Dec. 17, 2021

Mashups


For this mixed up episode I'm joined by Jeff Greiner, the DM of potentially the longest running actual play podcast, The Tome Show. Jeff & I talk about mashups not only within our favourite TTRPG, but within the hobby at large, covering several methods for effectively smushing together your favourite features! Jeff takes us through the ways and means he's brought together often disparate published modules such as Descent into Avernus and Curse of Strahd. One simple but effective method is to sprinkle in some foreshadowing which, despite requiring some additional overhead, reduces that potential for genre whiplash. Talking off, varying theme and tone can keep your game interesting, as 20 sessions of a single vibe can easily be fatiguing for all involved. Which is a perfect segue into how different TTRPG systems inevitably affect the experience, thematically and otherwise; probably why a mashup of them has been difficult to achieve!

  • 04:35 - Combining Published Modules
  • 25:39 - Mashing Up Genres
  • 37:16 - Merging TTRPG Systems
  • 47:58 - Mesh Worldbuilding
  • 58:34 - It's a Monster Mash

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References:

Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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welcome thinkers to season three episode

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eight today's topic is mashups

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by jeff grayner

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from the tome show thank you ever so

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much for joining us today jeff can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself

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sure yeah i'm happy to be here uh so my

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name is jeff greiner i am the founder

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i don't know producer whatever you want

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to call it for the tome show uh

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i've been podcasting as the tome show

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for

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15-ish years now it is a d d focused

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podcast we do

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news reviews interviews uh um

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book clubs whatever right uh we've got

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some actual play uh going on in there as

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well

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uh but what whatever it is it's d d

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focused um and it it basically started

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in 2006 because it was a podcast that i

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wanted to have to exist and nobody was

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doing dnd podcast and so uh i i so far

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as i know i got to it first i don't know

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that there was this there is a dnd

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podcast around today

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um that was around back then as well

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that has been going continuously that

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whole time so

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so that's me i've and i've been um i'm a

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42 year old man in the on the eastern

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time zone of the united states who's

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been playing d d since i was

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eight

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uh started with second edition um back

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in the 80s um so yeah so i've been

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playing d d a lot and i don't know

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probably the last

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20 years of that has been primarily as a

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dungeon master

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amazing um i can only hope that my

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podcast has the longevity of yours

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that's mostly stubbornness yeah

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so in which case then i probably will do

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knowing me so yeah

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excellent well thank you so much um the

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topic of today's discussion is mashups

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so what does that term mean to you in

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the d d framework

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yeah so so the idea of match ups in in

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rpgs or whatever right is is take two

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things that don't necessarily feel like

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they are inherently

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combined and combine them anyway and see

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what kind of weird awesomeness comes out

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of it

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have you got any um

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for the for the sake of the listeners

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obviously obviously i know what you're

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talking about but let's take a look at

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this have you got any like really

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poignant examples like really crystal

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clear examples of like a classic

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this topic came to me because i have

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i've had this situation where

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um since 5th edition came out they've

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had a relatively slow release schedule

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right they put out you know a couple of

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adventures a year

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uh and maybe some other books along the

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way but those first few years even it

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was just

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two books a year and that was all they

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did for several years and that was

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actually about right that was about

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perfect for me uh but even then like

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a single campaign with one of those

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adventures might take me a year year and

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a half to run and so

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my solution to that was let's just take

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a bunch of adventures

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a bunch of these like you know one to to

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what are they they tend to go 12 or 1 to

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15 campaigns and let's

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make them into one story right and so i

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ran my first experience with this was i

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ran um

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out of the abyss princess of the

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apocalypse and then i pulled up an old

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second edition module called the rod of

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seven parts

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uh and they all happened simultaneously

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on top of each other and i ran that as

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my campaign i mashed up all these

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different adventures uh in in actually a

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setting that is also a mashup um you

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know because another thing that you can

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mash up in games is

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um you can mash up sort of the genres

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and the themes of the game and so the

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setting that i

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ran that for was i i called it

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post-apocalyptic fantasy earth okay

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right so it is simultaneously kind of

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post-apocalyptic but also high fantasy

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but you know there's

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large you know fantasy cities built into

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the the the rusting halls of old

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battleships or whatever yeah

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uh and so um

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so i mashed up

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the setting

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in my mashed up campaign of of

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of adventures as well okay okay there's

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quite a few

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things there then that that yeah that

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have

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sprinkled throughout my notes but let's

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start with the big one then in terms of

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combining published modules and now i'm

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very much padawan in this situation

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having never run a single or even played

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i think in a single published module in

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terms of like a a what c published

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module i might have played a little um

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thing from dm skilled or something for a

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one shot but um

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so how

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how trivial is that to do than to

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to take two separate books published 12

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months apart however long and smooshing

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them together in a way that is still

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enjoyable entertainment for everybody at

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the table

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sure so it depends on on both how you

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want to do it

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and

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and at least for me the hard part is i

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don't know

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the beginnings of doing this work for me

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is the narrative

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does you know i look at princes of the

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apocalypse i looked at

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out of the abyss and i'm like well

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there's kind of this shared narrative of

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some sort of

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powerful

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force for chaos

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wanting to be unleashed upon the world

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and do horrible things

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and then i looked at the rod of seven

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parts and i don't even know why i was

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looking at the rod of seven parts that

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old second edition module but it has a

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similar

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story right so in out of the abyss

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the where that's the demon lords have

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been uh unleashed upon the underdark and

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they're rampaging throughout and it's

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all sort of this plot by loth okay

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uh in princess of the apocalypse the the

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ancient uh evil thera's done who has

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been around since you know first edition

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i think d

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originally i think greyhawk

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is trying to escape his prison like

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thera's done is sort of that classic

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like horrible uh horrible creature so

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horrible that even the good and evil

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gods aligned together to imprison them

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yeah because they could not destroy him

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right

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uh and so that's thera's done

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uh and he's uh you know trying to

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through his cult is trying to um bring

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one of his elemental prince's evil

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elemental princes back to the world and

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then the evil elemental princes are

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powerful enough to maybe release him

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from his prison

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and then the rod of seven parts is

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appropriately titled there are these

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seven parts of a rod scattered around

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and when you find one of them it starts

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leading you to the next one and the next

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one and the next one

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and this rod is of uh there are there

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are other agents seeking the parts of

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this rod that work for an entity known

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as mishka the wolf spider uh mishka the

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wolf spider is the exact same sort of

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character as there has done it is a

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horrible evil that the gods had to team

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up to to imprison but couldn't kill sort

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of character uh and the only thing that

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could possibly destroy mishka is the the

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rod of seven parts when it's combined

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right and so i looked at that and i said

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well two of those like why not just say

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that mishka and there is under the same

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character and with a different name in

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different cultures right

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done um the rada seven parts that

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original inventor is actually written in

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such a way that it's not supposed to be

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a continuous campaign

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so much as

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a series of events in a campaign that

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are sprinkled throughout other

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adventures

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so that's okay yeah you're supposed to

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fit it into other things right

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so that's easy enough and then i decided

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well

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and clearly lolth is doing what she's

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doing in the underdark

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as part of an arrangement that she's

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made with misca

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slash there's done yes right

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create some chaos distract all the

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heroes dealing with all these demon

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lords running around so that mishka can

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run around and collect

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the rod pieces which is also what it

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needs not only is it the one thing that

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can just possibly destroy mishka but

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it's also um the one thing that mishka

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needs in order to escape its prison

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right yes the classic double-edged sword

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kind of thing yeah right yeah and so i

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looked at i look you know i kind of i'm

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like i want to

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do two things at once because i don't

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have time to do

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one of these adventures in

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quickly enough you know uh and i kind of

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want to experience all these stories and

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so i i mashed them up together

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and and i started with

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i started with

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well so so i guess the the question you

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were asking was about how how much work

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is it how hard is it so in that case um

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it took a little bit more work once i

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realized there was a shared narrative

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that i could

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so i could weave the stories together in

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a way that makes made sense you still

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have to be willing to

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to chuck parts of the story that exists

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in the in the published adventures right

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because

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clearly like the timelines don't work

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you know because all of them are are

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pretty much like oh my gosh horrible

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things are happening we have to deal

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with it right now yeah but you can't

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deal with all of the horrible things

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simultaneously um you know there are out

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of seven parts is built to do that but

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none of the other adventures are yeah

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you have to be willing to to tweak the

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timeline on a little bit

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completely eliminate certain chunks of

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the story of one story in order to fit

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into it into the other

270
00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:43,760
and then the trick really is

271
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,120
figuring out how you're going to

272
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,800
how you're going to transition back and

273
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,959
forth from one to the other right what

274
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,640
what are the you know in when the the

275
00:09:48,959 --> 00:09:52,720
pcs are in the middle of dealing with

276
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,160
this one storyline

277
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,600
what is going to pull them out of that

278
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,760
storyline to go deal with this other

279
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,120
thing and then come and then go back and

280
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,880
forth so you're kind you're not just

281
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,720
doing one after another but you're

282
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,440
you're sprinkling them all throughout

283
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,360
right um so that way of doing it create

284
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,000
is a little bit more work

285
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,200
um in terms of

286
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,200
i don't know i just spent a lot of my

287
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,839
time thinking about it right on my

288
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,279
commutes to work or or in the shower or

289
00:10:15,839 --> 00:10:18,800
whatever right doing the dishes i'm

290
00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:20,320
thinking about okay how do i do this oh

291
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,680
and i could i could connect that and

292
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,920
then i could run over there and i

293
00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:26,959
actually at one point was

294
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:29,360
also sprinkling in and tying it into um

295
00:10:26,959 --> 00:10:30,720
the green ardeen classic adventure

296
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,000
freeport adventures i don't know if

297
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,279
you're familiar with those it doesn't

298
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,560
ring a bell no

299
00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:39,200
so um freeport is this sort of pirate

300
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:41,200
city on an island uh and it's you know

301
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,200
so it's it's it's a

302
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,839
bit of a hive of scum and villainy if

303
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:48,240
you will yeah but it also has this this

304
00:10:45,839 --> 00:10:50,160
cthulloid sort of thing going on with

305
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,160
this horrible destroyer that's trying to

306
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,880
to break free and and all that kind of

307
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,720
stuff so that kind of fit really well

308
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,640
but when i when presenting all of the

309
00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,160
things going on to the players that one

310
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,800
was the thing that they're like that's a

311
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,320
long ways away yeah and

312
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,839
we'll maybe deal with that later and

313
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,000
they just never quite got around to it

314
00:11:05,839 --> 00:11:09,920
so that part of the the campaign just

315
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,440
sort of you know sometimes the players

316
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,279
tell you what they want to do

317
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,560
and that wasn't what they wanted to do

318
00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:19,279
yeah so we didn't do that bart

319
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,959
i i did actually run um at one point

320
00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:24,320
when i needed a little bit of a break i

321
00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:26,640
uh from the normal campaign i did run a

322
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,640
a one shot of like the first part of

323
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,079
that freeport adventure with different

324
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,519
characters just to be like hey that

325
00:11:30,079 --> 00:11:33,600
thing you never dealt with here here's

326
00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:35,040
what was going on you know and who and

327
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,640
who took care of it and these other

328
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:40,079
characters of yours that took care of it

329
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:42,079
yeah um and so that that is one

330
00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:44,000
way that i did that i mashed up

331
00:11:42,079 --> 00:11:45,839
adventures and it was uh it was a good

332
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,279
amount of work

333
00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:49,360
in terms of contemplating how they all

334
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:51,839
fit together and what have you but once

335
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,639
i don't know the way my brain works once

336
00:11:51,839 --> 00:11:55,839
i

337
00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:57,839
start to see the connections in my head

338
00:11:55,839 --> 00:11:59,519
then that becomes you know my my classic

339
00:11:57,839 --> 00:12:01,839
head cannon and that's the only thing

340
00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:02,560
that makes sense anymore right yes

341
00:12:01,839 --> 00:12:04,000
so

342
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,720
uh then it's just a matter of figuring

343
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,720
out

344
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,959
how to weave the story together and have

345
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,480
the players doing interesting things

346
00:12:08,959 --> 00:12:12,639
the other way i've done it is is

347
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,600
actually much easier my current campaign

348
00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:18,959
is also a mashup of dragon heist water

349
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:21,760
deep and cursive straw wow okay right

350
00:12:18,959 --> 00:12:24,160
but cursive straw is an adventure that

351
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:26,480
it really starts at level three it goes

352
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,240
three to twelve and dragon heist water

353
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,440
deep is one to five

354
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,120
and so

355
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,959
i just made the beginning parts of

356
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,480
cursive straw a little bit harder and

357
00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:36,959
you know so i ran dragon heist water

358
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:40,160
deep uh and then

359
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:41,839
transitioned that into cursive straw

360
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,519
and i threw in a little bit of tails of

361
00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:44,560
the old margrave from kobold press as

362
00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:47,440
well just

363
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:49,519
to transition some things um

364
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,279
but that worked out that's a much easier

365
00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:53,040
match up to do because

366
00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:55,680
you're just focusing on one adventure at

367
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,200
a time now i still find

368
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,639
when doing that

369
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,120
i get a lot of

370
00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:02,720
benefit i guess out of

371
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,480
thinking about what i'm going to do

372
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,160
ahead of time so i knew i was going to

373
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:10,160
run cursive straw after dragon heist

374
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:12,959
water deep so i layered in a bunch of

375
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,560
cursive straw to sort of clues

376
00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:17,360
in those first five chapters for

377
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:19,600
shadowing yeah absolutely so so you know

378
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,200
every now and then the mist would roll

379
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:24,240
through and something would disappear

380
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,959
from the city of waterdeep uh or um

381
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,639
there was uh an old fortune teller who

382
00:13:26,959 --> 00:13:30,240
who took up residence in troll skull

383
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:32,160
alley down just down the street from

384
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,399
where the the characters you know get

385
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:37,519
their their own

386
00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:40,079
tavern or whatever who was actually a uh

387
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:42,560
um oh what are they called

388
00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:44,399
the the travelers the based on the roma

389
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,480
people what are they called

390
00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:46,480
uh

391
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,320
so there's this this old vestani woman

392
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:54,959
uh who was doing fortune telling in a in

393
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,040
a little shack down the street from from

394
00:13:54,959 --> 00:13:58,880
troll skull manor uh that they'd run

395
00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,560
into every now and then or would come

396
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,920
out and you know creepily tell them

397
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:04,079
their fortune whether they want it or

398
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:07,199
not and it turns out that she is the

399
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:09,519
sister of madame eva from the vastani in

400
00:14:07,199 --> 00:14:12,079
in in borovia and she actually gave them

401
00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:14,240
a map of borovia but you know three

402
00:14:12,079 --> 00:14:15,279
levels before they they

403
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,639
went there

404
00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:17,760
they already had a map of it like i

405
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:19,120
don't know what this place is this

406
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,399
doesn't match any place in the world

407
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,639
that we know of i don't know what this

408
00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:24,800
lady's talking about right so i i

409
00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:26,560
sprinkled in all these these hints in

410
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,160
the middle of dragon heist water deep

411
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,600
that there was this other strange thing

412
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,279
going on happening here on the horizon

413
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,920
one thing i've learned from doing the

414
00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:37,360
show is that as i said i am not super

415
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,199
familiar with the running published

416
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,920
modules i know them by name and

417
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:44,720
infamy in some cases sure but a lot of

418
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,079
my guests have have done them and

419
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,920
having to

420
00:14:46,079 --> 00:14:51,360
edit them i guess is the best way to put

421
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:53,120
it is is a common a common theme i don't

422
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,040
know it's very rarely have i ever spoken

423
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,199
to someone that was just like yeah i

424
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,800
just ran that publish module verbatim

425
00:14:57,199 --> 00:15:01,680
line for line i never i didn't have to

426
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,199
change anything now on one yeah and

427
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,519
i don't know we talked about this a lot

428
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:07,920
on my show as well uh

429
00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,199
and there's a lot of work

430
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,959
that people

431
00:15:09,199 --> 00:15:13,360
feel like they need to do but it's

432
00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:16,000
interesting because

433
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,600
for some people the amount of work is it

434
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,399
shouldn't be there

435
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,240
and for other people like but that's how

436
00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:24,560
d d

437
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,800
is has and all you know and probably

438
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,800
should work right

439
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,120
you know because you should be

440
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,759
customizing the modules to make them you

441
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,120
know really be fun for you and for your

442
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,519
players and connect it to their

443
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,880
characters and and what have you right

444
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:41,120
so

445
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,360
for the most part

446
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,600
i would recommend changing modules any

447
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,160
module regardless of how good or

448
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,839
thorough it is just to make it

449
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,560
cut you know customize it and and make

450
00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:54,880
it more yours yeah i don't know

451
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,279
i didn't do much customization of dragon

452
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,040
ice water deep other than

453
00:15:57,279 --> 00:16:01,680
throwing in some extra things for them

454
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,279
to do uh and connecting it to the to the

455
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,279
raven loft piece because i knew that's

456
00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:07,519
where they were going uh and in the near

457
00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:09,199
future i'm gonna be running um the wild

458
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:11,519
beyond the witch light and i don't know

459
00:16:09,199 --> 00:16:14,160
that i i'm gonna i'm gonna add to but i

460
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:16,480
don't really feel like it needs

461
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,240
changes you know i feel like descent

462
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,399
into a furnace is one of my favorites

463
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,800
right now but

464
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:25,279
in order to drive their story i feel

465
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,399
like i really wanted to have a stronger

466
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:27,680
opening

467
00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:29,440
yeah you know and i and i've heard that

468
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,519
a lot from other people that and i think

469
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,199
it can run as is if you have cooperative

470
00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:34,399
players who are like okay fine we're

471
00:16:33,199 --> 00:16:36,320
going to go along with the story that

472
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:37,680
you want to tell all right yeah which we

473
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,519
all know is often

474
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,800
not always the case right but i feel

475
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:42,399
like it it

476
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,480
for some groups it needs some more help

477
00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:45,680
like it has an opening you know oh no or

478
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,800
something horrible has happened to el

479
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,959
torell

480
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,800
uh but if you're but the the story kind

481
00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:52,079
of assumes you're not from el torell and

482
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,079
you're from baldur's gate which is a

483
00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:56,160
city that you know doesn't always get

484
00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:57,279
along very well with el torell so you

485
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,600
could very easily have a bunch of

486
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:01,920
players who are like all right cool

487
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,920
bye

488
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,000
so

489
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,559
um i think there are some some good um

490
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,319
dm's guild adventures that i like to

491
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:12,880
tack on to things right and i don't

492
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:15,600
consider that usually like taking

493
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:18,160
other adventures and and including them

494
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:21,360
or smaller pieces or whatever and

495
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:24,000
including them in a campaign i don't

496
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:26,400
know that i consider that mashing up uh

497
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,760
i guess some people might like uh that

498
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,120
mike mike i told was telling about my

499
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,240
current campaign where we did dragon

500
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:34,080
heist and then um cursive strawd but

501
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,640
that really only gets you through like

502
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:40,080
the second act of the story um and then

503
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,760
the third act is more or less home brew

504
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,679
yeah because ultimately like curse of

505
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,240
straw is a really good adventure

506
00:17:43,679 --> 00:17:47,760
but it ends with and then we went back

507
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,080
home and everything was back to the way

508
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,960
it was and that's not real satisfying

509
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,640
you know

510
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,720
you didn't really accomplish anything

511
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,520
other than just surviving which i guess

512
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,880
is classic for a horror story right yeah

513
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,960
but i didn't start it off as just

514
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,400
cursive straw i started it off with with

515
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,720
dragon heist water deep and this high

516
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,080
fantasy and so you know you you want to

517
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,799
feel like you accomplished something big

518
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,240
so my whole third act is kind of home

519
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:12,240
brew

520
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,720
in terms of i i played with the whole

521
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:18,480
curser straw thing and um

522
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,840
the dark powers that created the domains

523
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,000
they

524
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,440
wanted straw to be defeated so borovia

525
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,880
would come back and they could be they

526
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,320
could be released from their prison and

527
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,320
now the dark powers are running around

528
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,760
in my world and choosing champions all

529
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,720
over the place and now they're trying to

530
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,400
put the

531
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,240
the lightning back in the bottom yeah

532
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,080
classic like you've killed something

533
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,400
that was keeping back something worse

534
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,960
like a greater evil yeah yeah yeah oh no

535
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:44,320
what have we done right so so that whole

536
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:46,480
act is uh well i i think of my campaign

537
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,480
in three acts so the the whole third act

538
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,200
is all homebrew

539
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,000
but

540
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,080
within that home brew i'm like oh well

541
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,160
one of these no champions of the dark

542
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,559
powers you need to hunt down happens to

543
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,559
be a sararack so let's go run

544
00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:02,080
um the the tomb from tomb of

545
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,679
annihilation we skipped the entire rest

546
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,240
of the adventure we just ran the dungeon

547
00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:08,559
right uh and then i pulled a couple of

548
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,160
the adventures from um candle keep

549
00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:12,559
mysteries and that were higher level

550
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,480
than fit well and we ran those and right

551
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:16,640
now they're in yithran which is the sort

552
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,240
of final location in rhyme of the frost

553
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,240
maiden um

554
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,520
those are not things i really considered

555
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,760
mashing up because i'm not really

556
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,160
playing with those stories yeah those

557
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:28,400
adventures much at all pick and mix yeah

558
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,080
but but i'm i'm pulling

559
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,559
you know basically pulling locations and

560
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:35,200
dungeons and whatever out and

561
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:36,799
tying it into my existing story yeah i

562
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,320
think one one thing that you mentioned

563
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:39,919
earlier on that i wanted to talk about

564
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,960
is you you said i think descent into a

565
00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:42,799
vernish you said it's one of your

566
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,080
favorite adventures and that got me

567
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:46,880
thinking like

568
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,640
about replayability for players rather

569
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,919
than that you know dm's can run and run

570
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,880
and run it and it can be different every

571
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:52,880
time because the players are different

572
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,320
but in terms of like i know i know it'll

573
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,320
be different with a different group of

574
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,559
players but broadly they're gonna know

575
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,760
what the big story beats are and i was

576
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:01,520
thinking

577
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,159
mashing up published adventures is

578
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,480
probably a very good solution to that to

579
00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:08,480
mix to remix so you're just you know

580
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,720
you're ostensibly still doing

581
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,400
say descent into a furnace but

582
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,919
as you you've done yourself in the past

583
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,600
you mash it up in some way you mix it up

584
00:20:13,919 --> 00:20:17,600
with something else and suddenly even

585
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,600
the even the veteran player is like oh

586
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,280
we're not doing that we're doing some

587
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,200
other interesting thing and then

588
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,640
suddenly they're back you know their

589
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,000
interest is peaked again so that's

590
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,559
probably a good way

591
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,240
to abuse those published modules in a

592
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,760
way to kind of keep things fresh and

593
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,120
unique without the

594
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,880
potentially heavyweight baggage of

595
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:37,360
completely homebrewing something which

596
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:40,080
is right well i'm doing it

597
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:42,240
that feels right to me

598
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,919
i haven't used it that way but but that

599
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,240
feels like that would be the case right

600
00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:48,320
now now a lot of the adventures have uh

601
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,559
published adventures like any good story

602
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,760
right has has surprise moments and

603
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:54,080
whatever

604
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,000
if you wanted to use it to make it fresh

605
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,840
again and give it some replayability i

606
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,159
think that would work but you might want

607
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,520
to rethink those twists or those

608
00:21:00,159 --> 00:21:03,280
surprises

609
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,200
and make the surprise something that

610
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,559
connects to the news story you're

611
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,679
mashing it up with so that there is

612
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:09,679
still like

613
00:21:07,679 --> 00:21:12,400
some some shock or some surprise to it

614
00:21:09,679 --> 00:21:14,559
you know i've i've even half considered

615
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,960
um i don't think i'm gonna do it but

616
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:19,039
i've have considered mashing up descent

617
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,840
into avernus with the wild beyond the

618
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:25,919
witch light okay um not to be

619
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:28,400
overly spoilery for folks but there is a

620
00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:30,559
a surprising connection at the end of

621
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:33,360
which light that um

622
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:35,280
could make it work i think pretty well

623
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,720
um the the only

624
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,120
thing that's going to stop me from doing

625
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,720
it i think is the fact that i actually

626
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:42,320
bought the

627
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,400
the platinum edition from beetle and

628
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,400
grim of both of those adventures yeah

629
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,320
and so i want to get i want to use every

630
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,280
bit of it because those are expensive so

631
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,960
i want to use every every morsel yeah

632
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,320
absolutely those are the only only

633
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,360
beetle and grim products i bought are

634
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,720
those two

635
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:58,159
and they happen to be two that i think

636
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,200
would match up pretty well but i don't

637
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:00,960
want to

638
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,200
i don't want to miss out on all of the

639
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,000
early stuff from descent into avernus by

640
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:08,400
using which light instead yeah yeah yeah

641
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,320
no i love i love the

642
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,080
one thing we i surprisingly haven't

643
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,080
talked about on the show despite talking

644
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,760
about everything from you know

645
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,320
homebrew and designing encounters and

646
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,080
npcs and monsters and publishing and

647
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,679
making your own adventures and all that

648
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,039
kind of stuff one thing i think is

649
00:22:21,679 --> 00:22:25,919
unique is

650
00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:26,880
is this exercise is this thought process

651
00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:28,720
of

652
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,919
mashing up published adventures we've

653
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,480
talked about running them before we've

654
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:34,320
talked about customizing them but this

655
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,440
way of thinking about them in such a way

656
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,200
that they can

657
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,159
become greater than the whole of you

658
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,320
know the whole is greater than the sum

659
00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:42,960
of its parts kind of thing is is quite a

660
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,880
unique exercise to do

661
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,799
i i mean i i certainly wouldn't be any

662
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,840
good at it if i were to do

663
00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:51,360
if i were to start today um but that is

664
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,799
you know i've never that thought process

665
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:55,200
those neurons this particular set of

666
00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:57,600
neurons haven't fired in my head yet

667
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,120
and it's i'm like yeah that's that's

668
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,120
that's a like

669
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:03,280
a unique challenge in the dm right

670
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:04,400
sphere well i mean it's not

671
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,760
it's not

672
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,440
i don't know i

673
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,240
like i said i started back in the second

674
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,240
edition days right and

675
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,640
it wasn't until

676
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,720
even part way through third edition that

677
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,240
like published adventures were campaigns

678
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,080
like that's not a thing

679
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,400
that's really a thing that paizo started

680
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,320
doing when they took over um

681
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,440
dungeon and dragon magazine way back in

682
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,440
the day before they split off and

683
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,640
started pathfinder they were and they

684
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,320
then they started publishing these

685
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,720
adventure pads right

686
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,559
that's really the first time

687
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,080
the dnd companies that the companies

688
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:38,000
that publish for dnd really started

689
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,320
thinking about campaigns publishing

690
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,080
whole campaigns that this the norm for

691
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,120
so long was just like well here's an

692
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,520
adventure

693
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:48,000
you know and it might cover

694
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:50,640
three to five sessions or whatever

695
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,720
and so it was the standard operating

696
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,640
procedure of like hey i've got this

697
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,760
adventure i've got that adventure let's

698
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,360
let's just

699
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,880
figure out a way to make them all happen

700
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,320
in the one campaign and just sort of

701
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,000
keep going and keep playing for as long

702
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,080
as we have fun adventures to play right

703
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,520
yeah uh you know and i mean there was a

704
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,039
point in you know i remember back in my

705
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,159
high school days there was a point where

706
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:11,840
it was like hey um you know i've i had

707
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:13,279
my group of players we were all friends

708
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,799
we hung out together and we all had you

709
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:16,000
know dozens of characters that we've

710
00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:17,039
played through different adventures or

711
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,240
whatever and so every now and then

712
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:20,320
somebody would be like hey i got an

713
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,320
adventure i want to run uh find a

714
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,120
character that you've got that's 12th to

715
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,480
14th level you know or or this is a

716
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:28,480
first level one then we all start new

717
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,039
characters or whatever it is right uh

718
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,400
and so we all have this library uh

719
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:33,679
and it was just whoever wanted to run a

720
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,120
new adventure

721
00:24:33,679 --> 00:24:37,360
tell us what level it should be and then

722
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:39,520
and then piece it together right but so

723
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:42,080
i guess the the point being like mashing

724
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,000
up these adventures is not

725
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,600
it's a logical progression from well we

726
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,120
used to just take all these

727
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,559
smaller adventures

728
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:49,840
and kind of string them together and

729
00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:51,279
make them work

730
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,799
now they're not publishing smaller

731
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,559
adventures very often or when they do us

732
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:56,799
these anthologies like candle keep

733
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:58,159
histories or salt marsh or whatever

734
00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:00,480
right

735
00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:01,679
which which i actually didn't even

736
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,400
mention that i stole a bunch of stuff

737
00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:06,640
out of um ghost of salt march for the

738
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,960
the dragon ice water deep

739
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,120
section of that campaign too

740
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,880
but yeah so i mean

741
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,400
it's not it's a logical progression from

742
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,159
doing all of that and taking all these

743
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,440
disparate sort of adventures and and

744
00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:19,679
piecing them together and stringing them

745
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,520
together into one campaign

746
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:23,919
and then going to okay well now i've got

747
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,000
these big campaigns that run for

748
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:27,440
10 levels or more

749
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,840
it's not

750
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,240
that much of a mental leap to to start

751
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,600
doing that at least at least it wasn't

752
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,080
for me but i've i guess i've been

753
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,720
playing for a minute so

754
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,760
yeah it's just a few yeah

755
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,400
one one we mentioned it earlier on

756
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,480
around changing

757
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:50,400
the theme i guess a genre is maybe maybe

758
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,840
a better word to use um of of

759
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,360
let me bring it back on topic

760
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,679
professionally is that the you know

761
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,960
mashing up genres in particular campaign

762
00:25:55,679 --> 00:25:58,480
so now i don't know too much about those

763
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,480
published modules apart from i know

764
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,480
curse of strata is very

765
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,120
over what's the word not overbearing but

766
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,120
like ominous and right it's trying to

767
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,279
play on your classic sort of victorian

768
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,320
horror tropes yeah and then you

769
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:12,000
mentioned the one that was in like you

770
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,600
know a pirate bay but a little bit

771
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,000
lovecraftians they've all got their

772
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,919
tropes and stuff my

773
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,640
my homebrew campaign the one that i've

774
00:26:17,919 --> 00:26:22,320
been running for quite some time i

775
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,919
is here's my trouble when it comes to

776
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,640
world building and it's the bed that

777
00:26:23,919 --> 00:26:29,760
i've made for myself but um each of the

778
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,120
chapters in that i've said before but

779
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,880
i'll say it again is that i really

780
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:35,279
wanted those to be

781
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,360
self-contained for stars as in they have

782
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:38,880
a beginning in the middle of an end

783
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,880
a bit probably a bit like the seven the

784
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,799
wrong of the seven parts right there's

785
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,520
each one is a mission to go and get

786
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:47,279
something and mcguffin and bring it back

787
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,000
uh and also i really wanted the theming

788
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:50,960
to be really strong so when it comes to

789
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,279
building

790
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,039
the world that all of these

791
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:57,039
it's almost like an anime right so each

792
00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:58,720
episode each each campaign is like this

793
00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:00,400
is the water episode this is the beach

794
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,080
episode this is the

795
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,840
so somehow i've got a string together

796
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,640
getting the players from like you're

797
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,880
deep underground in in you know dwarven

798
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,960
territory and the next chapter i've kind

799
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,799
of got to help you get back from there

800
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,960
all the way up to the elven city in the

801
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,240
clouds because you're off to high

802
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,840
fantasy

803
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:23,039
future technology escalator lift world

804
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,880
so you've got a good sort of uh genre

805
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:26,720
thematic sort of mashup going on there

806
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,080
because because you have them going to

807
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,000
all these different sort of

808
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,240
locations that have extremely different

809
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,399
sort of feels yeah yeah yeah and i've

810
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,000
even done a it wasn't quite well

811
00:27:34,399 --> 00:27:37,120
actually it was a little bit

812
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,240
like um

813
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:41,360
borovia in that it was a i actually i

814
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,279
probably cripped more from that

815
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:44,880
subconsciously than i have ever thought

816
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:47,039
about in the past but it was very much

817
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,200
like a run-down

818
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:51,360
predominantly human settlement like x

819
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,799
our x farming settlement has some kind

820
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,720
of curse which has

821
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:58,080
basically killed all the crops and

822
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,679
it's always just gray and raining and

823
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,679
you know the signs are falling off the

824
00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:04,240
shops that feels like barometer to me

825
00:28:01,679 --> 00:28:06,320
yeah yeah yeah now now i'm saying it

826
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,159
it's it's crypto i think i you know it

827
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,159
could well have been lifted shifted from

828
00:28:08,159 --> 00:28:12,159
the shadow bell like in the blink of an

829
00:28:10,159 --> 00:28:13,600
eye but that was very much the theme i

830
00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:16,000
was going for i was just like a hop

831
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,679
skipping a two days ride from the

832
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,360
capital city of this continent which is

833
00:28:17,679 --> 00:28:21,840
you know thriving

834
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:23,200
megapolis uh so yeah trying to trying to

835
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,679
smush those together i've been quite

836
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:28,480
happy that uh i guess quite lucky that

837
00:28:25,679 --> 00:28:30,799
my players uh have as you said earlier

838
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,720
on like are happy to meet me halfway and

839
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,960
kind of like okay i know what dan low's

840
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,799
going for here let's uh let's go let's

841
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,840
sit here buckle up and let's settle in

842
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:40,320
for the

843
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,919
for the journey well and and

844
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,679
like that's a whole

845
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:45,520
way of thinking about and doing things

846
00:28:43,679 --> 00:28:48,000
that i think

847
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,159
provides some some interesting variety

848
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,679
that helps a campaign

849
00:28:50,159 --> 00:28:53,279
thrive you know

850
00:28:51,679 --> 00:28:55,520
if if i ran

851
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:58,000
a campaign from first level to 20th

852
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,720
level and it was all doom and gloom and

853
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:04,000
dark and ominous like morovia the entire

854
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:06,399
time like that would get tiresome

855
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,640
right there there was a a point playing

856
00:29:06,399 --> 00:29:10,960
through cursive straw where if the the

857
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,080
players were i think starting to feel

858
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,320
the same thing that their characters

859
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,240
were feeling like it is just nothing but

860
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,360
you know human gloom for a long time and

861
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:21,840
oppressive and then yeah absolutely so

862
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,679
so once we got out it was like okay

863
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,120
now i'm home brewing the rest of you

864
00:29:23,679 --> 00:29:27,200
know the act three like i mentioned

865
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,279
right and so

866
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,600
i've very purposely been like okay what

867
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:33,840
can i do what kind of

868
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,279
thing little vignettes can we do

869
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,880
uh these little

870
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:38,840
encounters or adventures smaller

871
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:42,080
adventures or whatever can we do that

872
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,120
is allowing us to explore these

873
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,559
different

874
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,240
genres right

875
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:49,520
now it's not so

876
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,960
blatant as like i'm purposely genre

877
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,960
mashing

878
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,640
but i'm mixing i'm mixing up a little

879
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,960
bit of my um

880
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,039
my story right and so and so when you

881
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,120
know you've been through through

882
00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:03,520
uh curse of strawd the next big

883
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,159
adventure that they ran through was

884
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,480
a mega mega death trap dungeon

885
00:30:06,159 --> 00:30:11,200
from two of annihilation right uh and

886
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,799
then i threw in a little bit of uh i

887
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,559
pulled the mass combat rules that had

888
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,919
they had an unearther cannon for mass

889
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:18,240
combat right yeah we did we did this

890
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:20,880
sort of the battle of of el torell

891
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,679
trying to save the holy city uh sort of

892
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,279
um adventure at one point and we pulled

893
00:30:23,679 --> 00:30:27,360
from candle keep mysteries and did these

894
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:29,440
sort of small little mysteries and one

895
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,320
of them that was actually written by a

896
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,559
friend of mine brenda stoddard um has

897
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,240
to do heavily with the fae and so we got

898
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:38,720
to bring in a little bit of a little bit

899
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,520
of fey stuff with our story as well and

900
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,440
so

901
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,440
that's that's allowed

902
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,120
to break it up a little bit to have that

903
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,679
campaign go for a long time we've been

904
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:50,000
playing this campaign for two almost two

905
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:51,840
and a half years okay um you know and i

906
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,960
think if you just did a campaign with

907
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,039
one sort of genre or theme throughout

908
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,600
for two and a half years it would

909
00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:02,799
possibly become tiresome right so by by

910
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,120
switching uh switching it up that's that

911
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:07,200
makes it more interesting now

912
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,480
what's sometimes more interesting to me

913
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,279
or at least

914
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,600
what can in the short term what can make

915
00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:15,440
really interesting things is is mashing

916
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,399
up and combining these genres or these

917
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,880
themes

918
00:31:16,399 --> 00:31:21,200
in one at one time right like we talked

919
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,000
about freeport being it is one it is

920
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,320
pirates but it is also uh lovecraftian

921
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,440
um you know the classic is is uh the

922
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:32,640
dresden files right it is detective noir

923
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,880
but it is fantasy right um and so you

924
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,159
know i i like the idea whenever i need a

925
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,760
new idea

926
00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:39,760
and i want to try to make something or

927
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,679
create something and make it interesting

928
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,919
um or unique

929
00:31:41,679 --> 00:31:46,399
my my go-to is okay well i'm kind of

930
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:48,399
interested in this theme

931
00:31:46,399 --> 00:31:50,000
and i'm kind of interested in this theme

932
00:31:48,399 --> 00:31:51,120
what would it look like if those two

933
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,120
themes were

934
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,200
on top of each other right and what kind

935
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,120
of weird and unique things does that

936
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,039
create in my brain

937
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,080
yeah all i can think of now is like a

938
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:04,399
crafting system in a video game uh

939
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,840
like when you when you take nails in a

940
00:32:04,399 --> 00:32:07,360
baseball bat and you take a grafting

941
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,679
bench and you make a baseball bat with

942
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:12,000
nails and i could the zombie game

943
00:32:09,679 --> 00:32:13,279
escapes me but um

944
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,200
that is the same way but you could do

945
00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:17,440
that with genres in real life like what

946
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,360
if i take x and m y and then smush them

947
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,440
together and see what unique things

948
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,679
happen honestly it's more interesting i

949
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,679
think when you do it with with a genre

950
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:27,440
uh you know if i have nails and i have a

951
00:32:25,679 --> 00:32:29,039
baseball bat and i get a baseball bat

952
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,519
with nails in it that's the logical

953
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:33,519
conclusion right that that's not weird

954
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:34,960
and quirky that that is exactly what you

955
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:36,080
would expect nails to do with a baseball

956
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,480
bat right

957
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:41,600
but if i take high fantasy and and

958
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,559
post-apocalyptic and end up with dark

959
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,159
sun like that is weird and unique and

960
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:47,600
that is not

961
00:32:46,159 --> 00:32:49,840
what you would have expected you know

962
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,360
that is a whole different genre because

963
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,679
you took these two other themes and

964
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,840
mashed them up right i i assume you're

965
00:32:53,679 --> 00:32:57,840
familiar with dark sound uh i've i've

966
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,519
heard of it yes yeah i guess i guess if

967
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,399
you've been playing mostly uh in fifth

968
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:03,919
edition yeah you mean so so dark sun was

969
00:33:02,399 --> 00:33:07,679
a second edition

970
00:33:03,919 --> 00:33:10,559
setting that they republished in fourth

971
00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:12,000
uh and the whole idea was

972
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:13,039
it's a desert

973
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,120
setting

974
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:18,000
and there's these sort of independent

975
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,960
city-states ruled by these sorcerer

976
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,600
kings

977
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,519
who practice a type of magic that drains

978
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,200
the life out of the world as they do it

979
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:26,720
which is how the the world became a

980
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,640
desert right it used to be this lush

981
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,799
green environment and and basically

982
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,120
magic was the apocalypse these these

983
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:35,279
power hungry people used this magic that

984
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,360
drained the world of life

985
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:39,760
and and they're oppressive and it's got

986
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,559
you know slavery and back in the second

987
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:45,360
edition days it was if you played a dark

988
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:47,760
sun campaign you like started at level

989
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,840
five because levels one through four

990
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,799
just can't survive it's too too

991
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,720
difficult it's too

992
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:56,960
it's too hard ass um

993
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,440
and and yeah so it's just uh and you

994
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,200
know there's no metal so everything all

995
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,279
your weapons and things are made of like

996
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,720
obsidian but that also means there's a

997
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:06,240
breaking mechanic like you can just hit

998
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,840
something in your sword shatters and now

999
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,560
you don't have a sword and

1000
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,560
um you know your your armor isn't made

1001
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,000
out of leather because

1002
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,599
you know there's not a lot of life

1003
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,440
teaming around and a lot of his you know

1004
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:20,000
chitin is sort of bug-like creatures or

1005
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,760
whatever uh and so your leather armor

1006
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,079
might have been woven from the hair of a

1007
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,960
giant you know that kind of stuff right

1008
00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:27,919
uh and and and psionics were

1009
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,879
or

1010
00:34:27,919 --> 00:34:32,560
influential uh clerics weren't really a

1011
00:34:30,879 --> 00:34:34,480
thing but they kind of were but they

1012
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,839
were all tied to various elements and

1013
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,560
and so even then there was a bit of a

1014
00:34:35,839 --> 00:34:40,079
harshness to it like that was somebody

1015
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,159
back in the second edition day saying

1016
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:43,919
hey what what if we take

1017
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:46,000
a classic fantasy setting let's what if

1018
00:34:43,919 --> 00:34:49,280
we take a greyhawk or forgotten realms

1019
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,560
or whatever and say that the bad guys

1020
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,639
won

1021
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,320
the world is destroyed

1022
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,800
and it's been hundreds of years

1023
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,640
thousands of years whatever now what's

1024
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,960
going on now what does that word look

1025
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,920
like right um so

1026
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,800
yeah it's it's a it's a classic sort of

1027
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:10,240
mashup setting of let's let's take

1028
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,680
post-apocalyptic and and fantasy and do

1029
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:12,720
it in one setting

1030
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,480
those kind of questions are the

1031
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:17,440
interesting kinds of questions what

1032
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,800
would it look like if x and y are like

1033
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,200
right and you can replace those

1034
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,359
variables with any you know the bad guys

1035
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,359
one and it's in the future like you

1036
00:35:23,359 --> 00:35:26,800
could you could just almost

1037
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:28,480
you know there's a way of generating

1038
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,160
maps we just roll dice on a table and

1039
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,280
draw around you know the dice and

1040
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,720
there's a you could probably do that

1041
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,640
with that hypothetical question you

1042
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:36,079
could just write have a dice table and

1043
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,839
roll it and just be like

1044
00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:40,160
the next arc of my campaign is going to

1045
00:35:37,839 --> 00:35:41,680
be if x happened and why haven't and

1046
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,599
then right and then that can be such a

1047
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,079
creative exercise there for the for the

1048
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:48,560
dm to think about like what would that

1049
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:50,000
actually look like well and you do that

1050
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,320
kind of thing with the maps and that

1051
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,280
raises all kinds of i don't know maybe i

1052
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,520
so i

1053
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,599
i've spent most of my life as a social

1054
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,160
studies educator right so geography is a

1055
00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:01,839
thing that i've taught a lot and so i i

1056
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,520
think about rolling the the dice

1057
00:36:01,839 --> 00:36:04,960
randomly on a piece of paper and drawing

1058
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,000
around it and you know each number

1059
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,760
represents a different sort of

1060
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,359
geographic feature and then

1061
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,599
that's going to create lots of moments

1062
00:36:09,359 --> 00:36:13,440
where it's like those things don't make

1063
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:15,359
sense next to each other is this like an

1064
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,920
abhorrent idea to you have i offended

1065
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:19,599
you no no no because that becomes an

1066
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,520
opportunity i look at that like this

1067
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:22,880
doesn't make sense next to each other so

1068
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,359
now i get to come up with some kind of

1069
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,119
kind of weird crazy magical thing that's

1070
00:36:25,359 --> 00:36:29,359
causing it right and i get to tell a

1071
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:32,079
weird story like that actually isn't a

1072
00:36:29,359 --> 00:36:33,680
mountain it's a it's a dead god who you

1073
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:35,119
know the stone just sort of formed up

1074
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,800
around them when they died and that's

1075
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:37,920
why there's a mountain next to that spot

1076
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,240
where there shouldn't be a mountain or

1077
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,160
whatever yeah yeah or why the rivers are

1078
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:44,240
splitting upstream and stuff like that

1079
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,920
is that yeah what what happened there

1080
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:49,119
and how does that happen

1081
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,720
what caused that yeah yeah okay

1082
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:52,480
yeah so that that's a yeah that's a very

1083
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,839
good i get well yeah classic another

1084
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,200
creative exercise there to get those

1085
00:36:53,839 --> 00:36:57,040
creative juices flowing and it's

1086
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,720
probably probably stuff i should

1087
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,560
leverage a bit more rather than just

1088
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:02,720
kind of trying to make everything up

1089
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:06,599
from from day one which is what leads to

1090
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:06,599
me needing to have dm holidays

1091
00:37:08,350 --> 00:37:11,659
[Music]

1092
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:23,200
so we've talked a lot so far around

1093
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:25,359
specifically dnd um and the published

1094
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,960
adventures and stuff around that i had a

1095
00:37:25,359 --> 00:37:28,640
question i don't know maybe this is like

1096
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,400
a really stupid question

1097
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,860
but that's the tightrope i walk with

1098
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,440
this show

1099
00:37:30,860 --> 00:37:34,800
[Laughter]

1100
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,440
is uh

1101
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,200
has there ever been anybody or any any

1102
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,160
desire or inclination by anyone to kind

1103
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,960
of

1104
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,800
smush different ttrpg systems together

1105
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,280
because there isn't you know there's no

1106
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,960
single one ttrpg system which is the

1107
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,720
best that everybody has everything has

1108
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,079
drawbacks or is tailored to a certain

1109
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,599
way of playing and

1110
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:54,720
while preparing for this episode i was

1111
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:56,640
thinking

1112
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:59,839
surely someone at some point must have

1113
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,320
gone oh i like the d20 system but i love

1114
00:37:59,839 --> 00:38:04,640
how this other system does combat

1115
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,920
encounters yeah how can i push those two

1116
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,760
together and

1117
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,000
to me that seems like oh yeah that that

1118
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,920
must happen all the time but

1119
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,880
i can't say i've ever stumbled across

1120
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:17,200
anything like that i mean i know

1121
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,720
there was a certainly a time in my youth

1122
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,040
where i was like oh i'm going to create

1123
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:22,880
a new a new rpg

1124
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,320
game or whatever and it was and then you

1125
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,320
look back at it it's like no it's really

1126
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,680
just me saying i really liked this game

1127
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,359
and i really like this game so i'm going

1128
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,880
to just throw my favorite parts of both

1129
00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:32,560
of them together and it never really

1130
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,400
worked it was it was a practice of

1131
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,560
immaturity but but no

1132
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,880
but it uh it was fun at the time right

1133
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,440
uh it was an exercise to keep my my mind

1134
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,960
busy i think again i don't know that i

1135
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,880
would call it

1136
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,880
mashing up systems but it is not

1137
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:50,240
uncommon to

1138
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:52,160
to take ideas from one game and and lift

1139
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:54,160
them and use them in another game sort

1140
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,680
of like i don't consider you running the

1141
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,520
dungeon from tumor violation really

1142
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,680
mashing it up because i'm just i'm not

1143
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,400
combining the stories but like

1144
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,520
when

1145
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,640
you know so

1146
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,960
uh i don't know if you're familiar with

1147
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,920
the game fiasco yeah yeah played it once

1148
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,560
before yeah i've got the books

1149
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,800
downstairs yeah so fiasco

1150
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,800
has this opens up with this sort of you

1151
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,200
build relationships with each other

1152
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,640
right uh you know so so you're you've

1153
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,560
got some connection to the person next

1154
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,240
to you you know here's a list of

1155
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,000
possible ways that you can be connected

1156
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,920
let's decide randomly and then you tell

1157
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,560
me what that story is right

1158
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,320
i've done that a bunch and actually um i

1159
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,440
think i originally stole that idea of

1160
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,440
using that in dnd from um mike shea from

1161
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,200
sly flourish is a friend of mine

1162
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,440
uh and so

1163
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,720
i think he originally years ago we

1164
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,960
talked about this

1165
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:43,760
uh and so i've done that pretty

1166
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:46,640
regularly now as a session zero for my

1167
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,560
dnd campaigns uh you know that way

1168
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,079
nobody's starting off

1169
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,280
unconnected you know it's not just a

1170
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:52,720
group of strangers and i've got to

1171
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,200
figure out some way to get them together

1172
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:57,040
it's a group of of interconnected people

1173
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,280
yeah and they may not all know each

1174
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,640
other but enough of them know enough

1175
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,400
about each other

1176
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,960
that it makes sense that they would kind

1177
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,839
of come together in that web right yeah

1178
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,599
or

1179
00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:08,480
another way that another thing that i've

1180
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:11,599
seen

1181
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,640
done i haven't done it myself but there

1182
00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:17,839
is a game called i think it's microscope

1183
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,200
okay and in microscope you actually are

1184
00:40:17,839 --> 00:40:21,920
creating

1185
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,760
a world you're creating a setting

1186
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,280
and so i've talked to several people who

1187
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,839
have talked about like you playing the

1188
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,760
game microscope to create a setting

1189
00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:31,359
and then playing d d in that sense oh

1190
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,480
okay right

1191
00:40:31,359 --> 00:40:34,720
uh or

1192
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,880
one of the i mean i i

1193
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:39,760
i'm not a huge fan of like the chase

1194
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,960
mechanics in d d that exist in the dmg

1195
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,560
right they're they're all right but

1196
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,680
they're not super like dynamic or

1197
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,160
exciting

1198
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,160
uh and so when i had some chases that i

1199
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,400
needed to run in dragon ice water deep

1200
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,880
rather than using those mechanics i kind

1201
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,599
of took those mechanics and mashed them

1202
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,720
up with the chase mechanics from uh torg

1203
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:59,280
eternity

1204
00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:00,880
speaking of mashups that's a whole game

1205
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,680
built on around matching up we can talk

1206
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:06,560
about that uh so they so torg eternity

1207
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,359
is is intended intentionally a more sort

1208
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,960
of cinematic game yes right okay so the

1209
00:41:09,359 --> 00:41:12,640
chase mechanics there can be pretty

1210
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,040
dynamic and exciting and whatever and so

1211
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,560
i took the torg eternity chase mechanics

1212
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,880
and mash it up with the d and d chase

1213
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,200
mechanics for that location and the

1214
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,960
obstacles that they presented and did it

1215
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,640
that way and that worked pretty well so

1216
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,440
that's sort of how i think about mashing

1217
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,200
up game systems uh but i also think

1218
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,800
there's a lot of value in recognizing

1219
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,680
that like

1220
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:36,240
system matters when it comes to

1221
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,839
telling a story right and some systems

1222
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,960
are better at telling certain kinds of

1223
00:41:37,839 --> 00:41:41,040
stories

1224
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,200
uh and so

1225
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,240
matt if you're gonna mash up things from

1226
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,119
others

1227
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:48,880
other systems uh into your game then i

1228
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:50,400
think it's worth bearing that in mind

1229
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,760
like d and d

1230
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,760
is a game

1231
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,359
full of mechanics that

1232
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,280
facilitate telling a certain kind of

1233
00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:58,560
story

1234
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,000
other games

1235
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,960
you know uh

1236
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,760
fiasco is not telling that kind of story

1237
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,440
right

1238
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,839
uh so

1239
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,800
so you can steal some ideas but i would

1240
00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:12,560
i would shy away from like completely

1241
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,160
creating a hodgepodge system that tries

1242
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,359
to do it all because it means that it's

1243
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,720
probably not going to be telling the

1244
00:42:15,359 --> 00:42:17,599
kind of story that you want to be

1245
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:19,359
telling

1246
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:21,040
as well as it could yeah it's going to

1247
00:42:19,359 --> 00:42:23,920
dilute the experience a little bit but i

1248
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,200
really love the idea there that

1249
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,560
the system

1250
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,119
that you're playing

1251
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,119
impacts the story i think it's because

1252
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:32,880
sometimes it can be a little bit

1253
00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:35,280
of a

1254
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,520
taboo thought like you could tell any

1255
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,119
story you want in d5e but i think

1256
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,319
ultimately that the

1257
00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:44,880
the framework that's there inevitably

1258
00:42:42,319 --> 00:42:46,319
impacts it emphasizes some things and

1259
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,839
isn't very good at other things like

1260
00:42:46,319 --> 00:42:49,200
chases for example and i think that

1261
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:50,960
inevitably

1262
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,119
shifts the focus

1263
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,880
maybe consciously or not of people

1264
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:56,240
writing you know homebrew and stuff and

1265
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,760
making their own games

1266
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:00,400
it's just kind of there the back of your

1267
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,640
mind that it encourages certain play

1268
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,560
styles and there was a real there was a

1269
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,800
real desire for a long time i feel like

1270
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,960
in the game industry to

1271
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,280
to have you know sort of the the one

1272
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,800
system to rule them all right the one

1273
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,760
game system that can just sort of do

1274
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,680
anything

1275
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,839
and and there are certainly systems that

1276
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,920
can tell any kind of story but that

1277
00:43:17,839 --> 00:43:22,960
doesn't mean that the game

1278
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,960
runs the same right d

1279
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,880
has a certain feel when you're playing

1280
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,839
at the table regardless of the story

1281
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,119
you're telling within that right whereas

1282
00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:35,839
like fate

1283
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:38,960
uh fate i think is a game that can run

1284
00:43:35,839 --> 00:43:42,160
pretty much any game in any

1285
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:44,640
genre in any setting right it can do

1286
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,640
just about anything but it is a very

1287
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,160
sort of narrative

1288
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,200
um i don't know if you've played fake

1289
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:53,599
before no and you only know it by name

1290
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:56,079
yeah so so fate is very much about

1291
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:58,560
giving players narrative control

1292
00:43:56,079 --> 00:44:00,720
uh at different moments and and it's all

1293
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,640
about it's all about building narrative

1294
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,400
and so there's not a lot of concern

1295
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,680
about um

1296
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,319
combat

1297
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,800
game balance you know uh because that's

1298
00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:13,359
not you know there's there's certainly a

1299
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,359
tactical element to playing d yeah oh

1300
00:44:13,359 --> 00:44:17,520
for sure there's not a tactical element

1301
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:19,200
to playing fate it's all about the

1302
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,119
narrative and the story you want to tell

1303
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,359
so it can tell any story but it feels

1304
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:24,319
very different yes yeah that feeling

1305
00:44:23,359 --> 00:44:25,920
yeah

1306
00:44:24,319 --> 00:44:27,680
i and my players are not always in the

1307
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,440
mood for

1308
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,440
you know this very narrative focused

1309
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,960
thing we want to tell stories we want to

1310
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,880
have a narrative but we want to do it

1311
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,400
and have this element of tactics and

1312
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,079
strategy and

1313
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,680
growth you know character development

1314
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:43,440
and leveling up and doing all those fun

1315
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:45,280
things that we do in in d as well

1316
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,960
yeah absolutely it's very very well put

1317
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,720
yeah i think that's a

1318
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,760
pretty much nail on the head there in

1319
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:51,680
terms of

1320
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,200
answering my original question as to why

1321
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,880
somebody hasn't tried to make the silver

1322
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,119
bullet and it's probably because it just

1323
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:00,400
probably won't work or won't be suitable

1324
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:02,079
for most games in a cruel twist of irony

1325
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,960
well i mean people certainly have i

1326
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:07,200
think it was steve jackson games um way

1327
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,000
back in the what 80s and 90s had a

1328
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,400
system called gerps oh yes yeah which

1329
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,800
which stands for generic universal role

1330
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,160
playing it was sort of a generic system

1331
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,880
and then they had all these different

1332
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,920
modules you could use to use girps to to

1333
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,119
tell all these different kinds of

1334
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,520
stories

1335
00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:25,520
i just don't know that it i mean there

1336
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,440
i don't know i never played gerbs i know

1337
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,480
lots of people who did and really loved

1338
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,400
it

1339
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,280
i have to imagine it also though has its

1340
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,599
own specific feel yeah depending you

1341
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,359
know independent of genre there'll be

1342
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:40,160
some concessions made along the way to

1343
00:45:37,359 --> 00:45:42,240
make it generic which again inevitably

1344
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,160
invariably affects some something for

1345
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:46,160
better or for worse now

1346
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,680
did i get the impression earlier that

1347
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,000
you've played torg

1348
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,200
uh no

1349
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,240
you might well have done but it was

1350
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,319
wrong

1351
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:56,800
okay i when i was referencing torque

1352
00:45:54,319 --> 00:45:58,079
attorney i i you see that you you were

1353
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,839
responding in a way that you seemed

1354
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:02,240
familiar with it but that's my high

1355
00:45:59,839 --> 00:46:03,680
charisma oh my god yeah yeah yeah you

1356
00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:06,240
got me with your deception checks yeah

1357
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:09,040
or i just bombed my my uh

1358
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:11,599
whatever it is inside yeah yeah yeah

1359
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,880
no no fiasco yes you played once and uh

1360
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:14,319
the guy actually gave me the books after

1361
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,079
we're done with them so we they're

1362
00:46:14,319 --> 00:46:17,200
sitting downstairs i do need to go back

1363
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:19,200
to that but thank you for reminding me

1364
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,440
actually because i

1365
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,359
i'm a again

1366
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:27,200
i kick myself because

1367
00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:29,200
having the pcs have that like six

1368
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,599
degrees of separation between them it's

1369
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,520
such an elegant solution to that first

1370
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:34,960
so you know session one issue of getting

1371
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,359
people together and i'm kicking myself

1372
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,880
for not having done that despite having

1373
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:42,480
played fiasco before starting my

1374
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:44,560
campaign yeah no it i i i'm certain i

1375
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:47,520
stole that idea of of using that from

1376
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,280
mike shay but it is a you know i i hate

1377
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,200
to give mike moore a bigger head than he

1378
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,560
already has but but it was a brilliant

1379
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,800
idea he and he has lots of brilliant

1380
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,960
ideas so yeah it doesn't even have to be

1381
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,280
like you're their brother or their long

1382
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,240
lost brother it can just be like

1383
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,119
you

1384
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:04,480
worked in their bar once you know 10

1385
00:47:03,119 --> 00:47:06,160
years ago or something and you owe them

1386
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,839
money for and you ran you know something

1387
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,960
something is you know that's that's why

1388
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:10,480
it's fun right because you can kind of

1389
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,960
as you said in session zero you can just

1390
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,319
kind of build that world together and

1391
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,720
invest the players and they haven't even

1392
00:47:14,319 --> 00:47:18,720
started playing yet which is the best

1393
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:20,800
kind of investment yeah no it's a system

1394
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,880
that works really well um

1395
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,119
and then a lot of times i will i'll

1396
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,760
build those relationships but i'll also

1397
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:29,040
connect them to something else in the

1398
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,680
story

1399
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,839
so it was you know the two of you

1400
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,440
know each other from this location that

1401
00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:36,720
i know is going to show up later on in

1402
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,319
the story

1403
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:40,160
right uh you know and then you get to

1404
00:47:38,319 --> 00:47:41,440
completely make up what what did you do

1405
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,599
in that location how do you know each

1406
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,119
other what happened whatever but now

1407
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:46,559
i've connected you to each other and

1408
00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:48,160
i've also connected to you to this

1409
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:50,640
location that is going to be important

1410
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,319
later on in the campaign yes right yeah

1411
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,920
yeah no i love that yeah that's great

1412
00:47:52,319 --> 00:47:55,839
because you're giving them free reign

1413
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:59,040
then to invent you know do the world

1414
00:47:55,839 --> 00:48:01,119
building dynamically which is great

1415
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:05,359
so we we've talked briefly about my

1416
00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:07,760
campaign and and other examples of um

1417
00:48:05,359 --> 00:48:09,440
kind of mashing up genres now as i said

1418
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,119
mine are quite

1419
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,800
compartmentalized it's probably the best

1420
00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:14,960
way to do it so i'm like here's the

1421
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,640
goofy one when you're up in this you

1422
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,960
know floating in this high elven city

1423
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,800
it's like dalaran from wow like it's

1424
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,960
there's holographic maps that people can

1425
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,040
look at that are you know appearing out

1426
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,280
and of the of the kiosks and stuff like

1427
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,920
that uh but then once that's over like

1428
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,680
they'll go back to reality and it will

1429
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,960
be some other theme they're going to

1430
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,720
next i think

1431
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,440
i think if memory serves the one they're

1432
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:40,240
going for is like a jurassic park

1433
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:42,319
kind of genre uh a lost island you know

1434
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:44,160
lost to time yeah that's happens to be

1435
00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:47,040
what i've set up there now

1436
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:49,040
but but that you even then you could do

1437
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,880
a little bit of genre matching because

1438
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,880
you've established that these other

1439
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,240
people from these other genres exist in

1440
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,720
your world

1441
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:59,359
so what happens if the dwarves and the

1442
00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:01,440
elves also show up looking for something

1443
00:48:59,359 --> 00:49:03,520
in that you know sort of lost world sort

1444
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,760
of location right and now you've got

1445
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,200
high elven magic and and the the i don't

1446
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,800
know what your doors were like these

1447
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,200
surly dwarves or whatever from

1448
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,280
underground in this dinosaur laden world

1449
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,680
and suddenly you're doing a a fun genre

1450
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,319
matchup yeah no that thank you because

1451
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,440
that is a yeah fantastic idea i and i

1452
00:49:18,319 --> 00:49:21,119
was only thinking of it because i was

1453
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,920
just mentioning torg

1454
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:26,720
i really liked tour guitar

1455
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,319
like i mostly played d d but man do i

1456
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:29,200
love torque eternity it is it is a

1457
00:49:28,319 --> 00:49:30,720
really so i don't know if you're

1458
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,680
familiar with the

1459
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:35,680
the game no no hit me up so

1460
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,920
uh torg attorney was originally i don't

1461
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,800
know late 80s into the 90s it was a game

1462
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:43,839
back then um it was actually that the

1463
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:45,119
name torg it was started off as a as a

1464
00:49:43,839 --> 00:49:46,480
stand-in while they were trying to

1465
00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:49,760
figure out the name for it and it just

1466
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,640
stood for the other role-playing game

1467
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,599
right

1468
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,839
because they were trying to be the

1469
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:55,760
alternative to dnd or whatever right

1470
00:49:53,839 --> 00:49:56,720
but then it stuck and it worked and so

1471
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,200
then

1472
00:49:56,720 --> 00:50:01,520
several years ago somebody else bought

1473
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,359
the license or bought the the ownership

1474
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:06,160
of of the brand

1475
00:50:03,359 --> 00:50:08,720
um i i think actually a guy in germany

1476
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:11,680
bought the the brand and started his

1477
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:13,520
company ulysses spiel and they

1478
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,440
relaunch toward

1479
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,280
freshening up the mechanics making it

1480
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:20,079
all sort of fit together better whatever

1481
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:23,040
uh it is a very sort of cinematic action

1482
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:24,480
story type of game right you can have

1483
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,880
insanely high

1484
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,480
uh like tens and twenties on a d20 roll

1485
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,559
explode okay

1486
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,079
so so you know if you roll a 10 you roll

1487
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:33,680
again and you just and you and you add

1488
00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:35,359
it and if you roll another 10 or a 20

1489
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,280
you can just keep going

1490
00:50:35,359 --> 00:50:40,319
so you can end up with these insane

1491
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:43,680
rolls uh and do crazy things uh but the

1492
00:50:40,319 --> 00:50:45,280
the whole concept of the the the game

1493
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,880
and the setting is

1494
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,559
that you know we're on earth it's no

1495
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,720
earth has you know they call it earth in

1496
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:52,319
the near now they don't really specify a

1497
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:54,559
certain year right it's just always

1498
00:50:52,319 --> 00:50:56,160
slightly ahead of where we are right now

1499
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:57,839
right the technology is a little bit

1500
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:01,040
better than it is right now

1501
00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:03,200
uh so it's it's the near now earth and

1502
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,359
all of a sudden one day

1503
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,359
all of these other realities invaded

1504
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:08,640
earth right there was a coordinated

1505
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:10,240
strike between all these different

1506
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,160
realities and they they all suddenly

1507
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:14,880
invade earth and when they do

1508
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,559
they change the reality of earth in

1509
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,440
these little triangular shapes all over

1510
00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:22,240
the the the map uh into their reality

1511
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:24,880
okay so you so you have your your high

1512
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:26,640
fantasy um sort of classic high fantasy

1513
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:30,160
dwarves and elves and magic and whatever

1514
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:31,440
up in in scandinavia and in england uh

1515
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:35,280
most of the uk

1516
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:37,359
but then just south of that in in france

1517
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,960
is the cyber papacy which is sort of a

1518
00:51:37,359 --> 00:51:40,800
big brother is always watching you but

1519
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,400
people are planted with cybernetics but

1520
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,920
it's all connected to the god net and

1521
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:47,520
the cyber pope is watching what you're

1522
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:50,240
doing right uh and then over in russia

1523
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:52,079
you have thar cold which is it's a

1524
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:53,920
little bit mad max a little bit

1525
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:56,559
hellraiser

1526
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:59,280
cyber demons have invaded and and the

1527
00:51:56,559 --> 00:52:01,200
russians rather than allowing so

1528
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,640
whenever a reality invaded they invaded

1529
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,640
through what's called a maelstrom bridge

1530
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,079
this sort of bridge literal physical

1531
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,359
bridge that appears out of the sky and

1532
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:09,200
just sort of slams down in the middle of

1533
00:52:07,359 --> 00:52:10,480
a place and all these invading armies

1534
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,119
come in right

1535
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:16,559
the russians had saw that

1536
00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:19,440
maelstrom bridge appear in the middle of

1537
00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:20,800
moscow and their solution was nuket

1538
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,400
right right in the middle of their own

1539
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,280
capital city they nuked the males from

1540
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,839
bridge which created this this um you

1541
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,599
know particulate of reality that sort of

1542
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:31,920
washed over and created this mad max

1543
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:33,599
sort of uh environment well the cyber

1544
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,240
demons are trying to hang on to control

1545
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:37,280
there's this un this radioactive but

1546
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:39,839
reality

1547
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:42,720
weird sort of area right uh down in

1548
00:52:39,839 --> 00:52:46,559
egypt you have the nile empire which is

1549
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:50,079
like 1920s pulp era superheroes okay

1550
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:51,119
right and so uh uh dr mobius has invaded

1551
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:53,440
and

1552
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:55,839
uh with his armies that are clearly uh a

1553
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:58,240
metaphor for nazis right but it's all

1554
00:52:55,839 --> 00:53:01,359
sort of pseudo-egyptian

1555
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:05,119
ancient egyptian themed over in india

1556
00:53:01,359 --> 00:53:06,720
you have um aurorsh which is a victorian

1557
00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:09,200
horror setting

1558
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:11,440
and then north america is being invaded

1559
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:16,000
by the living land which is your your

1560
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:18,240
pulp era sort of um lost world dinosaur

1561
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,160
people running around and whatever so so

1562
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,520
i thought of that again when you

1563
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,960
when i when i gave you the advice of

1564
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,960
bring the elves and the dwarves into

1565
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,240
this into your lost world area because

1566
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,280
that's the kind of thing that happens in

1567
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:29,119
torah like

1568
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,599
you're the heroes and you're going after

1569
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:32,400
this this macguffin whatever it is to

1570
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:33,920
help

1571
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,880
fight the war against these reality

1572
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,760
raiders

1573
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,280
but

1574
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,440
inevitably if there's something that's

1575
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,960
that valuable there agents from these

1576
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,480
other realities are going to show up as

1577
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:46,319
well and so you're going to be fighting

1578
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:48,240
you know egyptian nazis uh and and

1579
00:53:46,319 --> 00:53:49,760
horrible evil monsters on dragon back or

1580
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:52,400
whatever at the same time that you're

1581
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:54,480
going after this thing in in oh i i

1582
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:57,040
skipped a whole reality there's uh in

1583
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,240
east asia there's um pan pacifica which

1584
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,760
is

1585
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:03,839
mega corpse and sort of a zombie uh

1586
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,280
plague sort of thing okay they're not

1587
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:07,440
actually zombies but it's kind of like

1588
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,680
that and and they've the mega corps have

1589
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,280
convinced everybody that they're your

1590
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,720
only hope right against this this

1591
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,400
horrible zombie plague when in fact

1592
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,240
they're the ones that have invaded uh

1593
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,559
from another reality so

1594
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:20,559
yeah so it's so it's it's a it is a

1595
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:22,480
whole game built around

1596
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:24,480
mashing up all these genres like

1597
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,400
literally you can go from one reality to

1598
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,200
another reality and it goes from horror

1599
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,400
to

1600
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,880
to superheroes uh through a

1601
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,760
uh traveling through geography right uh

1602
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,520
you just

1603
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,440
physically relocate yourself to another

1604
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,200
place and you can have characters in

1605
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,640
your party that are from these different

1606
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,280
realities as well

1607
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,119
existence and whatever yeah uh or you

1608
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:48,799
could be or you could be a dwarf who's

1609
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:50,559
gone to tharkold and gotten um the the

1610
00:54:48,799 --> 00:54:52,079
so so there's cybernetics in both

1611
00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:54,079
darkhold and the cyberpapacy and the

1612
00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:55,280
cyberpapacy ones are relatively nice but

1613
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:57,359
they allow the

1614
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,400
the bad guys to spy on you whereas the

1615
00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:00,000
ones from thor called from the

1616
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,720
cyberdemons are like well these are

1617
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,720
really like horrific and ugly and and

1618
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:06,559
they they're fueled on pain so you can

1619
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,760
go you know you could be a an elf who's

1620
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:09,760
gone and

1621
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,280
replaced an arm with a laser gun from

1622
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:14,240
thar cold that just hurts every time you

1623
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:16,480
shoot it yeah you can do all kinds of uh

1624
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:18,960
weird mashups with that game

1625
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:21,920
it's a lot of fun yeah that sounds there

1626
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:24,160
and and talking of that reminded me that

1627
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:26,720
i i do myself a disservice actually

1628
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:29,520
because i do have that kind of

1629
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:31,839
subversive mashup in in my dwarfs

1630
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,599
funnily enough my they've done that

1631
00:55:31,839 --> 00:55:35,839
campaign they've done that arc and i

1632
00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:39,359
thought what would be

1633
00:55:35,839 --> 00:55:42,319
often not always but often dwarves in in

1634
00:55:39,359 --> 00:55:43,680
pop culture are seen as um

1635
00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:44,960
very you know uh

1636
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,200
you know strong work ethic very

1637
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:49,520
pragmatic very industrious you know like

1638
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,440
mining and producing

1639
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,319
metal metal metallurgy and all that kind

1640
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,559
of stuff

1641
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:57,200
and i was thinking what is like

1642
00:55:54,559 --> 00:55:58,880
the logical end point of that

1643
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,400
and so basically

1644
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,079
my players like we've got to go to

1645
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,160
dwarven capital and they're like okay

1646
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:06,160
you're sailing through a river that goes

1647
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,520
into a mountain and the docks are

1648
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,480
basically like

1649
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:13,839
deep in the mountain you jump off

1650
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:16,000
and basically i've have it so that it's

1651
00:56:13,839 --> 00:56:18,720
ultra capitalist there's like

1652
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:21,920
everything's like walmarts and targets

1653
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:24,240
and high street shops all run by dwarves

1654
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:26,480
but that's like a logical end point of

1655
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:28,880
like industry just like the industrial

1656
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:31,200
revolution is this kind of late stage

1657
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,799
capitalism we find ourselves in uh and

1658
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,920
so it is very much like there's a bunch

1659
00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:35,680
of dwarven

1660
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,520
young dwarves that are working in these

1661
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,520
supermarkets essentially flight armor so

1662
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,920
there's literally armor on rails

1663
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,599
weapons along the wall like a cookie

1664
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,440
cutter just hundreds and hundreds and

1665
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:47,200
hundreds of these swords so that was

1666
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,760
that was the kind of so my players were

1667
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:52,240
expecting to step into this very like

1668
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,319
you know dirty with like smelting and

1669
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:56,240
steam and

1670
00:56:54,319 --> 00:56:57,760
you know anvils and

1671
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:00,319
furnaces and all that kind of stuff but

1672
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:02,880
it was actually like super like

1673
00:57:00,319 --> 00:57:05,280
clinically clean it was bright

1674
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,359
yeah bright white lights everywhere just

1675
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,200
blasting everybody with the

1676
00:57:07,359 --> 00:57:10,319
super bright white lights

1677
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,160
um

1678
00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:14,880
and that was a mashup of like dwarven

1679
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,000
industry but with like modern kind of

1680
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,280
like the yeah

1681
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,200
the logical endpoint of that and that

1682
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,359
was uh it was very fun to run from a

1683
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:23,119
dm's perspective and i'm i'm

1684
00:57:21,359 --> 00:57:24,400
fairly certain my players enjoyed their

1685
00:57:23,119 --> 00:57:27,359
time

1686
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:29,520
well and and and what does

1687
00:57:27,359 --> 00:57:31,119
late stage capitalism do better than

1688
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,880
look for new opportunities elsewhere in

1689
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:34,240
the world to go and exploit resources in

1690
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,079
those places right

1691
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,920
precisely why when you said that i was

1692
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:41,119
like that actually works way better than

1693
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:43,359
jeff realizes it

1694
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:45,200
yeah so they're planning to go there on

1695
00:57:43,359 --> 00:57:46,799
ship and i can have them as they're

1696
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,160
approaching their dog point i might have

1697
00:57:46,799 --> 00:57:49,680
like little um

1698
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,200
you know like in like tarzan where they

1699
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,640
have the little they have little science

1700
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,160
bases like deep in the jungle there

1701
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,760
might be one for the elves and then they

1702
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,440
pass they you know further down the

1703
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:00,000
coast they see one with the dwarves and

1704
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,359
the players are going to be like oh okay

1705
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,480
there's this you know there's more stuff

1706
00:58:01,359 --> 00:58:04,319
happening here maybe we should go and

1707
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,400
investigate and uh yeah different all

1708
00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:08,079
these different genres you created

1709
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,559
all are all in one world and they can

1710
00:58:08,079 --> 00:58:12,400
show up right yeah that would be that's

1711
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:14,280
that's pretty much what i

1712
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,400
need to do to break down that

1713
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,000
compartmentalization a little bit more

1714
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,680
because i think

1715
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,520
that it's very easy for my players to be

1716
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,839
like well you know slam the book chat on

1717
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,920
that chapter moving on god you know it's

1718
00:58:23,839 --> 00:58:27,520
that book is burning but we forget that

1719
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,079
book's over so we can just forget about

1720
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:32,070
it and i need to be like no

1721
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:34,480
there are consequences to your actions

1722
00:58:32,070 --> 00:58:35,440
[Laughter]

1723
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,880
is there anything that you wanted to

1724
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,799
talk about that we might have missed in

1725
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,960
today's discussion i mean i only had one

1726
00:58:38,799 --> 00:58:43,119
other thing sort of in my in my bullet

1727
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,040
point notes that that we could bring up

1728
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:48,160
and that's the idea of mashing up

1729
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:50,400
monsters um can it be a lot of fun too

1730
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:52,559
uh you know uh and and sometimes you'll

1731
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,400
see published uh you know collections of

1732
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:57,119
monsters or monster manuals there'll be

1733
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,240
mashups of monsters and whatever but um

1734
00:58:57,119 --> 00:58:59,440
you know i guess i would just tell

1735
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,200
people like if you're looking if you're

1736
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,119
a dm and you're looking to surprise your

1737
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:06,079
players

1738
00:59:03,119 --> 00:59:08,880
think to yourself what would happen if

1739
00:59:06,079 --> 00:59:10,160
a i don't know so let's say a troll

1740
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,200
and a

1741
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,160
i don't know

1742
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:16,400
uh kuatoa were mashed up into the same

1743
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,599
sort of thing right uh you know what

1744
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,680
happens when they're fighting the the

1745
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:21,680
legion of kuwatoa and then suddenly they

1746
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,720
they find the the sort of big chieftain

1747
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:26,240
who starts regenerating and won't die

1748
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,839
and the only thing that can stop the

1749
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,720
regeneration is fire but you're under

1750
00:59:27,839 --> 00:59:30,319
water

1751
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,359
you know

1752
00:59:30,319 --> 00:59:32,559
you know

1753
00:59:31,359 --> 00:59:33,760
there's all kinds of things you can do

1754
00:59:32,559 --> 00:59:35,920
with with that as well i mean there's

1755
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,880
there's as many combinations as there

1756
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,720
are

1757
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,319
monsters that exist in different books

1758
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,000
right uh that you can be like well what

1759
00:59:40,319 --> 00:59:43,440
happens if you take some of the features

1760
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,960
from this monster and match them up with

1761
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,359
that monster and

1762
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:49,440
create a whole new thing that that isn't

1763
00:59:47,359 --> 00:59:50,880
even necessarily just a derivative of a

1764
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,440
thing but just a completely different

1765
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,640
monster um you know your balance is all

1766
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,920
going to still kind of be there

1767
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,559
especially if you pick two things that

1768
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,240
are relatively equal in cr but it's a

1769
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:02,240
fun way to sort of surprise your players

1770
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,000
because like hey i you know you got that

1771
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:06,000
player who's who's memorized the monster

1772
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,079
manual but like this isn't a thing from

1773
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,440
the monster manual yeah actually it is

1774
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:11,040
it's just two things for the monster

1775
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,000
manual

1776
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,319
so

1777
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,680
yeah that's a it's a very good tip and

1778
01:00:14,319 --> 01:00:17,359
something again i probably need to do

1779
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,280
more of that that takes a little that

1780
01:00:17,359 --> 01:00:21,040
takes a little more forethought and yeah

1781
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,319
i don't like to do that like on the fly

1782
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,680
because then you don't know what you're

1783
01:00:22,319 --> 01:00:25,520
going to get but like every now and then

1784
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,559
when you want to throw a curveball at

1785
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,440
them or

1786
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:29,280
give them something that they're not

1787
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,200
expecting or you need you need something

1788
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,480
to make the the big boss work or you're

1789
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,079
just creating

1790
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,200
sort of this creature that that you want

1791
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:38,160
to sort of be a

1792
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,880
a touchstone or a keystone moment yeah

1793
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,040
that

1794
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,680
can can really sort of bring the session

1795
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,720
to life or whatever um you can mash

1796
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,760
something up to give them something

1797
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,760
unique

1798
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,799
on on that same vein and i think we

1799
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,319
talked about it way back when we

1800
01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:52,640
arranged this was

1801
01:00:50,319 --> 01:00:53,760
uh about multi-classing and then

1802
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,599
i'm going to keep this short but the

1803
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,280
question i want to level at you and it

1804
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:58,799
is one that i've heard

1805
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,119
on on the twitter verse a couple of

1806
01:00:58,799 --> 01:01:03,839
times recently around people debating

1807
01:01:01,119 --> 01:01:06,640
the validity of a

1808
01:01:03,839 --> 01:01:08,400
like a paladin and warlock multi-class

1809
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,400
sure often both of those classes

1810
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:12,799
themselves usually regarded you know

1811
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:14,319
pretty top tier just stand alone for

1812
01:01:12,799 --> 01:01:16,799
various reasons so

1813
01:01:14,319 --> 01:01:17,839
but a lot of the criticism is that like

1814
01:01:16,799 --> 01:01:21,359
are they just they're just you know

1815
01:01:17,839 --> 01:01:22,880
thematically incompatible and i wonder

1816
01:01:21,359 --> 01:01:24,480
i would argue if you think it's

1817
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,640
thematically incompatible that you need

1818
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,400
to work on your creativity

1819
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,240
i can tell some sort of crazy story

1820
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,839
where that makes sense and that's kind

1821
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:34,000
of the fun right take something that

1822
01:01:31,839 --> 01:01:36,720
seems incompatible and then figure out

1823
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:39,599
how to make it work i mean give yourself

1824
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:41,839
those those creative restraints

1825
01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:44,240
and and then try to bust through them

1826
01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:46,480
like that's that's half the fun right

1827
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:49,359
now you i mean i get where that's coming

1828
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:52,720
from right the the warlock and the and

1829
01:01:49,359 --> 01:01:54,559
the paladin are not inherently

1830
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:56,480
compatible because they both serve a

1831
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:58,240
master and

1832
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:01,520
the way those masters work out they're

1833
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:03,200
probably not the same master right

1834
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,720
but i can certainly

1835
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,640
come up with something to make that work

1836
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,079
right where there's a will there's a way

1837
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:10,559
i like to say i think i think there's

1838
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:12,079
probably if you really unless unless the

1839
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:14,000
setting was like

1840
01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:16,079
you know focused on the oaths of

1841
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,000
paladins you know really strongly then

1842
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:19,039
then maybe that's maybe pushing that

1843
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,599
boundary

1844
01:02:19,039 --> 01:02:24,400
i had um in my

1845
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:26,559
cursive straw water deep campaign

1846
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,079
i had a um

1847
01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:30,559
was it divine

1848
01:02:28,079 --> 01:02:32,640
sorcerer yeah divine soul i think yeah

1849
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:33,440
divine soul sorcerer

1850
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,480
who

1851
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:38,960
picked up like a a a dark

1852
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:41,440
warlock pact along the way so on one

1853
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,280
hand like they have this guardian angel

1854
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,960
and and they're very they have this very

1855
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:47,599
sort of celestial

1856
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,039
theming to him and whatever um

1857
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:50,559
but yet

1858
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:52,880
taking this dark

1859
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:54,960
warlock pact made a lot of sense in the

1860
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,960
story the character is also an asamar so

1861
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:59,280
they're part celestial you know their

1862
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,520
divine soul you know they've got all

1863
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,520
this sort of celestial goody goody stuff

1864
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:05,520
going on

1865
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,280
but when a dark power starts whispering

1866
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,280
in your mind and offering you new

1867
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,160
abilities to save the world and whatever

1868
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,720
like

1869
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:14,240
that that starts off making sense like

1870
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,640
if i can have the power to save the

1871
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:19,119
world why would i turn that down yeah it

1872
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,720
just slowly becomes darker and darker as

1873
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:22,240
it goes because

1874
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:25,119
horrible evil things like the dark

1875
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,640
powers or lovecraftian creatures or

1876
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:28,799
whatever like

1877
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:30,480
they've got time they can will or even

1878
01:03:28,799 --> 01:03:31,920
devils right they can whittle you down

1879
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:34,160
it can be they can be giving you

1880
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:37,119
everything you want at the beginning

1881
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,799
and and whittle you down uh uh and and

1882
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:40,400
slowly get you to make little

1883
01:03:38,799 --> 01:03:42,319
compromises that then become

1884
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,520
medium-sized compromises and then you

1885
01:03:42,319 --> 01:03:44,799
know you then you have to make a

1886
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,400
decision like am i really going to make

1887
01:03:44,799 --> 01:03:47,839
this compromise at what point do i cross

1888
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,599
a line yeah

1889
01:03:47,839 --> 01:03:51,839
sunk sunk cost fallacy well i've made

1890
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:54,000
all these compromises so far so right

1891
01:03:51,839 --> 01:03:55,440
what's one more so so that becomes i

1892
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,359
mean taking something that feels

1893
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:59,440
impossible but building a story around

1894
01:03:57,359 --> 01:04:00,400
it to make it make sense and make it

1895
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,760
work

1896
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,039
that's that's i don't know that's the

1897
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,680
most fun kind of stories to tell in the

1898
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:07,119
india my experience

1899
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:09,119
absolutely well thank you for answering

1900
01:04:07,119 --> 01:04:10,839
that question and providing such a good

1901
01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:13,680
end to the episode

1902
01:04:10,839 --> 01:04:14,799
um is there anything you would like to

1903
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,039
promote

1904
01:04:14,799 --> 01:04:18,720
uh i i tell people if they want to hear

1905
01:04:17,039 --> 01:04:21,680
more from me i i've been running a

1906
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:23,599
podcast for 15 years the tome show so

1907
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,920
far as i can tell it is the longest

1908
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:28,319
continuously running dnd podcast around

1909
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,960
um i think the only dnd podcast i can

1910
01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:33,520
think of that started before us was d d

1911
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:36,160
focused anyway uh was the official dmd

1912
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:38,559
podcast but they've completely changed

1913
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:40,640
hosts like three times and changed names

1914
01:04:38,559 --> 01:04:41,760
several times so i'm going to say that

1915
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,079
it's a different podcast and that we're

1916
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:45,280
older than them so

1917
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:47,200
so yeah we've been doing a lot we've

1918
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:49,200
been podcasting there for a long time

1919
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,440
thetomeshow.com is where you can find

1920
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:53,119
the podcast uh you can find the show on

1921
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:56,079
twitter as well it is at the tome show

1922
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:58,319
and i am at squatch squuach uh on

1923
01:04:56,079 --> 01:04:59,680
twitter as well awesome well all that's

1924
01:04:58,319 --> 01:05:01,359
left to say is thank you ever so much

1925
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,559
for for joining us today jeff that's a

1926
01:05:01,359 --> 01:05:03,760
really interesting and insightful

1927
01:05:02,559 --> 01:05:06,319
conversation

1928
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:08,799
yeah it was fun thanks a lot no worries

1929
01:05:06,319 --> 01:05:10,160
thank you everybody to listening at home

1930
01:05:08,799 --> 01:05:11,200
uh the tome show and all the jeff's

1931
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,760
socials will be in the episode

1932
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,400
description as per usual so i would

1933
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:18,319
encourage you to check them all out i

1934
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,559
gotta set a reminder for me to message

1935
01:05:18,319 --> 01:05:22,400
jeff in 14 years when i'll also be my

1936
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:24,799
15-year anniversary of this show just so

1937
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,720
i can then i'll be doing it for like 29

1938
01:05:24,799 --> 01:05:30,160
years

1939
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:32,880
i'll be in my 60s by then but yeah

1940
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:34,160
uh yeah so as usual

1941
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,359
please please check out one of jeff's

1942
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,400
stuff and check everything in the

1943
01:05:35,359 --> 01:05:39,039
episode description

1944
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:41,599
otherwise thank you all for listening

1945
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:43,200
and good night

1946
01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:45,599
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1947
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:48,160
outs once again thank you to matt street

1948
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:49,039
at mpstreet88 on twitter for supporting

1949
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,319
the show

1950
01:05:49,039 --> 01:05:53,319
if you need support running your

1951
01:05:50,319 --> 01:05:55,520
personal or business schedule head to

1952
01:05:53,319 --> 01:05:57,200
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1953
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,359
make that difference between should do

1954
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,200
and done boss it better with support

1955
01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:03,440
from cat who will help you get back that

1956
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,960
essential time you've been searching for

1957
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,799
if you would like to support what we do

1958
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:09,520
and get four shout outs a month head

1959
01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:11,039
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1960
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:13,680
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1961
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:16,680
kofi.com thinking critically thank you

1962
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,680
bye

1963
01:06:16,810 --> 01:06:25,770
[Applause]

1964
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:29,039
[Music]

1965
01:06:25,770 --> 01:06:29,039
[Applause]

1966
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:40,530
[Music]

Jeff Greiner Profile Photo

Jeff Greiner

Founder

Jeff has been podcasting about D&D since 2006 as the founder of The Tome Show. He’s also a professor of education, a father, a certified barbecue judge, and a forever DM.