 00:18:06,720
party he's a kind of old saying where

439
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,240
you're you're there to have

440
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,700
conversations you can have opportunities

441
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,280
to plug and talk about yourself

442
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:15,960
but you're mostly there just to hang out

443
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,640
with the other cool people there and if

444
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,500
there was a guy in the room who was just

445
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,559
always whenever he opened his mouth

446
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:25,080
talking about his cryptocurrency

447
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:27,120
okay then he just launched or his nft

448
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,280
project okay that's what it feels like

449
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:32,880
you understand is that it's that one guy

450
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:35,640
in the room is just there to sell all

451
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,760
right it's not all networking it can

452
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:41,580
definitely be leveraged that way once

453
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:44,460
you've figured out a way to continue to

454
00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:48,480
contact and maintain some attention but

455
00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:50,400
that should not be the whole of their

456
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,059
experience with you

457
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,120
um

458
00:18:51,059 --> 00:18:55,919
I said a lot of words did I make sense

459
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:58,020
yeah yeah no absolutely it's this it's

460
00:18:55,919 --> 00:18:58,919
always this tricky balance and I and

461
00:18:58,020 --> 00:19:01,380
that's what I've been thinking about

462
00:18:58,919 --> 00:19:02,640
what I've been talking is that line

463
00:19:01,380 --> 00:19:04,440
between

464
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,179
the human being especially for small

465
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,020
creators like us you know one or two

466
00:19:06,179 --> 00:19:09,480
people

467
00:19:07,020 --> 00:19:12,660
the human being behind the mouse and

468
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:15,960
keyboard or behind the phone versus the

469
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:17,820
almost like Persona I guess you want to

470
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,460
well do you want to build a Persona do

471
00:19:17,820 --> 00:19:22,020
how how much do you should you distance

472
00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:24,720
yourself if you're trying to build a

473
00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:27,480
specific brand or a specific style of

474
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:31,140
thing and you know how much of the real

475
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:33,260
you should be a part of that

476
00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:35,940
is should should you do any

477
00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:38,400
disassociation between you the brand

478
00:19:35,940 --> 00:19:40,320
versus you the person I guess is a good

479
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,000
way to put it so a few things there

480
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,919
let's talk about strategy for a second

481
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,320
this is this is where the corporate

482
00:19:43,919 --> 00:19:48,059
means coming out if your strategy let's

483
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,720
say that you created a podcast let's

484
00:19:48,059 --> 00:19:52,980
call it an Esports podcast okay yeah if

485
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,660
that's the if that's the goal of the

486
00:19:52,980 --> 00:19:55,860
podcast you might want to end up selling

487
00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:58,559
that right

488
00:19:55,860 --> 00:20:01,559
and so you probably don't want to put

489
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:03,419
your name all over the place

490
00:20:01,559 --> 00:20:04,679
all right if your intention is to sell

491
00:20:03,419 --> 00:20:06,720
the product same thing with a game

492
00:20:04,679 --> 00:20:10,860
company of like if you have any

493
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:13,380
intention to in 20 years consider taking

494
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:15,059
a step back uh at whatever level of

495
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:17,039
success you're at and potentially

496
00:20:15,059 --> 00:20:19,020
passing it on to someone whether that be

497
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:21,120
a friend or someone who's looking to buy

498
00:20:19,020 --> 00:20:23,340
in you probably don't want to be the

499
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:26,640
sole face of that because Oprah couldn't

500
00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:28,440
sell the Oprah Winfrey show all right

501
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:31,980
what's the Oprah Winfrey Show without

502
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:35,520
Oprah is so if I make uh Apple White

503
00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:38,160
games it has my last name in it it's

504
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,620
probably gonna stay a family company

505
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:43,140
all right I have no intention of selling

506
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:44,460
it so I've put my name in it and while

507
00:20:43,140 --> 00:20:47,100
I'm at it I'm going to really put myself

508
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:48,720
in it my wife is an aspiring author

509
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:52,500
she's a she's a self-published Indie

510
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:55,860
author and so it makes all the sense for

511
00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:57,660
her to be as personal as possible with

512
00:20:55,860 --> 00:20:59,220
of course the caveat of don't do

513
00:20:57,660 --> 00:21:02,160
anything you're not you're not

514
00:20:59,220 --> 00:21:04,559
comfortable with sure you know which is

515
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,419
a hard sentence to say because you're

516
00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:07,580
going to find things to be uncomfortable

517
00:21:06,419 --> 00:21:10,919
with

518
00:21:07,580 --> 00:21:13,320
it's not comfortable all the time to

519
00:21:10,919 --> 00:21:14,760
talk about yourself all right and that

520
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,940
is something where I myself

521
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,980
will say that

522
00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:23,340
the modern consumer

523
00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:28,140
really values that vulnerability there's

524
00:21:23,340 --> 00:21:30,299
this hard line it is impossible I I am

525
00:21:28,140 --> 00:21:32,400
the professional here to tell you I

526
00:21:30,299 --> 00:21:35,220
don't have a silver bullet for this

527
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,840
everyone has their own line of what's

528
00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:38,700
talking about myself and it being

529
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,640
annoying because everyone thinks I'm I'm

530
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:42,539
talking about you know myself all the

531
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,120
time

532
00:21:42,539 --> 00:21:47,820
and what's talking about myself in a way

533
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:51,000
that at human connection

534
00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:52,679
the only real advice I can give you

535
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,580
is start with what you're comfortable

536
00:21:52,679 --> 00:21:57,120
with

537
00:21:53,580 --> 00:21:58,860
Take One Step Beyond do it more than

538
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,080
once do it a couple of times because a

539
00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:03,299
lot of times we try something once it

540
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,100
doesn't like do anything and we think

541
00:22:03,299 --> 00:22:07,380
okay well that didn't work try it a

542
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:09,000
couple of times try it for a week you

543
00:22:07,380 --> 00:22:12,120
may think that people are sick of seeing

544
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,940
pictures of food try posting what you're

545
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:17,400
having for lunch every day for one month

546
00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:19,260
and then if it FL if it's flat throw it

547
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,360
out the garbage but you might find that

548
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:22,919
it's actually something that people

549
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,140
interact with and you can start to

550
00:22:22,919 --> 00:22:26,640
circulate that into your content as a

551
00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:28,380
way of building your brand and building

552
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,140
reputation and humanizing yourself

553
00:22:28,380 --> 00:22:33,960
because I'll tell you something that's

554
00:22:31,140 --> 00:22:37,200
definitely true is that on our level

555
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,539
people do not want to buy from a logo

556
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,820
okay it's not like Starbucks where we

557
00:22:39,539 --> 00:22:43,919
can see a logo we can see a store we

558
00:22:41,820 --> 00:22:46,140
know what we're going to get okay when

559
00:22:43,919 --> 00:22:49,080
you're on Etsy when you're running a

560
00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:52,080
self Shop people are interacting with

561
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:55,380
you and they need to trust you because

562
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,780
you can't hide behind a logo because

563
00:22:55,380 --> 00:22:59,760
that logo does not have the top tier

564
00:22:57,780 --> 00:23:03,240
brand recognition this has millions of

565
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:06,720
dollars spent on it okay even in the

566
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:10,460
earliest days Macintosh Starbucks they

567
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:13,679
built the trust behind that logo

568
00:23:10,460 --> 00:23:16,799
through genuine action through trying

569
00:23:13,679 --> 00:23:19,500
hard for a good long while

570
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:21,059
until they could get to the point where

571
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:23,580
they could spend millions of dollars to

572
00:23:21,059 --> 00:23:25,919
just have it blasted into your eyes and

573
00:23:23,580 --> 00:23:29,700
ears so that you have a level of

574
00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:31,760
expectation for it so it I'm sorry I

575
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:35,640
don't have a good answer answer for you

576
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:37,740
it's a it's a personal balance and I

577
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,179
will say that I'm still working I'm

578
00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:40,260
always going to be working on finding

579
00:23:39,179 --> 00:23:43,380
that balance because as you get to

580
00:23:40,260 --> 00:23:45,059
different phases in your business you're

581
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:47,280
going to find that different things are

582
00:23:45,059 --> 00:23:50,220
required what got you here won't get you

583
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,080
there kind of situation so your strategy

584
00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:54,900
on branding and how much you communicate

585
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,280
with people is going to change over time

586
00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:59,159
and you're just going to need to

587
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,559
continually reassess and try new things

588
00:23:59,159 --> 00:24:03,360
and innovate and the good news is that

589
00:24:01,559 --> 00:24:05,039
from my experience with people on the

590
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:08,100
TTR BG space whether they're dice

591
00:24:05,039 --> 00:24:10,260
creators artists shirt makers ttrpg

592
00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:13,980
designers map designers that there's a

593
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:17,340
huge Marketplace they're all creative

594
00:24:13,980 --> 00:24:19,740
and I believe wholeheartedly that if

595
00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:21,840
they turn that creativity and innovation

596
00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:23,940
inwardly

597
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,700
that they're going to find out they have

598
00:24:23,940 --> 00:24:28,380
a lot more options and opportunities

599
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:30,960
than they might have originally

600
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:32,640
considered thank you for that there's

601
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,320
quite a few points in there that I

602
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,820
wanted to double down on and really

603
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,440
really like and hadn't thought about

604
00:24:35,820 --> 00:24:41,280
that Dynamic nature of it the fact that

605
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,020
how did you put it you put it better

606
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,880
than I ever could we'll get what got you

607
00:24:43,020 --> 00:24:46,919
to here today won't get you to your next

608
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,980
step tomorrow that funny thing I think

609
00:24:46,919 --> 00:24:52,020
is very useful and very important to

610
00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:54,000
have just knocking around in the back of

611
00:24:52,020 --> 00:24:55,140
your head and now I've sat back and

612
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,840
think about it just from my podcast

613
00:24:55,140 --> 00:25:00,720
journey I could but I know stretch of

614
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,919
them you know I'm not huge at all that's

615
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,480
not what I mean but even from starting

616
00:25:01,919 --> 00:25:06,120
from obviously we'll start at the same

617
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,980
place with zero fans and zero followers

618
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,780
from what I was doing then to what I'm

619
00:25:07,980 --> 00:25:13,820
doing now even that has changed just

620
00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:17,280
sadly by my own Instinct almost I guess

621
00:25:13,820 --> 00:25:19,380
in in the last two three years but it's

622
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,880
it's there's value there

623
00:25:19,380 --> 00:25:24,600
actively think about it rather than

624
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,039
letting it be a reactionary process and

625
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,140
the other thing I wanted to double down

626
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,059
on is you're absolutely right in that

627
00:25:28,140 --> 00:25:31,260
you say consumers today want that

628
00:25:30,059 --> 00:25:33,299
personable

629
00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:35,240
brand they want to help another human

630
00:25:33,299 --> 00:25:38,400
being basically yeah

631
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,539
we're all I think a little bit burnt out

632
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,200
with

633
00:25:39,539 --> 00:25:46,620
the big companies doing big evil things

634
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,840
and the money that you give them even if

635
00:25:46,620 --> 00:25:50,880
you're at a subway or at a Starbucks the

636
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,580
money that you're paying for that 99 of

637
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,960
it goes to the their Bank rather than

638
00:25:53,580 --> 00:25:55,760
the person that's actually given you the

639
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,200
service

640
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:02,700
and we're all a little bit burned out by

641
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:04,860
that process so having a face behind the

642
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:08,700
logo a bit more of an active face behind

643
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:12,000
the logo certainly our size is a huge

644
00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:13,860
Boon that single reason of hey I'm you

645
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,720
know the consumer can think I'm actually

646
00:26:13,860 --> 00:26:17,460
helping another human being here I've

647
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,919
made their day I've liked their tweet

648
00:26:17,460 --> 00:26:21,600
and that's someone on the other side of

649
00:26:19,919 --> 00:26:23,760
the of the world that's certainly how I

650
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,260
feel when when I get interaction is hey

651
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,640
someone else I've made someone else

652
00:26:25,260 --> 00:26:28,799
happy and they've been happy and that's

653
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,559
that's it that's that's like the most

654
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:34,080
fundamental human nature I think that

655
00:26:31,559 --> 00:26:37,380
there is in the world yes the one-to-one

656
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,880
of you know there are people let's just

657
00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:42,240
talk about my own experience here with

658
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:44,580
Kickstarter they are backing me they

659
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,799
know me they know my wife because I put

660
00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:48,840
pictures of us on there and I have

661
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:51,960
little bios and I talk about how

662
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,340
Kaelyn's been in the ttrpg space uh as a

663
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,919
consumer since she was a little kid

664
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:58,500
because her Jedi Master father had her

665
00:26:55,919 --> 00:27:00,480
nerding out with hero clicks and DND

666
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:03,539
since she was old enough to read and

667
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:06,240
write okay and I came in and I'm just

668
00:27:03,539 --> 00:27:08,820
got taken over by this is my wife

669
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,679
brought me into it all right became my

670
00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:12,120
dungeon master and I just decided that

671
00:27:10,679 --> 00:27:15,419
this was going to be a major part of my

672
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:17,039
personality now and they know me and I

673
00:27:15,419 --> 00:27:19,980
get to know them and I get to know

674
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:22,679
because they tell me that when I send

675
00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:25,620
them this hand packaged I'm we're

676
00:27:22,679 --> 00:27:28,620
putting love into this book all right

677
00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:30,480
packaged look if they Tweet back at me

678
00:27:28,620 --> 00:27:33,299
that they got it that they're excited

679
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:36,600
and everyone gets warm fuzzy feelings

680
00:27:33,299 --> 00:27:39,779
and you cannot get that at the corporate

681
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:43,140
level that's where us small people

682
00:27:39,779 --> 00:27:48,000
can we're one to one there's not this

683
00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:50,520
huge corporate ladder it's one to one it

684
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,080
still gets complicated because you know

685
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,080
I talk about like you can't hide behind

686
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:57,480
a logo we need our logo we need to be

687
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,220
Apple White games because we're two

688
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,900
people who have our own creative

689
00:27:59,220 --> 00:28:03,419
abilities

690
00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:05,820
um Kalyn is trying to grow as an indie

691
00:28:03,419 --> 00:28:08,940
author while also building all these

692
00:28:05,820 --> 00:28:11,279
great ttrbg stuff but not we're going to

693
00:28:08,940 --> 00:28:14,100
get people on the author's side who do

694
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:17,039
not care about the ttrpg stuff and vice

695
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:19,200
versa who want to play the ttrpgs but

696
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:21,480
have no interest in Reading not because

697
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,679
they don't like Kayla but because that's

698
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,440
just not what they're in the market for

699
00:28:22,679 --> 00:28:27,840
and so we have a hard time all right

700
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,460
we're in a very interesting place where

701
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,400
we have to build Caitlyn's brand

702
00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:36,059
completely separately where she her

703
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:38,880
faces she's her own logo while also

704
00:28:36,059 --> 00:28:42,000
working in tandem with Apple White games

705
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,400
and it's a fun little problem that

706
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,740
basically we've addressed by anything

707
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,600
game wise gets apple-like games and

708
00:28:46,740 --> 00:28:51,720
she's she's seen on there as a major

709
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,400
Creator but for her books it's all Kalyn

710
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:57,360
you will not see an Apple White games

711
00:28:53,400 --> 00:29:00,059
logo on kalin's books because it is

712
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:03,539
important that she is growing her brand

713
00:29:00,059 --> 00:29:05,100
in the publishing side and Apple White

714
00:29:03,539 --> 00:29:08,340
games will grow its brand on the game

715
00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:10,440
side so it can get it can get sketchy

716
00:29:08,340 --> 00:29:11,760
yeah yeah I'm sure it was just different

717
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,000
demographics isn't it at the end of the

718
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,799
day so it can it absolutely pays to in

719
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,880
that specific instance is to have those

720
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:21,899
two identifiable brands for the two

721
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,700
audiences and there might be some cross

722
00:29:21,899 --> 00:29:26,100
camera contamination between the two of

723
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:28,380
them but not always there certainly is

724
00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:30,659
our ttrpg backers our first collection

725
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:33,059
of short stories was set in the ttrpg

726
00:29:30,659 --> 00:29:35,940
world setting and that was to help Caleb

727
00:29:33,059 --> 00:29:38,700
be introduced to our backers as a writer

728
00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:40,740
of actual stories which we were smart of

729
00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:42,960
strategic yeah I'm going to go ahead and

730
00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:45,059
Pat myself on the back here what we had

731
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,279
was we started with short stories being

732
00:29:45,059 --> 00:29:49,380
added to the module material

733
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:50,700
so at the end of the module material as

734
00:29:49,380 --> 00:29:52,740
you're as you're playing through

735
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:55,320
everything you could also see through

736
00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:57,000
the eyes of someone who lived in that

737
00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:00,000
area that you're playing through and

738
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,320
they might even be an NPC that is in the

739
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,320
game that you're going to interact with

740
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:07,260
okay which to me deepens the immersion

741
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,299
makes an excellent play experience bonus

742
00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:12,179
it's a short story written by Kalyn

743
00:30:09,299 --> 00:30:15,000
Applewhite and so when we come back to

744
00:30:12,179 --> 00:30:17,159
you three modules later and say Hey you

745
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,260
know those three short stories we put in

746
00:30:17,159 --> 00:30:21,600
go back and read them if you like them

747
00:30:19,260 --> 00:30:24,240
we have a book with those three plus

748
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,220
like 12 more you know that you've never

749
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,260
read before and you're going to enjoy

750
00:30:26,220 --> 00:30:29,760
them that's another instance of like

751
00:30:28,260 --> 00:30:32,580
what gets you here won't get you there

752
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,600
if all we did was the short stories at

753
00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:35,460
the back

754
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,779
she's never going to be able to write a

755
00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:39,240
novel that way

756
00:30:36,779 --> 00:30:41,340
and also to heart back to the whole if

757
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,020
what got you here won't get you there a

758
00:30:41,340 --> 00:30:46,740
small note I want to add to that is like

759
00:30:43,020 --> 00:30:49,380
that applies everywhere what got you 300

760
00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:51,600
followers on any given platform is not

761
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:54,720
what's going to get you three thousand

762
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:57,419
is not what's going to get you 10 15

763
00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:00,539
000. I struggle with this okay I have

764
00:30:57,419 --> 00:31:04,140
realized if you feel that something's

765
00:31:00,539 --> 00:31:07,020
getting stale you're probably right

766
00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:08,700
you probably need to try new things and

767
00:31:07,020 --> 00:31:10,140
never be afraid to make mistakes because

768
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:13,140
as I've talked about on the marketing

769
00:31:10,140 --> 00:31:14,820
side if you uh decide that you're going

770
00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:17,159
to post pictures of food

771
00:31:14,820 --> 00:31:19,500
and no one interacts with it that means

772
00:31:17,159 --> 00:31:21,480
almost no one saw it which good news

773
00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:23,580
almost no one saw it

774
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,700
you know that's the wonderful thing

775
00:31:23,580 --> 00:31:30,240
about like specifically the social media

776
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:32,640
side is that by Design most people

777
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,740
aren't going to see your flops because

778
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,380
they're flops that's the death by

779
00:31:34,740 --> 00:31:40,919
definition they don't get seen much so

780
00:31:37,380 --> 00:31:42,720
feel free to test things feel free to

781
00:31:40,919 --> 00:31:45,480
make those little mistakes that you're

782
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,580
like okay great no one wants to learn

783
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,220
about Zack's tacos

784
00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:51,899
okay we we've learned that we can move

785
00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:53,640
on to the next idea

786
00:31:51,899 --> 00:31:55,279
you know let's see if they're interested

787
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,020
in Zach's cat

788
00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:59,880
well that's a chill file winner for sure

789
00:31:58,020 --> 00:32:03,199
but uh

790
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,199
[Music]

791
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:11,520
[Music]

792
00:32:09,140 --> 00:32:14,159
I think that's a huge a really really

793
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,620
really important point because most

794
00:32:14,159 --> 00:32:18,659
people most humans are we are people are

795
00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:21,000
scared to try new things most of the

796
00:32:18,659 --> 00:32:23,640
time again I'm generalizing but it's

797
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,980
scary you know fear of failure all the

798
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,740
usual academic stuff that's been talked

799
00:32:25,980 --> 00:32:31,080
about a million times before and that is

800
00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:33,120
doubly so for social media because

801
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,100
you're putting yourself out there on the

802
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,779
internet not just oh let me try and

803
00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:38,760
crochet something in my bedroom at home

804
00:32:36,779 --> 00:32:41,100
whoops didn't work oh well that's just

805
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,840
me that knows if I start putting things

806
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:45,179
on the internet loads and loads and

807
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,559
loads of people might know so that fear

808
00:32:45,179 --> 00:32:49,200
of failure is is

809
00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:51,419
magnified but what you've just explained

810
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,820
is that it's just a perception it's just

811
00:32:51,419 --> 00:32:56,520
perceived magnified because in reality

812
00:32:53,820 --> 00:32:58,980
it doesn't really matter as much it is

813
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,559
still more on display than if you were

814
00:32:58,980 --> 00:33:03,600
in your room so so here's here's talking

815
00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:06,360
some metrics so let's say that you post

816
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,960
a tweet and it's got 112 Impressions on

817
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,820
it okay think of Impressions like you're

818
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,019
driving down the highway and you go past

819
00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:14,880
the billboard

820
00:33:13,019 --> 00:33:16,320
you could probably not recite to me

821
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,659
every word that was on that billboard

822
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,980
most people do not that that is how it's

823
00:33:18,659 --> 00:33:21,179
like when you're scrolling through your

824
00:33:19,980 --> 00:33:22,440
phone going through Facebook Twitter

825
00:33:21,179 --> 00:33:24,600
Instagram

826
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,539
you're only actually stopping and

827
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,399
looking at a few things okay but yeah

828
00:33:27,539 --> 00:33:31,500
everything you scroll past that's an

829
00:33:29,399 --> 00:33:33,720
impression so of those whole hundred

830
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:35,399
Impressions you've got those people kept

831
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,960
scrolling they didn't even perceive what

832
00:33:35,399 --> 00:33:38,580
you said or that it was you which

833
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,320
becomes really frustrating once you've

834
00:33:38,580 --> 00:33:42,240
found some success

835
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,880
okay and you're trying to get as many

836
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,760
eyeballs as on you as possible but in

837
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:50,640
this instance it's a bonus when you're

838
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,860
trying new things the algorithms tested

839
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,019
out on small batches

840
00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:56,519
and if they do good in the small batches

841
00:33:55,019 --> 00:33:59,100
they start releasing it out to the

842
00:33:56,519 --> 00:34:00,659
bigger batches okay and it's all based

843
00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:02,159
on activity did you get people to stop

844
00:34:00,659 --> 00:34:03,480
for that impression did they interact

845
00:34:02,159 --> 00:34:05,039
with it did they share it did they

846
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,779
comment the more Rich the interaction

847
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:09,240
gets the better and the more people will

848
00:34:06,779 --> 00:34:12,060
see it but there's a gatekeeping quality

849
00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:13,440
of if those first hundred people just

850
00:34:12,060 --> 00:34:16,020
kept scrolling

851
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:19,200
there's your answer and guess what of

852
00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:22,560
those hundred people one or two

853
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,119
actually stopped to look at it ten

854
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,240
perceived it

855
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:30,060
one or two actually stopped to look at

856
00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:32,460
it and and probably did not think haha

857
00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:34,859
look at Zach he thinks that tacos are

858
00:34:32,460 --> 00:34:39,480
important I'm going to unfollow him

859
00:34:34,859 --> 00:34:42,359
immediately that that Noob the Casual

860
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,639
all right I'm a staunch an anti-taco

861
00:34:42,359 --> 00:34:46,740
person yeah this this doesn't agree with

862
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:49,080
me I am immediately retweeting this to

863
00:34:46,740 --> 00:34:51,119
my millions of followers about how bad

864
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:54,839
Zach is at marketing and his stupid

865
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:58,140
topics okay in all likelihood they

866
00:34:54,839 --> 00:35:00,359
either were like huh tacos moving on

867
00:34:58,140 --> 00:35:03,480
mm-hmm or like oh that's weird Zach's

868
00:35:00,359 --> 00:35:06,359
talking about tacos moving on they've

869
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,640
got more important things to do

870
00:35:06,359 --> 00:35:10,619
yeah yeah I think you know now we've

871
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,780
been thinking about it I think I've

872
00:35:10,619 --> 00:35:14,760
again not too mind trumpet too much but

873
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:17,460
I think I've kind of done this as well

874
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,560
so to talk to get a little bit um

875
00:35:17,460 --> 00:35:22,079
introspective for a second obviously

876
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,599
thinking correctly is just it's just me

877
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:27,960
uh

878
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:31,320
behind the logo so obviously I bleed out

879
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:34,200
the down low through the my thinking

880
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:37,380
critically socials and one thing that I

881
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,780
enjoy as a regular human being is you

882
00:35:37,380 --> 00:35:42,300
know nice craft beer and so on and so on

883
00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:44,040
and I have in the past when I've been at

884
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:47,700
a tap room at a brewery somewhere around

885
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:50,339
event I have tweeted you know a review

886
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:52,200
or a tag or something and in hindsight

887
00:35:50,339 --> 00:35:55,500
thinking back they never got huge amount

888
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:58,020
of interaction my new you know obviously

889
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:59,520
ttrpg stuff does get more interaction my

890
00:35:58,020 --> 00:36:02,359
new episode tweets they get a bunch of

891
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:06,780
interactions and yeah I just organically

892
00:36:02,359 --> 00:36:09,540
don't do them as much and I don't think

893
00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:10,800
that has negatively impacted me is I

894
00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:12,660
just wanted to provide a real world

895
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,940
example to to what you were saying of

896
00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:17,040
like I did it it wasn't like Earth

897
00:36:14,940 --> 00:36:18,540
shattering didn't you know triple my

898
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,880
followers because Stanley's talking

899
00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:23,400
about beer I can only presume people

900
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:27,000
went oh cool he's a Taproom in the UK

901
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:29,460
great good for him anyway moving on and

902
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,079
I

903
00:36:29,460 --> 00:36:34,320
okay whenever we

904
00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:35,940
we were like at a theater we'll try to

905
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,160
take me and kill and I'll take a selfie

906
00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:41,280
and we'll share that out there's cross

907
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,140
over there is that I I know a girl on

908
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,859
Tick Tock where literally all she talks

909
00:36:43,140 --> 00:36:50,040
about is d and d and top shelf liqueurs

910
00:36:46,859 --> 00:36:51,900
wow that's literally it is that she will

911
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,000
talk about dunes and dragons and the

912
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:57,180
other half of her videos is her sitting

913
00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:00,480
in front of a big table of dark Liquors

914
00:36:57,180 --> 00:37:01,980
and talking about it you have no idea

915
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,200
where your crossover is and you never

916
00:37:01,980 --> 00:37:06,599
will until you try something for example

917
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:09,119
personal experience I have found out

918
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:10,800
that if you like DND your propensity to

919
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:13,760
also like anime

920
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:17,460
is actually pretty high yeah because

921
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:20,700
whenever I post a how I would play this

922
00:37:17,460 --> 00:37:22,619
D and D this anime character as a DND

923
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:25,260
character on Tick Tock I've seen him

924
00:37:22,619 --> 00:37:28,079
yeah my follower count on those videos

925
00:37:25,260 --> 00:37:30,540
goes Skyrocket because people who like

926
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:33,359
anime see that and they're like wait

927
00:37:30,540 --> 00:37:36,060
that's my niche I didn't know this was

928
00:37:33,359 --> 00:37:39,720
my Niche but I this is my niche

929
00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:42,900
and they hop on over to me I never would

930
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,579
have known that if I hadn't tried

931
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:46,980
something different the first two videos

932
00:37:44,579 --> 00:37:50,160
turns two three or four videos of that

933
00:37:46,980 --> 00:37:52,380
were absolute flops but as soon as I

934
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,820
brought bakugo from my hero Academia

935
00:37:52,380 --> 00:37:57,119
into the mix

936
00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:59,579
suddenly it works that was probably six

937
00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:02,220
failures in by failures I mean it just

938
00:37:59,579 --> 00:38:04,200
didn't do like any different than my

939
00:38:02,220 --> 00:38:08,220
other videos and maybe even just did

940
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:10,380
blatantly worse yeah I I laughed earlier

941
00:38:08,220 --> 00:38:12,420
because I'm I'm looking around my office

942
00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:14,780
slash recording studio now and there's

943
00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:17,339
at least two anime posters

944
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:19,020
a couple of figurines knocking around as

945
00:38:17,339 --> 00:38:21,920
well so I was like yeah you'll eat all

946
00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:21,920
the money with that one that's

947
00:38:22,020 --> 00:38:24,500
faster

948
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:28,619
for those you've seen the streams uh

949
00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:32,820
yeah you're listening behind me my uh

950
00:38:28,619 --> 00:38:35,280
like Evangelion stuff so yes

951
00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:37,220
very true I have to say I'm living the

952
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:40,200
uh the niche right now

953
00:38:37,220 --> 00:38:41,480
it's a great t-shirt to sign living the

954
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,280
niche

955
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,460
yep that's it that's the decoy of the

956
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,460
episode

957
00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:54,060
lovely I wanted to talk briefly about we

958
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,680
mentioned you know the person behind the

959
00:38:54,060 --> 00:38:58,079
logo we've mentioned it in passing a

960
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,839
couple of times the logo obviously I've

961
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:02,099
got my my pink and purple aesthetic

962
00:39:00,839 --> 00:39:04,940
something I feel quite strongly about

963
00:39:02,099 --> 00:39:08,460
and and is easy to have a strong

964
00:39:04,940 --> 00:39:10,079
identifiable color so that's something

965
00:39:08,460 --> 00:39:12,420
I've been quite keen on from day one is

966
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:14,760
having that that pink and purple you

967
00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:15,839
know recognizable at a glance but I know

968
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,760
we've talked at length about how

969
00:39:15,839 --> 00:39:19,980
important the person behind the logo is

970
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,440
but I wanted to frame what we've talked

971
00:39:19,980 --> 00:39:24,480
about so far with a brief discussion on

972
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,099
quote unquote that initial gut feeling

973
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,200
that that Starbucks logo that Amazon

974
00:39:26,099 --> 00:39:30,660
logo that thinking critically logo what

975
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,820
can we do there how important is it what

976
00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:34,140
things should we look out for in a you

977
00:39:32,820 --> 00:39:36,720
know if we're thinking about rebranding

978
00:39:34,140 --> 00:39:38,040
or initially branding for those creators

979
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:41,640
that haven't put something out there yet

980
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:45,060
what some tips and tricks for building a

981
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:47,400
a recognizable and a decent logo yeah so

982
00:39:45,060 --> 00:39:49,140
again it depends a bit strategically on

983
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,940
what you want to accomplish as you go

984
00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:53,760
through for example if you're an

985
00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:55,800
Entertainer I think that

986
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,780
you probably want your face this is

987
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,780
assuming you're you're one of those

988
00:39:57,780 --> 00:40:03,240
entertainers who's multi-medium okay so

989
00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:04,560
your chosen medium is podcasting you've

990
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:06,000
done some of the content distribution

991
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,980
stuff that I've talked about in the

992
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,920
marketing campaign where you go beyond

993
00:40:07,980 --> 00:40:12,660
that Medium but but it's a core uh the

994
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,540
distribution comes from the core of the

995
00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:17,280
podcast okay there are other creators

996
00:40:15,540 --> 00:40:19,079
and artists out there who want to be

997
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,060
multimedium they want to be on theater

998
00:40:19,079 --> 00:40:23,640
stages they want to be singers they want

999
00:40:21,060 --> 00:40:26,640
to be on YouTube next to critical role

1000
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,440
they they want to be speakers up on

1001
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,440
stage they want to be authors they want

1002
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:34,260
to be a lot of things for them to

1003
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,119
restrict themselves to One logo probably

1004
00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:38,640
isn't going to be productive

1005
00:40:36,119 --> 00:40:40,619
but in this case like Apple White games

1006
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,180
we have a logo we are Apple White games

1007
00:40:40,619 --> 00:40:44,280
we're going to continue to do games

1008
00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:45,780
we're also doing publishing stuff we

1009
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,839
probably could have been Applewhite

1010
00:40:45,780 --> 00:40:51,540
Incorporated but we think but that might

1011
00:40:48,839 --> 00:40:54,720
have that would have slipped away some

1012
00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:57,480
of that that would have over barriered

1013
00:40:54,720 --> 00:41:00,359
the brand of it because now it sounds

1014
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:02,760
too professional too button up yeah and

1015
00:41:00,359 --> 00:41:05,880
so to answer your questions first think

1016
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:08,460
about what you want to accomplish two is

1017
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,079
that I will say that where the logo

1018
00:41:08,460 --> 00:41:12,900
really does help

1019
00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:14,820
is in that recognition I've changed my

1020
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:17,160
profile picture on Twitter a couple of

1021
00:41:14,820 --> 00:41:19,560
times realizing that for the first like

1022
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:22,380
three years I had a Twitter going my

1023
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:25,020
face wasn't on it and I also didn't have

1024
00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:27,599
a logo it was me with my back turned and

1025
00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:29,940
my son on my shoulders it was a very

1026
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:31,040
cute picture yeah with the dragon bow

1027
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:33,540
jacket

1028
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:36,000
we took that into the origins game fair

1029
00:41:33,540 --> 00:41:39,540
in Columbus it's very recognizable it

1030
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:42,420
had a bright orange but then my tweets

1031
00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:44,160
would go viral on Facebook because I did

1032
00:41:42,420 --> 00:41:46,140
the thing where I screenshotted a tweet

1033
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,900
and it went over to Facebook and it

1034
00:41:46,140 --> 00:41:51,660
would be everywhere but no one would

1035
00:41:48,900 --> 00:41:54,119
recognize me and because of where I want

1036
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:56,460
to be five years from now it is

1037
00:41:54,119 --> 00:41:58,740
uncomfortably important that people know

1038
00:41:56,460 --> 00:42:01,440
what my face looks like

1039
00:41:58,740 --> 00:42:04,200
that people see the Twitter and they can

1040
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,180
connect it to my Tick Tock yeah so on my

1041
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,940
personal Twitter I put my face for the

1042
00:42:06,180 --> 00:42:12,300
brand stuff to get back centered and

1043
00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:15,300
let's let's Zone in on that for the logo

1044
00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:19,859
yes you want to be eye-catching most

1045
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:22,980
importantly you need to like it I fully

1046
00:42:19,859 --> 00:42:25,140
just recommend liking it I'm doing some

1047
00:42:22,980 --> 00:42:28,200
stuff right now where test it come up

1048
00:42:25,140 --> 00:42:29,880
with variations put it on uh Twitter or

1049
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,680
Facebook and this is a one of the ways

1050
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,540
that you can interact with people and

1051
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,040
have them be a part of you and your

1052
00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:37,800
brand and what you're marketing through

1053
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:40,500
and what you're building is asking them

1054
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:43,280
their opinion that use that as a

1055
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:46,260
resource as much as you want people love

1056
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:49,200
to give you advice

1057
00:42:46,260 --> 00:42:51,900
okay everyone loves to have a moment

1058
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:54,000
where people want to hear from them so

1059
00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:56,099
ask that question as you're trying to

1060
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,500
build things up and that's honestly

1061
00:42:56,099 --> 00:43:00,480
because I'm not a graphic designer I

1062
00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:02,520
can't get you into like oh well here's

1063
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,099
the color theory I know that blue is

1064
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:08,040
trusting the green means fresh and that

1065
00:43:05,099 --> 00:43:11,339
red means hungry okay we have red heart

1066
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:13,680
on our on ours so clearly like I'm not

1067
00:43:11,339 --> 00:43:16,920
like professional red was just what

1068
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:19,619
matched our aesthetic you know and it

1069
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:22,560
stands out on like uh little materials

1070
00:43:19,619 --> 00:43:26,280
but in general

1071
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:28,980
keep it simple very simple not a lot of

1072
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:32,160
words yours is good okay it's got two

1073
00:43:28,980 --> 00:43:34,200
words on it it's got a form of a brain

1074
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,119
looking thing and I see a little 20 in

1075
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,740
there yeah and I don't see the 20 the

1076
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:39,980
first time I see it which frankly is the

1077
00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:43,440
most brilliant thing about your logo

1078
00:43:39,980 --> 00:43:46,260
is that I see something different when I

1079
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,940
look at it for the 20th time is that I

1080
00:43:46,260 --> 00:43:49,740
notice something something clicks that's

1081
00:43:47,940 --> 00:43:51,960
a surprise and Delight moment built into

1082
00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:53,940
your logo that's actually probably one

1083
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,880
of the most genius things you've done oh

1084
00:43:53,940 --> 00:43:59,280
so Applause for dinner thank you okay

1085
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,720
thank you I I'm allowed one flash of

1086
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,180
Brilliance a year and I think that was

1087
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,500
it and that yeah

1088
00:44:02,180 --> 00:44:05,940
that's the one inspiration for this

1089
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:09,420
adventure

1090
00:44:05,940 --> 00:44:11,880
um it did yeah that was it yeah but in

1091
00:44:09,420 --> 00:44:13,619
general you it's so easy I tried making

1092
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,680
a logo a little while ago I just over

1093
00:44:13,619 --> 00:44:18,720
complicate things so easily you want

1094
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:22,500
like two to three words maximum

1095
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:25,859
preferably one word okay or or if you

1096
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:28,200
can take out the word even better but

1097
00:44:25,859 --> 00:44:32,220
when Facebook Facebook's now just the F

1098
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:34,560
when it was starting out it was Facebook

1099
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:36,240
and I think it even had a little script

1100
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,619
underneath the Facebook to kind of

1101
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:40,800
explain what it was

1102
00:44:37,619 --> 00:44:42,119
so there might be a time you know in in

1103
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,160
a few years when we're the biggest

1104
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:46,440
gaming company or whatever not gonna

1105
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,380
happen where we could just have the end

1106
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,240
of Apple White games yeah you know and

1107
00:44:49,380 --> 00:44:54,060
it means something but in the beginning

1108
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:55,140
you need to say something like thinking

1109
00:44:54,060 --> 00:44:57,660
critically

1110
00:44:55,140 --> 00:45:01,140
all right and you need to have

1111
00:44:57,660 --> 00:45:03,440
preferably one Center image

1112
00:45:01,140 --> 00:45:06,180
all right so think about Starbucks again

1113
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:09,119
that has the name on it most of the time

1114
00:45:06,180 --> 00:45:10,880
but now if you see that little mermaid

1115
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:13,500
you know what it is

1116
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,740
that that to answer your question is is

1117
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:19,940
and I'm not brief about anything as

1118
00:45:16,740 --> 00:45:19,940
briefly as I can

1119
00:45:20,420 --> 00:45:24,960
that's my brand okay

1120
00:45:25,140 --> 00:45:29,760
um that that's it okay yeah I'll stop

1121
00:45:28,260 --> 00:45:32,640
talking or else I'll just say the same

1122
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:35,040
thing 14 times no no no no no

1123
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,780
um no thank you for that yeah it is oh

1124
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:40,380
God I'm gonna sound so pretentious now

1125
00:45:36,780 --> 00:45:42,540
but from from I had a vision is it all I

1126
00:45:40,380 --> 00:45:45,180
can say I had I had the idea of

1127
00:45:42,540 --> 00:45:46,920
obviously thinking critically brain

1128
00:45:45,180 --> 00:45:49,920
That's a classic that's a that's a

1129
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:51,900
common Trope but then I was like oh I

1130
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:55,140
could have the 20 natural 20 you know

1131
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:56,760
D20 whatever you want on the on the the

1132
00:45:55,140 --> 00:45:59,280
brain and then I've kind of got two

1133
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:02,700
things in one there and I was very lucky

1134
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:05,579
that my friend's wife who did the

1135
00:46:02,700 --> 00:46:08,700
artwork just knew instinctively from a

1136
00:46:05,579 --> 00:46:10,319
four or five sentence paragraph of me

1137
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:11,400
describing in words what I wanted and

1138
00:46:10,319 --> 00:46:13,619
that came out the other side one

1139
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:16,020
internet one iteration one and done boom

1140
00:46:13,619 --> 00:46:19,079
no no can you change that can you take

1141
00:46:16,020 --> 00:46:21,900
that oh it's just a round of applause

1142
00:46:19,079 --> 00:46:24,720
for her as well in the execution

1143
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:27,540
yeah yeah because I'm also definitely

1144
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:29,760
not a graphic designer um yeah so so

1145
00:46:27,540 --> 00:46:32,339
there's no way I was doing that at all

1146
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,380
um but yeah through my verbiage she

1147
00:46:32,339 --> 00:46:37,260
managed to pull out what I was after and

1148
00:46:34,380 --> 00:46:39,900
uh yeah it was it was spot on so uh

1149
00:46:37,260 --> 00:46:41,520
since then yeah I've just been very as I

1150
00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:43,560
said my one flash of Brilliance and that

1151
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,900
was a flash in the pan No I can't I

1152
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,339
can't do any other endeavors or new

1153
00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:49,640
businesses in the future because I

1154
00:46:47,339 --> 00:46:52,260
that's it I've peaked too early now

1155
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,480
I promise you haven't I'll also make a

1156
00:46:52,260 --> 00:46:57,119
quick note uh as quick as I'm capable of

1157
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,520
making uh because logo does get confused

1158
00:46:57,119 --> 00:47:02,940
for a brand sometimes and this is my

1159
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:04,680
quick analogy of where they differ okay

1160
00:47:02,940 --> 00:47:06,900
so branding originally comes from like

1161
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,060
marking pieces of wood or a livestock

1162
00:47:06,900 --> 00:47:10,020
with a symbol and that's simple Mark

1163
00:47:09,060 --> 00:47:13,760
ownership

1164
00:47:10,020 --> 00:47:16,500
and what does that ownership really mean

1165
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:20,579
is don't touch my stuff

1166
00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:23,099
so if you're leaving this brand of let's

1167
00:47:20,579 --> 00:47:25,859
say my name's McAllister everyone who

1168
00:47:23,099 --> 00:47:28,140
knows that McAllister branded goat if

1169
00:47:25,859 --> 00:47:29,880
you mess with his goat XYZ is going to

1170
00:47:28,140 --> 00:47:33,720
happen whether McAllister is a pushover

1171
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:36,180
or an absolute Terror the brand isn't

1172
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:38,640
the same thing if someone else someone

1173
00:47:36,180 --> 00:47:41,040
else can have their brand on their goat

1174
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:43,440
and it means he's a pushover we can

1175
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:46,500
steal his goat it'll be fine whereas if

1176
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:49,980
you take this goat with this brand it is

1177
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:52,680
not fine hmm okay he is coming after you

1178
00:47:49,980 --> 00:47:55,319
that's the analogy I use to help kind of

1179
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:58,800
separate logo from Brand because there's

1180
00:47:55,319 --> 00:48:01,740
a meaning behind what you see I love

1181
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,359
that when you look at the actual you

1182
00:48:01,740 --> 00:48:06,240
know the etymology of the word it's

1183
00:48:03,359 --> 00:48:07,740
always I keep it simple right it's how

1184
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,400
you know we open this discussion with

1185
00:48:07,740 --> 00:48:13,500
can you define branding for me and now

1186
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,000
we're almost closing it with what does

1187
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:17,040
it mean you still we still use it in

1188
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,660
that term like you go and look at cows

1189
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,400
out in the pastures and whatnot I know

1190
00:48:18,660 --> 00:48:22,260
we'll they'll be branded in the most

1191
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,780
literal sense of the word and it is

1192
00:48:22,260 --> 00:48:26,880
there is value to looking at that word

1193
00:48:24,780 --> 00:48:28,200
through that lens you know where where

1194
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,240
is it come from what does it mean and

1195
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,040
how can you apply that to what you're

1196
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:35,280
doing today and I'm kicking myself now

1197
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:37,560
for not doing that most basic research

1198
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,000
no it's fine I skipped over it I could

1199
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,099
have talked on it earlier but I skipped

1200
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,740
over it because I think that most people

1201
00:48:41,099 --> 00:48:46,680
instinctively nowadays uh just due to

1202
00:48:43,740 --> 00:48:48,000
like public uh Market conversation

1203
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,740
around branding most people understand

1204
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,880
that brand is different to logo they

1205
00:48:49,740 --> 00:48:52,859
just kind of know that they're yeah

1206
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,200
they're intertwined a little bit but

1207
00:48:52,859 --> 00:48:58,920
plenty of people have brand don't have

1208
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,359
Loco yeah so that that's where like I

1209
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,680
skipped over it there is one thing I

1210
00:49:00,359 --> 00:49:03,180
want to talk about because I know that

1211
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:06,480
we're probably getting close to the

1212
00:49:03,180 --> 00:49:08,940
wrap-up about really good marketing I

1213
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:12,780
want to talk about mistakes

1214
00:49:08,940 --> 00:49:15,480
because this is the part where branding

1215
00:49:12,780 --> 00:49:18,000
shines all right and I'll talk about a

1216
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:20,520
very recent personal experience is that

1217
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:24,480
we publish that short story of books

1218
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,800
yeah and though we read through those

1219
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,720
stories

1220
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:31,859
several times

1221
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:34,700
the very first story especially

1222
00:49:31,859 --> 00:49:38,119
had a number of typos I think we made

1223
00:49:34,700 --> 00:49:42,660
last run through edits on some sentences

1224
00:49:38,119 --> 00:49:46,140
that got misplaced and it really pulled

1225
00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:49,740
you out of the story in a bad way our

1226
00:49:46,140 --> 00:49:53,099
backers were gracious enough to tell us

1227
00:49:49,740 --> 00:49:54,839
I mean as nicely as possible these

1228
00:49:53,099 --> 00:49:57,599
Bankers have backed us before we have an

1229
00:49:54,839 --> 00:49:59,160
excellent backer return rate on our

1230
00:49:57,599 --> 00:50:01,319
Kickstarter because we've done good

1231
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:04,500
branding it really showed here because

1232
00:50:01,319 --> 00:50:08,880
they told us as nicely as possible

1233
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:11,280
okay hey there's some errors here that

1234
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:15,540
really impact my experience in a

1235
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:18,780
negative way now my first instinct my

1236
00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:19,920
lizard brain Instinct was are you

1237
00:50:18,780 --> 00:50:22,020
kidding me

1238
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,800
we've worked so hard on this like what

1239
00:50:22,020 --> 00:50:27,359
was just anger and defensiveness yeah

1240
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:30,300
luckily I

1241
00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:33,540
took a moment to step back and really

1242
00:50:30,300 --> 00:50:37,380
ask myself what needed to happen here

1243
00:50:33,540 --> 00:50:39,740
and so I came back to that person and I

1244
00:50:37,380 --> 00:50:42,599
thanked them as profusely as possible

1245
00:50:39,740 --> 00:50:44,160
that they said something that they

1246
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:45,900
noticed and they cared enough to said

1247
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,180
something because that says so much

1248
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:50,880
about how nice that person is and how

1249
00:50:48,180 --> 00:50:53,460
good we've done of leaving that door

1250
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:56,220
open that they felt safe sharing that

1251
00:50:53,460 --> 00:50:58,800
and that they gave us that opportunity

1252
00:50:56,220 --> 00:51:01,260
we went through again we did an audio

1253
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:03,540
listen through which we have now added

1254
00:51:01,260 --> 00:51:05,520
into the process of all of the books

1255
00:51:03,540 --> 00:51:08,520
that we have in production

1256
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,800
all right so we improved our process we

1257
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,079
thanked the person we could have just

1258
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,460
stopped there we update the ebook and

1259
00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:15,960
stop there because no one else was

1260
00:51:14,460 --> 00:51:17,579
complaining right and that's what most

1261
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,740
people would do they wouldn't have done

1262
00:51:17,579 --> 00:51:21,119
as much as we did there and then they

1263
00:51:19,740 --> 00:51:22,920
would if they did that they would have

1264
00:51:21,119 --> 00:51:24,540
stopped there put their head in the sand

1265
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,859
no one else is complaining so it's not a

1266
00:51:24,540 --> 00:51:28,020
problem maybe we don't want to make a

1267
00:51:25,859 --> 00:51:31,380
problem that doesn't exist right wrong

1268
00:51:28,020 --> 00:51:33,420
it's an opportunity to stand on a

1269
00:51:31,380 --> 00:51:36,660
pedestal and say hey

1270
00:51:33,420 --> 00:51:39,119
we made a mistake we promised you

1271
00:51:36,660 --> 00:51:41,940
something and we did not all the way

1272
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:44,520
come through and that is not our brand

1273
00:51:41,940 --> 00:51:49,020
when you do something that is not on

1274
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:52,020
brand call yourself out especially if

1275
00:51:49,020 --> 00:51:55,740
the people supporting you like you

1276
00:51:52,020 --> 00:51:58,500
enough to call you out in a nice way

1277
00:51:55,740 --> 00:52:01,020
because how many nice people on the

1278
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:02,240
internet will point out your mistakes

1279
00:52:01,020 --> 00:52:05,700
nicely

1280
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:08,339
so we stood out there we said listen we

1281
00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:11,220
cannot fix the physical books that are

1282
00:52:08,339 --> 00:52:14,880
already out there we apologize this is

1283
00:52:11,220 --> 00:52:17,940
not okay here is how we are improving we

1284
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:20,220
thank everyone for their patience with

1285
00:52:17,940 --> 00:52:22,559
us for their understanding that we are

1286
00:52:20,220 --> 00:52:24,420
small that it is just me and Caitlin but

1287
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:27,119
we're not using that as an excuse we're

1288
00:52:24,420 --> 00:52:29,819
improving our process we are going to

1289
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:32,160
update the ebook so that everyone else

1290
00:52:29,819 --> 00:52:35,400
who reads from now on can have a better

1291
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:38,400
experience and then that Improvement is

1292
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:41,220
solely thanks to you and we hope that

1293
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:43,980
you will continue with us on this

1294
00:52:41,220 --> 00:52:46,920
journey as we continue to try new things

1295
00:52:43,980 --> 00:52:49,260
make mistakes and make them better

1296
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,780
and so that's one thing is that I'm

1297
00:52:49,260 --> 00:52:55,200
going to say you're going to make

1298
00:52:51,780 --> 00:52:58,140
mistakes you're human but because you're

1299
00:52:55,200 --> 00:53:00,780
human and your audience knows it they

1300
00:52:58,140 --> 00:53:04,619
can forgive you it is harder to forgive

1301
00:53:00,780 --> 00:53:07,920
a logo when your coffee is made wrong it

1302
00:53:04,619 --> 00:53:09,839
is harder to forgive at T when your cell

1303
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,599
phone bill is incorrect

1304
00:53:09,839 --> 00:53:15,180
but forgiving Dan Lowe for forgiving

1305
00:53:12,599 --> 00:53:17,579
Zach and Kailyn

1306
00:53:15,180 --> 00:53:20,579
is much easier

1307
00:53:17,579 --> 00:53:22,559
by building good brand you give yourself

1308
00:53:20,579 --> 00:53:25,200
a little bit of wiggle room so when you

1309
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:28,079
make completely human mistakes it

1310
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:30,300
doesn't kill you it doesn't kill your

1311
00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:33,480
brand because what didn't happen was

1312
00:53:30,300 --> 00:53:35,339
that someone didn't read that drop us

1313
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,859
and say that they'll never buy from us

1314
00:53:35,339 --> 00:53:40,200
again which is the case for most people

1315
00:53:37,859 --> 00:53:42,780
who were hiding behind a logo

1316
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:45,119
because we put ourselves out there they

1317
00:53:42,780 --> 00:53:48,420
reached out to us not a customer support

1318
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:49,760
service to us and we were able to make

1319
00:53:48,420 --> 00:53:51,900
things right

1320
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:54,420
and that's just something I wanted to

1321
00:53:51,900 --> 00:53:57,180
communicate because that is going to

1322
00:53:54,420 --> 00:53:59,700
happen to everybody and they're going to

1323
00:53:57,180 --> 00:54:01,640
want to be angry and defensive and I

1324
00:53:59,700 --> 00:54:05,520
hope that they hear me in this moment

1325
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:08,400
and do the thing that's going to give

1326
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:10,559
them long-term success and genuinely

1327
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,640
make themselves feel better in the long

1328
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:16,220
term as well

1329
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:18,900
mm-hmm I'm a huge huge proponent of

1330
00:54:16,220 --> 00:54:21,240
accountability and transparency I

1331
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:23,819
advocate it in my my professional career

1332
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:25,740
and have done so for for many many years

1333
00:54:23,819 --> 00:54:28,260
perhaps I've worked with too many people

1334
00:54:25,740 --> 00:54:30,300
who's uh wear transparency and

1335
00:54:28,260 --> 00:54:32,460
accountability wasn't very high on their

1336
00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:34,680
list of priorities and so much so that

1337
00:54:32,460 --> 00:54:38,040
uh it's become a huge priority for me

1338
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:41,099
it's something I talk about work loads

1339
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,780
obviously working nine to five however

1340
00:54:41,099 --> 00:54:44,819
many hours a week you have a lot more

1341
00:54:42,780 --> 00:54:47,099
opportunity to make more mistakes so I'm

1342
00:54:44,819 --> 00:54:48,960
the first one to say hey whoops I forgot

1343
00:54:47,099 --> 00:54:52,200
to send that email or whatever it may be

1344
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:54,839
or the other side of that coin is then

1345
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,760
when you complement somebody or credit

1346
00:54:54,839 --> 00:54:58,559
somebody it has a lot more weight behind

1347
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,660
it because people know you're genuine

1348
00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:02,280
and honest and truthful also when I say

1349
00:55:00,660 --> 00:55:04,559
hey that person over there really helped

1350
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,780
me out or did a great job people go wow

1351
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:08,579
okay fair enough that's legit that isn't

1352
00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:11,460
pandering or you know any kind of

1353
00:55:08,579 --> 00:55:13,859
politics it's just straight up download

1354
00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:16,440
being honest which is my personal brand

1355
00:55:13,859 --> 00:55:18,000
that I really have spent a decade in a

1356
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,740
bit trying trying to build in my

1357
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:23,460
professional career and then I hope

1358
00:55:19,740 --> 00:55:26,160
shows somewhat in this podcast ttrpg

1359
00:55:23,460 --> 00:55:29,339
space that I am trying to build as well

1360
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:31,079
so that was like my first point and my

1361
00:55:29,339 --> 00:55:32,640
second point is my lizard brain was very

1362
00:55:31,079 --> 00:55:35,339
happy when you were saying there about

1363
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,380
your uh improving the process because my

1364
00:55:35,339 --> 00:55:38,880
project manager and me is like oh he's

1365
00:55:37,380 --> 00:55:40,319
done a Lessons Learned and they've

1366
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,000
they've iterated and they've improved

1367
00:55:40,319 --> 00:55:43,559
the process the next time that mistake

1368
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,420
isn't made or is less likely to be made

1369
00:55:43,559 --> 00:55:47,640
and I was like well I'd love to hear it

1370
00:55:45,420 --> 00:55:50,339
love to hear it

1371
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,660
so uh we we've yeah I'm super happy

1372
00:55:50,339 --> 00:55:53,579
today because we've talked a lot about

1373
00:55:51,660 --> 00:55:56,460
my two main things I want to talk about

1374
00:55:53,579 --> 00:55:59,160
one which was the person behind the

1375
00:55:56,460 --> 00:56:01,500
brand and then what it means to

1376
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,819
to put yourself out there and and how to

1377
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:04,140
put yourself out there and how to

1378
00:56:02,819 --> 00:56:05,520
conduct yourself online and all this

1379
00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:09,119
other kind of stuff so I'm super stoked

1380
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:11,280
we've really closed the loop on that

1381
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:13,260
discussion with your personal story

1382
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,880
there of of making that mistake and

1383
00:56:13,260 --> 00:56:18,119
again I feel that pain I've done

1384
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,740
dissertations in my life several

1385
00:56:18,119 --> 00:56:21,960
um that have been many many thousands of

1386
00:56:19,740 --> 00:56:25,200
words and having read the same thousands

1387
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:27,599
of words many many times 10th 20th

1388
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:30,960
reading you go how did I spell the word

1389
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:32,520
house wrong how is that even how could

1390
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,780
that even be possible it's like a

1391
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,579
cognitive dissonance you're like it's

1392
00:56:33,780 --> 00:56:37,260
impossible it's impossible that I've

1393
00:56:35,579 --> 00:56:39,000
read this paragraph that many times and

1394
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:41,220
have not noticed that word it is it's

1395
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:43,920
bizarre and Unthinkable someone's hacked

1396
00:56:41,220 --> 00:56:46,140
into my computer and changed and changed

1397
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,520
the wording so no it's a pain I feel

1398
00:56:46,140 --> 00:56:50,220
very much myself so thank you for

1399
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,300
sharing that anecdote there is there

1400
00:56:50,220 --> 00:56:52,980
anything you wanted to talk about that

1401
00:56:51,300 --> 00:56:55,859
we uh we might have missed or not gotten

1402
00:56:52,980 --> 00:56:58,140
to yet oh goodness gracious

1403
00:56:55,859 --> 00:57:01,260
um the problem with again like I said

1404
00:56:58,140 --> 00:57:04,440
earlier is that branding is such a huge

1405
00:57:01,260 --> 00:57:06,020
thing that this could have been a four

1406
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:09,180
episode series

1407
00:57:06,020 --> 00:57:12,540
but I do think that we have covered some

1408
00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:14,220
really valuable areas for those small

1409
00:57:12,540 --> 00:57:17,520
creators where they can do something

1410
00:57:14,220 --> 00:57:21,660
actionable by being honest by being

1411
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:25,559
forward by continuing to iterate on what

1412
00:57:21,660 --> 00:57:27,599
they're doing and by understanding where

1413
00:57:25,559 --> 00:57:30,660
to use their face and where to use their

1414
00:57:27,599 --> 00:57:33,260
logo I think that those areas that we've

1415
00:57:30,660 --> 00:57:37,740
covered are probably the most valuable

1416
00:57:33,260 --> 00:57:41,339
for anyone who isn't making a regular

1417
00:57:37,740 --> 00:57:43,099
over 10 grand in sales all right which I

1418
00:57:41,339 --> 00:57:45,300
know I'm not

1419
00:57:43,099 --> 00:57:46,920
when I get there I'll let you know what

1420
00:57:45,300 --> 00:57:49,579
you need to do when you're at that stage

1421
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:52,500
yes

1422
00:57:49,579 --> 00:57:55,079
well uh thanks well

1423
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:56,040
we can always have you on for uh you

1424
00:57:55,079 --> 00:57:57,480
know if you really want to secure

1425
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,280
yourself at the top of the podium as the

1426
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,020
most prolific guest then you know the

1427
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:04,920
fourth episode is always you know

1428
00:58:01,020 --> 00:58:09,260
waiting we can do uh more branding

1429
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:11,220
that is the plan I am 100 there so

1430
00:58:09,260 --> 00:58:12,720
usually at this point I say if there's

1431
00:58:11,220 --> 00:58:14,160
is there anything you would like to to

1432
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,420
plug or promote but I wanted to mention

1433
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,160
because you mentioned it earlier on

1434
00:58:15,420 --> 00:58:19,800
about the the last Kickstarter you did

1435
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:21,900
the heroes of Chronicles of airgrowth

1436
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,800
that's the one sorry yes because that

1437
00:58:21,900 --> 00:58:25,500
was in

1438
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:27,839
the previous episodes notes for

1439
00:58:25,500 --> 00:58:28,800
references to yourself so I you

1440
00:58:27,839 --> 00:58:30,240
mentioned it before and I was like oh

1441
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,680
yes I remember finding the link for that

1442
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,180
and popping it in the episode notes that

1443
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,819
was like oh I've helped a little bit

1444
00:58:33,180 --> 00:58:38,099
maybe I don't know but uh yeah it is

1445
00:58:35,819 --> 00:58:40,500
live on Amazon now the kickstarter went

1446
00:58:38,099 --> 00:58:42,359
great the good news is that we do have

1447
00:58:40,500 --> 00:58:44,460
stuff coming down the pipeline and I

1448
00:58:42,359 --> 00:58:45,720
have a surprise for you oh okay well let

1449
00:58:44,460 --> 00:58:46,920
me let me I don't want to rob you with a

1450
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:50,160
surprise so is there anything you would

1451
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:52,559
like to promote oh my goodness yes there

1452
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:55,319
is so the one that's not a surprise that

1453
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:57,420
uh we're in later this month of October

1454
00:58:55,319 --> 00:58:59,400
slash early November so I'm not sure if

1455
00:58:57,420 --> 00:59:01,079
the podcast episode will come out but if

1456
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,940
you're lucky you'll get to see our one

1457
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:05,099
dollar holiday special that we do every

1458
00:59:02,940 --> 00:59:06,780
year where we give a ton of value for

1459
00:59:05,099 --> 00:59:09,180
one dollar this one is the Willowdale

1460
00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:12,240
horror and that'll be live on

1461
00:59:09,180 --> 00:59:14,520
Kickstarter later on uh later in October

1462
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,920
slash early in November hope you can see

1463
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:19,260
it if you if not don't miss the next one

1464
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:22,260
follow us on Kickstarter the thing that

1465
00:59:19,260 --> 00:59:24,960
I am decided to just release on this is

1466
00:59:22,260 --> 00:59:27,839
that November November 19th I'm doing a

1467
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:32,819
live webinar oh wow on ttrpg marketing

1468
00:59:27,839 --> 00:59:34,799
for 2023 where I'm going to be doing a

1469
00:59:32,819 --> 00:59:38,579
there I've already started a lot of

1470
00:59:34,799 --> 00:59:41,579
research to help identify Trends tools

1471
00:59:38,579 --> 00:59:43,819
techniques insights and covering over

1472
00:59:41,579 --> 00:59:46,980
some of the news that's happened to help

1473
00:59:43,819 --> 00:59:49,200
ttrpg people just in the marketplace

1474
00:59:46,980 --> 00:59:52,260
again the dice makers the people that

1475
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:53,940
are making uh dice Towers holders module

1476
00:59:52,260 --> 00:59:55,500
creators everyone who's in the market

1477
00:59:53,940 --> 00:59:56,880
friendly local game stores everyone

1478
00:59:55,500 --> 00:59:59,099
who's in the market on trying to get

1479
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:01,799
value of here's where 2023 is going

1480
00:59:59,099 --> 01:00:04,280
because in America just like we're

1481
01:00:01,799 --> 01:00:07,920
dueling with recession marketing as well

1482
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:10,619
and I wanted to do a business marketing

1483
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:12,420
podcast for tabletop don't have the time

1484
01:00:10,619 --> 01:00:14,640
don't have the capacity but I know I can

1485
01:00:12,420 --> 01:00:17,400
once a year or even hopefully once a

1486
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:20,880
quarter this is the start where I can

1487
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:23,400
sit down take questions and just help

1488
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:25,619
people understand what's coming down the

1489
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,299
road and what they can do to react to it

1490
01:00:25,619 --> 01:00:29,819
so that's going to be happening November

1491
01:00:27,299 --> 01:00:32,520
19th Live on YouTube I hopefully around

1492
01:00:29,819 --> 01:00:34,799
10 a.m exact details will be on my

1493
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,140
socials you can follow me on Apple White

1494
01:00:34,799 --> 01:00:39,240
games on Twitter or you can follow Apple

1495
01:00:37,140 --> 01:00:40,140
White games on Facebook but Twitter's

1496
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,780
probably going to be the number one

1497
01:00:40,140 --> 01:00:44,760
place to contact me and I'm going to be

1498
01:00:42,780 --> 01:00:48,299
spouting that all over the place because

1499
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:51,059
I want everyone to go into 2023 with a

1500
01:00:48,299 --> 01:00:53,700
strategy in mind of how they're going to

1501
01:00:51,059 --> 01:00:55,520
succeed wow that is awesome you're

1502
01:00:53,700 --> 01:00:58,440
invited by the way

1503
01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:00,059
no that's that's awesome I'm stoked yes

1504
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,940
this episode will be out before then so

1505
01:01:00,059 --> 01:01:05,400
that's great awesome

1506
01:01:01,940 --> 01:01:07,140
uh yeah so as usual I'll put as many

1507
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,940
links as possible and hopefully by the

1508
01:01:07,140 --> 01:01:10,619
time the episode is we'll have all of

1509
01:01:08,940 --> 01:01:12,780
them can be can be in the episode

1510
01:01:10,619 --> 01:01:14,280
description as well as well as all of

1511
01:01:12,780 --> 01:01:16,559
Zack's socials so you can go and check

1512
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:18,780
them out on all that other stuff well

1513
01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:20,339
the only thing left to say is uh thank

1514
01:01:18,780 --> 01:01:22,440
you ever so much for joining us again

1515
01:01:20,339 --> 01:01:25,200
Zach thank you so much for having me I

1516
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:28,280
can not wait to return for number four

1517
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:31,380
whatever the topic may be at that time

1518
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:32,880
and so yeah if everyone's enjoyed what

1519
01:01:31,380 --> 01:01:35,400
we've talked about today you can go and

1520
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:37,680
check out the kickstarter and marketing

1521
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:40,020
episodes at thinking critical dot Co dot

1522
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:41,040
UK slash either Kickstarter or marketing

1523
01:01:40,020 --> 01:01:43,020
and that'll take you to those two

1524
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:46,799
episodes where we have gone into detail

1525
01:01:43,020 --> 01:01:49,559
well I say we have Zach mainly uh went

1526
01:01:46,799 --> 01:01:51,720
into into his expertise on those two

1527
01:01:49,559 --> 01:01:55,200
topics and I just listened and took

1528
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:57,059
notes like a good student should

1529
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,619
um so I I thoroughly encourage everybody

1530
01:01:57,059 --> 01:02:01,740
who's enjoyed today's episode to go and

1531
01:01:58,619 --> 01:02:05,220
check out those two otherwise thank you

1532
01:02:01,740 --> 01:02:06,780
all for listening and good night and now

1533
01:02:05,220 --> 01:02:09,839
it's time for the patreon shout outs

1534
01:02:06,780 --> 01:02:13,200
thank you to Joe from the fourth leg

1535
01:02:09,839 --> 01:02:15,660
podcast again two-time guests of the

1536
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,819
show and the fourth leg is a TT RPG

1537
01:02:15,660 --> 01:02:20,760
podcast all about giving new GMS a leg

1538
01:02:17,819 --> 01:02:23,460
to stand on please go and check them out

1539
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:25,920
at the fourth leg on Twitter

1540
01:02:23,460 --> 01:02:28,260
thank you to optional rule a two-time

1541
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:30,440
guest of the show and a very insightful

1542
01:02:28,260 --> 01:02:32,400
and knowledgeable source of information

1543
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:35,400
please check them out at

1544
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,400
www.optionalrules.com

1545
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:41,220
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1546
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:43,500
friend of the show Matthew Perkins who's

1547
01:02:41,220 --> 01:02:45,720
out there making hilarious and

1548
01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:47,760
educational Dungeons and Dragons content

1549
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:49,500
please go and check out his stuff at

1550
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,960
Matthew perkins.net where you can find

1551
01:02:49,500 --> 01:02:53,460
links to all of his socials and all of

1552
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,200
his content including his own patreon

1553
01:02:53,460 --> 01:02:56,819
which I would very much encourage you to

1554
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,819
check out

1555
01:02:56,819 --> 01:03:01,920
thank you to Matt Street at mp street88

1556
01:02:59,819 --> 01:03:03,359
on Twitter for supporting the show if

1557
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,839
you need support running your personal

1558
01:03:03,359 --> 01:03:08,280
or business schedule head to

1559
01:03:05,839 --> 01:03:09,839
virtuletimehustle.com or on Instagram to

1560
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:13,140
make that difference between should do

1561
01:03:09,839 --> 01:03:15,059
and done was it better time you've been

1562
01:03:13,140 --> 01:03:16,680
searching for if you would like to

1563
01:03:15,059 --> 01:03:18,900
support what we do and get four shout

1564
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:21,180
outs a month head over to patreon.com

1565
01:03:18,900 --> 01:03:23,400
thinking critically or you can just buy

1566
01:03:21,180 --> 01:03:25,660
me a coffee at kofi.com thinking

1567
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:32,680
critically

1568
01:03:25,660 --> 01:03:47,840
[Music]