Archetypes

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to thinking critically

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a d and d discussion a podcast where we

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deep dive single word concepts or ideas

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within the dungeons and dragons 5e

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framework my name is danilo and i like

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all kinds of games and the crunchy

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mechanics that make him tick you can

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find me on twitter facebook and

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instagram and i'd really appreciate a

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like or a follow today i'm joined by

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adam gumber aka adamgumby on twitter

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thank you ever so much for joining us

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today adam can you tell us a little bit

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about yourself

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hey yeah appreciate you having me on i

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am adam gumby as everyone knows me

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online i do

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d podcast i'll misfit roles i also do

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the editing for that i've recently

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started a savage world game with some

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friends that's going to become a podcast

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pretty much my twitter is all it's

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either video games or

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tabletop rpgs and that is like what i do

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so a lot of podcasting a lot of d d a

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lot of video games that that's what i'm

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all about awesome perfectly qualified

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then for today's discussion which is on

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the topic of

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archetypes so adam what does what does

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that word mean to you what does

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archetypes mean to you within the dnd

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framework

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yeah i mean archetypes can be looked at

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a couple different ways but basically

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it is what is like a preconceived notion

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or like what is it it's a word like a

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character build or like an idea that's

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it's pretty much it is it nothing here's

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what when you say this word i think of

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this

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and what that means is an archetype so

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if i'm gonna you know just for example i

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want to play

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you know like the the emo

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you know in the corner by myself

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the thief clearly you're playing you're

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playing an emo rogue like that's an

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archetype yeah emo rogue is an archetype

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you know that's basically what it is but

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then

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archetypes were playing different kind

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of characters and playing

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against type

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i think where it gets really interesting

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personally

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yeah yeah i am a big fan of

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i've said it before of like subverting

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expectations and one way to do that is

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by playing against the archetype you

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said so

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i i'm smiling now because i'm looking at

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my notes for this episode and i've

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literally got edgy rogue in quotes

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[Laughter]

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it's always there

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yeah i mean it's

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i guess it's just that

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the aragorn trap right although he's

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more of a ranger i get it but that kind

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of like loner who sits in the corner of

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the of the bar kind of thing although i

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can't think of a better example of that

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uh i mean the thing with archetypes is

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that they normally work so that's why

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people do them but i mean like a good

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artist of like the emo i mean yeah like

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any any adventure or you know any

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fantasy thing where it's like it's the

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quiet dude in the corner it's like we

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don't talk to him and it's just like oh

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he he can get stuff done i guess like

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robin hood would sort of be that like

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before he does the action stuff

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literally i mean any fantasy setting or

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even you know futuristic setting where

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it's like oh you need to get a job done

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go talk to this guy and then it's a

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smoky room and a dude or a girl sitting

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in a corner and it's like there's a

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rogue

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yeah yeah so i've broadly kind of

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approached this from a number of

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different ways the first one as we've

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started talking about it is player

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character so our archetypical player

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characters now we broadly touched on

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this in the episode on roles so

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what kind of mechanical roles

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player characters can play tank healer

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and so on but i wanted to approach that

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from a from this angle the one we've

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been talking about so far of

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that edgy rogue or the

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the mother or father figure

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you know or those other kind of

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the the crazed barbarian i don't know if

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you've got any anecdotes or any any

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thoughts on how they

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maybe add value maybe

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maybe a detriment to the game

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so in in the podcast i do i have misfit

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roles

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the the basics of that is that think of

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like suicide squad but like if their

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movie was good is the way that you say

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it um i'm gonna have to think really

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hard

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i know notre da little even though they

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said i'm jared leto in the game but we

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do we do have archetypes but then we

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also come at it from that some of us are

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villainous or evil you know like suicide

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squad they're not necessarily just like

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the big bad

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but they're you know that sort of a

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character so like with the whole like

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the dad or the uh like the the fatherly

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figure in the group like we have that

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sort of we we make fun of him say he has

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big dad energy is our joke that we have

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in the game but it's he's our hobgoblin

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fighter

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and you know he has to hide his face

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because in this world monsters aren't

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you know everyone's like oh this guy's

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weird but he definitely is like tries to

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corral

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the group you know in a good way and try

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to support everybody even though like

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some of us are literally evil characters

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and some of us are just like imbeciles

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and don't understand the world and like

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again it's that archetype of

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the pseudo leader and i'm keeping things

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in check but it's like i mean he's a big

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giant hobgoblin who's just trying his

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best to deal with these this group of

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idiots so it's like there's the

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archetype but here's a twist and makes a

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little bit different

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yeah yeah that's that's nice that just

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reminds me of a

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one shot i played

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probably over a year ago and i was

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playing a cleric

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and it was

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i really lent in to like the the mumsy

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archetypes i was literally doing like a

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head count at one point like you're

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doing a field trip or something or like

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okay so everyone made it through the

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portal okay

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yes have you got your buddies yeah okay

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right now we're gonna go and fight the

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beholder

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that's great you guys got your lunch

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money

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yeah i think i think i literally cast

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heroes feast so

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fantastic

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as i said earlier on i'm a fan of kind

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of separating expectations so although i

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am all for

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having those

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tropes to use maybe an unfavorable term

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i do like having a little bit of it of a

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spin on them or the alternative is to

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lean so heavily into them you become

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almost like a self parody

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like a caricature of an archetype which

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can be fun too like if you go over the

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moon with it it can be real fun yeah

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yeah just like full on obviously it

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should

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still make sense within the universe i i

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i don't want to suggest anyone go and

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roll some you know kooky

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tight rope walking juggling bar in a

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grim dark

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noir setting because that's just going

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to uh

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probably not

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fit too well it's a little weird yeah

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so yeah there's there's the edgy rogue

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the emo rogue and my game does have

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uh

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not so much

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emo more uh

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sociopathic

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but he's really lent into it and has

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shown signs of character development and

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i think

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that

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archetypes can be a good crutch to begin

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you know certainly for newer players to

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say let me let me build and play with

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something that i'm familiar with or have

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at least seen you know 100 times in pop

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culture

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but then the beauty of the game is that

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you can start to make it your own as you

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said like put a twist on it take it in a

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certain direction so using like a robin

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hood example maybe you don't become

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he's the prince of thieves right robin

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hood yeah and like steals from the rich

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gives us the poor yeah yeah so maybe

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like you don't become the prince of

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thieves kind of good guy robin hood you

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become maybe like a

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more kind of dark timeline

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version yeah

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which obviously has its own coolness

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to it

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i think one thing

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we you and i discussed before

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recording was the concept of kind of

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anti-heroes uh so i don't know what your

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thoughts are on you know having player

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characters be anti-heroes do you think

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you need

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the whole party to be on the same page

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of of kind of that anti-hero

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vibe or is just one enough or what what

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are your thoughts

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i mean well the first thing is is for

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the dm or the person running the game to

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understand what's going on because

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the thing that i personally don't like

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is you know when you have a party and

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someone's like i want to be chaotic evil

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it's like i don't like that

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idea of just like i'm just going to kill

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this random person because i feel like

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it in the middle of the street that's

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just a me thing

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but um the anti-hero thing definitely

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works like in our game it works because

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we all understood when we were going

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into it what we were doing and everybody

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realizes like what we're going for so

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even when some of us do actual evil

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things it's understood like

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hey this is the

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no one goes overboard right yeah like uh

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as for me my character i'm the one who's

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done extremely evil thing but you know

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in his mind it was lawful so it's no big

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deal but it was like you know i had to

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for summon lesser demon you need a vial

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of human blood killed in the last 24

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hours i'm like you know what i got to

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take somebody out um so we were in a big

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town i'm like i told them like hey i'm

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looking for a person it can just be a

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drunk just like some random person

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yeah just some just some just some

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person doesn't matter and i was like i

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told one of my friends that the

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hobgoblin was like hey can you watch my

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back real quick so i didn't involve

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everybody no one was uncomfortable and i

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went out and i did it and there's a

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whole crazy story with that and that

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went insane

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00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:43,839
but it's like we understood what game we

279
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,000
were going for i didn't force that

280
00:09:43,839 --> 00:09:47,920
decision on everybody

281
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,320
so it's not a big deal and then you know

282
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:52,399
we did such a good plan the consequences

283
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,920
haven't come back yet so there's a way

284
00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:55,600
you can do it like i said if you

285
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,920
everyone understands it and you plan it

286
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,440
out everyone's like okay that's fine you

287
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,120
know my character's not there it won't

288
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,920
be a big deal you can work it out but

289
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,360
yeah

290
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,200
if you're just like um you know we're

291
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:08,079
walking down the market

292
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:10,079
we're all a good hero party the wizard

293
00:10:08,079 --> 00:10:11,360
decides to be evil for a second is a

294
00:10:10,079 --> 00:10:13,760
fireball in the middle of a crowded

295
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:16,320
street like that that's not necessary

296
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,519
and kind of weird but

297
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,720
it's communication if everyone

298
00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:20,320
understands what's going on i think you

299
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,120
can kind of pull off anything you want

300
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:25,600
to do like any hero is very easy to do

301
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,360
it's just like uh you know i don't care

302
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,200
but i guess i'll do a thing that's good

303
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,880
but i don't care like that's easier than

304
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,720
evil but like it's communication it's

305
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,000
all about communication yeah i think

306
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,880
you've talked about a number of really

307
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:39,600
good points there and the one thing that

308
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:42,480
i like to hammer home a lot is

309
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,360
i absolutely see that chaotic evil is a

310
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,640
thing and exists but it is not chaotic

311
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,360
stupid

312
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:51,200
so those examples you gave of

313
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,680
walking downtown and i set the market on

314
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,040
fire that's kind of like chaotic stupid

315
00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:57,360
because the consequences of those

316
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,800
actions are well you're gonna go you're

317
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,519
gonna get in trouble

318
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:04,160
which doesn't really help anyone

319
00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:05,760
and like you know fighting guards or the

320
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,640
police and stuff like that that's that's

321
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,000
just

322
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,240
chaos

323
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,320
for the sake of it and if you if you die

324
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,959
then you can't create chaos anymore so

325
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,959
it's kind of counter productive to set

326
00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:19,519
the marketplace on fire so i'm a big

327
00:11:16,959 --> 00:11:20,399
proponent of yeah do do chaotic evil but

328
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:22,880
just

329
00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:25,279
do it in almost like a

330
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,399
an insidious way

331
00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:28,480
which

332
00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:30,800
as you said is is difficult to do it

333
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,600
it's it's it's definitely harder to play

334
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,079
the

335
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,560
extremes of the alignments than it is

336
00:11:34,079 --> 00:11:38,240
the middle ground as you would expect

337
00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:39,519
to a certain extent

338
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,360
and the spell you mentioned funnily

339
00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:44,000
enough i used that in one of my

340
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:47,519
uh in you know main campaign that i play

341
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,680
in and now i feel probably worse than i

342
00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:51,519
did at the time we were lucky that uh

343
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:53,600
you know my character was fortunate that

344
00:11:51,519 --> 00:11:55,920
they knew somebody who can who can get

345
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,440
things you know they're a fixer yeah i

346
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,720
said yeah we've got a we've got

347
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,880
something coming up or i could use a

348
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:04,399
lesser demon funnily enough so

349
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,680
could you get me this component and sure

350
00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:08,480
enough a couple of hours later they go

351
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:10,160
hey gay don't worry about it and so

352
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,120
in that instance my character is very

353
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,519
much in

354
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,519
a plausible deniability

355
00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:18,000
ignorance is bliss

356
00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:21,600
situation and i probably haven't really

357
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:23,680
grappled with the ramifications quite of

358
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,040
what that meant in the universe he was

359
00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,399
probably in denial and probably thought

360
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,720
hey they probably you know they probably

361
00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:30,240
just went down to the morgue you know no

362
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,839
one had to die they just popped down to

363
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,320
the morgue and

364
00:12:31,839 --> 00:12:36,079
it was all kosher natural causes had

365
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,760
nothing to do with this exactly yeah

366
00:12:36,079 --> 00:12:40,000
when in reality it almost definitely

367
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:43,760
wasn't that so

368
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:45,279
uh and that spell is sick so yeah i'm i

369
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,200
can totally see why

370
00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:48,399
you guys did that

371
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,160
the other thing i wanted to mention is

372
00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:51,760
as you said it's it's a communication

373
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,600
thing and

374
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,600
the ironic thing is is that in the game

375
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,639
that i'm dming

376
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,040
i'm

377
00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:00,240
probably the one least aligned and and

378
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,160
i'm the dm

379
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,279
and since we've been talking about it

380
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:08,079
today i've had the realization that

381
00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:09,839
my players are playing an anti-hero

382
00:13:08,079 --> 00:13:11,839
campaign

383
00:13:09,839 --> 00:13:12,880
and up until that realization i've been

384
00:13:11,839 --> 00:13:15,200
very much

385
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,839
thinking that it's the typical hero

386
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:20,000
fantasy and then so i've been

387
00:13:17,839 --> 00:13:22,079
kind of jarring a little bit against

388
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,360
don't kill these kobolds you don't have

389
00:13:22,079 --> 00:13:25,440
to kill these cobols because they're

390
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,040
still living sentient creatures but

391
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,040
they're just like well

392
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,959
it doesn't matter to us yeah that's

393
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,760
that's why we specifically

394
00:13:30,959 --> 00:13:35,760
went for the you know the evil your bad

395
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,440
guys game because he was like you're

396
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,800
supposed to be heroes but you literally

397
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,320
will kill anybody whoever gets in your

398
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,160
way like in a typical campaign like

399
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,920
you'll kill anybody you'll steal if you

400
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,279
have a rogue he's like let's just lean

401
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,639
into it forget it don't even worry about

402
00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:48,160
trying to be pretend to be goody two

403
00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:49,920
shoes even though a couple of our

404
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,079
characters say that they're goody two

405
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,000
shoes he's like we'll lean into it a

406
00:13:52,079 --> 00:13:56,000
little bit not too much but you guys can

407
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,399
there's a reason that you guys do stupid

408
00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,160
d t stuff because some of you guys are

409
00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:02,720
evil that's fine yeah i think i think

410
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,000
that's probably the better way to do it

411
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,880
just because it's

412
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:10,480
it's easier to be a good character in a

413
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:13,120
bad leaning party than it is to be a

414
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,000
bad character in a good leaning party i

415
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,600
think

416
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:19,279
because if you've got say four or five

417
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:21,680
goodie two shoes you know pious zealots

418
00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:23,199
i won't even i'll pay over the odds for

419
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,199
i'll never barter because they need to

420
00:14:23,199 --> 00:14:26,959
make a living wage kind of thing the one

421
00:14:25,199 --> 00:14:28,480
rogue is just gonna feel

422
00:14:26,959 --> 00:14:29,760
like he's gonna get lynched and in fact

423
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,600
that happened in

424
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,839
the in person campaign

425
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,560
i i'm playing or was playing in before

426
00:14:33,839 --> 00:14:38,399
we took it on hiatus where

427
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,199
the rogue player and that was was very

428
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:40,720
much

429
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:42,160
a bad dude

430
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,959
and it got to the point where he you

431
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,800
know

432
00:14:42,959 --> 00:14:46,079
said damn every all the characters hate

433
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,680
me

434
00:14:46,079 --> 00:14:49,360
so yeah

435
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,360
so my guy isn't really having a lot of

436
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,279
fun because he's he's having to watch

437
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,360
his back all the time and

438
00:14:53,279 --> 00:14:57,600
can we take him in a direction where

439
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,480
he maybe leaves the party and it ended

440
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,760
up being

441
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,199
your classic

442
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,560
betrayal

443
00:15:01,199 --> 00:15:05,839
and he's now a minor bad guy the the dm

444
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,880
is controlling and that players come

445
00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:09,120
back as a

446
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,040
as a like a furbolg bard or something

447
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,800
that's just super friendly and

448
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,040
he's like canadian

449
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,839
yeah and um

450
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:20,079
whereas if you're in like you said like

451
00:15:17,839 --> 00:15:21,839
slightly leaning into the bad guys

452
00:15:20,079 --> 00:15:23,600
kind of thing i think it's ever so

453
00:15:21,839 --> 00:15:25,839
slightly easier to just play like the

454
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,079
oblivious

455
00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:30,000
yeah just like i'm not in like i'm gonna

456
00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:31,360
turn turn the other way i'm not involved

457
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,759
with this let me know if someone you

458
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,120
know is doing evil but if you know if

459
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,680
you didn't see it didn't hear it didn't

460
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:40,160
happen right yeah yeah or like i'm just

461
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,839
gonna go and pray today safe yeah that

462
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,759
just gives you guys

463
00:15:41,839 --> 00:15:45,360
yeah and that just gives them the right

464
00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:46,800
the opportunity to do they want kind of

465
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,480
thing so

466
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,800
so yeah i think that's that's i've had a

467
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,959
weird epiphany since i've only been on

468
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:56,079
15 minutes and i've already had an

469
00:15:52,959 --> 00:15:58,639
epiphany so i think i'm sorry

470
00:15:56,079 --> 00:15:59,759
that that's great that's great um if uh

471
00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:02,000
for those that you know listen to the

472
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:03,199
podcast i know that i'm on a holiday now

473
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,360
actually by the time this comes out i'll

474
00:16:03,199 --> 00:16:07,440
probably be back in the dm seat after

475
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,560
having a couple months off and i guess

476
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,240
the biggest takeaway for me from doing

477
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,120
this podcast and especially this episode

478
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,160
is

479
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,839
the people i've talked to and everything

480
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,199
i've learned i'm going to come back a

481
00:16:13,839 --> 00:16:17,199
much better

482
00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:18,880
dm so

483
00:16:17,199 --> 00:16:20,480
thanks

484
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,079
that's good man more experience more

485
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,440
viewpoints you make for a better game

486
00:16:22,079 --> 00:16:25,600
i've learned stuff to do and you know

487
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,959
whenever we get back to uh doing season

488
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,079
two i've learned some things that i can

489
00:16:26,959 --> 00:16:29,360
do you know listening to people's

490
00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:30,959
podcasts and people's experience i'm

491
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,839
like yeah i'll definitely change that up

492
00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:32,959
um

493
00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:35,920
yeah

494
00:16:32,959 --> 00:16:38,399
great i'm feeling super chuffed now

495
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,120
so we've talked a little bit about um

496
00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:44,560
player character archetypes yeah yeah

497
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:46,160
anti-heroes yeah your hero heroes uh

498
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,079
there's probably a tv tropes term for

499
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,320
hero heroes rather than the one i'm just

500
00:16:48,079 --> 00:16:51,920
making up on the spot but true heroes

501
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,360
yeah

502
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:57,120
um

503
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:59,519
but that's a good segue there into dm

504
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:02,160
archetypes so

505
00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:04,480
my comment on this was

506
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,559
there is a bit of a archetype around

507
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,480
kind of adversarial

508
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:10,160
dungeon masters your tomb of horrors

509
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,319
dungeon masters

510
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,439
uh so what kind of

511
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,880
what's what's

512
00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:15,919
do you dm at all i guess is a good

513
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,559
question

514
00:17:15,919 --> 00:17:20,160
yeah i have in the past i dm'd for about

515
00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:21,360
two years before i got in the campaign i

516
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,280
was like hey and it was one of my

517
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:24,959
players who actually dm's that campaign

518
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,240
now i'm like thank god you take over

519
00:17:24,959 --> 00:17:27,839
because i just want to play it at this

520
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,520
point but yeah i did it for for quite a

521
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:31,600
while for a couple different groups ah

522
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,440
cool so what what style what kind of

523
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,120
archetypical dm would you consider

524
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,960
yourself and perhaps the player that

525
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,000
took over what about them and and how do

526
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,039
they differ

527
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,960
it changes when you first dm ever it's

528
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:44,080
that like over prepared archetype where

529
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,160
it's like i've got to make sure

530
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:49,039
everything is right every person has a

531
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,120
name and every situation has a possible

532
00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:52,160
outcome and then when you learn i might

533
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,640
as well throw that out the window that

534
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,480
doesn't necessarily matter so much

535
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,720
broad strokes is better than trying to

536
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,120
do fine lines for me anyways

537
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:04,240
i got to the point where i was just

538
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:06,080
i got silly really um because i had a

539
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,600
bunch of groups that uh like they would

540
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,720
go for a little bit then you know half

541
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,679
the people would leave or whatever

542
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,080
something like all right we're going to

543
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:14,080
do a west marches style where it's just

544
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,679
you guys have a base and whenever you

545
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,520
can show up make whatever character you

546
00:18:15,679 --> 00:18:19,039
want make a new one bring your old one

547
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,960
and i have one shots and we're just

548
00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:23,039
gonna play a bunch of one shots

549
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,559
and then i i got it was all real silly

550
00:18:23,039 --> 00:18:26,480
and real fun like

551
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:29,120
one of them we literally met shaggy from

552
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,559
scooby doo he was a monk hanging out i

553
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,440
was just like

554
00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:33,200
you know

555
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,880
at this point where everyone's just

556
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,000
people are non-committal and then

557
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,880
certain people want to play a lot i'm

558
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,480
like i'm not going to do a big

559
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,720
overarching campaign

560
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,720
um i want to but it's too difficult you

561
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,880
know people going in and out i was like

562
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,160
let's just have fun so i was like

563
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,080
they're like i want to try this i'm like

564
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,600
you know what roll it i don't care let's

565
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,000
let's figure it out if you fail it'll be

566
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,840
fun and if you succeed we'll

567
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,760
you know i'll explain the ridiculousness

568
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,320
of you doing a backflip over a moving

569
00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,480
cart to like steal a coin purse off the

570
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,240
top or whatever so yeah i definitely

571
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,640
turn to that like we're just going to be

572
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:07,600
silly and go over the top and have fun

573
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,880
hmm yeah that's nice of just that the

574
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,600
freedom

575
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,880
uh of both the players and for yourself

576
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,039
just to have that

577
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,240
salinas as you said

578
00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:18,640
for

579
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:22,080
uh myself i'm

580
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:25,039
in a in a big campaign damn big campaign

581
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,240
along well man it's it's it's gonna it

582
00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:28,880
feels like forever and it feels like

583
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,080
it's gonna go on forever due to

584
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,080
me

585
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,440
doing a little bit too much and the

586
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,160
players taking

587
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,840
longer than i would have expected oh i

588
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,120
know all about that yeah which i

589
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,120
probably should have seen coming yeah

590
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:45,039
so i'm

591
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:48,480
adjusting future campaign arcs and

592
00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:51,280
seasons accordingly by here bringing

593
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,039
down some of the complexity just to make

594
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,919
it so we're not retired by the time we

595
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:55,440
finish

596
00:19:53,919 --> 00:19:57,039
but how do you feel about that kind of

597
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,960
adversarial

598
00:19:57,039 --> 00:20:00,240
dm archetype but the more older school

599
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,799
one of

600
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,960
i'm here to fight the players

601
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:06,880
it's an interesting one i think

602
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,000
again depending on the game you're

603
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,919
playing it can be absolutely fine so you

604
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,320
know i mostly played d d i just started

605
00:20:11,919 --> 00:20:15,840
playing savage worlds um

606
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,120
because that you know why the game

607
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,240
wanted to run that i was like sure i'll

608
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:23,200
give it a try and that game is just a

609
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,600
lot more it's an adversarial just on the

610
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,280
basis that like anybody can get one hit

611
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,480
at any time just based on how that's how

612
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,559
dice go

613
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,960
so it's like in that campaign i'm just

614
00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:33,919
ready for anybody to die at any point

615
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,240
because that's how it's supposed to be

616
00:20:33,919 --> 00:20:37,440
so i'm fine with that there it can be a

617
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,200
problem where

618
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,520
if everyone thinks like oh this is gonna

619
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,520
be you know i'm gonna level up this

620
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,799
character we're gonna just do whatever

621
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,640
we want you know not necessarily in a

622
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,480
bad way but it's like we know we have

623
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,320
goals we're going to finish them off

624
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,000
and the dm's like

625
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,600
maybe has different plans and those

626
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,039
plans don't line up i can definitely see

627
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,760
that being a problem i've been lucky to

628
00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:59,039
not play in that kind of game um i

629
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,480
definitely have seen it i know people

630
00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:02,159
have told about it

631
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,440
again that's also another communication

632
00:21:02,159 --> 00:21:05,760
thing because i i think there's nothing

633
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,360
wrong with like a deadly game or an

634
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,480
adversarial game

635
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:12,400
but players need to be prepared for what

636
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,159
they're getting into because though it's

637
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,200
always the problem where

638
00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:16,320
you know everyone's playing they

639
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,000
understand what's going on and the one

640
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,600
person's like well i wanted to be able

641
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,880
to do this and i'm upset that i can't do

642
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,159
this i'm like well

643
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,000
someone should have known what was going

644
00:21:22,159 --> 00:21:26,080
on at some point here not saying

645
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,440
anyone's wrong or anyone's right

646
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,480
so you should have known what you're

647
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,400
getting into and if it's not your kind

648
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,720
of game you know you can be polite and

649
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,640
either fix it or not deal with it but

650
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,000
people want to stay around and that's

651
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,120
where the adversary comes in where it's

652
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,720
like

653
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:41,360
when people aren't matching up and no

654
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,720
one wants to figure out a way to fix it

655
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:44,559
so like that's definitely a thing like

656
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,240
there are people archetypes like this is

657
00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:47,440
how i'd run games this is how i'm doing

658
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,840
it because i've been playing for 30

659
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,400
years and a new player might not like

660
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,000
that and it's just like that's how this

661
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,520
game is hmm

662
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,280
yeah a couple of interesting points in

663
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,799
that i'm

664
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,120
it's it's weird

665
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:02,559
my experience is limited in this

666
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:04,320
sense in that

667
00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:05,679
apart from one time i've only ever

668
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,640
played with

669
00:22:05,679 --> 00:22:10,799
people i know friends colleagues

670
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,400
but girlfriend um

671
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:14,000
that kind of stuff

672
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:17,120
the one time

673
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,720
i played with strangers in person going

674
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,919
back about three years at this point

675
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,120
wasn't

676
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:24,320
particularly enjoyable

677
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:25,760
let's just say they were playing a

678
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,840
different game and i'll leave it at that

679
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,080
oh that was them playing the mtg game

680
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,360
right

681
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,960
yes

682
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:34,240
yes if you were expecting one thing and

683
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,600
then that's what you got with them

684
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,280
trying to do a completely different

685
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,720
system and playing for themselves yeah i

686
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,400
would not want to play that game i

687
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,280
understand that completely

688
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,320
yeah so it's it's interesting uh

689
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,600
and

690
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,360
you know i i approached it quite

691
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,840
maturely if i do say say myself of just

692
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:51,039
you know politely declining to return

693
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,200
but even with

694
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:55,760
playing with friends it's still as i

695
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,400
said earlier on like my

696
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:01,039
hero hero idea of

697
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:04,080
my current game is is patently not true

698
00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:06,559
and the more i try to bend it to be that

699
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:10,240
the more there's going to be friction

700
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:12,400
and issues so yeah that's that's

701
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:16,240
interesting do you think your

702
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,159
player who turned dm player down dm

703
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,559
uh do you think he was impacted at all

704
00:23:18,159 --> 00:23:23,440
or was uh kind of

705
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:26,159
inspired at all by yourself

706
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,640
he very much um

707
00:23:26,159 --> 00:23:29,679
seemed to be like the way you explain it

708
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,000
where

709
00:23:29,679 --> 00:23:33,919
he seemed extremely prepared had a

710
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,679
a broad idea for it and we're still

711
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:37,280
going on that path but

712
00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:39,120
us as players

713
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,720
knowing this as the editor who gets to

714
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,840
cut out you know

715
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,440
the things that you know aren't

716
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,360
important to the story it's like there's

717
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,960
a lot of a lot of [ __ ] around and

718
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:49,200
there's nothing wrong with it it's fun

719
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,440
it's great in the moment but him being

720
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,600
like all right here's my giant plan

721
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,279
and then sometimes we'll

722
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,360
take longer so he's learned from he's

723
00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:59,360
learned to dm for us better i think this

724
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,200
is what i'm getting at so

725
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:03,279
like we went to a town

726
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,960
and we had like this big giant adventure

727
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:06,799
or you know like a session and a half

728
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,000
there doing our thing and he's like i

729
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:09,039
had literally two sentence written down

730
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,559
because you were supposed to go through

731
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:12,080
here but we played it by ear and i

732
00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:14,640
figured it out because i know you guys

733
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,400
can get caught up on literally anything

734
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,880
and then we'll be here for a little bit

735
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,880
so he's learned to he still has his

736
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:24,080
style his you know his overall plan that

737
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,919
he has but he's left wiggle room

738
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,640
to cater to the way that we play you

739
00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:30,640
know not breaking but bending for the

740
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,559
way that that we play which i think i

741
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,080
think he's uh a really good dm i think i

742
00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:36,000
like his style more than i liked my own

743
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,559
when i was doing it to be honest

744
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,120
oh that's that is high praise good on

745
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:44,080
him so we talked about dungeon masters

746
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:45,360
and role they fit in but now we've we've

747
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,400
had that discussion and i can think

748
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:51,360
about it it definitely seems

749
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,960
almost like a redundant question because

750
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,520
the nature of the game and the nature of

751
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,000
that position is so fluid

752
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,480
that there isn't really an archetype

753
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,080
that they can't be because it's so

754
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,480
it differs from table to table from

755
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,559
person to person and party to pie it's

756
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,720
just a unique combination of the whole

757
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:10,080
is greater than some of its parts almost

758
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,919
which is

759
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,840
interesting i mean there can be

760
00:25:11,919 --> 00:25:15,440
archetypes for dms but if they're not

761
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,960
fluid at all that's where you can run

762
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,400
into problems

763
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,240
so i guess there's one

764
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,679
the not fluid dm

765
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,960
yeah like now this is the way i'm doing

766
00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:24,480
it where i'm i'm not changing for

767
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,320
anything it's like oh boy this is gonna

768
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,679
be a long one yeah

769
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,360
yeah i

770
00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:31,760
pride myself on

771
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:34,240
having the flexibility to change but

772
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:37,520
things have to be justifiable in

773
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:39,840
universe justified to me and have kind

774
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,799
of like a a contextual

775
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:46,400
reasoning to do so so like taking the

776
00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:48,480
backflip example or whatever if you can

777
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,360
sell it to me essentially

778
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,720
then

779
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,799
we're good to go

780
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,880
it almost it almost comes across like a

781
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:56,400
you know a dragon's den shark tank kind

782
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,159
of thing when players want to do stuff

783
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,640
i'm like well let me hear you out come

784
00:25:58,159 --> 00:26:02,400
on put your proposal on the table why do

785
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,679
you want to how do you how are you going

786
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,679
to do this

787
00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:07,200
when i kick flip off of this and i jump

788
00:26:05,679 --> 00:26:09,840
on the crate and then i swing from the

789
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,000
light and then i turn upside down and

790
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,039
okay that's dope absolutely you can do

791
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,640
that

792
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:16,240
hit at least a 20 on a deck check and

793
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,039
you can do that i do not care how you

794
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,240
have it yeah yeah precisely and then a

795
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:21,919
couple of home brew things that have

796
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,760
come across of players saying like oh

797
00:26:21,919 --> 00:26:25,919
it'd be cool if if i had this or i'd

798
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,240
like to build this and

799
00:26:25,919 --> 00:26:30,880
yeah we've we've got there in the end

800
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:34,240
despite some initial trepidation on my

801
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,840
part due to well anxiety which um

802
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,679
you know i've got better at so hey

803
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,279
there's there's some some progression

804
00:26:37,679 --> 00:26:40,640
for you there that's good i actually do

805
00:26:39,279 --> 00:26:42,559
have a thing that i thought of since

806
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,679
we've been talking about archetypes

807
00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:46,799
which is

808
00:26:43,679 --> 00:26:48,640
this definitely varies from dm to dm you

809
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:50,320
have the

810
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,600
people feel away whatever they want

811
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,520
about matt mercer but there's a matt

812
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,840
mercer style where it's like

813
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,919
very descriptive tries to do character

814
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,559
voices you know that kind of thing which

815
00:26:57,919 --> 00:26:59,760
is

816
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:01,200
you know everyone has that ability but

817
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,840
it's very cool when you can do it you

818
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:06,080
know and then you also have the um i

819
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,600
think it's harman quest i've never

820
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,960
watched it fully but i've had people

821
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,559
talk to me about it where he like

822
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,000
doesn't do any voices he's very

823
00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:13,840
straightforward like he's reading from a

824
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,360
book and you play it like that so i

825
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,240
guess again i think it's harming

826
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,000
question might be wrong we'll never

827
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,559
listen to it so i don't want to

828
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,960
misquote it but there's definitely

829
00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:24,640
the person who's the dm who's like i do

830
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,760
voices i want to do a lot of social

831
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,720
stuff

832
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,640
but there's

833
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,760
dm's who look the three pillars

834
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,039
differently

835
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,320
so some people are just like you know

836
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:34,159
there's social stuff you know just talk

837
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,679
to them roll it we're done those other

838
00:27:34,159 --> 00:27:37,039
people are like let's have a full

839
00:27:35,679 --> 00:27:39,279
conversation

840
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:40,960
the way you talk to me will affect how

841
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:42,880
these you know there are people who

842
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,360
approach the game differently not

843
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,399
necessarily a style or an archetype but

844
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,720
like

845
00:27:46,399 --> 00:27:50,080
hardline this is what i do

846
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,480
and then other people are like this is

847
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,080
how i do it like i want to do mostly

848
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,679
like i've never done a dungeon crawl

849
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,679
because to me that doesn't sound

850
00:27:55,679 --> 00:27:59,919
extremely exciting i like doing dungeon

851
00:27:57,679 --> 00:28:02,559
parts but i like doing i like a 50 50 of

852
00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:04,320
social and yeah uh of combat stuff and

853
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:05,760
there are dms for just like you know

854
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,600
it's gonna be 80 combat and i'm not

855
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,600
doing voices because that's only 20 of

856
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,000
my game so i'm not doing social stuff in

857
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,960
depth like somebody who would do

858
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,320
you know either a 50 50 or like a 70 30.

859
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,279
like i want to do a lot of social and

860
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,039
we'll have a little bit of combat

861
00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:21,440
because it's fun but

862
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:23,120
that's an archetype for sure

863
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,559
yeah i i

864
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:26,640
i mean you can be the mapmaster

865
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:28,840
archetype if you're a trained you know

866
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:32,399
career professional it's good to be met

867
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,520
mercer so i can yeah i can see why

868
00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:36,159
people

869
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,799
want to be like that but it is it is

870
00:28:36,159 --> 00:28:39,840
a fine line especially if you're writing

871
00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:42,559
the fluff

872
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,799
yourself like narrative fluff

873
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:47,440
you know none of us say well i imagine

874
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:49,520
very few of us are creative writers you

875
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:53,840
know there is the venn diagram sometimes

876
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:56,159
overlaps but i imagine most dm's aren't

877
00:28:53,840 --> 00:29:00,480
creative writers by trade so

878
00:28:56,159 --> 00:29:02,000
writing good fluff for rooms in regions

879
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,880
and areas

880
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,440
can be quite easy to get wrong like you

881
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,960
just talk garbage for 10 minutes and at

882
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,039
the end your players like

883
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,799
what was that

884
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:14,080
okay i got bored halfway through because

885
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:15,679
you were just where's the door at that's

886
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,200
all i need to know yeah yeah because you

887
00:29:15,679 --> 00:29:21,200
were just talking about the grains of

888
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:23,600
sand and the the dust and the

889
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:27,520
the species of squirrel that inhabit

890
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:30,320
this area and like

891
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,240
it's you know tight rope walking that

892
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,000
fine line of

893
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,960
here's enough thematic

894
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,760
juice

895
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,679
but

896
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,440
not just superfluous garbage that no one

897
00:29:37,679 --> 00:29:40,799
cares about because then you have the

898
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,679
opposite where it's like you walk in a

899
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:45,840
room uh from the south uh there's a door

900
00:29:43,679 --> 00:29:47,520
to the north okay yeah anything else

901
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,000
anything else going on dm what's going

902
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,520
on here yeah like those literal like

903
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,440
amiga dungeon crawlers which are

904
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,679
literally like forward left right

905
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,679
forward left right

906
00:29:55,679 --> 00:29:58,799
like we've we've we've come so far since

907
00:29:57,679 --> 00:30:00,000
then so

908
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:02,399
yes

909
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,799
yeah i'm i'm completely of the same

910
00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:06,840
school of thought as yours i

911
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:10,480
i'll add a dungeon in where it's

912
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,480
necessary but it is always thematic if

913
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,799
anyone were to say it's a dungeon crawl

914
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,000
that would be a failure in my eyes on my

915
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:18,720
part

916
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,960
if they felt that way about it because i

917
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,640
wanted to be more than that yeah i agree

918
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,240
i was the exact same way i'm like big

919
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,000
open spaces

920
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,840
we'll go inside once in a while to do

921
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,440
stuff that's like yeah let's not just

922
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,360
all right i'm in the dungeon now i don't

923
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,720
like that people to feel that way again

924
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,919
it's just a personal thing that's that's

925
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,919
my my thing so yeah

926
00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:40,579
[Music]

927
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,520
so talked about dms let's

928
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,880
loop back around and i've got a really

929
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,640
juicy one at the end

930
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,200
i'm keeping on on the back so let's

931
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,960
before we get there let's talk about

932
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,840
typical players

933
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,279
and

934
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:03,840
i'll open up the discussion with

935
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:07,440
the obvious one about as obvious as the

936
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,320
emo rogue we have the rules lawyer

937
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,679
yes

938
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,360
so have you got any experience of that

939
00:31:11,679 --> 00:31:15,440
type of player

940
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,200
you know good bad

941
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,200
what are your thoughts

942
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,200
so i've got it it depends you're right

943
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,279
it when you say rules lawyer it normally

944
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,799
feels bad yeah because it can be where

945
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:26,960
someone's talking over you like by

946
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:28,960
actually no one wants to hear that and

947
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,600
the games i've played are quote unquote

948
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,480
rules lawyer is a guy who's got about 30

949
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,720
years

950
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,159
of experience and it's like oh how does

951
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,519
this work he's like hold on actually i

952
00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:39,519
think it's like this

953
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:41,679
so it's more of an ask and a tale

954
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:43,760
instead of just interrupt and tell

955
00:31:41,679 --> 00:31:45,279
and then playing a wizard i have to know

956
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,519
all that stuff

957
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:48,880
so if anyone else so we have

958
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:50,720
you know like i'm a full wizard we have

959
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,640
someone else who was an arcane trickster

960
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,559
and then they took a level and wizard so

961
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,080
i'm like if you got questions you know i

962
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:57,360
i believe me i've read over it enough i

963
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,559
can help you out

964
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,320
but i'm not like hey you're doing your

965
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:02,399
spell wrong it's like how to wait a

966
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,919
minute am i like it's this you're good

967
00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:06,159
how about it and then like i said the

968
00:32:03,919 --> 00:32:07,760
guy who's got tons of experience like we

969
00:32:06,159 --> 00:32:09,120
look at him like hey

970
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,760
you know what's going on he's like oh

971
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,600
yeah i got you so that's good type but

972
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,440
there's i had a couple of experiences

973
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,960
not gonna name names of where it's bad

974
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,480
it's like can i just play can i just

975
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,640
play the game can we just play the game

976
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,039
he's like actually we need to

977
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,200
you need the component it's like

978
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:27,679
all right i understand but you know you

979
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,480
could you could say this nicer i suppose

980
00:32:27,679 --> 00:32:30,559
yeah

981
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,039
it's interesting i've been fortunate

982
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:35,760
enough not to have ever experienced a

983
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:37,120
proper like the the negative version of

984
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,880
a rules lawyer and you're right it does

985
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,039
have a negative connotation

986
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,799
probably wrongly so because

987
00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:45,120
i'd imagine nine times out of ten it's

988
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:46,799
more what you described of

989
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,360
i've got a question

990
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:50,640
how does this work again so i'm

991
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,039
fortunate enough to have one or two of

992
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:56,240
those in in my game as my players and

993
00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:57,840
they are often because i'm forgetful and

994
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,760
it's just like god i can't remember if

995
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,760
you get hit when you're incapacitated is

996
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,840
that a death save or is that a crit i

997
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,720
you know can someone tell me here

998
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,320
yeah

999
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,799
and they usually jump in there and

1000
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,720
they're like oh it's this or it's yeah

1001
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:11,919
it's two to saves and a crit and this

1002
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,360
that and the other one

1003
00:33:11,919 --> 00:33:16,480
and and that's

1004
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,080
how they lawyer us to have fun

1005
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,000
yeah exactly laura's gonna be good

1006
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,600
especially like when you're at that mid

1007
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,120
to upper levels

1008
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,720
where yeah if you have someone else

1009
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,120
who's played a high level spellcaster

1010
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,320
and it's your first time absolutely look

1011
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,679
for because there's it can get

1012
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,440
complicated that's why they tell new

1013
00:33:29,679 --> 00:33:32,960
players to play a fighter because the

1014
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,880
spellcasting can get pretty hard when

1015
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,960
you get up there yeah yeah funnily

1016
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,799
enough in the the actual playpodcast i

1017
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,240
mean i also play a wizard i think my

1018
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:44,000
level uh

1019
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,279
tennis give or take and same yeah it's

1020
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,640
there's

1021
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:49,519
the court is big and you've got a lot of

1022
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:52,480
balls to throw around

1023
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:53,600
one of the players in a short campaign

1024
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,840
i'm running

1025
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,760
i took over the dm for a little while i

1026
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,519
think i mentioned it way earlier on in

1027
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,760
an earlier episode but

1028
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:03,600
he literally pendulum swung from playing

1029
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,480
a barbarian and then in the short

1030
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:09,359
campaign we're playing now a wizard and

1031
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,720
i was like okay dude you have just you

1032
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:12,240
know no disrespect to barbarians my

1033
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:15,520
favorite character i'm playing right now

1034
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:17,839
is my barbarian it's sick i love him

1035
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,679
but he has just opened that book

1036
00:34:17,839 --> 00:34:21,919
and and seen that there's like 10 more

1037
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:24,159
chapters

1038
00:34:21,919 --> 00:34:25,280
an hour yes to learn

1039
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:27,599
and

1040
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,639
a good anecdote of that is before we

1041
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:30,720
started

1042
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:32,960
i was sitting through and was like just

1043
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:34,720
just be careful because

1044
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,399
wizards and their spell books are a bit

1045
00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:38,560
of a minefield with trying to work out

1046
00:34:36,399 --> 00:34:40,320
how many spells you have versus learnt

1047
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,480
versus are prepared

1048
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,839
yeah yeah so be a bit careful because

1049
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,159
it's very easy to

1050
00:34:43,839 --> 00:34:48,800
to screw up there and we're using d

1051
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:50,240
beyond and it doesn't i think on dnd

1052
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,079
blind you can just keep adding spells

1053
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:53,599
because it you might pick them up you

1054
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,839
know as a wizard you can just pick up

1055
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:57,280
new spells as you're walking around so

1056
00:34:55,839 --> 00:34:58,880
so we went through that and i explained

1057
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,760
to him and all that and he's oh this

1058
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,640
isn't

1059
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,560
i need

1060
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,520
can i have some more spells that i've

1061
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,760
learned

1062
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,599
through our traveling we've gone through

1063
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,960
i'm like dude you're literally the most

1064
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:10,000
flexible class you've gone from no

1065
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,720
spells

1066
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,800
to the class with the most flexibility

1067
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:16,880
and you still want more so that was my

1068
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,119
first thought process there of

1069
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,079
i don't know maybe something's not quite

1070
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:21,920
correct

1071
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:24,640
in his understanding because this is

1072
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,560
like the most flexible you can be yeah

1073
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:29,119
and the most utility of

1074
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,480
pretty much any class so we we basically

1075
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:31,920
agreed yeah okay

1076
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,240
let's say you would have started with

1077
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,320
500 gold you can spend that to

1078
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,400
transcribe spells into your book until

1079
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:41,359
you've run out of that money so we ended

1080
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,440
up you know adding say five more than a

1081
00:35:41,359 --> 00:35:45,040
regular wizard who'd never found any

1082
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,240
spells would be at that point which is

1083
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:50,560
where i find my wizards that and we're a

1084
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:52,640
couple of sessions in now and i don't

1085
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,520
know whether it's ironic or

1086
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:58,400
awkward or whatever but i i can probably

1087
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,760
count on one hand the number of spells

1088
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:03,119
he's cast

1089
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:05,200
uh arcane eye fireball

1090
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:06,640
invisibility

1091
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,560
witch bolt

1092
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,560
silence

1093
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,240
and that might be it actually some

1094
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,839
cantrips and that's about it yeah yeah

1095
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:16,440
and all the obviously um

1096
00:36:13,839 --> 00:36:18,079
oh magic missile six sorry two hands um

1097
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,079
[Laughter]

1098
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:22,960
but obviously out of a pool that he went

1099
00:36:20,079 --> 00:36:24,640
to great lengths to expand and you know

1100
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,160
off the top of my head you know in your

1101
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,599
book at level 11 you've probably got

1102
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,359
about 25 spells if not yeah i'm looking

1103
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:33,839
right now just to have fun i pulled up

1104
00:36:31,359 --> 00:36:35,359
my d debian sheet for my character i'm a

1105
00:36:33,839 --> 00:36:38,320
ninth level wizard

1106
00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:41,839
i have 36 known spells

1107
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,440
four can trips and i can have uh 14

1108
00:36:41,839 --> 00:36:46,000
normal spells prepared

1109
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:48,320
yeah uh and that's a level nine wizard i

1110
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,560
did i think find a spell book or two in

1111
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,800
there but most of that is just level up

1112
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,560
naturally in a couple here and there

1113
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,240
yeah i don't even i don't i don't use

1114
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,640
half of these no i haven't used half of

1115
00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:00,160
these first level spells like after we

1116
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,240
got through like our first arc and i've

1117
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:05,920
never used this stuff again but it's so

1118
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:08,079
much available yeah for sure for sure so

1119
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,560
he was almost what's the opposite of

1120
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:13,040
analysis paralysis he was just like a

1121
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:16,240
glutton for like suddenly someone's just

1122
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:18,320
opened the door and say said gone wire

1123
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:19,839
go wild with these spells he's just

1124
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,880
gonna i want more i want more i want

1125
00:37:19,839 --> 00:37:22,400
more

1126
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,400
but then when we've actually played

1127
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,560
he's like actually i can't you know this

1128
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,800
is never really going to work or this

1129
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,800
one like it sounded good on paper but

1130
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,800
it's actually kind of crap i never use

1131
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,000
it in real life yeah like this one i

1132
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,119
can't ever cast because it's

1133
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,040
concentration then i'm usually

1134
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:38,880
concentrating on this other one

1135
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,000
so there was a there was a gap there in

1136
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,599
his

1137
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,880
knowledge where perhaps a rules lawyer

1138
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:46,079
would have been

1139
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,839
useful to him ahead of time yeah i i did

1140
00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:49,680
that whenever i was making it i'd look

1141
00:37:47,839 --> 00:37:50,880
to the guy with all the experience and i

1142
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,480
was like

1143
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,320
you know i'm picking the two spells from

1144
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,640
my level up i'm thinking between these

1145
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,640
four what do you think he was like those

1146
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,000
are some good ones that that fourth one

1147
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,200
probably not going to be used and i'll

1148
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,720
read through it again i'm like man

1149
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,880
you're probably right so that definitely

1150
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:06,880
saved me from wasted spells so that that

1151
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,160
rules lawyer quote unquote was it was a

1152
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,400
good thing to have

1153
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,640
yeah so i mean we're almost finished

1154
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,640
with that but that was a good learning

1155
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,480
experience for him to be like okay it

1156
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,520
isn't all what it's cracked up to be

1157
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,119
just

1158
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,000
to really you know let those floodgates

1159
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:21,599
open

1160
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,200
but i think after all of this discussion

1161
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:26,480
what's

1162
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,160
probably the best outcome is that

1163
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,400
rules lawyers should probably

1164
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,640
see themselves more as a mental

1165
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,119
that mentorship role of

1166
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,200
i've been here let me help you out and i

1167
00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:39,359
i you know i love it when when i'm in

1168
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,280
the middle of dm'ing and there's

1169
00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:42,720
numbers are flying left right and center

1170
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:46,480
and there's a million one things going

1171
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:48,320
on and someone just goes oh actually uh

1172
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,800
you've forgotten about this and oh thank

1173
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,480
goodness because

1174
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,920
thank you for that

1175
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,320
you know just just more of that

1176
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,920
mentorship between players i think it's

1177
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,839
probably a more wholesome and positive

1178
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,440
way to approach it yeah and that's why

1179
00:38:59,839 --> 00:39:02,800
it seems to be most of the time so

1180
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,800
that's that's probably the word we

1181
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,440
should use from now on right yeah yeah

1182
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:10,240
okay let's start a campaign to distance

1183
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,359
ourselves from the maligned connotations

1184
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:14,160
of uh

1185
00:39:11,359 --> 00:39:16,480
rules lawyering

1186
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,320
lawyer to rules mentor let's go there we

1187
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,920
go i don't know if there's any other

1188
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,920
types of

1189
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,800
players that you've come across that

1190
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,720
would would fit and you know

1191
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,440
an archetype positive or a negative one

1192
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:31,520
i mean there definitely are

1193
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:34,240
it's sort of why certain players pick

1194
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,760
certain classes because you'll have your

1195
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,839
your lone wolf which you know do a lot

1196
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,680
of rows and stuff where it's like

1197
00:39:37,839 --> 00:39:41,359
hey i've got to steal everything and i'm

1198
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,880
doing this all my own like when the

1199
00:39:41,359 --> 00:39:44,000
party goes to sleep i sneak off and do

1200
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,920
my own thing

1201
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,520
which which is interesting i mean it's

1202
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,640
nice to keep a party together but

1203
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,200
there's definitely

1204
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,280
that certain person who will leave the

1205
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,400
party and do their own thing uh that's

1206
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,400
again that's not always a detriment

1207
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,320
sometimes can be fun where this person

1208
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,320
comes back and like oh we've uh we

1209
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,640
figured out this puzzle uh we know where

1210
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,040
this guy is at that we need to find

1211
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,079
and uh i've also got an extra 500 gold

1212
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,359
it's like

1213
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:08,880
all right i mean i guess those are

1214
00:40:07,359 --> 00:40:11,040
positive things but it's like we're

1215
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,800
about to go into the meeting with the

1216
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,720
with the king and it's like oh you're

1217
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,560
your guy's not back yet so you're down a

1218
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:18,240
party member it's like oh so that was

1219
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,240
gonna be positive and negative to the i

1220
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,760
guess i would call like a lone wolf

1221
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:24,560
again you can't really play d and d with

1222
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,400
one person i've never seen a one one dm1

1223
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,079
player um

1224
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,319
so i guess they have to play with a

1225
00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:32,160
group but yeah that there's an archetype

1226
00:40:30,319 --> 00:40:33,680
of people who like i'm gonna do my thing

1227
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,480
because my character would do this it's

1228
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,240
like

1229
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,920
i guess so

1230
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:39,680
my good damn friend of mine jamie who

1231
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,599
was on previous episode that literally

1232
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,440
went out about six hours ago funny

1233
00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:46,000
enough his first experience was a

1234
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,640
one-on-one with myself um

1235
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,119
interesting i've never seen it i mean it

1236
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,200
wasn't oh you know a typical

1237
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:54,960
game i think it goes without saying it

1238
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,400
was

1239
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,000
you know we were we were catching up we

1240
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,599
were having a lot of drinks as well uh

1241
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,599
that helped and i had to do a lot of

1242
00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:02,800
hard work to balance because obviously

1243
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:05,520
balancing

1244
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,599
a one pc party is you know the framework

1245
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,920
is just in the bin at that point so i

1246
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:11,920
think his first combat as a level one

1247
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,960
character was with with like the three

1248
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:16,800
cats

1249
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,800
that literally like cr0 cats

1250
00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:22,319
that's about as fair as it could get so

1251
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,400
trying to um you know crowbar that in

1252
00:41:22,319 --> 00:41:26,960
in the narrative of what like why a

1253
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:30,160
three tabby's fighting you was

1254
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:32,880
was was half the fun that's great yeah

1255
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,000
the the lone wolf uh thing i was worried

1256
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,800
when you were starting talking we were

1257
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,319
going to get into like a

1258
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,000
psychoanalytical

1259
00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:39,920
human being

1260
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,839
thought process of

1261
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,400
you know personality types and stuff but

1262
00:41:41,839 --> 00:41:46,640
um yeah so lone wolf is

1263
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,839
is one and uh

1264
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,040
one i don't have a huge amount of

1265
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:50,160
experience with

1266
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,480
myself

1267
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,160
but i think the more tricky issue you

1268
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,599
touched on was kind of that's what my

1269
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,079
guy would do

1270
00:41:55,599 --> 00:42:00,240
so probably with a worse

1271
00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:02,640
a justifiably worse reputation than a

1272
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:05,200
rules lawyer we've got the myguy

1273
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,800
syndrome as it's known

1274
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,920
i don't know if you've had any

1275
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,280
experiences with that at all yeah for

1276
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,160
sure where it's

1277
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,359
yeah

1278
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,960
like we were talking about earlier with

1279
00:42:13,359 --> 00:42:16,640
like the chaotic person like catching

1280
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,160
the email market on fire or it's like

1281
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,839
yeah nobody would do that he's like well

1282
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,200
maybe my guy would do that so i have to

1283
00:42:19,839 --> 00:42:22,560
play with mikey yeah i know what you're

1284
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,240
talking about it's

1285
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,720
i've been lucky to not experience it too

1286
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,960
much but it's like once

1287
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:30,560
i i've actually when i was dming i had a

1288
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,800
character do that and it was fine

1289
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,160
because it was like the silly uh moving

1290
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,760
towards the silly campaign thing but it

1291
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,839
was like

1292
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,599
i don't i don't this isn't fun for

1293
00:42:37,839 --> 00:42:41,200
anybody i don't really think this would

1294
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:44,480
make sense but it's like yeah my god i

1295
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,480
would would try to as a barbarian

1296
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,160
rob like a highly secure thing and

1297
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,000
literally just like almost kill all the

1298
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,599
just the town guard they're just doing

1299
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,880
their job he's like yeah but i want that

1300
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:55,359
thing in that building is my character

1301
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:58,160
would just would just take it it's like

1302
00:42:55,359 --> 00:42:59,200
i guess um but again it was it was silly

1303
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,720
so it didn't

1304
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,560
cause too many problems but i could see

1305
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:04,000
in a more serious campaign like

1306
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,079
you can't just do whatever you want to

1307
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,359
do and not expect consequences and they

1308
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:09,280
don't get mad about the consequences i

1309
00:43:07,359 --> 00:43:11,440
guess when it happens yeah

1310
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:14,720
yeah but that's this is

1311
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,160
this is where i'm struggling so again so

1312
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,680
i'll start from the top i'm i'm lucky in

1313
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,680
you i've never had like a really

1314
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,960
egregious example of i'm gonna murder

1315
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,160
the rest of the party because that's

1316
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,240
what he would do

1317
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,680
and it's never been that bad about a few

1318
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:26,800
minor instances in the past i was

1319
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,720
playing with my very first kind of

1320
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,480
proper group whereas where is like well

1321
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:32,079
i just want to do this because i'm in a

1322
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,880
strop now okay

1323
00:43:32,079 --> 00:43:37,440
i'll humor you this time but uh

1324
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,200
actions will have consequences yep but

1325
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,319
that example of

1326
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,400
you know we're talking about i should

1327
00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:43,920
enable my anti-hero players to be

1328
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,160
anti-heroes

1329
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,760
but then on the same hand i'm

1330
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,079
trying to

1331
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,599
teach them that actions will have

1332
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:53,680
consequences so

1333
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:54,800
i've got a thought process coming up

1334
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,560
where

1335
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,760
they've just gone through a kobold

1336
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,720
dungeon

1337
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,839
and

1338
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,839
they have been

1339
00:43:59,839 --> 00:44:04,880
particularly

1340
00:44:01,839 --> 00:44:06,480
chaotic shall we say merciless

1341
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,119
they're you know they're not taking

1342
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,800
prisoners some kobolds have died

1343
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:12,720
you know through betrayal you know

1344
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,839
they've said oh we won't kill you

1345
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,440
tell us what we need to know and then

1346
00:44:13,839 --> 00:44:17,119
they'll they'll kill him you know

1347
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,760
they've burnt a couple of the bodies

1348
00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:22,240
just in case there's any kind of magic

1349
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,760
stuff happening so it's been pretty

1350
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:24,880
brutal

1351
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,160
carnage

1352
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,119
i have to say

1353
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:31,440
and i am toying with the idea of there

1354
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:33,760
being some kind of you know

1355
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:36,319
celestial comeuppance

1356
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:38,160
that they might have to meet you know

1357
00:44:36,319 --> 00:44:39,520
some some some kind of

1358
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,240
payment for their

1359
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:44,000
almost genocidal crimes

1360
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:46,319
and now i'm like oh maybe i shouldn't do

1361
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,880
that because it's you know i'm back into

1362
00:44:46,319 --> 00:44:51,040
the you're not playing heroes and this

1363
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,119
is me kicking you in the ass i don't

1364
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,319
know there's a so there's like a middle

1365
00:44:53,119 --> 00:44:55,359
point to that where it's like you can

1366
00:44:54,319 --> 00:44:57,839
give them

1367
00:44:55,359 --> 00:44:59,440
if it makes sense a consequence right

1368
00:44:57,839 --> 00:45:01,200
but it doesn't have to be like an

1369
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,560
end-all be-all consequence like you

1370
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,400
could say

1371
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,960
one of them survived

1372
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,400
and made it out and then they have a

1373
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,920
small group

1374
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,359
that attacks the party in the night

1375
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,119
whenever they find them you know a month

1376
00:45:11,359 --> 00:45:14,720
later or whatever it's not going to be a

1377
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:16,400
deadly combat no one's going to die but

1378
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,359
it's like hey when you do things bad

1379
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,280
things or like you say with the

1380
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:21,520
celestial thing you could have

1381
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,680
some sort of holy figure be like

1382
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,800
you need to get it together or there's

1383
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,839
going to be a lot bigger problem you

1384
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,440
know however you want to play you know

1385
00:45:25,839 --> 00:45:29,440
it depends on your world and in the way

1386
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,079
that your characters act but like

1387
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,359
they can do bad things and then there

1388
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:34,880
could be consequences that aren't

1389
00:45:33,359 --> 00:45:36,640
necessarily tpk that doesn't have to be

1390
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,319
the only consequence yeah it can

1391
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,359
straight up be like people at town heard

1392
00:45:38,319 --> 00:45:40,720
about horrible things you do no one

1393
00:45:39,359 --> 00:45:42,000
wants to deal with you in this town so

1394
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,920
like you got to just

1395
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:46,000
move on because no one likes you anymore

1396
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,119
because you're awful people like that's

1397
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,640
again that's

1398
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:50,640
that's not the end of the campaign no

1399
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,960
one's gonna die but it's like that

1400
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,960
really inconveniences people so maybe

1401
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,800
you know you can still

1402
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,280
be who you want to be you can be any

1403
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,040
hero but just like i don't know don't be

1404
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,440
crazy or you know do it quietly that's

1405
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,440
me yes

1406
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,520
that's a life lesson right there

1407
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:10,079
yeah

1408
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,760
you can be bad if no one catches you

1409
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:12,960
oh god i don't know what we're promoting

1410
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,720
now we've

1411
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:18,079
we've gone into some some dark corner of

1412
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:18,079
this podcast you're a word snap

1413
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,839
okay that is reassuring because

1414
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,760
you know i think that would be something

1415
00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:25,440
good and they've had something similar

1416
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,440
in the past where you know

1417
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,280
a former ally has tried to distance

1418
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,800
themselves from the from the players

1419
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,079
because they've said

1420
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,319
you know i don't want to associate with

1421
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:35,040
you guys anymore because of your antics

1422
00:46:34,319 --> 00:46:36,160
so

1423
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,200
soz

1424
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,880
but

1425
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,599
you're on your own now and that they've

1426
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:43,520
had to turn to more nefarious allies in

1427
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:46,960
jew kind which is actually now i think

1428
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,720
about it a kind of cool feedback loop of

1429
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,480
we did bad things we have to talk to bad

1430
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:52,079
people which are going to encourage us

1431
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,920
to do more bad things which is going to

1432
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:55,119
encourage us to talk to more bad people

1433
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,800
so

1434
00:46:55,119 --> 00:47:00,160
i guess we're still talking about my guy

1435
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,839
syndrome just in in a way of you know

1436
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,640
yeah ensure that their actions have

1437
00:47:01,839 --> 00:47:07,599
consequences and try and leverage that

1438
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:09,119
into a positive way now

1439
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:11,280
you know obviously there's a limit and

1440
00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:14,960
there's extremes and if if one player is

1441
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:16,880
just being a knob and is actively

1442
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,880
diminishing the fun

1443
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,319
then get rid of them

1444
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,680
yeah

1445
00:47:20,319 --> 00:47:23,280
but if it's if it's you know light

1446
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,040
touches here and there then yeah lean

1447
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,880
into it make sure actions have

1448
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,640
consequences and

1449
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,359
you'll come out the other side with a

1450
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:33,280
hopefully a more interesting game

1451
00:47:31,359 --> 00:47:35,200
yeah i think the people who do the my

1452
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,119
guy and stick to it don't probably last

1453
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:39,280
in a group very long it's a thing where

1454
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:40,319
it's like hey maybe you do what my guy

1455
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,839
wants

1456
00:47:40,319 --> 00:47:43,520
you grow from it or you move past it or

1457
00:47:41,839 --> 00:47:46,160
there's small consequences but like i

1458
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:48,480
don't i don't see a group where the my

1459
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,760
guy is there for like five sessions

1460
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,520
straight

1461
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,119
as a player or as a d might be like all

1462
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,800
right i mean we gotta figure out a new

1463
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:57,200
character or something because this is

1464
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,800
no one's having fun with this yeah

1465
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,599
okay so

1466
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,760
to

1467
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:07,520
get onto the a juicy topic then of

1468
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:09,280
the archetypal enemies so we've talked

1469
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,520
outside of the table we've talked you

1470
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:14,000
know players and dms as human beings

1471
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:16,160
we've talked in the game as player

1472
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,720
characters and so the other side of that

1473
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,960
coin to bring it to a close is

1474
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:22,559
the non-player characters and what best

1475
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,960
to talk about than

1476
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:26,400
the big bad evil guys the villains the

1477
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,359
enemies so

1478
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:31,200
what kind of villain archetypes are

1479
00:48:29,359 --> 00:48:33,200
there what kind of

1480
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,599
tropes and

1481
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,280
positions do they fill within a campaign

1482
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:38,880
there's two that you always get and

1483
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,920
actually i think i'll try to remind

1484
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,000
myself that there's actually an

1485
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,760
interesting one that i don't see very

1486
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,359
often i think really cool but of course

1487
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,680
you've got at the beginning it's like

1488
00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:49,680
small time crime boss it's just like

1489
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,000
your first obstacle at level one it's

1490
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,680
like uh i'm running i'm running a fence

1491
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,920
in the smallest town you're in at the

1492
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,359
beginning and it's i was like that first

1493
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,160
human character that you have to

1494
00:48:57,359 --> 00:49:01,440
overcome is like he's a small time dude

1495
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,200
and it's like oh big thing because

1496
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,119
you're level one or level two

1497
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,400
and then it immediately ratchets up to

1498
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:08,480
uh you know

1499
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,599
i'm a guy who's literally gonna destroy

1500
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,800
the planet if you don't stop me it's

1501
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:14,960
that those are the two you're gonna

1502
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:17,200
always see in like a big broad campaign

1503
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:19,839
little guy just you know making his

1504
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,520
living illegally and then

1505
00:49:19,839 --> 00:49:23,040
you know a guy who's going to cut the

1506
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,119
world in half with a sword if you let

1507
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,119
him

1508
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:30,480
yeah it's funny when you when you lay

1509
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:32,640
out like bookends like that it is

1510
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,040
it doesn't make me smile the breadth of

1511
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:37,440
the game and how much you can have

1512
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,359
player character growth between levels 1

1513
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,880
to 20. i don't like to think about it

1514
00:49:39,359 --> 00:49:43,280
too much because it kind of smashes the

1515
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:46,079
fourth wall for me a little bit yeah but

1516
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:48,160
um yeah i've gone with

1517
00:49:46,079 --> 00:49:52,000
uh there is obviously a big a big bad

1518
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:53,599
evil guy in my campaign who is a a lich

1519
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,240
who has got some

1520
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:58,480
nefarious plans now

1521
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:02,319
this is a slight spoiler warning should

1522
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:03,920
any of my players listen but his end

1523
00:50:02,319 --> 00:50:05,520
goal

1524
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,359
it's a classic

1525
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,720
well from my point of view the jedi or

1526
00:50:07,359 --> 00:50:09,920
evil

1527
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:11,599
uh

1528
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,880
style was episode three so from his

1529
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:15,520
point of view

1530
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:17,520
it's legit right his thing is what he's

1531
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,839
trying to do is

1532
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:22,640
is right it's just is

1533
00:50:19,839 --> 00:50:25,440
this is gonna make sense and the outcome

1534
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:27,440
will be for the benefit of everybody in

1535
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,520
my world view

1536
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,920
so i was trying to think earlier on like

1537
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,240
we have anti-heroes are there also

1538
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:36,880
anti-villains is that a thing i feel

1539
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:39,760
like it must be a thing oh absolutely so

1540
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:41,440
again our dm says that um he's like i

1541
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,280
don't always succeed at this but i want

1542
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,280
my bad guys to be the the good guys of

1543
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,280
their own story right which is a great

1544
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:50,000
way to write those people so yeah like a

1545
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:52,880
perfect example that i think is

1546
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:54,400
in black panther killmonger

1547
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,680
i mean he's the bad guy of the story but

1548
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,760
he's really like

1549
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,920
he's entitled to the throne

1550
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:03,359
uh because he is of that bloodline

1551
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:05,280
uh he was left he was left in poverty

1552
00:51:03,359 --> 00:51:07,599
and abandoned by his own family after

1553
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,280
his family killed his father so him

1554
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:10,400
wanting to come back and take his place

1555
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:14,000
on the throne

1556
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:16,400
isn't really wrong like he's entitled to

1557
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,240
it and he was wronged by his own family

1558
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,359
so again if you take

1559
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:21,040
the movie i mean that movie's really

1560
00:51:19,359 --> 00:51:23,040
basically about killmonger more than it

1561
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,040
even is about t'challa and it's like

1562
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,800
yeah like i you know again because it's

1563
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,000
a movie he's a bad guy he's like oh i'm

1564
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,400
gonna send guns out and kill people

1565
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,240
whatever fine but his personal story is

1566
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,400
like i'm just trying to get home where i

1567
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:37,760
deserve to be and it was taken from me

1568
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:39,440
as a child so it's like is he

1569
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,440
is he wrong for thinking that i wouldn't

1570
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,280
think so like he was wronged by

1571
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,920
everybody and all he wanted to do was go

1572
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,920
home hmm yeah that is really good

1573
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,839
example of

1574
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,960
that and i love the line you you quoted

1575
00:51:49,839 --> 00:51:53,119
there of

1576
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,280
a good villain should be the hero of

1577
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:56,720
their own story which obviously gives

1578
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,839
you a lot of leeway there and here's the

1579
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:59,839
summary oh the website

1580
00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:05,839
is the antagonist of your story whose

1581
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:07,359
motivations and actions wow okay cool

1582
00:52:05,839 --> 00:52:09,680
i mean i don't have to record anymore

1583
00:52:07,359 --> 00:52:09,680
because uh

1584
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,640
even before okay google

1585
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,640
stop

1586
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,559
i was like hey let me tell you how this

1587
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:21,520
works yes guys let's get her to record

1588
00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:22,520
all the podcasts from that one

1589
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,160
that's great

1590
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,599
[Laughter]

1591
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,680
oh god i think that's the train of

1592
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:29,760
thought i was just saying um

1593
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,200
there's a lot of leeway for having

1594
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,880
villains feel like the hero of their own

1595
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,160
story because obviously their world view

1596
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,960
can be

1597
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,079
uh delightfully twisted

1598
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,240
to fit

1599
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:42,480
the narrative that you want and well

1600
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:43,680
there's a there's a type of

1601
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,040
npc

1602
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,440
i want to bring in

1603
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,880
who is kind of like the enemy of the

1604
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,200
enemy is my friend

1605
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:53,200
kind of thing so i want there to be this

1606
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,640
rival

1607
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,079
person this kind of slightly

1608
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,599
antagonistic

1609
00:52:56,079 --> 00:53:01,280
npc

1610
00:52:57,599 --> 00:53:03,760
but they kind of get on with i just

1611
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,520
haven't thought of it yet

1612
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,200
yeah well the one i was thinking of you

1613
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,880
know before i you know i answer the

1614
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,880
question is i've always wanted to see

1615
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,480
and rdm's talked about maybe doing it

1616
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,160
but he's like you wouldn't be the only

1617
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,520
adventuring party in the world it's like

1618
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,200
of course we would why would we be the

1619
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,440
only you know five six seven whatever

1620
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,280
people doing what we're doing so i would

1621
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:24,640
love the idea of maybe not the the big

1622
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,559
bad and evil guy but another or another

1623
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,640
venturing party who is you know they're

1624
00:53:26,559 --> 00:53:30,240
out there they're your adversaries and

1625
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,400
you're like you know like you show up to

1626
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:34,400
the to it you know clean out the goblin

1627
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,680
camp or you got to get this artifact so

1628
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,720
you can kill you know the guy who's

1629
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,319
going to cut the world in half with the

1630
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:39,520
sword and it's like they're already

1631
00:53:38,319 --> 00:53:40,960
there and they've already done it and

1632
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,800
you're like you're going to be

1633
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,079
confrontational but they're like yo like

1634
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,920
we're just

1635
00:53:44,079 --> 00:53:47,839
we're just doing

1636
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,280
the thing to stop this guy right but to

1637
00:53:47,839 --> 00:53:51,440
you they'd be happy and then of course

1638
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:53,760
my idea is that it's it's a mirror

1639
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,839
version of you so it's like

1640
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,720
because i play uh a gift uh gif yankee

1641
00:53:55,839 --> 00:53:58,559
wizard

1642
00:53:56,720 --> 00:54:00,880
because i like playing weird races so

1643
00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:02,720
i'd love if there was uh the gitzerai

1644
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,160
wizard on the other side it's like i

1645
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:06,800
would i would love just the idea of

1646
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,520
bizarro mirror us yeah

1647
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:12,400
just like being our adversaries

1648
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:14,000
so great minds again so i've done

1649
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,240
something very similar

1650
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,880
in my campaign and they were literally

1651
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:21,280
passed on ships going in opposite

1652
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,800
directions on the river and so my

1653
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,640
players made up of a bunch of classes

1654
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,079
and a bunch of races obviously my my

1655
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,160
party are

1656
00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:30,240
what i'd done is i'd basically shuffled

1657
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,800
them around

1658
00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:35,760
so instead of having a total sorcerer it

1659
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,520
was a total druid

1660
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,680
and instead of having this down the

1661
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,839
other it i just rotated them all kind of

1662
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,040
shifted them down one apart from one

1663
00:54:41,839 --> 00:54:45,280
combination

1664
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:47,599
the human warlock for reasons that will

1665
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,040
become apparent later in the campaign

1666
00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:51,760
as a kind of uh

1667
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,040
linchpin divining rod to the group but

1668
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,160
yeah they literally passed each other on

1669
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,680
ships

1670
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,040
and we're kind of looking over the

1671
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,240
banisters

1672
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,200
and we're like hang on a minute that

1673
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:02,319
looks a bit weird and obviously it was

1674
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,520
also

1675
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:05,119
interesting because they

1676
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,480
the party that they were passing was

1677
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:08,400
traveling

1678
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,920
towards where they'd just done their

1679
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,839
quest

1680
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,280
so it was like why are they going there

1681
00:55:11,839 --> 00:55:14,720
hang on that's an adventuring party

1682
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,079
going to we've just come and got

1683
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:18,319
treasure and

1684
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:21,440
killed a boss and stuff so

1685
00:55:18,319 --> 00:55:24,079
yes i would absolutely try and squeeze

1686
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,599
that in because my players were on that

1687
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:26,799
on it like sonic

1688
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:29,040
they were

1689
00:55:26,799 --> 00:55:31,119
so fun and people don't do it enough but

1690
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,799
it's just i love that like

1691
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:34,720
i don't know how much you like bad

1692
00:55:32,799 --> 00:55:37,200
movies but i think it's fast and furious

1693
00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:39,599
seven or six yeah where they they make a

1694
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:42,079
joke like the other squad that's doing

1695
00:55:39,599 --> 00:55:44,559
the crimes is literally just

1696
00:55:42,079 --> 00:55:46,559
that they're crew but reversed and they

1697
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:49,200
make a joke i just love it's like oh

1698
00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:51,520
i've got to fight me but you know he

1699
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:54,319
wears white instead of red yeah

1700
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:57,040
oh yeah yeah i even made

1701
00:55:54,319 --> 00:55:58,640
the names anagrams of the names of the

1702
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,960
players which is probably the most

1703
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:03,520
difficult part because

1704
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,720
fantasy names don't often work

1705
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,880
yeah stuff

1706
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:08,880
if you start moving those letters around

1707
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:11,599
they're already kind of you know iffy

1708
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,880
names in some cases so uh so yeah that

1709
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:13,680
is a very good

1710
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,359
because you're just playing with the

1711
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,520
archetype of the like

1712
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:19,920
the player party you're using as an

1713
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:22,079
archetype and you're building from that

1714
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,599
so yeah i would recommend and now i

1715
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:25,040
wanna know how excited i'm getting

1716
00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:27,440
thinking about it i'm gonna have to try

1717
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:30,000
and uh make that a bigger part i think

1718
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,319
when we go back it's so fun another

1719
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,079
archetype i like um this is sort of the

1720
00:56:32,319 --> 00:56:37,839
way a games run but it has to do with

1721
00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:40,000
with the villain or you know the npc is

1722
00:56:37,839 --> 00:56:41,359
there's an idea of running a campaign so

1723
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,359
you know

1724
00:56:41,359 --> 00:56:45,119
a lot of campaigns where you know you'll

1725
00:56:43,359 --> 00:56:46,559
go on a mission you know a couple

1726
00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:48,079
sessions you'll be doing a thing and you

1727
00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:49,200
take you know the dm's like all right

1728
00:56:48,079 --> 00:56:50,240
what's a cool thing in the monster

1729
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,319
manual

1730
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:53,920
that's a you know a cr of the of the

1731
00:56:52,319 --> 00:56:56,400
group and we'll fight that

1732
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:58,480
uh there's another idea for a campaign

1733
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,920
um might be like in shorter arcs but

1734
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,000
sort of a

1735
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:03,920
you look at a cool monster

1736
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,720
in the book right so say it's like a

1737
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:08,720
cr-12 or a 13 or whatever it is right

1738
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:10,079
and that is your campaign is that this

1739
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:12,400
monster that would normally be at the

1740
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:14,079
end of you know an adventure

1741
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,599
you know like short term

1742
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:17,520
uh you you kill it it's like all right

1743
00:57:15,599 --> 00:57:19,200
well we're going on this quest and oh

1744
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:21,280
it's a it's a it's a jibbering mouther

1745
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,640
or whatever they're called and that's we

1746
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,799
fight that that's the big fight and then

1747
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:27,040
we move on but the idea is like you know

1748
00:57:24,799 --> 00:57:29,200
uh we're gonna take like an aboleth

1749
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,040
which is pretty strong it's not you know

1750
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:33,119
taraska level strong but it's pretty

1751
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,119
strong and that is the bad guy for the

1752
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:36,960
entire thing it's like this is the this

1753
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:39,040
is the thing we're fighting against

1754
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,960
so there's not necessarily progressions

1755
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:41,920
of crime boss

1756
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,000
to

1757
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,640
the guide trying to kill the king to the

1758
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,079
god try and destroy the world it is

1759
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,359
here is this thing that's pretty

1760
00:57:48,079 --> 00:57:51,920
powerful

1761
00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:53,359
and this is the goal of this campaign

1762
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,799
those campaigns normally shorter but

1763
00:57:53,359 --> 00:57:57,280
it's also an interesting idea of just

1764
00:57:54,799 --> 00:57:59,440
like here's a thing and we're going to

1765
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:01,280
base everything off of this because like

1766
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,880
you look at specifically like an ability

1767
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,319
or you can do with like a hag where it's

1768
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,079
like the powers they can do it's like

1769
00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:07,440
control people do that like you can make

1770
00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:10,160
an entire like you go to three or four

1771
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,119
towns before you yeah end up finishing

1772
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,480
this thing off because like they can

1773
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:13,839
control people's minds so it's like you

1774
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,280
go to the first village and this one

1775
00:58:13,839 --> 00:58:17,280
dude's acting weird and we have to fight

1776
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,960
that we're low level higher level you

1777
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,880
know some of its minions have invaded

1778
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,799
this other town and like the last town

1779
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,400
everyone's mind controlled

1780
00:58:22,799 --> 00:58:26,559
and you've got to kill that with to free

1781
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,960
the town and like that could be you know

1782
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:30,960
six seven sessions and there's your you

1783
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,240
know quote unquote campaign i like that

1784
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,480
idea for

1785
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:37,040
a bad guy archetype or it's just here's

1786
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,400
one thing that's pretty cool and

1787
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,480
that's what it is i guess it's sort of

1788
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,520
like the idea of strawd except for when

1789
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,880
you play that there's a lot more things

1790
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,240
you have to fight but the idea of like

1791
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,640
here's the thing

1792
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:49,520
that's not impossible to kill but this

1793
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:52,559
is the main adversary for our adventure

1794
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,760
yeah there's quite an elegant purity to

1795
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:56,400
that because almost you don't even need

1796
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:58,000
to level up during that if it's gauged

1797
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,920
correctly or maybe once or twice just to

1798
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,440
make it fair but

1799
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:03,520
yeah there's quite a nice like

1800
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,119
self-containment to it yeah you could

1801
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,000
start at level five and into level nine

1802
00:59:05,119 --> 00:59:08,160
because

1803
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,599
you guys have already been adventuring

1804
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,960
you're of course you know you're not a

1805
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:13,280
level one character wouldn't go on to

1806
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,640
find a cr15 monster like that would not

1807
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,400
be where they start but let's say you've

1808
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,480
already been adventuring for a year you

1809
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,760
go from five to eight you fight this

1810
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,280
monster

1811
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,319
here's our there's our little mini arc

1812
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:25,040
we had

1813
00:59:22,319 --> 00:59:28,000
am i yeah as i said my feeling is

1814
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:30,480
delightfully obtuse to my players so far

1815
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:32,960
in the campaign you know big spouting

1816
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,480
monologues a couple times of this that

1817
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:37,040
and the other like you guys are fun

1818
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,799
though those are fun they're real fun i

1819
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,640
am looking forward

1820
00:59:38,799 --> 00:59:43,359
i'm a dingus because i spent way too

1821
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:46,079
long writing his final

1822
00:59:43,359 --> 00:59:47,119
monologue which the players won't get to

1823
00:59:46,079 --> 00:59:48,960
probably like

1824
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:50,400
two years and

1825
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,520
they might half of them might be dead

1826
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,359
and

1827
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,839
i've kind of framed it around the

1828
00:59:53,359 --> 00:59:58,640
current set of players and stuff so uh

1829
00:59:55,839 --> 01:00:01,359
yeah i am very much like i also got

1830
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,559
in place you know traps for silence and

1831
01:00:01,359 --> 01:00:04,319
so they can't

1832
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:06,319
they can't interrupt him

1833
01:00:04,319 --> 01:00:08,640
yeah it's like hey be quiet i get a

1834
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:10,640
thing to say yeah come on you and me

1835
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:14,000
i've humored you guys for like so long

1836
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:16,480
you gotta give me this

1837
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:18,079
yeah i'm i'm looking forward to that big

1838
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,920
like

1839
01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:20,720
holier than thou

1840
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,119
well

1841
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:25,119
you guys have a closed mind views uh you

1842
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:26,400
know world view here's the reasons why

1843
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:27,359
my thing is

1844
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,280
good

1845
01:00:27,359 --> 01:00:31,280
and actually i'm the good guy and you're

1846
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,880
the bad guys and that even leaves space

1847
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,640
for it probably won't happen because you

1848
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,319
know it's not necessarily how adventure

1849
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,000
party works but someone be like he's

1850
01:00:36,319 --> 01:00:40,240
right you know like what are we doing

1851
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:44,240
here that's that's what i want if that

1852
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:46,480
happens i will be like so ext like

1853
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,319
mission complete

1854
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,079
yeah that's great i i've already told my

1855
01:00:48,319 --> 01:00:51,599
dm i have a plan you know when we get

1856
01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:53,440
closer into this campaign

1857
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:54,880
my characters has a you know part of his

1858
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,079
backstory or secret or whatever he has a

1859
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,079
thing that he wants to do and it's going

1860
01:00:56,079 --> 01:00:59,680
to happen regardless

1861
01:00:58,079 --> 01:01:01,680
of what everyone else wants to do and

1862
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,680
it's not a it's not a you know going

1863
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,119
into business for myself like a my

1864
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:07,040
character kind of a thing it's like i'm

1865
01:01:05,119 --> 01:01:08,319
letting you know now and i'm doing

1866
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:10,000
things throughout the campaign that will

1867
01:01:08,319 --> 01:01:11,760
lead to that and i'll kind of let some

1868
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,960
people in on it but like when it gets

1869
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,640
this part it's like are you gonna do

1870
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:17,040
this or do that like he's gonna do that

1871
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,640
like this is what it's not a secret this

1872
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,880
is what he's going to do

1873
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,720
so i love the idea of the bad guys like

1874
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,240
this is what i'm going to do

1875
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,240
hopefully you guys pay attention but

1876
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:28,160
like i've got this thing and then i

1877
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:30,079
again if if a character has a second

1878
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,440
thought about it i would that's the best

1879
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:34,000
part like

1880
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:36,720
that oh my character i wrote actually

1881
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,240
did the thing that i wanted him to do

1882
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,160
yeah i'm really really looking forward

1883
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,000
to that to that moment

1884
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,680
have you had any other any other

1885
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:46,240
thoughts or anything else that we might

1886
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:47,680
have missed on today's topic

1887
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,680
no nothing i can think of yeah i mean

1888
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,359
archetypes are you know it's a good and

1889
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,559
bad thing i think it's mostly good again

1890
01:01:51,359 --> 01:01:54,799
normally

1891
01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:57,359
there are archetypes because they work

1892
01:01:54,799 --> 01:01:58,880
um there's could be good bad but

1893
01:01:57,359 --> 01:02:00,400
i think there's more good there than bad

1894
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,240
and then playing against an archetype is

1895
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,000
extremely fun that's all i'll say try

1896
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:06,720
thinking of something that

1897
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:08,079
you normally you know uh jack sparrow

1898
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,920
swashbuckling

1899
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:12,960
rogue and just give yourself like a

1900
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:15,200
seven decks and just have fun being a

1901
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:17,119
bumbling idiot who's just extremely

1902
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,480
lucky like jack sparrow except for you

1903
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:19,839
don't actually maybe things don't

1904
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,760
actually work out for you all the time

1905
01:02:19,839 --> 01:02:23,359
like they do like that's a fun time but

1906
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,960
yeah they're fun to play around with

1907
01:02:23,359 --> 01:02:26,640
they're fun to change up

1908
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:28,640
i think they're there for for a reason

1909
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,920
and yeah it's always a good time to to

1910
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:32,000
mess around with them

1911
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:35,280
yeah i think i think we said that like

1912
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:37,839
use them as a tool in your utility belt

1913
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:39,760
that players have to help guide or to

1914
01:02:37,839 --> 01:02:41,119
help make something but then yeah don't

1915
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,680
be afraid to

1916
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:45,440
twist them up and build on top of them

1917
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:48,160
to make things

1918
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:50,079
your own and i think there is you know

1919
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:52,319
just to look back a little bit there is

1920
01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:53,680
a place still for

1921
01:02:52,319 --> 01:02:55,839
you know it's always a world and good to

1922
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:57,920
have academic like i want my villain to

1923
01:02:55,839 --> 01:02:58,960
be the good guy and and

1924
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,559
this that the other but i still think

1925
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:04,960
there's a really

1926
01:03:00,559 --> 01:03:06,240
a genuine place for just like bad dudes

1927
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,720
oh yeah i could just shouldn't be oh no

1928
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:10,880
i'm just evil like yeah i want to kill i

1929
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,920
just want to kill you like i'm a god and

1930
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,000
i feel like this world should be

1931
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:15,520
destroyed like deal with it i don't have

1932
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,440
to explain anything to you oh my god i

1933
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:20,799
don't care yeah yeah there's a place for

1934
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:21,839
that the indifference of gods yeah yeah

1935
01:03:20,799 --> 01:03:24,720
for sure

1936
01:03:21,839 --> 01:03:27,599
cool all right well uh that that that

1937
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:28,480
pretty much brings us to the end and we

1938
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:30,720
we've

1939
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,000
covered a whole bunch of stuff there and

1940
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,160
i'm really happy with uh obviously

1941
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:36,559
google's input thanks

1942
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,559
all right a surprise guest

1943
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:41,599
halfway through um

1944
01:03:38,559 --> 01:03:44,160
thank you for for coming on is there

1945
01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:45,520
anything you like to plug well i just

1946
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,520
want to thank you for having me on this

1947
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:49,039
is a topic i like a lot and i appreciate

1948
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,559
you giving me a chance to talk about it

1949
01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:53,039
no worries yeah just follow me on

1950
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:55,039
twitter adamgumby that's where i'll

1951
01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:58,160
you know retweet stuff from

1952
01:03:55,039 --> 01:04:00,319
my d d podcast i'll misfit roles anytime

1953
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:02,079
i do you know talk about video games or

1954
01:04:00,319 --> 01:04:04,319
anytime i'm doing anything

1955
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:06,240
at adam gumby on twitter is the quickest

1956
01:04:04,319 --> 01:04:08,160
and easiest place so check it out check

1957
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,520
out the stuff i'm making at it and hope

1958
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,760
you guys enjoy

1959
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:14,960
excellent cool thanks again for coming

1960
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:17,359
on and thank you all for listening at

1961
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,799
home you can find me on my socials and

1962
01:04:17,359 --> 01:04:20,400
i'd love to hear from you guys and any

1963
01:04:18,799 --> 01:04:22,640
experiences you've had with those

1964
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:26,740
classic archetypes otherwise thank you

1965
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:32,030
all for listening and good night

1966
01:04:26,740 --> 01:04:32,030
[Music]