Mythology

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welcome thinkers to season three episode

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25. today's topic is mythology and

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as is now usual i have a quick

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announcement to make i'm probably going

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to be taking a brief holiday in between

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seasons three and four just to have a

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little bit of time for myself

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not have the pressure of editing

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always weighing over me and just a

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little bit of self-care time so

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if you don't have another episode for a

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couple of weeks don't fret we will be

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back with season four and in fact i

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already have about 10 episodes recorded

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of top quality content

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so look forward to that and i will see

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you on the other side otherwise enjoy

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the episode

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by ramji thank you

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ever so much for joining us today ramji

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can you tell us a little bit about

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yourself thanks donnelly my name is

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ramji and i am a

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dungeon master and uh general dogs body

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for a show called the fourth culture

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we are a primarily global stream that

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focuses and channel that focuses on

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telling stories from around the world

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that are really not based on the

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classical kind of um i think some people

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it's called a eurocentric myth i

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personally prefer to think of it as the

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the non-arthurian

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non-norse myths so we do uh draw a bit

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on european culture we draw quite a lot

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quite heavily on eastern european

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culture on many of those stories and

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myths as well as of course things that

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are to the uh east of the bosphorus in

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essence so stories from age of minor

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from uh you know uh ancient persia from

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the sort of central asiatic plane india

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and of course

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china japan and southeast asia and uh

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sort of the archipelago and so

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a lot of what we like to do is blend in

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their mythology we've been

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sort of streaming primarily a bunch of

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shows

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based out of singapore but

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we're having more that are joining our

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portfolio over the course of the next

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few months and

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a lot of those are um

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stories that are people speaking from

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their own cultural voices and so we have

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for example a uh a new group of folks

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from the philippines who will be

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playing a set of games that are based

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heavily on philippine mythology and the

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stories related to the islands

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that i think is probably a an

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introduction and a half back to you

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i'd say so yeah no thank you very much

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and of course that would mean that

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today's topic is

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mythology so what does that what does

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that mean to you

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in the dnd and wide ttrpg framework

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so

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it's a great question because i think

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you know when we think about the role of

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mythology and what that actually means

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it sounds ever so grand it sounds like

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we should be thinking you know oh

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mythology that's uh that's all this sort

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of stories of ancient greek warriors or

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you know um

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the first thing that comes to many

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people's mind for example when you say

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mythology is is ancient greece it's rome

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it's the clash of the titans it's

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various stories like that maybe

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it's stories like alibaba and forty

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thieves or uh the things that disney has

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brought to us in its infinite rewriting

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of ancient tales

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underlying it all i think is that it's

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something that's essentially human um

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when we look at the role of storytelling

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and how that has basically been

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a constant for as long as people have

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been able to gather in communities and

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communicate in a meaningful way

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the

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reality is is the one thing that binds

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us the one thing that is intrinsically

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human is our desire to tell stories

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these stories become myths and legends

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and stories of ancient heroes and we

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tend to

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inject our own sort of

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uh cultural moors of the time into those

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stories that's why some of them can feel

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incredibly dated that's why some of them

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can feel you know when you look at them

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and you look at the original source

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material

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they're

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kind of grim or nasty or

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or any number of things that in today's

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context make no sense

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however

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the reality i find is that myths and

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stories and legends especially because

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they

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tended to be

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propagated by folks that were moving

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from community to community whether

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that's

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the same people who'd also carry news so

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in essence like the celtic bards or

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similar or whether these were merchants

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who were traveling along

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both ancient and

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relatively modern trade routes the

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telling stories as they went whether

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that's like by campfire and all the rest

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or or just as part of the

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you know tell me what's happening else

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in the world and you know everyone likes

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to tell a good story and these stories

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therefore grow larger and most

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importantly i think the thing is they

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get cross-pollinated and so we see these

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really rather incredible things where

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stories that you think you know well and

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you

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have heard when you were perhaps growing

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up as a child as fairy tales and various

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other things actually they have their

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roots perhaps somewhere very far away or

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perhaps the same story is told in lots

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of different places but with very

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different cultural meanings cultural

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context everything else and there are i

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mean a great example is the story of

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cinderella which i think is probably one

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of those myths that exists in

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most cultures in one way or another and

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the reality of the folks that do

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focalistics which is this entire

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discipline um about understanding

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folktales and mythology and stories and

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everything else is that

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they try to map and understand how all

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these things relate and that struck me

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the first time i came across it because

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that means that there's something

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intrinsically greater about the stories

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that we tell now in the context of d d

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it's kind of interesting for me because

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the classical d d story is

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very inspired by

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wargaming and that wargaming was very

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inspired by you know in the tales

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associated with it chain moan all the

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rest back in sort of like the late the

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70s and early 80s were sort of inspired

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by those sort of 1930s 1940s uh

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adventure stories of like conan the

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barbarian and maybe later with baffert

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and the gary mouser and all these sort

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of things where

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these roguish warrior characters you

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know conan whatever and i know conan in

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our mind iconically is a uh he's arnold

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schwarzenegger but um oh yeah but yeah

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of course right and so

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and yet

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in the books there's something of that

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sort of like

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fantastical uh blend of lots of

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different stories that kind of got

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brought together into this sort of

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semi-colonialist kind of view of this

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barbarian and you know the the

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interesting thing about

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those stories and then the way they got

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brought into dnd

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is that you know obviously lord of the

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rings which you can't really avoid even

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mentioning um surprisingly you've got

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this one without mentioning all of the

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rings

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they're very much based i mean a lot of

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the rings especially and tolkien was a a

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scholar um and then an old english

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scholar and he studied beowulf right and

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so much of lord of the rings is pretty

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much directly from beowulf you know the

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um the concept of um orcs the concept of

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many of the other creatures that are

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inside uh a lot of the rings you know

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even the elves for that matter these are

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creatures that are

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actually very distinct from the other

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fairy tales comparatively right so

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however that group of kind of that

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combination of that sort of boy's own

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fantasy conan type stuff plus lord of

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the rings

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then just sort of then stuck in

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what is the standard fantasy trope which

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is this

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combination of

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a very late middle ages

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plus

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bits from the dark ages plus you know a

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bit from here and a bit from there

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said in a kind of

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fantasy northern europe that doesn't

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really exist now i mean that is

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a hundred percent amazing i grew up with

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these stories i love these stories right

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i mean it's sort of wonderful and so

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when they then turned into

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the law if you will of g and d so

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the forgotten realms law and you know we

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can talk about that if we like but

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honestly it's so jumbled and broken that

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um hot take a hot take the forgotten

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realms

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um

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but um but then

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you sort of have

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a very

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[Music]

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interesting confluence i would say right

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um what do i mean by that yeah well

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let's take some of the amazing fantasy

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authors that you know and fancy stories

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and fancy literature obviously has a

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huge influence in the beginning of dnd

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so let's talk about

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the artifact darkrazer um you know that

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is a uh

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sentient blade

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but in no way of course is just a direct

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take out of elric's weapon from the

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michael morcock series right and

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um you know this sort of melange this

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sort of like blending together of all of

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these tropes

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then gives i would say

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the stereotypical dnd game

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a

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problem in an odd way which is that

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mythology is already a big blend of a

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lot of things but it's very very

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northern european it's very

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much

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then

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simplified to take away

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the intrinsic complexity of the

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underlying work right so there's a great

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deal of complexity in all of the rings

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as we all know because there's books and

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books and books and prequels and

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prequels to prequels and sequels to

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prequels that yeah with all the rest

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right and the same is true of um of

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malcolm's word the same is true of any

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number of other things and

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in order to make it a game in order to

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not make it too complex d and d sort of

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simplifies it to

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aux bad elves good and here's the rough

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law and i think that

283
00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:32,480
it is one of those things as a dm and

284
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,920
growing up with a lot of these stories

285
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,959
and really enjoying them and really

286
00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,959
playing with these things and then

287
00:10:34,959 --> 00:10:38,800
reading all the fantasy and the science

288
00:10:36,959 --> 00:10:40,160
fiction and various other stories in

289
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,839
parallel

290
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:45,680
that as someone of you know uh

291
00:10:43,839 --> 00:10:47,680
i guess say non-european descent

292
00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:51,040
although i can tell by my accent i grew

293
00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:53,360
up in in sunny croydon so um

294
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,320
so some of you are non-european descent

295
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,480
i

296
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,519
struggled to see myself reflected in

297
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,800
that game

298
00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:00,079
and then i spoke with other people who

299
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,240
struggle to see themselves reflected in

300
00:11:00,079 --> 00:11:04,480
that game except in pastiche and i think

301
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,480
that is the the difficulty of mythology

302
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:09,200
in dnd because although it's got so much

303
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:13,839
richness in one perspective and then you

304
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:16,640
have oriental adventures or you have

305
00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:18,640
or you have these other

306
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,640
it's not even that they're terrible

307
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,800
because at the end of the day

308
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,880
it's that they're racist right and it's

309
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,760
sort of you know it's it's that like

310
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,800
they they massively simplify mythology

311
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,200
into

312
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,680
a a set of expectations with a

313
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,959
particularly western sort of western

314
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,240
european northwestern european

315
00:11:34,959 --> 00:11:38,720
perspective

316
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:41,040
and so it's like all the cool stuff it's

317
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,320
like i want katanas and ninjas and i

318
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,160
want to have some other things and then

319
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,519
inside those books by the way there's

320
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,040
other cool things there's like other

321
00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:48,079
bits of law and somebody's done some

322
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,399
research and they've gone away and

323
00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:52,639
they've read some stuff but it sort of

324
00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:54,639
misses the thing that i would say at the

325
00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:56,880
beginning which is that

326
00:11:54,639 --> 00:12:00,079
all of these mythological tropes all of

327
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:02,720
these sort of um stories actually have

328
00:12:00,079 --> 00:12:04,079
echoes and resonances across the entire

329
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,240
world so

330
00:12:04,079 --> 00:12:07,600
i'll i'll finish my ted talk with this

331
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,040
is sort of like uh

332
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,320
with this broader point which is that

333
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,160
now you've got 15 minutes left mate

334
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,680
you've got to go well i can carry on my

335
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,959
ted talk and so

336
00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,079
but

337
00:12:14,959 --> 00:12:18,639
so you take

338
00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:19,839
the chinese sort of post-buddhist

339
00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:21,680
mythology

340
00:12:19,839 --> 00:12:26,639
as in buddhism came to china

341
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:28,800
and you have um a huge overlap with um

342
00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:32,399
stories that are common in india right

343
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:34,000
and vice versa right um and so

344
00:12:32,399 --> 00:12:36,639
when i moved out i lived in singapore

345
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:39,760
when i moved to southeast asia i was

346
00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:40,959
stunned to realize not obviously i knew

347
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,480
that thing beforehand but just to

348
00:12:40,959 --> 00:12:44,560
realize then by the way there's this

349
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:47,120
whole area of the world called southeast

350
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:48,639
asia where those kind of myths also then

351
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,560
have that sort of syncretic relationship

352
00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:52,800
where basically you know as various

353
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:54,959
empires have risen and foreign kingdoms

354
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,279
have come and gone the myths have been

355
00:12:54,959 --> 00:12:59,680
left behind in the names of places in

356
00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:01,920
the names of people in all of the

357
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:04,800
stories that we tell and so i kind of

358
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,320
got obsessed by it and so we started our

359
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,360
game just to kind of say what would it

360
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,079
be like

361
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,440
to

362
00:13:08,079 --> 00:13:12,720
play in a non-eurocentric world so let's

363
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,440
consciously

364
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,519
excise the arthurian myth let's exercise

365
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,639
the kind of like the vagnerian you know

366
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:24,399
siegfried and the ring and the sort of

367
00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:28,240
the um ragnarok kind of stories you take

368
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:30,320
those out and then what's left and

369
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,399
what's left is amazing because basically

370
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,240
what's left is all of the rest of the

371
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:37,360
cultural richness of the world and you

372
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:39,040
don't lose the echoes of all of that

373
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,279
other wonderful stuff that's kind of

374
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,320
underlying it all

375
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:43,760
i mean i don't know from your

376
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,760
perspective i mean it is interesting

377
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,360
right so i don't um i don't presume to

378
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,480
know your background right tell me a

379
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,720
little bit about like what were the

380
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,720
stories that you grew up with what were

381
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,480
the kind of the myths and legends and

382
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,560
stuff that you got told or you read at

383
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,480
bedtime or whatever it is sure so i'm a

384
00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:01,440
bit of a contradiction in terms or

385
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,880
whatever the phrase is because i'm not a

386
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,760
typical

387
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,440
fantasy consumer so like my my first

388
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,720
experience with lord of the rings for

389
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,880
example was

390
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,240
in the cinema back when a ticket cost

391
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:17,199
probably five pounds not 15 pounds like

392
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:19,839
it does today i mean

393
00:14:17,199 --> 00:14:21,760
so like i i was never a huge book reader

394
00:14:19,839 --> 00:14:25,519
and in fact uh science fiction has

395
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:28,240
always been my preferred kind of fiction

396
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:31,680
so yes i was aware growing up

397
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:33,279
tangentially of king arthur and merlin

398
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,399
again through

399
00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:38,720
disney i believe uh or whatever it was

400
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:39,760
in the stone and yes absolutely yeah

401
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,920
exactly

402
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,120
so like i i will wish that i would have

403
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,040
watched that at some point and that

404
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,360
would have been you know running around

405
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,360
at the back of my head but otherwise it

406
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,959
is just your regular

407
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:54,880
90s kid pop culture

408
00:14:52,959 --> 00:14:57,440
uk south uk

409
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,720
um so like i i know of

410
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,480
and

411
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,880
hold highly terry pratchett but i've

412
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,639
never read any of that stuff for example

413
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,320
i hope

414
00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:08,560
my listeners are just falling off the

415
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,240
cliff now as i

416
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,839
as i tell them i've never listened to or

417
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,959
read any of their most favorite things

418
00:15:11,839 --> 00:15:14,160
um

419
00:15:12,959 --> 00:15:15,760
so no

420
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,440
so coming to

421
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,440
d and d

422
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,199
and let me think of the way to put this

423
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,959
because

424
00:15:21,199 --> 00:15:27,440
it ticked the boxes i would have

425
00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:30,160
expected it to tick in terms of the

426
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:32,240
theming so it was basically as you've

427
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:35,120
described like

428
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,160
all the tropes essentially which to me

429
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,240
as

430
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,000
potentially an ignorant person from from

431
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,560
who's only ever lived in europe you know

432
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,079
west europe that it was what i would

433
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,160
have expected it to be for better and

434
00:15:44,079 --> 00:15:49,519
for worse you know you know all that all

435
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:51,600
the the main boxes were ticked

436
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:52,959
but what i mean by that is like

437
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,480
it was this middle

438
00:15:52,959 --> 00:15:55,839
middle-earth middle

439
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,759
medieval

440
00:15:55,839 --> 00:16:00,079
middle middle middle just fantasy

441
00:15:57,759 --> 00:16:01,759
quote-unquote that had everything you'd

442
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:03,839
expect it to do now

443
00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:05,360
as a dm and a player

444
00:16:03,839 --> 00:16:06,959
sometimes that makes me

445
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,360
makes it very difficult to run a game

446
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:10,800
because i'm like are there bicycles in

447
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,199
this world i don't know what are the

448
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,120
ramifications if i bring in bicycles how

449
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:17,519
do people tell the time i don't know is

450
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,480
it just sundials everywhere kind of is

451
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:20,959
is

452
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,560
a pain as a dm to be like well you don't

453
00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:25,360
know what time it is i go out and find a

454
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,440
sundial okay cool that sucks

455
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,920
but i want to bring in

456
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,839
some more modern items but then that

457
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,279
obviously then starts to tear at the

458
00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:34,720
seams of

459
00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:37,839
this

460
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:40,639
weirdly crafted mishmash of

461
00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:42,800
tropes and idioms over the last

462
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:44,720
40 decades the only thing i wanted to

463
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,959
add is you were saying like

464
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,399
a lot of them and in a previous episode

465
00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:50,959
in a previous guest i had on we talked

466
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:52,560
about monsters and then the whole shtick

467
00:16:50,959 --> 00:16:55,519
of that episode was like something a

468
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:57,440
monster that you might find benign or

469
00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:58,639
you might not be familiar with his roots

470
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,240
actually has

471
00:16:58,639 --> 00:17:02,880
its roots in

472
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,160
pagan mythology from yeah a hundred

473
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,559
years ago and you're like oh i just

474
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,799
brought that in as a goofy npc

475
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:10,480
and it's like no that like you might be

476
00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:12,000
being like hella

477
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,000
insensitive and you just don't know

478
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,520
because it's got all this

479
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,120
this baggage with it so like something

480
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,039
like the mummy which is in the dungeon

481
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:21,199
masters guide is obviously

482
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:22,880
the brendan fraser classic film uh you

483
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:24,559
know there's

484
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,319
there's there's more

485
00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:27,919
in popular culture whereas there's a

486
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:29,600
whole bunch out there that have just

487
00:17:27,919 --> 00:17:32,000
been filtered through

488
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,960
so many lenses that by the time it gets

489
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,880
to this

490
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,880
mass production

491
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,440
mass-produced high production

492
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:43,120
piece of 40-pound book that i buy from

493
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:45,200
my local gaming store that it is lost

494
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:47,120
all the nuance and now just becomes the

495
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,720
goofy npc or the goofy monster that you

496
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,000
bring in to fight you're absolutely

497
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,559
right i'll give you a great example

498
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:55,360
right so the um the classical d and d

499
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:57,200
ogre right and i i did a video about

500
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:59,280
this a while ago but it's sort of the

501
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,640
the ogre is is really interesting

502
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,440
because if you look at the etymology of

503
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:06,080
it the ogre the word ogre comes from

504
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,640
like um sort of probably french there's

505
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,360
a there's a sort of french word

506
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,440
but

507
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,799
it sort of relates then back

508
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,280
to

509
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:16,720
the underlying word for dev or demon or

510
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,200
something similar related to that which

511
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,880
is really uh drives you through the sort

512
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,080
of etruscan word which is a workers

513
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,559
right and so

514
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:27,360
you know ocus is obviously also you know

515
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:29,200
the root of the word orc unsurprisingly

516
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,919
and it's very unsurprising because the

517
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,720
both words are found very clearly um in

518
00:18:31,919 --> 00:18:36,880
in uh in bales and therefore tolkien

519
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,799
picks them up right and so in but the

520
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,400
interesting thing is in in

521
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:42,960
in beowulf um

522
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,720
the ogre grendel who's like the one of

523
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,039
the three so beowulf is basically the

524
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,240
story about this dude that um you know

525
00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:51,280
he's the sort of

526
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:53,039
warrior king eventually and in essence

527
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,720
it's a lot of blah blah blah but then he

528
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:56,000
fights three people right he finds

529
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,280
grendel he fights grendel's mother and

530
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,280
then he i think he fights i can't

531
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,559
believe he finds a serpent or a dragon

532
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,640
or whatever it is but you know it's been

533
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:05,520
a while but the the reality is is that

534
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:08,240
grendel himself is this creature that

535
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,320
lives in the moors in the bogs he sort

536
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,320
of lives in the the light the sort of

537
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,320
like the underneath the box he lives in

538
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,559
the darkness between

539
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,840
the that's just beyond the realm of

540
00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:19,280
light and you have to then think to

541
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,880
yourself well it must have been yeah

542
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,200
back in those era

543
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,480
you it's not like today where yeah you

544
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,080
know we've got lights everywhere and you

545
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,480
can barely see the stars back in those

546
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,000
days lights were rare and expensive and

547
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,600
people lit lights because it was a

548
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,120
survival mechanism and it was a way of

549
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,559
signaling and there was a way of you

550
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,480
know having hearts and telling stories

551
00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:39,120
and all the rest of it but ultimately

552
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,400
it's to keep the the bad things away

553
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,240
because if you can see it humans are

554
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,840
very sight oriented and if you can see

555
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,520
it it's all right if you can't see it

556
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,520
it's oh it's behind you right it's the

557
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,160
part of every horror movie and i think

558
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:52,080
you know so grendel just being a step

559
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,240
into that darkness and being sort of

560
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,240
like this sort of creature of darkness

561
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,640
uh but it's an incredibly powerful one

562
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,320
that would eat uh eat other people and

563
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,919
so you're there going okay well here is

564
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,919
this ogre this is it's complex that has

565
00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:07,760
you know uh grendel's mother who's

566
00:20:05,919 --> 00:20:09,440
beowulf's kind of like second big fight

567
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,280
if you will um

568
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:14,000
you know there's there's relationships

569
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,840
there's other complexity there uh bro

570
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,039
grendel speaks he doesn't do the

571
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,640
classical

572
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:20,640
ogre growling and all the rest of it

573
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,559
yeah um and then

574
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,840
you know i'll give you uh to take that

575
00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:27,440
over a step a bit further the yoga in

576
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,080
the most famous ogre i would guess in

577
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,960
our folklore is one of puss in boots

578
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,799
right so in person boots the the ogre

579
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:37,600
that has the castle is this sort of

580
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:39,679
decadent devil that costs magic and has

581
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,240
parties and you know it's just a real

582
00:20:39,679 --> 00:20:43,440
rake and it's meant to be a a satirical

583
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,760
character that represents the

584
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:48,320
aristocracy right you know the yeah like

585
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,559
all of the bad things in our society

586
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:53,039
right all of the the nastiness of the

587
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:55,120
that comes with the abuse of power by

588
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:57,600
those um who

589
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:59,120
aren't responsible like you know so

590
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,960
maybe your ogres called boris i don't

591
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:02,960
know but the point is if we're going

592
00:21:02,970 --> 00:21:07,679
[Laughter]

593
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,159
but nevertheless um so so

594
00:21:07,679 --> 00:21:12,720
it's only in d and d honestly and it's

595
00:21:10,159 --> 00:21:15,679
you know uh it's only in dnd really that

596
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,520
the ogre is this dumb sort of like and

597
00:21:15,679 --> 00:21:19,520
warcraft and similar kind of derivatives

598
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,240
things so there's this dumb kind of you

599
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,120
know

600
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,720
butt-scratching horrible creature i mean

601
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:27,200
it's they're always a horrible creature

602
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:30,880
they're there but they represent

603
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,880
a lot of humanity's fears about gluttony

604
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,360
a lot of humanity's fears about misuse

605
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:38,080
of power of the of the tyranny of

606
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:39,520
strength alone right and

607
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,600
that's where i think that mythological

608
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,120
context is super important because a

609
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,679
little bit of work to scratch under the

610
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:47,360
surface and it gives you so much more

611
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:48,320
depth as a dm

612
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:50,080
to

613
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,840
play with this idea a little bit because

614
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,520
the funny thing is this idea is in the

615
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,840
back of everyone's head everyone's heard

616
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,600
of custom boots right maybe maybe people

617
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,280
haven't necessarily heard of beowulf or

618
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,960
haven't necessarily got into it and you

619
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,000
know they're not back that that's not

620
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,679
floating in their boat but everyone's

621
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,280
had a puss in boots you know everyone's

622
00:22:03,679 --> 00:22:07,840
had a shrek everyone said like yeah all

623
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,159
of these sort of different things and so

624
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:13,440
it's a way of um

625
00:22:10,159 --> 00:22:16,159
accessing parts of people's unconscious

626
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:19,039
right because we're all programmed with

627
00:22:16,159 --> 00:22:21,039
stories like from when before we were

628
00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:22,640
before we can remember people were

629
00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:25,679
telling us stories people were telling

630
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,120
us you're reading us with c-spot run

631
00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:28,559
okay that's great but you know they're

632
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,640
reading us other stories too and we're

633
00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:32,080
gonna yeah

634
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,440
parties or whatever it is or you know

635
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,880
when you're a kid and people tell

636
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,159
stories or you know people when you go

637
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,840
to bed they'll tell you stories whatever

638
00:22:36,159 --> 00:22:40,480
it is you're watching tv you're seeing

639
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,400
repeats star wars is a mythological

640
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,240
story right it's a mythological soap

641
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,320
opera yeah

642
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,600
uh uh george lucas is quite famous for

643
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,440
uh for

644
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:53,120
referring to joseph campbell who is a

645
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:55,280
very famous vocalist who um is just

646
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:58,000
incredible actually and it's it's

647
00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:01,760
somebody that i uh probably

648
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:05,360
helped me understand just how

649
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,320
amazing and interconnected different

650
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,799
um

651
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:11,039
the human experience it genuinely is

652
00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:13,760
even by people that have no reason to

653
00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:15,600
know each other have no reason to even

654
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,200
like there's no trait right but the

655
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,440
reality is some of these stories are

656
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,960
true because again you know everyone's

657
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,120
afraid of the darkness because the

658
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,440
darkness has things that eat people

659
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:27,440
right you know everybody seeks you know

660
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,720
comfort and shelter right and so there's

661
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,720
all these things

662
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,679
and and community and so exclusion from

663
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,360
community is a huge trope in almost you

664
00:23:33,679 --> 00:23:36,640
know in so many of these stories people

665
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,880
are run away from community or they're

666
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,200
taken away from it or they're exiled or

667
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,120
otherwise yes um and a little bit of

668
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,120
just i guess

669
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:47,760
understanding and playing with these

670
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:50,559
concepts i think adds a richness to

671
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,720
certainly my game um that i'm very glad

672
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:56,240
to have come across

673
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,760
yes yeah no absolutely it's

674
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,279
it's it they don't they don't tell you

675
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,520
that in the dungeon masters guide i

676
00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:04,480
don't tell you that yeah

677
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,360
i've had other ideas

678
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,279
i think there are some additional

679
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:09,279
reading material but not to the extent

680
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:11,200
that we are you know that we're going on

681
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:13,279
today and that's why people listen to

682
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,060
your podcast

683
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:16,880
oh thanks

684
00:24:14,060 --> 00:24:18,720
[Laughter]

685
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,400
yeah so i mean you've

686
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,480
done a far better job than i would have

687
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,159
been able to do to articulate this this

688
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,520
kind of stuff but i did have

689
00:24:24,159 --> 00:24:27,440
i did have one

690
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,640
kind of different vector to take on in

691
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,960
today's topic and in your games and your

692
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,440
campaigns do you have any

693
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,480
like in in-game in universe internal

694
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,640
myths and and mythology and yeah folk

695
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,320
tales and all that yes

696
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,400
what a wonderful question so

697
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,400
we do the thing that i before i started

698
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,320
this most recent game i was watching

699
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,159
matt colville series on you know how to

700
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,960
be dm and this was a wonderful thing red

701
00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:55,279
so in one of those games he mentions a

702
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,400
game called microscope microscope by ben

703
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:58,880
robbins

704
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,440
and i thought well one of the things i

705
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,480
wanted to bring to our game because we

706
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,880
were just the first one we were

707
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,880
streaming and what i wanted to do was

708
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:10,080
have it so that um

709
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:12,559
the players because we're on video you

710
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,400
know you're playing a game now if i said

711
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:16,880
to you

712
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,799
the marry celeste or the titanic like

713
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,760
you know you you look over the side of

714
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:23,279
the ship and the fog clears a little bit

715
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,120
and you see there's some writing you're

716
00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:27,200
looking at upside down strangely enough

717
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,600
as the ship lists off in one particular

718
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,840
direction buffed by the waves you take a

719
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,520
moment you you make your perception

720
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,880
check or you don't or whatever it is and

721
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,799
you see the words hms titanic on the

722
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,679
side right like

723
00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:43,760
on screen in your brain everything is

724
00:25:41,679 --> 00:25:45,600
going i know about the titanic i know

725
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,240
lots about the titanic my brain has just

726
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,520
been primed your memory is in loads of

727
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,120
stuff in it and you're just like you're

728
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,200
there you're in the moment and you're

729
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,799
able to talk about it and so i wanted

730
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,919
that experience because you know we all

731
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:57,520
got together we played a few games

732
00:25:55,919 --> 00:25:59,360
beforehand and we were like great you

733
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,960
know let's let's um let's do this stream

734
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:03,440
it'll be fun right and then i realized

735
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,279
that we're playing in a homebrew world

736
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,919
and playing the homebrew world

737
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:10,720
i you would lose that we would end up

738
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:12,559
doing a lot of something i don't really

739
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,640
like which is that sort of it's an

740
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:17,440
explanatory narrative right where you

741
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,600
kind of like try and shove loads of law

742
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,520
into a moment where like a random npc

743
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,080
crops up and goes oh yes will you

744
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,520
remember buldar the lord of the sea no

745
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,799
one likes the exposition machine yeah

746
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,240
exactly no one loves exhibition right

747
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:29,760
you know and so

748
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,520
and so as a result

749
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,760
what we did instead was we got together

750
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,120
and played microscope um i've got to dig

751
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,320
those videos out at some point and

752
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,320
actually put them on our stream because

753
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,600
they're i mean that that terrible

754
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,480
quality because i don't think we'd learn

755
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,159
how to

756
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,720
edit audio and video back then yeah it's

757
00:26:42,159 --> 00:26:45,919
a couple years back but but barring that

758
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,039
it was really interesting because what

759
00:26:45,919 --> 00:26:50,880
we did together was collaboratively play

760
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:52,480
a game where we built the mythology of

761
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,200
the world so

762
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,039
we we started off with you know uh the

763
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,799
way that um it's been a couple years so

764
00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:00,799
excuse me and i'm sorry ben for if i get

765
00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:03,360
this this wrong uh that's the ben

766
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:04,799
robbins but um the way the game works is

767
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,960
that you

768
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:09,039
there's no gm there's no orchestrator

769
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,279
each person takes a turn

770
00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:13,200
and um when everybody's taking a turn

771
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:15,120
that's the end of the round and that you

772
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,440
have three or four rounds and when

773
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:19,279
somebody takes a turn uh when somebody

774
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,799
begins around someone gets to define

775
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:22,720
what's happening they define what their

776
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:24,480
epoch is they define like oh well you

777
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,559
know and so you the the the game is

778
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,720
bookended by you could start it at the

779
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:31,360
dawn of all time and you could say the

780
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,880
other book end is the modern era right

781
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:35,679
and then somebody says somebody

782
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,360
basically um says something like okay

783
00:27:35,679 --> 00:27:38,640
cool well i'm gonna do a scene

784
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:41,200
where we

785
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,480
uh are on top of a general's tent

786
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,200
looking in and you can see that there

787
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,799
are four people uh around a map and then

788
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,399
each person is playing microscope plays

789
00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:50,960
one of those people and they just make

790
00:27:48,399 --> 00:27:53,039
up that person they make up that entire

791
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,120
backstory for that person and then they

792
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:56,399
play that scene out right and as a

793
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:58,640
result

794
00:27:56,399 --> 00:28:01,120
what that did was that

795
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:04,720
populated and created

796
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:07,440
the the the age of myth as it were in my

797
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,240
game right not entirely i didn't include

798
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,080
everything but one of the the deities

799
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,440
was called the bread god and we were

800
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,480
like no we're not including the bread

801
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,320
god but you know but but but never was

802
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,480
very hungry at that moment but

803
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,440
but the reality is is that like a lot of

804
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,640
those characters right um uh sadar the

805
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:29,360
blood queen uh pithia various other

806
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,600
people like that uh were made up by the

807
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:34,000
players in the game and

808
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,399
their backstory and their actions you

809
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,600
know would be played out and those

810
00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:42,480
actions like that in in one case uh

811
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,760
pythia who was um you know sort of an

812
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,120
archmage

813
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:49,279
basically uh attempted to ascend and by

814
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,279
doing so she pulled a thousand souls

815
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:53,760
that she'd sacrificed right and so she's

816
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:54,960
all set up this whole thing right and so

817
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,520
um

818
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,440
however it went wrong and all that power

819
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,000
kind of like you know had nowhere to go

820
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,520
and so instead it blew up a tower right

821
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,000
loads of people died usual kind of your

822
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:09,440
minor capitalism stuff right but what

823
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:11,600
was nice was when the players looked at

824
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,880
the map i then drew

825
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:17,360
they saw the ruins of pythius tower

826
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,440
and they were like i know that i was

827
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:22,320
there i recognized it and so when when i

828
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,120
had an npc just mention it in passing

829
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,279
right

830
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,919
they were like huh or i had another one

831
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:29,760
that where one of the players um uh

832
00:29:27,919 --> 00:29:31,919
created this character called manassas

833
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,480
who had fallen out with his sister who

834
00:29:31,919 --> 00:29:36,399
was also these again age of myths so

835
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,159
very powerful beings

836
00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:41,039
and

837
00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:42,159
they then had this war this sort of you

838
00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:43,919
know huge

839
00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:45,760
spell battle and everything else then at

840
00:29:43,919 --> 00:29:47,520
the end of it all another mountain range

841
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,279
destroyed because you know if you can't

842
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,960
destroy a mountain range of dm what good

843
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:52,799
are you right

844
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,120
so what then happened was

845
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:57,440
in one of the games

846
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,679
in one of our sessions a sailor just

847
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,360
swore he was just like you know by

848
00:29:59,679 --> 00:30:03,440
nasa's left testicle or something like

849
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,840
that right and what i loved about that

850
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,760
was all of the players like on screen on

851
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,600
camera they all blinked recognition

852
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,039
right and i i that was the thing i was

853
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,799
hoping for from the beginning and it was

854
00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:14,080
amazing and so i i thoroughly recommend

855
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,279
i think it's a wonderful way of doing it

856
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,600
i'm sure there are hundreds of other

857
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:20,240
ways of doing it as well but the concept

858
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,320
of of building your mythology

859
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,480
collaboratively within the game and not

860
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,919
just pulling it in from

861
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,200
external thoughts we talked a lot about

862
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:28,480
you know isn't it amazing we've got all

863
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,320
these cultural sources that you can pull

864
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,559
in and we do right and we do that

865
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,480
extensively but then to also have your

866
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:37,039
players and other people around you

867
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,960
co-create that mythos because

868
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:40,960
you know they're playing a character but

869
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,480
then they're still a person and that

870
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,240
person was actually the person that was

871
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,960
involved in that scene and then yeah

872
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,880
that it creates a complexity and

873
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,840
an experience that i think is amazing

874
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,640
how about you have you ever done

875
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:55,039
anything like that uh well no i know i

876
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:58,080
sound lame uh i'm sorry let's try that

877
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:58,080
again let's try that again

878
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,320
the ship sale the titanic's already

879
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,320
something

880
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:06,880
no no no not at all like again this is

881
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,159
an i was saying on a recent show that i

882
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,159
was on i was like

883
00:31:08,159 --> 00:31:10,960
playing d d

884
00:31:10,159 --> 00:31:13,519
is

885
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,120
hard or let me say like the skill

886
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:17,120
barrier that is like all over the shop

887
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,960
and on the face of it it's

888
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,640
it is very easy you pick up some dice

889
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,919
people sit around the table you play

890
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,919
it's not very easy at all it's an

891
00:31:21,919 --> 00:31:25,760
incredibly accessible game anyone tells

892
00:31:23,919 --> 00:31:27,519
you otherwise is uh

893
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,000
like me it's like

894
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:31,760
i i i i put my my wife's a bit like

895
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,120
yours not a bit like you in some ways

896
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,320
and that she's probably like your

897
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,080
teenage years and that she'd never

898
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,080
really read any fantasy and all the rest

899
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,600
of it and nobody in the sci-fi either

900
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,159
and so we tried to get this playlist and

901
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:44,159
she was it just took a lot of effort

902
00:31:42,159 --> 00:31:45,679
just to get uh it's not not not because

903
00:31:44,159 --> 00:31:47,600
she's thick i mean she's proper smart

904
00:31:45,679 --> 00:31:50,240
it's more a case of like you know

905
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,919
it's just if you've not engaged with it

906
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,799
and you're presented with a character

907
00:31:51,919 --> 00:31:57,360
sheet let alone dnd beyond right it's

908
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:59,200
just it's a lot of hard work it is and

909
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,720
it means it means very little to you as

910
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,760
well like you know maybe somebody

911
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,360
doesn't know the difference between a

912
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,559
long bow and a short bow which i would

913
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,159
forgive them for not knowing the

914
00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:07,760
difference despite that being a

915
00:32:06,159 --> 00:32:09,600
mechanical and b a huge flavor

916
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,679
difference as well so now the reason i'm

917
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,760
saying it that it's hard is because that

918
00:32:11,679 --> 00:32:15,440
what you've suggested is like a really

919
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,559
fantastic idea and there are ways to

920
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,840
emulate that in 5e i'm leveraging that

921
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:21,360
because that's where my experience lies

922
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,120
and you can have a session

923
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,399
minus five minus four minus three minus

924
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,000
two minus one in the zero and then hit

925
00:32:24,399 --> 00:32:27,440
the start of the campaign where you set

926
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,399
up all of those

927
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,279
things

928
00:32:28,399 --> 00:32:33,360
but when i started my primary campaign

929
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:35,760
only two players have played before

930
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,159
one of which has you know a bit bit more

931
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,919
of my seniors he's got a lot of

932
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:41,840
fantasy experience and a couple of guys

933
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:43,679
didn't have any in they're more like i

934
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,559
play call of duty okay

935
00:32:43,679 --> 00:32:45,279
right

936
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:47,039
so

937
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,799
it's already as we just discussed hard

938
00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:50,399
to hit the ground running

939
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:53,519
at session one let alone we're going to

940
00:32:50,399 --> 00:32:55,360
do some mythos of the world and then a

941
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:56,799
oh yeah will they remember will they

942
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,960
care don't know yet don't know the type

943
00:32:56,799 --> 00:33:01,440
of players they are

944
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:04,000
but i mean honestly it's the the worst

945
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,399
option and you know it's not not to not

946
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,880
to slam dms to do this i'm just not one

947
00:33:06,399 --> 00:33:11,039
of them which is the ones that hand a

948
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,039
ring binder to all their players and say

949
00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:14,960
please do your homework and read 400

950
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:16,960
pages of of my world setting and

951
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,720
mythology it's a temptation for all of

952
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,080
us but yeah

953
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,360
there's a middle ground which i like to

954
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:25,440
think i've hit in that i did it a after

955
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,600
we'd started maybe even good maybe for

956
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,600
bad but more as a okay the players

957
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,720
actually want something let me pull my

958
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,799
finger out and actually make something

959
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,960
for them and it was a page of

960
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:37,120
the real heavy hitters like

961
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,279
what is magic in this world like yeah

962
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:42,240
are gonna run scared or are they gonna

963
00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:44,399
cheer and and cry um what are the main

964
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,440
few days that you can leverage should

965
00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:47,440
you need to

966
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:50,399
which reminds me i wanted to loot back

967
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,480
rounds that how forgotten realms and d

968
00:33:50,399 --> 00:33:53,360
and d quote-unquote d is a bit of a mess

969
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,120
and

970
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,919
between

971
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,159
the crutch that is beyond versus having

972
00:33:57,919 --> 00:34:01,279
books of earlier editions and published

973
00:34:00,159 --> 00:34:03,519
material

974
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:06,080
combine that with people just googling

975
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:08,960
things there being very very many

976
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,000
unofficial fan wikis that have got again

977
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,359
a whole

978
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,359
milieu of

979
00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:15,200
homebrew things aside

980
00:34:13,359 --> 00:34:16,720
main things but that published thing was

981
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,520
from 30 years ago

982
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:19,520
so

983
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,000
when my players one of them had to

984
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,839
reroll a new character unfortunately and

985
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,720
he's made a paladin and he's trying to

986
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:26,399
find

987
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:28,800
some way some some higher power that he

988
00:34:26,399 --> 00:34:29,919
can subscribe his oath to

989
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,040
and he's oh i've been thinking about

990
00:34:29,919 --> 00:34:32,720
this dear e

991
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,639
all right dude i've never heard of that

992
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:37,040
person before in my life

993
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:38,720
like where's that come from i found it

994
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,720
on this random

995
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:42,800
fan wiki page

996
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:44,399
let me take a look and let me see how

997
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,119
introducing this

998
00:34:44,399 --> 00:34:49,440
piece of now canon potentially myth in

999
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:51,119
my world is going to impact the wider

1000
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,560
world because where there wasn't

1001
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:54,399
churches to this person now there

1002
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,839
probably will be and

1003
00:34:54,399 --> 00:34:57,599
that was

1004
00:34:55,839 --> 00:34:58,480
you know i've only provided them six or

1005
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:00,079
seven

1006
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,680
um but of course you know player

1007
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:03,920
creativity is

1008
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,480
at the beast unto itself and well this

1009
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,320
is this is where um at least to my mind

1010
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,680
anyway this is where mythology kind of

1011
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,400
comes to the rescue again a little bit

1012
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:15,119
right because i'll give you a

1013
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:19,040
an example of it so the god of the sun

1014
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:22,880
apollo the um you know mithras

1015
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:25,520
um you know various other uh deity surya

1016
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,720
in indian mythology you know they all

1017
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:31,599
are basically the same you know deity

1018
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:33,280
who's spread um you know backwards and

1019
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:34,880
forwards and kind of syncretically

1020
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,560
through the persian empire and through

1021
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,560
greece and through rome and everything

1022
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,240
else and the cultivators even pushed its

1023
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,000
way up into you know in fact actually if

1024
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,359
you look at it the the church of bistros

1025
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,880
is currently in

1026
00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:46,880
somewhere in london and sort of it's a

1027
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,000
ruined building near um near the back of

1028
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,400
um

1029
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,040
in the city of london in the old city

1030
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,920
and uh you know a part of the freemasons

1031
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,839
and all this sort of stuff right and so

1032
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,119
the thing that's nice and people do that

1033
00:35:57,839 --> 00:36:00,960
kind of stuff more well because they do

1034
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:02,640
it all the time is that it's just

1035
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,680
another aspect it's just another avatar

1036
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,119
it's another

1037
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,200
way that people

1038
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:09,839
you know rather like the real world it's

1039
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,800
another way that people venerate the sun

1040
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:12,480
and so

1041
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,560
you know you can just kind of like go

1042
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,320
yeah cool that's that's what that god's

1043
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,480
called over there you know and it's sort

1044
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,920
of it's it's blatant cheating right but

1045
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,680
it also allows you

1046
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,079
it also then allows to create some of

1047
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,440
the the sort of story drift that we see

1048
00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:27,200
in the real world because again i

1049
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,800
mentioned cinderella earlier the

1050
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,400
cinderella that we're used to is not the

1051
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,920
same as the germanic cinderella it's not

1052
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,839
the same as the chinese indians not seen

1053
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,680
as the russian cinderella but the story

1054
00:36:33,839 --> 00:36:36,880
is roughly the same right and so you can

1055
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,240
do the same thing with the deities you

1056
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,640
can do the same thing with your heroes

1057
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:43,440
right so oh you call him fred the

1058
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:46,560
destroyer we refer to him as you know

1059
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,599
enoch the the merciful right yeah it's

1060
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,760
all yeah

1061
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:51,760
yeah a matter of perspective sometimes

1062
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,850
absolutely yeah exactly right yeah

1063
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,159
absolutely

1064
00:36:52,850 --> 00:36:56,159
[Music]

1065
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:04,400
[Music]

1066
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,440
now if you had a large enough world to

1067
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,760
support

1068
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,520
that transmission of ideas

1069
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,599
that i don't because i'm an idiot and

1070
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,359
can't do geography uh then

1071
00:37:11,599 --> 00:37:15,119
that might work but my my islands are

1072
00:37:13,359 --> 00:37:16,880
well well too small and too close

1073
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:18,320
together there's literally like

1074
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,400
how has that changed so much i can

1075
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,800
literally see it's like you know

1076
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,520
england to france which i guess there

1077
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,359
would be some but still it's it's yeah i

1078
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,720
i envy you having the common sense of

1079
00:37:27,359 --> 00:37:33,200
having a small place uh um i i i decided

1080
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:35,040
mine was i i looked up to see well okay

1081
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,560
well how big how big could you be if

1082
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,079
you're in the golden log zone and before

1083
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,839
you fell apart it's a planet where

1084
00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:41,040
you're gonna be that big and so it's

1085
00:37:39,839 --> 00:37:44,000
huge

1086
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,119
yeah i don't see i i got i got as far as

1087
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,119
the planet you're on is in the

1088
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:49,839
goldilocks zone and then

1089
00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:51,920
in research boom stop close that book

1090
00:37:49,839 --> 00:37:54,000
back to the library you go we're done

1091
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,000
and

1092
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,160
i did not do like

1093
00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:00,320
baby's first map

1094
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,400
well let me let me have fun mess around

1095
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,240
and uh yeah needless to say the

1096
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,280
distances are all screwy and they're

1097
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:06,240
standing there luckily i don't know but

1098
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,160
that's all right you know you know it's

1099
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:10,160
funny uh so one of the things i like

1100
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,920
about map making in general and that is

1101
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,440
just sort of like we're moving away from

1102
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,480
this mythology one thing i like about

1103
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,160
map baking generals is maps are a story

1104
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,599
and for the longest time were stories

1105
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,520
right because

1106
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:24,079
people had no like

1107
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:27,200
longitude hadn't been invented right and

1108
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:29,359
so you know people had no real way of

1109
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,839
measuring the earth and had no real way

1110
00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:33,040
of doing these things to scale so maps

1111
00:38:31,839 --> 00:38:35,200
really were

1112
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,240
you know uh you hear hear there be

1113
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,240
monsters right yes

1114
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,839
very very approximate kind of

1115
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,760
representations of things unless it was

1116
00:38:41,839 --> 00:38:45,520
somewhere that was very very populated

1117
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,359
and lots of people had spent time doing

1118
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,280
math but even then like you know the

1119
00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:51,200
royal cartography society sort of like

1120
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,760
publishes these maps and that

1121
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,000
that artifacts for no better word right

1122
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,520
you know especially pre-printing press

1123
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,599
maps you know if you think about

1124
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:02,079
everywhere back in those days right you

1125
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,680
know somebody has drawn this map and

1126
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:05,920
you've gone through great trouble to do

1127
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,400
it well the chances of it being accurate

1128
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,720
approximately zero okay

1129
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,920
yeah yes it's really interesting to see

1130
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,440
those

1131
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,119
when people travel they like traveled

1132
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,560
around europe and it's their interpret

1133
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:18,400
like just from

1134
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,359
that felt like a thousand kilometers

1135
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,480
that is

1136
00:39:19,359 --> 00:39:22,560
in my head a different obviously a

1137
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,040
different metric at that time but like

1138
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,280
broadly this is this area of the country

1139
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,800
that i moved in and then you wouldn't

1140
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,119
literally unrecognizable you would never

1141
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,160
be able to place that to like our modern

1142
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:35,359
day understanding uh of was it matt murr

1143
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,800
what's the weighing for the way we

1144
00:39:35,359 --> 00:39:37,680
currently use like a map and an atlas

1145
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,520
mercury

1146
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,680
the most common ones locate a projection

1147
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,839
but um i'm so tough that i got that

1148
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,839
right

1149
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,839
and it wasn't some other weird way of

1150
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,359
measuring numbers or something that has

1151
00:39:47,839 --> 00:39:51,520
got screwed up in my head but yeah the

1152
00:39:49,359 --> 00:39:53,040
mercator projection like you never

1153
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,359
unrecognizable if you put the two side

1154
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,040
by side it's super interesting to be and

1155
00:39:55,359 --> 00:39:59,280
they're trying to you know imagine being

1156
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,800
in that world and trying to plan trade

1157
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,000
routes or something and you're like yeah

1158
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,960
it's amazing hang on a minute there

1159
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,920
should be

1160
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,240
this says there should be like a

1161
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,119
mountain range here and it's the sea

1162
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:09,200
here

1163
00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:11,280
well which is what i mean obviously

1164
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,400
look you look back at the sort of um

1165
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,079
uh

1166
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,440
ancient sailors and all the rest who

1167
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:17,760
made their way like you know the ancient

1168
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,280
chinese or even sort of uh the

1169
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,720
polynesians or whatever made their way

1170
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,720
across the pacific or they made their

1171
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,079
way they navigated their way so around

1172
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,119
the horn of africa various things like

1173
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:27,839
that

1174
00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:29,280
it's incredible right oh yes you can hug

1175
00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:30,800
the coast of the land and keep it on

1176
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,640
your right and then hope that's gonna

1177
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,520
work out for you but you're kind of

1178
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,200
limited at that point right um

1179
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,960
the concept of obviously people

1180
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,960
navigated by the stars that was one of

1181
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,319
the primary ways of doing it and so you

1182
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,480
know that kind of helped you because the

1183
00:40:42,319 --> 00:40:47,040
stars are that that that is a much

1184
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,040
flatter map in the night sky obviously

1185
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,880
so it's much more available to presume

1186
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,599
you have weather that allows you to do

1187
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,119
that but yeah i think um

1188
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:56,880
maps are

1189
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:59,839
as much

1190
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,720
a way of telling a story

1191
00:40:59,839 --> 00:41:03,200
as

1192
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:04,640
words are and i think that's one of them

1193
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,560
come back to all the rings that's why

1194
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,400
you know there are maps in all the rings

1195
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,599
and tolkien specifically

1196
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,720
was very

1197
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:13,200
careful

1198
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:15,280
to make sure like he used the maps to

1199
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,480
make sure that at any particular time in

1200
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,640
the story

1201
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,280
he knew where all the characters were so

1202
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,599
if frodo is supposed to be here then you

1203
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,520
know aragorn is supposed to be there and

1204
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:28,960
you know uh sarah man is supposed to be

1205
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,040
here and it's it's just a um

1206
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:34,319
a way of

1207
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:36,240
creating a physical relationship between

1208
00:41:34,319 --> 00:41:38,640
the story characters and so it's a

1209
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:41,680
representation in time as well as in it

1210
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:44,800
it's it's just mind-blowing yeah yeah i

1211
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:46,480
i if i was to go back now i would much

1212
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,359
much much prefer

1213
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,720
i know

1214
00:41:47,359 --> 00:41:50,400
i'll tell you why in a second i'd much

1215
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:52,400
prefer to do the map

1216
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,240
uh as if it would be one that they found

1217
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,599
in game so it would be like you know cpf

1218
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:56,480
filtered and it would be a bit rough

1219
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:58,400
around the edges and there'd just be

1220
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,240
more than landmark there's no writing on

1221
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,000
it maybe because it's just like there's

1222
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,680
a big thing that i saw in the distance

1223
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,040
didn't go near it whereas the weird

1224
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,079
middle ground that i did now because

1225
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,160
it's kind of half bird's eye view half

1226
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:12,000
atlas style half

1227
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,760
what they would find in the game

1228
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,079
i realized that's three halves

1229
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,520
but uh if only doing it that style for

1230
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:19,119
the reason is because

1231
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,880
you can just say well

1232
00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:23,280
the person who wrote the map made a

1233
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,560
mistake if indeed you need to do some dm

1234
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,599
fudging at some point you could be like

1235
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,960
oh well they just didn't they just

1236
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:29,040
didn't go that way so they didn't see

1237
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,040
that thing there like get over it

1238
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,520
i mean it's real for us because we live

1239
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,599
in an era of google maps right yeah but

1240
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,160
you know if you if you uh uh grew up

1241
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:39,680
before google maps you uh you you had

1242
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,960
this thing in your car if you're if you

1243
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,079
grew up in the uk anyway called the

1244
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,200
eight zed

1245
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:47,520
right and the the hz is basically a map

1246
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,960
book with an index at the back and so

1247
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,319
you had to learn how to read maps you

1248
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,319
turn it upside down you get which way

1249
00:42:50,319 --> 00:42:54,160
are we going and basically arguments in

1250
00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:56,800
the car of like oh wait hang on no you

1251
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:59,040
turn left oh back three things ago and

1252
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:02,319
all the rest and so you know we even

1253
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,599
that is inconceivable the concept of in

1254
00:43:02,319 --> 00:43:05,680
in this is where it becomes interesting

1255
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:07,920
so you think about it yeah like a

1256
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:10,160
medieval city or if not if not a

1257
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:13,040
medieval city wherever your dnd setting

1258
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,400
is your city right how is there a map of

1259
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,000
your city

1260
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,240
how do people know to get around if they

1261
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,240
if they're not from the city

1262
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:22,079
like even today if you were to travel

1263
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:25,680
somewhere i mean my first trip i was

1264
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:27,040
very lucky my first trip to tokyo was in

1265
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,119
i must have been

1266
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:32,480
23 maybe younger than maybe

1267
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:33,920
99 whatever right um and

1268
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,839
it's a bit like there's that movie lost

1269
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,599
in translation right which is it does

1270
00:43:35,839 --> 00:43:39,760
manage to capture

1271
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:41,280
just how

1272
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,440
different

1273
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:46,240
showing up in tokyo and

1274
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:49,200
seeing the only things in english are

1275
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:51,040
brand signs yeah sony

1276
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,520
you know uh phillips

1277
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,920
whatever it is right and everything else

1278
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:58,640
is in a language that's foreign to you

1279
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,640
and the street signs uh certainly for me

1280
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,800
anyway uh not being a native japanese

1281
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,480
speaker in any sense on the manner um

1282
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,640
and so um

1283
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,800
that sense of

1284
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,800
being lost right that sense of being

1285
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,400
unable to know where i was going both

1286
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,920
was very freeing because then i couldn't

1287
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,680
really go the wrong way because like

1288
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,800
yeah and also japan is incredibly safe

1289
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,560
so i wasn't really worried about

1290
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,119
anything but also

1291
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,960
but also was was fascinating because it

1292
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:25,040
got me thinking about

1293
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,599
well if i was in if i showed up in some

1294
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,800
random medieval city and i couldn't read

1295
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:31,200
the map

1296
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,800
that would do you just walk around lots

1297
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,200
let's walk around just trying to find

1298
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,720
somewhere and i remember once there was

1299
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,400
i was uh i had a pair of glasses on at

1300
00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:39,920
the time and the screw came out the

1301
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,200
glasses right and sorry for this very

1302
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,800
boring story everybody that's now

1303
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,960
switching off but you know speaking

1304
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,119
about the glasses and i literally was

1305
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,000
like the simplest thing in the world you

1306
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:49,599
get it

1307
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,119
you you're an optician you go to the

1308
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:52,400
department store someone finds you in

1309
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:53,599
those tiny little among your screws and

1310
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,079
there's tiny little like you know

1311
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:57,680
unnecessarily small screwdrivers right

1312
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:58,800
okay very very straightforward thing to

1313
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,200
do

1314
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,560
in anywhere else that you speak english

1315
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,040
even if you spoke spanish or french

1316
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:08,960
whatever i'd be able to muddle along uh

1317
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:11,040
in in in japan i this very nice passerby

1318
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:13,040
stops and it was like ask me in japanese

1319
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,119
like yeah i presume something along the

1320
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,880
lines of you know are you lost do you

1321
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:18,480
need help because yeah i'm rather

1322
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,599
distressed at my glasses

1323
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,560
and i realized i had no idea what

1324
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:22,319
they're saying but i presume they're

1325
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,480
being quite nice still smiling and then

1326
00:45:22,319 --> 00:45:26,240
so i ended up phantomizing like you know

1327
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:29,119
like some sort of like street clown of

1328
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:31,760
like how my glasses were broken and yeah

1329
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:33,839
you know screw and like the yeah all

1330
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,680
this kind of people who are listening on

1331
00:45:33,839 --> 00:45:37,119
the podcast and not able to watch it the

1332
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,599
red ball is behind the blue ball but i'm

1333
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:40,640
like i'm i'm gesturing sort of like you

1334
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:41,680
know

1335
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,359
um

1336
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,400
to support analogies watching me do this

1337
00:45:43,359 --> 00:45:47,760
going and that's not going to work on

1338
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:49,440
the podcast but uh but um uh

1339
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,040
but so i'm like

1340
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,839
sort of doing all this kind of random

1341
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,440
mime until they finally go oh great and

1342
00:45:53,839 --> 00:45:56,880
then i realized how the hell are they

1343
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,440
gonna give me directions

1344
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,800
yes and so they were very very lovely

1345
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,560
and they actually walked me to a

1346
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,920
department store basically no problem

1347
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,480
which is really lovely i mean everyone's

1348
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,640
fancy place but uh but but i but it did

1349
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,560
get me thinking in the back of my head

1350
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,319
like if you showed up in the medieval

1351
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,520
town of like fifty thousand people or a

1352
00:46:12,319 --> 00:46:17,599
hundred thousand people and you didn't

1353
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,960
speak let's say let's say you show up in

1354
00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:23,280
an orcish city right and you are

1355
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,640
you know you just speak common

1356
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,720
the [ __ ] do you do

1357
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,240
yeah right i mean like yeah you you

1358
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:30,960
can't read the maps you can't

1359
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:32,240
communicate with anybody and you know

1360
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,319
it's like you

1361
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:37,040
we all kind of gloss over this stuff as

1362
00:46:34,319 --> 00:46:40,160
dms because it's hard right yes exactly

1363
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,359
so it's also genuine it's also authentic

1364
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,680
right and so

1365
00:46:41,359 --> 00:46:45,200
yeah i think there's a uh yeah we've

1366
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,119
we've sort of

1367
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,599
wondered merry way on this conversation

1368
00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:53,119
but i but i i you've been to japan did

1369
00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:54,880
you have a similar experience i think

1370
00:46:53,119 --> 00:46:56,800
i got an anecdote about seoul when we

1371
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,240
went to south korea but for japan the

1372
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,599
concerns have again they've been

1373
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:00,880
fortunate enough to be

1374
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:03,200
i think we were quite lucky in that

1375
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,240
obviously tokyo central tokyo is

1376
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,440
in terms of

1377
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:10,079
the like metro and stuff

1378
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:12,160
at least have it in english as well so

1379
00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:14,480
that is actually despite the vast

1380
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,640
distance between my home and tokyo it's

1381
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,800
quite easy to

1382
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,480
at least use the metro i tend to not use

1383
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,160
bus i don't use buses in the uk to be

1384
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,880
honest but because they suck not because

1385
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:26,880
i don't know how to ask for a ticket

1386
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,119
um but i tend to avoid buses for that

1387
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,559
reason uh when went out and about but

1388
00:47:29,119 --> 00:47:32,720
the one confusing thing when we went to

1389
00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:35,520
tokyo was um

1390
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:39,119
subway metro hukidori fine crystal clear

1391
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,240
color-coded which is beyond uh language

1392
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:41,680
yeah and

1393
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:44,240
obviously it's all the voice overs in

1394
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,680
english as well but we went to get a

1395
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:47,839
train up to

1396
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:51,200
nico which is like an hour and a bit two

1397
00:47:47,839 --> 00:47:54,240
hours north of tokyo and that was an

1398
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:56,079
exercise in risk essentially of getting

1399
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:57,680
on the right train because that was like

1400
00:47:56,079 --> 00:48:00,319
you need to get this super express

1401
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,400
limited line okay well that was three

1402
00:48:00,319 --> 00:48:04,319
descriptors for a train

1403
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,720
super express and limited right okay let

1404
00:48:04,319 --> 00:48:07,839
me try and find out that one is um

1405
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:09,520
and then you've got to change like a

1406
00:48:07,839 --> 00:48:12,559
local trunk line and then you've got to

1407
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,520
change into something else so that was

1408
00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:16,160
you know basically as soon as you're out

1409
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,400
of the metro metropolitan area it gets a

1410
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,400
little bit trickier because

1411
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,160
colors start to fade away and you're not

1412
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,880
it's all just one uniform color on this

1413
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:27,680
that the other but um when we were in

1414
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,119
seoul unfortunately i was very poorly

1415
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,720
for the first three days i just

1416
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:33,520
basically couldn't talk because my voice

1417
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:34,960
was uh so my throat was so sore so my

1418
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,280
partner was traveling with she was like

1419
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,559
let me let me try a we'll try and find a

1420
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,040
pharmacy

1421
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:43,119
okay what's the korean word for that god

1422
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,040
knows we'll just look for the symbol i

1423
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:47,200
suppose right and we did and on there

1424
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,680
i'm looking ill because i am jet lagged

1425
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,200
and b i'm hideously ill anyway

1426
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,800
we go inside and she's trying her best

1427
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,160
to talk to the the doctor behind the

1428
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,480
counter she's got her phone out she's

1429
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,000
trying to you know again translation we

1430
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,400
at least we can at least attempt it not

1431
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,839
like in the you know the setup you gave

1432
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,119
and she's like ah you know my

1433
00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:05,359
boyfriend's ill

1434
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:07,680
and he took one look at me and then in

1435
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:09,040
insanely good english just like how long

1436
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,559
have you had the symptoms what are you

1437
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,000
feeling

1438
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:17,079
i missed that and the other and he's an

1439
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:17,079
older an older generation dude as well

1440
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,559
how do you feel about this yeah that's

1441
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:24,319
fine okay these two times a day for the

1442
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:26,240
next three days if you still need them

1443
00:49:24,319 --> 00:49:27,520
come back later on

1444
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:28,880
thank you thank you thank you so we were

1445
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,800
expecting to go and have to have this

1446
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,960
hard-fought battle of like trying to

1447
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,319
comprehend how to take medication in a

1448
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,160
different language but in the end he was

1449
00:49:34,319 --> 00:49:38,800
just like no bish bash bosh get out you

1450
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:41,440
don't like yeah

1451
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,359
couldn't have asked for more

1452
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,599
virus

1453
00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:47,520
a buttload of medication and honeyed hot

1454
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:49,200
honey water for the next two days and i

1455
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:52,240
suddenly started to film myself again

1456
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:54,720
but uh no i i that is the thing right we

1457
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:56,240
talk about languages and again

1458
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:58,400
i'm gonna continue this diversion but

1459
00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:59,760
hey that's my program because they have

1460
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,359
obviously india they have this language

1461
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,839
called common which is basically a

1462
00:50:01,359 --> 00:50:04,880
crutch for the the world builder to say

1463
00:50:03,839 --> 00:50:06,240
do you know what if you want to get away

1464
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,680
with everybody talking the same language

1465
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:09,040
you can it's called this language called

1466
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,480
common because there isn't a more

1467
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,000
inventive word for it

1468
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:15,520
feel free to fill in that blank if you

1469
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:17,200
want to mr mr world builder but it does

1470
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,359
you know i've never thought of it

1471
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,359
until just now as as a crotch because it

1472
00:50:19,359 --> 00:50:23,040
does take away so much of that world

1473
00:50:21,359 --> 00:50:24,400
building opportunity for you you just go

1474
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,920
oh okay we can speak common i guess

1475
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,400
that's how this world works whereas in

1476
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,839
reality you've lost that

1477
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,559
you know stranger in a strange land

1478
00:50:29,839 --> 00:50:34,000
you've lost that how do i

1479
00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:36,800
communicate or talk to these people

1480
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:39,520
because there's mainly 99 times out of

1481
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:41,200
100 someone can talk common and in that

1482
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,440
last one edge case one of the party

1483
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:46,319
members can talk the native tongue

1484
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:48,079
and i i do think that is a very

1485
00:50:46,319 --> 00:50:49,680
that'll be a very very very interesting

1486
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:51,839
role play experience for all the players

1487
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,960
at the table to be like this city you

1488
00:50:51,839 --> 00:50:56,480
found yourself in it's if you have to a

1489
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,640
completely homebrew like an extreme

1490
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,720
homebrew language that isn't in just to

1491
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,760
make sure the players have it just to be

1492
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:04,160
like you

1493
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:06,160
tell me what do you do how do you do you

1494
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,160
press to digitate do you minor illusion

1495
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,319
the sign for bread like maybe they don't

1496
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,920
eat bread here what does maybe bread is

1497
00:51:10,319 --> 00:51:13,200
something else you know that doesn't

1498
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,319
mean anything to them like that that

1499
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,280
would be

1500
00:51:14,319 --> 00:51:19,599
hugely interesting as a player

1501
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,440
how do i get over this hurdle you know

1502
00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:23,599
maybe bread has got this weird

1503
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,760
spiritual meaning to think that that

1504
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:28,079
symbolism is is it means something else

1505
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,280
because of their folklore their their

1506
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:30,960
histories you go there and you're just

1507
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,599
immediately insulting these people

1508
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:36,480
because you don't know what to do uh

1509
00:51:33,599 --> 00:51:38,240
would be very an interesting conceit

1510
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,800
no i i i i fully agree i mean we've

1511
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:42,640
we've played around with it and um on

1512
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,880
survey team three which is one of our um

1513
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,880
our main shows we play open language a

1514
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,359
lot where because singapore is is a very

1515
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,680
multilingual place right so many of our

1516
00:51:49,359 --> 00:51:54,240
players uh speak many languages i speak

1517
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:57,599
a couple right so um the goblin player

1518
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:58,480
at our table we uses hokkien which is a

1519
00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:02,960
a

1520
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:05,040
sort of chinese language that is from

1521
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,319
similar to taiwanese in many ways and so

1522
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,319
there's there's a large sort of

1523
00:52:06,319 --> 00:52:11,599
proportion of folks that are of chinese

1524
00:52:08,319 --> 00:52:13,920
origin in in singapore and it's uh it is

1525
00:52:11,599 --> 00:52:15,839
one of those languages that is beautiful

1526
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,960
to swear in it's just got a certain

1527
00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:19,680
visceral

1528
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,839
yeah filthiness to it right but like the

1529
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,280
swear words are just horrible i'm not

1530
00:52:21,839 --> 00:52:25,040
going to repeat any of them right and

1531
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:27,119
then julie know it don't take that some

1532
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:29,440
homework for me now oh yeah

1533
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:31,119
it's like you know like i like languages

1534
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,359
you can curse in well and like you know

1535
00:52:31,119 --> 00:52:35,200
hokkien is definitely one of the mid-ceo

1536
00:52:33,359 --> 00:52:39,040
and it has some just amazing idioms as

1537
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,920
well so yeah so um we often do things

1538
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,480
where

1539
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:44,400
um and it it is part of the show and i

1540
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,000
know that that sort of can be difficult

1541
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,119
at times right but where one of the

1542
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,440
players

1543
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:51,760
speaks and swears in hokkien to

1544
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:54,640
represent them speaking um

1545
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,319
goblin and sometimes you know some of

1546
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:59,359
the other players who also speak hokkien

1547
00:52:56,319 --> 00:53:01,839
or whatever kind of like speak it very

1548
00:52:59,359 --> 00:53:03,040
badly as it were you know to represent

1549
00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:04,880
the fact that their characters have

1550
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,720
learned a little bit of it but it's not

1551
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,000
their primary language and so they're

1552
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:10,240
like ah

1553
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:13,760
um and then they do it the way that you

1554
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:16,160
can you know sort of uh uh a a a young

1555
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,760
school boy might go oh bonjour

1556
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,400
uh je vous drey

1557
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,400
uh um

1558
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,400
uh sibu play all right you know and sort

1559
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,119
of like kind of that awful sort of

1560
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,240
stilting yes french that uh the the the

1561
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:31,280
the sort of yeah people thought that

1562
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:32,000
they can patronize you about and they're

1563
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,599
saying

1564
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,680
flashing that you are a foreigner like

1565
00:53:33,599 --> 00:53:37,920
you are not a native speaker yeah

1566
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:40,480
it's it's wonderful and so the the

1567
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,800
and another thing we do is that um

1568
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,079
so common is not the same

1569
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,839
from

1570
00:53:44,079 --> 00:53:48,800
everywhere in my world and what i mean

1571
00:53:45,839 --> 00:53:50,800
by that is uh if the players move from

1572
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,720
and primarily they've mostly hung around

1573
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,640
in one region in in this game there's

1574
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:56,319
another another game there sort of in

1575
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:59,280
another area a different set of players

1576
00:53:56,319 --> 00:54:00,319
from another area and so common is sort

1577
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,599
of a

1578
00:54:00,319 --> 00:54:05,280
um

1579
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:06,000
a trade language of convenience so

1580
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,160
you

1581
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,720
the common language between these kind

1582
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:13,200
of regions is the kind of equivalent of

1583
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:14,880
maybe you know chinese would have been

1584
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,040
right uh you know for certain areas

1585
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,000
around here and the common language over

1586
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,160
here is

1587
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:22,559
what maybe malay would have been right

1588
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,400
and the common language over there is

1589
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:26,000
what may be english or german or french

1590
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,599
or italian would have been or latin

1591
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,440
would have been or greek yeah especially

1592
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:31,200
right phoenician and actually if you

1593
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,720
look at the looking back to like the the

1594
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,240
sort of history and mythology and stuff

1595
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:36,799
and everything else if you look at the

1596
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:39,599
the the the evolution of languages and

1597
00:54:36,799 --> 00:54:41,680
you know the especially the languages

1598
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:43,599
from you know the levant and sort of

1599
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,599
areas where ancient vegeta is and

1600
00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:47,520
everything else right it's the fact that

1601
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:49,440
they were traders that they carried all

1602
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,480
these words and concepts around right

1603
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,079
it's the fact that the greeks were

1604
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:55,119
traders and would travel a lot it's the

1605
00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:57,359
fact that you know um that the

1606
00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:59,920
the the empires of these people also

1607
00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:01,200
expanded right and those languages got

1608
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:03,760
brought with them and were considered

1609
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,799
those are this is the high language

1610
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:09,200
right and so you you end up with some

1611
00:55:06,799 --> 00:55:12,160
quite interesting things right so uh uh

1612
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:15,040
to give an example right for a long time

1613
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:17,359
speaking english at home or you know

1614
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:20,160
speaking english in uh in

1615
00:55:17,359 --> 00:55:22,079
in society was a sign of education in

1616
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,480
the soviet india right and so people

1617
00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:26,079
would speak english because uh it was a

1618
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,799
sign of social status

1619
00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:27,599
right

1620
00:55:26,799 --> 00:55:29,520
so

1621
00:55:27,599 --> 00:55:31,680
having people use common as a sign of

1622
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:34,240
social status is quite interesting right

1623
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,760
you know you can play with ideas by

1624
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:37,119
saying oh yeah so

1625
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,480
they they sort of speak a little bit to

1626
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:40,240
you in broken common then turn away and

1627
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,319
talk to their colleague you know in

1628
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:44,640
language you don't understand right and

1629
00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:46,640
they turn back to you and say you know

1630
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,680
very happy with this i'm very happy and

1631
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,200
you know you have to play as make a

1632
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,799
perception check or an inside chat or

1633
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:53,599
whatever and then it kind of creates

1634
00:55:50,799 --> 00:55:56,160
these these additional dynamics right

1635
00:55:53,599 --> 00:55:58,160
yeah yeah of how deception might work or

1636
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,160
how some or how someone may play into

1637
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,630
that and pretend that they don't speak

1638
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,799
good comments you know

1639
00:56:01,630 --> 00:56:06,079
[Music]

1640
00:56:02,799 --> 00:56:07,520
yeah yeah the classic like when some

1641
00:56:06,079 --> 00:56:08,720
people are talking in their native

1642
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,079
language and they think you don't

1643
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:11,680
understand and they're like insulting

1644
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:14,000
you and you just have to

1645
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,720
abso absolutely absolutely yeah there's

1646
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:19,119
all kinds of fun things to be to be done

1647
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:20,400
there and uh yeah look at this idiot he

1648
00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:22,640
doesn't know i'm i'm taking him for a

1649
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:24,559
ride ha ha ha anyway is that a good deal

1650
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,920
for you sir like yeah

1651
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:27,359
exactly

1652
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,720
look look it's uh

1653
00:56:27,359 --> 00:56:29,860
see that building i'm sure i've seen

1654
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:32,400
that building before

1655
00:56:29,860 --> 00:56:34,720
[Laughter]

1656
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,240
um i know we could i mean

1657
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:38,079
we could talk about this forever because

1658
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:39,920
it is such an interesting dynamic and

1659
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:41,440
deep deep topic but is there anything

1660
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,640
that uh you want to talk about that we

1661
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,839
might have not somehow reached yet yeah

1662
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,680
i want to

1663
00:56:45,839 --> 00:56:49,200
you know the the the subject of this is

1664
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,760
mythology and it's a strange subject in

1665
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:54,000
some ways because it's not directly you

1666
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,920
know a dnd subject right but it's i

1667
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,520
think i think part of the sort of the

1668
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,960
bigger point i want to make is like is

1669
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:03,599
that it's so much um the underlying

1670
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,119
fabric of all of our backgrounds right

1671
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:06,799
and yeah i'll give you a good example

1672
00:57:05,119 --> 00:57:07,920
right so um

1673
00:57:06,799 --> 00:57:10,240
greek

1674
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,440
myth and legend right so

1675
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:14,559
odysseus

1676
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:16,880
and uh the odyssey or the trojan war

1677
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:19,200
right yeah um you know the founding of

1678
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:21,359
rome was another myth right you know the

1679
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,880
sort of form of troy and then then inius

1680
00:57:21,359 --> 00:57:24,400
kind of goes to rome and then you have

1681
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,599
rome you have romulus and remus and you

1682
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,240
have all this kind of stuff you have the

1683
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:30,079
roman legions you have all of this cool

1684
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,760
stuff that's out there and then it kind

1685
00:57:30,079 --> 00:57:34,079
of the funny thing is it kind of then

1686
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:37,680
enters into to britain for example and

1687
00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:39,440
you have the um the the lost legion

1688
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:41,520
right that sort of like you know that

1689
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,119
you survived the ninth i believe it was

1690
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,280
right you probably like maybe the school

1691
00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:46,799
read stories about the the the famous

1692
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,920
sort of eagle of the ninth or whatever

1693
00:57:46,799 --> 00:57:49,680
and there became a whole bunch of

1694
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,760
stories about like things about actually

1695
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,319
yeah yeah exactly right and so all of

1696
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:57,440
these stories kind of are there and

1697
00:57:54,319 --> 00:57:59,200
they're linked and they're linked by the

1698
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,319
most wonderful thing which is humanity

1699
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,960
right which is the

1700
00:58:00,319 --> 00:58:05,920
all of us in this unbroken chain from

1701
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:08,400
the dawn of time right have created and

1702
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,559
trodden down all of these kind of like

1703
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:13,119
bits of myth and legend and people will

1704
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:15,280
be talking in you know in the metaverse

1705
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:16,720
in the thousand years in the whatever

1706
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,559
the the

1707
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,520
the next hype cycle is after that right

1708
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:23,359
but you know the the the tri-d meta

1709
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,040
verse you know whatever it is um you

1710
00:58:23,359 --> 00:58:27,200
know years to the future they'll be

1711
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,520
they'll be referring back to you know

1712
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,440
things that are myths and legends of now

1713
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:34,880
right and bringing those into their

1714
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:36,799
stories and i think it's just a um

1715
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:39,680
one if you're running short on

1716
00:58:36,799 --> 00:58:41,119
inspiration wikipedia and just go and

1717
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:44,000
look at some ancient myths and legends

1718
00:58:41,119 --> 00:58:46,880
go look at the the epic of gilgamesh go

1719
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:49,680
and actually you know what and i'm i'm

1720
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:51,760
i'm a long way from being

1721
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,839
from pushing this on anybody right but

1722
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,200
go look at the bible right i mean if you

1723
00:58:53,839 --> 00:58:57,599
want to go and grab some like you know

1724
00:58:55,200 --> 00:59:00,480
sort of like yeah uh some some stories

1725
00:58:57,599 --> 00:59:03,440
of the the near middle east right there

1726
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:05,760
you've got resonance but you know these

1727
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:08,319
stories because they you slept through

1728
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,000
re or you kind of get through sunday

1729
00:59:08,319 --> 00:59:11,920
school or maybe you're observant and you

1730
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,920
know these stories inside and out and so

1731
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,599
if i talk to the legend of solomon you

1732
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,440
know you know what i'm talking about

1733
00:59:15,599 --> 00:59:19,839
right like these things have got

1734
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,960
resonance and they're deeply embedded in

1735
00:59:19,839 --> 00:59:23,359
all of us

1736
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,960
and don't just sort of step away from

1737
00:59:23,359 --> 00:59:26,559
that and go i must

1738
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,799
create um

1739
00:59:26,559 --> 00:59:30,720
an entirely new world and take that

1740
00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:33,359
burden upon yourself when you have the

1741
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:36,319
whole rich tapestry of human history and

1742
00:59:33,359 --> 00:59:39,599
culture to kind of dig into

1743
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:41,040
yeah absolutely absolutely and the one

1744
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:42,640
one final thing

1745
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,240
that hopefully will be as good as that

1746
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,640
that i wanted to mention and we alluded

1747
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,359
to it earlier on around how there's you

1748
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,200
know

1749
00:59:47,359 --> 00:59:52,319
all around the world were all playing

1750
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:54,319
dnd or tt rpgs and how we met you

1751
00:59:52,319 --> 00:59:55,440
mentioned that this these myths and

1752
00:59:54,319 --> 00:59:56,880
legends

1753
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,040
are also known all the way around the

1754
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:01,440
world just perhaps by a different name

1755
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,880
and i like i love the parallel there

1756
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,280
between

1757
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,799
ttrpgs and these myths and legends from

1758
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,119
from centuries ago

1759
01:00:06,799 --> 01:00:11,760
where every every every table

1760
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:15,040
somewhere will have a myth a legend from

1761
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:16,720
their game that is just as you know

1762
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:19,280
providing as a language

1763
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,640
some to facilitate it is possible by

1764
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:23,119
another game on the other side of the

1765
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,520
table oh our fighter charged up to the

1766
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:26,799
dragon and oh he rolled a natural 20 and

1767
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:29,200
he chopped the dragon's head off and we

1768
01:00:26,799 --> 01:00:30,720
were watching like that is instantly

1769
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:33,200
a legend from your game that is now

1770
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,640
could be become a myth in somebody

1771
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,960
else's game and on the other side of the

1772
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:39,280
pond and it's i just love that yeah that

1773
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:41,280
transmission of of stories and ideas and

1774
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,960
one of one of the reasons why we find

1775
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:45,440
ourselves talking today for the on on

1776
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:47,599
the basis of the show so yeah

1777
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:49,200
in its own way i mean you you you've hit

1778
01:00:47,599 --> 01:00:51,599
the nail on the head because the grey

1779
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:53,680
hawk source book is exactly that right

1780
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:56,480
it's sort of you know guy x hansen's

1781
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:58,880
game right and uh you know

1782
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:01,200
the taldori book that's on my shelf over

1783
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,799
here i mean you know not to not to the

1784
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,880
mental critical role just for you know

1785
01:01:02,799 --> 01:01:07,040
shits and giggles but you know that's

1786
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:09,599
that's part of the myth and legend that

1787
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:12,079
people will be playing in that world and

1788
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:13,839
using sort of you know mercer's world

1789
01:01:12,079 --> 01:01:16,240
okay that's great i mean that's that

1790
01:01:13,839 --> 01:01:18,079
that's amazing right so

1791
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:20,640
tell those stories to other people it's

1792
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:22,400
wonderful and then let there let that

1793
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:25,040
sort of legend live on

1794
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,799
absolutely well thank you ever so much

1795
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,799
for that is there anything you would

1796
01:01:26,799 --> 01:01:29,599
like to promote

1797
01:01:28,799 --> 01:01:31,839
so

1798
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:33,760
a very kind of you to offer um i think

1799
01:01:31,839 --> 01:01:35,920
there's a couple of things i would like

1800
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,440
to mention the first is uh

1801
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:39,680
the fourth culture which is uh you can

1802
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:42,960
find us at t4c.online

1803
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:45,040
uh we do all kinds of nonsense um we're

1804
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:47,599
currently in the process of actually

1805
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:49,280
incorporating t4z studios which is a

1806
01:01:47,599 --> 01:01:51,599
much bigger thing where we're pulling

1807
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:55,599
together a bunch of streams and we're uh

1808
01:01:51,599 --> 01:01:58,079
all going to uh uh can again focus on um

1809
01:01:55,599 --> 01:02:00,960
uh d d and d and d adjacent kind of

1810
01:01:58,079 --> 01:02:03,520
content ttrpg adjacent content so um you

1811
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,280
know there's a there's random nonsense

1812
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,440
that we'll be ensuring there but with

1813
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:09,359
the idea of also

1814
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,359
allowing people to tell stories from

1815
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:13,660
their own cultures and include them in

1816
01:02:11,359 --> 01:02:14,880
games so it's sort of a

1817
01:02:13,660 --> 01:02:16,160
[Music]

1818
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,480
very much work in progress but yeah you

1819
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,880
can find it at t4c.online

1820
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,240
and i think the uh the second thing i

1821
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:27,280
would like to mention if it's all

1822
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:29,599
possible is uh that um it is

1823
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:32,400
it's very interesting the world we live

1824
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:35,359
in right now uh because everybody is

1825
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:39,839
finding reasons to

1826
01:02:35,359 --> 01:02:41,839
separate and discriminate and say that

1827
01:02:39,839 --> 01:02:42,559
for good or for bad reasons that they

1828
01:02:41,839 --> 01:02:46,000
are

1829
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:48,960
different and unique and special or that

1830
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:51,200
they are different and therefore bad and

1831
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:53,039
you know not worthy

1832
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:56,960
and

1833
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:58,720
d is an opportunity for people to get

1834
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,680
together and

1835
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:04,000
fight monsters and you know bring some

1836
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,599
light back into the world or whatever it

1837
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:08,319
is that you're doing but do it in a way

1838
01:03:05,599 --> 01:03:10,240
that is that most ancient of things it

1839
01:03:08,319 --> 01:03:12,480
sort of hearkens back to sitting around

1840
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,680
the fire and telling tales together it's

1841
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:17,200
the most

1842
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:18,880
it's the most uniting of things sitting

1843
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:23,039
together and telling stories and cutting

1844
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:26,079
the bills bridges and friendships and

1845
01:03:23,039 --> 01:03:27,599
this is a wonderful hobby that we have

1846
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:29,359
and a wonderful opportunity that we have

1847
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:31,200
to tell each other stories and share

1848
01:03:29,359 --> 01:03:34,880
them and

1849
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:36,799
seek those moments of creating unity i

1850
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:39,359
would say and so i don't know if i'm

1851
01:03:36,799 --> 01:03:42,400
plugging anything other than um you know

1852
01:03:39,359 --> 01:03:42,400
being a nice person

1853
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,280
i can't think of it i can't think of a

1854
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:48,559
better thing to to plug so no that's

1855
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,440
that's fine

1856
01:03:48,559 --> 01:03:51,440
um

1857
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,680
well all that's left to say then is

1858
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,599
thank you ever so much ramji that was a

1859
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,640
fantastic discussion very insightful

1860
01:03:55,599 --> 01:03:58,160
discussion so thank you very much for

1861
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,520
joining us today thank you very much for

1862
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,520
having me it's been it's been incredible

1863
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:04,000
it's a lot of fun to talk awesome uh

1864
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,960
thank you to everybody for listening at

1865
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,200
home

1866
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:08,160
as usual all the pertinent links are in

1867
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,240
the episode description i would

1868
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:12,079
encourage you to check them all out and

1869
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:14,000
while you're there you can find links to

1870
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:16,160
my things that you might want to like or

1871
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,680
subscribe to and you know

1872
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,680
what costs what's the cost of another

1873
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:22,319
click nothing so

1874
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,839
united states that like button or

1875
01:04:22,319 --> 01:04:26,880
whatever it is whatever they whatever

1876
01:04:23,839 --> 01:04:26,880
they say

1877
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,960
uh yes otherwise thank you everybody for

1878
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:34,559
listening and good night

1879
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,520
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1880
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:38,720
outs

1881
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:41,359
thank you to robert hartley dm for viva

1882
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:43,680
the dirt league and writer on the dnd

1883
01:04:41,359 --> 01:04:45,200
the logic web series

1884
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:48,079
i would encourage everybody to check him

1885
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:49,039
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

1886
01:04:48,079 --> 01:04:51,280
twitch

1887
01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:53,760
thank you to optional rule a two time

1888
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:56,559
guest of the show and a very insightful

1889
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,839
and knowledgeable source of information

1890
01:04:56,559 --> 01:05:00,839
please check them out at

1891
01:04:57,839 --> 01:05:00,839
www.optionalrule.com

1892
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:06,559
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1893
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:08,960
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1894
01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:11,359
out there making hilarious and

1895
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:13,119
educational dungeons and dragons content

1896
01:05:11,359 --> 01:05:14,880
please go and check out his stuff at

1897
01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:17,280
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1898
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,880
links to all of his socials and all of

1899
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,559
his content including his own patreon

1900
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:22,319
which i would very much encourage you to

1901
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:25,200
check out

1902
01:05:22,319 --> 01:05:27,119
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1903
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,400
on twitter for supporting the show

1904
01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:31,400
if you need support running your

1905
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:33,599
personal or business schedule head to

1906
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,280
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1907
01:05:33,599 --> 01:05:37,440
make that difference between should do

1908
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:39,200
and done boss it better with support

1909
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:41,520
from cat who will help you get back that

1910
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essential time you've been searching for

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if you would like to support what we do

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and get four shout outs a month head

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over to patreon.com thinking critically

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or you can just buy me a coffee at

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kofi.com thinking critically

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[Music]