Dec. 31, 2021

Business


This episode I had the pleasure of hosting the founder of Paladin Roleplaying, Neil, to discuss running a TTRPG business. We talk about how the grassroots explosion has impacted the hobby, and what the future might now hold; will it go the same way as F2P, microtransaction-laden video games? Neil shares with several pearls of wisdom gained from running a business and four separate Kickstarters - we even have some world exclusive news about their next project! D&D fans, you had better listen! Finally, one aspect often undercooked in games is managing a business, despite the often mercantile nature of most settings. We workshop fun and interesting ways to bring this element into your games, one of which is cribbing from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay where classes are known as careers, enabling rich RP opportunities!

Listeners can use the code THINKCRIT15 at paladinroleplaying.com for 15% off your whole cart! Huge thank you to Neil and all at Paladin.

  • 04:50 - The Changing Nature of TTRPGs
  • 16:16 - Starting a TTRPG Business
  • 26:27 - The Kickstarter Experience
  • 36:26 - Thinking Critically Exclusive!
  • 38:07 - Systems for Running Businesses

Find Neil on:

Find me on:

References:

Patrons:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

This episode was not sponsored or supported in any way.

Transcript

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welcome and happy new year thinkers to

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season 3 episode 10 of thinking

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critically i hope you all had a lovely

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christmas

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today's episode is business and stick

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around to the end for a holiday gift

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from our guest

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by neil from

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paladin role playing thank you ever so

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much for joining us today neil can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself

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hi so

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yeah i've been role playing for

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a pretty long time

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without giving away how old i am i

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started

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with uh d or a d and d as it was called

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then of course uh second edition

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and why i'm a fancy roleplay first

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edition when that first came out they

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were my introduction to

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role-playing world

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and

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kept me going for many many happy years

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i guess

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like probably like a lot of people at

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least of my generation i think

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i i kind of

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not entirely drifted out of it as i got

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older um a bit you know just not not

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quite seriously didn't have as much time

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you know real life comes along and all

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that boring stuff you know it is

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and then sort of picked it up again a

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few years back

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and

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in 2017

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i'm pretty sure i think that's right um

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i

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started paladin role playing and

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we make

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dice and other accessories for

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role-playing games and so i've been much

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more kind of involved in the not just

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playing and running games but much more

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kind of involved in the role-playing

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world in the industry i guess in the

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last uh

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four or five years or so

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indeed and i mean

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i have a paladin pencil here i have my

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bag of holding downstairs and that's

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that's the genesis of

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this discussion is is from

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me you know finding you guys in line i

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think i did back the kickstart i do have

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the dice somewhere but then again i also

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have a lot of dice so

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um yes i did back there for the first

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kickstarter you guys did and that's you

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know way back probably

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yeah yeah not long after 2017 i imagine

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it probably was actually yeah it

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probably was

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yeah yeah and then picked up obviously

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these other few bits and bobs and then i

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was like let's let's get

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let's get let's get them on

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let's make it happen

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um so

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aptly the topic of today's discussion is

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business so what does that mean to you

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in the ttrpg framework

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well

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i think

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so this probably goes without saying but

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it may be worth saying anyway that

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for me

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starting

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a business

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in

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the role-playing world

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um was

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an attempt to try and make a living

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doing

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something or being involved with

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something that i love doing you know

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it's everyone's dream right you you want

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to get the job as the famous footballer

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or the whatever singer whatever it is

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you're into

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um

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and so

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i think as a as a small business owner

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uh but doing something that i love uh

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i'm trying to kind of get back to that

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almost

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no this is quite the right way to put it

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but i kind of think of that feudal sort

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of idea of where there's no distinction

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between work and play yeah and and so

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that's

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you know it doesn't always work out that

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way needless to say but um that's that's

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the aim is so i think

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my my hope anyway my kind of dream for

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for what business means to me

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uh is

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that it's not

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going to work

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and then that's that's the bit you hate

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and then you come home and you have and

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and then you have fun and then you have

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your nice uh off work time you know work

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and play separate is it's an attempt to

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make work also more like play

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that that's that's the dream

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you know how pertinent this is because

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literally i'm starting a new job next

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week here no way

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which isn't quite that ideal um but uh

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it is in that direction so uh yeah it's

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it's i'm i you know

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it's you know big kudos for stepping out

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there and trying to achieve that thing

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as you said that's that's the that's the

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golden goose right that's what

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yeah you know everybody everybody

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strives for yeah

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so

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i want one question then

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like although i am um you know i've

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studied business studies throughout my

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academic life so i'm aware of the

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academic side of business but then in

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terms of like

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running a tt rpg business are there any

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any anything specific to

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you know to the tt rpg space that would

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differentiate it from running say like a

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mcdonald's franchise that's a crap

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example because

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yes because one's a high street retail

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store that sells fast food but

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but you know what i mean

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yeah anything specific for for ttrpgs

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well i

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i think

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and you could probably say this about

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any any business i think you

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you probably have to

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be a gamer

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which obviously i am to to kind of

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understand the world but i guess that's

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you not unique to this space say the

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same for any business

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um but i think it's interesting we're in

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a

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you know this has been called i'm sure

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you've heard this people say this this

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has been called the golden age for

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tabletop role-playing yeah and i think

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that's right actually

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i don't think there's been a better time

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to be alive and being into tabletop

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role-playing and this the

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the growth

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of the area and the amount of creativity

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and the new games that are coming out

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all the time and kickstarter obviously

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has had a lot of

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uh it's had a lot to do with that and so

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what i think is happening though is that

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inevitably things are changing because

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as it becomes more popular

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and you know

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as an aside uh

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i love now that our hobby is

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like it's still a kind of nerdy geeky

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guy yeah obviously it always will be but

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it's kind of

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got a level of acceptability now isn't

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it do you know what i mean yeah and to

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the extent that i've got had a new new

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neighbor

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uh moved in literally uh like a month or

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so ago um and i met her for the first

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time you know outside on the street and

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you you know you obviously say hello

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and i happened to be wearing a paladin

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role-playing hoodie at the time and she

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sort of asked what i did and i kind of

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you know i gave her the sort of two-line

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introduction

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and always slightly you know i can't

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help but feel slightly kind of

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i don't know what's the word like uh not

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apprehensive but yeah not you don't

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censor it but there's it's tailored

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shall we say to her yeah yeah yeah yeah

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and and her reaction was oh cool yeah i

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played a bit of dungeon dragons a couple

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of years ago and i really want to play

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more and

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i think

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for you to say that you're into

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role-playing and for someone to say cool

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it is a thing now that happens

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we're not just the kind of uh

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kind of

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ridiculous nurse

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who just yeah exactly

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so anyway uh i can't remember where i

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was going that but um yeah so it's

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growing anyway i think it's growing and

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more people are aware of the hobby and

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then and the yeah this kind of world

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but i think that's going to change

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things and i hope it's not for the worse

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and particularly

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from a business point of view

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as it gets bigger and bigger and more

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more money comes into

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you know into play that will inevitably

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change things and now you know we're

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we're in a situation now where there are

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tt rpg

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superstars you've got you know yes

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matthew mercer and the libertarians yeah

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and and fair enough and i've got nothing

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against those guys and and critical role

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is great

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but

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you know they

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make and command big money and so that

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means big sponsorships

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and you know they've got the

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the sort of biggest companies obviously

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being wizards and paiso and

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they're growing and and i just hope that

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it doesn't all become more corporate and

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just more money oriented that's that's

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my fear that's like my worst case

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scenario

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i don't think it is yet

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and i hope it doesn't but i think we're

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in a time of change at least

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absolutely and i think one thing that's

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become clear since doing the show is

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that

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well that basically that it's a

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transitionary period uh i couldn't you

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know maybe at the beginning maybe

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approach approaching the middle i'm not

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sure but between you know talking to

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everybody from from all walks of life

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and whatnot there is there is definitely

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that sense i can definitely pick up from

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all these conversations that yeah it's

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definitely a time of

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change but one thing i wanted to add

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there you were mentioning you know like

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how or more mainstream it is and then

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the resources available and it was just

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making me think about and i know the two

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are there's a positive correlation

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between the two but obviously like

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between technology so like now if you

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want to change a tire or build your own

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00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,080
pc you can just google it and see five

274
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,720
billion youtubes about how to do it you

275
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,680
know

276
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:32,080
and my teenage nephews don't you know

277
00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:33,330
i'm only you know in my 30s back in my

278
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,040
day uh you know

279
00:09:33,330 --> 00:09:36,560
[Laughter]

280
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,640
i had to build my own computer and had

281
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:40,880
to hope that the cpu would work with the

282
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,160
mainboard now you can just get someone

283
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,880
to do it for you for

284
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:47,279
pennies um yeah and but the same thing

285
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,600
is for ttrpg so i imagine back in the

286
00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:51,760
day before my time

287
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,920
that it was it was a lot of a smaller

288
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,320
niche fringe you know everything was

289
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,720
hard copies and books and you traded

290
00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,959
books and you only had paper sheets

291
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,040
whereas now you know and you know

292
00:10:00,959 --> 00:10:04,800
maybe there were more than more ttrpgs

293
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,200
but obviously dnd is the big the big

294
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,120
gear biggest one whereas now it's like

295
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,760
if you don't like dnd

296
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,680
okay we'll just google and go on hio or

297
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,640
kickstarter and there's 50 bazillion

298
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:18,399
other yeah roleplaying games that one of

299
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,000
those is gonna take all your boxes

300
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,000
and it's it could be free it could be

301
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,839
five pounds it could be you know

302
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,440
whatever and there could be a dedicated

303
00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:27,600
hardcore group of players out there that

304
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,440
are dying to play with you

305
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,839
you don't know how to roll a character

306
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,200
here's an online

307
00:10:30,839 --> 00:10:34,800
generator building an encounter here's

308
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,040
an online generator for you it's it's

309
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,000
like mad how

310
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,200
easy

311
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,959
it is

312
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,360
just to just to pick up and play

313
00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:45,680
anything like i i

314
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,399
it's for shame shame on me but i have

315
00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:48,079
not

316
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:50,160
really dipped my toe in those pools

317
00:10:48,079 --> 00:10:52,079
before but now you know if someone were

318
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,360
to just google i want to play a role

319
00:10:52,079 --> 00:10:55,360
playing game

320
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,279
they're laughing all the way to the bank

321
00:10:55,360 --> 00:11:00,000
absolutely and and the thing is for me

322
00:10:57,279 --> 00:11:01,519
that the you know the 50 gazillion games

323
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:05,279
that aren't d

324
00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:08,079
there's so much creativity

325
00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:10,480
in this in the ttrpg world and there's

326
00:11:08,079 --> 00:11:11,360
just some people doing amazing stuff and

327
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,680
so

328
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,279
it's at least in my opinion uh it's not

329
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,519
the case that you've got

330
00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:19,600
the sort of i don't know four or five

331
00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:21,760
big games maybe you know d d pathfinder

332
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,040
vampire or whatever yeah and they're the

333
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,519
only good ones and all the rest of

334
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,519
rubbish that's not the case at all

335
00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:29,440
those 50 gazillion games most of them

336
00:11:27,519 --> 00:11:31,200
are really good

337
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,000
and for me that's really exciting that

338
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,839
there's just this whole wealth of of

339
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,399
cool stuff to explore

340
00:11:35,839 --> 00:11:40,160
yeah yeah absolutely and then the other

341
00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:42,240
thing i wanted to mention there about

342
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,760
it's a concern that you've highlighted

343
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,800
to me now and now i'm also concerned

344
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:50,800
about it in terms of the uh

345
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,800
commercialization maybe shall we say and

346
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,720
it's

347
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,320
happened happening uh maybe i'm being

348
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,560
naive but there's always been an element

349
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,680
there with video games and certainly now

350
00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:04,320
with kind of like micro transactions and

351
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:07,200
um you know season passes and free to

352
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,480
play and all that kind of stuff that has

353
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,440
seen

354
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,440
uh certainly to the like original fans

355
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,079
has negatively impacted their experience

356
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,040
of

357
00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:18,959
of games and it is it's purely because

358
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,600
that's the way to make money

359
00:12:18,959 --> 00:12:24,240
nowadays is to offer these you know 30

360
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:27,040
quid a month for a season pass or which

361
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,040
i always find is weirdly ironic because

362
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,760
mmo rpgs obviously world of warcraft

363
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,120
being the dnd equivalent

364
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,639
you know that was mad back in the day

365
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,120
when i first started playing that to pay

366
00:12:34,639 --> 00:12:39,200
12 quid a month yeah right really

367
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,279
reluctant weren't they like yeah

368
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,639
yeah and then and then it so that was

369
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:44,079
fine and then it got really popular so

370
00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:46,720
everyone was like okay i guess this is

371
00:12:44,079 --> 00:12:48,399
normal but then it got out of fashion

372
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,160
again because people like well eve at

373
00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:51,839
the time was free and there's other ones

374
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,440
that are free and why would you pay that

375
00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:55,360
and then now suddenly everyone's paying

376
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,760
for season passes every month again

377
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,680
yeah right let's just keep going going

378
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,040
around in circles um

379
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,160
so yeah that that

380
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,760
that and obviously

381
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,839
a new one now is i think both cotton

382
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,600
battlefield are getting not a lot of

383
00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:09,120
love from from the fans because they're

384
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,519
like this is just

385
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,839
lazy cash crap at this point just to get

386
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:14,800
people to pay for xp boosts and whatnot

387
00:13:13,839 --> 00:13:16,320
um

388
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,440
and it's a shame for the fans because

389
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,399
you know they're their franchises and

390
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,920
they don't like to see them yeah

391
00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:23,120
absolutely of course you know turned

392
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:25,040
into these cash cows uh devoid of any

393
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,680
class or character so i think

394
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,120
i it was right for you to say like

395
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:31,200
that's definitely a path that could

396
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,399
happen because i think unfortunately a

397
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,200
natural

398
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:37,519
outcome of yeah capitalism

399
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,320
i think the one thing that we do have

400
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:41,040
massively in our favor is that

401
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,079
or

402
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,279
for to play a role playing game or table

403
00:13:44,079 --> 00:13:49,360
top role playing playing game

404
00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:52,079
specifically all you need is a book and

405
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,079
probably some dice maybe not even dice

406
00:13:52,079 --> 00:13:55,839
but you've probably got them anyway

407
00:13:54,079 --> 00:13:56,959
and so it's a very low barrier to entry

408
00:13:55,839 --> 00:13:58,880
it's very cheap in fact you don't even

409
00:13:56,959 --> 00:14:01,600
need a physical book you can get a pdf

410
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:04,800
most of the time yeah and so

411
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,639
it also makes it quite easy for a

412
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,160
creator or something maybe someone who's

413
00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:10,000
not even a creator yet but just someone

414
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,560
with an idea

415
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:15,440
to write something down and like say put

416
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:17,519
it on itch or kickstart it or whatever

417
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,360
and so i think it's quite

418
00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:21,760
accessible and so i think there'll

419
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,360
always be that grassroots

420
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,399
creator where you know not everyone can

421
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,399
sit down

422
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:30,959
on their own and write a video game

423
00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:33,040
just you know the skills needed are

424
00:14:30,959 --> 00:14:34,399
way beyond most people but

425
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,000
after you've played a certain number of

426
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:38,399
role-playing uh tabletop role-playing

427
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,120
games you you could actually think i've

428
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:43,920
got a cool idea and just do it and so i

429
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,440
think hopefully that kind of grassroots

430
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,279
thing of people doing their own stuff

431
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,480
and you know at the simplest level

432
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:51,760
you've got the likes of the kind of

433
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:54,399
one-page game yes yeah okay grant howard

434
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,480
has put out absolutely tons of them all

435
00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:58,880
with very silly names like sexy battle

436
00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:01,279
wizards

437
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,199
i can't think of any others though

438
00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:04,720
but yeah you remembered the best one so

439
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:06,720
yeah exactly yeah

440
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,199
in in sexy battle wizards you you have

441
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:12,160
three stats which are sexy battle and

442
00:15:09,199 --> 00:15:13,519
wizard okay yep good that's basically it

443
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,360
and the whole game's on one page one

444
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:17,120
piece of paper it's great

445
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,480
i was gonna say like along with

446
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,079
everybody you know

447
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,600
that that low barrier to entry as you

448
00:15:20,079 --> 00:15:24,160
said there's also

449
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,240
the simplistic side of things and

450
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,800
maybe uh simplistic is doing it a

451
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,399
disservice the concise side of things

452
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,680
you know where people are just like i

453
00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:33,920
want to have a role-playing experience

454
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,399
but i don't want to read a 300 page

455
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,519
handbook which is yeah more than fair

456
00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:38,560
enough

457
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:40,320
sure

458
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,800
and yeah and i mean that feeds into this

459
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,639
eternal discussion that we role players

460
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,040
love to have about crunch and whether

461
00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:48,240
crunch is good or bad and the

462
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,160
merits of

463
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,480
um you know more

464
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,120
so-called realistic kind of games that

465
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,120
go for very similitude like i don't know

466
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,839
pathfinder or something there's tons of

467
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:02,079
tables and tons of rules and then the

468
00:15:59,839 --> 00:16:05,040
the newer kind of breed of

469
00:16:02,079 --> 00:16:07,199
storytelling games with very very little

470
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,880
rules and i personally i like somewhere

471
00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:10,880
in the middle yeah but that's you know

472
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,199
but i appreciate that's completely

473
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:16,800
personal taste and there's both sides

474
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:17,680
aren't there yeah for sure for sure um

475
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,639
so

476
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,959
around

477
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:23,040
so what it's 2017 you said you started

478
00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:25,600
the paladin role playing

479
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,440
do you have any i guess lessons lessons

480
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,959
learned from that experience i

481
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,079
would assume the answer is yes of course

482
00:16:28,959 --> 00:16:32,720
because it's

483
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:35,920
quite a risky risky you know potentially

484
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:38,000
stressful endeavor so uh

485
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,480
what did you what did you learn from

486
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,279
from that experience uh any

487
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,040
pitfalls you you didn't see like wow

488
00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:47,680
making dice was way harder than i

489
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,680
anticipated

490
00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:51,040
um

491
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,920
well i i mean i'm pleased to say i don't

492
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,199
think

493
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,279
i made any

494
00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:57,440
dramatic

495
00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:59,199
errors of course i made lots and lots of

496
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,079
kind of small errors there's you know

497
00:16:59,199 --> 00:17:04,880
there's the whole thing about

498
00:17:02,079 --> 00:17:06,319
starting your own business which is

499
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,640
nothing to do with

500
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:11,199
what the business does but just you know

501
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,520
there's all kinds of stuff is you know

502
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:16,640
either you have to know about or find

503
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,559
out about or pay someone to know about

504
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,480
accountancy and market marketing and

505
00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:22,079
bookkeeping and taxes and all that very

506
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,720
dull stuff

507
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:26,480
which is you know it was just a big

508
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,200
very steep learning curve for me because

509
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,559
i didn't know about most of those things

510
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,799
i'm still

511
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:35,039
having a massive headache with taxes

512
00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:37,200
particularly international taxes and and

513
00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:40,960
shipping especially since brexit

514
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:42,960
yeah it's a enormous nightmare

515
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,440
but you know it's

516
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,039
i kind of see that as like the

517
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,360
sort of the cost of entry in a way you

518
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:51,600
know that's just stuff i've got to do

519
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:53,440
because otherwise i can't do the

520
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,320
the good stuff which is getting dice

521
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:58,160
into people's tables

522
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,840
so so there there's all that kind of

523
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:05,120
stuff um i think for me

524
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:09,039
this might sound odd but i think

525
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:12,000
when i started i i almost sort of

526
00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:14,000
tried to be too professional

527
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,480
okay it makes any sense at all and what

528
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,240
i mean is what i discovered is that it's

529
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,280
actually much better

530
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,600
for me just to be myself and so i'm very

531
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,799
much at the face of paladin role-playing

532
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,120
and

533
00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:29,520
that's kind of deliberate because

534
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:30,880
i want paladin to be a company that

535
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,840
people know

536
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,919
has

537
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,000
real people behind it

538
00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:38,080
and that means that they know they can

539
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,520
come and talk to us and and they do and

540
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,559
that's great so

541
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,440
whether that's

542
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:45,280
good or bad you know people

543
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,960
write to me and and say how much they're

544
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,200
enjoying using their new dice or

545
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,480
whatever and then we maybe get chatting

546
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,559
about what game they play and stuff like

547
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,480
that and that's a really nice fun kind

548
00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:56,640
of enjoyable interaction that

549
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,799
makes my day a bit nicer and then

550
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,559
equally and just probably more important

551
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:02,880
in a way is if people aren't happy for

552
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:04,080
any reason they also feel like they can

553
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,840
get in touch

554
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,640
and talk to a real person because they

555
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,919
can

556
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,400
and then

557
00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:12,160
i do whatever i can to sort out the

558
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,080
problem and

559
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,320
i think that's much better and and so to

560
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,160
start with i almost like felt like well

561
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,000
i'm i'm just i'm just me i'm just some

562
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,080
bloke and you know i should have this

563
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,760
very professional almost i suppose

564
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,039
talking about not wanting things to get

565
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,039
corporate i was almost thinking like

566
00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:28,400
what's the company like and it's all

567
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,000
about the logo and do you know what i

568
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,760
mean yeah and i thought that's what i

569
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,600
need to do that's the professional yeah

570
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:36,240
i need i need like a customer service

571
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:39,120
department who you know a staff 24 7 and

572
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,320
yeah yeah all of that exactly and

573
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,000
and actually

574
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,679
i don't you know i think people

575
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,320
appreciate the fact that we're a small

576
00:19:43,679 --> 00:19:49,360
family-run company and

577
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,280
yeah they they can talk to us and and so

578
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:54,000
that's not really less professional

579
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,679
professionals wrong word to use but it's

580
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,080
i think i've learned that i don't need

581
00:19:55,679 --> 00:20:00,080
to project this sort of

582
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,000
more corporate kind of image

583
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,760
and it's much nicer not to actually as

584
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,440
well

585
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,280
i mean hey that's that's how we ended up

586
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,640
talking today because i i well it's

587
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,080
certainly working whatever it is you're

588
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,919
doing it's certainly working because i

589
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,520
took i took the i rolled the dice if

590
00:20:11,919 --> 00:20:14,960
you're pardon the phrase and uh yeah

591
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,280
dropped you an email and look okay look

592
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,799
at where we are today so i'm uh

593
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:22,320
it's certainly working something you're

594
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:23,919
doing something right good thank you

595
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,559
it may be only that

596
00:20:23,919 --> 00:20:26,559
but it's something

597
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,880
okay awesome cool um

598
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,440
yeah it's it's have i ever thought about

599
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,559
i'm trying to wrap my head um

600
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,559
a couple of my close friends and i

601
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:40,320
always used to joke like the four of us

602
00:20:38,559 --> 00:20:41,760
should when we've all been like unhappy

603
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,960
with our jobs at certain parts in our

604
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,799
life we've always been like right you

605
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,120
can be the face of the company you can

606
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,720
do the maths the account in there yeah

607
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:50,720
you could do the marketing but it's not

608
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,600
it's never really you know we don't have

609
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:56,320
a product so uh

610
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:58,880
which is usually 101 yeah yeah yeah it

611
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,200
kind of helps yeah

612
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,400
so in terms of the the stuff then

613
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,799
that you

614
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,320
do on paladin and this is like just for

615
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:07,440
the the listeners benefit this isn't

616
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,120
like

617
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,360
a paid thing or whatever i'm just

618
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:13,360
generally i have the products i'm

619
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,440
interested in i'm generally interested

620
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,559
in business and running a business and

621
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,520
as you said

622
00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:21,760
running a business in in a a hobby that

623
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,720
you know you love or i love is super

624
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,799
interesting so i'm genuinely curious in

625
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,080
terms of like the design of a couple of

626
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:29,039
products and maybe the dice and stuff is

627
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,919
that all in-house as well as that

628
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:32,960
yourself was that friends or family

629
00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:35,520
so

630
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,559
in terms of design

631
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,320
that's

632
00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:40,480
all totally in-house

633
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,640
um and mainly me

634
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,200
but with lots of input from

635
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,480
friends family other you know people in

636
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,120
the industry and whatever and whoever's

637
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,679
brain i can pick basically um but yeah

638
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,120
design is is all entirely in-house we

639
00:21:51,679 --> 00:21:54,640
come up with everything

640
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,159
ourselves

641
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,280
and

642
00:21:56,159 --> 00:22:00,080
i do

643
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,919
have uh probably at this point

644
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,200
two or three

645
00:22:01,919 --> 00:22:05,039
really good

646
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,799
uh graphic designers

647
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:08,960
that i've used you know who are just

648
00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:10,240
kind of freelance but who i kind of go

649
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,440
back to

650
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:16,720
whenever we need graphics or

651
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:20,320
mock-ups or you know whatever arty stuff

652
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,039
so because i'm not arty in that sense

653
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,400
but

654
00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:24,000
i've got

655
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,039
and again this just kind of comes back

656
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,919
to knowing the market because i am in

657
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:31,760
you know i am the target market myself

658
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:34,640
so the i kind of just like to make

659
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,039
things that i really like which are cool

660
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,280
and so or which i can't get hold of you

661
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,440
know if i'm like oh i really like uh

662
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,360
some dice of this particular kind of

663
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,400
design that for a character i'm playing

664
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,240
let's say

665
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,120
and then i look around and i can't find

666
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,640
any

667
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:51,039
then for me straight away that's a

668
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,039
signal ah okay this is interesting

669
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:55,200
nobody seems to be doing this

670
00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:57,600
why don't why don't i do that yeah

671
00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,000
actually some of our best

672
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,240
or most popular things have come and

673
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,520
this again is part of of

674
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,280
people feeling that they can come and

675
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,640
talk to us have actually been customer

676
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,720
requests

677
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,720
so you know people sometimes email and

678
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,159
say i'd love it if you did

679
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,280
whatever let me see if i can think of an

680
00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:18,400
example also there so we do a pack of 10

681
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,559
red d4s for as for healing potions

682
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,760
health potion ones yeah yeah

683
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,760
and

684
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,600
that was not my idea that was one of our

685
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,039
customers who said i'd love to and

686
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,039
actually now they're very common when we

687
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:31,360
first came out with them they weren't so

688
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:33,520
kind of easy to get i'm not saying that

689
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,640
people are copying us by any means no no

690
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,480
of course not

691
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,480
in any case that's the way it works out

692
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,600
yeah um

693
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,080
so

694
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,400
yeah and as soon as i got that message i

695
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,080
thought well of course that's obviously

696
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,120
a great idea

697
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,799
so we started doing that and then

698
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:51,200
they've been really popular so

699
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,720
i can't claim credit actually for for

700
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,159
everything this is this is where your

701
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,679
house of cards comes falling down it's

702
00:23:54,159 --> 00:23:57,200
like oh actually this set of dice and

703
00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:58,240
this bag and this thing is all actually

704
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,200
other people

705
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,640
yeah

706
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,760
it's the pyramid scheme neil you've made

707
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,000
it yeah

708
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,960
yeah that's right exactly damn this is

709
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,960
actually an expose

710
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,080
one parallel actually i wanted to say

711
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:14,240
between

712
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,799
obviously paladin and think critically

713
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,240
is that i get asked to similar

714
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:19,919
well i get asked the question from a

715
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,440
couple of guests that come on

716
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:22,640
and they say you know they wanted to do

717
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,559
their homework then and do some

718
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,600
preparation they say what's your who are

719
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:27,760
the kind of people that listen to your

720
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,200
show and maybe that's because they want

721
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,640
to make sure they're talking about the

722
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,840
right thing maybe they want to know you

723
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,880
know just who they're who they're

724
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,279
talking to

725
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,880
and now you've mentioned it

726
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:38,320
it's i just need to say like people like

727
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,919
me because

728
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,360
because for the exact same reason that's

729
00:24:39,919 --> 00:24:42,559
why i did the show because i was like i

730
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,919
don't know if there's anything like this

731
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:45,200
and i think it'll be a good idea and i'd

732
00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:46,799
listen to it

733
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,600
and so yeah that's quite a nice little

734
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:52,960
parallel there between the two uh of

735
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,760
like it's people like me

736
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,760
yeah

737
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,159
and i and i've always thought that's the

738
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,159
best thing to do

739
00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:01,360
in business you know if if there's

740
00:25:00,159 --> 00:25:03,120
something you're passionate about and

741
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,200
that

742
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,360
you you know make things for people like

743
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,679
you and if because then you you've got

744
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,480
an inbuilt quality control if you love

745
00:25:09,679 --> 00:25:13,200
it

746
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:16,000
then other people like you will love it

747
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:18,880
and that's a lot easier than

748
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,679
making things for people who aren't like

749
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,520
you

750
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:24,000
and then you don't

751
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,520
have then this kind of instinctive

752
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,440
feeling for whether it's a great product

753
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,840
a good product or a mediocre product or

754
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,279
even a terrible product because you you

755
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,279
would never be

756
00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:35,440
the market for it anyway so i think to

757
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:37,200
me that's kind of a no-brainer in a way

758
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,039
yeah and also to

759
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,880
definitely bring us back to ctrpg's

760
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:42,400
another common thread that we've heard

761
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,919
in the in the show is

762
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,720
you know when you're running a game run

763
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:48,799
the game that you would want to play

764
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,720
set the game you want a set you would

765
00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:51,840
want to play in and it's a similar theme

766
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,679
of like

767
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,200
if you you know obviously make sure

768
00:25:53,679 --> 00:25:56,960
everyone's having fun and whatnot but

769
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,720
those standards you know there's

770
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,880
something to strive for and it's

771
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,760
it it will work

772
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,520
yeah

773
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,559
yeah i agree completely and if you're

774
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,159
trying to cater to other people and to

775
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:10,320
the extent you're

776
00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:11,360
not doing what you want to do apart from

777
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,799
anything else you're just not going to

778
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,159
enjoy it and

779
00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:16,799
you know i always like to kind of

780
00:26:14,159 --> 00:26:18,640
emphasize that the the g in rpg is the

781
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:20,240
most important bit it's it's a game and

782
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,600
we're supposed to be having fun when we

783
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,799
play so

784
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:27,360
if we're not something's wrong there

785
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:30,320
yeah absolutely

786
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:31,919
we mentioned it earlier on around uh

787
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,080
kickstarter

788
00:26:31,919 --> 00:26:35,360
now this is what do i

789
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,200
this might be a surprise to some people

790
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,720
but i'm not i'd

791
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,840
i could count on one hand the number of

792
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,559
kickstarters i've i've backed okay one

793
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,000
of which is yours um thank you

794
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:48,240
gloomhaven and frosthaven on my other

795
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,080
two uh

796
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,400
the ball games uh and then i think there

797
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,799
are a couple of others so i'm not what

798
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,799
i'm getting at is i'm not

799
00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:58,080
it's oh god i'm gonna sound super old

800
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,159
now but

801
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,320
it's still a bit of a like a black box

802
00:27:00,159 --> 00:27:05,600
to me in terms of like

803
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,360
how really it works and like obviously i

804
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,880
get the idea you're funding something

805
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:10,880
that may or may not happen and blah blah

806
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,360
but in terms of like

807
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,799
i again i just sound like a super boomer

808
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:16,400
but you know it's still not quite the

809
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:17,440
same it's just you know buying a product

810
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,120
so

811
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,520
yeah how has your experience of

812
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:22,880
kickstarter being from the other side of

813
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,960
that coin you know from the other side

814
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,559
of the screen

815
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,520
pardon the metaphor there

816
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,120
yeah

817
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,810
it's

818
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:32,960
kickstarter is a it's a thing um

819
00:27:31,810 --> 00:27:35,520
[Music]

820
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,799
so our first kickstarter failed actually

821
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,799
oh and learned a massive amount from

822
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:42,000
that well in fact technically it didn't

823
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:44,080
fail uh

824
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,000
because we cancelled it

825
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,360
before it had a chance to but it was

826
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,360
okay it was clear that it was never

827
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,720
going to reach its funding goal

828
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,520
and

829
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,480
that

830
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:56,799
that was because of the basically of the

831
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,000
we just got the numbers wrong

832
00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:59,760
so

833
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,200
i think i can't it's a while ago now so

834
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,679
i can't remember the exact details but i

835
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,520
think the idea was to have

836
00:28:03,679 --> 00:28:07,840
a whole new range of dice in lots of

837
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,120
different colors and

838
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,960
because it was lots of different colors

839
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,640
then that meant the stretch goal had to

840
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,760
be quite high so that we could make all

841
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,600
of them

842
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,840
and what i never did which is actually

843
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,720
such a stupid thing with hindsight is i

844
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,080
never sat down and said right if the

845
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,240
cost

846
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,080
of a set of dice is x

847
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,279
and the target

848
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:32,240
to be funded is why how many sets of

849
00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:33,679
dice or how many backers do we need to

850
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,880
hit the target

851
00:28:33,679 --> 00:28:37,120
which you'd have thought would be a

852
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,600
pretty basic thing to do but for some

853
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:42,000
reason it never occurred to me

854
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,000
and it was just way too many it was just

855
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,440
far far too many because we'd set the

856
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,159
target just

857
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,200
just too high yeah and particularly as a

858
00:28:48,159 --> 00:28:52,720
first time creator on kickstarter this

859
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,799
is something that

860
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,559
that people really look for

861
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:58,000
if you're

862
00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:00,320
on a you know on your second third

863
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,480
fourth tenth whatever if you've had

864
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,799
multiple successful kickstarters before

865
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,000
people are much more likely to back your

866
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:08,960
project

867
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,480
because you've got a proven history of

868
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,360
delivery

869
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,520
and

870
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,200
the sad thing is there are

871
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,919
i don't think there's many but there are

872
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,799
kickstarters that never deliver

873
00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:21,039
yeah

874
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:22,640
and that's partly some of those and i'd

875
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:24,960
like to think most of the those that

876
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,720
don't deliver is just because something

877
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,039
goes drastically wrong yeah it's a

878
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,279
genuine reason yeah it's actually never

879
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:33,279
any ill intention there are very very

880
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:35,360
small percentage and i think it's tiny

881
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:38,640
actually but it does happen of people

882
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,000
who are just doing it as a scam just

883
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,919
they have no intention of ever making

884
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,000
anything just take the money and run

885
00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:46,240
um but kickstarter obviously are pretty

886
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,760
good at detecting that and trying to

887
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,080
stop it and i don't think it happens

888
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,039
much yeah but but in any case people are

889
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,760
nervous of first-time creators yes

890
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:55,600
so

891
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,600
it's much easier now in our in our last

892
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,000
one that only just finished uh a couple

893
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,399
of months ago that was our well our

894
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,559
fourth in total third successful one we

895
00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:05,919
had a huge advantage because not only

896
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:07,760
are there all our

897
00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:08,640
previous customers who've found our

898
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,720
stuff

899
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,880
elsewhere there's also all the previous

900
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,320
people who backed the kickstarter number

901
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,919
one or number two

902
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,760
so then straight away when you launch

903
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:20,080
you've got this sort of ready-made group

904
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,080
of people who already know what you do

905
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,360
and like it and just jump on board and

906
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,120
so you get this boost right at the

907
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,039
beginning and then that looks really

908
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,240
good then to anyone else because anyone

909
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:30,080
else looks at it and goes oh look

910
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,000
they've only been this is only started

911
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,600
two days ago and they've already got x

912
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,279
amount yeah and then you get the

913
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,799
snowball effect

914
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:39,120
and that's really important for that's

915
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:40,960
super important for kickstarter

916
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,799
if other people are backing it

917
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,640
then it looks

918
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:46,880
it looks good and and then other people

919
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,960
think oh this is popular uh maybe i

920
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,919
should get on board there's all these

921
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,760
kind of things to think about it's it's

922
00:30:51,919 --> 00:30:55,760
yeah it's a bit of a headache it's i

923
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:59,440
mean it's a lot of fun i absolutely love

924
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,880
doing kickstarters but it is so intense

925
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,279
because you've got to be super involved

926
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,840
as well so i i reply to every single

927
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:07,039
comment and we get you know when a

928
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,640
kickstarter's running normally get a lot

929
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:09,679
of emails as well

930
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,240
and

931
00:31:09,679 --> 00:31:13,440
you're constantly well hopefully hitting

932
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,600
stretch goals then you have to update

933
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,600
the project page every time to kind of

934
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,240
reflect the new stretch goals and

935
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,159
sending out updates to people and it's

936
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,600
it's a lot of work

937
00:31:22,159 --> 00:31:24,799
and you're trying to because things are

938
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,880
coming in all the time because of

939
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:28,399
different time zones around the world

940
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,640
you find yourself kind of staying up

941
00:31:28,399 --> 00:31:33,200
really late and kind of hitting refresh

942
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,559
just like hitting f5

943
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,919
yeah because you're almost a stretch

944
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:37,600
goal and you think i want to go to bed

945
00:31:35,919 --> 00:31:40,159
but i need to if i hit this stretch go i

946
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,399
need to update the page so a better way

947
00:31:40,159 --> 00:31:44,320
it's that kind of thing i yeah i have i

948
00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:46,480
have heard and seen you know you know

949
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,080
people waiting and just hitting that f5

950
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,080
just to see if they hit the goal and

951
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,480
then the you know the uh the party

952
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,519
poppers come out and uh yeah exactly

953
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,120
yeah

954
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,880
it must be quite

955
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,559
an exhausting but exhilarating

956
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,640
experience i have to say because i'm

957
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:02,880
quite unique about that like just

958
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,840
watching the numbers come in wow

959
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,120
couldn't have made i could have made it

960
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,799
sound more dull when in fact it's

961
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,399
probably super

962
00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:10,559
no

963
00:32:08,399 --> 00:32:13,440
it's super exciting and

964
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:14,880
the engagement is is great i love just

965
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,080
chatting with people and you know people

966
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,919
get excited about the project and

967
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,919
and you know share it and that's that's

968
00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:23,519
just really exciting and and quite sort

969
00:32:21,919 --> 00:32:25,519
of humbling in a way you know if you get

970
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:27,120
a lot of people just really digging what

971
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:28,960
you're doing it's it's really you know

972
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,279
just makes you think oh cool that's you

973
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,519
know this was the right thing to do and

974
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:35,200
that's that's super nice i love that

975
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:37,840
oh amazing that's

976
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,840
that's that's not lovely to hear as well

977
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,399
you i i will say though

978
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,919
if you can my advice is as a

979
00:32:42,399 --> 00:32:45,760
this is a bit

980
00:32:43,919 --> 00:32:48,559
against it's whatever the opposite of

981
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,880
self-serving is of it but um as someone

982
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:53,519
who's not massively into kickstarter you

983
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:57,760
will save yourself a lot of money if you

984
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:59,360
don't ever become into kickstarter

985
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,919
because i've got the habit of checking

986
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,080
kickstarter pretty regularly once a week

987
00:33:01,919 --> 00:33:05,600
at least normally multiple times a week

988
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,919
just to see what everyone else is doing

989
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,200
so i kind of keep my eye on the ball for

990
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:11,120
my own stuff

991
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,679
but then the problem is you keep seeing

992
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,519
all this cool stuff and so i have

993
00:33:13,679 --> 00:33:16,960
recently backed quite a lot of

994
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:18,880
kickstarters

995
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,440
which is great because it means i get

996
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,360
lots of cool stuff through the post but

997
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:26,320
yeah it doesn't do my bank balance money

998
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,559
so i think if my my advice is

999
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,640
stay off it while you can

1000
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,000
don't get hooked

1001
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,679
that that should be the quote on your

1002
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,159
next kickstarter

1003
00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:37,159
yeah for tagline

1004
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,960
it's a sentiment that i've heard you

1005
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:42,159
know on twitter and there are people

1006
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,840
being like

1007
00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:45,840
i'm like i'm backing so many

1008
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,519
kickstarters right now i've lost count

1009
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,279
and i think i'm

1010
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:50,159
inadvertently quite lucky in that i

1011
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:52,399
haven't

1012
00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:54,640
fallen down that trap i've just done a

1013
00:33:52,399 --> 00:33:56,159
couple of handful here and there and

1014
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,519
have just kind of somehow it's it's

1015
00:33:56,159 --> 00:34:00,880
slipped my

1016
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:03,519
millennial internet searching web of

1017
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,600
things i do on the daily so no i'm quite

1018
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:07,900
i guess lucky

1019
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:11,209
give man

1020
00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:11,209
[Music]

1021
00:34:13,770 --> 00:34:19,599
[Music]

1022
00:34:17,839 --> 00:34:21,200
i the one thing i will mention is is in

1023
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:23,919
terms of

1024
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,800
production so again my

1025
00:34:23,919 --> 00:34:26,960
you know

1026
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,599
evidence is quite limited and anecdotal

1027
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,119
um but i know with both the as i said

1028
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:32,800
gleam here and frosthaven which are

1029
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:35,520
again very

1030
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,200
heavyweight board games yeah sure sure

1031
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,440
there's a lot it's like hundreds and

1032
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,320
hundreds of pieces and you know printing

1033
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,720
and

1034
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,240
so they're a big heavyweight i get it

1035
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:46,879
but in both of them

1036
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:48,639
the production schedule is slipped which

1037
00:34:46,879 --> 00:34:50,240
i don't really i don't i don't care

1038
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:52,000
about because i know the lead time is

1039
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:53,440
like a year anyway so i don't you know

1040
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,639
what's another six months on a year yeah

1041
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,679
that's right sure

1042
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:57,280
you know you'll get it eventually

1043
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:58,400
exactly it doesn't really mean anything

1044
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,520
to me

1045
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,960
but i don't know if you've had any

1046
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:06,079
experience with that kind of schedule

1047
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:07,680
slippage at all or so far so good okay

1048
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:10,160
i think

1049
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,520
what so particularly for kickstarters

1050
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,760
the way

1051
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,560
that we've done kickstarters is a very

1052
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,000
specific so it's just for instance it's

1053
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,400
just dice

1054
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,880
the last one was a new range of sci-fi

1055
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,920
themed dice and it was just that range

1056
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,760
of dice

1057
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,480
and there were a couple of things like

1058
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,160
there was a coin and some poker chips

1059
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,920
and add-ons i think i have the coin

1060
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,680
actually i've got a coin somewhere yeah

1061
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,599
yeah sorry to interrupt i just i do like

1062
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,560
another coins

1063
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:39,920
they're pretty nice if i say so myself

1064
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,200
um

1065
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,560
and so

1066
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,119
in a way it's the opposite of your

1067
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,480
gloomhaven it's it's not thousands of

1068
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:48,560
different pieces

1069
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,560
um of different kinds you know you don't

1070
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,040
need some minis and a rulebook and a

1071
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,720
board and some cards and some

1072
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,599
you know etc etc

1073
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:58,240
so

1074
00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:59,920
that makes it way way easier because

1075
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,160
then i know we've just got to produce

1076
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,960
dice that's all and of course sometimes

1077
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,160
things go wrong or yeah there's a hold

1078
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,760
up or a

1079
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,480
fire or flood or yeah it could be

1080
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,400
anything yeah but but rarely and now i'm

1081
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,079
pleased to say and i hope this trend

1082
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,839
continues

1083
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:18,320
our kickstarters so far have all been

1084
00:36:15,839 --> 00:36:20,320
delivered on time amazing one of them

1085
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,320
only just but we did get the last

1086
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,000
package out when you know before the

1087
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,440
date that we said so

1088
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,920
um

1089
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,079
so far so good although the next one

1090
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,720
nobody knows about this yet oh but the

1091
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:35,119
next one is going to be early next year

1092
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:37,040
okay and it's not dice

1093
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:38,800
it's going to be for

1094
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,400
some i'm just i don't want to give it

1095
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,440
away too much but it's going to be card

1096
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,200
based it's going to be something to do

1097
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:47,200
with cards oh uh i'm i'm i'm honored and

1098
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:50,240
this is well exciting

1099
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:53,040
this is the world first

1100
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:55,119
no but nobody knows this yet um and it's

1101
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,520
also it's going to be a d

1102
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:59,920
product or a 5e product i should say

1103
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,440
because i'm not supposed to say dnd ah

1104
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:04,079
yeah very cool

1105
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,760
well i'm really excited with it i i've

1106
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:07,680
been working on it for

1107
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,000
quite quite a while so probably most of

1108
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,200
this year to be honest amazing and it's

1109
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,359
yeah it's going to be ready basically as

1110
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,280
soon as we've fulfilled the dice from

1111
00:37:13,359 --> 00:37:17,119
the kickstarter they're just finished

1112
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,680
because uh kickstarter allows you to

1113
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:21,359
have i think up to three on the go but i

1114
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,200
don't like that i want to get one done i

1115
00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:24,800
want to completely fulfill it make sure

1116
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,400
everyone's got their stuff

1117
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,240
and then start the next one i think i

1118
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,599
think that's kind of fairer in a way i

1119
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,599
don't think it's fair to ask someone for

1120
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:33,040
money for something new when they've

1121
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:35,680
given you money for something else and

1122
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,880
you haven't given them yeah

1123
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,599
yeah

1124
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,119
yeah so yeah so early next year watch

1125
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:43,520
this space oh

1126
00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:44,800
absolutely yeah that sounds awesome okay

1127
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,040
very cool

1128
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,079
ah i'm a bit rocked by that now this is

1129
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,920
this is

1130
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:51,680
this is a thinking critically exclusive

1131
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,599
so um it is it's caught me off guard

1132
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,520
here usually i'm usually i'm getting the

1133
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:56,800
guests off guard with any questions so

1134
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,160
now i'm like

1135
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,190
it's not fair this isn't this isn't now

1136
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,160
this is supposed to happen

1137
00:37:59,190 --> 00:38:04,560
[Laughter]

1138
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,880
okay cool so

1139
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,240
let's change gears a little bit then so

1140
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,560
obviously we've talked a lot about kind

1141
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:11,920
of real world business

1142
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,359
obviously pad and role playing and then

1143
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,480
kickstart kickstarter and all that kind

1144
00:38:13,359 --> 00:38:18,480
of stuff

1145
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:21,440
in terms of businesses in game then so

1146
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,560
uh we'll keep it kind of system agnostic

1147
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,520
at the moment

1148
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,839
i don't know if you've got any

1149
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,359
experience with that you know in any

1150
00:38:25,839 --> 00:38:29,359
versions or systems or editions that

1151
00:38:27,359 --> 00:38:33,280
you've played any

1152
00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:34,960
have involved that that element of role

1153
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,079
playing like you know the player

1154
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,760
characters running a shop or you know

1155
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:41,280
downtime activities or any of that kind

1156
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,440
of stuff i don't know if you've had any

1157
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,520
of that experience and if so

1158
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,040
how how did you find it

1159
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,720
yeah so i

1160
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,800
obviously knowing that we were speaking

1161
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:52,720
this evening i was thinking about this

1162
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,079
today particularly

1163
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,440
and i was kind of trying to think and i

1164
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:56,560
wanted to ask you actually as well if

1165
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,079
you know of any but i was trying to

1166
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,040
think first of all are there any

1167
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:04,320
role-playing games that where that's the

1168
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:06,800
focus actually so rather than going into

1169
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,440
dungeons or whatever it is for for that

1170
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,599
game are there any games where

1171
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,359
the whole focus is on business or trade

1172
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:14,960
and i couldn't come up with any i don't

1173
00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:18,480
know do you know of any not off the top

1174
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:20,000
of my head no i know that there in in

1175
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,119
fifth edition there are some you know

1176
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,440
guidelines and rules that have been

1177
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:25,200
expanded upon the later books around as

1178
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,200
i said downtime activities and with some

1179
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,760
broad guidance on like

1180
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,760
if the pcs do x for y number of days

1181
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,160
they'll earn zed gold yeah and that's

1182
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,000
that's pretty much as deep as it gets

1183
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,520
yeah i'm the same um

1184
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:42,079
so as you say that you know there's some

1185
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:44,320
stuff in m5e uh my main game is simbroom

1186
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,520
by free league the swedish company who

1187
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,359
are taking the world by storm at the

1188
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,040
moment and rightly so because they're

1189
00:39:47,359 --> 00:39:51,119
great um

1190
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,960
so i run simbroom and there's a there's

1191
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:54,160
a little bit in there

1192
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,920
about

1193
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,079
it's not really it's kind of related

1194
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:01,280
it's about sort of in the uh games game

1195
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:04,240
masters guide is a bit about

1196
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,599
running a a domain and a domain could be

1197
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:08,640
anything from a

1198
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:09,440
a small farm to a town so if you happen

1199
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,880
to

1200
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,720
own one or

1201
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,960
take one over or whatever

1202
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,880
but that's you know that's very it's

1203
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,960
like three or four pages and it's not

1204
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,480
really given that much detail

1205
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,240
and then there's i think there's some

1206
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,359
games where

1207
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:26,800
you're a trader so like traveler for

1208
00:40:25,359 --> 00:40:28,720
instance the idea is you're a trader

1209
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,000
kind of buying and selling stuff across

1210
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:32,079
the galaxy

1211
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,680
and the other one i could think of was

1212
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:36,079
was what i'm a fancy role playing with

1213
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,520
rip okay but

1214
00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:39,040
in a

1215
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,160
in a way that's kind of implied in the

1216
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,560
books but i'm not sure anyone actually

1217
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,000
plays because in wifrip you

1218
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,079
you have a

1219
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,400
a career which is you know your your

1220
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:50,640
class uh but it is actually a career so

1221
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,800
the the famous one is rat catcher you

1222
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,760
can be a rat catcher or you could be a

1223
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:58,720
a pilot or a whatever there's absolutely

1224
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,720
loads of them and i think the

1225
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:03,359
the idea the sort of implication is that

1226
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:06,640
you're not really an adventurer

1227
00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:08,640
you are a normal person with a job and

1228
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,240
when you're not adventuring you go back

1229
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,640
to your job

1230
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:14,000
and that's mainly what you do and so all

1231
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,400
your advances

1232
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,079
are based on your career

1233
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,599
which is a cool idea and it's a lot of

1234
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:20,960
fun it works really well i think on the

1235
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:22,720
whole

1236
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,800
but they didn't really make anything of

1237
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:27,599
that and i think in the latest edition

1238
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,839
of uh warhammer's fourth edition uh

1239
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:31,599
which came out i think last year

1240
00:41:29,839 --> 00:41:32,800
maybe year before something like that

1241
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:35,280
and

1242
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,680
just like you said uh they they kind of

1243
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,760
have it as down time really it's just

1244
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,599
some stuff happens

1245
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,040
in between sessions yeah and maybe you

1246
00:41:41,599 --> 00:41:44,960
make some money

1247
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,040
or you can put your money in the bank

1248
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,119
to make sure it

1249
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,440
nothing happens to it it's just

1250
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:52,640
which is all right that's fine

1251
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,599
but

1252
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,839
it's not really making the most of it

1253
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,440
and i sort of wondered if

1254
00:41:57,839 --> 00:42:01,280
wouldn't it be quite good i think to

1255
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,280
have a game where

1256
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,319
actually that is what it was about and

1257
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,079
so you

1258
00:42:04,319 --> 00:42:06,960
i don't know what you do you running in

1259
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:08,960
or

1260
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,400
whatever you have some kind of

1261
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,640
enterprise

1262
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,800
and actually it's about

1263
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,920
managing all the trials and tribulations

1264
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,920
and you could have you know you could

1265
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,800
have random tables

1266
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,560
for

1267
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,160
what kind of people

1268
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,480
come in and maybe there's a recession or

1269
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:27,440
maybe there's a fire or maybe

1270
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,440
your stock goes mouldy or yeah rival

1271
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,920
rival shops opening

1272
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,520
yeah yeah maybe yeah you could uh maybe

1273
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,119
send in you could do a bit of industrial

1274
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,040
espionage you could send someone in to

1275
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:40,400
spy on the competition it could be quite

1276
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,920
fun i think but so far as i know

1277
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,520
there's nothing like that i'm sure

1278
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,440
there's at least one person listening to

1279
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,680
this going yes there is yes there is yes

1280
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,200
yeah oh for sure

1281
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,800
well welcome to my life is people

1282
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,760
telling me

1283
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,760
knowing that i'm wrong

1284
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,839
no that actually does sound very you

1285
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:01,520
know you could it could easily sound

1286
00:42:59,839 --> 00:43:04,480
maybe dull like spreadsheets and stuff

1287
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:06,079
but i think it's very easily be super

1288
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,079
fun like if you keep it on that on that

1289
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:09,520
but like like for example a problem i

1290
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:10,800
thought of just then was like the where

1291
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,119
your warehouse where your stock is gets

1292
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,560
raided by like bandits or whatever and

1293
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:15,440
then you can easily tie that into like a

1294
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,480
more

1295
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,319
typical

1296
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,839
well go and investigate the the

1297
00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:20,880
warehouse to check out these people that

1298
00:43:19,839 --> 00:43:22,400
have stolen your goods and you could

1299
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,160
kind of swing that ends up with a big

1300
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,680
fight yeah yeah back into a more

1301
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,960
traditional sense if that's what people

1302
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,240
are after then you can go back and be

1303
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,079
like well now i've got my goods and i

1304
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:32,240
don't have to you know eat

1305
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:34,480
rice you know and bread for the next

1306
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:36,319
month because i got i got my goods off

1307
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,160
of those guys no for sure yeah i think

1308
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:39,760
it could be a lot of fun and i think but

1309
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,400
i know there's definitely games where

1310
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,920
you

1311
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,760
have a base

1312
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,280
and then

1313
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,560
you have to have enough money to run the

1314
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,160
base yeah

1315
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,040
guards and yeah all that and then you

1316
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,720
can expand your base with extra kind of

1317
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,480
modules and things and again some of the

1318
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:56,240
3d games do that quite well i know

1319
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,160
that's in forbidden lands for instance

1320
00:43:56,240 --> 00:44:00,000
there's a few games that do that and

1321
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,839
that that kind of touches on it i think

1322
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,400
that you've got to make the money

1323
00:44:01,839 --> 00:44:07,040
to spend to keep your base going

1324
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,960
and maybe you've got a cash generating

1325
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:12,160
something in your base

1326
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,200
potentially but it's always

1327
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,880
yeah i think it's always kind of

1328
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,040
relegated to

1329
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,040
so as you say downtime or just like a

1330
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,119
minor little bit of the game and then

1331
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,800
you go off and do your big quest and i

1332
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:24,880
think that's a kind of a shame in a way

1333
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,319
yeah for sure um and it's this this talk

1334
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,400
has reminded me of there's a there's a

1335
00:44:26,319 --> 00:44:30,160
video game it's like a jrpg

1336
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,200
uh quite old now at this point it's

1337
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,119
called

1338
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,560
is it russetti air it's got a

1339
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:36,880
interesting name and it's called a

1340
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:40,079
recitier an item shop's tail

1341
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:42,960
and it is it is very uh like anime very

1342
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:46,000
jrpg and the the protagonist who's like

1343
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,960
a teenage girl she inherits an item shop

1344
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,599
like

1345
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,760
explicitly for adventurers like other

1346
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:53,680
typical adventurers that come in

1347
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,680
and she inherits it from you know a late

1348
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,599
uncle or something like that and the

1349
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,520
whole premise of the game is she goes

1350
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:01,280
dungeon delving to get

1351
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,800
resources that other adventurers need

1352
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,480
and then you take it back to the shop

1353
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,119
and then you sell them so in the day

1354
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:09,280
it's like where do i put you know i put

1355
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:11,599
the really high value enticing goods in

1356
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,760
the window to bring adventures in and

1357
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:15,599
then on the shelves inside i put the

1358
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,359
other goods and then

1359
00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:19,119
every time someone comes in you get to

1360
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:20,720
barter with them and haggle the price of

1361
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:23,280
this healing potion

1362
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:24,480
you know 50 foot of hemp and rope or you

1363
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,240
know or you find a really great like

1364
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,560
magical sword slam that in the window

1365
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:30,800
for like a huge price tag just to entice

1366
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,720
the punters and then in the evening you

1367
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,200
go dungeon delvin again

1368
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:37,599
to you know restock the shelves and

1369
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,000
and so on and so on so that that is

1370
00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:41,760
begging to be made easily it could

1371
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,359
easily be a tabletop game couldn't it

1372
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,280
yeah yeah for sure exactly you can do

1373
00:45:43,359 --> 00:45:47,359
the exact same thing in fact i expect

1374
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,000
someone will at some point trademark

1375
00:45:47,359 --> 00:45:52,640
copyright yeah yeah yeah

1376
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,440
get it get it out there quick

1377
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,000
yeah

1378
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,630
this is a thinking critically paladin

1379
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,480
production

1380
00:45:56,630 --> 00:46:00,560
[Laughter]

1381
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,040
perfect you know like absolutely that

1382
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:05,440
could that just totally fits you

1383
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,200
again what we were just describing like

1384
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,640
and in the day you could have those

1385
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,160
disturbances and whatnot and you could

1386
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,520
easily spin all the classic tropes you

1387
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,040
know you could time backstories you

1388
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,240
could tie in you know everything you

1389
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,520
want dragons coming in you could do

1390
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:16,319
anything you wanted then it would still

1391
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,560
be

1392
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:19,760
weirdly grounded in a way which would

1393
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,200
make it

1394
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,040
potentially more

1395
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,280
engaging because it is grounded it is

1396
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,079
like i got i've got to feed i got to eat

1397
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,000
like

1398
00:46:26,079 --> 00:46:28,880
yeah and there's there's a very definite

1399
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,319
reason

1400
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,920
sometimes

1401
00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:32,880
i i don't have a problem with this but i

1402
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,640
think

1403
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,400
in in a lot of kind of traditional

1404
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,359
role-playing games you kind of go on the

1405
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,960
quest just because it's the quest

1406
00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:42,880
i'm gonna go and clear this dungeon out

1407
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,119
of monsters and take the loot don't

1408
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,800
really know why but it's fun so that's

1409
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:48,960
what i'm going to do but i quite like

1410
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,720
that idea of yeah there's a real

1411
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,720
definite reason

1412
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:53,520
behind it and having to fill up your

1413
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,680
shop

1414
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,040
yeah and i wanted to also say that there

1415
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,119
is something to be said about and in

1416
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,760
fact looking at my notes now about i've

1417
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:03,440
put here classes as professions and i

1418
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,760
think that's something that

1419
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,520
5e doesn't do

1420
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,960
i mean i guess you could tenuously link

1421
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,280
most of them to

1422
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,440
to a quote-unquote career or a

1423
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,960
profession but they are

1424
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,160
first and foremost which is from its

1425
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,240
roots

1426
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,200
what i would define as a class rather

1427
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:20,640
than a

1428
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,400
a profession like nobody grows up and

1429
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,680
says i want to be

1430
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,680
a fighter or like nobody

1431
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,440
is a child and says i want to be a rogue

1432
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,599
i want to be a criminal

1433
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,650
yeah yeah right yeah yeah

1434
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:35,839
i want to be somebody people can't trust

1435
00:47:33,650 --> 00:47:36,960
[Laughter]

1436
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:38,480
whereas as you said like with the

1437
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,960
warhammer that certainly sounds like the

1438
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,720
type even the name alone which speaks

1439
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,800
volumes um

1440
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:47,680
they are yeah professional i mean even

1441
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,960
fighter i mean fighters very loose terms

1442
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,119
why are you a fighter is it because

1443
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,960
you're a bodyguard or a professional

1444
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:54,880
boxer you know you could put that kind

1445
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,960
of thing around it i'm just picking up

1446
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,319
my copy of warhammer here which is right

1447
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,920
next to me here we go so we've got

1448
00:47:58,319 --> 00:48:02,880
soldier squire student smuggler servant

1449
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:07,359
seer

1450
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:10,720
uh ratcatcher road warden scribe

1451
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:12,079
pit fighter pilot physician student

1452
00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:13,280
there's loads of them

1453
00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:15,599
and some of them aren't actually

1454
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,599
professions there's noble oh okay not

1455
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:19,680
really a career this is just like a well

1456
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:21,200
a maine but if you've got a silver spoon

1457
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,520
then you don't need to work yeah i

1458
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,960
suppose that's it yeah exactly minstrel

1459
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:28,319
is there so i guess that's a bit like it

1460
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:31,280
obviously a bard yep herdsman

1461
00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:34,400
hypnotist even amazing

1462
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:36,480
um fisherman yeah just

1463
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,319
but i like that i like the idea well i'm

1464
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,960
just a fisherman yeah and i happen to

1465
00:48:38,319 --> 00:48:42,880
have got involved in some crazy stuff

1466
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,720
and now i'm going off on an adventure

1467
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,000
but i think that you know that

1468
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:48,559
says a lot about the difference between

1469
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:50,559
warhammer and dnd because

1470
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:52,960
warhammer is much

1471
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:54,800
you know artists is intended as a much

1472
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,079
sort of grittier

1473
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:59,520
i'm not going to say realistic but yeah

1474
00:48:56,079 --> 00:49:02,400
kind of a grittier more more grim dark

1475
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:04,640
kind of game and dnd is inherently a bit

1476
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:06,319
more kind of heroic yeah so it kind of

1477
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,720
fits for warhammer that you're just

1478
00:49:06,319 --> 00:49:09,599
average joe the fisherman

1479
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:10,960
who

1480
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:12,640
gets involved in something and you're

1481
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,920
not some mighty

1482
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,240
paladin or

1483
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,000
yeah personally i quite like that no no

1484
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:20,559
i like it too because i've i've

1485
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,640
struggled with that dissonance before

1486
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:24,240
in i i like to make grounded and

1487
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,280
realistic characters and i've struggled

1488
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:27,040
with

1489
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,680
i am just a dude

1490
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,680
but you you can never be just just

1491
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,839
somebody in in

1492
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:36,240
you you know even at level one you have

1493
00:49:33,839 --> 00:49:37,920
fantastical abilities that set you apart

1494
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,520
so it makes it very hard there is a

1495
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:42,800
dissonance there to be like i i want to

1496
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:44,640
be a guy but i can't just be regular joe

1497
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:49,359
because i can

1498
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:50,960
get hit loads or summon fire or and yeah

1499
00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:52,400
i can't just be a fisherman because that

1500
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,440
doesn't really make sense when i whip

1501
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,520
out a

1502
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,119
huge great sword that can decapitate

1503
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,040
people like where have i picked that up

1504
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:01,760
when i've been sitting for seven hours

1505
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,839
next to a lake like

1506
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,280
yeah it's like where did you manage to

1507
00:50:03,839 --> 00:50:07,599
squeeze that in next time one of the

1508
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,920
most mundane like not to insult

1509
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:10,640
fishermen at all but like

1510
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,440
yeah

1511
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,280
it can be quite sedentary yeah

1512
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,520
yeah yeah absolutely yeah

1513
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,640
how can i fit in these fantastical feats

1514
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,480
of

1515
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,760
i mean i mean you could be and now i'm

1516
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,800
thinking about it a fisherman wizard

1517
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,960
would make sense because you've got an

1518
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,400
awful lot of time reading you could

1519
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:30,400
would work that would read yeah

1520
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,800
yeah got a lot of patience

1521
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,960
so no i i agree i do i do like that

1522
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,400
marriage a little bit more between

1523
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,319
classes and professions because it just

1524
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,319
makes that stepping stone for me a

1525
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:42,720
little bit easier from certainly the

1526
00:50:40,319 --> 00:50:45,200
lower levels to be like i was a random

1527
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:48,079
person but now because of the adventures

1528
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:50,400
i've been on i'm a fisherman plus

1529
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:53,920
savior of the universe

1530
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:56,720
yeah and i think um it also helps it

1531
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,839
gives you an instant in in terms of

1532
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:59,760
role-playing

1533
00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:02,079
because if you're

1534
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,480
so i've actually played a one-shot of

1535
00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:06,800
first edition warhammer a few months

1536
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,440
back and i chose to play the rat catcher

1537
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,720
because rat catchers are iconic in the

1538
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,000
warhammer world

1539
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:13,680
and

1540
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,200
so straight away i feel like well i kind

1541
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,800
of know something about my character

1542
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,640
from a role-playing perspective because

1543
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,720
i'm a rat catcher and so you can

1544
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:23,119
instantly imagine i'm probably pretty

1545
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:26,079
poor and i'm used to going down sewers

1546
00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:28,160
and nasty places looking for rats and

1547
00:51:26,079 --> 00:51:29,839
the fact that the rat catcher comes with

1548
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,640
what's described as a small but vicious

1549
00:51:29,839 --> 00:51:32,480
dog

1550
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,839
so awesome so i've also got dog i'm

1551
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,280
going to give him a name and that's

1552
00:51:33,839 --> 00:51:36,480
going to be fun for role playing as well

1553
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,839
i'm going to have him running off

1554
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,960
barking at things when we're trying to

1555
00:51:37,839 --> 00:51:41,920
hide

1556
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:43,359
whatever that'll be fun yeah

1557
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,800
and so that's really nice as well i

1558
00:51:43,359 --> 00:51:46,720
think that straight away you go okay

1559
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,559
cool i've got an idea

1560
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,839
at least a springboard for what my

1561
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:52,079
character is going to be like because

1562
00:51:49,839 --> 00:51:54,160
he's he's got this profession he's got

1563
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:55,520
this career yeah and that's that tells

1564
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,240
you something straight away and i like

1565
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,000
that

1566
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:59,920
i think most of those you you rattled

1567
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,319
off there have

1568
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:03,760
some bearing in

1569
00:52:02,319 --> 00:52:04,960
you know there's an

1570
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,720
analogous

1571
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,720
career or profession in the real world

1572
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:10,640
that people can hook on to whereas

1573
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:12,400
paladins don't exist

1574
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,319
so for me to put myself in the mind of a

1575
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,680
paladin

1576
00:52:14,319 --> 00:52:17,030
what would it be like to smite my

1577
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,800
enemies

1578
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:20,400
[Laughter]

1579
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,319
what does what does a paladin do on a

1580
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,839
day-to-day basis when he's not smiting

1581
00:52:22,319 --> 00:52:25,520
yeah exactly like a druid what would it

1582
00:52:23,839 --> 00:52:26,540
be like to be an animorph and turn into

1583
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,319
a cat i don't know

1584
00:52:26,540 --> 00:52:30,400
[Laughter]

1585
00:52:28,319 --> 00:52:32,460
yeah i probably wouldn't go dungeon

1586
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,319
delvin i'd go and get up to mischief and

1587
00:52:32,460 --> 00:52:35,680
[Laughter]

1588
00:52:34,319 --> 00:52:38,000
yeah right

1589
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,599
do all sorts of other [ __ ] really

1590
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,839
really annoy the dm

1591
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:43,200
actually actually no i i don't fancy

1592
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:46,160
going down that dungeon that you've

1593
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,920
prepared i'm just gonna go and uh play

1594
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,680
tricks on the neighbors yeah

1595
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,119
exactly knock stuff off their shelves

1596
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,200
because

1597
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:54,559
why not

1598
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,839
yeah

1599
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:57,680
um

1600
00:52:55,839 --> 00:52:59,040
is is there anything you wanted to talk

1601
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:03,040
about that we we might not have covered

1602
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:04,720
yet i don't think so um

1603
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,960
i guess i'd just say

1604
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,559
just as a kind of uh

1605
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,400
a thing for for anyone who's listening

1606
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:12,720
to this who mainly

1607
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,640
plays d or you know just kind of sticks

1608
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:16,240
with the big games it would just be and

1609
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,640
this is not at all a self-serving thing

1610
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:20,720
because i'm not a games designer but uh

1611
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,520
just that there's so much cool stuff out

1612
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:23,760
there

1613
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,720
and you know running a running a small

1614
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,119
company

1615
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:28,400
that i hope anyway makes really good

1616
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:30,880
quality products that's certainly our

1617
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:33,040
name there's a lot of cool producers and

1618
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,480
content creators out there and so i

1619
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,119
think it's well worth

1620
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,480
supporting the smaller people and just

1621
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:39,440
kind of

1622
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,440
you know

1623
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,920
give giving giving someone who's just

1624
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,720
starting out a few quid as a way of kind

1625
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,240
of

1626
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:48,319
giving them a boost and i think that's

1627
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:51,280
good for the hobby as a whole just have

1628
00:53:48,319 --> 00:53:53,359
more creative people doing awesome stuff

1629
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,359
so just a little kind of request maybe

1630
00:53:53,359 --> 00:53:57,680
to to think about that

1631
00:53:55,359 --> 00:53:59,599
it encourages that train of thought for

1632
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,839
those people you know it encourages that

1633
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:03,680
i can at least try and put myself out

1634
00:54:01,839 --> 00:54:05,440
there and people do somewhere are

1635
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,720
interested and it that just is a

1636
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,319
self-fulfilling machine because then

1637
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:11,359
other people want to try it and so on

1638
00:54:08,319 --> 00:54:13,280
and so on exactly yeah you have the next

1639
00:54:11,359 --> 00:54:15,440
big thing that has just hasn't happened

1640
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,800
yet yeah just is waiting in the wings

1641
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,160
yeah like a really cool discussion

1642
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,400
podcast for example or whatever i don't

1643
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,640
know uh yeah

1644
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,160
i hear there's a really good one uh

1645
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,480
going around it's called something like

1646
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,119
critic critical something yeah yeah yeah

1647
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,119
i'm sure yeah

1648
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:35,359
uh well um thank you for for today's

1649
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,359
discussion it has been really really

1650
00:54:35,359 --> 00:54:39,680
really fun i've had a lot of uh yeah a

1651
00:54:37,359 --> 00:54:41,200
lot of fun talking about business uh

1652
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,119
which is who thought it i know some

1653
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,119
people might find that surprising uh

1654
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:47,760
yeah maybe this might be your your

1655
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:50,480
lowest uh lowest numbers

1656
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:52,720
episode because it's called business no

1657
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,880
no hopefully not

1658
00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:57,119
don't forget that the you know

1659
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,920
win ads and people that listen to

1660
00:54:57,119 --> 00:54:59,280
into

1661
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,680
internet stuff but to anyone who's

1662
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,440
listened this far thank you i appreciate

1663
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,280
you

1664
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,760
um is there anything you would like to

1665
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:10,559
promote uh well of course uh i would

1666
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:13,839
like to encourage anyone to check out

1667
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:15,520
paladin role playing uh for dice or any

1668
00:55:13,839 --> 00:55:17,200
other accessories our range of other

1669
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,839
bits and pieces is

1670
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:22,079
also growing fast and you can find us at

1671
00:55:19,839 --> 00:55:24,480
paladin roleplaying.com

1672
00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:25,599
we're uk based but we ship worldwide so

1673
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,720
it doesn't matter where in the world you

1674
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:28,480
are

1675
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:30,240
aside from that

1676
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,640
i mean that's that's definitely the main

1677
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:34,319
way to kind of find out what we're doing

1678
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,319
and what i'm doing and and to get in

1679
00:55:34,319 --> 00:55:39,040
touch as i said please do feel free to

1680
00:55:36,319 --> 00:55:40,000
get in touch about anything basically

1681
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,000
um

1682
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,079
it's always nice to hear from people

1683
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,400
uh if there are any simbrain players

1684
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:48,400
i've got a couple of little um pieces on

1685
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,920
the free league workshop which is three

1686
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:55,119
leagues kind of fan publishing facility

1687
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,880
so you can look me up on there um

1688
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:59,040
there's a little house rules thing and

1689
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,799
uh an adventure called the summoning

1690
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,200
which is a one-shot adventure

1691
00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:04,720
but simbroom's not massive so

1692
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,400
i'd be surprised if there's too many

1693
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:07,920
simbrim players you say that gm's

1694
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,160
listening but you are not actually the

1695
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,640
first guest to mention it and i don't

1696
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:14,400
know an episode i think in in this

1697
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:17,359
season actually someone else has

1698
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,720
mentioned it so uh no uh there's two of

1699
00:56:17,359 --> 00:56:20,160
you here

1700
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,760
cool well there's at least two of us

1701
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,000
then that's good

1702
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,839
it's it's it's my all-time favorite

1703
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,880
role-playing game actually i love it wow

1704
00:56:25,839 --> 00:56:31,440
it's really good but yeah and of course

1705
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:33,599
the kickstarter coming next year keep

1706
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,559
your eyes on kickstarter if you're a d d

1707
00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:36,960
player

1708
00:56:34,559 --> 00:56:39,119
and and who isn't then

1709
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,960
yeah check out early next year just

1710
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:43,280
check out uh the kickstarter we'll be

1711
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:45,440
obviously publicizing it on our socials

1712
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,599
we also have facebook and instagram if

1713
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,760
people are on that not to be honest i'm

1714
00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:51,599
not super active but you can find us on

1715
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,280
there yeah that that all that stuff will

1716
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:55,119
be in the episode description as normal

1717
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,200
my question is i'm i'm on the mailing

1718
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:58,640
list from and i have been for years is

1719
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,920
there is there a mailing list for you

1720
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,680
guys as well so people if they want to

1721
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,640
get that kickstarter they can get that

1722
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,160
in their room yeah that's probably the

1723
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,480
best way to do it actually there is a

1724
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:09,200
mailing list of course yes um well you

1725
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,880
know that because you're on it um and in

1726
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,799
fact you can

1727
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:16,319
go to our site and then click on the

1728
00:57:12,799 --> 00:57:18,079
kickstarter tab and at the moment all it

1729
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:19,760
says is there'll be a kickstarter soon

1730
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:21,359
why don't you stick your name down and

1731
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,720
we'll tell you when it happens awesome

1732
00:57:21,359 --> 00:57:25,200
cool that's the easiest way to get on

1733
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,760
the list and yeah we don't

1734
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,119
i hope you agree that like everyone else

1735
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,359
i hate spam

1736
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:32,240
and so i'm really conscious that i don't

1737
00:57:31,359 --> 00:57:34,319
want

1738
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,079
us to be spamming people so we don't

1739
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:38,720
send a ton of emails basically we've got

1740
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:39,440
something exciting happening we let you

1741
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,040
know

1742
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,040
and then if you're not interested we

1743
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:45,599
just leave your load and don't badger

1744
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:48,319
you too much that's the plan yeah no not

1745
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:50,079
at all i wouldn't have even uh yeah

1746
00:57:48,319 --> 00:57:52,000
noticed it to be honest in terms of you

1747
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:54,480
know as a as a nuisance or anything so

1748
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,640
no not all it's it's it's great and uh

1749
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:59,359
you know as i said um i had i used it on

1750
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:02,079
sunday i had my my bag holding

1751
00:57:59,359 --> 00:58:04,400
to take my laptop so i did my dng game

1752
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:07,280
uh i got my pen up here um

1753
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:09,440
my die said lost somewhere is it in the

1754
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,200
big bag of other dice picked up over the

1755
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,400
years so that they're not quite as to

1756
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,559
hand

1757
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,079
i will say oh and i do have the coin uh

1758
00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:18,319
i'll grab it from my chest in a second

1759
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:19,440
but yeah so now i do like that that's a

1760
00:58:18,319 --> 00:58:22,000
legit

1761
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:24,160
legit recommendation uh from me thank

1762
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,480
you yeah oh and actually i would like to

1763
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,559
um one other thing which i always forget

1764
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,119
to plug why because it's i think it's

1765
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:33,280
one of the coolest things we do uh

1766
00:58:31,119 --> 00:58:35,920
we're just into about the middle of the

1767
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:39,119
second season of our dice of the month

1768
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:41,440
club which is our kind of

1769
00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:42,880
luxury subscription service

1770
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:45,920
and

1771
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:47,200
it only opens every seven months so it's

1772
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,520
currently closed but it'll be opening

1773
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,760
again again sort of early next year i'm

1774
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:55,599
not sure exactly what the date is

1775
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:57,440
and you get every month you get one of

1776
00:58:55,599 --> 00:59:00,880
one of our luxury sets that'll be the

1777
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:03,520
metal or wood and we might be

1778
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,400
including stone as an option for the

1779
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,839
next one

1780
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,839
so you get one a month so over seven

1781
00:59:05,839 --> 00:59:08,640
months you build your whole polyhedral

1782
00:59:07,839 --> 00:59:10,400
set

1783
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:12,240
and in addition to your one

1784
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,559
posh dice per month you also get a

1785
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:17,119
random set of our

1786
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:19,680
standard dice so one of our acrylic sets

1787
00:59:17,119 --> 00:59:21,200
and a free gift and the free gifts are

1788
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,839
cool things

1789
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,760
that we manage to track down from

1790
00:59:23,839 --> 00:59:27,280
other people and and friends in the

1791
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,240
role-playing world sometimes it's our

1792
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,480
own stuff

1793
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:32,640
but it's normally stuff we've sourced

1794
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,000
elsewhere and they've it's been a lot of

1795
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,680
fun coming up with the free gifts and

1796
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,720
people have been really really liking

1797
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,520
them so

1798
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,720
that is if if you're into your dice

1799
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,720
and you like the idea of getting

1800
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,720
something once a month that's just cool

1801
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,760
and fun then that might be a good thing

1802
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:49,599
to look into awesome amazing well all

1803
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:52,160
that's left to say is uh thank you ever

1804
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:55,440
so much again uh for today's discussion

1805
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,079
it was uh hugely fun thank you i enjoyed

1806
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,319
it

1807
00:59:56,079 --> 01:00:00,000
uh and as usual to everybody at home

1808
00:59:58,319 --> 01:00:01,520
thank you all for listening uh all the

1809
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,640
links including the mailing lists and

1810
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,400
dive subscriptions and all the other

1811
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,480
lovely stuff will be in the episode

1812
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:09,200
description i would encourage you to

1813
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:11,359
check it all out

1814
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,599
but before we finish neil was kind

1815
01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:16,400
enough to leave a parting gift you can

1816
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:18,640
get 15 off your entire cart at paladin

1817
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:20,720
roleplaying.com when you use the code

1818
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:24,200
think crit 15

1819
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:24,200
that's t-h-i-n-k-c-r-i-t-15

1820
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,119
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1821
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:33,760
outs once again thank you to matt street

1822
01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:34,640
at mpstreet88 on twitter for supporting

1823
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,920
the show

1824
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,920
if you need support running your

1825
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:41,119
personal or business schedule head to

1826
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,799
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1827
01:00:41,119 --> 01:00:44,880
make that difference between should do

1828
01:00:42,799 --> 01:00:46,720
and done boss it better with support

1829
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:49,040
from cat who will help you get back that

1830
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,480
essential time you've been searching for

1831
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,400
if you would like to support what we do

1832
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:55,119
and get four shout outs a month head

1833
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,640
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1834
01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:59,440
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1835
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:04,440
kofi.com thinking critically thank you

1836
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:04,440
all for listening and good night

1837
01:01:04,530 --> 01:01:11,650
[Applause]

1838
01:01:11,540 --> 01:01:16,619
[Music]

1839
01:01:11,650 --> 01:01:16,619
[Applause]

1840
01:01:18,780 --> 01:01:26,709
[Music]

Neil

I've been playing roleplaying games (along with occasional forays into wargames, board games and LARP) for quite a few years. I won't say how old I am, but let's just say I started with Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition (back in the day when it was still called AD&D and not just D&D!)

And over the years, I've searched and searched for really good quality dice and accessories... but I was often disappointed.

I found it hard to find dice that were fair and well balanced as well as beautiful to look at and easy to read. I got fed up squinting to see what number I'd rolled, and frustrated with poorly balanced dice that kept rolling the same number.

So eventually, in desperation, I decided that I had to take matters into my own hands, and a few years ago in 2017, Paladin Roleplaying was born.

Our aim is simple - to get gorgeous dice and roleplaying accessories out onto gaming tables around the world!

I actually haven't played D&D for years, and I mainly enjoy indie games. I GM much more than I play. I'm currently running a big campaign for Symbaroum, and also running Spire.