Podcasts

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hello and welcome to thinking critically

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a d and d discussion a podcast where we

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deep dive single word concepts or ideas

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within the dungeons and dragons 5e

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framework

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my name is danilo and i like all kinds

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of games and the crunchy mechanics that

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make him tick you can find me on twitter

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facebook and instagram and i'd really

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appreciate a like or a follow

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today i'm joined by mike hibbert thank

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you ever so much for joining us can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself

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sure hi and thank you for having me on

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the show it's uh it's an honor you're in

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fact my first ever guest podcast role so

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i'm quite excited um well a little bit

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about me i'm

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oh crikey 51 years old i know you know

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i've definitely got a face for radio

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these days um

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i've been in and around the

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d and d

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um role-playing scene for many many

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years first started when i was a

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well a teenager well probably

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pre-teenager i think i was 12. uh back

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with the d d box set the red box set i

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don't know if you remember that um

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a little bit before my time

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yes

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i suspect that's a lot before quite a

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few people's time so i've played every

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edition of dnd i've been around a lot

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played lots of other role playing games

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moved over heavily into board gaming a

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few years ago after a failed dungeons

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and dragons evening we decided to play a

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board game instead and didn't look back

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for quite a few years and then i've got

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back into into role playing quite

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recently

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in the last

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year like a lot of people locked down

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inspired really hmm yeah i think it's

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probably a similar

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for yeah a number of people then i don't

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know what has made me think of it but a

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friend sent me a news article yesterday

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saying a lot of people are into fishing

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as well 100 000 more people in the uk

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are into fishing because they're locked

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down so i wonder what other weird and

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wonderful things people are

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refining

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that's really interesting actually and i

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did warn you prior to uh starting i did

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say that i do tend to go off attention

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um one of our favorite programs at the

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moment is the um bob mortar and paul

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whitehouse with their gone fishing have

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you have you watched that at all do you

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know what it's an absolute delight it's

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two old funny guys who've both been told

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that they need to slow their lives down

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for heart related problems just go

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fishing together and talk rubbish for

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half an hour it's fabulous

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oh yeah that sounds great

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it is it truly is it truly is it's on

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the uh on the iplayer go go and watch

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some oh yeah mrs and i run out of things

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to watch so yeah that's it good good

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timing

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so

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maybe surprisingly as i said the topic

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today isn't fishing or tv it's actually

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uh

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it's actually podcasts

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uh so

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what does what does what are podcasts uh

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mean to you mike so i've been i've been

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a consumer i've been a creator and a

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consumer of podcasts for

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quite a few years now and i

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i love what they can bring to you i love

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the fact that you can

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um you know there's there's just tons of

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them out there isn't there there's you

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know you you can find uh find a subject

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that uh that you're passionate about or

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that you're interested in or that you

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just have

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a desire to understand a little bit more

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about and you can bet your bottom dollar

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that somebody somewhere has created a

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podcast

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detailing it all for you so you know i

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was just writing down

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a few podcasts i'd enjoyed um yeah i'm

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sure we'll talk about those later but in

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terms of

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uh in terms of what they mean they're

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just

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a brilliant way for people so

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creators to reach

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their audience and talk about stuff and

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in as niche manner as they want to so

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you know you don't have to worry about

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being a bit too nerdy or a bit not nerdy

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enough or or whatever your your niche is

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you can just

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you can go and you can be you and people

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either like you or they don't like you

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um and you'll never really know um so i

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love them for that but also i love them

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for

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that ability as a as a consumer to say

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you know i fancy

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listening to oh i don't know just

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picking something at random i fancy

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getting into pokemon go let's listen to

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a few podcasts to really understand how

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it's done and you know what what it's

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all about and then you can decide

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that sounds cool that doesn't sound cool

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you know without all the investment and

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the time and things like that you're

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just

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you're it's

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you you're you're learning in a shared

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community and i love that that's yeah

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that's a really nice way to put it and i

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think

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i um follow a couple of podcasting

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subreddits and talking about niches i've

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seen a lot of questions of people have

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put on there of here's my podcast that's

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about 17th century

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coins or something that is super niche

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to me but exactly like you said i'm sure

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there's a huge audience out there for

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that really

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specific topic

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and

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it's you know benefit of today's

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technology that

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people who are interested in 17th

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century coins can

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just google it and they'll be as you

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said there's guaranteed to be a podcast

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about it yeah absolutely i i don't know

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i don't know if you watched uh wayne's

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world back in the day um you know huge

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fan uh but i loved that idea of public

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access tv so

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me as a creator could sit there and

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talk for 10 minutes 20 minutes whatever

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about buzz cut hair

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cusses and things like that and people

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will either listen or they won't listen

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now that that technology

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was never available to us

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uk side and i don't really know how

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accessible it was stateside but podcasts

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i can do that

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if i want my own radio show of music

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that i've created whilst i talk about

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13th century um ramekins um then

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plucking things at random then then i

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can do that and people can either listen

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or they don't listen you know and i just

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i can just put it out there

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yeah it's quite sweet it's quite nice

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yep so

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how do you think

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the

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nature of podcasts has changed over the

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years and let's just keep it broad you

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know that's not let's not keep it

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specific to dnd just yet we'll dive into

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the details later on but um

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hands up my experience is quite limited

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at the moment uh which might be

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surprising considering i'm recording one

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as we speak uh but

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but in terms of listening i i don't have

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a huge library of things i follow uh

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unlike my girlfriend who has many and

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what i do follow is very modern and very

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recent so i wasn't there when they first

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came out i probably didn't have a phone

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that could support them when they first

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came out

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i was rocking a retro phone for way

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longer than i probably should have done

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but um yeah so how do you think they've

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changed or has it always been the

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similar kind of theme and

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that kind of public access ethos has

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stayed the same throughout what are your

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thoughts

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um that's it that's a great question i i

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think

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so as i mentioned at the start i

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i have been

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a creator in the past so probably and i

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was trying to remember the timeline just

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before we started probably as early as

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2006 2007

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maybe maybe a little bit later i can't

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quite remember

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i was a co-host of a board games podcast

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called into the gamescape

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i can promote them because you can't get

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hold of me you can't get hold of the

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audio anymore so

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so there's no danger of you going back

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and listening um it's just how

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truly terrible we were

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so we did probably

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70 or 80 shows um and we had

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i don't know i think at our our peak we

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probably had about a thousand listeners

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worldwide well and that's part of it i

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think back then there was a lot fewer

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people doing it so

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we were heavily into board gaming at the

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time so lots and lots of uh

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fairly heavy duty board games war games

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um warhammer

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some of the real um the real sort of uh

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in-depth geeky hex and um

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little chip kind of war games that kind

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of stuff

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so we did quite a lot there was three of

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us um and i think that again was an

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interesting and interesting dynamic

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people hadn't

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hadn't really heard that before um it

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was generally it was just it was one guy

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or maybe a couple of guys and i think

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back then there was there was less

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options so you had maybe

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a dozen different podcasts to choose

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from

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we were always a little bit niche

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because we were english and lots of

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people hadn't really heard you know

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board gaming then was was either a very

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european german-based hobby or american

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so the fact that there was you know

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three guys from blighty

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um waffling on about board games um i

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think picked us up quite a few listeners

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but the really interesting thing is that

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i don't think a lot has changed since

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then other than there are obviously more

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podcasts available so i think you know

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the the the pie has got bigger um but

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there's a lot more people taking slices

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out of it

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but but for example when you said to me

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download audacity to do the recording um

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that was what we used

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14 13 years ago

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so in terms of technology not a lot has

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changed we recorded on

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audacity and did all our editing and

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chopping out the the rambling

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of which there was plenty and then we

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put it up through

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libsyn i don't know whether they're

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still going

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and they just had a little web page and

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people downloaded it through itunes

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but other than that i don't think a lot

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a lot's really changed hmm yeah some

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things never never change maybe uh maybe

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audacity has a dark theme now maybe

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00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:34,560
that's the

282
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,320
biggest change

283
00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:39,040
well to be honest

284
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,839
looking at it it looks exactly the same

285
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,600
um

286
00:10:39,839 --> 00:10:43,040
you know i'm sure that i'm sure they've

287
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,079
done lots of work on it i'm sure it does

288
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,480
lots of

289
00:10:44,079 --> 00:10:50,240
lots of far more cleverer things than

290
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:51,279
than ever it did um but yeah for a while

291
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,279
i got

292
00:10:51,279 --> 00:10:56,160
relatively good at you know chopping

293
00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:58,320
bits out making it all sound seamless

294
00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:01,200
dropping in interstitials and goodness

295
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,440
as well explosives which is more terms

296
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,560
that i'm learning as i yes

297
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,720
yes

298
00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:08,800
i have noticed a couple of mine as we as

299
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,399
we were recording

300
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,360
yeah that's a good segue actually

301
00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:15,760
because the next point i had on my notes

302
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,560
was editing funnily enough and i know

303
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,240
we're

304
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,360
not keeping it tabletopy for the time

305
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,760
being but i think when you're when

306
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,360
you're discussing a meta topic like this

307
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,440
you're going to have to indulge

308
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,040
the hosts a little bit and i don't think

309
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,680
i could have picked a better guest for

310
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,600
this particular topic so uh

311
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,760
so talking of editing i think you said

312
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,720
you mentioned you did a bit back in the

313
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,959
day

314
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,120
you know you still hone those skills at

315
00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:41,120
all or have you you know is it like

316
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,480
riding a bicycle or how did you find it

317
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,200
when you when you were doing it back

318
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,160
then

319
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:49,040
so i i'm not sure i haven't done any for

320
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,720
a long time so i've fallen off my bike

321
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,839
haven't quite tried getting back on it

322
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,920
yet uh but you know look at looking at

323
00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:58,399
the voice profile that

324
00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:01,440
that audacity is doing i suspect it's

325
00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:03,200
pretty similar um so we did two passes

326
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,600
of the edit so there was three of us

327
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,560
that did the podcast and we all had

328
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,000
different

329
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,519
skills so

330
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,560
um paul

331
00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:14,720
one of the the co-hosts um his skill was

332
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,600
that he just didn't give a damn

333
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,519
so

334
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,920
so he was like yeah you guys just do

335
00:12:17,519 --> 00:12:20,800
whatever i'm once i finish talking i'm

336
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,279
done

337
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:26,320
yeah um i was very

338
00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:28,160
aware of pops and crackles and

339
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,760
background noises and making sure the

340
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,680
levels were right and all that kind of

341
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,760
stuff that really i'm a bit of a

342
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:35,920
perfectionist with stuff yeah so i

343
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,959
really wanted that to be right and the

344
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,920
other guy sai was much more aware of the

345
00:12:38,959 --> 00:12:43,680
content and what we were saying and um

346
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,320
you know he was he was i suppose our

347
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:49,040
brand guy yeah so we would go through i

348
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,079
would well we would we would either do

349
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:54,880
it together where we'd sit down um i'd

350
00:12:52,079 --> 00:12:56,079
do a very quick pass of the sand and say

351
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,519
well i want to take that out i want to

352
00:12:56,079 --> 00:12:59,279
take that out i want to take that out

353
00:12:57,519 --> 00:13:00,880
and then he'd say

354
00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:02,320
i think we need to

355
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,839
that little bit there i think we

356
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,560
probably want to take that bit out

357
00:13:03,839 --> 00:13:08,800
because we were we were very heavily

358
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:11,680
family friendly so

359
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,760
um any any swears or that kind of stuff

360
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:16,480
we we whipped out

361
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:18,880
but yeah other than that i think the the

362
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,399
editing process is probably very similar

363
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,320
these days

364
00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:24,399
yeah well uh that sounds like you had a

365
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,320
really good mix there of

366
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:29,120
people that can kind of plug the gaps

367
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,480
and i found that it takes me

368
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,680
uh

369
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,279
well actually i'm bringing that time

370
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:35,279
down but it used to take me three times

371
00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:37,920
the length of the episode to edit an

372
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:39,600
episode so it's about three hours for

373
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,240
every one hour episode give or take

374
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:45,519
which i've now gotten down to maybe two

375
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,360
and a half just from moving across the

376
00:13:45,519 --> 00:13:48,880
knowing audacity a little bit better and

377
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,360
moving across and a couple of shortcuts

378
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,880
and whatnot but um i must admit that was

379
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,160
that's that's the classic well they

380
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,680
don't tell you about that before they

381
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,639
start

382
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,240
the thing that you know hey you're

383
00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:00,320
starting a podcast but you're gonna have

384
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,120
to edit it and

385
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:06,000
that takes time and i am also

386
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:08,720
a perfectionist and half that editing

387
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:11,120
time is me debating whether i should cut

388
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,320
out a certain thing or is that s just a

389
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,320
little bit too essy

390
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,480
okay sonic go back five minutes and

391
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,240
start to

392
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,920
have to go back because it's just

393
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,240
it's just festering there in the back of

394
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,160
my mind that one little thing that it's

395
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,839
bugging me and i have to go back and fix

396
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,279
it so it's the little bit slighter so

397
00:14:27,839 --> 00:14:32,160
i've just noticed you know when you said

398
00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:34,560
that i i chuckled um so there's a little

399
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,399
blip on my line that says you know mike

400
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,480
chuckled and

401
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:40,079
if if it's my podcast i'd be thinking

402
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,160
right i'm just going to flatten that i'm

403
00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:44,399
going to take those chuckles out and

404
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,600
no but then potentially do you do you

405
00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:48,000
lose a

406
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,160
natural conversational style i mean why

407
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,600
why do people listen to podcasts

408
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,880
um is it just for information i mean i'm

409
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,199
i'm not sure

410
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,880
particularly with a with a theme and

411
00:14:57,199 --> 00:15:00,000
something like this so

412
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,399
um

413
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,079
what are your listeners are they podcast

414
00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:06,320
fanatics or are they

415
00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:07,519
role-playing fanatics that want to you

416
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,440
know so

417
00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:12,560
so yeah it's a really interesting one

418
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,399
isn't it yeah i think it's what's what's

419
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,079
really nice from a human being

420
00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:17,600
perspective is i've

421
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:20,160
noticeably got

422
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,560
better i'm not good but i'm better than

423
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:26,079
having never done it before and i think

424
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:28,639
a lot of the expertise comes from and in

425
00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:31,040
my crowbar way of bringing us back into

426
00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:35,120
d d is very similar to

427
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:36,880
a dungeon master experience of knowing

428
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,880
just having this kind of innate

429
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,360
understanding of when is a good time to

430
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,959
cut something out or leave and um in

431
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,279
because it actually adds

432
00:15:42,959 --> 00:15:47,519
to the conversation in the same way that

433
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:49,839
a dungeon master might know when to

434
00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:50,880
allow something and let something slide

435
00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:52,959
because it adds something to the

436
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,800
gameplay versus being like no let's just

437
00:15:52,959 --> 00:15:57,600
move on because you know i'm just going

438
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,959
to say no in this instance and that's

439
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,440
something that

440
00:15:58,959 --> 00:16:02,959
my first episode that i edited at this

441
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,199
podcast was

442
00:16:02,959 --> 00:16:06,959
it took me forever and i was probably

443
00:16:05,199 --> 00:16:09,839
way too strict on getting rid of all the

444
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:11,519
filter words just because in my head at

445
00:16:09,839 --> 00:16:12,959
that time it was

446
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:16,240
they weren't content they were just

447
00:16:12,959 --> 00:16:18,000
garbage whereas now i'm like actually no

448
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,440
that if i leave that

449
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,440
you know in

450
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,079
it actually helps the conversation flow

451
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,680
a little bit better and i'm i'm like to

452
00:16:24,079 --> 00:16:27,199
think that i'm slowly moving towards

453
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,759
that middle ground of

454
00:16:27,199 --> 00:16:31,440
let me cut out the real waste of time

455
00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:32,320
but leave in here and there just a

456
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,079
little

457
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,360
drop of humanity

458
00:16:34,079 --> 00:16:39,600
just so it still sounds natural

459
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,759
yes i think you're right we're not um i

460
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,240
mean i certainly have never been to

461
00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:47,360
finishing school um and i didn't go to

462
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,639
the um you know i don't work for the bbc

463
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,839
so

464
00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:53,360
you've got lots of you knows arms ours

465
00:16:51,839 --> 00:16:54,639
uh yeah

466
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,639
it is really interesting actually

467
00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:59,680
because we have obviously we're all

468
00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:01,600
doing a lot more of these uh calls

469
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,199
both for this kind of thing but also

470
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,640
professionally you know i spend most of

471
00:17:03,199 --> 00:17:08,400
my day now on calls yeah you know and

472
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,199
you do end up

473
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:14,720
counting things like arms and arms and

474
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:16,160
your nose and stuff uh you know you're

475
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,600
in fact i'm really aware that i've said

476
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,039
you know four times yep in this entire

477
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,839
it's like that thing where people say

478
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:23,280
like

479
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:25,679
you're breathing right now and then

480
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,960
suddenly you can't not think about

481
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:32,559
breathing here absolutely absolutely so

482
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,000
i'm i'm very aware of people's your nose

483
00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:35,520
and um

484
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,240
arms and arms and things like that

485
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,240
because you you hear it so much more i

486
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,360
think if you're in a in a meeting with

487
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,919
somebody face to face uh at work

488
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:48,799
you don't fill in space in the same way

489
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:50,080
that you do on a podcast or actually you

490
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:51,919
know on a

491
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,320
zoom call or something

492
00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:56,080
yeah it's a curse of editing i suppose

493
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,080
is that you you have to train yourself

494
00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,559
to pick up those things and then when

495
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,240
you stop editing you've still got that

496
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:03,840
talent just knocking around so when

497
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,120
you're talking to people or listening to

498
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,520
calls and

499
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:09,520
a colleague of mine just on friday

500
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,960
she was delivering some some training

501
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,480
and we worked quite closely together and

502
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,000
she was a bit nervous because i hate the

503
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,480
sound of my own voice and i'm always

504
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,559
saying um and ars and i was like yeah i

505
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,400
know i tell well

506
00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:21,440
tell me about it and then i gave her the

507
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,840
example of

508
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,520
how if i recorded an episode of this

509
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,919
thinking critically podcast that might

510
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,520
be recorded to one minute 15 after i

511
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:30,880
edit it down it's usually about one

512
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,480
minute five

513
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,280
so between

514
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:38,000
the filter words and

515
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,039
just gaps of silence i can usually get

516
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,320
rid of about

517
00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:43,200
10 minutes

518
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,559
worth of essentially dead air

519
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,200
let me put that into perspective for you

520
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:48,160
of how much people um are so don't worry

521
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,679
about it

522
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,600
because it's it's it's everywhere and

523
00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:53,679
everybody does it all that and i think

524
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,320
it makes it makes it conversationally

525
00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:58,559
fair i think people listen to stuff and

526
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,160
if it's too polished it it just doesn't

527
00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:00,960
sound natural

528
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,000
yeah

529
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,880
yeah for sure it sounds like you're

530
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,200
reading from a script yeah yeah

531
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,480
okay let's move on to

532
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,720
let's try and talk about some tabletop

533
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,400
role-playing games for a change uh

534
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,840
today

535
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,000
okay so

536
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,200
one of the reasons i personally

537
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,559
started this

538
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,600
was

539
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:25,440
yes i think that i'm a

540
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:28,799
moderately okay dm and that would other

541
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,320
people like to hear me play in a game

542
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:31,679
yes maybe

543
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,600
however

544
00:19:31,679 --> 00:19:35,520
from what i gather there are an awful

545
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,799
lot of

546
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,080
actual plays

547
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:42,480
which are d d or other tabletop rpgs

548
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,799
that are either streamed or recorded and

549
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,280
then put as youtubes and podcasts where

550
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,880
they're actually playing the game

551
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,880
in quotes and i

552
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,600
use quotes because depending on the

553
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,200
production values they're not always

554
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,000
playing the

555
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,240
raw version of the game shall we say or

556
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,919
or a public version of the game for lack

557
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,760
of a better term so

558
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:04,640
i don't know do you listen to any actual

559
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,320
plays

560
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,760
are you familiar with any have you been

561
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,520
in any

562
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,679
i listen to

563
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,559
three or four and so i regularly listen

564
00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:17,039
to three or four um different podcasts

565
00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:20,240
and gem really what i do

566
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:21,760
is i'm a bit of a completer on a

567
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,200
myers-briggs terminal i would be a

568
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:27,600
completer finisher so i tend to binge on

569
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:30,320
a on a podcast so i listen to everything

570
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:33,679
and then i try and stay fairly current

571
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,200
so um i don't i don't tend to have lots

572
00:20:33,679 --> 00:20:37,600
and lots and lots on the go at the same

573
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,480
time yeah i just yeah all the stories

574
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,760
get confused and and blurred but but

575
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,799
you're absolutely right i think there

576
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,960
are there are dozens and dozens of um

577
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:49,919
real play podcasts out there

578
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:52,799
the ones i tend to listen to is dice and

579
00:20:49,919 --> 00:20:55,280
desire those guys are very funny

580
00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:56,320
so i'm i'm currently working my way back

581
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,679
through

582
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,120
that at the moment um roll the damn dice

583
00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:02,880
i listen to

584
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:04,960
and again i'm sort of trying to catch

585
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,720
i'm sort of i listened to the current

586
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,520
ones and now i'm sort of catching back

587
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,960
up

588
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:13,360
um the dice and die podcast

589
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,039
now i have actually caught myself up on

590
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:17,280
those as the um

591
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:19,039
the main ones that i listened to when i

592
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,559
first started listening and i'll be

593
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:22,000
honest the reason i started listening to

594
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:25,760
them was that they were running through

595
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,480
the lost minds of fandoline fendovlar

596
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,280
and

597
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,600
something like that yeah yeah and i was

598
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:34,240
going to be running that for my son and

599
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,960
some of his friends so i thought i'll uh

600
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:40,000
i'll listen to that and do you know what

601
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:43,200
they've done a really good job of taking

602
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,200
a level one to five adventure and

603
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,240
turning it into an entire sort of

604
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,919
campaign world and you know they they're

605
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,679
they're great i really like those guys

606
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:53,120
yeah so in terms of the those are the

607
00:21:51,679 --> 00:21:57,679
three main

608
00:21:53,120 --> 00:22:00,159
real play podcasts that i listen to um

609
00:21:57,679 --> 00:22:02,320
but but you're right there's i i think

610
00:22:00,159 --> 00:22:05,120
one of the issues that i've always had

611
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:08,559
is is it's almost uh you know i'd like

612
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:12,720
to do a real play podcast but i think my

613
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:14,000
um my play style is probably not

614
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,840
something that other people would

615
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,120
necessarily want to listen to

616
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,280
you know i tend to

617
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:21,919
we muck around we have fun

618
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:24,960
we tell in jokes yeah we're still doing

619
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:28,320
jokes from 20 years ago kind of thing

620
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,640
um you know you rock has always become

621
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,559
you rick to us because of a typing

622
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,200
mistake that someone made in uh world of

623
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:36,480
warcraft 15 years ago you know it's

624
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,799
little daft things like that that

625
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:42,080
perhaps wouldn't translate to that well

626
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:44,320
yeah but also you know we do we do stop

627
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,960
and delve into the rules and we do go oh

628
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,320
hang on a sec i can't quite do that um

629
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,600
and i think

630
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,240
you know you're either a a rules-y kind

631
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,200
of

632
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,200
thing or you're a hand wave the rules

633
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,280
kind of thing and i think

634
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,720
i think if you you know if you want to

635
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,280
stop and check rules and things like

636
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:06,159
that it kind of if you're live streaming

637
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,320
on twitch and stuff or whatever yeah

638
00:23:06,159 --> 00:23:09,760
then you know it doesn't necessarily

639
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,120
work if you say well hang on a second

640
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:15,280
let me just check the rules um and also

641
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:18,480
you know i'm sure i'm sure there's lots

642
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,320
of things i do completely wrong um and

643
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,080
i'm as i think i said earlier i'm a bit

644
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,440
of a perfectionist and i'd be really

645
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,320
frustrated

646
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,120
being

647
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,200
playing something and um you know people

648
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:31,679
then saying you're doing that wrong it's

649
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,720
like oh really

650
00:23:31,679 --> 00:23:35,600
brilliant

651
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,159
so yeah for many reasons i think maybe

652
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,919
doing a i'd you know if somebody said do

653
00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:42,559
you want to come along and do a real

654
00:23:39,919 --> 00:23:44,000
play and just jump on the the show and

655
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:48,240
do a one-off or something like that i'd

656
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:51,760
be great but maybe doing my own um

657
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:54,400
yeah i think my my fragile emotional ego

658
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,400
couldn't take that

659
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,720
i mean the fact that you can

660
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,679
you you're self-aware enough to say that

661
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,520
is

662
00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:02,480
really good to start with because i

663
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,960
imagine there's a lot of people that

664
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,480
don't even have that thought process

665
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,400
yeah i touched on a really good point

666
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,480
there of almost

667
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,240
you have to change the game a little bit

668
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,159
because you're catering for a different

669
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,320
audience and a different

670
00:24:14,159 --> 00:24:17,840
production values and different platform

671
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,200
which sounds obvious when i say it i

672
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,159
mean i've lost track of the amount of

673
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,080
times i've said something on this

674
00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:23,919
podcast and then said to myself well

675
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,320
that sounds obvious down there well done

676
00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:27,679
you've provided zero value whatsoever

677
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,960
but uh

678
00:24:27,679 --> 00:24:31,200
but if it's not obvious to you

679
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,440
immediately i'm sure there's lots of you

680
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,400
know you end up saying things that are

681
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,080
obvious

682
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,000
um and other people are going the same

683
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,840
oh yeah i never thought about that um

684
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,799
yeah thank you for reassuring me there

685
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,600
huh

686
00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:45,200
you're very welcome yeah so that like

687
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,640
it makes sense when you say out loud but

688
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,840
i think it's a lot of things that maybe

689
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,080
people don't think of in the same way

690
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,520
that i didn't necessarily think download

691
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,279
you've got to do three hours of editing

692
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,200
for every episode you do

693
00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:56,880
maybe people don't think hey i'm gonna

694
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,880
have to consider

695
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,520
how we play quite heavily before we

696
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,159
start recording otherwise you're right

697
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,240
you can maybe fall in to that trap is

698
00:25:04,159 --> 00:25:09,360
maybe too strong of a word but that

699
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,279
niche to use a softer term of

700
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,720
here's just me and my friends playing

701
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:14,150
and

702
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,440
who wants to listen

703
00:25:14,150 --> 00:25:17,600
[Laughter]

704
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,320
yeah i mean don't don't don't get me

705
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,960
wrong i really do the real play podcast

706
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,960
i listen to i really enjoy yeah um you

707
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,600
know there's a few others um that are on

708
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,279
my list that i want to get on to uh what

709
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,440
i tend to do is i'll dip in and have a

710
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:33,360
listen so yeah roll virginia and

711
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,440
intelligent check i've listened to a

712
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:37,360
couple of episodes both of those and i

713
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,200
like the style so they're in my you know

714
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,360
i need to go back and start at the

715
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,760
beginning or at some point find a good

716
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:45,840
jumping in point now that would that

717
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:49,200
would maybe so if you're if you're a

718
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:51,039
creator out there with a podcast

719
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,320
that would be a really good feature to

720
00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:56,480
have is a where to start thing so maybe

721
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,080
say to new listeners right go and listen

722
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,159
to episode one because that's where we

723
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,840
introduce our characters but then

724
00:26:00,159 --> 00:26:06,080
episodes one to 50 are

725
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,919
this part of the adventure and then we

726
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,640
go on to this and then we go on to this

727
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:11,840
so start here that kind of stuff

728
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,360
yeah that's a good idea because there's

729
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,120
always going to be a few warm-up

730
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:16,960
episodes where you're still kind of

731
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:19,520
betting in the technical issues and

732
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,799
making sure everyone's comfy and so on

733
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,320
and so on so yeah if you condense all

734
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:24,159
that down it's like the first arc or the

735
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,120
first chapter then you can say new

736
00:26:24,159 --> 00:26:26,400
players

737
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,559
basically you can probably start at

738
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,440
chapter two and the production values

739
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:32,159
are

740
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,600
a lot better and everyone's a lot more

741
00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:35,600
you know hitting the ground running kind

742
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,200
of thing yeah and that chapter of the

743
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,880
story

744
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,679
has kind of finished and you know all

745
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:45,360
you need to know is that uh xyz is the

746
00:26:41,679 --> 00:26:46,880
uh the big bad end guy um and we're

747
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,159
we're trying to do this or we're trying

748
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,960
to do that

749
00:26:48,159 --> 00:26:52,720
maybe just do a little entry yeah so

750
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,010
there there's there we are sorting other

751
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,679
people's podcasting for them

752
00:26:54,010 --> 00:26:57,919
[Laughter]

753
00:26:55,679 --> 00:27:00,880
sorry guys it's a two-for-one benefit

754
00:26:57,919 --> 00:27:00,880
this show everybody

755
00:27:01,039 --> 00:27:04,480
no that's that you know a please that's

756
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,799
the the purpose of this especially this

757
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,640
episode more than others is insight and

758
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:11,520
experience and knowledge and stuff so

759
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,720
please go ahead but the more people that

760
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,400
come out the other side are listening to

761
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,799
this and go hey i didn't know that going

762
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,930
in that's all that's all i'm after so

763
00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:23,259
good please

764
00:27:19,930 --> 00:27:23,259
[Music]

765
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,880
so we've danced around the topic a

766
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:36,880
little bit but and you've obviously

767
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:39,120
mentioned a couple that you like now we

768
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,960
can start to anonymize things because

769
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:44,080
the perhaps difficult question i want to

770
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:46,720
ask you is what makes a good

771
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,480
real play podcast and what makes maybe

772
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,360
you're not so good and maybe now you

773
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,159
want to

774
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:54,880
not use names there yeah

775
00:27:52,159 --> 00:27:57,200
okay so i think for me

776
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,679
there's there's a few things so

777
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,799
what i like about the podcasts that i

778
00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:06,000
that i like and i listen to is i'm not

779
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:08,960
listening to a story so much but i'm

780
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,720
transported to a table so

781
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:15,039
certainly the the role the damn dice

782
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:17,600
guys and the dyson die and dyson desire

783
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:19,120
guys they take me to their table so

784
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:23,039
while i'm listening

785
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:26,399
i'm almost uh i'm like an nps or an you

786
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:29,039
know non-player yeah player i'm an mpp

787
00:28:26,399 --> 00:28:31,120
sat there sat at their table just not

788
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:32,960
saying a lot and it's sometimes actually

789
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:35,120
saying a lot because i'm answering their

790
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,200
questions and i'm you know bantering

791
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:39,279
with them in my head kind of thing um

792
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,520
and i think that's that's what i really

793
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:43,679
like about some of the the the real play

794
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,279
stuff is i'm there i'm literally at the

795
00:28:43,679 --> 00:28:47,360
table with them i'm going no don't do

796
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:49,679
that you banana what do you think you're

797
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,440
doing no don't go down the stairs and

798
00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:52,960
they're doing something i'm like no i

799
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,520
know that that's going to be a bad idea

800
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,679
don't do it and i'm actually there at

801
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,799
their table with them and that's

802
00:28:57,679 --> 00:29:03,120
that's brilliant and i feel like you

803
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:05,440
know if they once were done with all

804
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,520
this lockdown malarkey if they said come

805
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,440
down the pub have a pint with us i'd be

806
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,960
there and i'd be straight into the

807
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,720
banter with them

808
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,039
and i think that's that's the really

809
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,679
important thing i like

810
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:20,000
back and forth quips and jokes and stuff

811
00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:21,679
like that and you know you rick kind of

812
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,159
comments um

813
00:29:21,679 --> 00:29:25,840
i like all that banter and being at a

814
00:29:24,159 --> 00:29:28,320
table where there's all that kind of

815
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,440
banter and silliness i think really

816
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,120
works yeah so that's that's what i like

817
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,200
now the stuff that

818
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,440
maybe leaves me a little bit cooler a

819
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,279
little bit colder mm-hmm and it's a

820
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,880
really it is a really interesting one

821
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:42,720
and this is possibly a controversial

822
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,760
statement um because i am going to name

823
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:48,960
names not in a bad way but i i read lots

824
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,000
of about one of the podcasts and you

825
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,919
know everyone would have heard of

826
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,640
critical role yeah yeah

827
00:29:51,919 --> 00:29:54,799
and

828
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,200
i've never listened to the show so more

829
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:59,279
than you know watching a few excerpts

830
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,600
and things like that and i love what

831
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:03,200
they're doing but i also

832
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,200
don't love what they're doing yeah and

833
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,279
in in almost equal measure

834
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,360
so so i will explain rather than just

835
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:11,679
leave her let me just say

836
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,480
you don't have to worry about me because

837
00:30:11,679 --> 00:30:15,520
um

838
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:18,640
on another episode of this uh macro uh

839
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:21,440
nathan and i talk about a quick role and

840
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,120
firstly you've proven my point in that

841
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,320
you can't really talk about dnd without

842
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,480
talking about critical role because of

843
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,840
how ubiquitous it is so thank you very

844
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,600
much for proving a point i made a few

845
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,200
weeks ago very happy with that there's a

846
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,279
very uh

847
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,600
evil grin on my face

848
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:37,200
and secondly in that episode you'll find

849
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,240
that yeah i'm not

850
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:42,000
like a huge huge fan so please don't uh

851
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,440
don't worry about offending me

852
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,039
okay cool

853
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,559
um so

854
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:49,520
so yes i

855
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:50,960
i what i do what i love is they have

856
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,760
brought dmd

857
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,480
to

858
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,760
lots and lots and lots of people so when

859
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,559
i was a kid

860
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,440
as i said my my journey into dnd

861
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:05,200
started when i was 12 and literally

862
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,320
nobody had heard of it so yeah i started

863
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,840
playing

864
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,600
none of my friends knew about it there

865
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,960
were two guys at school that played it

866
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,519
that was it

867
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,159
so i started hanging out with them i got

868
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:18,399
into it based on the warlock of fire top

869
00:31:16,159 --> 00:31:19,360
mountain books

870
00:31:18,399 --> 00:31:21,279
yeah yeah

871
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,159
so i got that i can remember going with

872
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:26,080
my nan to buy that um probably in the

873
00:31:24,159 --> 00:31:28,799
summer holiday of uh

874
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,320
of going into into big school

875
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:32,559
and i loved it and that's that's what

876
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,159
got me into that whole journey um but

877
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:35,840
there was there was nothing like

878
00:31:34,159 --> 00:31:37,600
listening to other people doing it or

879
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,840
anything like that yeah and then we'd go

880
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,919
to there was a shop in bristol where i

881
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,320
lived called the forever people so if

882
00:31:41,919 --> 00:31:46,080
there's any old people old gamers will

883
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,240
have remembered that but probably nobody

884
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,320
else will and you could watch the

885
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,399
um i would have been the students i

886
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,480
guess back then from bristol university

887
00:31:52,399 --> 00:31:56,080
they would play in the shop on a

888
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,480
saturday morning yeah it was brilliant

889
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,880
it was like spectator sport for me you

890
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,120
know i'd go and watch them play you know

891
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,080
dungeons and dragons yes yeah that is

892
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,919
okay that's really cool yep oh it was

893
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,159
because it again it taught me so much

894
00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:12,000
and critical role

895
00:32:10,159 --> 00:32:13,919
either you know the modern day bristol

896
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,640
university geeks playing d d on a

897
00:32:13,919 --> 00:32:19,600
saturday morning they have brought

898
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,039
it to the masses and you know for that i

899
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,399
think it's brilliant

900
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:26,559
there's so many people on dnd twitter

901
00:32:24,399 --> 00:32:29,360
that just wouldn't be there were it not

902
00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:30,559
for critical role so that's that's great

903
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,000
but also

904
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:33,120
i think it

905
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:37,120
puts

906
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:40,880
unfair and unrealistic expectations

907
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,399
on dms to make it a show to do all the

908
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:46,159
voices to

909
00:32:42,399 --> 00:32:48,640
have props and meanies and amazing maps

910
00:32:46,159 --> 00:32:53,279
and all that kind of stuff yeah and

911
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:54,480
i i know that if i was if i was so idm

912
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:56,880
for

913
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,200
my son and a group of his friends on a

914
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,080
on a what day friday afternoon after

915
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,519
school

916
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,240
um and

917
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:06,159
we we use roll 20 so i've just bought

918
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,200
the module that we're doing

919
00:33:06,159 --> 00:33:09,200
um

920
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,120
and i do it on there but it's always

921
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,760
full of oh how did you get this thing to

922
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,640
do that and yeah it's all very

923
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:19,120
bit slow a bit clunky and i

924
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,120
very rare i i sometimes do voices not

925
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,720
very often but it's

926
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,039
it's descriptive it's theater of the

927
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,279
mind for me and that's very much how i

928
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:29,279
play and that's my play style now had

929
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:32,000
they come from the look we've seen

930
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:33,039
critical role we want to play d we want

931
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,919
to need you

932
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:37,440
exactly exactly i'd i'd be

933
00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:39,039
you know i'd be the world's worst

934
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,240
dungeon master for them because they'd

935
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:43,760
be looking at it and saying you know

936
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,279
well you know

937
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,360
dwarfs are supposed to have scottish

938
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:49,120
accents aren't they why aren't you doing

939
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,480
why aren't you doing that and why aren't

940
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,120
you doing this and

941
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,120
you know can we have minis and you know

942
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,919
glam it up a bit and

943
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,159
so i wonder how many people

944
00:33:57,919 --> 00:34:03,440
um and this is something that you can't

945
00:34:00,159 --> 00:34:04,880
ever answer but had d become as popular

946
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,600
as it has

947
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,520
with critical role being

948
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,919
less exuberant

949
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,839
i wonder how many more people would be

950
00:34:11,919 --> 00:34:16,079
staying with the game or keen to have a

951
00:34:13,839 --> 00:34:17,839
go at being a dm and saying

952
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:18,560
you know i'll give that a go because i

953
00:34:17,839 --> 00:34:20,960
know

954
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,399
i know i see quite a few people on

955
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,560
twitter saying

956
00:34:22,399 --> 00:34:27,200
i'm the dm i'm really for the first time

957
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,919
i'm really nervous about it yeah and

958
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,839
well it's it's just a game just

959
00:34:29,919 --> 00:34:34,240
just roll with it it's absolutely fine

960
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:36,399
there's nothing to be nervous about just

961
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:38,320
discover your style and just go for it

962
00:34:36,399 --> 00:34:39,760
and i wonder how much of that nerves is

963
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,079
born out of

964
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,760
not going to be as good as matt and you

965
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:45,440
know i'll ruin the game for my players

966
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,720
when actually all your players need is a

967
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,399
framework

968
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:51,200
you tell them what's going on and for

969
00:34:48,399 --> 00:34:53,919
them to do some stuff yeah yeah they're

970
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,879
kind of self-imposed expectations

971
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:57,200
on

972
00:34:54,879 --> 00:34:58,160
themselves which uh no one else really

973
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,240
should

974
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,960
should have you know it's the dm's

975
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:05,440
game to a certain extent so yeah as you

976
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:08,000
said find your way of doing it and

977
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,359
roll with it yeah exactly and you know i

978
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,079
look back to

979
00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:14,240
uh some of the early early modules and

980
00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:16,640
things like that and it was very much a

981
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:19,040
dm's framework i

982
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,040
you know i think you said earlier you're

983
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,880
you know we're near as old as me um so

984
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,040
you won't remember the the sort of the

985
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,720
against the giants modules and the

986
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,880
expeditions to the barrier peaks and

987
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:32,000
things like that and and even within

988
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,079
those as purchased modules so you buy a

989
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:37,119
module to tell the story for you and

990
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:39,440
huge swathes of it were was like there

991
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:40,800
here's an entire floor just populate it

992
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,680
as you see fit

993
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,920
um

994
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,480
yeah absolutely so

995
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:49,520
you know i can remember as a as a 13

996
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,520
year old dm looking at that thinking

997
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,280
what am i going to do how can i do that

998
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:57,280
but but necessity dictates that you come

999
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,280
up with some stuff

1000
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,480
so as a dm it's for you to tell the

1001
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,320
story

1002
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,839
i don't think you need to worry too much

1003
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,640
about

1004
00:36:03,839 --> 00:36:08,079
how you tell that story just just tell

1005
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,640
the story

1006
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:13,440
frame it and let the players come up

1007
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,359
with what they want yeah no i'm

1008
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,520
absolutely the same school of thought

1009
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:19,839
and i was in a discussion with somebody

1010
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,000
on twitter probably about a month ago

1011
00:36:19,839 --> 00:36:23,920
now we were talking about exactly that

1012
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,440
actually the mercer effect as they call

1013
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,560
it someone made a post about it

1014
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,640
something and

1015
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,640
and this person i was talking to said oh

1016
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,160
come on is that is that really a thing

1017
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,240
if your players are thinking that then

1018
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,520
this you know then they're idiots or

1019
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:37,359
there's something wrong with them you

1020
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,040
know i can't believe anyone would ever

1021
00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:41,680
think that and i said

1022
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,180
hey it is absolutely a thing because

1023
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,640
matt said it himself so

1024
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:47,599
[Laughter]

1025
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,960
and b if if exactly like you've said

1026
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:51,040
for a lot of people that's going to be

1027
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,320
their entry point that's going to be

1028
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,240
their gateway

1029
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,160
and so that's going to be their only

1030
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:59,280
single frame of reference

1031
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:01,359
so it's just going to happen

1032
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,280
so absolutely like you know that that's

1033
00:37:01,359 --> 00:37:05,040
what they're going to expect and setting

1034
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,359
expectations is

1035
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,119
super super important if that's the case

1036
00:37:07,359 --> 00:37:10,960
and it happened with a couple of my

1037
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:12,960
players who said oh i've watched this

1038
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,680
thing and i've gone yeah don't but you

1039
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,200
know that ain't me so

1040
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,640
you know temper your expectations

1041
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,640
because it's gonna be a different game

1042
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,560
it's a it's a little bit like watching

1043
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,400
professional football on the telly

1044
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,720
versus having a knock about with the

1045
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:29,280
kids and the park on the sunday

1046
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:31,839
you know i'm i'm never going to do

1047
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:34,160
bicycle kicks and goodness knows what in

1048
00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:37,040
the box because you know

1049
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,720
i'm 50 years old yeah i think i i think

1050
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,599
that's a really interesting and maybe

1051
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:44,640
that's a wider that's not just critical

1052
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:46,640
role maybe that's a that's a instagram

1053
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,680
tick tock um

1054
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,680
thing maybe you know because i've got

1055
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,359
i've got kids and

1056
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,359
um you know they're all

1057
00:37:53,359 --> 00:37:57,040
wanting to do on their bikes they all

1058
00:37:55,359 --> 00:37:58,960
want to be able to do massive long

1059
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,560
wheelies or massive very big jumps and

1060
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,599
all that kind of stuff you know when i

1061
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,040
was a kid

1062
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:07,520
a long time ago um i was happy if my

1063
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,599
bike got me from a to b without

1064
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:12,880
anything happening

1065
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:15,520
particularly you know not falling off um

1066
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:18,000
was you know it was good enough for me

1067
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,000
um whereas now uh

1068
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,320
i'd lose count the amount of times i've

1069
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,400
fixed the kids bikes because they want

1070
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,400
to do bunny hops they want you know they

1071
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,880
they can't go over a speed bump without

1072
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:32,160
trying to bunny hop over it or wheelie

1073
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:34,000
over it or jump off um curbs and you

1074
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:37,760
know it's all because they've seen all

1075
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:40,079
the the mountain bikers and yes it's

1076
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,960
seeing other people do stuff is so much

1077
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:42,800
more

1078
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,720
available nowadays

1079
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,440
than actually that almost that joy of

1080
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:49,839
discovering it yourself has gone

1081
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,520
yeah yeah it's a bit bittersweet isn't

1082
00:38:49,839 --> 00:38:53,440
it yes particularly because we're

1083
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,119
talking about podcasts which is

1084
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,960
literally about watching and hearing

1085
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:58,720
other people do something

1086
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,119
i think to let's

1087
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:03,839
let me make it not just another daniel

1088
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:05,040
bash's critical role um so there's a

1089
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:08,720
there's another

1090
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,560
pretty much my own lee podcast that i

1091
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:13,200
the only podcast that i listen to is

1092
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,440
called not another d podcast or nadpod

1093
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,920
for sure which is done

1094
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,480
it's american b there's only three

1095
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,800
players and it's they're all from

1096
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,079
konashima background

1097
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,720
and

1098
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:28,720
that is kind of very

1099
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,320
i guess uh

1100
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:33,040
not very rules

1101
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,800
strict it's very you know soft touch

1102
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:38,560
it's a lot more improvisational it's a

1103
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:41,200
lot more of a improv comedy podcast

1104
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:44,320
with some d d stuff to help it move

1105
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,520
along and my point being is that it can

1106
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,960
also set

1107
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,720
a very different

1108
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,160
perception of the game you know if that

1109
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,680
was somebody's first

1110
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,359
impression of you know maybe they've

1111
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,880
come from collegehumor or the other work

1112
00:39:53,359 --> 00:39:56,400
the other guys do on the podcast and

1113
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,640
have come to that and i've gone oh well

1114
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,920
this is d is it where

1115
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,400
you

1116
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:03,920
you know the way they play of

1117
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,520
mate telling jokes and maybe there's

1118
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,920
only a couple of roles a session and the

1119
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,960
rules are very loosey-goosey in some

1120
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,319
places and then they start to play and

1121
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,000
you come at it from that direction it

1122
00:40:12,319 --> 00:40:14,880
can be again a very different experience

1123
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,480
so

1124
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,079
it's not all matthew mercer's fault i

1125
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,800
suppose

1126
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:22,839
no of course i i you know i i completely

1127
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:26,000
i completely agree

1128
00:40:22,839 --> 00:40:28,160
um yeah i i think it's it's just

1129
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,480
difficult it's not you can't you can't

1130
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,960
base your play style on

1131
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,440
anybody else and i think players

1132
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,280
players probably understand that and you

1133
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,400
know as i think you said earlier it's a

1134
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,599
self-imposed

1135
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,760
um

1136
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:43,440
thing you know i'm i don't want to let

1137
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,280
my players down i want them to think

1138
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,880
that that this is cool but you know what

1139
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,400
i can't remember every single uh rule i

1140
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,280
have to look things up i can't quite

1141
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,359
remember you know so you know i have a i

1142
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,640
have a running list of what do we do

1143
00:40:55,359 --> 00:40:58,319
about that you know what i don't know

1144
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,119
but i'm going to say for this one just

1145
00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:03,280
give me a exactly blah blah check and

1146
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:04,880
then i'll um i'll look it up or if you

1147
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,280
if maybe if you need to do it again i'll

1148
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,599
look it up then but you know just for

1149
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,599
today let's just say do an athletics

1150
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:13,280
check yep there's such an elegant

1151
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:15,599
solution and again it's one of those

1152
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,000
things it's like duh it's of course it's

1153
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:20,560
the answer but it's that thing of

1154
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,520
let me look and run with it today if i

1155
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,599
was

1156
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,119
grossly wrong then

1157
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:27,040
if full disclosure players will change

1158
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:29,040
it going forward and wreck on it to a

1159
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,640
certain extent if it kind of worked and

1160
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,839
it doesn't break the game then we'll do

1161
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,400
that going forward

1162
00:41:31,839 --> 00:41:36,960
and that's it that's such a such a small

1163
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,480
easy decision and it can be you know

1164
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,359
that question can be resolved at the

1165
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,480
table

1166
00:41:39,359 --> 00:41:42,079
like that

1167
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,160
yeah

1168
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:46,160
yeah we've just had we've just had that

1169
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:49,520
we're running through our our thursday

1170
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,800
night game um we're running through the

1171
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,240
against the

1172
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,760
uh the dragons um so tier matt and so

1173
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:58,880
we've we finished the first one the

1174
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:01,599
horde of the dragon queen i think it was

1175
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,079
uh we finished that and we are literally

1176
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:06,880
this last thursday just started the rise

1177
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:09,440
of tier map and our our dm first thing

1178
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,520
he said right was right so you're you're

1179
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,720
effectively level eight now do you want

1180
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:17,119
to re-do anything on your character so

1181
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:19,520
do you want to have gone back retconned

1182
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:21,200
taken a different so i'm a bard so

1183
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,800
taking a different college

1184
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,800
change some spells up that kind of stuff

1185
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,960
now i know some people would look at

1186
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,800
that and go you can't do that you could

1187
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,480
only change one spell in between levels

1188
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,480
and things like that but for us as a

1189
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,720
group that's the you know we learned a

1190
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,920
lot we fought the white dragon on top of

1191
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:41,359
the um the flying ice

1192
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:43,599
castle so do we need to put more damage

1193
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:46,319
output do we need to do this so let's

1194
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:48,480
work at it as a party and say how does

1195
00:42:46,319 --> 00:42:51,040
it work best for us and it's it's our

1196
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,319
game yeah for sure gotta work best for

1197
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,319
us

1198
00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:56,160
yeah i did something similar with my

1199
00:42:54,319 --> 00:42:58,640
with my players it was just a lot

1200
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,680
earlier on at level three i basically

1201
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,240
said

1202
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,000
okay you've had three levels now

1203
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:05,520
do you want to change literally anything

1204
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,480
and i'm happy to

1205
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,760
accommodate it and retcon because

1206
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,440
they're quite big decisions and if

1207
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,280
you're not happy with it then i'd rather

1208
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,880
we change now rather than use it through

1209
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,280
another 10 levels

1210
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,359
of unsatisfaction yes

1211
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,800
i think that's i think that's right

1212
00:43:19,359 --> 00:43:22,800
uh you said there about you know it's

1213
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,000
it's your game and

1214
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,440
you got to play it

1215
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,480
you know the way you want to play it do

1216
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,160
you think

1217
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,000
doing it for a podcast or a stream

1218
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,920
changes that mentality a little bit and

1219
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,079
you have to say it's not just our game

1220
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,520
anymore we have to consider the wider

1221
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:37,760
world and if so

1222
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,599
what considerations have to be made well

1223
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,880
that's a good question isn't it who who

1224
00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:42,240
owns your

1225
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,440
ip

1226
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:44,960
um

1227
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,440
i think it

1228
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:50,319
i think it does i think you

1229
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,560
you know you have to be more aware

1230
00:43:50,319 --> 00:43:54,319
certainly the guys uh you know i have

1231
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,800
every admiration for the guys that are

1232
00:43:54,319 --> 00:43:59,040
out there playing whilst streaming live

1233
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,560
and people are watching on twitch

1234
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,400
because i've had

1235
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,760
i've i've been listening to stuff and

1236
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,280
people saying

1237
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,200
you know i'll do this and then a couple

1238
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,040
of minutes you know and i'll think

1239
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,520
not sure you can do that you know i

1240
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,720
guess i'll cast this spell right hang on

1241
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,319
a sec i'm pretty sure that's got a

1242
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:16,480
casting time of a minute you're not

1243
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:18,720
going to do that in combat yeah but it

1244
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,040
doesn't matter um and then five minutes

1245
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:22,720
later somebody says in the twitch

1246
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,240
well you can't do you know push his

1247
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,119
glasses back on tonight you can't do

1248
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:26,480
that

1249
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:27,200
um it's like

1250
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,440
so

1251
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,440
it is their game as much as your game by

1252
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,680
by the very definition that you've

1253
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,200
opened your front door and said um you

1254
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,280
know have a look through our front door

1255
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,079
have a look through our windows yeah um

1256
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,440
and you know we are there kind of thing

1257
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:44,000
so yeah i'd

1258
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,839
i'd it's a really good question and on

1259
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,040
the fly i'm not sure

1260
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:50,000
because

1261
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:52,319
because yes so so let let's take that

1262
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,880
you can't do that it's a minute spell

1263
00:44:52,319 --> 00:44:56,960
you know moment of being corrected oh

1264
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,720
yeah okay um

1265
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,920
against then the next time you want to

1266
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:02,079
do it well i'll do that and always

1267
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,200
getting it wrong

1268
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:05,599
i don't know

1269
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,040
um but yes you you are opening your

1270
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:09,599
doors and you are if you're inviting

1271
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:12,000
people in then i think you almost have a

1272
00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:14,560
you have an obligation to your audience

1273
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:17,040
as much as anything mm-hmm right

1274
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,119
yeah it's it's i'm sorry for putting you

1275
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,599
on the spot now no no no i'm grinning

1276
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:23,119
but i'm sorry here

1277
00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:25,119
but it is one of those things that's

1278
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:27,200
like yes it's your game and yes you

1279
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:29,760
should run it how you want and just

1280
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,119
enable other people to view it but also

1281
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,560
in the same way

1282
00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:33,760
that you can't have your cake and eat it

1283
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,440
right you've got to open that front door

1284
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,200
and allow people to say oh i don't like

1285
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,760
the curtains you've got in your house as

1286
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:42,560
in they can provide feedback and

1287
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,599
criticism which kind of implies then

1288
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,520
that maybe

1289
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:47,359
as you said you've got a responsibility

1290
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,440
to a certain extent to

1291
00:45:47,359 --> 00:45:52,079
a accept that criticism and b

1292
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,040
potentially act on it if it's legitimate

1293
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:55,040
yes

1294
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,760
absolutely if you're going to if you're

1295
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,200
going to say we've got xp you know we've

1296
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,079
got x number of people listening

1297
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,920
watching if that's something that's

1298
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:06,000
a factor a feature

1299
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,680
that you're sharing then yeah you've

1300
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,040
opened your

1301
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,880
you've opened your front door you've

1302
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,480
opened your shopping

1303
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,359
shop window

1304
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,720
and you're you are selling to somebody

1305
00:46:15,359 --> 00:46:18,560
regardless of whether that's not

1306
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:22,400
important to you you know whether you've

1307
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:24,160
got one one watcher or 500 watchers

1308
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,280
you're still opening and saying you know

1309
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,200
watch us

1310
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,079
watch us play this game yeah you know

1311
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:32,160
they are they are an audience mm-hmm

1312
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:34,240
yeah and i've i've had no real negative

1313
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,560
feedback so i just have to assume my

1314
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:39,359
podcast is perfect so uh yeah or

1315
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,359
nobody's listening

1316
00:46:40,319 --> 00:46:44,960
all right we're ending the show there

1317
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,960
today uh thanks for coming

1318
00:46:46,319 --> 00:46:48,800
sorry mate

1319
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,839
so um

1320
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:56,800
so i touched it earlier about

1321
00:46:53,839 --> 00:46:59,440
different types of actual plays or real

1322
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,280
plays of there's more

1323
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,880
improv versus

1324
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:07,839
planned versus serious and more jokey

1325
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,599
kind of ones so i think it's safe to say

1326
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:11,839
because they've admitted it themselves

1327
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:13,520
that crit coral is

1328
00:47:11,839 --> 00:47:16,720
not scripted but

1329
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:18,400
has more railroady parts because just

1330
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,680
like we've just been saying they

1331
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,520
appreciate that they've got a story to

1332
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,880
tell and it isn't just for them anymore

1333
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,319
so they've said

1334
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,160
you know i think matt said in the past

1335
00:47:24,319 --> 00:47:27,839
that he might approach a couple of the

1336
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,440
players ahead of the time and say this

1337
00:47:27,839 --> 00:47:31,280
is what i've got planned

1338
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,200
you might want to think about how you're

1339
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,359
going to play at the table kind of thing

1340
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:38,160
just so that it's not a mess when they

1341
00:47:35,359 --> 00:47:40,559
come to record it versus something like

1342
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,559
well i'm sure nad pod do it but

1343
00:47:40,559 --> 00:47:44,880
more improvisational games where it's

1344
00:47:42,559 --> 00:47:47,040
just uh yeah where it's just uh let's

1345
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:50,319
make things up on the spot i don't know

1346
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:53,599
what do you prefer and also in the same

1347
00:47:50,319 --> 00:47:56,800
breadth more serious you know

1348
00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:58,319
heavy emotional beats versus goofy

1349
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,559
we're just mucking around what do you

1350
00:47:58,319 --> 00:48:02,960
prefer do you think any uh podcasts are

1351
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:05,359
more suited to a certain kind i don't

1352
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,359
know what your thoughts on that one yeah

1353
00:48:05,359 --> 00:48:09,040
so i i i think

1354
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:10,000
that's again that's another really good

1355
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,480
question

1356
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:15,440
um i think i am more

1357
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:17,599
emotionally drawn to the

1358
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,079
keeping it real

1359
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:23,599
type of podcasts so the ones that i tend

1360
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:26,079
to gravitate towards are the ones that

1361
00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:27,359
play the same sort of game that i play

1362
00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:29,760
with my friends

1363
00:48:27,359 --> 00:48:32,240
which you know which

1364
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,559
um i'm i'm quite happy

1365
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,920
with a bit of railroading obviously by

1366
00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:39,760
definition in fact you know we all live

1367
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:41,760
busy lives these days i sadly don't have

1368
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:44,480
hours and hours to spend

1369
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:46,400
writing modules or writing adventures as

1370
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:49,280
much as i'd love to and and lord are my

1371
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,359
friends um so we tend to play stuff

1372
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,240
that's bought i'm running the lads

1373
00:48:51,359 --> 00:48:55,359
through tales from the yawning portal

1374
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:56,640
at the moment

1375
00:48:55,359 --> 00:48:59,680
and

1376
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:01,839
i kind of have to railroad them because

1377
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,240
if they go off on a tangent i've got

1378
00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:05,040
nothing prepped i don't have the time

1379
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:06,720
and

1380
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,680
i don't i don't want to do a sub

1381
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:12,160
standard you know yeah um you just

1382
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,240
waffle waffle waffle kind of

1383
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,720
just random nonsense just for the sake

1384
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:18,960
of it yeah yeah exactly you know yes

1385
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:19,920
you've got some you could random um

1386
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,400
generate

1387
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,400
dungeons and goodness says what um but

1388
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:28,000
it doesn't make for a good story

1389
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:31,200
so i tend to keep them on track

1390
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:34,559
a little bit uh and i know my dm

1391
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:36,400
did that a reasonable amount through um

1392
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:38,079
horde of the dragon queen

1393
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,240
because because you've got a book that

1394
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:41,680
you've invested some money in and you've

1395
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:43,599
invested some

1396
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,280
time and you know

1397
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:47,920
emotion into

1398
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:50,480
we we're going to tell that story

1399
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,119
together effectively so i tend to i tend

1400
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,079
to be quite happy with a little bit of

1401
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:56,400
um

1402
00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:59,680
a bit of railroading i don't

1403
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:02,480
you know i don't have any objections to

1404
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:04,240
um you know you you go down the road um

1405
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,319
it forks left and right

1406
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:07,839
left takes you off to somewhere that i

1407
00:50:06,319 --> 00:50:09,599
haven't designed yet right takes you to

1408
00:50:07,839 --> 00:50:11,599
the bit that i've done you know and if

1409
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:14,559
we go the wrong way just swap it around

1410
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:17,040
i don't yeah i don't mind

1411
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:19,040
i have having having said that i don't

1412
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:22,079
like to feel that i'm

1413
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:24,240
i have no control as a player so i can

1414
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,359
remember once a long time ago

1415
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,960
getting

1416
00:50:25,359 --> 00:50:29,760
a really good

1417
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,200
critical hit in against

1418
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,520
against a

1419
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:35,599
key npc

1420
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:38,240
when we'd damaged her quite a lot and

1421
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:40,960
there was no doubt in my mind that that

1422
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:42,720
critical would have killed her yeah um

1423
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,800
you know i think we were playing some of

1424
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:46,240
the slightly alternative

1425
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,160
rules around

1426
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:49,280
constitution i can't quite remember how

1427
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,280
we did it but

1428
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,800
like rather than doing hit point damage

1429
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,599
you have

1430
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,240
sort of

1431
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:57,680
the ability to i hit dice damage or

1432
00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:59,200
something back then i think that was a

1433
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,400
that was an option back in three or

1434
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,760
three point five

1435
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:05,119
um or four i can't remember um but i was

1436
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,880
of no

1437
00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:09,599
doubt that it would kill her and her

1438
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:13,280
response was obviously the dm wanted to

1439
00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:15,520
keep her alive for later on was to

1440
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,599
disengage from combat and run away i was

1441
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,359
like well i'll fire an arrow uh well you

1442
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:21,520
can't see where she went but hang on a

1443
00:51:19,359 --> 00:51:23,200
sec you know i'm in the woods

1444
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,280
explain to me how somebody running away

1445
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:27,440
from me i can't see where they've gone

1446
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,800
immediately you know it's it that that

1447
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,920
was

1448
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:34,240
being railroaded to that level was this

1449
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:36,800
disconcerting and um

1450
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:39,359
so it's quite a long lot of words to say

1451
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:42,319
um i'm fairly happy to go with the flow

1452
00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:43,520
really yeah i do tend to prefer the the

1453
00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:45,359
fun

1454
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,200
not taking it too seriously i like i

1455
00:51:45,359 --> 00:51:49,440
like has to take it

1456
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:52,079
fairly serious so i have sort of table

1457
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,920
rules that i like to abide by you know

1458
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:55,839
when the dm says right it's your turn i

1459
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,839
like people to be ready i like you to

1460
00:51:55,839 --> 00:51:58,800
know what it is you're going to do

1461
00:51:57,839 --> 00:52:02,559
you know

1462
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:04,160
it frustrates me as a dm if i say to

1463
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:06,240
particularly one of the lads who tends

1464
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,839
you know they tend to be a little bit

1465
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:09,599
less focused

1466
00:52:07,839 --> 00:52:12,240
um right it's your go

1467
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:14,000
all right what what can i do again

1468
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:16,079
so it's like

1469
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,520
you can plan your go that's a great

1470
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:20,800
thing to do

1471
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:23,920
um so yeah yeah you know i've very

1472
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,760
similar in you know mix of of both and

1473
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,680
every so often i'm a heavy

1474
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,240
moment but then there's a lot of

1475
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,160
whimsical stuff in between to keep it

1476
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:33,680
light-hearted but yeah also i've given

1477
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,680
my players a soft automation over the

1478
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,040
christmas period to say get your stuff

1479
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,280
together because

1480
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,359
you know if you don't have your turn

1481
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,800
ready then you'll take your dodge action

1482
00:52:41,359 --> 00:52:44,640
then i'll move on because we don't have

1483
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,880
time anymore to wait

1484
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,559
50 sessions in know your stuff

1485
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,480
or take the dodge action that's

1486
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:51,920
basically i really like that yeah if you

1487
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,319
if you're not ready to do something just

1488
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,200
dodge yeah yeah there's a there's a lot

1489
00:52:54,319 --> 00:52:56,640
i'm not

1490
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,079
i'm not about to kick him out the game

1491
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,319
and say you know you've got half a

1492
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:01,920
second to decide there's a window but if

1493
00:53:00,319 --> 00:53:03,359
they're still like oh

1494
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,040
maybe i should do this maybe we should

1495
00:53:03,359 --> 00:53:06,240
do that then i'll just go okay you've

1496
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,240
taken the dodge action because you've

1497
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:10,880
run out of time in your turn sorry move

1498
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:12,960
on yeah no i like that and i

1499
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,240
i think it's i i think it's fairly safe

1500
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,000
to tell you to tell you this because i

1501
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:17,839
don't think the guys will

1502
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,119
so the lads i teach on a friday i don't

1503
00:53:17,839 --> 00:53:21,359
think they'll be listening but one of

1504
00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:24,000
them on friday tried to

1505
00:53:21,359 --> 00:53:26,240
um he's playing a warlock and he tried

1506
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:28,160
to cast a spell and i said hang on i'm

1507
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:30,000
pretty sure that that's not a warlock

1508
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:32,079
spell if you look to that no that's not

1509
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,400
a warlock spell you don't know right oh

1510
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:37,839
isn't it of course this is still instead

1511
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:40,400
yeah no that's clear expose as well

1512
00:53:37,839 --> 00:53:43,680
so so know you know your

1513
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,280
character he he wanted to play a fighter

1514
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,839
yep and then

1515
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,040
whimsically just as we're rolling at

1516
00:53:47,839 --> 00:53:50,000
character says oh i'm going to be a

1517
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,040
warlock

1518
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:55,280
okay that's fine learn your character

1519
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,400
because i'm not go you know i'm not

1520
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,079
going to tell you

1521
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,280
what to do

1522
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:01,280
you know i'll give you a little bit of

1523
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:04,480
advice because you're you're all new to

1524
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:07,520
it but i'm not playing against myself no

1525
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,800
and one thing that you can be sure of is

1526
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:11,359
if you do

1527
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,559
the royal you ever make a podcast or a

1528
00:54:11,359 --> 00:54:14,240
stream and if you don't know your

1529
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:15,760
character then you can bet the people

1530
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:17,520
that listen definitely will and are

1531
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,079
going to let you know that they know

1532
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,319
oh absolutely you know absolutely if

1533
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:25,200
you're you know if you're playing a bard

1534
00:54:22,319 --> 00:54:27,599
and um you know you're toe to toe and

1535
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,839
you're not casting vicious mockery and

1536
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:30,880
things like that people are going to say

1537
00:54:29,839 --> 00:54:32,160
what are you doing why aren't you

1538
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,720
playing fighter

1539
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:36,799
quite right though yeah yeah it's that

1540
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:40,480
opening the door to

1541
00:54:36,799 --> 00:54:42,240
feedback is the nice way to put it

1542
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,680
feedback is a gift

1543
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:45,040
so we've talked about

1544
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:48,480
real place

1545
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:50,400
of which i happen to be part of one uh

1546
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,599
dungeons dice and dudes that is very

1547
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,359
much a

1548
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:55,200
the dm has said

1549
00:54:53,359 --> 00:54:56,720
he wants it still to be us mates playing

1550
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,280
first and then

1551
00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:01,920
the second is that it's a podcast so

1552
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,280
that is very much what you were alluding

1553
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,880
to earlier on with at the moment it's

1554
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:08,400
still very much full of

1555
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:10,240
you know in jokes and memes and

1556
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,160
just five guys

1557
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:14,240
playing dice uh and

1558
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,760
playing dice playing dungeons dragons

1559
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:17,839
with dice

1560
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:20,319
so that is

1561
00:55:17,839 --> 00:55:22,240
interesting and admittedly i haven't as

1562
00:55:20,319 --> 00:55:24,880
a player had to change

1563
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:27,680
too much around how i would

1564
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:30,160
normally play i know that over the

1565
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:32,319
christmas period we moved to

1566
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:35,040
streaming and

1567
00:55:32,319 --> 00:55:39,440
what i can say is that the dm was

1568
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:42,400
i i do not envy him at all a it's

1569
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:44,160
difficult enough damning remotely just

1570
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:47,520
trying to get you know

1571
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:49,440
just like herding cats sometimes so yeah

1572
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,280
i'm trying to do that regular technical

1573
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,280
difficulties is everyone on discord yes

1574
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,280
is everyone on the you know role 20 no

1575
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,359
why can't you oh i can't my camera's not

1576
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,839
working okay right you know just just

1577
00:55:57,359 --> 00:56:01,520
trying to sort that out plus

1578
00:55:59,839 --> 00:56:02,720
regular twitch

1579
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,559
malarkey

1580
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:06,880
stuff just trying to arrange all that

1581
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:09,280
plus music plus recording

1582
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,550
yeah i was like yeah i'm really happy to

1583
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,079
just be a player right now

1584
00:56:10,550 --> 00:56:15,359
[Laughter]

1585
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:17,760
yes yeah if it gets to be um more than a

1586
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:19,760
your normal day job um in terms of

1587
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,280
complexity

1588
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,720
yeah he was like i'm looking forward to

1589
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,240
just going back to her podcasts and

1590
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:26,000
playing in person because then it's just

1591
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:26,960
a microphone slammed in the middle of

1592
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:27,760
the table

1593
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,960
and

1594
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,400
he's happy

1595
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,319
so there's there's obviously we've

1596
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:35,520
talked about real plays

1597
00:56:32,319 --> 00:56:37,440
but there is a subset of which we find

1598
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,680
ourselves recording for now

1599
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:42,160
which i've dubbed kind of alternative

1600
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:45,200
discussion shows uh and by alternative i

1601
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:47,040
mean as an alternative to actual plays

1602
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,440
so i don't know if you

1603
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:52,160
listen to any like this there are a few

1604
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,079
i didn't think there were many but since

1605
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:57,599
dipping my toe in the social media

1606
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:58,400
network of twitter and stuff more have

1607
00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:00,160
become

1608
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,559
known to me so i don't know if you

1609
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,079
listen to any or have thoughts on these

1610
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:04,960
kind of meta

1611
00:57:04,079 --> 00:57:07,680
shows

1612
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:09,440
yeah so i think i i think they've

1613
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,680
definitely got a place i think it's

1614
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,839
important that there are um there are

1615
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:17,040
other shows out there you know it isn't

1616
00:57:13,839 --> 00:57:19,280
just about playing the game it's about

1617
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,119
you know understanding the game and and

1618
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,880
understanding all the other bits um and

1619
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:25,119
one of the main ones that i listen to is

1620
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:27,040
the dads and dragons show i don't know

1621
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:29,680
if you've come across that they did a

1622
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:32,880
real play bit over christmas but the

1623
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:35,119
majority of their show is more sort of

1624
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,599
digging into the rules so they've done

1625
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:40,400
like an overview of all the character

1626
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:43,040
classes and what sort of role the

1627
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,880
characters fit into and how do you can

1628
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,920
you tank with this and

1629
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:49,280
any dps or dpr with that

1630
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,520
and i think i think yeah you're

1631
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,720
absolutely right there is definitely a

1632
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,599
market

1633
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:57,200
out there for that kind of thing um

1634
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:58,799
just just listening

1635
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,079
you know it doesn't have to be playing

1636
00:57:58,799 --> 00:58:02,079
all the time

1637
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:04,960
i i can get just as much enjoyment out

1638
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:07,040
of listening to somebody else just talk

1639
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:10,000
about their experience of

1640
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:12,799
playing a rogue or or playing a warlock

1641
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:14,799
i've never played a sorcerer for example

1642
00:58:12,799 --> 00:58:16,799
not tried it um

1643
00:58:14,799 --> 00:58:18,480
probably won't try it not not because

1644
00:58:16,799 --> 00:58:21,520
i've got anything against it

1645
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:23,359
there's other classes i want to play um

1646
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,440
but listening to someone else talk about

1647
00:58:23,359 --> 00:58:27,680
it um you know

1648
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,599
like that well that's interesting i i

1649
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,839
listened to other people talking about

1650
00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:34,240
playing bards i thought i'll give that a

1651
00:58:31,839 --> 00:58:35,920
go and actually you know it's a it's the

1652
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,280
most fun character class i've ever

1653
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,680
played

1654
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:42,240
and i got that from listening to other

1655
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,680
people talking about playing bards and

1656
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,480
you know they're not just

1657
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,559
bad so not just a pretty face

1658
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,480
yes so yeah i think i think there's

1659
00:58:48,559 --> 00:58:52,799
definitely a

1660
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,880
there's an audience for that and

1661
00:58:52,799 --> 00:58:59,200
you know i if i ever i think this is how

1662
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:01,760
we got um together in terms of this was

1663
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:04,799
you know i i had previously said

1664
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:06,720
if i did a podcast where i just

1665
00:59:04,799 --> 00:59:09,359
chatted about the indie with somebody

1666
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:11,920
would you listen um and quite a number

1667
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:13,119
of people said oh yeah i would um so you

1668
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,640
know you never know that there might be

1669
00:59:13,119 --> 00:59:17,040
another one of those on the market soon

1670
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:19,839
oh well if you ever need any guests

1671
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,839
absolutely

1672
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,760
uh so i don't know if there's anything

1673
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:28,079
else you wanted to talk about

1674
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:30,400
um no not particularly um

1675
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:32,799
you know outside of the i suppose the

1676
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,000
only thing outside of this or the the

1677
00:59:32,799 --> 00:59:37,119
dnd

1678
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,960
um world of podcasts you know there are

1679
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:41,280
there are some actually some really good

1680
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,359
stuff out there it's almost a case of if

1681
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:45,680
you want to find out anything

1682
00:59:43,359 --> 00:59:46,720
just hit up a podcast i've i've listened

1683
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,160
to some

1684
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,240
um i don't know if you've come across

1685
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:53,040
the the bellingcat stuff that they've

1686
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:55,119
done um but if you oh if you like a good

1687
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:58,160
debunking of conspiracy theories style

1688
00:59:55,119 --> 01:00:00,960
of podcast then uh definitely give them

1689
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:03,920
a go and and also some um

1690
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:06,160
real story stuff i listened to one about

1691
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:08,640
uh a tunnel

1692
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:10,640
called tunnel 29 it was on the bbc that

1693
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,760
was absolutely brilliant that got me

1694
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,480
through some

1695
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:16,960
long journeys to work and stuff that was

1696
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:20,079
all about a guy that uh so after the

1697
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:22,319
wall went up he escaped from east to

1698
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:24,000
west berlin and

1699
01:00:22,319 --> 01:00:26,799
literally the first thing he did was

1700
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,640
once he escaped from east to west was

1701
01:00:26,799 --> 01:00:30,799
then to tunnel back

1702
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,680
to get a load more people out

1703
01:00:30,799 --> 01:00:34,079
and

1704
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:37,040
you know listening to his life story

1705
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:38,799
just you know remarkable stuff so so

1706
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,799
yeah don't don't just

1707
01:00:38,799 --> 01:00:44,079
focus on the indie podcast because you

1708
01:00:40,799 --> 01:00:46,079
can get ex in you can get ideas

1709
01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:48,480
from anything you know that whole idea

1710
01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:51,119
of tunneling tunneling in breaking

1711
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:54,720
people out of um a locked down city you

1712
01:00:51,119 --> 01:00:56,640
could use that yeah in d almost without

1713
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,599
changing it you could just use the whole

1714
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,799
story

1715
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:00,880
yeah that's going to say there's a lot

1716
01:00:58,799 --> 01:01:02,880
of room for inspiration even with the

1717
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,599
conspiracy theorists one what's better

1718
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:09,040
for your d d campaign than some

1719
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:12,240
crazy conspiracy theorists cultists

1720
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:14,000
yeah absolutely yeah absolutely

1721
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,480
cool okay so

1722
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:19,520
the only thing i wanted to

1723
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,880
my my final thought is that one thing i

1724
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:23,680
found while

1725
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:26,160
doing this particular podcast is

1726
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:27,760
sometimes it can feel like

1727
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:29,520
you know

1728
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,680
a drop in the ocean

1729
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:36,559
a bit and it's

1730
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:38,000
i'm usually quite self-confident and uh

1731
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:40,240
you know more so than a lot of my

1732
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:43,119
friends just but based on what i wear

1733
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,480
half the time will tell you

1734
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:48,240
i don't really care

1735
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:50,319
uh but one thing that surprised me was

1736
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,880
you know just just having the motivation

1737
01:01:50,319 --> 01:01:54,079
sometimes to be like

1738
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,480
should i keep going should i keep

1739
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:59,440
recording should i keep editing

1740
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:01,359
uh so it's you know again i i guess it's

1741
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,760
a personal thank you to yourself for for

1742
01:02:01,359 --> 01:02:04,799
joining me on this journey and

1743
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,559
for

1744
01:02:04,799 --> 01:02:09,359
you know inspiring and

1745
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:11,200
giving the me the motivation to say

1746
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:12,079
you know at least i care enough to be on

1747
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,760
so

1748
01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:15,359
then i keep keep on trucking so i guess

1749
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,599
what i'm getting at is

1750
01:02:15,359 --> 01:02:18,640
that having that self-confidence and the

1751
01:02:17,599 --> 01:02:21,680
thought to

1752
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:23,520
is this worthwhile that's a human a

1753
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,880
human experience and you're not the only

1754
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:27,359
one if anyone's ever listening and

1755
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,160
thinking is it worthwhile the answer is

1756
01:02:27,359 --> 01:02:29,280
well

1757
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,400
just do it

1758
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,480
and

1759
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:35,039
i'm sure it'll be great

1760
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:37,359
yeah no i i i get that and i know we you

1761
01:02:35,039 --> 01:02:39,440
know we joked earlier about um about

1762
01:02:37,359 --> 01:02:41,440
well hey maybe no one's listening

1763
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,839
and you know what if no one's listening

1764
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,440
we've still had fun and it's i think

1765
01:02:43,839 --> 01:02:46,720
it's

1766
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,440
it's one of those things isn't it you

1767
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:52,160
don't necessarily do a podcast for

1768
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,599
listen accounts or you know i've got 800

1769
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,039
people listening or a thousand people

1770
01:02:53,599 --> 01:02:57,760
listening or

1771
01:02:55,039 --> 01:02:59,839
four people listening and if it is four

1772
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:02,000
people listening um and one of them is

1773
01:02:59,839 --> 01:03:04,240
your mum or something does does that

1774
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,200
really matter and i don't think it does

1775
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,200
so

1776
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,960
i would echo that sentiment if you're

1777
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,599
out there thinking maybe i should do a

1778
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:14,079
podcast or i fancy doing a podcast but

1779
01:03:11,599 --> 01:03:16,559
you know who's who wants to listen to me

1780
01:03:14,079 --> 01:03:18,400
um even if it's just one other person

1781
01:03:16,559 --> 01:03:20,319
then then you're providing something

1782
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:22,480
that someone wants to listen to you know

1783
01:03:20,319 --> 01:03:24,079
and it's a big old world out there even

1784
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,200
even the big guys when they're getting a

1785
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:27,119
million

1786
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,799
um a million listeners

1787
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:30,400
i don't know how many critical role get

1788
01:03:28,799 --> 01:03:32,240
but let's assume they get

1789
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,480
a million listeners you know we're a

1790
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,079
planet of seven billion people even the

1791
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,520
big guys are only getting a drop in the

1792
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:40,000
ocean

1793
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:42,720
good thank you for that we've i've ended

1794
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:45,440
on a really nice wholesome comment yeah

1795
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:48,160
give it a go yep cool all right well

1796
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,839
thank you ever so much for coming on is

1797
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,880
there anything you want to

1798
01:03:49,839 --> 01:03:52,799
plug

1799
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:56,880
well i mean the only thing i i would

1800
01:03:52,799 --> 01:04:01,599
always plug um i produce dnd journals um

1801
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:03,520
i have a small website uh mike hdnd dot

1802
01:04:01,599 --> 01:04:05,680
card dot co

1803
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:08,640
um it's my pinned tweet so go and have a

1804
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:10,799
look there are bespoke journals aligned

1805
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:13,760
to each of your individual character

1806
01:04:10,799 --> 01:04:15,599
classes lots of space for all manner of

1807
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,359
bits and bobs go and have a look i

1808
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:18,640
actually think they're really cool i'm

1809
01:04:17,359 --> 01:04:19,839
just trying to convince everybody else

1810
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,440
that they are

1811
01:04:19,839 --> 01:04:22,880
well actually thank you for reminding me

1812
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:25,039
because now's a good time to tell you

1813
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:27,280
that i've got one winging its way to me

1814
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:29,200
courtesy of royal mail as we speak oh

1815
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:31,760
fabulous not a paid promotion or

1816
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:34,640
anything just for full disclosure

1817
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:36,640
amazing i did some research before uh

1818
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:39,200
obviously the podcast and saw them and

1819
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:40,799
was like hey they're cool and uh i

1820
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,640
actually bought the wizard one because

1821
01:04:40,799 --> 01:04:44,640
in the dungeons dyson dude actual play

1822
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,640
podcast that i'm in i play a wizard so i

1823
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:49,039
thought hey i'm gonna i'm gonna grab one

1824
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:51,680
for that so um yeah that's that's in in

1825
01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:55,839
no way endorsed but a legitimate

1826
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,839
interest in my part it's a bible

1827
01:04:56,079 --> 01:05:01,039
um so yeah do do check them out because

1828
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:02,640
uh they do look very neat thank you and

1829
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:05,039
thanks for having me on the show i've

1830
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,400
really enjoyed it it's good i'm glad

1831
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:08,240
it's been a pleasure and it's always

1832
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:10,240
good to have different experiences and

1833
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,599
different points of view and i've it's

1834
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,760
been a pleasure listening to kind of

1835
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:15,839
your experience of not only in the past

1836
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:17,680
but also your experience

1837
01:05:15,839 --> 01:05:20,559
now at the table and

1838
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:22,319
how you approach listening and kind of

1839
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:24,160
things you look for so yeah it's been

1840
01:05:22,319 --> 01:05:26,240
been really useful thank you

1841
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,720
thank you to all listening at home if

1842
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:31,119
you have any thoughts or comments you

1843
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,880
can find me on twitter at download

1844
01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:35,119
underscore dnd

1845
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:37,150
otherwise thank you all for listening

1846
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:42,300
and good night

1847
01:05:37,150 --> 01:05:42,300
[Music]