Storytelling

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 20

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of thinking critically today's topic is

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storytelling

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by writer and

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podcaster sam bradley from the starter

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set studios thank you ever so much for

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joining us today sam can you tell us a

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little bit about yourself

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hello thank you very much for having me

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um

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yeah

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starter set studios

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used to be one podcast about dungeons

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and dragons where my incredibly

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knowledgeable friend ed sylvester hello

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ed

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um the sort of gimmick was

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i really wanted to learn about how to

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play dungeons and dragons and was quite

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in the world of fantasy and sci-fi and

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all the stuff you're supposed to be into

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to be into dungeons and dragons but i

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didn't know how to play and

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i got a new job

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and it was a really shitty job and the

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only benefit was ed sat behind me and

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one day i said oh i'd love to play

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dungeons and dragons and he got me he

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put his meat hook in me

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three or four years ago so that became

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the podcast and then that as i

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was learning to play the game i was also

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writing a campaign that became a

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campaign a homebrew campaign and then

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the series which we'll talk about later

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i think um tells a tarfage tarfage being

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the city that my homebrew campaign takes

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place in

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and

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that kind of grew as well into sort of a

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separate show that ran alongside

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starter set the show hence starter set

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studios and now

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start set the guide original podcast has

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ended a couple of months ago

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and we're starting a new project let's

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get schwarmer which is all about the

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impending marvel multiverse tabletop rpg

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which will be a guide show similar to

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start set and also a let's play that i

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think i'm going to end up gm'ing which

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is exciting um

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and yes so that's that's what i do i

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think aside from that i i am one of

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those forever dms that

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really likes to play but will not admit

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how much he likes the power of home

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brewing and and dming a homebrew

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campaign

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um but i'm someone that got into it very

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quickly very very quickly and very hard

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like i've only really been playing d

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for the last

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literally i think the first time i

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played was the week after we recorded

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the first three episodes of start set so

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two years three years something like

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that so yeah i'm

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i'm knowledgeable in

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in bits of it and then totally ignorant

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in other bits of it which i think

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everyone is if they're on this for

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themselves yeah yeah no i'm like

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obsessive as well and went

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hard and fast when i was when that when

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the floodgates opened and i had the phb

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that was that was game over for the rest

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of my hobbies

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there was a i used to have a podcast

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before starter set

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um that it doesn't run now and that's

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kind of how me and ed got to know that

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we had a bit of a thing on the mic and

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there was a moment i listened to it back

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actually because we put it out to our

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patrons a few months ago

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where

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he's explaining how the role play games

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work and i go oh so you could do

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anything and he goes yeah and i'm not in

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it for the rest of that conversation i'm

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like oh no this is this hobby's going to

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take over my [ __ ] life

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and it did

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i'm also feeling very attacked at your

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uh the thought there of um the pleasure

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you get from making a hungry world and

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leading players through it i think that

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is what keeps me coming back i have to

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say well yeah it's the art of leading

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isn't it

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that's the thing isn't it that's that's

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the thing that separates

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uh storytelling in a conventional level

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to

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storytelling in dungeons and dragons i

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think there's a difference and i think

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that

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as we'll get into i think further down

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the line in this podcast i think there

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is

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an art to both and there is crossover

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but there's also like crossover of being

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good and [ __ ] at both of them

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independently yeah well that

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i've thought of a question completely

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off the top of my head uh what what

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we're talking about storytelling what

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does that what does that mean to you

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what does what's storytelling mean to

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you in the dnd and why the ttrpg

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framework

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in

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i can talk only to dnd because it's the

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only ttp rpg that i've played uh so far

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specifically fifth edition because i'm

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that new in

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i think storytelling

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is

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hmm

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in d d the storytelling is

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a d d story is a puzzle

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in which pieces are kind of assembled

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outside traditional linear structure

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and i think if if you're looking for a

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definition of what is storytelling in d

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d

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that is it

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especially

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if you're talking

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homebrew

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because you are master of everything i

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think when you play books again massive

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holes in my knowledge i've never run a

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campaign from a book i don't know why

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you'd want to

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that's not me having a pop-up people who

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play next i get it if you don't have

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time to go hmm i'm going to invent a new

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sport you know or you're not insane

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enough to go what is the economic strife

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of tarthish like you know at three in

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the morning on a thursday yeah i get it

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i think

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speaking from someone who's only ever

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dm'd homebrew

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storytelling is the way that you give

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them puzzle pieces

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that are still fun as a story to play

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and we'll get into that more later i

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guess i'm saying that a lot for three

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minutes in

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but it's also it's it's breadcrumbs but

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not all the breadcrumbs are from the

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same bag but no matter how you lay them

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out they're still fun to follow mm-hmm

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wow a lot of a lot of uh metaphor there

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to unpack yeah

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[Laughter]

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tell me about these breadcrumb packs and

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why are they different breadcrumbs uh

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um

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so i asked i asked a couple of my my

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friends my fellow my table table fellows

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as i do often before most recording

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sessions you know i'm recording this

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topic what does it what does it mean to

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you to get a bit more of a holistic view

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rather than just downloads view

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and uh one of them said

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storytelling and by extension the story

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whatever that may be

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is integral to some but optional to

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others so how do you feel about

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which is broadly a topic on

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different players you know the game is

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different things to different players

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but how do you feel about that when it

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comes to specifically to like the story

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and how that story is told i mean i

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[ __ ] hate it but he's right they're

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right

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they are right and as as a writer

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outside of this but as someone who

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enjoys the art of crafting a story

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when you put it into d d and i think

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when you put it into anything really

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yes you have to kind of make your piece

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story is

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story is great story makes me happy

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story makes players happy makes some

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players happy some players

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want to turn up and kill something

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or they want a role play because they

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want to have that release of

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being someone else

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and the story a good story has to be one

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that can cater to both

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and i have been guilty of creating

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ones that are so

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[ __ ] obtuse

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that you deliver your you you kind of

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learn how to deliver your punches

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because you don't ever want to be trying

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to just outsmart your audience i think

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that's a really important thing

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but yeah to return to your point i think

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that player is absolutely right and it

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kills

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me

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but they are absolutely right and you

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have to to be a really good storyteller

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you have to make a story that if someone

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wants to jump in

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you know the homebrew campaign that i

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ran up until very recently tarthage had

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a big

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subplot about

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diverted funds and illegal use of

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government funds and through private

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companies who were all linked into this

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shady criminal organization

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and it was [ __ ] great and there was a

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couple of players who were like well we

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need to get down we need to get that

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accountant and we need to shake him down

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and we need to steal his logbook and we

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need to go through it and i was like

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[ __ ] a1

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there were other players who sort of

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said

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all right well when we get him in the

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room you want someone to brandish and

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axe at him and get him squealing

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or you want someone to do this or that

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give us a call and i was like no no no

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this is really good this is an allegory

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for real life please make my dreams

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matter

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ultimately though you kind of have to

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cut your cloth based on what people want

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to see and it's different to playing to

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the gallery but yeah i think going back

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to the original point i would totally

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agree and it kills me but to be really

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good

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you know some people go and see the

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latest spider-man

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and

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don't care

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why

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i don't want to spoil it it's only not

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been out that long why certain people

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are in it they just want to see

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spider-man jump around and flip and the

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masks go on

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and those people are fine

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they're right they have their place and

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those people who want to go oh well i

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think you'll find you know andrew

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garfield

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yeah because

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because it means something to them and

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both of those audiences have to be

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accommodated i would say so yeah it

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kills me but they're absolutely right

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as so there's a couple of things there

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that i wanted to talk about so one is

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how how do you do that well actually i'm

283
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,519
gonna take one step back from myself

284
00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:48,240
because i was gonna say as a dm how do

285
00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:49,760
you

286
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,360
do that and achieve that and facilitate

287
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,320
that however

288
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,440
that implies that it's the dm's job to

289
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,080
do that to

290
00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,399
to achieve that to make that happen now

291
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,839
how much of the balance is between the

292
00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:03,200
and the gm and the players then when it

293
00:10:01,839 --> 00:10:05,440
comes to

294
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,600
telling a good story to take the easy

295
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,560
way out of asking asking that question

296
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,640
well

297
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:11,920
i think the the teller of the story is

298
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,240
the dm

299
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,839
ultimately because players aren't

300
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,560
characters

301
00:10:15,839 --> 00:10:20,640
and that's if you're someone that goes i

302
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:22,079
have a great idea for a book

303
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,399
but i'm going to make it a dm i'm going

304
00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:25,519
to make it dungeon dragons campaign

305
00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:28,399
take out

306
00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:30,880
any kind of

307
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:33,200
assumption that those characters will do

308
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,200
what your characters did because they

309
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,200
[ __ ] won't because they're people

310
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,720
because they're humans by design

311
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,120
i think what

312
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:44,560
you've got to do as a dm

313
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,880
is bring them all the things they need

314
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,560
yeah so that they can't possibly [ __ ] it

315
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,880
up when they try and assemble it even if

316
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:53,120
they're using two different kits

317
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,040
and it's about having stories that sit

318
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,920
together and we'll go into that if you

319
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,160
like

320
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,959
because there is a difference in terms

321
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,160
of

322
00:10:58,959 --> 00:11:04,320
main storylines and sub storylines yeah

323
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,800
i do think it's

324
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,959
especially if you're homebrew

325
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,399
if you want to do it you've got you've

326
00:11:08,959 --> 00:11:12,160
got to [ __ ] do it

327
00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:14,399
there's no half measures because you are

328
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,480
i always say you're the xbox

329
00:11:14,399 --> 00:11:18,399
anyone can sit down i can sit on fifa

330
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:21,600
and score 20 own goals because the game

331
00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:24,079
allows yeah but you the game is running

332
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,880
the crowds the score the commentators

333
00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:29,200
everything else that's you

334
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:32,320
don't take dming like if you're

335
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:34,000
seriously into homebrew and again

336
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,279
running the books is different but if

337
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,720
you're home brewing you're kind of

338
00:11:35,279 --> 00:11:38,959
[ __ ] electing yourself to say i've

339
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,040
got something that's gonna be great

340
00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:43,040
because i want to sacrifice years of

341
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,360
wizards of the coast material

342
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,360
to say no no no no i i got this guy

343
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,399
going i know i know we're going to tell

344
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,480
you

345
00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:53,279
you keep you rest easy over there a team

346
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,959
of 20 authors and 40 editors

347
00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:56,560
okay okay

348
00:11:54,959 --> 00:11:58,320
i think daddy's got this it's fine yeah

349
00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:59,839
you've got a kind i think you do i think

350
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,519
i think you've got to lie and i'm not

351
00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:03,760
saying that every dm has to be held to

352
00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:05,519
this impossible [ __ ] standard

353
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,320
but i do think there's an onus where you

354
00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:10,160
go i've created a continent and i have

355
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,920
created everything within that continent

356
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,760
and you will exist in it and you will

357
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,279
have a rich and rewarding experience

358
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,600
yeah the players can't go around any

359
00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:20,079
murder hobos there's basic decency in

360
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,600
terms of how you play the game but i

361
00:12:20,079 --> 00:12:23,279
think you got

362
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,600
if they're gonna go if they're gonna zag

363
00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:28,000
when you want them to zig every time and

364
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:30,959
they might you gotta come correct

365
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,920
that's your job that's that's your job

366
00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:35,519
i think i'm very very very happy that

367
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,279
you have

368
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:40,160
clearly defined your hill and are

369
00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:42,560
willing to stand at the top and and

370
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,639
one star is nothing but opinions and

371
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,440
ed's kind of mediating with the audience

372
00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:47,200
um

373
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,680
no i just i think um

374
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:52,160
i just just why play around like

375
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:54,000
set expectations of yourself and set

376
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,560
expectations of your campaign because i

377
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,839
think if you if you do that then just

378
00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:00,320
everything's better isn't it the rising

379
00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:03,040
tide lifts all ships

380
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,480
i just know that there might be

381
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,200
some listeners and i know that there are

382
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,360
people out there that that are very

383
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,639
uh how can i put this

384
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,880
approach it from a different point of

385
00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:15,279
view is my political stance on the

386
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,760
matter in that that yeah

387
00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:19,680
they are very much like no the dm and gm

388
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,279
are not the storytellers they are just

389
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:22,639
the facilitators and it's the players

390
00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:24,399
and the characters that tell the story

391
00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:26,399
and it's or it's a

392
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:27,839
collaborative effort if you want to fall

393
00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:30,079
down yeah i mean

394
00:13:27,839 --> 00:13:32,839
it's of course it's a collaboration it's

395
00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:34,399
not and and here's where i'm i'm maybe

396
00:13:32,839 --> 00:13:37,519
betraying

397
00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:39,680
certain styles of my dming

398
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:42,959
but i had two of my players

399
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:44,320
and eddie's ed played in tarthage and he

400
00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:45,120
was having a chat with someone else he

401
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,720
played

402
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,839
in tarthage

403
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,519
and

404
00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:51,920
that person said

405
00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:53,360
you can sometimes feel when sam's

406
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,079
railroading you

407
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,920
know but it's so good you don't care

408
00:13:56,079 --> 00:14:00,639
and i kind of took that as a little bit

409
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,079
of a comp assault in as much as yeah i

410
00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:04,079
don't want to be seen to be railroading

411
00:14:02,079 --> 00:14:06,720
because that's not good damning but if

412
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:08,560
you do see the joins and you know and

413
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,079
the story's so rich

414
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,399
that you don't really give a [ __ ] and

415
00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:13,839
you're like okay [ __ ] it [ __ ] it let's

416
00:14:12,399 --> 00:14:16,560
do it mm-hmm

417
00:14:13,839 --> 00:14:18,560
fine cool that's are you having fun

418
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:20,480
that's great you know it's it's eddie

419
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:23,120
murphy isn't it it's um

420
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:25,680
giving a story about uh eddie murphy was

421
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,760
getting famous and doing his stand up

422
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,279
and he got a call off bill

423
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:34,320
crosby the even crosby and he said uh

424
00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:36,639
this was the 1980s um and he said i

425
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,399
think you should maybe tone down your

426
00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:40,079
language and tone down because you're a

427
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:41,519
young man and you can't and you're

428
00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:43,360
bringing a little

429
00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:45,120
and eddie murphy says he listened and he

430
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,720
nodded and he put the phone down and he

431
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,720
rung richard pryor

432
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,600
and he said uh richard

433
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,760
bill's called me and he said xyz and

434
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,079
rich pryor famously said tell me

435
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,519
something son do the people laugh

436
00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:58,880
and eddie murphy says yeah and he says

437
00:14:57,519 --> 00:15:00,720
we'll tell bill cosby have a coconut

438
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,320
smile and shut the [ __ ] up it's fine

439
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,000
and that was it and i think sometimes if

440
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,800
people are having fun

441
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,240
you did good yeah you did good i think

442
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,760
it speaks that example you just gave it

443
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,760
all that speaks to the

444
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,279
i don't like to use them the word but

445
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,279
the maturity of the expertise of the

446
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:18,079
players in that case as well who

447
00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:20,160
have the wherewithal to spot the seams

448
00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:21,600
which means that they know you know they

449
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,959
yeah are comfortable enough and

450
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,120
experienced enough with the game to be

451
00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:27,120
able to spot the seams but then also to

452
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,600
not make to be like okay i know what the

453
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,600
dm is trying to do here and i'm gonna

454
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,759
help them achieve it i trust them that

455
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,519
it's gonna be good because

456
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,279
i trust them because you always get a

457
00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,360
little you always get a bit of that

458
00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:41,120
because your players by and large going

459
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,360
to be people you know

460
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,959
my their their friends or

461
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,279
a lot of the people that were in the

462
00:15:44,959 --> 00:15:49,120
tarthage campaign are people who became

463
00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:51,120
friends through playing that campaign

464
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,040
and just meeting up and we became

465
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,279
friends through that they know that i

466
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,120
like marvel films they know i like the

467
00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:58,560
wire they know that i'm kind of

468
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,399
ambivalent to lord of the rings but i

469
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,079
[ __ ] love star wars

470
00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:03,759
they you know what you're gonna get if

471
00:16:02,079 --> 00:16:05,360
you're presented with certain things in

472
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:07,600
the game

473
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,680
if you know how that dm operates you're

474
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,880
going to go right yeah should we trust

475
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,880
big business or should we go with a

476
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,399
fluffy underdog well it's a sam campaign

477
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,560
so you know

478
00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:18,320
don't buy nestle products or whatever

479
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,160
yeah it's one of those things isn't it

480
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,160
you know you've got a kind of

481
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,399
and then i think then it does go on to

482
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,320
the players to suspend disbelief as much

483
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:27,920
as they can yeah the divide between

484
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,920
player knowledge and character knowledge

485
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,920
yeah then it becomes a collaboration

486
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,360
where you're both kind of

487
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,480
winking i'm the magician you're the

488
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,399
audience and we're both kind of

489
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,120
pretending because we don't really want

490
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:40,240
to see the joints yeah so let's let's

491
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,160
share in that and you've just got to

492
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,440
give them a good enough reason to share

493
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,040
in that

494
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,959
i don't really want to see you cut

495
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,880
someone in half with a bladed sword on

496
00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:50,560
stage but like

497
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,839
some people do and that's what a good

498
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,839
story is we've established that

499
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:59,360
so yeah now i i i think to put you at

500
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:02,800
ease in terms of both your dming style

501
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:04,720
and how you approach storytelling is

502
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,559
i am very much

503
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,319
on the same side as you which is [ __ ]

504
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:09,919
for the show sorry listeners because now

505
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:11,360
we're both on the same side

506
00:17:09,919 --> 00:17:13,600
but

507
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:16,799
got it

508
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,240
um but i i do think sometimes it is

509
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:20,240
you know i've spoken to dms before her a

510
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,439
little bit tentative and they're like oh

511
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,360
i've got this planned but i don't know

512
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:25,039
if that's you know too much or not

513
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:26,720
enough or i don't i don't consider

514
00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:29,200
myself a storyteller and i always like

515
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,600
to think like nah like

516
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,400
it is like you are it's fine you can

517
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,480
definitely

518
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,320
have that moniker as well as the 20

519
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,679
other hats you have to wear when you're

520
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,520
when you're sitting behind the screen

521
00:17:37,679 --> 00:17:42,160
and one of them can be

522
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,320
you know storyteller uh you know you

523
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,520
just happen to hold that storytelling

524
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,200
torch for 75 percent of any given

525
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,640
session and the rest of the 25 percent

526
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,640
is spread between the players and i

527
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,320
think if anyone's complaining that maybe

528
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,320
they're characters and this might be a

529
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,840
controversial thing actually here we go

530
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,200
so if you if you wanted that difference

531
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,840
you wanted that free

532
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,440
strap on guys um i i hate star wars and

533
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,799
i love lord of the rings i don't but

534
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:09,679
yeah i hate people and i hate dragons um

535
00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:10,960
no i think if you've got a point

536
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:13,200
where

537
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,200
you need your character to do a thing i

538
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,919
had a i had a and i won't go into the

539
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,960
details there was a point in tarthage

540
00:18:17,919 --> 00:18:22,559
the campaign after ages

541
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,120
where

542
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:26,480
all the characters were in a room

543
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:28,000
and they had to push a button to do a

544
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,440
thing i don't want to tell you what the

545
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,280
thing was because it sounds [ __ ]

546
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,039
ridiculous and it might come into the

547
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,039
show at some point

548
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:37,280
they had to push a button

549
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:40,160
and two of the characters wanted to

550
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,120
and two of the characters didn't want to

551
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,480
now

552
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,080
i have nothing

553
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,120
for if they don't push that button

554
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,080
because they've got to push the button

555
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,120
because they're pushing the buttons the

556
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,120
story

557
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:50,320
but they pushed the [ __ ] button

558
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,000
because the story was good enough to

559
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,840
convince them that up until that point

560
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,120
across the 70 or 80 sessions or whatever

561
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,480
it was

562
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,919
was that

563
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,760
you have to push a button

564
00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:01,600
and that you know how the world works

565
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,200
you know how people around you work you

566
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,480
know the stakes because i've given you

567
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,919
the stakes

568
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,360
and i've shown you examples of the

569
00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:08,799
stakes i haven't told you the stakes

570
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:11,280
i've shown you because that's all good

571
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:12,720
storytelling is showing not telling yeah

572
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,559
and they push the button

573
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,080
so if they're not pushing the button you

574
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:18,160
have to ask yourself first of all you

575
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,760
have to act and go oh [ __ ] there's a

576
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,360
reason i need to import something

577
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,360
quickly to make them push the button and

578
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:26,720
that's that's dungeon mastering

579
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:28,559
but storytelling you have to set you can

580
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,960
build the door and make it as inviting

581
00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:32,080
as possible and your job is to do those

582
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,440
things well enough that they want to

583
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,960
walk through it they want to push the

584
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,400
button and it feels like a natural thing

585
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,480
very well put

586
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,240
just trying to unpack there like

587
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,039
i'm always flattered in a way because i

588
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,720
do that well i dm for that that people

589
00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:48,160
have found fun for 70 plus sessions as

590
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,520
well uh it's a long time you've heard

591
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,760
the homebrew isn't it yeah yeah so

592
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,600
clearly people are happy about it like

593
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,919
they keep coming back uh

594
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,080
and in fact they're fools

595
00:19:55,919 --> 00:19:59,280
as a fact i've spent a lot of the last

596
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,280
two weeks

597
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,480
this is recorded beginning of january

598
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,600
planning

599
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,039
for the return of the camp you know

600
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,280
we've had our christmas holiday i think

601
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:09,280
the last time we played was maybe like

602
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,440
three you had a bit weeks ago so

603
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,559
planning for that okay that was really

604
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,320
good [ __ ]

605
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:16,400
it was the end of a chapter sort of

606
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,080
absolutely perfect timing boss battle

607
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,840
you get the mcguffin everybody's happy

608
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,520
boom yeah we'll see you in three weeks

609
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,360
because it's christmas and new year's

610
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,360
in that boss battle i mean the two

611
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,880
characters died so

612
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:28,640
i spent a lot of the last two weeks

613
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,400
helping those guys build new characters

614
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,840
you know they're starting at level 10 so

615
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,360
there's an additional overhead in the

616
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,880
backstory of like

617
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,240
how are you level 10 like you haven't

618
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,000
just woken up one day and gone i guess

619
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,520
i'm a paladin today

620
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,720
i've got access to fifth level spells

621
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,559
like it doesn't

622
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,000
yeah yeah yeah where was doctor strange

623
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:45,600
and with the soldier man yeah

624
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,919
[Laughter]

625
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,440
yes exactly so i've had to put a little

626
00:20:47,919 --> 00:20:51,679
bit you know work with them to be like

627
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,880
what have you done for the last x years

628
00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:56,400
to get you up to level 10. anyway um

629
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,320
but that is

630
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,440
what i've lost my train of thought i was

631
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,720
just too excited talking about the start

632
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,799
of my new campaign which i guess is a

633
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,799
good thing

634
00:21:04,159 --> 00:21:06,320
um

635
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,440
but no i've been so i've been working

636
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,000
with them and this is actually a good

637
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,280
question that's going to bring me on to

638
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,360
can you

639
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,440
discern a difference or perhaps describe

640
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:19,360
the difference between

641
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,559
world building and storytelling

642
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,480
yes

643
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:25,039
i think and i'm gonna

644
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,520
playfully but firmly draw your attention

645
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:29,280
to the tales of tarthish podcast

646
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,200
of which two series are available from

647
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,720
the link at the bottom of the show

648
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,440
with the first series of tales of

649
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,600
tariffage there was a lot i got to a

650
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,360
point where i had written

651
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,120
nine episodes

652
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:43,039
and it was the story everything you

653
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,559
needed for the story was in those nine

654
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:46,320
episodes and they were they were they

655
00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:47,360
were nine episodes and i think if you go

656
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,880
back and listen to the first series

657
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:50,400
you'll be able to tell which nine were

658
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,080
written yes

659
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,280
in a good way i

660
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,720
i think and people who listen to the

661
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,880
show they keep coming back so they must

662
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,799
like it too right or is that painfully

663
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,720
blindsided anyway

664
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:02,080
i had those nine episodes or eight or

665
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,360
nine episodes

666
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:08,159
and it was the story and we the acts of

667
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:11,120
act one episode one play out

668
00:22:08,159 --> 00:22:13,600
to fruition to the cliffhanger that

669
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:15,360
became the season finale

670
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,280
and i looked at it and i just went it's

671
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,600
too [ __ ] thin

672
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,360
there's too much

673
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,200
implied knowledge

674
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,280
now it's very hard to get away from that

675
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,480
because i've lived in that city in my

676
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:32,240
head yeah for years

677
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:34,559
and years and i know why

678
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,720
xyx happens on a thursday and not on a

679
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:39,919
saturday for example

680
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:41,679
and i sort of looked at the the story

681
00:22:39,919 --> 00:22:42,960
and it opens with quite i think anyone

682
00:22:41,679 --> 00:22:44,559
who's listening to it

683
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,120
will know the first three episodes of

684
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:48,480
bang bang bang very

685
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,159
this happens that happens then this

686
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,840
happens just to chill out

687
00:22:50,159 --> 00:22:54,559
and i had to pick a point where i was

688
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,480
gonna go i'm gonna have to put what else

689
00:22:54,559 --> 00:22:58,240
do i want to show people and this is

690
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,440
where world building over storytelling

691
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,559
comes in

692
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:05,039
and i spoke to my my beautiful wife

693
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:06,799
who has to endure all kinds of absolute

694
00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:08,000
nonsense like i'll walk into the bedroom

695
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:09,520
at half a level enough she hasn't seen

696
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,000
me all day and i go

697
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,159
it's friday there's ninjas it's gonna be

698
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,080
fine and then walk out again

699
00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:18,480
and she said what else do you think is

700
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,240
important to that world and i said well

701
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,760
we've got to show them the relationship

702
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,520
between the watch

703
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,440
and the public because it is all

704
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,600
intended purposes a police procedural

705
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,200
show by way of middle earth

706
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,960
we've got shown the the relationship

707
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,120
between the watch and the public

708
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,440
okay what else

709
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,799
we do need to sort of show them

710
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,159
xyz

711
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:39,520
and we need to show them a little bit

712
00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:41,279
more of these characters so it can

713
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,200
inform so when these characters make

714
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:45,760
decisions

715
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,279
in the future people don't go

716
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,480
i thought i had a bead on that person

717
00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:49,919
yeah

718
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,240
so i think to answer your question

719
00:23:49,919 --> 00:23:54,320
storytelling is the but is the bones and

720
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:57,760
it [ __ ] needs to be there because a

721
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,440
bad story with lots of filler gets you

722
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,159
i mean i haven't had enough wine to slag

723
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,320
off enough projects or ips but

724
00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:07,440
we all know what bad storytelling with

725
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,760
lots of the style looks like yeah right

726
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,679
i think world building

727
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,440
is kind of the skin and the flesh and

728
00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:16,000
the bones and it makes it sexy and it

729
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,240
informs and it kind of gives your

730
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,159
your people your listeners your viewers

731
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,840
your audience

732
00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:25,360
a way in and it makes them feel

733
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:27,600
confident um you know why why are the in

734
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:30,840
tarthage we had the watch they're the

735
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:33,039
police force why are they always [ __ ]

736
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,159
miserable because they're not trusted by

737
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,279
the public

738
00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:36,799
why

739
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:38,880
here's why

740
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:40,000
and here's an episode which explains

741
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,320
that not

742
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,919
you know someone in front of a white

743
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,919
board which would be the easy way out to

744
00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:48,480
go hello and welcome to watch training

745
00:24:45,919 --> 00:24:49,840
101 lesson one why does the public

746
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,279
[ __ ] hate us

747
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,720
you don't do that you have to and this

748
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,559
is where you know there are fundamental

749
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,400
laws of storytelling show don't tell

750
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:58,799
being the most [ __ ] obvious one

751
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,720
and i wrote this episode

752
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:01,520
to delineate between the two and to sort

753
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,240
of

754
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,440
make myself feel good in the process

755
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:09,279
i wrote an episode that delineated

756
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,480
and showed why the public didn't trust

757
00:25:09,279 --> 00:25:12,320
the watch

758
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,480
and people messaged me about the episode

759
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,760
ago that was a [ __ ] good episode and

760
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,000
i go

761
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,919
and nothing happens really

762
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,120
and that kind of informed because with

763
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:23,200
tarfage

764
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,279
you have like the first two each episode

765
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,840
is about six seven pages long the first

766
00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:29,360
two to three pages are like a vignette

767
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,520
like a little

768
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:33,520
something to character talking we see an

769
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,120
interaction that informs the world and

770
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,039
sets a narrative time for the rest of

771
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:39,120
the episode so i'm letting you be on the

772
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,960
curt now but i'm not if this is just

773
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:43,760
good storytelling

774
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,840
and i think it became again to return to

775
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,360
storytelling versus world building

776
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,640
i would look at an episode and i've got

777
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:50,720
seven pages

778
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,320
two to three have to be world building

779
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,559
that little vignette at the beginning

780
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,919
yep and the other

781
00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:59,679
four or five have to be story

782
00:25:57,919 --> 00:26:01,440
and you can always tell when that and i

783
00:25:59,679 --> 00:26:03,760
can tell listen to targets oh [ __ ] i

784
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,360
need to tell some more story because you

785
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,039
you get it out of what i think good

786
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:08,480
target episodes i think good episodes of

787
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:12,240
anything like that

788
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:14,480
have that mix they inform 30 40

789
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,760
and entertain 67

790
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,760
so i think the difference is

791
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,279
they go hand in hand but one is

792
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,120
ultimately more important

793
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:24,559
because how many times have you seen a

794
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:27,120
film and gone

795
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:29,919
it's a shame man their max was [ __ ] the

796
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:32,320
story was just good premise good story

797
00:26:29,919 --> 00:26:34,000
but wasn't very well executed

798
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,600
no one comes out and goes it [ __ ]

799
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,320
looked beautiful but it was dog [ __ ]

800
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:41,039
really and still say on top of that oh

801
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,640
but then i enjoyed it yes i mean no you

802
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:45,120
don't want moulin rouge

803
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,039
you don't want moulin rouge

804
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,200
that's that's today's sound bite is you

805
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:50,559
don't want moulin rouge

806
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,840
because it's great but you look and you

807
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:53,600
go do you like what happened half an

808
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,799
hour i don't know [ __ ] it was obi-wan

809
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,640
singing i don't know

810
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,240
i know what would you would you concur

811
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,760
with that would you draw that same line

812
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,760
of divine what do you think um

813
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:09,360
you've you've cracked my host defense

814
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:10,320
very well uh

815
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,360
but uh

816
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,360
it's

817
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:15,440
the lines are a lot more blurred for me

818
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:17,760
and perhaps it's because of my uh

819
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,679
inexperience shall we say like i'm i

820
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,760
enjoy writing things

821
00:27:19,679 --> 00:27:23,760
god knows how good they are um so i

822
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,080
struggle with

823
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,080
actually he is in my defense what i

824
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,760
struggle with is really identifying

825
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,360
which is which so i'll write a whole

826
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,200
bunch of stuff you know maybe an

827
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:35,360
encounter maybe a they go here and

828
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,840
here's the paragraph i say to the

829
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:40,240
players that explains the the

830
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:43,760
that is very much a here's what you see

831
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,600
when you arrive at this city xyz abc uh

832
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,360
and someone says can i check for traffic

833
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,279
shut the [ __ ] up i have a few more lines

834
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:51,440
then you can check for traps actually

835
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:52,640
i've been really fortunate on that uh i

836
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,080
have to say

837
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,080
that's about six players

838
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,520
they humor me enough now to know like

839
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,080
we'll let him do his thing and then and

840
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,559
then we'll check my drops i did five

841
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,640
once and that was way too much

842
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:10,320
five was just

843
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,440
it was six but entering into the new

844
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,760
year one's taking a a brief hiatus so he

845
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,360
is uh is down to five again and we'll

846
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,320
see how that will affect the dynamic

847
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,520
yeah

848
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,039
but i

849
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,279
like

850
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:25,039
building and uh

851
00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:27,679
planning you know interesting characters

852
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:28,960
interesting settings interesting

853
00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:30,320
you know the way they act the way

854
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,640
they're going to talk and i think a lot

855
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,640
of that is well building to a certain

856
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,559
extent because it's you know they go to

857
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,080
this elven city that's floating up in

858
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:40,880
the sky i mentioned several times in the

859
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,720
show before that it's very much like

860
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,039
dalaran from world of warcraft or like

861
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,039
hogwarts but a flying city up in the sky

862
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:48,799
and there's brooms that are

863
00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:50,960
brushing the streets you know

864
00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:52,080
automatically there's holographic maps

865
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,559
that you know you just look at and

866
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:57,200
little red pulsars tell you where to go

867
00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:59,600
on the map to go to your destination and

868
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,279
that's fun to think and build in that

869
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,200
and so that also sets the scene then to

870
00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:05,120
get this is you know you are clearly in

871
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,720
a place that's full of magic

872
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,039
and people that can that's the thing

873
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,600
isn't it that's a really that's a really

874
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:13,360
good example i think an example i just

875
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,559
rattled on about was

876
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,159
about tarfage as an audio see an audio

877
00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:19,919
play series

878
00:29:18,159 --> 00:29:21,440
which would go onto a little bit later

879
00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:23,520
if you want but

880
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,200
i think to take that out and think about

881
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,159
how i would play that you're absolutely

882
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,480
right with the things that you the

883
00:29:26,159 --> 00:29:31,039
examples you've just given like tarthish

884
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,919
has floating carriages but only certain

885
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:35,679
parts do why don't they doesn't matter

886
00:29:33,919 --> 00:29:37,360
there is a reason but if they ask the

887
00:29:35,679 --> 00:29:39,120
question well these poorer areas don't

888
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,120
have subway stops

889
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,240
cool there's a reason that informs the

890
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,559
world

891
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,000
you know there is magical industry but

892
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:47,039
there's way more magic in the western

893
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,000
quarter because there's a shitload of

894
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,520
money

895
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,440
and there isn't there's loads of

896
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,399
hollowed-out mines that don't run

897
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,120
anymore in the southern district why is

898
00:29:54,399 --> 00:29:56,720
that

899
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,799
never really said

900
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,039
but it's referred to people aren't

901
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:02,799
dumb people get the inference so no i i

902
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:04,799
agree with you there it's it's there's a

903
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:06,960
shitload more opportunity to world build

904
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:08,960
when you're straight dm'ing yes yeah

905
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,159
yeah and oh that reminded me definitely

906
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,520
of another thing i wanted to mention

907
00:30:10,159 --> 00:30:16,240
that that separation of dm knowledge is

908
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:19,279
that is the ongoing problem for every dm

909
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,200
ever is so like it's it's it's almost an

910
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:23,520
impossible one to solve because there's

911
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,919
no way how do you mean

912
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,000
uh like you said like it's hard for

913
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:29,679
a classic example is

914
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,440
oh i set this thing up and my players

915
00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:32,880
didn't go for it or i did this and for

916
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,799
some reason they went they went the

917
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,360
other way or they just or they did

918
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:39,279
murder this person but it's so obvious

919
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,720
so obviously that was the innocent

920
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:43,520
person

921
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,360
and that in various different forms and

922
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,080
various different examples and settings

923
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,760
and

924
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,000
variables but

925
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,440
like it's so hard to disassociate

926
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,960
yourself from what or to try and

927
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,799
understand what the players know which

928
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,320
is like another filter another layer in

929
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:57,360
between what they're actually gonna try

930
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,399
and second guess what they're actually

931
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:03,120
gonna do yeah i think that's something

932
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:04,960
that i've counteracted in not not really

933
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,559
consciously

934
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,760
but in tarfish the the the players they

935
00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:11,919
play

936
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,200
uh if you listen to the show there's

937
00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:15,279
four people of what's called an

938
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,039
extraordinary crimes unit

939
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:18,960
and the premise of the campaign is that

940
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:20,559
you are four members on that and that

941
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,519
was never up for discussion because i

942
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:22,720
didn't know what i was doing when i

943
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:24,000
started dm i didn't know there was such

944
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,519
thing as a session zero where they could

945
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,279
say well actually i want to be no no

946
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,480
you're part of the police

947
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:30,960
right

948
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,399
and in doing that what the police do

949
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,640
whenever they find a clue they go back

950
00:31:32,399 --> 00:31:36,640
to the office and they say right

951
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,120
what do we know

952
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,600
and re and hearing you say that is i'm

953
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,519
kind of glad i'm a much of a lucky idiot

954
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,799
as i am because they were always forever

955
00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:46,559
going

956
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:48,240
the first or last half an hour every

957
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:50,159
session was

958
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,840
right so he was [ __ ] involved and we

959
00:31:50,159 --> 00:31:54,080
know he was there but we don't trust him

960
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,679
and i'm like right this is because that

961
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,840
always gives the opportunity to go well

962
00:31:55,679 --> 00:31:59,919
if that's what you think you know

963
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,640
and there hasn't been a bust up for a

964
00:31:59,919 --> 00:32:04,240
little bit i'm gonna i'm gonna turn that

965
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,080
and it was that he wasn't the innocent

966
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,600
father that bloke with the the

967
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:11,120
children's heads on spikes he was

968
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,960
innocent he was just not understood

969
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,679
you are a lucky bastard for having that

970
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,480
setup that allows you to hear you know

971
00:32:15,679 --> 00:32:20,399
so lucky and never i don't want anyone

972
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,080
this is my request i don't want anyone

973
00:32:20,399 --> 00:32:23,760
to listen to this show

974
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,519
and think that because i'm relatively

975
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,320
articulate about storytelling i'm

976
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:30,799
anything other than an average dm i've

977
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,519
been gifted with wonderful players

978
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:34,880
and my best friend who i do a d podcast

979
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:37,120
with is sat

980
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,279
exactly to my right every time and when

981
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,519
i someone says what's the fall damage of

982
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:44,320
six people falling at 300 feet i can go

983
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:46,080
i don't [ __ ] know ed and ed will go

984
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,360
page no no no no it's like having a

985
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,480
director of film and a director of

986
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,880
photography

987
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,320
always but he's also in the movie so i

988
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,159
don't want anyone to think i'm some sort

989
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,360
of savant dm because i'm yeah i can

990
00:32:54,159 --> 00:32:57,679
absolutely not

991
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,519
what i do have is a i think a good

992
00:32:57,679 --> 00:33:01,039
understanding of story and i think that

993
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:02,159
kind of

994
00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:03,679
you know sometimes you know you're being

995
00:33:02,159 --> 00:33:05,760
railroaded but you don't give a [ __ ] so

996
00:33:03,679 --> 00:33:07,679
i must be doing something right in that

997
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,039
mm-hmm yeah just just to pre-face

998
00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:10,740
everything i've said for the last 40

999
00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:14,019
minutes

1000
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:14,019
[Music]

1001
00:33:16,610 --> 00:33:25,200
[Music]

1002
00:33:22,399 --> 00:33:27,519
but like so many times i've

1003
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,600
you know you you get players that will

1004
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:31,519
latch on to one obscure

1005
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,039
throwaway comment you made as a dm like

1006
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:35,039
50 sessions going out oh but that last

1007
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:36,159
time we spoke to him they said this and

1008
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:39,360
i'm like

1009
00:33:36,159 --> 00:33:40,720
did they did i did i say oh [ __ ] yeah of

1010
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,960
course that's gonna completely color

1011
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:46,320
your next interaction [ __ ] brother

1012
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,720
that have the same name kind of

1013
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,000
and it's it really does explain you know

1014
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,240
when they

1015
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,240
i know i've had it before like if an

1016
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,080
npc's acting a certain way and they are

1017
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,760
struggling to

1018
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,519
vibe or to interact in it in an

1019
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,519
effective you know communicate in an

1020
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:03,600
effective way and i'm like this

1021
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:05,519
in my head i'm like this person isn't

1022
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,399
clearly you know an obnoxious

1023
00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:10,320
holier-than-thou intelligent that

1024
00:34:08,399 --> 00:34:12,079
thinks they're cleverer than everybody

1025
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,200
whereas all they've had so far is hello

1026
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:14,320
would you like to come in and drink some

1027
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,079
tea

1028
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,000
so to me when they're being overtly

1029
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:19,599
obnoxious to the players that's fine

1030
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,280
that's just who this character is but

1031
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:24,800
the players they're like oh this guy's a

1032
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,800
knob and we're gonna have to kill him

1033
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,520
but there again i think in

1034
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,720
tarfridge the campaign was never high

1035
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,679
fantasy

1036
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:35,599
so i automatically took the option of

1037
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,599
this guy's a prick let's cave his head

1038
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:40,240
in and hide him in the bushes

1039
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:41,520
i all but took that off the table

1040
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:42,879
because you can't do that if you're a

1041
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,560
police force

1042
00:34:42,879 --> 00:34:46,800
because the premise of the first session

1043
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,119
of tarfish was a one shot and it was

1044
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,399
catch the killer and

1045
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:52,800
for those of you who have listened to

1046
00:34:50,399 --> 00:34:55,280
the first two series of tarfage

1047
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,599
that is what that is that campaign was

1048
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,359
that there's the election

1049
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:00,800
it's not a great city

1050
00:34:59,359 --> 00:35:02,640
there's a religious

1051
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,680
flighty plug and there's someone

1052
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,280
wandering around skinning people

1053
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,960
now you can dive into that other [ __ ] as

1054
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,640
much as you want and it will help you or

1055
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,800
it won't

1056
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,320
but you have to catch a killer

1057
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,920
and that's the thing that's the story

1058
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,920
the story is there's a guy doing wrong

1059
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,680
and you gotta solve it

1060
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,599
and that's ultimately the story and i

1061
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,960
think people get very

1062
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:24,560
like you sort of said like oh it's

1063
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,800
obviously this and i have this plan for

1064
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:30,240
this cat this npc and it's gonna be like

1065
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,480
a little learning curve about the world

1066
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:34,160
good great and i think that i do love

1067
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,440
that kind of [ __ ] like he comes in he's

1068
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,720
got all these books none of that you

1069
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,160
noticed that you know wrote a perception

1070
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:39,839
check he noticed that while he has all

1071
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,839
these books none of them have been read

1072
00:35:39,839 --> 00:35:43,359
they're all very dusty that informs

1073
00:35:41,839 --> 00:35:45,200
character

1074
00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:46,960
i think ultimately sometimes you have to

1075
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,400
remember what the story is you're

1076
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,240
telling yeah

1077
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,400
and i think that's when because people

1078
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:54,079
sort of latch onto that um

1079
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,400
is it joseph campbell you know there's

1080
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:58,720
only seven stories yes man versus nature

1081
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,640
man versus machine man yes himself which

1082
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:02,000
i think is the only story really but

1083
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,520
whatever

1084
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,960
you kind of have to roll it back and go

1085
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,720
well this

1086
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,960
this is the thing you know like it's

1087
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,880
moving on slightly to another project

1088
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,480
that starts at studios has coming up the

1089
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,520
let's get schwarmer

1090
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,440
marvel multiverse tabletop rpg

1091
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,520
we're doing a let's play

1092
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,320
and i'm gonna be the games master for

1093
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,240
that

1094
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,920
and i was thinking about i'm like oh kid

1095
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,520
in a candy store i can have any marvel

1096
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,720
villain i want and i can do today it's

1097
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,839
going to create his character and it's

1098
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,200
going to be great we're going to set it

1099
00:36:29,839 --> 00:36:32,480
in chicago and we're going to do all

1100
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,560
this

1101
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,960
and i had to stop myself and go

1102
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,880
what is the story

1103
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:42,240
let's think about the character the

1104
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,320
league character ed's custom-made hero

1105
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:46,320
what do they want because that will

1106
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,160
inform the kind of story

1107
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,520
and then from there you build the world

1108
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,599
from there you go right well we want

1109
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:55,119
some this is the theme

1110
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:57,760
okay well what characters fit that theme

1111
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:59,920
i really want carnage but it don't fit

1112
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,520
so you don't get it and if you force it

1113
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:03,200
he'll feel it

1114
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,280
so don't do that

1115
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,480
you see what i mean no i think as you

1116
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,040
said it's like seeing the wood for the

1117
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,200
trees right it's so as as a home brewer

1118
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,040
it is so exciting and something i formed

1119
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,280
out of before is just to run

1120
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,839
run run run away and build all this

1121
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,160
extra extra cool stuff and it is so easy

1122
00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:21,680
to lose sight of but what is meant to be

1123
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,760
happening here what is you know all the

1124
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,839
bells and whistles

1125
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,599
and the brooms

1126
00:37:25,839 --> 00:37:29,359
brush sweep the streets by themselves

1127
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:31,280
all that kind of stuff can sometimes

1128
00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:33,760
obfuscate the

1129
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,880
the journey that we're trying to go on

1130
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,720
together

1131
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,960
and i think that's that's a really

1132
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,480
good way that you said that like

1133
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,599
for example having carnage in is that

1134
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,680
gonna

1135
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:45,680
serve the story or

1136
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,720
take away from the story and then it's a

1137
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,480
simple decision exactly i think um

1138
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:52,640
i've been getting into cooking recently

1139
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,200
i'm a huge fan have been for a long time

1140
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,640
the the late great anthony bourdain and

1141
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,000
someone asked him once how do you make a

1142
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,000
great burger

1143
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,000
innocuous question for a chef of

1144
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,680
renowned skill and he says

1145
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,520
before you a burger should have lettuce

1146
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,400
it should have a patty it should have uh

1147
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,000
tomato and i will allow you mayo

1148
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,160
don't use a brioche bun

1149
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,560
before you're gonna add bacon or any

1150
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,720
kind of cheese ask yourself

1151
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,400
am i making this better or am i doing

1152
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:20,320
this for me

1153
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,560
and i think that some of you you should

1154
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,520
in did you should do that in all facets

1155
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,839
of life

1156
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,599
and i think with a d campaign

1157
00:38:25,839 --> 00:38:30,400
and the story telling through which it's

1158
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:32,400
like yeah you could

1159
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,520
you could have your final boss

1160
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,720
be

1161
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,839
a

1162
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,440
big

1163
00:38:35,839 --> 00:38:38,640
world nd

1164
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,520
thanos

1165
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,440
figure

1166
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,800
who comes in and says i am everything

1167
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,359
you are not

1168
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,640
and that's why you got to stop me

1169
00:38:45,359 --> 00:38:49,119
or

1170
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,280
you can have your villain be and this is

1171
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:53,280
this is how the tarthage campaign ended

1172
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,280
and for those of you who enjoy the show

1173
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,400
this is not how the show will end don't

1174
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,079
worry

1175
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,280
the end of the campaign was remember

1176
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:02,160
that big button i was telling you about

1177
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,760
earlier it was a time machine uh-oh jump

1178
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,800
the shark yeah [ __ ] right you

1179
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,079
remembered you're damn right with the

1180
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,240
last thing we did

1181
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,680
they went back in time to stop this

1182
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:10,720
warlord

1183
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,800
right because they've gone out into the

1184
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:14,880
jungle for whatever reason and they just

1185
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,440
heard about this story about korvax

1186
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,119
callbacks this guy this this he's coming

1187
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,880
he's raised the five armies of hell and

1188
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:24,000
he's coming to target you need to be

1189
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:26,480
ready does it does it does it

1190
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,400
so they go back in time to stop him

1191
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,400
they go back in time and they have a

1192
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,160
little bit of life on mars for our

1193
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,480
american audiences it's like a time

1194
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,920
traveling cop show where someone goes

1195
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,440
back in time and they get to like meet

1196
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,040
their parents and it's kind of back to

1197
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,640
the future but with more sort of

1198
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,599
aggression it's a cop show anyway it's

1199
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,960
great

1200
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:44,960
and they have all these little they meet

1201
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,560
their gruff police chief as a younger

1202
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,160
person a new recruit and there's a lot

1203
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,119
of back and forth there because he was

1204
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,119
dead in their time

1205
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:56,079
they tracked this guy down

1206
00:39:53,359 --> 00:39:57,359
to a farm in the northern territory and

1207
00:39:56,079 --> 00:40:00,079
they're like this guy's going to come

1208
00:39:57,359 --> 00:40:03,359
out [ __ ] bangkok ready he's a warlord

1209
00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:05,760
in 20 years he's joseph stalin but with

1210
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:07,680
an infinity gauntlet essentially

1211
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,280
and they turn up

1212
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,960
and he's just bloke

1213
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,480
and he says hello

1214
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,160
are we all the you're the people from my

1215
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,520
dreams i've been having these weird

1216
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,160
dreams

1217
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,680
and the whole party went

1218
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,440
oh

1219
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,079
um

1220
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,119
are you such and such and he goes uh

1221
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:26,400
yeah

1222
00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:28,400
and they go well

1223
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,400
have you ever heard of corvax and he

1224
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,079
goes yeah yeah it's a um

1225
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,839
i was in the military there was a

1226
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:35,920
village called corvax and we were

1227
00:40:33,839 --> 00:40:37,040
ambushed and then you watch the penny

1228
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,359
drop and they go [ __ ] that's where he

1229
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,960
got his name when he goes mad that's

1230
00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:42,560
where he got his name from

1231
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,839
and he goes um

1232
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,440
well i suppose we've got a lot to talk

1233
00:40:43,839 --> 00:40:47,839
about do you want to

1234
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,560
do i come in for some tea

1235
00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:53,040
and all of them went

1236
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,640
yeah okay and that was the end of the

1237
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,800
campaign

1238
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,079
and that was it and they made the choice

1239
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,079
and they had comment they said just

1240
00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:01,280
[ __ ] sit tight mate

1241
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:02,640
and they were having conversations like

1242
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,160
we can't kill him for something he

1243
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,920
hasn't done yet yeah i was gonna say is

1244
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,599
that is that where it got to yeah that

1245
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,319
where it got to me they made the choice

1246
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:11,680
in game to stay in the past

1247
00:41:10,319 --> 00:41:13,280
and watch him

1248
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,599
so if he ever looked like he was going

1249
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,000
bad they'd intervene

1250
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:20,480
and that i think bringing it all the way

1251
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,920
around to storytelling again

1252
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,280
that i think is a way better story than

1253
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,400
evil

1254
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,410
bang

1255
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,520
no more evil

1256
00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:30,720
[Laughter]

1257
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,480
call me i don't know call me

1258
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:34,160
old-fashioned i just think that's a bit

1259
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,599
it's a bit richer i think everyone gets

1260
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,880
a bit more out of that

1261
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:38,720
i don't know what do you think i've

1262
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,240
talked for another 20 minutes

1263
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,359
uninterrupted

1264
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:45,040
for the listeners i actually just

1265
00:41:41,359 --> 00:41:46,960
stepped away for 10 of those minutes and

1266
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,480
it's a girl playing notes and crosses

1267
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,839
with a clown for those of you

1268
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,800
well coming out they're all british deep

1269
00:41:51,839 --> 00:41:54,800
cuts today i love it

1270
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,040
now go ahead please don't need eighty

1271
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,800
percent of the audience that's cool

1272
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,040
absolutely yeah

1273
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,960
i enjoy squarespace as a sponsor too

1274
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,920
anyway

1275
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,880
um

1276
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:11,760
no i i i agree there is a richness and a

1277
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,400
depth there that is

1278
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,680
sometimes not always sometimes lacking

1279
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,000
in a

1280
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:21,119
two-dimensional good versus evil story

1281
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,359
however the overhead on the storyteller

1282
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:25,040
or the dm depending on how you describe

1283
00:42:23,359 --> 00:42:27,920
it is a lot more there is a lot more

1284
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,359
there you need to of course so it's it's

1285
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,599
a trade-off

1286
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:33,200
and here's where i'm gonna counter you

1287
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:34,880
and say this is this is this is the

1288
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,800
reason why some people play published

1289
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,319
modules is because they're like [ __ ] i

1290
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,000
don't do anything that nonsense i just

1291
00:42:38,319 --> 00:42:41,680
wanna yeah

1292
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,200
and there's nothing wrong with that and

1293
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,960
i hope that i've not intimated that

1294
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,720
there's nothing wrong all i've done is

1295
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,760
talk on

1296
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:51,760
what i know and i'm aware that like

1297
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,520
some of those modules

1298
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,920
are widely considered to be some of the

1299
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,599
greatest publishing in

1300
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,839
in the game and i'm jealous that i will

1301
00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:03,280
never get to i don't know why the [ __ ]

1302
00:42:59,839 --> 00:43:05,599
strad's such a big deal i get it

1303
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,960
but i don't always you know

1304
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:08,880
have the layer of knowledge and i think

1305
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,200
yeah absolutely you have to remember

1306
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,880
that i was building that campaign in the

1307
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,760
middle of lockdown and i didn't have a

1308
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,839
job

1309
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,920
so there's a lot of time to re-watch all

1310
00:43:15,839 --> 00:43:19,520
those old movies and weld [ __ ] together

1311
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,800
and say oh i'm gonna do that and i'm

1312
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,560
gonna steal that and i'm gonna have a

1313
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,760
bit of that and

1314
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,440
you know and i can talk to all my

1315
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,040
players individually and i can play as

1316
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,720
often as i want because guess what no

1317
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,760
one's [ __ ] doing anything else anyway

1318
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:31,359
so

1319
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,200
now you know come on you've been wait

1320
00:43:31,359 --> 00:43:36,240
you're way too modest both our homebrew

1321
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,839
campaigns are way better than curses

1322
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:40,839
no one's ever accused me of being too

1323
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:40,839
modest

1324
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,079
yeah i get it i do get why people play

1325
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,839
the games and it's not to say

1326
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:49,920
you know if i could talk on it i would

1327
00:43:47,839 --> 00:43:52,240
but i can't so i don't yeah yeah and

1328
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,720
don't take that for some sort of well i

1329
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:57,040
think you'll find in my campaigns

1330
00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:59,359
either it is or isn't yeah yeah you know

1331
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:01,040
i mean it's it's down to the players

1332
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:03,520
yeah yeah i think

1333
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,839
just because my campaign is xyz and

1334
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,599
focus on things i deem to be narratively

1335
00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:09,520
important

1336
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:11,760
does not take away from the narrative

1337
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,960
importance of go here and kill the

1338
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:17,040
vampire because it can be just as rich

1339
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,000
in some cases richer because it's

1340
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,599
simpler yes no one ever had to steal

1341
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,599
you know no one ever had to kidnap

1342
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:25,440
strad's accountant and steal his

1343
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:27,440
financial records to get another plot

1344
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,800
point which is something that happened

1345
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,400
in target once or twice

1346
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,920
oh i i had a question obviously we've

1347
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:38,400
talked a lot about how as gm's and uh

1348
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,560
people who who do more of the heavy

1349
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,839
lifting when it comes to planning and

1350
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:46,800
preparing and story management to again

1351
00:44:43,839 --> 00:44:49,119
use a politically benign term as a

1352
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,880
player how could you what are your

1353
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:52,720
thoughts on how can you help when you're

1354
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,079
limited in your power

1355
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:55,599
you know as a gm you're not limited in

1356
00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:57,359
power but when you are limited in what

1357
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:58,560
you can do at any given moment how can

1358
00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:00,240
you help

1359
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,839
tell a good story

1360
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:05,680
i think

1361
00:45:01,839 --> 00:45:07,200
have a backstory that is

1362
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,599
have a backstory of your character that

1363
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,520
informs your character's motivations but

1364
00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:13,760
has plenty of

1365
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,920
scope to fit into the world

1366
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,920
so go to your dm as i did for a

1367
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,800
character for a campaign for example who

1368
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:23,119
is doing a holy

1369
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,079
homebrew campaign

1370
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:28,640
and i said hey i'm thinking about this

1371
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:31,280
and to make that make sense i can kind

1372
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,880
of maybe he comes from feywild but how

1373
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,920
does that fit into your world man

1374
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,440
because there's nothing about that in

1375
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,119
the pdf that you've put out and i just

1376
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,480
don't want to just say i'm from the very

1377
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:39,680
world you know i have to do all this

1378
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,920
other [ __ ]

1379
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,920
and if he luckily

1380
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,839
the dm said i haven't thought but yeah

1381
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,359
it could definitely be part of the world

1382
00:45:45,839 --> 00:45:48,400
and it then came up later on in the

1383
00:45:47,359 --> 00:45:49,599
story

1384
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,880
but if he hadn't been from the fair

1385
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:51,760
world he could have been from somewhere

1386
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,079
else

1387
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,440
it was more that he was displaced son of

1388
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:57,200
royalty

1389
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,119
and that royalty happened to be the

1390
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,760
seaweed court it didn't matter that it

1391
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:03,520
wasn't whatever you know so go in and

1392
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,800
have those again

1393
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,720
i think

1394
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,400
the the rules of storytelling as we've

1395
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:10,480
sort of laid out are like

1396
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,720
have the broad strokes themes

1397
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,200
know those simple things

1398
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:18,400
and then when you go to your your dm you

1399
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:21,119
can say i want this character to be like

1400
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,400
this and here's why

1401
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:24,240
but what do you think and they'll say

1402
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,599
well maybe he was involved in this

1403
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:28,480
conflict or maybe she was a student at

1404
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:30,720
this

1405
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:33,200
university or maybe they were a part of

1406
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:34,640
this because this is [ __ ] that informs

1407
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,240
them going anyway

1408
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,680
and it's great if you're tied to it

1409
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,599
nothing's worse than if you come in and

1410
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,079
you've got six people who have

1411
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:43,599
backstories that are now not only need

1412
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:44,960
to be played out also need to be

1413
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:46,480
established because they haven't been

1414
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,720
hooked into the world

1415
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,640
yeah yeah and that's on you as a player

1416
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:52,160
you can't come in and go he will do this

1417
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,920
she will do that and they will do this

1418
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,040
together and i will have no movement

1419
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,680
upon this

1420
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,200
because your dm will see things

1421
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,720
that you don't because that's what

1422
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,079
second eyes are all about you will see

1423
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:03,839
things about the overall world that your

1424
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:06,000
dm doesn't because you're far too close

1425
00:47:03,839 --> 00:47:07,440
never bet on your own team right

1426
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,280
and they will say if they're good

1427
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,680
they'll say i was thinking about

1428
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:14,480
just watch out for this person have you

1429
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,240
got anyone in your past that could be

1430
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,680
that you could know

1431
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:19,359
would you like to would they inform me

1432
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,440
oh yeah go on what you got well there's

1433
00:47:19,359 --> 00:47:24,160
gonna be this song that pops up and i

1434
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,599
won't tell you what but does it does

1435
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,440
[ __ ] great that's why you have

1436
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:29,359
session zero yes

1437
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,960
you know so i think yeah you respond and

1438
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:33,599
you know day to day roll [ __ ]

1439
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,680
investigation checks roll inside checks

1440
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:37,599
because you know that if the scene isn't

1441
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,160
moving on there's something that you

1442
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:43,520
haven't seen so roll an inside check

1443
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,960
dump some stats into wisdom or whatever

1444
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,119
i think a good a good

1445
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,160
case in point of this is as i mentioned

1446
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:50,160
two of my players are running new

1447
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,200
characters yeah that's literally as we

1448
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,800
speak and both of them are first type

1449
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,000
were first timers when we started all

1450
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,880
those years ago

1451
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,400
and

1452
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:03,599
both of their first characters were

1453
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,680
very obviously first characters uh

1454
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:07,839
let me put it like that they were

1455
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,079
yeah one wasn't an amnesiac

1456
00:48:07,839 --> 00:48:11,760
and that was pretty much it so

1457
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:13,119
oh jason bourne that's not something you

1458
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,319
see ripped off a lot

1459
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:15,839
i don't mean that sarcastic though

1460
00:48:14,319 --> 00:48:17,680
that's actually like that struck me and

1461
00:48:15,839 --> 00:48:19,359
i went you were like well i think you're

1462
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,760
fine it's quite one dimension i was like

1463
00:48:19,359 --> 00:48:23,040
that's [ __ ] brilliant that's amazing

1464
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,800
i mean it was good to the dm because i

1465
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,400
was like ah here's a whole arc i can

1466
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,240
build and i don't really need any input

1467
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,440
from him because yeah he doesn't even

1468
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:30,960
know

1469
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,680
three months down the line he's like so

1470
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,680
i had 15 horses and six [ __ ] yeah yeah

1471
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,520
that's the one

1472
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,119
and then the other guy was

1473
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,040
not an amnesiac but didn't like to talk

1474
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:42,319
about his past so

1475
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,240
stifled

1476
00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:45,839
a few roleplay encounters with both the

1477
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,280
other players so there was there was

1478
00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:48,480
little like

1479
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,319
get up and go

1480
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:54,400
between the pair of them now both those

1481
00:48:50,319 --> 00:48:57,520
characters have died uh so oh well

1482
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:59,839
yeah however the new characters are like

1483
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,920
maybe we do this and maybe i know this

1484
00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:04,079
guy and maybe i traveled with him and

1485
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,440
maybe that's why i'm the way i am and

1486
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:07,680
this is all the other stuff and because

1487
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,440
i've said them like you're not making a

1488
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,200
character in isolation here's a

1489
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,440
five-page document of all the npcs

1490
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,359
you've met here's a four-page document

1491
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,440
that says like who the gods are in this

1492
00:49:15,359 --> 00:49:18,800
world and what that means if you were to

1493
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,400
support one of them

1494
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,079
hook off of any of that you know the

1495
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,160
places you've been to hook off any of

1496
00:49:22,079 --> 00:49:26,720
those here's a map of the world

1497
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,640
throw a [ __ ] dart and pick a place

1498
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:30,240
that's where you're from yeah

1499
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,000
but that's good though isn't it and i

1500
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:34,480
think that's

1501
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,240
i had to do that because i hadn't played

1502
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:39,040
at all until

1503
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:40,559
a year ago really not properly i'd dm

1504
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,319
for so long but it's totally different

1505
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:43,599
skill set and i did make a character

1506
00:49:42,319 --> 00:49:45,200
that was

1507
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:46,559
you know the adopted son of the sealy

1508
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,000
court and he was a little bit of a thor

1509
00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:49,359
rip off and he talked like this and he

1510
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,720
had a hammer

1511
00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:52,079
and it was great just a little bit of a

1512
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:55,760
thought

1513
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:55,760
yeah you get into it yeah [ __ ] you

1514
00:49:56,079 --> 00:50:00,960
no there's not um but then you get into

1515
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:04,240
the quest and then

1516
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:06,880
i kind of said to the dm look

1517
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:08,800
i kind of want to try something else

1518
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,079
my second thing out my mouth was is this

1519
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,359
going to [ __ ] anything up because that

1520
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:13,119
should always be your question because

1521
00:50:11,359 --> 00:50:15,200
you made the character it's as much on

1522
00:50:13,119 --> 00:50:17,119
you as it is on them

1523
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,480
and he said no not at all try what you

1524
00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:21,040
think and i said

1525
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,960
he's just a guy from a clan who lives in

1526
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,280
the forest and he looks at the stars and

1527
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,359
the stars aren't moving correctly and

1528
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,680
the rest of his family have left or died

1529
00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:31,520
because that's just what the clan does

1530
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,200
and um

1531
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,480
he's kind of just on his way to look at

1532
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,559
stuff

1533
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,559
and he went yeah let's do it and it was

1534
00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:41,760
it was my favorite his name was um

1535
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:43,520
cormoran vale and he was he was like yes

1536
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,440
this everyone calm down a little bit

1537
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,040
let's have a sit down and let's have a

1538
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,400
little sanity do you like food do you

1539
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,960
like bacon

1540
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,480
and he was that role-playing lube do you

1541
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,240
know what i mean i don't think i agree

1542
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,599
with that

1543
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,280
you know and he would occasionally come

1544
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:58,559
up but he had really [ __ ] high

1545
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,400
insight

1546
00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:02,319
so if we were ever in a situation where

1547
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,839
it's like okay as a dm i kind of know

1548
00:51:02,319 --> 00:51:05,520
there's something else probably going on

1549
00:51:03,839 --> 00:51:06,800
yeah yeah yeah i don't want to spoil the

1550
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,640
pie i don't have a guy well i think i

1551
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,000
know

1552
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,920
i just wrote an insight check and he had

1553
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,680
like a plus six on inside

1554
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,680
which is [ __ ] great because you're

1555
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,130
just like yes he doesn't tie his shoes

1556
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,400
left and right do you know what i mean

1557
00:51:17,130 --> 00:51:22,640
[Laughter]

1558
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,559
but thank you thank you for giving me uh

1559
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,800
for for cooperating my

1560
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:29,040
thing earlier on where i said that one

1561
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,520
good mark of a good player is is that

1562
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,680
appreciation of what the dm is going so

1563
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,200
as you said they're like i know what

1564
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,359
something's up here but i'm not gonna be

1565
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,960
like everyone stop the game clearly the

1566
00:51:37,359 --> 00:51:41,119
dm wants us to do this let's just go and

1567
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,800
do it because i personally no one likes

1568
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:44,000
that person yeah no one likes that

1569
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,680
person at the time you don't like him

1570
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:50,720
for dm you want that person to die slow

1571
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:53,119
but you also as a player you're like

1572
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:54,400
yeah okay yeah we all know but or some

1573
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:56,000
of us don't

1574
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,839
it doesn't matter it's the telling isn't

1575
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,040
it it's the trusted trust the tale not

1576
00:51:57,839 --> 00:52:01,520
the teller

1577
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,359
you know you've got to kind of

1578
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,800
get in there and

1579
00:52:03,359 --> 00:52:07,200
like we said at the beginning allow

1580
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,960
yourself to be willfully deceived yes

1581
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,319
and if someone goes well i can clearly

1582
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,319
see that he's got another dove that's

1583
00:52:10,319 --> 00:52:14,720
healthy under his sleeve no one cares

1584
00:52:12,319 --> 00:52:16,400
yeah do that better yeah no one wants to

1585
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:18,240
be that guy

1586
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,640
yeah no one wants to be that person i

1587
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:22,240
saw the wire in up his uh

1588
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,920
running around his neck yeah i saw the

1589
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:25,280
wire yeah right

1590
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,680
well done it's like the person that

1591
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,960
shouts out the punchline

1592
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:33,760
comedy gig it's like [ __ ] that person

1593
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,359
i'm not paid to see you friend

1594
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:38,079
yeah exactly yeah is your name on the

1595
00:52:35,359 --> 00:52:40,480
billboard no shut the [ __ ] up

1596
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:42,559
so i know one one last thing that i was

1597
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,920
thinking about and that we we've kind of

1598
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:46,800
skirted it a little bit you did mention

1599
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:49,680
it earlier on around railroading and how

1600
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,280
that is generally bad considered bad

1601
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,599
yeah it depends it depends again on your

1602
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,280
definition and the state and the context

1603
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:58,000
of obviously context is everything and

1604
00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:00,319
the state of the game and blah blah blah

1605
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:04,160
where do you fall on that spectrum then

1606
00:53:00,319 --> 00:53:06,160
of like when is it okay when when is it

1607
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,559
even not better than okay when is it

1608
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:11,520
even necessary you might say

1609
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:14,319
not to leave the witness i think

1610
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:17,280
i think railroading is

1611
00:53:14,319 --> 00:53:18,640
i think it's somewhat loaded term

1612
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,960
and i think people who are accused of

1613
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:23,200
the dms of it on the reg are expecting

1614
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:25,040
something than most of the dms can

1615
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:29,200
provide

1616
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,200
because a lot of dms aren't matt mercer

1617
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,960
right a lot of people that kick a

1618
00:53:32,319 --> 00:53:36,240
football about aren't sergio aguero

1619
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,680
or whatever do you know what i mean a

1620
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:40,079
lot of people that

1621
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,680
are in am dram aren't ian mckellen yeah

1622
00:53:40,079 --> 00:53:45,359
so if you're going and you're judging by

1623
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:47,680
that standard to a point

1624
00:53:45,359 --> 00:53:49,680
just to a point because i think there is

1625
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,359
there's another conversation about

1626
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,599
holding standards to yourself yeah

1627
00:53:51,359 --> 00:53:55,359
whatever i'm not getting into that

1628
00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:56,559
i think you're gonna be

1629
00:53:55,359 --> 00:53:58,240
sort of

1630
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:59,520
disappointed

1631
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:00,400
because you've set yourself up for a

1632
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:01,520
fall

1633
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,359
because

1634
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,520
you know i wish that i was as good as

1635
00:54:03,359 --> 00:54:06,319
doing voices and as good at doing voices

1636
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,079
as

1637
00:54:06,319 --> 00:54:10,160
other people but you're not yeah as a

1638
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:12,079
professional career voice actor yeah

1639
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,920
yeah exactly what yeah why is matt

1640
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:15,280
mercer so good because it's his [ __ ]

1641
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,359
job

1642
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,359
let's be honest he don't do it every

1643
00:54:17,359 --> 00:54:21,359
other sunday when everyone can sort of

1644
00:54:19,359 --> 00:54:23,200
park the kids and park their partners

1645
00:54:21,359 --> 00:54:25,680
and find four hours to sit in front of a

1646
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:28,240
computer around the table

1647
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,960
but i think railroading therefore is

1648
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:32,319
there is that little bit of

1649
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,839
oh i don't think you should do it but i

1650
00:54:32,319 --> 00:54:35,200
think if you have to lead a horse to

1651
00:54:33,839 --> 00:54:37,440
water

1652
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,839
there is still an element of onus on you

1653
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:42,160
to make the horse want to drink

1654
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:43,920
so i think it is good because you know

1655
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,760
what what is railroading you've just

1656
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,599
said you ended your three year campaign

1657
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,200
or at least that arc of it with a big

1658
00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:50,640
boss

1659
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,400
now they've turned up and they've not

1660
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,400
gone well you know what i already built

1661
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,240
an orphanage song going home of course

1662
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,480
they didn't you railroaded them into

1663
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:00,559
fighting that person all that thing in

1664
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,319
in certain yeah in certain respects if

1665
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:03,440
you really want to go down to it you

1666
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:05,200
know

1667
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,880
do i railroad people i was playing a

1668
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,920
one-on-one campaign testing out a new

1669
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:12,079
world with my my better half

1670
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,359
and i presented her a choice

1671
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:14,640
and i didn't have nothing if she didn't

1672
00:55:13,359 --> 00:55:15,839
pick the other word if she went you know

1673
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,760
i'm going to leave it

1674
00:55:15,839 --> 00:55:19,760
you got up you've got to railroad them a

1675
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,240
little bit it's not whether you do it or

1676
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,559
not it's how well you

1677
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:26,160
it's how well you do it

1678
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:28,319
it's how well you do it's how well you

1679
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,839
set up that big boss to go

1680
00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:31,359
we're going to kill him

1681
00:55:29,839 --> 00:55:32,720
because that's what the story requires

1682
00:55:31,359 --> 00:55:34,240
because if we leave him b he's going to

1683
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:36,559
eat the world because that's what we've

1684
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:38,559
set up yeah you know

1685
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:41,200
it's it's about how well you do it no

1686
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:42,480
one actually thinks that the magician

1687
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,000
kills the dove and brings it back to

1688
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,920
life right

1689
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,839
no one actually thinks that but you're

1690
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,520
led to believe it but if the magician

1691
00:55:47,839 --> 00:55:51,839
comes out and goes this is a real dove i

1692
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,040
[ __ ] promise real dove not rubber

1693
00:55:51,839 --> 00:55:54,400
because i've heard you can get them but

1694
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,040
this isn't one

1695
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,799
or railroading but if the magician comes

1696
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,000
out and says ah i am a master of life

1697
00:55:58,799 --> 00:56:02,079
and death and i can rearrange the

1698
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,920
molecules and i can just make this dove

1699
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:06,160
disappear and then i can rearrange the

1700
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,839
molecules and he's appeared again

1701
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:11,680
one of those is better so than the other

1702
00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:14,240
so do it [ __ ] do it just do it well

1703
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,079
in where appropriate yes to service your

1704
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:18,079
story which should be the caveat of

1705
00:56:16,079 --> 00:56:19,839
everything else yes oh absolutely yeah i

1706
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:21,200
love that when is basically made me

1707
00:56:19,839 --> 00:56:23,920
think of like when is railroading not

1708
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,880
railroading or it was it was

1709
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,559
i mean obviously all the published

1710
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,480
adventures have a set beginning middle

1711
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:30,480
and end i can't think of i can't think

1712
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,079
of a more ironic way of and you can't

1713
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,480
talk about you can't talk to me about

1714
00:56:32,079 --> 00:56:37,200
storytelling even in this sort of

1715
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,640
non-linear breadcrumbs without

1716
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,240
railroading you know

1717
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,440
and ultimately again at the beginning of

1718
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:43,920
the conversation we talked about the

1719
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,440
relationship between players and

1720
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,680
dms

1721
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,720
no one goes right so your dm leads you

1722
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,599
out into the jungle and says the

1723
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:52,720
mystical city is here you are here no

1724
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:54,880
one goes

1725
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:57,839
i'm gonna go [ __ ] east and i'm gonna

1726
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,760
walk and i'm just gonna walk yeah and

1727
00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:01,119
that's all i'm gonna do

1728
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,000
because you want to know what's in the

1729
00:57:01,119 --> 00:57:06,400
mystical city shut up

1730
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,760
of course you do of course you do

1731
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,839
but of course you of course you do if

1732
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,839
your dm's right so maybe maybe it's more

1733
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:12,400
of a

1734
00:57:10,839 --> 00:57:14,079
cyclical

1735
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,480
left hand right washes right hand

1736
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:17,680
relationship than i previously thought

1737
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,119
quite quite

1738
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,880
we've all we've all learned something

1739
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:23,200
haven't we done it we have but we have

1740
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,599
at the the i mean the value of this

1741
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,839
podcast continues to increase and i you

1742
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:29,680
know i wouldn't go that far

1743
00:57:27,839 --> 00:57:31,839
i mean it started pretty low mate so i

1744
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,440
mean it doesn't take much yeah

1745
00:57:31,839 --> 00:57:35,760
let me tell you how we agree on

1746
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,440
everything

1747
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,319
but i mean that's what i was thinking of

1748
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,400
like

1749
00:57:38,319 --> 00:57:42,000
obviously it's as you said it has a bad

1750
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,839
rap and it's very but it can be seen as

1751
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,319
very binary or uh

1752
00:57:43,839 --> 00:57:48,880
absolutionist like so does if you look

1753
00:57:46,319 --> 00:57:50,559
at films people say oh well the plot

1754
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,520
wasn't very good was it the plot was

1755
00:57:50,559 --> 00:57:54,240
just

1756
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:56,559
how many people about avatar the uh the

1757
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,839
james cameron movie yes said well i

1758
00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:58,880
think you'll find the plot isn't very

1759
00:57:57,839 --> 00:58:00,319
good no but you're not going for the

1760
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,480
[ __ ] plot you idiot you're going for

1761
00:58:00,319 --> 00:58:05,520
the virtual reality 4d

1762
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,520
whatever the [ __ ] it was yeah i mean

1763
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,839
and it has to take a back seat to make

1764
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,960
way for other stuff no one wants to

1765
00:58:09,839 --> 00:58:13,280
watch

1766
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:15,839
the godfather by way of avatar because

1767
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:18,160
there's too much going on

1768
00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:19,760
the plot is wonderful but then if you

1769
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,520
were to put the visual effects you just

1770
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,680
you just want to kill yourself

1771
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,680
see one has to make way for the other

1772
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,440
and that's why we have jokes like oh

1773
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:30,960
well this was a role play session yeah

1774
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:33,440
because that services when player x goes

1775
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:35,280
down in the next battle no one gives a

1776
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,880
[ __ ] if we don't have this

1777
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,559
role play episode

1778
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,720
you know and there's so many people get

1779
00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:41,839
up on the high halls about well i think

1780
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,680
um

1781
00:58:41,839 --> 00:58:44,640
you know the plot wasn't great but this

1782
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,720
is

1783
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:49,280
great or that wasn't great but that yeah

1784
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,720
sometimes that's a conscious choice

1785
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,319
because [ __ ] has to make way because

1786
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,640
you've got to be really good you've got

1787
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:57,440
to be like david simon levels of great

1788
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,640
writer yeah to make everything just work

1789
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,720
yes yes

1790
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,240
with no concessions or any you know

1791
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,079
anything like that yeah no concessions

1792
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,559
no joins no questions well why didn't

1793
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:08,319
mcnally do that if he knew that

1794
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:10,559
yeah come on

1795
00:59:08,319 --> 00:59:12,079
come on man it's just that sometimes

1796
00:59:10,559 --> 00:59:13,440
it's just that good but very rarely and

1797
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:16,400
don't hold yourself to that standard do

1798
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:19,200
the best closest thing you can do to it

1799
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,960
yeah i love how that you know there is

1800
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,720
this disdain for our wedding but then

1801
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:25,359
obviously nine campaigns out of ten

1802
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:27,839
maybe i'm being facetious but many many

1803
00:59:25,359 --> 00:59:30,319
campaigns will have a bit a big bad and

1804
00:59:27,839 --> 00:59:32,160
at what point is that that onus to go

1805
00:59:30,319 --> 00:59:34,079
and destroy the big bad it that in of

1806
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,520
itself is railroading which i kind of

1807
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:37,040
like the

1808
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:40,240
the perfect

1809
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:42,960
robber snaking its own tail guys

1810
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:44,640
no exactly you're so right dan i think

1811
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,480
it's it's defined railroading

1812
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,480
railroading to me because i think i know

1813
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,160
what people mean they say

1814
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,760
you go into a tavern there's three old

1815
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,359
women they don't really look good and

1816
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,640
then there's one man and he has a dog

1817
00:59:53,359 --> 00:59:56,880
and the dog looks at you and says

1818
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:59,440
everything is a lie

1819
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:02,480
that's railroading you know what happens

1820
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:04,799
if i go left dm nothing happens it's a

1821
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,319
it's a blank hallway that's railroading

1822
01:00:04,799 --> 01:00:08,880
but it's done poorly

1823
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:11,119
what happens if i go left dm

1824
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,319
it appears to be a uh appears to be a

1825
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:14,400
dead end well i'm gonna roll the

1826
01:00:12,319 --> 01:00:16,079
investigation check you do that

1827
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,440
i roll the 20.

1828
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:19,280
you see that there is nothing really

1829
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,599
wrong and the mildew is consistent with

1830
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:23,280
the season and it has grown

1831
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:25,440
oh okay that's my

1832
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,880
that's my curiosity stated i am gonna go

1833
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,160
left yeah

1834
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,799
you know i had it when i had it when i

1835
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,920
was doing a campaign with um

1836
01:00:30,799 --> 01:00:33,440
with ed

1837
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,720
doing a one-on-one campaign we went into

1838
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,200
a bar and there was an old woman that

1839
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,880
had lots of blink pets she had a blink

1840
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,839
parrot oh yeah and a blink dog that

1841
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,200
would chase the blink cat and they were

1842
01:00:40,839 --> 01:00:45,280
just chasing each other around and then

1843
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,880
there was an old guy with the paper and

1844
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,920
i went he knows me well enough that i

1845
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,000
know and he went straight over to that

1846
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,920
woman and she was like i'm going to

1847
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,280
shout it geez

1848
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,559
i'm going to back off now and i'm going

1849
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,680
to go and talk to the other guy and he

1850
01:00:54,559 --> 01:00:57,280
the other guy was the person he should

1851
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,200
have talked to

1852
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,359
that was railroading but i kind of had

1853
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,480
something in the bag for if he didn't

1854
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:04,400
so

1855
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,760
do it do it it's all storytelling is

1856
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,240
railroading they want you to turn the

1857
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:10,799
next page just [ __ ] do it well it is

1858
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,559
it is sorry dan you go now no no that is

1859
01:01:10,799 --> 01:01:15,200
it that that's what that's what i was

1860
01:01:12,559 --> 01:01:18,079
alluding to and you have

1861
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:21,599
hung that hat on that coat stand aptly

1862
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:21,599
uh so thank you very much um

1863
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,480
is there anything you want to talk about

1864
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,799
that we might have missed i get the

1865
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,319
impression almost definitely but

1866
01:01:26,799 --> 01:01:29,920
yeah i mean how long do you want to show

1867
01:01:28,319 --> 01:01:33,200
a bit i think

1868
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:35,040
secrets of storytelling show don't tell

1869
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,960
all storytelling is

1870
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:38,640
intent and

1871
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,720
obstruction

1872
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,880
that is what it is ultimately

1873
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,480
luke wants to know where he's from

1874
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,920
and the death star's in the way and he

1875
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,640
falls into being part of the rebellion

1876
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:50,640
watch that movie the rebellion is way

1877
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,160
more important than the force

1878
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,680
right

1879
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,920
a new hope being the movie anyway is

1880
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:58,160
there anything i want to add um

1881
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:01,440
if you've enjoyed my ramblings you can

1882
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:03,200
head over to start set show on twitter

1883
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,440
and check out the tales of tarthage

1884
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:08,400
podcast that's an audio play there are

1885
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:10,319
two seasons of 12 or 13 episodes

1886
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,920
if you liked line of duty or the wire or

1887
01:02:10,319 --> 01:02:14,079
lord of the rings i'd like to think

1888
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,520
you'd like that but who knows i do all

1889
01:02:14,079 --> 01:02:16,799
the voices

1890
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:19,200
give that a look

1891
01:02:16,799 --> 01:02:22,079
um what else

1892
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:24,480
as i've mentioned i think there will be

1893
01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:26,160
a brand new show from start set studios

1894
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,000
called let's get swarmer we'll be

1895
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:30,079
breaking down the brand new marvel

1896
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:32,160
multiverse role-playing game

1897
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:34,720
we will be doing a let's play if you go

1898
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:37,039
to let's get swarmer.com

1899
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,720
now you can learn more about that game

1900
01:02:37,039 --> 01:02:40,559
um because we have some new stories

1901
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,200
about what you want from it what we

1902
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:45,039
might see in it and that kind of thing

1903
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,039
and we'll also be populating an

1904
01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:49,039
instagram feed and doing a show when the

1905
01:02:47,039 --> 01:02:51,440
new rulebook comes out at the end of

1906
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:52,880
march all of starter sets podcasts are

1907
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,720
available

1908
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,079
on spotify just search starter set

1909
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,400
podcast

1910
01:02:56,079 --> 01:03:01,039
and it's a guide to everything from what

1911
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:02,480
race to pick to how to build the city

1912
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:04,160
it's everything you need to know we'd

1913
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,480
like to think about learning to play and

1914
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,839
then playing well the game of dungeons

1915
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,760
and dragons and as i've said there's

1916
01:03:07,839 --> 01:03:10,880
also the tales of tarthish podcast that

1917
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,280
runs

1918
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,280
sort of intermittently for two seasons

1919
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:17,119
and there will be more tales of tarthage

1920
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,440
depending on how well behaved my newborn

1921
01:03:17,119 --> 01:03:21,440
daughter is she hasn't arrived yet

1922
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,200
coming this winter

1923
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:25,119
don't try and find me on social media

1924
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:28,799
personally because i'm not there look at

1925
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:30,559
my work it's by far the more interesting

1926
01:03:28,799 --> 01:03:32,079
sam's a ghost uh

1927
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:34,480
and also yeah and also do you know what

1928
01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:37,119
shout out to my my hosting partner and

1929
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:38,640
everything good really towards with

1930
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:40,000
regards to dungeon dragons i do ed

1931
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,000
sylvester

1932
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:44,640
who also isn't on social media but is a

1933
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,079
big huge part of those shows and does

1934
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:48,160
way more research and understands the

1935
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:49,680
game way better than i do and is an

1936
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:51,039
infinite fountain of knowledge so do

1937
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,720
check out

1938
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:54,400
if you haven't enjoyed how i address the

1939
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,079
issue of dungeon dragons

1940
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,520
give starters a chance anyway because ed

1941
01:03:56,079 --> 01:03:59,280
might just be

1942
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,880
saving grace

1943
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,520
yeah definitely the amount of times i've

1944
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,200
been like what if he was like the bfg

1945
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,720
and he could you know with

1946
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,000
with all the children and they all fell

1947
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,680
asleep and he was like well what you're

1948
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,039
talking about there is a warlock and

1949
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,400
maybe he's a furball because he's a

1950
01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:14,480
giant that's exactly what i'm talking

1951
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,559
about

1952
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,160
thank you for you know interpreting that

1953
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:20,960
well thank you thank you sam for being

1954
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,850
the b team today uh when ed gets on them

1955
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,640
in the proper episode

1956
01:04:21,850 --> 01:04:26,640
[Laughter]

1957
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:29,039
you're so right

1958
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,720
um no thank you so much that uh to

1959
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:32,400
everyone at home obviously uh all the

1960
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,640
all the links all the pertinent links

1961
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:37,839
will be in the episode description as

1962
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:39,920
per usual so all that's left to say is

1963
01:04:37,839 --> 01:04:42,880
thank you ever so much sam for joining

1964
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:45,200
us today that was uh wow

1965
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:47,760
from from metaphors to

1966
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:50,160
damning indictments yes a lot yeah it's

1967
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:52,559
it's a whole a whole kettle of fish so

1968
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,319
thank you thank you ever so much uh sam

1969
01:04:52,559 --> 01:04:55,359
oh thank you for having me i and i mean

1970
01:04:54,319 --> 01:04:56,720
that from the bottom of my heart it's

1971
01:04:55,359 --> 01:04:58,160
just nice to

1972
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,280
talk about this stuff and not feel like

1973
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,319
you're getting on your soapbox and just

1974
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,920
have a opportunity to talk and um

1975
01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:06,160
if you are a content creator and you

1976
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:09,039
want to come on thinking critically

1977
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:11,760
danilo has the best most accommodating

1978
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:14,720
setup ah that you could ever wish to

1979
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:16,559
have and it's it's it's it makes star

1980
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,760
sets guest episodes look like an

1981
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:19,039
absolute

1982
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,799
joke um

1983
01:05:19,039 --> 01:05:22,480
no it's been really nice to have you man

1984
01:05:20,799 --> 01:05:24,000
and it's been nice to talk it's been

1985
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,760
great i've had a lot of fun and i

1986
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,799
happily come on again either as part of

1987
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:32,640
a couple or single and ready to mingle

1988
01:05:28,799 --> 01:05:32,640
amazing green wristband ready to go

1989
01:05:32,799 --> 01:05:37,200
my secret my success is

1990
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:39,119
for 90 of it having all the gear and no

1991
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:40,640
idea and then you're kind of forced to

1992
01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:42,000
at least have a modicum of an idea at

1993
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,880
some point which is where we find

1994
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:44,880
ourselves today so

1995
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:50,880
uh cool well as usual thank you everyone

1996
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:52,720
for listening at home please uh drop a

1997
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:55,520
like a review on spotify because the

1998
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:58,400
things you can do now uh so please do

1999
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,760
that uh and also the other usual avenues

2000
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,880
of showing your appreciation i would

2001
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,680
very much appreciate it and make my

2002
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:05,839
2022. so please go ahead and do that

2003
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:08,319
thank you everyone for listening and

2004
01:06:05,839 --> 01:06:10,799
good night one more thing oh if you're

2005
01:06:08,319 --> 01:06:13,119
creating npcs make five really good ones

2006
01:06:10,799 --> 01:06:15,599
not ten annoying ones

2007
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:16,960
five ones that have aims and intents and

2008
01:06:15,599 --> 01:06:19,039
i've actually took notes of this ames

2009
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,039
intentions drives and desires do five of

2010
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:22,559
those npcs and there's only so many

2011
01:06:21,039 --> 01:06:24,640
regional access you can do anyway so

2012
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:26,240
just give them each one i mean i like

2013
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,520
that i asked a bit is there anything

2014
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,680
we've missed that you want to talk about

2015
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,400
yeah and i don't know didn't pay for

2016
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,039
that

2017
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,160
page your notes notes major notes

2018
01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:36,880
have you got a shredder in that room

2019
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,880
you're in there

2020
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,160
pop them straight in there

2021
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,760
yeah

2022
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,720
and now it's time for the patreon shout

2023
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,920
outs

2024
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:48,799
thank you to robert hartley dm for viva

2025
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:50,880
la dirt league and writer on the dnd the

2026
01:06:48,799 --> 01:06:52,480
logic web series

2027
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:55,280
i would encourage everybody to check him

2028
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,240
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

2029
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,559
twitch

2030
01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:00,960
thank you to optional rule a two-time

2031
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:03,760
guest of the show and a very insightful

2032
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:05,039
and knowledgeable source of information

2033
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:08,039
please check them out at

2034
01:07:05,039 --> 01:07:08,039
www.optionalrule.com

2035
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:13,760
huge huge huge thank you to a great

2036
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:16,240
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

2037
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:18,559
out there making hilarious and

2038
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:20,319
educational dungeons and dragons content

2039
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:22,079
please go and check out his stuff at

2040
01:07:20,319 --> 01:07:24,480
matthewperkins.net where you can find

2041
01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:26,079
links to all of his socials and all of

2042
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,760
his content including his own patreon

2043
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:29,520
which i would very much encourage you to

2044
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:32,400
check out

2045
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:34,480
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

2046
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,000
on twitter for supporting the show if

2047
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:38,599
you need support running your personal

2048
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,799
or business schedule head to

2049
01:07:38,599 --> 01:07:42,559
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

2050
01:07:40,799 --> 01:07:44,640
make that difference between should do

2051
01:07:42,559 --> 01:07:46,400
and done boss it better with support

2052
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:48,720
from cat who will help you get back that

2053
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:50,160
essential time you've been searching for

2054
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,079
if you would like to support what we do

2055
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,799
and get four shout outs a month head

2056
01:07:52,079 --> 01:07:56,319
over to patreon.com thinking critically

2057
01:07:54,799 --> 01:08:00,280
or you can just buy me a coffee at

2058
01:07:56,319 --> 01:08:07,300
kofi.com thinking critically

2059
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:27,520
[Music]