Mystery

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welcome thinkers to season 4 episode 21

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of thinking critically as usual a couple

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of things up front number one please

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continue to listen to dungeons Dyson

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dudes where you can see me as a player

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the DND pod on all socials and twitch

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every Sunday we're either streaming live

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or rerunning the previous live stream

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and it's some of the most fun I've ever

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had so go and go and check it out Quinn

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is

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great otherwise the other big news is

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this is the last episode before my 12

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hour 12 plus hour charity stream for

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Naomi house and Jack's Place children's

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hospice here in the UK Friday the 24th

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of March starting at 10 A.M UK time I

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will be going through a series of

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challenges and forfeits trying to

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complete the new Resident Evil 4 remake

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which releases on the same day makes it

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easy to remember

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and trying to smash some donation goals

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I want to double last years so those who

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tuned in last year's were going bigger

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we're going louder we're going more

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painful so

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if you want to see me do a bunch of

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goofy stuff all in the aid of a great

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cause please do check out my twitch

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stream twitch.tv think crit DND as usual

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thanks for being the episode description

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but that's that's I'm I'm really looking

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forward to that I really want to make it

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a big deal so any support you can do

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would be greatly appreciated otherwise

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let's get on with the show

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foreign

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today I'm joined by Michael Ross

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from the RPG Academy thank you ever so

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much for joining us today Michael can

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you tell us a little bit about yourself

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oh of course I'm thrilled to be here

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thank you so much for having me on uh so

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yeah my name is Michael I am the host of

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the RPG Academy podcast we have been

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podcasting about role-playing games for

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going on 12 years

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we have a bunch of different types of

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shows from interviews with creators

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actual play content GM Theory discussion

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even some movie reviews and movie uh

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like deep Dives and how media can

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influence RPGs if if you like RPGs and

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podcasts we probably have a some sort of

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show that you would like awesome well

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thank you so much for joining us today

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from one podcaster to another

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today's topic is Mystery so what does

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that mean to you in the DND and wider

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dtrpg framework okay so I absolutely

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love mysteries just as a genre it's it's

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one of my favorite things to do in any

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sort of role-playing game is to do the

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the typical murder mystery and not all

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Mysteries have to be murder related but

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it happens a lot and I just really enjoy

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the aspects of trying to figure out how

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we can get a mystery and the solving of

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mysteries to be entertaining and

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engaging within the RPG or D and D

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framework and I know that a lot of

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people have said that d d isn't a good

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system for running Mysteries and there

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have been many systems designed

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specifically to try to tackle that sort

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of not quite fitting perfectly within

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the scheme of how the game works

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I have successfully ran Mysteries and I

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think it can be done within D but I

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think there's a bit of a framework

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understanding of hey we're playing this

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particular type of game and how we're

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doing it uh but I'm interested to hear

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your side as well um but I'll just say I

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love mysteries I'm excited to talk about

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them in big picture but it's really

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anything that can be discovered through

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play it doesn't have to be who killed

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this particular person it could be why

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is this happening why is it happening

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now what is the cause of this you know

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where do we need to go any sort of

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information that can be discovered

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through play role play dice play you

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know mechanics to me works as the

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fundamentals of a mystery but when it's

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a central theme to a particular session

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or section of a campaign I really really

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enjoy that type of play I'm glad you

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brought up that coming there people have

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said before that d d isn't maybe the

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best vehicle for that kind of stuff and

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yes something I've absolutely heard

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but what as with most things it just

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needs a little bit of consideration

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right a little bit of thoughts and you

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can make it work and the reason why I'm

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saying that is because there are

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there's the rule of three is is the one

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I'm gonna the obvious one I'm gonna

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start with there are very many tools and

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tricks and tips you can use to

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Aid in those sessions which aren't just

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I smashed the skeleton with my mace I

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cast viable move on to the next room

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right so let's talk about murder

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mysteries and seeing as you started with

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it and you seem that's one of your your

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preferred Avenues have I done that one

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no I don't think I have I think if I'm

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being brutally honest I've probably

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stayed away from like your typical

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Mysteries

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probably because of insecurity about how

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well I'll be able to pull it off yeah

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it is difficult again especially in d d

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because depending on what level you're

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playing there are so many ways and tools

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and abilities and be honest spells that

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can just destroy a murder mystery like

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if you know if you design a murder

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mystery and the player has a spell that

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lets them rewind and watch time they can

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see who did it or they have ability to

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speak to the Dead

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either the dead can't know who did it or

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it has to have some reason that it would

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then lie to you if the spell doesn't

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Force compulsion true telling so those

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are the I think some of the big

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considerations you have to be worried

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about is what level are you dealing with

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this mystery and what abilities do your

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characters have that maybe your players

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don't that would just solve the mystery

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and you just have to account for those

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things

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mm-hmm yeah which actually now you've

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explained it it's I was trying to think

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about the other pillars of d d and how

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combat takes it's a very similar thought

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process to combat in my head

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I've always kind of

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disassociated the social side of things

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the mystery side of things

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and combat have been two separate kind

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of thought processes trains of

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preparation

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have a what you've just described is

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very similar to what you have to do for

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when you're dealing with high level

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combat it's well the Mage has banishment

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so that will completely remove one of

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these creatures from the fight and the

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monk can run at balls or can

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you know we've got a really good range

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to persons that means the Flyers are now

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not really a threat anymore it's that

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same thought process now I'm thinking

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about it it's not actually too

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dissimilar I used to think they were

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very dissimilar but now we've kind of

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brought them together and it scratches

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that same kind of itch of how do I

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count for the player character abilities

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in such a ways to not diminish them but

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in in some respects you know enable them

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in some cases but I really love that

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why would the dead person if you ask

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them who did it lie that's such a great

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hook I feel like that's been a million

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UK British TV dramas of like why would

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the victim lie about whoever's committed

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a crime against them but that's that's

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such a good little twist right and I

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think part of it could be I mean it can

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and this is literally just off the top

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of the head so please forgive how

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rudimentary it would be but you know you

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could have something where you have like

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a noble person and I don't I don't know

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if there's things like Insurance in d d

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it's your game you do you but maybe it's

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a situation where

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um the person died was wealthy all their

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money will go to their family but maybe

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it was their spouse who killed them and

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that would invalidate that insurance

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claim so they would rather the murderer

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Go free because their families taken

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care of rather than get caught you know

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maybe it's like I have family like I

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have kids that I want to take care of so

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even though my spouse did it I still

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want my kids to have money so you could

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come up with some way that makes sense

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for them to to have a reason to lie and

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then maybe the mystery isn't how do we

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solve the mystery we already know that

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is how do we find a way to bring the

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person who did it to Justice while not

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invalidating the wishes of the deceased

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yeah brilliant well we're only like five

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minutes in and that's such a great I

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love that such a great setup I can only

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hope that unless at least one listener

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is gonna hear that and go the great I'm

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gonna try and bring that into my here if

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anyone takes anything else and saying

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use it please let me know because I

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sometimes feel like I'm talking into a

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void so I would love for someone to go

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even if something I said is like oh

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that's really dumb but the dumbness

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caused you to think of something smart

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tell me that too

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I know I know that pain that's the the

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pain of being online in 2023 is

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screaming into the void so yes

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absolutely

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so yeah I'm trying to just trying to

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think yeah so as mentioned I've never

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done any stereotypical Mysteries but the

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more I think about it the more so even

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things as trivial as like a quote

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unquote puzzle in a room or something is

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is a mystery in micro it's a microcosm

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of a mystery

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that there's something is the play The

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Players don't have all the pieces of the

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puzzle they don't have all the

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information to be able to push the

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button or turn the dials in the right

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way or get the sequence in the right

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order

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until they've worked to work something

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out so I guess the trainer thought there

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for both puzzle design and wider mystery

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design well I guess well here we go is a

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Mysteries the series of puzzles

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maybe it certainly could be

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um if you wanted to string them together

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I think for me one of the satisfying

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parts of a mystery and I kind of equate

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this a lot to movies if you've watched

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movies or you know shows about Mysteries

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is most of the time

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there is a trail that maybe even on a

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re-watch maybe you don't catch it in

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real time but maybe once you know the

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solution you go back and re-watch it

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you're like okay there were Clues when

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this happened and when this happened so

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it needs to be solvable by the players I

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think to be a truly satisfying mystery

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if they go through the entire adventure

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and at the end it's a character we've

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never met before a character who's never

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00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:20,040
been mentioned before sure that might

274
00:10:17,339 --> 00:10:21,959
qualify as a mystery if that's what

275
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,940
actually happened but that's not going

276
00:10:21,959 --> 00:10:26,820
to be very fun it's going to feel like a

277
00:10:23,940 --> 00:10:29,940
cheat in a way so there has to be some

278
00:10:26,820 --> 00:10:31,380
sort of pattern that upon review okay we

279
00:10:29,940 --> 00:10:33,000
learned that the the killer was

280
00:10:31,380 --> 00:10:34,440
left-handed we learned that the killer

281
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,640
was taller than the victim we learned

282
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,220
that the Killer

283
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,080
had recently been to the rock quarry

284
00:10:38,220 --> 00:10:41,880
then the killer needs to be a

285
00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,740
left-handed tall person who worked in

286
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,820
the Quarry or it's just not going to

287
00:10:43,740 --> 00:10:47,100
make sense

288
00:10:44,820 --> 00:10:49,200
yeah yeah the classic

289
00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:51,240
oh you never saw this coming because

290
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:55,019
it's actually somebody else from out of

291
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:58,260
town who just turned up for the day

292
00:10:55,019 --> 00:10:59,660
yeah no that that's uh classic 101 ways

293
00:10:58,260 --> 00:11:02,040
to disappoint your

294
00:10:59,660 --> 00:11:03,839
disappoint the players or the readers or

295
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,839
the the Watchers of whatever it is it's

296
00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:08,279
a completely Blindside them with I've

297
00:11:06,839 --> 00:11:09,899
had that feeling before when I've when

298
00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:11,940
I've watched stuff or played video games

299
00:11:09,899 --> 00:11:14,880
before I've been like how would I ever

300
00:11:11,940 --> 00:11:18,060
have got that right that feeling is is

301
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:20,339
like well you just wasted my time right

302
00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:21,720
because again it's not fun and and again

303
00:11:20,339 --> 00:11:24,779
I quite a lot of things to movies

304
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:27,779
because I'm also a big movie Watcher and

305
00:11:24,779 --> 00:11:29,820
sometimes it's easy to figure out who a

306
00:11:27,779 --> 00:11:31,980
killer is in a TV show

307
00:11:29,820 --> 00:11:34,140
because of the conceits of a TV show

308
00:11:31,980 --> 00:11:36,180
like if we see a cold open

309
00:11:34,140 --> 00:11:38,700
and there's a murder that happens in

310
00:11:36,180 --> 00:11:40,980
cold open but we do not see the face of

311
00:11:38,700 --> 00:11:43,200
the murderer then I guarantee that is

312
00:11:40,980 --> 00:11:44,399
someone that we meet in act one because

313
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,480
otherwise they would have showed us

314
00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:46,440
their face but they didn't show us their

315
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,700
face because it's going to be a

316
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,740
character that we follow throughout the

317
00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:51,240
entire show so then it's like okay well

318
00:11:49,740 --> 00:11:53,700
clearly it's that person like you can

319
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,380
solve the mystery so easy you you know

320
00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:56,760
keeping those sort of like tropes in

321
00:11:55,380 --> 00:11:59,040
mind you can play around with the

322
00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,140
structure of d d as well where you could

323
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,240
have a vision like one of the characters

324
00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:05,399
has a vision sent to them by a Divine

325
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,440
Source or a magic item and they see like

326
00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:09,720
a cold open of the murder but they don't

327
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,980
see the face of the person they're

328
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,779
probably going to assume it's someone

329
00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:14,940
that they know because that's why we

330
00:12:12,779 --> 00:12:17,579
didn't see their face so you can kind of

331
00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:19,860
like not manipulate but you can control

332
00:12:17,579 --> 00:12:23,040
an information Source back and forth to

333
00:12:19,860 --> 00:12:24,540
help you conceal or in some cases reveal

334
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,920
because you already mentioned the rule

335
00:12:24,540 --> 00:12:28,079
of three if anyone isn't familiar with

336
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,839
that basically you should lay at least

337
00:12:28,079 --> 00:12:31,800
three clues for every solution otherwise

338
00:12:30,839 --> 00:12:33,240
your players are going to miss them

339
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,160
because no matter how obvious you think

340
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,880
the solution is you your players are not

341
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:40,860
as on the same page you are yeah

342
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,500
I just got this image of my head now of

343
00:12:40,860 --> 00:12:46,560
the murderer being like it was me

344
00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:49,680
literally I did it nice like he's lying

345
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:51,540
wasn't him one clue didn't one Clue's

346
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:53,160
not enough yeah I mean you can have like

347
00:12:51,540 --> 00:12:55,260
the the homeless person or the

348
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,880
equivalent vagrant on the street who's

349
00:12:55,260 --> 00:12:58,860
like you know covered in whiskey and

350
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,660
he's like I did it I saw that it was me

351
00:12:58,860 --> 00:13:02,399
and then they dismissed them and then

352
00:13:00,660 --> 00:13:05,420
actually it was the bad person in

353
00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:08,579
Disguise the entire time mm-hmm

354
00:13:05,420 --> 00:13:09,899
yep yep what other than so now we're

355
00:13:08,579 --> 00:13:12,300
talking about the rule of three I want

356
00:13:09,899 --> 00:13:14,880
to look back to that using the Trope of

357
00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:17,459
like a murder mystery on on television

358
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,959
but outside of the rule of three then

359
00:13:17,459 --> 00:13:21,959
what other

360
00:13:18,959 --> 00:13:24,600
classic annual experience if you found

361
00:13:21,959 --> 00:13:26,700
or used those classic tips and tricks

362
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,800
and tools to be able to

363
00:13:26,700 --> 00:13:30,060
help ensure of course could never be

364
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,579
absolutely certain that it will be a

365
00:13:30,060 --> 00:13:34,440
success but help ensure that the players

366
00:13:32,579 --> 00:13:38,820
are going to have a rewarding time

367
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:40,519
so I have a couple actual guidelines and

368
00:13:38,820 --> 00:13:42,660
then I have the truth

369
00:13:40,519 --> 00:13:43,860
but the truth may feel bad to some

370
00:13:42,660 --> 00:13:46,260
people so I'm gonna cover that one last

371
00:13:43,860 --> 00:13:49,860
uh you need a red herring like that's

372
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:52,139
just classic murder mystery 101 there's

373
00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:55,560
going to be early evidence that appears

374
00:13:52,139 --> 00:13:57,600
to point directly at someone and then it

375
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:59,040
can't actually be that person and

376
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,420
usually you find out it's not that

377
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,519
person because when you go to confront

378
00:14:00,420 --> 00:14:04,500
that person they are also dead

379
00:14:02,519 --> 00:14:07,980
so you know you found three Clues

380
00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:09,420
clearly it's Lord Bernard he's got to be

381
00:14:07,980 --> 00:14:11,700
the murderer we're going to go to the

382
00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:14,040
manor confront him oh crap he's dead in

383
00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:15,839
the same exact method of murder as our

384
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,600
first victim apparently it wasn't though

385
00:14:15,839 --> 00:14:19,980
uh very classic murder mystery Trope

386
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,440
again if you're playing a session long

387
00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:24,240
enough to have that sort of misdirect I

388
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,680
highly encourage it I think there's a

389
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,200
Trope especially in role-playing games

390
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,820
like d d where you're like a ball or

391
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,800
there's some sort of party where

392
00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:34,800
everyone once the murder happens no one

393
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:37,620
can leave and the the game is going from

394
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,180
person to person trying to

395
00:14:37,620 --> 00:14:40,860
um get the information figure out who

396
00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:43,320
didn't like who who had motivation who

397
00:14:40,860 --> 00:14:45,300
had opportunity yeah and within the

398
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,220
confines of d d you're going to have

399
00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:48,779
players who are like well I have 37 plus

400
00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:50,880
Insight I'm just going to ask everyone

401
00:14:48,779 --> 00:14:51,899
directly did they murder the person and

402
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,940
then they're going to go to their dice

403
00:14:51,899 --> 00:14:56,579
that's the way d d works it's not very

404
00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:59,459
fun so what I would do there is I would

405
00:14:56,579 --> 00:15:01,199
use scaling difficulty levels

406
00:14:59,459 --> 00:15:02,579
so like if I'm just gonna walk right up

407
00:15:01,199 --> 00:15:05,100
and ask someone did you murder this

408
00:15:02,579 --> 00:15:07,500
person the DC on that might be like 35

409
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:08,699
which even in fifth edition high levels

410
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:10,920
that's a pretty high number to get to

411
00:15:08,699 --> 00:15:12,720
but if they have talked to at least

412
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,540
three other people

413
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,980
then it goes to 30 or to 25. if they've

414
00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:20,279
talked to five other people it goes from

415
00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:22,199
25 to 20 so mechanically I'm building in

416
00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:23,760
an incentive to you need to go to talk

417
00:15:22,199 --> 00:15:25,800
to everybody so we get these role play

418
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,440
scenes so the people who are just good

419
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,940
at that sort of investigative type

420
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,579
they're going to start putting Clues

421
00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:34,260
together that then modifies the roles so

422
00:15:32,579 --> 00:15:36,899
you're working with them together rather

423
00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:38,699
than two separate mechanisms you're

424
00:15:36,899 --> 00:15:40,500
working with the true role players and

425
00:15:38,699 --> 00:15:41,880
then the people who like to roll dice

426
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:43,740
which I think both are welcome at my

427
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,360
table uh but I like it when it Blends

428
00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:46,199
together but here's the truth of the

429
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240
matter

430
00:15:46,199 --> 00:15:49,620
a lot of times I will run Mysteries

431
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,600
where I don't actually know who the

432
00:15:49,620 --> 00:15:53,699
Killer is I will just start throwing out

433
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,899
random elements and then when they put

434
00:15:53,699 --> 00:15:56,720
together something that makes sense

435
00:15:54,899 --> 00:15:58,920
they're right

436
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:01,019
is that the bit that people aren't going

437
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,699
to like yeah so that's one of the DMS

438
00:16:01,019 --> 00:16:04,320
and the players but yeah sometimes

439
00:16:02,699 --> 00:16:05,820
that's how we run Mysteries as DMS

440
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,459
because because if you've watched a

441
00:16:05,820 --> 00:16:11,279
movie like Glass Onion or

442
00:16:08,459 --> 00:16:14,220
um what was the knives out or any you

443
00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:16,079
know her kill Perot those novels were

444
00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:17,880
written and Rewritten and edited and

445
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:20,339
Rewritten and re-edited before they ever

446
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:23,100
got published we are trying to tell a

447
00:16:20,339 --> 00:16:26,220
murder mystery in real time first draft

448
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:28,680
only we are going to screw up at least I

449
00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:30,839
am you you or the you know the the

450
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:33,060
general you audience might be better at

451
00:16:30,839 --> 00:16:35,160
it than I am probably are uh so

452
00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:36,899
sometimes not all the time especially if

453
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,220
I'm like I'm designing a session that's

454
00:16:36,899 --> 00:16:40,139
going to be a mystery I'm going to put

455
00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:42,839
the work in but if it sort of just kind

456
00:16:40,139 --> 00:16:44,459
of emerges in play I might just start

457
00:16:42,839 --> 00:16:45,600
going oh you know it definitely looks

458
00:16:44,459 --> 00:16:49,019
like the killer must have been

459
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,459
left-handed oh there's all these uh

460
00:16:49,019 --> 00:16:52,320
Witnesses are saying they saw someone

461
00:16:50,459 --> 00:16:53,399
with these very vibrant green eyes like

462
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,259
that's the only detail they remember

463
00:16:53,399 --> 00:16:58,440
this person look kind of normal but they

464
00:16:55,259 --> 00:17:00,300
just really bright striking green eyes I

465
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,160
don't know what those mean yet but later

466
00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:03,540
on somebody will put something together

467
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,459
and I'll be like yeah okay that makes

468
00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:07,319
sense and then then they're right all

469
00:17:05,459 --> 00:17:09,480
along and that's that's the Killer and

470
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:11,459
as long as you it's like a magic show as

471
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,299
long as no one sees how the trick is

472
00:17:11,459 --> 00:17:14,579
done

473
00:17:12,299 --> 00:17:16,500
It's Magic but if they see through it

474
00:17:14,579 --> 00:17:18,360
unless you're going for comedy like pin

475
00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:21,419
and Teller it's not going to work so you

476
00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:23,400
have to be confident that you can improv

477
00:17:21,419 --> 00:17:24,839
around things and I I feel like that's

478
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,360
one of my strengths I'm much better at

479
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:30,080
improv than I am encounter design so I

480
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:33,480
lean into improv over encounter design

481
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:35,700
yeah I'm this is reassuring to me and I

482
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,380
hope some of my listeners because as I

483
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:40,020
said earlier on one of the reasons why I

484
00:17:37,380 --> 00:17:42,000
haven't done a classic mystery nutmeg or

485
00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:43,140
whatever it is whatever it might be is

486
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,880
because I was always scared that I

487
00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:46,620
didn't have the skill set or the the

488
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,140
confidence or whatnot but

489
00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:51,120
I improvise a lot at the table because

490
00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:53,100
I'm fortunate enough that my players are

491
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,780
very inventive in their questions when

492
00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:56,820
they went just regular adventuring

493
00:17:54,780 --> 00:17:59,640
they're always like oh but is there the

494
00:17:56,820 --> 00:18:02,280
fire exit here or can I go into the the

495
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,600
bathrooms to put a disguise on regular

496
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,100
listeners of the show will know the

497
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,840
anecdote of

498
00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:08,280
I funnily enough I wanted to get into

499
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,679
this later on but there was a masquerade

500
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,840
ball which did have elements of a murder

501
00:18:10,679 --> 00:18:14,760
mystery into it but long story short is

502
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,440
at that point one of the Adam app drawn

503
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,140
out because I wanted it to be that level

504
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,340
of detail and the first one of the first

505
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:21,960
questions somebody asked was can I go

506
00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:23,640
into the bathroom to put a disguise on

507
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,419
and I was like

508
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:29,340
crap I didn't put that on the map

509
00:18:26,419 --> 00:18:31,500
so quickly had to annotate on with like

510
00:18:29,340 --> 00:18:33,299
the pen tool just like draw a squiggly

511
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:34,440
line that was like took a chunk out of

512
00:18:33,299 --> 00:18:36,179
one of the rooms I was like that's now

513
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,100
the restrooms I guess

514
00:18:36,179 --> 00:18:39,299
and we were running Jokers now that

515
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,320
every time they go into a new place with

516
00:18:39,299 --> 00:18:41,580
a new map they're always like yeah we're

517
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,980
in the bathroom so download and I'm like

518
00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:45,660
ah yes I know now there's so many

519
00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:47,220
bathrooms there's two bathrooms per

520
00:18:45,660 --> 00:18:48,900
person in this building it was just

521
00:18:47,220 --> 00:18:50,880
recently renovated the blueprints hadn't

522
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:52,799
been updated that's why it was uh yeah

523
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,320
yeah

524
00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:56,820
so like

525
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,220
another example recently is they're in a

526
00:18:56,820 --> 00:19:01,440
big uh I kind of blend

527
00:18:59,220 --> 00:19:04,440
site not sci-fi but more modern

528
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,900
trappings into my situation I like the

529
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,700
convenience of lifts and escalators and

530
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:11,100
being able to communicate over distances

531
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:13,220
quite easily that just AIDS in I feel

532
00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:17,280
like AIDS convenience without breaking

533
00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:20,700
too much of the have you played eberron

534
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,620
no everyone is my f is my favorite d d

535
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:24,660
setting and it does sort of incorporate

536
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:26,039
those they're they're magically based

537
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:28,260
rather than Technology based but you

538
00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:29,820
have things like trains and Sky cabs and

539
00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:32,460
elevators and lifts all that stuff is

540
00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:35,160
built in through magic not technology

541
00:19:32,460 --> 00:19:37,980
it's my favorite d d setting to play in

542
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:40,320
Yeah Yeah so basically I'm I'm inspired

543
00:19:37,980 --> 00:19:43,740
by that and there was a big big tower

544
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,940
think of it like a TV tower in Tokyo or

545
00:19:43,740 --> 00:19:46,740
something you know like those big towers

546
00:19:44,940 --> 00:19:49,200
that dominate the skylines in

547
00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:50,400
metropolises and uh there's a lift in

548
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,480
the center of it that takes them up to

549
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,460
the top and there's a viewing platform

550
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:56,460
literally north south east west little

551
00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:58,140
binoculars to go and view the the view

552
00:19:56,460 --> 00:20:00,179
the the countryside and stuff around it

553
00:19:58,140 --> 00:20:01,380
and that was it that's as much thought

554
00:20:00,179 --> 00:20:02,820
as I put into it I was like they're

555
00:20:01,380 --> 00:20:04,440
gonna go in there's a lift it's like a

556
00:20:02,820 --> 00:20:06,360
freight lift but but kind of customer

557
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,580
facing as well then get to this at the

558
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:10,440
top I don't

559
00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:12,539
know how it works I don't really care

560
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,460
how it works it's just a lift because

561
00:20:12,539 --> 00:20:16,980
that's all it needs to be right now sure

562
00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:19,080
and again thanks to my players

563
00:20:16,980 --> 00:20:20,640
they wanted to stop the lift because

564
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,140
there was another group of adventurers

565
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,000
that they wanted to talk to who were

566
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:25,679
getting the lift down and

567
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,320
they were like well I cast to spell

568
00:20:25,679 --> 00:20:30,720
Magic on the on the Elevator Shaft and

569
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,500
then that was um two mountain horn here

570
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,539
but

571
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:35,580
I was like yeah I I guess that'll shut

572
00:20:33,539 --> 00:20:37,200
down the lift because it's probably like

573
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:38,580
in my head this is out loud I'm like

574
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,200
yeah of course that shuts down the lift

575
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:44,460
you've well done player a bit in my head

576
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:47,840
I'm like uh uh yeah yeah fine fine allow

577
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:47,840
it that's that's good

578
00:20:47,940 --> 00:20:50,160
um and then again so someone else

579
00:20:49,020 --> 00:20:52,440
thought well if doesn't work so we'll

580
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,299
get the there must be like a way to get

581
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,820
down from this roof in the case of an

582
00:20:54,299 --> 00:20:58,620
emergency so it's like yeah there's a

583
00:20:56,820 --> 00:21:01,080
latch on the floor that opens up into

584
00:20:58,620 --> 00:21:02,640
you know a Gantry stairwell all the way

585
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,520
down but it's a long way to run down

586
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,679
yeah uh so that kind of thing so

587
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,320
this talk is reassured me in that I can

588
00:21:07,679 --> 00:21:13,440
probably I could definitely do a a more

589
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,340
typical mystery because of uh you know

590
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,559
that

591
00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:19,620
the years of playing DND of these

592
00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:20,820
inventive players as trained me to to be

593
00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:23,400
able to improvise

594
00:21:20,820 --> 00:21:25,500
and from the player side like I again

595
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,940
just to restate it is if if the DM does

596
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:29,039
a good job

597
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:31,260
then there's no difference to the player

598
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:33,539
like it's gonna look and feel exactly

599
00:21:31,260 --> 00:21:35,220
the same on the player side as long as

600
00:21:33,539 --> 00:21:37,020
you never tell them like and just that's

601
00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:39,179
the way it works and I equate this to

602
00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:42,240
sometimes I'll tell a joke to my friends

603
00:21:39,179 --> 00:21:43,380
in like a fake first person like oh the

604
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,480
other day I was on the train and this

605
00:21:43,380 --> 00:21:46,799
happened I was never on the train but

606
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,480
it's part of the joke it's part of the

607
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:50,400
setup that I have to be in first person

608
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,980
to tell this joke and I'm telling it not

609
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,240
to be mean and manipulate and lie to my

610
00:21:52,980 --> 00:21:56,039
friends I'm doing it because I'm trying

611
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:59,460
to film a joke to make them laugh

612
00:21:56,039 --> 00:22:01,440
so this sort of like slight dishonesty

613
00:21:59,460 --> 00:22:03,120
from a DM standpoint I think that's part

614
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,679
of the job like I absolutely feel like

615
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,360
you know I'm doing this to make the game

616
00:22:04,679 --> 00:22:07,799
fun I'm never doing this to punish my

617
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:10,020
players and to trick them and make them

618
00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:11,520
wrong like oh do they solve my mystery

619
00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:13,679
too soon I'm going to change it no I

620
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,840
would not do that I just don't know who

621
00:22:13,679 --> 00:22:16,740
did it yet and we're him into the

622
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,600
session so it's going to be someone

623
00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:19,980
different because I think it would be

624
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,360
more fun

625
00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:23,100
some people may completely disagree with

626
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,559
that it's very similar to like

627
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:27,720
fudging dice or adding hit points or

628
00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:28,620
changing you know combat stats in the

629
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,840
middle some people are like sure

630
00:22:28,620 --> 00:22:33,360
whatever other people's like no the the

631
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,760
sanctity of the dice must be maintained

632
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:37,080
your table is your table I'm not going

633
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,940
to come to your table and force you to

634
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,740
do it my way but I will tell you that

635
00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:42,299
I've done it my way for many years and

636
00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:45,179
my players enjoy it we have a good time

637
00:22:42,299 --> 00:22:47,280
so at least for us this way works and

638
00:22:45,179 --> 00:22:49,260
I've absolutely ran Mysteries both ways

639
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,760
where I know exactly who who did it I

640
00:22:49,260 --> 00:22:52,679
have the clues written down ahead of

641
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,059
time I laid them out and then I've also

642
00:22:52,679 --> 00:22:57,419
done it where I'm just making stuff up

643
00:22:54,059 --> 00:22:59,760
as I go and we've had fun both ways oh

644
00:22:57,419 --> 00:23:01,440
we've you've you've put up several quite

645
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,600
interesting topics that it is yeah

646
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,000
tangentially related to mystery I didn't

647
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,919
want to touch upon them quickly is

648
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,400
putting me myself on the spot now I do

649
00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:12,900
think in my heart of hearts that

650
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,840
improvisation in the examples we've

651
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:17,400
discussed in terms of like oh could I

652
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,159
have that lift be mechanically powered

653
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,440
but then no that kind of thing right

654
00:23:20,159 --> 00:23:24,960
it's magically powered on the spot fine

655
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,360
despo magic Works lift stops fine

656
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:30,140
is different to

657
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:32,880
fudging dice I think there is I I can't

658
00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:34,700
eloquently describe it but there is some

659
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,620
kind of inherent difference between

660
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:41,280
those two forms of quote unquote

661
00:23:37,620 --> 00:23:42,659
dishonesty now detractors of what I've

662
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,720
just said will say Well they're both

663
00:23:42,659 --> 00:23:47,520
serving a story so maybe maybe they are

664
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:51,659
the same but

665
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:54,120
you can prepare better for combat for

666
00:23:51,659 --> 00:23:55,679
you know failing forward uh the

667
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,419
solutions are perhaps simpler you know

668
00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:59,460
they don't murder you they capture you

669
00:23:57,419 --> 00:24:01,200
it's not a tpk if you will get knocked

670
00:23:59,460 --> 00:24:03,240
down whenever they imprison you you know

671
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,100
whatever it may be those Solutions are

672
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,380
typically simpler

673
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:09,720
than it is to quickly work out how a

674
00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:12,240
lift works for example or quickly put

675
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,740
together a murder mystery in the 30s oh

676
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,940
let's take a quick toilet break shall we

677
00:24:13,740 --> 00:24:16,500
in the four minutes while you're not

678
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:19,260
actually on the toilet you're just

679
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:21,059
trying to read five novels to get

680
00:24:19,260 --> 00:24:24,059
inspiration from them to be able to put

681
00:24:21,059 --> 00:24:27,360
together a compelling story

682
00:24:24,059 --> 00:24:28,740
now in both instances what the players

683
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:31,380
don't know doesn't hurt them so if they

684
00:24:28,740 --> 00:24:35,340
don't know you're fudging then you know

685
00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:38,400
but I'm struggling to to defend my point

686
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:40,200
of view but it does feel like

687
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,760
there is a difference like if at the end

688
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,600
of the murder mystery or whatever it may

689
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,640
be

690
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,659
you you reveal it to be the person that

691
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,520
you've successfully guessed and

692
00:24:45,659 --> 00:24:48,780
everyone's like jumping out of their

693
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,860
chairs cheering and laughing a bit oh

694
00:24:48,780 --> 00:24:51,059
that's the best session I've ever had

695
00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:54,120
then

696
00:24:51,059 --> 00:24:56,400
I guess that's a success right so at the

697
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,960
RPG Academy we have a motto uh we've had

698
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,340
this model for like 11.5 years it's

699
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,280
called if you're having fun you're doing

700
00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:05,760
it right and we absolutely believe that

701
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,080
so at your table if the DM never fudges

702
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,179
the dice every roll is in front of the

703
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:12,419
players they never change combat stats

704
00:25:09,179 --> 00:25:14,520
you know you think of every strict raw

705
00:25:12,419 --> 00:25:16,080
by the book rule you can think of if

706
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,059
everyone at the table is having a great

707
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,760
time doing that you are absolutely

708
00:25:18,059 --> 00:25:22,559
playing d d correctly at the same time

709
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,480
if you're playing at a table where they

710
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:26,039
you go three sessions and no one rolls a

711
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,559
dice and you're basically playing a LARP

712
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:31,020
and you start doing like you know paper

713
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:33,779
rock scissors to see who wins in combat

714
00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:35,700
if everyone had a good time you play D D

715
00:25:33,779 --> 00:25:37,260
correctly like that's absolutely my

716
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:38,820
belief if every and I do mean everyone

717
00:25:37,260 --> 00:25:40,020
so if you got three people who love it

718
00:25:38,820 --> 00:25:41,940
one person who hates it that doesn't

719
00:25:40,020 --> 00:25:43,860
count but if everyone at that session

720
00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:45,659
had a great time and they cannot wait to

721
00:25:43,860 --> 00:25:47,880
come back and play again then you're an

722
00:25:45,659 --> 00:25:49,860
amazing DM you're doing a great job keep

723
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,659
doing it but every table is different

724
00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:53,100
and usually you're going to have it's

725
00:25:51,659 --> 00:25:55,320
usually gonna fall closer to the Middle

726
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:57,360
where you play mostly by the rules but

727
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,980
maybe you have a Homebrew class or

728
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,320
feature maybe you do crits different

729
00:25:58,980 --> 00:26:03,419
than the rules or whatever they may be

730
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,120
but if it's working for you and your

731
00:26:03,419 --> 00:26:08,940
table good job you're a great DM keep

732
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:10,380
doing it yeah absolutely that's one of

733
00:26:08,940 --> 00:26:13,620
the good things about

734
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:15,960
teach application DND is that for all

735
00:26:13,620 --> 00:26:17,520
the hundreds of hours of content on this

736
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,960
podcast and I'm sure thousands of hours

737
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,120
of content you've produced you can

738
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,640
distill it down to that quite elegant

739
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:26,100
like is everybody having fun yes or no

740
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,600
yes right good and

741
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:28,740
perfect there are different levels of

742
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,080
fun and everyone can still be having

743
00:26:28,740 --> 00:26:34,380
more fun but that's what the purpose of

744
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:36,299
the show is is to just ignite those

745
00:26:34,380 --> 00:26:37,620
flames of inspiration to be like oh yeah

746
00:26:36,299 --> 00:26:39,059
I never thought about that or maybe I

747
00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:40,200
could add that in or maybe I won't do

748
00:26:39,059 --> 00:26:42,120
all of that but maybe I'll just take

749
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,039
that one little piece and that's the why

750
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:45,659
I love the show and having people such

751
00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:48,659
as yourselves on is to

752
00:26:45,659 --> 00:26:51,360
have those discussions and provide those

753
00:26:48,659 --> 00:26:53,700
little perspectives and point of views

754
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,500
and tips and tricks that I definitely

755
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:56,940
would never have thought of well and

756
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,500
then and to kind of counter my own

757
00:26:56,940 --> 00:27:00,539
argument because again we we've been

758
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:01,740
doing this a long time is that even if

759
00:27:00,539 --> 00:27:03,240
you're having an amazing session like

760
00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:05,159
like you said that doesn't mean you

761
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,779
can't have a better session like you

762
00:27:05,159 --> 00:27:08,820
maybe haven't ever had so much fun but

763
00:27:06,779 --> 00:27:11,039
you don't even know that there's more

764
00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:14,700
fun to be had so we still encourage

765
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:16,260
people to improve uh try things like if

766
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:18,539
you are someone who will fudge a die

767
00:27:16,260 --> 00:27:20,400
without thinking try a session where you

768
00:27:18,539 --> 00:27:23,340
don't if you're someone who's never

769
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:26,039
fudge to die maybe try one time you do

770
00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:27,779
just to see how it works uh hopefully

771
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:29,640
it's not a campaign destroying

772
00:27:27,779 --> 00:27:30,960
friendship ending situation maybe it's

773
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,520
probably something a little bit less you

774
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,380
know important at that particular moment

775
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,760
if you're someone who uses maps and

776
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:37,679
minis try a theater of the Mind battle

777
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,600
if you only do theater mind try a map

778
00:27:37,679 --> 00:27:41,460
and mini battle but mostly what I would

779
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,539
say to improve your dming my two biggest

780
00:27:41,460 --> 00:27:44,880
tips

781
00:27:42,539 --> 00:27:46,919
um are play other games

782
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,679
I also run a small gaming convention

783
00:27:46,919 --> 00:27:52,380
like four or 500 people once a year uh

784
00:27:49,679 --> 00:27:53,880
go to a convention and play every game

785
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:56,279
you can that's not the game you normally

786
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,799
play so if you're the DM for your d d

787
00:27:56,279 --> 00:28:01,380
campaign play five other games as

788
00:27:58,799 --> 00:28:03,840
players not DND to play story games play

789
00:28:01,380 --> 00:28:05,520
Sci-Fi games play call Cthulhu you're

790
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,559
going to take things from those games

791
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,799
little elements whether it be a mechanic

792
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:12,720
like a rule a tip something about tone

793
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:15,059
or theme or whatever and it will

794
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,520
probably make you better at running d d

795
00:28:15,059 --> 00:28:19,919
and I'll be honest sometimes having a

796
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,120
bad experience makes you a better DND DM

797
00:28:19,919 --> 00:28:23,460
because you're like oh that was terrible

798
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:25,320
I had a horrible time this game because

799
00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:27,600
the DM kept doing this I'm going to make

800
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,940
sure I never do those things that still

801
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,980
is you improving and the other thing I

802
00:28:29,940 --> 00:28:33,720
would tell you to do is to record your

803
00:28:31,980 --> 00:28:35,159
games does not mean you're going to

804
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,480
start a podcast though everyone does

805
00:28:35,159 --> 00:28:38,520
these days it's really easy you should

806
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,799
do it if you want to but I cannot tell

807
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,840
you how valuable listening back to

808
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:45,720
yourself running a game can be to help

809
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,520
you improve so one you know taking notes

810
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,260
you're going to remember what accent you

811
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,760
use for that NPC you remember what name

812
00:28:49,260 --> 00:28:51,840
you made up in the spot for that NPC

813
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,039
you're gonna remember all the clues you

814
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,779
made up oh it's a left-handed killer

815
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,600
who's taller than the victim but you're

816
00:28:54,779 --> 00:28:59,700
going to be able to hear

817
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,440
where your players are totally engaged

818
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:03,659
and they're excited about what's

819
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,159
happening you're going to hear where you

820
00:29:03,659 --> 00:29:06,539
stumble you're going to hear where you

821
00:29:05,159 --> 00:29:08,039
have to repeat yourself three times

822
00:29:06,539 --> 00:29:10,140
because no one understood what was going

823
00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:11,700
on you had to re-clarify they didn't

824
00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:13,860
pick up this clue and they were

825
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,520
completely off base 30 minutes into the

826
00:29:13,860 --> 00:29:16,260
game

827
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,120
you were absolutely going to pick up on

828
00:29:16,260 --> 00:29:19,559
all those details so that is one of my

829
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,659
biggest tips for anyone record your

830
00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:24,000
sessions even if it's just for you and

831
00:29:21,659 --> 00:29:25,620
listen back to them yeah I've never

832
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,460
thought I mean despite streaming some of

833
00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:31,799
my games uh I have never once gone back

834
00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:34,679
to you and also despite misremembering

835
00:29:31,799 --> 00:29:38,220
and uh that definitely forgetting

836
00:29:34,679 --> 00:29:39,240
accents 100 times over that is uh yeah I

837
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:40,740
think you can do it quite easily in

838
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,720
Discord and stuff or even just if you're

839
00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:44,039
in person with a microphone on the on

840
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,480
the table right so if you're not going

841
00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:47,779
to podcast it it doesn't have to be good

842
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:51,000
audio as long as you can hear it

843
00:29:47,779 --> 00:29:53,220
yeah I can't believe I've never heard

844
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,679
that one before well done Michael that's

845
00:29:53,220 --> 00:29:56,760
it that's the first

846
00:29:54,679 --> 00:29:58,880
I'm out I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead

847
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,960
see thanks everyone for having me

848
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,279
that's fine really short episode this

849
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,279
week boom done good night

850
00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:08,029
[Music]

851
00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:17,460
thank you

852
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:20,640
I wanted to briefly talk about now the

853
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:22,580
kind of I've run two right two things

854
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,559
that we that could be considered

855
00:30:22,580 --> 00:30:27,720
Mysteries quote unquote like

856
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:28,980
the closest that I've come to that so

857
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,299
we'll start with the one that's slightly

858
00:30:28,980 --> 00:30:32,220
further away

859
00:30:30,299 --> 00:30:33,720
and the reason why I explain it it's not

860
00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:35,340
only for the listener's benefit but see

861
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,720
you know get your take on it as well see

862
00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:37,620
you know your thoughts maybe I could

863
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,020
have done better I could have done worse

864
00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:41,520
or maybe other things that maybe it's

865
00:30:40,020 --> 00:30:44,159
it's inspiration for you as well who

866
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,840
knows but one of my favorite games is uh

867
00:30:44,159 --> 00:30:47,940
outer Wilds

868
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,380
um a couple years ago maybe 2019 or

869
00:30:47,940 --> 00:30:50,940
something and

870
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:53,279
um there's no combat or anything the

871
00:30:50,940 --> 00:30:55,020
whole gimmick of the game is that it's

872
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:57,419
all based on the knowledge of the player

873
00:30:55,020 --> 00:31:00,059
and there's your knowledge improves you

874
00:30:57,419 --> 00:31:02,520
can then progress with the story and

875
00:31:00,059 --> 00:31:04,320
everything's in place at the start every

876
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,360
all the variables are set at the start

877
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,919
everything's there all the tools are

878
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,940
there and available at the start is that

879
00:31:07,919 --> 00:31:10,799
you don't know

880
00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:13,679
how they work together or how to use

881
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:15,720
them so they're just these random

882
00:31:13,679 --> 00:31:17,039
elements that mean nothing to you

883
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,840
until you've done some exploring and

884
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:20,279
worked out I wanted to emulate that

885
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,600
feeling because I really loved it really

886
00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:23,580
loved the game and I wanted to emulate

887
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,159
that thing that the game gave me for my

888
00:31:23,580 --> 00:31:27,620
players of that same kind of situation

889
00:31:26,159 --> 00:31:30,840
of like

890
00:31:27,620 --> 00:31:34,260
oh okay so now if we do X and m y and

891
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,520
then Z then we'll be able to open the

892
00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:37,080
door or something like that and it's

893
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,700
just like oh I was there all along and

894
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,779
now we now we can Chuck cat and blah

895
00:31:38,700 --> 00:31:42,779
blah

896
00:31:39,779 --> 00:31:45,120
so the the the premise of outer Wilds is

897
00:31:42,779 --> 00:31:47,760
it's a Time loop it's like 22 minutes

898
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:50,279
and then it resets and that's how it's

899
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,720
you keep having the lodge and you can go

900
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:53,520
back to step one and go through it with

901
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,500
a new knowledge again so I did the same

902
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,799
thing with 30 minutes

903
00:31:55,500 --> 00:32:01,320
in the past but it's a kind of Star Wars

904
00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:03,480
a long time ago so it's in the past but

905
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,880
it was mechanically and and futuristic

906
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,279
more settings with automatic doors and

907
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,360
so on lifts again funnily enough and so

908
00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:12,840
on and so on

909
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,760
but one thing I did to really reduce the

910
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,860
number of variables and you mentioned it

911
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,659
earlier around the player's abilities

912
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:20,220
and I know my players are creative and I

913
00:32:18,659 --> 00:32:22,559
know my plays are inventive and I know

914
00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:23,880
that there's no way I could give them

915
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:25,860
that feeling

916
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,179
while still having them have all their

917
00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:28,380
abilities

918
00:32:27,179 --> 00:32:30,659
so

919
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:32,640
my mechanic was part of a time travel

920
00:32:30,659 --> 00:32:35,640
process it was like a Quantum Leap thing

921
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,140
so they embodied bodies of somebody you

922
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,720
know other people while they were there

923
00:32:37,140 --> 00:32:44,220
thereby stripping them of their

924
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:47,580
Powers so I I must admit

925
00:32:44,220 --> 00:32:49,860
telling the Barbarian bloodhunter Min

926
00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:55,320
maxer that his strength it was now only

927
00:32:49,860 --> 00:32:58,500
10 and not 20 was painful set the

928
00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:00,539
sadness on his face but uh I was like

929
00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:02,580
sorry dude you can still punch things

930
00:33:00,539 --> 00:33:04,020
and you still kind of you I might give

931
00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:05,460
you a little bonus because you know you

932
00:33:04,020 --> 00:33:08,279
know how to punch things as well as just

933
00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:09,600
being physically strong but

934
00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:11,640
there needs to be a Level Playing Field

935
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:15,720
it needs to be on your your brain power

936
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:17,220
only as it were super risky stripping

937
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,760
them you know of everything no no

938
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:22,500
polymorph for the Druid no you know

939
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:25,740
spells no charm person for the Warlock

940
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:27,899
no you know plus six strength for the

941
00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:29,940
Barbarian

942
00:33:27,899 --> 00:33:31,980
and actually they really really enjoyed

943
00:33:29,940 --> 00:33:33,480
it I was very happy to say they came out

944
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:35,820
those items like yeah that was really

945
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,039
memorable really interesting quite

946
00:33:35,820 --> 00:33:40,440
different happy to get back to our my

947
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:42,659
the comfort of my class that I know love

948
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,820
but for those seven eight sessions I

949
00:33:42,659 --> 00:33:47,460
think it has 11 sessions in the end that

950
00:33:44,820 --> 00:33:49,740
was very memorable and

951
00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:51,539
yeah it was it was going back in time

952
00:33:49,740 --> 00:33:53,940
I had a broad idea of what had happened

953
00:33:51,539 --> 00:33:56,279
but they had to piece it together and oh

954
00:33:53,940 --> 00:33:57,299
well that happens at 11 minutes past so

955
00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:59,159
I can

956
00:33:57,299 --> 00:34:00,659
you know across that person take a

957
00:33:59,159 --> 00:34:02,880
security card that gets me through that

958
00:34:00,659 --> 00:34:04,500
door at 11 minutes past what can I do in

959
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,779
the first 10 minutes there to you know

960
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:07,980
that kind of stuff so

961
00:34:06,779 --> 00:34:09,839
I don't know if you've done anything

962
00:34:07,980 --> 00:34:13,200
similar or I've got any thoughts on that

963
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:15,800
or or have I committed a cardinal sin of

964
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:19,500
stripping my players over there

965
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:21,659
there's a movie uh Live Die Repeat the

966
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:23,339
Tom Cruise movie where basically here

967
00:34:21,659 --> 00:34:25,740
pretended as he resets and goes through

968
00:34:23,339 --> 00:34:29,159
and yes that's a classic video game sort

969
00:34:25,740 --> 00:34:31,020
of uh conceit so I have the worst

970
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:33,780
example of doing something similar that

971
00:34:31,020 --> 00:34:35,220
I I went through because I I do as a DM

972
00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:38,399
I like to experiment I want to try

973
00:34:35,220 --> 00:34:41,879
different things and so my setup quickly

974
00:34:38,399 --> 00:34:44,700
is I when I do a new campaign

975
00:34:41,879 --> 00:34:46,679
um i s like each game I prepare very

976
00:34:44,700 --> 00:34:48,839
little like I go into each game with

977
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:50,580
just a very small inkling of what's

978
00:34:48,839 --> 00:34:52,379
going to happen I'm very improv friendly

979
00:34:50,580 --> 00:34:54,540
I'll just roll with the punches but

980
00:34:52,379 --> 00:34:56,339
before we ever play the first session I

981
00:34:54,540 --> 00:34:58,680
do lots and lots and lots of planning

982
00:34:56,339 --> 00:35:00,780
and World building so that I kind of

983
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,760
know what's happening big picture so it

984
00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:04,740
makes it easier to improvise in the in

985
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,359
the middle but it's also a process where

986
00:35:04,740 --> 00:35:08,760
I involve the players and I ask them to

987
00:35:06,359 --> 00:35:10,800
like create backstories and create NPCs

988
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,540
so we went to this very involved process

989
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,000
that took you know it was probably a

990
00:35:12,540 --> 00:35:16,260
month over text and emails maybe a

991
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,240
couple Zoom calls and we were like

992
00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:20,520
fleshing out this world and I had

993
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:23,099
everybody create multiple NPCs but one

994
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,720
in particular we really focused on and

995
00:35:23,099 --> 00:35:26,460
they just really did a good job of

996
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:28,680
creating this NPC and really fleshing

997
00:35:26,460 --> 00:35:31,140
them out and how their character knew

998
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,660
the player's character so we start the

999
00:35:31,140 --> 00:35:35,400
actual campaign and the first session

1000
00:35:33,660 --> 00:35:38,220
was like a little tiny one shot

1001
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:40,800
beginning middle and end and it ended

1002
00:35:38,220 --> 00:35:42,480
with them defeating this evil black

1003
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,339
creature in the swamp but they were all

1004
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,520
covered in this like icker

1005
00:35:44,339 --> 00:35:48,960
and then the next session when I showed

1006
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,920
up I'm like okay you're now playing this

1007
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,000
character you're now playing this

1008
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,640
character and you're and I basically

1009
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,099
gave them the NPC sheets that they had

1010
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,900
created because when they wake up all

1011
00:35:56,099 --> 00:35:59,280
their players are gone the player

1012
00:35:57,900 --> 00:36:01,320
characters have have disappeared it's

1013
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,420
misery no one knows where they are so

1014
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,420
you're now playing these NPCs trying to

1015
00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:08,760
find your players

1016
00:36:06,420 --> 00:36:12,720
I thought it was brilliant my players

1017
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:15,240
revolted they hated it hated it actually

1018
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:17,540
killed the campaign like we stopped

1019
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:20,880
playing it because they hated it so bad

1020
00:36:17,540 --> 00:36:23,160
and my fundamental flaw is I didn't

1021
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,440
explain what was going on like I thought

1022
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:28,260
the surprise factor of you playing these

1023
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,599
NPCs that you had created and you had

1024
00:36:28,260 --> 00:36:32,880
some investment in would be compelling

1025
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:36,960
enough to drive them forward but they

1026
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:38,460
were all like I built a paladin I want

1027
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,740
to play a paladin I don't want to play

1028
00:36:38,460 --> 00:36:42,660
this tree farmer and I didn't explain

1029
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:44,820
that this was temporary I didn't explain

1030
00:36:42,660 --> 00:36:46,920
that we would be jumping back and forth

1031
00:36:44,820 --> 00:36:48,960
and eventually you know pretty quickly

1032
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,300
you would learn where your players

1033
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,740
actually were and it would be like a

1034
00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:54,180
two-sided thing where you would be

1035
00:36:52,740 --> 00:36:55,560
trying to get out while they were trying

1036
00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:58,140
to rescue you and they would come

1037
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,880
together so what I would have learned

1038
00:36:58,140 --> 00:37:01,680
from here and I would apply to yours as

1039
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,440
well is I would have at least told them

1040
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,599
ahead of time what the plan was why I'm

1041
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,160
doing it and that it is temporary like

1042
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:09,300
you were not your characters are not

1043
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,280
dead you're going to get back to playing

1044
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:13,500
them but there's a reason why I want you

1045
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,660
to do this so please humor me

1046
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:17,640
if you're not having the most fun I

1047
00:37:15,660 --> 00:37:20,220
think it will be worth it in the end and

1048
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,500
I still could have been wrong but I

1049
00:37:20,220 --> 00:37:24,720
think not trusting my players enough to

1050
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,800
have them trust me that there's a reason

1051
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:28,079
we're doing this it's going to be fun

1052
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,480
just go with it I thought the the

1053
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:33,300
surprise of all your characters are gone

1054
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,280
would over override their yes

1055
00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:36,720
disappointment and at least for my group

1056
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,460
it did not

1057
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,320
now you touched on a really good point

1058
00:37:38,460 --> 00:37:42,660
about that trust between the players and

1059
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,280
the DMS and I think a lot of a lot of

1060
00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:45,900
problems and a lot of horror stories you

1061
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,880
hear you know outside of just you know

1062
00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:49,740
the topic of Today Show mystery and just

1063
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,440
in general in teaching RPGs is because

1064
00:37:49,740 --> 00:37:54,359
there isn't that trust between the

1065
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,560
players and the DMS and it's obviously

1066
00:37:54,359 --> 00:37:57,780
it's hard to build obviously if you're

1067
00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:01,140
playing with randoms online it's not it

1068
00:37:57,780 --> 00:38:03,119
doesn't start there but a lot of things

1069
00:38:01,140 --> 00:38:06,000
like we we've both anecdotes we've both

1070
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:07,440
discussed they require an element you

1071
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,380
know quite a large degree of trust in

1072
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,180
fact between the players and DM and

1073
00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:14,099
there's no way I would have done that in

1074
00:38:12,180 --> 00:38:15,540
the first year of playing even though I

1075
00:38:14,099 --> 00:38:17,339
knew the guys I was working with them

1076
00:38:15,540 --> 00:38:19,320
for years you know my colleagues worked

1077
00:38:17,339 --> 00:38:21,660
with them daily uh many of them were

1078
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,820
friends as well even still I would not

1079
00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:25,079
have done that uh I did give them a

1080
00:38:23,820 --> 00:38:26,339
heads up I was like look the next couple

1081
00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:28,220
of sessions are going to be very

1082
00:38:26,339 --> 00:38:30,240
different and I'm trying something

1083
00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:32,760
experimental that I've never done before

1084
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:35,460
so it's gonna be different

1085
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,839
just bear with me and we'll see see how

1086
00:38:35,460 --> 00:38:38,339
it goes I didn't explicitly tell them

1087
00:38:36,839 --> 00:38:40,380
you're going to lose all your weapons

1088
00:38:38,339 --> 00:38:43,980
and abilities and that we just spent

1089
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:46,380
four years Gathering but uh it's quite

1090
00:38:43,980 --> 00:38:47,700
different I'm pretty sure you should

1091
00:38:46,380 --> 00:38:49,380
find it enjoyable

1092
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:51,359
but yeah it's that it's that trust like

1093
00:38:49,380 --> 00:38:54,900
this there is so much there that you

1094
00:38:51,359 --> 00:38:56,339
need this unspoken trust so like I'm

1095
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:59,339
very fortunate in their game that I'm a

1096
00:38:56,339 --> 00:39:01,920
player and I've huge amounts of respect

1097
00:38:59,339 --> 00:39:05,040
and Trust for for our DM and also the

1098
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:07,200
benefit of experience of dming myself so

1099
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,700
those two things combined I think is why

1100
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,520
they keep having me back at the table

1101
00:39:08,700 --> 00:39:14,339
despite doing no post-production or or

1102
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:16,440
any support to the podcast I just don't

1103
00:39:14,339 --> 00:39:19,320
open play it's great isn't it yeah

1104
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,940
wonderful it is it's wonderful uh but

1105
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,160
it's because I'm like oh I can tell what

1106
00:39:20,940 --> 00:39:25,260
he's trying to do here and I told him to

1107
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,839
pull it off so my character's gonna act

1108
00:39:25,260 --> 00:39:29,099
in this manner and I think likewise I

1109
00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:30,540
think if he was here he would say he

1110
00:39:29,099 --> 00:39:33,060
would trust me and my character to

1111
00:39:30,540 --> 00:39:34,800
operate in that kind of way but you just

1112
00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:36,780
don't you know that that doesn't happen

1113
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,880
at session zero that doesn't happen in

1114
00:39:36,780 --> 00:39:40,079
session 10 that takes a while to build

1115
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,520
up and I think a lot of problems people

1116
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:44,220
have is because they're playing these

1117
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,900
random games or you know pick up groups

1118
00:39:44,220 --> 00:39:48,359
so just rock up every week which it can

1119
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:49,800
be can be absolutely fun but I think you

1120
00:39:48,359 --> 00:39:51,780
don't you don't have the implicit trust

1121
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,220
there because you don't know that person

1122
00:39:51,780 --> 00:39:55,980
you don't know their skill set you don't

1123
00:39:53,220 --> 00:39:58,140
know are they just gonna take away your

1124
00:39:55,980 --> 00:40:00,960
characters and do something else or

1125
00:39:58,140 --> 00:40:03,119
anything weird and uh yeah I've just

1126
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,320
been rambling about how great I am but

1127
00:40:03,119 --> 00:40:06,320
that is

1128
00:40:07,260 --> 00:40:10,339
damn right yeah

1129
00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:15,180
so I I would just kind of roll that

1130
00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:16,980
trust back into just to quickly touch on

1131
00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:20,040
like the the fudging thing again quickly

1132
00:40:16,980 --> 00:40:21,900
is like like I play with a lot of random

1133
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,760
not random I play with a lot of variety

1134
00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:25,140
of people through the podcast we do one

1135
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,420
shots and one-offs and they're open

1136
00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:28,980
invites but I also have a group that I

1137
00:40:27,420 --> 00:40:31,260
generally play with and you know

1138
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:32,579
campaign play style and at least for my

1139
00:40:31,260 --> 00:40:34,380
campaigns I'm very open about the fact

1140
00:40:32,579 --> 00:40:37,140
that I will fudge dice like I'm just 100

1141
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:39,300
open aboard I will do it if I feel it's

1142
00:40:37,140 --> 00:40:41,820
necessary though in truth I very rarely

1143
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:43,020
do like I I have enough experience and

1144
00:40:41,820 --> 00:40:45,119
like you were touching on there's

1145
00:40:43,020 --> 00:40:48,060
there's all these dials that I can twist

1146
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:50,760
and turn to sort of change the way

1147
00:40:48,060 --> 00:40:52,619
things are happening and just ignoring

1148
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,300
the result on a die is one of those

1149
00:40:52,619 --> 00:40:56,460
tools but it's one of the least elegant

1150
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:58,380
like I have lots of ways that I can

1151
00:40:56,460 --> 00:41:00,660
change things whether it's just make the

1152
00:40:58,380 --> 00:41:02,220
bad guys do dumb things and not do the

1153
00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:03,960
most technically Advanced thing not use

1154
00:41:02,220 --> 00:41:06,660
their best spell lots of ways around it

1155
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,579
but for me ignoring a dark roll is one

1156
00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:10,200
of the tools in my toolbox and like any

1157
00:41:08,579 --> 00:41:12,180
tool in the toolbox some people will

1158
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,640
overuse it so some people will never use

1159
00:41:12,180 --> 00:41:17,040
it some people will misuse it but for me

1160
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,780
it is a tool in the toolbox but I have

1161
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,240
an understanding with my long-term

1162
00:41:18,780 --> 00:41:23,220
campaign players that every decision I

1163
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:24,480
make whether it's to turn a dial change

1164
00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:26,460
the number of enemies change the number

1165
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,700
of hit points not use a spell use a

1166
00:41:26,460 --> 00:41:31,920
spell fudge a die is based on my belief

1167
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:33,780
that it will be more fun for them it is

1168
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,760
never about home the Integrity of the

1169
00:41:33,780 --> 00:41:37,560
story I'm trying to tell if you haven't

1170
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,820
paid attention I don't have a story I'm

1171
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,320
trying to tell usually I'm improving

1172
00:41:38,820 --> 00:41:41,520
making stuff up as we go I didn't even

1173
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,380
know this bad guy was showing up today

1174
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,880
you told me he was so it's not like I

1175
00:41:43,380 --> 00:41:47,820
need them to live for any particular

1176
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,380
reason but in the moment I'm making a

1177
00:41:47,820 --> 00:41:51,300
decision I think will be the most fun

1178
00:41:49,380 --> 00:41:53,220
for everyone at the table and there will

1179
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:54,540
be times I'm wrong so there will be

1180
00:41:53,220 --> 00:41:55,680
times I shouldn't have doubled hit

1181
00:41:54,540 --> 00:41:57,000
points there aren't times when I

1182
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,200
shouldn't have halved hit points there

1183
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,960
are times when I shouldn't have fledged

1184
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,640
to die but I think over the long run I

1185
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,740
have built trust with my players that

1186
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:07,500
I'm doing this for the benefit of the

1187
00:42:04,740 --> 00:42:09,000
entire group and I have their best

1188
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:11,280
interest at heart that's the only reason

1189
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,560
I'm doing it so even when it doesn't go

1190
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,000
perfectly they're still dating well I

1191
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,920
know you I know what you were trying to

1192
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,660
do that might have been a mistake but

1193
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,619
it's not going to affect us long term

1194
00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:21,500
we're going to come back and play again

1195
00:42:19,619 --> 00:42:24,180
next week type of a thing

1196
00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:27,359
yeah it's probably one of the most

1197
00:42:24,180 --> 00:42:30,480
important things is that trust that

1198
00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:33,960
Rapport you build and yeah on every

1199
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:36,480
every session I'm just lucky that uh

1200
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,280
both have my players and the DM in my

1201
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,380
other game that I have that that trust

1202
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:43,880
with because playing games is fun right

1203
00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:47,280
like that's why we do it it's fun

1204
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:49,079
I have for games is did I have fun yes

1205
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,280
it was a great game no could have been

1206
00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:51,839
better like that's it that's the only

1207
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,359
measuring stick I have for games are

1208
00:42:51,839 --> 00:42:56,280
they fun oh that reminded me too much

1209
00:42:54,359 --> 00:42:57,780
advice again you've reminded me of a

1210
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,160
question I wanted to ask this and this

1211
00:42:57,780 --> 00:43:01,619
will put you on the spot slightly okay

1212
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,780
but I got I gotta come I gotta come I'm

1213
00:43:01,619 --> 00:43:05,880
gonna play both sides of an argument so

1214
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:08,099
we're talking more about you know the

1215
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,780
villain the perpetrator

1216
00:43:08,099 --> 00:43:11,640
once the players have kind of put enough

1217
00:43:09,780 --> 00:43:13,619
pieces together the person they think it

1218
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,119
is would be the person because you know

1219
00:43:13,619 --> 00:43:18,359
we're rinsing it up on the flight and

1220
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:19,980
stuff some people would say that that

1221
00:43:18,359 --> 00:43:21,839
leaves too much power in the in the

1222
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:24,660
hands of the DM to be you know to

1223
00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:28,200
arbitrarily decide when the players have

1224
00:43:24,660 --> 00:43:30,420
done enough and and enough is is what

1225
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,099
exactly so I don't know what what are

1226
00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:34,319
your thoughts on on that style of

1227
00:43:32,099 --> 00:43:36,119
mystery and that that particular

1228
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:37,920
feedback so I'm going to take out the

1229
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:38,880
fact that we're running a module so I'm

1230
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,680
we're going to assume that we're doing

1231
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,660
Homebrew for this sort of counter

1232
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,520
argument to your prompt here

1233
00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:48,900
so when I sat down to write this murder

1234
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:52,319
mystery I had 100 complete control over

1235
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:55,079
everything I decided what setting this

1236
00:43:52,319 --> 00:43:57,359
would be in who the NPCs would be what

1237
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:59,819
the method of death would be what Clues

1238
00:43:57,359 --> 00:44:01,920
they would find like I planned every

1239
00:43:59,819 --> 00:44:04,260
single thing out in detail

1240
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,119
but I did it in a vacuum

1241
00:44:04,260 --> 00:44:07,920
I didn't actually know

1242
00:44:06,119 --> 00:44:09,420
what was going to happen at the table I

1243
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,920
didn't necessarily know which players

1244
00:44:09,420 --> 00:44:12,240
were not going to be there that night or

1245
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,920
which ones were had a bad day at work

1246
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:15,599
and they weren't really engaged which

1247
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:19,079
one was going to forget what spells they

1248
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:22,079
had so my belief is that if I am

1249
00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:24,839
changing things on the Fly that is me

1250
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:26,819
adapting to real-time information that

1251
00:44:24,839 --> 00:44:28,380
if I had had that information when I was

1252
00:44:26,819 --> 00:44:30,300
prepping I would have included it then

1253
00:44:28,380 --> 00:44:32,040
so to me there's no difference in me

1254
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,940
writing down three ogres or going to

1255
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,099
attack

1256
00:44:32,940 --> 00:44:36,900
then there is me going well in the

1257
00:44:35,099 --> 00:44:39,359
moment it's going to be four because

1258
00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:40,980
Steve's dice are on fire and he's just

1259
00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:44,400
gonna Slaughter the first one on round

1260
00:44:40,980 --> 00:44:46,500
one or three hours on attack oh crap

1261
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,819
they're almost dead uh I'm just gonna

1262
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:51,060
forget the third one was there now it's

1263
00:44:47,819 --> 00:44:53,160
just two like I am updating my planning

1264
00:44:51,060 --> 00:44:55,140
real time based on actual information

1265
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,300
rather than doing it in a vacuum to me

1266
00:44:55,140 --> 00:44:58,440
those are exactly the same process as

1267
00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:00,420
long as they're all done with the

1268
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,619
standpoint of I'm creating an encounter

1269
00:45:00,420 --> 00:45:04,500
because I think it'll be fun I think

1270
00:45:01,619 --> 00:45:05,819
it'll be challenging but rewarding or in

1271
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:06,599
some cases I make an easy encounter

1272
00:45:05,819 --> 00:45:08,160
because I want them to feel like

1273
00:45:06,599 --> 00:45:09,960
badasses and I want them to wipe out

1274
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,220
everything and sometimes I want it to be

1275
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,900
really hard where if they don't make

1276
00:45:11,220 --> 00:45:15,300
good choices they may have to run away

1277
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:18,000
so me making those choices in the game

1278
00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:20,520
is just part of my prepped moved into

1279
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:24,599
real time based on new information so to

1280
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:27,359
me they're exactly the same oh nice uh

1281
00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:29,040
come back on that yeah I've had these

1282
00:45:27,359 --> 00:45:31,140
discussions before if you're not aware

1283
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:34,980
the whole idea of fudging not fudging is

1284
00:45:31,140 --> 00:45:37,020
a huge like contention in the uh RPG

1285
00:45:34,980 --> 00:45:39,060
space online so yeah there's lots of

1286
00:45:37,020 --> 00:45:41,339
opportunities to like think about this

1287
00:45:39,060 --> 00:45:43,260
and and again just as you say if you're

1288
00:45:41,339 --> 00:45:46,859
someone who doesn't agree with me you're

1289
00:45:43,260 --> 00:45:48,599
not wrong for you but but when you tell

1290
00:45:46,859 --> 00:45:50,520
me I'm wrong that's when you become

1291
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:51,540
wrong

1292
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,700
yes

1293
00:45:51,540 --> 00:45:57,540
absolutely absolutely

1294
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:58,859
um the the other thing I've done was I

1295
00:45:57,540 --> 00:46:01,440
know I said I've never done it before

1296
00:45:58,859 --> 00:46:04,800
but um my players were tasked with

1297
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:07,680
disposing of a uh person of interest in

1298
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:10,560
that you know a philanthropist a you

1299
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,400
know famous minor celebrity in in the

1300
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,980
city

1301
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,780
and that they were hosting a like a

1302
00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:17,160
masquerade ball and that would be a good

1303
00:46:15,780 --> 00:46:20,520
time to do it

1304
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:21,960
very cliche I know uh execution matters

1305
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,640
the most cliche story in the world can

1306
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,839
be tons of fun if you do it well so

1307
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,300
don't ever worry about leaning into

1308
00:46:24,839 --> 00:46:28,560
cliches

1309
00:46:26,300 --> 00:46:30,480
now as it turns out this guy was

1310
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,160
obviously had some dark

1311
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,200
other things which is why they've they

1312
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,720
wanted him out of the picture so it was

1313
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:39,240
kind of Justified in a way but my play

1314
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:41,520
is a loosey-goosey with

1315
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:43,440
good and bad anyway as it is so I wasn't

1316
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,540
too too precious about that

1317
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,880
um but yes they they

1318
00:46:45,540 --> 00:46:50,280
faff around they find ways to get into

1319
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,359
that they Forge tickets they they steal

1320
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,920
a couple tickets they have enough for

1321
00:46:51,359 --> 00:46:54,780
the whole party to get in blah blah they

1322
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,359
end up turning up legit legitimately

1323
00:46:54,780 --> 00:46:58,980
with legitimate tickets rather than

1324
00:46:57,359 --> 00:47:00,859
coming through a second or third story

1325
00:46:58,980 --> 00:47:02,579
window or whatever it may be and

1326
00:47:00,859 --> 00:47:03,839
philanthropist is at the top of the

1327
00:47:02,579 --> 00:47:06,960
stairs and he's like oh you know welcome

1328
00:47:03,839 --> 00:47:09,839
everybody to my exciting masquerade

1329
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,240
party tonight but the gimmick of that

1330
00:47:09,839 --> 00:47:15,000
was that he was running a it's a bit

1331
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:16,859
like funnily enough Glass Onion

1332
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,859
in that he was running a murder mystery

1333
00:47:16,859 --> 00:47:22,140
actually I proceeded Glass Onion so if

1334
00:47:19,859 --> 00:47:23,760
anything he's closed on my idea yeah

1335
00:47:22,140 --> 00:47:25,740
yeah I think so

1336
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,700
um and he was doing murder mystery

1337
00:47:25,740 --> 00:47:27,900
series talking at the top of the stairs

1338
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:29,160
and all the players are watching and

1339
00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:31,079
like okay that's the guy we got to get

1340
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,359
to but we'll think you know we'll come

1341
00:47:31,079 --> 00:47:34,980
to that later he gets stabbed through

1342
00:47:33,359 --> 00:47:36,260
the back so the sword you know comes out

1343
00:47:34,980 --> 00:47:40,020
the middle of his chest and he's like

1344
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:41,460
and collapses and everyone screams and

1345
00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:43,079
the lights turn out and it goes into

1346
00:47:41,460 --> 00:47:44,579
chaos and sometimes like oh my God is it

1347
00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:46,339
done can we leave do we need it doesn't

1348
00:47:44,579 --> 00:47:50,040
sound right you know that that problems

1349
00:47:46,339 --> 00:47:51,900
yeah easy easy job easy money

1350
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,859
um so that's what I did unfortunately I

1351
00:47:51,900 --> 00:47:56,040
didn't

1352
00:47:52,859 --> 00:47:57,420
do too much of the whole you know who's

1353
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,359
out to get him well I heard he owed

1354
00:47:57,420 --> 00:48:02,520
money to this person or you know like in

1355
00:48:00,359 --> 00:48:05,220
Glass Onion all of them have got some

1356
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,480
weird reason to hate the person Edward

1357
00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:08,819
Norton's character for whatever it may

1358
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,440
be I didn't I didn't do too much of that

1359
00:48:08,819 --> 00:48:12,359
because I just presumed my players would

1360
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,020
brute force it and they kind of did in a

1361
00:48:12,359 --> 00:48:14,700
way

1362
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:16,619
um

1363
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:17,940
so that's almost like two murder

1364
00:48:16,619 --> 00:48:19,079
mysteries layered on top of each other

1365
00:48:17,940 --> 00:48:20,460
because you've got the fake one and then

1366
00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:21,780
you've got the real one that the players

1367
00:48:20,460 --> 00:48:23,520
are gonna commit

1368
00:48:21,780 --> 00:48:25,380
which is interesting

1369
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,819
yes that that that's what I did

1370
00:48:25,380 --> 00:48:28,380
definitely could have been done better

1371
00:48:26,819 --> 00:48:30,900
as I said like I probably could have

1372
00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:32,220
lent more onto the the fake murder

1373
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:33,420
mystery experience a little bit more

1374
00:48:32,220 --> 00:48:34,380
because that was it that's pretty much

1375
00:48:33,420 --> 00:48:35,700
all they had planned and then they

1376
00:48:34,380 --> 00:48:39,119
disappeared and went out of the party

1377
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:40,800
and the pleasure to find them chilling

1378
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:42,119
out upstairs at some point but then that

1379
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,560
was it that was just everything else was

1380
00:48:42,119 --> 00:48:45,780
just kind of filler in the way it didn't

1381
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:48,359
it doesn't wasn't really making part of

1382
00:48:45,780 --> 00:48:51,000
wasn't adding to the mystery in a way

1383
00:48:48,359 --> 00:48:52,980
but as I said luckily as we said they

1384
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,660
enjoyed it so that's the most important

1385
00:48:52,980 --> 00:48:56,520
thing

1386
00:48:53,660 --> 00:48:57,540
one of the most thank you thank you and

1387
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,700
that is again something they've

1388
00:48:57,540 --> 00:49:02,040
remembered out all the interactions

1389
00:48:59,700 --> 00:49:04,140
they've had with NPCs the bloody 50

1390
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:07,680
pages of NPCs they've met

1391
00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:09,480
that one and the the time Loop one a two

1392
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,099
that they remember you know all of them

1393
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,359
remember well you know sometimes as you

1394
00:49:11,099 --> 00:49:13,440
said some people have had a bad day and

1395
00:49:12,359 --> 00:49:16,079
they're not quite there they don't

1396
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:18,180
remember it totally fine I don't care

1397
00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:19,200
like most sessions you're gonna have

1398
00:49:18,180 --> 00:49:20,700
something like that where someone

1399
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,640
doesn't remember oh yeah we did speak to

1400
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:26,040
that person I'd do it all the time I'm

1401
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:29,700
like give me that recap because I have

1402
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:32,940
forgotten uh but those two situations

1403
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:35,160
funnily enough were two that all of them

1404
00:49:32,940 --> 00:49:36,359
remembered right so I have two quick

1405
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:39,599
things for something you said spark

1406
00:49:36,359 --> 00:49:41,460
sparked one so remind me about my LARP

1407
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:42,960
but the other thing is one of the things

1408
00:49:41,460 --> 00:49:46,800
that I will do in my games is I will

1409
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:49,619
often ask the players to recap

1410
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:51,300
what happened last session and this lets

1411
00:49:49,619 --> 00:49:52,920
me remember or figure out what they

1412
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:56,040
thought was important

1413
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,839
so like if I was like one of the key

1414
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,240
details of this mystery is the

1415
00:49:57,839 --> 00:50:01,859
left-handedness of the murderer right if

1416
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:04,740
I ask them to recap it and they don't

1417
00:50:01,859 --> 00:50:07,500
include the fact that the murderer was

1418
00:50:04,740 --> 00:50:09,060
left-handed then that's something I can

1419
00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:10,740
address in that session and rather than

1420
00:50:09,060 --> 00:50:12,839
me just saying oh you forgot I can just

1421
00:50:10,740 --> 00:50:14,880
have it come back up like when someone's

1422
00:50:12,839 --> 00:50:15,960
going over the clues like well here are

1423
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,579
the here were the clues you found again

1424
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,839
and it doesn't seem like it's such an

1425
00:50:17,579 --> 00:50:20,760
important detail that they then know

1426
00:50:18,839 --> 00:50:21,900
that it's super important but the fact

1427
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,480
that they didn't include in the recap

1428
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:26,819
tells me I need to reintroduce it into

1429
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,800
the story again so I'm a big fan of

1430
00:50:26,819 --> 00:50:30,780
asking them to do Recaps uh you know

1431
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,339
usually you know we rotate this person

1432
00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:34,200
does it this week this person is it that

1433
00:50:32,339 --> 00:50:35,880
week I just think that's very helpful

1434
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,339
again it's a deeming tool to figure out

1435
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,560
okay they completely forgot this thing

1436
00:50:38,339 --> 00:50:42,420
or they are way too focused on this

1437
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,099
thing it's just like a little uh helps

1438
00:50:42,420 --> 00:50:45,660
you free session but one of the events

1439
00:50:44,099 --> 00:50:48,300
that I run at my convention every year

1440
00:50:45,660 --> 00:50:50,760
is a d d inspired murder mystery LARP

1441
00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:52,859
again I love mysteries and one of the

1442
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,839
conceits that I built into that to kind

1443
00:50:52,859 --> 00:50:57,780
of solve not the problem that you had

1444
00:50:54,839 --> 00:51:00,359
but the concern you had is that in mind

1445
00:50:57,780 --> 00:51:02,280
there's a there's a murder mystery and

1446
00:51:00,359 --> 00:51:04,380
the captain of the Guard seals everyone

1447
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:07,559
in the castle and no one can leave leave

1448
00:51:04,380 --> 00:51:10,020
until the murderer is caught but I

1449
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:12,240
expressly say you don't have to find the

1450
00:51:10,020 --> 00:51:14,940
actual killer you have to build enough

1451
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:17,220
evidence to convince everyone else here

1452
00:51:14,940 --> 00:51:18,900
that that person did it and they're all

1453
00:51:17,220 --> 00:51:20,040
trying to do the same thing so if you

1454
00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:22,500
don't want to be the one that's

1455
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:24,420
convicted you've got to find evidence on

1456
00:51:22,500 --> 00:51:26,520
someone else it usually turns out they

1457
00:51:24,420 --> 00:51:28,140
find the right person but they don't

1458
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,099
have to so that could have been

1459
00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:31,440
something you could have built into

1460
00:51:29,099 --> 00:51:33,359
yours where it's not just that they have

1461
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,339
to murder the person but they have to

1462
00:51:33,359 --> 00:51:37,500
they have to frame a different person

1463
00:51:35,339 --> 00:51:39,660
whether it be a specific person or just

1464
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:41,579
anybody like you know there's like seven

1465
00:51:39,660 --> 00:51:43,559
people on the council one of the seven

1466
00:51:41,579 --> 00:51:45,240
on the council has to be the person that

1467
00:51:43,559 --> 00:51:46,740
gets framed for the murder so that

1468
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:48,240
encourages them to not just go in and

1469
00:51:46,740 --> 00:51:49,619
stab the person they have got to talk to

1470
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,420
people they've got to do research

1471
00:51:49,619 --> 00:51:53,540
because that's now part of the prompt

1472
00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:56,040
not just murder it's murder and frame

1473
00:51:53,540 --> 00:51:57,900
yeah I'm probably gonna run my whole

1474
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,579
campaign again at some point so these

1475
00:51:57,900 --> 00:52:00,900
I'm so these these provide a lot of

1476
00:51:59,579 --> 00:52:03,900
value these kind of discussions because

1477
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:05,520
it all gets all gets folded in and

1478
00:52:03,900 --> 00:52:06,900
locked away that sounds awesome that

1479
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,480
convention if I ever find myself in that

1480
00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:11,160
part of the world I'm gonna

1481
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:13,200
Dayton Ohio November is a terrible place

1482
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:16,280
to be but if you are unfortunately there

1483
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,280
come look us up

1484
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:21,000
um I was just trying to think I felt

1485
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:24,059
like there's one more thing to add there

1486
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:27,420
on my on my way in that example the

1487
00:52:24,059 --> 00:52:28,859
mystery ball they were tier two I think

1488
00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:30,900
so

1489
00:52:28,859 --> 00:52:33,839
they they had some powerful abilities

1490
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:35,579
but it wasn't still quite just like

1491
00:52:33,839 --> 00:52:38,819
I see into the future and see through

1492
00:52:35,579 --> 00:52:42,119
the walls and there he is and I float up

1493
00:52:38,819 --> 00:52:44,040
to him and kill him and they're ended up

1494
00:52:42,119 --> 00:52:46,400
chucking him in a bag of holding taking

1495
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:51,420
them to a different off-site location to

1496
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:53,940
to deal with him in the end and used the

1497
00:52:51,420 --> 00:52:57,059
fake murder mystery is like the getaway

1498
00:52:53,940 --> 00:53:00,240
vehicle almost the the hiding in plain

1499
00:52:57,059 --> 00:53:02,460
sight almost so yes that worked out

1500
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:04,200
quite well I do really like that twist I

1501
00:53:02,460 --> 00:53:05,339
gotta say the idea of having to commit a

1502
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,319
murder at a ball that's actually a

1503
00:53:05,339 --> 00:53:08,880
murder mystery ball is really good like

1504
00:53:07,319 --> 00:53:10,579
so Props do you want coming for that one

1505
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,780
before Ryan Johnson

1506
00:53:10,579 --> 00:53:15,300
the first person in the world I'm sure

1507
00:53:12,780 --> 00:53:18,240
to have come up with that idea is me uh

1508
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:21,260
absolutely quote me on that uh no don't

1509
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,260
cause like a seed uh

1510
00:53:21,380 --> 00:53:25,700
author in the ancient Greece that is

1511
00:53:23,940 --> 00:53:28,440
definitely thought of the same thing

1512
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:29,940
so yeah that's pretty much it those two

1513
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,859
with the two

1514
00:53:29,940 --> 00:53:33,839
kind of you know we're putting together

1515
00:53:31,859 --> 00:53:36,599
knowledge we're building it together a

1516
00:53:33,839 --> 00:53:37,920
piece of a picture or even creating the

1517
00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:40,200
pieces and in the case of the second

1518
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,180
example but yeah I think as we've as

1519
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:45,540
we've said several times the players had

1520
00:53:42,180 --> 00:53:48,240
fun I mainly had fun apart from the

1521
00:53:45,540 --> 00:53:49,400
usual DM Stress and Anxiety of dear God

1522
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:51,180
what's What's Happening Here

1523
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:54,359
[Laughter]

1524
00:53:51,180 --> 00:53:55,740
so yeah uh if you've got any examples

1525
00:53:54,359 --> 00:53:57,599
that are similar to that that are

1526
00:53:55,740 --> 00:53:59,760
probably better implemented then in

1527
00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:02,040
terms of those mysterious things or

1528
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,079
actually let me rephrase the question

1529
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:07,680
how do you instill a sense of mystery

1530
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:10,079
then maybe maybe on a more grander scale

1531
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,980
so it's very easy to have like there's a

1532
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:12,780
dead body

1533
00:54:10,980 --> 00:54:14,880
we don't know who killed them find out

1534
00:54:12,780 --> 00:54:16,200
that's the definition of dictionary

1535
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:19,079
definition of a mystery but in terms of

1536
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:21,660
like more of a campaign setting in the

1537
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:24,059
same way that curse of strad is very

1538
00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:26,819
Gothic and horror how do we go about

1539
00:54:24,059 --> 00:54:30,720
building a campaign or a setting that is

1540
00:54:26,819 --> 00:54:33,660
is more mysterious and full of Noir and

1541
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:34,980
things like that so the probably the

1542
00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:36,780
first thing that comes to my mind is

1543
00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:39,720
going back to that open communication

1544
00:54:36,780 --> 00:54:42,300
and just telling the players hey this

1545
00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:45,140
this session or this series of games or

1546
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:47,460
this campaign I Envision this as a very

1547
00:54:45,140 --> 00:54:49,140
murder-centric or excuse me mystery

1548
00:54:47,460 --> 00:54:51,300
Centric campaign

1549
00:54:49,140 --> 00:54:52,619
so I'm like lay out some of the trips

1550
00:54:51,300 --> 00:54:53,640
like there's going to be red herrings

1551
00:54:52,619 --> 00:54:56,160
there's going to be double crosses

1552
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:58,559
there's going to be multiple missing

1553
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,359
people or murders and if your players

1554
00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:01,800
are excited about that they will lean

1555
00:55:00,359 --> 00:55:04,079
into the tropes and they will start

1556
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:06,180
doing the work for you so they are going

1557
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:07,559
to say oh this is probably a red herring

1558
00:55:06,180 --> 00:55:08,940
but I'm going to chase it down anyways

1559
00:55:07,559 --> 00:55:11,760
because that's what would happen in this

1560
00:55:08,940 --> 00:55:13,500
type of story or I'm going to go off on

1561
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,880
my own because there's always that part

1562
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:16,260
in the story where the person goes off

1563
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,700
alone and they're probably going to be

1564
00:55:16,260 --> 00:55:19,680
attacked by the murderer that will allow

1565
00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:21,540
us to figure out some more information

1566
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,819
so if they buy into what you're trying

1567
00:55:21,540 --> 00:55:25,500
to do they will help you and rather than

1568
00:55:23,819 --> 00:55:28,079
the DM having to orchestrate everything

1569
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:30,480
like a omniscient Puppeteer which we are

1570
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:32,940
not sometimes we try to be and it's hard

1571
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:36,000
to do if your players are like helping

1572
00:55:32,940 --> 00:55:39,000
you this is so much easier get your

1573
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:41,099
players to help you that's tip tip of

1574
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,599
the one of the many several tips that's

1575
00:55:41,099 --> 00:55:44,819
been in this episode is get your players

1576
00:55:42,599 --> 00:55:49,700
to help you but without them knowing

1577
00:55:44,819 --> 00:55:49,700
boom that's the the sneaky

1578
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,160
um is there anything you want to talk

1579
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:55,559
about that we haven't quite hit yet that

1580
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:57,599
we haven't got to so just there are

1581
00:55:55,559 --> 00:56:00,059
other games that handle Mysteries

1582
00:55:57,599 --> 00:56:01,980
differently and you know as someone who

1583
00:56:00,059 --> 00:56:03,720
loves d d it's still my favorite game

1584
00:56:01,980 --> 00:56:06,240
I've played dozens if not hundreds of

1585
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:08,339
systems now but D's still the one I come

1586
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:10,200
back to is still my favorite uh I call

1587
00:56:08,339 --> 00:56:11,460
it the Waffle House of RPGs I don't know

1588
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,500
if you're familiar with Waffle House but

1589
00:56:11,460 --> 00:56:17,099
being in the UK uh it's sort of like a

1590
00:56:13,500 --> 00:56:18,900
diner and is it the best food no but it

1591
00:56:17,099 --> 00:56:20,579
does lots of different foods really well

1592
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:21,900
so like if you have someone who wants

1593
00:56:20,579 --> 00:56:23,280
spaghetti another person who wants a

1594
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:25,140
hamburger and another person who wants

1595
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,760
breakfast food you can all go to Waffle

1596
00:56:25,140 --> 00:56:28,500
House and you'll have a pretty good meal

1597
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,000
but you're not going to get sushi you're

1598
00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:31,800
not going to get a five-star steak there

1599
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,599
right so there are games that were

1600
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:36,059
developed specifically to handle

1601
00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:39,720
Mysteries and if you really like

1602
00:56:36,059 --> 00:56:41,339
Mysteries maybe play those games or at

1603
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:42,180
least try them and then you can steal

1604
00:56:41,339 --> 00:56:43,920
things

1605
00:56:42,180 --> 00:56:46,200
um there's gum shoe is one of the big

1606
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,700
ones because what can happen in d d if

1607
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,760
you're not careful is that they the

1608
00:56:47,700 --> 00:56:53,160
players will miss clue use because of

1609
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,140
bad skill checks like if you expect them

1610
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,660
to investigate the crime scene and learn

1611
00:56:55,140 --> 00:57:00,480
that the the victim was shorter than

1612
00:56:57,660 --> 00:57:02,099
their assailant that you lock that

1613
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,140
behind a skill check and they fail it

1614
00:57:02,099 --> 00:57:05,400
they don't get that information so then

1615
00:57:04,140 --> 00:57:06,660
they don't know that and it's just

1616
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,339
you're going to have a harder time

1617
00:57:06,660 --> 00:57:10,859
laying out a successful mystery if they

1618
00:57:08,339 --> 00:57:13,920
can't find Clues so games like gumshoe

1619
00:57:10,859 --> 00:57:16,319
you don't roll to find the clues you're

1620
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:19,079
just given the clues based off of how

1621
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:22,380
you approach the scene so if someone's

1622
00:57:19,079 --> 00:57:24,000
really good at Insight they might be the

1623
00:57:22,380 --> 00:57:26,040
one talking to the witnesses and they

1624
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,839
will Garner oh well I did see something

1625
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,400
it looked like this taller figure came

1626
00:57:27,839 --> 00:57:31,380
out of the Shadows but then disappeared

1627
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,780
or if they're more forensics there might

1628
00:57:31,380 --> 00:57:35,460
be something about the blood splatter or

1629
00:57:33,780 --> 00:57:37,740
where the weapon was found or how the

1630
00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:40,680
body was later the angle of the incision

1631
00:57:37,740 --> 00:57:43,680
of the blade whatever so you don't lock

1632
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:45,720
your Clues behind a skill check because

1633
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,000
then you can not get them and it can be

1634
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,920
a problem there's a newer game that just

1635
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,980
come out called brindlewood Bay a are

1636
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:54,960
you familiar with that one no so this is

1637
00:57:52,980 --> 00:57:57,540
a it's a power by the apocalypse Style

1638
00:57:54,960 --> 00:58:00,420
game where the conceit is you're playing

1639
00:57:57,540 --> 00:58:03,960
basically Murder She Wrote meets Golden

1640
00:58:00,420 --> 00:58:05,520
Girls Meets called Cthulhu so all the

1641
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:09,119
players are part of What's called the

1642
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:11,760
mystery maven's uh mystery Society your

1643
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:14,640
lovers of this book series that's sort

1644
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:17,160
of like a her called Perot or Christy

1645
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,660
style novel but you also get asked by

1646
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,880
the local law enforcement the bumbling

1647
00:58:18,660 --> 00:58:24,000
sheriff to help solve actual Murder

1648
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:25,680
Mysteries and over a campaign play there

1649
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,540
starts to become this underlying

1650
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,900
Supernatural element that's not revealed

1651
00:58:27,540 --> 00:58:31,920
in the first standpoint so you have

1652
00:58:29,900 --> 00:58:35,040
moves if you're familiar with the power

1653
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:37,559
by the apocalypse to help uncover Clues

1654
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:40,260
bad game is interesting because the idea

1655
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:44,099
that we don't know who the murderer is

1656
00:58:40,260 --> 00:58:45,540
is player facing so the DM doesn't go

1657
00:58:44,099 --> 00:58:48,900
into the mystery knowing who the

1658
00:58:45,540 --> 00:58:50,640
murderer is but you uncover Clues and

1659
00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:52,500
then at some point everyone including

1660
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,240
the DM get together and go well based

1661
00:58:52,500 --> 00:58:55,260
off the clues we have it must be this

1662
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,599
person

1663
00:58:55,260 --> 00:58:59,520
and so it's it's player Centric player

1664
00:58:57,599 --> 00:59:01,980
facing that you figure it out based off

1665
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:04,440
the clues it wasn't decided I actually

1666
00:59:01,980 --> 00:59:07,500
didn't like that element like if the DM

1667
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,940
had decided that the clues made sense

1668
00:59:07,500 --> 00:59:10,680
here and we thought it made sense and

1669
00:59:08,940 --> 00:59:12,240
the DM said yeah you're right I would

1670
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,200
have enjoyed it more the actual player

1671
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,319
facing

1672
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:18,000
part didn't work for me but it's

1673
00:59:16,319 --> 00:59:19,920
obviously other people it does so again

1674
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:22,020
just circle back try some of these other

1675
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,940
games that are really based on Mysteries

1676
00:59:22,020 --> 00:59:26,400
and if you still want to play D D just

1677
00:59:23,940 --> 00:59:28,619
incorporate some of those elements so

1678
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,240
the biggest for me is the clues you

1679
00:59:28,619 --> 00:59:31,740
can't lock Clues behind skilled checks

1680
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,819
in a murder mystery because then you're

1681
00:59:31,740 --> 00:59:35,160
almost guaranteed that they're going to

1682
00:59:32,819 --> 00:59:38,880
miss something you have to find a way of

1683
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:40,680
either more clues if you they roll well

1684
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,540
but there's like a baseline minimum like

1685
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:45,420
even if they botched the role they get

1686
00:59:42,540 --> 00:59:47,280
something or maybe even just again base

1687
00:59:45,420 --> 00:59:48,720
it off if they're talking to Witnesses

1688
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,520
they're going to get a clue of this

1689
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,020
level if they check the crime scene

1690
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,000
they'll get a level this type of thing

1691
00:59:52,020 --> 00:59:57,119
so you can still reward them for for

1692
00:59:54,000 --> 01:00:00,119
smart play or for Rolling well but

1693
00:59:57,119 --> 01:00:03,299
that's the ultimate sin of a DND murder

1694
01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:05,400
mystery is oh I got a 10 on my spot we

1695
01:00:03,299 --> 01:00:07,200
don't know something and now the game

1696
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,819
just comes to a crashing halt you have

1697
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:12,599
to find a way around that

1698
01:00:08,819 --> 01:00:14,579
yeah alongside the oh well how could I

1699
01:00:12,599 --> 01:00:15,720
ever have guessed that its evil brother

1700
01:00:14,579 --> 01:00:17,819
is

1701
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,020
well there's nothing for us to guess

1702
01:00:17,819 --> 01:00:20,280
because you just don't know anything we

1703
01:00:19,020 --> 01:00:22,819
just don't we just do not know something

1704
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:26,280
so yeah yeah those two are the equally

1705
01:00:22,819 --> 01:00:27,119
bad I would say fail States that's too

1706
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,640
strong a word because you can always

1707
01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:32,460
recover but the other two parts yeah

1708
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:34,200
that require more work to work your way

1709
01:00:32,460 --> 01:00:36,299
out of but that we've all done it like

1710
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,260
every DM at some point in their career

1711
01:00:36,299 --> 01:00:39,900
has gone

1712
01:00:37,260 --> 01:00:41,819
on the road with Advantage because it's

1713
01:00:39,900 --> 01:00:43,500
sunny outside and I really need you to

1714
01:00:41,819 --> 01:00:46,339
pass this one so it's you're feeling

1715
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:50,099
good because it's sunny so roll again

1716
01:00:46,339 --> 01:00:52,020
yeah 100 it happens even best of us do

1717
01:00:50,099 --> 01:00:53,220
the same thing but uh what I would say

1718
01:00:52,020 --> 01:00:56,460
is just

1719
01:00:53,220 --> 01:00:57,720
Whoever has the highest spot you just

1720
01:00:56,460 --> 01:00:59,460
tell them well looking at the crime

1721
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,619
scene you notice this but you can roll

1722
01:00:59,460 --> 01:01:04,260
and maybe get something better like I I

1723
01:01:01,619 --> 01:01:05,520
will have Baseline clues that my players

1724
01:01:04,260 --> 01:01:07,680
will get just because their characters

1725
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:09,680
are the heroes of the story they are the

1726
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:12,420
exceptional people the bubbling

1727
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:14,339
detectives didn't notice this but

1728
01:01:12,420 --> 01:01:15,960
because you have a plus five Insight you

1729
01:01:14,339 --> 01:01:17,760
notice it right away but if you're all

1730
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:19,200
really good I'll give you additional

1731
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,819
Clues

1732
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:23,460
one question I have for you in overtime

1733
01:01:20,819 --> 01:01:26,400
uh if you'll excuse me and it's

1734
01:01:23,460 --> 01:01:29,160
obviously genuine one a genuine one I

1735
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:31,980
want to know is do you always stick with

1736
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:34,020
the facts when you relay information to

1737
01:01:31,980 --> 01:01:36,180
the players or do you do you do some

1738
01:01:34,020 --> 01:01:38,099
inference on their behalf so do you

1739
01:01:36,180 --> 01:01:39,960
always say the incision was three

1740
01:01:38,099 --> 01:01:42,000
centimeters from their back shoulder

1741
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:44,940
blade and four centimeters you know from

1742
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:47,520
the spine and that's it or do you say

1743
01:01:44,940 --> 01:01:48,839
that implies they were attacked from

1744
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:50,520
behind

1745
01:01:48,839 --> 01:01:52,680
from a person who's shorter than them

1746
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:55,740
because it was only at that point on the

1747
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:58,079
back where do you which which end of the

1748
01:01:55,740 --> 01:01:59,640
scale yeah um again going back to that

1749
01:01:58,079 --> 01:02:01,740
three clue rule we started at the

1750
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:04,319
beginning I have found over my many many

1751
01:02:01,740 --> 01:02:07,079
years of running games that even the

1752
01:02:04,319 --> 01:02:09,119
most obvious things to me as the DM can

1753
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:11,339
sometimes be

1754
01:02:09,119 --> 01:02:13,079
shrouded to the players right I'm like

1755
01:02:11,339 --> 01:02:15,359
it's very clear who the bad guy is here

1756
01:02:13,079 --> 01:02:17,520
and they're like I just don't know

1757
01:02:15,359 --> 01:02:19,260
um so I will often infer those types of

1758
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,059
things like it you know based off the

1759
01:02:19,260 --> 01:02:23,700
wound this looks like someone that was

1760
01:02:21,059 --> 01:02:25,440
like savagely attacked you know there's

1761
01:02:23,700 --> 01:02:27,119
anger behind it this wasn't like a cold

1762
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,980
calculated assassination this is someone

1763
01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:31,380
who wanted Vengeance like I will fill in

1764
01:02:28,980 --> 01:02:34,020
those types of details if the players

1765
01:02:31,380 --> 01:02:35,640
are like I'll give them a moment like

1766
01:02:34,020 --> 01:02:38,339
I'll give them the beat that you know it

1767
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:40,859
appears that this is what it looks like

1768
01:02:38,339 --> 01:02:42,480
and if they go oh so attacker had to

1769
01:02:40,859 --> 01:02:44,579
have been taller then but yeah yeah you

1770
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:46,680
could definitely tell that uh and then I

1771
01:02:44,579 --> 01:02:47,880
might embellish a little bit more if if

1772
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:50,040
they're not doing those sorts of things

1773
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:52,260
like you know maybe the the hilt of the

1774
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:54,119
blade made a bruise Mark to show that

1775
01:02:52,260 --> 01:02:56,579
how savagely it was punching I don't

1776
01:02:54,119 --> 01:02:59,099
know I'm not actually a forensics uh you

1777
01:02:56,579 --> 01:03:01,559
know doctor or whatever but

1778
01:02:59,099 --> 01:03:03,000
with little but then I will add if

1779
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:04,619
they're not doing it themselves because

1780
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,880
again I think that I think that's part

1781
01:03:04,619 --> 01:03:07,559
of the mystery thing is where the

1782
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,480
Sherlock's like they were savagely

1783
01:03:07,559 --> 01:03:11,460
attacked by someone who they knew you

1784
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:15,540
know it's hard to get that across with

1785
01:03:11,460 --> 01:03:17,460
uh yeah math players on like players

1786
01:03:15,540 --> 01:03:19,619
often maybe some players out there are

1787
01:03:17,460 --> 01:03:21,420
but most players aren't police detective

1788
01:03:19,619 --> 01:03:23,339
inspectors so they cannot like we don't

1789
01:03:21,420 --> 01:03:24,839
have we don't have inherently after

1790
01:03:23,339 --> 01:03:28,200
school so have been in the force for

1791
01:03:24,839 --> 01:03:30,540
four years so I think that needs to be

1792
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:32,940
some helping hand and of course the risk

1793
01:03:30,540 --> 01:03:35,280
as well is that and I've done it I've

1794
01:03:32,940 --> 01:03:37,200
tried to be good and not infer anything

1795
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,599
and not a shoot you know you smell you

1796
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:41,040
feel like this no I I I've tried in the

1797
01:03:39,599 --> 01:03:43,680
past not to do any of that stuff and

1798
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:46,200
just stick to the objective facts but

1799
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:47,700
that runs the risk of because humans are

1800
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:48,900
we're all different and we all see

1801
01:03:47,700 --> 01:03:50,579
things and interpret things and

1802
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:53,180
experience things differently the

1803
01:03:50,579 --> 01:03:56,160
players assuming something

1804
01:03:53,180 --> 01:03:59,520
wildly off which then puts them down

1805
01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:01,559
some path that is just completely so

1806
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:03,839
instead of that incision implying that

1807
01:04:01,559 --> 01:04:06,599
the killer was taller because they could

1808
01:04:03,839 --> 01:04:08,640
get at that angle they've gone oh it

1809
01:04:06,599 --> 01:04:10,559
must be a ranged weapon from somewhere

1810
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:12,359
up high so maybe the killer was up over

1811
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:14,760
there rather than stabbing them in the

1812
01:04:12,359 --> 01:04:17,280
back and then the DM's like oh God no no

1813
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:18,540
no no no no no no that's that's don't do

1814
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,460
that

1815
01:04:18,540 --> 01:04:23,400
yeah so that and it's often a harder to

1816
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:24,839
kind of pull them back and of course as

1817
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,220
a school of thought that says well no

1818
01:04:24,839 --> 01:04:28,380
that's what you run with then you run

1819
01:04:26,220 --> 01:04:30,000
with the ranged Marksman up on the up on

1820
01:04:28,380 --> 01:04:32,700
the building opposite

1821
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,440
which I get yeah again if you have the

1822
01:04:32,700 --> 01:04:36,299
the capacity to do so yeah some games

1823
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,000
that would work for but yeah I think

1824
01:04:36,299 --> 01:04:40,980
there is a there's a fine line to like I

1825
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,780
guess to clarify like I used to do the

1826
01:04:40,980 --> 01:04:44,579
things where I would say your character

1827
01:04:42,780 --> 01:04:47,339
is afraid this is like a very simple

1828
01:04:44,579 --> 01:04:49,859
example I do not do that anymore because

1829
01:04:47,339 --> 01:04:51,119
uh that's player's agency and even

1830
01:04:49,859 --> 01:04:52,980
though they're in a scene where they

1831
01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:55,020
their characters might should be afraid

1832
01:04:52,980 --> 01:04:56,579
of their reasonable people if that

1833
01:04:55,020 --> 01:04:58,200
player wants to say well no I'm the one

1834
01:04:56,579 --> 01:05:00,960
that's very stoic and even in the face

1835
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:03,000
of uh unrelenting fear I am the one who

1836
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,760
doesn't feel fear okay great that's your

1837
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:08,040
character so I will say things like it's

1838
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:10,440
very likely that a person would feel

1839
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:12,119
fear in this moment but I still allow

1840
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,500
the players to decide for themselves how

1841
01:05:12,119 --> 01:05:15,960
their characters feel in the moment so

1842
01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:17,220
just as again as a very easy example so

1843
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,680
the same thing with like the attacks

1844
01:05:17,220 --> 01:05:21,960
like I probably wouldn't infer their

1845
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:23,579
like you feel sick to your stomach at

1846
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,980
seeing how savagely this person was

1847
01:05:23,579 --> 01:05:27,780
attacked that's I'm I'm pushing on their

1848
01:05:25,980 --> 01:05:29,520
character but I would say this appears

1849
01:05:27,780 --> 01:05:32,520
to have been a very Savage attack the

1850
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:34,500
person wanted the victim to feel pain

1851
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:36,059
not just die because I still think we're

1852
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:37,680
in the Realms of facts but we're

1853
01:05:36,059 --> 01:05:39,660
embellishing a little bit of like

1854
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,700
motivation or something to the attacker

1855
01:05:39,660 --> 01:05:43,140
not to the player so it is a fine line

1856
01:05:41,700 --> 01:05:46,200
but I do see a difference there I agree

1857
01:05:43,140 --> 01:05:47,880
with I try not to push how the players

1858
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,140
feel or think but I might give them

1859
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,480
additional information on what the

1860
01:05:49,140 --> 01:05:53,400
killer was thinking or feeling yeah it's

1861
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:55,920
it's an all it's a it is an art form

1862
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:58,319
like it is very tricky to to walk that

1863
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,940
thin line between giving away too much

1864
01:05:58,319 --> 01:06:01,559
and not giving away enough that the

1865
01:05:59,940 --> 01:06:03,059
players get frustrated and Confused it

1866
01:06:01,559 --> 01:06:05,160
is you know it's one of those things

1867
01:06:03,059 --> 01:06:08,099
that for all our talking that's over an

1868
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:09,900
hour like experience does a lot of a

1869
01:06:08,099 --> 01:06:11,579
heavy lifting which is why as you said

1870
01:06:09,900 --> 01:06:12,599
try new systems and try new things

1871
01:06:11,579 --> 01:06:15,059
because that's how you get that

1872
01:06:12,599 --> 01:06:16,980
experience then at the other side you go

1873
01:06:15,059 --> 01:06:18,000
ah okay I've been in this situation

1874
01:06:16,980 --> 01:06:19,260
before

1875
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,599
I need to give them a little bit more

1876
01:06:19,260 --> 01:06:23,760
here and I just want to finish on the

1877
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:25,200
talking about not telling players how

1878
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:28,079
they feel the ironic thing is I've

1879
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:29,520
played in the game once where one of the

1880
01:06:28,079 --> 01:06:31,020
players was like

1881
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,539
I don't know if my character would run

1882
01:06:31,020 --> 01:06:35,579
away or not DM would my character run

1883
01:06:33,539 --> 01:06:37,380
away and then he was like well you could

1884
01:06:35,579 --> 01:06:40,680
you can roll for it if you want but

1885
01:06:37,380 --> 01:06:43,680
right that's a new decision yeah so it

1886
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:45,420
can go both ways you know there are

1887
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:48,180
sometimes players out there that like I

1888
01:06:45,420 --> 01:06:49,920
just don't know I need I need the dice I

1889
01:06:48,180 --> 01:06:51,780
need someone else to to help me that's

1890
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:53,160
in my experience pretty rare but I

1891
01:06:51,780 --> 01:06:54,780
actually have seen something similar in

1892
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,700
my case my advice there is a demon I'd

1893
01:06:54,780 --> 01:06:58,799
say okay have them roll saping through

1894
01:06:56,700 --> 01:07:00,660
like that's kind of the mechanic for

1895
01:06:58,799 --> 01:07:02,940
that if I was trying to cause like a

1896
01:07:00,660 --> 01:07:04,680
magical fear there's a saving throw to

1897
01:07:02,940 --> 01:07:06,359
resist so I would just say do the same

1898
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,099
thing here this is a saving throw DC

1899
01:07:06,359 --> 01:07:10,200
whatever if you pass you don't have to

1900
01:07:08,099 --> 01:07:12,720
run away if you fail you will yep

1901
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:15,180
precisely another tool in the in the

1902
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:16,380
belt and Tool in the toolbox well thank

1903
01:07:15,180 --> 01:07:19,500
you for today but uh is there anything

1904
01:07:16,380 --> 01:07:21,180
you would like to plug or promote I

1905
01:07:19,500 --> 01:07:22,859
absolutely would um again I don't

1906
01:07:21,180 --> 01:07:24,299
exactly know excuse me when this is

1907
01:07:22,859 --> 01:07:26,640
going to come out but I have my first

1908
01:07:24,299 --> 01:07:28,680
game that I wrote coming to Kickstarter

1909
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:30,420
at the end of February February 28th

1910
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:32,640
it's going to run for about three weeks

1911
01:07:30,420 --> 01:07:33,660
it's going to end on March 22nd I

1912
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:35,220
believe and if this comes out after

1913
01:07:33,660 --> 01:07:36,780
that's totally fine there'll still be

1914
01:07:35,220 --> 01:07:39,660
ways to you know people to support it

1915
01:07:36,780 --> 01:07:42,420
get it but it is a game called action 12

1916
01:07:39,660 --> 01:07:45,180
cinema and it is a love letter to three

1917
01:07:42,420 --> 01:07:48,180
of my favorite things bad but yet fun

1918
01:07:45,180 --> 01:07:49,680
action movies the D12 which is the

1919
01:07:48,180 --> 01:07:51,599
Pinnacle of the polyhedral it's the most

1920
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:53,280
fun die to roll at the table and

1921
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:54,900
collaborative storytelling so again

1922
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:57,299
hopefully it came across this interview

1923
01:07:54,900 --> 01:07:58,619
or this discussion I love improv

1924
01:07:57,299 --> 01:07:59,940
storytelling at the table it's one of my

1925
01:07:58,619 --> 01:08:02,039
favorite things to do both as a player

1926
01:07:59,940 --> 01:08:04,140
as a DM so I've taken those three things

1927
01:08:02,039 --> 01:08:06,539
together mush them together in a gmless

1928
01:08:04,140 --> 01:08:09,240
game so there is no GM for basically

1929
01:08:06,539 --> 01:08:11,579
everybody's the GM where you tell these

1930
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:13,380
just over-the-top action movie story so

1931
01:08:11,579 --> 01:08:16,319
think any of the Fast and the Furious

1932
01:08:13,380 --> 01:08:18,239
movies rrr would be a good movie those

1933
01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:19,859
are probably both better movies than the

1934
01:08:18,239 --> 01:08:22,020
stories that my game tells are more like

1935
01:08:19,859 --> 01:08:24,600
B or C Level but that's sort of over the

1936
01:08:22,020 --> 01:08:26,279
top Anything Can Happen people can like

1937
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:28,020
pick up a motorcycle and slap someone

1938
01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:29,640
with it even though they're not super

1939
01:08:28,020 --> 01:08:31,140
strong those are the types of things

1940
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,480
that can happen in this game

1941
01:08:31,140 --> 01:08:34,859
I would love people to check it out uh

1942
01:08:33,480 --> 01:08:36,660
hopefully support against my first time

1943
01:08:34,859 --> 01:08:38,520
actually writing an actual game

1944
01:08:36,660 --> 01:08:39,900
beginning to middle and end I'm very

1945
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,339
excited about sharing it there's a few

1946
01:08:39,900 --> 01:08:43,140
places you can like listen to games

1947
01:08:41,339 --> 01:08:45,900
being played some streams are out there

1948
01:08:43,140 --> 01:08:48,839
but uh yeah if you just go to the RPG

1949
01:08:45,900 --> 01:08:50,940
Academy on anywhere generally Twitter

1950
01:08:48,839 --> 01:08:53,040
that's where I'm most active I'm sure

1951
01:08:50,940 --> 01:08:54,900
there'll be links in my BIOS and Pen

1952
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:56,940
tweets and everything but I love for

1953
01:08:54,900 --> 01:08:59,100
people to check it out awesome yeah that

1954
01:08:56,940 --> 01:09:01,020
sounds great I love 80s and 90s action

1955
01:08:59,100 --> 01:09:03,540
films they're fantastic yeah absolutely

1956
01:09:01,020 --> 01:09:05,339
I'm all over that well the timing should

1957
01:09:03,540 --> 01:09:06,839
be perfect and if those are interested

1958
01:09:05,339 --> 01:09:07,980
the links will be in the episode

1959
01:09:06,839 --> 01:09:09,060
description so I would encourage

1960
01:09:07,980 --> 01:09:10,140
everybody to go and check that out and

1961
01:09:09,060 --> 01:09:12,660
support Michael

1962
01:09:10,140 --> 01:09:14,400
otherwise for real this time the only

1963
01:09:12,660 --> 01:09:16,199
thing that's left to say is thank you

1964
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,699
ever so much Michael that was really a

1965
01:09:16,199 --> 01:09:19,440
really interesting discussion and we

1966
01:09:17,699 --> 01:09:21,900
talked about a whole bunch of

1967
01:09:19,440 --> 01:09:23,279
very useful interesting things somehow

1968
01:09:21,900 --> 01:09:24,779
still within the realm of mystery so

1969
01:09:23,279 --> 01:09:25,980
thank you so much I had a blast thank

1970
01:09:24,779 --> 01:09:28,739
you for having me it really was a good

1971
01:09:25,980 --> 01:09:30,779
time my pleasure thanks to everyone for

1972
01:09:28,739 --> 01:09:32,759
listening at home of course please do

1973
01:09:30,779 --> 01:09:33,839
check out all our socials and the links

1974
01:09:32,759 --> 01:09:36,060
in the episode description below

1975
01:09:33,839 --> 01:09:38,160
otherwise thank you all for listening

1976
01:09:36,060 --> 01:09:39,900
and good night

1977
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:42,120
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1978
01:09:39,900 --> 01:09:44,759
outs huge thank you to all my patrons

1979
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:47,160
starting with Josh lewinika and Glenn

1980
01:09:44,759 --> 01:09:48,719
the three fabulous toasts of tabletop

1981
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:51,299
Journeys who've been on the show several

1982
01:09:48,719 --> 01:09:53,819
times before and who I'll always invite

1983
01:09:51,299 --> 01:09:57,719
back to go check out tabletop Journeys

1984
01:09:53,819 --> 01:10:00,840
at ttjourneys.com or at TT Journeys on

1985
01:09:57,719 --> 01:10:03,540
Twitter we also have Joe from the fourth

1986
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:06,540
leg podcast book us all about giving DMS

1987
01:10:03,540 --> 01:10:08,219
another leg to stand on again previous

1988
01:10:06,540 --> 01:10:09,360
guests of the show and I'd thoroughly

1989
01:10:08,219 --> 01:10:11,820
encourage you to go and check out their

1990
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:14,040
great content so you can find them at

1991
01:10:11,820 --> 01:10:15,360
the fourthleg on Twitter

1992
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,160
was it a good friend of the show

1993
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:19,380
optional rule you can go and find him

1994
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:21,960
out on optional rule.com or at optional

1995
01:10:19,380 --> 01:10:24,000
Rule full of very insightful and

1996
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:27,780
educated comments and thoughts and

1997
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:29,400
threads on the really nitty-gritty of d

1998
01:10:27,780 --> 01:10:32,760
d we have

1999
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:34,199
what a guy Matthew Perkins who is just

2000
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,300
out there in the world trying to make

2001
01:10:34,199 --> 01:10:39,719
you laugh so go and check him out at

2002
01:10:36,300 --> 01:10:43,620
Matthew perkins.net or at hey it's Matty

2003
01:10:39,719 --> 01:10:45,600
P m-a-t-t-y-p and good friend of the

2004
01:10:43,620 --> 01:10:48,540
show and one of my table mates Matthew

2005
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:52,260
Street go and check out his partner's

2006
01:10:48,540 --> 01:10:55,760
hustle at virtualtime hustle.com or at

2007
01:10:52,260 --> 01:10:55,760
mp street88 on Twitter

2008
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:18,060
[Music]