Jan. 21, 2022

Hooks


This episode I'm joined by Mike from Games Played Badly, to chat about story hooks in your TTRPGs! Ultimately, hooks are the main way to keep players engaged, with the GM acting as a kind of circus master; organised chaos. Hooks can take many forms, from critical pieces of information reigniting interest, to fun and goofy NPCs that the players get attached to - there are many methods of putting the proverbial food on the plate. As much an art as it is a science, the fungineering of hooks is a delicate balance of maintaining verisimilitude while still being inherently contrived. Sometimes it's no fault of the game or the GM, players are human, and hooks are often necessary to just get the ball rolling. No one operates at 100% all of the time, and we often need a little nudge here and there. When in doubt, your biggest plot hook is your characters, so leverage the heck out of backstories, bonds, and ideals to really whet their appetites!

  • 2:09 - Bringing the Story to the Players
  • 13:24 - Pointing Players in the Right Direction
  • 38:33 - Tailoring Improvisation
  • 49:24 - Rebirth and Growth

Find Mike on:

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References:

Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 13.

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today's topic is hooks

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by mike from

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gamesplayedbadly thank you ever so much

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for joining us today mike can you tell

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us a little bit about yourself

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sure thanks for having me on this is

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unique because normally i don't get

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interviewed i'm the one doing the

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interviewing

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my name is mike i run a youtube channel

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called gamesplaybadly

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i'm also on twitter and facebook and all

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the other social media platforms but

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basically i run a um

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interview show called session zero where

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i interview ttrpg creators or creators

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in general to figure out

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how they do what they do why they do it

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and learn something about their product

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i've been playing uh

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table top role playing games for 30 some

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odd years

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started with d went through a bunch of

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the palladium systems tmnt

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uh palladium fantasy

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played some dc heroes all sorts of

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different stuff so and i'm also a big

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board gamer so i we have tons of board

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games that i like to play so i'm just a

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gamer in general

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i'm uh in chicago and

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um

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have been here my entire life and uh i

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decided that during the pandemic why not

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start creating something for other

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people to watch because i know we were

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all kind of uh isolated by ourselves and

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it also helped me kind of get through it

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as well

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likewise we are p's in a pod separated

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by the ocean it must have must have that

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that thought process must have happened

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at the same time something must have

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been a shooting star or something to

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me starting this podcast too

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uh but you know annoyed that's uh a

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little bit that you said you're a board

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gamer as well because now we can't talk

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about it because now we're recording we

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have to wait for the end of the episode

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as well so

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um anyway thank you so much for joining

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us today mike today today's topic is all

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about hooks so what does that mean to

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you in the d d and wider ttrpg framework

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well you know i mean as a dm you're

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always trying to find a way to engage a

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group especially if it's a new group

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with people who haven't played together

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before

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um and even with some established

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players who have kind of been around

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each other for a while uh it's for me i

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use it as a tool to bring people into

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the story or to help guide them to where

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i think their ultimate goal needs to be

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so

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um there's a term that people use called

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railroading

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i'm not a big railroad uh dm uh to an

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extent so if we're playing a module that

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was pre-written

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then there's obviously a goal there that

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needs to be completed for us to wrap

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that up so to some extent there is a

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railroad aspect of it you know all

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all roads lead to the end goal no matter

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which direction you go but you can have

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fun in the in the in the journey there

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so there will be side quests that will

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do and things that i'll make up and i

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mean most i would say

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75 percent of modules that i run

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um are actually me and the 25 is what

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the creator actually created and that's

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not against the creator themselves it's

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just

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you know sometimes things kind of fall

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off the tracks or

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a group decides that they want to do

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uh certain things that

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don't logically mesh

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with what was written and so therefore

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it it's a ripple effect

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and i'm a big and i hate to say this

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because it makes me sound boring but i'm

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a big logic guy

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so if logically something doesn't work

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then you know modifications have to be

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made to make sure that it it doesn't i

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don't want to pull people out of the

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fantasy

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i don't want to pull them out of the

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game and so therefore if i was to say

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you know okay you're going to go fight

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this dragon but you end up being

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ambushed by these orcs and then

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something else happens which it is

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completely in incongruous with

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everything else that's going on it

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makes players stop and think

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and um it takes them out of the role

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play it takes them out of the the the

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setting and so it's my job as a dm or

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the way that idm at least is to make

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sure that that illusion is continued

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that theater of the mind is completed

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without having any gaps or stops where

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people just kind of scratch their heads

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going that doesn't make sense

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and so that's where hooks come in for me

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is how can i bring people back in or how

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do i bring people in to begin with

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okay thank you i i am again

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very very similar in terms of i like

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keeping the world congruent that's a

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huge thing for me very very high up

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which is annoying when it comes up to

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things like economy and stuff because

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i'm very not qualified to deal with like

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money and stuff but i still like to try

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and keep it making sense

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but um yes that is very close to my own

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heart as well i i i try and stay away

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from weird things that are just

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completely bizarre or that you know if

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the players do something then they were

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the logic of the universe can only

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stretch so much to accommodate the

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players before

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something has to give or something has

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to change to to be like this is this

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yeah accommodating whatever they're

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getting up to at that particular time

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yeah i completely agree yeah yeah

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a it's a it's a it's a fine balance

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because you're you're looking at

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you know again if it's a pre-written

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module you want to kind of get to the

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end of it because right now a group that

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i'm running we're doing uh

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we're doing um two of annihilation which

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takes place in chult and it's a massive

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adventure it really is but they were

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coming out of keep over shadowfell and

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um i had highly customized that for them

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there was a lot of emotion built up into

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that there was a lot of yeah i mean

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there was physical crying throughout

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this process of kind of unraveling their

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characters you know and the where they

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started in 2013 and where they're at now

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are completely different there's it's a

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much more expanded universe you know so

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i built it around family family is a big

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deal for me so that was a really really

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interesting hook because you got to see

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how people dealt with

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um being maybe introduced to people they

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didn't know existed or people they

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thought were dead or so i mean it was it

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was kind of it was it was a little bit

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it was it's a little so boppery at times

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but it worked out really well and so

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we're coming out of that going to a tomb

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of annihilation you're looking okay how

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do i make this

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the same flavor but with a completely

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different

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backdrop with a completely different

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uh environment

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circumstances and so i had to write that

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transition

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and by doing so i think it worked out

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really well

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but what ended up happening is um

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my players in general tend to

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latch onto the smallest things

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and so if you're not prepared for that

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then it's if things fall flat so you

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know they always want to know an npc's

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name or they always want to know this so

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they always want to they want i always

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want to run out after the most mundane

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things that have nothing to do with the

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adventure but from the role-playing uh

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and fun side of it i i can't deny it

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because i love it i think it's great but

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then you have to you have to round you

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have to reign them all back in and say

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okay you're still

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you still have this main mission that

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you have to get to and so throughout

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this process um they started in uh 2013

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we started

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uh this group started playing none of us

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are my husband and i play um and our

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friends in iowa play and they were in

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for a weekend and so we played dnd all

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weekend they loved it and

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we

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kind of left it alone for a long time

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and so over the last two or three years

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we started playing again but we all play

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remotely so

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they really enjoyed their characters

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they really enjoyed what we were doing

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so i i had to go through and try and

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keep that sentiment from 2013

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uh and move it forward into the

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2017-2018-2019 time frame and uh it's

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been it's been really really interesting

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to watch

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but yeah so i mean now we're in

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charlotte completely different

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environment completely different goal uh

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and they've made a whole set of new

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friends they've made

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enemies of people who aren't really

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supposed to be enemies they just don't

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like them i mean it's just it's kind of

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fun to watch and so i don't

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stop them from doing that it's just i

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become almost like a ring master at a

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circus you know i'm just trying to keep

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things directed

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you know you can go ahead and do

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whatever you want to do but there's

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still an ultimate goal that you have to

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get to so yeah i just kind of shuffle

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them around but through that process i'm

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amazed at what they've

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made me write

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because it was so important to them

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uh and so i've written pages of stuff i

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mean i think the document that i have

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right now is like 200 pages of just

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notes and things like that of npcs and

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it's it's convoluted for me even i can't

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remember half these npcs

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so um yeah so and that's that's really

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where hooks do come in hooks come in to

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either bring someone into the story or

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to get them back on track

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and i think they're really important and

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it's really important the way that

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they're written because again if they're

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illogical

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then all of a sudden we have

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people not looking at their character

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sheet and not listening anymore now

266
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,720
they're in their heads going wait that

267
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,000
doesn't make sense and that just for me

268
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,279
that just ruins that and you can see it

269
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,000
on their face when that happens it's

270
00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:15,040
like the the fantasy collapses and now

271
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,720
you have to

272
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,120
you know really tap dance to kind of get

273
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,000
them back on track so yeah yeah life if

274
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,839
some random person turns up to deliver a

275
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,360
message or something it's like how did

276
00:09:23,839 --> 00:09:26,640
you get here and what are you doing here

277
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,680
and where did you come from and then

278
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,279
something's like i just got on the ship

279
00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:32,880
and i said well can we get a ship and

280
00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:34,080
suddenly it's there's there's all these

281
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,240
you know they're looking behind the

282
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,399
screen almost in the end the house of

283
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,839
the like western set house is just

284
00:09:38,399 --> 00:09:42,000
falling over because all you've got is a

285
00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:44,959
front facade and suddenly it's like ah

286
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,800
okay yeah we're living in this

287
00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:48,240
mockery they they have they have a

288
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,000
character like that that kind of follows

289
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,800
them around and

290
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,640
it's an npc that was in um keep over

291
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,160
shadowfell and his name was splurg he's

292
00:09:54,640 --> 00:10:00,240
a goblin

293
00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:02,640
and he's supposed to be nobody but he um

294
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,680
he was helping them for a nefarious

295
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,519
reason

296
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,640
but he got stabbed in the back by

297
00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:08,480
somebody and all of a sudden one of the

298
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,079
characters goes over and grabs him to

299
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,160
keep him from dying and heals him and

300
00:10:10,079 --> 00:10:13,040
all of a sudden in my mind i'm going

301
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,320
you know

302
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,920
this guy has now indebted to them

303
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,399
forever so splurge has become a part of

304
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,399
the kind of a part of their party

305
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,640
and uh he shows up at the weirdest spots

306
00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:24,399
because he's a fun character to play um

307
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,839
he's a fun for me to play and right now

308
00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:29,120
he's with the

309
00:10:25,839 --> 00:10:31,920
bentiri who are notorious party animals

310
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,839
uh they're also very deadly in combat

311
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,320
and he shows up at random places in

312
00:10:33,839 --> 00:10:40,000
chult uh and he just showed up and there

313
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,000
was a level of what are you doing here

314
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,839
there is a backstory to that that i've

315
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,440
written where he's actually been tasked

316
00:10:43,839 --> 00:10:46,560
with following them to make sure they're

317
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,560
okay

318
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,880
because he's reporting back to a bigger

319
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:53,360
organization that they're part of so

320
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,680
he's been shadowing them since day one

321
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,760
and uh so when he when he shows up

322
00:10:55,680 --> 00:11:00,320
there's always that kind of head scratch

323
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,160
yeah but i always kind of end it with

324
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,000
you know i get around

325
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,000
yes uh you know whatever and i think the

326
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,760
last time through he was like hey you

327
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,880
know what i gotta keep i keep an eye on

328
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,600
you guys

329
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,200
and uh that kind of laid that

330
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,760
light bulb dimming moment where they're

331
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,120
like what the hell you know

332
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,480
so yeah it's always tap dancing

333
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,480
sometimes you know with this stuff so

334
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,480
yeah no i i have

335
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,800
they they have a goblin friend in my

336
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,399
game as well uh who they kind of

337
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,480
elevated to

338
00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:29,680
minor deity status in his community

339
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,040
because he was like the cool one that

340
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:32,399
got to speak to the adventurers and who

341
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,480
the adventurers gave him a big scar

342
00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:36,720
across his face and now he's like

343
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,720
you know all the rest think he's you

344
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,880
know the chosen one essentially

345
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,839
and they bumped him to him again

346
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,279
and from my point of view it was just a

347
00:11:43,839 --> 00:11:46,880
like let's bring back you know let's

348
00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:49,519
have a recurring npc wouldn't it be

349
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,480
funny if they bumped into him here and

350
00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:51,600
in my head i was like it kind of

351
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,440
logically makes sense because there's

352
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,320
some longer term plans i've got going so

353
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,720
i think

354
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,920
that'll make sense but then immediately

355
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,120
some of them were like what are the

356
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,040
chances

357
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,959
we don't trust you this is suspicious

358
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,480
why would we have just random

359
00:12:02,959 --> 00:12:06,399
just sometimes you just gotta take

360
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,399
things on face value guys

361
00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:10,320
yeah sometimes the cigar is just a cigar

362
00:12:08,399 --> 00:12:12,160
yes exactly

363
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,360
that's we i have i have a character in

364
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,880
uh

365
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,040
in the group right now her name is uh

366
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:20,480
she plays a character called indigo blue

367
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:23,360
but um she is notoriously

368
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:25,279
distrustful of everybody and immediately

369
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,760
it's like it's like her her distrust

370
00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:30,959
level is the default and you really have

371
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,320
to work hard to win her over and so

372
00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:33,839
while that can be fun to roleplay it

373
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,519
could be very frustrating as a dm when

374
00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:37,600
you're trying to slog through stuff it's

375
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:40,160
like okay i'm sorry i can't i'm not

376
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:43,040
going to pull my badge or my credentials

377
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:45,200
or you know please feel to you or kiss

378
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,279
your tootsies you know because you know

379
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,800
but it's it's one of those things where

380
00:12:47,279 --> 00:12:50,160
when you don't have things going on it's

381
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,040
a lot of fun to role play but sometimes

382
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,680
when you're trying to get through

383
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:56,399
content it can be a little bit of a slog

384
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:57,839
yeah i know that feeling all too well

385
00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:59,200
when after the session i've been like

386
00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:02,560
guys like

387
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,560
stop interrogating children

388
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,880
i guess that i guess there's

389
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,959
theoretically a slim chance they might

390
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,240
be assassins but

391
00:13:08,959 --> 00:13:11,440
like do you really want to live your

392
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,639
lives like

393
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,920
operating on them running down the

394
00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:15,279
street shaking every child by the

395
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,399
shoulders going who do you work yeah

396
00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:18,480
tell me who you are

397
00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:21,200
who do you work for

398
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,839
uh so yeah no i very much uh uh yeah i

399
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,120
feel empathize with that for sure

400
00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:26,480
one of the one of the interesting things

401
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,320
there that i wanted to pick up on that

402
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,480
you mentioned was one of the

403
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,600
interpretations of hooks you mentioned

404
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,880
was

405
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,920
bringing

406
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:39,600
players back you know more aligned with

407
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,279
some end goal right and they know that

408
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,279
it's less prominent that the kind of

409
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:44,639
schism between like railroading and not

410
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:47,040
railroading in

411
00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:49,360
linear campaigns and freeform campaigns

412
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,680
is less pronounced than maybe

413
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,199
pop culture would like you to think but

414
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:55,360
i imagine some people out there are

415
00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:58,160
probably thinking like why

416
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,839
the dm shouldn't do that the dm you know

417
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,600
the players want to go

418
00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:03,519
off the beaten course and we should just

419
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,040
let them so i wondered what your

420
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:07,519
thoughts are on that and then

421
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,519
specifically the use of hooks to

422
00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:10,800
in this case like bring them back you

423
00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:14,320
know point them in the right direction

424
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:16,240
as it were so um yeah i i actually am in

425
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,760
complete agreement of letting someone do

426
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,360
whatever they want to do i mean for

427
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,199
instance temple of elemental evil i

428
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,959
don't think i've ever played more than

429
00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:24,560
three or four levels like dungeon before

430
00:14:22,959 --> 00:14:25,760
the group just got bored and we just

431
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,760
bolted

432
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,279
now if a group is

433
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,600
struggling with content because the

434
00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:34,480
content is badly written

435
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,320
and and that is either through my

436
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,440
uh through my doing or through the

437
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:41,760
modules doing so for instance um to move

438
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,279
uh annihilation is is a great

439
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,680
it's a great framework but i feel like

440
00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:47,120
there are some there are a lot of fiddly

441
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,320
bits in there it's very games that

442
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,760
thrones you from the standpoint there

443
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,279
are a lot of names a lot of houses a lot

444
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,720
of this a lot of that

445
00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:54,880
and so i slimmed it down a little bit

446
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,360
just because i didn't want to have

447
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,800
to go through all of that

448
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,920
um i know that they weren't going to

449
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,639
enjoy that

450
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:04,160
uh and so i made it a little bit more

451
00:15:02,639 --> 00:15:06,240
streamlined so that way they didn't have

452
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:09,680
to know everything about everything and

453
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:11,600
things are divulged um when i use hooks

454
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,760
my hook is divulging a critical piece of

455
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,079
information that they may have missed

456
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,839
um so i mean as dms we've all done that

457
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:19,519
where we've had a you know there's a

458
00:15:17,839 --> 00:15:21,199
clue right here and you guys just walk

459
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:23,760
right past it or

460
00:15:21,199 --> 00:15:26,720
uh didn't think it was viable and so

461
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,959
there are times when i will use that as

462
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,000
a hook to reignite

463
00:15:28,959 --> 00:15:32,000
interest

464
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,759
um i'm not if you know as a matter of

465
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,680
fact one of the characters in in the

466
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:36,959
tomb of an inauguration group is like

467
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,720
one of the one of the hooks that i used

468
00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:41,199
was that his mom was actually suffering

469
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,120
from the the withering because she's

470
00:15:41,199 --> 00:15:45,759
next adventure and had been resurrected

471
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:48,800
and was kind of dwindling um as kind of

472
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:50,480
a hook and a motivation um to move on

473
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,920
this quickly because there's the one

474
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,720
thing i don't like about that module is

475
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,320
there's a timetable and it's unrealistic

476
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,560
when you're going through a basically

477
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,079
unexplored island so

478
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,880
i had to make some modifications there

479
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:02,880
but

480
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,959
as far as hooks go i use it you know

481
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,959
people are kind of off the beaten path

482
00:16:04,959 --> 00:16:08,000
and they're still in the module and they

483
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:09,360
still want to complete it but they're

484
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,120
just kind of lost

485
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,480
rather than wasting hours and making

486
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,560
people frustrated because they can't

487
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,920
figure something out i'll drop a

488
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,600
breadcrumb

489
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,720
uh and see if they pick up on it so

490
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,000
maybe less hook more breadcrumb yeah and

491
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,399
also you know there are times where

492
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,880
people misinterpret something and i

493
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:29,920
understand that it's okay to let

494
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,839
characters be characters but sometimes

495
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,680
you can see a greater good

496
00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:35,199
um that's going to come out of this and

497
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,360
you don't want them to give up that

498
00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:39,920
quickly so i use things to kind of

499
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,079
motivate them to keep going you know for

500
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,399
instance a tomb of annihilation has a

501
00:16:42,079 --> 00:16:46,240
bunch of um every everything at the end

502
00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:47,519
is all a puzzle of some sort and one of

503
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,680
the characters in general was getting

504
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:50,880
really frustrating it was it took them

505
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,120
several hours to get through some of

506
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,560
these temples with the with the

507
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,160
all the and it wasn't that they were

508
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,079
that far off

509
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,839
and so you know those bread crumbs are

510
00:16:58,079 --> 00:17:01,040
left so that way you know i don't want

511
00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:02,320
frustrated players we're all there to

512
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,720
have a good time

513
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,839
so i i know what they're on to i know

514
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:10,240
that they're close you know a well-timed

515
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:12,079
npc going hey what about this kind of

516
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,919
saves a group and it saves the adventure

517
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:16,000
because otherwise you end up with people

518
00:17:13,919 --> 00:17:17,679
who don't want to play anymore

519
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,319
and so i use these to kind of help

520
00:17:17,679 --> 00:17:21,760
massage the group into

521
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,039
a place where they feel like they're

522
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,520
really accomplishing something because

523
00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:27,520
they are i mean that this entire thing i

524
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,480
mean this entire adventure has been one

525
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,080
big

526
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,880
massive

527
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,559
campaign of just just jungle and all

528
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,080
those other stuff so i don't want them

529
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:37,919
to just give up

530
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,600
you know i mean and i don't want i don't

531
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:40,640
want the module to beat to beat it out

532
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,120
of them and that's what kind of this

533
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,880
module does it'll just beat you down

534
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:46,480
and so i've made modifications so that

535
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,400
way you know we don't get a chance to

536
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,400
play very often so the time that we get

537
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,840
to spend together i want to be enjoyable

538
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,520
mm-hmm you want to extract the most

539
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,039
value out of those couple of hours as

540
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,720
you can right without it i'm not real

541
00:17:55,039 --> 00:18:00,720
reading i'm i'm i'm fungi

542
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,880
you know i mean i'm trying to make sure

543
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,960
that everyone has a good time i i want

544
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,280
it it is challenging they've almost died

545
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,120
several times this next adventure that

546
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,200
they're going on this next little piece

547
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:13,039
is very dangerous and they're

548
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,280
really excited about doing it but it's

549
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:17,280
going to be it's going to be difficult

550
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,480
and if people die people die i mean

551
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,799
that's just kind of the way this is

552
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,400
going to run but um when this is all

553
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:23,760
over with we're transitioning to my

554
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,360
homebrew world

555
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,000
um and that's all being written right

556
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,360
now um and it's it's uh that's a whole

557
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,799
other thing but yeah and and that's

558
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:33,679
where more hooks are going to come in i

559
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:35,840
mean i i look at how how how are we

560
00:18:33,679 --> 00:18:37,200
going to build interest in doing what

561
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,720
needs to be done

562
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,559
to convert or make it logical um and so

563
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,360
there are things that i put out there

564
00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:45,120
that

565
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:46,720
may entice people to do certain things

566
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,160
you know so

567
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,840
no i think i think

568
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,080
that is

569
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,559
the the nuance there from a dms point of

570
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,280
view of knowing when is the right time

571
00:18:54,559 --> 00:19:00,720
to have those nudges and to have those

572
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,559
reminders and those breadcrumbs

573
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,280
that is the skill that is that that is

574
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:07,360
the hard thing to get experience in and

575
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,720
to learn when it's the good time to do

576
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,799
that like

577
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,240
it's it's the lesser evil now because

578
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:14,160
the bigger evil is my players are

579
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,840
disinterested and bored and they don't

580
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,080
know what's happening so it's actually a

581
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,280
lesser evil now to be like let me help

582
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,919
you get

583
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,679
back on track uh versus

584
00:19:21,919 --> 00:19:25,919
you know the the other extreme of being

585
00:19:23,679 --> 00:19:27,919
like no this npc won't talk to you

586
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:30,480
unless you ask the you know the specific

587
00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:32,320
questions yes and like i haven't there's

588
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,919
outside of going and getting the cat

589
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,440
down from the tree there's nothing else

590
00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:39,919
for you to do uh so yeah see like living

591
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,679
on that sliding scale as a dm which is

592
00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:43,440
which is it is you know moment to moment

593
00:19:41,679 --> 00:19:45,760
it's a sliding scale session to session

594
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,520
party to party i think that is the

595
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,720
that is hard

596
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,440
but where

597
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,480
where you get the good dm's is who can

598
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,080
who can

599
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,360
slide that scale in such a way that it

600
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,480
keeps everybody and even another level

601
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,080
on top

602
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,159
where that scale isn't visible to the

603
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,080
players and they can't tell where

604
00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:05,919
breadcrumbs have been dropped or whether

605
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,679
you know that brickron was there all day

606
00:20:05,919 --> 00:20:09,200
and it's been stale because it was there

607
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:10,000
from day one and

608
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,600
right

609
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,880
and then that is i mean i again you hit

610
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,720
the nail on the head

611
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,679
what what the with the deal with the dm

612
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,120
is to not let the party know that you're

613
00:20:17,679 --> 00:20:21,760
doing that that this has always been

614
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:24,720
there they just discovered it yeah um

615
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,400
and uh those and for if any of my

616
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,080
players are listening this happens

617
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,280
occasionally it's not all the time don't

618
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,280
get mad at me

619
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,880
um but i mean there there are moments

620
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,400
where i'm like okay they need a little

621
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,559
bit of a push or they needed this or

622
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,240
that you know and it's just and also you

623
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:39,919
have to look at it not everyone's on

624
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,640
every day you know it's like you know we

625
00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:42,080
we

626
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,400
we're all human beings when we're

627
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,480
playing some people have had a bad day

628
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,720
um you know you have to take the you

629
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,559
have to read the room on

630
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,600
some of this stuff and again that is

631
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:54,400
where that

632
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:56,799
massaging of the story and the players

633
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,679
comes in because you don't i've been

634
00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:01,679
adversely affected by negative

635
00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:03,600
attitudes when i dm

636
00:21:01,679 --> 00:21:05,360
and so it just kind of it kind of ruins

637
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,799
my experience too when people are

638
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,799
negative about something and i'm going

639
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:10,960
oh did i screw something up i mean

640
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:12,320
what's going on is this boring you know

641
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,280
it just turns out somebody's having a

642
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,720
bad day the key i think for any dm is to

643
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,240
realize you're not just dm'ing for them

644
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,840
you're dealing for the rest of the group

645
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,000
yeah so if they're having a bad day and

646
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:24,559
they're not having a good time then let

647
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,480
them not have a good time or don't focus

648
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:27,520
on that focus on the other people who

649
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,039
are having

650
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,960
a good time and who really want to play

651
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:32,720
i mean and it's it's through no fault of

652
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,880
anybody it's i mean i don't blame the

653
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,280
player because again we all have

654
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,720
you know bad days and and even though we

655
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,600
think we want to play we're just not

656
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,400
really into it and it stinks sometimes

657
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,320
but

658
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,600
i'm gonna tell you it's it's a fact of

659
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:49,919
life and um as a dm it's that's another

660
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,159
part of your job is to re read the room

661
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:53,280
and see how players are interacting and

662
00:21:52,159 --> 00:21:54,880
for those players who may not

663
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,120
necessarily be into it don't focus on

664
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,640
them yeah let's let them roll dice let

665
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:00,559
them kill stuff

666
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,080
don't force them to role play don't

667
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:04,240
force them to do anything don't force

668
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,320
them to interact that you know maybe all

669
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,960
they need to do or what they really need

670
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,880
is just to be in a room full of their

671
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,360
friends and just sit there and

672
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,400
laugh and they may not actually want the

673
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:16,559
full

674
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,480
dnd experience and so you kind of have

675
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:20,080
to move on from that and it it's it took

676
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,919
my husband telling me

677
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,480
several times because i've dm for

678
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:26,720
multiple multiple groups and idm for a

679
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,880
group that was uh eight or nine people

680
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,400
at one point and it was huge and there

681
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,880
were there were so many different

682
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,640
dynamics as far as personality goes it

683
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,320
really it threw me off it threw the rest

684
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,919
of the players off

685
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,480
it just it was kind of a shambles and

686
00:22:37,919 --> 00:22:42,559
again that's a job of a dm is to kind of

687
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,480
herd the cats you know get everybody

688
00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:46,720
back and whether it's the same and when

689
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,640
i say same page or the same path it's

690
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,240
not necessarily the same path as far as

691
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,440
let's get to this mission it's also the

692
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,080
same path

693
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,159
is are we having fun yeah you know

694
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,080
what's what can we do to make sure we're

695
00:22:56,159 --> 00:23:00,000
all having fun and sometimes there are

696
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,919
some people who just don't want to deal

697
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,600
with it but they want to be there

698
00:23:01,919 --> 00:23:05,919
either out of obligation or otherwise

699
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:09,039
and that's fine but i can't i've got to

700
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:11,280
realize that i can't let that ruin as

701
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:13,360
soon as the dm goes down the entire

702
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,400
party goes down yeah i mean

703
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:17,039
so

704
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,960
i know exactly what you mean uh with

705
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:21,200
regards to different players different

706
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,240
types and and being sat at the table for

707
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,320
different reasons and the vibe of

708
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,720
of who they are and very much like

709
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,880
if they've had a long day or a stressful

710
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,360
day or whatnot and they

711
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,679
they're they're coming very much to in

712
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:38,080
the most purest definition like a player

713
00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:39,679
game and not like i don't want to go on

714
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,440
a journey i don't want to have to deal

715
00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:42,400
with like moral quandaries i just kind

716
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,360
of want to

717
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,200
have

718
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:47,600
you know sword and board fantasy for a

719
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,039
couple of hours and um

720
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,720
and one of the i was out with a with a

721
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:53,120
few drinks with my players last night

722
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,960
actually and um who's i don't know i

723
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:56,240
just got to say like i just want to

724
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,440
firstly say you know thank you for

725
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,120
running the game everything you do

726
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,600
because the last couple of sessions i

727
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:03,679
want to apologize because i've just been

728
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,200
you know really quiet and i it might

729
00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:06,559
seem like i'm not into it but i want to

730
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,640
assure you that i absolutely am it's

731
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:11,520
just i was like man i get it

732
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,240
you you are up at like 5 a.m

733
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,679
and

734
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,520
you're on the road you know traveling

735
00:24:13,679 --> 00:24:18,880
for like three hours every day

736
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,320
i like that's totally fine it's i i know

737
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,919
and you i'm more than happy for you to

738
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,360
just sit back and listen

739
00:24:21,919 --> 00:24:25,200
and that and that's fine i'm just happy

740
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,559
that you turn up yes so that was very

741
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,400
nice to hear from it from a dm's point

742
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:29,600
of view uh and and i think it's always

743
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,440
it's always healthy to have those kind

744
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,279
of discussions and have you know if

745
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,960
you're fortunate enough like i am to

746
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:38,159
have those kind of players that are like

747
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:41,440
hey i value you but just to let you know

748
00:24:38,159 --> 00:24:43,279
i'm knackered so i might be uh

749
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,440
you know a bit a bit quieter

750
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:47,840
man dude that's totally fine and that's

751
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,840
and that's i i love when players do that

752
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,360
i mean it just it's

753
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,559
so you know everyone looks at the dm

754
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,720
like

755
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:57,279
i'm not sure how people perceive dms

756
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,679
when they're dming but um you know we're

757
00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:01,520
people we're characters we're we're

758
00:24:59,679 --> 00:25:03,360
playing characters we're with you we're

759
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,039
trying to have a good time too

760
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,400
and um you know i've had people come

761
00:25:05,039 --> 00:25:08,159
back and apologize and say hey you know

762
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,840
what i apologize last week i just wasn't

763
00:25:08,159 --> 00:25:12,080
into it and it's fine

764
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,960
here's the thing is it was my reaction

765
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,120
was not their fault that was my fault

766
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,640
um i'd let their their

767
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,679
whatever they were going through affect

768
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,840
me

769
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:23,600
and i can't you know and so i'm i'm

770
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,120
growing i'm learning i mean i've dm for

771
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,440
a very long time

772
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,039
but it's still one of those things where

773
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,320
you know you you're you feel like you're

774
00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:31,760
letting people down if they're not

775
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,159
having a good time and you have to

776
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,679
realize that it's not initially on you

777
00:25:34,159 --> 00:25:37,919
you know you're presenting the material

778
00:25:35,679 --> 00:25:39,600
and if people aren't if you know some

779
00:25:37,919 --> 00:25:41,360
people aren't enjoying it then you know

780
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,520
it's it's a bad day for them or they're

781
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:45,360
going through something or whatever but

782
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,000
my biggest my biggest takeaway from that

783
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,360
was don't punish the other players

784
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,640
you know make sure you're there and

785
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,480
you're present for the rest of the

786
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,720
players and you know just kind of ease

787
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,400
off whoever is not having a good time or

788
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,840
whoever may not necessarily be engaging

789
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,080
don't force them to engage when they

790
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,919
don't want to and there i can tell you

791
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,039
there are days where people are like i

792
00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:04,799
can see it in their eyes they're just

793
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:06,559
looking they're looking for a fight they

794
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:07,520
want some hack and slash combat they

795
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:08,640
don't want to have to worry about the

796
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,000
role play

797
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,799
my uh my adventures tend to get very

798
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,200
deep

799
00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:16,640
you know lots of emotions lots of

800
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,559
connections

801
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,159
and so that can be tiring and i get it

802
00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:21,039
especially when you have your own real

803
00:26:20,159 --> 00:26:22,720
life

804
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:24,480
with all those exact same things going

805
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,240
on it almost feels like a second family

806
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,720
and it's like uh i'm not ready for that

807
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,400
tonight you know so i get it yeah indeed

808
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,600
yeah and in the same way some people

809
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,790
need a break from their own actual

810
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,480
families so uh

811
00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:36,320
[Laughter]

812
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,360
well i have this other group where i and

813
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,840
i

814
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:41,679
they we have a group called um

815
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,600
the shifting table and these are all

816
00:26:41,679 --> 00:26:44,960
people i met on twitter and i was able

817
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,720
to wrote my husband in to come playing

818
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,960
because he wasn't initially interested

819
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,799
but we're doing um

820
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,400
a dungeon of the mad mage and so what

821
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:53,840
we're doing is called the shifting table

822
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,840
because we all

823
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,600
uh dm different levels

824
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,960
um and what i love about these guys is

825
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,799
these guys there's there's definitely

826
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,279
role play in there there's definitely

827
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:05,279
but i mean it's it's it's far more let's

828
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:06,720
get through this and kill some stuff and

829
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:08,720
it's kind of refreshing because i don't

830
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,400
really have to worry about it i just i

831
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,799
go in there i roll some dice i kill some

832
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,880
stuff we you know huzzah yeah we got

833
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:17,200
some magic items we're good and so it's

834
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,640
it's a different play style and um

835
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,039
that's the one thing i want anybody

836
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,880
who's listening just because you dm

837
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:24,480
differently does not make make it that

838
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,480
you dm wrong

839
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,559
um uh just because idm differently

840
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,799
doesn't make me wrong uh we all have our

841
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:32,320
own play styles based off of

842
00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:33,679
hopefully you're reading your own group

843
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,760
and playing off their strengths and

844
00:27:33,679 --> 00:27:37,200
weaknesses so what i'm saying here

845
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,720
hopefully is not offensive to anyone

846
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,240
because they don't agree with me but

847
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,919
just understand that i have a different

848
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,760
group and uh this is the way that we

849
00:27:41,919 --> 00:27:45,679
play and you know you have your group

850
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,720
and you play your way mm-hmm yeah

851
00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:50,080
absolutely um to bring us back to hooks

852
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,760
a little bit something we talked about

853
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,919
earlier on around those those

854
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,159
breadcrumbs and stuff and and i want to

855
00:27:53,919 --> 00:27:58,080
get your thoughts on how i ran

856
00:27:56,159 --> 00:27:59,919
something a little while ago uh in the

857
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,200
previous previous chapter of my campaign

858
00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:04,320
i have talked about it before on the

859
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,360
show where my players were

860
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,760
in

861
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:10,000
a valley that was

862
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,679
part of the lair the domain uh you know

863
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,520
including all the environmental effects

864
00:28:11,679 --> 00:28:15,440
of a green dragon so it was like a

865
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,840
labyrinthine forest a thick blanket of

866
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,960
fog very low visibility

867
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,640
you know the critters that were running

868
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,720
only small critters left because all the

869
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,080
larger creatures had been eaten and that

870
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,440
kind of stuff

871
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,720
and they'd come across an abandoned

872
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,679
camp

873
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:34,559
uh at the kind of uh the end of a river

874
00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:36,880
so a lake uh pooled into a small lake

875
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:38,480
banner camp they found a map

876
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,399
uh that was

877
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,840
admittedly this is a shortcoming on my

878
00:28:40,399 --> 00:28:46,720
part was it was very poorly drawn by me

879
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:49,440
did digitally um so perhaps that

880
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,600
uh exacerbated a few issues but broadly

881
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,799
there was a line of blue you know two

882
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,880
lines

883
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,480
to suggest that the boundaries of the

884
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,320
valley if you will you know before you

885
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,120
start hitting the steep incline of the

886
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:04,000
mountains on either side uh a

887
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,960
uh yeah blue line that ended in a big a

888
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,440
bigger blue circle which i'd hoped

889
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,399
implied that the presence of the lake

890
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,840
yep uh and then i think like a little

891
00:29:12,399 --> 00:29:16,080
bonfire sign or something and then

892
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,520
basically the other end so like the uh

893
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,399
the waterfall

894
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,520
of this river had a big red circle

895
00:29:20,399 --> 00:29:23,440
around it

896
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,520
so my intention was that the players

897
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,960
would go okay we're here

898
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,159
we're kind of on the trail of these

899
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,840
people anyway

900
00:29:28,159 --> 00:29:32,320
they've put a big red circle around here

901
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,120
presumably is their destination

902
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,919
let's follow the river

903
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,880
they

904
00:29:35,919 --> 00:29:39,279
got

905
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,360
in a complete twist of

906
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:42,880
you know directions cardinal directions

907
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,880
it was are we heading north east east

908
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,039
are we heading northwest east or you

909
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,799
know like you know south by southeast or

910
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,840
something like that and they get all up

911
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:51,679
in there well if that was there and

912
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,559
we've traveled here and this that and

913
00:29:51,679 --> 00:29:53,760
the other

914
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:55,120
and

915
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,760
i let them

916
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,679
get lost in game for like two hours

917
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,799
essentially and the reason i'm bringing

918
00:29:59,679 --> 00:30:02,880
this up is what you were talking about

919
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:04,240
earlier on like where trying to find

920
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,640
that line in the sand to be like okay

921
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,760
now enough is enough and they need they

922
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,000
need some help well actually there's

923
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,320
there's two solutions to this

924
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,760
one is i could have

925
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,399
reconfigured the

926
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,320
geography to have their destination be

927
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:20,320
somewhere else and

928
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,279
you know changed a few bits and bobs and

929
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:26,720
made it so hey you did go the right way

930
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:28,320
in the end congratulations or i

931
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,440
could have had some breadcrumb trails to

932
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,480
suggest they go back in the right

933
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,480
direction

934
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,760
what actually happened was

935
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,120
they i was like okay you walking that

936
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,200
way and it's you know it's hot it's

937
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,360
stifling it's you know you're cutting

938
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,200
your legs on bushes and branches

939
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,039
you walk and walk and walk like two

940
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,399
hours passes in game

941
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,440
you're still just at the bottom of the

942
00:30:44,399 --> 00:30:47,039
valley because they were they were

943
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,440
heading along the valley floor

944
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:51,520
essentially in the same direction and it

945
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,200
took them them until that point to be

946
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,960
like all right okay

947
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,519
maybe we've gone in the wrong direction

948
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,880
let's maybe look at the map again and

949
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:00,399
oh if that's the river then maybe we

950
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,480
should have followed the river and i was

951
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:03,679
like maybe i don't know

952
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,120
dude

953
00:31:03,679 --> 00:31:07,200
what are you going to do now

954
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,679
and so then to trek two hours back in

955
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,720
the other direction and uh

956
00:31:09,679 --> 00:31:13,440
and then eventually they followed the

957
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,600
river and they got to the end so now i

958
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,519
i'm like torn is that railroady direct

959
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,600
like the end of the river the waterfall

960
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:21,120
is like the only destination and and

961
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,279
they have to go there you know i'm not

962
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,640
sure which is the best what is the best

963
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:25,760
route when when you have that kind of

964
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,640
here's a hook

965
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,320
abandoned camp map to your destination

966
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,600
it's a yeah misinterpreted battery yeah

967
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,720
and it's just either misinterpreted or

968
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:37,360
not understood and do i you know is it

969
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,080
is it god forbid railroading if i had

970
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,600
put

971
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,279
their destination in the direction

972
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,799
they'd chosen to travel or is that is

973
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:43,919
that good because it stops them getting

974
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:47,200
lost or is that bad because it's

975
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:50,000
railroading like i don't i don't know

976
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,320
yeah that's a really tough one i mean i

977
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,799
i tend to um

978
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,039
i tend to try to avoid some of those

979
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:59,039
ambiguous situations so you know for me

980
00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:00,159
on the map i would have had

981
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:02,320
there's something there's something

982
00:32:00,159 --> 00:32:03,760
definitely recognizable that that tells

983
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,640
them that they're going the right way

984
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,840
okay

985
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,440
so that way you know if they're

986
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,640
traveling and they're looking at the map

987
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,799
and they're like we're supposed to go in

988
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,320
this direction but we're not seeing this

989
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:15,200
if they don't recognize what i put on

990
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:17,760
the map as as a potential marker then

991
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,559
it's on them but sometimes i'll do that

992
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,480
when

993
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:22,720
especially in this particular uh

994
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,240
adventure it's it's one big unexplored

995
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,000
four so everything pretty much looks the

996
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,519
same i mean it's four's four's four four

997
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,799
fours for as long as the i can see you

998
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,240
know

999
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:32,640
i would have possibly done that but i

1000
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,279
think you i mean how much real time did

1001
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:38,080
they spend farting around um

1002
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:40,559
i think if we include

1003
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,360
from basically finding the map to

1004
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:45,919
getting to the destination an hour

1005
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,320
uh which maybe would have been like

1006
00:32:45,919 --> 00:32:49,440
10 minutes had they just gone okay we

1007
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,720
need to follow the river and then i

1008
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,960
woulda gone you follow the river here's

1009
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,559
some narration here's what happens but

1010
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,399
instead of all the faffing around plus

1011
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:57,679
the narration of getting lost and coming

1012
00:32:56,399 --> 00:32:59,200
back and

1013
00:32:57,679 --> 00:33:01,360
when they returned to the camp there was

1014
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,720
a bit more so it was about an hour i

1015
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,200
would say

1016
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,159
quote unquote lost game time

1017
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,679
sure

1018
00:33:06,159 --> 00:33:09,120
yeah i mean i there are a couple

1019
00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:10,399
different ways that i i mean again

1020
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,640
putting a landmark on the map so that

1021
00:33:10,399 --> 00:33:14,159
way they kind of learn on their own or

1022
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,679
they don't that they're going in the

1023
00:33:14,159 --> 00:33:18,159
wrong direction

1024
00:33:15,679 --> 00:33:20,480
the other would be a

1025
00:33:18,159 --> 00:33:22,000
maybe a passive perception check that

1026
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,440
they see

1027
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,640
footprints leading off in the opposite

1028
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,720
direction

1029
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,039
as another way to kind of give them a

1030
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,720
little bit of a push yeah you know it

1031
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:33,200
just it could have gone either way but

1032
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,640
here's the thing is i mean and and i i

1033
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,760
think this is an interesting experience

1034
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,679
because when the next time they get a

1035
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,600
map they're going to think twice

1036
00:33:37,679 --> 00:33:41,519
or they won't

1037
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,200
so it's like it's like either either

1038
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:44,399
they've learned from their mistakes as

1039
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,240
as players

1040
00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:48,640
um and said hey let's really kind of

1041
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,399
evaluate this and and look at it more or

1042
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,720
we're going to waste more time

1043
00:33:50,399 --> 00:33:54,080
or they're going to get a map and go ah

1044
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,440
screw that i don't even want to look at

1045
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,919
the map the last time we used this thing

1046
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,679
we got lost i forgot it you know

1047
00:33:57,919 --> 00:34:01,519
but it again you have to kind of read

1048
00:33:59,679 --> 00:34:03,840
your players but yeah you can

1049
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:06,320
i think you handle it just fine okay

1050
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,079
that's that's reassuring and in terms of

1051
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,679
having them learn that lesson i think

1052
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:11,919
one of the one of the um

1053
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:13,520
gimmicks of dragons maybe adult green

1054
00:34:11,919 --> 00:34:15,119
dragons specifically i'm not sure but

1055
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,079
they can basically like use the critters

1056
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:18,000
of the

1057
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:20,879
the uh the senses of the critters in

1058
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,800
their domain as their eyes and ears so i

1059
00:34:20,879 --> 00:34:24,159
i had foreshadowed that quite heavily in

1060
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,599
a number of instances up until that

1061
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:27,200
point of being like it feels like you're

1062
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:29,359
being watched and for some reason like

1063
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,800
the rats will run by and like stop and

1064
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:32,320
stare at you for half an hour before

1065
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,560
running off again

1066
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,159
so i was like yeah it feels they're

1067
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,079
weird like the insects don't seem too

1068
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:39,280
scared of you they just seem to linger

1069
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:41,040
around

1070
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,119
so it foreshadowed that something wasn't

1071
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,280
quite right there and when they

1072
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:47,040
eventually met the green dragon uh who

1073
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,919
was in like polymorph themselves that

1074
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,720
body shaped into humanoid form

1075
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:53,520
and

1076
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:55,440
it's a an evil dragon right who loves to

1077
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,720
manipulate and

1078
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,720
you know

1079
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:00,480
annoy other humanoid creatures that he

1080
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,760
was like oh yeah i loved when you got

1081
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,880
lost for two hours that was great to

1082
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,920
watch like you guys are dumb idiots

1083
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,079
[Laughter]

1084
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,280
right that's it and that's all i mean

1085
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:11,440
there are times where you want to poke

1086
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,760
the bear a little bit yeah yeah yeah you

1087
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,920
know it it it furthers a story from the

1088
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,480
standpoint but build some animosity yes

1089
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,560
exactly yes yeah that that was

1090
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,160
i wanted to go for like

1091
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,680
this guy's been watching you the whole

1092
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,359
time you know nothing you've said has

1093
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,599
been secret including all the times you

1094
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:29,680
were debating how to kill a dragon

1095
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:32,560
like he knows

1096
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:36,000
he knows absolutely everything including

1097
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,119
your even silly points when you got lost

1098
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,119
um

1099
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:40,560
and that really over egg like

1100
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:41,920
at any point he could have just come

1101
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,280
down and like

1102
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,119
stomped on you

1103
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,000
and like he's you know he's allowed you

1104
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:49,599
to roam free in his his domain thing so

1105
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,800
that was what i was going through

1106
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:53,359
yeah i mean there's some cool things

1107
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,520
there i mean we have um

1108
00:35:53,359 --> 00:35:57,280
so uh one of the characters that's uh in

1109
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,280
the current adventure is just

1110
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,520
trustworthy of everybody yeah which is

1111
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,880
fine but i kind of build for that but um

1112
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:07,839
they stayed at an inn in chult uh and

1113
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,680
the owners turns out the owners have ins

1114
00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:12,960
in uh all over

1115
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,560
feyrun um and one of them is in her

1116
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,400
hometown and it turns out that that's

1117
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,480
her parents business as well so it turns

1118
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,400
out they're competitors

1119
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,400
and uh so she immediately distrusts

1120
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,359
everybody hates everybody

1121
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,520
well

1122
00:36:23,359 --> 00:36:26,640
fast forward i don't know four or five

1123
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,720
days later

1124
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,160
they are ambushed by somebody and

1125
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,280
they're like how'd they know where we

1126
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,040
were that and

1127
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,720
they find this note

1128
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,200
it's a cryptic note and it has these

1129
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:38,800
initials on it and um they couldn't

1130
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,400
really figure out who it was

1131
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,920
and it turns out it's this innkeeper's

1132
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,040
daughter who's actually kind of working

1133
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,480
for

1134
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:50,000
the big bad evil guy um who is kind of a

1135
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:52,240
mole for for them and um they i and i i

1136
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:55,200
was like okay well you know and she

1137
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:56,960
immediately went to this woman and said

1138
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,119
or is she that's immediately what

1139
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,960
happened was she was like it's her i

1140
00:36:59,119 --> 00:37:02,560
know she's she's spying on us i know it

1141
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,400
i know i don't know it but she didn't

1142
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,480
know what her last name was

1143
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,920
and so the initials didn't quite line up

1144
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,200
and she didn't really know that the

1145
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,920
spelling of her name which didn't kind

1146
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,920
of line up with the you know so it was

1147
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,359
this whole funny thing where she's she's

1148
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,000
totally right

1149
00:37:15,359 --> 00:37:19,359
but um you know it's not for the right

1150
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,599
reasons just because she doesn't like

1151
00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:22,880
her you know so

1152
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:24,480
i don't know how you got there but you

1153
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,320
got the right answer

1154
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,079
absolutely right right and that's the

1155
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,680
fun part is when people are just and

1156
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:31,119
that's that's where you know when you

1157
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,599
start talking about hooks hooks can

1158
00:37:31,119 --> 00:37:36,320
easily turn into tropes right yes

1159
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:38,000
so um and when things get tropy then all

1160
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,920
of a sudden it's like okay

1161
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,079
so this guy is working for this guy and

1162
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,520
all of a sudden they unravel it and

1163
00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:45,359
then you're looking at going okay do i

1164
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,680
rewrite this so it's more interesting or

1165
00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:49,200
do i just uh you know at the end affirm

1166
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,280
that yes apparently this is one big

1167
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,960
trope that you guys figured out i mean

1168
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,000
and and sometimes through no fault of my

1169
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,760
own it's just the way some of these

1170
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,280
modules are written it's like okay you

1171
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,800
it's kind of like knowing who the killer

1172
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,599
is at the beginning of a mystery novel

1173
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,800
yeah

1174
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:02,720
you know it's like

1175
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,079
oh well so i always try and throw

1176
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,520
something in there to spice it up so

1177
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:08,480
they're not i don't i don't let them be

1178
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,079
completely right because uh that's

1179
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,520
asinine i wouldn't

1180
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:13,200
players are never completely right they

1181
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,320
can't be because then they're then

1182
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,480
they're gods

1183
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,000
yeah i have to i have to throw them off

1184
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,280
with just a little something a little

1185
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,880
twist at the end where they're like oh

1186
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,920
i'm still surprised because otherwise if

1187
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,500
they figure it out from the beginning

1188
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,809
it's like why bother

1189
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:27,809
[Music]

1190
00:38:30,370 --> 00:38:34,800
[Music]

1191
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,800
that's something something i wanted to

1192
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,800
add on to there and we've talked about

1193
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,320
it a lot and i really just wanted to put

1194
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,040
like a bookend on it

1195
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,960
sure

1196
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,240
in preparation for this i i you know i

1197
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,400
googled

1198
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,400
plot hugs essentially and one of the

1199
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,839
definitions that came up and for once in

1200
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,520
this podcasting career i actually

1201
00:38:49,839 --> 00:38:53,760
bothered to keep a reference so i can

1202
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,960
cite this source in the show notes so go

1203
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,920
me um

1204
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,079
but uh it was a they're defined as a

1205
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,280
strong motivation to pursue a course of

1206
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:03,280
action that furthers the plot or

1207
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,599
enriches the narrative but the point i'm

1208
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,839
getting at is that to quote strong

1209
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:08,720
motivation we've said it before i say it

1210
00:39:07,839 --> 00:39:10,000
again

1211
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:11,920
differs

1212
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,960
almost moment to moment

1213
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,200
but

1214
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,560
obviously an absolutely game to game

1215
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,400
obviously and absolutely play as a

1216
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,839
character to play a character but also

1217
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,599
moment to moment

1218
00:39:19,839 --> 00:39:22,720
and that's why i you know it's it's i

1219
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:24,400
find it

1220
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:26,480
ironic or funny in a way where you can

1221
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:29,359
have you know his 50 plot hooks to get

1222
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,599
your players invested but you you always

1223
00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:33,040
you're gonna have to vet those and take

1224
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:35,680
them with a pinch of salt and modify

1225
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:38,079
them because the cat stuck up a tree you

1226
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:42,079
might have players who don't

1227
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:45,200
like okay i don't care yeah i hate cats

1228
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:46,320
with a cat hating gang so uh

1229
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,400
like

1230
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,920
and it might not it'll just fall flat

1231
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,240
and it won't work as

1232
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,920
as this kind of literary tool that you

1233
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,280
you're trying to use it as so

1234
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,400
it is

1235
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,079
very important

1236
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,839
i would say hooks

1237
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:01,680
and then obviously the preceding plot

1238
00:39:59,839 --> 00:40:02,800
line that is attached to that hook have

1239
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,960
to be

1240
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,880
almost have to be tailored to the pie i

1241
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,079
think yeah they have to to your point

1242
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,359
they have to be tailored to the party

1243
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:11,760
tailored to the player tailored to the

1244
00:40:09,359 --> 00:40:13,520
moment um and and just just to make sure

1245
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,920
i don't get any hate on here i love cats

1246
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,599
i was speaking of that as a player

1247
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,800
four of them on my own

1248
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:22,720
plea please don't send me hate man

1249
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,280
but yeah you're exactly right i mean i

1250
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:26,640
think i think that's where um

1251
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,880
you know when you when you think about

1252
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,640
dming it's very much a tap dance so it's

1253
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,359
you're you're trying to

1254
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,200
take into account everyone's mental

1255
00:40:33,359 --> 00:40:36,880
state at the time of the session you're

1256
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,839
trying to take into

1257
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,880
account what the actual uh storyline is

1258
00:40:39,839 --> 00:40:42,880
and what they're trying to produce

1259
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,079
you're also trying to take into

1260
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,319
you know what the play style is um and

1261
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:51,520
so it's kind of like a chess game and i

1262
00:40:48,319 --> 00:40:53,440
used two years ago i would have outlines

1263
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,119
and flow charts and everything so if

1264
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,960
they don't do this then this happens or

1265
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:58,480
they do this or and i've realized that

1266
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,480
it's just for some people that problem

1267
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,599
that may work i don't know but i feel

1268
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,880
like impro

1269
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:07,680
improvisation is really a dm skill

1270
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,680
and being able to improv logically and

1271
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,560
to bring up logic again is really going

1272
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,319
to be

1273
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:15,200
it's important and i believe i've

1274
00:41:12,319 --> 00:41:16,800
tripped uh over my own words

1275
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,560
more times than i can count trying to do

1276
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,640
that but sometimes it works out really

1277
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,760
well sometimes it's a little you know

1278
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,960
cringe-worthy but um you know it's

1279
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,079
it's one of those skills that you need

1280
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,839
to have in your tool belt if you're

1281
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:30,400
going to dm is to be able to think on

1282
00:41:27,839 --> 00:41:32,079
your feet because if you can't deviate

1283
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,440
from the logical path that you've laid

1284
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:34,800
out then it's going to be a very

1285
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,280
difficult

1286
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,280
uh ride for you yeah as a whole so i

1287
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,040
think i think improvisation and that's

1288
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,800
where hooks so improvised hooks how

1289
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,560
about that okay thank you for that

1290
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,319
segway

1291
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,680
and i can't say

1292
00:41:46,319 --> 00:41:53,119
um yeah i here's where i get well

1293
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,400
scared about my campaign and i i wake up

1294
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:55,520
in a cold sweat in the middle of the

1295
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,200
night and go

1296
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,640
oh my god

1297
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,599
is my campaign completely linear

1298
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,200
railroad and i get like i'm like no no

1299
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:05,440
surely surely not or maybe it is but

1300
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,520
they can't tell it is i don't know

1301
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,560
because i've thought before like

1302
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,800
i think i've asked a question to a

1303
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,400
previous guest to be like should i be

1304
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,599
providing

1305
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,040
regular improvised hooks of like

1306
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:19,520
there's a

1307
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,119
dinosaur running through the streets or

1308
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,880
and you know why is that here or there's

1309
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,680
you know some some

1310
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,760
uh

1311
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,520
you know what's the word but someone

1312
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,359
who's gonna fund the party you know like

1313
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,440
says oh i'll go and find this magical

1314
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:33,440
thing for me and i'll pay you 2 000 gold

1315
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,240
like should i be doing

1316
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,200
that

1317
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:36,079
because i

1318
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,560
don't

1319
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:42,079
really i hope that hasn't ever someone's

1320
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,760
i can hear the gasps of my listeners

1321
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:44,800
from here oh my god uh we've been

1322
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,599
listening to this guy and he doesn't

1323
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,920
even do that uh but i i

1324
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:53,040
i just don't know i i can't i don't i

1325
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:55,200
for whatever reason i'm not good at but

1326
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,400
guess saying like a side quest shall we

1327
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,480
say i i

1328
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,480
i improvise for sure and i agree

1329
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:03,920
completely that it's a it is very much a

1330
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:06,480
muscle that you need to practice and

1331
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,839
you can visibly get better at it like

1332
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,000
markedly

1333
00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:13,119
get better at improvising but in terms

1334
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,760
of like his uh here's a sidequest plot

1335
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:18,160
hook for today's session is not

1336
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,000
something that i do

1337
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,240
at all

1338
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:26,160
yeah i i get what you're saying and i i

1339
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:28,560
would say um it's not something that i

1340
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,839
pull a lot like i kind of have a couple

1341
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,119
things kind of sitting on the side

1342
00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:32,560
prepared

1343
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:34,960
so if they want to do something then i

1344
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:38,079
have kind of a loose outline of okie or

1345
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:40,240
going after a lesser big evil guy for

1346
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:42,240
something if if they decide they want to

1347
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:44,160
you know poke their nose into things

1348
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:45,440
i think what's interesting is because as

1349
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,319
i mentioned earlier that they're very

1350
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,480
much into npcs and getting npcs names

1351
00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:52,160
and knowing more more about them

1352
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,680
a lot of times you know i'll i'll give

1353
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,760
them a clue that these people don't

1354
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:58,480
really mean anything by giving them

1355
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:00,240
like for instance the battery that uh

1356
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,960
splurge hangs out with their their names

1357
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:05,680
are mop flop and slop yep i mean it took

1358
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,200
no care and creating them no mental

1359
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,440
overhead

1360
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,960
right exactly it's and so it's very much

1361
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,880
you know i used to have a dm that would

1362
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,319
just tap his 20s i had on the table if

1363
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,520
you're doing checks so let you know

1364
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:17,520
don't bother because there's nothing

1365
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,040
there oh okay and that is in further

1366
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,800
advancement of the story right you want

1367
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,160
to kind of

1368
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,359
when you're dealing with a group of

1369
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,960
people everyone has their own

1370
00:44:23,359 --> 00:44:26,160
motivations and their own speed in which

1371
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,440
they want to go

1372
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,040
and so what you're going to find is

1373
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,000
there tends to be dominant people within

1374
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,240
that group who tend to help guide or

1375
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,240
railroad the group or whatever and so

1376
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:37,599
sometimes that can get a little annoying

1377
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:39,200
when people are like well i want to go

1378
00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,720
and do this and i want to go well okay

1379
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,800
you can do that after i get done with

1380
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:44,640
talking with everybody else

1381
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,000
um and so that's where those side quests

1382
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,280
come in so it's like people will go

1383
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,079
through and they'll talk to everybody

1384
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,520
and

1385
00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:52,400
if they have an interesting synergy for

1386
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:54,720
some reason these guys there's a sausage

1387
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,079
cart that's in chult which i had to make

1388
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,079
up because they were like who are these

1389
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:59,280
guys and i gave them a non-flattering

1390
00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:01,280
name

1391
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,240
um which i can't say on the air but they

1392
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,240
um

1393
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:05,599
they uh for some reason are enamored

1394
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:06,880
with these guys

1395
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:08,400
i mean like they love them they all

1396
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,880
whenever they go by they always get

1397
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,720
sausages and stuff like that so in my in

1398
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,800
my in my mind i'm like okay you know

1399
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:17,359
this might be an interesting

1400
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,400
uh setup for a side quest like hey you

1401
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:19,680
know what we're

1402
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,880
we've ran out of the sausage that you

1403
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,119
really like but we're having a really

1404
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,880
hard time getting in this area and you

1405
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:26,880
guys seem like you're pretty

1406
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,880
well versed in in the four and you know

1407
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,240
the jungle can you go and grab us on

1408
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,599
this we'll pay you handsomely and make

1409
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,960
you some sausage

1410
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:35,119
and you know that could be something

1411
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,240
that's super easy to do

1412
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:38,400
you don't have to worry about battle

1413
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,920
maps and all this other stuff it's it's

1414
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,160
but the thing is now that they're

1415
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,000
connected with these npcs

1416
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,599
it's like okay yeah these are these are

1417
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,200
our friends we want to do this you know

1418
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:48,160
so i'm not asking to do it i'm just

1419
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,280
saying hey

1420
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,640
these are people that you apparently

1421
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,880
care about do you care about them enough

1422
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,640
to go and do something for them

1423
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,400
you know so those types of little side

1424
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,400
quests uh come up there there was

1425
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,720
another one with uh

1426
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,800
one of the crown prince's uh nieces or

1427
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:04,000
whatever ends up ends up somewhere where

1428
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,960
she shouldn't be

1429
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,640
um and uh breadcrumbs led them down in

1430
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,640
that direction and you know they kind of

1431
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,240
saved her but in the process made

1432
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,480
friends with her mother who happens to

1433
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:15,760
be very powerful as well so you know

1434
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,680
there's all sorts of little things that

1435
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,200
you can do to to give people a break for

1436
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,160
the main storyline if people feel like

1437
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,200
they need maybe they need to be

1438
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,720
re-energized or they want to do some rp

1439
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,560
you know i mean and there are there are

1440
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:28,960
moments where you know we played entire

1441
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,359
sessions and not rolled an entire diet

1442
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,520
like outside of role play for like you

1443
00:46:31,359 --> 00:46:34,960
know persuasion or whatever and there

1444
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,800
are nights where it's like that's where

1445
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,400
people want to be and so again it's it's

1446
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,640
you got to read your group you know i

1447
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,920
mean if if people really want to rp or

1448
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,839
they saw something and they really want

1449
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,640
to investigate it not everything's a

1450
00:46:43,839 --> 00:46:46,800
fight

1451
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,960
you know it could be more uh

1452
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,880
socio-economic it could be more uh

1453
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,200
intrigue maybe it's some romance you

1454
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,440
know and so trying to figure out what

1455
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:58,000
works best with the group is is you know

1456
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,359
again par part part and parcel with the

1457
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,680
emmings

1458
00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:04,000
in days yeah so i i i want to tell you

1459
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,079
this right now you're doing fine

1460
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,240
okay and i understand you you're worried

1461
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:10,400
about railroading and things like that

1462
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:12,960
you know if if the plot that you're on

1463
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,720
is linear well obviously if you if you

1464
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,240
look at it there it's going to be there

1465
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,680
are going to be a branches but they're

1466
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:20,960
all probably going to end up being the

1467
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,559
same motivation eventually um and so let

1468
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,319
them go off and do some exploration

1469
00:47:22,559 --> 00:47:26,880
stuff like that and if you need to you

1470
00:47:24,319 --> 00:47:28,720
know gently bump them that direction

1471
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,920
like give them another break from um all

1472
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,599
of a sudden there's a rumor about the

1473
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,839
green dragon again and then maybe it

1474
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:35,920
sparks some interest and they go back uh

1475
00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:37,680
don't don't make it obvious where you

1476
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,880
know while we went south when we should

1477
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,040
have gone north and we ran into the

1478
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,280
dragon anyway that's that's railroading

1479
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,359
yes yeah yeah i know that

1480
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,839
that stuff i'm also quite

1481
00:47:45,359 --> 00:47:50,400
hyper aware of i exist in this weird

1482
00:47:47,839 --> 00:47:52,960
duality of having this you know this big

1483
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,880
arcing story laid out but then also very

1484
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,960
aware and that that's that's probably

1485
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,000
why i didn't want to move

1486
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,079
the

1487
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,359
the the destination in the in the forest

1488
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:03,200
to where they were going because to me

1489
00:48:01,359 --> 00:48:04,960
that was the same of being like

1490
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,680
you hear a dragon to the east well we go

1491
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:11,440
west okay we bump into a dragon to me

1492
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:13,119
that was at the time was the same like

1493
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,640
so that's why i really wanted to be like

1494
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:15,760
no i can't do that because that then

1495
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,920
that will be railroading if they

1496
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,760
continue to walk north you know the

1497
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,200
wrong direction for the next 10 days

1498
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,200
well then

1499
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,119
they walk north for the next 10 days

1500
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,160
because otherwise i'm being royal roadie

1501
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:28,000
but then that's it it's that fine

1502
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,640
balance as you said earlier on like but

1503
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,079
that's not fun like not you know walking

1504
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,000
the wrong direction for 10 days is not

1505
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:35,040
fun

1506
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,640
i mean

1507
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,559
and but it's it's kind of your job to

1508
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,000
make it fun yeah so yeah you know

1509
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:42,880
throughout the travels maybe they meet

1510
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:45,040
some people uh maybe uh they're people

1511
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,800
out there camping maybe they've oh we

1512
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,559
saw some stuff happening back the other

1513
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,200
direction i mean there are ways to kind

1514
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:51,440
of

1515
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,720
a introduce some role play into it maybe

1516
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,640
they have to they have to gain the

1517
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,400
confidence of the people they run into

1518
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,440
for them to divulge the information that

1519
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,839
they have

1520
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,640
um you know it's there are ways to do it

1521
00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:04,400
but i travel could be a lot of fun if if

1522
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,760
it's done right and normally i don't do

1523
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,079
it right half the time either i just

1524
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,599
kind of skip through it yeah because

1525
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:12,319
um there are things that i don't deal

1526
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:15,119
with in in d uh one of those is uh

1527
00:49:12,319 --> 00:49:17,359
alignment yeah i'm not a huge layman fan

1528
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:20,960
likewise i don't think it's uh

1529
00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:23,599
an accurate depiction of a person a

1530
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:26,319
conscious living changeable hum but

1531
00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:27,920
humanoid person yeah sure right well and

1532
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:29,040
and so here here's a good topic that i

1533
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,000
kind of wanted to talk to you about

1534
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:35,680
early on was um so this is kind of like

1535
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:38,160
the the the rebirth of d d as a whole

1536
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,920
uh especially with 5e but one of the

1537
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,240
things i love is

1538
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,839
goblins you're you're not killing

1539
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:46,079
immediately when you see him or you're

1540
00:49:43,839 --> 00:49:47,599
not killing it when back when i started

1541
00:49:46,079 --> 00:49:50,000
playing in first edition and actually

1542
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:51,359
red box those people were definitely

1543
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,599
evil

1544
00:49:51,359 --> 00:49:54,960
they were they were worthy of death you

1545
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:57,280
know i mean that's what you did you went

1546
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,520
and you killed them um but now you have

1547
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:02,319
playable races who are cobalts and so i

1548
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:04,800
i imagine this being a much more diverse

1549
00:50:02,319 --> 00:50:06,880
universe yeah as far as um

1550
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,640
where alignments really don't come into

1551
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,640
i think it's how people

1552
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,400
well it's more like how people treat you

1553
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,480
and what what did they do and things

1554
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,240
like that so alignment for me gets a

1555
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,160
little muddied because

1556
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,760
we're all none of us are pure evil none

1557
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:22,000
of us are pure good

1558
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,559
there's there's it's a whole shade of

1559
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,240
gray in there and that's a whole other

1560
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:27,920
whole podcast but

1561
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,400
um but that was the thing is like what i

1562
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,079
what i love is the fact that splurge is

1563
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,400
one of their friends who's a goblin they

1564
00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:35,680
have you know so and so and so and so

1565
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,960
and all these other and it's a very

1566
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:41,359
diverse community um that is around the

1567
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,359
group and supports the group and so when

1568
00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:45,760
they go into combat

1569
00:50:43,359 --> 00:50:47,520
they are always thinking like hey

1570
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,400
these guys may not be evil why are we

1571
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,400
attacking them so i i like that aspect

1572
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,640
of where dnd is going

1573
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:57,280
yes yeah plus black and white yeah no i

1574
00:50:54,640 --> 00:51:00,240
completely agree i've basically issued

1575
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,200
any alignment stuff from from day one

1576
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:04,640
doesn't really

1577
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:06,400
have any bearing on anything i do uh

1578
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,640
but then i uh

1579
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,240
i think i said in my little my primer

1580
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,680
notes the campaign i've said like no one

1581
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:13,599
is ever truly good in the same way no

1582
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,440
one has ever truly

1583
00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:16,880
very few people are truly evil there's

1584
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,839
there's often shades of grey that need

1585
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,680
to be investigated uh along the way but

1586
00:51:19,839 --> 00:51:23,200
uh to loot back onto hooks for just a

1587
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,720
moment um

1588
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,800
i'm regarding my players specifically

1589
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,640
they are another problem i have

1590
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,559
that's not really a problem it's a bad

1591
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,400
bad analogy wrong wrong use of words

1592
00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:34,720
another interesting thing that happens

1593
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,839
with my players is that um

1594
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:38,079
i've said it before on the show that

1595
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:39,520
they're very focused on the main the

1596
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:41,520
main quest

1597
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,119
uh and like you said a couple of the

1598
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,960
more dominant people who are like let's

1599
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:46,400
move the story forward

1600
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,440
very much like main quest main quest

1601
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:51,520
main quest someone some big bad is doing

1602
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:54,160
something somewhere and we need to

1603
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:56,240
stop that from happening so any other

1604
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,400
little side quest things that do that

1605
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:00,400
maybe do come up that i've either

1606
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:03,119
planned or improvised

1607
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,559
are often like we don't have time we

1608
00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:06,800
shouldn't look into it they're a shoe

1609
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:09,440
yeah yeah and i'm like oh man oh this

1610
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,119
this was gonna this was gonna be a goofy

1611
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,200
social encounter you know this is gonna

1612
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:15,520
be your goofy side quest to do this that

1613
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,880
and the other so i think uh as it's

1614
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,319
coming up to a time of recording it's

1615
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,720
coming up to christmas and new year's

1616
00:52:18,319 --> 00:52:21,599
holidays and i'm planning to have you

1617
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:23,520
know a couple of weeks off probably

1618
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:24,559
about a month of dming and i think when

1619
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,760
i come back one of the things i'm going

1620
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:27,280
to say is like

1621
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,359
guys i might have over egged the

1622
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,280
existential threat just a little bit

1623
00:52:29,359 --> 00:52:33,440
feel free to take your foot off the gas

1624
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,839
if you wish to indulge in

1625
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,599
your backstories or other

1626
00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:39,599
interesting things that might be

1627
00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:41,280
happening but i would encourage you to

1628
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:43,359
do so because

1629
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,359
they will be interesting for you

1630
00:52:43,359 --> 00:52:46,720
i don't know how to tell them

1631
00:52:45,359 --> 00:52:49,119
i've got all this cool stuff set up

1632
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:51,280
which is of course that the dm's dilemma

1633
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:52,559
from is is being like i've got all this

1634
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,040
awesome stuff but i can't tell anyone

1635
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:56,400
about it but uh so dan that that that's

1636
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,440
where the that's where hooks come in

1637
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:01,040
right

1638
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,319
so um rather rather than kind of um

1639
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,079
why buy the cow when you get the milk

1640
00:53:02,319 --> 00:53:07,599
for free

1641
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:10,000
so um so from that standpoint uh

1642
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:12,000
getting them invested in something um an

1643
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:15,520
interesting mpc that they meet that they

1644
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:17,520
build a bond with and it's again

1645
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:20,000
some of this is saccharin you know it's

1646
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,599
very sugary sweet stuff um i use kids a

1647
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,599
lot because kids are adorable and i play

1648
00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:25,119
kids really well so all of a sudden like

1649
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:29,280
they're all about the kids

1650
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:31,040
um but some way that they they cannot

1651
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,400
they cannot take notice now they can

1652
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,480
avoid it if they want to but they're

1653
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:37,520
terrible people if they do

1654
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:39,040
you know um but i i've used that in the

1655
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,000
past to kind of guide people like you

1656
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:43,040
know

1657
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:45,040
um or or they they've i i will play an

1658
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,280
npc so that way they do become friends

1659
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,960
with them and then that can be used as a

1660
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,480
hook to drive them

1661
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,720
into something else to help something

1662
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,400
out so for instance right now

1663
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:57,440
uh hopefully this doesn't error anytime

1664
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,240
soon but um

1665
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,720
uh

1666
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:02,319
so right now they uh my characters have

1667
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:04,160
met actually it was supposed to be

1668
00:54:02,319 --> 00:54:06,960
somebody who's gonna kill them

1669
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,520
uh and uh they somehow

1670
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,920
got on his good side and now he's giving

1671
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,760
them kind of some good stuff that they

1672
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,160
they need to kind of move along

1673
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,720
but one of the things is you know he's

1674
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:20,160
basically an old tabaxi who's getting

1675
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:22,160
close to the end of his life and he

1676
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,160
wants to defeat this one monster before

1677
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,400
he goes and no and he wants to he wants

1678
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,680
to die while he's defeating this monster

1679
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,359
as revenge for his uh dead wife uh

1680
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,640
and um

1681
00:54:31,359 --> 00:54:34,240
through that process now they've been

1682
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,599
highly motivated to go and deal with

1683
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:40,559
this really dangerous creature but it's

1684
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:42,400
because that is in in the backstory that

1685
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:43,760
is his motivation as he wants to die

1686
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,200
killing that thing but now they're being

1687
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,960
dragged along because they actually care

1688
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,799
about the npc

1689
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,240
you know he has a i made up this whole

1690
00:54:48,799 --> 00:54:51,040
thing it's not even in the adventure but

1691
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:52,799
i mean

1692
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,200
when they meet him he brings them down

1693
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:57,119
into like this basement area where they

1694
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,920
uh where he initially tries to poison

1695
00:54:57,119 --> 00:55:01,520
them and they discover that and uh but

1696
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:04,240
they realize he's kind of crackers you

1697
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:06,000
know so he has a mop next to him that he

1698
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:08,319
brings over he says i want i want to

1699
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,680
introduce you to my wife penny and so

1700
00:55:08,319 --> 00:55:11,200
he's basically in love with a mop which

1701
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,680
is a representation of his dead wife

1702
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:16,880
yeah and this is all happening at night

1703
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:18,799
because during the day he's far more um

1704
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,119
coherent but at night he goes a little

1705
00:55:18,799 --> 00:55:23,040
nuts yeah and so now they've taken some

1706
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:25,200
pity on him and they feel bad and they

1707
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,720
because he has helped them because he

1708
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,440
they spared his life

1709
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:32,720
they're going to go and help him uh try

1710
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:34,640
and defeat this big bad evil guy and uh

1711
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:36,559
so those are those are ways that i use

1712
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,400
things to kind of motivate people if

1713
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:39,839
they didn't want to do that that's fine

1714
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,799
but it's kind of a fun thing that i

1715
00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:43,200
think they're gonna have a good time

1716
00:55:40,799 --> 00:55:44,880
with it's gonna be a challenge um and

1717
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,400
they may not have initially discovered

1718
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:49,440
it otherwise so

1719
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,240
um i use npcs and situational things to

1720
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,880
help

1721
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:54,400
spice things up uh move people along if

1722
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,839
i have to or

1723
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,240
if there's really cool content that i

1724
00:55:55,839 --> 00:55:59,599
want them to to see then yeah i try and

1725
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:01,520
motivate them if they end up at the end

1726
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:03,680
of the day not doing it

1727
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,839
well you know they we miss out on some

1728
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,839
content um the other thing is all that

1729
00:56:05,839 --> 00:56:09,599
content can be reused in the next

1730
00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:11,359
adventure yeah you know so it's like if

1731
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:12,640
they didn't use it here repurpose it for

1732
00:56:11,359 --> 00:56:14,880
something else and see if they use it

1733
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:17,200
there if not i mean all that stuff all

1734
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,040
that good writing all that planning can

1735
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,119
still be used but maybe not at this

1736
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,040
point in time so just you know file it

1737
00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:25,119
and see if they'll see if they'll bite

1738
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:28,000
the next time through mm-hmm

1739
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:30,960
yep one one final thing from me uh i

1740
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,480
wanted to uh it made me smile when we

1741
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,480
were talking and then i was doing

1742
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,799
preparation for this show all about

1743
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,720
hooks is that my

1744
00:56:36,799 --> 00:56:39,920
one of my early opening gambits with my

1745
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:41,680
players once they've got out of the

1746
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,200
prologue essentially the world opens up

1747
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,799
a little bit more and

1748
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,160
they know they have a bit more of a

1749
00:56:44,799 --> 00:56:48,799
wider understanding and they're not just

1750
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,079
on like a fetch quest essentially is i

1751
00:56:48,799 --> 00:56:51,359
give them

1752
00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:54,079
a

1753
00:56:51,359 --> 00:56:56,079
sheet of essentially about 10 plot hooks

1754
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:59,440
uh in the form of

1755
00:56:56,079 --> 00:57:01,599
rumor mill mcguffins to go and find uh

1756
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:04,240
you know powerful artifacts so on and so

1757
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:05,760
on um in universe it's you know

1758
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:07,839
powerful npc they're working with she

1759
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,599
has a companion that you know has his

1760
00:57:07,839 --> 00:57:12,319
ears the ground he knows people he can

1761
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:13,680
get things done he hears things so he

1762
00:57:12,319 --> 00:57:14,640
basically reports back and says i've

1763
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,559
heard this i've heard this i've heard

1764
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,799
this about this and the they they

1765
00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:21,920
broadly correlate with some magical

1766
00:57:18,799 --> 00:57:24,480
readings that the powerful npc has has

1767
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:26,400
felt in the weave or whatever it is and

1768
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,280
it was just making me smile that i've

1769
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,359
the whole

1770
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:32,000
the whole premise of my campaign is is

1771
00:57:29,359 --> 00:57:35,119
set on here's 10 hooks pick which one

1772
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:37,280
literally pick pick one from a menu here

1773
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:38,640
some uh some are you know more viable

1774
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,720
for you somewhere easier to get to

1775
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,440
someone harder to get to and the reason

1776
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,839
i'm bringing that up is because

1777
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:47,040
i had in my head and i'm trying to get

1778
00:57:45,839 --> 00:57:48,880
people to learn from my mistakes of

1779
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,680
course and so i had in my head that it

1780
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,599
was

1781
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,760
you know this is great dearing this is

1782
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:56,559
like carp you know pick from the menu

1783
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,839
here's 10 cool and interesting exciting

1784
00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:59,440
things

1785
00:57:57,839 --> 00:58:00,960
and in reality people like don't know

1786
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,599
where that is don't know what that is

1787
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:05,200
doesn't mean anything to me uh this one

1788
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:06,400
you know dm where's the closest one and

1789
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,680
we just want to go

1790
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,440
and do that one

1791
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,760
i was like oh

1792
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:14,640
okay kind of deflated yeah

1793
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:16,640
what did i do i felt like i maybe they

1794
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,640
i was too obtuse because i didn't want

1795
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,880
to be like go to this place and pick up

1796
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,880
this artifact it's like oh something's

1797
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,480
happened like the the mining output of

1798
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,680
this town has diminished which is

1799
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,599
unusual

1800
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,680
shall we go and find that out or there's

1801
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:31,520
there's reports of civil unrest over in

1802
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,680
this town should we go and should we go

1803
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:36,319
and do that right uh and uh yeah i just

1804
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,760
think it was so something wasn't quite

1805
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:39,520
there but next time i run it next time

1806
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,599
we're on the campaign it will be refined

1807
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,760
and it will be improved and it will be

1808
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:47,520
something will change

1809
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:50,880
yeah i i mean i i can i i think

1810
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:52,640
we all grow um i'm not look i know matt

1811
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,240
mercer and i don't think anybody is matt

1812
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,400
mercer but matt mercer and that's that's

1813
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:58,400
part of i think where people get

1814
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,920
um a little jaded from the standpoint

1815
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,680
they watch critical role and they they

1816
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:04,160
all want to be voice actors and stream

1817
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,680
and everything and that that's fine but

1818
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,640
i i hate when people come down on

1819
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,839
themselves for being human and you know

1820
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,839
it's a game

1821
00:59:09,839 --> 00:59:14,079
you know and i you're you're you're so

1822
00:59:11,839 --> 00:59:15,520
if you if you're damning for five people

1823
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:16,720
you are the sixth player so if you're

1824
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,599
not having a good time it's not worth

1825
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,839
doing

1826
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:21,359
and i wouldn't worry about um the

1827
00:59:19,839 --> 00:59:23,520
railroadiness and things like that i

1828
00:59:21,359 --> 00:59:25,680
mean your players will give you a pretty

1829
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,720
good sense of oh okay now we have to go

1830
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,880
over here

1831
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,839
i mean it just it becomes pretty obvious

1832
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,880
but as long as you're aware of that

1833
00:59:30,839 --> 00:59:34,880
failing you're probably one of the least

1834
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,119
likely people to actually commit that

1835
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:41,040
process and and sometimes railroading is

1836
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:43,119
necessary i'm sorry it just is and i i i

1837
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,319
i would challenge any dm on the planet

1838
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:46,640
to say that

1839
00:59:44,319 --> 00:59:48,960
they haven't used that at least once yep

1840
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:51,520
you know so um don't feel bad about that

1841
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:53,119
i i think you're doing fine and uh yeah

1842
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,480
as far as the a la carte stuff i love

1843
00:59:53,119 --> 00:59:56,640
that idea

1844
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,559
um i actually started writing

1845
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:02,480
what was going to be a module yeah but

1846
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:04,400
it was basically um like 21st chapters

1847
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,960
uh and so what it was is a way to set up

1848
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:09,440
an adventure with basically one big hook

1849
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,799
so as a way um and this is the biggest

1850
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,319
hook of all

1851
01:00:10,799 --> 01:00:14,559
you've got to be able to get your

1852
01:00:12,319 --> 01:00:16,640
players invested in each other or else

1853
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:19,680
you don't have a group

1854
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:21,119
and so um that's what the the

1855
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,280
the 21st

1856
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:25,040
stories were was they were all in

1857
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,200
separate areas and they were all brought

1858
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:29,280
together and there was a viable

1859
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,599
a viable storyline there

1860
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,040
that kind of cemented them based off

1861
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:35,839
their backstories

1862
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:38,400
uh and so they had a common goal only

1863
01:00:35,839 --> 01:00:40,559
because they had a common misstep

1864
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,319
um and so they weren't being forced into

1865
01:00:40,559 --> 01:00:44,240
it but they just kind of you know for

1866
01:00:42,319 --> 01:00:45,920
instance one of them was you know

1867
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,480
one works across the street at her

1868
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:50,880
father's you know uh

1869
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:52,400
equipment shop he goes into a bar across

1870
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,839
the street every time

1871
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,920
about one o'clock and he doesn't come

1872
01:00:53,839 --> 01:00:58,480
home until about four

1873
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,960
one of the guys is a town guard so he's

1874
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:02,720
in there as well another person is in

1875
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,680
there for something else and basically a

1876
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:07,280
bomb goes off and they survive but her

1877
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,359
father is killed

1878
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:11,040
and so now there's this investigation

1879
01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:12,960
obviously the guard want to figure out

1880
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,040
what's going on so they're brought in

1881
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:17,520
um the the one of the other guys in

1882
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,960
there is one of the proprietors

1883
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,079
bar keeps or whatever they're kind of

1884
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:23,119
interested and if they're not they're

1885
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:24,480
not um and then you have the the

1886
01:01:23,119 --> 01:01:27,359
the person across the street whose

1887
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:30,480
father was killed is now drawn in and so

1888
01:01:27,359 --> 01:01:32,400
you have these ways of kind of you

1889
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,160
building that common experience between

1890
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,240
the players and their group

1891
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,920
and locking that in is so super

1892
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,200
important to them caring about each

1893
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,799
other

1894
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,440
and that's the biggest hook of all so i

1895
01:01:40,799 --> 01:01:46,960
mean whatever hook you're gonna use that

1896
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:49,040
initial session zero session one hook is

1897
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:50,400
the ultimate most important thing that

1898
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,079
you can do because if if those

1899
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,680
characters can't bond through shared

1900
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:55,119
experience then

1901
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,520
there's a lot of well i'm gonna go and

1902
01:01:55,119 --> 01:01:59,520
do this screw you guys yeah um and so

1903
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:02,160
there's no empathy there's no um

1904
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:04,319
camaraderie there's no sense of we're

1905
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:06,960
all in this together and then it becomes

1906
01:02:04,319 --> 01:02:08,559
very antagonistic at times

1907
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,480
yeah no you're you're absolutely right

1908
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:12,799
in fact one of my notes says hooks to

1909
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:15,920
get the party together session one call

1910
01:02:12,799 --> 01:02:17,839
to arms and precisely for that reason uh

1911
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,599
you you explain it better than i ever

1912
01:02:17,839 --> 01:02:21,599
could so thank you very much

1913
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:22,960
for that oh you're too kind uh is that

1914
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:24,400
is there anything we might have missed

1915
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,400
that you wanted to talk about

1916
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:29,039
no i mean i think we had we had a pretty

1917
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,559
well-rounded conversation

1918
01:02:29,039 --> 01:02:33,039
you know i mean i i think the biggest

1919
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:34,480
thing when when conversations like this

1920
01:02:33,039 --> 01:02:36,000
are had um

1921
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,079
people are gonna side one way or the

1922
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:41,200
other with how they personally dm

1923
01:02:38,079 --> 01:02:42,880
that's perfectly fine i i'm a huge

1924
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,480
proponent of people doing their own

1925
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,359
style

1926
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:49,599
i'm happy to play with anybody who dms

1927
01:02:47,359 --> 01:02:51,359
way because it's always fun to be around

1928
01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:54,079
people and and see a different way of

1929
01:02:51,359 --> 01:02:56,319
doing things um what i would suggest is

1930
01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:57,839
you know from my standpoint i don't ever

1931
01:02:56,319 --> 01:03:00,000
think of something and say i would never

1932
01:02:57,839 --> 01:03:02,480
do that because you never can't tell

1933
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,839
um so keep keep your mind open you know

1934
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,160
when it comes to using some of these

1935
01:03:03,839 --> 01:03:08,000
mechanics to motivate your players yeah

1936
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,599
absolutely absolutely well thank you

1937
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,839
thank you ever so much mike is there

1938
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:13,920
anything you would like to promote

1939
01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:16,799
oh uh you know if

1940
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:20,319
if things like this are uh you know your

1941
01:03:16,799 --> 01:03:22,400
your your podcasting family um if they

1942
01:03:20,319 --> 01:03:24,640
like this interview style i do something

1943
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,440
similar um on youtube

1944
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:29,920
it's a youtube.com

1945
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,720
slash games played badly

1946
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:33,760
you can follow me on at badly underscore

1947
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,440
games

1948
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:37,280
on twitter

1949
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:39,280
i do a similar interview show with again

1950
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:41,359
with creators and things like that um

1951
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:43,039
don't let the video side

1952
01:03:41,359 --> 01:03:44,799
uh scare you you can always just listen

1953
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:46,559
to it if you want to um and actually i'm

1954
01:03:44,799 --> 01:03:48,640
going to be converting all of those uh

1955
01:03:46,559 --> 01:03:52,240
video interviews that we're up to our

1956
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:54,319
30th episode into um just audio format

1957
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:56,960
for people who would enjoy podcast

1958
01:03:54,319 --> 01:03:58,960
rather than watching a youtube video

1959
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,359
some of the videos are um

1960
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,680
actually showcase the artwork that go

1961
01:04:01,359 --> 01:04:05,200
into um some of these modules that

1962
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,640
people are creating on dm's guild and

1963
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,680
things like that so that's always fun to

1964
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:09,839
look at

1965
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:12,640
um but yeah come on by subscribe to the

1966
01:04:09,839 --> 01:04:14,240
channel i produce regular content and if

1967
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:17,760
you follow me on twitter

1968
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:19,440
i'm always um posting something so maybe

1969
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:21,440
maybe one day in the future mike will

1970
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,599
have like a really cool guest come on

1971
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,799
his show that you know it's fully i

1972
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:27,520
happen to have one

1973
01:04:24,799 --> 01:04:28,920
thinking critically uh oh yeah exactly

1974
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,960
but i've had good things yeah yeah

1975
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,559
[Laughter]

1976
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,920
no dad i'd love to have you on because

1977
01:04:32,559 --> 01:04:35,280
again it's another interview from a

1978
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,559
different take where i'm not talking to

1979
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,160
you as a dm i'm talking to you as a

1980
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:39,680
creator

1981
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,559
okay cool there you go at the very least

1982
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,960
you've got that to look forward to

1983
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:43,920
listeners

1984
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,240
but no

1985
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,680
all that's left to say is sincerely

1986
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:50,000
thank you ever so much mike that's a

1987
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:52,839
really really interesting decision on

1988
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,359
something which could have been a very

1989
01:04:52,839 --> 01:04:57,440
dry topic you know here is a plot hook

1990
01:04:55,359 --> 01:05:00,000
here you know here's a bunch of here's

1991
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:02,319
just a list of you know literary tools

1992
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,760
so i really like the direction that you

1993
01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:05,920
took it in in terms of like you know

1994
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,680
reading the table and knowing you know

1995
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,680
dealing with other human beings it's

1996
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,680
such a such a you know

1997
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:13,200
useful and an insightful

1998
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:15,119
bridge from

1999
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,559
how do i get you know it's how do i get

2000
01:05:15,119 --> 01:05:18,240
players engaged ultimately at this

2001
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:20,640
fundamental level and it's how do i get

2002
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,760
humans engaged is this even trickier you

2003
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:23,039
know you could get a degree in that

2004
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,559
right yes

2005
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:26,319
right the biggest plot hook is your

2006
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:27,839
players indeed you know

2007
01:05:26,319 --> 01:05:29,680
that's that's the ultimate plot as your

2008
01:05:27,839 --> 01:05:31,359
players making sure everybody's happy

2009
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,680
yeah so absolutely so thank you ever so

2010
01:05:31,359 --> 01:05:35,920
much for joining us today mike yep no my

2011
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,839
pleasure um again hopefully i'll have

2012
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,599
you on soon but uh

2013
01:05:37,839 --> 01:05:41,359
uh again i would not worry i think

2014
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:42,160
you're doing a great job thank you so

2015
01:05:41,359 --> 01:05:44,240
much

2016
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:46,319
thank you everybody listening at home i

2017
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,480
would encourage you to go and subscribe

2018
01:05:46,319 --> 01:05:49,599
to mike's youtube

2019
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,559
otherwise

2020
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:54,720
thank you all for listening and good

2021
01:05:52,559 --> 01:05:56,319
night

2022
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,720
and now it's time for the patreon shout

2023
01:05:56,319 --> 01:06:01,280
outs once again thank you to matt street

2024
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,160
at mpstreet88 on twitter for supporting

2025
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,440
the show

2026
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:06,440
if you need support running your

2027
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:08,640
personal or business schedule head to

2028
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:10,319
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

2029
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,480
make that difference between should do

2030
01:06:10,319 --> 01:06:14,319
and done boss it better with support

2031
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:16,559
from cat who will help you get back that

2032
01:06:14,319 --> 01:06:18,079
essential time you've been searching for

2033
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:19,920
if you would like to support what we do

2034
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:22,640
and get four shout outs a month head

2035
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:24,160
over to patreon.com thinking critically

2036
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:27,200
or you can just buy me a coffee at

2037
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:29,440
kofi.com thinking critically

2038
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:32,559
i would also like to humbly request that

2039
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:34,400
you drop me a rating on spotify which is

2040
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:36,000
a thing now you can do on the mobile app

2041
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,880
or just a

2042
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:41,440
like subscribe follow

2043
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:44,079
shout out tell your friends anything

2044
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:45,520
would be hugely appreciated probably

2045
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:51,160
more than the other stuff to be honest

2046
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:51,160
so thanks again for listening and bye

2047
01:06:51,510 --> 01:07:13,689
[Music]

Mike Profile Photo

Mike

Creator / DM / Advocate

Long time gamer with 30+ years (on and off) of DMing experience. I've played a variety of systems as well as a bunch of board games too! Gaming/creativity evangelist!