Jan. 15, 2021

Podcasts


In this meta-episode we find ourselves discussing "Podcasts". I'm joined by Mike Hibbert (@MikeHDnD), who has been in the TTRPG and board game space for 40 years, and had 1000 listeners on his first podcast 15 years ago. We approach the topic from both general and D&D perspectives, discussing them as a creative medium alongside the gotchas of producing actual-plays and the responsibility of celebrity status it might bring. If you've thought about DMing or podcasting before, listen to the irony of us "umm"ing and "errrr"ing through a discussion on filler words and feel much better about yourself!

  • 03:02 - The value of podcasts
  • 06:33 - How podcasting has(n't) changed
  • 11:09 - The "joys" of editing
  • 19:11 - Concessions of actual-play podcasts
  • 27:26 - What defines the quality of actual-plays and how they differ from private games
  • 46:55 - Improvised versus scripted
  • 54:49 - Alternative shows

Find Mike (@MikeHDnD) on:

Find me on:

Referenced Podcasts:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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hello and welcome to thinking critically

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a d and d discussion a podcast where we

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deep dive single word concepts or ideas

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within the dungeons and dragons 5e

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framework

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my name is danilo and i like all kinds

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of games and the crunchy mechanics that

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make him tick you can find me on twitter

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facebook and instagram and i'd really

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appreciate a like or a follow

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today i'm joined by mike hibbert thank

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you ever so much for joining us can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself

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sure hi and thank you for having me on

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the show it's uh it's an honor you're in

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fact my first ever guest podcast role so

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i'm quite excited um well a little bit

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about me i'm

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oh crikey 51 years old i know you know

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i've definitely got a face for radio

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these days um

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i've been in and around the

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d and d

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um role-playing scene for many many

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years first started when i was a

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well a teenager well probably

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pre-teenager i think i was 12. uh back

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with the d d box set the red box set i

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don't know if you remember that um

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a little bit before my time

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yes

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i suspect that's a lot before quite a

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few people's time so i've played every

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edition of dnd i've been around a lot

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played lots of other role playing games

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moved over heavily into board gaming a

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few years ago after a failed dungeons

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and dragons evening we decided to play a

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board game instead and didn't look back

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for quite a few years and then i've got

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back into into role playing quite

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recently

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in the last

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year like a lot of people locked down

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inspired really hmm yeah i think it's

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probably a similar

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for yeah a number of people then i don't

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know what has made me think of it but a

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friend sent me a news article yesterday

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saying a lot of people are into fishing

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as well 100 000 more people in the uk

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are into fishing because they're locked

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down so i wonder what other weird and

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wonderful things people are

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refining

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that's really interesting actually and i

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did warn you prior to uh starting i did

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say that i do tend to go off attention

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um one of our favorite programs at the

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moment is the um bob mortar and paul

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whitehouse with their gone fishing have

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you have you watched that at all do you

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know what it's an absolute delight it's

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two old funny guys who've both been told

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that they need to slow their lives down

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for heart related problems just go

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fishing together and talk rubbish for

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half an hour it's fabulous

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oh yeah that sounds great

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it is it truly is it truly is it's on

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the uh on the iplayer go go and watch

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some oh yeah mrs and i run out of things

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to watch so yeah that's it good good

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timing

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so

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maybe surprisingly as i said the topic

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today isn't fishing or tv it's actually

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uh

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it's actually podcasts

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uh so

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what does what does what are podcasts uh

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mean to you mike so i've been i've been

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a consumer i've been a creator and a

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consumer of podcasts for

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quite a few years now and i

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i love what they can bring to you i love

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the fact that you can

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um you know there's there's just tons of

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them out there isn't there there's you

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know you you can find uh find a subject

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that uh that you're passionate about or

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that you're interested in or that you

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just have

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a desire to understand a little bit more

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about and you can bet your bottom dollar

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that somebody somewhere has created a

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podcast

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detailing it all for you so you know i

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was just writing down

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a few podcasts i'd enjoyed um yeah i'm

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sure we'll talk about those later but in

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terms of

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uh in terms of what they mean they're

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just

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a brilliant way for people so

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creators to reach

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their audience and talk about stuff and

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in as niche manner as they want to so

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you know you don't have to worry about

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being a bit too nerdy or a bit not nerdy

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enough or or whatever your your niche is

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you can just

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you can go and you can be you and people

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either like you or they don't like you

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um and you'll never really know um so i

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love them for that but also i love them

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for

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that ability as a as a consumer to say

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you know i fancy

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listening to oh i don't know just

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picking something at random i fancy

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getting into pokemon go let's listen to

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a few podcasts to really understand how

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it's done and you know what what it's

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all about and then you can decide

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that sounds cool that doesn't sound cool

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you know without all the investment and

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the time and things like that you're

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just

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you're it's

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you you're you're learning in a shared

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community and i love that that's yeah

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that's a really nice way to put it and i

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think

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i um follow a couple of podcasting

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subreddits and talking about niches i've

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seen a lot of questions of people have

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put on there of here's my podcast that's

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about 17th century

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coins or something that is super niche

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to me but exactly like you said i'm sure

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there's a huge audience out there for

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that really

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specific topic

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and

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it's you know benefit of today's

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technology that

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people who are interested in 17th

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century coins can

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just google it and they'll be as you

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said there's guaranteed to be a podcast

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about it yeah absolutely i i don't know

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i don't know if you watched uh wayne's

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world back in the day um you know huge

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fan uh but i loved that idea of public

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access tv so

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me as a creator could sit there and

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talk for 10 minutes 20 minutes whatever

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about buzz cut hair

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cusses and things like that and people

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will either listen or they won't listen

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now that that technology

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was never available to us

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uk side and i don't really know how

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accessible it was stateside but podcasts

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i can do that

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if i want my own radio show of music

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that i've created whilst i talk about

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13th century um ramekins um then

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plucking things at random then then i

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can do that and people can either listen

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or they don't listen you know and i just

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i can just put it out there

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yeah it's quite sweet it's quite nice

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yep so

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how do you think

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the

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nature of podcasts has changed over the

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years and let's just keep it broad you

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know that's not let's not keep it

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specific to dnd just yet we'll dive into

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the details later on but um

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hands up my experience is quite limited

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at the moment uh which might be

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surprising considering i'm recording one

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as we speak uh but

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but in terms of listening i i don't have

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a huge library of things i follow uh

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unlike my girlfriend who has many and

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what i do follow is very modern and very

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recent so i wasn't there when they first

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came out i probably didn't have a phone

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that could support them when they first

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came out

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i was rocking a retro phone for way

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longer than i probably should have done

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but um yeah so how do you think they've

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changed or has it always been the

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similar kind of theme and

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that kind of public access ethos has

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stayed the same throughout what are your

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thoughts

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um that's it that's a great question i i

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think

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so as i mentioned at the start i

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i have been

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a creator in the past so probably and i

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was trying to remember the timeline just

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before we started probably as early as

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2006 2007

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maybe maybe a little bit later i can't

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quite remember

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i was a co-host of a board games podcast

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called into the gamescape

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i can promote them because you can't get

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hold of me you can't get hold of the

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audio anymore so

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so there's no danger of you going back

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and listening um it's just how

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truly terrible we were

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so we did probably

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70 or 80 shows um and we had

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i don't know i think at our our peak we

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probably had about a thousand listeners

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worldwide well and that's part of it i

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think back then there was a lot fewer

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people doing it so

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we were heavily into board gaming at the

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time so lots and lots of uh

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fairly heavy duty board games war games

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um warhammer

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some of the real um the real sort of uh

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in-depth geeky hex and um

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little chip kind of war games that kind

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of stuff

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so we did quite a lot there was three of

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us um and i think that again was an

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interesting and interesting dynamic

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people hadn't

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hadn't really heard that before um it

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was generally it was just it was one guy

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or maybe a couple of guys and i think

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back then there was there was less

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options so you had maybe

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a dozen different podcasts to choose

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from

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we were always a little bit niche

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because we were english and lots of

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people hadn't really heard you know

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board gaming then was was either a very

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european german-based hobby or american

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so the fact that there was you know

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three guys from blighty

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um waffling on about board games um i

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think picked us up quite a few listeners

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but the really interesting thing is that

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i don't think a lot has changed since

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then other than there are obviously more

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podcasts available so i think you know

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the the the pie has got bigger um but

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there's a lot more people taking slices

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out of it

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but but for example when you said to me

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download audacity to do the recording um

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that was what we used

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14 13 years ago

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so in terms of technology not a lot has

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changed we recorded on

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audacity and did all our editing and

270
00:10:09,839 --> 00:10:14,320
chopping out the the rambling

271
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,000
of which there was plenty and then we

272
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,279
put it up through

273
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,399
libsyn i don't know whether they're

274
00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:19,760
still going

275
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,160
and they just had a little web page and

276
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,160
people downloaded it through itunes

277
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,480
but other than that i don't think a lot

278
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,480
a lot's really changed hmm yeah some

279
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,560
things never never change maybe uh maybe

280
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,040
audacity has a dark theme now maybe

281
00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:34,560
that's the

282
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,320
biggest change

283
00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:39,040
well to be honest

284
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,839
looking at it it looks exactly the same

285
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,600
um

286
00:10:39,839 --> 00:10:43,040
you know i'm sure that i'm sure they've

287
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,079
done lots of work on it i'm sure it does

288
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,480
lots of

289
00:10:44,079 --> 00:10:50,240
lots of far more cleverer things than

290
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:51,279
than ever it did um but yeah for a while

291
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,279
i got

292
00:10:51,279 --> 00:10:56,160
relatively good at you know chopping

293
00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:58,320
bits out making it all sound seamless

294
00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:01,200
dropping in interstitials and goodness

295
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,440
as well explosives which is more terms

296
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,560
that i'm learning as i yes

297
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,720
yes

298
00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:08,800
i have noticed a couple of mine as we as

299
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,399
we were recording

300
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,360
yeah that's a good segue actually

301
00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:15,760
because the next point i had on my notes

302
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,560
was editing funnily enough and i know

303
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,240
we're

304
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,360
not keeping it tabletopy for the time

305
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,760
being but i think when you're when

306
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,360
you're discussing a meta topic like this

307
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,440
you're going to have to indulge

308
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,040
the hosts a little bit and i don't think

309
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,680
i could have picked a better guest for

310
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,600
this particular topic so uh

311
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,760
so talking of editing i think you said

312
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,720
you mentioned you did a bit back in the

313
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,959
day

314
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,120
you know you still hone those skills at

315
00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:41,120
all or have you you know is it like

316
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,480
riding a bicycle or how did you find it

317
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,200
when you when you were doing it back

318
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,160
then

319
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:49,040
so i i'm not sure i haven't done any for

320
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,720
a long time so i've fallen off my bike

321
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,839
haven't quite tried getting back on it

322
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,920
yet uh but you know look at looking at

323
00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:58,399
the voice profile that

324
00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:01,440
that audacity is doing i suspect it's

325
00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:03,200
pretty similar um so we did two passes

326
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,600
of the edit so there was three of us

327
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,560
that did the podcast and we all had

328
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,000
different

329
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,519
skills so

330
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,560
um paul

331
00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:14,720
one of the the co-hosts um his skill was

332
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,600
that he just didn't give a damn

333
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,519
so

334
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,920
so he was like yeah you guys just do

335
00:12:17,519 --> 00:12:20,800
whatever i'm once i finish talking i'm

336
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,279
done

337
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:26,320
yeah um i was very

338
00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:28,160
aware of pops and crackles and

339
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,760
background noises and making sure the

340
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,680
levels were right and all that kind of

341
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,760
stuff that really i'm a bit of a

342
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:35,920
perfectionist with stuff yeah so i

343
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,959
really wanted that to be right and the

344
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,920
other guy sai was much more aware of the

345
00:12:38,959 --> 00:12:43,680
content and what we were saying and um

346
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,320
you know he was he was i suppose our

347
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:49,040
brand guy yeah so we would go through i

348
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,079
would well we would we would either do

349
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:54,880
it together where we'd sit down um i'd

350
00:12:52,079 --> 00:12:56,079
do a very quick pass of the sand and say

351
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,519
well i want to take that out i want to

352
00:12:56,079 --> 00:12:59,279
take that out i want to take that out

353
00:12:57,519 --> 00:13:00,880
and then he'd say

354
00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:02,320
i think we need to

355
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,839
that little bit there i think we

356
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,560
probably want to take that bit out

357
00:13:03,839 --> 00:13:08,800
because we were we were very heavily

358
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:11,680
family friendly so

359
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,760
um any any swears or that kind of stuff

360
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:16,480
we we whipped out

361
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:18,880
but yeah other than that i think the the

362
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,399
editing process is probably very similar

363
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,320
these days

364
00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:24,399
yeah well uh that sounds like you had a

365
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,320
really good mix there of

366
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:29,120
people that can kind of plug the gaps

367
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,480
and i found that it takes me

368
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,680
uh

369
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,279
well actually i'm bringing that time

370
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:35,279
down but it used to take me three times

371
00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:37,920
the length of the episode to edit an

372
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:39,600
episode so it's about three hours for

373
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,240
every one hour episode give or take

374
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:45,519
which i've now gotten down to maybe two

375
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,360
and a half just from moving across the

376
00:13:45,519 --> 00:13:48,880
knowing audacity a little bit better and

377
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,360
moving across and a couple of shortcuts

378
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,880
and whatnot but um i must admit that was

379
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,160
that's that's the classic well they

380
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,680
don't tell you about that before they

381
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,639
start

382
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,240
the thing that you know hey you're

383
00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:00,320
starting a podcast but you're gonna have

384
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,120
to edit it and

385
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:06,000
that takes time and i am also

386
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:08,720
a perfectionist and half that editing

387
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:11,120
time is me debating whether i should cut

388
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,320
out a certain thing or is that s just a

389
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,320
little bit too essy

390
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,480
okay sonic go back five minutes and

391
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,240
start to

392
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,920
have to go back because it's just

393
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,240
it's just festering there in the back of

394
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,160
my mind that one little thing that it's

395
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,839
bugging me and i have to go back and fix

396
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,279
it so it's the little bit slighter so

397
00:14:27,839 --> 00:14:32,160
i've just noticed you know when you said

398
00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:34,560
that i i chuckled um so there's a little

399
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,399
blip on my line that says you know mike

400
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,480
chuckled and

401
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:40,079
if if it's my podcast i'd be thinking

402
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,160
right i'm just going to flatten that i'm

403
00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:44,399
going to take those chuckles out and

404
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,600
no but then potentially do you do you

405
00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:48,000
lose a

406
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,160
natural conversational style i mean why

407
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,600
why do people listen to podcasts

408
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,880
um is it just for information i mean i'm

409
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,199
i'm not sure

410
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,880
particularly with a with a theme and

411
00:14:57,199 --> 00:15:00,000
something like this so

412
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,399
um

413
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,079
what are your listeners are they podcast

414
00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:06,320
fanatics or are they

415
00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:07,519
role-playing fanatics that want to you

416
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,440
know so

417
00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:12,560
so yeah it's a really interesting one

418
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,399
isn't it yeah i think it's what's what's

419
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,079
really nice from a human being

420
00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:17,600
perspective is i've

421
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:20,160
noticeably got

422
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,560
better i'm not good but i'm better than

423
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:26,079
having never done it before and i think

424
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:28,639
a lot of the expertise comes from and in

425
00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:31,040
my crowbar way of bringing us back into

426
00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:35,120
d d is very similar to

427
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:36,880
a dungeon master experience of knowing

428
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,880
just having this kind of innate

429
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,360
understanding of when is a good time to

430
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,959
cut something out or leave and um in

431
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,279
because it actually adds

432
00:15:42,959 --> 00:15:47,519
to the conversation in the same way that

433
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:49,839
a dungeon master might know when to

434
00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:50,880
allow something and let something slide

435
00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:52,959
because it adds something to the

436
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,800
gameplay versus being like no let's just

437
00:15:52,959 --> 00:15:57,600
move on because you know i'm just going

438
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,959
to say no in this instance and that's

439
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,440
something that

440
00:15:58,959 --> 00:16:02,959
my first episode that i edited at this

441
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,199
podcast was

442
00:16:02,959 --> 00:16:06,959
it took me forever and i was probably

443
00:16:05,199 --> 00:16:09,839
way too strict on getting rid of all the

444
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:11,519
filter words just because in my head at

445
00:16:09,839 --> 00:16:12,959
that time it was

446
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:16,240
they weren't content they were just

447
00:16:12,959 --> 00:16:18,000
garbage whereas now i'm like actually no

448
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,440
that if i leave that

449
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,440
you know in

450
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,079
it actually helps the conversation flow

451
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,680
a little bit better and i'm i'm like to

452
00:16:24,079 --> 00:16:27,199
think that i'm slowly moving towards

453
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,759
that middle ground of

454
00:16:27,199 --> 00:16:31,440
let me cut out the real waste of time

455
00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:32,320
but leave in here and there just a

456
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,079
little

457
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,360
drop of humanity

458
00:16:34,079 --> 00:16:39,600
just so it still sounds natural

459
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,759
yes i think you're right we're not um i

460
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,240
mean i certainly have never been to

461
00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:47,360
finishing school um and i didn't go to

462
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,639
the um you know i don't work for the bbc

463
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,839
so

464
00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:53,360
you've got lots of you knows arms ours

465
00:16:51,839 --> 00:16:54,639
uh yeah

466
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,639
it is really interesting actually

467
00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:59,680
because we have obviously we're all

468
00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:01,600
doing a lot more of these uh calls

469
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,199
both for this kind of thing but also

470
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,640
professionally you know i spend most of

471
00:17:03,199 --> 00:17:08,400
my day now on calls yeah you know and

472
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,199
you do end up

473
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:14,720
counting things like arms and arms and

474
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:16,160
your nose and stuff uh you know you're

475
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,600
in fact i'm really aware that i've said

476
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,039
you know four times yep in this entire

477
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,839
it's like that thing where people say

478
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:23,280
like

479
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:25,679
you're breathing right now and then

480
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,960
suddenly you can't not think about

481
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:32,559
breathing here absolutely absolutely so

482
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,000
i'm i'm very aware of people's your nose

483
00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:35,520
and um

484
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,240
arms and arms and things like that

485
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,240
because you you hear it so much more i

486
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,360
think if you're in a in a meeting with

487
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,919
somebody face to face uh at work

488
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:48,799
you don't fill in space in the same way

489
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:50,080
that you do on a podcast or actually you

490
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:51,919
know on a

491
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,320
zoom call or something

492
00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:56,080
yeah it's a curse of editing i suppose

493
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,080
is that you you have to train yourself

494
00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,559
to pick up those things and then when

495
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,240
you stop editing you've still got that

496
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:03,840
talent just knocking around so when

497
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,120
you're talking to people or listening to

498
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,520
calls and

499
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:09,520
a colleague of mine just on friday

500
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,960
she was delivering some some training

501
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,480
and we worked quite closely together and

502
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,000
she was a bit nervous because i hate the

503
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,480
sound of my own voice and i'm always

504
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,559
saying um and ars and i was like yeah i

505
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,400
know i tell well

506
00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:21,440
tell me about it and then i gave her the

507
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,840
example of

508
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,520
how if i recorded an episode of this

509
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,919
thinking critically podcast that might

510
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,520
be recorded to one minute 15 after i

511
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:30,880
edit it down it's usually about one

512
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,480
minute five

513
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,280
so between

514
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:38,000
the filter words and

515
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,039
just gaps of silence i can usually get

516
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,320
rid of about

517
00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:43,200
10 minutes

518
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,559
worth of essentially dead air

519
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,200
let me put that into perspective for you

520
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:48,160
of how much people um are so don't worry

521
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,679
about it

522
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,600
because it's it's it's everywhere and

523
00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:53,679
everybody does it all that and i think

524
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,320
it makes it makes it conversationally

525
00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:58,559
fair i think people listen to stuff and

526
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,160
if it's too polished it it just doesn't

527
00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:00,960
sound natural

528
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,000
yeah

529
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,880
yeah for sure it sounds like you're

530
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,200
reading from a script yeah yeah

531
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,480
okay let's move on to

532
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,720
let's try and talk about some tabletop

533
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,400
role-playing games for a change uh

534
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,840
today

535
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,000
okay so

536
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,200
one of the reasons i personally

537
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,559
started this

538
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,600
was

539
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:25,440
yes i think that i'm a

540
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:28,799
moderately okay dm and that would other

541
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,320
people like to hear me play in a game

542
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:31,679
yes maybe

543
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,600
however

544
00:19:31,679 --> 00:19:35,520
from what i gather there are an awful

545
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,799
lot of

546
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,080
actual plays

547
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:42,480
which are d d or other tabletop rpgs

548
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,799
that are either streamed or recorded and

549
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,280
then put as youtubes and podcasts where

550
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,880
they're actually playing the game

551
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,880
in quotes and i

552
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,600
use quotes because depending on the

553
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,200
production values they're not always

554
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,000
playing the

555
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,240
raw version of the game shall we say or

556
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,919
or a public version of the game for lack

557
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,760
of a better term so

558
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:04,640
i don't know do you listen to any actual

559
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,320
plays

560
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,760
are you familiar with any have you been

561
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,520
in any

562
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,679
i listen to

563
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,559
three or four and so i regularly listen

564
00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:17,039
to three or four um different podcasts

565
00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:20,240
and gem really what i do

566
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:21,760
is i'm a bit of a completer on a

567
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,200
myers-briggs terminal i would be a

568
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:27,600
completer finisher so i tend to binge on

569
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:30,320
a on a podcast so i listen to everything

570
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:33,679
and then i try and stay fairly current

571
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,200
so um i don't i don't tend to have lots

572
00:20:33,679 --> 00:20:37,600
and lots and lots on the go at the same

573
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,480
time yeah i just yeah all the stories

574
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,760
get confused and and blurred but but

575
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,799
you're absolutely right i think there

576
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,960
are there are dozens and dozens of um

577
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:49,919
real play podcasts out there

578
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:52,799
the ones i tend to listen to is dice and

579
00:20:49,919 --> 00:20:55,280
desire those guys are very funny

580
00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:56,320
so i'm i'm currently working my way back

581
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,679
through

582
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,120
that at the moment um roll the damn dice

583
00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:02,880
i listen to

584
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:04,960
and again i'm sort of trying to catch

585
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,720
i'm sort of i listened to the current

586
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,520
ones and now i'm sort of catching back

587
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,960
up

588
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:13,360
um the dice and die podcast

589
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,039
now i have actually caught myself up on

590
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:17,280
those as the um

591
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:19,039
the main ones that i listened to when i

592
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,559
first started listening and i'll be

593
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:22,000
honest the reason i started listening to

594
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:25,760
them was that they were running through

595
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,480
the lost minds of fandoline fendovlar

596
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,280
and

597
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,600
something like that yeah yeah and i was

598
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:34,240
going to be running that for my son and

599
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,960
some of his friends so i thought i'll uh

600
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:40,000
i'll listen to that and do you know what

601
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:43,200
they've done a really good job of taking

602
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,200
a level one to five adventure and

603
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,240
turning it into an entire sort of

604
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,919
campaign world and you know they they're

605
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,679
they're great i really like those guys

606
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:53,120
yeah so in terms of the those are the

607
00:21:51,679 --> 00:21:57,679
three main

608
00:21:53,120 --> 00:22:00,159
real play podcasts that i listen to um

609
00:21:57,679 --> 00:22:02,320
but but you're right there's i i think

610
00:22:00,159 --> 00:22:05,120
one of the issues that i've always had

611
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:08,559
is is it's almost uh you know i'd like

612
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:12,720
to do a real play podcast but i think my

613
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:14,000
um my play style is probably not

614
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,840
something that other people would

615
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,120
necessarily want to listen to

616
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,280
you know i tend to

617
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:21,919
we muck around we have fun

618
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:24,960
we tell in jokes yeah we're still doing

619
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:28,320
jokes from 20 years ago kind of thing

620
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,640
um you know you rock has always become

621
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,559
you rick to us because of a typing

622
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,200
mistake that someone made in uh world of

623
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:36,480
warcraft 15 years ago you know it's

624
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,799
little daft things like that that

625
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:42,080
perhaps wouldn't translate to that well

626
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:44,320
yeah but also you know we do we do stop

627
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,960
and delve into the rules and we do go oh

628
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,320
hang on a sec i can't quite do that um

629
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,600
and i think

630
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,240
you know you're either a a rules-y kind

631
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,200
of

632
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,200
thing or you're a hand wave the rules

633
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,280
kind of thing and i think

634
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,720
i think if you you know if you want to

635
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,280
stop and check rules and things like

636
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:06,159
that it kind of if you're live streaming

637
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,320
on twitch and stuff or whatever yeah

638
00:23:06,159 --> 00:23:09,760
then you know it doesn't necessarily

639
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,120
work if you say well hang on a second

640
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:15,280
let me just check the rules um and also

641
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:18,480
you know i'm sure i'm sure there's lots

642
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,320
of things i do completely wrong um and

643
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,080
i'm as i think i said earlier i'm a bit

644
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,440
of a perfectionist and i'd be really

645
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,320
frustrated

646
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,120
being

647
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,200
playing something and um you know people

648
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:31,679
then saying you're doing that wrong it's

649
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,720
like oh really

650
00:23:31,679 --> 00:23:35,600
brilliant

651
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,159
so yeah for many reasons i think maybe

652
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,919
doing a i'd you know if somebody said do

653
00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:42,559
you want to come along and do a real

654
00:23:39,919 --> 00:23:44,000
play and just jump on the the show and

655
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:48,240
do a one-off or something like that i'd

656
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:51,760
be great but maybe doing my own um

657
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:54,400
yeah i think my my fragile emotional ego

658
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,400
couldn't take that

659
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,720
i mean the fact that you can

660
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,679
you you're self-aware enough to say that

661
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,520
is

662
00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:02,480
really good to start with because i

663
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,960
imagine there's a lot of people that

664
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,480
don't even have that thought process

665
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,400
yeah i touched on a really good point

666
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,480
there of almost

667
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,240
you have to change the game a little bit

668
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,159
because you're catering for a different

669
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,320
audience and a different

670
00:24:14,159 --> 00:24:17,840
production values and different platform

671
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,200
which sounds obvious when i say it i

672
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,159
mean i've lost track of the amount of

673
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,080
times i've said something on this

674
00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:23,919
podcast and then said to myself well

675
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,320
that sounds obvious down there well done

676
00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:27,679
you've provided zero value whatsoever

677
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,960
but uh

678
00:24:27,679 --> 00:24:31,200
but if it's not obvious to you

679
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,440
immediately i'm sure there's lots of you

680
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,400
know you end up saying things that are

681
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,080
obvious

682
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,000
um and other people are going the same

683
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,840
oh yeah i never thought about that um

684
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,799
yeah thank you for reassuring me there

685
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,600
huh

686
00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:45,200
you're very welcome yeah so that like

687
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,640
it makes sense when you say out loud but

688
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,840
i think it's a lot of things that maybe

689
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,080
people don't think of in the same way

690
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,520
that i didn't necessarily think download

691
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,279
you've got to do three hours of editing

692
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,200
for every episode you do

693
00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:56,880
maybe people don't think hey i'm gonna

694
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,880
have to consider

695
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,520
how we play quite heavily before we

696
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,159
start recording otherwise you're right

697
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,240
you can maybe fall in to that trap is

698
00:25:04,159 --> 00:25:09,360
maybe too strong of a word but that

699
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,279
niche to use a softer term of

700
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,720
here's just me and my friends playing

701
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:14,150
and

702
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,440
who wants to listen

703
00:25:14,150 --> 00:25:17,600
[Laughter]

704
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,320
yeah i mean don't don't don't get me

705
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,960
wrong i really do the real play podcast

706
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,960
i listen to i really enjoy yeah um you

707
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,600
know there's a few others um that are on

708
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,279
my list that i want to get on to uh what

709
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,440
i tend to do is i'll dip in and have a

710
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:33,360
listen so yeah roll virginia and

711
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,440
intelligent check i've listened to a

712
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:37,360
couple of episodes both of those and i

713
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,200
like the style so they're in my you know

714
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,360
i need to go back and start at the

715
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,760
beginning or at some point find a good

716
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:45,840
jumping in point now that would that

717
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:49,200
would maybe so if you're if you're a

718
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:51,039
creator out there with a podcast

719
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,320
that would be a really good feature to

720
00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:56,480
have is a where to start thing so maybe

721
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,080
say to new listeners right go and listen

722
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,159
to episode one because that's where we

723
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,840
introduce our characters but then

724
00:26:00,159 --> 00:26:06,080
episodes one to 50 are

725
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,919
this part of the adventure and then we

726
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,640
go on to this and then we go on to this

727
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:11,840
so start here that kind of stuff

728
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,360
yeah that's a good idea because there's

729
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,120
always going to be a few warm-up

730
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:16,960
episodes where you're still kind of

731
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:19,520
betting in the technical issues and

732
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,799
making sure everyone's comfy and so on

733
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,320
and so on so yeah if you condense all

734
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:24,159
that down it's like the first arc or the

735
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,120
first chapter then you can say new

736
00:26:24,159 --> 00:26:26,400
players

737
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,559
basically you can probably start at

738
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,440
chapter two and the production values

739
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:32,159
are

740
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,600
a lot better and everyone's a lot more

741
00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:35,600
you know hitting the ground running kind

742
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,200
of thing yeah and that chapter of the

743
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,880
story

744
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,679
has kind of finished and you know all

745
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:45,360
you need to know is that uh xyz is the

746
00:26:41,679 --> 00:26:46,880
uh the big bad end guy um and we're

747
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,159
we're trying to do this or we're trying

748
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,960
to do that

749
00:26:48,159 --> 00:26:52,720
maybe just do a little entry yeah so

750
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,010
there there's there we are sorting other

751
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,679
people's podcasting for them

752
00:26:54,010 --> 00:26:57,919
[Laughter]

753
00:26:55,679 --> 00:27:00,880
sorry guys it's a two-for-one benefit

754
00:26:57,919 --> 00:27:00,880
this show everybody

755
00:27:01,039 --> 00:27:04,480
no that's that you know a please that's

756
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,799
the the purpose of this especially this

757
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,640
episode more than others is insight and

758
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:11,520
experience and knowledge and stuff so

759
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,720
please go ahead but the more people that

760
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,400
come out the other side are listening to

761
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,799
this and go hey i didn't know that going

762
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,930
in that's all that's all i'm after so

763
00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:23,259
good please

764
00:27:19,930 --> 00:27:23,259
[Music]

765
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,880
so we've danced around the topic a

766
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:36,880
little bit but and you've obviously

767
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:39,120
mentioned a couple that you like now we

768
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,960
can start to anonymize things because

769
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:44,080
the perhaps difficult question i want to

770
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:46,720
ask you is what makes a good

771
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,480
real play podcast and what makes maybe

772
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,360
you're not so good and maybe now you

773
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,159
want to

774
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:54,880
not use names there yeah

775
00:27:52,159 --> 00:27:57,200
okay so i think for me

776
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,679
there's there's a few things so

777
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,799
what i like about the podcasts that i

778
00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:06,000
that i like and i listen to is i'm not

779
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:08,960
listening to a story so much but i'm

780
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,720
transported to a table so

781
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:15,039
certainly the the role the damn dice

782
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:17,600
guys and the dyson die and dyson desire

783
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:19,120
guys they take me to their table so

784
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:23,039
while i'm listening

785
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:26,399
i'm almost uh i'm like an nps or an you

786
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:29,039
know non-player yeah player i'm an mpp

787
00:28:26,399 --> 00:28:31,120
sat there sat at their table just not

788
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:32,960
saying a lot and it's sometimes actually

789
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:35,120
saying a lot because i'm answering their

790
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,200
questions and i'm you know bantering

791
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:39,279
with them in my head kind of thing um

792
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,520
and i think that's that's what i really

793
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:43,679
like about some of the the the real play

794
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,279
stuff is i'm there i'm literally at the

795
00:28:43,679 --> 00:28:47,360
table with them i'm going no don't do

796
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:49,679
that you banana what do you think you're

797
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,440
doing no don't go down the stairs and

798
00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:52,960
they're doing something i'm like no i

799
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,520
know that that's going to be a bad idea

800
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,679
don't do it and i'm actually there at

801
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,799
their table with them and that's

802
00:28:57,679 --> 00:29:03,120
that's brilliant and i feel like you

803
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:05,440
know if they once were done with all

804
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,520
this lockdown malarkey if they said come

805
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,440
down the pub have a pint with us i'd be

806
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,960
there and i'd be straight into the

807
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,720
banter with them

808
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,039
and i think that's that's the really

809
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,679
important thing i like

810
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:20,000
back and forth quips and jokes and stuff

811
00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:21,679
like that and you know you rick kind of

812
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,159
comments um

813
00:29:21,679 --> 00:29:25,840
i like all that banter and being at a

814
00:29:24,159 --> 00:29:28,320
table where there's all that kind of

815
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,440
banter and silliness i think really

816
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,120
works yeah so that's that's what i like

817
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,200
now the stuff that

818
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,440
maybe leaves me a little bit cooler a

819
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,279
little bit colder mm-hmm and it's a

820
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,880
really it is a really interesting one

821
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:42,720
and this is possibly a controversial

822
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,760
statement um because i am going to name

823
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:48,960
names not in a bad way but i i read lots

824
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,000
of about one of the podcasts and you

825
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,919
know everyone would have heard of

826
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,640
critical role yeah yeah

827
00:29:51,919 --> 00:29:54,799
and

828
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,200
i've never listened to the show so more

829
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:59,279
than you know watching a few excerpts

830
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,600
and things like that and i love what

831
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:03,200
they're doing but i also

832
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,200
don't love what they're doing yeah and

833
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,279
in in almost equal measure

834
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,360
so so i will explain rather than just

835
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:11,679
leave her let me just say

836
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,480
you don't have to worry about me because

837
00:30:11,679 --> 00:30:15,520
um

838
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:18,640
on another episode of this uh macro uh

839
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:21,440
nathan and i talk about a quick role and

840
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,120
firstly you've proven my point in that

841
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,320
you can't really talk about dnd without

842
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,480
talking about critical role because of

843
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,840
how ubiquitous it is so thank you very

844
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,600
much for proving a point i made a few

845
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,200
weeks ago very happy with that there's a

846
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,279
very uh

847
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,600
evil grin on my face

848
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:37,200
and secondly in that episode you'll find

849
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,240
that yeah i'm not

850
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:42,000
like a huge huge fan so please don't uh

851
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,440
don't worry about offending me

852
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,039
okay cool

853
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,559
um so

854
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:49,520
so yes i

855
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:50,960
i what i do what i love is they have

856
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,760
brought dmd

857
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,480
to

858
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,760
lots and lots and lots of people so when

859
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,559
i was a kid

860
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,440
as i said my my journey into dnd

861
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:05,200
started when i was 12 and literally

862
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,320
nobody had heard of it so yeah i started

863
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,840
playing

864
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,600
none of my friends knew about it there

865
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,960
were two guys at school that played it

866
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,519
that was it

867
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,159
so i started hanging out with them i got

868
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:18,399
into it based on the warlock of fire top

869
00:31:16,159 --> 00:31:19,360
mountain books

870
00:31:18,399 --> 00:31:21,279
yeah yeah

871
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,159
so i got that i can remember going with

872
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:26,080
my nan to buy that um probably in the

873
00:31:24,159 --> 00:31:28,799
summer holiday of uh

874
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,320
of going into into big school

875
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:32,559
and i loved it and that's that's what

876
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,159
got me into that whole journey um but

877
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:35,840
there was there was nothing like

878
00:31:34,159 --> 00:31:37,600
listening to other people doing it or

879
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,840
anything like that yeah and then we'd go

880
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,919
to there was a shop in bristol where i

881
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,320
lived called the forever people so if

882
00:31:41,919 --> 00:31:46,080
there's any old people old gamers will

883
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,240
have remembered that but probably nobody

884
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,320
else will and you could watch the

885
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,399
um i would have been the students i

886
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,480
guess back then from bristol university

887
00:31:52,399 --> 00:31:56,080
they would play in the shop on a

888
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,480
saturday morning yeah it was brilliant

889
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,880
it was like spectator sport for me you

890
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,120
know i'd go and watch them play you know

891
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,080
dungeons and dragons yes yeah that is

892
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,919
okay that's really cool yep oh it was

893
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,159
because it again it taught me so much

894
00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:12,000
and critical role

895
00:32:10,159 --> 00:32:13,919
either you know the modern day bristol

896
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,640
university geeks playing d d on a

897
00:32:13,919 --> 00:32:19,600
saturday morning they have brought

898
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,039
it to the masses and you know for that i

899
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,399
think it's brilliant

900
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:26,559
there's so many people on dnd twitter

901
00:32:24,399 --> 00:32:29,360
that just wouldn't be there were it not

902
00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:30,559
for critical role so that's that's great

903
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,000
but also

904
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:33,120
i think it

905
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:37,120
puts

906
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:40,880
unfair and unrealistic expectations

907
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,399
on dms to make it a show to do all the

908
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:46,159
voices to

909
00:32:42,399 --> 00:32:48,640
have props and meanies and amazing maps

910
00:32:46,159 --> 00:32:53,279
and all that kind of stuff yeah and

911
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:54,480
i i know that if i was if i was so idm

912
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:56,880
for

913
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,200
my son and a group of his friends on a

914
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,080
on a what day friday afternoon after

915
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,519
school

916
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,240
um and

917
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:06,159
we we use roll 20 so i've just bought

918
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,200
the module that we're doing

919
00:33:06,159 --> 00:33:09,200
um

920
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,120
and i do it on there but it's always

921
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,760
full of oh how did you get this thing to

922
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,640
do that and yeah it's all very

923
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:19,120
bit slow a bit clunky and i

924
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,120
very rare i i sometimes do voices not

925
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,720
very often but it's

926
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,039
it's descriptive it's theater of the

927
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,279
mind for me and that's very much how i

928
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:29,279
play and that's my play style now had

929
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:32,000
they come from the look we've seen

930
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:33,039
critical role we want to play d we want

931
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,919
to need you

932
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:37,440
exactly exactly i'd i'd be

933
00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:39,039
you know i'd be the world's worst

934
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,240
dungeon master for them because they'd

935
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:43,760
be looking at it and saying you know

936
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,279
well you know

937
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,360
dwarfs are supposed to have scottish

938
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:49,120
accents aren't they why aren't you doing

939
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,480
why aren't you doing that and why aren't

940
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,120
you doing this and

941
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,120
you know can we have minis and you know

942
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,919
glam it up a bit and

943
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,159
so i wonder how many people

944
00:33:57,919 --> 00:34:03,440
um and this is something that you can't

945
00:34:00,159 --> 00:34:04,880
ever answer but had d become as popular

946
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,600
as it has

947
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,520
with critical role being

948
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,919
less exuberant

949
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,839
i wonder how many more people would be

950
00:34:11,919 --> 00:34:16,079
staying with the game or keen to have a

951
00:34:13,839 --> 00:34:17,839
go at being a dm and saying

952
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:18,560
you know i'll give that a go because i

953
00:34:17,839 --> 00:34:20,960
know

954
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,399
i know i see quite a few people on

955
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,560
twitter saying

956
00:34:22,399 --> 00:34:27,200
i'm the dm i'm really for the first time

957
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,919
i'm really nervous about it yeah and

958
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,839
well it's it's just a game just

959
00:34:29,919 --> 00:34:34,240
just roll with it it's absolutely fine

960
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:36,399
there's nothing to be nervous about just

961
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:38,320
discover your style and just go for it

962
00:34:36,399 --> 00:34:39,760
and i wonder how much of that nerves is

963
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,079
born out of

964
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,760
not going to be as good as matt and you

965
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:45,440
know i'll ruin the game for my players

966
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,720
when actually all your players need is a

967
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,399
framework

968
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:51,200
you tell them what's going on and for

969
00:34:48,399 --> 00:34:53,919
them to do some stuff yeah yeah they're

970
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,879
kind of self-imposed expectations

971
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:57,200
on

972
00:34:54,879 --> 00:34:58,160
themselves which uh no one else really

973
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,240
should

974
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,960
should have you know it's the dm's

975
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:05,440
game to a certain extent so yeah as you

976
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:08,000
said find your way of doing it and

977
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,359
roll with it yeah exactly and you know i

978
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,079
look back to

979
00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:14,240
uh some of the early early modules and

980
00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:16,640
things like that and it was very much a

981
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:19,040
dm's framework i

982
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,040
you know i think you said earlier you're

983
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,880
you know we're near as old as me um so

984
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,040
you won't remember the the sort of the

985
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,720
against the giants modules and the

986
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,880
expeditions to the barrier peaks and

987
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:32,000
things like that and and even within

988
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,079
those as purchased modules so you buy a

989
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:37,119
module to tell the story for you and

990
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:39,440
huge swathes of it were was like there

991
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:40,800
here's an entire floor just populate it

992
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,680
as you see fit

993
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,920
um

994
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,480
yeah absolutely so

995
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:49,520
you know i can remember as a as a 13

996
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,520
year old dm looking at that thinking

997
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,280
what am i going to do how can i do that

998
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:57,280
but but necessity dictates that you come

999
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,280
up with some stuff

1000
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,480
so as a dm it's for you to tell the

1001
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,320
story

1002
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,839
i don't think you need to worry too much

1003
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,640
about

1004
00:36:03,839 --> 00:36:08,079
how you tell that story just just tell

1005
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,640
the story

1006
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:13,440
frame it and let the players come up

1007
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,359
with what they want yeah no i'm

1008
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,520
absolutely the same school of thought

1009
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:19,839
and i was in a discussion with somebody

1010
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,000
on twitter probably about a month ago

1011
00:36:19,839 --> 00:36:23,920
now we were talking about exactly that

1012
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,440
actually the mercer effect as they call

1013
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,560
it someone made a post about it

1014
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,640
something and

1015
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,640
and this person i was talking to said oh

1016
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,160
come on is that is that really a thing

1017
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,240
if your players are thinking that then

1018
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,520
this you know then they're idiots or

1019
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:37,359
there's something wrong with them you

1020
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,040
know i can't believe anyone would ever

1021
00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:41,680
think that and i said

1022
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,180
hey it is absolutely a thing because

1023
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,640
matt said it himself so

1024
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:47,599
[Laughter]

1025
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,960
and b if if exactly like you've said

1026
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:51,040
for a lot of people that's going to be

1027
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,320
their entry point that's going to be

1028
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,240
their gateway

1029
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,160
and so that's going to be their only

1030
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:59,280
single frame of reference

1031
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:01,359
so it's just going to happen

1032
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,280
so absolutely like you know that that's

1033
00:37:01,359 --> 00:37:05,040
what they're going to expect and setting

1034
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,359
expectations is

1035
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,119
super super important if that's the case

1036
00:37:07,359 --> 00:37:10,960
and it happened with a couple of my

1037
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:12,960
players who said oh i've watched this

1038
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,680
thing and i've gone yeah don't but you

1039
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,200
know that ain't me so

1040
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,640
you know temper your expectations

1041
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,640
because it's gonna be a different game

1042
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,560
it's a it's a little bit like watching

1043
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,400
professional football on the telly

1044
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,720
versus having a knock about with the

1045
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:29,280
kids and the park on the sunday

1046
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:31,839
you know i'm i'm never going to do

1047
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:34,160
bicycle kicks and goodness knows what in

1048
00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:37,040
the box because you know

1049
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,720
i'm 50 years old yeah i think i i think

1050
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,599
that's a really interesting and maybe

1051
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:44,640
that's a wider that's not just critical

1052
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:46,640
role maybe that's a that's a instagram

1053
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,680
tick tock um

1054
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,680
thing maybe you know because i've got

1055
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,359
i've got kids and

1056
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,359
um you know they're all

1057
00:37:53,359 --> 00:37:57,040
wanting to do on their bikes they all

1058
00:37:55,359 --> 00:37:58,960
want to be able to do massive long

1059
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,560
wheelies or massive very big jumps and

1060
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,599
all that kind of stuff you know when i

1061
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,040
was a kid

1062
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:07,520
a long time ago um i was happy if my

1063
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,599
bike got me from a to b without

1064
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:12,880
anything happening

1065
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:15,520
particularly you know not falling off um

1066
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:18,000
was you know it was good enough for me

1067
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,000
um whereas now uh

1068
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,320
i'd lose count the amount of times i've

1069
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,400
fixed the kids bikes because they want

1070
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,400
to do bunny hops they want you know they

1071
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,880
they can't go over a speed bump without

1072
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:32,160
trying to bunny hop over it or wheelie

1073
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:34,000
over it or jump off um curbs and you

1074
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:37,760
know it's all because they've seen all

1075
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:40,079
the the mountain bikers and yes it's

1076
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,960
seeing other people do stuff is so much

1077
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:42,800
more

1078
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,720
available nowadays

1079
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,440
than actually that almost that joy of

1080
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:49,839
discovering it yourself has gone

1081
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,520
yeah yeah it's a bit bittersweet isn't

1082
00:38:49,839 --> 00:38:53,440
it yes particularly because we're

1083
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,119
talking about podcasts which is

1084
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,960
literally about watching and hearing

1085
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:58,720
other people do something

1086
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,119
i think to let's

1087
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:03,839
let me make it not just another daniel

1088
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:05,040
bash's critical role um so there's a

1089
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:08,720
there's another

1090
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,560
pretty much my own lee podcast that i

1091
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:13,200
the only podcast that i listen to is

1092
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,440
called not another d podcast or nadpod

1093
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,920
for sure which is done

1094
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,480
it's american b there's only three

1095
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,800
players and it's they're all from

1096
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,079
konashima background

1097
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,720
and

1098
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:28,720
that is kind of very

1099
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,320
i guess uh

1100
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:33,040
not very rules

1101
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,800
strict it's very you know soft touch

1102
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:38,560
it's a lot more improvisational it's a

1103
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:41,200
lot more of a improv comedy podcast

1104
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:44,320
with some d d stuff to help it move

1105
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,520
along and my point being is that it can

1106
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,960
also set

1107
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,720
a very different

1108
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,160
perception of the game you know if that

1109
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,680
was somebody's first

1110
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,359
impression of you know maybe they've

1111
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,880
come from collegehumor or the other work

1112
00:39:53,359 --> 00:39:56,400
the other guys do on the podcast and

1113
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,640
have come to that and i've gone oh well

1114
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,920
this is d is it where

1115
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,400
you

1116
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:03,920
you know the way they play of

1117
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,520
mate telling jokes and maybe there's

1118
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,920
only a couple of roles a session and the

1119
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,960
rules are very loosey-goosey in some

1120
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,319
places and then they start to play and

1121
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,000
you come at it from that direction it

1122
00:40:12,319 --> 00:40:14,880
can be again a very different experience

1123
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,480
so

1124
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,079
it's not all matthew mercer's fault i

1125
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,800
suppose

1126
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:22,839
no of course i i you know i i completely

1127
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:26,000
i completely agree

1128
00:40:22,839 --> 00:40:28,160
um yeah i i think it's it's just

1129
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,480
difficult it's not you can't you can't

1130
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,960
base your play style on

1131
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,440
anybody else and i think players

1132
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,280
players probably understand that and you

1133
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,400
know as i think you said earlier it's a

1134
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,599
self-imposed

1135
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,760
um

1136
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:43,440
thing you know i'm i don't want to let

1137
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,280
my players down i want them to think

1138
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,880
that that this is cool but you know what

1139
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,400
i can't remember every single uh rule i

1140
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,280
have to look things up i can't quite

1141
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,359
remember you know so you know i have a i

1142
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,640
have a running list of what do we do

1143
00:40:55,359 --> 00:40:58,319
about that you know what i don't know

1144
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,119
but i'm going to say for this one just

1145
00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:03,280
give me a exactly blah blah check and

1146
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:04,880
then i'll um i'll look it up or if you

1147
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,280
if maybe if you need to do it again i'll

1148
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,599
look it up then but you know just for

1149
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,599
today let's just say do an athletics

1150
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:13,280
check yep there's such an elegant

1151
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:15,599
solution and again it's one of those

1152
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,000
things it's like duh it's of course it's

1153
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:20,560
the answer but it's that thing of

1154
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,520
let me look and run with it today if i

1155
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,599
was

1156
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,119
grossly wrong then

1157
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:27,040
if full disclosure players will change

1158
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:29,040
it going forward and wreck on it to a

1159
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,640
certain extent if it kind of worked and

1160
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,839
it doesn't break the game then we'll do

1161
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,400
that going forward

1162
00:41:31,839 --> 00:41:36,960
and that's it that's such a such a small

1163
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,480
easy decision and it can be you know

1164
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,359
that question can be resolved at the

1165
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,480
table

1166
00:41:39,359 --> 00:41:42,079
like that

1167
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,160
yeah

1168
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:46,160
yeah we've just had we've just had that

1169
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:49,520
we're running through our our thursday

1170
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,800
night game um we're running through the

1171
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,240
against the

1172
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,760
uh the dragons um so tier matt and so

1173
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:58,880
we've we finished the first one the

1174
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:01,599
horde of the dragon queen i think it was

1175
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,079
uh we finished that and we are literally

1176
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:06,880
this last thursday just started the rise

1177
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:09,440
of tier map and our our dm first thing

1178
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,520
he said right was right so you're you're

1179
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,720
effectively level eight now do you want

1180
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:17,119
to re-do anything on your character so

1181
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:19,520
do you want to have gone back retconned

1182
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:21,200
taken a different so i'm a bard so

1183
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,800
taking a different college

1184
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,800
change some spells up that kind of stuff

1185
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,960
now i know some people would look at

1186
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,800
that and go you can't do that you could

1187
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,480
only change one spell in between levels

1188
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,480
and things like that but for us as a

1189
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,720
group that's the you know we learned a

1190
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,920
lot we fought the white dragon on top of

1191
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:41,359
the um the flying ice

1192
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:43,599
castle so do we need to put more damage

1193
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:46,319
output do we need to do this so let's

1194
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:48,480
work at it as a party and say how does

1195
00:42:46,319 --> 00:42:51,040
it work best for us and it's it's our

1196
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,319
game yeah for sure gotta work best for

1197
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,319
us

1198
00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:56,160
yeah i did something similar with my

1199
00:42:54,319 --> 00:42:58,640
with my players it was just a lot

1200
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,680
earlier on at level three i basically

1201
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,240
said

1202
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,000
okay you've had three levels now

1203
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:05,520
do you want to change literally anything

1204
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,480
and i'm happy to

1205
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,760
accommodate it and retcon because

1206
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,440
they're quite big decisions and if

1207
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,280
you're not happy with it then i'd rather

1208
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,880
we change now rather than use it through

1209
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,280
another 10 levels

1210
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,359
of unsatisfaction yes

1211
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,800
i think that's i think that's right

1212
00:43:19,359 --> 00:43:22,800
uh you said there about you know it's

1213
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,000
it's your game and

1214
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,440
you got to play it

1215
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,480
you know the way you want to play it do

1216
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,160
you think

1217
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,000
doing it for a podcast or a stream

1218
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,920
changes that mentality a little bit and

1219
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,079
you have to say it's not just our game

1220
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,520
anymore we have to consider the wider

1221
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:37,760
world and if so

1222
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,599
what considerations have to be made well

1223
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,880
that's a good question isn't it who who

1224
00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:42,240
owns your

1225
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,440
ip

1226
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:44,960
um

1227
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,440
i think it

1228
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:50,319
i think it does i think you

1229
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,560
you know you have to be more aware

1230
00:43:50,319 --> 00:43:54,319
certainly the guys uh you know i have

1231
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,800
every admiration for the guys that are

1232
00:43:54,319 --> 00:43:59,040
out there playing whilst streaming live

1233
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,560
and people are watching on twitch

1234
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,400
because i've had

1235
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,760
i've i've been listening to stuff and

1236
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,280
people saying

1237
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,200
you know i'll do this and then a couple

1238
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,040
of minutes you know and i'll think

1239
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,520
not sure you can do that you know i

1240
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,720
guess i'll cast this spell right hang on

1241
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,319
a sec i'm pretty sure that's got a

1242
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:16,480
casting time of a minute you're not

1243
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:18,720
going to do that in combat yeah but it

1244
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,040
doesn't matter um and then five minutes

1245
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:22,720
later somebody says in the twitch

1246
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,240
well you can't do you know push his

1247
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,119
glasses back on tonight you can't do

1248
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:26,480
that

1249
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:27,200
um it's like

1250
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,440
so

1251
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,440
it is their game as much as your game by

1252
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,680
by the very definition that you've

1253
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,200
opened your front door and said um you

1254
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,280
know have a look through our front door

1255
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,079
have a look through our windows yeah um

1256
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,440
and you know we are there kind of thing

1257
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:44,000
so yeah i'd

1258
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,839
i'd it's a really good question and on

1259
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,040
the fly i'm not sure

1260
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:50,000
because

1261
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:52,319
because yes so so let let's take that

1262
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,880
you can't do that it's a minute spell

1263
00:44:52,319 --> 00:44:56,960
you know moment of being corrected oh

1264
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,720
yeah okay um

1265
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,920
against then the next time you want to

1266
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:02,079
do it well i'll do that and always

1267
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,200
getting it wrong

1268
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:05,599
i don't know

1269
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,040
um but yes you you are opening your

1270
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:09,599
doors and you are if you're inviting

1271
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:12,000
people in then i think you almost have a

1272
00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:14,560
you have an obligation to your audience

1273
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:17,040
as much as anything mm-hmm right

1274
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,119
yeah it's it's i'm sorry for putting you

1275
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,599
on the spot now no no no i'm grinning

1276
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:23,119
but i'm sorry here

1277
00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:25,119
but it is one of those things that's

1278
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:27,200
like yes it's your game and yes you

1279
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:29,760
should run it how you want and just

1280
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,119
enable other people to view it but also

1281
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,560
in the same way

1282
00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:33,760
that you can't have your cake and eat it

1283
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,440
right you've got to open that front door

1284
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,200
and allow people to say oh i don't like

1285
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,760
the curtains you've got in your house as

1286
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:42,560
in they can provide feedback and

1287
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,599
criticism which kind of implies then

1288
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,520
that maybe

1289
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:47,359
as you said you've got a responsibility

1290
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,440
to a certain extent to

1291
00:45:47,359 --> 00:45:52,079
a accept that criticism and b

1292
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,040
potentially act on it if it's legitimate

1293
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:55,040
yes

1294
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,760
absolutely if you're going to if you're

1295
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,200
going to say we've got xp you know we've

1296
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,079
got x number of people listening

1297
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,920
watching if that's something that's

1298
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:06,000
a factor a feature

1299
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,680
that you're sharing then yeah you've

1300
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,040
opened your

1301
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,880
you've opened your front door you've

1302
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,480
opened your shopping

1303
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,359
shop window

1304
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,720
and you're you are selling to somebody

1305
00:46:15,359 --> 00:46:18,560
regardless of whether that's not

1306
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:22,400
important to you you know whether you've

1307
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:24,160
got one one watcher or 500 watchers

1308
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,280
you're still opening and saying you know

1309
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,200
watch us

1310
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,079
watch us play this game yeah you know

1311
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:32,160
they are they are an audience mm-hmm

1312
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:34,240
yeah and i've i've had no real negative

1313
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,560
feedback so i just have to assume my

1314
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:39,359
podcast is perfect so uh yeah or

1315
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,359
nobody's listening

1316
00:46:40,319 --> 00:46:44,960
all right we're ending the show there

1317
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,960
today uh thanks for coming

1318
00:46:46,319 --> 00:46:48,800
sorry mate

1319
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,839
so um

1320
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:56,800
so i touched it earlier about

1321
00:46:53,839 --> 00:46:59,440
different types of actual plays or real

1322
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,280
plays of there's more

1323
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,880
improv versus

1324
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:07,839
planned versus serious and more jokey

1325
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,599
kind of ones so i think it's safe to say

1326
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:11,839
because they've admitted it themselves

1327
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:13,520
that crit coral is

1328
00:47:11,839 --> 00:47:16,720
not scripted but

1329
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:18,400
has more railroady parts because just

1330
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,680
like we've just been saying they

1331
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,520
appreciate that they've got a story to

1332
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,880
tell and it isn't just for them anymore

1333
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,319
so they've said

1334
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,160
you know i think matt said in the past

1335
00:47:24,319 --> 00:47:27,839
that he might approach a couple of the

1336
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,440
players ahead of the time and say this

1337
00:47:27,839 --> 00:47:31,280
is what i've got planned

1338
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,200
you might want to think about how you're

1339
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,359
going to play at the table kind of thing

1340
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:38,160
just so that it's not a mess when they

1341
00:47:35,359 --> 00:47:40,559
come to record it versus something like

1342
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,559
well i'm sure nad pod do it but

1343
00:47:40,559 --> 00:47:44,880
more improvisational games where it's

1344
00:47:42,559 --> 00:47:47,040
just uh yeah where it's just uh let's

1345
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:50,319
make things up on the spot i don't know

1346
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:53,599
what do you prefer and also in the same

1347
00:47:50,319 --> 00:47:56,800
breadth more serious you know

1348
00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:58,319
heavy emotional beats versus goofy

1349
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,559
we're just mucking around what do you

1350
00:47:58,319 --> 00:48:02,960
prefer do you think any uh podcasts are

1351
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:05,359
more suited to a certain kind i don't

1352
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,359
know what your thoughts on that one yeah

1353
00:48:05,359 --> 00:48:09,040
so i i i think

1354
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:10,000
that's again that's another really good

1355
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,480
question

1356
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:15,440
um i think i am more

1357
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:17,599
emotionally drawn to the

1358
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,079
keeping it real

1359
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:23,599
type of podcasts so the ones that i tend

1360
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:26,079
to gravitate towards are the ones that

1361
00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:27,359
play the same sort of game that i play

1362
00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:29,760
with my friends

1363
00:48:27,359 --> 00:48:32,240
which you know which

1364
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,559
um i'm i'm quite happy

1365
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,920
with a bit of railroading obviously by

1366
00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:39,760
definition in fact you know we all live

1367
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:41,760
busy lives these days i sadly don't have

1368
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:44,480
hours and hours to spend

1369
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:46,400
writing modules or writing adventures as

1370
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:49,280
much as i'd love to and and lord are my

1371
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,359
friends um so we tend to play stuff

1372
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,240
that's bought i'm running the lads

1373
00:48:51,359 --> 00:48:55,359
through tales from the yawning portal

1374
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:56,640
at the moment

1375
00:48:55,359 --> 00:48:59,680
and

1376
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:01,839
i kind of have to railroad them because

1377
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,240
if they go off on a tangent i've got

1378
00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:05,040
nothing prepped i don't have the time

1379
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:06,720
and

1380
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,680
i don't i don't want to do a sub

1381
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:12,160
standard you know yeah um you just

1382
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,240
waffle waffle waffle kind of

1383
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,720
just random nonsense just for the sake

1384
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:18,960
of it yeah yeah exactly you know yes

1385
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:19,920
you've got some you could random um

1386
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,400
generate

1387
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,400
dungeons and goodness says what um but

1388
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:28,000
it doesn't make for a good story

1389
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:31,200
so i tend to keep them on track

1390
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:34,559
a little bit uh and i know my dm

1391
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:36,400
did that a reasonable amount through um

1392
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:38,079
horde of the dragon queen

1393
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,240
because because you've got a book that

1394
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:41,680
you've invested some money in and you've

1395
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:43,599
invested some

1396
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,280
time and you know

1397
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:47,920
emotion into

1398
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:50,480
we we're going to tell that story

1399
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,119
together effectively so i tend to i tend

1400
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,079
to be quite happy with a little bit of

1401
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:56,400
um

1402
00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:59,680
a bit of railroading i don't

1403
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:02,480
you know i don't have any objections to

1404
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:04,240
um you know you you go down the road um

1405
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,319
it forks left and right

1406
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:07,839
left takes you off to somewhere that i

1407
00:50:06,319 --> 00:50:09,599
haven't designed yet right takes you to

1408
00:50:07,839 --> 00:50:11,599
the bit that i've done you know and if

1409
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:14,559
we go the wrong way just swap it around

1410
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:17,040
i don't yeah i don't mind

1411
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:19,040
i have having having said that i don't

1412
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:22,079
like to feel that i'm

1413
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:24,240
i have no control as a player so i can

1414
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,359
remember once a long time ago

1415
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,960
getting

1416
00:50:25,359 --> 00:50:29,760
a really good

1417
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,200
critical hit in against

1418
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,520
against a

1419
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:35,599
key npc

1420
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:38,240
when we'd damaged her quite a lot and

1421
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:40,960
there was no doubt in my mind that that

1422
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:42,720
critical would have killed her yeah um

1423
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,800
you know i think we were playing some of

1424
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:46,240
the slightly alternative

1425
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,160
rules around

1426
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:49,280
constitution i can't quite remember how

1427
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,280
we did it but

1428
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,800
like rather than doing hit point damage

1429
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,599
you have

1430
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,240
sort of

1431
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:57,680
the ability to i hit dice damage or

1432
00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:59,200
something back then i think that was a

1433
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,400
that was an option back in three or

1434
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,760
three point five

1435
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:05,119
um or four i can't remember um but i was

1436
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,880
of no

1437
00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:09,599
doubt that it would kill her and her

1438
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:13,280
response was obviously the dm wanted to

1439
00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:15,520
keep her alive for later on was to

1440
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,599
disengage from combat and run away i was

1441
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,359
like well i'll fire an arrow uh well you

1442
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:21,520
can't see where she went but hang on a

1443
00:51:19,359 --> 00:51:23,200
sec you know i'm in the woods

1444
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,280
explain to me how somebody running away

1445
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:27,440
from me i can't see where they've gone

1446
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,800
immediately you know it's it that that

1447
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,920
was

1448
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:34,240
being railroaded to that level was this

1449
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:36,800
disconcerting and um

1450
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:39,359
so it's quite a long lot of words to say

1451
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:42,319
um i'm fairly happy to go with the flow

1452
00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:43,520
really yeah i do tend to prefer the the

1453
00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:45,359
fun

1454
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,200
not taking it too seriously i like i

1455
00:51:45,359 --> 00:51:49,440
like has to take it

1456
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:52,079
fairly serious so i have sort of table

1457
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,920
rules that i like to abide by you know

1458
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:55,839
when the dm says right it's your turn i

1459
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,839
like people to be ready i like you to

1460
00:51:55,839 --> 00:51:58,800
know what it is you're going to do

1461
00:51:57,839 --> 00:52:02,559
you know

1462
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:04,160
it frustrates me as a dm if i say to

1463
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:06,240
particularly one of the lads who tends

1464
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,839
you know they tend to be a little bit

1465
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:09,599
less focused

1466
00:52:07,839 --> 00:52:12,240
um right it's your go

1467
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:14,000
all right what what can i do again

1468
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:16,079
so it's like

1469
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,520
you can plan your go that's a great

1470
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:20,800
thing to do

1471
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:23,920
um so yeah yeah you know i've very

1472
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,760
similar in you know mix of of both and

1473
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,680
every so often i'm a heavy

1474
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,240
moment but then there's a lot of

1475
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,160
whimsical stuff in between to keep it

1476
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:33,680
light-hearted but yeah also i've given

1477
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,680
my players a soft automation over the

1478
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,040
christmas period to say get your stuff

1479
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,280
together because

1480
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,359
you know if you don't have your turn

1481
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,800
ready then you'll take your dodge action

1482
00:52:41,359 --> 00:52:44,640
then i'll move on because we don't have

1483
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,880
time anymore to wait

1484
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,559
50 sessions in know your stuff

1485
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,480
or take the dodge action that's

1486
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:51,920
basically i really like that yeah if you

1487
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,319
if you're not ready to do something just

1488
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,200
dodge yeah yeah there's a there's a lot

1489
00:52:54,319 --> 00:52:56,640
i'm not

1490
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,079
i'm not about to kick him out the game

1491
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,319
and say you know you've got half a

1492
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:01,920
second to decide there's a window but if

1493
00:53:00,319 --> 00:53:03,359
they're still like oh

1494
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,040
maybe i should do this maybe we should

1495
00:53:03,359 --> 00:53:06,240
do that then i'll just go okay you've

1496
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,240
taken the dodge action because you've

1497
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:10,880
run out of time in your turn sorry move

1498
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:12,960
on yeah no i like that and i

1499
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,240
i think it's i i think it's fairly safe

1500
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,000
to tell you to tell you this because i

1501
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:17,839
don't think the guys will

1502
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,119
so the lads i teach on a friday i don't

1503
00:53:17,839 --> 00:53:21,359
think they'll be listening but one of

1504
00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:24,000
them on friday tried to

1505
00:53:21,359 --> 00:53:26,240
um he's playing a warlock and he tried

1506
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:28,160
to cast a spell and i said hang on i'm

1507
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:30,000
pretty sure that that's not a warlock

1508
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:32,079
spell if you look to that no that's not

1509
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,400
a warlock spell you don't know right oh

1510
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:37,839
isn't it of course this is still instead

1511
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:40,400
yeah no that's clear expose as well

1512
00:53:37,839 --> 00:53:43,680
so so know you know your

1513
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,280
character he he wanted to play a fighter

1514
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,839
yep and then

1515
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,040
whimsically just as we're rolling at

1516
00:53:47,839 --> 00:53:50,000
character says oh i'm going to be a

1517
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,040
warlock

1518
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:55,280
okay that's fine learn your character

1519
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,400
because i'm not go you know i'm not

1520
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,079
going to tell you

1521
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,280
what to do

1522
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:01,280
you know i'll give you a little bit of

1523
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:04,480
advice because you're you're all new to

1524
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:07,520
it but i'm not playing against myself no

1525
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,800
and one thing that you can be sure of is

1526
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:11,359
if you do

1527
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,559
the royal you ever make a podcast or a

1528
00:54:11,359 --> 00:54:14,240
stream and if you don't know your

1529
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:15,760
character then you can bet the people

1530
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:17,520
that listen definitely will and are

1531
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,079
going to let you know that they know

1532
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,319
oh absolutely you know absolutely if

1533
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:25,200
you're you know if you're playing a bard

1534
00:54:22,319 --> 00:54:27,599
and um you know you're toe to toe and

1535
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,839
you're not casting vicious mockery and

1536
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:30,880
things like that people are going to say

1537
00:54:29,839 --> 00:54:32,160
what are you doing why aren't you

1538
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,720
playing fighter

1539
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:36,799
quite right though yeah yeah it's that

1540
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:40,480
opening the door to

1541
00:54:36,799 --> 00:54:42,240
feedback is the nice way to put it

1542
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,680
feedback is a gift

1543
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:45,040
so we've talked about

1544
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:48,480
real place

1545
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:50,400
of which i happen to be part of one uh

1546
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,599
dungeons dice and dudes that is very

1547
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,359
much a

1548
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:55,200
the dm has said

1549
00:54:53,359 --> 00:54:56,720
he wants it still to be us mates playing

1550
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,280
first and then

1551
00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:01,920
the second is that it's a podcast so

1552
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,280
that is very much what you were alluding

1553
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,880
to earlier on with at the moment it's

1554
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:08,400
still very much full of

1555
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:10,240
you know in jokes and memes and

1556
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,160
just five guys

1557
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:14,240
playing dice uh and

1558
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,760
playing dice playing dungeons dragons

1559
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:17,839
with dice

1560
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:20,319
so that is

1561
00:55:17,839 --> 00:55:22,240
interesting and admittedly i haven't as

1562
00:55:20,319 --> 00:55:24,880
a player had to change

1563
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:27,680
too much around how i would

1564
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:30,160
normally play i know that over the

1565
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:32,319
christmas period we moved to

1566
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:35,040
streaming and

1567
00:55:32,319 --> 00:55:39,440
what i can say is that the dm was

1568
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:42,400
i i do not envy him at all a it's

1569
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:44,160
difficult enough damning remotely just

1570
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:47,520
trying to get you know

1571
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:49,440
just like herding cats sometimes so yeah

1572
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,280
i'm trying to do that regular technical

1573
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,280
difficulties is everyone on discord yes

1574
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,280
is everyone on the you know role 20 no

1575
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,359
why can't you oh i can't my camera's not

1576
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,839
working okay right you know just just

1577
00:55:57,359 --> 00:56:01,520
trying to sort that out plus

1578
00:55:59,839 --> 00:56:02,720
regular twitch

1579
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,559
malarkey

1580
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:06,880
stuff just trying to arrange all that

1581
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:09,280
plus music plus recording

1582
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,550
yeah i was like yeah i'm really happy to

1583
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,079
just be a player right now

1584
00:56:10,550 --> 00:56:15,359
[Laughter]

1585
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:17,760
yes yeah if it gets to be um more than a

1586
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:19,760
your normal day job um in terms of

1587
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,280
complexity

1588
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,720
yeah he was like i'm looking forward to

1589
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,240
just going back to her podcasts and

1590
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:26,000
playing in person because then it's just

1591
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:26,960
a microphone slammed in the middle of

1592
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:27,760
the table

1593
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,960
and

1594
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,400
he's happy

1595
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,319
so there's there's obviously we've

1596
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:35,520
talked about real plays

1597
00:56:32,319 --> 00:56:37,440
but there is a subset of which we find

1598
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,680
ourselves recording for now

1599
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:42,160
which i've dubbed kind of alternative

1600
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:45,200
discussion shows uh and by alternative i

1601
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:47,040
mean as an alternative to actual plays

1602
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,440
so i don't know if you

1603
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:52,160
listen to any like this there are a few

1604
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,079
i didn't think there were many but since

1605
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:57,599
dipping my toe in the social media

1606
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:58,400
network of twitter and stuff more have

1607
00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:00,160
become

1608
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,559
known to me so i don't know if you

1609
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,079
listen to any or have thoughts on these

1610
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:04,960
kind of meta

1611
00:57:04,079 --> 00:57:07,680
shows

1612
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:09,440
yeah so i think i i think they've

1613
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,680
definitely got a place i think it's

1614
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,839
important that there are um there are

1615
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:17,040
other shows out there you know it isn't

1616
00:57:13,839 --> 00:57:19,280
just about playing the game it's about

1617
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,119
you know understanding the game and and

1618
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,880
understanding all the other bits um and

1619
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:25,119
one of the main ones that i listen to is

1620
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:27,040
the dads and dragons show i don't know

1621
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:29,680
if you've come across that they did a

1622
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:32,880
real play bit over christmas but the

1623
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:35,119
majority of their show is more sort of

1624
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,599
digging into the rules so they've done

1625
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:40,400
like an overview of all the character

1626
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:43,040
classes and what sort of role the

1627
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,880
characters fit into and how do you can

1628
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,920
you tank with this and

1629
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:49,280
any dps or dpr with that

1630
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,520
and i think i think yeah you're

1631
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,720
absolutely right there is definitely a

1632
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,599
market

1633
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:57,200
out there for that kind of thing um

1634
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:58,799
just just listening

1635
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,079
you know it doesn't have to be playing

1636
00:57:58,799 --> 00:58:02,079
all the time

1637
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:04,960
i i can get just as much enjoyment out

1638
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:07,040
of listening to somebody else just talk

1639
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:10,000
about their experience of

1640
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:12,799
playing a rogue or or playing a warlock

1641
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:14,799
i've never played a sorcerer for example

1642
00:58:12,799 --> 00:58:16,799
not tried it um

1643
00:58:14,799 --> 00:58:18,480
probably won't try it not not because

1644
00:58:16,799 --> 00:58:21,520
i've got anything against it

1645
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:23,359
there's other classes i want to play um

1646
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,440
but listening to someone else talk about

1647
00:58:23,359 --> 00:58:27,680
it um you know

1648
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,599
like that well that's interesting i i

1649
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,839
listened to other people talking about

1650
00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:34,240
playing bards i thought i'll give that a

1651
00:58:31,839 --> 00:58:35,920
go and actually you know it's a it's the

1652
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,280
most fun character class i've ever

1653
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,680
played

1654
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:42,240
and i got that from listening to other

1655
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,680
people talking about playing bards and

1656
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,480
you know they're not just

1657
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,559
bad so not just a pretty face

1658
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,480
yes so yeah i think i think there's

1659
00:58:48,559 --> 00:58:52,799
definitely a

1660
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,880
there's an audience for that and

1661
00:58:52,799 --> 00:58:59,200
you know i if i ever i think this is how

1662
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:01,760
we got um together in terms of this was

1663
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:04,799
you know i i had previously said

1664
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:06,720
if i did a podcast where i just

1665
00:59:04,799 --> 00:59:09,359
chatted about the indie with somebody

1666
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:11,920
would you listen um and quite a number

1667
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:13,119
of people said oh yeah i would um so you

1668
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,640
know you never know that there might be

1669
00:59:13,119 --> 00:59:17,040
another one of those on the market soon

1670
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:19,839
oh well if you ever need any guests

1671
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,839
absolutely

1672
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,760
uh so i don't know if there's anything

1673
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:28,079
else you wanted to talk about

1674
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:30,400
um no not particularly um

1675
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:32,799
you know outside of the i suppose the

1676
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,000
only thing outside of this or the the

1677
00:59:32,799 --> 00:59:37,119
dnd

1678
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,960
um world of podcasts you know there are

1679
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:41,280
there are some actually some really good

1680
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,359
stuff out there it's almost a case of if

1681
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:45,680
you want to find out anything

1682
00:59:43,359 --> 00:59:46,720
just hit up a podcast i've i've listened

1683
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,160
to some

1684
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,240
um i don't know if you've come across

1685
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:53,040
the the bellingcat stuff that they've

1686
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:55,119
done um but if you oh if you like a good

1687
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:58,160
debunking of conspiracy theories style

1688
00:59:55,119 --> 01:00:00,960
of podcast then uh definitely give them

1689
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:03,920
a go and and also some um

1690
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:06,160
real story stuff i listened to one about

1691
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:08,640
uh a tunnel

1692
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:10,640
called tunnel 29 it was on the bbc that

1693
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,760
was absolutely brilliant that got me

1694
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,480
through some

1695
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:16,960
long journeys to work and stuff that was

1696
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:20,079
all about a guy that uh so after the

1697
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:22,319
wall went up he escaped from east to

1698
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:24,000
west berlin and

1699
01:00:22,319 --> 01:00:26,799
literally the first thing he did was

1700
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,640
once he escaped from east to west was

1701
01:00:26,799 --> 01:00:30,799
then to tunnel back

1702
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,680
to get a load more people out

1703
01:00:30,799 --> 01:00:34,079
and

1704
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:37,040
you know listening to his life story

1705
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:38,799
just you know remarkable stuff so so

1706
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,799
yeah don't don't just

1707
01:00:38,799 --> 01:00:44,079
focus on the indie podcast because you

1708
01:00:40,799 --> 01:00:46,079
can get ex in you can get ideas

1709
01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:48,480
from anything you know that whole idea

1710
01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:51,119
of tunneling tunneling in breaking

1711
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:54,720
people out of um a locked down city you

1712
01:00:51,119 --> 01:00:56,640
could use that yeah in d almost without

1713
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,599
changing it you could just use the whole

1714
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,799
story

1715
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:00,880
yeah that's going to say there's a lot

1716
01:00:58,799 --> 01:01:02,880
of room for inspiration even with the

1717
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,599
conspiracy theorists one what's better

1718
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:09,040
for your d d campaign than some

1719
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:12,240
crazy conspiracy theorists cultists

1720
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:14,000
yeah absolutely yeah absolutely

1721
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,480
cool okay so

1722
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:19,520
the only thing i wanted to

1723
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,880
my my final thought is that one thing i

1724
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:23,680
found while

1725
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:26,160
doing this particular podcast is

1726
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:27,760
sometimes it can feel like

1727
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:29,520
you know

1728
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,680
a drop in the ocean

1729
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:36,559
a bit and it's

1730
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:38,000
i'm usually quite self-confident and uh

1731
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:40,240
you know more so than a lot of my

1732
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:43,119
friends just but based on what i wear

1733
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,480
half the time will tell you

1734
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:48,240
i don't really care

1735
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:50,319
uh but one thing that surprised me was

1736
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,880
you know just just having the motivation

1737
01:01:50,319 --> 01:01:54,079
sometimes to be like

1738
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,480
should i keep going should i keep

1739
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:59,440
recording should i keep editing

1740
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:01,359
uh so it's you know again i i guess it's

1741
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,760
a personal thank you to yourself for for

1742
01:02:01,359 --> 01:02:04,799
joining me on this journey and

1743
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,559
for

1744
01:02:04,799 --> 01:02:09,359
you know inspiring and

1745
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:11,200
giving the me the motivation to say

1746
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:12,079
you know at least i care enough to be on

1747
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,760
so

1748
01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:15,359
then i keep keep on trucking so i guess

1749
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,599
what i'm getting at is

1750
01:02:15,359 --> 01:02:18,640
that having that self-confidence and the

1751
01:02:17,599 --> 01:02:21,680
thought to

1752
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:23,520
is this worthwhile that's a human a

1753
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,880
human experience and you're not the only

1754
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:27,359
one if anyone's ever listening and

1755
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,160
thinking is it worthwhile the answer is

1756
01:02:27,359 --> 01:02:29,280
well

1757
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,400
just do it

1758
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,480
and

1759
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:35,039
i'm sure it'll be great

1760
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:37,359
yeah no i i i get that and i know we you

1761
01:02:35,039 --> 01:02:39,440
know we joked earlier about um about

1762
01:02:37,359 --> 01:02:41,440
well hey maybe no one's listening

1763
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,839
and you know what if no one's listening

1764
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,440
we've still had fun and it's i think

1765
01:02:43,839 --> 01:02:46,720
it's

1766
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,440
it's one of those things isn't it you

1767
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:52,160
don't necessarily do a podcast for

1768
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,599
listen accounts or you know i've got 800

1769
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,039
people listening or a thousand people

1770
01:02:53,599 --> 01:02:57,760
listening or

1771
01:02:55,039 --> 01:02:59,839
four people listening and if it is four

1772
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:02,000
people listening um and one of them is

1773
01:02:59,839 --> 01:03:04,240
your mum or something does does that

1774
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,200
really matter and i don't think it does

1775
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,200
so

1776
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,960
i would echo that sentiment if you're

1777
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,599
out there thinking maybe i should do a

1778
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:14,079
podcast or i fancy doing a podcast but

1779
01:03:11,599 --> 01:03:16,559
you know who's who wants to listen to me

1780
01:03:14,079 --> 01:03:18,400
um even if it's just one other person

1781
01:03:16,559 --> 01:03:20,319
then then you're providing something

1782
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:22,480
that someone wants to listen to you know

1783
01:03:20,319 --> 01:03:24,079
and it's a big old world out there even

1784
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,200
even the big guys when they're getting a

1785
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:27,119
million

1786
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,799
um a million listeners

1787
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:30,400
i don't know how many critical role get

1788
01:03:28,799 --> 01:03:32,240
but let's assume they get

1789
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,480
a million listeners you know we're a

1790
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,079
planet of seven billion people even the

1791
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,520
big guys are only getting a drop in the

1792
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:40,000
ocean

1793
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:42,720
good thank you for that we've i've ended

1794
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:45,440
on a really nice wholesome comment yeah

1795
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:48,160
give it a go yep cool all right well

1796
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,839
thank you ever so much for coming on is

1797
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,880
there anything you want to

1798
01:03:49,839 --> 01:03:52,799
plug

1799
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:56,880
well i mean the only thing i i would

1800
01:03:52,799 --> 01:04:01,599
always plug um i produce dnd journals um

1801
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:03,520
i have a small website uh mike hdnd dot

1802
01:04:01,599 --> 01:04:05,680
card dot co

1803
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:08,640
um it's my pinned tweet so go and have a

1804
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:10,799
look there are bespoke journals aligned

1805
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:13,760
to each of your individual character

1806
01:04:10,799 --> 01:04:15,599
classes lots of space for all manner of

1807
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,359
bits and bobs go and have a look i

1808
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:18,640
actually think they're really cool i'm

1809
01:04:17,359 --> 01:04:19,839
just trying to convince everybody else

1810
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,440
that they are

1811
01:04:19,839 --> 01:04:22,880
well actually thank you for reminding me

1812
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:25,039
because now's a good time to tell you

1813
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:27,280
that i've got one winging its way to me

1814
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:29,200
courtesy of royal mail as we speak oh

1815
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:31,760
fabulous not a paid promotion or

1816
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:34,640
anything just for full disclosure

1817
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:36,640
amazing i did some research before uh

1818
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:39,200
obviously the podcast and saw them and

1819
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:40,799
was like hey they're cool and uh i

1820
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,640
actually bought the wizard one because

1821
01:04:40,799 --> 01:04:44,640
in the dungeons dyson dude actual play

1822
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,640
podcast that i'm in i play a wizard so i

1823
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:49,039
thought hey i'm gonna i'm gonna grab one

1824
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:51,680
for that so um yeah that's that's in in

1825
01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:55,839
no way endorsed but a legitimate

1826
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,839
interest in my part it's a bible

1827
01:04:56,079 --> 01:05:01,039
um so yeah do do check them out because

1828
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:02,640
uh they do look very neat thank you and

1829
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:05,039
thanks for having me on the show i've

1830
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,400
really enjoyed it it's good i'm glad

1831
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:08,240
it's been a pleasure and it's always

1832
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:10,240
good to have different experiences and

1833
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,599
different points of view and i've it's

1834
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,760
been a pleasure listening to kind of

1835
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:15,839
your experience of not only in the past

1836
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:17,680
but also your experience

1837
01:05:15,839 --> 01:05:20,559
now at the table and

1838
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:22,319
how you approach listening and kind of

1839
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:24,160
things you look for so yeah it's been

1840
01:05:22,319 --> 01:05:26,240
been really useful thank you

1841
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,720
thank you to all listening at home if

1842
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:31,119
you have any thoughts or comments you

1843
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,880
can find me on twitter at download

1844
01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:35,119
underscore dnd

1845
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:37,150
otherwise thank you all for listening

1846
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:42,300
and good night

1847
01:05:37,150 --> 01:05:42,300
[Music]