Dec. 24, 2021

Education


For this episode I'm joined by Sam Cheung, known online as the Educational DM, who takes us through his years of experience in the educational and pastoral applications of Dungeons & Dragons. We discuss the various ways players can learn through D&D, for students and new players alike. Although the obvious challenges are arithmetic and creativity, Sam and I investigate the deeper ways players can improve themselves while playing. Questioning why the Queen wants you to despatch those "bandits", that is to say, who is most likely to benefit from this task, can help players strengthen that vitally important ability to think critically. Likewise, finding space between the bombast to build those social relationships can be a useful training ground for many, allowing them a trustable arena to migrate out of their comfort zones. After everything, of course, the real treasure was the friends we made along the way!

  • 03:26 - Exploring Education Through D&D
  • 10:55 - How Design Promotes Learning
  • 39:51 - Building Trust
  • 45:44 - Educating New Players

Find Sam on:

Find me on:

References:

Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,120
welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 9

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,790
of thinking critically today's topic is

3
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:15,400
education

4
00:00:06,790 --> 00:00:15,430
[Music]

5
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:25,279
[Applause]

6
00:00:15,430 --> 00:00:28,560
[Music]

7
00:00:25,279 --> 00:00:30,560
so today i'm joined by sam chung known

8
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,920
online as the educational dm thank you

9
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,200
ever so much for joining us today sam

10
00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,399
can you tell us a little bit about

11
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,640
yourself

12
00:00:34,399 --> 00:00:38,559
thank you for having me download well i

13
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,760
have been a teacher for

14
00:00:38,559 --> 00:00:42,960
probably 23 24 years now i teach maths

15
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,160
to

16
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:48,399
currently 13 to 18 year olds but most my

17
00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:51,199
career it's been from

18
00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:54,399
10 11 to to 18

19
00:00:51,199 --> 00:00:58,480
so in the uk that's secondary school

20
00:00:54,399 --> 00:01:01,359
but i've uh i started playing d d

21
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,440
when my dad bought me a box set

22
00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:05,280
from a car boot sale now if you're not

23
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,600
from the uk you probably won't know what

24
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,439
a car beat sale is but uh there are

25
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,000
these wonderful just

26
00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:14,720
junk sales anyway he bought me a set

27
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:17,360
when i was i think i was just turned 10

28
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,759
and uh and i never really looked back i

29
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,280
just had a a love oh well i had a love

30
00:01:19,759 --> 00:01:23,360
fantasy before that

31
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,240
and then just only the last few years

32
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,080
maybe

33
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,159
five years or so i'm i've started

34
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,280
playing with my students uh dungeon

35
00:01:28,159 --> 00:01:32,079
dragons

36
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,799
yeah that's me awesome uh that's i've

37
00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:34,960
not

38
00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:36,720
all the guests i've had uh finding it in

39
00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:39,520
a car boot is what i haven't heard yet

40
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:41,040
so i love that's that's great uh and you

41
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,399
didn't just buy it from amazon like me

42
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:46,880
like a chump uh aside i do

43
00:01:44,399 --> 00:01:48,320
in the 80s this was back in the 80s yeah

44
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,479
amazon didn't exist

45
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,720
it wasn't around um

46
00:01:50,479 --> 00:01:54,479
and my dad was just a great lover of

47
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,079
these car boots elsa just wander around

48
00:01:54,479 --> 00:01:57,840
for hours and poke you know and it was

49
00:01:56,079 --> 00:01:59,600
fun for us kids yeah

50
00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,159
and he'd give us a little bit of money

51
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:04,240
uh but he he knew i loved fancy and he

52
00:02:02,159 --> 00:02:05,920
bought this for me and and

53
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,439
my older brother played a little bit of

54
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,440
d so

55
00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:10,879
so he he said yes this is this will be

56
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,599
good for him

57
00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:15,840
but then proceeded not to help me

58
00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:18,879
do anything at all learn about the game

59
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:21,200
just let me let me play it so i just was

60
00:02:18,879 --> 00:02:22,400
had to teach myself completely from

61
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,319
scratch for

62
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,319
you know for firstly friends from church

63
00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:28,319
but also friends from school and yeah

64
00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:30,160
just run things and it was complete

65
00:02:28,319 --> 00:02:32,239
chaos but we had fun and that's that's

66
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,640
all that matters really indeed indeed

67
00:02:32,239 --> 00:02:37,920
well talking of teaching yourself

68
00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:40,640
today's topic is education so what does

69
00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:43,040
that mean to you in the d d framework

70
00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:45,519
well so as i said i started playing

71
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,599
dungeons and dragons with my students

72
00:02:45,519 --> 00:02:49,440
about five years ago actually it was one

73
00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:51,599
of the students who suggested yeah why

74
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,200
don't we play dnd and i thought why

75
00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:54,640
haven't i done this before

76
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,200
and then

77
00:02:54,640 --> 00:03:00,000
after a year or so i was running a

78
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,879
campaign with these um these students

79
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,319
and

80
00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:04,560
all of a sudden

81
00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:08,000
you know everything for in me as an

82
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:10,239
educator suddenly started realizing

83
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,640
it's hitting so many of the kind of

84
00:03:10,239 --> 00:03:15,360
educational points

85
00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:17,519
not just in the academic arena but

86
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,280
something that's always interested me

87
00:03:17,519 --> 00:03:21,840
more than just i mean i love teaching

88
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,840
maths i really do but um i would say i'm

89
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,959
more of a school master than a maths

90
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,040
teacher

91
00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:28,799
so i love the past oral side so i've

92
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,720
worked in a couple of boarding schools

93
00:03:28,799 --> 00:03:32,959
and i you know i was a deputy house

94
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,040
master and a boarding house for a while

95
00:03:32,959 --> 00:03:36,080
and just seeing

96
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,080
you know

97
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,799
something that always catches my eye

98
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,120
when i read the news is things like what

99
00:03:40,799 --> 00:03:45,519
are the skills that companies want that

100
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,200
teach schools aren't teaching

101
00:03:45,519 --> 00:03:49,200
things like critical thinking

102
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,159
communication all of these kind of

103
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,680
things

104
00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:53,680
you know uh

105
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,720
innovation and you know

106
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,480
creativity all of these things that

107
00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,920
i actually do think that schools do

108
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,080
teach them but

109
00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:05,120
sometimes they they get put in little

110
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:08,159
boxes in schools and and made labeled

111
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:10,159
you we are now teaching creativity or

112
00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:11,920
something like that um

113
00:04:10,159 --> 00:04:14,400
but certainly i think critical thinking

114
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,320
is is a massive one and morality

115
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,440
actually that's that was actually my

116
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:22,400
first article was i wrote about kind of

117
00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:24,639
moral values uh and ethics

118
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,320
so these things

119
00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:27,759
were being

120
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,080
learnt

121
00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:31,919
not so much taught but learned through

122
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,080
playing dnd

123
00:04:31,919 --> 00:04:36,320
so i'll give you uh

124
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,960
the the big example which really just

125
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,840
hit it home for me the uh i was running

126
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,600
through

127
00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:44,400
one of the adventurous camp and

128
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:47,600
adventurous league uh settings

129
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,639
and they had to climb a hill so a mound

130
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,479
boulders

131
00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:51,680
and i said what are you going to do to

132
00:04:50,479 --> 00:04:53,520
the party and they say oh we are we're

133
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,560
just going to climb

134
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,040
and

135
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,040
they so i got them to roll and the

136
00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,160
wizard who had particularly low strength

137
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,360
fell down

138
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,199
and was

139
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,639
hurt himself and i said what are you

140
00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:06,240
guys going to do now it's like well

141
00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:07,120
we're going to wait

142
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,199
and

143
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,960
so he rolled again and he got up to

144
00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:12,639
about the halfway point and then he

145
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,800
rolled a second time to get to the rest

146
00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:16,720
of the way and he fell down again and he

147
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,720
was bleeding out at the bottom and

148
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,560
eventually so and and i asked the rest

149
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,479
of the party he's unconscious bleeding

150
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,720
out what are you gonna do

151
00:05:22,479 --> 00:05:26,639
and one of the the the kind of more

152
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,800
experienced players then just said

153
00:05:26,639 --> 00:05:31,280
okay guys hold on to my rope i'm gonna

154
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,520
chimmy down i'm gonna heal him stick a

155
00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:35,600
health potion him and uh

156
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,039
yeah and and then i'm gonna help him

157
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,680
come back out

158
00:05:37,039 --> 00:05:41,280
and after the session i said

159
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,360
guys what could we have done bit

160
00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:45,440
differently and there was silence and

161
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,720
then i was thinking okay have a look in

162
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,080
your backpacks have a look at your

163
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,840
character sheets

164
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,759
like ah rope

165
00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:53,919
grappling hooks we just thought that was

166
00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:57,280
you know that was flavor tips or that

167
00:05:53,919 --> 00:05:58,080
was just there for kind of extra design

168
00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:01,280
and

169
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:04,720
i mean these these boys were generally

170
00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:06,960
really avid video game players yeah and

171
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,880
i was thinking why don't they kind of

172
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,800
have this critical yeah this is what i

173
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,120
would say is critical thinking why don't

174
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,440
they have this this critical thinking to

175
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:18,000
to come up with these ideas

176
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,000
and i realized actually um so for

177
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,440
example i know that when i play a

178
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,280
computer game

179
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,440
i love role-playing games i don't get

180
00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:27,440
enough time to play them um but

181
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,919
generally there's there's an item that

182
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,919
you pick up specifically for a task yes

183
00:06:29,919 --> 00:06:33,680
so these are the old-school

184
00:06:31,919 --> 00:06:36,080
role-playing games so there might be a

185
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,120
kind of a magic key that fits a specific

186
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,039
door or

187
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,199
you pick up a rope and then there's a

188
00:06:39,039 --> 00:06:43,440
specific kind of wall that you have to

189
00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:44,800
use the rope to climb etcetera

190
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,560
but this stuff was already in their

191
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,960
backpacks and this stuff is general and

192
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,120
in dnd there's there's just so much

193
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,680
stuff that you can have that is

194
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:56,240
and it and then it becomes about your

195
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,680
invention and your use of that

196
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,360
but the other thing about role-playing

197
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,039
games on yeah are

198
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,520
in computer games

199
00:07:01,039 --> 00:07:05,759
and i i have to confess i'm very guilty

200
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,199
of this if you come across a difficult

201
00:07:05,759 --> 00:07:09,759
challenge

202
00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:11,199
you have a go at it a couple of times

203
00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:12,880
and then what do you do if you if you

204
00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:13,840
get really frustrated about it what do

205
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,360
you do

206
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,400
nowadays you just go and look it up

207
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,680
online

208
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,840
right

209
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,360
except with the indie you you can't do

210
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,360
that yeah

211
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,880
and i can't remember who it was i think

212
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,759
it was my favorite matt colville who

213
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,919
said

214
00:07:25,759 --> 00:07:30,880
that if you take 10

215
00:07:27,919 --> 00:07:32,160
dungeons and dragons parties to get into

216
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,199
a castle

217
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,440
they will come up with 10 different ways

218
00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:39,440
so some of them might try and

219
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:42,880
bribe the guard some of them might kind

220
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:44,720
of try to hide in a cart of hay some of

221
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,879
them will try and fly over the wall or

222
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,400
wait until night and creep over the wall

223
00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:49,680
some might actually dig under the wall

224
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,360
but they'll come up with all sorts of

225
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,879
different ways so even if you're playing

226
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,759
the same module

227
00:07:52,879 --> 00:07:58,160
you can't go up and look online and say

228
00:07:55,759 --> 00:08:00,000
you know this is the right way of doing

229
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,479
it because there is no right way you

230
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,160
know and and that comes comes back to

231
00:08:02,479 --> 00:08:05,840
this idea of critical thinking and

232
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,000
innovation and

233
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,879
learning on your feed and not you know

234
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,879
and i think that that's so powerful

235
00:08:10,879 --> 00:08:16,319
and then the consequence of the

236
00:08:12,879 --> 00:08:18,479
potential failure um i love this idea of

237
00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:19,840
failing forward as well yeah

238
00:08:18,479 --> 00:08:22,000
but so even

239
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,720
without knowing it you're learning about

240
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,240
things um you're i mean this is this is

241
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,039
what makes the difference between

242
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:31,120
experienced players and non-experienced

243
00:08:29,039 --> 00:08:32,479
players that they they have these tools

244
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,399
in their belts

245
00:08:32,479 --> 00:08:36,800
but they're also learning other things

246
00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:39,599
they're learning about as i said uh you

247
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,120
know morality uh and by that i'm talking

248
00:08:39,599 --> 00:08:44,159
about

249
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,839
just not kind of not doing the

250
00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:47,839
the thing that might upset your your

251
00:08:45,839 --> 00:08:49,600
party members stealing from your party

252
00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:52,240
members or

253
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:56,160
yeah just playing that character that

254
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:59,120
yeah upset everybody uh realizing that

255
00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,560
the treasure is not the end i mean

256
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,839
are you gonna say are you gonna say it's

257
00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,440
the friends that we made along the way

258
00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:06,000
is that what you're getting yeah i'm

259
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,399
gonna say that i really am it's terrible

260
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,399
but it's it's true

261
00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:12,640
and and and this is an education this is

262
00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:14,640
an education not just in those kind of

263
00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,240
academic qualities this is an education

264
00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,399
in life

265
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,440
and i think that's that's incredibly

266
00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:23,600
powerful and

267
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:25,440
and since i've then uh started becoming

268
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,480
you know in some ways evangelistic about

269
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:31,200
this i i just rave out this to everyone

270
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:33,440
i've discovered all of these people and

271
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:36,959
places online that are

272
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:38,080
are now using dnd in in tremendous ways

273
00:09:36,959 --> 00:09:40,000
so

274
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,360
i'm in contact with an ethics professor

275
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,959
who is using

276
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,880
dnd in her

277
00:09:42,959 --> 00:09:46,880
ethics classes

278
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:50,000
you know the the game to grow guys are

279
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:52,560
doing uh both education and psychology

280
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,080
classes and and that's that's incredibly

281
00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,160
powerful that you can use it in

282
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,240
psychology i've i've been talking to

283
00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,200
people who are using it for autistic

284
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,760
kids

285
00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,000
and people who are in prisons and and

286
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,240
seeing some great results about kind of

287
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,320
that and i can just imagine

288
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,720
you know these these people who are in

289
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,680
prison and uh you know

290
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,560
anyway

291
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:15,839
you should go on yeah no yeah i i

292
00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:18,160
totally get what you mean and thank you

293
00:10:15,839 --> 00:10:19,920
so much for that it's your passion

294
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,760
shines through so it's lovely to hear

295
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,680
and i mean about to get about to get my

296
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,200
notebook out because you're covering so

297
00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,880
many things there that i'm absolutely

298
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:30,000
going to forget that i had i

299
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,680
had something to add to that so i mean

300
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,120
my first and easiest thought on that

301
00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:35,040
then is do you think

302
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,560
i mean i think i know the answer i think

303
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,800
way back when the game was designed in

304
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:40,480
the 70s and 80s they never it was never

305
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,240
conceived as a

306
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,480
vehicle for learning

307
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,079
do you think nowadays that maybe that

308
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,959
focus has shifted a little bit i mean i

309
00:10:46,079 --> 00:10:48,320
know

310
00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:49,680
you've got to learn the rules so there's

311
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,760
another in any game there's an element

312
00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:53,440
of learning the the constraints like

313
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,640
even with you know video game rpgs

314
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,959
there's a level of that but what we're

315
00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,440
talking about and what i really want to

316
00:10:56,959 --> 00:11:00,640
talk about more is this learning

317
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,839
i don't want to use meta learning

318
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,079
because they're not blurring the

319
00:11:01,839 --> 00:11:05,760
definition of the word meta in in this

320
00:11:04,079 --> 00:11:07,920
context but um

321
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:11,279
you know learning about the ethics about

322
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,399
morals um about comprehension and and

323
00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:14,880
critical thinking all that kind of stuff

324
00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:16,399
so do you think it's it's a conscious

325
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,959
part of the design in these later

326
00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:21,279
editions at all that would be an outcome

327
00:11:18,959 --> 00:11:23,360
an output of playing the game

328
00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:25,680
well i mean interestingly in the in the

329
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:28,000
90s i remember seeing an advert for uh

330
00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:30,320
in the 90s and it i i saw that it was

331
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,399
actually being marketed as something

332
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,399
that uh would stretch the brightest

333
00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:36,959
students so i think they've always been

334
00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:38,560
aware of that and to be honest you i

335
00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:40,839
mean so dungeons and dragons as you

336
00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,320
probably know came out of strategic

337
00:11:40,839 --> 00:11:43,120
games roots

338
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,360
so

339
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,920
being aware of that they they certainly

340
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,000
push towards boys yeah you know who who

341
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,560
are interested in nerdy boys who are

342
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,240
interested in kind of strategy

343
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:56,079
and certainly i i've known quite a few

344
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,079
people who are you know play d in a

345
00:11:56,079 --> 00:12:00,320
strategic way i think what people are

346
00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:02,880
discovering now is

347
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:05,279
you know and and i think that streamers

348
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,120
like critical roles you know and so many

349
00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:09,279
other streams are discovering you know

350
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,399
how it can draw on the role playing and

351
00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:12,639
the drama

352
00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:15,360
and people are discovering from that

353
00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:17,839
because you're encouraging role play

354
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,240
you are encouraging social skills so

355
00:12:17,839 --> 00:12:23,920
this is why it's useful for people with

356
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,920
autism but also again nerdy boys or kind

357
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,839
of shy girls yeah i mean that's a bit of

358
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,519
a generalization right you know i know

359
00:12:27,839 --> 00:12:32,959
but you know

360
00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:33,839
and i've seen it in my uh my games um

361
00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:35,680
actually

362
00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:39,120
with one of my adult games we had a

363
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:41,120
young chap he was a little bit shy and

364
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,680
the rest of us were experienced gamers

365
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,560
and our other experienced role players

366
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:46,880
and

367
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:49,839
it just so happened

368
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,760
that we came across a young dragon

369
00:12:49,839 --> 00:12:53,680
and he was the only one who could speak

370
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,880
draconic

371
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:58,399
and so as a dm i said the rest of you

372
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,160
you can't say anything

373
00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:01,920
there's young chap who's quite shy is

374
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,680
it's gonna you know communicate with

375
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,680
this white dragon would you say and he

376
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,480
kind of armed an odd and and came out

377
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:08,560
with

378
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:12,560
come with us and we can help find you a

379
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:14,240
bigger place to live and to kill goblins

380
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:17,600
and you know and it came through i mean

381
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:20,320
i got him to roll a fairly easy uh tc

382
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:22,880
yeah and the look on his face and just

383
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:26,000
after that he he opened up and so much

384
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,279
just because of that success and

385
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,440
i think

386
00:13:27,279 --> 00:13:31,920
i think some people are now

387
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,839
consciously working on those things so

388
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,880
people who are applying role-playing

389
00:13:33,839 --> 00:13:37,600
games

390
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:40,560
are working on those consciously uh so

391
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,079
i'm i'm talking to a few game designers

392
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:44,560
who who are doing that

393
00:13:42,079 --> 00:13:48,480
uh one guy who's

394
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:50,720
working specifically on uh working you

395
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,600
know with the deaf community mm-hmm so i

396
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:55,120
don't know whether you know the

397
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:58,320
innsbriles um and that hatchling uh dm

398
00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:00,720
riches their a's um he designed the game

399
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,240
where you have to communicate with uh

400
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,680
with sign language oh yeah that actually

401
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,920
rings a bell actually yeah i have heard

402
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:07,680
about that on the grapevine yeah and and

403
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,399
he works with youth in that sense and

404
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:12,880
he's um but there are other other gamers

405
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:13,680
who i mean uh for example i think it's

406
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,639
the

407
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:18,720
rpg wonder home which is a particularly

408
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:21,040
yeah it's specifically designed to be

409
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:24,079
not there's there's no combat in it at

410
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:26,639
all and again i think that's aimed

411
00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:27,760
primarily at young people and children

412
00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:30,079
who

413
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,800
who who you know learning the joys of

414
00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:35,199
discovering the world and i think that

415
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,600
i mean that that might you know

416
00:14:35,199 --> 00:14:40,079
it's not formal education but it is

417
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,760
certainly an education of sorts

418
00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:43,040
and definitely building these things

419
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,680
into the um

420
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,839
the games for for little kids i think

421
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,560
that they they will definitely think

422
00:14:47,839 --> 00:14:52,320
about educational aspects but other than

423
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,720
that i think i just think that there are

424
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,360
so many educational benefits even if

425
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,839
people don't realize it

426
00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:03,600
exploration is one of the three pillars

427
00:14:59,839 --> 00:15:06,320
of the uh of dnd and that in itself is

428
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,760
is education i mean yeah when you when

429
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,279
you know people talk about the joys of

430
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,480
traveling and since i've come out to

431
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:14,639
malaysia you know i've had to i i've not

432
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,560
had to but i've loved traveling around

433
00:15:14,639 --> 00:15:18,320
southeast asia and discovering some

434
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,079
amazing places

435
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,680
um and now i can

436
00:15:20,079 --> 00:15:23,680
talk about those experiences and that's

437
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,279
been a real education

438
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,360
the best kind of education is when you

439
00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:29,920
don't even know it's happening

440
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,519
exactly it's just super super fun

441
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,639
a couple of things off the back of that

442
00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:34,320
actually to look back around to what you

443
00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:36,880
were saying earlier on about the um the

444
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:39,040
climbing up the boulders anecdote

445
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,839
i wanted to say if it makes anyone feel

446
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:45,279
any better my players who all

447
00:15:41,839 --> 00:15:48,240
they tell me they're all adults um

448
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:50,639
but uh they they routinely forget what's

449
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,320
in their bags i there was just quite a

450
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:53,920
few points of mirroring like it's kind

451
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,639
of like ageless a lot of these problems

452
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,399
are ageless which i i i'm very fond of

453
00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:00,800
like just being like oh

454
00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:02,160
we did have pythons or pitons in our bag

455
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,839
and we were just trying to you know

456
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,320
climb this cliff why didn't we use those

457
00:16:03,839 --> 00:16:09,360
why did we do some weird like i'll cast

458
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,839
fly on me and you and then the the jury

459
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,040
turns into a bear and it's like a bird a

460
00:16:11,839 --> 00:16:14,480
bear's not going to climb up well

461
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,639
actually some bears are good at climbing

462
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,959
but a bird and climb up and stuff and it

463
00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:20,720
was like you've got like

464
00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:24,399
you're carrying around like 20 pounds of

465
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:26,000
metal like for this express purpose

466
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:28,240
and and they bought rope they've

467
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,120
everyone comes with like 50 foot of rope

468
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,800
yeah

469
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,880
why don't you send your best climber up

470
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,040
first you know why do you all have to

471
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,680
climb up at the same time

472
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:40,399
these kind of things it's um it made me

473
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,079
tear my hair out because as i said yeah

474
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:43,519
actually it was interesting because in

475
00:16:42,079 --> 00:16:44,480
that group

476
00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:46,720
were

477
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,800
i think uh off the top of my head i

478
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,040
think three of the best mathematicians

479
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,279
in the school from different year groups

480
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,360
i mean these were these are kids who are

481
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:57,279
going to go off to the top universities

482
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,199
and what the asia some of the others

483
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:00,880
were actually incredibly capable this

484
00:16:59,199 --> 00:17:03,120
there's one who is

485
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,480
one of the top debaters as well and

486
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,880
incredibly

487
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,760
well read and and eloquent

488
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,199
but these guys uh just hadn't thought of

489
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,520
these things yeah

490
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:16,959
um but i think the more they play the

491
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:19,520
more they will realize that they can do

492
00:17:16,959 --> 00:17:21,439
these things and and i you know i i

493
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,919
think that's yeah you're completely

494
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:25,839
right yeah it it it goes for adults as

495
00:17:23,919 --> 00:17:27,839
well oh yeah for sure and i think it's

496
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:30,880
very very true

497
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:34,720
and and i you know people often uh joke

498
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:37,280
to me uh you know how do i put on my cv

499
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:40,720
and i think it unfortunately especially

500
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:42,559
in uk and elsewhere it's still got a bit

501
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,880
too much of a nerdy

502
00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:46,640
connotations for for people to to want

503
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,640
to put on their cv

504
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,400
but i don't think it's going to be long

505
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,440
i think within 10 years people are going

506
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,520
to see

507
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:57,039
that it's something to really show off

508
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,960
about and i i really hope to see that

509
00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,799
well i'd like to consider myself at the

510
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,880
vanguard of that as i although it's not

511
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:05,280
on my it's not on my cv or resume for my

512
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,280
american listeners just yet in my my

513
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,520
current employment i

514
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,200
rolled the dice metaphorically during my

515
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,960
interview at the the typical question

516
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,360
you get of you know what kind of what do

517
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,520
you enjoy in your spare time um and i

518
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,520
was like i play a bunch of you know d

519
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,280
and d which is as you

520
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:24,160
quite put a bit of a

521
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:26,480
a level of risk there certainly today

522
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,919
in the uk uh and it paid off because one

523
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,840
of the interviewers was like oh yeah i

524
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:32,160
used to play that in the 80s and bishop

525
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:35,120
bosh and he is now in my game of two

526
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,799
years and then 65. that's brilliant so

527
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:38,559
that was a one of my

528
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:40,720
few game bits that actually paid off in

529
00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:43,919
the end so

530
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,440
i think as a as a teacher it's less you

531
00:18:43,919 --> 00:18:47,120
know it's less frowned upon because you

532
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:50,240
get all sorts of different teachers and

533
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:51,760
yes teachers generally uh it's not a

534
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,679
problem if you're a maths teacher then

535
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,240
you can be as nerdy as you are

536
00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:57,360
it's actually positively encouraged to

537
00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,480
be nerdy

538
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:02,799
as a maths teacher but uh yeah so i'm

539
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,760
not afraid to put up my cv

540
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:05,200
the other thing you mentioned there

541
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,400
about the friends you made along the way

542
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,440
and again this is time back into the

543
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,360
ageless thing is i was speaking to to my

544
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,480
players recently and i was like guys i

545
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,919
don't i don't know about you but to me

546
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,280
it feels like you know it's

547
00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:16,799
it's quite long and we're not going to

548
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,000
end for another

549
00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:21,039
two years maybe and i i was more you

550
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,480
know i was worried when i shouldn't have

551
00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:23,760
been that i was

552
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,440
not wasting their time but you know

553
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,120
needlessly dragging it out and all of

554
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,440
them were like no no no the journey is

555
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:30,880
what's important we don't like we know

556
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,919
that we know there's an end we trust you

557
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,520
that you know there's there'll be a

558
00:19:31,919 --> 00:19:36,400
payoff at some point that's that will be

559
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,760
rewarding but we're enjoying the crazy

560
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,679
wacky stuff that you're putting in front

561
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,720
of us as we go through so that's don't

562
00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:44,720
you know don't worry about it down there

563
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,720
just continue on what's that oh guys

564
00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:47,840
i mean there is just something to be

565
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,400
said it doesn't matter what you're doing

566
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,960
but just media with uh with other people

567
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,960
and yeah just enjoying food and banter

568
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,600
and everything else so that in itself is

569
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,120
the social aspect is a wonderful kind of

570
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,679
outcome

571
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:03,120
so i actually i wrote an article just

572
00:20:01,679 --> 00:20:06,000
recently

573
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:07,760
about uh how dungeons and dragons helps

574
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,440
you make friends which

575
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,880
is really yeah i mean that that's

576
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,200
something that i think is is really

577
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,360
interesting because again that's not

578
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,200
what people would think of education you

579
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,799
know it's like you're a teacher it's not

580
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,400
your job to you know to help our

581
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:21,360
children make friends

582
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,440
um

583
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:25,520
so a few years ago about four years ago

584
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,679
i went to a yeah something called a

585
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,400
positive schools conference

586
00:20:27,679 --> 00:20:32,320
and there's a part of me that certainly

587
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,559
is kind of a little bit cynical all this

588
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,240
kind of like well-being and fuzzy stuff

589
00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:38,080
but you know and there's that little

590
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,559
part of me and especially when i'm tired

591
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,240
um but you know the majority of me is

592
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:44,480
kind of yes this is kind of like let's

593
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,559
see how we can really engage children

594
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,440
you know and and stuff

595
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:49,760
but

596
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,760
sometimes i'm kind of very

597
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,159
cynical about some of the speakers who

598
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,480
are a little bit kind of very

599
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:59,600
let's say emotion emotional and emotive

600
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,919
etc but uh the two main speakers were

601
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,720
incredibly impressive there was one one

602
00:21:01,919 --> 00:21:06,960
so the the main takeaway for that for me

603
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,880
was that the main speaker

604
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,880
backed up a lot of her arguments with

605
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,880
kind of her experience but uh you know

606
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,799
she spoke with authority on this and she

607
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,640
also drew on the statistics which always

608
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:18,720
helps me as mathematicians seriously

609
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,760
statistics are always good i'm sure but

610
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,880
yeah

611
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,440
the main thing that she said yeah that

612
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,960
has really really stuck with me

613
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,360
is that

614
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,600
the biggest factor in her child's

615
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,960
well-being yeah mental health and

616
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,480
well-being

617
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,280
is their friends

618
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,960
okay the second year but that's not so

619
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,960
so much there's only so much we can do

620
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,039
about that the second is the biggest

621
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:46,960
thing that a school can do for the their

622
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:48,480
pupils is give them a sense of belonging

623
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,000
and i was working in a boarding house at

624
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,080
the time and i think yes that's

625
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,400
absolutely what we are working for

626
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,000
getting them to be a community and you

627
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,320
know feeling as if they're belonging but

628
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,039
the idea of kind of friendship as being

629
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,440
the most important thing for a kind of

630
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:05,440
the the mental health and well-being of

631
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,440
a child and obviously that has knock-on

632
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,760
effects to adults as well sure and i

633
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,679
think especially during this last

634
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,600
these last two years has been

635
00:22:11,679 --> 00:22:14,640
i think incredibly difficult for a lot

636
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,880
of people

637
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,679
yeah those friendships and that kind of

638
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,760
uh that community has has been difficult

639
00:22:19,679 --> 00:22:23,679
much more difficult with yeah everyone

640
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:27,360
being isolated and you know things like

641
00:22:23,679 --> 00:22:30,080
that yeah no i am i've

642
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:32,320
semi recently been suffering with a few

643
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,080
light mental health issues as as well

644
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,760
and we actually had to cancel dreaming a

645
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,520
game because i was just essentially

646
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,280
written off for the week and a half and

647
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,799
i know that one of my players and

648
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,799
friends he's dealt with something

649
00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:45,200
similar in the past so he was he was

650
00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:46,400
helping me kind of work through the

651
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,480
issues

652
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,400
and then near the end i was like you

653
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,240
know you spent a lot of time listening

654
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,400
to me and talking to me so thank you so

655
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,159
much and he was like man you don't

656
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,760
clearly you don't understand like how

657
00:22:56,159 --> 00:22:59,919
much of a rock that you've been as the

658
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,159
dm for like two years you've given us

659
00:22:59,919 --> 00:23:03,679
consistency which is like super

660
00:23:02,159 --> 00:23:05,280
important seems like you've given us

661
00:23:03,679 --> 00:23:08,000
consistent

662
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,080
social interaction for two years you

663
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,480
know one of which was in lockdown seems

664
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,640
like that i i still owe you something so

665
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,760
please don't worry about it i was ah

666
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,120
never really thought of it like

667
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,760
sometimes i you know i approach it like

668
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:21,360
a job almost and it it you know it's

669
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,720
without being paid

670
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,240
but then when you put it like that i was

671
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,480
like wow i didn't realize it was it was

672
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,960
that you know quite important to you

673
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,720
and i think it's very easy to to forget

674
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,880
that especially when i can't see the

675
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,520
wood for the trees it's the dm

676
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,559
yeah that's great i think sometimes it's

677
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,159
it is really hard when you're dming to

678
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:42,960
to kind of see

679
00:23:40,159 --> 00:23:44,799
how much they are benefiting and gaining

680
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,520
out of that i think

681
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:46,559
but

682
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,640
you know i

683
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:51,039
you know this is why in some ways

684
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,960
sometimes i really miss playing i mean i

685
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:54,640
gained so much out of dming but i miss

686
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,039
playing as well because then you're part

687
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,120
of the group and i had a brief period a

688
00:23:57,039 --> 00:24:01,440
couple of years ago where we we actually

689
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:04,880
had a i was playing with somebody else

690
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:07,440
and it was it was fun because

691
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,039
we had a again a different group of

692
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,559
people who

693
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:12,559
uh some of them

694
00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:15,279
were very good yeah actually it was i've

695
00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:17,360
got one colleague who is very good at uh

696
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:19,360
strategizing and i love to your eyes as

697
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,919
well so we would bounce off each other

698
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,640
but then there was one week where

699
00:24:21,919 --> 00:24:26,640
we were trying to free some slaves from

700
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,720
a slave wagon

701
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,080
and we found this little kind of area

702
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,640
where we knew that they were going to

703
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,799
camp and we'd set up these traps so and

704
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,039
then it turned into the next week and he

705
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:38,960
was missing oh no so we'd set up all

706
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:41,039
these traps around and we were going to

707
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,039
kind of uh frighten them and scare them

708
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:45,840
and then try and tackle the wagon and

709
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:48,000
take the slaves out yeah this narrow

710
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,159
channel that the traps hadn't been set

711
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,840
which set the traps all in the woods all

712
00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:54,320
around

713
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,600
and it just completely went wrong yeah

714
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,600
just my my teammates my party members

715
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,200
just actually they ran into our own

716
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,279
traps oh god

717
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,080
that's as long as it can get

718
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:05,919
yeah

719
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,840
um but it was just you know those that

720
00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:09,360
kind of thing is just fun we can talk

721
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,760
about it there was i mean there was this

722
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,960
great moment right at the end of so i

723
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,120
ran

724
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,039
with that group i was the first game

725
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,159
that i ran was the sun the citadel and i

726
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:19,919
don't know whether you know it but at

727
00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:23,440
the end there's a big bad and there's a

728
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:25,440
tree and etc but um one of the players

729
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,840
was a kind of

730
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,559
a wild magic

731
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,120
sorcerer and

732
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:34,159
just the wrong role or rather maybe just

733
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:37,279
the right role yeah and his magic went

734
00:25:34,159 --> 00:25:39,120
wrong and he had a created a fireball

735
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:41,919
centered on him

736
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:44,000
half the party was unconscious he took

737
00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:45,919
out the big bad guy two of his big

738
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,039
henchmen and took out the tree as well

739
00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:48,640
so there was no

740
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:50,799
worries about the spores from the tree

741
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,880
it just kind of because the fireball

742
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:55,760
took them all out and that was just such

743
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:58,000
an epic way to finish the game yeah

744
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,320
and we still laugh about it now and

745
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,120
we're actually so i um

746
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,799
i started a shop actually in johor in

747
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,240
keno so i've got a shop manager who's

748
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:07,919
running that i'm not doing that while

749
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,600
i'm teaching at the same time

750
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:11,360
but we're thinking about setting up some

751
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,200
kind of um

752
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,960
bar area

753
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,640
we're actually going to name the bar

754
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,960
you're thinking about maybe the bar

755
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,880
after this character because he was a a

756
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,520
halfling brewer

757
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,360
wild magic sorcerer yeah so he would

758
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,919
have yeah he actually came to me before

759
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:30,640
the the game and asked me whether yeah

760
00:26:27,919 --> 00:26:32,159
he could have some magic beers you know

761
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,799
i said yeah let's let's work out

762
00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:36,480
something maybe some healing beers or

763
00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:38,000
you know and and if you take too many

764
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,679
you'll get drunk and you'll have yeah

765
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,760
concentration issues but yeah you know

766
00:26:39,679 --> 00:26:44,000
and and one that will kind of stave off

767
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,360
exhaustion etc so we'll kind of work

768
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,039
these things out and and that's

769
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,880
wonderfully creative as well which is

770
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:50,640
another learning outcome which is you

771
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,120
know something i'm writing article on

772
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,760
now but you know those those stories are

773
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:58,240
great there's uh there's um

774
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,480
there's a psychologist who talks about d

775
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,520
d in psychology she run called megan

776
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,120
connell i don't know whether you've

777
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,080
heard of her yeah

778
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:09,840
so she runs a youtube channel but she

779
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,440
also runs a clinical group uh d group

780
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,000
with girls

781
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:16,320
and one thing that she always says that

782
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,159
rings really true for me is that when

783
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,440
you play

784
00:27:18,159 --> 00:27:20,399
you don't

785
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,880
play

786
00:27:20,399 --> 00:27:25,600
as a third person you you don't kind of

787
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,600
say oh my country well you kind of do

788
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,039
say my character is going to do this but

789
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,159
that's you

790
00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:32,799
and then

791
00:27:30,159 --> 00:27:34,480
when you're reminiscing about it

792
00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:36,240
you don't say

793
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,720
do you remember when

794
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,200
my character did this you say do you

795
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:44,080
remember when we did this

796
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,840
yeah so it's even though it's one step

797
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,000
removed

798
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,399
you are still kind of very very much

799
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,799
invested in it it's you doing those

800
00:27:50,399 --> 00:27:54,080
things especially when it gets exciting

801
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:55,840
it's you

802
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,919
going through the adventures it's you

803
00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,399
killing the monsters you

804
00:27:57,919 --> 00:28:03,600
achieving that triumph

805
00:28:00,399 --> 00:28:05,919
and so as a psychologist you you can you

806
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,360
know she she was saying that uh you can

807
00:28:05,919 --> 00:28:10,159
work through

808
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:13,520
the issues that you might have

809
00:28:10,159 --> 00:28:15,360
much more safely but also you are going

810
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,480
yeah and yeah it's a safe environment

811
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,520
because you can pull them out

812
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,320
immediately

813
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,159
but also you've got a slight distance

814
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,399
but you are really invested in that

815
00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:26,720
person so there's a that's a really

816
00:28:24,399 --> 00:28:28,559
interesting dynamic that you are

817
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,960
you've got there and it's

818
00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:33,600
incredibly useful i think

819
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,360
yeah yeah i always say um

820
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,399
actually before that i wanted to pick up

821
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:39,200
on something we mentioned right at the

822
00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:40,799
beginning that i'm super stoked that you

823
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,080
brought up because it

824
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:43,440
validated me because i put it in my

825
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,960
notes and i was like well if sam's

826
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,760
saying it then i'm

827
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,080
i know what i'm talking about

828
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,880
but it was around like obviously when on

829
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,960
face value when it comes to like

830
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,480
sitting at a table playing d d

831
00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,159
a lot of it is it seems to be you know

832
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,600
maths and maybe like language

833
00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:04,080
comprehension in terms of like trying to

834
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,240
pass the rules and understand how that

835
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,559
how you know how the spells work and you

836
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,600
can and can't and and the constraints

837
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:11,919
and the scopes and that kind of stuff

838
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,159
and then of course arithmetic for

839
00:29:11,919 --> 00:29:15,919
working out dc's and acs and plus plus

840
00:29:14,159 --> 00:29:17,840
plus all that kind of modifiers bear in

841
00:29:15,919 --> 00:29:19,120
mind my mental arithmetic is

842
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,080
terrible

843
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,360
so i'm i can't do any of that stuff um

844
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,200
that is what it is and it serves its

845
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,480
purpose um

846
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,760
but i love

847
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,600
that i've got here in my notes critical

848
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,600
thinking and then i called it kind of

849
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,240
abstract thinking around like problem

850
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,159
solving and puzzles and yes that is the

851
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,480
kind of like the hidden layer you were

852
00:29:36,159 --> 00:29:40,399
alluding to earlier on of of

853
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,919
it's a quote-unquote safe space

854
00:29:40,399 --> 00:29:43,039
to train

855
00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:44,960
those

856
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:46,799
skills so i've got my example in my

857
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,440
notes here around like critical thinking

858
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:51,440
it's but but why does the king want you

859
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,840
to carry out this quest what do they

860
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,960
stand to

861
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,559
benefit like it get you know if you can

862
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,520
get the players to ask those kind of

863
00:29:56,559 --> 00:29:59,440
questions

864
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,440
rather than just you know like what

865
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,720
craft like just blindly follow killed

866
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,399
seven wolves okie dokie yes sir

867
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,640
well it does

868
00:30:06,399 --> 00:30:09,840
i think i think it certainly does

869
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,080
teach

870
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,200
a certain i mean

871
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,360
with with the

872
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,200
with any deal i think that players

873
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,679
certainly start to learn to be a little

874
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,919
bit more suspicious of people and their

875
00:30:19,679 --> 00:30:23,919
motivations and so it does teach that

876
00:30:21,919 --> 00:30:26,559
element as well so social skills in that

877
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:28,640
sense but after a little while if you if

878
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:32,320
you're playing with the same dm

879
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:34,799
every npc is not going to be an evil nbc

880
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,200
yeah even though the worst dm i think is

881
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:39,600
not going to make every npc is

882
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,279
but certainly makes the the the players

883
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,159
think and question anything that's

884
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:46,640
slightly unusual that's going on it's

885
00:30:44,159 --> 00:30:48,559
like what's going on and then yeah

886
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,120
learning those subtle social skills as

887
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:53,360
well those social cues

888
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,240
but i think also just learning with one

889
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,440
another

890
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,840
you know to

891
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,919
and this is huge for teamwork

892
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,080
i mean as a teacher actually i don't get

893
00:30:59,919 --> 00:31:02,960
to to do much in the way of teamwork at

894
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,640
all

895
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,559
and discussing around uh table stuff um

896
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,200
i mean we we hate meetings so you know

897
00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:11,919
that's that's our that's our free time

898
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,440
yeah

899
00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:17,200
but i'm sure that other jobs teamwork is

900
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,279
incredibly important

901
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,279
and i think that that's an educational

902
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:23,440
thing that's that's one of those

903
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:24,480
things that companies want that uh that

904
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,840
schools

905
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,320
uh are not very good at teaching

906
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,000
teamwork yes yeah i actually i actually

907
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,320
think that um

908
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,960
a sport a team sports are incredibly

909
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,960
good for that but dungeon dragons

910
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,200
even though it does appeal to those kind

911
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,600
of kids as well and i think it will you

912
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,840
know given the right game i think anyone

913
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,080
who says oh dungeons dragons is not for

914
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,480
me i i think actually it's because you

915
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,080
haven't found the right game

916
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,399
but i think there's a lot of kids who

917
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,320
are not into sport

918
00:31:52,399 --> 00:31:55,519
and though for those kids who are not

919
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,360
into sport

920
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:59,519
this is an amazing place to learn

921
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:02,080
teamwork skills to learn communication

922
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:04,799
skills to learn you know how to to work

923
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:07,039
together to achieve something yeah and

924
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:09,200
actually the the achievement in itself

925
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:10,720
kind of like that you know killing the

926
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,960
big bad or

927
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,120
foiling the plot of the eel king or

928
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,880
whatever you know kind of solving the

929
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:21,679
problem or seeing whether the evil dm is

930
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:24,640
has come up with some clutter yeah to

931
00:32:21,679 --> 00:32:27,519
you know worked out what the dm is doing

932
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,279
yeah and foiling the evil dm

933
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,720
but uh and and that sense of

934
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:32,720
accomplishment

935
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,200
where are they gonna get that i mean

936
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,679
if yeah and especially as a group

937
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:40,240
i mean if you do it online

938
00:32:37,679 --> 00:32:42,799
yes you do get some of that and yes

939
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,120
there is actually i think so so

940
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:47,440
some of the you know nowadays uh online

941
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,760
gaming i think that you can have really

942
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,919
really good teamwork in terms of very

943
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,000
militaristic style teamwork where you're

944
00:32:51,919 --> 00:32:56,720
you're fulfilling a role

945
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,000
but where you're then kind of i'm

946
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,679
we're done just drag it's a different

947
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,919
type of teamwork it's where you sit down

948
00:32:59,679 --> 00:33:04,559
and you discuss things and you figure

949
00:33:01,919 --> 00:33:06,159
out how to go forward together and you

950
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:07,200
innovate together

951
00:33:06,159 --> 00:33:09,519
and

952
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,919
i find that you know that generally

953
00:33:09,519 --> 00:33:13,600
online gaming you are still there are

954
00:33:11,919 --> 00:33:15,039
still very much people are out for

955
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,000
themselves even though they're part of

956
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:18,000
the team

957
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,640
you know they'll still yeah kind of rush

958
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,720
in for the the yeah the loot lust at the

959
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,240
end and try and grab grab the loot you

960
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,240
know because at the end of the day the

961
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,559
most important person is them

962
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,799
it doesn't happen in in dungeons dragons

963
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,960
well not well it does to begin with yeah

964
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:34,720
so with my students yeah they were

965
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,080
arguing and jumping in and trying to

966
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,840
grab the best loot for themselves and

967
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,000
that i think is a very much video game

968
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,039
mentality yeah for sure but after a

969
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,360
little while they realize oh okay let's

970
00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:47,200
kind of take the loot and share it and

971
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,440
see who this is best for

972
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,360
yeah because they learn to to be in a

973
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,440
team like that and communicate

974
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,760
yeah no i'm i mean again and it's this

975
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,360
is an ageless thing i hope i'm not like

976
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,720
digging on my players too much but in

977
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:02,320
terms of that isolationary worldview

978
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,000
there are still you know as i said 60

979
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,960
plus sessions in there are still

980
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,720
occasions where i can i can see that

981
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,159
coming out and in fact in fact it even

982
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:11,919
led to one of the player character

983
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,079
deaths recently because they were just

984
00:34:11,919 --> 00:34:16,720
so like not really

985
00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:18,320
having the wider picture right yeah kind

986
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:20,000
of the way i the way i'd structured it

987
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,639
they they dropped down and these escape

988
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,359
pods it's all very like goofy sci-fi

989
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:27,679
fantasy still high magic

990
00:34:25,359 --> 00:34:29,280
and there was two per escape pod three

991
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,119
escape pods but they obviously they

992
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,839
dropped separate so basically they were

993
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:35,760
in pairs separated by quite difficult

994
00:34:33,839 --> 00:34:37,599
terrain and each of these pads had a

995
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,480
number of enemies to fight

996
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:40,560
and

997
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,679
the pair in the middle were getting

998
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,000
destroyed

999
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:45,359
for various reasons and

1000
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,639
so not only was there not really

1001
00:34:45,359 --> 00:34:48,079
communication or teamwork between that

1002
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,320
pair in the middle they were very much

1003
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:52,720
like it's me against the world and it's

1004
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,839
also him against the world despite us

1005
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:57,440
being ostensibly a team

1006
00:34:55,839 --> 00:34:59,119
uh so not only was there not that there

1007
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,880
was also not a communication between the

1008
00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:02,960
other groups so it wasn't until that guy

1009
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,400
had been dead for like two rounds

1010
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,520
the other players eventually come over

1011
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,720
and be like oh where's bob

1012
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,040
uh

1013
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:13,200
yeah he kind of died like

1014
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,200
you know like 30 seconds ago and then

1015
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,359
the other characters were like

1016
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,079
what what the hell man

1017
00:35:17,359 --> 00:35:21,599
why why did no one tell us or scream or

1018
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:23,520
shout and it's like well

1019
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:25,520
you know you didn't check in on them so

1020
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,599
they're like to make everybody feel

1021
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,480
better that stuff is still still happens

1022
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:32,720
but that was very much a learning

1023
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,040
opportunity yeah for them to be like oh

1024
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:37,040
okay we could have potentially mitigated

1025
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,040
that a little bit with a lit just a

1026
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,880
modicum of communication between us

1027
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,560
would have potentially saved that

1028
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,160
character's life yeah and they'll learn

1029
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,320
that for next time they'll learn that

1030
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,160
they'll they'll remember it i mean this

1031
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:51,520
is one of the things

1032
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,119
i i used to uh do duke of edinburgh

1033
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,839
expeditions oh yeah i don't know whether

1034
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:57,760
you know that i'm silver silver dv so

1035
00:35:55,839 --> 00:35:59,599
yeah that's pretty that's actually you

1036
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,920
know that is actually impressive doing a

1037
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:03,520
yeah silver bronze is a little bit easy

1038
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,599
silver is actually impressive if you've

1039
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,760
got silver that's good if you've got

1040
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:09,760
gold then i am actually genuinely

1041
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,640
impressed because so i was taking these

1042
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,160
these yeah inner city london kids yeah i

1043
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,079
mean yes they're from fairly wealthy

1044
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,640
backgrounds but we're taking them out to

1045
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:20,880
the countryside and they had to kind of

1046
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,800
walk for three days and camp for two

1047
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,760
nights and carry everything that they

1048
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,560
they had

1049
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:29,680
and i think i can't remember which um i

1050
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:32,320
think was prince andrew who had gone uh

1051
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,720
through the military or

1052
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,400
it might have been him he said the great

1053
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:38,960
thing about duke of edinburgh is that

1054
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,720
there is still the very real possibility

1055
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,440
that somebody could die

1056
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:45,359
which is um which is i mean something

1057
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:48,560
you would never want to be with students

1058
00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:50,400
etc with children etc but

1059
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,240
there's a lot of complaint in in

1060
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,240
education that we've made it too safe

1061
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,040
and and certainly in the last 10 years

1062
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:57,200
they've

1063
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,920
yeah i mean it's not it's not a new

1064
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:03,520
concept but uh the buzzword in the last

1065
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:05,200
you know 10 15 years has been resilience

1066
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,400
and especially obviously especially

1067
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,480
during this

1068
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,760
you know this last two yeah this last

1069
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:13,839
year and a half and yes during the

1070
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:15,200
pandoric resilience is so important and

1071
00:37:13,839 --> 00:37:18,640
as you said

1072
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:20,640
in dnd they can die you know and i i i

1073
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,880
cringe at people dm's who said i would

1074
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,520
never kill my d yeah or yeah kind of

1075
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,839
you know this you know sometimes i i

1076
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,160
post stuff online about how i can

1077
00:37:27,839 --> 00:37:32,079
sometimes make it more difficult for my

1078
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,440
my players and they you know you will

1079
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:35,599
occasionally get the odd person who'll

1080
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,280
say why would you do that it's supposed

1081
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:39,359
to be fun well

1082
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,359
it is fun because it's a challenge you

1083
00:37:39,359 --> 00:37:43,599
know that very real possibility of it's

1084
00:37:41,359 --> 00:37:46,240
actually exciting when you get the very

1085
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:48,560
yeah you've got maybe half the party who

1086
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:50,800
are kind of you know are down and you've

1087
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,119
got that last foe and you're trying to

1088
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,400
try something yeah yeah not to have a

1089
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:56,240
tpk

1090
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,440
and that's exciting yeah

1091
00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:02,240
and the real very real chance of failure

1092
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:04,960
the very real chance of someone dying

1093
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:07,520
is uh is something that you know that is

1094
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,520
it's not only exciting and fun but it's

1095
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,480
yeah it's a learning process as well

1096
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,000
yeah i think i think that's another

1097
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,160
reason why to flip on and tell a little

1098
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,400
bit that roguelike video games in a

1099
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,720
renaissance you know uh quite vogue

1100
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,240
right now because the whole process is

1101
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:22,000
like if you die you have to start back

1102
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:23,760
at the beginning again and i think

1103
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,760
people really enjoy that

1104
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,680
that risk you know it's not just like

1105
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,839
well if i die i reboot the game and i

1106
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,079
start 30 seconds down the corridor

1107
00:38:29,839 --> 00:38:33,839
because that even for me takes takes a

1108
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:35,680
little bit out of it but when you've

1109
00:38:33,839 --> 00:38:37,440
invested say like 20 minutes into a run

1110
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,599
or whatever and then you get back to

1111
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,960
square one it's there's there's there's

1112
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:42,160
the driver and they're super popular

1113
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,520
right now and i think one of the reasons

1114
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,400
is because of that

1115
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,720
the risk involved so yeah for sure for

1116
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,720
sure

1117
00:38:48,750 --> 00:38:52,059
[Music]

1118
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:59,119
[Music]

1119
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,240
now you alluded to it earlier on

1120
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:04,480
actually when i gave that example of

1121
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,079
having that critical thinking because

1122
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,119
you know the critical thing is always

1123
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:11,440
you know seeing trying to determine

1124
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:13,280
the facts the you know the objectivity

1125
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,200
and trying to make sure you've taken out

1126
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,720
all kind of bias and subjectivity and

1127
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,880
seeing things for what they really are

1128
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,720
and and so on and so on an element of

1129
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,760
critical thinking i really

1130
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:23,200
think about it in the way of trying to

1131
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,000
see through conspiracy theories is a

1132
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,079
very

1133
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,720
easy way for me to

1134
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:30,640
to kind of understand it and that's why

1135
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,320
i brought up the like but why does the

1136
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,240
king want to carry out this quest but

1137
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,000
why you know what are they what do they

1138
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:38,320
stand to get from it because nothing's

1139
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,560
for free so what are they what why are

1140
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,640
they benefiting from it and

1141
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,680
nine times out of ten it will be

1142
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:49,040
a d d quest and it is it can be quite

1143
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:51,599
two-dimensional but sometimes it is

1144
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,520
nefarious to some extent

1145
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:55,440
and i've got in my notes that it it can

1146
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,800
be a bad thing and you mentioned earlier

1147
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,400
on like

1148
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,880
sometimes the players would get into

1149
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,480
that mentality of the evil dm every

1150
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,280
every npc has got something up their

1151
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,839
sleeve and every npc has got some weird

1152
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,520
you know seven year plan to foil us and

1153
00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:12,319
i'm like now that that's just a small

1154
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,760
boy like he can't he can't he is seven

1155
00:40:12,319 --> 00:40:14,960
he hasn't got a seven year plan to kill

1156
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,720
you here

1157
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,040
because he himself is seven

1158
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:20,880
so there is those that like

1159
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,480
it can swing too much the other way and

1160
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,800
that very much happened with my guys

1161
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,040
after a couple of a couple of

1162
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,920
you know inclement individuals they've

1163
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,400
now

1164
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,640
they the pendulum swung very much in the

1165
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,520
mistrust direction

1166
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,960
and now certainly it is slowly starting

1167
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,880
to to come back in in the other

1168
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,000
direction but um

1169
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,920
i loved

1170
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,440
when you mentioned earlier on about

1171
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,359
learning each other and the dm and the

1172
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,920
other players as

1173
00:40:45,359 --> 00:40:50,240
people as well as their characters

1174
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:53,200
because they're such a huge amount of

1175
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:55,280
the game is trust and it's it's very

1176
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,040
simplistic for me to say trust each

1177
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,800
other because that means basically

1178
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,880
nothing um but

1179
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,440
but what i mean is that like as i said

1180
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,119
earlier on they trust me to have

1181
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,119
like an enjoyable journey for them

1182
00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:08,240
they're trusting me to have that payoff

1183
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:09,760
that they're willing to go on the

1184
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:11,520
journey and to spend another year

1185
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:14,960
playing because i know it'll be some

1186
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,920
crazy end goal that'll be super fun

1187
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,400
and

1188
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,240
likewise and this is something harder to

1189
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,680
builders between players and dms is

1190
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:23,440
trusting

1191
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,880
each other both

1192
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:29,680
the dm trusting the players not uh

1193
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:32,319
eventually not to just consider everyone

1194
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,920
some nefarious evil do it but likewise

1195
00:41:32,319 --> 00:41:36,079
that is it's a two-way street the

1196
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,520
players have to trust the dm to

1197
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:39,119
not just

1198
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,800
the old granny who was selling them

1199
00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:43,119
apples last session is ah stabbed you

1200
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,760
all in the back like that is just

1201
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:47,359
lame so the players have to trust the dm

1202
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,800
to not do that as well and when you when

1203
00:41:47,359 --> 00:41:52,480
you start to finally kind of build that

1204
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,240
trust in such a way where it all kind of

1205
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,240
meets in the middle and becomes this

1206
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:57,760
very

1207
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:58,640
self-sustaining machine of role play

1208
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,760
that is

1209
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,680
that is the

1210
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,760
the golden the objective that's the

1211
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,160
sweet spot yeah that's the bit but it's

1212
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,440
so hard to get to because people change

1213
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,119
over time let them what they're

1214
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,119
role-playing so trying to

1215
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:13,520
keep this line

1216
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:16,240
i mean i get asked about because i'm

1217
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,720
working with students how how do i if

1218
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:20,960
how do i encourage teamwork and and this

1219
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:23,599
is something that i actually yeah i've

1220
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,920
been yeah thinking a lot about because

1221
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:28,880
obviously i'm talking about educational

1222
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,680
use of dungeons and dragons how do i uh

1223
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:35,359
specifically go about hitting certain

1224
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:38,000
yeah learning outcomes and i mean again

1225
00:42:35,359 --> 00:42:39,839
i wrote this about uh kind of making

1226
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,560
friends etc but i want to write another

1227
00:42:39,839 --> 00:42:45,440
article about teamwork i think the um

1228
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,560
i can't remember what it's called the uh

1229
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,280
the four

1230
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,040
uh elements of let me try and find out

1231
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,599
forming storms

1232
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:56,240
yeah it's called tuckman's team of group

1233
00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:59,040
development models yeah forming storming

1234
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:01,119
uh normalizing and performing yeah yeah

1235
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,200
and i and i say you know

1236
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:05,520
i will often yeah especially when the

1237
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,760
the students are

1238
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,880
fighting which happens because they as i

1239
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,560
said they

1240
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,079
yeah especially they come from video

1241
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,160
game backgrounds where they will just

1242
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:16,000
run and grab the loot as quickly as

1243
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,240
possible and and some of them will

1244
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,240
actually be munchkins which is i think

1245
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:22,319
that step up from power gamer is where

1246
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:24,400
they'll they'll grab all the magic items

1247
00:43:22,319 --> 00:43:26,400
and even if it yeah it benefits them a

1248
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,240
tiny amount kind of

1249
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,839
and it might benefit their teammate a

1250
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,680
lot more they'll keep hold of it yeah

1251
00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:34,560
this is mine no this is mine because it

1252
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,400
yeah it gives me that because one hit

1253
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,960
once a year i'll do one point more

1254
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,440
damage and that's all that matters

1255
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,599
yeah so that's you know um but they'll

1256
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:46,240
argue and they'll kind of they'll fight

1257
00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:47,680
and and actually i'll i'll sit back you

1258
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:50,720
know as long as it obviously doesn't

1259
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,240
come to blows or gets too serious

1260
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:54,079
i've got this image of you sitting at

1261
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:56,160
the table as the table is now just like

1262
00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:57,680
brawling and like bottles are flying and

1263
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,839
you're just like no no this is team

1264
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:02,560
building

1265
00:43:59,839 --> 00:44:05,200
but it is i mean that's that's genuinely

1266
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,119
the the you know kind of the

1267
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,359
kind of the player who i remember

1268
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:12,240
specifically was like that

1269
00:44:09,359 --> 00:44:14,319
he realized that he upset other players

1270
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:16,640
and you know i think that's now you know

1271
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:19,359
in his mind as he goes forward and plays

1272
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:22,079
that he should be maybe less like that

1273
00:44:19,359 --> 00:44:23,920
and hopefully in future that he will not

1274
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:27,119
be like that at all and it kind of like

1275
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:29,760
be be a player who who shares and and

1276
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:31,920
sees those friendships as more important

1277
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,200
you know and i i think that's that's it

1278
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,880
yeah the

1279
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,359
the friends we made along the way yeah

1280
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,640
the kind of the the most important

1281
00:44:37,359 --> 00:44:40,400
lesson

1282
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,920
in some ways

1283
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,680
yeah well absolutely and that's why i

1284
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,359
love that you know me

1285
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,960
having more anecdotal evidence of my

1286
00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:49,760
adult players saying that so it you know

1287
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,359
is it does it is absolutely true they're

1288
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,319
super stoked to turn up every other week

1289
00:44:51,359 --> 00:44:54,480
to just

1290
00:44:52,319 --> 00:44:55,599
have the journey like where's the next

1291
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,920
stop on the line it's not our

1292
00:44:55,599 --> 00:45:00,160
destination but it's an interesting

1293
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:03,520
break

1294
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:05,440
to kind of labor a metaphor there but um

1295
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,359
i so

1296
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,480
i guess this is this is also this again

1297
00:45:07,359 --> 00:45:10,160
this is also going to be an ageless

1298
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,200
discussion i'm about to open up here but

1299
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,480
i

1300
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,319
because i want to talk about newer

1301
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,400
players coming in to the hobby and

1302
00:45:14,319 --> 00:45:17,839
obviously that's going to be more likely

1303
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,200
perhaps that's wrong but i would imagine

1304
00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:20,800
it more likely for younger players

1305
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,760
because i've had less time being alive

1306
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,359
to

1307
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,240
play the game

1308
00:45:23,359 --> 00:45:28,079
stands to reason in my head uh

1309
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,920
and i always so i when i started up my

1310
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:32,160
game of six uh

1311
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,000
four of them at brand brands banking me

1312
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:36,160
completely new i don't know what it is

1313
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,440
sounds cool i googled it there's this

1314
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,440
thing called critical role that looked

1315
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,880
good oh god alarm bells flying but

1316
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,040
anyway that that was that was the level

1317
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,240
of their experience coming in

1318
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:48,480
and

1319
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:50,480
so i as a quote unquote experienced dm

1320
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,440
whether for whatever that means x years

1321
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:55,680
number of dm various different groups um

1322
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,359
i kind of want to treat the first

1323
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,280
chapter of the first arc almost as a

1324
00:45:57,359 --> 00:46:01,680
prologue almost as a

1325
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,680
very set piece elements

1326
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,119
to have those learning opportunities i

1327
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,560
call them so at the end of the session i

1328
00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:08,640
can be like

1329
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,560
what i said so patronizing because again

1330
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,119
20 people like my seniors as well but

1331
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,920
being like what did you learn from that

1332
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:18,640
and it's it's stuff like hey you don't

1333
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,720
have to fight everybody like you don't

1334
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,720
that that might not have necessarily

1335
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:24,800
turned into a combat or maybe an npc you

1336
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:26,240
know tagalong steps in and says whoa

1337
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,079
whoa guys

1338
00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:29,920
what about we come to a compromise and

1339
00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:30,800
then the players go oh

1340
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,800
can you

1341
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,440
demo can you do that and i'm like

1342
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:37,359
well it's happening right now so

1343
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,359
of course there was there was this

1344
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:41,440
wonderful article i read i think it was

1345
00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:44,079
about a year ago um

1346
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:46,160
and it wasn't i mean the article

1347
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:49,280
actually didn't say much at all um the

1348
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:52,240
article was about a mom yeah um who her

1349
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,640
child was playing dnd and what a great

1350
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:56,960
thing it was to do during the pandemic

1351
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,640
and then she was bonding with her son by

1352
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,480
i think they got the hero's facebook and

1353
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,480
then oh yeah she was cooking through

1354
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,760
some of that but there was a wonderful

1355
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:08,160
line in the middle of that saying that

1356
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,480
my son had actually started the game

1357
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:13,520
with our family and

1358
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:16,319
he was teaching us that fighting wasn't

1359
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:18,960
the only answer so i think that's such a

1360
00:47:16,319 --> 00:47:21,599
great thing yeah this this is a kind of

1361
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:24,880
like it must be a teenage boy teaching

1362
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:27,359
adults yeah his family that

1363
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,640
fighting is not the oh god

1364
00:47:27,359 --> 00:47:30,559
you don't have to kill everyone you meet

1365
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,599
yeah

1366
00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:33,359
so

1367
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:35,440
yeah i think that's so important and i

1368
00:47:33,359 --> 00:47:37,680
think that's increasing you know

1369
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,240
especially with the you know with the

1370
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,800
the streamers now because role-playing

1371
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:44,960
is so much more of an a important aspect

1372
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,280
of the game than it used to be so i

1373
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,920
think yeah as i said you know when when

1374
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:52,240
i started yeah it was all about combat

1375
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:55,280
it was all about the strategy um i mean

1376
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:57,680
not not yeah 100 i you know one of the

1377
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,599
things i've always loved about dnd is

1378
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,240
is the options

1379
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:04,720
to negotiate your way around something

1380
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:07,839
or to try and trick the monster or doing

1381
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:11,280
something like that um actually one of

1382
00:48:07,839 --> 00:48:13,839
the the the saddest things about

1383
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:16,160
hobbit the the three movies that that

1384
00:48:13,839 --> 00:48:18,319
should have been one movie yeah the

1385
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,480
whole thing was a travesty i'm sorry um

1386
00:48:18,319 --> 00:48:20,480
yeah

1387
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,040
we'll pad this episode with 50 minutes

1388
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,319
of you ranting about the hobby if you

1389
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,800
want

1390
00:48:26,319 --> 00:48:30,400
i could i could do and about how

1391
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,160
terrible it is but one of the saddest

1392
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,640
things i think in

1393
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,760
the the move from the book to the film

1394
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,640
is

1395
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,559
when bilbo meets the trolls and gets

1396
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,400
captured by the trolls

1397
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:45,040
now in the film

1398
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:47,839
the dwarves and gandalf attack the

1399
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,760
trolls and it's a fight

1400
00:48:47,839 --> 00:48:51,680
in the book

1401
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,520
actually gandalf comes and starts

1402
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,680
talking to the trolls and because he's

1403
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,680
talking to them so much you know and i

1404
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,119
i've read the book years or years ago so

1405
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,720
i can't remember it very well but i

1406
00:48:59,119 --> 00:49:02,800
remember that actually he talks to the

1407
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:04,559
trolls until it's morning and trolls in

1408
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,160
the you know when they had daylight

1409
00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:06,960
turned to stone

1410
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,520
so

1411
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:11,200
it's not about combat it's about gandalf

1412
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,880
going and just entertaining i can just

1413
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,480
imagine that yeah and again off going

1414
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,680
and telling them stories and making them

1415
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,520
laugh and just

1416
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,200
enjoying his company

1417
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,440
you know and and these fascinating

1418
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,760
stories that this wizard is telling

1419
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,280
and then not realizing the time of day

1420
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,520
it is you know

1421
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,839
and again that's what that's a wonderful

1422
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:32,480
thing kind of that i think it's a shame

1423
00:49:29,839 --> 00:49:34,400
it's not in the film yeah yeah

1424
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,000
so i i think another thing i wanted to

1425
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,079
add is once once

1426
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,599
the players have learned

1427
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:41,440
that and they've kind of stepped away

1428
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:43,520
from their video game tropes and you

1429
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,359
know kill seven wolves or whatever and

1430
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,880
you know this that and the other and and

1431
00:49:45,359 --> 00:49:48,480
you know problem-solving skills like if

1432
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,000
it is to kill seven moves like perhaps

1433
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,680
they could just go and buy the meat that

1434
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:54,319
the person wants and say they've done it

1435
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:56,319
or you know 101 other solutions but

1436
00:49:54,319 --> 00:49:58,880
what i'm getting at is then later on

1437
00:49:56,319 --> 00:50:00,480
down the line when you you can kind of

1438
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,960
kind of turn that all that trope on its

1439
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,119
head so when you bring in creatures as

1440
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:08,559
i'm doing now that are like mindless

1441
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:10,880
aberrations that just just only exist

1442
00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:12,960
to fight and to consume

1443
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,079
it means a little bit more because the

1444
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,720
players

1445
00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:18,640
and their characters are like oh we

1446
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:20,079
this is a rare occurrence where we can't

1447
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,119
we're actually our hands are being

1448
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:22,800
forced

1449
00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:24,720
we can't talk our way we can't there's

1450
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,240
no we can't even trick these creatures

1451
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:28,000
because they're just abominations you

1452
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,079
know horrible creatures that don't have

1453
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,839
a mind that just exist to destroy and

1454
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:33,920
consume there's no there's no way we can

1455
00:50:31,839 --> 00:50:36,400
get around this or at least very few

1456
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:38,480
ways we could get around this versus

1457
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,640
anything else it kind of brings

1458
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,079
the importance of those encounters up a

1459
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,040
little bit if every encounter happened

1460
00:50:42,079 --> 00:50:44,400
to that point it's been fight fight

1461
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,160
fight fight fight this is just another

1462
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,079
one we fight but if you've had the

1463
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,400
mixture of like we've bribed the guards

1464
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:53,119
we've we've talked to the trolls until

1465
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:55,200
morning we've only cut off you know

1466
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:56,559
their lapels so we pretend we've killed

1467
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,839
these people to the person that wants

1468
00:50:56,559 --> 00:50:58,960
the bounty

1469
00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:01,280
and then you get to appointments like

1470
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:04,160
nope we can't talk to them we can't

1471
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:06,319
bribe them we can't placate them we just

1472
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,920
these like it's just a

1473
00:51:06,319 --> 00:51:09,280
disgusting horrible task that we're

1474
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,520
forced to do

1475
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,680
it almost brings up what would otherwise

1476
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,520
be a just a routine combat to another

1477
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,760
layer of like i've got a mess i've got

1478
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:20,160
dirty my hands here and

1479
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,240
it's disgusting and i i think that is an

1480
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:25,040
another benefit there of that training

1481
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:28,079
cycle yeah i think that now we are

1482
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:30,160
moving more towards that um

1483
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:32,079
especially i think as a

1484
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,160
as a culture we've become a little bit

1485
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:37,119
more aware of

1486
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:39,599
the horrors of war and combat etc and

1487
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:41,920
and you know we see on the tv and and it

1488
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:43,040
becomes more i hope it kind of strikes

1489
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,920
home to us

1490
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:48,240
and the increase now of the game uh

1491
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,559
using kind of um

1492
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:52,559
players wanting to role play players

1493
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:53,520
wanting to think of clever ways out i i

1494
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:55,280
think that's

1495
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,960
that's an important evolution of the

1496
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,440
game i think that's yeah

1497
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,359
that's really good in that sense

1498
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,280
but then realizing that sometimes

1499
00:52:01,359 --> 00:52:05,359
there's no choice you know i think that

1500
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:07,440
then making that decision and

1501
00:52:05,359 --> 00:52:09,599
and using the tools that they have

1502
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:12,240
i i have really been kind of uh

1503
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:14,880
interested in seeing uh how role-playing

1504
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:17,680
games are moving more towards that

1505
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:20,000
kind of role-playing aspect and and

1506
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:22,640
it's difficult because the uh

1507
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,520
how do you put mechanics on

1508
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,839
role-playing or social skills you don't

1509
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:30,160
want to you know you don't want to say i

1510
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:32,400
seduce the guard

1511
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:34,960
roller d20 yeah you're basically saying

1512
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:38,240
like you acted as a human being poorly

1513
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:40,000
you know in a way which is weird to hear

1514
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:43,200
yeah

1515
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:46,160
so uh yeah i mean it's it's it's good to

1516
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:48,960
see more of those uh happening and as i

1517
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:51,680
said i i'm i'm going to be investigating

1518
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,920
that more to certain yeah certainly kind

1519
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:56,319
of the the the students who are

1520
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:58,720
attracted to dungeons and dragons or

1521
00:52:56,319 --> 00:53:01,760
role-playing games are the the nerdy

1522
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:03,760
ones and so social skills i i know quite

1523
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,760
a few um

1524
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:09,040
yeah a lot of what i see online in terms

1525
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:11,040
of using uh practical uh use of role

1526
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,480
playing games is uh to teach those

1527
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,520
social skills

1528
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:17,839
um as i was saying before but um

1529
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:20,800
actually trying to write

1530
00:53:17,839 --> 00:53:23,200
scenarios and write adventures where

1531
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,800
they have to employ those things

1532
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,960
is much more interesting i think yeah

1533
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,800
that's that's going to be yeah and

1534
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,640
hit those learning outcomes from from a

1535
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,559
social skills aspect that's that's quite

1536
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,480
tough yeah no i i imagine like

1537
00:53:32,559 --> 00:53:37,200
architecting those in a way that are you

1538
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:39,839
know effective and meaningful is well

1539
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:42,480
way outside of my area of uh

1540
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:43,920
of expertise um so yeah i can imagine

1541
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,680
that's where the you know the gold mine

1542
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,440
is of of those

1543
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,520
social encounters and i i mean i fit a

1544
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,800
stereotype for sure i certainly when i

1545
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,280
was younger i don't like sports still

1546
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,880
don't like sports sports for chumps um

1547
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,359
but also uh

1548
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,720
being nerdy uh but hey look at me now

1549
00:53:57,359 --> 00:54:00,559
i'm like

1550
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:03,040
handsome and charming modest so i guess

1551
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:04,640
it's uh you know obviously

1552
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,240
the proof is in the pudding

1553
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,680
um is that is there anything you wanted

1554
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:08,800
to talk about that we we haven't quite

1555
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,839
covered yet

1556
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:13,599
um i would say that

1557
00:54:11,839 --> 00:54:14,480
something i want to write about as well

1558
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:15,760
is

1559
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,280
i think that

1560
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,359
role-playing games

1561
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,359
i know that parents can be incredibly

1562
00:54:19,359 --> 00:54:23,440
busy but i think that

1563
00:54:21,359 --> 00:54:25,520
it is a yeah uh

1564
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,000
one of the best things that parents can

1565
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:30,079
do with their children obviously not

1566
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,640
force them don't force them to do it but

1567
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:34,079
uh if you certainly if you enjoy it then

1568
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,079
you know actually i wrote this kind of

1569
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:38,160
just recently don't force your children

1570
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:39,520
to do it play with your friends let your

1571
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,200
children watch when you're playing with

1572
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,119
their children they're naturally curious

1573
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,640
they'll want to play with you

1574
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:47,280
but one of the best things that parents

1575
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:50,960
can be doing with their children is

1576
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:53,440
playing role-playing games because

1577
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:56,640
i i remember my parents certainly my mom

1578
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:59,119
was incredibly worried about one or two

1579
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:01,119
friends i made as being bad influences i

1580
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:02,319
mean this is normal chinese parents to

1581
00:55:01,119 --> 00:55:04,319
be honest with you in fact this is

1582
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:06,480
normal any parents kind of like that

1583
00:55:04,319 --> 00:55:07,760
person is a bad influence for you yeah

1584
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,000
um

1585
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,760
and you know and i see it in the yeah

1586
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,760
kind of the boarding house where the the

1587
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,960
yeah kind of i mean some of the the boys

1588
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,119
in the boarding house are you know

1589
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:20,640
incredibly yeah well-mannered and

1590
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:24,319
well-behaved and you know kind of um but

1591
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:28,160
actually i had this yeah uh one boy who

1592
00:55:24,319 --> 00:55:31,040
was quite a devout muslim boy and

1593
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,799
so one of the students decided dm and we

1594
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,799
were heading through this little village

1595
00:55:32,799 --> 00:55:36,400
you know listeners will probably know

1596
00:55:34,799 --> 00:55:38,480
you know what uh adventure i'm talking

1597
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,359
about but uh we are trying to avoid

1598
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:44,480
these cultists uh and these i think the

1599
00:55:41,359 --> 00:55:46,240
kobolds this occult the dragon

1600
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,400
and we have these villagers with us and

1601
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,799
we're trying to get to the central keep

1602
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:53,040
and the the village was yeah the town

1603
00:55:50,799 --> 00:55:54,559
was on fire and these houses weren't dry

1604
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,680
and we were creeping from house to house

1605
00:55:54,559 --> 00:56:00,799
to try and you know avoid the patrols of

1606
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:03,440
uh these cultists anyway one of the this

1607
00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:06,240
this boy who is a really you know nice

1608
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,160
sweet boy uh he said

1609
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:10,880
i'm gonna loot the house

1610
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:12,400
and i was playing as a paladin and i was

1611
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,440
kind of like i didn't want to kind of

1612
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,599
put my

1613
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,839
i don't know then i started roleplaying

1614
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:21,040
it's just like what are you doing the

1615
00:56:17,839 --> 00:56:22,799
villagers are right there yeah yeah

1616
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,799
what are they gonna do if we're looting

1617
00:56:22,799 --> 00:56:26,160
their house but he his mind was but it's

1618
00:56:24,799 --> 00:56:28,400
burning down anyway it's gonna get

1619
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,640
destroyed anyway and he didn't see that

1620
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:33,119
connects there

1621
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:35,040
and kind of it took quite a

1622
00:56:33,119 --> 00:56:36,640
while for me to argue and convince him

1623
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,480
that this was a bad thing to do that

1624
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,400
they yeah either they would run away

1625
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,680
from us because we're just looters or

1626
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,119
they would attack us because we're

1627
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,680
looting their houses

1628
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:47,839
you know for him it was because he was

1629
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:49,599
very much in a video game mentality it's

1630
00:56:47,839 --> 00:56:51,440
just like stuff is there i'm gonna loot

1631
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:53,760
him he's gonna destroy anyway so i'm

1632
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,359
gonna loot it but again in reality i'm

1633
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,960
sure he would never do that because he's

1634
00:56:55,359 --> 00:56:58,960
such a sweet boy

1635
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,599
but it's it's weird because

1636
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:04,559
it then opens up those opportunities

1637
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:06,240
kind of for parents to be talking to

1638
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:07,280
their their children

1639
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:09,839
about

1640
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:12,240
morality about ethics about kind of the

1641
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:14,480
way they go about things about the life

1642
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:16,960
decisions they make it'll open up these

1643
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:19,680
but also they'll get to know their that

1644
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:21,599
yeah when you play with somebody

1645
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,799
and i i think you find this i'm sure you

1646
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:25,599
find this with your

1647
00:57:22,799 --> 00:57:28,000
players you know them so much more

1648
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:30,720
deeply in terms of their the choices

1649
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,640
they make the kind of the moral choices

1650
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,720
especially and yes sometimes they're

1651
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,520
role-playing i've got this this one

1652
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:39,760
player who was in my my game who

1653
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:41,280
kind of he really would embody body the

1654
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:43,520
character and do things that were very

1655
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:45,680
out of character of him which i i found

1656
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,200
amazing uh and that's as

1657
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,599
amazing as a player

1658
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,839
but otherwise generally you learn a lot

1659
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:53,359
about your your players just the way

1660
00:57:51,839 --> 00:57:56,160
they interact with each other the way

1661
00:57:53,359 --> 00:57:57,839
you can yeah as you said rely on them or

1662
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:00,480
not rely on them

1663
00:57:57,839 --> 00:58:03,839
but uh yeah imagine now being a kind of

1664
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:04,799
like a parent and you know seeing

1665
00:58:03,839 --> 00:58:06,799
actually

1666
00:58:04,799 --> 00:58:09,440
this is something that parents

1667
00:58:06,799 --> 00:58:11,119
can only see just generally

1668
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,799
but when they play role-playing games

1669
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:14,480
with their children they'll see so much

1670
00:58:12,799 --> 00:58:16,640
more deeply and they'll open up those

1671
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,720
avenues for conversation about

1672
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:21,119
those things and i i think that's that's

1673
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,960
incredibly important and powerful

1674
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:25,040
yeah thank you so much and we've put a

1675
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,960
nice bookend there because we've talked

1676
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,760
and started a lot about

1677
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,520
you know

1678
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,280
it being an educational vehicle for the

1679
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,799
players and and the you know the

1680
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,839
students and whatnot and we've ended

1681
00:58:32,799 --> 00:58:36,400
with

1682
00:58:33,839 --> 00:58:37,839
how the dm can learn something about

1683
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,240
other people and stuff so it's a very

1684
00:58:37,839 --> 00:58:42,559
nice oh yeah very very wholesome

1685
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:45,200
uh closed loop so thank you very much

1686
00:58:42,559 --> 00:58:47,040
for this for this chat today sam well

1687
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,040
thank you again for having me it's uh

1688
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,960
it's been great uh is there anything you

1689
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:54,319
would like to promote

1690
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,920
so i am actually i have a podcast that

1691
00:58:54,319 --> 00:58:58,319
i'm going to launch in the next couple

1692
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:00,319
of weeks it is just a few interviews

1693
00:58:58,319 --> 00:59:03,040
with uh educators

1694
00:59:00,319 --> 00:59:05,520
other than that i you can find me online

1695
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:07,280
on facebook and twitter mainly as the

1696
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,119
educational dm

1697
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,960
and i mean it's

1698
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:13,040
yeah it's a lot of dm stuff but it's a

1699
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:15,280
lot yeah it's a lot of educational stuff

1700
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,480
as well so um

1701
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,520
that is something you might want to go

1702
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:22,559
and have a look at my blog articles

1703
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,920
which are mostly about education and how

1704
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:27,040
dnd

1705
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:29,520
either can be used for education or

1706
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:32,079
is educational is is on

1707
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:34,240
dumpsterventures.com

1708
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:36,079
so just search that out dump stat

1709
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,079
adventures and you'll come up with a

1710
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:40,160
blog and you know i write an article

1711
00:59:38,079 --> 00:59:41,359
maybe once every couple of months when i

1712
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,040
get the time

1713
00:59:41,359 --> 00:59:44,880
but yeah that's uh

1714
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,960
yeah i've got so much to say but just

1715
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:49,839
not enough time to say it yeah that's

1716
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:51,040
always always the way yeah yeah i mean

1717
00:59:49,839 --> 00:59:54,000
most of what you want to say is you know

1718
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,960
ragging on the hobbit so yeah

1719
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,000
yes

1720
00:59:54,960 --> 01:00:01,040
oh what a terrible phil

1721
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,040
sorry i don't mean to trigger

1722
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,160
uh by the time this episode comes out i

1723
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:10,880
imagine your podcast is probably full

1724
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:12,400
steam ahead anyway so as usual we'll put

1725
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,640
all the links in the description please

1726
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:18,160
do check it out it's been such a such a

1727
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:20,640
fun and an interesting and dare i say

1728
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:22,559
educational chat today so yeah all

1729
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,640
that's left for me to say is again

1730
01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:27,040
thank you once more sam it's been it's

1731
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:29,119
been super fun and super interesting so

1732
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,440
yep thank you thanks again well sorry

1733
01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:33,280
again thank you it's uh it has been fun

1734
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,520
it's it's good to to talk about these

1735
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:37,119
things i just yeah in some ways i can't

1736
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,799
stop talking about these things

1737
01:00:37,119 --> 01:00:42,319
um and actually i'm going to be back in

1738
01:00:38,799 --> 01:00:44,559
the uk in the you know uh next year from

1739
01:00:42,319 --> 01:00:45,920
september so who knows i might pop down

1740
01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:48,319
to southampton

1741
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:50,880
sunny southampton that's uh amazing

1742
01:00:48,319 --> 01:00:54,720
let's get a drink so yeah yeah yeah for

1743
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:57,920
sure uh some some health beer maybe

1744
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:59,760
yes exactly yeah somehow oh beer to me

1745
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,839
it's health beer oh god that sounds bad

1746
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:04,000
anyway moving up there

1747
01:01:01,839 --> 01:01:06,960
thank you again thank you everybody for

1748
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:09,119
listening at home please check out all

1749
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,640
the sam's stuff and also please check

1750
01:01:09,119 --> 01:01:12,400
out all of my stuff drop a review if

1751
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,880
you've enjoyed today's episode

1752
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:17,839
otherwise thank you all for listening

1753
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,839
and good night

1754
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,920
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1755
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:24,480
outs once again thank you to matt street

1756
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:26,480
at mpstreet88 on twitter for supporting

1757
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,400
the show if you need support running

1758
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,640
your personal or business schedule head

1759
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,839
to

1760
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,520
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1761
01:01:31,839 --> 01:01:35,680
make that difference between should do

1762
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,520
and done boss it better with support

1763
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,839
from cat who will help you get back that

1764
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:41,280
essential time you've been searching for

1765
01:01:39,839 --> 01:01:43,119
if you would like to support what we do

1766
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,920
and get four shout outs a month head

1767
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:47,440
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1768
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:50,079
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1769
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,680
kofi.com thinking critically

1770
01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:53,920
and because it's christmas eve i wanted

1771
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,359
to wish you all a very merry christmas

1772
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:57,760
no matter where you are what you're

1773
01:01:55,359 --> 01:02:00,400
doing i hope you have a very lovely time

1774
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,920
celebrating with those closest to you

1775
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,440
once again just you listening to the

1776
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,039
show is a good enough christmas present

1777
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:07,440
for me so

1778
01:02:05,039 --> 01:02:09,920
however saying that you can now leave

1779
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,599
five star well any ratings but you know

1780
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,680
five star would be nice

1781
01:02:11,599 --> 01:02:15,200
directly on the spotify app so if you

1782
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,680
really wanted to give me a lovely

1783
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:20,480
christmas present you could go and drop

1784
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:23,200
me a nice little uh five star rating on

1785
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:24,079
spotify or whatever rating you think is

1786
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,440
fit

1787
01:02:24,079 --> 01:02:30,000
and do keep your ears open for the next

1788
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:32,160
episode which is dropping on

1789
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,839
new year's eve this year

1790
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:36,240
uh that is the one to take us out of

1791
01:02:33,839 --> 01:02:40,760
2021 so look forward to that one guys

1792
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,760
and i will see you then goodbye

1793
01:02:40,940 --> 01:02:52,889
[Applause]

1794
01:02:48,850 --> 01:02:52,889
[Music]

1795
01:02:55,130 --> 01:03:04,659
[Music]

Sam Cheung

Educational DM

I have been a maths teacher for over 20 years, and a roleplaying gamer for much longer (since about 1985). About 6 years ago I started playing D&D with my students and realised what a powerful educational tool I had on my hands. Since then I've been promoting the educational aspects of D&D and TTRPGs. I write blog articles, am active on social media and am just about to launch my podcast.