March 4, 2022

Consequences


This episode I'm joined by Rev from The CritShow, the Powered by the Apocalypse podcast, to talk about the consequences of our actions. We agree that any consequence, positive or negative, must fit the the scale and scope of the inciting activity. This can be achieved by a sliding scale; it doesn't always have to be The Worst Possible Outcome for any given misstep. An element of PbtA games is how the GM can work with the players to build that shared narrative, something explicitly missing from D&D 5e. But with this collaborative approach to consequences, a larger degree of trust is required to ensure both the GM and the players are effectively working together for the benefit of the table. Of course, actions don't stop in-game, and there must also be considerations made for IRL actions, for better and for worse. Rev & I discuss some tools and tactics for dealing with potential misaligned and misguided players.

  • 00:58 - Consequential Collaboration Slide
  • 11:02 - Well if it Isn't the Consequences...
  • 36:05 - Of My Own Actions
  • 46:05 - To Err is Human

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Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 19

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of thinking critically today's topic is

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consequences

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by brandon aka rev

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from the crit show thank you ever so

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much for joining us today rev can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself i am

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the host and gm of the crit show which

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is an actual play podcast

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where we play monster of the week and

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other powered by the apocalypse games

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all within the same dimension-hopping

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narrative

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amazing well today's topic should be

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very

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relevant i guess

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in that it is

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consequences

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so

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what does that mean to you in the

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wider ttrpg framework

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yeah so you know a lot of the stuff that

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we play is

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powered by the apocalypse fate things

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like that and

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consequences

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are scaled so drastically just in the

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format of the roles of those games you

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know when you're when you're playing

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powered by the apocalypse for example

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you know you roll 2d6 and a 7 to 9 is a

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mix success meaning that you get what

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you want but there's also a complication

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there's a consequence for it and then a

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six and under is just a fail there's a

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huge consequence

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and so

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consequences ever since we started our

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show and i've noticed how much it's

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filtered over just kind of into my home

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games

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have become so important in the sense of

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the scope of them it kind of makes me

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think of if you're familiar with the

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mikado or they talk about let the

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punishment fit the crime

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that you know the size of the

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consequences got to be

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proportionate to

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the size of the thing that they were

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attempting to do

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in those systems and part of my

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ignorance you'll have to educate me a

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little bit in in those systems

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when there is

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you know either a minor or a major

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mishap for lack of a better term

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hey i love that kind of micro

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moment-to-moment improvisation required

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of the the gm yeah my question is is

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that

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you know the the the only ones of the

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the gm to

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think of those

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consequences in that you know very short

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period of time and if so

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how do you do it

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um i really think it comes down to

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your group and your table

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you know i've played at games where

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it is up to the gm to come up with those

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you know mixed successes but there are

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also times where i've played in games

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where the gm is like okay so you know

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they're trying to do this it is

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successful you know um because intent is

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so important in this it's like you know

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if you're trying to

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run out the door

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and close the door before a monster gets

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through it it's like okay so what's your

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main focus is it getting out the door

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first ahead of the rest of the group is

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it closing the door securely like what

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is it and they're like okay well it's

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it's to make sure everybody's out and to

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close the door

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like to make sure everyone's out before

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i close the door yeah it's like okay so

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on a mixed success that's the minimum

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thing you do accomplish

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but here's the consequence to it and so

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sometimes the gm will open it up to the

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table like okay so what do we think

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like what could be some possible

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ramifications here like oh well the

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creature slams hard against the door it

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starts to crack so it's not going to

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hold long

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or you know as you all rush through

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someone trips and their hand hits the

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fire alarm

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and

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you know that a bunch of people like

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innocent people now are going to be

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called here like a bunch of firefighters

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are going to show up yeah

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for me in our podcast i actually have

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gotten into the format and part of it

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because i think i

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kind of read the rules incorrectly the

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first time we played

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but in a mixed success it says that

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there is uh you know it comes at a cost

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a price to pay or a sacrifice or

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something to that effect yeah and i

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thought it was saying

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all three of them oh so i was giving the

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player three options like okay either

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this is gonna be the way it is this is

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the way or this is the way which one do

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you think

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and it's kind of become

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something i really like doing and

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the way that i come up with them is i

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just try to imagine myself in that

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situation in the moment you know if i'm

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trying to climb up a rope to escape from

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you know this this creature below

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and i feel myself slip and fall it's

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like oh i want to i want to try to catch

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myself

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well if i was in that situation what are

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some things that could happen to me well

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i could catch myself and like rip up my

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hands

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or i could catch myself and like some

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stuff in my pockets is gonna fall out or

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i catch myself and like that rope starts

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to fray and it's not gonna hold long so

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i have to find something else to climb

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on to

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and so i i always try to put myself

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in the shoes of the player who's just

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tried to do something and and think

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about like okay what's the like what

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options make sense and then i do let

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them choose between the three options

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that i give them of of what is the the

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slight failure there

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yeah that's a nice double-edged sword of

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player agency like you've given you a

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choice but obviously

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there's no winning choices

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yeah it's like this is not going to go

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well but in what way do you feel the

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most comfortable with it not going well

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yeah yeah i know i also loved where you

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mentioned there that sometimes it is a

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collaborative effort you know to come up

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with those ideas and that really

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that is the real definition of

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collaborative storytelling that gets

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that term gets banded around a lot for d

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but nine times out of ten it's well it

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might say nine times out of ten the

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second page of the player's handbook

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says the dm narrates the consequences of

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the results of those actions so

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and that totes itself is collaborative

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storytelling but in a way it's kind of

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pulling its punches a little bit because

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it isn't because it says there on the

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second page the dm tells you what the

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outcome is whereas what you've described

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is like

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true

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collaborative storytelling and that the

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players get a hand in not only the

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actions but also the outcomes the

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consequences of those actions which i

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really

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love i'm a bit scared of like the trust

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level required there there's got to be

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another layer of like

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maturity and trust

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on top to be able to like

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oh i i broke a nail when i was you know

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when when you're climbing up the cliff

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and then the gm has to be well that's

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not really a hit

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yeah

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that that's not really a consequence for

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uh not climbing very well uh unless your

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nails are magical weapons that can hurt

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people then yeah but

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yeah and what i really enjoy about it is

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that

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it really pulls you away from you know

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there's this this really old mindset um

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depending on the kinds of games you've

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played and the kinds of game masters

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you've played with of the us versus them

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[Music]

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and

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you know i i totally get that is some

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people they love that that's totally

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fine but i am a big fan of the hey we're

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working together to tell a story and

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yeah i'm gonna say some things i'm gonna

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make some decisions that are gonna be

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hard on you or rough on your character

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or whatever but it is all

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in the in the intent of telling this

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really compelling narrative between all

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of us

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yeah and that that is that

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space there is a tricky one to build

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into and to really build that comfort

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and confidence with your players to not

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yeah take the take the piss and

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and then just you know trust them to

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build you that story and

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often it's

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you know that is absolutely like a

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session zero kind of thing you know the

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game like this is the kind of game that

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i want to play is when we're we're

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building it all together whereas

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i think i think one i play is

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a little bit of column a and a little

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bit column b

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a lot of my players uh would prefer to

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be

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excluded from the consequence decision

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making in a sense that although i am

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only human and to err is human and i am

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in no way free of any bias i am still

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somewhat as the dm of my campaign a

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objective

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at least intended to be

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an objective power so by removing

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the the players decisions from from the

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outcome i think they prefer to be like

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they can trust me at least which is a

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position of responsibility yeah and with

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you know these types of games

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you get that element of it when it comes

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to the full

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failure like a six and under

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triggers what in those games they call a

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hard move by the game master and so

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those are things usually that

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are

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plot relevant or

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monster relevant or whatever

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that

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i have thought up ahead of time or make

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sense in the moment that you know they

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they just get the ramification of it

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they don't really have the

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uh the same level of input as they do on

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those mixed successes

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well that's where that's where the fun

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lies in the mix successes you know that

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that's where it's it's cool to work with

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them because it is that middle ground of

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like oh let's have some fun here let's

272
00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:29,839
there's there's wiggle room

273
00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,839
right it isn't like

274
00:09:29,839 --> 00:09:34,480
this is super bad now it's like that's a

275
00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:36,000
little bit bad but let's work out yeah

276
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,519
you still got what you want but yeah not

277
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,839
quite how you wanted it

278
00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:41,680
yeah yeah that is interesting and

279
00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:42,480
i think it's a failing of and uh you

280
00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:44,800
know

281
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,720
excuse me for falling back on my my d d

282
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,240
expertise here but that's the

283
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,480
one of the points of today's discussion

284
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,839
is to see where it it differs and the

285
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,360
similarities and the differences with

286
00:09:51,839 --> 00:09:56,800
other systems but i think that's a

287
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,080
failing of dnd is i think at some point

288
00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,320
somewhere probably in the dungeon

289
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,160
master's guide it will say like

290
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,560
have a sliding scale for you know

291
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,640
success in binary it isn't just you meet

292
00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:09,360
the dc you can you can have a sliding dc

293
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,800
scale yeah but it's never

294
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,480
you know for a newbie who's just picked

295
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,120
up lost mines or the starter kit or

296
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,040
something that isn't it is

297
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,440
probably going to be a very binary like

298
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,600
well the dc says 15 and they hit 14 they

299
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,480
didn't do what they're gonna do and yeah

300
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,760
it's a shame in a way i'd i'd prefer it

301
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,480
to be a little bit more baked into the

302
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,880
fundamental mechanics that idea of

303
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,640
a scale a success scale

304
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,800
yeah like this oh this knowledge check's

305
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,279
really difficult it's a 27. oh you get a

306
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,880
26 you know nothing it's like

307
00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:41,279
well there's got to be some stuff they

308
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,120
know right yeah yeah

309
00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:45,120
when you put it like that it's so like

310
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,959
hilariously obvious that like such a

311
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,720
high roller 26 and they're like now

312
00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:50,560
you're dumbfounded you've never read

313
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,959
this relatively common language before

314
00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:54,399
in your life

315
00:10:52,959 --> 00:10:56,240
what are these weird symbols made on

316
00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:58,320
this piece of paper oh it's just a

317
00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,800
coffee menu right okay

318
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,800
one away

319
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,839
so

320
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,640
one of the things that i thought about

321
00:11:05,839 --> 00:11:09,519
when

322
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:12,640
preparing for today's discussion was

323
00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:13,920
all of those memes you see about like oh

324
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,600
how was i to know there was going to be

325
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:19,120
consequences for my actions yeah oh no

326
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,000
look what it is it's the consequences of

327
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,800
my actions um which i love because it's

328
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,880
so

329
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,959
you know it's funny because it's true

330
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,519
and i think more so with ttrpgs when you

331
00:11:26,959 --> 00:11:31,120
have the surprise pikachu face players

332
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:32,160
that are like oh

333
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,320
snap

334
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,079
that thing i did is now biting me in the

335
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,800
backside

336
00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:39,680
and

337
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,920
i have to say one of the allures of

338
00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:44,320
jamming for new players is watching that

339
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,959
penny drop like penny drop moments in

340
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,640
any discipline in any area or any

341
00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:50,560
profession are always

342
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,160
wonderful things to to witness that's

343
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:54,720
why teaching is a thing that people like

344
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:57,279
to do because it's the thrill of

345
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,920
watching the light bulb go and that is

346
00:11:57,279 --> 00:12:02,240
the ttrpg equivalent of

347
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:05,600
when you see people be like ah yes i'm

348
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,600
not playing dragon age anymore okay

349
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,320
that moment is great and one of the ways

350
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:13,200
you can get to that moment is through

351
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,920
consequences of the the player actions

352
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,160
so

353
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,760
i don't know whether you have any any

354
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,839
thoughts now or any particularly

355
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,079
pertinent examples of

356
00:12:19,839 --> 00:12:25,600
those light bulb moments

357
00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:27,920
yeah you know we um as a group we run a

358
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,600
lot of powered by the apocalypse games

359
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,040
at conventions

360
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,160
and

361
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,839
i would say

362
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,440
well probably 80 percent of the time

363
00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:36,959
it's people who have never played one

364
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,720
before but they've heard about one and

365
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:40,160
so they want to get a chance to do it

366
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,720
and so

367
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:45,200
first you have that step of oh yeah so

368
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,279
you you've kind of failed this thing

369
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,519
how do you think you failed it and you

370
00:12:47,279 --> 00:12:52,480
get that moment of is this a is this a

371
00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:54,079
trick why are you asking me how i detect

372
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,279
yeah

373
00:12:54,079 --> 00:12:59,680
um but then once you get to

374
00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:01,519
like the only notes i really take is a

375
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,480
gm like if you were to look behind my

376
00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:05,920
screen

377
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,920
it's mostly just random pen marks yeah

378
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,279
because you know i don't need a whole

379
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,000
lot to

380
00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:14,000
to run the story that i'm doing but i do

381
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,600
want to take notes of

382
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,200
those little things that come up you

383
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,120
know oh yeah we pulled into the parking

384
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,320
lot here as we went in and

385
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,760
you know we noticed that there was

386
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,200
someone in the parking lot so we made

387
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,480
sure to park

388
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,320
right next to them because they weren't

389
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,399
parked correctly in the lines and just

390
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,079
kind of pissed me off and so then later

391
00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:31,839
like when there's a complication like oh

392
00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:33,200
yeah you go out you you know you're all

393
00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:34,720
trying to escape from this place you've

394
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,959
set off the fire alarm you gotta get out

395
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,279
of here and you notice that one of your

396
00:13:36,959 --> 00:13:41,279
tires is slashed and there's a note on

397
00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:43,360
your car

398
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:45,600
and it says thanks for parking so close

399
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,399
you know finding ways to

400
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:50,480
to lead those consequences or to rather

401
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:52,880
to pull those consequences from the

402
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,560
things that they have set up is one of

403
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,839
my favorite things so that you never

404
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:57,680
feel like you're getting struck out of

405
00:13:55,839 --> 00:14:00,720
left field

406
00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:02,560
yeah as a player you mean yeah yeah yeah

407
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,399
yeah exactly and again that that ties

408
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,720
back nicely into that whole

409
00:14:04,399 --> 00:14:08,079
trust piece and the the

410
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,079
difference between them versus us

411
00:14:08,079 --> 00:14:11,680
gameplay because

412
00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:13,279
in that instance

413
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,959
of them versus me versus them or

414
00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:16,880
whatever it is the players are very

415
00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:18,959
reticent to ever make themselves

416
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,120
vulnerable so in that example they would

417
00:14:18,959 --> 00:14:23,040
have been no i spend

418
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,880
another minute backing back out and

419
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,199
reversing you know pulling back in the

420
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,920
bay making sure i'm six inches from the

421
00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:31,839
line either side nice good that's not

422
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,000
going to come and hit me later

423
00:14:31,839 --> 00:14:36,560
so here whereas in in this collaborative

424
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,199
storytelling version again you can trust

425
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,279
the players to put their characters in

426
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:44,560
more vulnerable situations by

427
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:47,680
making suboptimal decisions or by saying

428
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,680
or doing foolish things that can be you

429
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,760
know misconstrued by the npcs or

430
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,839
whatever it may be and likewise they can

431
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,320
trust you into not hitting them out of

432
00:14:53,839 --> 00:14:57,920
their field or just completely whipping

433
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,839
the rug out from under them and be like

434
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,040
yeah

435
00:14:59,839 --> 00:15:02,480
when you know when they parked outside

436
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,920
of the bay you open the door and as you

437
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,040
turn the ignition a bomb goes off

438
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,480
because

439
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:10,160
like slashing the tires makes sense but

440
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,160
someone was so pissed you parked outside

441
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,079
the bay they did this that's just like

442
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,920
that doesn't make any sense gm and now

443
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:16,800
we're not having fun so i love that and

444
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,880
then

445
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,040
that trust is is very much a two-way

446
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,959
street is not just

447
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,040
the gm trust in the players it is the

448
00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:28,160
players having to trust the gm as well

449
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:30,160
to make things make sense and to be like

450
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,480
no that's fair that slash tire is

451
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,000
completely fair and deserved

452
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,340
and it makes sense because the world

453
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,880
feels alive thanks gm

454
00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:38,399
[Laughter]

455
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,399
well and i think too that you know

456
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:43,279
something that's that's really important

457
00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:45,759
narratively and it's something that you

458
00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:47,759
know you kind of bump into when you play

459
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:49,199
uh you know pathfinder or dungeons and

460
00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:50,240
dragons

461
00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:51,920
that

462
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,480
just because you fail just because

463
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:57,360
there's a consequence to your action it

464
00:15:54,480 --> 00:16:00,079
doesn't mean that it's not still badass

465
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,079
yeah like you can fail in a really cool

466
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:04,639
way as opposed to like oh yeah you

467
00:16:02,079 --> 00:16:06,079
didn't hit the ac so you miss like

468
00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:07,519
that's not an interesting thing to

469
00:16:06,079 --> 00:16:09,519
describe but

470
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:11,120
you know if it's if they fail on an

471
00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:12,800
attack you know and monster of the week

472
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,880
against a creature it's like oh yeah you

473
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,639
run up and you jam the sword down onto

474
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,639
it and you realize as you get close that

475
00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:21,519
its flesh is really

476
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:23,519
craggy and part of the blade breaks off

477
00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:25,920
you can tell this thing has such a thick

478
00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:28,560
skin that your sword just can't

479
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,839
penetrate it and so you still give them

480
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,680
a cool cinematic moment it's not like oh

481
00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:35,040
yeah you trip and fall

482
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,880
you're bad at this

483
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,759
you still make them feel

484
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,800
cool in their consequences

485
00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:43,759
mm-hmm

486
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,839
which is a tricky thing to do as a dm or

487
00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:48,639
put it in other ways not a professional

488
00:16:45,839 --> 00:16:50,720
improviser it is

489
00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:53,120
hard to

490
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,000
come up with those unique things like

491
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,480
consist on a consistent basis oh yeah at

492
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,240
a high level like throughout all the

493
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,639
kinds of interactions and times that

494
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,160
things can go bad it's not so bad when

495
00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:05,839
you're playing a system that has levels

496
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,799
and the characters at lower levels

497
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,720
because

498
00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:10,799
it's more feasible for them to you slip

499
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,640
on the banana skin whoops haha slapstick

500
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:14,079
comedy that's fine that makes sense

501
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,600
today

502
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,760
one yeah exactly but then when they're

503
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,600
like level 10 and slinging you know

504
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,199
swinging from rafters and

505
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,360
firing fireballs and stuff on the rare

506
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:24,400
occasion where they do

507
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:25,600
fail

508
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,000
quite bad

509
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,520
it's really incongruent to be like oh

510
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,280
you slipped and fell on your bum well

511
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,440
hang on i've been

512
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,200
i've been a master acrobat now for like

513
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,200
50 years like

514
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,080
that would never happen

515
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,600
yeah

516
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,080
and it makes my makes my cool character

517
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,200
look stupid cool yeah

518
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,320
yeah i was listening to something

519
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,160
earlier where someone had failed a a

520
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,679
relatively simple role and and the game

521
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,360
master was like why do you like what

522
00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:52,720
goes wrong here

523
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,080
and they were like oh you know when we

524
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,919
walked in there was all this smoke in

525
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,440
the air and i think it's not just smoke

526
00:17:55,919 --> 00:17:59,039
like i think someone is burning

527
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,360
something and

528
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:03,360
it's it's getting into my system that

529
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,960
it's it's clouding my thoughts and i

530
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,880
think that i try to do this spell and it

531
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,880
just doesn't like i don't have all the

532
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,960
pieces at the forefront of my brain

533
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,720
because of this smoke and so you know

534
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,640
giving them the chance to like okay

535
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,240
again why do you think this went wrong

536
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,480
like we know it went wrong that's what

537
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,160
the dice have told us yeah but we don't

538
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,679
know narratively why it went wrong like

539
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,600
what do you think

540
00:18:21,679 --> 00:18:25,840
yeah i'm i'm gonna

541
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,440
try and float that idea to my players

542
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,400
next time i'm very happy with this

543
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,760
learning moment for me now

544
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,080
next time we play it you'll be a week

545
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,039
away if if an opportunity presents

546
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,440
itself

547
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:39,679
i might be like hey let's you know i

548
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,799
can't be the only improvisational you

549
00:18:39,679 --> 00:18:43,760
know creative font here let's open it to

550
00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:46,000
the floor

551
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,480
what would be a funny and interesting

552
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,400
way here to to see yeah see what happens

553
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,480
when it does it shares the workload too

554
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,840
because you know if you go back and if

555
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,400
you listen to

556
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,960
our show where i'm generating these

557
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,200
um you know in our first two seasons you

558
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,400
know they they can't all be gems

559
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,559
it's you know sometimes they're like

560
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,280
okay they're sneaking out a hallway

561
00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:08,960
and uh oh you failed this role

562
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,280
yeah you you you know you bend over to

563
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,480
tie your shoe and you guys talked about

564
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,080
eating all the way here you just fart

565
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,080
really loudly in the hallway and all of

566
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,000
a sudden your stealth is blown and it's

567
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,919
you know okay that one's not cool but i

568
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,440
got a good laugh out of them so it's

569
00:19:19,919 --> 00:19:22,559
also about knowing your group and like

570
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,919
what's the

571
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:28,080
the mix of you know humor versus

572
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:29,919
in character story

573
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,200
um what's that balance of the

574
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:33,840
consequences

575
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,960
yeah it ha see this is this is why i

576
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,240
love

577
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,280
ttlpgs and this show is is to hopefully

578
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,520
highlight

579
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,240
that it is

580
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,919
hard like micromanaging that balance for

581
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,840
everybody you know just the gm for the

582
00:19:45,919 --> 00:19:49,919
players are just as responsible

583
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,520
micromanaging that balance in any given

584
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:53,200
situation is

585
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,840
is a very

586
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,760
tricky thing and a very practicable

587
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,520
skill like you can

588
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,360
you can get better at it

589
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,039
but yeah just just

590
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,240
knowing when you know when's too far

591
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:07,120
when you need to pull back when you need

592
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,039
to push forward is you know in terms of

593
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:11,200
like narrative fluff and is a fart going

594
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:13,679
to be here good here is it going to be

595
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,640
you know pure aisle here and then right

596
00:20:13,679 --> 00:20:16,159
is

597
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,840
again comes with experience comes with

598
00:20:16,159 --> 00:20:20,480
knowledge comes with ownership to a

599
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,640
certain extent but i'm very much behind

600
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,159
that idea of kind of sharing the load

601
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,120
and again i don't want to turn this into

602
00:20:24,159 --> 00:20:27,760
like

603
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,520
oh isn't the poor gm hard life's hard

604
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,039
he's got to do all this work which is

605
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,080
which is why i'm saying like no the

606
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:34,159
players

607
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,559
have that burden as well but yeah

608
00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:39,360
certainly the way i still play in in

609
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:40,880
that as i said i tend to do most of the

610
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,240
the flavor narration the players have

611
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,520
the opportunity to do so some of my

612
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,480
players are not really bothered by it oh

613
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,760
and just say i hit it with my great

614
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,559
sword i hit it with my grey sword which

615
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:51,360
is fine um but otherwise it's down to me

616
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:52,640
and yeah absolutely it's draining

617
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,400
you know and and you're at the end

618
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,039
you're just you know you're operating on

619
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,600
fumes and it does just come down to

620
00:20:57,039 --> 00:21:01,440
you hit it with a sword a little bit

621
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:05,039
different from the side because i've

622
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:07,120
used every synonym for harry

623
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:09,280
yeah in the last four hours of play that

624
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:11,039
i've just my brain just said no no more

625
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:15,320
words for you danilo you can just say

626
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:15,320
the sword hits the other sword

627
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,760
so one of the one of the main

628
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:25,600
things that often gets discussed hand in

629
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:28,400
hand with consequences is the idea of

630
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:31,280
murder hoboism as i am i'm coining it

631
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:34,240
and i'm not sure how much of a big deal

632
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,320
it is in the systems that you play and

633
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,400
also i'm not frankly sure how much of

634
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,000
really a big deal it is in

635
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,559
games that you play

636
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,480
with people you know i have a sneaky

637
00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:46,880
suspicion the guy's telling me it's more

638
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,600
of an issue with pickup groups and

639
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,120
randoms however saying that that's the

640
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,440
archetypical like

641
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:54,960
the players have gone and doing some

642
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,159
stuff which is just

643
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,600
immoral amoral bad within the universe

644
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:00,799
whatever however you want to describe it

645
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,200
and that is the classic one that says

646
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,640
well you know i i could be i'd be a rich

647
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,000
man if i had a pound for every time

648
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,919
every thread i've seen every comment

649
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,240
i've seen that's like how do i

650
00:22:07,919 --> 00:22:12,080
deal with this they murdered the

651
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,039
merchant in the middle of his village

652
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,720
and

653
00:22:13,039 --> 00:22:16,559
hey that always strikes me as an

654
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,200
interesting question

655
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:20,559
meta in a way because

656
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,640
of itself isn't an interesting question

657
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:24,240
it's quite a boring question but the

658
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,600
fact that it's being asked is

659
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,080
interesting to me because it's like well

660
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,720
the whole point of ttrpg's is that it's

661
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,120
this dynamic world that you're living in

662
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:36,240
even if you play super raw super

663
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:38,720
mechanical super optimal it's still

664
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:42,159
fundamentally a dynamic world that

665
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:44,159
reacts in the most dynamic way ever

666
00:22:42,159 --> 00:22:46,720
to the actions of the players being

667
00:22:44,159 --> 00:22:48,480
mechanical or abstract actions

668
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,159
so the whole the whole premise is

669
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,000
predicated on this dynamic feedback so

670
00:22:50,159 --> 00:22:54,799
the moment anyone says like

671
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,679
my players have done action a how do i

672
00:22:54,799 --> 00:23:00,240
respond to me that's like

673
00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:01,679
how do i play the game in a way like

674
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,760
what should i do

675
00:23:01,679 --> 00:23:05,120
here that's that's for me personally

676
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,120
that's the meat on the that's why i'm

677
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:09,120
there to answer those questions i love

678
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:10,000
them yeah those questions in my game are

679
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,960
brilliant they've given me all this

680
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,480
material this is where i get to flex my

681
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,640
my muscles

682
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,080
so i but fortunately enough my players

683
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,679
haven't gone full

684
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,400
off

685
00:23:19,679 --> 00:23:25,360
off the tracks um but what about you

686
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,960
have you got any tips any thoughts on

687
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:29,600
let's start with the extreme you know

688
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,679
the classic murder hoboism of just

689
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,799
completely pointless chaotic evil

690
00:23:31,679 --> 00:23:34,880
nonsense

691
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:36,400
yeah you know it's something that

692
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,799
really caught me off guard the first

693
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,799
time that i encountered it because

694
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:44,480
when i first started playing

695
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:47,039
tt rpgs i started with with earthdawn

696
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:50,320
and earthdawn's whole system is based

697
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:51,919
off of legend points meaning that it's

698
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,520
not you don't get experience from

699
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:55,679
killing creatures

700
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,679
you get character growth by people

701
00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:59,120
knowing of the heroic deeds that you've

702
00:23:57,679 --> 00:24:00,960
done

703
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,960
and so

704
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,600
you know there was no choice really but

705
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,279
to be a hero because

706
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,440
that's how you

707
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:11,679
gained experience that's how you became

708
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,240
more popular more well-known and the

709
00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:15,919
whole game really is based around the

710
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,960
idea of you know you're a group of

711
00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:19,919
heroes trying to do a thing and if you

712
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,559
start to

713
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:23,520
you know behave in a in a chaotic evil

714
00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:24,880
way

715
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,720
the forces that you're out there to

716
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,960
fight against will start to corrupt you

717
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,880
and pull you to their side to the point

718
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,120
where you'll have to give your character

719
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,400
over to the game master so it wasn't

720
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,080
really something that i ever dealt with

721
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,919
until much later

722
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,279
but i i remember very distinctly the

723
00:24:37,919 --> 00:24:41,440
first time

724
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:43,600
sitting down with a group of people and

725
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:46,400
you know we were playing a game kind of

726
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,080
set in in our world

727
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,200
and

728
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,400
this person gets a bazooka out and

729
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,200
blows up

730
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,120
like a a power station

731
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,440
and then they were shocked when the

732
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,480
police and the fire department showed up

733
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,400
and like

734
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,600
drew on them and and told them they were

735
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,240
under arrest

736
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,559
and so i think that a lot of that has to

737
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,480
deal with your session zero

738
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:12,320
that you got to establish you know with

739
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,679
your players like okay

740
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,600
like what are what are what are the

741
00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:18,960
rules of the world here how are we

742
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:21,600
playing this are npcs

743
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:24,559
you know disposable dime a dozen things

744
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:27,200
that you can just use as you as you see

745
00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:29,200
fit and ignore the rest of the time

746
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,520
or are they

747
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,279
kind of complex characters that can aid

748
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,320
and hinder you as you go through your

749
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:37,039
story

750
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,320
i think that the more

751
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:39,600
realistic

752
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,400
and

753
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,799
kind of dynamic you can make the

754
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,480
characters that they're interacting with

755
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:49,200
the harder it will be for them just to

756
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,840
be like oh this is nameless innkeeper i

757
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,279
i murder him because he's got more coins

758
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,200
than i do

759
00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:57,200
but again it really does come down to

760
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,559
that session zero of

761
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,400
you know what are kind of our lines and

762
00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:02,080
our veils and what is what is the

763
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,640
society here how

764
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,720
how are murderers treated in this

765
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,279
instance or you know what's the you know

766
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:12,080
in any small town uh within the

767
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:14,320
principalities here what's the

768
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,720
punishment for thievery

769
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,039
and and just kind of setting that out as

770
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,320
a group because that'll tell you a lot

771
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:22,799
about

772
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,480
the world the players want to play in

773
00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:27,679
i never

774
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,960
build my world until

775
00:26:27,679 --> 00:26:31,120
the players have made their characters

776
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,559
because they tell you so much of the

777
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,720
story that they want to play by the

778
00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:37,120
characters they create

779
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,880
and the backstories they give themselves

780
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:40,640
that if you can then find ways to

781
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,400
incorporate the oh this person has a

782
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,440
high thievery and a high backstab well i

783
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,799
know

784
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,720
that they want to use that obviously

785
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:49,679
so what kind of thing can i put in their

786
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,720
way

787
00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:52,960
that

788
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,880
you know morally

789
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,240
isn't just them doing this to whoever

790
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,880
they find but oh yeah there's this

791
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,320
corrupt group who's doing you know x y

792
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,799
and z

793
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:06,000
how are you going to deal with them

794
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:09,279
again another world building challenge

795
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,520
for the gm yeah do you think then

796
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:13,520
at that session zero that you mentioned

797
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,480
it would be useful to have

798
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,760
like hypothetical situations to then you

799
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,360
know at least work with the players or

800
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,240
if you wanna if the world is already

801
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:24,640
pre-set up for sake of argument players

802
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,240
if somebody kills somebody in this world

803
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,520
they will be you know

804
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,760
the police would do everything in their

805
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,760
power to apprehend that person and put

806
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,600
them in prison that is his one

807
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,200
hypothetical example of a crime being

808
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,880
committed in the world

809
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,480
you know that's we've even before we've

810
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,320
even started playing

811
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,279
you you know

812
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,880
that's what's going to happen do you

813
00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:44,320
think that's you know

814
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,520
beneficial to either build that at the

815
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,440
time

816
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,240
with the players as you said or already

817
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,840
have them pre-baked

818
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,559
and i think you know one of my favorite

819
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,640
session zeros i've ever done was

820
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,840
you know we sat down we generated

821
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,240
characters we talked about the world a

822
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:03,840
little bit and then

823
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,039
each player had uh just like a 10 or 15

824
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,600
minute

825
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:08,799
session alone with the game master

826
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,840
you know we were all still there but it

827
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:11,679
was them

828
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,760
going through a couple of things using

829
00:28:11,679 --> 00:28:15,279
their important skills and

830
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,919
them just kind of getting an opportunity

831
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:19,279
to feel each other out in the sense of

832
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:21,279
you know how they were going to play the

833
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:23,440
character what things were you know

834
00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:25,120
relevant to them

835
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,919
because then that gives you a chance to

836
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:30,480
to adapt things or adjust things between

837
00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:32,320
that and your first session

838
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,840
yeah and again that's that's a failing

839
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,919
that i have

840
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,120
unwittingly committed myself and you

841
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:39,840
know not

842
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:41,919
it's so easy to think of

843
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,799
session zero is one thing when it is in

844
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:46,799
fact 20 million different things

845
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:49,039
right all at once and it has a lot of

846
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:50,399
baggage nowadays for for better and for

847
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:51,600
worse

848
00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:54,880
and of course it does all of those

849
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,399
things and more and in fact it's it's

850
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,520
you know in some cases it probably needs

851
00:28:56,399 --> 00:29:00,880
to be longer than a regular session in a

852
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,880
weird right you know

853
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,480
upside down turn of events

854
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,960
rather than just his you know scene

855
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,720
saying it's it needs to be all of this

856
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,320
stuff not just

857
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,120
if you kill bad things would happen to

858
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,200
you but also like his these nations and

859
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,399
his background and what did you you know

860
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,840
how did your character grow up again oh

861
00:29:16,399 --> 00:29:18,799
yeah let me think about we could maybe

862
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,559
do this

863
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:22,799
uh and i think there's a lot to be said

864
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:24,480
for doing that in kind of full

865
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:26,559
transparency of the other players if you

866
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,799
have the opportunity to do so because it

867
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:31,120
builds that shared universe

868
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:32,640
you know everybody's invested

869
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,720
a little bit you know the very least of

870
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,399
their time which is highly hugely

871
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,919
important to people to be like oh this

872
00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:39,360
is this is the our world and that has

873
00:29:37,919 --> 00:29:42,159
already started to

874
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,679
maybe mitigate that chaotic evil play

875
00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:44,720
because people have invested time into

876
00:29:43,679 --> 00:29:46,240
this world and they don't want to

877
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,200
immediate the first time they step foot

878
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,510
in it they don't want to just tear it

879
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,360
down

880
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:51,039
[Laughter]

881
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,799
yeah there's a game that we played a

882
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:55,360
couple of years ago that

883
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:56,799
that was part of the session zero

884
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,159
they had a mechanic that you went

885
00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:00,159
through on the world building it was

886
00:29:58,159 --> 00:30:02,559
like okay so there are

887
00:30:00,159 --> 00:30:04,799
corporations that run this city and

888
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:07,360
there is as many corporations as there

889
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:09,200
are players each person described one

890
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,600
corporation and what they're in charge

891
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,039
of and so i was like okay well there's

892
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,640
this one person came up with you know

893
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,720
there's this group and they do all of

894
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,880
like transportation they do

895
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,360
the subways they do the buses they do

896
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,120
the taxis and they use that as a system

897
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,240
to you know filter money and someone

898
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,760
else was like oh yeah there's a group

899
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,200
who does all of like the defense

900
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,440
contracts and

901
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,679
and so then as they start to to build

902
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,799
that world you know even if it's even if

903
00:30:31,679 --> 00:30:36,080
you have

904
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:38,399
a home brew world that you want to do

905
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,440
letting the players in your session zero

906
00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:41,039
build

907
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,279
like their starting location and then

908
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:45,200
dropping that into your map that you

909
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:47,840
have

910
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,080
gives them that sense of kind of

911
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,720
ownership over the the place where we

912
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:55,520
first find them and get to know them

913
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,519
yeah absolutely absolutely you know it

914
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,200
sounds so obvious

915
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:00,399
not just what you're saying but what you

916
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,840
know everything we've talked about so

917
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:05,919
far on paper it's like well duh

918
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,799
it really is a lot it is a lot and it's

919
00:31:05,919 --> 00:31:10,320
so hard uh to to be able to get all the

920
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:12,480
all your chickens in a line and get

921
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,240
everybody ready and and have players who

922
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,799
wish to do that as i said like i've got

923
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:20,320
a whole mix of players some who are very

924
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:22,320
keen on that kind of stuff some who

925
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,080
do the bare minimum i think is fair to

926
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,159
say in terms of

927
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,679
world building and fluff and backstory

928
00:31:26,159 --> 00:31:30,399
in fact one of the characters uh one of

929
00:31:27,679 --> 00:31:32,399
the players characters died recently and

930
00:31:30,399 --> 00:31:34,320
they had a yeah you know i gave them

931
00:31:32,399 --> 00:31:36,000
four weeks over the christmas holidays

932
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,679
went to holidays to

933
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,880
build a new character

934
00:31:37,679 --> 00:31:40,320
i've said like his here's the list of

935
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,080
all the npc's you know here's the list

936
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,360
here's the session logs for

937
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,360
the last 68 sessions the riff off of

938
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,120
this wealth of material

939
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,880
and he left it until the night before

940
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,679
about 11 00 p.m

941
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,519
to

942
00:31:51,679 --> 00:31:59,519
send me a half-baked backstory

943
00:31:55,519 --> 00:32:00,880
so you know balancing that i

944
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:02,159
i don't want to say it's like a job in a

945
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,440
way because every game is different and

946
00:32:02,159 --> 00:32:05,760
some games are smooth like batter and

947
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,640
others have these weird

948
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,840
bumps in the road like mine tend to do

949
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,279
but

950
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,000
it is just

951
00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:15,120
a dance basically it's a delicate dance

952
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,880
between

953
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,559
making sure all these plates are kept

954
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,240
spinning and everybody's happy that the

955
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:22,559
plates are spinning in in the direction

956
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,880
they want them to spin to really

957
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:26,720
really butcher an already tenuous

958
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,080
metaphor there

959
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,760
one because you're going to have players

960
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,200
who you know you're going to have that

961
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,559
player that sends you

962
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,480
a seven page backstory that has npcs

963
00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:38,480
named and items that are important to

964
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,000
them that maybe they could find later

965
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,720
and then you're you also have the player

966
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,360
who is just there to

967
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,880
roll dice and feel like a badass in

968
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,159
combat and they yeah my mom is

969
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,840
jane and

970
00:32:50,159 --> 00:32:52,720
my dad is joe

971
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,159
and

972
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,440
you know again we you talk about that

973
00:32:54,159 --> 00:32:58,320
delicate dance of finding that balance

974
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,080
of

975
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,200
okay this character clearly wants to

976
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,120
role play

977
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,799
and this character clearly wants to like

978
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,240
do a dungeon crawl

979
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:07,279
so how can i

980
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,440
place

981
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:11,120
these role-playing elements within the

982
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,600
dungeon crawl so that

983
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,760
no one feels like their you know their

984
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,360
desired game

985
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,039
isn't kind of happening

986
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,640
yeah and uh

987
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:22,159
thank you for providing me a very nice

988
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,960
opportunity to do some self-promotion

989
00:33:22,159 --> 00:33:27,519
here because uh i i made some some

990
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:30,240
tweets recently around um

991
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:32,080
that there's a discourse that i i find

992
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,080
a bit of a waste of time to be

993
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,640
completely frank in the whole like rules

994
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,960
versus fun debate and those do follow me

995
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,720
on twitter will remember this tweet

996
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,240
because my point is that that is not a

997
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,679
discussion that doesn't that those two

998
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,159
things are apples and oranges you can't

999
00:33:43,679 --> 00:33:49,519
compare them like that because the rules

1000
00:33:46,159 --> 00:33:51,200
are the fun for some players yeah so

1001
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:52,720
it's not a rules or fun it's one of the

1002
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,960
rules are the fun for that player that

1003
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,200
the actual discussion is

1004
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,919
somebody likes rules and somebody

1005
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,399
doesn't like them as much

1006
00:33:59,919 --> 00:34:04,880
do these two people belong in the same

1007
00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:06,720
you know the same game or how can i you

1008
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,679
know make a mix of you know because if

1009
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,599
we

1010
00:34:07,679 --> 00:34:12,079
obviously if you especially

1011
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:13,040
if you play you know any version of d

1012
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:15,919
before

1013
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:18,480
5e or if you play pathfinder

1014
00:34:15,919 --> 00:34:21,040
you have to love rules because there's a

1015
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:23,200
rule for everything and you spend so

1016
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,040
much time looking them up

1017
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,599
that you know there there is an element

1018
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,599
of you know when sometimes to relax

1019
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:31,919
we play a much more complicated game

1020
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:33,839
than the one we do on our podcast

1021
00:34:31,919 --> 00:34:34,800
because there is something that's fun

1022
00:34:33,839 --> 00:34:37,359
about

1023
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,720
all of the skill checks and you know

1024
00:34:37,359 --> 00:34:40,560
getting those certain bumps and the

1025
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:41,359
magic items that let you do this special

1026
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,440
thing

1027
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:46,240
as opposed to

1028
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,159
the fun of yeah i just describe what

1029
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:49,919
happens narratively and it happens

1030
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,679
because you know i have a high enough

1031
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:53,760
stat you know those are two very

1032
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,599
different kinds of fun that depending on

1033
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,200
the day of the week it kind of depends

1034
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:59,040
on which one you're in the mood for

1035
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,880
absolutely you know i've

1036
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,760
said to many times more time my own

1037
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,079
players

1038
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,520
in fact that that same player who you

1039
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:07,359
know turned up at

1040
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,599
11 p.m with a half-baked character i've

1041
00:35:07,359 --> 00:35:11,760
said to him before in the past like hey

1042
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:13,119
i've noticed some friction with your

1043
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,280
interaction with the world or even

1044
00:35:13,119 --> 00:35:16,400
playing have you considered playing this

1045
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,320
other system

1046
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,560
this other framework that is more

1047
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,160
conducive to that play style because

1048
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,520
you're trying to put a square peg in a

1049
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,440
round hole sometimes the round hole

1050
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,400
being fifth edition

1051
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,160
and

1052
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,119
maybe if we can find you a square hole

1053
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,839
you'll have

1054
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:33,680
a lot more fun to not yeah deftly skirt

1055
00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:36,240
around any uh

1056
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,800
euphemisms there but uh

1057
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:40,560
so yeah it's a consequence of the game

1058
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,400
system you pick to

1059
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,079
butcher a way of trying to bring us back

1060
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,720
onto

1061
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:48,400
yes yes just trying crowbar us back onto

1062
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:50,160
the to the track i guess the consequence

1063
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,880
of us having too much fun is uh

1064
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:55,880
get rid of we got off topic yeah ever so

1065
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,880
slightly

1066
00:36:00,390 --> 00:36:06,000
[Music]

1067
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:08,480
yes it's it's oh it's all this

1068
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,000
interconnectedness but uh one

1069
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,119
question i was going to have for you

1070
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,960
then is have you got any stand out like

1071
00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:17,280
any classic

1072
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,040
surprise pikachu face consequences for

1073
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,200
your for your players in your career has

1074
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,720
there ever been any bits that you've i

1075
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,720
don't wanna say blindsided them because

1076
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,880
that suggests that it was unfair or

1077
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:27,680
whatever but any moments that were like

1078
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,880
oh

1079
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,079
yeah

1080
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,000
whoops

1081
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:34,000
we messed up yeah

1082
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,160
like you know because

1083
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,400
a big thing is that

1084
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,320
realizing that you know consequences has

1085
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,359
a negative connotation

1086
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,000
but

1087
00:36:41,359 --> 00:36:46,079
when a character fails at something

1088
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,720
that's usually where

1089
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:50,079
some of the coolest storytelling comes

1090
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:52,320
from

1091
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:54,640
you know we we don't go into a movie

1092
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,079
theater to watch the character succeed

1093
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,079
in their final goal in the first 10

1094
00:36:56,079 --> 00:37:00,640
minutes no they fail a bunch

1095
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:02,160
and then we get to see their rise to

1096
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,680
glory

1097
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,280
and so i think just you know keeping

1098
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,599
that in mind that

1099
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,920
if you can make the players and yourself

1100
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:13,359
see that the consequences are

1101
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,599
how much fun they can be or how much um

1102
00:37:13,359 --> 00:37:17,440
consequence they can have in the story

1103
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:19,359
that you're telling um one of my

1104
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,200
favorite ones is

1105
00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:23,359
they were dealing with this

1106
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,560
person who could generate a lot of

1107
00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:28,640
offspring okay and they were able to

1108
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,440
kill this creature

1109
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,680
but

1110
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,680
one of the offspring got away

1111
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,760
and then like

1112
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,520
three seasons later

1113
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:41,040
they came across another one of this

1114
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,560
offspring and realized that it was like

1115
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,880
the great great

1116
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,480
granddaughter of this thing they had

1117
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,440
fought so long ago and because they

1118
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,440
didn't

1119
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,960
deal with all of them

1120
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,560
here was another one that had come

1121
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,560
looking for them

1122
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,359
and so just just those little things i

1123
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,720
my favorite consequences are

1124
00:37:57,359 --> 00:38:00,240
when they're like we gotta put a pin in

1125
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:02,000
that and deal with that later yeah and

1126
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,760
then they forget

1127
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,920
and then you can bring that moment back

1128
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,960
up later and there's always just such a

1129
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,680
good

1130
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,760
reaction at the table of oh my god i

1131
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,839
forgot about that

1132
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,000
and it is that oh if it isn't the con

1133
00:38:13,839 --> 00:38:18,240
the uh ramifications of my own actions

1134
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,599
yeah yeah yeah yeah i know i love that

1135
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,560
as well it's such a machiavellian

1136
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:24,960
delight as a gm to be like i'm gonna

1137
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,720
remember that you guys might not but

1138
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,280
yeah i in the world are definitely gonna

1139
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,040
remember that uh a couple of examples

1140
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,359
from my game um

1141
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,359
my players they went to a

1142
00:38:33,359 --> 00:38:37,440
jewellers i guess jewelry shop that was

1143
00:38:35,359 --> 00:38:39,040
run by a

1144
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,160
less than

1145
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,560
legal goblin in my fantasy world

1146
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,320
who you know is he was called sleaze i

1147
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,000
think that pretty much speaks for itself

1148
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,800
right it was

1149
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,240
it was a dodgy venture

1150
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,079
from from the outset

1151
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:56,480
he was clearly

1152
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:58,720
not legal and uh

1153
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,839
they still attempted to

1154
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:03,040
like swindle him and rob and steal

1155
00:39:01,839 --> 00:39:04,640
from this

1156
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,720
this goblin who's

1157
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,160
yeah i mean by himself it's just one

1158
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:09,359
dude in a shop

1159
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,680
trying to sell you some diamonds so you

1160
00:39:09,359 --> 00:39:13,599
can revive your friends but like

1161
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,960
how did he get that shop and where did

1162
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:16,720
he get all these diamonds from all these

1163
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,560
other questions so long story short is

1164
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,000
they they tried to swindle them didn't

1165
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,440
quite work it didn't

1166
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,680
explode at that point there wasn't like

1167
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,760
royal initiative everyone fights okay

1168
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,839
close the book on that it ended as

1169
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,960
amicable as it could have done but for

1170
00:39:29,839 --> 00:39:35,040
me as the dm i was very much like

1171
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,960
yeah he's got connections

1172
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,040
like that goblin network in my world is

1173
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,880
extensive and they all you know they're

1174
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,560
all in cahoots and

1175
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,680
he's got you know bigger brothers that

1176
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,400
are

1177
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,079
gonna pay the the players a visit shall

1178
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,520
we say at some point down the line for

1179
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:51,040
like bullying this

1180
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,400
you know the store owner at this point

1181
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,240
so i'm like yep

1182
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,839
that's that's just pop that

1183
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,520
put that little in my little post-it

1184
00:39:55,839 --> 00:39:59,599
note somewhere we'll just let that let

1185
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,520
that stew for a couple of months and

1186
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:04,000
we'll see you know and i am very much

1187
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,000
looking forward to that come up and to

1188
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,440
sound like a parent just long enough

1189
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,760
yeah for them to have forgotten about

1190
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,760
yeah precisely and then i also wanted to

1191
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,760
add a positive spin

1192
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,440
so recently the only two surviving

1193
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,560
player characters there's a cataclysm in

1194
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,240
the big city

1195
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,720
you know there was a bunch of mp you

1196
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:23,200
know half the population was

1197
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,880
unfortunately killed for various plot

1198
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,000
reasons and

1199
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,560
long story short is that the two

1200
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:32,160
surviving player characters one is this

1201
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:35,440
charlatan warlock who is very old style

1202
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,560
no substance very manipulative very

1203
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,200
typically

1204
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,640
warlocky you know flamboyant flashy

1205
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,040
doesn't have a lifter finger but tells

1206
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,560
everybody he lifts both hands so when he

1207
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,079
was leaving the city he was like tell

1208
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,079
everybody you know that it was me that

1209
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:49,760
saved the day and i'm the one the reason

1210
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:51,200
you're still here alive

1211
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,200
but then left them well they're

1212
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,400
literally in like humanitarian relief

1213
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,880
efforts

1214
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,400
whereas the other one is a

1215
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:03,119
goliath bloodhunter barbarian but very

1216
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,640
kind-hearted kind souled so when i

1217
00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:06,079
as i did with the walk before him on his

1218
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,359
way out of the city i was like there's

1219
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:08,640
relief efforts and they're asking you

1220
00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:10,480
know all hands on deck we need to clear

1221
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,400
the rubble this that and the other he

1222
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,400
was like yeah okay i'll go and help i'm

1223
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,680
way stronger than these people so i was

1224
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,200
like okay what do you you know what do

1225
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,880
you do and here's the kind of things you

1226
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:22,079
can do and how long do you want to spend

1227
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,960
doing it like the day i thought a week

1228
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:24,640
or

1229
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,240
just resolve this one small issue they

1230
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,240
have to find this one missing person and

1231
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,440
then go and he's like oh you know i

1232
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,440
spent a day you know eight hours or

1233
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,079
whatnot and i was like yeah and narrated

1234
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,440
it they love you they you know they are

1235
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:37,119
so thankful for your efforts like any

1236
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,720
time you come back you'll have a place

1237
00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:40,000
to say you know you've you've saved the

1238
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,040
lives of like 10 people because you've

1239
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,480
been clearing all this rubble because

1240
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,480
you're a huge strong barbarian thank you

1241
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,960
thank you thank you so he left so you

1242
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,200
kind of got two different parallel

1243
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,040
stories there now one of my other

1244
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,319
characters one of my other players who

1245
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,280
is rebuilding another character he's

1246
00:41:52,319 --> 00:41:54,319
come back

1247
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,160
and

1248
00:41:54,319 --> 00:41:57,839
one of the ways that his new character

1249
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,000
has been introduced to the party is

1250
00:41:57,839 --> 00:42:02,400
because he's like oh yeah i heard of

1251
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,000
your two exploits you're the two saviors

1252
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,319
of this city right

1253
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,480
and of course the warlock is like

1254
00:42:06,319 --> 00:42:10,319
yes god like you

1255
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,160
they they know me they've heard of me i

1256
00:42:10,319 --> 00:42:13,680
didn't do anything whereas it's very

1257
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,520
humble and modest

1258
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,319
you know goliath barbarian is like oh

1259
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:20,560
yeah i guess i helped a bit

1260
00:42:18,319 --> 00:42:21,359
but my point being is that hey you've

1261
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,440
got

1262
00:42:21,359 --> 00:42:24,319
there if you feel fortunate enough like

1263
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,079
i am

1264
00:42:24,319 --> 00:42:28,319
you can have players

1265
00:42:26,079 --> 00:42:30,560
even build off each other's you know

1266
00:42:28,319 --> 00:42:33,200
provide consequences to the other

1267
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,720
players actions and be it's in a good

1268
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,920
it's in a favorable light yes there was

1269
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:38,079
a bit of deception on the part of the

1270
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,079
warlock but broadly

1271
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:42,720
i guess he did save some of them in

1272
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:44,800
indirectly but um it's in a favorable

1273
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:46,079
idea isn't this the world's going to

1274
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,839
explode in seven weeks because you

1275
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:50,560
forgot to turn the the oven off before

1276
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:52,319
you left for adventuring like it's right

1277
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,119
it's like you had this stuff and now

1278
00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:55,599
people

1279
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:57,440
people have heard of you in the world

1280
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:59,359
for your good deeds so yes that was that

1281
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,599
was my two examples i just wanted to

1282
00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:03,359
very very recent examples that i wanted

1283
00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:06,400
to mention there is perhaps an

1284
00:43:03,359 --> 00:43:07,599
inspiration for for other people yeah

1285
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,280
you know introducing a new character is

1286
00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:13,760
always tricky both from the player and

1287
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:16,000
the gm so that was like such an easy win

1288
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,359
for both me and the player to be like

1289
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,280
yes you've heard of their exploits

1290
00:43:17,359 --> 00:43:20,640
absolutely great i love it you're now

1291
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,319
best friends as soon as you've turned up

1292
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,920
they're ready to have you in the party

1293
00:43:22,319 --> 00:43:25,280
which is always that tricky question to

1294
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,800
be like why do you want an adventure

1295
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,480
with you yeah

1296
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,440
well and it's you know it's really nice

1297
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,800
too

1298
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,720
you know again we're talking about

1299
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,079
consequences

1300
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,319
but to also

1301
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:38,319
balance that with

1302
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:39,440
like you just said the things that you

1303
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:40,960
take note of the things that you

1304
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,119
remember

1305
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,720
that hit them in a positive way that oh

1306
00:43:43,119 --> 00:43:47,359
yeah you helped this

1307
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:48,880
little girl do this thing and

1308
00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:51,599
later on when you're in this tough

1309
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,200
situation and people don't believe you

1310
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:54,880
you know who you see in the audience

1311
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,720
it's that little girl and she stands up

1312
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,160
and starts talking in your on your

1313
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:59,280
behalf and

1314
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,400
that you know

1315
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,480
if you

1316
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,920
want to be and and you should be

1317
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,160
meticulous

1318
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,650
with crafting your consequences

1319
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,240
you know putting as much energy into

1320
00:44:08,650 --> 00:44:13,040
[Music]

1321
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:15,359
crafting rewards for things that they do

1322
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,720
is is super important and goes back into

1323
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:18,800
that whole like

1324
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:21,040
building a trust at a table

1325
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,880
where everyone feels comfortable helping

1326
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,920
generate consequences for another player

1327
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,079
that seem fair and and whatnot

1328
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,200
yeah absolutely absolutely you gotta

1329
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:31,520
it's it's

1330
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:34,160
both sides of the coin you need to

1331
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,240
fulfill as a gm otherwise you do

1332
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,760
build you do foster unfortunately that

1333
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:39,599
them versus us

1334
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,520
mentality because it is very one way and

1335
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:42,480
that absolutely needs to be two ways if

1336
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,359
of course the players and their

1337
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,760
characters are providing you

1338
00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:47,760
opportunities to it's a pretty rewarding

1339
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,640
recognition um which is often not the

1340
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,160
case as we discussed earlier on but uh

1341
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,960
a good example of what you just

1342
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,960
mentioned there is in um in a video game

1343
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,880
resident evil 4 like right at the

1344
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,520
beginning there's like a wolf trapped in

1345
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,040
a

1346
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,359
bear trap

1347
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,520
and you hear it kind of whining and you

1348
00:45:03,359 --> 00:45:07,839
can go up and you can you can let it out

1349
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,359
and it you know runs off into the forest

1350
00:45:07,839 --> 00:45:10,880
and disappears and as a player the first

1351
00:45:09,359 --> 00:45:12,800
time i you know i vividly remember doing

1352
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,480
this however many years ago when i first

1353
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,119
was playing it through on

1354
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,520
gamecube i think if memory serves

1355
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:22,000
and you're like oh okay that was

1356
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:24,240
cool and then i think at the first like

1357
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,400
mini boss you fight at one point the

1358
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:27,599
wolf comes in and literally like as you

1359
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,960
describe like it's literally on the edge

1360
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:31,520
of the arena that you're fighting this

1361
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,760
boss in it howls jumps into the arena

1362
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,680
and then distracts the boss so you can

1363
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,400
get a bunch of hits in and get like a

1364
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,319
freebie in and that's a that's a classic

1365
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,960
very linear very

1366
00:45:40,319 --> 00:45:45,280
binary one one one direction this is a

1367
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,480
very good example of just that how clean

1368
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,720
and crisp sometimes it has to be it

1369
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,800
doesn't have to be this six months later

1370
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:52,319
the tree that you planted the seed that

1371
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,240
you planted grew into a mighty oak and

1372
00:45:52,319 --> 00:45:56,400
now there's a new village that live in

1373
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:57,839
the tree you know it doesn't need to be

1374
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,240
that complicated sometimes it can be as

1375
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:02,079
simple as hey you fed that dog and now

1376
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:04,319
the dog wants to follow you here

1377
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:04,319
yeah

1378
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,720
now

1379
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:11,200
we've talked an awful lot about

1380
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:13,280
consequences in universe in game for

1381
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,560
better and for worse now obviously there

1382
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,640
are

1383
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,800
it's an all-in-game we are playing with

1384
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:21,200
other human beings and human beings as

1385
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,119
i've previously mentioned are imperfect

1386
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,640
and sometimes there are you know people

1387
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:26,160
make mistakes people play in a different

1388
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,599
way that you don't want them to play

1389
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,680
what i am

1390
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:31,839
getting to is have you ever had the

1391
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,280
unfortunate experience of

1392
00:46:31,839 --> 00:46:35,040
you know having to

1393
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,880
perhaps have quote unquote the

1394
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,760
discussion with a player to be like hey

1395
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:42,000
this isn't this isn't working because of

1396
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,920
your actions or because of what's

1397
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,200
happening here or

1398
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,200
hey we've talked about this and it's

1399
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,119
still an issue maybe you might want to

1400
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,119
think about a different table that

1401
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:53,520
suits your predilections have you ever

1402
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:55,760
been in that unfortunate position yeah

1403
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:58,880
once or twice um

1404
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,920
where it it ultimately comes up to

1405
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,200
you know kind of what we talked about

1406
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,319
earlier

1407
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,079
people's

1408
00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:05,839
game styles

1409
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:06,960
their play styles bumping into one

1410
00:47:05,839 --> 00:47:10,000
another

1411
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,079
um you know i've been super fortunate in

1412
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,160
that i've never had to deal with some of

1413
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:16,960
the much more uncomfortable reasons why

1414
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,800
that would be an issue i've been a part

1415
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,000
of those talks but never the game master

1416
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,480
at that table

1417
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,079
but it is it's you know sometimes it's

1418
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,359
about

1419
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:27,359
finding

1420
00:47:25,359 --> 00:47:28,880
the right game for the group you know if

1421
00:47:27,359 --> 00:47:30,079
it's like it's oh this is our group and

1422
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,680
this is who we always play with and

1423
00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:33,040
we're playing this game

1424
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,200
and there's a lot of friction between

1425
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,280
these two players okay is that friction

1426
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,400
normally there

1427
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,559
if so

1428
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,079
what's the cause of it

1429
00:47:40,559 --> 00:47:43,680
and

1430
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:45,680
you know finding out like you said

1431
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:49,040
earlier is there is there a different

1432
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,040
hole to try that peggy

1433
00:47:49,359 --> 00:47:53,200
but then when it comes to pick pickup

1434
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:56,559
groups and things like that

1435
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,599
i find that it's best to deal with it as

1436
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,520
quickly

1437
00:47:57,599 --> 00:48:03,280
as possible yeah you know whenever we

1438
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:05,119
run games at a convention we always have

1439
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,200
lines and veils that people fill out

1440
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:08,720
beforehand and then we also have an x

1441
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,160
card on the table

1442
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:11,440
and you know for anybody unfamiliar with

1443
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,400
the x card

1444
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:16,960
if one if a player holds up the x card

1445
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:19,680
whatever was just said you basically

1446
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,119
rewind and you do it a different way

1447
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,280
it's a way for someone to say like hey

1448
00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:25,440
this makes me uncomfortable without

1449
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,119
having to go into why yeah

1450
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,480
and so

1451
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:30,800
there have been moments where you have

1452
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,079
to pull someone aside and say hey like i

1453
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,440
realize that you're playing this

1454
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:35,599
character

1455
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,720
this way like you want to be let's say

1456
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:40,960
the hard-boiled detective who

1457
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:43,040
because of the time period

1458
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,079
is a womanizer

1459
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:50,160
but you can't talk to other players like

1460
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:53,280
that so how can we still create the feel

1461
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,920
that you want of this loner

1462
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,280
without encroaching on someone else's

1463
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,880
enjoyment of the game because i mean

1464
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,720
ultimately that's what it boils down to

1465
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,559
we want to make sure as the game master

1466
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:04,640
that everybody at the table

1467
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:06,480
is having a good time

1468
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,800
and as soon as one person isn't having a

1469
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,280
good time especially if it's because of

1470
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,040
you know the actions of another player

1471
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,400
that's when a game master's job becomes

1472
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,599
work

1473
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:19,119
as opposed to you know we talked earlier

1474
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:22,240
about like oh poor me i've got to do all

1475
00:49:19,119 --> 00:49:24,480
this work but it can become work yeah

1476
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:26,240
when it just becomes about

1477
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,559
figuring out

1478
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:30,720
if it's a problem player or a problem

1479
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:33,440
character yeah

1480
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:35,760
well i'm i count myself as well in just

1481
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,520
a fortunate position as yourself where i

1482
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:40,240
haven't had to have any of those two too

1483
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,520
many difficult discussions but

1484
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:43,520
you see a lot of them online i've

1485
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,960
mentioned it many times before of people

1486
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,680
being like

1487
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,119
one of my players was hideously racist

1488
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,599
how do i deal with this and i'm like

1489
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:53,200
well this isn't really a ttrpg question

1490
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:56,400
at this point this is just

1491
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:58,400
this is just a racist person question

1492
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,319
yeah and you just deal with how you

1493
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,720
would deal with the someone doing that

1494
00:50:00,319 --> 00:50:05,119
in any given thing you do in your daily

1495
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:07,680
life as normal right like there's no

1496
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:10,839
need to come to reddit for that

1497
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,720
what's your gut reaction shut them down

1498
00:50:10,839 --> 00:50:15,359
please yeah

1499
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:17,920
and uh so yeah that always

1500
00:50:15,359 --> 00:50:20,319
i don't know i don't know for why

1501
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,640
because i can't think of

1502
00:50:20,319 --> 00:50:25,280
another medium where this is a problem

1503
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:27,440
so like for example like football has

1504
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,599
soccer for my american listeners

1505
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,359
it's absurd in the uk has at least had

1506
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:33,359
uh how should we say this a storied

1507
00:50:31,359 --> 00:50:35,359
history funnily enough when it comes to

1508
00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:36,720
racism and that isn't a football problem

1509
00:50:35,359 --> 00:50:38,640
that's just an

1510
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:42,160
english person problem to paint my

1511
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:43,440
country in a horrible light oh my god um

1512
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,359
but like no one's like oh we need to

1513
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,640
change the rules of the game or like we

1514
00:50:45,359 --> 00:50:48,400
need to

1515
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,800
dance around this topic and ask why this

1516
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,960
player isn't having fun in the same way

1517
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,640
like it's that's not a dtrpg question

1518
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,559
and you don't need to cater or panda

1519
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,280
like this but that is an egregious

1520
00:50:56,559 --> 00:51:01,040
example i know but it eventually gets to

1521
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,559
that point where

1522
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,960
that person has to have the consequences

1523
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:06,319
to their action and there is a

1524
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,760
i want to say

1525
00:51:06,319 --> 00:51:09,839
simplicity

1526
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,520
but there is an an elegance in the

1527
00:51:09,839 --> 00:51:13,920
solution which is to say

1528
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,920
goodbye leave my game now

1529
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,359
like right you're not playing with us

1530
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,200
anymore and for some reason i find

1531
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:21,359
there's a lot of preciousness around

1532
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:23,680
kicking people out of games which is the

1533
00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:26,000
logical conclusion of

1534
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:28,400
such an egregious example of

1535
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,760
being a bad human being

1536
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,079
almost like people feel like they are

1537
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:34,960
denying somebody else

1538
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:36,800
this fun that we talk about so often and

1539
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,359
again it's just i don't know it's just a

1540
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,359
weird discussion point for my for my

1541
00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:43,040
brain why people feel that way

1542
00:51:41,359 --> 00:51:44,960
why there is oppressiveness about

1543
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,960
kicking people out of the game when some

1544
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:50,000
examples i've read have literally been

1545
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:51,359
that bad yeah and they're still like oh

1546
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,400
i can't kick him from a game because

1547
00:51:51,359 --> 00:51:54,480
he's

1548
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,359
you know my colleague or i work with him

1549
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,280
okay

1550
00:51:55,359 --> 00:51:59,040
completely pointless bits of information

1551
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:02,079
that have no bearing on what's just

1552
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,680
occurred here but fine

1553
00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:04,720
he could be your dad and like or you

1554
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,400
know

1555
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:08,160
your partner and you the discussion

1556
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,839
would be very similar

1557
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,440
yeah like i'm gonna say this and it's

1558
00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:13,040
gonna sound like i'm being

1559
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:15,599
tongue-in-cheek and i'm i'm really not

1560
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:17,599
but you know you have these people

1561
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:20,079
who are

1562
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:21,520
so concerned about the consequences of

1563
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:24,000
if i kick

1564
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,079
this person out of my game

1565
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:30,319
what are the ramifications gonna be at

1566
00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:31,440
my job on my commute on my whatever

1567
00:52:30,319 --> 00:52:32,800
yeah

1568
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,839
and you know there's also that element

1569
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,559
too of

1570
00:52:33,839 --> 00:52:40,000
and it's not maybe as much of a problem

1571
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:41,839
anymore yeah because of you know what's

1572
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,400
happened in the pandemic and kind of the

1573
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:46,720
influx of people playing games online

1574
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:50,559
over skype or discord or whatever

1575
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:51,920
but there also used to be a real

1576
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,440
well we can't kick them out because we

1577
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,960
don't have another

1578
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,400
player

1579
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,720
and if it's just the three of us we

1580
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,319
can't really play a game yeah and so

1581
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:01,760
there was there was a time period i

1582
00:53:00,319 --> 00:53:03,599
think where there was that weird like

1583
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:06,000
well you just got to deal with whoever's

1584
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:08,480
willing to play because only a handful

1585
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,240
of people are interested in playing but

1586
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,359
in today's space if you're dealing with

1587
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:13,839
somebody

1588
00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:15,760
who is problematic for yourself or the

1589
00:53:13,839 --> 00:53:18,559
other players of the story

1590
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:21,760
man just join a discord and find someone

1591
00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:24,319
who wants to to skype into your game and

1592
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:26,839
don't have that thorn in your boot

1593
00:53:24,319 --> 00:53:29,520
thank you for spinning my

1594
00:53:26,839 --> 00:53:31,040
inadvertently sad topic of discussion in

1595
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,040
term positive at the end now i was well

1596
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,200
worried we were going to close and like

1597
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,960
people human suck

1598
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,440
but no

1599
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,359
you you've redeemed the episode

1600
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,260
don't get me wrong some humans suck

1601
00:53:41,359 --> 00:53:44,240
that'll be your chest

1602
00:53:42,260 --> 00:53:46,240
[Laughter]

1603
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:48,319
but oh yes you you've you've redeemed

1604
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:50,640
the episode to be like no the hobby is

1605
00:53:48,319 --> 00:53:53,359
so good now and so popular that there's

1606
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:55,599
always people to fill those gaps so

1607
00:53:53,359 --> 00:53:57,520
you know every cloud which is

1608
00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:59,440
far better to end on than

1609
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,119
whatever i was talking about so

1610
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,240
thank you ever so much for that

1611
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:03,760
um

1612
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:06,400
is there anything that you wanted to

1613
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,520
talk about that we haven't got to yet

1614
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,920
um

1615
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,480
no not really i think you know like i

1616
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,400
said i started out playing earth dawn

1617
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,640
and then i played pathfinder

1618
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:19,040
and that's exclusively what i played for

1619
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,800
a very long time

1620
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,400
and

1621
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,240
starting to play

1622
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,280
you know monster of the week dungeon

1623
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,640
world

1624
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,359
you know any of these powered by the

1625
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:32,079
apocalypse games or fake games

1626
00:54:29,359 --> 00:54:34,240
i didn't realize

1627
00:54:32,079 --> 00:54:36,319
how much i was missing until i started

1628
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:38,079
playing other games

1629
00:54:36,319 --> 00:54:39,280
and it's just it's you know that would

1630
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:41,119
be my one

1631
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,000
my one thing is like

1632
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:43,440
hey

1633
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,200
next time you're at a convention or next

1634
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,640
time someone brings up a new game like

1635
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,160
give it a shot even if you don't play it

1636
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,520
right you're going to find some really

1637
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,440
cool stuff

1638
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,799
because you know d and d has become the

1639
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,720
gold standard because it's been around

1640
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:56,079
so long and it's been you know made so

1641
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:57,760
popular by

1642
00:54:56,079 --> 00:54:59,680
um you know things like critical role or

1643
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,760
the adventure zone

1644
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:04,000
but even they end up branching into

1645
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:07,040
another game every now and then and and

1646
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,960
you can really see the story

1647
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,520
take a different shape

1648
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,799
and a lot of them are so simple to learn

1649
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,760
you know you think of like i don't want

1650
00:55:12,799 --> 00:55:15,200
to learn a new game because you're

1651
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,280
thinking of

1652
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,200
learning something the size of

1653
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:21,040
pathfinder or the something the size of

1654
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,280
dungeon and dragons where a lot of these

1655
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,359
games are one you know 100 page book and

1656
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,200
that's all you need to play

1657
00:55:25,359 --> 00:55:29,119
yeah i must admit i suffer from that

1658
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,799
train of thought of being like

1659
00:55:29,119 --> 00:55:32,880
no matter how much i've played my

1660
00:55:30,799 --> 00:55:34,480
precious fifth edition session to

1661
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,319
session there's still these education

1662
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,920
these niche questions come up that's

1663
00:55:36,319 --> 00:55:39,920
like oh you're carrying but can you

1664
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,200
throw or how many hands do you need to

1665
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,839
do this and this that and the other and

1666
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:46,720
so there's there's never an end to

1667
00:55:43,839 --> 00:55:48,480
the rules based questioning so that when

1668
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:50,000
somebody does suggest do you want to

1669
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:53,040
learn a new system i'm like man i don't

1670
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:54,720
even learn this one yet yeah but

1671
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,040
give me some give me another five years

1672
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:58,400
maybe and we'll get there but uh

1673
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,559
but no i think you're absolutely right

1674
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,200
and that it's they are not you know not

1675
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:05,280
everything has to be that weird

1676
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,280
niche edge case issue for the next five

1677
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,720
years you can just pick it up and play

1678
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,920
and i'm being an extreme hypocrite here

1679
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:11,440
having not had a huge amount of

1680
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,110
experience but

1681
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,839
such is life

1682
00:56:12,110 --> 00:56:15,359
[Laughter]

1683
00:56:13,839 --> 00:56:17,839
we are

1684
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:17,839
a multitude

1685
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:22,400
absolutely absolutely

1686
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,160
cool well uh

1687
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:27,520
thank you ever so much for today's

1688
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:29,920
discussion i'm super stoked with

1689
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:32,000
everything we've discussed i personally

1690
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,520
i i really wanted to talk about that

1691
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,960
you know get some examples of the

1692
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,880
surprise pikachu face because as we

1693
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,079
discussed that it's just there's just

1694
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,000
you know that machiavellian delight

1695
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:41,920
there that can't be that can't that's it

1696
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,599
can't be scratched by many by many other

1697
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,440
things so yeah

1698
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:48,880
we talked about that and then also

1699
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:51,119
obviously the the real world issues um

1700
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,839
and i think because it is that is

1701
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:55,280
important we you and i are in the main

1702
00:56:53,839 --> 00:56:56,799
fortunate enough to have not had that

1703
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,720
but it is exceptionally important to

1704
00:56:56,799 --> 00:57:00,240
many other people so i'm i'm very

1705
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:02,559
thankful for for your insight and your

1706
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:04,559
input on on things such as the you know

1707
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:07,280
the the x card and the

1708
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:08,960
veils and and so on and so on so thank

1709
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,839
you very much for all that

1710
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,640
is

1711
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:14,960
there anything you would like to promote

1712
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,720
uh i mean really if you're interested in

1713
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,880
um learning some of these powered by the

1714
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,880
apocalypse games uh you can find us at

1715
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,160
thecritsshowpodcast.com

1716
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,040
and uh

1717
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:27,359
at the crit show most on most everything

1718
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:30,000
and we

1719
00:57:27,359 --> 00:57:32,000
run our game um in a way that

1720
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,280
after the first story arc you should

1721
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,960
feel comfortable sitting down and

1722
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,720
playing it yourself

1723
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,799
um you know we we try to explain the

1724
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,319
rules as we go without stopping the flow

1725
00:57:38,799 --> 00:57:42,240
of the action so it's a lot of

1726
00:57:40,319 --> 00:57:43,599
explaining how mechanics work to the

1727
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,720
players as they're dealing with them for

1728
00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:47,119
the first time

1729
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,559
and we keep our episodes we come out

1730
00:57:47,119 --> 00:57:51,200
every wednesday

1731
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:54,319
uh and episodes are usually between

1732
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:55,920
35 to 55 minutes so they're very

1733
00:57:54,319 --> 00:57:58,160
digestible and you'll learn a whole

1734
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,319
bunch of new systems but it'll still be

1735
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,640
the same narrative as we go through

1736
00:58:00,319 --> 00:58:03,920
amazing very cool very unique idea i

1737
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,200
think you opened the show with that kind

1738
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,000
of shared

1739
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,359
universe thing yeah which i'm gonna have

1740
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,799
to have you back on again to discuss the

1741
00:58:09,359 --> 00:58:12,720
consequences of running something like

1742
00:58:10,799 --> 00:58:13,760
that uh which is something that we

1743
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,839
didn't get to that i wanted to talk

1744
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,680
about but uh we'll save that one for for

1745
00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:20,079
round two

1746
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,920
no uh so all that's left to say is is

1747
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:22,880
thank you ever so much rev for joining

1748
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,359
us today

1749
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:28,000
yeah my pleasure thanks for having me

1750
00:58:25,359 --> 00:58:31,200
uh thank you everybody for

1751
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,599
listening at home as usual

1752
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,440
all the links to the crit show will be

1753
00:58:33,599 --> 00:58:37,280
in the episode description and i of

1754
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,880
course very much encourage you to check

1755
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,280
them out and drop them a rating as well

1756
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,599
on spotify and the apples and the

1757
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,880
such likes as you could of course do for

1758
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:46,799
thinking critically should you be

1759
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,079
feeling exceptionally generous

1760
00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:50,400
otherwise

1761
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:51,359
thank you all for listening and good

1762
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,960
night

1763
00:58:51,359 --> 00:58:53,920
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1764
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,119
outs

1765
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:59,839
thank you to robert hartley dm for viva

1766
00:58:57,119 --> 00:59:02,079
la dirt league and writer on the d d

1767
00:58:59,839 --> 00:59:03,680
logic web series

1768
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:06,480
i would encourage everybody to check him

1769
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,520
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

1770
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,760
twitch

1771
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:12,160
thank you to optional rule a two time

1772
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,960
guest of the show and a very insightful

1773
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:19,680
and knowledgeable source of information

1774
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:22,480
please check them out at www dot

1775
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,960
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1776
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:27,440
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1777
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,760
out there making hilarious and

1778
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,640
educational dungeons and dragons content

1779
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,280
please go and check out his stuff at

1780
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:35,760
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1781
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:37,280
links to all of his socials and all of

1782
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,960
his content including his own patreon

1783
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,720
which i would very much encourage you to

1784
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,680
check out

1785
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,680
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1786
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,280
on twitter for supporting the show if

1787
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,799
you need support running your personal

1788
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:52,079
or business schedule head to

1789
00:59:49,799 --> 00:59:53,760
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1790
00:59:52,079 --> 00:59:55,839
make that difference between should do

1791
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,599
and done boss it better with support

1792
00:59:55,839 --> 00:59:59,920
from cat who will help you get back that

1793
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:01,359
essential time you've been searching for

1794
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:03,280
if you would like to support what we do

1795
01:00:01,359 --> 01:00:06,000
and get four shout outs a month head

1796
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,520
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1797
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:11,500
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1798
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:18,520
kofi.com thinking critically

1799
01:00:11,500 --> 01:00:38,720
[Music]

 

Rev Profile Photo

Rev

Producer

Rev is the host and GM of The Critshow - a Monster of the Week actual play podcast that features other PBTA games, all within the same dimension hoping narrative. He is also the producer for Critshow Studios where they generate hours of weeks content for patreon and twitch.