Integrity

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welcome thinkers to season 4 episode 20

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of thinking critically a DND discussion

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as usual

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this is a video podcast now so check us

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out on Spotify or on YouTube to see my

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quote unquote Studio

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couple of important dates for your

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Diaries

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firstly thinking critically will be at

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the RPG gaming in faversham on the 18th

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and 19th date TBC but come down to a

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lovely part of the UK The Garden of

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England and come see uh and be on the

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show as well

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the following week on Friday the 24th of

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March will be my 12 hour charity stream

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second year in a row really got some big

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targets got lots of fun stuff lined up

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lots of good games lots of good

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challenges and forfeits and all sorts of

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other painful things for me so if you

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want to see me play a bunch of games all

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for a great cause children's hospice

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charity in the UK I'd love to see you

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come and pop down to the stream Twitter

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TV slash

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think crit DND as with all my socials

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and finally obviously it'll be remiss of

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me not to mention dungeons Dyson dudes

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if you're listening to this the day it

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drops go and check out our new episode

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on

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ddnd pod don't use Dyson dudes podcast

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and also just dropped on the same day

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and it is a hello like I I was smiling

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today at the snippet we posted on

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Instagram and it was hilarious so please

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go check it out a lot of laughs lots of

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fun and yeah swell time with my mates

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so go and check that out otherwise

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let's go on with the show

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and today I'm joined by Ben Ewan and

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Luke from the Baltic star thank you ever

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so much for joining us today guys can

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you tell us a little bit about

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yourselves

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thank you very much for having us we are

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the boys from the Baltic star we're

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three guys that all live in the same

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town together and uh we used to play all

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around the table together until we

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decided to go online and we've lost that

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that closeness and now all we ever do is

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look at each other through a screen

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sadly uh my name's Luke

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um I'm there hello

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um I'm one of the three of us and I get

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to play like twice a week with uh two

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wonderful people which are you and and

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uh Ben and normally

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um on our streams I'd give a big

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ridiculous introduction but people

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listening and watching that know us and

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they let us get away with a lot so first

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and I feel we need to earn the respect

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of your of your listeners before we do

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such a thing so all I'll say is Ben is a

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fantastic traveler GM Ewan is a

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magnificent man with a beautiful

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mustache and almost as beautiful as

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yours actually and it's a pleasure for

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all three of us

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it's my pleasure to have you and none of

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them had to interrupt you so I think

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that's a success right I was tempted at

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one point but no I held back

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awesome well it's it is indeed my

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pleasure to have you on the show I mean

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you talk about earning your perspective

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my guess it's you're talking to me right

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there's not a high bar to

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hit so no that's fine although it's a

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very good segue onto today's topic which

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is integrity so what does that mean to

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you guys in the DND and wider TT RPG

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framework

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well I should point out um in in all

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fairness we don't play D D on stream or

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we haven't done I should say it's not

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that we wouldn't it's just that we've

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never we've never done so we have played

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a little bit of d d back in the long ago

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before we um before we streamed and

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I started out with DND

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you know really when when these things

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were carved on Stone tablets and and you

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had to

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um

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you know use Papyrus to mark your hit

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point

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um so but but that that's a that's a

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long time ago but we do play a lot of

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different ttrpgs we started out as a

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group playing traveler and we've played

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a couple of different versions of that

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but we've played all sorts of weird ones

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and I was thinking about when you when

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he said Integrity I was thinking about

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the fact that Travelers like a skill

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based system so I don't think there's a

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skill for integrity so none of us have

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like plus ones or minus ones or anything

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in it um

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which is weird in a skill based system

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if you if you find something that

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doesn't have a skill you're kind of

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racking your brains it happens to me all

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the time it actually happened last night

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we don't have a skill for that I have no

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idea what to do here

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yeah I suppose

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for me

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um

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Integrity in ttrpg terms is about

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playing the character that you're

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playing or representing as a as a GM

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with some some honesty to the character

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themselves

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and of course being honest with dice

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rolls and things like that you

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I'm not a believer in in fudging dice

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rolls if they go bad they go bad that's

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life right that is my my first

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notes for today's topic was Integrity

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synonym of honesty hyphen fudging that

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was the first thing when it came to

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honesty I was like fudging dice so

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that's I think that's a really great one

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because obviously it goes around and

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around and the The Social Network ttrpg

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discourse every six weeks or so is the

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fudging dice topic so how do the other

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guys feel on that then Ben's made his

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he's put his his Banner in the ground

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honestly we'd rather fail a role because

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a lot of the time it's a lot more

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interesting anyway

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so I think there's a lot of trust that

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we don't necessarily need to be afraid

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of failing a rule

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it's just

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a thing that happens and it takes

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yeah yeah yeah but Ben is very good at

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helping us fail forwards I feel

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um

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I think last night you kept failing

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rolls

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and it got good

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yeah failing doesn't have to mean

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catastrophe it can mean you know a

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setback rather than disaster

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so I've got these um

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sorry I've got these dice that um they

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always mock me for

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um talking about integrity rolling

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though so I've got these dice that seem

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took that I'm never getting them tested

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because they seem to roll they're really

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cheap guys and they roll High a lot

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which in traveler is excellent and um

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so sometimes I feel like anyone watching

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the stream might be like oh is he is he

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really doing it and I always have to say

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no these are actually my dice so for

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other games but to give them a chance

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when I'm dming I'll use other dice that

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well that tend to roll lower I don't

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know why you know how everyone has that

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feel with their dice it's all in the

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mind I think most of the time but you

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know it's the whole um calling them off

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forming them up putting them in a tub

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changing your device and that but um

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yeah because it's a game where dice is

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so Central to it you know any role play

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game really

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um that concept of the fudge is there

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damn much cheating really involved you

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know at times I think it's it's a

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central point really

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it's a weird thing to do though I think

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because there's no winner in a ttrpg so

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you're not cheating anybody else you're

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just cheating yourself

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um yeah that is it's nice to see that

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obviously all of you on the same page

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which is good because often you have

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players and tables who are uh opposed in

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their view on fudging yeah in fact I'm

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one of my tables that I'm a player in

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I would say we disagree on the

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fundamental nature from it from a Dean's

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perspective uh the theme of that game is

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I want to say a slave to the story

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because it has negative connotations but

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it's very dedicated to there being a

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very strong fulfilling Arc and narrative

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and one fatal crit at level one is gonna

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completely derail that so he's very much

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like nope we should I'd rather we will

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have fun and enjoy the story together

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and I'm like yeah but dying at level one

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is the fun for me

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well actually when you talk about

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character death there is it's not a

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fudge uh but there is one thing I do for

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our campaign

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but it's if you like pre-agreed and

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understood

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um I have this

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thing I've done since I was at school if

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you're dealing with a single Adventure

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where where characters are

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interchangeable it's not a problem

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with a campaign I usually effectively

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give somebody

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one

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get out of jail free if the if the role

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would kill them and in a game like

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traveler it's very deadly a character

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can die on a single roll of a die

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there's enough there's no sense of

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Resurrection or anything like that so if

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it goes wrong then you can die

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immediately and instantly and often

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without even having a chance to react so

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with traveler and any game like that

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where it really can come down to just

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one role

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no death saves no resurrections nothing

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you

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um I think you do have to allow them one

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chance to turn that into an unfortunate

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setback without instant death

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but I only ever allow the one

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and we've only hit it I think once

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haven't we in our entire campaign uh one

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of Luke's characters uh Soraya very

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nearly got eaten by an enormous shark

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and the the role went in and effectively

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I I allowed her one chance to haul

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herself out of the water and onto the

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boat which she made but if she hadn't

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that would have been it I think you

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always say that if it was an NPC that

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would have been it

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but they're they're not the

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they're not the main focus of the story

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are they really you know NPCs come and

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go and exactly they're not driving the

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story

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I think it's hard when we when you start

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streaming campaigns and that there's

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pressure people are watching for an

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ongoing story with people we we do play

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a little bit differently now that we

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stream but I don't think it's actually

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changed the tone of what we do or how we

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do it it's just made us a little bit

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more focused because we used to sort of

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without really thinking about it stop

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play altogether for 20 minutes and

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randomly talk about other things and

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then go back to the game and now now

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we're streaming we're a bit more

276
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,660
directed towards what we're actually

277
00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:41,399
doing we don't do that so much

278
00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:43,620
I was just going to say that I think Ben

279
00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:47,519
Ben hit a key point

280
00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:49,800
quite quite early on that uh it's

281
00:10:47,519 --> 00:10:52,260
communication you know we've we've all

282
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,060
agreed on this beforehand and as long as

283
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:56,279
everybody communicates well

284
00:10:54,060 --> 00:10:58,320
and you're all on the same page then uh

285
00:10:56,279 --> 00:10:59,399
it solves a lot of issues

286
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,300
because you know it's all about having

287
00:10:59,399 --> 00:11:02,100
fun

288
00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:04,380
so there's no right or wrong way to play

289
00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:06,540
right so if you all agreed that you you

290
00:11:04,380 --> 00:11:08,279
are okay with the odd fudge of a dice

291
00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:10,200
that that's perfectly fine

292
00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:12,120
trying to look through my my back

293
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,760
catalog of episodes to see if I've got

294
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,980
one on communication as the title and I

295
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,760
I'm now ashamed to say I don't think I

296
00:11:16,980 --> 00:11:19,620
do

297
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:23,339
well there you go we've helped you out

298
00:11:19,620 --> 00:11:25,019
the next time you have uh or or I'm

299
00:11:23,339 --> 00:11:26,640
forgetting and somebody's very insulted

300
00:11:25,019 --> 00:11:29,600
now uh that I've forgotten their episode

301
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,600
but either way

302
00:11:30,420 --> 00:11:34,500
one thing I wanted to say on that note

303
00:11:32,339 --> 00:11:36,480
is because you were talking about how in

304
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:39,000
traveler like it's

305
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,279
apparently a lot more can be a lot more

306
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,680
lethal in terms of the you know one roll

307
00:11:41,279 --> 00:11:45,480
of the dice can do it and obviously my

308
00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:48,000
experience in DND is

309
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:51,420
typically you know you've got maybe like

310
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:54,420
two saves or two rolls before you're

311
00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:56,579
potentially there or maybe even

312
00:11:54,420 --> 00:11:59,100
at lower levels three four five maybe

313
00:11:56,579 --> 00:12:01,740
before you die die die for good so it's

314
00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:04,200
interesting there how the mechanics of

315
00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:05,579
the system will drive

316
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,140
like this is a different way of

317
00:12:05,579 --> 00:12:09,300
approaching fudging dice like this weird

318
00:12:07,140 --> 00:12:11,040
meta discussion is driven that you know

319
00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:12,600
your your viewpoint on it is driven from

320
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,860
the systems that you're playing it's

321
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,180
that's I've not really thought about it

322
00:12:13,860 --> 00:12:16,380
you know maybe that's closed-minded of

323
00:12:15,180 --> 00:12:18,899
me but it's quite an interesting take on

324
00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:20,700
that direction of

325
00:12:18,899 --> 00:12:22,440
I approach that topic differently

326
00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:24,060
because of the games we play it's quite

327
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,459
an interesting uh

328
00:12:24,060 --> 00:12:27,959
point of discussion there I think it's a

329
00:12:26,459 --> 00:12:30,120
fair point actually

330
00:12:27,959 --> 00:12:32,820
um if you if you're playing a system

331
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:36,240
which has supernatural abilities to save

332
00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:37,800
lives and restore them and

333
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,019
something like DND where you do have

334
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,339
potentially death saves and you know the

335
00:12:40,019 --> 00:12:43,380
chance to get yourself out of it and

336
00:12:41,339 --> 00:12:46,560
someone can come along even when you're

337
00:12:43,380 --> 00:12:48,660
kind of technically dead and just apply

338
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:49,980
a relatively simple process to get you

339
00:12:48,660 --> 00:12:53,339
back on your feet

340
00:12:49,980 --> 00:12:57,959
even if weak still back on your feet

341
00:12:53,339 --> 00:13:00,959
um that that becomes a much

342
00:12:57,959 --> 00:13:02,820
a much easier thing to say no fudging

343
00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:05,100
we're going to play it completely by the

344
00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:07,200
rules because the rules

345
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:09,600
um they support that

346
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,980
they support that degree of that degree

347
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,839
of flexibility

348
00:13:10,980 --> 00:13:16,019
traveler is

349
00:13:12,839 --> 00:13:17,820
very different it's it's a science

350
00:13:16,019 --> 00:13:19,680
fiction game so if you get hit by a

351
00:13:17,820 --> 00:13:21,660
powerful enough weapon and your armor

352
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:23,040
isn't up to it then that's it you're

353
00:13:21,660 --> 00:13:25,980
annihilated

354
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,480
and early on we actually lost this was

355
00:13:25,980 --> 00:13:29,880
before we started streaming when we were

356
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:33,300
playing the campaign just us we lost an

357
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:35,760
NPC and you could argue that he was lost

358
00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:38,940
to a a shot from a high power weapon but

359
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,380
you could also argue he was lost because

360
00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:43,019
he died

361
00:13:40,380 --> 00:13:45,360
through a lousy healing role basically a

362
00:13:43,019 --> 00:13:46,440
lousy med check you never let me lift

363
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:51,120
this down

364
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:52,200
yeah so on on this med check

365
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,540
um

366
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,399
the the guys rolled a three and

367
00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:58,560
therefore did more harm to him while

368
00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:59,940
trying to save his life and stabilize

369
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,920
him

370
00:13:59,940 --> 00:14:04,260
um but even if they had stabilized him

371
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,060
he would have spent weeks and weeks

372
00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:08,399
recovering and getting his strength back

373
00:14:06,060 --> 00:14:10,200
because again it's based on a science

374
00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:13,620
fiction Universe which is supposed to be

375
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:15,360
cold and hard and unfriendly we've all

376
00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:16,740
had I think every game must have had

377
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,240
that moment where

378
00:14:16,740 --> 00:14:22,320
character goes to do like chest

379
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,639
compressions and they like slip and you

380
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,620
know punch them in the throat or

381
00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:27,300
something you know they roll low enough

382
00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:31,339
and that's that whoops I've made this

383
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:31,339
terrible situation far worse

384
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:38,820
so I I agree with with you guys in that

385
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,740
I'm against it I have funnily enough an

386
00:14:38,820 --> 00:14:43,139
episode I do have a topic on is fudging

387
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:45,180
uh which was talked about this in a lot

388
00:14:43,139 --> 00:14:46,800
more detail but that really I was

389
00:14:45,180 --> 00:14:48,420
already kind of it didn't sit well with

390
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,040
me because of the Integrity side of

391
00:14:48,420 --> 00:14:54,920
things because of the like it feels

392
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:57,779
dishonest to lie to my friends

393
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,620
other than that having that episode and

394
00:14:57,779 --> 00:15:00,420
speaking to the guy on that episode

395
00:14:58,620 --> 00:15:03,000
really put it in plain view of like

396
00:15:00,420 --> 00:15:04,560
there are especially again with the DND

397
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,420
focus in that one but there are systems

398
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,120
in place or there are methodologies like

399
00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:12,480
fail forward that can soften the blow of

400
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:15,000
those poor roles and as you said

401
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,199
sometimes there's just no getting away

402
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,860
from

403
00:15:16,199 --> 00:15:22,860
a series of of pool roles

404
00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:24,240
um I'm just spent at the time of

405
00:15:22,860 --> 00:15:25,680
recording recording in the evening I've

406
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,779
just spent

407
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,459
six seven hours playing a board game

408
00:15:27,779 --> 00:15:31,620
with my friends I'm like they had a half

409
00:15:29,459 --> 00:15:33,540
an hour cooldown to reset my brain and

410
00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:35,880
come out of that and that's all card

411
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:38,940
based from modifiers rather than dice

412
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:41,459
based we're playing Frost Haven and we

413
00:15:38,940 --> 00:15:43,620
had a bunch of allies and we actually

414
00:15:41,459 --> 00:15:45,899
failed the first time the first attempt

415
00:15:43,620 --> 00:15:47,880
at the scenario because the first bunch

416
00:15:45,899 --> 00:15:50,040
of card flips

417
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,139
our allies just sat there sucking their

418
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,880
thumbs doing nothing useful whatsoever

419
00:15:52,139 --> 00:15:55,079
leaving all the heavy lifting to us and

420
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,120
we were like

421
00:15:55,079 --> 00:15:58,500
ah well they just got peppered by the

422
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,959
archers on the back line of the enemies

423
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:02,459
like pincushions and we just the

424
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:04,620
scenario just fell apart

425
00:16:02,459 --> 00:16:06,720
so let's let's rewind the clock we'll

426
00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:08,940
start we'll start again and we played

427
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,380
better made better choices but also our

428
00:16:08,940 --> 00:16:13,920
allies actually did something bloody

429
00:16:10,380 --> 00:16:15,959
useful which was I think thankfully it

430
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,240
it allowed us to go and and finish the

431
00:16:15,959 --> 00:16:19,680
scenario successfully but that first one

432
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,600
was just the first loss we've had in

433
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,680
quite a long time and it's just like

434
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,560
well

435
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,760
we could have said well maybe they do

436
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,279
something different on their turn or

437
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:32,579
maybe they hear that that doing nothing

438
00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:35,040
turns into doing something useful but

439
00:16:32,579 --> 00:16:36,899
might as well not play the game if we're

440
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,300
gonna do that at that point that's it

441
00:16:36,899 --> 00:16:41,940
and when you've succeeded it meant more

442
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:43,800
afterwards right like that happens I've

443
00:16:41,940 --> 00:16:45,600
got a lot of ball games in my past as

444
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,720
well so board games are a lot easier to

445
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:52,019
reset in that regard I guess and so it's

446
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,699
it's a really good way to learn about

447
00:16:52,019 --> 00:16:55,380
um playing properly I guess properly

448
00:16:53,699 --> 00:16:57,899
inverted commas you know fairly not

449
00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:59,759
fudging so and so on because there's a

450
00:16:57,899 --> 00:17:01,800
lot especially solo ball games I'll sit

451
00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:03,360
there and you're five minutes in and

452
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,040
you're like oh

453
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,319
there's nothing to do now and it's so

454
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,780
easy to go oh what if instead of that

455
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:11,579
three it was just a two and now I can

456
00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:12,839
carry on the game but then there's no

457
00:17:11,579 --> 00:17:15,000
sense of

458
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:17,819
success there's no sense of yeah yeah

459
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,740
you know which which you guys no doubt

460
00:17:17,819 --> 00:17:21,959
got when you played through again and

461
00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:23,179
you like you were taking it to the enemy

462
00:17:21,959 --> 00:17:26,339
a bit more you know

463
00:17:23,179 --> 00:17:27,360
yeah absolutely so I think we should

464
00:17:26,339 --> 00:17:29,520
probably move on because otherwise we

465
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:31,440
could talk about that phages fudging

466
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,520
Dice and I mean we've already probably

467
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:37,580
alienated half my audience anyway

468
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:39,900
done an episode apparently so indeed

469
00:17:37,580 --> 00:17:41,700
well you get you get to a point when

470
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:45,840
you're going through your thesaurus

471
00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:47,640
there's a lot of overlapping but that

472
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,020
the the good beauty is you get different

473
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,820
perspectives from from those of

474
00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:52,740
different people from uh yeah those are

475
00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:54,960
different experiences so that's great

476
00:17:52,740 --> 00:17:56,940
one thing now you might have to educate

477
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,700
me here and excuse Mega it's on on on

478
00:17:56,940 --> 00:18:01,980
Traveler but is it ostensibly it

479
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:04,799
still a ttrpg right on the face of

480
00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:06,660
things right yes yes it is okay so

481
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:09,059
there's there's still play characters

482
00:18:06,660 --> 00:18:12,720
who are working towards some goal maybe

483
00:18:09,059 --> 00:18:16,200
there's some antagonistic Force perhaps

484
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:19,320
yes the the rule the original traveler

485
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,419
so just a bit of background here back in

486
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,140
the 70s uh traveler was one of the

487
00:18:21,419 --> 00:18:29,520
really early ttrpgs and it was the first

488
00:18:25,140 --> 00:18:33,960
of the science fiction once and

489
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:36,600
it was intended originally

490
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,220
um to allow you to

491
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,900
play

492
00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:42,120
any

493
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:44,580
uh science fiction Universe you knew

494
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:47,340
about or had seen or read so it had

495
00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:49,980
enough in it to allow you to be a

496
00:18:47,340 --> 00:18:51,240
character in the alien franchise though

497
00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:54,240
that actually wouldn't start for another

498
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:56,039
couple of years or in Star Wars or in

499
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,960
Star Trek or whatever it had it had

500
00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:59,400
enough technological levers that you

501
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,900
could do all of that

502
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,900
however

503
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:07,100
as is inevitable in these things I think

504
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:10,919
and d d players will you know remember

505
00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:12,780
uh the arrival of various worlds and

506
00:19:10,919 --> 00:19:15,840
Realms that you could play in

507
00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:18,480
traveler eventually needed its own

508
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,580
universe and in traveler's case this is

509
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,559
the universe of the third Imperium and

510
00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:24,240
there's a vast amount of material

511
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:27,059
associated with that

512
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:29,520
so when traveler came out as a published

513
00:19:27,059 --> 00:19:30,780
version it included elements of the

514
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,419
third Imperium and some background

515
00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:34,980
information but very very light and over

516
00:19:33,419 --> 00:19:37,679
time the third Imperium has become

517
00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:39,780
completely dominant much more so I think

518
00:19:37,679 --> 00:19:44,220
than any of the individual worlds that

519
00:19:39,780 --> 00:19:46,500
went into the DND space DND had this

520
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:49,440
sense of a sort of generic world that

521
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,820
was almost absent from the rules which

522
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,480
just was

523
00:19:50,820 --> 00:19:56,400
ordinary European fantasy back then but

524
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,140
you could get Gray Hawk and you could

525
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,580
get ravenloft and you know these were

526
00:19:58,140 --> 00:20:00,780
slightly different slightly different

527
00:19:59,580 --> 00:20:02,820
environments

528
00:20:00,780 --> 00:20:04,620
traveler never really had that because

529
00:20:02,820 --> 00:20:06,720
it had to have a way of tying all the

530
00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:07,980
technology together and coming up with a

531
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,559
reason why there were different

532
00:20:07,980 --> 00:20:13,980
technological levels in different places

533
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:17,280
so it was a little bit different but it

534
00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:19,200
is at its heart just a tabletop RPG

535
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,660
where you roll dice and you create

536
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,240
characters it's skill based rather than

537
00:20:21,660 --> 00:20:25,380
stat based for the most part and

538
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,260
therefore there are a lot of different

539
00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:30,539
combinations of roles that you end up

540
00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:34,020
making in order to determine your

541
00:20:30,539 --> 00:20:36,720
success rate and it is

542
00:20:34,020 --> 00:20:40,500
an attempt to be reasonably realistic

543
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:43,080
within a science fiction Universe okay I

544
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:44,880
I want to hear how what that means then

545
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,820
reasonably realistic within sci-fi or

546
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:50,160
what where are the concessions then okay

547
00:20:47,820 --> 00:20:52,200
well I'll I'll give you a couple of

548
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,900
obvious ones

549
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:58,080
um in one of the great things about

550
00:20:54,900 --> 00:21:00,240
traveler even back in the 80s was that

551
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,520
you could buy these supplements which

552
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:05,280
covered things like

553
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,100
uh how to

554
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:11,400
design a solar system

555
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:12,840
so you could literally roll dice or

556
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,059
choose if you were building something

557
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,039
for narrative purposes

558
00:21:15,059 --> 00:21:19,740
the actual

559
00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:21,539
spectral type of the star and its size

560
00:21:19,740 --> 00:21:24,000
and how many orbits there were and

561
00:21:21,539 --> 00:21:25,919
whether it was a binary or trinary and

562
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,140
then each of those planets could have

563
00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:30,480
their own atmospheric and water

564
00:21:28,140 --> 00:21:32,580
conditions they could have their own

565
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,100
um Albedo numbers and therefore you

566
00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:36,840
could calculate how much you know what

567
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:39,059
the average temperature would be and

568
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,100
what the atmosphere would be like you

569
00:21:39,059 --> 00:21:43,559
could build all of this in with

570
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:45,120
remarkable Fidelity to scientific

571
00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:46,980
accuracy

572
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:48,600
and then you design a spaceship and in

573
00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:51,600
many ways that would also be you know

574
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,159
based on physical reality but then of

575
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,120
course they said Oh but you do have a

576
00:21:53,159 --> 00:21:55,620
jump drive

577
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:57,720
which means you can jump from star

578
00:21:55,620 --> 00:22:00,780
system to star system and it takes a

579
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,520
week in game for the for the the ship to

580
00:22:00,780 --> 00:22:06,720
make a jump

581
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:09,000
um and the jump is limited in range but

582
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,500
it's not actually scientifically

583
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,059
rational but people who wanted to play

584
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:14,960
science fiction games wanted to travel

585
00:22:12,059 --> 00:22:14,960
from Star to start

586
00:22:15,059 --> 00:22:18,000
yeah if you've already got a space

587
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,780
flight you're going to exhaust the solar

588
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,340
system

589
00:22:18,780 --> 00:22:26,159
Mystique in asynchronously yeah for sure

590
00:22:23,340 --> 00:22:27,659
for sure okay so the reason why I was

591
00:22:26,159 --> 00:22:30,720
asking about that then is obviously

592
00:22:27,659 --> 00:22:33,120
there's there tends to be some kind of

593
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,159
a villain for lack of a better term a

594
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,740
big bad evil guy however you want to

595
00:22:35,159 --> 00:22:40,020
point it and

596
00:22:37,740 --> 00:22:42,720
obviously that's part of the the game

597
00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:44,700
Runner to build an interesting villain

598
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,559
and an interesting antagonistic force

599
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:49,559
and

600
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:52,320
those kind of cliche villains or like

601
00:22:49,559 --> 00:22:54,299
straud to use a d d example a very

602
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,700
famous one they tend to have very strong

603
00:22:54,299 --> 00:22:59,220
and again another Google to find for

604
00:22:56,700 --> 00:23:01,500
integrity a strong moral principle like

605
00:22:59,220 --> 00:23:03,720
I I think what I'm getting at is like

606
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:06,120
good villains they're not very

607
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,940
flip-floppy they're very you know they

608
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:11,760
they have their moral Bible and they

609
00:23:08,940 --> 00:23:13,799
they stick to it I just like how do you

610
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,360
feel when it comes to those no well I

611
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:17,820
guess not even the big bad just any kind

612
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:19,620
of antagonistic NPC just the the thief

613
00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:22,140
who mugs you in the night to the the con

614
00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:25,320
man who's trying to absolutely something

615
00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:28,140
that isn't worth it how them they have

616
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,820
their own like fetus Integrity to coin a

617
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:32,280
phrase which definitely has a proper

618
00:23:29,820 --> 00:23:33,720
narrative term penned by somebody more

619
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,580
intelligent than I am

620
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,080
I know Ewan believes that a good villain

621
00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:38,600
has a knife sticking out of his throat

622
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,919
isn't that right

623
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,200
well if you watched any of the last

624
00:23:40,919 --> 00:23:46,940
couple of episodes uh you might be

625
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,940
persuaded to think that I believe that

626
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:52,140
so um from my point of view I believe

627
00:23:50,159 --> 00:23:53,640
narrative is really critical and yes

628
00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:56,280
villains

629
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:59,880
have to have a

630
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:03,419
character that makes sense for them

631
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:05,940
and drives their behavior but I don't

632
00:24:03,419 --> 00:24:09,000
think that's just villains

633
00:24:05,940 --> 00:24:10,020
I think any successful non-player

634
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,600
character

635
00:24:10,020 --> 00:24:15,480
has to have some

636
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,580
goals some identity some reason for

637
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,940
being where they are some some

638
00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:24,299
justification uh for a villain you can

639
00:24:20,940 --> 00:24:27,059
make their motives more ulterior so make

640
00:24:24,299 --> 00:24:29,580
essentially make them

641
00:24:27,059 --> 00:24:31,620
be untruthful about what those motives

642
00:24:29,580 --> 00:24:33,240
are whereas For Your Heroes they should

643
00:24:31,620 --> 00:24:35,640
basically say well I'm off to explore

644
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,960
the Galaxy or I'm off to explore this

645
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,179
dungeon and that's why they're actually

646
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,799
there for a villain they can be yeah

647
00:24:39,179 --> 00:24:42,720
sure we're going to explore the Dungeon

648
00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:44,400
but that's not why I'm actually going

649
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,480
there and then that can be revealed in

650
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,640
the story

651
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,580
I think villains

652
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,679
ultimately have to conceal something

653
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:55,679
critical otherwise they're not really

654
00:24:52,679 --> 00:24:57,600
villains if they if they stand on the

655
00:24:55,679 --> 00:25:00,020
top of of a Mountaintop twirling their

656
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,340
mustache and and laughing maniacally

657
00:25:00,020 --> 00:25:04,200
they're not really villains they're

658
00:25:02,340 --> 00:25:06,960
they're pantomime characters

659
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,640
the the dangerous ones are the ones that

660
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,100
seem

661
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:15,120
potentially a threat certainly but

662
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:16,200
subtle intellectual they're motivated by

663
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,059
something you don't necessarily

664
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,480
understand which means their actions

665
00:25:18,059 --> 00:25:24,240
seem unpredictable and risky

666
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,100
um oh I always find writing good

667
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,080
villains and good stories already hard

668
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:30,600
and anytime I ever talk to anybody else

669
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,140
who's better I am than I am at that kind

670
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:36,360
of stuff and was oh yeah it is

671
00:25:33,140 --> 00:25:39,720
so tricky to really hit those those

672
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:42,299
nuances of like obviously a pantomime

673
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,460
villain is very easy to to prop up and

674
00:25:42,299 --> 00:25:47,580
you know some guy that's just like I'm

675
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:49,260
burning Villages because or worlds like

676
00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:51,000
just just because

677
00:25:49,260 --> 00:25:53,340
you know has a hazard time and a place

678
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,860
but I think to really have the

679
00:25:53,340 --> 00:25:57,179
The Narrative punches yeah you need to

680
00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:58,919
have

681
00:25:57,179 --> 00:26:02,159
there needs to be something there some

682
00:25:58,919 --> 00:26:04,620
some yeah something held back I guess is

683
00:26:02,159 --> 00:26:06,539
the way to put it I think so if your

684
00:26:04,620 --> 00:26:09,240
villain is

685
00:26:06,539 --> 00:26:10,799
completely open about not what they're

686
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,580
doing necessarily but why they're doing

687
00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:14,400
it

688
00:26:11,580 --> 00:26:16,799
then you're robbing your players of a

689
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,720
really important part of the story which

690
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:21,659
is to understand something which when

691
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,100
they first arrive looks baffling and

692
00:26:21,659 --> 00:26:24,960
they may know that the person's working

693
00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:26,000
against them and they may know that the

694
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,700
person is

695
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,740
is behaving badly towards them is

696
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:34,980
violent or aggressive but

697
00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:38,039
until they find out why

698
00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:39,539
the story isn't complete and the why has

699
00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:40,860
to be there right it has to be an

700
00:26:39,539 --> 00:26:44,340
interesting thing

701
00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:45,240
I I swung a little bit too far I think

702
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:47,460
with

703
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,779
with my one by TR I added um too many

704
00:26:47,460 --> 00:26:53,220
layers of you know unknowns so certainly

705
00:26:51,779 --> 00:26:54,600
a few months ago my players would still

706
00:26:53,220 --> 00:26:56,039
be just like

707
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,220
like they're not really invested enough

708
00:26:56,039 --> 00:27:00,000
because it's just some

709
00:26:58,220 --> 00:27:03,360
amorphous

710
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,980
abstract entity that is maybe a bad

711
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,120
person we don't really know yet we'll

712
00:27:04,980 --> 00:27:08,940
just do it we're just going through the

713
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:10,980
motions so I'm starting to rebuild in

714
00:27:08,940 --> 00:27:12,779
things that's like no this is this is a

715
00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:14,640
real thing this is a real person they

716
00:27:12,779 --> 00:27:16,860
want to do this

717
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,120
on the face of it objectively bad thing

718
00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:19,919
so

719
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:22,080
you know for all intents and purposes

720
00:27:19,919 --> 00:27:24,419
you should probably work against them

721
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,520
obviously it's it is more nuanced than

722
00:27:24,419 --> 00:27:28,860
that but uh for the sake of actually

723
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,559
giving some motivation to the players

724
00:27:28,860 --> 00:27:32,640
I've had to to like be like yeah no okay

725
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:34,320
let me let me give you some more because

726
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,720
at the moment you just working against

727
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:39,059
some Boogeyman that is is not good

728
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,460
enough yeah

729
00:27:39,059 --> 00:27:45,059
two episodes ago in our traveler

730
00:27:41,460 --> 00:27:46,679
campaign a villain who is arguably the

731
00:27:45,059 --> 00:27:47,940
most significant villain that our

732
00:27:46,679 --> 00:27:50,520
players have met

733
00:27:47,940 --> 00:27:52,200
who they've been battling with and

734
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,460
facing off against for over two years

735
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,799
now

736
00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:58,380
one of ewan's characters

737
00:27:55,799 --> 00:28:01,440
um just snapped and saw an opportunity

738
00:27:58,380 --> 00:28:03,539
and stabbed him in the throat ah in

739
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,720
order to bring matters hopefully to a

740
00:28:03,539 --> 00:28:09,120
head and has successfully you know

741
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,799
really badly hurt him though he has

742
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,919
survived

743
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:16,380
um medical attention was quickly on hand

744
00:28:12,919 --> 00:28:19,200
but that's part of the traveler Universe

745
00:28:16,380 --> 00:28:21,179
your sort of level boss if you like the

746
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,940
the potentially huge threat is still

747
00:28:21,179 --> 00:28:26,220
just a guy if you if you're stabbing

748
00:28:23,940 --> 00:28:29,039
with a knife he's gonna be hurt very

749
00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:31,740
badly hmm if you get him in the right

750
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:34,020
place in the right time you can yeah get

751
00:28:31,740 --> 00:28:35,700
rid of them which I love the the

752
00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:36,779
complete this is this is why I love

753
00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:38,100
doing this chat because you get to talk

754
00:28:36,779 --> 00:28:39,600
about these things with different people

755
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:42,059
from different experiences and are the

756
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,159
meme Indian D circles is like when you

757
00:28:42,059 --> 00:28:46,679
try and when the adventurers try and rob

758
00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:49,380
a local shopkeeper but he turns out to

759
00:28:46,679 --> 00:28:51,240
be a retired level 20 Adventurer and so

760
00:28:49,380 --> 00:28:53,039
of course it's immune to being stabbed

761
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,960
in the neck because he can summon

762
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,279
lightning bolts in the sky and demons

763
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,779
from the abyss because he's a level 20

764
00:28:56,279 --> 00:29:01,200
Adventurer so that's that's like the

765
00:28:57,779 --> 00:29:04,620
complete opposite of what you've just

766
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:07,679
described yes in in traveler you know a

767
00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:11,279
a sufficiently powerful individual isn't

768
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:12,960
powerful because of stats and often not

769
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:15,539
even powerful because of technology or

770
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,940
equipment they're powerful because they

771
00:29:15,539 --> 00:29:21,000
have respect or

772
00:29:17,940 --> 00:29:23,279
um a position of Authority or a mission

773
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,539
that is is something they're heavily

774
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:28,140
devoted to

775
00:29:24,539 --> 00:29:30,059
uh twice in this campaign

776
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:31,260
um the players have decided to overthrow

777
00:29:30,059 --> 00:29:33,480
a government

778
00:29:31,260 --> 00:29:36,480
on a world that they arrived at and both

779
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:40,320
times they've succeeded in doing so how

780
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,760
um and the these weren't necessarily the

781
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,860
worst of villains they were defeating

782
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,940
they just decided that this is what they

783
00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:46,740
wanted to do

784
00:29:44,940 --> 00:29:48,899
but then on the other hand they've also

785
00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:51,059
started a small business and negotiated

786
00:29:48,899 --> 00:29:53,580
a mortgage so there are all sorts of

787
00:29:51,059 --> 00:29:55,020
things you do in a campaign

788
00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:57,600
those are those are the kind of things

789
00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:59,760
that scare me senseless in in d d if my

790
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,720
players are like and one time they did

791
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,399
want to

792
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,440
take something to the court of law

793
00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:06,240
because they were wanted as much DND

794
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,740
parties are for doing some criminal

795
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,240
activities in the city there was one to

796
00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:10,980
posters up and stuff and then one was

797
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,140
like I guess the sky self and pretend to

798
00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:17,240
be my lawyer and I'm like man

799
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:19,799
that's not I don't know law guys

800
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,840
I'll give you an experience but it ain't

801
00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:24,299
gonna use the right words you're now a

802
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:27,320
plaintiff why not because I don't really

803
00:30:24,299 --> 00:30:27,320
know what that word means

804
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,200
uh so yeah that kind of stuff I mean I'm

805
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,159
scared enough for my own mortgage let

806
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:37,080
alone uh a fantasy one but yes uh

807
00:30:34,159 --> 00:30:39,299
I was I was just thinking a second ago

808
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,860
about my notes on this this particular

809
00:30:39,299 --> 00:30:43,080
topic around the villains having

810
00:30:40,860 --> 00:30:44,760
integrity and how you could only get in

811
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,440
I thought like maybe you could only get

812
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,720
into those positions of power like what

813
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,059
you were describing there you know in

814
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,000
you know and you know commanding

815
00:30:51,059 --> 00:30:56,880
loyal followers and whatnot by having

816
00:30:54,000 --> 00:31:00,059
integrity and then I made me think of

817
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:02,880
our own leaders in the real world

818
00:31:00,059 --> 00:31:05,340
AKA our politicians almost like oh yeah

819
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,659
that's not that's never the case because

820
00:31:05,340 --> 00:31:08,279
a lot of them don't have any Integrity

821
00:31:06,659 --> 00:31:10,620
whatsoever someone's like okay fine it's

822
00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:13,919
very I guess it's very easy to get in

823
00:31:10,620 --> 00:31:16,380
those positions of power yeah I mean

824
00:31:13,919 --> 00:31:18,299
it's possible something like uh Fidelity

825
00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:21,240
would be better than Integrity is the

826
00:31:18,299 --> 00:31:22,740
word for that because they they are they

827
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,140
don't necessarily have integrity but

828
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:27,419
they are faithful to their own ambition

829
00:31:25,140 --> 00:31:29,220
they're faithful to their own plans

830
00:31:27,419 --> 00:31:30,899
if you were to understand them

831
00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:31,919
completely you would still find them

832
00:31:30,899 --> 00:31:35,399
very

833
00:31:31,919 --> 00:31:37,340
um very rational in the way they behave

834
00:31:35,399 --> 00:31:40,799
um even if you think this is monstrous

835
00:31:37,340 --> 00:31:42,240
it's monstrous to you but for them it

836
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:45,120
makes perfect sense it's how they're

837
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,980
going to secure wealth or power or

838
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,720
influence

839
00:31:46,980 --> 00:31:50,460
it's very unusual to encounter someone

840
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,940
who actually behaves completely

841
00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:55,679
irrationally to their own perspective

842
00:31:52,940 --> 00:31:58,380
yes yeah that that in internal

843
00:31:55,679 --> 00:32:00,360
consistency I think is is the town there

844
00:31:58,380 --> 00:32:02,340
so they are

845
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,140
if you got to know the villains good

846
00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:05,640
enough you'd be able to kind of guess

847
00:32:04,140 --> 00:32:07,440
their next actions because they're going

848
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,539
to stay true to that

849
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,220
that way of thinking that that they they

850
00:32:09,539 --> 00:32:13,860
still want to achieve that goal it's not

851
00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:15,600
just purely random again those kinds of

852
00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:17,220
villains have their

853
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,080
have their place I've recently gotten

854
00:32:17,220 --> 00:32:20,520
back into like Warhammer and 40K and

855
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,860
stuff and of course there's the forces

856
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:26,039
of chaos which are just inherently

857
00:32:22,860 --> 00:32:28,559
chaotic funnily enough uh and obviously

858
00:32:26,039 --> 00:32:29,700
they are a very very big antagonist in

859
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:32,159
that world

860
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:34,140
but yeah it's very hard not to be cliche

861
00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:35,760
I kind of want them to

862
00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:37,799
you get to that point and the players

863
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:41,399
are gonna be like oh I can kinda see

864
00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:43,740
maybe why he's done some of this stuff

865
00:32:41,399 --> 00:32:45,899
but it's very

866
00:32:43,740 --> 00:32:48,419
that is again a very challenging thing

867
00:32:45,899 --> 00:32:49,679
to do to not have it be like I don't

868
00:32:48,419 --> 00:32:50,940
know just something horrid like you know

869
00:32:49,679 --> 00:32:52,500
ula's family were murdered or whatever

870
00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:54,720
and then it's just a bit like all right

871
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:56,820
okay but does that at the moment is this

872
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,960
very difficult again that's why writers

873
00:32:56,820 --> 00:33:00,539
are a profession and I'm not a

874
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,700
professional writer

875
00:33:00,539 --> 00:33:06,179
yeah if it was that easy everybody would

876
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:08,399
do it you're right but um but it's I

877
00:33:06,179 --> 00:33:09,899
think it's easier than you think there

878
00:33:08,399 --> 00:33:12,240
are any number of

879
00:33:09,899 --> 00:33:13,740
things that people have created and I I

880
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,419
built one for myself for my own

881
00:33:13,740 --> 00:33:17,640
characters where essentially you can do

882
00:33:15,419 --> 00:33:19,320
a sketch of a character where it

883
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,240
essentially just asks you questions you

884
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,919
know what's this person like what do

885
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,960
they want why do they want it what do

886
00:33:22,919 --> 00:33:26,880
they fear what do they love what do they

887
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,380
think of

888
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,220
um you know what do they have contempt

889
00:33:28,380 --> 00:33:33,720
for It's that kind of thing and once

890
00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:35,519
you've got in your head what kind of

891
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,620
person they are

892
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:39,659
it becomes much much easier to play them

893
00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:41,940
with some degree of consistency

894
00:33:39,659 --> 00:33:43,080
one one of The Temptations that I have

895
00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:46,019
to fight against

896
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,760
um there's this bit in Deadpool where

897
00:33:46,019 --> 00:33:49,380
one of the characters is talking to

898
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,299
Deadpool about what it takes to be a

899
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:52,679
hero and he makes this throwaway comment

900
00:33:51,299 --> 00:33:54,360
about you know you think that a hero

901
00:33:52,679 --> 00:33:55,620
like gets up a hero brushes his teeth

902
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,519
like a hero you know he does everything

903
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:58,740
like

904
00:33:56,519 --> 00:34:01,140
but in reality

905
00:33:58,740 --> 00:34:03,179
you actually normally a normal guy you

906
00:34:01,140 --> 00:34:04,860
do you know two three four heroic things

907
00:34:03,179 --> 00:34:07,380
and you're a hero you don't have to do

908
00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:10,200
everything in your life heroically

909
00:34:07,380 --> 00:34:12,179
um one of the one of the challenges I

910
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,379
think if you're running particularly a

911
00:34:12,179 --> 00:34:14,820
villain

912
00:34:13,379 --> 00:34:18,139
is

913
00:34:14,820 --> 00:34:20,879
they can't be villainous all the time

914
00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:23,580
just because they're a villain they

915
00:34:20,879 --> 00:34:26,099
don't do everything villainously they

916
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:28,200
don't make breakfast villainously they

917
00:34:26,099 --> 00:34:30,659
don't get on a bus villainously they

918
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:33,720
they do villainous things but they also

919
00:34:30,659 --> 00:34:36,540
go to the cinema and that's not because

920
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:38,879
they they don't skulk into the cinema

921
00:34:36,540 --> 00:34:41,040
necessarily they don't necessarily have

922
00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:42,240
to you know sneak in without buying a

923
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,320
ticket

924
00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:45,659
um they don't have to do everything

925
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,820
villainously they just have a plan you

926
00:34:45,659 --> 00:34:49,560
don't always meet them at the point

927
00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:51,659
where they're doing something evil

928
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,060
and I do have to remind myself of this

929
00:34:51,659 --> 00:34:56,099
because in a campaign particularly you

930
00:34:54,060 --> 00:34:57,599
or any kind of Adventure I suppose

931
00:34:56,099 --> 00:34:59,520
you've got a limited number of

932
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:01,920
interactions a limited amount of time

933
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,380
for your players to to interact with

934
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,000
this character and the Temptation is to

935
00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:09,540
try and pile into those limited

936
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,220
interactions all of their evil

937
00:35:09,540 --> 00:35:15,180
um but that means they come across as a

938
00:35:11,220 --> 00:35:17,119
bit one note they're always evil so what

939
00:35:15,180 --> 00:35:19,079
what I tend to

940
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:23,520
try to do

941
00:35:19,079 --> 00:35:26,820
is to make them act in a way that is

942
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:29,880
unpleasant or cruel but not actually

943
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:32,579
necessarily part of their core plan

944
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,960
that's really interesting that you the

945
00:35:32,579 --> 00:35:36,720
way you describe it like you you want to

946
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,280
squeeze in all that evil into that those

947
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,440
short interactions you have and it's so

948
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,660
true like you do I did it the first

949
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,160
times that my my bookbag gets introduced

950
00:35:42,660 --> 00:35:45,359
you're really trying to like ah this is

951
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,780
my opportunity let me send the message

952
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:52,920
this is the bad guy and it is so easy to

953
00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:54,180
to compress that evilness down to to

954
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,400
send their message but yeah absolutely

955
00:35:54,180 --> 00:35:58,440
it does lead to okay it can lead to at

956
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,240
least the the impression of a very

957
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,119
two-dimensional character but talking

958
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:03,900
about you mentioned they're like

959
00:36:02,119 --> 00:36:05,820
villains don't you know make their

960
00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:08,339
breakfast villainously I was just it

961
00:36:05,820 --> 00:36:10,380
just threw my mind back to like kids

962
00:36:08,339 --> 00:36:12,180
Saturday morning television like Rita

963
00:36:10,380 --> 00:36:13,440
repulsa from Power Rangers like

964
00:36:12,180 --> 00:36:16,220
absolutely eats their breakfast

965
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,220
relentlessly

966
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,300
but for a kid's TV show of course

967
00:36:23,359 --> 00:36:28,920
and you've also got to be true to what

968
00:36:25,740 --> 00:36:30,839
makes a villain the villain I mean if

969
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,400
when when that villain was like a

970
00:36:30,839 --> 00:36:34,619
seven-year-old

971
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,140
they did nothing but evil to everyone

972
00:36:34,619 --> 00:36:39,000
around them then nobody would have ever

973
00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:40,020
promoted them to the point where they

974
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,880
could be

975
00:36:40,020 --> 00:36:43,560
the the real evil that they are today

976
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,280
they had to be much more cunning than

977
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,800
that

978
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,060
and they they have to get to the point

979
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,980
where they've earned enough respect

980
00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:51,839
enough power to be entrusted with

981
00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:54,079
something otherwise they don't really

982
00:36:51,839 --> 00:36:56,640
have any clout in the game they become

983
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:59,520
Sidekicks and henchmen rather than your

984
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,140
real bad you're a real bad guy he's got

985
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,880
to be

986
00:37:01,140 --> 00:37:04,460
um a thinking enemy I think at least for

987
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,780
me

988
00:37:04,460 --> 00:37:09,300
yeah I think there's there's two there's

989
00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:10,619
two ways you can go isn't there we've

990
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:12,780
super digressed right now but this was

991
00:37:10,619 --> 00:37:15,000
the last thing I swear listeners is

992
00:37:12,780 --> 00:37:16,560
for those forces as evil forces you can

993
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,020
either go the thinking enemies you've

994
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,960
called it the the Machiavellian the let

995
00:37:19,020 --> 00:37:24,180
me plan I put plans and motions that you

996
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,880
can't even you know you're just pieces

997
00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:29,760
on the board for me or you just go force

998
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,920
of nature like almost unbeatable like

999
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,900
it's just the act of the universe itself

1000
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,940
something is going wrong that we needed

1001
00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:37,500
some way to fix you know some Terror in

1002
00:37:35,940 --> 00:37:39,420
reality for example or some other

1003
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:40,920
apocalyptic problem that needs to be

1004
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:43,140
resolved that can't be a reason to it at

1005
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,720
all like you you either go from one

1006
00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:47,579
person who's can be very reasonable on

1007
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:49,560
the face of it to just some

1008
00:37:47,579 --> 00:37:51,960
active nature that is very unreasonable

1009
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,720
is I feel like

1010
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:57,000
they're the two ends of the the villain

1011
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:59,280
scale

1012
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,900
yeah I think that's probably very true

1013
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,500
you have to have

1014
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:04,140
um

1015
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:07,440
you have to have the option for just a

1016
00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:10,619
mad lunatic enemy

1017
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,180
but for me and we we have faced a few of

1018
00:38:10,619 --> 00:38:13,260
those in our campaign and and I don't

1019
00:38:12,180 --> 00:38:14,820
have any problem with those kind of

1020
00:38:13,260 --> 00:38:17,220
characters but

1021
00:38:14,820 --> 00:38:19,500
for me they're not going to be the the

1022
00:38:17,220 --> 00:38:21,720
big bad guy they're always going to be

1023
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:23,960
someone hired because they're willing to

1024
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:26,099
be recklessly violent and dangerous

1025
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,780
there's got to be someone who's pulling

1026
00:38:26,099 --> 00:38:30,540
their strings I think

1027
00:38:27,780 --> 00:38:33,660
um yeah it's trying to think of every

1028
00:38:30,540 --> 00:38:37,320
henchman like for every James Bond

1029
00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:39,780
villain there is the the the boss who's

1030
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,720
the head who's the guy that James

1031
00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:44,160
bondusta has to fight like is it Jaws no

1032
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,220
is that the name of the guy with the

1033
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:50,520
yeah with the with the metal teeth yes

1034
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:52,320
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the the just

1035
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,160
the the brick wall to

1036
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,160
breakdown

1037
00:38:55,500 --> 00:39:00,420
yeah and it's it's a it's a fair point

1038
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,940
because sometimes

1039
00:39:00,420 --> 00:39:04,140
um there are villains are encountering

1040
00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:05,119
movies that aren't really villains at

1041
00:39:04,140 --> 00:39:09,180
all

1042
00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:11,040
they're like forces of nature or threats

1043
00:39:09,180 --> 00:39:13,440
that have no intellectual component

1044
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,780
behind them and

1045
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,280
those

1046
00:39:15,780 --> 00:39:20,220
still have to be scripted if you're

1047
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,260
writing a film script but they don't

1048
00:39:20,220 --> 00:39:24,480
have to be given any motivation they

1049
00:39:22,260 --> 00:39:26,220
don't have to have any purpose behind

1050
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,020
just existing

1051
00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:29,400
and when you said Jaws you see this

1052
00:39:28,020 --> 00:39:30,839
reminded me of one because I've always

1053
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,099
thought draws isn't a horror film I

1054
00:39:30,839 --> 00:39:34,320
always thought it was a disaster movie

1055
00:39:32,099 --> 00:39:36,960
it's like a force of nature that people

1056
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:40,020
have to survive and the villain is the

1057
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,960
is not the shark it's the evil mayor who

1058
00:39:40,020 --> 00:39:44,579
won't close the beaches and yes and so

1059
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,560
he's like in the Towering Inferno he's

1060
00:39:44,579 --> 00:39:48,960
the evil architect who cut Corners with

1061
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,460
the with the building design and the the

1062
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,960
shark is like the fire it's not the

1063
00:39:50,460 --> 00:39:54,119
villain of the piece it's just something

1064
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:57,200
that happens which highlights the

1065
00:39:54,119 --> 00:39:57,200
villainy of the villain

1066
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:03,060
oh yeah that's right Jewels is whatever

1067
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,800
you know one of the most famous and

1068
00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:07,380
favorite films of all time because it is

1069
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:10,740
those it has that that those two levels

1070
00:40:07,380 --> 00:40:12,060
to it well obviously 101 other things my

1071
00:40:10,740 --> 00:40:14,280
girlfriend who studied film at

1072
00:40:12,060 --> 00:40:17,900
University is probably like

1073
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,900
chlorine at the walls behind me

1074
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,220
yeah

1075
00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:24,960
it has some fans I will say jaws

1076
00:40:23,220 --> 00:40:26,640
definitely has some fans and I'm one of

1077
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,680
them oh good let's stop there then

1078
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,040
before I make anything you think it was

1079
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,040
worse

1080
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:44,280
so we've talked about

1081
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:46,020
Integrity villains and personality

1082
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,900
traits of villains and and how to build

1083
00:40:46,020 --> 00:40:50,760
good and interesting NPCs uh

1084
00:40:48,900 --> 00:40:52,380
antagonistic forces

1085
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,500
the other thing I want to talk about is

1086
00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:57,960
that internal consistency of a setting

1087
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:59,339
or of a campaign and I think from what

1088
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,320
you've already talked about travel is

1089
00:40:59,339 --> 00:41:03,420
probably pretty good at that with its

1090
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,460
things in place it's systems in place to

1091
00:41:03,420 --> 00:41:08,579
have mortgages to have you know

1092
00:41:05,460 --> 00:41:10,920
physically accurate solar systems as

1093
00:41:08,579 --> 00:41:13,380
inaccurate to the physics of the

1094
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,880
universe but then aside from that how do

1095
00:41:13,380 --> 00:41:16,619
how does it work in traveler and other

1096
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,200
games you've played where that there has

1097
00:41:16,619 --> 00:41:20,520
to be an internal consistency right if

1098
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,680
players just go from

1099
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,839
rooms to the other and this room you

1100
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,940
walk on the ceiling and this place is

1101
00:41:24,839 --> 00:41:28,700
upside down or Inside Out World like

1102
00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:30,980
there has to be some kind of through

1103
00:41:28,700 --> 00:41:33,180
consistency that

1104
00:41:30,980 --> 00:41:36,000
grounds the characters and the players

1105
00:41:33,180 --> 00:41:38,339
the players know what to expect so

1106
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,619
you know they still have to make

1107
00:41:38,339 --> 00:41:42,480
decisions with information and it's not

1108
00:41:40,619 --> 00:41:43,800
just this crazy place that information

1109
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,359
has no meaning and they're just making

1110
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:49,079
decisions in a vacuum because then

1111
00:41:45,359 --> 00:41:50,160
that's no fun um so how does traveler or

1112
00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:52,140
you always say actually probably more

1113
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,480
accurately how do you

1114
00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:57,240
ensure that internal consistency that

1115
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,579
that Integrity of a campaign I I think

1116
00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:01,880
within traveler it's easier than you

1117
00:41:59,579 --> 00:42:04,980
might think because

1118
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:07,619
the physics of the universe is is our

1119
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:09,960
physics though as I say there are a few

1120
00:42:07,619 --> 00:42:11,940
bits where they've broken the rules a

1121
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:14,060
bit in order to allow you to have the

1122
00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:17,099
kind of Adventures you want to have

1123
00:42:14,060 --> 00:42:18,660
those don't really impact people's

1124
00:42:17,099 --> 00:42:20,460
understanding of the universe you just

1125
00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:23,339
accept that you can jump from one star

1126
00:42:20,460 --> 00:42:26,220
system to another but once you get there

1127
00:42:23,339 --> 00:42:29,220
the star system works the same way ours

1128
00:42:26,220 --> 00:42:31,200
does we don't have laser pistols but we

1129
00:42:29,220 --> 00:42:33,599
have pistols you know we know what those

1130
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,420
are we know how they work you you point

1131
00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:39,240
and pull a trigger and they shoot it's

1132
00:42:36,420 --> 00:42:40,680
it's not intrinsically an alien concept

1133
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:43,020
even when you're dealing with an alien

1134
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,060
and in general the things you face in

1135
00:42:43,020 --> 00:42:49,380
traveler are grounded in a scientific

1136
00:42:45,060 --> 00:42:51,720
reality I think it's harder when things

1137
00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:55,140
it's less to do in traveler at least

1138
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:57,720
with the the setting

1139
00:42:55,140 --> 00:43:00,720
um in terms of the place as it is the

1140
00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:02,460
setting in terms of the time people are

1141
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:05,640
often thinking well hang on a minute

1142
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:07,560
we've got such and such technology do we

1143
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,960
have anything more advanced than that so

1144
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,700
what kind of electronic communicators

1145
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,839
are people carrying can they talk to

1146
00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:15,420
someone on the other side of the Galaxy

1147
00:43:12,839 --> 00:43:17,339
with them rather than just you know buy

1148
00:43:15,420 --> 00:43:20,460
concert tickets on their mobile phone

1149
00:43:17,339 --> 00:43:21,900
and that stuff it's way where the sand

1150
00:43:20,460 --> 00:43:22,980
shifts a little bit and things you

1151
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:25,319
already know

1152
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:26,760
one of the more fun things we're doing

1153
00:43:25,319 --> 00:43:28,680
at the moment in fact we're playing

1154
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,760
later tonight a game called night

1155
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,400
witches

1156
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,960
which is set during the second World War

1157
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,780
and I think

1158
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,819
pretty much anybody who's you know my

1159
00:43:36,780 --> 00:43:40,800
kind of age and even ewan's kind of age

1160
00:43:38,819 --> 00:43:42,800
and ewan's a bit younger than me

1161
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,880
um but only three or four hundred years

1162
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,500
we've got a pretty reasonable

1163
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,839
understanding of how physics worked in

1164
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:50,099
the second world war and you know we

1165
00:43:48,839 --> 00:43:51,420
know what a bomb is and we know what a

1166
00:43:50,099 --> 00:43:53,280
plane is and that kind of thing it

1167
00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:55,200
shouldn't inherently be a problem

1168
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,700
but the issue is it's set in the Soviet

1169
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,880
Union

1170
00:43:56,700 --> 00:44:01,800
and that changes quite a lot of the

1171
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,619
things you sort of take for granted it's

1172
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:07,140
a very different culture

1173
00:44:03,619 --> 00:44:08,760
and adapting to those changes I think is

1174
00:44:07,140 --> 00:44:09,720
harder I think I think it's harder to

1175
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,359
cope with

1176
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:15,599
a world that you arrive on in a science

1177
00:44:12,359 --> 00:44:16,200
fiction Universe where you discover that

1178
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:17,880
um

1179
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,520
they've got

1180
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,660
slavery for example as a function of

1181
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,599
their society

1182
00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:26,819
because not only would we instinctively

1183
00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:29,520
reject it and think this is evil and

1184
00:44:26,819 --> 00:44:31,319
must be defeated which is fine but it's

1185
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,660
not necessarily where the narrative is

1186
00:44:31,319 --> 00:44:35,819
taking you but the the other problem is

1187
00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:39,240
we don't really have any direct

1188
00:44:35,819 --> 00:44:40,920
experience of it we we aren't we aren't

1189
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,500
necessarily able to make the mental

1190
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,480
shift to understand how people who lived

1191
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:47,160
in that society would react it's great

1192
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,079
for the PCS they're turning up on a

1193
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,700
world that has slavery and they're

1194
00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:52,319
looking at it the way we would because

1195
00:44:50,700 --> 00:44:55,619
they don't come from a place that has

1196
00:44:52,319 --> 00:44:57,420
slavery but as the GM you've got a real

1197
00:44:55,619 --> 00:44:59,520
problem because you've got to put

1198
00:44:57,420 --> 00:45:00,960
yourself in the mind of people who've

1199
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,660
grown up with it they've lived with it

1200
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,180
it's reality and normality for them

1201
00:45:03,660 --> 00:45:08,880
and that I that I think is a really big

1202
00:45:06,180 --> 00:45:10,800
challenge coping with how people accept

1203
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,160
difference

1204
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:17,160
the toughest one for me in traveler is

1205
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,500
one of the societies outside the third

1206
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:22,740
Imperium but in that universe so to

1207
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:25,200
speak is called the zodani consulate and

1208
00:45:22,740 --> 00:45:28,079
it is a society in which they have

1209
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:30,420
elevated psionic talent to be a

1210
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:31,859
significant part of the society

1211
00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:34,079
so it's

1212
00:45:31,859 --> 00:45:37,319
it is the case that zodanis have

1213
00:45:34,079 --> 00:45:39,839
literally learned to be happy

1214
00:45:37,319 --> 00:45:41,819
because if they're unhappy and someone

1215
00:45:39,839 --> 00:45:43,560
Twigs that they're unhappy they might be

1216
00:45:41,819 --> 00:45:45,660
considered disloyal or potentially a

1217
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,520
threat to society and there are people

1218
00:45:45,660 --> 00:45:50,880
around you who can read your mind

1219
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:53,579
so zodanis are uniformly happy while in

1220
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,960
zodani's face while surrounded by

1221
00:45:53,579 --> 00:45:56,760
um zodani people and they grow up

1222
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,900
knowing how to do that they can fake

1223
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,060
happiness

1224
00:45:57,900 --> 00:46:02,460
right down to the core of their being

1225
00:46:00,060 --> 00:46:05,400
and we all do this I think to some

1226
00:46:02,460 --> 00:46:09,960
extent we do self-delusion quite well as

1227
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:12,960
human beings but it's hard for me being

1228
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:15,180
British to do that with happiness I

1229
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:17,280
easily do that with misery but happiness

1230
00:46:15,180 --> 00:46:21,300
is really challenging to do as a

1231
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,920
self-delusion yeah yeah it is tricky as

1232
00:46:21,300 --> 00:46:24,599
you said especially from the DM in some

1233
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,640
way the players get it easy now I'm

1234
00:46:24,599 --> 00:46:31,079
confirm my set my high horse as the DM

1235
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:32,880
and and play my tiny violin um but yeah

1236
00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:34,560
to put your mind in and slavery is a

1237
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:37,619
good example because it is just you know

1238
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,619
objectively abhorrent so it

1239
00:46:37,619 --> 00:46:41,819
but it it is also can be again that's

1240
00:46:40,619 --> 00:46:43,800
not for everybody and every game's

1241
00:46:41,819 --> 00:46:47,339
different usual caveat Supply good faith

1242
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:50,640
arguments but it can be a foundation for

1243
00:46:47,339 --> 00:46:53,099
character motivation and interesting

1244
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:55,619
maybe that's not the right term but

1245
00:46:53,099 --> 00:46:57,780
interesting stories and enables the

1246
00:46:55,619 --> 00:47:00,480
characters to be the good guys and so on

1247
00:46:57,780 --> 00:47:03,359
and so on yeah but it is difficult for

1248
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:06,540
the DM to yeah you have to

1249
00:47:03,359 --> 00:47:08,220
portray people who are in to slavery as

1250
00:47:06,540 --> 00:47:12,359
in in some way that you know actors have

1251
00:47:08,220 --> 00:47:14,640
done in in films and stuff and it's it's

1252
00:47:12,359 --> 00:47:16,800
it's different in some ways because

1253
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,940
obviously actors are they're reading

1254
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,859
your script and yes they do have to

1255
00:47:17,940 --> 00:47:22,260
embody and obviously live through that

1256
00:47:19,859 --> 00:47:24,780
that but that person but when you're

1257
00:47:22,260 --> 00:47:27,599
trying to improvise on the spot of like

1258
00:47:24,780 --> 00:47:29,220
the the arguments for slavery because I

1259
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:30,720
know my players one guy would be like

1260
00:47:29,220 --> 00:47:32,700
well don't you think that it's bad

1261
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:34,980
because of XYZ and what do you feel if

1262
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:37,079
this was to happen and to try and

1263
00:47:34,980 --> 00:47:39,780
improvise the not just maybe but

1264
00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:41,880
anything like murdering people for

1265
00:47:39,780 --> 00:47:43,680
Bloodsport I don't know another airport

1266
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,060
evil thing like trying to put yourself

1267
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,339
in and

1268
00:47:45,060 --> 00:47:50,640
argue with yourself internally while

1269
00:47:47,339 --> 00:47:52,020
still portraying a believable NPC that

1270
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,480
that micro

1271
00:47:52,020 --> 00:47:57,960
wheel the hamster wheels spinning in my

1272
00:47:54,480 --> 00:48:00,119
head is is such a challenge

1273
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:03,440
I'm much much rather just have all my

1274
00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:07,319
NPCs be into video games uh and then

1275
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,940
we'd be laughing yeah I mean you're

1276
00:48:07,319 --> 00:48:10,440
right that sometimes there are

1277
00:48:08,940 --> 00:48:12,420
circumstances in which players do have

1278
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,740
it easy because they can embody a

1279
00:48:12,420 --> 00:48:16,740
character who's a bit more like

1280
00:48:13,740 --> 00:48:18,060
themselves or a bit more like the the

1281
00:48:16,740 --> 00:48:20,760
kind of person they would be in that

1282
00:48:18,060 --> 00:48:23,700
universe but it's also much much easier

1283
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,740
if you're a GM or referees as they're

1284
00:48:23,700 --> 00:48:28,200
called in traveler

1285
00:48:25,740 --> 00:48:32,640
um with a group of players that you know

1286
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:35,819
well and who you have a lot of

1287
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:38,160
experience with because you know what

1288
00:48:35,819 --> 00:48:40,619
they will jump on and embrace you know

1289
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,420
what they'll run with you know so you

1290
00:48:40,619 --> 00:48:45,000
can you can get away with things like

1291
00:48:42,420 --> 00:48:46,680
that we've played games set in ancient

1292
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,780
Rome for example where slavery was

1293
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:51,780
absolutely a fact of life and perhaps

1294
00:48:48,780 --> 00:48:54,540
that's set far enough in the past that

1295
00:48:51,780 --> 00:48:57,300
you wouldn't necessarily associate it

1296
00:48:54,540 --> 00:49:00,000
with modern times anyway but

1297
00:48:57,300 --> 00:49:02,700
um one that I kicked around a while ago

1298
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,619
was an idea of doing a game set during

1299
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:07,380
the American Civil War following a

1300
00:49:04,619 --> 00:49:09,540
character very much like Elizabeth wanlu

1301
00:49:07,380 --> 00:49:11,819
and

1302
00:49:09,540 --> 00:49:14,400
that's much more current much more

1303
00:49:11,819 --> 00:49:15,599
recent and for some people would be a

1304
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,119
very tough

1305
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:19,140
um subject to cover

1306
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:21,119
particularly because it will be set

1307
00:49:19,140 --> 00:49:23,240
effectively in in Richmond Virginia so

1308
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:25,260
in the Confederacy during the Civil War

1309
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:27,720
and uh

1310
00:49:25,260 --> 00:49:29,520
so you've got to have a group of players

1311
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:31,859
who would agree to that kind of setting

1312
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:35,099
of course and who would be willing to

1313
00:49:31,859 --> 00:49:37,440
explore that as a concept even if the

1314
00:49:35,099 --> 00:49:39,720
character they're playing is ardently

1315
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,960
anti-slavery it's still a

1316
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:44,940
a tricky place to take them

1317
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,980
yeah but again to bring us back on the

1318
00:49:44,940 --> 00:49:49,200
topic of internal consistency and

1319
00:49:46,980 --> 00:49:51,359
integrity like if again

1320
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,380
all parties in agreement and everyone's

1321
00:49:51,359 --> 00:49:55,140
happy

1322
00:49:52,380 --> 00:49:57,540
comfortable with those kind of things

1323
00:49:55,140 --> 00:49:58,980
you have to kind of stay true like if

1324
00:49:57,540 --> 00:50:01,740
that culture is like that one you said

1325
00:49:58,980 --> 00:50:04,020
is everybody stays is happy all the time

1326
00:50:01,740 --> 00:50:05,280
you kind of have to stick you have to

1327
00:50:04,020 --> 00:50:07,079
keep that internal consistency right

1328
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,060
like the moment you have somebody who

1329
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:12,119
isn't then that's either you've made a

1330
00:50:09,060 --> 00:50:15,359
mistake or yes a very very good

1331
00:50:12,119 --> 00:50:18,420
hook for for a story of course but then

1332
00:50:15,359 --> 00:50:20,760
it can't it can't be not a hook for a

1333
00:50:18,420 --> 00:50:22,380
story because then it's yeah yes it

1334
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,660
can't just be an exercise in Noble

1335
00:50:22,380 --> 00:50:26,099
gazing can it yeah like you've lost the

1336
00:50:24,660 --> 00:50:27,119
consistency and the players don't know

1337
00:50:26,099 --> 00:50:28,980
what's

1338
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:30,420
you know what's like what's true or not

1339
00:50:28,980 --> 00:50:33,359
anymore because you've lost that

1340
00:50:30,420 --> 00:50:34,800
consistency there is one area I will say

1341
00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:38,220
where I would

1342
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:40,079
always resist trying to recreate things

1343
00:50:38,220 --> 00:50:42,599
accurately and that's in the use of

1344
00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:44,760
language if you were setting something

1345
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:47,099
as as we're doing tonight in the second

1346
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,020
world war but instead of in the Soviet

1347
00:50:47,099 --> 00:50:53,400
Union you're setting it in the UK or the

1348
00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:55,020
us if you were using period accurate

1349
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,480
terminology

1350
00:50:55,020 --> 00:50:58,559
you would be using some wildly offensive

1351
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,140
terms

1352
00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:02,940
um to today's audience

1353
00:51:01,140 --> 00:51:05,280
and you would be doing so for no real

1354
00:51:02,940 --> 00:51:07,200
point because you're not the people

1355
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,960
using that kind of language who would be

1356
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,900
say British soldiers American GIS then

1357
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:15,420
they're not bad guys they're just from a

1358
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:17,339
very different time and place so trying

1359
00:51:15,420 --> 00:51:19,740
to recreate that is not only unnecessary

1360
00:51:17,339 --> 00:51:21,480
and I think offensive it's also wildly

1361
00:51:19,740 --> 00:51:23,460
distracting it would take people out of

1362
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,140
the absolutely the ability to be

1363
00:51:23,460 --> 00:51:26,460
friendly and interact with each other

1364
00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:28,140
they they'd start thinking well this

1365
00:51:26,460 --> 00:51:29,579
person's a monster because he's using

1366
00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:31,680
that language when of course he isn't

1367
00:51:29,579 --> 00:51:32,400
he's just a sergeant

1368
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:36,420
um

1369
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,980
yeah of course yeah we had um it's going

1370
00:51:36,420 --> 00:51:40,079
back many many years whom we used to

1371
00:51:37,980 --> 00:51:42,660
play in person I play I couldn't make it

1372
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:46,079
so somebody else

1373
00:51:42,660 --> 00:51:48,540
jumped in to get Jaeger there character

1374
00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:51,540
for a bit and they dropped

1375
00:51:48,540 --> 00:51:53,460
some inappropriate joke

1376
00:51:51,540 --> 00:51:55,980
and we'd never played black person again

1377
00:51:53,460 --> 00:51:57,839
uh it's been the moral of that story uh

1378
00:51:55,980 --> 00:52:01,440
because it was like okay that's

1379
00:51:57,839 --> 00:52:03,180
weird why would you do that in front of

1380
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,180
a majority of table people you don't

1381
00:52:03,180 --> 00:52:08,460
even know like

1382
00:52:05,180 --> 00:52:10,920
uh yeah so they they that was like yeah

1383
00:52:08,460 --> 00:52:12,119
we'll just have you don't your character

1384
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,619
won't be there if you can't make it

1385
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:18,300
again that's probably what we're gonna

1386
00:52:13,619 --> 00:52:19,260
do because that was an awkward situation

1387
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:22,079
um

1388
00:52:19,260 --> 00:52:24,480
but uh I want to get meta now I know we

1389
00:52:22,079 --> 00:52:26,700
started meta in a way with fudging and

1390
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,079
we'll end meta again

1391
00:52:26,700 --> 00:52:29,099
because one of the things I was thinking

1392
00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:31,380
about is

1393
00:52:29,099 --> 00:52:34,319
the show so thinking correctly and

1394
00:52:31,380 --> 00:52:36,359
boutique star

1395
00:52:34,319 --> 00:52:38,280
how do you feel that you maintain

1396
00:52:36,359 --> 00:52:41,839
Integrity of the show and now you're on

1397
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:44,760
your own you're free to cut loose uh and

1398
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:46,440
and talk from the heart but yeah like

1399
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,359
you know obviously you must have some

1400
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,280
core tenants or some core morals that

1401
00:52:48,359 --> 00:52:52,200
you wanna you wanna communicate or you

1402
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:54,420
want to exhibit so how do you stay true

1403
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,760
to to those

1404
00:52:54,420 --> 00:52:59,819
I I can't actually really take any

1405
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,680
credit for this because it's the guys

1406
00:52:59,819 --> 00:53:05,160
with the tech problems who do most of

1407
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:07,559
this but there are there are essentially

1408
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:11,599
two things we do

1409
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:15,420
which are the heart of everything

1410
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:17,579
one is we always agreed and we literally

1411
00:53:15,420 --> 00:53:20,640
discussed this before our very first

1412
00:53:17,579 --> 00:53:23,040
stream that we would just play exactly

1413
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:27,000
the same way as we do around our own

1414
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:29,940
table and we wouldn't change anything if

1415
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:32,460
it felt like we were playing up for the

1416
00:53:29,940 --> 00:53:35,240
camera or doing anything weird or trying

1417
00:53:32,460 --> 00:53:38,819
to be too exotic or anything like that

1418
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:40,859
that's not us so if we were playing

1419
00:53:38,819 --> 00:53:42,240
around a tabletop and you happen to be

1420
00:53:40,859 --> 00:53:43,920
sitting in the corner of the room it

1421
00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:46,260
would be very similar to what you would

1422
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:48,240
see on stream there are

1423
00:53:46,260 --> 00:53:50,579
some occasional sort of housekeeping

1424
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:52,380
bits on stream that don't exist around a

1425
00:53:50,579 --> 00:53:56,460
tabletop but others it's basically

1426
00:53:52,380 --> 00:53:58,440
exactly what you get so that is mostly

1427
00:53:56,460 --> 00:54:00,780
of course driven by the players because

1428
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,760
they are driving the narrative I'm

1429
00:54:00,780 --> 00:54:04,440
really only in charge of the background

1430
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,059
when it comes to Traveler

1431
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:09,180
but we also

1432
00:54:06,059 --> 00:54:12,059
all mix up what we do and take turns

1433
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:15,300
doing things so for tonight's

1434
00:54:12,059 --> 00:54:16,859
um night witch's game Luke is our GM and

1435
00:54:15,300 --> 00:54:18,480
I get to be a player

1436
00:54:16,859 --> 00:54:20,760
and

1437
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:23,040
all of us have had turns running games

1438
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:26,819
and playing in games

1439
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:28,740
and I think we're real Believers that we

1440
00:54:26,819 --> 00:54:31,079
want to try different things and

1441
00:54:28,740 --> 00:54:34,800
everything we do is

1442
00:54:31,079 --> 00:54:36,480
unscripted and completely on the fly as

1443
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:40,380
it happens

1444
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:44,220
and it works because the other two are

1445
00:54:40,380 --> 00:54:46,640
really genuinely lovely guys and I can

1446
00:54:44,220 --> 00:54:46,640
fake it

1447
00:54:48,059 --> 00:54:53,940
I I I'm a player in an actual play

1448
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:56,460
podcast as well which I consider my

1449
00:54:53,940 --> 00:54:57,780
night off for behind the scenes for the

1450
00:54:56,460 --> 00:54:59,280
listeners I always tell the guests

1451
00:54:57,780 --> 00:55:00,420
before we start recording consider this

1452
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,920
your night off from content creation

1453
00:55:00,420 --> 00:55:05,040
because I'm agile

1454
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:06,420
and that's how I see my dungeon starts

1455
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,040
indeed's actual play podcast because I'm

1456
00:55:06,420 --> 00:55:10,020
like I do all my podcast stuff during

1457
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:12,300
the week this is my time to

1458
00:55:10,020 --> 00:55:14,339
cut loose and just play D D with my

1459
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:16,559
friends and I'm very fortunate that it's

1460
00:55:14,339 --> 00:55:18,599
very similar to you guys in that

1461
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:21,300
for example DM of that game currently

1462
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:22,680
and who runs it and stuff man currently

1463
00:55:21,300 --> 00:55:24,300
makes it sound like he's gonna die or

1464
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,240
something no I'm I'm gonna potentially

1465
00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:30,540
take over in the future

1466
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:31,920
oh not for long um no uh he is he was

1467
00:55:30,540 --> 00:55:34,559
very keen from day one it's very similar

1468
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:36,839
to say we're still just gonna play D D

1469
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:39,300
there just will be a microphone in the

1470
00:55:36,839 --> 00:55:40,619
middle of the table and

1471
00:55:39,300 --> 00:55:42,000
I've got to be lying if I said there

1472
00:55:40,619 --> 00:55:44,280
wasn't a little bit of me that was like

1473
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,680
it's invariably Gonna Change like the

1474
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:49,559
nature of the game has changed

1475
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,640
but it actually hasn't really one of the

1476
00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:52,920
last sessions we had was probably the

1477
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,780
most fun I've ever had around a table

1478
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,579
and there's now a host of cameras and

1479
00:55:54,780 --> 00:55:58,500
tripods and stuff because they they

1480
00:55:56,579 --> 00:56:00,839
stream it as well

1481
00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:04,680
props to those guys for managing all of

1482
00:56:00,839 --> 00:56:07,140
that because I don't want to

1483
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:09,599
um and even still that's still like one

1484
00:56:07,140 --> 00:56:12,079
of the most fun we've ever had so

1485
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:15,180
it's nice to have a you know a kindred

1486
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:17,460
game where it's that quartet of like

1487
00:56:15,180 --> 00:56:19,280
it's still just us playing the game and

1488
00:56:17,460 --> 00:56:23,040
other people get to enjoy it as well

1489
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:25,380
yes yeah and I suppose that is the only

1490
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,480
thing that I would say really does have

1491
00:56:25,380 --> 00:56:28,680
a giant impact to what we do when we

1492
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,020
stream

1493
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,000
which is

1494
00:56:31,020 --> 00:56:35,339
the one thing that would never have

1495
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:38,099
happened without it is the ability to

1496
00:56:35,339 --> 00:56:41,099
interact with other people who many of

1497
00:56:38,099 --> 00:56:42,960
them have become regulars and friends

1498
00:56:41,099 --> 00:56:45,420
um through watching our streams and

1499
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:47,819
we've then uh spent time interacting

1500
00:56:45,420 --> 00:56:49,920
with them so we actually the one thing

1501
00:56:47,819 --> 00:56:52,140
we do that is different is we interact

1502
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,240
with chat on Twitch

1503
00:56:52,140 --> 00:56:57,180
and we have things set up and on our

1504
00:56:54,240 --> 00:57:00,059
stream so that the a viewer can like

1505
00:56:57,180 --> 00:57:03,000
name an NPC or give a character a boon

1506
00:57:00,059 --> 00:57:04,920
for a role which is the sort of traveler

1507
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:08,700
equivalent of enrolling with advantage

1508
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:10,440
and that uh that approach

1509
00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:12,300
uh

1510
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,940
I don't think it's actually materially

1511
00:57:12,300 --> 00:57:18,240
changed the Gameplay at all

1512
00:57:14,940 --> 00:57:20,040
but it has changed the

1513
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,960
the sort of social aspect around it

1514
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:24,960
somewhat I think we're still playing

1515
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:27,900
exactly the same way we would but we are

1516
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,520
we've got one eye on on comments and

1517
00:57:27,900 --> 00:57:30,960
messages from chat so that we can

1518
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,819
interact with other people because

1519
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:35,280
that's actually turned out to be one of

1520
00:57:32,819 --> 00:57:37,500
the really fun things and we got really

1521
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:40,260
really lucky there completely undeserved

1522
00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:42,839
in this regard but we've got a really

1523
00:57:40,260 --> 00:57:45,240
nice group of people who who come along

1524
00:57:42,839 --> 00:57:47,579
and cheer us on that's really sweet

1525
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:50,700
oh that's awesome well I can't think of

1526
00:57:47,579 --> 00:57:52,440
a of a nicer note to potentially end the

1527
00:57:50,700 --> 00:57:55,020
episode on but of course tradition

1528
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,280
dictates that I ask is there anything

1529
00:57:55,020 --> 00:57:58,559
that you wanted to talk about that we

1530
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:01,260
might have missed or not covered yet uh

1531
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:04,319
yes there is there is actually

1532
00:58:01,260 --> 00:58:07,319
um something uh since we were talking

1533
00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:09,240
about writing and you said you know it's

1534
00:58:07,319 --> 00:58:10,559
uh it's something that requires a lot of

1535
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,599
skill to do well

1536
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:15,240
there is a story and I have no idea if

1537
00:58:12,599 --> 00:58:17,940
it's actually true about the

1538
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:20,880
the poet wh Jordan

1539
00:58:17,940 --> 00:58:23,460
and apparently he was uh doing a talk

1540
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,359
and book signing at a at a place in New

1541
00:58:23,460 --> 00:58:27,359
York City

1542
00:58:24,359 --> 00:58:30,000
and he'd finished his chat and a bit of

1543
00:58:27,359 --> 00:58:32,579
a reading of his book

1544
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,619
and then afterwards a queue of people

1545
00:58:32,579 --> 00:58:36,240
formed to come along with books of his

1546
00:58:34,619 --> 00:58:38,940
for him to sign and

1547
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,619
make them out to to the people

1548
00:58:38,940 --> 00:58:44,280
and at the back of the queue there was

1549
00:58:40,619 --> 00:58:46,440
this woman dragging a profoundly bored

1550
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,720
looking sort of young girl I don't know

1551
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,640
exactly how old but a young girl

1552
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:52,319
and uh

1553
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,599
when they finally get to the front of

1554
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:57,420
the queue the girl looks decidedly

1555
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:59,579
unimpressed at Orton and her mother says

1556
00:58:57,420 --> 00:59:00,900
you know this is Mr Orden and he's a

1557
00:58:59,579 --> 00:59:02,819
great writer

1558
00:59:00,900 --> 00:59:05,520
and this little girl apparently looked

1559
00:59:02,819 --> 00:59:09,200
at him through squinted eyes and said

1560
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,200
can he do W's

1561
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:16,160
so seriously what makes a great writer

1562
00:59:12,359 --> 00:59:16,160
not necessarily what you think

1563
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,599
awesome thank you for that

1564
00:59:24,299 --> 00:59:29,700
cool well in that case then is there

1565
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:32,099
anything you would like to promote maybe

1566
00:59:29,700 --> 00:59:33,900
events that are occurring in the

1567
00:59:32,099 --> 00:59:36,000
imminent future I don't know off top of

1568
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:39,079
my head it's funny you should mention

1569
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:41,640
that just off the top of your head

1570
00:59:39,079 --> 00:59:44,400
it's almost as if you had no idea this

1571
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:46,619
was coming so we are the boys from the

1572
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:49,440
Baltic star and we have been streaming

1573
00:59:46,619 --> 00:59:51,020
on Twitch now for about two years just

1574
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:55,920
over two years I think

1575
00:59:51,020 --> 00:59:58,920
we stream usually traveler uh late night

1576
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:01,859
in the UK on Friday nights and then

1577
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:03,960
other tabletop RPGs on Saturday nights

1578
01:00:01,859 --> 01:00:05,940
but that's a sort of rotating selection

1579
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:09,059
of of different ones

1580
01:00:05,940 --> 01:00:11,640
Luke also usually plays a couple of

1581
01:00:09,059 --> 01:00:13,579
narrative video games uh typically on

1582
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:17,280
Fridays and Mondays

1583
01:00:13,579 --> 01:00:20,040
and there is one specific thing I should

1584
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:23,220
plug which is that next month on the

1585
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:26,099
18th and 19th of March we are having a

1586
01:00:23,220 --> 01:00:27,720
live in-person convention in a building

1587
01:00:26,099 --> 01:00:30,000
in fabrication called the assembly rooms

1588
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,619
I'm going to fill it with tables and

1589
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,359
we've got lots of really nice people

1590
01:00:31,619 --> 01:00:35,700
coming over to run all sorts of

1591
01:00:33,359 --> 01:00:38,760
different tabletop role-playing games

1592
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:40,920
and the town is lovely and if you're

1593
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,960
into your medieval fantasy stuff this is

1594
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,819
a medieval town you can actually wander

1595
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,079
around you know 400 500 year old

1596
01:00:44,819 --> 01:00:48,480
buildings and

1597
01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:51,240
explore the town it's it's good setting

1598
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:53,400
for this kind of thing and

1599
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:55,319
this is our first conventions first one

1600
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,660
we've ever done we are hopeful it's

1601
01:00:55,319 --> 01:00:59,700
going to go really well we've got really

1602
01:00:57,660 --> 01:01:02,700
nice people coming along to run games

1603
01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:04,260
and a huge variety of them so I hope I

1604
01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:05,579
hope people will take the opportunity to

1605
01:01:04,260 --> 01:01:08,400
look at what we've got

1606
01:01:05,579 --> 01:01:10,200
but also we've got some prize giveaways

1607
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,400
there and we've got a few you know nice

1608
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,040
things there's going to be opportunities

1609
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:16,380
to go out and have drinks and

1610
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:18,960
eat brunch brunch is a big thing on our

1611
01:01:16,380 --> 01:01:20,640
Channel brunch comes up a lot

1612
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,680
um so yes that's what I'd like to plug

1613
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:24,299
please 18th and 19th of March in

1614
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:26,160
faversham in Kent

1615
01:01:24,299 --> 01:01:28,500
um in England in the UK

1616
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:29,720
um we are we are on a folding a two-day

1617
01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:31,680
event

1618
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:34,619
and uh

1619
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:36,119
and hopefully people will come along and

1620
01:01:34,619 --> 01:01:39,480
it'll be enormous fun

1621
01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:41,640
well they maybe they'll even be a very

1622
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,760
very famous podcaster there who could

1623
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:46,920
say uh

1624
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:48,319
who could say you could say that no no

1625
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,700
no

1626
01:01:48,319 --> 01:01:51,680
I don't mean nothing to do with me uh

1627
01:01:50,700 --> 01:01:54,780
anyway

1628
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:56,819
so all that's left to say is thank you

1629
01:01:54,780 --> 01:01:59,819
ever so much Ben and of course the guys

1630
01:01:56,819 --> 01:02:01,920
for joining us today you're very welcome

1631
01:01:59,819 --> 01:02:03,540
um I'm sorry that since the subject was

1632
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:07,220
Integrity you were left with me because

1633
01:02:03,540 --> 01:02:10,559
the other two actually have some but

1634
01:02:07,220 --> 01:02:12,480
but the uh but it was enormous fun thank

1635
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:15,119
you so much for having us on on your

1636
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:17,099
show really appreciate it yeah so I got

1637
01:02:15,119 --> 01:02:20,299
I can only work with what I'm given so

1638
01:02:17,099 --> 01:02:20,299
you know it's uh yeah

1639
01:02:20,780 --> 01:02:24,780
uh yeah no worries as usual for the

1640
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:27,240
listeners at home uh all the links will

1641
01:02:24,780 --> 01:02:30,540
be in the episode description uh to the

1642
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:32,700
the favagam uh Expo is that the right

1643
01:02:30,540 --> 01:02:35,720
word experience maybe we're we're

1644
01:02:32,700 --> 01:02:37,740
calling it RP gaming faversham

1645
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,780
so all the links to that will be in the

1646
01:02:37,740 --> 01:02:42,119
episode description as well as the guys

1647
01:02:39,780 --> 01:02:44,520
stream so please go and check them out

1648
01:02:42,119 --> 01:02:47,040
drop them a follow otherwise all that's

1649
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:50,400
left to say is thank you everyone for

1650
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:52,140
listening and good night

1651
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,359
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1652
01:02:52,140 --> 01:02:57,000
outs huge thank you to all my patrons

1653
01:02:54,359 --> 01:02:59,400
starting with Josh lewinika and Glenn

1654
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,960
the three fabulous toasts of tabletop

1655
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,540
Journeys who've been on the show several

1656
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:06,059
times before and who I'll always invite

1657
01:03:03,540 --> 01:03:10,020
back to go check out tabletop Journeys

1658
01:03:06,059 --> 01:03:13,079
at ttjourneys.com or at TT Journeys on

1659
01:03:10,020 --> 01:03:15,780
Twitter we also have Joe from the fourth

1660
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:18,780
leg podcast book us all about giving DMS

1661
01:03:15,780 --> 01:03:20,460
another leg to stand on again previous

1662
01:03:18,780 --> 01:03:21,599
guests of the show and I'd thoroughly

1663
01:03:20,460 --> 01:03:24,119
encourage you to go and check out their

1664
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:26,220
great content so you can find them at

1665
01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:27,540
the fourthleg on Twitter

1666
01:03:26,220 --> 01:03:29,339
always have a good friend of the show

1667
01:03:27,540 --> 01:03:31,559
optional rule you can go and find him

1668
01:03:29,339 --> 01:03:34,140
out on optional rule.com or at optional

1669
01:03:31,559 --> 01:03:36,180
Rule full of very insightful and

1670
01:03:34,140 --> 01:03:39,660
educated comments and thoughts and

1671
01:03:36,180 --> 01:03:41,640
threads on the really nitty-gritty of

1672
01:03:39,660 --> 01:03:45,000
DnD we have

1673
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:46,440
what a guy Matthew Perkins who is just

1674
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:48,480
out there in the world trying to make

1675
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:51,960
you laugh let's go and check him out at

1676
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:55,799
Matthew perkins.net or at hey it's Matty

1677
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:57,839
P m-a-t-t-y-p and good friend of the

1678
01:03:55,799 --> 01:04:00,720
show and one of my table mates Matthew

1679
01:03:57,839 --> 01:04:04,380
Street go and check out his partner's

1680
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:08,000
hustle at virtualtime hustle.com or at

1681
01:04:04,380 --> 01:04:08,000
mp street88 on Twitter

1682
01:04:12,119 --> 01:04:16,619
[music]