Experimenting

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welcome thinkers to season 4 episode 8

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of thinking critically i hope you're all

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enjoying the new two weekly schedule

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it's been a lot easier for me so i

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really appreciate your patience between

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episodes

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if you like what i do you can always

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check me out on patreon or kofi i know i

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say at the end of the episode but this

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time i'm front loading it

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so yeah links to both of those can be

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found on the website at thinking

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critically dot co dot uk

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and the other thing to plug which i

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don't do enough is i'm also part of an

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actual play podcast called dungeons dice

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and dudes so you can find links to that

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on my website as well in the footer so

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head over there and then you can listen

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to me play as well otherwise

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let's get on with the show

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by nick thank you

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ever so much for joining us today nick

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can you tell us a little bit about

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yourself hi my name's nick i'm the host

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of the hidden gems podcast it's an

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interview show for game masters where i

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search the community for gms with

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successful and interesting campaigns and

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interview them in a casual one-on-one

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format

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my guests come from a range of

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backgrounds all levels of experience

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from new dm's who just wrapped up their

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first campaign to actual play podcasters

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to pro dms with decades behind the

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screen and everybody in between

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i recently had the pleasure of joining

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dan lowe

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on negative modifiers extra life charity

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stream where we played a tales from the

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loop scenario gm'd by charlie aka mordak

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the host of negative modifier i've been

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gm'ing since middle school i have about

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23 years of off and on experience with

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role-playing hobby

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i've played about two dozen role-playing

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systems and gm'd many of those and

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currently i'm running three campaigns

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a heavy metal themed campaign set in my

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own homebrew world in 5th edition i have

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a fallout campaign also home brewed set

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in canada

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and a play-by-text mothership campaign

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set in a derelict research vessel wow

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okay so

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a lot a lot of experience the one thing

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i wanted to pick up on there is

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yes we we met on the

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the negative modifier charity stream

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and i know you said charlie aka mordeck

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i know we joked about it at the time but

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i also want to say for full disclosure i

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also thought it was like more 4k until

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until that recording so

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yes it does read like more in 4k yep

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good

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so i feel like i've been sitting on that

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for so long so now i'm happy to to get

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it out there

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confession received

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um today's topic is experimenting so

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what does that mean to you in the d d

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and wider ttrpg framework to me

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experimenting can kind of just be summed

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up by saying trying new things i mean

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that could be new approaches and

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techniques

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taking risks

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the whole process of finding your play

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style whether that's as a dm or

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as a player just through trial and error

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experimenting with different settings or

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even different game systems

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all of those things can be included and

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an experiment could be as simple as

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trying a new race class combination or

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it could be something where you change

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how you think about role-playing at a

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fundamental level

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and uh it's just kind of exploring the

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hobby

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yeah i like the the

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variation in scope there from the the

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micro of like oh let me try this new

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item all the way up to

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as i want to talk about now let me try a

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completely new system so

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going into that

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uh especially negative modifier charity

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stream i was a bit anxious because i had

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told charlie when we were obviously

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talking about it in the preamble i was

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like hey just to let you know like i've

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never played this

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like i you're gonna need to do some

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handholding so that was very much for me

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an exercise in experimenting with a

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completely new ttrpg system yeah it was

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that your first uh system that wasn't d

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or have you played some others prior to

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that i had played

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in the loosest

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connotation of fiasco which i know isn't

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really a ttrpg it's more of a party

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improvisation game so i played fiasco

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with friends of the show tabletop

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journeys i played against the dark

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master for a gunner i jumped on their

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channel for a bit i had we had one game

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with the makers of against the dark

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master

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and

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i have the alien rule book but i have

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not played it i just love reading it

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[Laughter]

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and

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that may well have been it yeah so going

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into tails and loop i had no real idea

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and

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that was a lot to pick up so obviously

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my bread and butter my long term is

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d5e right which has for all its

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pros it has

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several many

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drawbacks i think it's fair to say uh

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it is it's purpose built for sure what

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do you think you got out of like

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experimenting with those other systems

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did it affect how you think about dnd or

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how you play

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yeah absolutely not maybe not it hasn't

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been long enough yet for that to filter

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through to how i play certainly not in

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the middle of the chapter that we're in

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but in terms of thinking about how other

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tt rpgs can be played yeah absolutely

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like the next morning i was thinking

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about towson loop and i think i messaged

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my friends hey i played this last night

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and it was really cool

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and it was a piece of cake for me to

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pick up in

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having never played it before that's

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definitely something we could do because

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i find maybe it's just the way i run my

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dnd games but it's also the ones i play

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in a very

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the devil is in the details it's very

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you know the microscope is on everything

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it's very minutia it's very like i want

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to walk here okay that will take you

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five minutes what's everybody else doing

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in that five minutes i want to

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look in my bag roll me an investigation

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check to dig through your back like it's

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very

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i don't want to say clunky because that

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is a negative connotation but it is very

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focused on

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the moment-to-moment minutiae of what

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that particular character is doing

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yeah it sounds like your current

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experiment with your style is that you

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are

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kind of leaning on the system to to

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resolve detail instead of hand waving it

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yeah and a lot of the like more

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narrative driven ones will lean on just

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your capabilities as an improviser

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narrator and less so on your reliance on

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the structure of the system

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yeah yeah that that was really

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really high like to me as i was the best

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way to learn because i was in i was in

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the process of contributing to it not

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just a passive observer and the one

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thing that really you know there's the

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meme in dnd of iv right it's don't split

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the party because

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it's dangerous in a in universe sense

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but also it's a pain in the backside of

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the dm to manage to

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at parties and the thing that really hit

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me with tails from the loop

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was when one of the guys was like i go

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to the video store to see if there's any

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videos to rent and i was like oh they're

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just you can you can do that

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that's just i can just go and somewhere

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else and suddenly be somewhere else and

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it'd be fine and be on this completely

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different thing and

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no one

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is freaking out about it

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that was the mo that was my light bulb

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moment when i was like ah

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this is a different way to play here

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this is a completely different way to

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play these yummy juices this would never

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happen in any of the d d games i play in

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that would be immediately like well

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that's going to take you three hours

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what's everybody else doing for three

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hours well i do this and i do that i i

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think a lot of those like kind of the

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wisdom the conventional wisdom that

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we've collected for from playing hours

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and hours of these games it's like never

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split the party is almost like it would

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be on one of those live laugh love

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posters like you know one of your 10

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commandments of d but i also think that

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experimenting is trying to responsibly

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break those rules so how can i split the

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party and do so in a way that's still

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compelling for the players who aren't in

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the scene how can i do it in a way that

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still accounts for time

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and it doesn't put the party in

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immediate jeopardy or if it does does it

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do it in a compelling way so i think

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those rules are

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great guidelines but as you kind of

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continue to experiment you find ways to

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break those rules

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in interesting ways

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yeah it's not it's definitely a

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platitude or as i said a meme like it's

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it's gone round so much so that it's now

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a joke rather than a genuine like a

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gender

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yeah that was the real bit where i was

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like oh okay this is

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i see now why this is different and i

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can see now the draw that these

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narrative style ttrpgs have over

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what everybody now considers

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the ttrpg

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d5e how mainstream is would you ever

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consider kind of like

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leaning a little less on the like the

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minutia at any point just kind of doing

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a little bit more hand waving and

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getting a little bit more loosey-goosey

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kind of like these more narrative driven

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systems in your 5e games or do you think

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that the strength of the 5e system is

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that you

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that it supports your style

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uh i've already started to move away

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from

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being so precious about you know what

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what's happening moment to moment i've

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i've already trained started to train

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myself into moving away from like the

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information goblin and i can't let my

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players know anything and they need to

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roll and this certainly i've already

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taken those steps to be like no it's

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it's just going to be quicker and easier

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if i just say you know this about this

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and that's it like no no rolling that's

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and now

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well straight back with the players and

279
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,440
it's their agency and it's their story

280
00:09:59,519 --> 00:10:03,200
and i've just so i've already started to

281
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,079
make those steps

282
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:08,320
the problem no not a problem uh the

283
00:10:06,079 --> 00:10:11,200
situation i find myself in is that

284
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,079
several of my players are

285
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,680
quite

286
00:10:12,079 --> 00:10:14,880
mechanically focused

287
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:17,279
so they love

288
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,680
a traditional dungeon crawler they love

289
00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:22,079
the bigger numbers that get bigger and

290
00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:24,240
do more damage and they take less damage

291
00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:26,560
that's their their bread of butter so

292
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:29,279
there's i'm kind of restricted a little

293
00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:30,800
bit in scope as to how how

294
00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:33,120
much i can push up against that boundary

295
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:35,360
there before they go oh this is now

296
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:38,079
uncomfortable territory for me and

297
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,839
this is not the dnd that i signed up for

298
00:10:38,079 --> 00:10:41,200
yeah i mean it's i guess it's important

299
00:10:39,839 --> 00:10:42,720
to know your audience and kind of know

300
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,560
your players and

301
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,480
don't give anyone whiplash by changing

302
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,680
your style in the middle of a campaign

303
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,600
too much

304
00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:51,600
so i can see why

305
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,440
that i don't know i think that it sounds

306
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,440
like your players and you would be a

307
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,360
great pairing like sometimes it's hard

308
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,920
to find a table that plays the way you

309
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,240
want to play and it sounds like you've i

310
00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:04,160
don't know maybe you struck gold there

311
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,760
no well no i'm not about to say that

312
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,650
i've i'm the person who's found the

313
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,760
unicorn um for sure

314
00:11:07,650 --> 00:11:12,000
[Laughter]

315
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,079
it's harder for everybody not just

316
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,440
myself to find that balance we have some

317
00:11:14,079 --> 00:11:17,040
players who are only there just for the

318
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,000
social element and we have some players

319
00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,680
who

320
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,040
are there for the role play and we have

321
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:22,320
some players who don't like to do role

322
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,480
play at all so

323
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,160
there's overhead on everybody to balance

324
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,920
all of that out so it's it's you know

325
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:32,720
you'd probably have more mileage or

326
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,959
overall maybe perhaps more enjoyment if

327
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,959
you had four of the same styled players

328
00:11:34,959 --> 00:11:38,160
rather than five

329
00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:40,000
sometimes quite radically different

330
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,839
players

331
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,240
but in a way that that comes together to

332
00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:46,240
make its own beast that everybody enjoys

333
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,279
so um but what about what about yourself

334
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,720
and what about your players in your

335
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:50,959
games because how many games did you say

336
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,920
at the beginning i'm i'm currently dming

337
00:11:50,959 --> 00:11:56,880
three or gaming three i've got my heavy

338
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,959
metal themed d d campaign which is an in

339
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,760
person game

340
00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:02,320
with

341
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:05,360
three players and then i've got a

342
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:07,519
virtual game which is my fallout 2d20

343
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,920
it's the modiphius system

344
00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:12,480
that system is a lot of fun and the way

345
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,160
that even between those two games

346
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,079
the way that i run them is very

347
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:19,040
different in the types of experiments i

348
00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:19,920
run while running those games are wildly

349
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,360
different

350
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,200
and then i have a third game which is

351
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,600
just between me and my sister where we

352
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:28,560
play uh over text and it's

353
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:31,680
the mothership system which is a sci-fi

354
00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:34,720
horror system that is it's incredibly

355
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:36,959
efficient it's about a 35 to 40 page

356
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,600
manual that looks like a little fan

357
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:41,279
magazine it's about that big i made a

358
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,800
small book shape with my hands for the

359
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:45,360
benefit of the listener

360
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,920
and in those 40 pages they give you all

361
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,600
the tools you need to run an effective

362
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,519
sci-fi horror

363
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,360
game that has

364
00:12:51,519 --> 00:12:55,920
you know pretty robust mechanics and i

365
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,760
would not describe it as rules light

366
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,279
and it's the economy of words and the

367
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,920
economy of space in a book is

368
00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:04,000
commendable and i i've run both that and

369
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,600
i've run alien and i love both of them

370
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,600
for different reasons but i'm like how

371
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,920
come it takes this giant

372
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:12,720
tone to make alien work and then i can

373
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:15,279
almost do alien in mothership system

374
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,040
with 40 pages of information it's wild

375
00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:18,959
i've got the a i've got the alien star

376
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,120
set so my books my rule book is only

377
00:13:18,959 --> 00:13:23,360
like a centimeter thick luckily i've

378
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,600
seen the the real one though and it is

379
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,040
like a two inches thick and i i do love

380
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,399
the starter set

381
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,480
rule book because it's like a work of

382
00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:32,160
art as in there are literal just double

383
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,760
spread pages which are just

384
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,480
a picture with the the title of the

385
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,720
chapter on which i think is that's so

386
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,320
gorgeous they are in that is great but

387
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,240
it it's really really weird because you

388
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,079
said you wouldn't describe mothership as

389
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,279
rules light and then that got me

390
00:13:44,079 --> 00:13:46,480
thinking that there are rules light

391
00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:48,560
systems that are like you know on a

392
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,079
single page for example on each io or

393
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:52,480
something you can find 100 which are

394
00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:53,600
just like here's four stats roll a

395
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,760
couple of these sixes here's what

396
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,760
happens in the game go ahead and do some

397
00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,560
weird and wacky stuff and then you have

398
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:03,279
something in the middle like mothership

399
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:05,519
and then you have the beast which

400
00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:08,560
something like dnd has grown into now

401
00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:09,600
where you have three quote-unquote core

402
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,519
books

403
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,800
right which arguably sometimes you need

404
00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:15,440
three of them sometimes you don't even

405
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,480
need one of them

406
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,600
you know and then if you start to

407
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,440
include all the splat books you're up to

408
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,480
god knows how many pages and pages and

409
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,399
pages

410
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,800
of books and again it begs that same

411
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:28,320
question of like hang on let me pump the

412
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,760
brakes a little bit

413
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,720
why do i need like

414
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:35,519
300 pounds worth of books

415
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,360
yeah i agree i think that not only are

416
00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:39,440
the the amount of

417
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,800
pages needed to convey a system or a

418
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,279
setting uh

419
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,800
so different but also just kind of

420
00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:47,279
the room that you have to play as a

421
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:50,079
player or your room to experiment as a

422
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:53,440
game master are also just as varied you

423
00:14:50,079 --> 00:14:56,639
know it's like in d i find a lot of my

424
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:59,600
experiments are related to either

425
00:14:56,639 --> 00:15:02,000
encounter design or how i actually you

426
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:04,639
know approach running the table whereas

427
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,240
with a game that's more rules-like my

428
00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:08,399
experiments are going to be more

429
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:11,040
thematic in nature i guess

430
00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:13,440
and i kind of play with how i'm

431
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,639
narrating and

432
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:19,519
less i i focus less on

433
00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:21,199
math experiments and you know well how

434
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:23,199
how many phases should this boss have

435
00:15:21,199 --> 00:15:25,120
how much you know how big should this

436
00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:26,639
city be how many taverns are there it's

437
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,600
like i don't get as much into that

438
00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:32,000
minutia it's more thematic and set and

439
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,440
setting experiments yeah okay let's i

440
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,720
mean hopefully this is going to take up

441
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,600
a large chunk because there's several

442
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,680
things

443
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:40,480
there that i want to pick up on

444
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,320
let's start with well let me let me for

445
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,160
the benefit of the listeners and mainly

446
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,800
so you can remind me when i inevitably

447
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,800
forget about it so i want to talk about

448
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,720
experimenting in dnd5v for the first

449
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,399
part here so like your experience is

450
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,000
what you do what you get out of it what

451
00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:56,160
bits you experiment with and why you do

452
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,160
it and then i want to move on to that

453
00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,560
dichotomy between what you just

454
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,320
described of i'm doing like a maths

455
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,399
experiment like i'm

456
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,959
literally theory crafting i think is

457
00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:08,560
quite a nice appropriate term for it

458
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:10,160
versus

459
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,240
experimenting in

460
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,639
the theme or the story or i want to see

461
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,639
how this story plays out is it quite a

462
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:19,360
vastly different beast so that's what i

463
00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:21,360
want to come to later on and

464
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,639
listeners can tell me off for forgetting

465
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,720
about it in

466
00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:26,800
30 or so minutes

467
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,199
but before then let's talk about

468
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,279
5e then and i'm glad you mentioned that

469
00:16:29,199 --> 00:16:32,399
there that you do experiment in it

470
00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:34,160
because one of my questions was going to

471
00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:37,199
be like how do you

472
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:39,440
well how do you do that and that i

473
00:16:37,199 --> 00:16:41,199
definitely do that and i'm super happy

474
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,680
because it's very easy to conceal

475
00:16:41,199 --> 00:16:46,160
experimentation to the players i find

476
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,920
i've maybe maybe that's the benefit of

477
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,759
all these books and all these rules and

478
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,440
and getting booked down in the details

479
00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:53,040
is that it's this

480
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,959
mist between

481
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,279
what the players experience and the

482
00:16:54,959 --> 00:16:58,800
magic that i've i'm trying out for the

483
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:01,600
first time yeah

484
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,519
well in d d i mean i guess in role

485
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,160
playing in general but specifically to

486
00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:09,280
dnd i i kind of view game mastering as

487
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:12,240
like a multi-disciplinary art form that

488
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:14,799
rewards those who experiment with new

489
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:17,120
avenues of self-expression

490
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:19,039
and whether that's on the visual side

491
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:21,600
whether you're creating new visual media

492
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:23,760
map making building props painting up

493
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:26,400
miniatures terrain crafting or even

494
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,240
costume making if you want to

495
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,360
show up to your table in a wizard's robe

496
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,039
or something

497
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:33,120
or it could be set and setting stuff

498
00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:35,840
like music and lighting adding sound

499
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:37,600
effects uh even stuff like choosing food

500
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,640
and beverages to have at the table like

501
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:43,600
at my heavy metal campaign we we drink

502
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:46,559
our beverages from these huge metal uh

503
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,640
tankards or steins

504
00:17:46,559 --> 00:17:52,080
and it's just kind of it puts us in the

505
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,120
mood for like a very intense heavy metal

506
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,799
mood

507
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:57,280
and then stylistically you can even

508
00:17:54,799 --> 00:17:59,200
experiment there with like how linear or

509
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,960
how sandbox do you want to go

510
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,840
thematic choices like our choice with

511
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,480
the heavy metal campaign to really focus

512
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:09,600
on the music first and kind of

513
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,919
be very forward with our inspiration of

514
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,760
like utilizing heavy metal music as a

515
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:15,360
source of inspiration

516
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,039
and then you know campaign structure

517
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,360
choices like are we doing arcs are we

518
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:22,000
doing chapters or are we just going to

519
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:23,600
go free form long form short form all

520
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,679
those things

521
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,320
specific to this campaign

522
00:18:25,679 --> 00:18:31,919
i've done some experimenting with the

523
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,120
music which the conventional wisdom is

524
00:18:31,919 --> 00:18:35,120
music should be

525
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,880
without lyrics preferably

526
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:38,960
it should be subdued

527
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,640
or at least not distracting and then

528
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,080
played in the background at a

529
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,880
respectable volume where you're not

530
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,240
going to be yelling over it but

531
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,640
since i was approaching this from the

532
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,000
heavy metal angle i was like i want the

533
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,320
music to kind of be more front and

534
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,640
center than that and i actually allowed

535
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:57,280
the players to choose themes for their

536
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,679
characters like our warlock chose deadly

537
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,679
nightshade by the sword as their main

538
00:18:59,679 --> 00:19:03,520
theme and his battle theme is black

539
00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:05,600
tongue by mastodon

540
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,480
and then he even chose a sad theme which

541
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:11,440
was the song helpless by witchcraft and

542
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,600
the way that i use these music pieces in

543
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,720
the game is i kind of whenever there's a

544
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:20,320
moment that is of significant weight

545
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,840
someone important dies um a mighty enemy

546
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,760
is felled

547
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,919
that's when the music can kind of swell

548
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,840
and you you get

549
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:29,360
i kind of take a step back from

550
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,600
narration and just kind of let the music

551
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:33,360
tell the story for a little while

552
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,440
so that was that was a major experiment

553
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:37,760
in that campaign and

554
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,360
i went against conventional wisdom and i

555
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,280
feel like i've been rewarded for it it's

556
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:44,720
it's kind of made me think about using

557
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,240
music differently in d

558
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,919
and uh

559
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,440
my players seem to really enjoy it as

560
00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:51,280
well

561
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,360
yeah i too have

562
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,200
have playlists some some of which are

563
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:58,320
there to evoke a certain

564
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,799
emotion but haven't ever it is more

565
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,880
tricky remotely because

566
00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:03,380
players pesky players are in control of

567
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,960
how loud

568
00:20:03,380 --> 00:20:06,320
[Laughter]

569
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,240
the music is if you if you're playing

570
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,760
through like a discord bot or the web

571
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,440
the web browser or whatnot and they can

572
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,720
always just turn that down but that's

573
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,360
something to think i know there's an

574
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,120
indie um and a couple of my friendship

575
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,640
groups on twitter there's a couple of

576
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:21,679
guys in the uk in the game that have

577
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:24,400
just done their first they used

578
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:27,919
kickstarter to do their first tt rpg uh

579
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,360
motorcycle nights halcyon days which is

580
00:20:27,919 --> 00:20:31,120
heavily i haven't seen it but it is

581
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:33,039
heavily focused on

582
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:35,679
music like music again is it drives but

583
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:37,039
it's more of a 80s 90s vibe rather than

584
00:20:35,679 --> 00:20:38,559
a heavy metal kind of vibe but it is

585
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:41,919
again it's like you pick a song that

586
00:20:38,559 --> 00:20:44,000
defines your character and and so on and

587
00:20:41,919 --> 00:20:44,880
so on and so that's clearly something

588
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,840
that

589
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:51,360
happens now now i've got two anecdotes

590
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,640
to two two examples to pull on

591
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:53,600
i don't know i don't know if the tricky

592
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,200
thing is like i don't know whether my

593
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,960
players would even bother like if i

594
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,600
asked them to think about it

595
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,520
i'd probably get one response and then

596
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,440
sure two months later maybe another

597
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,000
response and then i would give up asking

598
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,720
them it might be worth trying

599
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,400
well

600
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,960
i will support

601
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,640
this uh as a possibility for people who

602
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,799
you could run a hundred campaigns and

603
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:18,320
only one of them be themed around a

604
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:20,240
genre of music so it's not a

605
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,640
experiment that i would use in another

606
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,679
game perhaps but for this specific

607
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,159
campaign

608
00:21:23,679 --> 00:21:28,559
it's such a useful tool like just the

609
00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:30,320
the song choices

610
00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:32,080
they tell a lot about the character that

611
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:35,039
i might not get from a three-page

612
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:37,039
backstory you know there's emotions

613
00:21:35,039 --> 00:21:39,679
that the music evokes that it would be

614
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:41,200
very difficult as just an amateur person

615
00:21:39,679 --> 00:21:42,640
writing some

616
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,880
facts on a sheet about your character

617
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,480
it's that that might not capture

618
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,000
so i think it does add a depth to the

619
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,240
characters and also

620
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,760
because this is a heavy metal game my

621
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,600
kind of

622
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,480
mantra is always like how do i turn this

623
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,640
scene up to 11. how do i make this more

624
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:01,039
epic more over the top

625
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,120
and uh the music is a big part of that

626
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:04,480
some other things that i've done is and

627
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,400
this is more in the mechanical side

628
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,440
which is what you were initially curious

629
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:12,960
about is every battle that

630
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:15,120
i put before the players i try to add

631
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,039
mechanics that uh that are more than

632
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:19,360
just beat up the enemy until they have

633
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:21,440
zero hit points our first encounter in

634
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,559
this campaign was

635
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,120
the parties

636
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:27,760
had these kind of hang glider slash you

637
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:30,960
know glide suits that they glided down

638
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,480
onto the back of this giant flying whale

639
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,360
because one of the players in his

640
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,280
backstory was a sky whaler and i thought

641
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:40,240
what a cool way to start this out were

642
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,640
beginning the campaign on a flying city

643
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,480
they skydive down onto the back of this

644
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,159
whale now the fight was

645
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,080
a pretty typical level one fight you

646
00:22:46,159 --> 00:22:49,679
know you had a couple of orcs and a few

647
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,799
other humanoids that they were battling

648
00:22:49,679 --> 00:22:55,440
against but the battlefield itself was

649
00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:57,840
part of the encounter there the giant

650
00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:00,000
whale itself had four hearts and in

651
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,840
order to make this whale

652
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,600
crash to the earth they needed to stop

653
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,480
two of its hearts

654
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,640
and

655
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:09,360
to top it all off uh this whale would

656
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,120
rotate and move through the air so

657
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:13,280
sometimes the battlefield would go 90

658
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:15,200
degrees on its side and

659
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,919
orcs would be falling off of its back

660
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,440
and just cascading down to the earth

661
00:23:17,919 --> 00:23:22,000
into oblivion

662
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:24,320
and the whale also had a big storm

663
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,720
cannon strapped to its back because

664
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,840
the whale was in control or was being

665
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,679
controlled by some whale riders so this

666
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,080
storm cannon played an environmental

667
00:23:31,679 --> 00:23:36,000
hazard factor so they were not only

668
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,440
on a tilting and moving environment

669
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,080
fighting these orcs but they were also

670
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,600
avoiding the range of this laser cannon

671
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,480
that could basically kill them in one

672
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,720
shot

673
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:47,360
so um yeah

674
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,279
that was a very difficult encounter to

675
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:51,760
balance because it's hard to factor in

676
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:53,279
like okay what if the players

677
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,360
don't secure themselves to the whale

678
00:23:53,279 --> 00:23:57,039
when it turns on its side

679
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,440
do i just tell them to scoop up their

680
00:23:57,039 --> 00:24:01,200
character sheet and see you next week or

681
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,159
what do i do

682
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,159
and

683
00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:05,760
it took a lot of just trust in the

684
00:24:04,159 --> 00:24:08,400
players to

685
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:11,600
let go of that control and during the

686
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,760
battle at actually as an npc died who

687
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,640
was of significant importance to one of

688
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,039
the players backstories it was uh the

689
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,200
wailing captain

690
00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:23,279
he was vaporized by the storm cannon in

691
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,240
like the third round of combat

692
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:26,080
and

693
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,720
with like it was just a very

694
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:31,279
unceremonious unfortunate death

695
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,120
and i had probably two pages of notes

696
00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:35,440
about this guy in my binder that are

697
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,919
just now in the recycling bin

698
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,080
so if you run an encounter as risky as

699
00:24:37,919 --> 00:24:41,600
that you have to be prepared to make

700
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,440
those hard decisions and just be like

701
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,880
yep that's what happened so

702
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,840
we live by the sword and die by the

703
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,080
sword yeah when you experiment there's

704
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,799
always a risk of it exploding to various

705
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:55,919
degrees to use a science uh analogy

706
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:57,200
there um that's i'm i kick myself

707
00:24:55,919 --> 00:24:59,360
because i

708
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,360
always go on this show oh yes great do

709
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,440
your encounters like you know the

710
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,200
environmental things in a very important

711
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,720
makes it exciting and then never do it

712
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,080
myself because i'm an idiot and always

713
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,320
forget about it and leave it to the last

714
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,600
minute and focus too much on building

715
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,080
the combatants

716
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:17,039
um i think you know i've done

717
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:19,520
rough terrain but i really need to do

718
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:21,520
like moving terrain or i need to crib

719
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,240
from other games and ball games like

720
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,600
when you first said they were

721
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,200
parachuting down i had the idea that

722
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,480
maybe they were you know maybe the

723
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,760
combat could have started while they

724
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:32,799
were wing gliding down and like every

725
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,640
every round they're forcibly moved 60

726
00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:36,720
foot to the left because that's just

727
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,559
them like they have to glide forward

728
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,200
because you're you're gliding you can't

729
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:42,320
just turn around and go back like you

730
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,520
have to kind of have that forward

731
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,279
momentum

732
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,559
some kind of forced movement or

733
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:48,320
something and

734
00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:50,000
having the whale rotate gave me breath

735
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,000
of the wild vibes when you're in the

736
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,080
beasts especially the bird in the air

737
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,120
that yeah rotate the body and it changes

738
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,720
the 90 degrees um which is great

739
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,240
a pain in the arse like map if you have

740
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,400
to like draw a map because it takes me

741
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,640
long enough to do just like a static 2d

742
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,880
town square let alone

743
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,200
anything exotic but definitely what i

744
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,120
want to do to resolve the landing i had

745
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,080
each player make a dexterity check and

746
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:14,159
it was

747
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,480
i usually do kind of a pass fail and not

748
00:26:14,159 --> 00:26:19,120
like a stratified check but in this case

749
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,520
i used a stratified dex check

750
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:23,520
and below a certain threshold i got to

751
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,360
place their mini on the whale wherever i

752
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,960
wanted it to be and i'd put them in very

753
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:29,039
inconvenient places if they scored

754
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,640
poorly yeah and then if they scored well

755
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:32,640
then they got to hand select where they

756
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,039
landed and if they scored badly enough

757
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:38,400
then they suffered tremendous injury

758
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:40,159
landing haphazardly on the whale so it

759
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,679
i think i was a missed opportunity i

760
00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:42,960
could have had them engage

761
00:26:41,679 --> 00:26:44,400
while they were still airborne i think

762
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,840
that's a cool idea

763
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,760
i may have to borrow that if they end up

764
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,600
hunting another sky with what you've

765
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,120
already got that might have been

766
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,559
overkill on top

767
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:54,320
it's a good it's a good opportunity to

768
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,799
use it again going forward in a similar

769
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,559
situation or at least like imagine how

770
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,640
many video games is there like a section

771
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:01,919
where you're falling and you can like

772
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,760
fight like anime and stuff when you're

773
00:27:01,919 --> 00:27:06,480
like fighting in the air like that would

774
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,080
be that would be sick to do a fight

775
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,960
where all the combatants are falling

776
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,159
until the warlock casts fly and goes i'm

777
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,919
not going to be part of this fight

778
00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:14,720
anymore bye

779
00:27:13,919 --> 00:27:15,520
yeah

780
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,279
but

781
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,960
you know that's still very you know a

782
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:20,399
very ticking clock like you have to do

783
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,080
it before you

784
00:27:20,399 --> 00:27:23,520
hit the ground and then you have to deal

785
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,039
with hitting the ground at some point as

786
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,840
well so

787
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:27,200
yeah

788
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,360
absolutely

789
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,919
that was a big risk putting this fight

790
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:34,640
in the air at low level because

791
00:27:31,919 --> 00:27:38,159
i kind of have a policy i roll openly as

792
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:40,880
a dm and i don't provide plot armor to

793
00:27:38,159 --> 00:27:43,520
my npcs obviously or to my players

794
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,200
either so if someone were to

795
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,200
fail a dex check at a critical moment

796
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,720
when the whale was rotating or they were

797
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,799
standing in the path of the storm cannon

798
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,279
i just kind of had to go into this fight

799
00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:54,880
knowing the risk that i could lose one

800
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:57,520
or all of the party

801
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,840
and without that risk i don't think that

802
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,559
the scene is as intense

803
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,240
so

804
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:04,240
that was another kind of experiment was

805
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,039
like pushing an encounter to a point

806
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,880
where

807
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:09,120
it could or possibly even should have

808
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,240
been a tpk and then just letting the

809
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:14,000
dice uh make the decisions and yeah yeah

810
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,520
i mean i'm glad you say you're on the

811
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,840
open as well that is another thing that

812
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:20,480
i like literally live experimented with

813
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,559
with my current game i went first 30 40

814
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,880
sessions of traditional dming with the

815
00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:26,799
screen and behind the screen and since

816
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,240
doing the show

817
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:30,640
especially this episode earlier on

818
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,240
season one on fudging when i was like

819
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,919
you know what i'm not

820
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,520
from almost from a laziness point of

821
00:28:33,919 --> 00:28:38,000
view i was like i don't really want to

822
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,240
have the meta decision of like do i save

823
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,000
this npc or not or do i make this enemy

824
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,200
hit uh or miss when they've just create

825
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,480
or something i don't want to have to

826
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,159
deal with that anymore i'm just going to

827
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,600
roll in the open and it just happens

828
00:28:48,159 --> 00:28:51,840
when it happens and now i've just taken

829
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,240
off all of that

830
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,080
burden on me so now i'm like oh this is

831
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,080
great i don't have to care anymore like

832
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,520
if they hit they hit if he dies he dies

833
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,679
like that's it absolutely yeah i i've i

834
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,559
kind of wrestled with the decision

835
00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:08,720
momentarily for d and d as to whether or

836
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:10,159
not i wanted to use hidden information

837
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,000
in that way or not

838
00:29:10,159 --> 00:29:13,600
and i understand the argument for both

839
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,520
sides it's like well it's another tool

840
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,760
in the toolkit sometimes you want to

841
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,679
make a role and not tell the players

842
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,360
what it's for like enemies who are

843
00:29:19,679 --> 00:29:23,200
acting in secret

844
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,240
or other things it's kind of you don't

845
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,679
want to give them too much meta

846
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,200
information by rolling and then you're

847
00:29:25,679 --> 00:29:28,399
like yep well

848
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,760
something happened i'm not going to tell

849
00:29:28,399 --> 00:29:32,080
you what it was

850
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,240
so i see that the advantages to hiding

851
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,679
it but i also think that the added

852
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,960
weight of showing the dice it kind of

853
00:29:37,679 --> 00:29:41,039
allows the players to know that the

854
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,880
threats are real or at least

855
00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:45,279
they're real to their characters

856
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:48,240
and that nobody's going to save them

857
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:49,840
other than themselves and their wits so

858
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,320
yeah it's all honest

859
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,120
they could they can trust you not to

860
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,360
pull any bs and even if you do crit four

861
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,440
times in a row you can be like well

862
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,760
you know that's me with a vendetta like

863
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,440
that's that is what it is like i'm sorry

864
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,960
yeah i feel just as bad for you as you

865
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:10,239
feel but right now absolutely

866
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,239
[Music]

867
00:30:12,830 --> 00:30:17,600
[Music]

868
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,760
one thing this conversation has done is

869
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,679
made me go i don't experiment enough

870
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,200
certainly with my my combat encounters i

871
00:30:21,679 --> 00:30:25,840
definitely need to think a little bit

872
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,960
more outside the box with varying i i

873
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,120
don't know i don't know whether the way

874
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,840
i do it is maybe the way i

875
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:34,159
approach campaign design is very

876
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,919
like all the fights tend to be just

877
00:30:34,159 --> 00:30:38,000
on ground level or an or in a place

878
00:30:35,919 --> 00:30:41,840
where it doesn't make sense to have a

879
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:45,039
lava flow moving through or steam vents

880
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:47,120
or a landslide it's it is very much like

881
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:49,840
i'm trying i've done yeah okay i could

882
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,000
have maybe done more on my last one

883
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,200
which was the one before i started

884
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,120
streaming where they were in like a

885
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,799
scrap a scrap yard essentially so the

886
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,120
ground was just littered with

887
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:00,480
you know basically playing in a junkyard

888
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,919
i don't think it was difficult terrain

889
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,679
but apart from that

890
00:31:01,919 --> 00:31:05,679
maybe i could have leveraged more there

891
00:31:03,679 --> 00:31:08,640
been more experimental

892
00:31:05,679 --> 00:31:10,240
but yeah i'm just trying to think of is

893
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,200
is there any opportunity coming up where

894
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,080
i could

895
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,840
have

896
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,760
yeah interesting encounters like i play

897
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,919
um i'm playing in a couple of days time

898
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,240
actually a gloomhaven board game regular

899
00:31:17,919 --> 00:31:22,000
listeners will know and that

900
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,480
certainly some of the side scenarios in

901
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,399
that have got exotic

902
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,399
terrain effects we played one last time

903
00:31:26,399 --> 00:31:30,480
we played there's one where it's

904
00:31:28,399 --> 00:31:33,360
it's there are rocks it is a landslide

905
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,519
it's like every at the lowest initiative

906
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,880
a row of rocks moves down the map and if

907
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:39,200
they move into the space that your

908
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,039
character is in you take next damage and

909
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,640
get pushed to the side so you can

910
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:45,039
obviously manipulate the enemies to be

911
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,200
in the path of the rocks or you can you

912
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:49,120
know use them to block off a part of the

913
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,919
thing if you position yourself correctly

914
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,799
and and so on and so on and then another

915
00:31:51,919 --> 00:31:56,640
side scenario you played was there is

916
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:59,440
strong winds your storm peak or

917
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:02,159
something it's it's very evocative

918
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,159
and every round you roll a

919
00:32:02,159 --> 00:32:05,840
d4 essentially to work out which

920
00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:07,519
direction the wind's blowing and all the

921
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,960
characters move

922
00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:11,279
you know two three squares two three

923
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,399
hexes in that direction cardinal

924
00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:14,720
direction

925
00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:16,399
and so you can again try and hedge your

926
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,159
bets and hope you move them into a trap

927
00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:20,640
or so on and so on

928
00:32:18,159 --> 00:32:22,159
so like i have enough

929
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,679
examples

930
00:32:22,159 --> 00:32:25,279
so i don't know why i shouldn't do more

931
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:28,080
of that stuff

932
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:29,440
it's tricky stuff like i i only recently

933
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,440
i would say probably in the last couple

934
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,640
of years started working more with 3d

935
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,640
terrain

936
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,519
an experiment where i was originally

937
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,120
using

938
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:38,159
styrofoam and cardboard and stuff to

939
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,120
craft

940
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:43,120
topographical maps and just kind of

941
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,320
representations of the towns and locales

942
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,399
that my players were visiting i was like

943
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,679
well i'm chopping all this foam up why

944
00:32:46,399 --> 00:32:49,760
don't i just make

945
00:32:47,679 --> 00:32:51,200
interactive three-dimensional terrain

946
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,640
for my battles

947
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:57,600
and so that level of production it's

948
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,279
it's a lot more difficult than just

949
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,880
drawing on the graph paper and just

950
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:03,039
putting down a 2d map

951
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,120
and the time commitment can be

952
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:06,000
like i don't know sometimes i'll spend

953
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,440
hours

954
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,360
on one of these maps and if my players i

955
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,679
i tend to give my players a lot of

956
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,080
choice and they they kind of have the

957
00:33:13,679 --> 00:33:18,559
ability to just be like well

958
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,399
we're not going there like cool and the

959
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:23,120
map stays in the basement and i save it

960
00:33:20,399 --> 00:33:25,360
for another campaign so i mean

961
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,640
that's kind of i would say the con of

962
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,880
taking on

963
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,880
more dynamic terrain incorporating

964
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,080
cardboard and styrofoam and paint it's

965
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,600
just like

966
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,519
you if you're giving your players a

967
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,039
certain degree of freedom you have to be

968
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:39,600
ready to leave those

969
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:40,960
in the basement or in the closet and uh

970
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,720
they may never see the light of day

971
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,720
which is heartbreaking but it's just you

972
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,559
know yeah it's part of the deal it's

973
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,640
less of an impact if it's just a cool

974
00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:50,799
idea you had once okay fine i can

975
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,720
probably reuse that cool idea

976
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:54,000
recoloured palette swapped somewhere

977
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,640
else but if it's

978
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,120
six hours of building a cityscape that

979
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,200
that city is now destroyed well that's a

980
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,880
different matter entirely like

981
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,559
yeah maybe you could rebuild that city

982
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,200
somewhere else but it's you can't just

983
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:08,960
pallet swap that easily that's

984
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,359
yeah at the beginning of the campaign i

985
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,599
had the benefit of kind of placing the

986
00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:15,679
characters in the world where i wanted

987
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:17,200
them to be so

988
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,560
i could pretty much guarantee that they

989
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,079
were going to jump down to this whale

990
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,480
they had they still had the freedom to

991
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:24,480
just not if they wanted to but it's like

992
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,960
come on who's not gonna skydive down to

993
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,560
a whale so i kind of dangled that carrot

994
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,000
and kind of put them on

995
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,839
with their toes over the edge of the

996
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,200
city to get us started

997
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:34,879
and so

998
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,359
i knew i wasn't gonna regret having like

999
00:34:34,879 --> 00:34:39,359
a three foot by one foot styrofoam whale

1000
00:34:37,359 --> 00:34:41,200
map and then

1001
00:34:39,359 --> 00:34:42,800
since we'd established in our world

1002
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,639
building that flying whales were a thing

1003
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,639
i was like even if they just say screw

1004
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:48,320
this i'm not taking the risk i know a

1005
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,159
flying whale may show up at some point

1006
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,000
so it's not going to be a waste of time

1007
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,760
you should have had it on a hog roast so

1008
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,760
you could have done the rotation that

1009
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,879
you had if you didn't now that's a lost

1010
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,839
opportunity

1011
00:34:56,879 --> 00:35:01,359
that is oh my gosh next time

1012
00:34:59,839 --> 00:35:04,480
well i still have the whale and i can

1013
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:06,960
always adjust it

1014
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,040
so i mentioned just a second ago that

1015
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,720
that we established sky whales and sky

1016
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,280
whaling in the world

1017
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,520
and another experiment that kind of was

1018
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,920
born of this campaign is something that

1019
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,839
was inspired by adventure zones etherc

1020
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,640
where before the campaign started they

1021
00:35:19,839 --> 00:35:23,920
had a prologue where they used these uh

1022
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,480
prompts from

1023
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,720
cards that led them through a series of

1024
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,520
questions and moments in the in the

1025
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:33,280
settings history that let the players

1026
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,400
collaborate with the game master to make

1027
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,720
the world

1028
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,119
so i kind of stole that idea made up my

1029
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,480
own prompts on various cards

1030
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:42,320
and uh

1031
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,400
during session zero instead of building

1032
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,079
characters we built the world so we went

1033
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,400
through the prompts every character

1034
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:50,240
every player got a stack of these cards

1035
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,280
and kind of got to

1036
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,200
choose

1037
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,200
how the world developed and

1038
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,040
i relinquished all control they were

1039
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,839
coming up with all the factions they

1040
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:03,040
even made the landscape and placed

1041
00:35:59,839 --> 00:36:05,280
significant threats on the map or

1042
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,520
we had one card that was a prompt that

1043
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,599
says wait who's in this game and i told

1044
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,760
them that prompt allows you to take a

1045
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:13,359
character or a concept from popular

1046
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,560
media and just stick it somewhere on the

1047
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:19,119
map and they chose sasquatch so

1048
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:21,680
now sasquatch is a real thing that is in

1049
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:23,119
my game somewhere in the middle of a

1050
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,200
forest so

1051
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:27,200
that experiment it's continuing to pay

1052
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,520
off i think that letting the players

1053
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,520
build the world improves buy-in i think

1054
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,440
it helps them remember the lore

1055
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,800
better because it's not just them

1056
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,240
sitting there listening to you read them

1057
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,880
a short story

1058
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:42,160
they created the story so they have

1059
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,160
a better grasp of all the ins and outs

1060
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,599
of the world because their fingerprints

1061
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,599
are all over it

1062
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:48,800
i also think that it hasn't paid off yet

1063
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:50,800
because this campaign is still pretty

1064
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,640
young but i think there's a big

1065
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,320
opportunity for callbacks that are very

1066
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,560
satisfying where someone's like oh i

1067
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,400
made up that npc or oh that's that's a

1068
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,880
civilization that i

1069
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,560
had creative control over so that pride

1070
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,000
of authorship is gonna make those big

1071
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,680
callbacks or those moments where they're

1072
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,760
like oh that's what that city looks like

1073
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,400
that i plop down on the map you know

1074
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:13,200
several months ago so that experiment is

1075
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:15,440
in progress and uh so far i don't i

1076
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,920
haven't detected any cons

1077
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,320
other than perhaps there may be a little

1078
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,160
bit less mystery about the world because

1079
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,880
the players were so integral in its

1080
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,320
creation so it's going to be

1081
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,720
less of a

1082
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,160
discovery of things that they've no

1083
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,720
concept of now they're going to be

1084
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,720
discovering things that they created

1085
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:36,880
yeah absolutely i've had i've heard

1086
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:38,240
people do similar things before and

1087
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,920
you're absolutely right about that

1088
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:43,040
improves buy-in i mean i know it would

1089
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,040
with me certainly be in that situation

1090
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,960
that is my next step as i said step one

1091
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,640
was me being less precious about data

1092
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,760
and the information step two is then

1093
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:54,320
being like here are the reigns players

1094
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,320
to the world

1095
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,119
which is a bit of a bigger cherry to pop

1096
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,920
for me

1097
00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:04,320
sure but absolutely it will help and it

1098
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,320
is it can you can very much fall into

1099
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:09,200
the trap i've done it i've been guilty

1100
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,760
of of being that dm that's just like a

1101
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,119
thousand years ago this happened and you

1102
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,119
don't know a lot about this and green

1103
00:38:13,119 --> 00:38:17,119
dragons are a thing here that now you

1104
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:19,119
know well you didn't know originally and

1105
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:21,599
it is just kind of like

1106
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:22,720
two-dimensional in a way i'm struggling

1107
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:25,680
for the words to describe it but it is

1108
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:28,160
very much like oh okay i'm having

1109
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,599
information poured into my brain whereas

1110
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,280
as you know you can see the difference

1111
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:33,040
from when they've made they've put green

1112
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,160
dragons in that location they can be

1113
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,560
like oh

1114
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:39,359
cool i see now

1115
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,440
i'm excited for what's what's coming up

1116
00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:44,560
i i do think that there's a kind of

1117
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:47,119
change in the paradigm of what your

1118
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:50,079
creative burden is as the dm

1119
00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:51,680
because now you're no longer just

1120
00:38:50,079 --> 00:38:53,359
pulling things from the vapor or from

1121
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,359
popular media and mashing them all

1122
00:38:53,359 --> 00:38:56,800
together to make something the players

1123
00:38:55,359 --> 00:38:58,800
have given you the gifts they've given

1124
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,400
you the clay and kind of told you what

1125
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,240
they expect in the world they're like

1126
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,240
this is how the world works

1127
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:05,680
and then it's up to you to execute so

1128
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:08,880
your creative energy instead of going

1129
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,960
into like synthesis is now on execution

1130
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,640
so the fact that they said yeah i'm a

1131
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,320
sky whaler like at first they were a

1132
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,960
whaler and then he was like no no no i'm

1133
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,960
a sky wheeler i hunt flying whales and

1134
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,800
then initially they were like

1135
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,040
hey there's these big serpents in the

1136
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,119
sky called auroboros and they're these

1137
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,359
serpents that are so large that a city

1138
00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:29,440
could exist on their back and they soar

1139
00:39:27,359 --> 00:39:31,520
through the sky on these weird uh

1140
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,680
helical patterns across the skies and

1141
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,200
it's like i was like wow that sounds so

1142
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,640
cool and then in the back of my mind i'm

1143
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,240
like now i have to figure out how to

1144
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,839
make that work so

1145
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:41,440
all of my creative energy is like how do

1146
00:39:39,839 --> 00:39:42,880
i make a flying

1147
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,359
circular city

1148
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,480
make sense and how do i make sky whaling

1149
00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:49,119
make sense

1150
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,800
and there's a lot of examples where they

1151
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:53,440
just handed me

1152
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,119
a gift where they were where they asked

1153
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,800
this is what we want

1154
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:58,880
now do it and it's some of it's pretty

1155
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,040
daunting like they're

1156
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,160
uh the ultimate weapon in this world is

1157
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,599
the dark saber from star wars okay if

1158
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,319
you're familiar with the mandalorian

1159
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:10,160
yeah and that was kind of a player

1160
00:40:08,319 --> 00:40:11,760
decision they were like hey the ultimate

1161
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,960
weapon should be the darksaber i'm like

1162
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,720
cool and they're like and we want it to

1163
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,640
be super unattainable and hard to get

1164
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:18,319
and i was like totally that's a great

1165
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,240
idea and then they were like and there's

1166
00:40:18,319 --> 00:40:22,079
a series of challenges and puzzles that

1167
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,359
lead to this thing and nobody's been

1168
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:25,280
able to solve it for a thousand years

1169
00:40:23,359 --> 00:40:27,440
and in the back of my mind i'm going

1170
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,520
okay so now i have to make a series of

1171
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,960
puzzles and challenges that nobody has

1172
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,560
been able to solve for a thousand years

1173
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,319
it has to be plausible that no one can

1174
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,040
solve this for a thousand years but it

1175
00:40:34,319 --> 00:40:38,960
has to be not only engaging and fun but

1176
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,960
possible for my players to solve these

1177
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,520
challenges and ultimately get the dark

1178
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,000
saber one day hopefully yeah so it's

1179
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,400
just like it's very easy to say make a

1180
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,640
series of impossible challenges but to

1181
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,160
actually have to execute on that is a

1182
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,400
massive challenge so maybe that is one

1183
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,240
of the cons of turning over the reigns

1184
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,440
completely is that you never know what

1185
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:59,839
your players are going to give you and

1186
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:03,280
say execute on this now that that is

1187
00:40:59,839 --> 00:41:06,640
absolutely a razor's edge of

1188
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:08,640
you've need to find the lost tomb oh we

1189
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,839
found it ding dong is here like that

1190
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,760
bridging that gap is is is difficult

1191
00:41:11,839 --> 00:41:15,599
like to keep it

1192
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,000
making sense but also have that sense of

1193
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:19,359
reward is is hard like

1194
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,839
and that obviously the higher the

1195
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:23,599
players get the the trickier it is

1196
00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:26,480
because their access to more stuff that

1197
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:28,480
can just bypass 80 of what you do and

1198
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,359
and and so on and so on but yeah having

1199
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,079
that

1200
00:41:29,359 --> 00:41:33,359
very similitude of of and again the the

1201
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:35,440
other the other problem there is

1202
00:41:33,359 --> 00:41:37,280
obviously you're dealing with human real

1203
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,520
people in the real world humans that you

1204
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,480
can touch and speak to and have day jobs

1205
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,640
and stuff

1206
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,599
and no disrespect but they're probably

1207
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,280
not

1208
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:46,640
clever enough to solve riddles that no

1209
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,599
other human has now

1210
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,760
you know

1211
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:51,680
like say they still need to be kind of

1212
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,079
within the bounds of human

1213
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,060
knowledge and understanding

1214
00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:56,720
for regular focus

1215
00:41:55,060 --> 00:41:58,720
[Laughter]

1216
00:41:56,720 --> 00:42:01,119
yeah it's it was a massive design

1217
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:02,720
challenge and and i haven't i i have

1218
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:04,400
ideas of how i'm gonna

1219
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:06,240
go about accomplishing this where it's

1220
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,440
like it seems plausible that no one

1221
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:10,000
could have solved this for a thousand

1222
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,160
years but this handful of

1223
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,000
people who are you know awesome people

1224
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,520
but still relatively ordinary people

1225
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,200
would be able to

1226
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,119
accomplish it but i just can't divulge

1227
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,119
that today the risk of my players

1228
00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:22,640
finding out

1229
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,680
i want to i want to come up now now

1230
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,640
we've been talking about i want to come

1231
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,160
up with like a series of stuff for like

1232
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,640
hio of

1233
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,400
almost party game styled world

1234
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,400
generation methods

1235
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,760
so what what you've just described while

1236
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,720
we were talking i was thinking about

1237
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,960
like a

1238
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:40,319
cards against humanity way of doing it

1239
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,920
so you have a black deck and you have a

1240
00:42:40,319 --> 00:42:43,359
white deck and one person picks the

1241
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,440
black deck and that's the prompt and

1242
00:42:43,359 --> 00:42:47,599
then each of the other players have got

1243
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,680
two choices that they can pick from a

1244
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:50,880
more randomized way of being like oh and

1245
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,880
then that you put them down in the

1246
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,160
middle and everyone votes on

1247
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,520
or maybe even that you know you could do

1248
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,359
proper cards against humanity and only

1249
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,599
the the you know the dealer in that

1250
00:42:57,359 --> 00:43:01,599
instance gets to pick what goes in and

1251
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:03,280
you can just go around that loop several

1252
00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:04,319
times and come out with something weird

1253
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,680
and whack it you know what i want to

1254
00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:07,680
come up with like a series of party

1255
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,599
games for world building

1256
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:12,560
that ranges from like

1257
00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:14,400
completely random to work shopping it

1258
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,640
with your players that's now a project

1259
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,839
that i've given myself which is great

1260
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,200
that's going to be awesome i can't wait

1261
00:43:17,839 --> 00:43:20,780
to see the result of that cool i'll

1262
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,920
speak to you about five years

1263
00:43:20,780 --> 00:43:25,599
[Laughter]

1264
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,800
drop me a message in five years and then

1265
00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:29,520
i'll tell you how long it's left on it

1266
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,920
[Laughter]

1267
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,319
have you done any other kind of

1268
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,520
i don't know the way to set like more

1269
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:37,839
traditional

1270
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,720
experimentation when it comes to 5v than

1271
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:42,000
like

1272
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:43,520
using a mummy lord in a in a certain

1273
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,040
fashion or

1274
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:49,440
tweaking combat in such a way that it

1275
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:52,800
works differently or

1276
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:54,720
some kind of setup or party dynamic or

1277
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,280
something like that that is

1278
00:43:54,720 --> 00:44:00,240
you know and how did that pay off and

1279
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,240
work sure i i've i've experimented with

1280
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:04,640
different methods of encounter balancing

1281
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:07,119
i feel like just leaning heavily on cr

1282
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,520
is uh kind of

1283
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:13,119
it's not going to work consistently i

1284
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,640
feel like cr is a tool but

1285
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:16,720
it would be very difficult to build an

1286
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,800
entire house with just a hammer so i

1287
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:21,599
think that you kind of need to

1288
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:24,560
make use of more than just just the cr

1289
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:26,720
like i i tend to use uh

1290
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,640
kobold fight club

1291
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:32,480
i tend to

1292
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,839
use action economy as a balancing method

1293
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,400
so if

1294
00:44:33,839 --> 00:44:38,000
the players have multi multi-attack and

1295
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,160
the in the monsters don't well i'm gonna

1296
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,040
need more monsters because i think of

1297
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,760
like

1298
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:46,800
an action as like one point

1299
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,880
of action economy and then

1300
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,520
you know you kind of want the turns to

1301
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,960
be you want the players to be slightly

1302
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,560
outnumbered if not

1303
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,880
significantly outnumbered because they

1304
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,839
have so many uh crowd control tools and

1305
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,520
mitigation tools yeah so i tend to use a

1306
00:44:59,839 --> 00:45:03,680
combination of kobold fight club i use

1307
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,839
the cr a little bit

1308
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,000
i weight enemies that are clumped

1309
00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:10,160
differently sometimes i don't even count

1310
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,040
them so if i have a wizard in the party

1311
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:15,440
and i have like 10 goblins or something

1312
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,040
and the wizard has access to fireball

1313
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,599
those goblins don't even show up in my

1314
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,680
calculation it's just there for fun for

1315
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:23,920
the wizard to see the destructive power

1316
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,280
of fireball yeah so

1317
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,520
a lot of that is

1318
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,720
comes down to experiment experimenting

1319
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,880
and just

1320
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:32,480
trying things and seeing how easy or

1321
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,480
difficult things are

1322
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,000
i know that a surefire way to shoot

1323
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,240
yourself in the foot is to have the

1324
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,000
monolithic villain where it's just

1325
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:41,920
you and the lich and your party of

1326
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,319
adventurers because even if that lich

1327
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,640
has access to legendary actions and

1328
00:45:44,319 --> 00:45:48,800
layer actions and other things

1329
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:51,119
the action economy is just gonna be a

1330
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:53,440
landslide against them so

1331
00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:55,599
after heartbreaking

1332
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,040
putting away minis that i spent like

1333
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:58,800
hours painting and just being like well

1334
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,920
yeah that was two rounds and now he's

1335
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,839
going back in the shoe box yep so uh

1336
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,680
after doing that a couple times i've i

1337
00:46:03,839 --> 00:46:07,359
started to realize yeah you gotta you

1338
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,760
gotta consider the action economy yeah

1339
00:46:07,359 --> 00:46:11,680
so that's a i would say that's

1340
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,680
pretty heavy effective hit points is a

1341
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:16,480
useful thing because if you consider

1342
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,599
your party's damage output and what kind

1343
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,760
of

1344
00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:21,599
types of damage they have access to

1345
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,760
yeah if you give an enemy a resistance

1346
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:26,079
to the damage they love to use then that

1347
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,599
enemy has double the hit points now so

1348
00:46:26,079 --> 00:46:29,760
there's just a lot of factors yeah

1349
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:32,079
single enemy encounters i love and i i

1350
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,720
hate i love them because it is a rights

1351
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:36,079
of passage for pretty much every dm i've

1352
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:37,520
played with the dms you've done it i've

1353
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:40,640
been the dm who've done it you've done

1354
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,319
it everyone i speak to is like yeah i've

1355
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,800
shared in that disappointment of having

1356
00:46:42,319 --> 00:46:47,040
a single big bad guy because i was you

1357
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,800
know inexperienced with combat encounter

1358
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,400
and thought it would be really cool

1359
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,240
and again that is a very much a learning

1360
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,880
experience and you know an experimental

1361
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:57,839
phase of bringing in oh maybe has two

1362
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,760
lieutenants maybe realizing two is still

1363
00:46:57,839 --> 00:47:02,560
not enough against the party of five and

1364
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,079
like okay then next time around what do

1365
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,280
i need to do and it's that

1366
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:07,200
i do quite

1367
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,720
i like education and i like learning and

1368
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,760
i like seeing

1369
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:13,040
people's

1370
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,160
light bulb moments so having seeing that

1371
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,839
progress

1372
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,079
come through is is always interesting

1373
00:47:15,839 --> 00:47:20,400
and yeah as i playing playing games with

1374
00:47:18,079 --> 00:47:22,640
the dm's done it and i can see

1375
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,839
no matter how good their poker face is i

1376
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,599
can tell because i've been in that

1377
00:47:23,839 --> 00:47:26,880
situation i could be like yeah you're

1378
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:28,820
you're kicking yourself now that you've

1379
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,119
only got one guy well i i i know you

1380
00:47:28,820 --> 00:47:32,800
[Laughter]

1381
00:47:31,119 --> 00:47:35,119
i know you've probably added about 100

1382
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:37,200
hp in the last 10 seconds just because

1383
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:39,760
you've gone whoops this has gone

1384
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:42,160
completely out the window uh so it i

1385
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,280
love it as a shared experience and i

1386
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:48,079
hate it because it's such a shortcoming

1387
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,599
yes it is such a such a common pitfall

1388
00:47:48,079 --> 00:47:51,440
and that's that's thing i haven't like

1389
00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:53,040
my big bad i haven't planned yet because

1390
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,400
it's months and months and months away

1391
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,640
but that's something i definitely need

1392
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:59,680
to do is consider

1393
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:03,280
what their minions what the the extra

1394
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:06,720
characters will be in that encounter yes

1395
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:08,720
i i i agree i think that having just

1396
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:10,640
that monolithic villain though all by

1397
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:13,119
themselves it just at least in this

1398
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,800
system it just it doesn't work

1399
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:17,040
i don't know there's some part of me

1400
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,480
that i love to to break with status quo

1401
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,119
and be like i could make a single

1402
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,800
villain work like i want to to

1403
00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:25,520
challenge it but i do think that that's

1404
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:28,319
a pretty it's a pretty uh

1405
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,839
well-established experiment people have

1406
00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:30,800
tried and failed that one enough times

1407
00:48:29,839 --> 00:48:33,200
that i think

1408
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:36,800
i'm ready to accept science i think i

1409
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:39,119
think you it clearly it it is possible

1410
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,040
but then you end up essentially

1411
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:42,160
running two or three

1412
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,000
different creatures but they're all

1413
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,359
called the same name and occupy the same

1414
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,280
space and have access to the same

1415
00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:49,359
features and have the same hp so you

1416
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,720
could basically give them maybe more

1417
00:48:49,359 --> 00:48:51,839
turns would be you know it would be a

1418
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:52,960
way to do it but again that's a bit of a

1419
00:48:51,839 --> 00:48:53,839
hack sure

1420
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,000
and

1421
00:48:53,839 --> 00:48:57,359
screams unfairness to the players if

1422
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,440
they've had

1423
00:48:57,359 --> 00:49:00,960
however many sessions and hours of of

1424
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,559
enemies that only take one action per

1425
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,559
round and then suddenly this guy in

1426
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:06,160
addition to maybe legendary actions and

1427
00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:08,880
i know there's action oriented design

1428
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:12,240
i've done that once and it was kind of

1429
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:14,400
okay it lessened the blow a little bit

1430
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:16,880
that had environmental effects that had

1431
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,000
a second phase even still it was still

1432
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:21,040
very

1433
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,160
like one versus six and it's just

1434
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,599
you know it doesn't take a mathematician

1435
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,359
to work out one's

1436
00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:26,800
how one-sided that

1437
00:49:25,359 --> 00:49:27,599
that fight is

1438
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,200
yeah

1439
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:30,800
and now i know listeners that we've

1440
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,720
we've gone over a little bit more than

1441
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,400
30 minutes so let's move on to the other

1442
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:38,559
bit there that i wanted to talk about

1443
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,559
earlier on good cover myself now

1444
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,000
uh is is

1445
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:43,359
the difference in

1446
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,599
building and experimenting with

1447
00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:47,599
different systems so we've talked about

1448
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:49,680
dnd 5e we've talked a length about the

1449
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:51,920
failings and the shortcomings of

1450
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:54,240
in encounter-based design

1451
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,040
uh chandra and design

1452
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:58,160
ways to band-aid that and so on and so i

1453
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,000
wanted to talk about and leverage your

1454
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,960
experience in other systems and stuff

1455
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,160
like tails from the loot product is that

1456
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,400
narrative

1457
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:08,000
experimentation how i can't even begin

1458
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,480
to think

1459
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:13,200
it seems to me

1460
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:15,359
like way more risky on one hand but also

1461
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,440
way lower stakes on the other hand i'm

1462
00:50:15,359 --> 00:50:19,119
really struggling to kind of pass what

1463
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,559
you know do you do

1464
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:22,400
do you hedge all your bets on like this

1465
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:23,839
weird experimental story you want to

1466
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,359
tell for it to maybe be completely

1467
00:50:23,839 --> 00:50:26,960
garbage and everyone have a bad time

1468
00:50:25,359 --> 00:50:29,359
like i don't i don't how you can how can

1469
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,200
you kind of recompense that with still

1470
00:50:29,359 --> 00:50:32,720
trying to provide a good experience like

1471
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,800
the worst case what happens if you if

1472
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:36,720
you misjudge a combat encounter in 5e

1473
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:39,040
the players go ah well that was easy and

1474
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:40,960
we're super strong and that's cool oh we

1475
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,920
got throughout the skin of our teeth

1476
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,000
and then that's it you have another

1477
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,040
combat encounter half an hour later and

1478
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,200
it's everyone's forgotten about the

1479
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,319
first one already whereas if you

1480
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,079
try and

1481
00:50:48,319 --> 00:50:50,880
some new way of telling a story or some

1482
00:50:50,079 --> 00:50:53,280
new

1483
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,720
plot thread that could just go

1484
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,960
completely wrong or perhaps i'm very

1485
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:58,240
naive

1486
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,040
no you're right

1487
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:03,200
i i think that experimenting especially

1488
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:06,160
in like rules light or

1489
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,800
or narrative forward systems

1490
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,480
it kind of comes down to

1491
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,720
trying to lean into the strengths of a

1492
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,880
system and really like

1493
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:17,839
flex the muscles that that system has

1494
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:20,559
like when i'm playing 7th c i experiment

1495
00:51:17,839 --> 00:51:22,880
with almost a completely different

1496
00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:24,880
set of personal rules for myself when

1497
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,880
i'm running that it's it's more of a

1498
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,480
storytelling game

1499
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,880
in the rules that it says it is

1500
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,680
impossible for the heroes to die

1501
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,040
and

1502
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,640
they cannot

1503
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:37,440
fail in their quest it's it's kind of

1504
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:38,400
like the story of how these heroes were

1505
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,599
awesome

1506
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,520
and

1507
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:43,760
a player i guess it's more accurate to

1508
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:46,240
say a player cannot die to anyone except

1509
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,839
for their arch nemesis so it's like

1510
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:49,359
every single

1511
00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:50,880
point of that game

1512
00:51:49,359 --> 00:51:53,760
is focused around delivering a

1513
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,599
satisfying narrative that kind of fits

1514
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,520
in your hero's journey

1515
00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:59,839
you know like the heroes rejecting the

1516
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,680
quest and then reluctantly accepting it

1517
00:51:59,839 --> 00:52:03,359
rising to the occasion

1518
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,839
the journey changes them in some way and

1519
00:52:03,359 --> 00:52:08,400
then they overcome evil and then they

1520
00:52:05,839 --> 00:52:11,040
either can return home and be like the

1521
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,960
samwise or they have to say no this

1522
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,599
adventure changed me too much and go the

1523
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:19,280
way of the frodo and you know sail off

1524
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:20,640
so i would say in 7c it is very contra

1525
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,680
to how i would run

1526
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:26,240
dnd i i tend to

1527
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,599
be a little bit i lean a little bit more

1528
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:29,520
on

1529
00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:32,079
narrative beats

1530
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:34,240
villains have more monologues

1531
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:36,640
i focus much more on capturing the

1532
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:38,960
feeling of being on a ship i actually

1533
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:42,160
added a system to 7th c

1534
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:44,079
where each player has a companion crew

1535
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,520
member which is an npc

1536
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:47,200
who

1537
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,680
they have a special relationship with of

1538
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,960
some kind either they're confidants or

1539
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,800
friends or

1540
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,559
rivals of some kind

1541
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,480
and so they have

1542
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:58,720
a character that is on the boat with

1543
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:01,280
them it kind of gives this feeling that

1544
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:03,440
the ship is not just the players there's

1545
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:06,000
a whole crew that they're working with

1546
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:08,240
during this kind of seafaring adventure

1547
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:14,160
and that's something i would

1548
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:15,680
never do for d i i feel like dmpcs are

1549
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,520
i mean i i've

1550
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:20,480
i've had a lot of failed experiments

1551
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,760
with the dmpcs and i've seen dmpc's kind

1552
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,599
of

1553
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,920
go

1554
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:28,720
go nuclear and kind of take up a lot

1555
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:31,280
more table time than they need to but in

1556
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:33,359
the in the context of 7c where

1557
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,200
we're telling the story of this crew

1558
00:53:33,359 --> 00:53:37,440
who's fighting against all odds and

1559
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,680
they've kind of you know become friends

1560
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,800
like and you want those npc deaths to

1561
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,119
have

1562
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,920
significant weight and the telling of

1563
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:47,520
that satisfying narrative of like yeah

1564
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,040
you know

1565
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,800
caroline

1566
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,319
struck by a stray cannonball and just

1567
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,319
have the whole table fall silent it's

1568
00:53:52,319 --> 00:53:56,559
like you're kind of trying to milk out

1569
00:53:54,319 --> 00:53:58,400
those moments whereas in d d i very much

1570
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:59,119
let the system tell the story and i

1571
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,960
don't

1572
00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:03,760
i don't guide the players

1573
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:05,200
through narrative beats i just kind of

1574
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,400
roll the dice and see where they may

1575
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,079
land

1576
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,559
i would also say that the action

1577
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:11,520
sequences in 7c are more

1578
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:13,920
uh

1579
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,760
the players have more power to describe

1580
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:18,480
what they're doing and kind of tell you

1581
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,960
like i spend one success to swing from

1582
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:23,040
the chandelier uh leap onto the

1583
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,520
villain's back and you know drive my

1584
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:27,280
rapier through his heart and you're just

1585
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,200
like yep you did that you know because

1586
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,200
like they're spinning successes and

1587
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,040
there is no way for them to fail in

1588
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,280
their in what they're doing

1589
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:38,720
there i mean there are combat rules and

1590
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:41,440
stuff in seventh c but a lot of them are

1591
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:42,799
very broad strokes very simplified yeah

1592
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,880
and

1593
00:54:42,799 --> 00:54:47,760
the conceit of the game is of course

1594
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:49,760
that the heroes win so

1595
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,359
that to me was playing in that system

1596
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,440
was a massive experiment to me because

1597
00:54:51,359 --> 00:54:56,480
it kind of went against you know my

1598
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:58,640
years with systems like shadow run where

1599
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,960
dying and unceremonious and silly death

1600
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:03,599
is like part of the game you show up

1601
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,119
with two character sheets

1602
00:55:03,599 --> 00:55:06,880
just because you know that you're

1603
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:08,640
probably going to you know trigger a

1604
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,799
trap or a mage is going to blow you up

1605
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:13,359
with a fireball or something the the

1606
00:55:10,799 --> 00:55:14,559
deadliness of those uh other systems

1607
00:55:13,359 --> 00:55:17,599
kind of

1608
00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:19,440
changes the vibe yeah yeah i i one thing

1609
00:55:17,599 --> 00:55:21,280
i've learned at this

1610
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,720
you know 15 minutes or so is that i

1611
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,319
definitely need to experiment with other

1612
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:25,760
systems i've had i've had my against the

1613
00:55:24,319 --> 00:55:27,359
dark master i've had my tails from the

1614
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,440
loop unfortunately we didn't get a

1615
00:55:27,359 --> 00:55:31,839
chance to try delta green but that

1616
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,520
certainly piqued my interest as well

1617
00:55:31,839 --> 00:55:36,079
yeah that's something i want to attract

1618
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,920
d100 for delta green is that correct i

1619
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:41,440
believe it's a percentile roll under

1620
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,720
system yes yeah so that that's again i

1621
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,720
think against the dark master was

1622
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:46,240
similar but it was such a light touch

1623
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:48,559
that it you know

1624
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,720
it's hard to kind of get a real grasp on

1625
00:55:48,559 --> 00:55:52,079
how it works so yeah that my main

1626
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:54,319
takeaway from this episode is i want to

1627
00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:56,000
try more dtrpgs and i want to tell my

1628
00:55:54,319 --> 00:55:57,920
listeners um

1629
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,280
but honestly i had i haven't had that

1630
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,640
light bulb moment

1631
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,720
for ages

1632
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:05,440
when i had that and tell us on the loop

1633
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:07,040
of that i go to the video store on vhs

1634
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,400
to the blockbuster and go and pick up a

1635
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,319
thing and me going just sitting there

1636
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,720
like a lemon i didn't come across like i

1637
00:56:10,319 --> 00:56:14,240
was just like a bit dumbfounded and then

1638
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:17,359
i had to like bring myself back in

1639
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:18,960
because oh that's that okay they're okay

1640
00:56:17,359 --> 00:56:21,359
they've gone this isn't

1641
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,880
fantasy sword and board wilderness

1642
00:56:21,359 --> 00:56:24,880
danger looks around every corner and a

1643
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,920
wizard might blow you up in a drop of a

1644
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,599
hat this is

1645
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,359
this is something completely different

1646
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:30,880
and that that is what i want to

1647
00:56:29,359 --> 00:56:32,400
encourage

1648
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,480
other other people to try and have those

1649
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:37,599
experiences too

1650
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:39,599
yeah i i agree that the the dynamics

1651
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:42,319
just between systems can be vastly

1652
00:56:39,599 --> 00:56:44,720
different as kind of a i understand why

1653
00:56:42,319 --> 00:56:46,000
people don't play other systems there is

1654
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:48,160
a large

1655
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,240
barrier to entry where it comes to

1656
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:52,720
player selection so

1657
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:54,240
i have a bookshelf over to my left here

1658
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:56,319
just off camera that is packed with

1659
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:59,359
role-playing game systems that i can't

1660
00:56:56,319 --> 00:57:00,799
wait to play but i can't you kind of

1661
00:56:59,359 --> 00:57:02,480
have to make that sales pitch to the

1662
00:57:00,799 --> 00:57:04,559
players like hey this may or may not be

1663
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:06,079
fun it's we're gonna like have to learn

1664
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:08,079
a system you may have to buy a book or

1665
00:57:06,079 --> 00:57:10,400
something or at least download a pdf

1666
00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:12,400
yeah for a quick start guide and like

1667
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,240
that kind of inertia is very difficult

1668
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,559
to overcome and

1669
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:19,040
once someone has a lot of effort sunk

1670
00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:21,440
into a given system like

1671
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,920
my my experience dming dungeons and

1672
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:26,319
dragons you know i've been playing d d

1673
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,280
since advanced dnd second edition i want

1674
00:57:26,319 --> 00:57:28,319
to say

1675
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,319
so

1676
00:57:28,319 --> 00:57:32,880
a lot of those

1677
00:57:30,319 --> 00:57:33,839
wisdoms and stories and all that stuff i

1678
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,920
it's

1679
00:57:33,839 --> 00:57:37,280
difficult to leverage that in a system

1680
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,079
like 7c

1681
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,440
where

1682
00:57:38,079 --> 00:57:41,680
it's a seafaring adventure where the

1683
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,440
heroes have to win and it's just you're

1684
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,559
just describing how cool they are when

1685
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,000
they win

1686
00:57:44,559 --> 00:57:46,960
and trying to

1687
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,880
kind of

1688
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,960
get the drama comes from the political

1689
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,359
intrigue or like how it gets done it's

1690
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:55,839
not so much will it get done

1691
00:57:53,359 --> 00:57:57,359
so i don't know it's

1692
00:57:55,839 --> 00:57:59,599
i think it's hard for people to overcome

1693
00:57:57,359 --> 00:58:01,040
that barrier where they're like well i'm

1694
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:03,359
am i going to throw away these like

1695
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:05,440
seven yeah maybe even 20 years of

1696
00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:06,480
experience with d d to try something

1697
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,200
else like

1698
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,640
this

1699
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,640
anime themed

1700
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,400
game where we're all you know playing

1701
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,000
children catching monsters and battling

1702
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,599
them against each other like i

1703
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,760
understand people's barrier to entry

1704
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:20,160
yeah and it's is that that initial

1705
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,920
inertia as well it's like hey this first

1706
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,680
session we're to be fumbling our way

1707
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,200
through and it'll probably suck but

1708
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,880
let's you know that that

1709
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,200
that kind of joint effort to power

1710
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,720
through is is tricky and now i'm

1711
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,480
concerned that

1712
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:35,599
ttrpg's are going to turn into my other

1713
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,280
hobby like ball games where i have

1714
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:38,720
in my chest of drawers downstairs off

1715
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,319
camera i have a chest of drawers full of

1716
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,359
board games they're gathering dust

1717
00:58:40,319 --> 00:58:43,440
because

1718
00:58:41,359 --> 00:58:46,240
we were playing like one routinely and

1719
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:48,480
that's that evening done and because

1720
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,720
life pesky life stops us from meeting

1721
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,319
more often like we don't get a chance

1722
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,160
like again we have to learn the rules we

1723
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:56,319
have to have that first game that will

1724
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,920
take two and a half times longer than it

1725
00:58:56,319 --> 00:59:00,240
should do really you have to stop every

1726
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,960
30 seconds to read the rules that is

1727
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:05,520
such a such an uphill battle but

1728
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:07,599
i want to tell people to to at least

1729
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,799
consider it

1730
00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:11,599
i agree

1731
00:59:08,799 --> 00:59:14,400
i mean i've kind of been lucky in that

1732
00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:16,240
several of my gaming groups were very um

1733
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:19,920
open to the idea of playing different

1734
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:22,319
games like i've played aberrant conan

1735
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,680
fates we played tales from the loop

1736
00:59:22,319 --> 00:59:26,799
i've played several of the star wars

1737
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:29,040
role-playing games alien like i the list

1738
00:59:26,799 --> 00:59:30,400
goes on and on um and

1739
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:33,040
none of that would happen if i didn't

1740
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:35,280
have like a thriving gaming community

1741
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,319
and some some close friends who were

1742
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,000
willing to

1743
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:39,440
experiment with those other systems with

1744
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,559
me and try it out

1745
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,119
uh so

1746
00:59:40,559 --> 00:59:45,040
and not not everyone is is as lucky and

1747
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:47,599
i know that that can be tough but

1748
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:49,680
absolutely there are a lot of rewards to

1749
00:59:47,599 --> 00:59:51,200
be reaped from

1750
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,680
trying new things

1751
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:55,280
and uh if you have the community that'll

1752
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,599
support it you should try it yeah

1753
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:59,280
absolutely well on that note is there

1754
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:00,960
anything that we haven't talked about

1755
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,040
yet that you you wanted to get to you

1756
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:05,440
wanted to discuss yeah there's a couple

1757
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,559
of things i i have a couple of

1758
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:09,119
um

1759
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:10,480
boundary pushing uh weird things that

1760
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:12,160
i've experimented with that i thought

1761
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:14,079
would be interesting to bring up

1762
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:16,000
one thing that i did i started with my

1763
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:17,920
7c campaign and it's kind of bled into

1764
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,640
my dnd play as well

1765
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:23,760
is incorporating out of game elements to

1766
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,839
affect in-game outcomes and

1767
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:28,640
conventional wisdom says never do this

1768
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:29,839
oh yeah it's immersion breaking it's a

1769
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,680
it's

1770
01:00:29,839 --> 01:00:33,359
it's taking uh the focus away from the

1771
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:35,280
character sheet and it's kind of you

1772
01:00:33,359 --> 01:00:37,440
know incorporating challenges that are

1773
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,280
outside the game to affect the in-game

1774
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:41,760
results can have negative consequences

1775
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:44,160
and i acknowledge that but i also know

1776
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:46,880
that it does have a lot of pros so for

1777
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:48,559
example uh during my seventh c campaign

1778
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,640
there was a festival going on and the

1779
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:52,559
crew visited this festival and there was

1780
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:55,680
a series of competitions

1781
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:57,680
including a singing competition so

1782
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:00,000
as part of resolving their success at

1783
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:03,599
the at the singing competition i allowed

1784
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:06,000
them to add modifiers to their score in

1785
01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:08,160
a karaoke contest so the modifier came

1786
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:10,960
from their skills from their character

1787
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:12,960
sheet yeah and then the resolution was

1788
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,040
we went to the youtube

1789
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,720
pulled open a karaoke video and let them

1790
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,760
choose the song and sing it in front of

1791
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,960
everyone

1792
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,559
and then we

1793
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,079
the other players kind of give them a

1794
01:01:20,559 --> 01:01:23,440
one to ten score on their singing

1795
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:25,839
performance and then you add your

1796
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:29,040
performance skill on top wow

1797
01:01:25,839 --> 01:01:32,000
now that was a super fun session

1798
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:34,319
uh was it immersion breaking oh yeah

1799
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,319
it definitely was and for some that's a

1800
01:01:34,319 --> 01:01:38,160
deal breaker because you know the

1801
01:01:36,319 --> 01:01:41,359
simulation focusing on immersion and

1802
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:42,640
escapism is like king but for this 7th c

1803
01:01:41,359 --> 01:01:44,240
game

1804
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:46,559
that wasn't my goal my goal was just to

1805
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:48,640
max out fun and just kind of go wild

1806
01:01:46,559 --> 01:01:50,960
with it so the karaoke contest was one

1807
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:53,839
thing i've used nerf guns to resolve

1808
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:56,240
archery contests before

1809
01:01:53,839 --> 01:01:58,720
i've made puzzles with like a prop

1810
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:00,400
element so i've kind of like made things

1811
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,480
that the players can fiddle with at the

1812
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,720
table and try and solve the puzzle

1813
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:06,799
as people and then when they solve it on

1814
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,720
the table then they've solved it

1815
01:02:06,799 --> 01:02:10,960
in the game and uh

1816
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:12,799
in my heavy metal campaign i made use of

1817
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:15,920
arm wrestling

1818
01:02:12,799 --> 01:02:18,160
one of my players was trying to get into

1819
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,359
a little bit of a bar scuffle and he

1820
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,359
challenged

1821
01:02:19,359 --> 01:02:24,000
the shadiest looking man in the room to

1822
01:02:21,359 --> 01:02:26,160
an arm wrestling match for information

1823
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:28,000
and i said cool we can either do a con

1824
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,920
contested strength role here or you can

1825
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:32,240
literally arm wrestle me

1826
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:35,119
and the player elected to arm wrestle me

1827
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:36,240
yes and uh yeah so

1828
01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:38,400
i think that those things are a lot of

1829
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,640
fun they're really engaging i do

1830
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:42,640
acknowledge the the drawbacks and i have

1831
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:44,400
no illusions that this is something i

1832
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,359
would recommend for every table

1833
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,799
but

1834
01:02:45,359 --> 01:02:48,319
without pushing the envelope and doing

1835
01:02:46,799 --> 01:02:50,720
weird stuff like that you just never

1836
01:02:48,319 --> 01:02:53,119
know yeah so i i encourage people to get

1837
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:55,359
weird with it you know pull out your

1838
01:02:53,119 --> 01:02:56,559
foam cutters and paints and make some 3d

1839
01:02:55,359 --> 01:02:57,440
maps

1840
01:02:56,559 --> 01:03:00,319
you know

1841
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:02,480
arm wrestle your players if you want to

1842
01:03:00,319 --> 01:03:03,920
start playing you know heavy metal music

1843
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,760
if it's appropriate for your campaign

1844
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,520
and just just kind of have fun with it

1845
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,960
oh man i'm kind of

1846
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,480
shooting myself in the foot now for

1847
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:13,839
getting over an hour in and that's when

1848
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,839
we start talking about karaoke

1849
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:20,240
yeah well thank you thank you um

1850
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:23,680
is there anything you would like to

1851
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:25,599
promote uh yes um my podcast is called

1852
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:27,680
the hidden gms podcast it's an interview

1853
01:03:25,599 --> 01:03:30,640
show as i mentioned and you can find it

1854
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:34,880
at hidden gms podcast.com

1855
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:37,039
um i'm at hidden gms on twitter and i'd

1856
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:39,200
be happy to hear your comments uh about

1857
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:41,920
any of my weird approaches to playing d

1858
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,839
d and of course correct me on any of the

1859
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:46,000
mistakes i've made describing the 7c

1860
01:03:43,839 --> 01:03:48,079
system or anything else i've

1861
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:51,119
aired on that's fine i welcome those

1862
01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:53,599
comments and uh yeah please reach out to

1863
01:03:51,119 --> 01:03:54,640
me if you want to awesome the only thing

1864
01:03:53,599 --> 01:03:56,079
that left

1865
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,839
then is for me to say thank you very

1866
01:03:56,079 --> 01:03:59,359
much for your time today nick that was

1867
01:03:57,839 --> 01:04:01,119
that was awesome very

1868
01:03:59,359 --> 01:04:03,039
interesting and for the listeners at

1869
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:04,799
home nick did know this going in but

1870
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:06,880
this is this is a second

1871
01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:08,880
episode in my series of

1872
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,400
not doing any preparation

1873
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:15,599
an experiment you might say on the

1874
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:15,599
podcast format and i hope it went okay

1875
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:20,240
oh dan lo i i had a blast and i would

1876
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:22,720
say the experiment was a success i i

1877
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:24,640
really enjoyed uh speaking with you this

1878
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,880
this fine day as well as playing with

1879
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:28,319
you uh during the stream so thanks

1880
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:30,960
awesome no worries thank you very much

1881
01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:32,559
again as usual all links will be in the

1882
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,400
episode description including the

1883
01:04:32,559 --> 01:04:35,760
charity stream nick and i are on a few

1884
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,599
weeks back i encourage you to go and

1885
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,359
check that out as that was maybe you'll

1886
01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:41,680
be able to spot the

1887
01:04:39,359 --> 01:04:43,520
the dumbfound light light bulb moment do

1888
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,039
you want to see that happen you can do

1889
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,760
otherwise

1890
01:04:45,039 --> 01:04:48,960
thank you all for listening and good

1891
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,559
night

1892
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,520
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1893
01:04:50,559 --> 01:04:54,720
outs

1894
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:57,440
thank you to robert hartley dm for viva

1895
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:59,680
la dirt league and writer on the d d

1896
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:01,280
logic web series

1897
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:04,079
i would encourage everybody to check him

1898
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,039
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

1899
01:05:04,079 --> 01:05:07,280
twitch

1900
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:09,760
thank you to optional rule a two-time

1901
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:12,559
guest of the show and a very insightful

1902
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:13,839
and knowledgeable source of information

1903
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:16,839
please check them out at

1904
01:05:13,839 --> 01:05:16,839
www.optionall.com

1905
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:22,559
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1906
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:25,039
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1907
01:05:22,559 --> 01:05:27,359
out there making hilarious and

1908
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:29,119
educational dungeons and dragons content

1909
01:05:27,359 --> 01:05:30,880
please go and check out his stuff at

1910
01:05:29,119 --> 01:05:33,280
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1911
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,880
links to all of his socials and all of

1912
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,559
his content including his own patreon

1913
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,319
which i would very much encourage you to

1914
01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:41,200
check out

1915
01:05:38,319 --> 01:05:43,280
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1916
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,799
on twitter for supporting the show if

1917
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:47,400
you need support running your personal

1918
01:05:44,799 --> 01:05:49,599
or business schedule head to

1919
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:51,359
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

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make that difference between should do

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and done boss it better with support

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from cat who will help you get back that

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essential time you've been searching for

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if you would like to support what we do

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and get four shout outs a month head

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over to patreon.com thinking critically

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or you can just buy me a coffee at

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kofi.com thinking critically

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[Music]