History

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welcome thinkers to season 4 episode 5

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of thinking critically today's topic is

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history and as usual some announcements

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firstly i just wanted to really really

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really thank you all my regular

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listeners there's a really cool group of

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you out there and it's what makes me

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keep coming back every two weeks and

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dropping a new episode so it really is

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super appreciated i love that you guys

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are all out there and keep coming back

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for more every week so thank you so so

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much and also by the time this episode

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drops the finale of my time loop

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campaign well maybe the finale maybe the

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panorama session uh

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you know what the nd is like but

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hopefully the finally of my outer wilds

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inspired time loop campaign arc i'll be

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streaming on tuesday the 12th of july at

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8 00 pm british summer time

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so tune in to twitch.tv thinking

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critically if you want to see how the

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group

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resolve their chronological conundrum

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otherwise let's get on with the show

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by andrew and vesna

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gronowski from shoestone publishing

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thank you ever so much for joining us

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today can you tell us a little bit about

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yourselves

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oh thanks for having us we run a small

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gaming company in boston massachusetts

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in the usa and we've both been gaming

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role-playing games for a long time

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about when did you start

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somewhere uncomfortably long ago i think

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uh early 90s would be yeah let's just

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say we've both been gaming for uh more

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than 30 years we play dungeons and

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dragons regularly we both like called

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cthulhu and we played a historical

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fantasy game called rs magnica that's

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actually how we met oh wow amazing

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thank you so much for joining us today

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today's topic is history so what does

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that mean to you in the d d and wider

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ttrpg framework

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there are

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several

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well-acclaimed

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historical role-playing games called

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cthulhu is one of the best known

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and vesna was actually in the medieval

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history program

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at a major university in boston um when

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we met

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this is true it's a hobby now though i

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do something

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that you can actually eat awful yeah

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so

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you know we were both playing our mega

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at the time when she was a history

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student

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and i really fell in love with ours

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magicka because

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you know i knew only

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what

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history they teach european history they

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teach in school

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which is all the dull bits

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and i remember

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going to an encyclopedia and looking at

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the history of france in the 13th

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century and there there was no france

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in the 13th century right and half of uh

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what is now france was part of the

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angelman

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um so-called empire

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so it was actually ruled from the

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english throne

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and of course this is where the hundred

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years four comes from

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and there's just so much

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there's so much depth there once you

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start

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looking at history and

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a famous game designer i think it was

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ken height said if you want to make your

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your game really interesting the first

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thing you should do is set it on earth

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because

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your players will automatically

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be familiar with it they'll bring some

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preconceptions maybe but they'll have

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the sense of place that i think we

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strive for so if you're playing in a

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purely fictional fantasy world then

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i think you can draw on history

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to

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really enrich

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that world and to enrich your stories

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george r martin i think drew heavily on

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historical patterns i think he

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simplified

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actual historical dynastic struggles for

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game of thrones but

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you know you really get a sense that he

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had a library card right that

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that he knew how these he's these played

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out in in the real world

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so dan is your

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dnd game in a homebrew world or are you

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using one of the major

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campaign settings no no it is it was all

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homebrew because i was foolish and

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arrogant in my young age of six six

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years ago

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and thinking i i could i want to make it

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all i want to do it all from from the

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ground up more of a control thing you

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know i want to be in

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control of all the little bits and bobs

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that make up this place which

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was

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somewhat naive

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always made my own worlds for d d as

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well so i feel your pain

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but when you say

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to have control

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it reminds me of something that puts

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people off i think about history which

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is that history has a lot of ugliness in

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it

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there's a lot of racism a lot of cruelty

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just atrocities and so on and

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i thought long and hard about this

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critically uh

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while i was writing a historical game

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and what i want to say to the audience

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is

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a modern setting has all those same all

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the same risk

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all the same ugliness the world is still

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human nature hasn't changed

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so

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it's an editorial choice

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of what

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dark side of society what dark side of

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human nature you want to show

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and the fact that you're drawing from a

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period 500 years ago

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doesn't require you to bring in

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more unpleasantness than you would if it

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were modern

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and in fact i think that's generally

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true of using history in gaming um

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i know back when i was in history grad

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school we used to have this event which

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was called bad historical movie night we

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would watch a historical movie and a

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whole room full of historians would rip

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that thing to shreds while having adult

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beverages

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it was a great time except for the one

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time that somebody got a little bit too

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drunk and started yelling in old english

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but anyway

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i progress

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fun times but i think

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it's easy to pan historical movies and

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to try to really stick to the source

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material

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but

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the beauty is that you don't have to in

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a fantasy world or really in any game

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you can you can pick and choose you can

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pick and choose the things that will

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make for the fun part and all the things

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that maybe aren't true and that you

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wouldn't want to mention in an academic

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paper or a dissertation

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can be central and true in your world

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and i find that very very appealing

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by the way it also makes historical

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research more fun for me personally

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because i came at it from the other end

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right i was doing academic research and

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those are huge books and sometimes very

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boring topics but when you're

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having some thoughts about what could be

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happening in your game world and then

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you're starting to read up history that

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you think might be able to support

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building it and giving it more depth and

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nuance suddenly it's more interesting

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because you have a purpose and it's

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creative

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it's not just

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memorizing a bunch of stuff or reading

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some dry old

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books

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no i'm wondering what your

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your grad school advisors d d world

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would be like when you open a chest full

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of coins

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right

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he would he would have a story for each

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coin

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that's in there

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although i i have

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academic credentials history is

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not one of them i'll be

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as transparent as right now my my my

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history education

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started and ended in secondary school so

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when i was 16 and now i feel bad talking

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to trained professionals

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i'm an amateur okay you're an amateur

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professional

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so yeah i i'm not like

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my my knowledge of history is very

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limited in that

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you know i always remember my mum

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telling me that she didn't like america

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because america doesn't have any history

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versus england which has like hundreds

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and hundreds of years more and that's

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that's pretty much my

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in my my

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global context don't say that boston

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that's why i'm doing it with you like my

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safe space with you guys or sat in my

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home over here on the other side of the

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atlantic so yeah

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oh you know this is this is another way

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that you can bring history into a game

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um

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andrew visited my hometown in germany

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now that's that's a university former

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university city the university moved to

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a different town now

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in america the 200 and a bit years of

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history that they have are cherished and

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when you have something historical you

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put a plaque on it and you pretty much

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preserve it as a time capsule almost as

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much as you can

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now when he visited the town where i

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grew up he saw the house where you know

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gauss the mathematician wrote his

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dissertation it's a dirner kebab shop

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and

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you know at least as far as i'm

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concerned when you have a game that's a

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choice you can make is history in an

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area going to be enshrined is it

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something that people hold sacred that

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they try to turn into little museums and

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you can't really go there or is it you

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know well now they're selling i don't

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know food out of their street food

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pretzels

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it makes me wonder if different races in

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a fantasy world would have a different

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attitude to history you know elves might

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say well that was only 300 years ago

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yeah that's not history

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i love i love this world build like when

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it comes to this level of well-building

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i love it because a i'm always the worst

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at thinking of it or it's way that the

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car has left the station

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way before i've actually gone oh that

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would have been a good idea but also

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because it brings in those other like

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you can almost like bunny hop through

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what is the culture like here but then

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how would that be impacted by say for

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example how long a species lives and

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that is

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that interaction between a you know a

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00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,920
race that lives 1000 years versus a race

287
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,839
that lives 100 years is interesting in

288
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,200
of itself just the dynamic there let

289
00:10:57,839 --> 00:11:00,800
alone when you

290
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,480
fold in the stuff we've just been

291
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,800
discussing like

292
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,240
this is a statue here to somebody and a

293
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,880
human might be like oh okay when was

294
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,959
that like a couple of centuries ago no

295
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:14,480
like

296
00:11:10,959 --> 00:11:17,279
a couple of like a million years ago

297
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,959
i imagine going to a party somewhere and

298
00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:21,600
this elf getting really drunk and

299
00:11:18,959 --> 00:11:25,279
telling me you won't believe what julius

300
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:29,079
caesar told me at this party

301
00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:29,079
he got so hammered

302
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,920
yeah yeah

303
00:11:42,399 --> 00:11:45,920
see i love doing the show for reasons

304
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,760
like this because now i'm like oh i need

305
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,200
to start thinking about next next place

306
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,760
they're going to go what's going to be

307
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,200
there what does that mean and there are

308
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,120
you know it's like

309
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,639
environmental storytelling boom there it

310
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,320
is trying to leverage my video game

311
00:11:56,639 --> 00:12:00,880
knowledge there and it took way longer

312
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,120
than i did like uh where you just have

313
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,279
those little tidbits and like that maybe

314
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,880
you go to a city and there aren't like

315
00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:08,160
you describing vessel but maybe there

316
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,600
aren't any

317
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,959
historical artifacts because they just

318
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,320
don't care and they build on top build

319
00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:14,399
on top building top build on top and if

320
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:17,440
you go into the basement of a donald

321
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:19,120
kebab shop there'll be like reams of

322
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,120
architectural foundations that they're

323
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,440
just like oh that's just where we keep

324
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:26,240
the donners like that's just where

325
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:29,279
the pit is dry out like

326
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,560
which is fantastic to to think of yeah

327
00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:32,560
but you mentioned

328
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:34,800
you mentioned the game of thrones and

329
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:36,959
all that i think that's that's also that

330
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,600
you know the bigger historical picture

331
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:42,800
is also worth talking about especially

332
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,639
some of the dynastic stuff too

333
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,959
yeah that's true that's one of the one

334
00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:50,320
of the ideas that brought with me um

335
00:12:46,959 --> 00:12:52,959
we gave a seminar at gen con um a couple

336
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,079
of times and we change up the topic

337
00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:56,560
every year

338
00:12:54,079 --> 00:12:59,760
we call it beyond battles overlooked

339
00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:01,760
history for world builders and um

340
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,680
one of the one of my favorite

341
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,720
stories was

342
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:08,560
the

343
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,760
marriage in spain of isabella of

344
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:12,800
castillo

345
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:15,120
and ferdinand of paragon

346
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,519
because i played

347
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,320
the video game crusader kings 2 which is

348
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:24,079
a dynastic strategy game and i actually

349
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:26,000
did this i actually unified spain

350
00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:27,120
by marriage

351
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,680
and

352
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,760
i i tell you you know in history books

353
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:33,680
that or in history class they just said

354
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,760
this in one sentence oh and

355
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:37,760
this princess marry that prince in that

356
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:43,760
unified spanish no

357
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:43,760
that was hard that took a lot of work

358
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,839
and

359
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,560
that's a perspective that's really

360
00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:52,560
useful for world building is you know

361
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:55,519
there's an opportunity here right but we

362
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:58,160
have to do this to make it happen or we

363
00:13:55,519 --> 00:14:01,040
want to prevent it because together

364
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:04,160
aragon and castillo would

365
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:06,480
just steamroll portugal which they kind

366
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,480
of did

367
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:14,000
but i don't remember too many of the

368
00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:16,240
details of that i mean i know that

369
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,199
actually i know a couple of things which

370
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,680
is that

371
00:14:17,199 --> 00:14:22,000
isabella was not the primary heir

372
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,120
castile but there was a succession

373
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,480
struggle

374
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,279
and

375
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,040
the

376
00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:31,600
air that

377
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,800
one faction was advancing got bumped off

378
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,880
and

379
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,760
the only

380
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,560
blood can that that faction had

381
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,600
was isabella they had the upper hand but

382
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,720
their their pretender was eliminated or

383
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,880
was killed

384
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,079
and i said well all right well we'll go

385
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,839
with her

386
00:14:48,079 --> 00:14:52,000
and they won

387
00:14:49,839 --> 00:14:53,199
so they put her on the throne

388
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,360
and

389
00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:57,920
in aragon

390
00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:00,079
ferdinand was watching the situation and

391
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,279
he had been waiting for strategic

392
00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:02,880
marriage

393
00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:05,040
and he said you know i'm gonna keep

394
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:08,160
waiting and see

395
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,920
how that civil war over there plays out

396
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,000
and when she won

397
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,800
i will use the joke from my gen con

398
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:18,959
seminar he he approached her and said so

399
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:22,680
isabella what do you think of my huge

400
00:15:18,959 --> 00:15:22,680
tracts of land

401
00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:30,000
yeah but again you said you don't

402
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,440
remember all the details and i think

403
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,279
that's really important to mention that

404
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,360
when you're writing academic work you

405
00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:38,959
have to know the entire background

406
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,120
because they'll be asking you questions

407
00:15:38,959 --> 00:15:42,959
about it later and if you can't find an

408
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,320
answer you'll sit there looking really

409
00:15:42,959 --> 00:15:46,639
really silly

410
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,880
for me i guess the inspiration for how

411
00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:52,079
much history to bring in comes of all

412
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:54,480
things from men in black the movie

413
00:15:52,079 --> 00:15:57,120
when the two men in black are going to

414
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,120
look for the fact sheets and where do

415
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,720
they go they go to this new stand and

416
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,560
look at tabloids

417
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,040
with all these stories that have nothing

418
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,360
to do with reality anything else it's

419
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,480
just wild conjecture and conspiracy

420
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,759
theory

421
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,079
and

422
00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:14,240
you can you can be as close to the

423
00:16:12,079 --> 00:16:16,880
material as you want to and you can do

424
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,560
all the research but you don't have to

425
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,800
only as much as you need to make it

426
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,440
interesting whatever inspires

427
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,519
and if all you want to know is that you

428
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,680
know there was isabella and she happened

429
00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:29,519
to be available at the time that

430
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,279
ferdinand thought it would be fun to

431
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:32,800
unite two countries

432
00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:35,040
that's all you need

433
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,920
you can riff off of that

434
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:40,240
or you can make a story of how we got

435
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,639
there yes and in fact it would be kind

436
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:45,920
of funny to make it almost um ferdinand

437
00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:48,480
and isabella meet jane austin

438
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,360
regency romance situation with political

439
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:54,480
implications

440
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:57,279
uh yeah i'm i've done one or two vivas

441
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,560
defense of my academic papers and i have

442
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:01,199
know the pain of sitting there like a

443
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,279
lemon uh in in many aspects of my life

444
00:17:01,199 --> 00:17:04,880
so yeah no one of which being a dm

445
00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:06,799
funnily enough so yeah it's funny how

446
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,319
something's never changed

447
00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:10,799
it's history

448
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:12,160
but you know i so for my

449
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:14,319
campaign

450
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,280
when i first started world building i

451
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,039
had

452
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,959
you know a rough idea a couple of big

453
00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:21,199
you know mcguffin arcs to get the

454
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:22,799
macguffin via you know this way whatever

455
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:24,240
it may be but a number of other

456
00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:25,760
mcguffins were driven by the player

457
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,199
backstories and they had pretty much

458
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,520
free reign to make whatever it is they

459
00:17:27,199 --> 00:17:30,880
wanted to make you know combinations so

460
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,360
obviously that has implications for the

461
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:36,160
wider world so when somebody picked a

462
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:39,280
total which is kind of a more unusual

463
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:41,200
rarer character race in in d5e i was

464
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,600
like okay now i need to think about the

465
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,880
implications of that in my setting so

466
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,520
like where are they and where have they

467
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:50,000
been and there's a meme that turtles

468
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,919
actually have like a short lifespan in d

469
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,559
and d5 it's like 30 or 40 years whereas

470
00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:55,760
in real life the galapagos turtles can

471
00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:57,520
live like

472
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,480
200 years

473
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,320
so yeah there's all these things kind of

474
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,039
mish mashing together and in my

475
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,120
untrained mind of trying to work out

476
00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:08,640
quote unquote a long time ago

477
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,640
but there's an elf in the party and a

478
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,559
long time ago to him isn't

479
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,880
a long time ago at all so it doesn't it

480
00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:16,480
kind of loses all of its kind of punch

481
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,480
because i'm like oh actually you were

482
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,760
just on holiday when that happened to

483
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,520
everyone else this was like two

484
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,520
generations ago but for you it was you

485
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,600
know already half lost to the midst of

486
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,520
time but to you you were just on holiday

487
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,640
at the time so trying to stitch all that

488
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,000
together

489
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,840
i had a timeline and it changed oh man i

490
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,039
hacked that to pieces move things around

491
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,400
added

492
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:37,679
a couple of thousand years here and

493
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,280
there to be like actually that's not

494
00:18:37,679 --> 00:18:41,840
really that long ago let me just chuck

495
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:44,640
in like 20 000 years and that now that's

496
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,640
a long time ago

497
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,080
that's pretty much how i came to my

498
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,559
timeline my

499
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,960
my universe history for my campaign was

500
00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:55,200
just add some zeros and hope for the

501
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,200
best

502
00:18:55,679 --> 00:18:59,440
now in your world

503
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,840
do people

504
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,160
come and go where they're migrations

505
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,440
because if you if you open a history

506
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,360
book for

507
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,320
and we know mostly about european

508
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:12,480
history yes because the sources are

509
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,320
really available and because

510
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:18,160
they just publish a lot europeans

511
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:20,559
publish a lot about european history

512
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,799
you know we know the language

513
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:23,520
yeah we know the languages so that helps

514
00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:25,760
but

515
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,919
in your world have you thought about

516
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,200
people coming and going

517
00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:32,240
so

518
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,400
an example would be the normans right

519
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,240
who originally came from

520
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,559
scandinavia

521
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,160
settled in normandy

522
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:41,280
and then

523
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,799
of course

524
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,600
then went on to

525
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:49,360
conquer or colonize other areas of

526
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,640
europe um england and also sicily

527
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:52,720
parts of greece

528
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,919
and yeah by the way it was a combination

529
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,600
of conquest and colonization they of

530
00:19:55,919 --> 00:20:00,160
course you get you know the vikings

531
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:03,039
raiding the irish monastery and that's a

532
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:05,440
fun trope for adventurers or pretending

533
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:08,000
protecting the monks that sort of thing

534
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,400
but the same people also put up

535
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,120
settlements and started trading with

536
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,120
local populations and intermarrying and

537
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:16,799
all of that and eventually

538
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,600
turned into a different

539
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:18,320
group

540
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,039
so

541
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,480
yeah people do move around and

542
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:25,120
mingle

543
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:28,559
and then they can just show up like the

544
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:30,240
roma people showed up in europe in the

545
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,919
15th century

546
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,000
at least as far as european

547
00:20:31,919 --> 00:20:36,480
historiography is concerned okay so

548
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,159
that's the other bit how many i guess

549
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,480
that should probably come up too which

550
00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:42,159
is sources with an elf you can just ask

551
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,919
the next guy which is a little bit

552
00:20:42,159 --> 00:20:46,799
annoying well

553
00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:48,720
but the elf may not care um true you

554
00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:50,559
know i was i was thinking

555
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,159
that now you

556
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:55,360
can't see it on the podcast but i have a

557
00:20:52,159 --> 00:20:58,000
gray beard i'm 51 years old and when i

558
00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:00,480
was 16 i didn't think

559
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:04,400
i thought history was the past

560
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,919
but then i was around when the berlin

561
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,600
wall came down

562
00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:12,320
okay that's an event that's history

563
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,400
but the perception still you know i'm

564
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,200
imagining if my lifespan were 10 times

565
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,480
longer i might i might say that is

566
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:23,440
history but i may not say

567
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,280
for example there was an

568
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:28,159
i'm just thinking of an event right and

569
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:32,400
there was a there was a asian currency

570
00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:34,640
collapse around 1997 right that happened

571
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,480
it affected asia a lot more than it

572
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,919
affected me

573
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,640
so

574
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:42,960
you know i may know that it happened

575
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,480
but because it wasn't part of my lived

576
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,120
experience you see what i'm saying just

577
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,600
because an elf was around 300 years ago

578
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,520
doesn't mean that they have the

579
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,559
experience of this thing as a major

580
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,159
event

581
00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:57,039
and even if they do

582
00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:58,799
mean i was also around when the berlin

583
00:21:57,039 --> 00:22:00,799
wall came down and in fact i was in

584
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:02,080
germany at the time so i very much

585
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,400
remember

586
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,640
but if you were to ask me

587
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,280
you know as a historian so what were the

588
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,520
political events that led up to it

589
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,480
what happened on such and such a date

590
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,799
when did gorbachev meet with whoever

591
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,880
i couldn't tell you i i lived through

592
00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:21,520
these events i picked up a bit through

593
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:24,320
the news but i didn't study them

594
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,480
and so i can absolutely see that a

595
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,960
wizard who has studied a particular

596
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,280
period and has a history skill out the

597
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:34,480
wazoo would actually know about it more

598
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:36,159
about it than the elf yes yeah okay this

599
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,240
is all good this is all great while

600
00:22:36,159 --> 00:22:40,960
building material for me and listeners i

601
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,400
am like a sponge absorbing this thing

602
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,679
because it's because we we've talked

603
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,760
about the trouble already on the show

604
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:48,320
like the life spans and how that affects

605
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,440
but i love snapping us back to reality

606
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,679
and being like

607
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:54,880
vox populi on the street like they don't

608
00:22:51,679 --> 00:22:56,720
they might not care or know or be like i

609
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,720
don't know i've just been a blacksmith

610
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,880
for 300 years and

611
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,880
there was there was an iron shortage 200

612
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,480
years ago that was important but i don't

613
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,550
know some big explosion happened on

614
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,159
another continent oh well

615
00:23:06,550 --> 00:23:09,120
[Laughter]

616
00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:10,000
or

617
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,400
now

618
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,840
if you go into a pub in boston there

619
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,960
will be a selection of 10 craft beers

620
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,360
and

621
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,360
i mean i was too young to to drink beer

622
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,799
but 40 years ago

623
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,960
there would not have been

624
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:26,400
right craft beer was a thing

625
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,600
things change

626
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,000
there was a time when you couldn't get

627
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,480
sushi in the united states except in a

628
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,200
major city yeah there was a time when

629
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,520
pizza was kind of weird foreign food and

630
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,320
that's what he's called something house

631
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,080
of pizza rather than an italian name

632
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,440
because you wanted to hide a little bit

633
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,400
that this is this noveliz italian thing

634
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,960
so

635
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,640
so so so things change

636
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,400
and and that's part of history too right

637
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,840
the cultural history

638
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,000
yeah and that's

639
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,480
you mentioned the um

640
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,320
food and all of that and i guess it's

641
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,400
important to realize that you have the

642
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,480
queens and the kings and the nobles who

643
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,799
make these grand decisions and that we

644
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,080
memorized as dates and schools

645
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:10,159
but then

646
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,320
after a while historians started looking

647
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:14,559
at common people what was their lived

648
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,720
experience like and how did that change

649
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:18,400
and if characters aren't kings and

650
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,480
queens they might

651
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,880
see more of that until they reach a

652
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,480
certain level and get involved in these

653
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,640
large world events

654
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,440
and that makes me

655
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,559
give a piece of advice to you and your

656
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,240
listeners

657
00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:34,400
i would recommend that you look at the

658
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,880
early modern period

659
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,240
for your historical inspiration

660
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,279
so

661
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,039
after

662
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:45,039
the printing press after 1450 in europe

663
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:46,559
the sources are

664
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:48,080
enormously

665
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:50,320
richer and

666
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,480
what that means to you is that the

667
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,440
the history books that you

668
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,240
read

669
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,840
will be much more

670
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,120
there's just they'll just be much more

671
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,600
engaging because

672
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,440
the writer had an abundance of material

673
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,840
and it's

674
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,400
it's hard it's not hard to imagine a

675
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,320
world without electricity

676
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,279
it's hard to imagine a world without

677
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,279
printed books to me

678
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:20,640
it's hard to relate to that

679
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:23,679
yeah and in fact uh comparing

680
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,320
running stories and something like

681
00:25:23,679 --> 00:25:29,200
arse magicka even though my background

682
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,760
is medieval history was significantly

683
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,240
harder than coming up with a story to

684
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,480
tell in elizabethan england

685
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:39,600
simply because early modern really is

686
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,880
closer to us culturally in many many

687
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,480
ways

688
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,240
they asked

689
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,640
i did a lot of research on the

690
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,520
elizabethan period um

691
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,000
four game that we that we developed and

692
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,360
something that stood out someone asked

693
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,600
um

694
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,640
francis bacon what's the difference

695
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,480
between

696
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,320
we modern people they didn't have the

697
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,840
word renaissance right what's the

698
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,480
difference between

699
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,039
we modern people and our

700
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,480
medieval ancestors and he said three

701
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:11,760
things

702
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,120
gunpowder the compass and the printing

703
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,360
press

704
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:17,920
now i think he got those in exact

705
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:21,510
reverse order of importance

706
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,510
[Laughter]

707
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,240
you academics are all the same yeah

708
00:26:24,110 --> 00:26:27,039
[Laughter]

709
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,200
we

710
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:31,440
really can't imagine some of that stuff

711
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,000
because every time you read a d d

712
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,400
adventure that's published by either

713
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,720
well by whatever publisher there's

714
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,200
always this room full of books that you

715
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,360
walk into and there's maybe one or two

716
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,120
that aren't rotting and that are still a

717
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,320
fuse to the wizard

718
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,880
and

719
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:52,000
that's because they just can't get away

720
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:54,720
from books being available and the

721
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,240
library being walls and walls and walls

722
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,120
of things

723
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,880
when you would have a small box of three

724
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:03,760
books and

725
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:08,480
it's not inconceivable that you have

726
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:11,600
read every book on i don't know animals

727
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,679
in your area that every any monastery

728
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,000
has like this is your world this is your

729
00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:17,039
mental universe

730
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,240
so

731
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:20,559
that

732
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,919
leads me to speculate about in your

733
00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:24,399
world building

734
00:27:21,919 --> 00:27:26,000
have you have you damn thought about

735
00:27:24,399 --> 00:27:29,120
what's available

736
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:32,480
in the world and not and whether whether

737
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:35,520
it changes or turning points like

738
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,200
an age of exploration in your world and

739
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,480
what triggered that

740
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,919
you keep asking me questions that are

741
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,919
going to make me sound stupid

742
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,240
i'm really kidding these are

743
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,720
opportunities for you though no they

744
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,480
absolutely are yeah so i did have some

745
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,480
broadly and here's

746
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,360
my problem is that i

747
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,279
i know

748
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:57,520
because i was just kind of hacking it

749
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:59,440
together i definitely approached it

750
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,600
from like the bottom up rather than the

751
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,440
top down which sounds stupid but instead

752
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,000
of no not at all instead of being from

753
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,440
like year zero for lack of a better term

754
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,919
and then moving on that way it was more

755
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,600
of a case of well i've got this thing

756
00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:13,120
that needs to happen at some point when

757
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,760
when is that gonna make sense to be and

758
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:17,120
they kind of worked i worked back almost

759
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,960
and that makes things a lot harder

760
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,720
because then if you've changed something

761
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,880
at the start then everything else is

762
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,480
then pushed down or brought forward or

763
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:28,000
something so

764
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:29,520
yes there are a couple of epochs there's

765
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,159
a there's a you know a different

766
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,240
calendar system came in at one point

767
00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:36,559
again trying to just bring in some

768
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,240
familiarity with the gregorian calendar

769
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:40,799
they're all used to

770
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,840
but exceptionally shallow in terms of

771
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:43,360
like

772
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,799
something probably happen if the players

773
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,559
inquire about it i'll probably think up

774
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:48,720
something deeper but

775
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:50,159
for today it was a thing that happened

776
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,120
the dates changed for some reason

777
00:28:50,159 --> 00:28:52,880
because

778
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,640
i think i had in my world and it's very

779
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,399
tropey and it's very

780
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,320
uninspired to a certain extent you know

781
00:28:56,399 --> 00:29:00,159
there were the the older races that were

782
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,399
around a lot longer like elves and

783
00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:05,120
dwarves were there before the younger

784
00:29:02,399 --> 00:29:07,679
races of like humans and tieflings or

785
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,520
whatever it may be in my my setting so

786
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:11,600
when that happened because of

787
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,039
the reasons then the dates changed and i

788
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,360
might have it so that it was just

789
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:17,039
because humans in their unlimited

790
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,559
arrogance were like well this is when

791
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:20,000
modern history starts now because we're

792
00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:21,679
around and so now we're starting to

793
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,760
count against zero because that sounds

794
00:29:21,679 --> 00:29:28,289
like something humans would do

795
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,289
[Music]

796
00:29:30,850 --> 00:29:37,760
[Music]

797
00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:41,120
yeah so were there changes in

798
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,760
the elves lifestyle or the dwarfs

799
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,480
lifestyle their culture

800
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,480
how do they mark the epoch um and that

801
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,840
okay this is a question that i am

802
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,760
looking forward to answering because

803
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,080
as much as i am shallow in some elements

804
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,520
i also like to subvert expectations and

805
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,720
this is something i've mentioned on the

806
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,200
show a couple of times so in the second

807
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,960
no the first proper arc the players went

808
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,880
on once they finished the prologue they

809
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,840
went to some dwarven you know dwarven

810
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,600
capital city somewhere and i'd very much

811
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,320
lent heavily on like it's in a big

812
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,399
mountain you get to it by ship through

813
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,440
like a bored-out tunnel and on the

814
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:18,559
underside of the mountain and it goes

815
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,640
all dark

816
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,919
you come up to some like interior docks

817
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,159
that are just you know it's rocks and

818
00:30:21,919 --> 00:30:25,679
it's all murky and it's all damp and

819
00:30:24,159 --> 00:30:26,399
humid and all this other kind of stuff

820
00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:28,320
and

821
00:30:26,399 --> 00:30:30,320
i was deliberately playing on the

822
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,720
classic fantasy dwarven trope of

823
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,240
industrial and miners and blacksmiths so

824
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,480
they were expecting to step off and be

825
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,600
in this like the clinging of hammers and

826
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,840
it being all

827
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,480
grimy and dirty and

828
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:45,520
aprons and overalls and furnaces and

829
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,200
forges and smeltzers and i i thought

830
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,600
what's the logical

831
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,240
end point of

832
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,960
a society that is driven by

833
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,679
manufacturing and production and i kind

834
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,919
of looked at the real world so long

835
00:30:57,679 --> 00:31:03,279
story short is they step off the boat

836
00:30:59,919 --> 00:31:05,600
and they walk in and it's like a macy's

837
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:06,559
or something it's like a tj maxx

838
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,600
it is

839
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:12,320
hyper commercialized hyper

840
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,120
cookie cutter mass production

841
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,600
because

842
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,840
with an explosion of population

843
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,880
you can't get by with like 100 artisan

844
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,960
dwarfs anymore can't make the armor and

845
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,519
steel and armaments for

846
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,480
seven billion the populations they were

847
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,000
like let's

848
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,080
fast forward the clock a little bit

849
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,519
versus the real world but it's a long

850
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,720
story short they step and there's like

851
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:34,720
two floors there's a department store

852
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,720
there's like racks of plate mail there's

853
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:40,640
racks of leather

854
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:42,240
there's like swords all along the wall

855
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,640
like classic like adventurous gear

856
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,720
that's branded with this brand of like

857
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,559
uh you know like sleeping bags and stuff

858
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,159
so i i and my players well one of my

859
00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:51,760
players hated it because he's like no

860
00:31:50,159 --> 00:31:53,519
sword and sorcery

861
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,600
i was like sorry you're in my world now

862
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:57,519
and it's all brightly lit and harsh and

863
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,000
loud

864
00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:01,919
yeah there are there are very dif you

865
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,480
can get a very different vibe in your

866
00:32:01,919 --> 00:32:08,320
campaign by by drawing from different

867
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,840
periods and uh i'm thinking of glorantha

868
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,080
now have you have you heard of this

869
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,640
world the world of runequest oh i've had

870
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,559
a room quest so yeah yeah so that

871
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,799
setting and i haven't played runequest

872
00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:21,279
as such there's a computer game called

873
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:23,600
king of dragon pass that gives a flavor

874
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:25,039
for that world and it's a bronze age

875
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,840
world okay

876
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:29,039
and it's very

877
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,159
intentionally modeled on brown's age

878
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:32,480
europe

879
00:32:30,159 --> 00:32:33,919
which is well it's a different world

880
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,960
right and

881
00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:39,919
your your world sounds more like a 19th

882
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,760
century vibe which is

883
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:43,360
really interesting and it can be done

884
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,760
perfectly well

885
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,360
i mean i i'm not a gunpowder fan in my

886
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,600
fantasy games but you can take away

887
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,000
gunpowder and you still can have

888
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,279
um yeah now i'm i'm

889
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,279
lazy

890
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:58,240
which drives most of my world building

891
00:32:55,279 --> 00:32:58,240
which i think is fine

892
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,039
in that i want i want some of the modern

893
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,559
quality of life things i want people to

894
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:06,640
be able to tell the time because it's

895
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:08,799
just easier for every the players and me

896
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,960
i kind of want people to be able to

897
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:12,320
speak over longer distances

898
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,640
because that just makes things a lot

899
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,799
easier than it's just some artificial

900
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,799
difficulty in the way otherwise so i

901
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:21,440
bring in some modern traffic like at

902
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:23,760
this superstore they had an automatic

903
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,279
door but it was a pressure plate some

904
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,039
mcguffins in the wall but essentially it

905
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:29,279
was the doors opened like star trek and

906
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:30,799
then they walked in and they did great

907
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:33,039
well where where do you think all the

908
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:35,200
trap makers got there got their pressure

909
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:36,720
plates from

910
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,840
they just bought them off the shelf at

911
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,840
the hardware store

912
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,840
so yeah that that was

913
00:33:41,919 --> 00:33:46,399
against they were like wow we we were

914
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,840
expecting as what i expected and i was

915
00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:50,399
like nope you've got you've literally

916
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,080
got like the demo area so there was like

917
00:33:50,399 --> 00:33:53,360
a phone it was more of an actor dwarf

918
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,600
than an actual smell of dwarf like

919
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,960
clanging away and being like here you go

920
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,120
here's a little

921
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,960
trinket to give your child so they went

922
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,039
to ask that person like where can we

923
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,360
find this other they're after some other

924
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:08,079
artisan dwarf he's like i don't know man

925
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,079
i'm on my break like don't

926
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:13,119
i only get paid like four gold an hour

927
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:15,040
or whatever it is so i don't

928
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:16,800
know the forge isn't real it's all just

929
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,079
lights like just don't ask any questions

930
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,560
because i'm just pressing a few buttons

931
00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:22,879
like yeah

932
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,520
so that that was that was the change of

933
00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:26,800
that race at least not i mean again it

934
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,079
was more

935
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,440
working backwards because i thought that

936
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:30,800
was a good idea but then obviously it

937
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,839
was kind of easier than to plug in the

938
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,240
gaps of

939
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:36,560
why that might be but that's that's

940
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:37,760
certainly for them and again there are

941
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,119
there are some traditionalists there's

942
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,839
some like indie

943
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:43,440
indie uh craftsmen still in this dwarven

944
00:34:41,839 --> 00:34:45,040
city but they were they were very they

945
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,520
were like the craft beers they were like

946
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,040
a little nook a tiny little place down

947
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,839
some alleyway somewhere that you have to

948
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,520
find and and seek out that isn't

949
00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:54,720
through the shopping center almost

950
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,040
[Laughter]

951
00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:59,280
so yeah so that that's that's at least

952
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,359
one question that i feel has a

953
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,960
semi-decent answer from from me that's

954
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:05,359
not

955
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,200
made up on the spot

956
00:35:05,359 --> 00:35:09,680
i was just thinking about dungeons and

957
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,200
how how we had to deal with some stuff

958
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,720
because

959
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,839
you know there's history but then

960
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:17,680
there's also material evidence there's

961
00:35:14,839 --> 00:35:20,240
archaeology the other side of history

962
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,720
and in a way every adventuring group

963
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:24,000
does archaeology when you send them into

964
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:26,560
a dungeon

965
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:29,599
and so we had to come up with different

966
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,520
era so there was a reason for them to go

967
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:34,160
explore ruins

968
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,800
and that's that kind of forces a little

969
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,800
bit of engagement with this too because

970
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,880
it has to it doesn't have to make sense

971
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,359
but you know it shouldn't just look like

972
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,560
same old if you go to it yeah no i'm i'm

973
00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:47,200
i absolutely

974
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:49,760
like for me things do have to make a

975
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,599
sense i'm a huge fan on like

976
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,160
everything having very similitude it

977
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:55,920
making sense in universe

978
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,440
because i know i mean only for moan's

979
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,800
sake but i also know at least one of my

980
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,480
players would be like

981
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,480
why the heck is this thing here and i'm

982
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,240
just going to go oh well

983
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,160
it is what it is just and then the

984
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:07,599
fourth wall inevitably has been ever so

985
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,920
slightly

986
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:13,520
wobbled at that point so i always like

987
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:15,119
to make things that make sense and

988
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,440
having a traditional tumor horrors or

989
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:19,920
something without a lot of foreshadowing

990
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,640
and a lot of reasoning elsewhere

991
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,800
is is a difficult logical step for some

992
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,599
players to make so yeah

993
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,839
yeah

994
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:30,400
the first big dungeon they went into was

995
00:36:27,839 --> 00:36:31,599
abandoned mines to have a trope but it

996
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,400
was all very

997
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:35,440
there was no real traps because

998
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,359
why would you

999
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,440
trap your minds they were just boarded

1000
00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:40,960
up and that was it cobalt had moved in

1001
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,720
so there was some

1002
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,920
there were some kobold traps around

1003
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,680
where the kobolds are because they

1004
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,680
wanted to not be disturbed but apart

1005
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,839
from that there wasn't like arrows

1006
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,480
shooting out the walls or

1007
00:36:49,839 --> 00:36:54,560
trap you know pressure plates or

1008
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,160
lara croft tomb raider put the gems in

1009
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,400
the circlets and all that kind of stuff

1010
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,960
that none of that was in there for that

1011
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,440
precise reason so no for me that does

1012
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,040
make sense i i kind of have to have it

1013
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,760
make sense i know which sounds a bit

1014
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:11,839
disingenuous having just said i've got a

1015
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,839
shopping super supermarket but

1016
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,680
the shopping ball makes sense here

1017
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:17,760
here's um

1018
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,520
a piece of history that i want to share

1019
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,400
because i got i got all excited about

1020
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,680
the

1021
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,200
a historian already paren i think he was

1022
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,680
belgian right

1023
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:31,040
and he was he 19th century

1024
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:33,839
no i think i forget when exactly so

1025
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,640
he had i read a book by him and he had

1026
00:37:33,839 --> 00:37:39,040
this what's called the parent thesis

1027
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:42,000
and the parenthesis was

1028
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,920
in europe the the so-called dark ages

1029
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,119
happened because

1030
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,119
of

1031
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:49,359
well because the

1032
00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:52,720
maritime trade routes collapsed

1033
00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:54,079
particularly the mediterranean that that

1034
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,880
powers from

1035
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:58,560
eastern europe ottomans i think

1036
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,960
essentially shut down the mediterranean

1037
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,680
or contested the mediterranean and trade

1038
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:06,400
broke down um this by the way is

1039
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,320
discredited it is not considered factual

1040
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,079
by historians today but you can use it

1041
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,200
anyway in your game

1042
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:13,359
because

1043
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,079
well why was i excited about it because

1044
00:38:13,359 --> 00:38:18,480
it explains how you can have

1045
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:20,880
piles of gold in dungeons

1046
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,800
that nobody is using because well i've

1047
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,800
got nothing like

1048
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,200
we no longer have our trade route to

1049
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,119
constantinople yes right so all this

1050
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,520
gold that i was going to use to buy silk

1051
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:33,359
and constant noble i can't spend i'm

1052
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,400
gonna stick it in a dungeon or stick it

1053
00:38:33,359 --> 00:38:38,960
in a vault yeah right until

1054
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,119
um like in um hitchhiker's guide to the

1055
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,599
galaxy right until we

1056
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:45,040
will put magarithia right into into

1057
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:46,880
hibernation and wake it up when the

1058
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,599
economy is better

1059
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,680
and

1060
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:51,839
like people thought this happened but

1061
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,280
serious historians thought europeans did

1062
00:38:51,839 --> 00:38:55,440
this but

1063
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,040
it turns out not so much but you can use

1064
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,280
it in your world absolutely and you've

1065
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,280
just given me a really evil idea is to

1066
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,720
have a big pile of

1067
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,960
currency at the end of a dungeon that's

1068
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:06,880
now no longer legal tender so the

1069
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,119
player's like whoa oh there's all this

1070
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,800
yeah here's like a whole cupboards worth

1071
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:11,839
of loot and the moment they take it to

1072
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,240
the shop they're like yeah this is

1073
00:39:11,839 --> 00:39:14,240
worthless

1074
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,920
we haven't used this for 2000 years get

1075
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:22,000
out wasting my time would be

1076
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,160
hilarious as the gm

1077
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,640
and and that could happen

1078
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,720
there's a twilight zone episode about

1079
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,040
gold where where these people put

1080
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,880
themselves into hibernation and with the

1081
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,000
and a big pile of gold with the idea

1082
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,000
that it was going to be they were going

1083
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,520
to wake up 100 years from then and be

1084
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,920
rich and the punchline was that they

1085
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,079
could synthesize gold and gold was was

1086
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,560
as cheap as water

1087
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:48,400
but that could happen

1088
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,720
if your medium of exchange is a

1089
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,320
commodity right it could happen if

1090
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,640
they're using

1091
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,240
something like um

1092
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,160
well ivory is the first thing that comes

1093
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:59,520
to mind about salt

1094
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,320
for example

1095
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,320
right

1096
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,359
or think things can change

1097
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,880
yeah yeah yeah

1098
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:08,640
when silk was only being produced in

1099
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,960
byzantium or

1100
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,119
then it made sense to go to china

1101
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,160
to get more

1102
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:15,920
right

1103
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,480
but after

1104
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,720
uh after soap production in europe

1105
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,160
picked up yeah it decreases in value and

1106
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,839
it's therefore not

1107
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,839
the same as it it doesn't hold the carry

1108
00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:28,319
the same weight uh as it were as it once

1109
00:40:25,839 --> 00:40:30,240
did yeah that's a great i love that idea

1110
00:40:28,319 --> 00:40:31,680
i'm glad we we've we've come to that

1111
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:33,280
idea because i want to i want to use

1112
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,960
something similar because it does get a

1113
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,680
bit it's a bit trite to just have yeah

1114
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,359
here's diamonds rupees pearls gold fine

1115
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,280
whatever dungeon's over

1116
00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:43,440
i i kind of want to have a little bit of

1117
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,680
a rug pull

1118
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,640
to be like you find this other thing

1119
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,440
yeah

1120
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,119
or control wise you know maybe now

1121
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,839
wizards have found a new use for

1122
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:55,839
diamonds and have begun exhausting the

1123
00:40:53,839 --> 00:40:57,119
supply so the price of diamonds has gone

1124
00:40:55,839 --> 00:41:00,480
way up

1125
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:04,000
right yeah so it's worth digging into

1126
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,880
the ruins from when diamonds were cheap

1127
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,319
yeah

1128
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,319
did you say did you say that was called

1129
00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:10,880
a apparent thesis is that is that meant

1130
00:41:08,319 --> 00:41:14,480
to be like a yeah it's a historian is

1131
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,920
that a pun on like parentheses or am i

1132
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,599
actually

1133
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,760
oh and by the way there's a book that

1134
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:23,040
came out fairly recently that's called

1135
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:25,200
the bright aegis and it's a more it's a

1136
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,440
more modern historian who writes about

1137
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,760
this idea of you know the dark ages

1138
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,839
that's really not a good way to look at

1139
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,480
it it's not what was going on it's a

1140
00:41:31,839 --> 00:41:36,079
really good book but the parent thesis

1141
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:39,119
is great for

1142
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:40,960
gaming purposes yes so if you want it to

1143
00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:43,359
be true it's true

1144
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,040
yeah so it explains

1145
00:41:43,359 --> 00:41:49,119
how there used to be a golden age and

1146
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,560
there isn't any more right and there's

1147
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:52,400
and then actually

1148
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,359
we've been playing some of the old gold

1149
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,800
box the indie computer games from way

1150
00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:59,599
back in the day

1151
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,839
and another innovation that came around

1152
00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:04,000
was the letter of credit where if you

1153
00:42:01,839 --> 00:42:06,720
were you know british nobleman who was

1154
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,440
going to go go on the grand tour what

1155
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:11,520
they called it to see europe your bank

1156
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,480
wrote you a letter of credit and you

1157
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:17,440
could present that thing in milan and

1158
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:20,720
they would give you money and the reason

1159
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:23,920
it came up in a d d context is um in one

1160
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:25,760
of the later games there's this this

1161
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,079
vault in a couple of cities where you

1162
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,680
can go deposit your thousands of gold

1163
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:31,920
that you're hauling around you can

1164
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:34,079
barely move and then if you go to

1165
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,359
another city that has a quote-unquote

1166
00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:39,520
vault you can just withdraw your funds

1167
00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:41,680
so you're not hauling around sacks of

1168
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,599
gold with you at all times

1169
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,400
but where do you keep the gold that's

1170
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:49,760
another fun one

1171
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,720
so apparently when marco if you believe

1172
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,440
the

1173
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,800
his own accounts mark marco polo and

1174
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,400
there are reasons not to believe

1175
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,359
everything that he says

1176
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,280
when he actually came back from mongolia

1177
00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:02,880
with enormous wealth

1178
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:07,119
considerable amount of it he converted

1179
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:09,200
to gems and sewed it into his clothing

1180
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:12,079
and it turns out they did get shaking

1181
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:14,319
down because the cons power kublai

1182
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:15,760
khan's power was loosening and the

1183
00:43:14,319 --> 00:43:17,440
golden pass

1184
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,119
passport that protected him didn't

1185
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,319
protect him all the way back to

1186
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:21,839
samarkand

1187
00:43:20,319 --> 00:43:24,800
but he still had a lot of wealth because

1188
00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:26,960
he he had done what any good d character

1189
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,280
would do which is converted as gold into

1190
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:33,040
gemstones yes which are more easily

1191
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:36,640
portable yeah so gary geigs i think got

1192
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:39,040
it too he may have read that same book

1193
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,560
now that that idea of depositing in one

1194
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,560
sitting and being able to access those

1195
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,480
funds another another city is a classic

1196
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,640
one of my modern tropes that i would i'd

1197
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,319
absolutely use because it's just that

1198
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,599
it's that quality of life thing that

1199
00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:53,680
just makes sense i want to mention the

1200
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:56,720
knights templar

1201
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:59,040
or if your listeners are unaware of the

1202
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:01,839
knights templar they're missing out

1203
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,839
um this is fascinating so part of the

1204
00:44:01,839 --> 00:44:06,720
thing that they're known for is letters

1205
00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:09,760
of credit and and transporting and and

1206
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:12,240
storing gold but uh

1207
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,520
a lot of the books about templars are

1208
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:15,440
very biased

1209
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,520
they're not good history there are a lot

1210
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,200
of popular books that are poor history

1211
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,960
it doesn't matter

1212
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,880
right because there's they're based on

1213
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,440
some evidence and you can you can refine

1214
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,160
them for your game and by the time you

1215
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,880
file the serial numbers off anyway right

1216
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,920
and it's no longer recognizably templar

1217
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,640
your idea yeah yeah the inspiration will

1218
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,680
be will be just as good yeah i wanted to

1219
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,760
pick up on something we talked about

1220
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,359
earlier on i forgot until recently was

1221
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,760
when we were saying about how if you if

1222
00:44:41,359 --> 00:44:45,520
you speak to it at you know an npc they

1223
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,800
might not know what happened for

1224
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,839
whatever reason it might be or there

1225
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,839
might be a

1226
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:51,839
super expert despite being relatively

1227
00:44:49,839 --> 00:44:53,440
young whatever it might be but of course

1228
00:44:51,839 --> 00:44:55,280
there's always

1229
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,599
the the trope and i don't i'm not like

1230
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,359
this isn't like a weird cringey thing in

1231
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:01,280
your circles but like history is written

1232
00:44:59,359 --> 00:45:02,480
by the victors to use a

1233
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,400
classic

1234
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,480
cliche but obviously obviously that you

1235
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,480
can you can fold in to your your world

1236
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,760
building and then also the sources you

1237
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,280
were saying you know like discredited

1238
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,680
sources are unreliable sources the

1239
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:16,640
unreliable narrator which is the way of

1240
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:19,119
the dm to talk through npcs anyway i

1241
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,560
just love i mean it sounds i sound so

1242
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:22,240
machiavellian because it's like none of

1243
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,910
my players can trust any npcs now with

1244
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:24,400
all these like

1245
00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:26,240
[Laughter]

1246
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,920
nothing is true

1247
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:32,000
but i love kind of thinking about

1248
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,680
why those things have happened or have

1249
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,800
come you know why that

1250
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,400
this thing is

1251
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,920
in a positive light or a negative night

1252
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,839
or why these people don't like talking

1253
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,280
about a certain event or why this other

1254
00:45:39,839 --> 00:45:44,079
sort of people really do like talking

1255
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,640
about that certain event is that's super

1256
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:47,839
fun to think about whether your players

1257
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,319
actually make use of it or not is a

1258
00:45:47,839 --> 00:45:53,200
different question entirely but

1259
00:45:50,319 --> 00:45:54,880
an eye-opening experience i had was i

1260
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,440
intentionally bought a book of world

1261
00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:00,400
history written by a british historian

1262
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:03,040
which had a certain view on colonialism

1263
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,560
of course also had a a rather different

1264
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,119
view than what i was accustomed to on

1265
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,680
the american war of independence okay

1266
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:12,000
that was fascinating and i think he had

1267
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,359
he had a new perspective i don't it's a

1268
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,680
little heavy so i don't want to get into

1269
00:46:13,359 --> 00:46:17,680
it yes but

1270
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,680
i can i can imagine yeah yeah but the

1271
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,839
other thing that's kind of fun is you

1272
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,400
have the official accounts the you know

1273
00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:27,280
but then you also have pamphlets and

1274
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:30,319
even in a society where not everybody's

1275
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:33,839
literate you might have graffiti even

1276
00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:35,440
with greek history and egyptian history

1277
00:46:33,839 --> 00:46:37,520
i remember

1278
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:40,000
one of my egyptologist friends told me

1279
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,000
that yes you have stuff scribbled on the

1280
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,480
pyramid walls where the workers were

1281
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,839
that says pharaoh got really drunk last

1282
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:51,520
night and i remember seeing um

1283
00:46:47,839 --> 00:46:54,880
i used to work on greek uh greek i guess

1284
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:57,599
epigraphy so random scribbles all over

1285
00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:00,000
the place and there was this adult

1286
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:03,200
entertainment quarter where that it said

1287
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,480
you know the prostitute uh bubalian is

1288
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,880
really hot

1289
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:09,760
stuff like that so you might get a

1290
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:13,599
different view of history or of events

1291
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,920
by looking at scribbles pamphlets things

1292
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:18,720
that don't come from the top down and

1293
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,160
that's always been interesting yeah

1294
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,079
there's a there's a meme that's going

1295
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,839
around and it's an image of

1296
00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:25,280
like a rabbit or hair or something it's

1297
00:47:23,839 --> 00:47:27,200
like what the creature looks like now

1298
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,280
what the skeleton looks like what

1299
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,839
historians would extrapolate and it's

1300
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,920
some you know prehistoric looking

1301
00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:36,240
monstrous creature and the same can be

1302
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,000
said for these kind of things like

1303
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:38,800
just some scribblings on the rule that

1304
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,800
says

1305
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,400
this prostitute is a hottie

1306
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,400
that could be incorrectly extrapolated

1307
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,920
out to be like that is a whole city of

1308
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,359
prostitutes and in reality it wasn't it

1309
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,440
was just like one building it was like

1310
00:47:47,359 --> 00:47:51,440
one brothel but in you know because of

1311
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,680
the extrapolation of well that's just

1312
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,040
what that means that that is the same

1313
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,319
it's the same thought process which is

1314
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,200
quite interesting and you can have those

1315
00:47:56,319 --> 00:47:58,640
kind of

1316
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,280
yeah

1317
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,839
now i want to make an elf in my world

1318
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,599
who's sort of like a sancho ponza who

1319
00:48:03,839 --> 00:48:07,920
thinks that nothing is significant and

1320
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:09,440
important and uh the bard tells him

1321
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,800
about this big event he says oh yeah i

1322
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,800
remember that that wasn't a big deal

1323
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:20,800
uh that's great oh we i'm i'm super

1324
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:22,480
happy because we we've

1325
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,240
hopefully provided so much of these

1326
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,720
little just these little little tiny

1327
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:28,559
little nuggets of like world building oh

1328
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:30,400
yeah that's that's something interesting

1329
00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:31,280
to think about that can be used in so

1330
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,319
many

1331
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,480
ways

1332
00:48:32,319 --> 00:48:36,559
it's super interesting for me certainly

1333
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,079
coming from a not the historian

1334
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:40,559
background by any stretch of the

1335
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:42,480
imagination it's cool it's just cool i

1336
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:44,319
can't i'm i've run out of superlatives

1337
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,640
to describe the uh

1338
00:48:44,319 --> 00:48:48,160
the use of having these kind of these

1339
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,240
this knowledge and these points of views

1340
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:52,319
put on i did have one

1341
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:54,240
final thing from from me though i wanted

1342
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:56,000
to talk about and we we did touch on it

1343
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:58,079
briefly when you were looking to the

1344
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,960
berlin wall and that kind of stuff and

1345
00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:02,880
living through history is

1346
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,960
i guess with some ttrpgs more than

1347
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,760
others but let's stick with the classic

1348
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,960
heroic fantasy for sake of argument

1349
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,400
you know would you say it's the job of

1350
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,920
the player characters to to make history

1351
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,800
and with all that baggage that has a lot

1352
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,630
more baggage for you guys than it

1353
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,599
probably has for me

1354
00:49:15,630 --> 00:49:19,440
[Laughter]

1355
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:22,559
i think most people want their

1356
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:26,319
characters to be important and more

1357
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:29,200
important and interesting than they are

1358
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:32,160
but i don't have to be

1359
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,920
julius caesar or charlemagne

1360
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,280
and in fact that was something i ran

1361
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,920
into when i was

1362
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:40,720
running white wolf at some point like

1363
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:43,200
everybody important was a vampire i was

1364
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:44,800
like no this is silly i'm i'm not going

1365
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,119
there so there's that but then you have

1366
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,760
achilles and you have hector

1367
00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:50,960
and they are cool in different ways

1368
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,599
perseus

1369
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:55,760
cool and different ways so

1370
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:57,920
i think characters should be cool

1371
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,559
characters should be unusual for crying

1372
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:03,599
out loud even frodo ends up being

1373
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:04,720
unusual um and fit the most famous of

1374
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:06,640
hobbits

1375
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:08,160
to put the movie out the book because

1376
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,920
here we go

1377
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,319
but i don't think they have to make

1378
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,280
history as such necessarily what do you

1379
00:50:12,319 --> 00:50:15,119
think

1380
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,920
i think you're you're asking about

1381
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:19,680
agency what's the agency of player

1382
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,200
character maybe i am maybe i'm not who

1383
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,240
can say it

1384
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,760
well that's how i would answer is i

1385
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:28,240
think players want to want to feel that

1386
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,400
they have agency in history they don't

1387
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:33,119
want their characters to just witness

1388
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,040
history they want their characters to

1389
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:38,319
influence history

1390
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:41,200
and it's can be hard to know

1391
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:43,760
if you're influencing history or not

1392
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:46,960
back to the berlin wall the guy who

1393
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,559
started hammering on the berlin wall

1394
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,319
that night

1395
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:52,240
may not have known that the wall would

1396
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:55,359
be down

1397
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:58,240
24 hours later maybe he did

1398
00:50:55,359 --> 00:51:00,880
but i think that the the players want to

1399
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:02,400
feel that

1400
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,720
they want to know

1401
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:08,800
the events that they're steering for

1402
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:10,160
shaping have historical weight i don't

1403
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,240
know

1404
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,760
if players

1405
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:17,200
want to know

1406
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:19,680
the long view right so maybe you help

1407
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,599
restore the king

1408
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,440
right the post came to his rightful

1409
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:26,400
throne

1410
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:28,960
do the players want to know

1411
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,079
20 years later what people think of that

1412
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,720
king

1413
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:34,640
i i don't know that's

1414
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:37,119
i think maybe you may not you don't even

1415
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:40,559
need to i'm thinking in particular of

1416
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:42,960
the pre-published shadow run and call of

1417
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:46,079
kazulu adventures that i've read they

1418
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:48,079
have a very interesting format the group

1419
00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:50,160
goes and does things and especially in

1420
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:52,400
shadowrun we're now not talking major

1421
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,400
history we're talking them you know

1422
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,240
pulling one over on a large corporation

1423
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:59,440
that was up to no good

1424
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:02,400
but the adventure ends by essentially

1425
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:05,760
reading a newspaper snippet on what the

1426
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:08,240
outcome was of these characters actions

1427
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:10,319
so maybe you know cthulhu is very

1428
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:12,559
similar you know after this happened

1429
00:52:10,319 --> 00:52:15,760
such and such got arrested and then this

1430
00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:17,599
cult got eradicated over here and this

1431
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,599
other thing happened that maybe sets you

1432
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:22,480
up for your next adventure

1433
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:24,960
but depending on what the group did

1434
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:27,520
these vary i think there's more than one

1435
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,520
option usually if they did such and such

1436
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,720
read this if they did the other thing

1437
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,880
read that

1438
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:35,599
and i think agency is actually exactly

1439
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,760
right here we want our actions and our

1440
00:52:35,599 --> 00:52:39,760
choices to matter they don't have to be

1441
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,000
on a large global scale

1442
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,599
what's the outcome yeah i like that that

1443
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,200
is nice little touch

1444
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:46,800
and quite an elegant solution to like a

1445
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,119
post-campaign

1446
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,680
almost like a post-credits scene of

1447
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:53,440
of a campaign for example of of having

1448
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,800
that outcome and

1449
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,559
what i was thinking about while we were

1450
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,240
talking there is yes

1451
00:52:56,559 --> 00:53:00,480
some players more than other characters

1452
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:02,480
more than others might want to have that

1453
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,000
big impact on the world but

1454
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,520
typically in these worlds you still have

1455
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,880
you still have the kings

1456
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,800
as you mentioned you still have the

1457
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,160
world leaders you still have the tribal

1458
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,359
leaders you still have the people that

1459
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,280
are the historians who can write

1460
00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:15,680
whatever the heck they want so

1461
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,559
ultimately all of that stuff is in some

1462
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,319
ways

1463
00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:20,079
the nature of the setting rather than it

1464
00:53:18,319 --> 00:53:21,599
is the players they might save the world

1465
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:23,119
and it might be like oh the world's not

1466
00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:24,880
going to end hooray

1467
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:26,720
a generation of

1468
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,359
species later

1469
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:30,640
who cares anymore like it's it's a bit i

1470
00:53:29,359 --> 00:53:32,079
want to end on this bit of sweet notes

1471
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,240
so please save me actually if you have

1472
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:35,680
anything more that you wanted to talk

1473
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:37,440
about that we haven't we haven't quite

1474
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:40,559
got to yet anything we might have missed

1475
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,559
yeah i want to say you don't have to

1476
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:44,400
start out what you're saying with me

1477
00:53:42,559 --> 00:53:46,880
when i talk about history and talk about

1478
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,960
the parent thesis and you know i i

1479
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,359
picked up some heavyweight real

1480
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,760
scholarship books and read them even

1481
00:53:51,359 --> 00:53:55,680
though it's not my academic field you

1482
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,640
don't start that way right the gateway

1483
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,960
drug

1484
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:02,240
is wikipedia

1485
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:03,680
or you can watch documentaries the bbc

1486
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:05,200
makes wonderful

1487
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,720
documentaries

1488
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,960
secrets of the dead really recommended

1489
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,720
yes very much so

1490
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,760
national geographic

1491
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:15,200
and

1492
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,720
as i said i would recommend that you

1493
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,920
start with um

1494
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:22,720
with a period that has a printing press

1495
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,720
unless you have a creative reason not to

1496
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:28,640
right if you're trying to get

1497
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:31,040
more of a dark ages or i don't know um

1498
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,359
classical mediterranean

1499
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,800
vibe in your world then then obviously

1500
00:54:33,359 --> 00:54:36,319
those you'd look at the corresponding

1501
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,200
period but if you don't know where to

1502
00:54:36,319 --> 00:54:39,520
start

1503
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:42,000
i would say start with 16th century

1504
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,920
europe awesome thank you

1505
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,319
well in which case is there anything you

1506
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:48,960
would like to promote

1507
00:54:46,319 --> 00:54:53,119
there is as a matter of fact we are

1508
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,119
shoestone publishing and we

1509
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,880
wizardry where

1510
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:07,200
all the player characters are wizards

1511
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:10,559
and the magic is closely based on

1512
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:12,880
historical grimoires of what people

1513
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:16,160
actually thought spells could do

1514
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:19,280
at a time when magic was taken seriously

1515
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:21,599
and it turns out to be surprisingly

1516
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:24,480
playable that magic

1517
00:55:21,599 --> 00:55:26,799
and it's relatable so it's

1518
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:29,680
well that's that's what we want to pitch

1519
00:55:26,799 --> 00:55:33,040
is uh is our role-playing game which you

1520
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:34,480
can find on drive through rpg or on the

1521
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,680
shoestone website

1522
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:39,839
awesome amazing well as usual all the

1523
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,760
links will be in the episode description

1524
00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:44,000
below and i would encourage you everyone

1525
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,720
listening to that sounds

1526
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:50,799
surprisingly playable is the is the box

1527
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:51,520
text i think for the i love it

1528
00:55:50,799 --> 00:55:53,680
well

1529
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:56,240
i think the the important thing

1530
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,319
for us when we pick the period was

1531
00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:01,839
besides the period being fascinating and

1532
00:55:58,319 --> 00:56:03,520
the golden age of magical scholarship

1533
00:56:01,839 --> 00:56:05,920
everybody's had to slog through

1534
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,160
shakespeare in high school everybody's

1535
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:10,640
had to read something about the period

1536
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:13,040
and if that's all the research you've

1537
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,160
ever done and all the research you ever

1538
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:17,040
want to do

1539
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,559
that's fine run with it but you know

1540
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,720
something about it

1541
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:22,640
yes indeed indeed well all that's left

1542
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:25,280
for me to say is thank you ever so much

1543
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,640
guys that was amazing i i had so much

1544
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,079
fun

1545
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,760
wow i wish i could travel back in time

1546
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:30,799
and tell my younger self doing secondary

1547
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,640
school history you're gonna have so much

1548
00:56:30,799 --> 00:56:34,880
fun talking about it in

1549
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,720
in 20 years

1550
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,760
so no thank you so much guys oh it's a

1551
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:41,680
real pleasure thanks yes awesome

1552
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:44,400
great to meet you likewise thank you

1553
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,440
everybody listening at home as usual

1554
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,960
please check out everything in the

1555
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:50,240
episode description links to everything

1556
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:52,799
is there as it always is otherwise thank

1557
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:55,200
you all for listening and good night and

1558
00:56:52,799 --> 00:56:58,400
now it's time for the patreon shout outs

1559
00:56:55,200 --> 00:57:01,280
thank you to robert hartley dm for viva

1560
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:03,359
la dirt league and writer on the dnd

1561
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,960
logic web series

1562
00:57:03,359 --> 00:57:07,760
i would encourage everybody to check him

1563
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,799
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

1564
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,040
twitch

1565
00:57:08,799 --> 00:57:13,440
thank you to optional rule a two-time

1566
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:16,240
guest of the show and a very insightful

1567
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,520
and knowledgeable source of information

1568
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,520
please check them out at

1569
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,520
www.optionalrule.com

1570
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:26,240
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1571
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,720
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1572
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:31,040
out there making hilarious and

1573
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,799
educational dungeons and dragons content

1574
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,559
please go and check out his stuff at

1575
00:57:32,799 --> 00:57:36,960
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1576
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:38,559
links to all of his socials and all of

1577
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,240
his content including his own patreon

1578
00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:42,000
which i would very much encourage you to

1579
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:44,880
check out

1580
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,880
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1581
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,160
on twitter for supporting the show

1582
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,079
if you need support running your

1583
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:53,280
personal or business schedule head to

1584
00:57:51,079 --> 00:57:55,040
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1585
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,119
make that difference between should do

1586
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,880
and done boss it better with support

1587
00:57:57,119 --> 00:58:01,200
from cat who will help you get back that

1588
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,640
essential time you've been searching for

1589
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,559
if you would like to support what we do

1590
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:07,280
and get four shout outs a month head

1591
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:08,799
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1592
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:12,770
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1593
00:58:08,799 --> 00:58:19,780
kofi.com thinking critically

1594
00:58:12,770 --> 00:58:39,920
[Music]