Experience

1
00:00:12,890 --> 00:00:16,659
[Music]

2
00:00:19,119 --> 00:00:24,000
hello and welcome to another episode of

3
00:00:21,119 --> 00:00:26,720
thinking critically a d d discussion my

4
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,400
name is dan lowe a d d dude and i like

5
00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,960
all kinds of games and the crunchy

6
00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,840
mechanics that make him tick

7
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,920
today i'm joined by ian langton a long

8
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:38,320
time d d player with plenty of

9
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,760
experience all the way back to second

10
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,160
edition

11
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,960
and he plays the bugbear death cleric

12
00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:46,399
gryshnak in my own campaign welcome ian

13
00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,280
can you tell us a little bit about

14
00:00:46,399 --> 00:00:51,520
yourself i don't know i have indeed been

15
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,680
playing d d for a long time in fact um i

16
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,520
started back in the late 80s

17
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,000
and in fact my first three tentative

18
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,359
steps were even further back than second

19
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,960
starting with first

20
00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:02,170
uh addition oh

21
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,840
take a drink

22
00:01:02,170 --> 00:01:07,040
[Laughter]

23
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,080
so indeed i'm playing a number of games

24
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,760
at the moment

25
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,080
i think it's fair to say that i took a

26
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,439
very long coyotes so i started back when

27
00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,320
i was 10

28
00:01:13,439 --> 00:01:16,720
probably

29
00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:18,640
played till my late teens and then

30
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,159
kind of really took a break until a

31
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,240
couple of years ago

32
00:01:20,159 --> 00:01:23,680
missing a few editions that won't be

33
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,799
shot be named

34
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,000
and

35
00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:28,799
yeah you know i've never looked

36
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,360
backwards since

37
00:01:28,799 --> 00:01:32,720
all right cool thank you very much

38
00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,360
so

39
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:38,840
today this episode we're tackling the

40
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:42,240
intriguingly ambiguous topic of

41
00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,200
experience ian what does that mean to

42
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,520
you

43
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,759
absolutely it's a massive topic and and

44
00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,240
to be fair we could probably write

45
00:01:47,759 --> 00:01:52,000
several sets of encyclopedias on it but

46
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,880
we'll try and pick out their key bones i

47
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,720
guess

48
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,799
so i think for me

49
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,240
there's quite a lot of places where it

50
00:01:56,799 --> 00:02:01,439
can apply

51
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,880
firstly i think and maybe as a nice

52
00:02:01,439 --> 00:02:05,439
bridge from

53
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,759
my own experience and and someone that's

54
00:02:05,439 --> 00:02:10,399
played the game for a long time

55
00:02:07,759 --> 00:02:12,560
player experience is a key facet

56
00:02:10,399 --> 00:02:14,160
of of dnd

57
00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,800
and really obviously

58
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,400
that really influences both how

59
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,319
obviously the players play

60
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,160
you know what the experience of the dm

61
00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:23,200
is can can make a big impact on the game

62
00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,080
too

63
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,239
um

64
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,560
and likewise obviously

65
00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:29,440
different levels of of player experience

66
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,280
can make

67
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,840
huge huge differences on on the overall

68
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:39,120
experience for the

69
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:40,959
game yeah sure i think as soon as i

70
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,040
started writing my notes about this i

71
00:02:40,959 --> 00:02:44,720
underestimated how broad

72
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,440
this topic is

73
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,519
but that makes me very happy because it

74
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,200
means that the format of the podcast is

75
00:02:49,519 --> 00:02:52,239
right because the whole point is that we

76
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,239
come at it from all these different

77
00:02:52,239 --> 00:02:57,120
angles and vectors and with all

78
00:02:54,239 --> 00:02:58,800
different oh i don't know experiences of

79
00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,640
that topic

80
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,800
so let's start with

81
00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:04,480
the literal definition

82
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,800
of the word and just talk about the the

83
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,959
experience of playing d d

84
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,080
as it is just just in its raw format at

85
00:03:08,959 --> 00:03:12,879
the table

86
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,720
what do you look for to ensure you have

87
00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:16,800
a fun time which is of course

88
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,440
the objective of everybody

89
00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:22,800
absolutely so i think for me

90
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:25,040
a big part of it is about variety i

91
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,239
think every every game of the indie i've

92
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,239
ever played

93
00:03:26,239 --> 00:03:30,720
has had something unique to offer and

94
00:03:28,239 --> 00:03:32,400
particularly as you move between

95
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,640
different groups of players

96
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,560
and obviously together the different

97
00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:39,920
character that you may pick

98
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:41,760
absolutely has a huge influence on

99
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,519
how you play but really what i'm looking

100
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,400
for i think personally

101
00:03:43,519 --> 00:03:48,959
for a good dnd experience uh is plenty

102
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,720
of variety i think uh i definitely

103
00:03:48,959 --> 00:03:53,040
prefer longer

104
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,040
more narrative driven campaigns but i

105
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,920
think also it's great to see those

106
00:03:55,040 --> 00:04:01,040
narratives almost be created

107
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,920
organically as the campaign runs on

108
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,599
yeah

109
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,879
so you're almost writing your own story

110
00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:08,799
rather than sort of almost being

111
00:04:04,879 --> 00:04:09,920
railroaded into someone else's

112
00:04:08,799 --> 00:04:11,360
when you say

113
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,439
when you say variety there you talking

114
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,400
about the three core pillars of d dnd

115
00:04:13,439 --> 00:04:18,880
absolutely and and i think for me

116
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:21,280
particularly a lot of my experience was

117
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,720
very heavily combat driven in some of

118
00:04:21,280 --> 00:04:24,320
the campaigns that i played when i was

119
00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,479
much much younger

120
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,800
so there's one pillar there that has

121
00:04:26,479 --> 00:04:30,800
some bias but i think really i think

122
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,320
like anything cliche to say variety is

123
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,040
the spice of life

124
00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,639
but i do think that like a great artist

125
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,800
an ideal campaign

126
00:04:36,639 --> 00:04:41,360
is kind of well painted making use of

127
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:44,240
all three of those pillars so not one of

128
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,040
them ends up being the overwhelming part

129
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,520
okay

130
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,759
so talking of your experience then and

131
00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,000
what you're looking for now we have that

132
00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:54,240
as a as a control group do you have any

133
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,080
examples of good or bad experiences

134
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,360
you've had at the table so i guess a way

135
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,120
to put that is

136
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,800
a couple of examples of where you've hit

137
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,320
that target and you've reached your

138
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,240
balance of three pillars or maybe an

139
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,280
example where that hasn't quite been the

140
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,160
case

141
00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:10,560
yeah absolutely so as i mentioned if i

142
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,000
kind of compare um and probably have a

143
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,960
real

144
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:17,280
a real spectrum of two extremes of of

145
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,360
you know probably playing dnd

146
00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:20,800
nyon 30 years ago

147
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:24,720
where

148
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:27,360
a lot of the game was very much you know

149
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:29,440
um you know very emphasized dungeon crew

150
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,840
yeah very much dungeon crawl you know

151
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,160
almost like the game was

152
00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:36,000
like you know hero quest or maybe

153
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,639
bloomhaven today you know very very

154
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,320
mechanical um and very about the rules

155
00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:42,400
and and almost

156
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,919
almost playing to win but maybe like a

157
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,000
board game or a

158
00:05:43,919 --> 00:05:47,840
games workshop title that i also used to

159
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,240
play a lot of the time

160
00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:52,400
it was uh adversarial a bit more than it

161
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,320
is now would you say absolutely um on

162
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,319
almost you know that you were trying to

163
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,560
beat the dungeon master and the dungeon

164
00:05:56,319 --> 00:06:01,120
master was almost trying to create

165
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,759
challenges and hurdles for the party to

166
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:07,360
get over not necessarily for fun but

167
00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:09,520
almost just to say you know it's a test

168
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,680
which was just the kind of way we

169
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,199
approached it back when

170
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,960
we were a lot younger and really

171
00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:17,600
probably some of the

172
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,440
the role play aspects and the

173
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,720
exploration aspects the other two sort

174
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:24,000
of key pillars

175
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,600
were quite incidental um i think

176
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,080
probably only when we maybe started to

177
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:31,280
play some pre-mades then maybe some more

178
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:33,520
of that got forced into the gameplay

179
00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:34,880
um because somebody

180
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,880
you know far cleverer than us has

181
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,960
actually thought you know of creating

182
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,880
that sort of balance

183
00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,000
so we're not about dming a bit later on

184
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,680
and there's a point i want to look back

185
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,199
to when we get there

186
00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,680
sure so

187
00:06:45,199 --> 00:06:49,360
my experience of

188
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,039
playing and i think

189
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,319
one way to get a better experience for

190
00:06:51,039 --> 00:06:55,039
everyone at the table and it's been

191
00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:57,840
mentioned in every previous episode is

192
00:06:55,039 --> 00:06:59,840
this concept of session zero as we say

193
00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:02,479
and i won't go through why my mom

194
00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:04,080
perhaps wasn't the best but i think

195
00:07:02,479 --> 00:07:06,080
one of the best things to do to ensure

196
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,319
that everyone has the best experience is

197
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,639
alignment between players and dms

198
00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:12,720
and that just only ever gets more and

199
00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:15,919
more clear to me

200
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:18,960
you can take steps to bend that

201
00:07:15,919 --> 00:07:21,280
alignment closer together mid play but

202
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,880
just as it is with everything in life

203
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,880
once you've set though it was in motion

204
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,720
it's always harder to bring things back

205
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,720
on track than it is to start

206
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:31,120
on the same track

207
00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,199
um and of course you run the risk of

208
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:36,000
snapping that alignment and

209
00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:39,599
potentially losing a player

210
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:43,280
myself so i've pretty much been

211
00:07:39,599 --> 00:07:45,360
dming consistently for four years

212
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,319
never once a pre-made

213
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,400
probably

214
00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:50,560
foolishly i have to say

215
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,160
but uh it's always been some form of

216
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,039
homebrew and i'm just dipping in and out

217
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:58,879
of playing during that time

218
00:07:55,039 --> 00:08:00,479
and for me i would say that

219
00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:03,360
if i took everything from a high level a

220
00:08:00,479 --> 00:08:05,280
holistic view dm'ing would probably be

221
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,560
ever so slightly more fun than than

222
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,000
playing

223
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,560
but the weird thing is i probably

224
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,680
couldn't tell you why other than i keep

225
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,599
doing it so it i must enjoy it

226
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,759
otherwise i'd be mad it's a good point i

227
00:08:15,599 --> 00:08:19,919
think in some ways and again probably

228
00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:22,160
going back to that experience

229
00:08:19,919 --> 00:08:23,440
where i used to dm um a lot more uh you

230
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,000
know having come back to it more

231
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,039
recently i haven't sat in the dm chairs

232
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,560
so much

233
00:08:27,039 --> 00:08:30,479
except maybe a

234
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,840
couple of shorter games with my

235
00:08:30,479 --> 00:08:34,080
my much younger daughter which was a

236
00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,200
whole different kind of experience i

237
00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,760
think for me

238
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,760
dming was almost like a

239
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,919
you know he almost didn't want to do it

240
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,919
in in some ways it was kind of like you

241
00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:45,760
you all knew you had to take turns at it

242
00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:46,800
because you know someone had to do it

243
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,560
when we were

244
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,880
in those early games

245
00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:52,640
maybe just nobody had that god complex

246
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,440
stanley um

247
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,440
uh i i can't say but for sure did make

248
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,440
things difficult because it way you

249
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,760
don't have that stable

250
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,360
dm that obviously also makes a big

251
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,880
difference to a campaign so you know

252
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,040
we'd almost end up

253
00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:09,360
cycling the same characters

254
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,600
where the dm would also have a

255
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,200
character but not in that game

256
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,360
um and then you'd almost kind of round

257
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,120
rob in the dm with obviously one player

258
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,880
dropping out and swapping to the dm

259
00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,800
which kind of

260
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,640
you know if i can't trust that with

261
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,480
you know take an example of the campaign

262
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,880
that i'm currently at the table at

263
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,040
playing uh with yourself and

264
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,160
you know a larger um yeah much more

265
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,839
mature group

266
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,760
i think that

267
00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:35,440
a having that almost like a

268
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,360
a steady dm

269
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,240
makes a huge difference because you know

270
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,000
that this character that you've built

271
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,000
you're going to continue to develop that

272
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,839
one single relationship

273
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,120
um and the character development with

274
00:09:45,839 --> 00:09:49,200
the dm

275
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,200
rather than trying to make that correct

276
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,440
portable where you could lift them up

277
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,279
and pick them between campaigns where

278
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,160
you know stuff like backstory and stuff

279
00:09:55,279 --> 00:10:00,160
is very difficult to get across

280
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,640
oh yeah that's that's really really

281
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,959
interesting because i've never

282
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,880
i've never had that experience the

283
00:10:04,959 --> 00:10:08,880
closest it gets for me is basically

284
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,560
making something for a one shot where a

285
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,800
lot less

286
00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:14,720
time is spent on the backstory because

287
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,920
it doesn't really

288
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,320
matter

289
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,440
the dm hasn't got time to build up this

290
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,640
whole world that includes all your

291
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,480
backstories and whatnot so i guess

292
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,320
that's as close as you're gonna get

293
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,600
but even that one shot still seems like

294
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,440
a completely different experience to

295
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,800
what you're describing back in the older

296
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,320
editions

297
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,600
so you mentioned earlier on about how

298
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,680
the dm

299
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:37,120
a that it was

300
00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:38,880
kind of a less preferred role which is

301
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,480
bizarre but

302
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,240
i think you even nowadays people are

303
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,160
always sometimes struggling to find dms

304
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,600
i think that's always going to be

305
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,959
because the numbers work that way six

306
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,000
players to one dm there's always going

307
00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:49,600
to be a

308
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,600
more players than there are dms so

309
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,040
you're always gonna have that

310
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,839
trouble

311
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,000
but

312
00:10:53,839 --> 00:10:57,040
you mentioned there that their job or at

313
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,440
least

314
00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,279
for your games their role was to put

315
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,680
hurdles in front of the players and to

316
00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:05,120
challenge the players and to beat the

317
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:07,200
players more and it might not have been

318
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,640
quite that black and white but i imagine

319
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,040
very much so it's more

320
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,440
in that direction

321
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,120
more so than it is now oh absolutely i

322
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,480
think the experience of playing like

323
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,600
that was almost

324
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,959
you were

325
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:24,320
almost playing to win which is you know

326
00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:25,440
the polar opposite um really of um you

327
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,240
know how

328
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:30,320
i certainly aim to play now um and and

329
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:33,519
how i think if i'm truthful

330
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:36,480
my view is how dnd is best played um is

331
00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:37,839
is played for fun um and actually i

332
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,880
suppose just like

333
00:11:37,839 --> 00:11:40,640
life

334
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,040
not to get too profound you know

335
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,800
inevitably failures happen along the way

336
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,440
especially with a cruel mistress of a

337
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,240
d20 to deal with um

338
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,079
and

339
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,240
you know those failures

340
00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:54,959
enrich the campaign and create talking

341
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:57,040
points and and fun whereas if i contrast

342
00:11:54,959 --> 00:11:59,360
that with that sort of

343
00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:02,079
kind of toxic kind of play-to-win style

344
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:04,000
um yeah then absolutely you know i

345
00:12:02,079 --> 00:12:05,839
remember and obviously partly

346
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,839
emotional maturity factors into it as

347
00:12:05,839 --> 00:12:10,240
well but i remember you know

348
00:12:07,839 --> 00:12:11,279
there were times when when we had tpks

349
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,720
and

350
00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:14,399
the players were

351
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,920
emotionally crushed

352
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:17,279
you know it's like that

353
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,880
they'd lost

354
00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:22,880
a dear friend in a character um and also

355
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,720
they'd been beaten

356
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,720
and so

357
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,399
that then breeds probably

358
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,279
the worst part of

359
00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:34,800
that that whole experience of playing

360
00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:36,800
that way um when i was younger which was

361
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,760
inevitably where you're trying to play

362
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,639
to win

363
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,480
the rules almost become your tool

364
00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:44,800
yeah whereas yeah whereas almost the

365
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,839
rules when we talk about more recent

366
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,600
campaigns

367
00:12:45,839 --> 00:12:49,839
are almost

368
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,079
a mechanism to keep order between the

369
00:12:49,839 --> 00:12:54,240
players to enable play basically

370
00:12:52,079 --> 00:12:56,880
absolutely um and give an opportunity

371
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,959
for people to try stuff and and assign

372
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,519
ultimately some kind of probability to

373
00:12:58,959 --> 00:13:03,040
how likely it is they they may succeed

374
00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:05,600
um and

375
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:08,000
characters dying is pretty much a game

376
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:10,959
over screen as little as you can get so

377
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,120
you you've lost in that sense

378
00:13:10,959 --> 00:13:15,600
so i can i can imagine that breeds the

379
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,880
animosity between players and dms if

380
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,519
you're trying to win

381
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,440
you haven't got to that case okay well

382
00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:22,639
then i've lost a go i'm not having fun

383
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,399
anymore

384
00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:26,560
yeah i mean absolutely the the rules

385
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:28,079
lauren that stems from that is just

386
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:30,320
insane um

387
00:13:28,079 --> 00:13:31,440
yeah you know and and kind of if i you

388
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,079
know again

389
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,440
to try and contrast the two um and

390
00:13:34,079 --> 00:13:38,160
perhaps have the benefit to be able to

391
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:40,480
do that i remember the times where one

392
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,199
character in our group had a uh a vorpal

393
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:45,279
sword uh which you know you know was

394
00:13:43,199 --> 00:13:47,440
kind of like you know an instant

395
00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:49,680
decapitation but of course yeah the

396
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,760
rules are super ambiguous you know if

397
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:53,760
it's got a head and can be decapitated

398
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,680
so like does that mean i can chop a

399
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:58,079
dragon set off is that okay

400
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:59,839
yeah but now where is if i was to

401
00:13:58,079 --> 00:14:01,680
confront that situation on either side

402
00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:03,199
of the screen today

403
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,880
then i'd kind of work with the player

404
00:14:03,199 --> 00:14:06,320
and say well okay

405
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,920
maybe i was foolishly a give you that

406
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,800
weapon in the first place

407
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,000
um well even then um you know you'd work

408
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,600
with them to

409
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,360
work out a scope that's going to work

410
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,480
for the campaign and be fun for

411
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,240
everybody

412
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,040
rather than just say

413
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,279
oh cool don't worry adult dragon um oh

414
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,279
look i got like your eyes dead yeah

415
00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:26,720
yeah yeah so and and then of course

416
00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:28,399
there was all sorts of ambiguity in

417
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,440
between you know did this creature have

418
00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:31,360
a heads

419
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,160
is that something that could be severed

420
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,560
so

421
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:37,680
and that is i can only say that the

422
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,440
absolute tip of the iceberg um you know

423
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,600
there was all sorts of crazy debates and

424
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:44,240
and sometimes games would break down

425
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,519
for hours now the one positive part of

426
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,839
playing when you're on younger is

427
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:50,639
obviously you know disposable time is

428
00:14:47,839 --> 00:14:52,079
absolutely at a premium um so you know

429
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:54,160
to engage in a

430
00:14:52,079 --> 00:14:57,120
three-hour debate doesn't feel

431
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,600
um you know uh quite the same way i've

432
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,000
wasted wasted your evening exactly

433
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,680
whereas now even a 10-minute

434
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,560
tangent debating rules or something

435
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,720
would would actually probably feel to me

436
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,360
like i've done the table of disservice

437
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:14,320
um and you know literally as the second

438
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,680
stick by i'd be crying inside

439
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,399
um

440
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,880
yeah for sure that that is difficult

441
00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:23,680
from a dm's perspective because

442
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,000
you've got a lot of things to manage

443
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,399
moment to moment you have you know

444
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,560
patience you have the just the the time

445
00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:32,160
limit of the session you've got

446
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,639
i need to finish this at a time that

447
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,240
isn't too late but at a time that

448
00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:37,920
is fulfilling and not just in the middle

449
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,759
of a campfire and everyone's sitting

450
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,399
down well trying to go to bed everyone

451
00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:44,240
stop playing because that sucks but

452
00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:45,839
it's not only that kind of stuff but

453
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,600
also

454
00:15:45,839 --> 00:15:50,000
the individual player experience that

455
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,160
they're having at that very moment

456
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,519
and from what side of the screen you're

457
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,440
sitting on makes

458
00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:57,759
a huge difference to how you're

459
00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,959
perceiving that because one player's

460
00:15:57,759 --> 00:16:03,519
light bulb moment is the dms

461
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:05,120
oh my god my stomach has sunk how do i

462
00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:07,040
deal with this moment and it's such a

463
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,920
shift like that

464
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,959
instant experience is can be hugely

465
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,839
different

466
00:16:10,959 --> 00:16:16,079
from ah ahmad i'm colombo and i've

467
00:16:13,839 --> 00:16:17,920
worked everything out in an instant and

468
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:19,600
the dm just has to kind of poker face it

469
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,360
with beads of sweat just slowly dripping

470
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,759
down their face like yeah

471
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,199
that hasn't completely left us with four

472
00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:27,839
hours of

473
00:16:25,199 --> 00:16:30,079
void for me to fill

474
00:16:27,839 --> 00:16:31,600
even on that moment to moment it's it's

475
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:33,040
a really quite an interesting thought

476
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,800
piece there about

477
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,920
how the game is played of course i think

478
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,920
that's you know one of the reasons that

479
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,880
dm's are dms is because those instances

480
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,360
are

481
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,880
can be depending on the type of dm

482
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,160
the fun thing the bit where you have to

483
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,240
go hang on

484
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,920
okay well here's

485
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,440
something i've just pulled out my ass

486
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,040
that ends up being one of the best

487
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,600
sessions we've ever had and i hear that

488
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,040
quite a lot in the dm circles of people

489
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,519
saying

490
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,240
all these npcs the knights of the realm

491
00:16:57,519 --> 00:16:59,759
and

492
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,600
nine nights the round table each with

493
00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:03,040
their families and their stories and

494
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,400
their cousins and their nephews and

495
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,000
they've got names and they've all got

496
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,240
backstories and we've got desires and

497
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,720
needs players don't give two monkeys

498
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:13,600
about those but billy bob the lettuce

499
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,439
grosser down the road oh my god

500
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,880
how much money do you need to send your

501
00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:18,959
son to school cause we'll get you that

502
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,839
money and the dm's just like man he is

503
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:21,360
just

504
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,760
he was just there

505
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:25,360
he's just a happenstance absolutely and

506
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,760
i think i suppose a bit like we talked

507
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:30,080
about the variety of actually crafting a

508
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,080
a campaign and creating fun and

509
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:35,200
certainly me as a player looking for a

510
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:37,200
variety i think probably most dms

511
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,840
probably look for for the blend of the

512
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,200
two i think you know if you're

513
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,000
if you're going too far in either

514
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,919
direction then it's going to be tough uh

515
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,880
you know to improv the whole way through

516
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:50,400
is going to probably impact the overall

517
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,440
player experience there's no two ways

518
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,440
about it

519
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,400
likewise trying to plan everything out

520
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:58,160
um you know like a crazy neurotic dm is

521
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,840
is is also going to

522
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,400
make the experience pretty crap for the

523
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,000
dm because you know it's a cliche but

524
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,200
it's the best blade plants of mice and

525
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:10,240
men or the m's frankly are about to get

526
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,919
stumped on by the barbarian that decides

527
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,720
that actually

528
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:16,320
yeah this tribe of orcs nearby is way

529
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,400
more interesting than

530
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,640
you know that that may be the main goal

531
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,200
that the party was working towards

532
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:26,000
um you know and then yeah just just

533
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,480
reigns all over your parade

534
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,320
so early when you're saying that the dm

535
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,760
of the older editions again is this

536
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,919
adversarial

537
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:37,679
role and i was thinking that's

538
00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:39,520
that's probably harder than it is now

539
00:18:37,679 --> 00:18:40,880
to be a dm and that's probably one of

540
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,760
the reasons why people are less inclined

541
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,520
to do it and i mean that because

542
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,840
it's a piece of cake to kill the players

543
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,520
but it's easy easy peasy you want to if

544
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,360
you really wanted them to lose you could

545
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,760
do it in a blink of an eye

546
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:55,679
piece of cake trap does 60 damage all

547
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,640
pleasant dead cool i win ha ha everyone

548
00:18:55,679 --> 00:18:58,000
had fun

549
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,520
so

550
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,799
trying to balance that while still

551
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,720
trying to win

552
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:04,480
would have been even more hard than it

553
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,640
is now and it's already incredibly

554
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,039
difficult to walk that fine line of

555
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,960
balance so i can only imagine of how

556
00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:12,559
frustrating it would have been to have

557
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,320
wanted to throw

558
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:15,760
creatures at the end of the player

559
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,679
characters because

560
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,400
you want to give them a hurdle to

561
00:19:17,679 --> 00:19:21,360
overcome but then the same breath be

562
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,400
like no

563
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,840
because

564
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,840
i shouldn't because then we won't have a

565
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,120
game to play absolutely and and to be

566
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,240
fair i mean i i don't think that's

567
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,840
necessarily a product of the older

568
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,080
edition but maybe more to do with the

569
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,320
maturity of the players playing

570
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,240
the game and and also maybe

571
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,840
experience that we've had elsewhere yeah

572
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,919
i'd say playing things like you know

573
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,559
games like hair requests and stuff where

574
00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:45,280
maybe we we started out you know

575
00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:47,200
inevitably um you know impacted kind of

576
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,520
the way that maybe

577
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,880
an 11 or 12 year old is able to deal

578
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,760
with the fact that

579
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:56,000
i've not read 50 books and and also

580
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,520
maybe haven't had the experience of

581
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,280
playing with

582
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,720
or a lot of experience seeing other

583
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,480
groups play so i mean one of the great

584
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,559
things these days is you know there's

585
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,440
lots of really great examples you know

586
00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:08,000
of

587
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,080
campaigns that are played online that

588
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,240
even if you'd never picked up a pen and

589
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,840
a dice before you could watch some of

590
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,360
those and hopefully pick up more good

591
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,080
habits and

592
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:20,080
style of play than the way we went about

593
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,400
it so i think probably i wouldn't say it

594
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:26,080
was a unique experience um and i think

595
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:27,919
very much playing in the young age um

596
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,480
inevitably creates

597
00:20:27,919 --> 00:20:33,440
that in fact uh i read there uh a book

598
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,600
with a fun title of a the elfish gene

599
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,760
and by a guy called mark herrocliffe

600
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,000
and i mean he he

601
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:43,039
i have to say i could relate to that

602
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,919
book a lot because i'm very much he like

603
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:48,799
me played the indeed back in probably

604
00:20:45,919 --> 00:20:51,200
the 80s um you know when when he too you

605
00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:52,880
know probably similar age to myself

606
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,200
had kind of yeah was playing with you

607
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,760
know teenagers and people people still

608
00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,240
at school and that talked about crazy

609
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,159
crazy arguments you know and the thing

610
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,480
is particularly that ages as those

611
00:21:02,159 --> 00:21:06,240
arguments would spill over from d and d

612
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,720
um and create ultimately create a

613
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,440
terrible experience and vice versa so

614
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,280
like

615
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,760
the separation between the player and

616
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,840
character was non-existent in as much as

617
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,679
you know if there was some kind of

618
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,799
stupid issue that a 12 year old kid

619
00:21:17,679 --> 00:21:20,880
would have

620
00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:22,880
out of game then maybe that would come

621
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,760
in game so you'd you'd be dumb to play

622
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,760
with that

623
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,840
that kid you know if you if you just

624
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,640
pissed them off um

625
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,720
so i think that that was crazy and

626
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,919
really um if i was to draw a line under

627
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,600
all of that

628
00:21:33,919 --> 00:21:37,840
please

629
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,080
learn from my mistakes never played dnd

630
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,520
like that having said that even then

631
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,000
there were a lot of memorable

632
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,320
experiences so for all of that terrible

633
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,200
you know crazy you know rules lawyering

634
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,880
and

635
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,000
devouring rule books yeah i remember

636
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,080
like you know flicking through the

637
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,720
monster manual and like the more i knew

638
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,559
about the monsters mechanics but the

639
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,880
better it was that the standard chance

640
00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:00,799
of winning so it's just insane oh god

641
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,280
yeah that's that winds me up the wrong

642
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:05,360
way completely as a dm nowadays yeah

643
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,240
absolutely and and and whilst in some

644
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:07,600
ways

645
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,159
i'm really enjoying the fact that

646
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,400
obviously um free editions on

647
00:22:10,159 --> 00:22:14,799
where where a lot has changed and whilst

648
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,720
broadly yes as a player you have the

649
00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:18,720
experience of counseling okay i i used

650
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,799
to know a heck a lot in a previous

651
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,640
edition you know i've really not gone

652
00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:24,799
back and almost one of the reasons i

653
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,520
haven't done much dm and been reluctant

654
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:27,360
to

655
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,640
is almost the more dm'ing you do the

656
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:31,120
more you have to

657
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:34,480
lift the lid on those mechanics

658
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:37,200
and almost in a way the more it may

659
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,280
make it harder to be a a natural player

660
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:42,159
um you know of course you can

661
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:44,559
rp around that um but in some ways it's

662
00:22:42,159 --> 00:22:46,000
it's quite nice to have a blurry blurry

663
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:48,320
line

664
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,720
along with the player but i think when i

665
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:54,000
talked a moment ago about some of the

666
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:56,400
crazy wild experiences that that weird

667
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,720
style of play would have um and i mean

668
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,720
like literally to the point where

669
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,240
probably in my my mid teams a lot of

670
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,159
those characters had

671
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,679
grown up if you like and and were kind

672
00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:09,039
of you know fairly high level characters

673
00:23:05,679 --> 00:23:09,039
the ones that managed to not

674
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,679
and literally some of those these that

675
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,000
bad blood and those arguments ultimately

676
00:23:13,679 --> 00:23:19,120
spilled into like literally creating

677
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,440
you know warfare you know in our dnd i

678
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:24,720
mean i want to say campaign but i mean

679
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:27,760
yeah very loosely um where

680
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,679
again the the m came a pretty

681
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,679
awkward concept because again it was

682
00:23:29,679 --> 00:23:34,159
that round robin thing but you know

683
00:23:31,679 --> 00:23:35,760
where you know sort of our characters

684
00:23:34,159 --> 00:23:37,840
attracted followers and this kind of

685
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,760
stuff i mean you know we literally

686
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,679
i remember like you know probably over a

687
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,760
summer holiday or something where

688
00:23:41,679 --> 00:23:46,240
uh the players were diametrically

689
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:49,520
opposed between two of them particularly

690
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,360
and you know i think that uh one one of

691
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,480
the players come to my own player

692
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:55,919
character's

693
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,039
um sort of stronghold at the again uh

694
00:23:55,919 --> 00:23:59,039
right then you got when you're a high

695
00:23:57,039 --> 00:24:00,400
level character um

696
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:02,400
and you know he was kind of harboring

697
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,880
this character which kind of kicked off

698
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,200
this whole sequence of warfare where

699
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,200
like you know wizard disintegrated like

700
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,640
a massive chunk of the battlements and

701
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,840
all this kind of stuff

702
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,840
so it was it was wild and as a as an

703
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,200
experience i look back on it absolutely

704
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,480
super fondly

705
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,600
um

706
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,080
but

707
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,080
at the same time like trying to dm that

708
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,440
now even with all the experience and

709
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,240
skills that have

710
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,520
uh

711
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,840
would be

712
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,360
an insane way to try and do it but you

713
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,279
know pvp is just

714
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,880
it's it's not it's not even a

715
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:36,960
it's not even a thing in dnd shouldn't

716
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,360
be a thing um

717
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,120
and you know so to kind of

718
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:42,320
try and play that out where

719
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:46,080
one character

720
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:48,960
is just some level 18 character um you

721
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,240
know he's able to burst out probably 200

722
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,400
damage or something with a pair of

723
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,520
uncles this was just

724
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,200
insane

725
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,240
so

726
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,559
i suppose

727
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,360
good experiences bad experiences from a

728
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:03,360
very very specific style of play

729
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,880
and definitely you know the takeaway

730
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:09,720
from that would be

731
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,720
please just don't do it

732
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:16,960
[Music]

733
00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:23,360
[Music]

734
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,200
so

735
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,880
i wanted to talk about that briefly you

736
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,360
mentioned about how

737
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:32,240
the more you dm the more you

738
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:34,000
go inside the toolbox which

739
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,120
can make it more difficult when you

740
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:40,080
return to being a player to

741
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:42,000
divorce yourself from

742
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,679
the character and the world and you know

743
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,279
that

744
00:25:43,679 --> 00:25:48,640
this guard you might be fighting has

745
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:50,000
ac-12 and cam parry so i need to bear

746
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,240
that in mind that he hasn't used his

747
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,200
reaction yet that kind of stuff

748
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,960
i'd like to add to that that

749
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,200
yes there is

750
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,080
that element to it and if you imagine a

751
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,440
graph where you've got dm experience

752
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,279
versus

753
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,520
ability to

754
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:09,360
role play

755
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,600
at some points dm experience will go

756
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:13,360
over the top of that and

757
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,440
it'll make it harder to role play

758
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:17,440
because you have that

759
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,919
background knowledge

760
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,760
but i do think the more you dm

761
00:26:19,919 --> 00:26:23,279
you're kind of

762
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,000
capturing

763
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:27,760
the role play experience of however many

764
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,600
people you have at your table so

765
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,600
although it's not a one-to-one

766
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,520
it's like an xp share for a pokemon

767
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,200
reference that you're kind of getting a

768
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,039
diminished amount but from four or five

769
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,799
people you you pick up things you say

770
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:41,360
that was he approached that in a good

771
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:42,720
way he he talked like that in a good way

772
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,960
let me try and

773
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,320
filter that in and

774
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,600
the other thing that diamond gives you

775
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,440
is a respect

776
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,960
for dms

777
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,960
so when you do eventually return to

778
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,000
sitting on the other side of the table

779
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,360
you go okay i might know this thing is a

780
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,880
black pudding and it's going to burn all

781
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:00,640
my armor but

782
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,559
my character doesn't and the dms spent

783
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,640
time to set this up so i'm not about to

784
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:06,480
undermine him at the table by

785
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,760
i spend 10 minutes taking my armor off

786
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,120
because i don't want it to get melted

787
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,200
because you go no that's that's not

788
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:14,159
that's not the game

789
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,240
so that i think dming shifts

790
00:27:14,159 --> 00:27:17,279
or increases your experience as you'd

791
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,520
imagine

792
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:20,640
eventually for the better there's a

793
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,320
little bit of a

794
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,159
of a growing pain in the middle where

795
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,760
absolutely you'll know more than you

796
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:27,200
should ever know as a player and it will

797
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,000
freak you out and you'll answer

798
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,200
questions that you shouldn't have

799
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,760
answered and you'll know what's coming

800
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,760
and you can't say no but then eventually

801
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,120
you do cross that gap and you do come

802
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,799
out the other side

803
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:39,279
with a more holistic view of the

804
00:27:36,799 --> 00:27:41,600
experience i i totally agree and and i

805
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:43,840
think i should say i think that

806
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,159
in a way it there's positive there in

807
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,320
terms of immersing yourself in in your

808
00:27:46,159 --> 00:27:50,799
character rather than what the player

809
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,000
knows and in some ways the more the more

810
00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:53,919
that the

811
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,320
the player knows you know about if you

812
00:27:53,919 --> 00:27:57,760
like the matter of the the game

813
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,840
the more incumbent it is on the

814
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,919
character and therefore the player

815
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:05,600
driving that character to almost um step

816
00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:07,919
into some of those potholes for the for

817
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,520
the benefit of the narrative yes um yeah

818
00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:11,360
for sure and i think that there's

819
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,880
probably been you know and something

820
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:14,960
particularly in the last few years you

821
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,480
know it has been you know something that

822
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,880
is a new experience and a learning

823
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,760
experience for me is absolutely similar

824
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,520
okay

825
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,159
i'm not playing to win anymore that's

826
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:27,039
not the style of gaming doing

827
00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:28,720
and actually there's a lot of rp value

828
00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:31,840
to be had by

829
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,520
as you say almost being able to see

830
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,000
a little bit behind the screen

831
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,000
semi-consciously yeah but also to see as

832
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,679
you say kind of understand

833
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,000
a little bit what's about going through

834
00:28:39,679 --> 00:28:43,360
that dm's mind yeah

835
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,120
you know what they're trying to achieve

836
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,120
yeah and you can help them to achieve

837
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,000
that goal which then brings the whole

838
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:52,799
game up absolutely and you almost become

839
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,039
a dm's helper at that point um where you

840
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,960
can kind of see what's what

841
00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:58,480
may be about to happen and and probably

842
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,880
we've had some

843
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,279
experiences between us in in that vein

844
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,799
in sort of the campaigns that we've both

845
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,120
been involved in where

846
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:10,640
particularly one of the groups that

847
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:13,520
we're in where i play uh the uh

848
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,600
the wonderfully tempered uh grisham act

849
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,440
you know it in terms of you know we have

850
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,600
a real mix of

851
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,440
player experience in that that group

852
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,640
ranging from

853
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,840
players that

854
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,640
literally started a session

855
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,360
having never ever played dnd and yeah

856
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:35,279
perhaps had some associated experience

857
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:37,279
from other similar sorts of games

858
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:38,000
so to obviously people like myself with

859
00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:40,399
a

860
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,000
a little bit of a weird

861
00:29:40,399 --> 00:29:43,039
sort of experience uh i wouldn't say

862
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,960
it's you know

863
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:47,760
i haven't been sitting here playing 5e

864
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,679
for the last 10 years as an adult um so

865
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,919
yeah there's definitely a learning

866
00:29:49,679 --> 00:29:54,159
experience for me there and i think

867
00:29:51,919 --> 00:29:55,919
particularly in the inside that kind of

868
00:29:54,159 --> 00:29:57,919
party is a

869
00:29:55,919 --> 00:30:00,480
i suppose coming to a as a player with

870
00:29:57,919 --> 00:30:02,880
more experience albeit not all

871
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,600
experience is good as as i've just

872
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,440
amply demonstrated um yeah

873
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,120
you know in some ways it's almost like

874
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,720
you know some playing two different

875
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,440
games for me

876
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,960
but i think probably the one negative of

877
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,799
coming to the table with more experience

878
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,320
where you have that contrast

879
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:20,000
is i think probably something i noticed

880
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,159
fairly early on is

881
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,919
um and you probably saw it from a bird's

882
00:30:22,159 --> 00:30:24,880
eye view far better than i said behind

883
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:26,720
the screen

884
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,720
as it it felt like some of the newer

885
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,799
players kind of

886
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,880
consciously or subconsciously took a

887
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:34,880
step back and deferred

888
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,559
very quickly um

889
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,120
to the player at the table with what

890
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:40,399
they perceive to be yeah experience

891
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,679
yeah they know what they're doing so

892
00:30:40,399 --> 00:30:43,760
i'll just let them do it because they'll

893
00:30:41,679 --> 00:30:46,000
do it right whereas i might do it wrong

894
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:49,120
which is a shame because there is no

895
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,880
wrong it's just it's just doing and i

896
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,600
think i i totally agree and i think

897
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,200
maybe there's um

898
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,919
you can nurture that in a lot of ways

899
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,840
and

900
00:30:55,919 --> 00:30:59,120
you know i think one is to work with

901
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,320
your

902
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,080
your party

903
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,360
out of game in-game

904
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,240
to try and help

905
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,799
overcome that to avoid that having a

906
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,640
detrimental impact on their game and and

907
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:13,840
reducing that the fun and the experience

908
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,519
for them because you know nobody

909
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,279
whether they they do it deliberately or

910
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:19,120
not deliberately nobody wants to sit

911
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:20,720
there and say i'm i'm i'm not going to

912
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,200
make a decision about what we're doing

913
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,960
because i'm just going to let the more

914
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,399
experienced guy because

915
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,200
you know they're not getting their time

916
00:31:26,399 --> 00:31:31,039
to shine so i think it's a

917
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,519
no matter how what level of experience

918
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:34,399
you have at the table yeah you know very

919
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:36,559
much

920
00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:37,840
a key facet of being a player

921
00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:40,080
is knowing

922
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,080
when not to play and and

923
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,760
and when you have to let other players

924
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,640
shine and that's

925
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,240
super super important with less

926
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,279
experienced players which are

927
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,360
potentially more more fragile

928
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:55,679
in that sort of sense where you know

929
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,919
it's very easy for them to defer so that

930
00:31:55,679 --> 00:32:00,080
that can be you know tough and it feels

931
00:31:57,919 --> 00:32:01,679
bad for both parties in that situation

932
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,600
where

933
00:32:01,679 --> 00:32:06,480
you almost end up being

934
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,640
the guy that does everything because

935
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,399
the party's almost urging you to

936
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,480
um yes

937
00:32:10,399 --> 00:32:15,279
but at the same time so i think one one

938
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,120
great way to to break that cycle

939
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:18,480
is to do dumb stuff

940
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,480
so yeah

941
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,240
and and having that awareness of the

942
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,679
game as we talked about and maybe a

943
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,799
better grip on the mechanics and that

944
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:26,799
sort of thing

945
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:27,600
also gives you that opportunity to say

946
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:29,279
well

947
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,240
okay maybe

948
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:32,480
maybe

949
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,080
not you know if not doing something

950
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,360
isn't an option and nobody really wants

951
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,600
to step forward

952
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,039
then then maybe i'm

953
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,880
i have an opportunity to show the

954
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:42,640
players like

955
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,039
they could so do this better and their

956
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,880
idea was way better than

957
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:47,919
than the guy that they're trying to push

958
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,159
into

959
00:32:47,919 --> 00:32:50,159
um

960
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,720
yeah and yeah

961
00:32:52,159 --> 00:32:56,480
krishnak is a bear people so

962
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,519
he's not a particularly charismatic

963
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,600
character

964
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:01,519
so it's it's fair to say that being

965
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,120
pushed into an interaction

966
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:05,760
is probably not a strong suit now it's

967
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,120
fun to play out for me as a player

968
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,480
to kind of

969
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,799
explore that

970
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:14,320
but absolutely sometimes

971
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:14,320
as a player i'll be deliberately

972
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:19,440
making a mess of things not just not

973
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:21,840
just because of dice rolls um yeah

974
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:24,799
making making deliberately poor

975
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,559
decisions to try and

976
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:28,399
break that cycle a little bit of you

977
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:29,679
know thinking oh well

978
00:33:28,399 --> 00:33:30,880
you've got all the answers you do it and

979
00:33:29,679 --> 00:33:32,720
the reality is

980
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,960
hell i don't have all the answers i'm

981
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:38,960
just saying

982
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:41,279
i have all the answers that's

983
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,559
so i'm talking of

984
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:44,720
player experience then and those with

985
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:46,080
lesser experience versus those with more

986
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,640
what do you think is the best way for

987
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:52,000
somebody to get more experience with d d

988
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,919
sure so i think um i mean obviously it's

989
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,760
as always it's great for

990
00:33:53,919 --> 00:33:58,240
for people to have some positive role

991
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,559
models and and obviously positive is

992
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,240
is a relative thing i mean hell the

993
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:04,159
whole point of dnd is you play how the

994
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,360
heck you want and as long as everybody

995
00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:07,440
at the table

996
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,440
is aligned on that

997
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,879
that boat and as you said about session

998
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,240
zero and trying to define those

999
00:34:10,879 --> 00:34:13,919
parameters

1000
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:15,440
then absolutely fill your boots if you

1001
00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:16,560
never want a piece of exploration in

1002
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,560
your game

1003
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,359
and you know you want every game to be a

1004
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,720
dungeon crawl then fill your boots that

1005
00:34:21,359 --> 00:34:26,000
if that's what everybody around the

1006
00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:28,240
table wants the only thing i would urge

1007
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,240
for people to think about there is

1008
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:32,079
i love food i love chocolate if i ate

1009
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:33,359
chocolate all the time and never any

1010
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:35,119
other type of food

1011
00:34:33,359 --> 00:34:36,879
i wouldn't like chocolate as much

1012
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:39,200
and so i kind of see

1013
00:34:36,879 --> 00:34:41,359
where whereas maybe i i might still have

1014
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,800
some bias towards i love the mechanics

1015
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:44,879
of combat that's great i played a lot of

1016
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,560
b and d that way if i did that all the

1017
00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:48,240
time it would become

1018
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,159
you know i'd become numb to it and it'll

1019
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:51,839
it'd be less fun so in a way you have to

1020
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:54,240
have the

1021
00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:56,480
contrast there so i think in terms of

1022
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:58,720
how how players can get better or new

1023
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,359
players can get better experience i

1024
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:02,960
think don't always look to the the morex

1025
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:05,200
people experience people around the

1026
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,440
table for a role model it's fair to say

1027
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,640
um because yeah yeah they pick up bad

1028
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,240
habits and

1029
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,599
you know do all sorts of stuff and

1030
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:13,839
particularly i think it's fair to say

1031
00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:15,520
that there's probably that kind of

1032
00:35:13,839 --> 00:35:17,520
middle ground of intermediate players

1033
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,000
which are potentially that

1034
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,000
the very worst of all worlds where

1035
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,119
they know enough about the game uh

1036
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,680
potentially

1037
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:28,720
to to be doing it very

1038
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,720
badly you know very very meta uh yeah

1039
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:32,160
and and all sorts of stuff like that you

1040
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:34,320
know wanting to

1041
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,680
call out active skill roles the whole

1042
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,839
time rather than

1043
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,040
explain what they're doing how many hp

1044
00:35:37,839 --> 00:35:41,200
have you got you know let me dig into

1045
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,400
the mechanics of the game um and all

1046
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,040
that type of stuff because they

1047
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,200
understand the mechanics but maybe the

1048
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,200
finesse if not learned on top of that is

1049
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,520
to say well actually

1050
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,320
all of that breaks down the fourth wall

1051
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,400
of

1052
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,599
uh what what b and d

1053
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,040
can be

1054
00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:59,040
that there's probably loads and loads of

1055
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,880
good examples of of great players great

1056
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,200
dms online

1057
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,520
but i think also

1058
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,000
as a new player you also have to find

1059
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,599
your own groove as a person and and as a

1060
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,440
player i don't think there's

1061
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:13,440
it's not a

1062
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,440
one one size fits

1063
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,960
everybody solution here there's lots of

1064
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,320
things that you can do

1065
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:23,119
and frankly probably if i was really to

1066
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,280
put a single point to it then really

1067
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:27,839
it's just about trying to put yourself

1068
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,680
in everybody else at the table's shoes

1069
00:36:27,839 --> 00:36:31,440
and and think about what you're doing

1070
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,280
and how it might affect everyone else

1071
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,280
and if the answer is i think that's

1072
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,960
going to make it more fun for everybody

1073
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,800
then probably you're on your way to

1074
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,880
being a better player

1075
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,440
yeah that's that's

1076
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,760
bang on um and echo is kind of what jack

1077
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,359
and i are talking about in inability to

1078
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,520
i think i've got one

1079
00:36:47,359 --> 00:36:52,000
good way to get experience in one bad

1080
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,520
way to get experience from my experience

1081
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,640
experience experience

1082
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,640
so

1083
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,440
as we kind of alluded to earlier on i do

1084
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:02,079
think that dming is

1085
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,520
a really good way and again at a certain

1086
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:06,400
point you'll get more value out of it

1087
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,560
than maybe at other times but even just

1088
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,240
a one shot just to see what it's like on

1089
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,800
the other side i think that's like

1090
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:14,640
opening pandora's box of

1091
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,320
wow what the hell is going on but also

1092
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,800
there's this little nugget in there of

1093
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,920
wow okay i've realized quite what's

1094
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,920
happening

1095
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,359
maybe that's me being slightly biased

1096
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,240
from a home brew point of view where

1097
00:37:25,359 --> 00:37:28,079
i've

1098
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:30,079
put up a bunch of these spinning plates

1099
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:32,560
and anytime a player can knock one down

1100
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:34,880
and there's no safety net for me there

1101
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,599
unlike in a published module where

1102
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,520
there's a lot of framework to catch you

1103
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:40,480
when things like that happen so maybe

1104
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,480
that's

1105
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,720
but just just from my own personal

1106
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,839
experience but i do think regardless

1107
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:48,160
dming

1108
00:37:45,839 --> 00:37:49,760
will give somebody an appreciation

1109
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,440
because you'll get asked questions you

1110
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,880
never ever ever get asked and you have

1111
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,880
to think about things in ways you've

1112
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,320
never ever thought about things before

1113
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,839
and then when you go back to the other

1114
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,359
side you can go okay i'm not going to

1115
00:37:57,839 --> 00:38:01,920
ask that question because i know when

1116
00:37:59,359 --> 00:38:03,680
somebody asked me it was pain in the ass

1117
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,119
and it didn't lead anywhere so now i

1118
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,280
know that's just

1119
00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:09,680
an avenue not to go down

1120
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,760
i was going to say one one point on the

1121
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,800
interplay between the two as you say i

1122
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,119
think

1123
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,920
this benefit to doing both like anything

1124
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:19,359
more rounded experience generally equals

1125
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,800
you better on both sides of the screen

1126
00:38:19,359 --> 00:38:22,800
in this case

1127
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,440
one one question i had perhaps for you

1128
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,000
as

1129
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,079
as my counterpart across the screen

1130
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,160
personally i tend to think it's great as

1131
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:32,320
i mentioned to have a mix of experience

1132
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,280
levels in the group i think it you know

1133
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,880
if you have

1134
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,680
a group that's been adventuring together

1135
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,760
for

1136
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,839
for five ten years and all the players

1137
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,440
are pretty experienced by this point

1138
00:38:39,839 --> 00:38:44,560
that creates one experience and all the

1139
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,920
players should be rounded and great

1140
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,520
but i think there are some benefits of

1141
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,040
having that mix but how do you feel

1142
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,680
about um

1143
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,440
the the disparity between perhaps a dm

1144
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,280
experience and player experience and

1145
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,200
what i mean by that is perhaps someone

1146
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,520
sitting behind the screen for

1147
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,480
the first time uh maybe or maybe a

1148
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,560
second time where maybe in their party

1149
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,359
conversely they've got obviously some a

1150
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,040
mixture of player um skills and

1151
00:39:07,359 --> 00:39:11,200
experience that's where you have a

1152
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,560
player that has a pile more experience

1153
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,640
but being the dm even um you know i

1154
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,000
guess that put some pressure on on on

1155
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,119
you behind the screen in that room in

1156
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,800
that regard

1157
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:22,480
so what's so what's the specific

1158
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,400
question in this instance then so what

1159
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,800
is it like to dm a really mixed group uh

1160
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,320
well no more more what what is the

1161
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,160
uh how do you feel about having

1162
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,560
disparity between the dm's own

1163
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,000
experience and perhaps the experience of

1164
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,000
the party so

1165
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,000
maybe you have a very inexperienced vm

1166
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,520
but a very experienced set of players

1167
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:43,520
for example right i see so i think that

1168
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,560
there is

1169
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,560
an

1170
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,560
level of responsibility and onus on the

1171
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,720
dm to

1172
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,599
not know every rule absolutely not know

1173
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:55,119
every rule because that's unfair but

1174
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:57,119
to have a broad enough knowledge to run

1175
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:59,200
the game successfully

1176
00:39:57,119 --> 00:40:01,839
one good thing about having experienced

1177
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:04,000
players is that

1178
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:05,599
they usually have a level of if they're

1179
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,680
good human beings they usually have a

1180
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:10,319
good level of trust and experience and

1181
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,920
know when to help you out or at least if

1182
00:40:10,319 --> 00:40:15,280
they've also dm before they know when

1183
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:17,119
the dm is legitimately struggling versus

1184
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,599
it's just scrabbling through their nose

1185
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:23,119
to find something specific so

1186
00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:26,240
in those instances it can work um we

1187
00:40:23,119 --> 00:40:27,680
played a game quite recently where

1188
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:29,760
the dm is

1189
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:32,800
both relatively experienced player and

1190
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,640
dm however his one of his younger

1191
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,040
brother had come in for a one shot it's

1192
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:40,160
a second game of all time

1193
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,200
and i i basically said ask me all the

1194
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,599
questions

1195
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,760
that you need to ask about the game

1196
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:47,359
because the dm is busy dming so just

1197
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,800
just turn to me and say what the hell

1198
00:40:47,359 --> 00:40:51,119
does this number mean or i want to do

1199
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,880
this can i do that and there's a level

1200
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:54,640
of trust there between myself and the dm

1201
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,079
he knows that i'm not going to be like

1202
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,160
yeah go and jump off that cliff because

1203
00:40:56,079 --> 00:41:00,000
that'd be a laugh because

1204
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,280
he knows that i'm not going to do that

1205
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,680
and it doesn't make sense and it's not

1206
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,200
fun and so on so on so

1207
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,720
i've not answered your question because

1208
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,319
i'm now talking about experience on both

1209
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:09,359
sides but

1210
00:41:08,319 --> 00:41:11,119
there was an element there of an

1211
00:41:09,359 --> 00:41:12,800
inexperienced player at the table if i

1212
00:41:11,119 --> 00:41:14,960
didn't have

1213
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:18,319
that if i was maybe a player with an

1214
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:21,920
inexperienced dm

1215
00:41:18,319 --> 00:41:23,839
it can be tough i have to say

1216
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,599
there's always in any walk of life in

1217
00:41:23,839 --> 00:41:28,160
anything you do even with driving

1218
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:29,440
backseat driving is is a concept that

1219
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,680
exists and there's always that in the

1220
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,599
back of my head of i

1221
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,880
i might not have done it that way but

1222
00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:36,240
that's point of the game is that

1223
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,359
everybody has their own

1224
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,040
take on it

1225
00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:40,160
whether yours is better or not i can't

1226
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,319
say

1227
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,839
now whether if if that maybe less

1228
00:41:42,319 --> 00:41:46,240
experienced dm has done something that's

1229
00:41:43,839 --> 00:41:48,400
led to something being not as fun or

1230
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:50,480
half an hour of faffing

1231
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,319
then the line is maybe slightly clearer

1232
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,960
as to which way it should have happened

1233
00:41:52,319 --> 00:41:56,800
but you learn by doing and the only way

1234
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,760
to get better is

1235
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,280
you know you don't want the player

1236
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,240
jumping in and go let's just do this

1237
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,200
because then

1238
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,359
you're not really playing the game

1239
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,680
anymore no one learns and

1240
00:42:03,359 --> 00:42:07,520
everybody's just kind of bummed out so

1241
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,000
it's it's difficult but as i said

1242
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,680
earlier on the more you play the more

1243
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,119
knowledge you have of being a dm and

1244
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,720
what it's like to be on that side of the

1245
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:16,800
screen the more you

1246
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:19,680
know where to push things where not to

1247
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:23,040
push things where things make sense why

1248
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,400
rules are the way they are why spells

1249
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,119
are the way they are

1250
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,400
they have very particular intent

1251
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:30,480
and you know why

1252
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,319
how things fit together which helps

1253
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,560
with everybody especially when you have

1254
00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:37,920
new players on both sides

1255
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:39,520
so if a dm is very inexperienced and

1256
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,920
they're playing with a bunch of

1257
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:44,400
experienced people

1258
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,160
i would say the onus then flips entirely

1259
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,599
to be on the players then to be like

1260
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,440
let's let's help the dm learn

1261
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:51,119
essentially in the same way that

1262
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,400
you you you play the game for a

1263
00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:54,640
different experience so i was thinking

1264
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,160
about it earlier on when you were saying

1265
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,760
part of the fun of being maybe an

1266
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,680
experienced dm with inexperienced

1267
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,839
players is the same kind of enjoyment

1268
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,480
and fulfillment that

1269
00:43:01,839 --> 00:43:06,560
teachers and educators do in that of

1270
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,680
uplifting people through this experience

1271
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,760
and watching them come out the other

1272
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,359
side of hey i know how this works now

1273
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,200
and now i'm having more fun whereas

1274
00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:15,119
before it was i'm scared and i'm alone

1275
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,240
and i don't know what it's going what's

1276
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:18,240
happening and then they come out the

1277
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:19,920
other side and go oh this is cool i can

1278
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,680
well i could maybe if i approach this

1279
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,280
thing from this direction and you go yes

1280
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,560
finally that's that's

1281
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,040
that's exactly what i wanted to hear

1282
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,640
that's great um that's like one way you

1283
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,640
can do it but then also likewise when

1284
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,800
you're playing with experienced players

1285
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,800
and everybody you you open up a bunch of

1286
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,839
new avenues of different kinds of

1287
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:42,720
enjoyment so you open up those kind of

1288
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:45,359
meaty heavy rp plot hooks those really

1289
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:47,599
friction encounters between

1290
00:43:45,359 --> 00:43:49,839
between players that might not be theirs

1291
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:51,520
everyone's too giddy with excitement

1292
00:43:49,839 --> 00:43:53,440
learning this wonderful new world which

1293
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,680
is two two sides of the same coin

1294
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,960
but from a dms perspective that's how

1295
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,560
you get enjoyment out of the two

1296
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,720
different kinds of experience i'd agree

1297
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,640
and and if i you know if i think back

1298
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:05,200
all the way back to the beginning

1299
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:09,119
a 10 year old probably me

1300
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:11,040
my mind was absolutely blown uh from

1301
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:12,079
that first game of dnd and it didn't

1302
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,720
take

1303
00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:17,440
much um you know i probably thought a

1304
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:20,400
kobold i picked picked a few items off

1305
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,640
the cobalt after i had defeated him and

1306
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,560
hey i was hooked and b

1307
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,200
you know for me

1308
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,640
at the risk of sounding you know too

1309
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,880
sentimental it was it was a

1310
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,280
life-changing experience that that first

1311
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,400
game of d and d to say like wow okay

1312
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,720
you've

1313
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,960
you you've i touched on

1314
00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:40,960
a little bit of fantasy in in my younger

1315
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,960
years you know maybe

1316
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,400
fighting fantasy books or something like

1317
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,960
that where uh you know maybe there's

1318
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,960
something relatable but first game where

1319
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,119
um you have my much older brother

1320
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:54,000
the ender that's literally a solo game

1321
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:55,599
for me um just so i can see what all the

1322
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,720
phosphors are around

1323
00:44:55,599 --> 00:45:00,240
um yeah yeah it absolutely blew my mind

1324
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,599
and i think that

1325
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:03,440
i think the other thing i'd say about

1326
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:06,079
player experience is

1327
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,079
there's no there's no negative here

1328
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:10,160
i think that new players bring a lot of

1329
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:12,240
energy and and excitement and and

1330
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,880
eagerness to to the table

1331
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:17,680
that it's harder even as a

1332
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,520
you know a great role-playing character

1333
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,920
it's just naturally harder for you to do

1334
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,760
as a as a human being um you know

1335
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,960
despite the experience being different

1336
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,760
every time and

1337
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,119
you know even even today after all the

1338
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,040
adventures and all the characters that

1339
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:33,040
i've played over the years yeah i still

1340
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,760
get the rush of excitement when i peel

1341
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,359
the

1342
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,440
peel the the shrink wrap off that new

1343
00:45:35,359 --> 00:45:39,599
character that i've just made and and

1344
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,960
plunger into into the universe for the

1345
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:42,400
first time

1346
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,440
so i think

1347
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,200
i say

1348
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,359
there's no thing as a

1349
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,800
bad level of experience but what i would

1350
00:45:47,359 --> 00:45:50,400
say is like anything in life it's

1351
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,079
incumbent on the people with more

1352
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,480
experience around the table

1353
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:57,760
um i say be at the end behind the screen

1354
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,440
or otherwise um to help everyone else

1355
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:03,040
have fun and not just

1356
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,040
use their own experience selfishly

1357
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,760
so one of the things i wanted to talk

1358
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,359
about earlier on about a good experience

1359
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,160
i've had

1360
00:46:09,359 --> 00:46:12,480
of

1361
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:15,599
not getting very good experience was

1362
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,560
basically playing a one shot at level

1363
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:19,040
20.

1364
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,880
which sounds great on paper you go wow

1365
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,800
this is my dreams have come true i can

1366
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,000
try weird and wacky stuff i've never

1367
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,880
tried before

1368
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,720
and

1369
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,640
it's going to be cool because i get to

1370
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:31,839
play with all these super cool

1371
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,880
abilities and features

1372
00:46:31,839 --> 00:46:35,359
but

1373
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:37,119
ultimately it was

1374
00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:39,760
less fulfilling

1375
00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:42,240
guides i would imagine by far compared

1376
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,760
to bringing a character up to that level

1377
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,520
slowly

1378
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,280
and why that is is because you've got

1379
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,319
four or five people all around the table

1380
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,480
who have

1381
00:46:48,319 --> 00:46:52,400
no no matter how good a player they are

1382
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,560
a likely

1383
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,400
zero experience in that particular race

1384
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,839
class combo because they're trying out

1385
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,880
this weird and wacky new thing they want

1386
00:46:57,839 --> 00:47:00,400
to try and i've never had the

1387
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,200
opportunity to do

1388
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,240
so

1389
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,760
i was playing a cleric at that time

1390
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:09,040
and you go

1391
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:11,760
hey holy hell this is complicated

1392
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:13,839
because level 20 games uh

1393
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,760
there was a there was a a distribution

1394
00:47:13,839 --> 00:47:17,040
graph i saw once that was

1395
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,440
uh levels of

1396
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:23,359
player characters in games of d and d

1397
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:26,000
and obviously it starts kind of middling

1398
00:47:23,359 --> 00:47:27,440
shoots up really high of percentage of

1399
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,240
games that are playing between character

1400
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:32,319
levels three to say seven was probably

1401
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:33,920
the top the peak of the bell curve and

1402
00:47:32,319 --> 00:47:38,400
then from seven

1403
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:40,880
down to basically 20 or 19 it went super

1404
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,640
low again we're talking single digits

1405
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,480
percentages of games

1406
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,760
and then right at level 20 it just

1407
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,760
spiked

1408
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,680
again and that's just because there's

1409
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,040
people do one shots at level 20 just to

1410
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,720
you know mess around

1411
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,000
otherwise that would be a much flatter

1412
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:56,079
curve as you'd have all the games in

1413
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,440
between bringing people to level 20. but

1414
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:59,119
i have to say

1415
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,319
again it depends what you're getting out

1416
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:02,720
from it

1417
00:48:00,319 --> 00:48:04,800
but in terms of learning and coming out

1418
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:07,359
the other side and being better none of

1419
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,000
that really happened because everyone

1420
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:11,760
was just you know combat was slow slower

1421
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,119
than it is normally because everyone had

1422
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,359
four pages of

1423
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:18,240
stuff they've never seen before okay

1424
00:48:15,359 --> 00:48:20,000
what the divine intervention what the

1425
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:22,480
hell oh no wait can that work oh no wait

1426
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,319
it automatically works hang on okay so

1427
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,000
can i do that to win the game i don't

1428
00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:28,000
know because i haven't built that

1429
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,240
experience with the dm

1430
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,720
uh if i do it and it goes well do i just

1431
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:35,119
shut the game down and that's just

1432
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:37,920
one feature of one class you might apply

1433
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:40,960
that out to four players with 40

1434
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,400
features each you can see how that

1435
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,520
at the other end i was just like whoa

1436
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,559
that was

1437
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,960
that was kind of a mess to be honest and

1438
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:50,800
you had combat that was

1439
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,720
difficult for a

1440
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,640
level 20 party

1441
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,240
but the players were not

1442
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,240
they didn't have that experience they

1443
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:59,480
didn't know their characters inside out

1444
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:02,240
which is

1445
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,839
implied a level of experience with a

1446
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:05,359
character

1447
00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:07,760
in the kind of challenge rating of

1448
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:09,200
making a piece of combat so yeah it was

1449
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,240
it was a holy how this this combat's

1450
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,359
hard and let me let me cast cure wounds

1451
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:14,960
and maybe

1452
00:49:13,359 --> 00:49:16,960
you know let me let me do healing word

1453
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:19,760
next turn oh wait that's

1454
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,920
20 hp in a barbarian that's got 250. was

1455
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,520
that worth my action at a level 25

1456
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,680
probably not

1457
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,119
but i don't know because i've never had

1458
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,119
to do it before

1459
00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:31,119
so and and that ultimately is the

1460
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:33,760
disparity between

1461
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:35,839
the experience the player has of their

1462
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,280
own character in that scenario

1463
00:49:35,839 --> 00:49:38,559
um and i think

1464
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,760
i mean i could see how that could be

1465
00:49:38,559 --> 00:49:41,359
massively

1466
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,880
complicated and

1467
00:49:41,359 --> 00:49:44,960
i think for me

1468
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:48,160
there's no allure to that that idea of

1469
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,839
send go go crack our level 20 character

1470
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,520
and and probably the main reason is

1471
00:49:49,839 --> 00:49:52,800
actually one of the

1472
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,920
the experience

1473
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,760
is i enjoy most about playing d

1474
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,400
i think is actually the anticipation and

1475
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,160
the

1476
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,079
the development of that character

1477
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,880
mechanically as well as well as both you

1478
00:50:02,079 --> 00:50:05,839
know in an rp sense but to anticipate

1479
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,599
what that

1480
00:50:05,839 --> 00:50:09,119
what you know what what cool stuff the

1481
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:11,280
next level might bring

1482
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:14,000
um yeah and then to go play that out to

1483
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:16,319
have all of those options thrown at you

1484
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,800
all at once at once um yeah i could

1485
00:50:16,319 --> 00:50:19,760
imagine both is confusing and you know

1486
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,920
creates

1487
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,000
unnecessary friction in the game

1488
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:26,000
to say well you know the dm doesn't have

1489
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,800
much experience dealing with these crazy

1490
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,200
abilities that players don't yeah um and

1491
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,200
great so that's a problem but yeah also

1492
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,240
you you're absolutely robbing yourself

1493
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,720
of

1494
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:39,119
the most fun part which is actually

1495
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:41,040
the growth of that character and

1496
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:43,440
you know figuring out

1497
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,440
not in one time but you know over over a

1498
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,760
long period of how that character is

1499
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:50,640
going to develop and i guarantee

1500
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,319
what you had in mind maybe for a build

1501
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,720
that you may have fought a little bit

1502
00:50:52,319 --> 00:50:57,839
ahead of at the start and how that might

1503
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:59,520
work out um it's not the way ultimately

1504
00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:01,119
it works out having played the character

1505
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,440
for a while particularly

1506
00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:06,319
you're less familiar

1507
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:09,200
yeah so i you know it was

1508
00:51:06,319 --> 00:51:13,280
it was fun in its own way uh and it was

1509
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:15,119
more of a thought exercise rather than a

1510
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,440
a genuine play

1511
00:51:15,119 --> 00:51:18,960
but i was just trying to say like don't

1512
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,640
for maybe less experienced people don't

1513
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,760
see that as an opportunity to learn

1514
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,599
because

1515
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,760
chances are you won't you'll just be

1516
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:28,640
scratching your head and then do

1517
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,400
a not very effective turn and then

1518
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,240
maybe come out the less the other side

1519
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,079
not as enthused

1520
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:34,880
about something you were looking forward

1521
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:37,280
to

1522
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,839
but the the the biggest

1523
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:42,240
uh exemplar of that less so now but in

1524
00:51:39,839 --> 00:51:44,240
in most mmos before they started

1525
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:46,720
enabling you to pay to level up

1526
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:48,240
you pay to skip the game so

1527
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,599
you're paying twice wants to have the

1528
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,040
game and then wants to not play the game

1529
00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:52,079
but anyway rent for a different day

1530
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,160
aside

1531
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:57,440
before they introduced that you know

1532
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,040
back in vanilla when wow came out

1533
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,200
it would it would have been absolutely

1534
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,160
bonkers if you'd have said

1535
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,280
do you want to roll a level one

1536
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,040
character do you want to roll the level

1537
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,160
60 character

1538
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,119
well everyone would have just gone level

1539
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,119
60 and it would have just been a

1540
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:10,480
complete mess

1541
00:52:09,119 --> 00:52:11,280
um

1542
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,800
so

1543
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,559
that's i think there's a reason why they

1544
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,079
didn't start with that not only because

1545
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:17,839
they hadn't thought man that's a good

1546
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:20,160
way to make money but also because they

1547
00:52:17,839 --> 00:52:21,440
want you they want people to guide them

1548
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,880
through the class so when people hit

1549
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,480
level 60

1550
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,480
they know

1551
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,760
fiber works like this and life drain

1552
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,319
works like that

1553
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,599
soul shards work like this

1554
00:52:30,319 --> 00:52:33,119
and i think the same

1555
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:34,400
can be said

1556
00:52:33,119 --> 00:52:35,359
to

1557
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,880
d

1558
00:52:35,359 --> 00:52:38,559
at the very least you'll have a

1559
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,760
completely different experience than

1560
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:40,720
perhaps the one

1561
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,839
you were

1562
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:43,920
expecting

1563
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:47,520
at level 20. yeah uh absolutely yeah

1564
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:50,319
level 20. yeah have you you touched it

1565
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:53,119
earlier i don't know if you've dm'd at

1566
00:52:50,319 --> 00:52:56,319
all recently or it with anything other

1567
00:52:53,119 --> 00:53:00,240
than that adversarial position before

1568
00:52:56,319 --> 00:53:01,200
uh sure so i think um i'd i say um one

1569
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:03,200
of the

1570
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,280
one of the very different dnd

1571
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,280
experiences i guess and as i said at the

1572
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,640
beginning it's it's always different and

1573
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,559
that's what keeps

1574
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,599
me coming back and and probably most of

1575
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:13,040
us

1576
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:15,200
you know at the end

1577
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,880
a few months ago for a small campaign

1578
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,800
that put together for

1579
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,160
my 11 year old daughter

1580
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,040
so maybe a little bit of history

1581
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:25,200
repeating there and then hopefully

1582
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:28,640
start starting the right way rather than

1583
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,640
maybe some of that stuff the

1584
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:34,880
yeah so so both for my uh girlfriend and

1585
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,720
my um daughter which was

1586
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,359
obviously a or

1587
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:40,720
an experience in itself in terms of the

1588
00:53:39,359 --> 00:53:42,480
relationship that you have with the

1589
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:44,160
players is different of course

1590
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,440
and that you know whether the

1591
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,599
relationship is

1592
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,599
you know family or you know close

1593
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:51,520
friends obviously also has a massive

1594
00:53:49,599 --> 00:53:53,200
bearing between that

1595
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,280
but the relationship between the party

1596
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,480
and what the experience may be like

1597
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,079
compared to

1598
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,599
obviously the the inverse of that of

1599
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:01,119
maybe playing with people that you've

1600
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:02,079
you've never even met maybe you just

1601
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:04,400
know

1602
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:07,119
one individual um yeah that's brought

1603
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,640
you to the table uh and that that

1604
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:11,119
again presents

1605
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,200
opportunity for fun experiences

1606
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:15,450
plenty of opportunities for

1607
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,040
not so great experiences as well

1608
00:54:15,450 --> 00:54:19,760
[Music]

1609
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:21,520
yeah okay so how did you find that

1610
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,800
differs then from being a player i know

1611
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,280
we're kind of trying to close the loop

1612
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,720
here between that how does a dm

1613
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,040
experience play in the game and how does

1614
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:30,400
a player experience playing the game i

1615
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,680
can say that

1616
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,640
it is

1617
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:37,599
hugely hugely different and i'm

1618
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:39,440
continually surprised by

1619
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:42,079
the perspective

1620
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,839
how that differs between players and dms

1621
00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:46,720
but what about yourself yeah absolutely

1622
00:54:43,839 --> 00:54:48,240
i think in a word responsibility is

1623
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:49,520
probably

1624
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:50,960
one of the biggest differences and

1625
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,119
whilst you know we said earlier that

1626
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:54,799
players have responsibility for

1627
00:54:53,119 --> 00:54:56,240
um you know making it fun for everybody

1628
00:54:54,799 --> 00:54:58,640
everybody has a

1629
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:01,119
that but i think there's probably

1630
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:03,920
the most pressure on the dm to

1631
00:55:01,119 --> 00:55:06,000
to not kind of mess up to a point where

1632
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,599
nobody's having fun um you know that's

1633
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,760
always your

1634
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:12,880
the worst case scenario for you as a dm

1635
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:15,200
i think um to think that you know you've

1636
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:17,040
you've put the players in a situation or

1637
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,880
you've aided about the players putting

1638
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,480
themselves in a situation

1639
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:23,040
um where they

1640
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:24,720
don't want to be don't enjoy

1641
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,720
you know they've ended up

1642
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:28,319
creating almost the wrong mix of the

1643
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:29,760
pillars for themselves

1644
00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:31,440
um yeah

1645
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:34,880
all of those i think are

1646
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:36,160
considerations as dm that simply you

1647
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:39,119
don't have

1648
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:40,640
your own burden from a player um largely

1649
00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:44,960
speaking so i think

1650
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:47,200
that is i think i think again that same

1651
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,240
responsibility of making sure that the

1652
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,280
combat plays out in a balanced way um

1653
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:52,960
and

1654
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,960
someone doesn't just

1655
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,400
get it get a few bad rolls and

1656
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,920
you know find some self in real hot

1657
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,880
water or worse

1658
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,559
so i think

1659
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:03,040
that you know probably the difference in

1660
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:04,319
the experience between the two for sure

1661
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,760
feels

1662
00:56:04,319 --> 00:56:07,440
a bit more like you're

1663
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,640
the game maker

1664
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,799
so inevitably there's more

1665
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,720
responsibility that comes with that and

1666
00:56:10,799 --> 00:56:15,119
i think there's a lot of

1667
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:16,799
payback for that when

1668
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:18,319
the inverse happens when things go well

1669
00:56:16,799 --> 00:56:20,079
you know so that those things you you

1670
00:56:18,319 --> 00:56:22,240
were worrying about

1671
00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:24,079
turn out to be great you know that the

1672
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:26,319
combat works out great and

1673
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:28,720
someone gets a moment to shine and and

1674
00:56:26,319 --> 00:56:29,599
defeats a particular monster or you know

1675
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:31,599
a

1676
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:33,040
or something similar um

1677
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:34,799
where it works out great

1678
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,240
and obviously as a dm i think that's

1679
00:56:34,799 --> 00:56:38,960
probably

1680
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:41,359
the fuel that would keep you going

1681
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:43,839
there's a gratification there for sure

1682
00:56:41,359 --> 00:56:44,480
um i'm i'm personally very looking

1683
00:56:43,839 --> 00:56:45,920
forward to

1684
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,480
[Music]

1685
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,520
a couple of longer burn longer longer

1686
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,240
term

1687
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:53,200
strands and threads that i've started to

1688
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:55,839
weave

1689
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,359
in and out of the narrative

1690
00:56:55,839 --> 00:56:59,119
because the longer it burns the

1691
00:56:57,359 --> 00:57:02,400
hopefully the bigger payoff there will

1692
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:04,480
be at the end to not only the the one or

1693
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:07,119
two or three however many players it

1694
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,640
affects but also the table experience as

1695
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:10,319
a whole

1696
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:13,440
from

1697
00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:15,680
my perspective like maybe this is again

1698
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,799
a unique to maybe more of a longer term

1699
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,119
campaign

1700
00:57:16,799 --> 00:57:22,720
but it's

1701
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:25,839
i'm consistently surprised by

1702
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,440
the viewpoint of players versus the dm

1703
00:57:25,839 --> 00:57:29,599
and i think this is something that every

1704
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:31,200
every dm has no matter the level of

1705
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:34,880
experience the players

1706
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,920
and it's just a symptom of human nature

1707
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,359
that everyone's different everyone

1708
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:41,119
experiences the different you know

1709
00:57:37,359 --> 00:57:42,799
stimuli differently and and so on that

1710
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:45,760
one thing that you might think was a

1711
00:57:42,799 --> 00:57:48,079
hilarious goof they think was

1712
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:51,200
a plot to assassinate the king

1713
00:57:48,079 --> 00:57:52,160
one thing that you thought was

1714
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,839
a bit

1715
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,760
a bit weird or a bit stupid they thought

1716
00:57:53,839 --> 00:57:57,920
was hilarious and it

1717
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,880
and you're both no one's wrong no one's

1718
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,880
right

1719
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,240
but it's such a weird

1720
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,040
dissonance

1721
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,160
there

1722
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:08,559
to to come and be like wow okay

1723
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:10,000
that was i never even begin to see it

1724
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:11,920
like that and i've seen the whole i've

1725
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,040
seen the end of the story essentially

1726
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,480
and it's

1727
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:17,839
it's such a

1728
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:20,000
bizarre almost out of body experience to

1729
00:58:17,839 --> 00:58:21,520
to have that that it continually

1730
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,280
surprises me to be like wow you guys

1731
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,160
really thought that

1732
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,920
when

1733
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,880
i spent three hours trying to make you

1734
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,319
think this how could i be so

1735
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:33,280
wildly wrong

1736
00:58:30,319 --> 00:58:35,920
here that but you're not wrong it's just

1737
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,839
that that that question to yourself is

1738
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,680
why i keep playing because it again it

1739
00:58:37,839 --> 00:58:41,280
just builds your

1740
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,119
it makes you think

1741
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,559
why do people think this way and how do

1742
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:46,079
people think this way and why are they

1743
00:58:44,559 --> 00:58:47,440
thinking this when i'm when i'm thinking

1744
00:58:46,079 --> 00:58:50,000
about it and i think it's a very good

1745
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:53,200
point and i think people and players

1746
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:55,280
pick up all sorts of things that as a dm

1747
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:58,160
you don't have to realize you're you're

1748
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:00,319
putting down um and and probably the one

1749
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,240
piece of experience that

1750
00:59:00,319 --> 00:59:03,520
we haven't so much talked about is how

1751
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,440
it can impact

1752
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,960
the game and ultimately the end

1753
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,200
experience for everyone

1754
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:11,280
is actually the life experience the

1755
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:13,359
players have um

1756
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:15,119
and that can be as trivial as

1757
00:59:13,359 --> 00:59:17,520
hey i watched

1758
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:19,359
a film that had a similar plot line to

1759
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:21,359
what's going on right now

1760
00:59:19,359 --> 00:59:23,440
and that already can you know kind of

1761
00:59:21,359 --> 00:59:25,680
precondition them to

1762
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:28,160
to create that contrasting view for how

1763
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,200
you think it's going to play out exactly

1764
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,200
yeah yeah

1765
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,559
so i think there would life experience

1766
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,640
it

1767
00:59:32,559 --> 00:59:37,040
yeah that again

1768
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,960
that's a massive difference for players

1769
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:41,359
and and again probably a way larger

1770
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,760
topic than we have time to cover today

1771
00:59:41,359 --> 00:59:45,440
yeah i want to i want to talk about

1772
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,960
to finish i want to talk about a good

1773
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,559
experience and a bad experience i've had

1774
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,799
but i won't do it in that order we'll

1775
00:59:48,559 --> 00:59:52,480
end on a high

1776
00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:54,480
so a bad experience i have and the

1777
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,559
reason i'm saying this anecdotes a

1778
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:59,839
because it's funny and b because it

1779
00:59:56,559 --> 01:00:01,200
helps people to see you know for their

1780
00:59:59,839 --> 01:00:02,960
you know like you said earlier on

1781
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,040
learned from my mistakes and mistakes

1782
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:07,359
other people have made

1783
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:10,240
is back in back in the the dark age

1784
01:00:07,359 --> 01:00:13,200
before i had some some really concrete

1785
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:14,640
solid good games i was on the hunt

1786
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,720
for some other games

1787
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,359
and where i live there's a

1788
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:21,119
there is a collective of dnd players

1789
01:00:19,359 --> 01:00:22,160
that i found on facebook and i said well

1790
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:24,079
hey that

1791
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,839
that seems like that's a little bit

1792
01:00:24,079 --> 01:00:28,079
so let me let me go here and play so i

1793
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:29,440
reached out and said hey i want to come

1794
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:31,040
they play a whole bunch of games but

1795
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,720
i've only really got experience with 5e

1796
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,559
so let's start with that and then we'll

1797
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,799
go from there okay here's here's the

1798
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:38,480
games this one's got players

1799
01:00:36,799 --> 01:00:40,400
you know player slots available you join

1800
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:43,440
that and i said okie dokie let's let's

1801
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:45,520
go down so i drove down into town one

1802
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,280
evening um

1803
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,720
turned up by myself at this crazy new

1804
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:51,200
place and oh it's your first time you

1805
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:52,960
don't need to pay okay right didn't i

1806
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,520
have to pay anyway but finally here we

1807
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:57,359
go no worries there

1808
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,640
thanks i guess

1809
01:00:57,359 --> 01:00:59,760
um

1810
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,359
yeah

1811
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,040
uh i guess you know it's volunteer run

1812
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:04,240
stuff so i do get it it was just a bit

1813
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,400
at the time

1814
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,599
how many persons don't ask me for money

1815
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,160
i don't even know what i'm paying for

1816
01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:11,440
yet um

1817
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,960
uh

1818
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,400
turned up and i was like okay let's

1819
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,880
let's sit down and play this five with

1820
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,559
this 5v table hi people i've never met

1821
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,960
before

1822
01:01:18,559 --> 01:01:23,680
the longer the short of it is

1823
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,559
they were playing a vastly different

1824
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,480
game

1825
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:28,400
to

1826
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:32,160
basically what anyone else would want to

1827
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:36,559
play it was very much a

1828
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:39,440
two of them wanted to play a very very

1829
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:41,680
modified and specific it was basically a

1830
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:43,760
riff on magic the gathering which i know

1831
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,359
has a lot of crossovers but the rules

1832
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:48,000
were changed quite a lot to try and

1833
01:01:45,359 --> 01:01:50,319
adopt the rules of magic so you had

1834
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,240
different swamp magic and blue magic and

1835
01:01:50,319 --> 01:01:54,400
all this other stuff that didn't really

1836
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,520
make sense to me in him at the time i

1837
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,839
said

1838
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,359
but d has rules for spell casting why

1839
01:01:57,839 --> 01:02:00,319
are we

1840
01:01:59,359 --> 01:02:01,839
why am i

1841
01:02:00,319 --> 01:02:03,680
now apparently at the table as i'm

1842
01:02:01,839 --> 01:02:04,960
building a character trying to learn how

1843
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,319
spells work in a completely different

1844
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,160
way when i've just spent a year trying

1845
01:02:06,319 --> 01:02:09,359
to work out how they bloody work in d d

1846
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,839
let alone

1847
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:12,960
this this weird modified way

1848
01:02:11,839 --> 01:02:15,680
and

1849
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:18,000
my first red flag was that

1850
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:21,200
they took turns and dming

1851
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:23,680
and that they both had player characters

1852
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:25,599
that they would play while still dming

1853
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,640
and i was thinking that that doesn't

1854
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:28,640
sound

1855
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,000
effective that doesn't sound right

1856
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:32,240
because

1857
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:34,640
dm pcs uh

1858
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:36,640
you gotta play them really carefully and

1859
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,960
i didn't get the vibe from these people

1860
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,880
that they would do that and it ended up

1861
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:44,640
being very much wish fulfillment for

1862
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:46,960
these people and in terms of dm ability

1863
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,559
it wasn't very good i have to say that

1864
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,160
it took me about five minutes to say

1865
01:02:48,559 --> 01:02:52,559
something or put the dm in a position

1866
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,319
that she said i don't know let me ask

1867
01:02:52,559 --> 01:02:56,160
the other dm at the table what they

1868
01:02:54,319 --> 01:02:57,680
would do in this position and then i was

1869
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,599
like oh

1870
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,839
you may as well just ask anybody because

1871
01:02:59,599 --> 01:03:02,880
you're not really dming at this point

1872
01:03:00,839 --> 01:03:04,960
anymore just

1873
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,160
screaming for help so that's the part of

1874
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:06,960
the name

1875
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,920
yeah

1876
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,440
yeah yeah so it was you know and pretty

1877
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,960
because lack of experience on their part

1878
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,359
and lack of communication and so on and

1879
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:18,640
so on and maybe a maturity thing both in

1880
01:03:15,359 --> 01:03:20,880
game and out of game um so i i quite

1881
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,160
cordially said i'm not gonna come back

1882
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,760
that wasn't really what i was looking

1883
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,880
for i wish you guys are the best but

1884
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,680
that's not

1885
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:29,200
really the game i was looking for

1886
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,960
it was very much a

1887
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,400
wish fulfillment for the for the two of

1888
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,440
them and if anybody else wanted to come

1889
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,680
along for their journey of wish

1890
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:37,039
fulfillment they could which is nice of

1891
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,039
them but

1892
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:40,640
that's not for me um

1893
01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:42,799
so for a few weeks after that i was kind

1894
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:45,039
of on the back foot because i'm gonna go

1895
01:03:42,799 --> 01:03:48,480
that was that was weird and bad and

1896
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:49,280
pretty much a waste of my evening um

1897
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,440
but

1898
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:52,799
a good experience it's not

1899
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,039
this is this is not an experience that

1900
01:03:52,799 --> 01:03:56,400
i've had personally it's something i saw

1901
01:03:55,039 --> 01:04:00,240
other people having

1902
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:03,440
but i was in brighton way back in

1903
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:05,440
february before everything went crap

1904
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,319
and we were walking around the uh aboard

1905
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,480
game

1906
01:04:06,319 --> 01:04:09,920
cafe bar

1907
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,200
area

1908
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,200
during the week because with some time

1909
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:15,280
off work and

1910
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:18,000
at about 4 p.m

1911
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,760
there was an adult man dm'ing for a

1912
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,039
bunch of school kids from the school

1913
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,480
down the road they're also in their

1914
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:23,440
uniform they've literally come out of

1915
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,599
school

1916
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:29,039
i've walked 200 yards down the road and

1917
01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:31,359
gone in and he was he was dming for them

1918
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:33,920
some after-school activity telling them

1919
01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:35,760
about some fantastical beasts of

1920
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:38,640
nature that they were

1921
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:41,359
charged with felling for the good of the

1922
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:43,280
the town and that really was a very

1923
01:04:41,359 --> 01:04:45,440
wholesome moment and it was a really

1924
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:48,079
nice contrast between

1925
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:49,920
the the adult games that i'm

1926
01:04:48,079 --> 01:04:51,440
playing and a part of to be like man

1927
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,520
there's a bunch of kids having fun after

1928
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:56,559
school and it made me feel

1929
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:58,720
like when i used to leave school

1930
01:04:56,559 --> 01:05:01,520
go home have a bowl of cereal and play

1931
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:05,119
my n64 it was a you know it was it was a

1932
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:07,440
nostalgic wholesome experience uh for me

1933
01:05:05,119 --> 01:05:10,799
yeah absolutely and i bet each and every

1934
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:12,960
one of them was having their minds blown

1935
01:05:10,799 --> 01:05:13,839
um i wanted to i wanted to join in i was

1936
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:14,720
like man i want to be part of this

1937
01:05:13,839 --> 01:05:16,000
because they look like they're having so

1938
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,680
much fun there

1939
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,680
so yeah and

1940
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:22,079
and that's kind of the point right is we

1941
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:24,400
said about earlier about the experience

1942
01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:26,400
always being unique in some way shape or

1943
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,599
form sure there'll be some commonality

1944
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,440
hell you're always going to pick up a

1945
01:05:27,599 --> 01:05:32,319
d20 chances are but

1946
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:34,400
that you know there's so much more that

1947
01:05:32,319 --> 01:05:38,079
impacts the experience and then probably

1948
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:39,599
we could we could ever do justice to

1949
01:05:38,079 --> 01:05:42,720
but i i think

1950
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:44,480
in in both of those scenarios

1951
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,880
at least some of the party was was

1952
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,480
having a having a whale of the time even

1953
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:49,520
the bad experience

1954
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,119
they

1955
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:52,960
that experience for them is is

1956
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:56,000
presumably what they they how they

1957
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,680
enjoyed to play and i think they're like

1958
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,760
anything it's about

1959
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:02,559
trying to find an alignment between a

1960
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:04,960
group of people that all want the same

1961
01:06:02,559 --> 01:06:06,480
broad kind of experience

1962
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,319
yeah and i think that's obviously where

1963
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:12,079
there was a big clash in the first

1964
01:06:08,319 --> 01:06:13,920
scenario um where in the second scenario

1965
01:06:12,079 --> 01:06:16,079
i'll see presumably there was a you know

1966
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,920
nobody was forcing those kids to go at

1967
01:06:16,079 --> 01:06:19,920
gunpoint you know they probably had

1968
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,280
quite open minds as to what dungeon

1969
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,400
dragons looked like

1970
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,000
and

1971
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:26,079
you know had that other thing we talked

1972
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:29,440
about probably quite a veteran dungeon

1973
01:06:26,079 --> 01:06:31,680
master uh at the helm ready to to kind

1974
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,559
of embrace this whole big group of new

1975
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,960
players

1976
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:36,960
with all sorts of wild ideas and and

1977
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,799
different experiences but ultimately

1978
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,839
probably a lot less in in dungeon

1979
01:06:38,799 --> 01:06:41,680
dragons

1980
01:06:39,839 --> 01:06:43,680
where everybody could have fun and

1981
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:45,599
obviously the as you say you want to

1982
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:47,200
join in aspect at that dm was having a

1983
01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:48,640
load of fun because

1984
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:50,559
he could see the enjoyment that he was

1985
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:52,640
creating which i think is

1986
01:06:50,559 --> 01:06:53,920
ultimately probably what the dm is there

1987
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:56,880
to do

1988
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:59,440
so two very different experiences

1989
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:00,880
and then it becomes about

1990
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,960
your own personal

1991
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:05,520
desire for what that experience

1992
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:08,079
should look like or you know how how it

1993
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:10,079
would be best suited to you

1994
01:07:08,079 --> 01:07:11,119
rather than one being wrong and one

1995
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:12,559
being right

1996
01:07:11,119 --> 01:07:14,559
crazy rules aside some people love

1997
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:16,559
homebrew that's that's their thing

1998
01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:18,319
i'm not gonna stop them

1999
01:07:16,559 --> 01:07:20,720
yeah exactly and i think that speaks to

2000
01:07:18,319 --> 01:07:22,640
the value of the game as a framework in

2001
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:26,079
that you can can take it

2002
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:27,359
so wildly different directions that

2003
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:28,559
no other

2004
01:07:27,359 --> 01:07:30,480
medium

2005
01:07:28,559 --> 01:07:32,160
can and i think that's why

2006
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:35,200
i've taken to it in the same way i took

2007
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:37,520
to video games in that it was this

2008
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:39,839
flexibility and freedom back in the day

2009
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:42,240
that films and books can't give you you

2010
01:07:39,839 --> 01:07:44,480
have that area of interactivity and then

2011
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:46,240
again dm layers on top of that not only

2012
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:49,359
a layer of interactivity but a whole

2013
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:51,920
layer of freedom that games often don't

2014
01:07:49,359 --> 01:07:52,799
have because by nature of the code they

2015
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,880
can't

2016
01:07:52,799 --> 01:07:56,400
whereas by nature of human beings you

2017
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,240
can because you have

2018
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:01,440
as much freedom as there is in human

2019
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:03,200
nature i remember explaining

2020
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:05,760
d d to my

2021
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:08,400
i'd know 10 11 year old friends when i

2022
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:11,359
first played that game with my brother

2023
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,200
um and this is like what like what is it

2024
01:08:11,359 --> 01:08:15,599
how do you do it is that is you know

2025
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:17,279
it's a report is that pieces are there

2026
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:20,239
yeah and and things that they could only

2027
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:21,920
relate to and i said like no it's it's

2028
01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:22,880
way more wild than that it can be

2029
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,880
anything

2030
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,719
it can literally be

2031
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,719
whatever the hell you know you could

2032
01:08:26,719 --> 01:08:29,440
have a you could have a castle you could

2033
01:08:28,719 --> 01:08:30,319
have

2034
01:08:29,440 --> 01:08:32,159
you know

2035
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:35,759
a pet demon

2036
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:38,080
it anything's possible and i think

2037
01:08:35,759 --> 01:08:39,520
one of the areas perhaps i i didn't talk

2038
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:42,080
about particularly is

2039
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:45,279
the dnd experience but

2040
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:46,960
that ability to be morphed into anything

2041
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:48,239
is truly

2042
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:50,400
just

2043
01:08:48,239 --> 01:08:53,279
a massive form of escapism

2044
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:54,799
um yeah yeah for everybody and and yeah

2045
01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:55,759
but that's not a negative thing you know

2046
01:08:54,799 --> 01:08:58,080
it's not

2047
01:08:55,759 --> 01:08:59,120
oh my god i need to escape it's but it's

2048
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,520
it's

2049
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:03,440
not mindfulness or anything else you're

2050
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,880
you're stepping away from

2051
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:06,719
the drudgery and the stress of the

2052
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,400
day-to-day that we all have in our lives

2053
01:09:06,719 --> 01:09:10,319
to say well okay let me

2054
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,759
let me put me in a place which has

2055
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:13,199
meaning and

2056
01:09:11,759 --> 01:09:16,480
i can also

2057
01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:18,960
escape into that world and also escape

2058
01:09:16,480 --> 01:09:20,960
personality if i if i want to and and

2059
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,000
explore with all of that stuff

2060
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,000
you know

2061
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,120
trial and and do all those sorts of

2062
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,040
things that

2063
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:28,480
you know ultimately come on to

2064
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:31,679
give your life skills and everything

2065
01:09:28,480 --> 01:09:34,799
else um you know there's such a broad

2066
01:09:31,679 --> 01:09:36,159
broad before to that one thing we're

2067
01:09:34,799 --> 01:09:39,120
trying to

2068
01:09:36,159 --> 01:09:41,440
label this in the the dnd experience

2069
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:44,560
um yeah exactly and you could ask a

2070
01:09:41,440 --> 01:09:45,759
thousand yeah a million players and you

2071
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:46,719
know whilst there'll be some common

2072
01:09:45,759 --> 01:09:48,319
threads

2073
01:09:46,719 --> 01:09:50,640
every one of them will have their own

2074
01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:52,400
their own story to them

2075
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:56,080
that is a really

2076
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:59,760
perfect point to call today's episode to

2077
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:02,239
an end we've covered

2078
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:04,960
ex human the human experience to use

2079
01:10:02,239 --> 01:10:06,800
such a cliche term i suppose

2080
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:09,600
we are definitely going to have another

2081
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:11,120
one that will be on the mechanical

2082
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,719
experience the best i can come off for

2083
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,239
the top of my head

2084
01:10:12,719 --> 01:10:16,560
where i've got i think both of us have

2085
01:10:14,239 --> 01:10:18,719
got again a fair whack to talk about

2086
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:20,960
there in terms of

2087
01:10:18,719 --> 01:10:22,560
on the table rather than at the table

2088
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,400
experience so the experience of the

2089
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,080
characters and of

2090
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:28,080
monsters and

2091
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:30,400
xp and the bits and bobs like those

2092
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:32,560
rules we keep talking about yeah yeah

2093
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:35,040
the framework uh and everything that it

2094
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:37,600
includes but otherwise thank you very

2095
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:40,000
much ian for for joining me today thank

2096
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:42,320
you appreciate the time uh for everyone

2097
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,880
at home if you have any thoughts or

2098
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:46,480
comments which i'm hoping you there's a

2099
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:48,320
lot of food for thought there on what

2100
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:50,159
we've discussed today you can you can

2101
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,840
find me on twitter download underscore

2102
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:55,460
dnd but otherwise thank you all for

2103
01:10:51,840 --> 01:11:00,649
listening and good night

2104
01:10:55,460 --> 01:11:00,649
[Music]