Alignment

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 16.

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today's topic is alignment

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined once again by scott

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aka optional rule thank you ever so much

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for joining us again today scott can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself

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thank you so much for having me on again

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it's great to be here my name is scott i

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go by optional rule on social media i've

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been gaming for about 40 years i've done

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a few small publications i write a small

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blog at optionalrule.com and you can

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follow me for twitter on twitter for d d

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advice and all sorts of gaming

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discussions at uh at optional rule on

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twitter amazing i think i think our

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discussions on stuff hasn't really

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stopped since the first time we've had

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you on the show which is which is really

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good and i'm very happy about that so

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yes i would encourage anybody that's got

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this very open to discussions on topics

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talking of topics today's is alignment

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so what does that mean to you in the d d

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framework no boy alignment oh man

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there's so much to unpack here so we've

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got a little while to do that so let's

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let's get into it so alignment is the

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biggest nothing burger

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in dnd to me yet it's something we can't

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avoid right it's one of the most

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complex yet least impactful topics

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uh in the game

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and i'm i'm of many minds about it so

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let's just start with a history like d

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and d started out with alignment way

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back in the original pamphlet and that's

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because d d started with this concept of

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like who do i attack it came out of war

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games right and in war

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very clearly you know who the good guy

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is you know who the bad guy is and that

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that concept came out of that like

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really generic definition of who a

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person is right that and that began in

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the earliest days of dnd and i know that

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gygax and arneson had this very

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strong concept of your alignment almost

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like your religion that uh they would

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think that it was like a guild some

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combination of a religion slash guild

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where alignments would have languages

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and so it was so deeply ingrained into

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the dna of early dnd

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that we just not extracted it from that

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going forward even though right now it's

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it's just in fifth edition it's just

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quasi attribute right

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it's supposed to kind of define

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something about your character but in

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the end it really doesn't beyond a

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little bit of flavor maybe on a few

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spells like spirit guardians you do

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necrotic damage versus radiant yeah no

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his his

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this is going to be a great discussion

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because you you can you can fill in the

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gaps in my knowledge from from you know

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the older editions that i can have the

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perspective of someone who's just just

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coming in a fifth edition and his i'm

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gonna open today's discussion with

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calling myself a hypocrite which is

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great

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but i always tell players

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when i'm when i'm trying to get them to

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engage with their characters i'm like

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look at the first page of a character

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sheet

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you've got ideas bonds flaws and traits

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taking up

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20

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of that first page like

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the game is telling you those are big

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deals like look at them

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use them as inspiration use them as

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motivation go on from there

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but then also you've got right at the

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top in the header block along with your

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name and your class and your race and

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lineage you know and experience and

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stuff you've got alignment

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but that also does very little

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so i can't really use that argument of

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like it's on the first page anymore

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because so's alignment and i you know

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i'm inclined to agree after that first

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what do i think this character might be

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in x many sessions time

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i'll plonk down something middling

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because

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that's easy

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and then never potentially ever look at

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it again yeah and there's i think a

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quasi attribute is probably the best

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best way to do it and and the more i

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think about it the more it seems similar

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to

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backgrounds rather than back stories so

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backgrounds in mechanically

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again i've got a couple of my players in

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my campaign recently unfortunately

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two of them are re-rolling new

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characters because they're

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something bad happened to their first

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set of characters and he's he's like

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i've just got to pick my background and

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i'm i've picked this one for now so i'm

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going to try and see how i can i've

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picked soldier and i want to see how i

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can make my guy a soldier and i was like

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don't don't feel like bound by that

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because that basically does so little it

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gives you maybe some weird feature that

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exists in isolation and

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probably might never get used and also

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some proficiencies i'll give you some

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proficiencies if you want some

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proficiencies don't like

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don't don't feel like you need to be a

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soldier for those proficiencies think

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about what you want your character to be

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and then pick something that

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seems similar so i think maybe alignment

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and background like maybe backgrounds

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will go their way of alignment next you

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know soon and just be even less maybe

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even more of this vestigial

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thing that's just knocking around and

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isn't there because

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it for me is as you said like alignment

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is this one thing that you

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are almost forced to put down at the

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beginning of character creation and then

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maybe never look at again

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yeah yeah maybe that maybe you just

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defined like one of the many many

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problems with it which is just placement

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on the character sheet right it's next

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to other things that if i if i have a

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high strength i know that means i can

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lift heavy things in my high decks i can

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dodge fast things or i know lots of

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things with a high intelligence but if

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you have an alignment what what does

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that

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mean what can you do

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there's an implication that you can do

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something because of it and that is just

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completely misplaced

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amongst all the other places so maybe

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maybe just like a first order problem is

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let's get it off the the top of the

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character sheet next to your name

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maybe it's not that that defining

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yeah i think that that that's

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the absolutely true i do think in in

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first edition

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that it was it meant a lot it meant a

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lot there were classes you could not

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take like you couldn't be a monk unless

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you were lawful you couldn't be a druid

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unless you were neutral um i forget to i

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forget that the list a long laundry list

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of things you couldn't couldn't do

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because of your classes but like

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paladin's only lawful good here not even

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just lawful you had to take a dreadnight

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or whatever it was they came up with

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some class later on um to let you be

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evil

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there was a very disambiguous time and

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and if you if you

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you know dnd is based on pop culture

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literature right now and if you look at

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the time that d d came up it was the

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middle of the cold war we had very

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strong definitions of good and evil

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whether they were accurate or not is a

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different story but we had strong

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different internal definitions of them

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and then if you look at the literature

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at the time

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tolkien robert e howard all there was a

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very strong like orcs are bad humans are

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good

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and i think the reason why

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it's so controversial today is because

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well actually there's a provenance to

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how that got controversial right because

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we got old enough to start the question

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like why are they evil like

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orcs have a culture

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are they all evil is that

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there's a great video by matt colville

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on this called um

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everybody loves a zombie or something

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like that

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it's it talks specifically about the

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utility of alignment the first order

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utility of alignment is who can i kill

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and have a good conscience

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that's that's the core of like who are

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the enemies who are the bad guys who can

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i kill because let's face it no matter

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what your alignment the body count for

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any player character is atrocious yeah

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right and everybody you know any uh many

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forms of media many artifacts in that

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media so like films most popular culture

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films action films you know who

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quite unquote the bad guys are you know

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who quote unquote the good guys are it's

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through decades to centuries of tropes

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to be like ah those guys in black suits

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with the sunglasses on that don't have

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names they're the bad guys and like dnd

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is no exception you'll have you almost

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it's almost kind of expected and on the

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one hand yes it's nice to

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have the freedom of expression in deity

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to be like well i'm gonna subvert that

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trope but

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the risk you run if you do that if you

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have these

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men in black

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guys who are you know bald and have no

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names that are just

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goons hired goons and you try and

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subvert that trope and make them be

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quote the good guys you can bet your

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players are going to be seeing them as

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the bad guys anyway or at least a couple

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of your players are because if they've

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been trained that way for

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the last you know adult years of their

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life so um

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i could yeah it at this this is why i'm

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i'm frustrated for the same reason you

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articulate at the beginning that it's

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it's nothing but also everything at the

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same time and i feel scared trying to

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talk about it when in reality like at

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any given table there probably isn't

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much

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sitting on the shoulders of alignment at

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all no nobody cares nobody

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i i tweeted about this a while ago like

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alignment is one of these weird

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there's no utility to the person

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actually playing it it's what you want

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other people to think about either a

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monster or a player it's just a weird a

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quick way to sum up

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okay they're this without having to get

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into their background right

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but it doesn't i've never met a player

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who was thought something was in

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character to do

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and didn't do it because it wasn't their

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alignment i've heard people say well i'm

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chaotic good so that's why i did this

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but they didn't do it because of that

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they did it because it was in character

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no no one's ever had like a great in

279
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,320
character motivation

280
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,760
and then not done it because their

281
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,800
alignment said something different they

282
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,680
always do the thing right so um and that

283
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,480
way

284
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:44,720
alignment is like a post facto attribute

285
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,640
as well like you you decide how you're

286
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,399
going to play and then you write the

287
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,360
alignment you don't write the alignment

288
00:09:48,399 --> 00:09:53,360
and then decide how to play so alignment

289
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,200
sort of a summary of all these concepts

290
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,360
you've come up with before

291
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,839
um so i think i mean it also lacks

292
00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,200
utility that way and for monsters it's

293
00:09:59,839 --> 00:10:02,640
just a

294
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,160
game masters have always done with

295
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,120
monsters whatever they wanted to do from

296
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:10,079
the earliest days the zoe's been like uh

297
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,240
ferdinand the bull uh versions of evil

298
00:10:10,079 --> 00:10:14,240
dragons like just want to sniff flowers

299
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,680
and sit on a hill um

300
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,680
and that's the earliest days i can

301
00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:19,360
remember from the earliest is 80 or good

302
00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,959
orcs or whatever

303
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,800
i have a thing about low high and low

304
00:10:20,959 --> 00:10:24,160
cultural i'll put a pin in because i do

305
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,279
want to talk about how i think it went

306
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:29,279
wrong in the 90s and early odds in a

307
00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:31,120
second but but overall

308
00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:33,360
alignment has always been like dms do

309
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,200
whatever they want with their monsters

310
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,680
this is just how they want other people

311
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,000
to understand monsters so i think it's

312
00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,920
also weird in that way it's always been

313
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,560
an attribute for other people and not

314
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,480
for the for the people running it

315
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,560
yeah talking of creatures i know that

316
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,920
there's a push or they're there i can't

317
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,279
remember how solid it is at the moment

318
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,120
but obviously they're gonna in in the

319
00:10:51,279 --> 00:10:55,360
newer books they're gonna change

320
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,839
in the creature stat blocks for

321
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,680
dms instead of just saying lawful good

322
00:10:57,839 --> 00:11:01,120
it will say typically lawful good i

323
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:02,880
think is is what they're pushing towards

324
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:06,320
and to me i thought that was

325
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,839
odd because i've always assumed it like

326
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,240
you know i've inferred that from you

327
00:11:07,839 --> 00:11:12,079
know that the whole game to me is

328
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,279
flexible from the dms point of view

329
00:11:12,079 --> 00:11:14,959
everything is

330
00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:16,399
malleable i can change anything to be

331
00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:17,440
anything i want if i want good dragons

332
00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:19,519
no one's

333
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,680
no one's standing over my shoulder about

334
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:23,440
to you know slap my wrist as i go and

335
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,360
type in this is a good dragon or you

336
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,200
know a good orc or something i can i can

337
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,720
do it because it's my it's my game so

338
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,360
whenever i've seen

339
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,120
hag say evil i've just gone ah but this

340
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,200
one isn't and that's fine and i've never

341
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,399
i never thought too much of it so

342
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,600
to me that's

343
00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:38,959
you know from the creature stat block

344
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,000
it's almost

345
00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:42,480
again

346
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,120
you know not even worth the ink that

347
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,880
it's printed on sometimes yeah i'm torn

348
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,640
on this issue though because i i agree i

349
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,240
think exactly the same way like because

350
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,360
i i think at a

351
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,519
for well i'll caveat in a second but um

352
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:58,079
at a space level my thought is like well

353
00:11:55,519 --> 00:11:59,839
for people who

354
00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:01,600
most people don't need that i think most

355
00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:03,440
people understand the typical part so i

356
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,000
think most people don't and for people

357
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,440
who do need that expressly spelled out i

358
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,240
don't think it matters anyway i think

359
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,480
they're gonna be ignorant ignorance is

360
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,560
a per is a very difficult thing to

361
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,480
overcome so if you're ignorant about it

362
00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:18,079
you're it's going to be typical just

363
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,480
saying typical isn't going to change

364
00:12:18,079 --> 00:12:22,800
those people indeed yeah but then again

365
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,560
my caveat is then i remember well there

366
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,920
are 12 year olds and 10 year olds that

367
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,920
play the game and

368
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,680
that's one of the major challenges of d

369
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:33,040
d right it has to work for people from

370
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:35,519
10 years old to 70 years old and

371
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,639
okay that i when i throw it in that

372
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:38,880
light

373
00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:40,639
i think i get it and and i do think they

374
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,880
want to undo well maybe we should talk

375
00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:45,760
about this now i do i there was a a

376
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:48,959
horrific turn that dnd took in the 90s

377
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:51,440
and early aughts where alignment became

378
00:12:48,959 --> 00:12:52,720
a statement about culture because prior

379
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,560
to that

380
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,639
you know alignment with monsters that

381
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,320
you ran into you opened a door in a

382
00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:00,639
dungeon and there were orcs in there

383
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,519
like evil kill them like that was the

384
00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:05,519
that was the extent of alignment right i

385
00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:07,200
know there was towns and lots of other

386
00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,760
things that happen

387
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,440
but generally that's how it was and one

388
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,120
one thing i want to point out alignment

389
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,839
has been subverted from the earliest

390
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,760
days of d d like if you look at um

391
00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:20,639
sinister secrets assault march that's it

392
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,639
yes um the third module in that whatever

393
00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:25,360
spoilers for a 30 year old 40 year old

394
00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:27,120
module by the way but um the uh in that

395
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,279
is a subverted alignment thing you go

396
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,720
against these lizard folk and you're

397
00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:32,320
supposed to stop them from destroying

398
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,320
the town and you find out the lizard

399
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,839
folk actually aren't evil that it's a

400
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,560
whole other thing going on right and

401
00:13:35,839 --> 00:13:41,440
that so from the earliest days very very

402
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:43,519
earliest days of dnd alignment has been

403
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,519
subverted it was understood that

404
00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:47,440
alignment can be different and um and

405
00:13:45,519 --> 00:13:48,720
and the reason why it got flipped around

406
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,079
was that

407
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,279
as we got into settings like the

408
00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:54,959
forgotten realms or or birthright or

409
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:57,680
dark sun or anything like that you

410
00:13:54,959 --> 00:13:59,360
started develop cultures around these cl

411
00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:01,920
these monsters from the monster manual

412
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,199
and culture became a very strong part

413
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,680
then people started to think well what

414
00:14:03,199 --> 00:14:07,600
do we mean by evil or good cult cultures

415
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:09,440
like an entirely cultural point of view

416
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,399
so they started to map that to what they

417
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,639
knew

418
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:14,560
and they misaligned because they had

419
00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:16,480
there's this concept of high culture and

420
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,399
low culture and that what that actually

421
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,160
is changes by

422
00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:23,040
culture of origin but people began to

423
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:25,839
attach it to what they saw as low

424
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,920
culture and in the orcs uh in case of

425
00:14:25,839 --> 00:14:30,320
works for instance it's often one of the

426
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,399
one of the racial tropes that people uh

427
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,240
say have been associated with orcs is uh

428
00:14:32,399 --> 00:14:36,000
related to african-american culture here

429
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,839
in the u.s and that that's been

430
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,600
absolutely racist and absolutely bad and

431
00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:41,120
i agree 100

432
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,040
but that it and

433
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,800
it tells you a lot about the culture

434
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,279
that they they reached for what does an

435
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,720
evil culture look like they misaligned

436
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:50,800
and they landed on what they thought low

437
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,399
culture was which is i'm not saying it

438
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,000
is low culture i'm saying in their minds

439
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:56,079
that's what happened and then they began

440
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,600
to define it in these ways well how do i

441
00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:59,680
express low culture and they grabbed

442
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,320
parts of their own culture and began to

443
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,959
throw it into the game and that was some

444
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:07,839
low well that was some low blow evil

445
00:15:04,959 --> 00:15:10,399
stuff right that was not great then and

446
00:15:07,839 --> 00:15:12,240
so alignment gave birth this sort of

447
00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:15,360
trying to wrestle with what alignment is

448
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,760
gave birth to this movement of

449
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,160
defining cultures which gave this birth

450
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,079
to this attaching to culture you know

451
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,279
and it just became this cultural

452
00:15:22,079 --> 00:15:27,360
emulation in quite a non-flattering or

453
00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:30,240
even you know ignorantly non-flattering

454
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,959
way and so i think that that that's

455
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,399
where it just alignment took a way a bad

456
00:15:32,959 --> 00:15:35,920
turn in d

457
00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:37,440
um and people are sensitive about that

458
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,279
now i think that's why they're so

459
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,360
sensitive so when we go back to why did

460
00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:43,680
i start saying this right the typically

461
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,759
part i what i think which is the coast

462
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,440
is and i i don't think i think this is

463
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:50,160
born from a good place

464
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:52,240
they're trying to avoid that same uh

465
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,680
that you know that same tropism yeah uh

466
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,199
that sort of generated out of the early

467
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,560
90s or 90s and odds yeah it's it's

468
00:15:57,199 --> 00:16:00,079
obviously it's a shame because i

469
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,639
obviously completely agree that it was

470
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:04,240
that's bad yeah it takes very little

471
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:06,800
critical thinking to be like that

472
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,560
doesn't isn't good

473
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,079
what's happening there but it's a shame

474
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,600
that obviously the

475
00:16:10,079 --> 00:16:13,279
by the sounds of it something that was

476
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,040
very

477
00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:17,120
flat and two-dimensional then took this

478
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,600
kind of weird and awkward turn to the

479
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,199
place we don't want to go and thankfully

480
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,199
driving out of now

481
00:16:21,199 --> 00:16:24,720
i like to think i could be having my own

482
00:16:23,199 --> 00:16:27,040
ignorance here which is quite possible

483
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,680
but i i understand this is where the

484
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:34,399
tide is slowly turning towards

485
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:36,000
a less awkward part of its usage but um

486
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:38,000
it's it's like they've gone backwards

487
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,759
before they've gone we've been able to

488
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,680
go forwards in a way

489
00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:43,120
but in i think you've i've seen you

490
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,800
mention online before in terms of let's

491
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,399
just bring it back to like

492
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,399
mechanical alignment just just for a

493
00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:50,800
second if you

494
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:51,759
hit delete ctrl f find all

495
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,160
delete

496
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:56,079
and just removed any

497
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,160
references to it

498
00:16:56,079 --> 00:17:01,680
is that would that resolve any issues am

499
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,360
i like being way too simplistic here i i

500
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,799
don't i don't think it would i think

501
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,559
that's why it hasn't gone away like it

502
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:07,360
doesn't actually solve the core problem

503
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:08,959
of

504
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:10,559
because there's some utility let's

505
00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:12,319
actually let's not completely there's

506
00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:14,480
some utility in

507
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:16,400
uh in alignment it's minimal but there's

508
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,400
the utility that does for whatever it

509
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,120
exists extent that it exists the utility

510
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,559
is

511
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:25,679
oh i understand this is like a rampaging

512
00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:28,559
arbitrarily violent monster versus this

513
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:31,440
is a uh you know this is a calculating

514
00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:32,960
planning type of monster or or whatever

515
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,480
you know whatever those kind of or it's

516
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,679
just a beast right it's true neutral and

517
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,640
it's just a beast that doesn't have an

518
00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:38,160
alignment

519
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,640
so that's the utility of it and that

520
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,400
that is useful for dm like what

521
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,000
what's the consistency there is a

522
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,919
there's a utility of a consistent

523
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,919
experience in dnd right that everyone's

524
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:50,559
playing the same game i would even say

525
00:17:47,919 --> 00:17:52,720
like one of the big advances in fifth

526
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:54,400
edition is this is the first time we've

527
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,080
ever had these core modules where

528
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,840
everyone is playing

529
00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,400
similar modules right it's like it's

530
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:03,039
like tracking a hobby through tel or

531
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,280
series or of a television show right

532
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:07,039
like this is series one series two

533
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,120
series three rhyming now we're in

534
00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:11,360
rhyming the frost meeting whatever

535
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,880
it's been useful that common experience

536
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:15,120
has been super useful for repo and

537
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,559
alignment has a small bit of utility as

538
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,400
it relates to that

539
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:20,720
it just it just careens out of control

540
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,559
when it comes to world building because

541
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,640
it's not even an inch deep it's it's

542
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:28,720
it's a small veneer

543
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:30,799
of something over over a very deep topic

544
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,039
and if you're if you're unskilled as a

545
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:34,880
dm or you don't know what that means

546
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:36,880
you know you have to really drill down a

547
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,559
lot with your players and and make sure

548
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,520
they don't go off track with it because

549
00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:44,160
i've seen players be like whoa we have

550
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,320
we have gone way off-roading on this

551
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,080
that is not at all what i meant yeah and

552
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,120
we have to call a paw so i've had that a

553
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,600
few times

554
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:53,919
okay okay yeah

555
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,080
i think that so in a discussion we had

556
00:18:53,919 --> 00:18:57,440
on twitter recently around this um

557
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,640
cobalt sages

558
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,919
i'm trying to be good now with the

559
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,679
podcast and actually reference people

560
00:18:59,919 --> 00:19:02,799
i'm talking about

561
00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:04,480
so that's

562
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:05,679
that's it we're like 100 episodes in and

563
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,280
now we're going to do it

564
00:19:05,679 --> 00:19:09,679
starting today um

565
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,760
they they said that it it can still hold

566
00:19:09,679 --> 00:19:13,120
positive informational value which is i

567
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,960
think one reason

568
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:17,760
why we haven't just done a

569
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,880
find all and and delete and it is it you

570
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,360
know

571
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,160
where's the line though i'm perhaps my

572
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,440
own

573
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,559
well not perhaps definitely because of

574
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,200
my own ignorance i'm trying i'm

575
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:29,200
struggling to find the line between

576
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,120
the better implementation of

577
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,640
how can we retain that informational

578
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,320
value

579
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,600
in a way that

580
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,240
is

581
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,440
socially correct and standardized and

582
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,360
effective

583
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,200
maybe that's such a huge and now i've

584
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:45,360
said it out loud i'm like yeah there

585
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,160
isn't don't don't you can't solve that

586
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:47,600
because

587
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,039
many people better than you can't solve

588
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,280
that so

589
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:52,880
yeah in a weird way i'm not i'm sort of

590
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,960
neutral on the topic of deleting it like

591
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,799
i i don't see the utility of deleting it

592
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,799
because it doesn't it does do something

593
00:19:56,799 --> 00:20:01,120
minimal for us it is part of the hop you

594
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:02,880
know it's part of a long chain tradition

595
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,880
and and i don't think it does anything

596
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,559
for us if we delete it i mean it's not

597
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,200
going to mature the conversation

598
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:10,880
it's not going to redefine the monsters

599
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,799
you know it's not going to do anything

600
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,600
concrete except make people feel better

601
00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:15,919
which

602
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,679
i don't want to trivialize you know

603
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:19,120
maybe maybe that does do something i

604
00:20:17,679 --> 00:20:21,120
don't know i

605
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:22,240
i'm an older man so it's harder i don't

606
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,600
feel like it's going to change my

607
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,320
thinking on it i already think it's

608
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,400
worthless um so that's why i it doesn't

609
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,400
matter to me if it's it or not but maybe

610
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,320
maybe it does maybe it's maybe for

611
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,840
people who feel like it's

612
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,039
it targets something that they feel

613
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,720
connected to

614
00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:38,400
uh i don't want to diminish those voices

615
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,200
right if they feel if someone says

616
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,039
listen this makes me feel targeted i

617
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,200
want to take that seriously i want to

618
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:47,679
listen to what they have to say

619
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,280
and i get that um i almost never bring

620
00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:51,120
this up but um

621
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:54,240
they're you know the people talk about

622
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,919
um lgbtq all this other stuff uh i'm

623
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,440
somewhere in that

624
00:20:55,919 --> 00:21:00,880
in that um uh that range i i'm from a

625
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,400
generation that doesn't feel like i need

626
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,120
to explain to people where i where i

627
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,559
fall in that and um so i i've had those

628
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,799
moments where i felt a little like ah

629
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:11,280
this is targeting me you know i felt a

630
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:13,120
little bit like that occasionally um

631
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,480
so yeah i get it

632
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:18,559
yeah i i i did not mean to trivialize

633
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,000
any problem as well but i i i didn't

634
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:21,919
half of this podcast is me just thinking

635
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,840
out loud which if it isn't evident by

636
00:21:21,919 --> 00:21:27,520
this point it very much is

637
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,280
it is now um and yes and half of my

638
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,679
problem-solving process is just rubber

639
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,960
duck programming so just like repeating

640
00:21:31,679 --> 00:21:34,799
the

641
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,080
the problem let me bring up let me toss

642
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:37,679
the topic to you i'd love to ask you a

643
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,880
question do you think

644
00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:42,559
that alignment subverts player like role

645
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,159
playing growth do you think that makes

646
00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:47,440
players static so i i

647
00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:49,120
thank you for asking because i do have a

648
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,960
whole section here on on character

649
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,440
alignment from a from a player's

650
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,799
perspective um

651
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,159
my answer on this would be there's two

652
00:21:54,799 --> 00:22:00,480
ways to approach this with

653
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:02,799
babies first players like i don't know

654
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,400
what a ttrpg is and i'm sitting down and

655
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:06,000
there's this 300 page book i've got a

656
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,320
read through and this is the thing you

657
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,000
dress up right no well maybe if you want

658
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,159
like there's those kind of players and

659
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,159
then there's there's players who have

660
00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:15,760
had a number of characters played in

661
00:22:14,159 --> 00:22:16,559
different games and whatnot and whatnot

662
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,159
so

663
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:20,880
i run a game with both sets of players

664
00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:22,960
in

665
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,880
and i think to to finally get to

666
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,480
answering your question for the for the

667
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,679
new starters like as i said i've got a

668
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,200
guy

669
00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:32,559
he's re-rolling his only second

670
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,720
character 67 sessions in and he got hung

671
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:36,000
up on his background

672
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,360
he's gone through all the way through

673
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,799
character creation he's done all the

674
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:40,640
numbers he's done the standard array

675
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:43,360
he's got a backstory and then he's going

676
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,360
oh now i need to pick a background and

677
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,480
i've said to him don't get too hung up

678
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,640
on it

679
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,320
and i think the same can be said for

680
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,640
alignment you know that you they'll have

681
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,000
a vision players might have a vision of

682
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,720
i want to play a character that does

683
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,200
this or it you know does xyz in abc

684
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,520
situations and then go oh

685
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,200
now i've got to fit them on a 3x3 grid

686
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,280
and is that

687
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,919
what what are the implications of this

688
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,000
and i think that is a slight failing of

689
00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:12,000
the complexity of fifth edition which i

690
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,520
know has been streamlined but

691
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,840
it asks a lot up front a lot of from new

692
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,600
players up front like do you want a long

693
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,280
bow or a short bow

694
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,840
means nothing to me so i'll just pick

695
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,520
one ah well you shooting at disadvantage

696
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,880
more often than you would be otherwise

697
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,520
like oh

698
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,440
screw me i guess uh

699
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,440
in the same way that it can be like

700
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,559
alignment oh well now i'm not locked

701
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,039
into being

702
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:39,039
lawful good but i didn't realize that my

703
00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:41,760
four-party members were going to be

704
00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:44,240
you know chaotic neutral and uh

705
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,919
robin hooding somewhere and i'm stuck

706
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,679
like a stick in the mud which isn't fun

707
00:23:45,919 --> 00:23:48,640
and i never had that vision for my

708
00:23:47,679 --> 00:23:51,919
character

709
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,919
to be the not fun one there because

710
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:55,200
who would

711
00:23:53,919 --> 00:23:56,960
so i think

712
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,039
yes it's the short answer for certainly

713
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,520
for newer players who

714
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:03,279
haven't had the experience of like oh

715
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,880
it doesn't mean very much or hey the

716
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:06,640
four guys i've been playing with don't

717
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,279
care about it so maybe when i roll the

718
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,120
new character i won't care about it

719
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:12,880
no one as you said to repeat what you

720
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,400
said i don't think no one goes out of

721
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,320
their way to say

722
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,720
hang on let me pass this let me pass

723
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,320
this next decision every micro decision

724
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,720
my character's making through this

725
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,880
alignment filter to make sure i'm no one

726
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,279
has the overhead mental capacity to do

727
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,559
that role-playing is hard enough most of

728
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:30,880
the time anyway

729
00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:33,120
let alone another filter in the way so

730
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,080
no most of it is from the gut and this

731
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,480
is you know

732
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:39,120
hopefully this is a legitimate

733
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,320
reaction to the stimulus

734
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,840
so any

735
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,000
any small

736
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,840
piece of grit in that in that role play

737
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,760
wheel that might just be thrown in just

738
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,960
to say but is that lawful good i think

739
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,480
it's not

740
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,000
conducive

741
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,000
because it's just gonna get players to

742
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,440
second guess themselves and the one

743
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,520
thing you don't want

744
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,279
players who as we discussed in our last

745
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,799
episode being vulnerable putting

746
00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:02,159
yourself a piece out there on the table

747
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,840
the last thing you want is for them to

748
00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:05,279
be self-conscious

749
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,480
and then be like oh god what's everyone

750
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:09,360
going to think if i say this thing

751
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:11,039
because i'm not acting lawful good so

752
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:14,320
that is is

753
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:16,640
on one thing is for for newer players

754
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,320
and then as i said for people maybe such

755
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,679
as myself and yourself and other players

756
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,159
i i don't i

757
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:24,159
it's it's a speed bump on the road to

758
00:25:22,159 --> 00:25:24,880
character creation it's something that

759
00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:26,559
you

760
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,480
maybe not even fill in

761
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:29,919
like maybe maybe dnd beyond makes you

762
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,360
fill it in during character creation i'm

763
00:25:29,919 --> 00:25:33,120
not sure off the top of my head but it's

764
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:34,640
if it's got to be filled in you'll fill

765
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,640
it in but then

766
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,039
i can like if you ask me what my my two

767
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,400
main characters are i probably couldn't

768
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:43,120
tell you what their alignments are off

769
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:46,799
the top of my head level

770
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:48,320
class background uh main weapon

771
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:50,240
hit you know hit die

772
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,600
i could tell you i could rattle off easy

773
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,919
peasy

774
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,760
but then alignment knock and

775
00:25:53,919 --> 00:25:57,919
cool cool guys

776
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,450
lawful cool i don't know lawful a bit of

777
00:25:57,919 --> 00:26:01,279
danalow's psyche uh

778
00:25:59,450 --> 00:26:02,799
[Laughter]

779
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:03,679
chaotic petty

780
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:05,679
yeah

781
00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:09,120
so that is my very roundabout way of

782
00:26:05,679 --> 00:26:11,440
saying yes and no

783
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:13,600
yeah yeah i i mean i'm the same mind

784
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,679
it's not clear but i think i think just

785
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,600
thinking about it from that context is

786
00:26:15,679 --> 00:26:19,039
important for dms like what does it do

787
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,799
there's a there's a first order thing it

788
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:21,840
does for me is the dm everything else

789
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:24,400
aside

790
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,559
this is a nice check when people are

791
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,320
creating new characters if i've got five

792
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:30,880
players and four of them are lawful good

793
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,159
and one's chaotic evil we have to have a

794
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,840
talk right

795
00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:35,200
something's off right what does this

796
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,600
mean how are they gonna express things

797
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:41,120
so there's some utility for me to see my

798
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,480
players do that um as a player i find my

799
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,000
own answer is i

800
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,000
sometimes it really does get in the way

801
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,320
of character growth like i what if i

802
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,240
want to play a lawful good paladin

803
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,240
and always like the hero's journey right

804
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,840
that's one of the uh major arcs that

805
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,000
always talks about dnd there's a

806
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,279
disillusionment phase right where the

807
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,679
the structures that they knew their

808
00:26:57,279 --> 00:27:01,679
betrayal phase they feel betrayed by

809
00:26:59,679 --> 00:27:03,520
like when luke finds out that vader was

810
00:27:01,679 --> 00:27:05,679
his dad and he feels betrayed like

811
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,520
there's this moment of self-questioning

812
00:27:05,679 --> 00:27:09,360
that um maybe i'm not lawful good

813
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,200
anymore maybe i'm you know chaotic good

814
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:12,799
or neutral good or maybe law doesn't so

815
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,880
there's there is an implication of

816
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,240
changing alignments that does not exist

817
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,640
in fifth edition

818
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,600
however in early editions in first

819
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,440
edition

820
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,760
uh i'm not saying this was good but it

821
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,840
did change sometimes game masters would

822
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,679
even change somebody's alignment it's

823
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,799
like nope that's an evil thing you are

824
00:27:27,679 --> 00:27:30,559
now

825
00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:32,080
neutral evil or whatever

826
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:34,640
i was never a fan of that but it did

827
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,159
happen and and as a dm and fifth edition

828
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,480
of lots of different players i can see

829
00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:40,880
why because i people

830
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,640
usually call themselves good but players

831
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,760
are usually like chaotic petty like i

832
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:48,559
was joking earlier like they they feel

833
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,720
d is a bit of a power fantasy so they

834
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,960
they carry over like someone who slights

835
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,360
them any small slight becomes a big deal

836
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,520
and notoriously players burn down every

837
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:59,760
town they go to because somebody looked

838
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,520
at them wrong those are not good actions

839
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,360
right

840
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,679
you know so so

841
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:07,520
the the earliest editions have dealt

842
00:28:05,679 --> 00:28:09,120
with that by straight up changing it and

843
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,880
we don't do that now which is odd i

844
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,399
don't think we do that as well now so

845
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,240
was it was that was that literally in

846
00:28:12,399 --> 00:28:16,399
the book for like yeah the dm had the

847
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,919
power to literally you know effectively

848
00:28:16,399 --> 00:28:19,520
go over over their shoulder and rub it

849
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:21,760
out on their sheet and then rewrite

850
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,679
something in i'd have to see i don't

851
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,840
actually know if it was ever said i

852
00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:28,320
think it was like my memory of it is

853
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,080
that it was but i i don't actually know

854
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,080
that that's true that to be fair that

855
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,679
rings a bell with other um people who've

856
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,679
had experience and those

857
00:28:33,679 --> 00:28:37,279
uh editions have said something like if

858
00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:39,039
you acted in a certain way the dm would

859
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:40,720
say okay well now you're this which

860
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:41,600
means which and here's the important

861
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,240
thing

862
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,880
which means that you've lost xyz and

863
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,000
gained abc because back then there was a

864
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,080
lot more

865
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,760
tied in yeah you're not a paladin yeah

866
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,240
yeah right

867
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,080
like you can't if you said that to any

868
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,960
well someone like me any just straight

869
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,240
fifth edition player if like you acted

870
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,320
out you know your character was in their

871
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,679
rage or you know was emotional and they

872
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,279
did something that was not within

873
00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:06,559
alignment to be like oh you're not that

874
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:08,320
class anymore

875
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:10,480
you'd be like what

876
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,240
yeah

877
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,320
for a good reason that would be like

878
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,760
wait a minute because i mean i think

879
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,760
rightfully so there's a great advantage

880
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,000
but now we understand what that really

881
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,120
means which is you need to if it's that

882
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,120
bad

883
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,200
you need to pause the game and talk

884
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,880
right and trying to try to handle

885
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,080
because that's almost always an out of

886
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,720
character thing right so that's pausing

887
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,880
it is of course what we would do now

888
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:38,399
but back then let's face it most of us

889
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,840
are teenagers and uh and and hi

890
00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:41,679
that was that was

891
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,559
you know unfortunately common yeah in

892
00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:47,360
the 80s and um so we weren't you can't

893
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:48,720
expect teenagers to act like adults

894
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,200
can you expect it but you're going to be

895
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,200
disappointed

896
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:57,959
yes yeah

897
00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:57,959
[Music]

898
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,679
[Music]

899
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,360
i think because one of my notes here

900
00:30:05,679 --> 00:30:09,679
funny enough it's very pertinent right

901
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,960
now i think i know your answer but i was

902
00:30:09,679 --> 00:30:13,600
gonna say is

903
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,919
do we think it's the dm's job to

904
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,240
enforce alignment now i

905
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:20,799
well actually i won't leave the witness

906
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,320
yeah i do actually i in force no no i

907
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:25,200
don't think in force i don't think it's

908
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:28,000
the dm's job to enforce anything but i

909
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,440
do think we're guides right like the

910
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,039
and and there's lots of legitimate

911
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,799
reasons for that people do things and

912
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:35,760
it's a blind spot for them or is it

913
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:38,320
blind spot for the dm or so it's a great

914
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,679
it is a great thing and for most games

915
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,919
to sit down and go

916
00:30:39,679 --> 00:30:43,520
after the game or between sessions say

917
00:30:41,919 --> 00:30:45,360
you know this one thing that happened i

918
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,120
i was a little thrown by that i didn't

919
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,279
quite get what was going on there this

920
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,039
is this is what i saw when this happened

921
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:52,880
what we what how did you see it what

922
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:55,679
happened there and it's a great way to

923
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,360
lead into a discussion um enforce

924
00:30:55,679 --> 00:31:00,080
absolutely not i don't think there's any

925
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,679
utility to enforcing rules

926
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,720
you know alignment changes i will say i

927
00:31:01,679 --> 00:31:05,279
think that

928
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,440
that's a cover which is another toxic

929
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:09,919
part about alignment discussions it's a

930
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,200
cover for something else if you feel the

931
00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:15,279
need to have to change a player behavior

932
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,279
you're blaming alignment for probably

933
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:19,919
what is like a playstyle fit probably

934
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:22,960
yes yeah i'd say 90 of the cases this is

935
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:25,039
a playstyle fit problem or just a genre

936
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,720
of the game or something like that so to

937
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:28,559
sit down and talk with them about like

938
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,159
how that fits to the game how it impacts

939
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:31,679
the flow of things how it fits with the

940
00:31:30,159 --> 00:31:33,840
world view

941
00:31:31,679 --> 00:31:35,760
that's a greater that's all within the

942
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,679
purview of the dm

943
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,320
understanding it's a discussion not a

944
00:31:37,679 --> 00:31:42,000
not a declaration indeed yeah yeah so

945
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,480
that that that's the that's what it

946
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,240
really is and so yet of many many things

947
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,519
that the lineman got in the way of

948
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,360
alignment was

949
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:50,960
used as a crutch

950
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,519
for what should have been a more mature

951
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,360
discussion that i think is really

952
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,399
hitting the nail on that on the head

953
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,559
there

954
00:31:56,399 --> 00:31:59,360
i've played in games before where the dm

955
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:00,799
is

956
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,080
you know fifth edition again where the

957
00:32:00,799 --> 00:32:03,440
dm is gone

958
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,679
the player said the character's gonna do

959
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,399
something and the player's gone

960
00:32:05,679 --> 00:32:09,840
but what does what's your alignment say

961
00:32:08,399 --> 00:32:11,600
you know like a parent telling off their

962
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,720
child do you really think that your

963
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,960
character would do that kiss disk like

964
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,799
that's as far as it's ever got which

965
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,159
again is still a bit like

966
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:23,120
i'm not sure where i sit with that is

967
00:32:20,159 --> 00:32:24,960
that either just like the softest way to

968
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,440
to have that touch or is that

969
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,120
overstepping from a dm i'm not

970
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,559
i'm not sure

971
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,399
yeah it's just a crutch you don't want

972
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:33,600
to have a like uh

973
00:32:32,399 --> 00:32:35,440
i don't know a discussion about like

974
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,039
that kind of feels creepy you know some

975
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,760
i've had players do that

976
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:41,360
i won't say what but somebody uh i had a

977
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,200
player you could tell the player was

978
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,960
frustrated not the character you could

979
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,480
tell the player was frustrated as this

980
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,720
npc who wouldn't ask to answer their

981
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,720
questions and they started doing some

982
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,320
some pretty heinous stuff to them

983
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,399
and they were like chaotic good or

984
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,799
something like that and i didn't call an

985
00:32:54,399 --> 00:32:58,799
alignment halt i straight up said

986
00:32:56,799 --> 00:33:01,679
this is kind of wigging me out

987
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:03,120
we need to stop this yeah i mean and and

988
00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:05,120
granted i'm older so i have no problem

989
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,000
speaking my mind but

990
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,760
it just creeped me out bluntly

991
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,679
and that's that's uh

992
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,679
that's a super important discussion hat

993
00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:15,679
to have if someone comes at you with an

994
00:33:13,679 --> 00:33:17,360
evil alignment you probably need to talk

995
00:33:15,679 --> 00:33:19,679
about well what does evil mean to you

996
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,600
yeah yeah after the fact is a difficult

997
00:33:19,679 --> 00:33:22,799
time to have that discussion for sure

998
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,840
and that's thank you for reminding me

999
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:25,039
because that's one what i wanted to

1000
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,559
mention earlier on when you said you

1001
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:28,080
know maybe you've got one new character

1002
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:29,760
who's evil and the rest of the new

1003
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,640
characters are good how does that fit in

1004
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,080
and on paper yeah like absolutely that's

1005
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,600
the trigger for that discussion like you

1006
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,559
said to be let me sit down and find out

1007
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,000
because

1008
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:40,640
you might actually have that chat with

1009
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,880
them and they're not in their head what

1010
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,320
they think is evil it's actually like

1011
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,440
not that bad or you know what i mean

1012
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,880
like

1013
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,120
they just put that because it felt right

1014
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,039
or it made sense or their definition or

1015
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,880
their you know criteria for what makes

1016
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:54,399
something evil is is a lot less so you

1017
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,399
go oh actually that'll be fine that's

1018
00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:58,000
just you're just playing a rogue like

1019
00:33:56,399 --> 00:33:59,120
here

1020
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,080
you'll probably get away with that i

1021
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,440
don't think the rest of the characters

1022
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,120
are going to be that mad but you know

1023
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,559
conversely they could always be like i'm

1024
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,399
going to kill every innocent civilian

1025
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:08,320
and then that's when you would right

1026
00:34:06,399 --> 00:34:09,919
have that discussion yeah they

1027
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,200
that's actually the kill against

1028
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:12,720
innocent people are not innocent they're

1029
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,520
just killing in general

1030
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:17,119
that's a huge like i don't play uh you

1031
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:20,480
have to you have to level set the one

1032
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:22,159
important thing for all dms is to level

1033
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,839
set in the world what's what's kind of

1034
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,839
inbounds out of bounds what's typical

1035
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:28,159
behavior what's atypical behavior that's

1036
00:34:25,839 --> 00:34:30,720
an important like you i that's why i

1037
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:33,520
love to spend the uh like level one to

1038
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:35,119
three that's what i do i establi like

1039
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,639
levels one to three adventures are

1040
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:39,119
establishment adventures what does the

1041
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,960
world think of certain things like

1042
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:43,119
they're afraid of adventures because

1043
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,839
they tend to get like very sensitive

1044
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:47,679
they freak out and kill people um they

1045
00:34:45,839 --> 00:34:49,280
the that but most people in the world

1046
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:50,720
don't kill people that they have a

1047
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,440
disagreement with they might get in a

1048
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:55,119
fight but it just ends with like there

1049
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,720
you've learned something now while

1050
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:58,640
someone you know holding their face or

1051
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:00,079
their eye that people don't generally

1052
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,359
cut each other's throat at the end of

1053
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:03,760
combat

1054
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:05,440
and i try to like establish those things

1055
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,800
like even goblins don't do it because

1056
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,560
they don't care

1057
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,000
like they they just don't care enough to

1058
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:14,160
do it and uh and so i i it's hard to get

1059
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,960
players though who are used to

1060
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,119
go down means they die you know and and

1061
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,960
they i i would love to see a game where

1062
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:22,960
players were much more torn by that like

1063
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,119
they defeated their enemies maybe a good

1064
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,520
character went down the wounds of their

1065
00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:29,280
of the people down on the ground and i i

1066
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,200
they don't know this but i tend to have

1067
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,079
the world respond to that if the players

1068
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,000
are like i use the term drooling slope

1069
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:37,920
four-headed monsters right they're just

1070
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,280
they're just murderous yes if they're

1071
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,440
murderers the world tends to get

1072
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,800
murderous right um although i try early

1073
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,720
to make sure that the world isn't that

1074
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,320
way although i shouldn't do that this is

1075
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,160
one of the things like i subvert myself

1076
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,839
as a dm because that has this linear

1077
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,000
progression that it gets to a point that

1078
00:35:49,839 --> 00:35:54,000
i just lose interest in the game i just

1079
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,400
i'm not interested in these like a

1080
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,839
creepy power fantasy like power

1081
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,599
fantasy's okay everybody has a power of

1082
00:35:57,839 --> 00:36:01,200
fantasy about d and d but it starts to

1083
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:03,200
get creepy after a certain point for me

1084
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,480
and i'm like i just i'm not looking

1085
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,320
forward to this game

1086
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,839
and so i do think that that dm

1087
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,160
establishing what the midpoint of the

1088
00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:12,800
world is super important to give a lot

1089
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,839
of examples of how this works

1090
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,599
and and

1091
00:36:13,839 --> 00:36:17,040
i think my players find this challenging

1092
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:19,119
because they feel like i'm sending them

1093
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:22,160
mixed messages which i i wish i wouldn't

1094
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:24,640
do but i just want to like i to me being

1095
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:27,280
good isn't about being good in a in a

1096
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,359
perfect situation it's about being good

1097
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,720
in a convoluted situation like choosing

1098
00:36:29,359 --> 00:36:32,320
the good path

1099
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,960
you know when there are conflicting

1100
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,599
stories or it's not quite as clear like

1101
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,119
that's that's good to me and so i throw

1102
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:40,400
those opportunities role-playing

1103
00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:42,960
opportunities of players

1104
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,119
but some people just want you know i'm

1105
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,800
good and everybody i meet who's like

1106
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:49,200
downtrodden is good

1107
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,480
and you know that that's not the world i

1108
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,599
run so yeah yeah i was thinking earlier

1109
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,320
on about

1110
00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:58,720
as i said that like the dm

1111
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,079
enforcing or suggesting courses of

1112
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:02,079
actions for players based on their

1113
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:03,680
alignments and

1114
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:05,760
yeah i think as you said like

1115
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,920
you could route a lot of those kind of

1116
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,599
issues with that here's here's this you

1117
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,200
almost need as you said in that in those

1118
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:13,440
levels one two three you need that i

1119
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,880
think it's a really good idea to

1120
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,320
a lot of the focus on levels one two

1121
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,160
three is learning your characters

1122
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,160
learning what a spell slot is learning

1123
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,160
how to level up learning what a role to

1124
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,079
hit is with advantage but i think

1125
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,800
equally maybe even more so important for

1126
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:29,440
longer campaigns is that if you beat up

1127
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,150
this guard the rest of the guards are

1128
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,800
gonna be really annoyed with you

1129
00:37:31,150 --> 00:37:35,520
[Laughter]

1130
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,839
like don't don't hurt the local police

1131
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,880
because they will be very upset with you

1132
00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:41,440
um

1133
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,320
you need to you know kind of set those

1134
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,480
tones out and i think that's where

1135
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,320
i've learned you know in my in my

1136
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,680
campaign that

1137
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,960
expectation setting uh

1138
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,160
which could be you could level that and

1139
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,079
everything somebody like to use it as a

1140
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,839
term but what i mean is like

1141
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:58,800
my players were in a city

1142
00:37:57,839 --> 00:38:00,480
i don't know whether this is a video

1143
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,400
game trope or just a fader in my part

1144
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,720
probably 50 50 to be honest but they

1145
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,359
were they got mugged they got jumped

1146
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:09,040
because they were flashing gold again i

1147
00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:11,680
was like you're in a dive bar and you're

1148
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,440
throwing around like gold which is like

1149
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,359
a lot

1150
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,880
like i want to be your friend yeah i was

1151
00:38:15,359 --> 00:38:20,480
like you're like people are looking at

1152
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,680
you eyeing like dribbling almost you

1153
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,720
know these are the kind of people that

1154
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,320
are spending a copper on 90 water ale

1155
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:27,440
like they're gonna they're gonna want

1156
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,200
that gold

1157
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,680
so when they got jumped

1158
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,880
and they they fought off the muggers to

1159
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,560
the death

1160
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,560
essentially so when the local law

1161
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,000
enforcement turned up all the play

1162
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,359
characters scarpered

1163
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,520
and

1164
00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:43,599
you know i've repeated them in in game

1165
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,800
and out of game i was like

1166
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:49,359
you fled from the scene of a crime bad

1167
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,800
bad booboo number one number two you

1168
00:38:49,359 --> 00:38:52,000
didn't leave them in a particularly

1169
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,359
pretty state

1170
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,040
number three there were a buttload of

1171
00:38:53,359 --> 00:38:56,960
witnesses like you this is the middle of

1172
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,960
the day like you weren't one of you

1173
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,119
turned into like a tiger which is not

1174
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,800
very subtle so

1175
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:05,359
so there's a lot of stuff stacking up

1176
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,560
against you here and it's very easy i

1177
00:39:05,359 --> 00:39:08,640
don't want to rag on my players too much

1178
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,040
because i know when you're in

1179
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,560
the zone at the table it's just ah i

1180
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,920
don't know roll dice and i'm having fun

1181
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,359
and la la

1182
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,480
that's i've done that everybody's done

1183
00:39:15,359 --> 00:39:18,480
that that's yeah they think it's going

1184
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,560
to be something else right in their mind

1185
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,800
it's going to be something else and it

1186
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,359
just turned out oh i i

1187
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,119
i underestimated this situation i'm

1188
00:39:25,359 --> 00:39:29,920
wildly off this is just this is just the

1189
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:31,280
dm giving us some some some goons to

1190
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,359
fight in in an alleyway just we have

1191
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,119
some combat this session i'm like kind

1192
00:39:33,359 --> 00:39:36,800
of yes because we haven't had combat for

1193
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:38,480
a while but also

1194
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,720
you're still in the world i haven't

1195
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,240
taken you out into vr training to have

1196
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,520
this combat just for a bit of fun to

1197
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:44,240
then bring us back in the real world

1198
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,880
like

1199
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,000
it still has to make sense so

1200
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,960
as i said a couple of them are rolling

1201
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,720
new characters now and i think

1202
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,640
after all these sessions and also as

1203
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,160
i've helped i've said like we'll have to

1204
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,440
make these new characters together which

1205
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,040
is something i probably didn't do enough

1206
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,480
of when they first started

1207
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,400
was to be like maybe you want to think

1208
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,160
about what's happened over the last 60

1209
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,240
sessions and maybe you might want to

1210
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,000
tailor your new characters to be

1211
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:09,599
maybe a certain disposition or a certain

1212
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,079
way and respond to situations in a

1213
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:14,319
certain way just because

1214
00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:15,760
frankly it will make your lives easier

1215
00:40:14,319 --> 00:40:18,079
you'll be able to travel in the city

1216
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,160
streets in daytime again as the start of

1217
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:22,160
a tent yeah i have a hard time with that

1218
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,560
though i mean once we've got blown past

1219
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,720
something especially if the

1220
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,319
the core problem is really

1221
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:31,040
a misalignment about the kind of game

1222
00:40:28,319 --> 00:40:33,119
the players want and the dm wants like i

1223
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,599
uh i had one situation where i was

1224
00:40:33,119 --> 00:40:36,800
running uh lost minds of fan delver

1225
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:38,640
and um

1226
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,079
very early in the game the palette they

1227
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,680
their their first fight with some of the

1228
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:43,440
red brand ruffians and they were bullies

1229
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,240
they insulted them but these players

1230
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,440
were

1231
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:49,520
way triggered by an npc saying something

1232
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,920
nasty to their their characters like

1233
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,400
i was a little shocked at how much it

1234
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,839
affected the player oh wow and yeah i

1235
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,599
was like that's creeping me out a little

1236
00:40:55,839 --> 00:40:59,200
bit and it was a new group it was so it

1237
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,800
was a new group to me we didn't know

1238
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,400
each other very well

1239
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,400
but it wasn't extreme what the what the

1240
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,599
npc said it was just like i don't know

1241
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,680
something

1242
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:10,400
uh and so at the end of the fight they

1243
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,400
beat them and the the paladin drags this

1244
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,359
red brand to the because it was in a bar

1245
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:17,200
in the middle of uh fandolin drags the

1246
00:41:15,359 --> 00:41:20,000
the red one of the ruffians who survives

1247
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,800
to the center of town douses him in lamp

1248
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,079
oil

1249
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,480
pulled the torch and he's like i'm gonna

1250
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:26,800
light you on fire and and the the entire

1251
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,880
town is like whoa whoa wait a minute

1252
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,359
wait hold on what's happening like

1253
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,560
everybody's freaking out around him he

1254
00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:34,000
the player

1255
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,960
couldn't understand what was happening

1256
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,960
like why

1257
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,800
i'm being a guy from the movies why like

1258
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,640
he just couldn't understand

1259
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,000
and i was like describing everybody

1260
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,240
freaking out

1261
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,680
and um we even had a talk after well you

1262
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:47,119
know this is not how the world runs

1263
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,920
people don't generally light somebody on

1264
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:52,480
fire in the middle of town square that

1265
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,800
makes people feel very uncomfortable

1266
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,800
and um

1267
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,760
such a nice political like that tends to

1268
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,960
make people uncomfortable yet to say the

1269
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,880
least

1270
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,599
yeah well if i saw that happening out my

1271
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,839
window i'd be very uncomfortable i would

1272
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:09,760
be haunted by that i yeah

1273
00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:10,960
i'm a veteran so there's some i tend to

1274
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,280
think about different violence

1275
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,200
differently so the um

1276
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,280
so anyway we but but that game ended up

1277
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,960
falling apart because the player i gave

1278
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,560
him an out like that's a when these

1279
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,319
things happen you need to give the

1280
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,839
players a way back yeah and that's

1281
00:42:22,319 --> 00:42:26,240
sometimes difficult that they've really

1282
00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:27,440
blown out the the expectations but i

1283
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,880
tried to say okay

1284
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,000
i think people just don't know what to

1285
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,000
make of you but they're a little

1286
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,160
frightened of you right now so you

1287
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,599
probably need to spend some time earning

1288
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,920
some good will with them and it'll

1289
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:40,319
probably be fine um and they're like oh

1290
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,079
yeah yeah okay but when it

1291
00:42:40,319 --> 00:42:43,920
they were of the play style where they

1292
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:45,119
like went and did one nice thing for

1293
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,560
somebody

1294
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:48,800
and and they were upset that it didn't

1295
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,160
like magically transform the entire town

1296
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,359
why haven't you given me all your life

1297
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:55,520
savings i killed that rat for you here

1298
00:42:53,359 --> 00:42:58,480
i mean it's not even on that one that

1299
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,480
happens a lot in d d and i um you know

1300
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,079
sometimes i try to give pride provide

1301
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,839
examples to players of how this is not

1302
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,599
working out for the hopefully that

1303
00:43:03,839 --> 00:43:07,839
they'll get they'll get what i'm trying

1304
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:10,880
to lay down and a whole different dragon

1305
00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:12,640
of spire peak so still in fandolin

1306
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,560
the player characters end up guilting

1307
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,920
the entire town until like well you

1308
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,319
should provide me with some fighters to

1309
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,000
fight this dragon because i you know

1310
00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:21,440
we're we're here fighting for you and

1311
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,400
you're doing nothing and they're like

1312
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,760
okay

1313
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,440
we'll send some of our you know

1314
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,319
able-bodied people along with you and

1315
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,280
they several through several successive

1316
00:43:28,319 --> 00:43:31,280
fights

1317
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,760
ended up every able-bodied person in

1318
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,160
finland gets killed

1319
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,000
never registered with the players never

1320
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,839
and i as i go and this is where i'm

1321
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,280
getting into like i'm sort of losing

1322
00:43:39,839 --> 00:43:42,880
interest here

1323
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,560
i played that campaign now but by the

1324
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,359
time i was done i was just like i'm

1325
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:49,040
sorry for this game to be over yeah yeah

1326
00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:50,560
it's it's that i love how we're talking

1327
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,920
about alignment and a we've talked about

1328
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,040
misalignment you dropped misalignment

1329
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,280
earlier on though so i wonder if he's

1330
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,280
picked up on how he's definitely brought

1331
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,960
in the uh the topic

1332
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,319
in that sentence um

1333
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,119
between

1334
00:44:00,319 --> 00:44:04,720
players and dms and also that that

1335
00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:06,800
struggle between

1336
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:08,319
like i've read it and said it myself 100

1337
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,680
times like the player characters the

1338
00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:11,200
main characters they are the

1339
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,640
quote-unquote heroes or whatever term

1340
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,319
you want to use of

1341
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,560
the game right the world

1342
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:18,560
doesn't revolve around them but

1343
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,319
that's where the camera is on every week

1344
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,480
right so

1345
00:44:20,319 --> 00:44:23,119
so like they they are the focus but then

1346
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,520
in

1347
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:27,760
on the other side of the same coin

1348
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,599
if you hurt the town's guard you're

1349
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,119
going to get a reputation as somebody

1350
00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:35,119
who hurts the people that are trying to

1351
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:37,920
protect 90 of the population like it's

1352
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:39,440
that that struggle there between no we

1353
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,240
should you know people are the movie

1354
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,359
stars essentially sometimes but also

1355
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,359
they have

1356
00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:47,200
to have expectations about what's going

1357
00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:49,440
to happen if they act in a certain way

1358
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,480
uh based on the the context and that

1359
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,240
that is

1360
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,960
that is where the nuances and that is

1361
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:55,760
where the misalignment cracks form and

1362
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,200
then

1363
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,720
widen open into pitfalls that where

1364
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,920
people fall in and go i'm not looking

1365
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:04,400
forward to this game anymore because i

1366
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,680
found myself down this alignment

1367
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,760
misalignment

1368
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,280
crevice that

1369
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,079
got two people climbing up two different

1370
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,680
sides yep and something that drastically

1371
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:16,240
different in fifth edition versus

1372
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,240
earlier editions is the official modules

1373
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:20,560
and really even the player dm's guild

1374
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:22,560
modules they assume a point of view on

1375
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,640
who the players are like especially the

1376
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,800
official modules assume

1377
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:29,200
you're here to be heroes there's just

1378
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,200
some of them are unabashedly that way

1379
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,920
like a rhyming the frost maiden just

1380
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,079
assumes you're here to be a hero

1381
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,520
so that creates this huge problem if the

1382
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:39,680
player doesn't want to and in earlier

1383
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,760
editions it wasn't assumed that it was

1384
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,800
there was space for evil characters in

1385
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,240
the world

1386
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,760
i never really enjoyed that kind of play

1387
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:47,280
but there was there's space for evil

1388
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,119
characters in the world or greed

1389
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,880
motivations or whatever

1390
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:54,240
so that creates a that creates a huge

1391
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:56,480
problem in in modern sort of d

1392
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:58,240
if alignments are

1393
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,319
assumed to be good or assumed to be

1394
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,920
heroic that creates two problems one it

1395
00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:04,160
may not align with players what they

1396
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,400
want to do but two

1397
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,640
this is and this is a modern phenomenon

1398
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,920
it creates a sense that anything the

1399
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,680
players do is automatically heroic

1400
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,079
because they're the heroes

1401
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,920
and that's that when you if you if you

1402
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:19,440
follow that line of logic that gets

1403
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,520
creeped like i had to kill this village

1404
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,880
it's like a very anakin skywalker you

1405
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,359
know i had to kill the sand people

1406
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,760
because they're evil moment like oh so

1407
00:46:25,359 --> 00:46:29,200
darth vader is the hero here

1408
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,040
topsy-turvy world that we found

1409
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,079
ourselves in yeah

1410
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,000
yeah so

1411
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:35,359
i you know i

1412
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,920
yeah i don't know how to think about

1413
00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:39,200
that i think that that that

1414
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,119
actually to me

1415
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,880
that assumption that players are always

1416
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:44,000
heroic and the dms have to make it

1417
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,400
heroic

1418
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,319
i think that's actually creepier to me

1419
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,079
in a small way and that's not a big deal

1420
00:46:48,319 --> 00:46:52,480
for me but in a small way that's

1421
00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:54,400
creepier to me now than early

1422
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,560
concepts of alignment where it was much

1423
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,240
more loosely defined right that this

1424
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,560
desperate need for players to always be

1425
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:02,319
seen heroic as heroic rather than

1426
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,000
earning it rather than you should earn

1427
00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:05,920
your heroism

1428
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,920
that that seems a little creepy to me in

1429
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,760
in sort of modern expressions of dnd

1430
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,960
yeah now i'm i can see how it happens

1431
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,880
though because i

1432
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,240
despite all my stuff being homebrew i

1433
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,119
very much

1434
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,720
had

1435
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:18,800
inadvertently like at the back of my

1436
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:20,480
mind assumed the player you know the

1437
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,000
player characters would be heroic

1438
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,240
because everything i planned before we

1439
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,559
started playing was based on that

1440
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:28,800
assumption and so i've had to

1441
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:30,640
change the way i do my planning

1442
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,000
based on well actually they might take

1443
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:35,599
it in this direction what happens if

1444
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:37,280
they take it in that direction because

1445
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:38,800
you know of that presump it was a

1446
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,200
presumption essentially that was that

1447
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:44,000
was wrong um and that's fine

1448
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:46,240
of course uh as long as everybody is

1449
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,920
to repeat ourselves you know aligned and

1450
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,680
on board and comfortable and happy and

1451
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,040
all the other kind of stuff and yeah one

1452
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,640
thing i wanted to add earlier on i

1453
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,760
forgot to bring in

1454
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,359
what we're talking about you know maybe

1455
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,040
you've got a mixed party and you've got

1456
00:47:55,359 --> 00:47:59,280
four good guys and one bad guy i hate

1457
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:01,359
again i don't wanna what's the word to

1458
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,880
trivialize or to distill it down to good

1459
00:48:01,359 --> 00:48:04,720
good guys and bad guys but for the sake

1460
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,880
of argument let's assume give me the

1461
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:08,800
benefit of the doubt and

1462
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,319
one major reason is not because that bad

1463
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,880
guy's going to piss you know everybody

1464
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:14,880
off but also because that player

1465
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,200
might not that they're not going to have

1466
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,400
fun and it's the job well the job of

1467
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,319
everybody at the table to make sure

1468
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,599
everybody's having fun obviously the dm

1469
00:48:20,319 --> 00:48:22,880
knows that

1470
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:24,160
a bit more than everybody else so

1471
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,480
they're in a bit more of a position of

1472
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,319
power to be able to help that right so

1473
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,480
it's it's that that's super important to

1474
00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:32,079
me so most of my feedback to my players

1475
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,119
when they're thinking of i want to be

1476
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:36,720
like this or this is my background or

1477
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:39,280
you know he's one of my other characters

1478
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:42,079
built in a rogue assassin subclass he's

1479
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,920
from a you know clandestine organization

1480
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:45,920
of hitmen essentially and i was like

1481
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,720
that's fine and that's super cool

1482
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,480
but

1483
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,720
just so you're aware that

1484
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,240
your job is to kill people and you might

1485
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:54,960
be traveling with others that might not

1486
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:57,200
look kindly on that so

1487
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,400
you know you you as a player might not

1488
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,920
have fun

1489
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,319
as much fun as you might be thinking you

1490
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:04,720
will do you will be i'm a cool hitman

1491
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:06,800
assassin yeah great but the game isn't

1492
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:10,000
hitman so like

1493
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,599
there's that's right nameless npcs yeah

1494
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,160
yeah yeah yeah sure being hitman

1495
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:16,160
assassin is great in the game hitman

1496
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,319
but not in in this world that we we

1497
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,079
happen to be building together so it's

1498
00:49:18,319 --> 00:49:21,839
that is number one priority for me so

1499
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:23,359
though sometimes it feels like i can

1500
00:49:21,839 --> 00:49:25,119
come off and being like are you sure you

1501
00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:26,400
want to be an evil character

1502
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:27,599
but it's because the next part of that

1503
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,880
sentence is

1504
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:30,880
because i want you to have as much fun

1505
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,400
as possible and you might not have that

1506
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,800
based on

1507
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,800
the context you're about to go into yeah

1508
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,599
yeah there's a i this is not a great

1509
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:41,280
trait for me as a dm because i

1510
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:42,079
cause that dm's have to have fun too

1511
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,319
right

1512
00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:47,200
and part of the fun for me is like okay

1513
00:49:44,319 --> 00:49:48,960
how far does this go right there's a

1514
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,040
there's a i love testing boundaries with

1515
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,720
players to see what they're like how far

1516
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,800
does your character take good or how far

1517
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:56,400
they take evil so when someone comes out

1518
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,960
i'm an evil assassin i've run into like

1519
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,280
progressively like the businessman the

1520
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:04,160
merchant who just seems to be in the way

1521
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,599
the family man and it gets to be like

1522
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,680
there's a point past which where i'm

1523
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:09,119
like nah i'm not interested now

1524
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,960
for the play and the player goes there

1525
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:13,200
it's weird and maybe i've muddied the

1526
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,640
waters too much um

1527
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,680
yeah so maybe that's not a great trait

1528
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:20,319
for me as a dm but i just i like tested

1529
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,480
like okay what does this mean to you as

1530
00:50:20,319 --> 00:50:23,760
a character yeah what does it mean to be

1531
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,079
good like what are you willing to

1532
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:28,160
sacrifice what are you willing to put

1533
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:29,760
aside to do this what are you willing to

1534
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,839
ignore what are you willing to not

1535
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:34,480
ignore those that's that's the core of

1536
00:50:31,839 --> 00:50:37,040
what's interesting to me as a dm

1537
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:39,040
so for players who just want

1538
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,680
uh set piece after set piece after set

1539
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:44,400
piece that's sometimes not

1540
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:47,200
so terribly fun for them but uh yeah

1541
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:49,760
that's where i am at the dm no no i like

1542
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,760
that i'm i'm the same i my my point is

1543
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,559
if people are gonna put

1544
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,960
you know

1545
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:57,119
are gonna be so bold as to put a strong

1546
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,839
stance on there i am a look you know i

1547
00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:01,760
am this lawful good and my righteous

1548
00:50:59,839 --> 00:51:04,319
justice to those who have

1549
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,920
you know broken the law then i very much

1550
00:51:04,319 --> 00:51:07,680
like to be like all right put your money

1551
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:10,160
where your mouth is then and we're gonna

1552
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,680
define together what it means to break

1553
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,200
the law what if it's you know and you

1554
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,200
build all the way up to like the aladdin

1555
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,119
street urchin who's who's just swiped

1556
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,520
banana off the stand just to feed

1557
00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:22,800
himself for the day are you gonna

1558
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:25,200
77 smite him out of existence like

1559
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,280
is that is it weird

1560
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,640
boom right is that that's that is you

1561
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,400
know

1562
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,200
having those interesting discussions is

1563
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,800
what builds character both you know i

1564
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,599
think of the player and the characters

1565
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,880
and i

1566
00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:38,800
have

1567
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,880
done similar things to my players to be

1568
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,559
like okay you've had your bits where

1569
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:46,079
you've ran away and

1570
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:48,000
murdered street criminals okay fine let

1571
00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:49,760
me try and think of

1572
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,160
moral quandary situations that will get

1573
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,000
you to kind of contemplate where you

1574
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,240
really sit on the grand scheme of things

1575
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,480
so we you know should we do that but

1576
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:59,920
then are we not any better than those

1577
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,040
people or should we not do this and

1578
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:05,040
maybe try and start to think about the

1579
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,640
you know the consequences of our actions

1580
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,000
i think that those are

1581
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,400
again to me interesting to to think

1582
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,480
about and to make up and so i can laugh

1583
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,920
machiavellianly uh while i'm planning

1584
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,280
and think ah they're gonna have so much

1585
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,119
difficulty with the

1586
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,400
you know internal conflict is the heart

1587
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:20,160
of narrative right

1588
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,000
action is a great

1589
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,160
excitement piece but the heart of

1590
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,359
narrative is internal conflict right so

1591
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:29,040
that that's and i i i even love

1592
00:52:27,359 --> 00:52:30,559
throwing in a like one of my favorite

1593
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,079
internal conflicts in a recent game i

1594
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:34,640
ran i ran a dragon a vice pirate pete

1595
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:36,319
game and uh in that the white dragon is

1596
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,400
one of the big i kind of combined lost

1597
00:52:36,319 --> 00:52:40,559
minds of fendelver and this with into

1598
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,640
one module so there's a green dragon

1599
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:44,480
north of uh vandalin

1600
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,480
and the players go to try to negotiate

1601
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,240
with it to see if it'll help it will

1602
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,079
help take down the white dragon but

1603
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:52,160
green dragon's very manipulative yeah so

1604
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:54,720
it entertains them for a while and it

1605
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:57,119
flat out says no but it it hatches a

1606
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:59,119
plot that it knows the players are going

1607
00:52:57,119 --> 00:53:00,880
to go after this white dragon so it's

1608
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:02,880
gonna wait until the fight happens and

1609
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,880
come in the lair in the middle of it and

1610
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,319
kill them all that's what that's the

1611
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,599
green and that's a very green dragon

1612
00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:10,079
thing to do when they're all wounded

1613
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:12,240
right so um middle of the fight with the

1614
00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:14,640
um with the white dragon

1615
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:16,960
the green dragon lands in the entrance

1616
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:20,000
and he screams like um cry of aid i'm

1617
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,079
here for you and it and the white dragon

1618
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,079
turns to the players and said help me

1619
00:53:22,079 --> 00:53:26,000
kill this dream dragon i'll let you each

1620
00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:27,200
take one piece of my horde and i will

1621
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,280
leave

1622
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,119
and uh and like so then they have to lie

1623
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,520
with a with a

1624
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:36,400
dragon and it was a boss fight it was

1625
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:38,319
amazing that fight was amazing

1626
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,160
and um some players tried to betray the

1627
00:53:38,319 --> 00:53:41,440
dragons and it was really cool but that

1628
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,960
type of

1629
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,520
you wouldn't get that type of moral

1630
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,040
quandary out of traditional alignment

1631
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,119
roles and that's not what they're

1632
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,880
designed to do no

1633
00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:52,480
that's really good and i'm immediately

1634
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,040
thinking like how can i do something

1635
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:58,800
similar how can i steal that

1636
00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:00,559
amazing you should idea it use it use it

1637
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,880
i do have a green dragon knocking around

1638
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:05,119
actually who has got a very a number of

1639
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,240
spinning plates uh you know a number of

1640
00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:08,720
uh

1641
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:10,800
machinations already in the pipeline so

1642
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,079
that's not wouldn't be uh completely out

1643
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,200
of the blue for something like that to

1644
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:15,520
happen

1645
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,119
yeah yeah i liked it worked out

1646
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,720
it was a it was a straight thought of

1647
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:19,760
mine at the time and when i didn't

1648
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:21,839
realize

1649
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:25,839
how good it would work out so it ended

1650
00:54:21,839 --> 00:54:27,440
up being fantastic for me awesome um

1651
00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:29,599
is there anything else that you want

1652
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,200
well yeah i mean we could talk about

1653
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:32,640
this all day because broadly the

1654
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,800
discussion is you know

1655
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,119
philosophy and morals and what makes a

1656
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,839
good person good which again i'm

1657
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:41,680
woefully underqualified to comment on um

1658
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:43,760
but is it is there anything you wanted

1659
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,720
to talk about that we might have not got

1660
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,200
there yet

1661
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:49,119
no just this is a hot button topic in

1662
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,680
the community alignment is a super and i

1663
00:54:49,119 --> 00:54:54,240
understand why yeah yeah and uh

1664
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,680
i i i like a lot of people or because

1665
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:57,359
there's so much discussion online and

1666
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,960
we've gone online primarily because of

1667
00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:00,559
the pandemic

1668
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,319
sometimes i think it worries me

1669
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:05,200
sometimes the bitterness of that

1670
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:07,680
conversation so just in terms of a plea

1671
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,440
to the community um i would ask

1672
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,359
everybody to treat each other gently

1673
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,960
around this and any topic

1674
00:55:11,359 --> 00:55:14,480
and that they would uh you know

1675
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,240
hopefully explore it a little bit to

1676
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,000
understand what people mean by it rather

1677
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:19,599
than be um

1678
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,200
if they are if they are it doesn't apply

1679
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:22,720
to everybody but if they are reactionary

1680
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,720
about it i would just encourage

1681
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:26,000
everybody to be gentle with one another

1682
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:28,640
and to to

1683
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:31,440
have an open discussion not just to be

1684
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:34,000
accepting which is itself worthwhile but

1685
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,440
to evolve community thinking about what

1686
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,480
do we want out of this if it's not

1687
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,319
alignment

1688
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,400
let's figure out what's what does it

1689
00:55:38,319 --> 00:55:42,640
look like to do it well

1690
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,319
rather than just sort of be concerned

1691
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,400
about what we think someone else might

1692
00:55:44,319 --> 00:55:48,000
be thinking about the topic based on a

1693
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,839
few words or a tweet or something like

1694
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,200
that i would just i'd urge us all to be

1695
00:55:49,839 --> 00:55:52,799
a little bit gentle with one another so

1696
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,640
that's my my one topic it's

1697
00:55:52,799 --> 00:55:55,760
controversial i would hope that we can

1698
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,920
be a little bit

1699
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:01,119
mature about our discussion about it and

1700
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:02,640
and generative rather than degenerative

1701
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:04,240
around the discussion of what do we want

1702
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,480
this to be and rather than what do we

1703
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,839
want it not to be

1704
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,200
yep i was thinking while you were

1705
00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:10,400
talking if there's anything i can add

1706
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,599
but no

1707
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,680
that that is

1708
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:15,920
a perfect place to uh

1709
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,359
to stop there i mean the only thing i'll

1710
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,440
say is i

1711
00:56:17,359 --> 00:56:21,520
i i do tend to pride myself in giving

1712
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,760
others the benefit of the doubt until

1713
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,880
repeatedly proven otherwise because even

1714
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,160
if somebody

1715
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,839
mugs you off once they might just be

1716
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,000
having a bad day and so until it's a

1717
00:56:27,839 --> 00:56:31,359
repeated set of you know this guy's

1718
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,839
consistently

1719
00:56:31,359 --> 00:56:35,839
a bad person then there's my line in the

1720
00:56:33,839 --> 00:56:37,680
sand but until that point

1721
00:56:35,839 --> 00:56:39,280
i just just believe people are you know

1722
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,559
speaking from there you know off the

1723
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,559
cuff of you know from the end of their

1724
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:44,480
sleeve and sure it's not the end of the

1725
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:46,480
world if they

1726
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,319
you know say something because it

1727
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,200
probably doesn't mean what you think it

1728
00:56:48,319 --> 00:56:51,520
means

1729
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:53,359
it probably means something that they

1730
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:56,079
couldn't communicate properly because of

1731
00:56:53,359 --> 00:56:58,640
xyz or abc so that's just

1732
00:56:56,079 --> 00:57:00,559
life as as often the way these podcasts

1733
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:03,200
go we end up talking about the human

1734
00:57:00,559 --> 00:57:05,200
nature which yeah it's poetic in a way

1735
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:08,000
here

1736
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:10,880
well uh yeah well thank you ever so much

1737
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,559
for for this discussion today it's been

1738
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,839
fantastic it felt like we talked to both

1739
00:57:12,559 --> 00:57:16,079
of us like a mile a minute which is

1740
00:57:13,839 --> 00:57:18,559
great because it's it's you know

1741
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:20,720
the enthusiasm is is infectious and uh

1742
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:22,400
it's as you said it's a it's really nice

1743
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,920
and refreshing to have a topic a

1744
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:27,200
discussion around that she said uh such

1745
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,240
a hot button topic is alignment and it

1746
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,440
to be it

1747
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,880
face value isn't the right term but you

1748
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,880
know what i mean like

1749
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,319
constructive as you said so you know

1750
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,680
thank you thank you very much scott

1751
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:37,359
thank you for having me it's been great

1752
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,799
as always i really really appreciate it

1753
00:57:37,359 --> 00:57:40,720
love following you on twitter love your

1754
00:57:38,799 --> 00:57:43,200
podcast so thank you thank you so much

1755
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,640
uh is anything you would like to promote

1756
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,559
i'm really simple i'm not selling

1757
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,400
anything i'd just like to foster a good

1758
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:50,079
d d discussion or any table top role

1759
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,160
playing game so give me a follow on

1760
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:54,000
twitter at optional rule no spaces just

1761
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,640
optional rule and you can find my blog

1762
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,559
post on mostly d d but sometimes generic

1763
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:01,520
issues related to tabletop role-playing

1764
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:03,680
games at optionalrule.com

1765
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,119
i must admit i have read a number of

1766
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,520
your blog articles and it's something

1767
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:09,040
that i've considered doing so you can

1768
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,079
take the gold medal for being my

1769
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,160
inspiration because i've thought

1770
00:58:10,079 --> 00:58:13,040
recently like i really should do one

1771
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,920
because

1772
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:18,240
they are it's a good vehicle for

1773
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:21,119
having these longer form discussions

1774
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:23,200
that don't fit into 140 characters or

1775
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:23,720
whatever it is that twitter operates at

1776
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,520
nowadays

1777
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,640
[Laughter]

1778
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,400
thank you

1779
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,520
uh yep so as usual thank you everyone

1780
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,960
for listening at home all the scott

1781
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,720
stuff will be

1782
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,319
in the episode description as normal i

1783
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,839
would also encourage you to go and

1784
00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:37,440
listen to our episode of an agency way

1785
00:58:35,839 --> 00:58:40,160
back in season one if you haven't done

1786
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:42,160
so already again a fantastic and

1787
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,680
insightful discussion

1788
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,599
about weedly like a number of similar

1789
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,760
things but in a very different

1790
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:49,440
context you know like

1791
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,640
taking character agency away because of

1792
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,000
what they're doing is very similar to

1793
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,200
which about you know enforcing alignment

1794
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,040
and all that kind of stuff so very

1795
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,720
another very very very interesting and

1796
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,960
good discussion

1797
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:01,599
otherwise thank you all for listening

1798
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:03,200
and good night

1799
00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:04,400
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1800
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:07,200
outs

1801
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:09,680
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1802
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:12,160
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1803
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:14,640
out there making hilarious and

1804
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:16,440
educational dungeons and dragons content

1805
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,160
please go and check out his stuff at

1806
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:20,559
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1807
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:22,160
links to all of his socials and all of

1808
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:23,839
his content including his own patreon

1809
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,599
which i would very much encourage you to

1810
00:59:23,839 --> 00:59:28,480
check out

1811
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:30,559
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1812
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,079
on twitter for supporting the show if

1813
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:34,680
you need support running your personal

1814
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:36,880
or business schedule head to

1815
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,640
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1816
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,720
make that difference between should do

1817
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,559
and done boss it better with support

1818
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,880
from cat who will help you get back that

1819
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:46,319
essential time you've been searching for

1820
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,240
if you would like to support what we do

1821
00:59:46,319 --> 00:59:50,960
and get four shout outs a month head

1822
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,480
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1823
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,440
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1824
00:59:52,480 --> 01:00:03,450
kofi.com thinking critically

1825
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:23,680
[Music]