Motion

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 17

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of thinking critically today's episode

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is motion

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by the cast of the

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fourth leg podcast thank you ever so

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much for joining us today guys can you

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tell us a little bit about yourselves

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i'm joe i'm kelsey

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and i'm hunter we are the hosts and i am

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the editor of the fourth leg we're a

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tabletop gaming show all about giving

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new gm's a like to stand on and the

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entire purpose of our show is to

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provide a comprehensive a to b segmented

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show about how to get started as a gm

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starting in simple topics like session

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zeros and coming up with king pain

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concepts and then finally eventually

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getting into more abstract stuff like

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what is real

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so give us a listen amazing thank you so

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much i'm i'm very much looking forward

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to this episode and you guys are gonna

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be

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exceptionally qualified for today's

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weird-ish

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topic based on what you just described

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uh today's topic on that note is

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motion so i'm going to open the floor

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and say what is that

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notion

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if your pardon the

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notion of the motion the last minute pun

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yeah that jumped into my head and for a

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minute i was like should i say that is

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that funny or is that lame and you know

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i took a gambit uh

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steer into the skin

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so what does that mean to you in the dnd

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framework

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if somebody else wants to go first

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because my brain immediately went to art

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because um my day job is being a comic

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artist so motion

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is a very different implication for me

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in that respect

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yeah so i think there are several

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different ways you can look at motion uh

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in a ttrpg

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mindset there's you know moving around

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the board in any kind of game that

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embraces any style of tactics but

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there's also you know moving the story

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or the plot forward

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which can make for some some interesting

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or

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difficult moments depending on the group

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that you have with you

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yeah one one thing

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that i thought was very very interesting

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in my

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research for today's

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topic and we will loop back around to

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kelsey because i am not very much not an

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artist so i'm very interested to see

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what you have to say on that topic there

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but um

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um so so the webster's dictionary

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defines motion uh as

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the process of moving or being moved

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which i think

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when i

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apply that to a ttrpg

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setting it immediately rings not alarm

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bells in my head but it is really

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triggering my my synapses from a dm's

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perspective in terms of like

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how to

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essentially put things in motion when

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you are inherently

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not in control of that motion as a dm so

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with that in mind what do you got what

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are your guys's take on that oh that is

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a good question hey

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if you don't mind me hopping in here

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first i

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really enjoy as a gm

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taking my players and forcing situations

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in their uh immediate vicinity right so

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we'll just take a true life stance on

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this real quick and we'll say

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if you're driving a car

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and you pull up and you

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legally stop at a light or a sign or

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you're going the speed limit

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and somebody else hits your car

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you did everything right and something

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still happened to you something still

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exerted itself onto you right

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so as a gm i think that it is well

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within our rights to

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tastefully uh impose certain things onto

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or around our players in order to

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push them towards a certain direction or

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push them towards the direction of the

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plot in this case

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so

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if your players walk into a new town

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and there's a person being harassed on

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the sidewalk there are a couple of

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different things that you can do about

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that either they are compelled to go

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help that person because this is

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happening in their vicinity or if they

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don't help that person then

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they could get a negative reputation

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among certain people in the town or and

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there's a lot of different directions

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you can go with that but no matter what

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you're

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just one marble kind of starting this

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whole thread of possible scenarios just

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by putting that one thing in their range

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of vision

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so i think as a as a gm when you're

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causing the party to move

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it needs to be a little bit more on that

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subtle end because you can't be a bull

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in a china shop about it otherwise it's

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not really a game anymore it's just

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you're you're forcing them to be

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characters in your story

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but you can definitely

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just kind of very gently push them in a

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certain direction and a lot of times

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players have this um

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especially in d d where the whole point

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is to be like this fantasy epic hero

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the players have this kind of

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preconceived notion of heroism about

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them so they're more likely to go and do

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the heroic thing which kind of helps you

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adjust what you're going to throw their

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way

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oh yeah absolutely

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that when you said uh doing something

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extreme like a bowl in a china shop my

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first reaction was um there was one gm

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who recommended hey do you need to get

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your plot moving steal something from

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the party and i'm like well that's a way

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to do it

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i'm not sure that that's how i would do

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it but it is certainly a way if you are

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stuck on how to get the party moving or

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going in a particular direction just

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have an npc

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steal something from the party and then

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the party has to try and find it that's

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not necessarily something that i like

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making my players do

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a lot of

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the motion in the campaign that i'm

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currently running is pretty dependent on

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the players but the players are pretty

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active agents

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like

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maybe they're not like super duper

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heroic okay maybe one of them is super

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duper hero like it's the tiefling bard

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is the one that's like i'm going to be

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friendly and i'm going to help everybody

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and i'm going to be friends with

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everyone and i'm like okay so you are

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going to be the active agent so i'm

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going to throw all kinds of stuff

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that

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might upset you

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but that's also just like the challenge

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as a dm is like knowing the

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personalities of your players and being

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like okay so this player is playing a

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character that's

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kind of quiet but also quietly driven in

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their quest to search for something so

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let's pepper in a few things like maybe

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they'll notice in a subtle way and then

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as soon as they notice it have them

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react to it and there's

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there's been times in other campaigns

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where

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i've had other quiet players

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who will just sit there and they'll let

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the loud characters do their loud thing

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and then i'll pepper in a little like

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sprinkle

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of their backstory somewhere and then

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that quiet player suddenly becomes very

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loud and they're just like i'll be right

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back and then they'd leave and i'm like

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oh this is interesting so that's emotion

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right there

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[Laughter]

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and

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if you don't mind me tagging back in

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before you come on joe

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sure

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i

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want to give it a little bit from the

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players perspective too because you know

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we we talk on our show all the time

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about gm's perspective and you know how

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to for lack of a better term manage your

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players into getting a result that is

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within the realm of what you want right

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oh yeah so

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as a player

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one of the ways that you can engage the

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rest of your party into motion

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is to

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kind of engage with your own backstory i

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guess is the best way to say it so you

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know things about yourself as a player

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that nobody else at the table is going

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to know

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so i played in a star wars game last

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night

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and one of the ways that i engaged with

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my own backstory with my own character

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was uh i'm a computer guy i'm a tech

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nerd you know i'm a mechanic

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and

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my

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comms got hacked

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right

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which was not a good thing but i was

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able to isolate it to just me so i was

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like okay this is damage control and

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when i got back to the party i figured

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out that one of them had stolen a droid

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from

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the enemy and i'm like there are so many

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things that they could have put in that

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droid that you did not know to check for

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and it caused some pretty mild conflict

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but it drove the story forward because

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it engaged everybody in that dialogue of

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what if there is something wrong here

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what if like there's there's a plant

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what if there's somebody who's turned

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their backs on us what if there's

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somebody who's betrayed us and just

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because i was like oh

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i was able to isolate it to mind but i

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brought it to the party that there was

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an issue

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with my communicator with this droid and

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it was just a snowball effect of

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asking a question from the perspective

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of my own story

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and then engaging everybody else in that

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question

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yes

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i'm gonna put the hat on and play

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devil's advocate for a second i would

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even argue that

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personal development is still motion

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you may not be moving like the

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overarching plot forward but like

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there are plenty of shows where you know

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we get a

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10 to 15 minute b plot or c plot where

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you know a character grows and and

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learns a lesson or

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becomes something more i mean a lot of

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zuko's stuff in avatar which we've

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referenced several times is like b and c

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plot at times but he ends up becoming

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you know a more credible part of the

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main group

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after that important character

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development

286
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,399
yeah thank you for mentioning avatar

287
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,920
because

288
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:32,560
it's amazing

289
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,399
and since eco especially is fantastic so

290
00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:37,440
no i it's very interesting when you put

291
00:10:34,399 --> 00:10:39,279
you know use that comparison i've never

292
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,800
thought about it in that way before but

293
00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:42,000
it is true with that as you said like

294
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,480
the b and the c

295
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,399
stories but then eventually

296
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,760
like he's a fan favorite for every

297
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:48,720
reason right

298
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,480
yeah

299
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,720
and also throwing that up and throwing

300
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,480
this out here um my roommate and i have

301
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,959
actually been watching the original

302
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,800
cowboy bebop on netflix

303
00:10:56,959 --> 00:10:59,519
not the live-action remake the original

304
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,240
one

305
00:10:59,519 --> 00:11:06,399
and that show is nothing but

306
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,760
b plots and c plots and just characters

307
00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:08,560
doing their thing

308
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,640
so

309
00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:13,839
if you want like a pretty good example

310
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:16,720
of that sort of thing just it's only 26

311
00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:18,560
episodes long it's not that long

312
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,079
and actually cowboy bebop is a great

313
00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,680
thing to bring up here because when

314
00:11:20,079 --> 00:11:23,200
we're talking about

315
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:24,720
motion especially in a long-term

316
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,720
campaign

317
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,560
like dan brought up before we started

318
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,519
recording that he's in a long-term dnd

319
00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:32,000
campaign

320
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:34,160
i am as well that's been going on for

321
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,880
about a year and a half now

322
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:38,079
and well congratulations oh thank you

323
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,279
very much

324
00:11:38,079 --> 00:11:40,800
um

325
00:11:39,279 --> 00:11:42,800
one of the ways that i've kept that

326
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,440
interesting is by

327
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,920
engaging those b and c plots and making

328
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,519
those the main threads of the story

329
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,480
until

330
00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:53,519
the actual story has time to mature

331
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,560
right

332
00:11:53,519 --> 00:11:57,600
so

333
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:59,519
in cowboy be pop the main story is

334
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,360
pretty much exclusively told through

335
00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:02,560
flashback until the last three or four

336
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,000
episodes

337
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:06,079
and it's such an interesting

338
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,839
storytelling mechanic because you get to

339
00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:10,240
focus so much on the characters and

340
00:12:07,839 --> 00:12:12,959
their development and how they grow

341
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:16,079
towards the inevitable climax

342
00:12:12,959 --> 00:12:18,160
without ever really touching on the main

343
00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:20,639
flow of the story

344
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,560
as it stands and it has that time to

345
00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:24,399
mature and you ask all of these

346
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:27,120
questions in the back of your mind until

347
00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:29,279
finally they're all answered in like a

348
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,680
rush and it's so interesting it's one of

349
00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:34,160
the reasons cowboy bebop is one of if

350
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:37,200
not the greatest anime ever made uh at

351
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:39,839
least in its genre yes so

352
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:42,480
don't be afraid as a storyteller or even

353
00:12:39,839 --> 00:12:44,959
as a player to engage with those b and c

354
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:47,920
plots your main story does not need to

355
00:12:44,959 --> 00:12:50,880
be your main story for the entire run of

356
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:54,079
your campaign you can engage with that

357
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:57,519
when it's convenient or when it makes

358
00:12:54,079 --> 00:12:59,519
sense without losing momentum

359
00:12:57,519 --> 00:13:01,680
yep and sometimes you won't even know

360
00:12:59,519 --> 00:13:04,880
what your a plot is until you get all of

361
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:07,200
your player characters together

362
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:10,000
and then you have your first session or

363
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:12,160
your session zero and you actually

364
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,480
bounce around ideas and then

365
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:17,440
an a plot solidifies i've had that

366
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,959
happen before too absolutely

367
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,880
yeah there's

368
00:13:18,959 --> 00:13:22,240
i i like this train of thought because

369
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,920
there is often

370
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,519
it's a double-edged sword now i'm saying

371
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,200
it out loud because i wanted to talk

372
00:13:25,519 --> 00:13:29,760
about earlier on how

373
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,800
as i opened this questioning with you

374
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:35,040
know as a gm one of your roles in a way

375
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,200
is to make sure or to

376
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,040
ensure there's some kind of forward

377
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,560
momentum

378
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,920
but i also and

379
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:43,279
the reason why that's a bit of a taboo

380
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,959
subject is because it's like lack of

381
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:46,320
agency and railroading and you go down

382
00:13:44,959 --> 00:13:48,560
that kind of

383
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,320
road of discussion but then on the same

384
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:52,480
on the other side of the coin it's you

385
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,480
have the players as well who are just as

386
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,680
that's the ironic thing right

387
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,720
in a way that

388
00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:01,440
their agency is in their own hands

389
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,040
to pull on those those b and c plots oh

390
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,279
yeah to put on the you know those

391
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,720
backstory threads to bring them to the

392
00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:07,760
forefront and that's

393
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,680
you know any

394
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,240
you know a dm should be willing to

395
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:13,839
accommodate that and making that the

396
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,360
prime focus of that session or however

397
00:14:13,839 --> 00:14:17,519
many sessions it might be

398
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:20,399
absolutely and there's a very big

399
00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:23,199
difference between say

400
00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:25,360
writing a story for a

401
00:14:23,199 --> 00:14:26,160
tabletop rpg

402
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,120
that

403
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:31,360
engages players versus

404
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,519
writing a story that you adapt into a

405
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,920
novel or a comic or something because

406
00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:38,800
that was an adjustment

407
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,720
even a video game like you uh

408
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,360
you have a lot of stuff where and that's

409
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,639
something you run into with with gm who

410
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,639
have players complaining about lack of

411
00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:47,760
agency it's like oh well you know we're

412
00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:49,360
going to go over there we don't really

413
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,720
want to engage with that oh well you

414
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,000
can't go over there

415
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,279
because

416
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,480
x y and z

417
00:14:53,279 --> 00:14:57,279
like i think

418
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:59,120
with hunters like events like you you

419
00:14:57,279 --> 00:15:01,120
toss the event out the event is the only

420
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,199
scripted thing and then whatever the

421
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,760
players do or how they respond to it is

422
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:07,839
totally up to them

423
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,920
yeah the event is going to happen no

424
00:15:07,839 --> 00:15:12,000
matter what but the players are in full

425
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,240
and complete control over how they

426
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,399
engage in the moment and how they react

427
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:19,199
afterward they don't necessarily have to

428
00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:21,680
follow up on that event in in any way

429
00:15:19,199 --> 00:15:23,120
but typically speaking again leaning on

430
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,839
that heroic

431
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,199
preconception of themselves that these

432
00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:28,959
characters have

433
00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:30,399
typically they're going to engage with

434
00:15:28,959 --> 00:15:32,959
one of these

435
00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:34,399
area altering events in a in a heroic

436
00:15:32,959 --> 00:15:35,920
way

437
00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:37,519
so there are certain things that you can

438
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,759
predict but there are definitely things

439
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:41,680
that are going to catch you out of left

440
00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:42,780
field because if there's like an

441
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,000
invasion from

442
00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:44,959
[Music]

443
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,360
i don't know

444
00:15:44,959 --> 00:15:50,000
let's just use a dnd classic and say an

445
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,519
orcish tribe invades a small town that

446
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,120
you're in

447
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:55,440
typically speaking

448
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,480
a d d party is going to stand up against

449
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,720
this

450
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,560
these tribesmen and try to save people

451
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,680
right or try to drive them out

452
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,160
completely

453
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,680
typically yes yes yeah

454
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,519
every now and again you're going to get

455
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,040
that party that's like

456
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:11,360
i don't know man i've always thought

457
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,480
orcs were pretty cool and then be like

458
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:16,079
hey let's help these boys out

459
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,759
and then you'll have parties like mine

460
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:19,440
where i played a half work druid who

461
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:21,519
just came up to the orcs and was like

462
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,000
hey my dudes how you doing what's going

463
00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:26,320
on why are you down here causing a fuss

464
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,320
man

465
00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:30,880
because that actually happened once in a

466
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,880
session

467
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,839
but that's i mean that's part of agency

468
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,000
like that's

469
00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:38,079
that's an opportunity to move the story

470
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,920
forward it may not be in uh

471
00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:40,800
let's knock out all the orcs and you

472
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,199
know

473
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:46,320
kick him out of town but it is driving

474
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:48,480
the story forward it is yeah absolutely

475
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,480
the story can drive forward regardless

476
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,240
of how it turns out like i mentioned

477
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,839
this in a previous episode of the fourth

478
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,000
leg which you can totally listen to by

479
00:16:53,839 --> 00:16:58,079
the way hinting twink wink but

480
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,560
um that yeah shameless plug out of the

481
00:16:58,079 --> 00:17:02,800
way but in an episode i had mentioned

482
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:05,600
that there was a

483
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,120
segment where my player characters had

484
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,079
gone into a world

485
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:13,679
and a tiger came out of the woods and

486
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:17,679
attacked them out of self-defense and

487
00:17:13,679 --> 00:17:19,839
i fully expected like a combat encounter

488
00:17:17,679 --> 00:17:20,720
and then the bard ruled really really

489
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,640
high

490
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,000
on her persuasion check and was like no

491
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,240
no no we don't want to fight we don't

492
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,360
want to fight you we want to be friends

493
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,760
and

494
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:32,240
i being the dm i was like okay

495
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,679
so i let's get into the tiger's head for

496
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,000
a second what would the tiger do next

497
00:17:33,679 --> 00:17:38,880
and then i was like and then the tiger

498
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,880
starts crying

499
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:46,000
the situation changed from like a combat

500
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:48,720
encounter to they befriended the tiger

501
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:51,520
and the tiger led the party to his

502
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,360
secret hideout and that can be emotion

503
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,520
in its own way because it's like hey

504
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:57,360
instead of having the players like do

505
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,200
investigation checks to try to find this

506
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:03,360
hideout maybe they just befriend the

507
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:06,160
tiger and persuade the tiger to lead him

508
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:08,400
where it is that he goes

509
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,679
so you mentioned in during that

510
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,919
discussion there

511
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:14,960
two kinds of parties

512
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:16,799
uh regarding the invasion of this town

513
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,640
uh the ones that are you know quote

514
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:20,799
unquote typically heroic and you know

515
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,200
rally to the defense of the town and you

516
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:25,039
know welcome to cheers and praise and

517
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,280
the townsfolk and then you have the ones

518
00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:28,640
that are like no no let's let's see what

519
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,559
it is from the other side let's see if

520
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,720
we can end this

521
00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:33,760
in a compromise or whatever it may be

522
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,799
now

523
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,480
or you might have a party party c in

524
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:40,160
this hypothetical situation which

525
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,039
happens to be very similar to mine in

526
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:45,360
some cases where

527
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:47,600
they abstain and

528
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:49,840
go well not my problem i don't it's not

529
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,720
my town it's not my friends and

530
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,640
basically have zero emotion in that

531
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,559
given instance so

532
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,440
this is a this is an open question then

533
00:18:56,559 --> 00:18:59,360
for you

534
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,679
half for the show and half for my own

535
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:03,760
benefit

536
00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:06,320
on what you know how do you deal with

537
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:08,720
that those situations when

538
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,799
the party or

539
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,960
particularly charismatic player

540
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:15,200
characters or indeed players

541
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,760
have persuaded the motion of the party

542
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,880
to essentially stop for whatever reason

543
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,640
maybe

544
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,039
nine times out of ten it'll be benign

545
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,919
you know they're unaware that

546
00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:27,840
this is going to hamper storytelling but

547
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:30,080
how do you how do you

548
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:33,120
work with that situation

549
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:35,360
i think uh and again i think i know that

550
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:37,440
it's not uh it's not motion in the the

551
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,720
direction of the conflict that you've

552
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,720
set up

553
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,280
but uh again that's still the still

554
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,960
valid motion away from something like

555
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,640
there are times where the party is going

556
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,400
to see a conflict and be like oh no

557
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,080
we're way out class or we don't want to

558
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,000
deal with xyz because it's going to

559
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,080
cause us a bunch of problems like and

560
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,240
they run away like

561
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,520
it sucks but it's part of the story i

562
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,120
mean uh

563
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,120
take uh

564
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:02,640
last jedi i think

565
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,559
where uh

566
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,559
they're going to to get this guy off

567
00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:08,400
this plane this gambler off this planet

568
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:10,000
and finn's like yeah

569
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,679
i don't think i'm gonna come back like

570
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,840
i'm i'm good

571
00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:15,600
like he's uh he's that coward that

572
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,200
coward player who's like yeah i don't

573
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,039
really know and that's that's still an

574
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,120
opportunity for that growth

575
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:22,559
um now there may be some consequences

576
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,240
within the game world because they

577
00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:26,640
didn't interfere

578
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,080
uh but i mean at the end of the day

579
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,280
again still character growth still

580
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,320
motion

581
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:35,280
yeah so there was actually a situation

582
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:38,159
in another campaign that i had run it

583
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,960
didn't last super duper long because

584
00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:43,039
at one point we got a guest player in

585
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,640
who proved to be a problem and it and

586
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:46,320
the group just kind of fell apart after

587
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,039
that but before

588
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,200
that problem character came in

589
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:54,000
the party that i had

590
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,760
i started up the campaign and i was

591
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,320
actually revisiting

592
00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,880
a campaign that i had run

593
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,320
two years prior because i wanted to

594
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,080
polish up the world a little bit and

595
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,159
possibly make it into a module and i was

596
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,919
like oh cool a new set of player

597
00:21:06,159 --> 00:21:09,200
characters let's go ahead and have them

598
00:21:07,919 --> 00:21:10,400
interact with this world and see what

599
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,760
happens next

600
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,600
and

601
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:18,960
there were very obvious like plot

602
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:21,679
arrows pointing in specific directions

603
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:24,000
and the players were not jumping on any

604
00:21:21,679 --> 00:21:25,200
of the hooks and so i was like okay

605
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,080
time

606
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,799
to initiate plan b which was

607
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,080
tapping into one of the player

608
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:34,640
characters

609
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:37,360
background story hooks and being like ah

610
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:40,480
okay so this player character

611
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:43,679
has a kind of revenge boner going on and

612
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,440
they spot somebody who is part of the

613
00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:46,320
cavalcade of people who took down his

614
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,600
people

615
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,520
so

616
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,240
i'm gonna have this uh

617
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,000
bad guy antagonist from this guy's

618
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,679
background just

619
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,080
going by

620
00:21:55,679 --> 00:22:00,960
just out the edge of his vision and then

621
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:03,440
as soon as that guy saw that the plot

622
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:08,000
started happening

623
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:10,480
i like to imagine rpg plots as

624
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,360
just this big grassy hill

625
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,919
right and this is probably just a deeply

626
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:19,039
locked memory for me from my childhood

627
00:22:15,919 --> 00:22:21,360
so bear with me for a minute okay but

628
00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:24,480
when you roll a rock down a hill

629
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,600
it's inevitably going to stop somewhere

630
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,760
right

631
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,520
yeah that's not always going to be in a

632
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,280
straight line it's not always going to

633
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,440
be where you expect sometimes there are

634
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,240
pebbles along the path sometimes there

635
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,400
are

636
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,000
tiny bumps sometimes they're just

637
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,840
heavier clumps of grass that are going

638
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,840
to divert that rock that you're rolling

639
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,000
down the hill to somewhere that you

640
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,880
didn't expect

641
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,720
but no matter what the rock is going to

642
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:52,880
keep going downhill

643
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:55,840
it's just the nature of iraq right yeah

644
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,990
so i say all that to say that

645
00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,880
that was a sentence that made sense

646
00:22:57,990 --> 00:23:04,159
[Laughter]

647
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,840
i say all that because your party is is

648
00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:07,200
the rock

649
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,559
sometimes they're gonna hit a pebble

650
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,480
sometimes they're going to hit a snag

651
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:11,600
but they're always going to keep moving

652
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,720
forward

653
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,840
as long as there's still more hill

654
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,799
right

655
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,280
so

656
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:21,280
let's take the orcs attacking that

657
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,240
village for example

658
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,760
the party chooses to abstain from

659
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,159
engaging with the orcs they don't try

660
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,120
diplomacy they don't join them and they

661
00:23:28,159 --> 00:23:31,919
don't

662
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:34,720
fight against them right which are

663
00:23:31,919 --> 00:23:37,440
the three main options right good

664
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:39,679
evil yeah the three immediate video game

665
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,440
options yeah exactly

666
00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:43,840
they choose to abstain and they just

667
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,039
stay in their their rooms in the inn

668
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,799
well there are a couple of things that

669
00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:48,080
you can do there maybe the orcs aren't

670
00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:50,640
looking to capture the town they're

671
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,960
looking to burn it to the ground now

672
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,240
right so you change your plan up really

673
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,320
quick and

674
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,799
now there's a fire in the inn you have

675
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,000
to do something or you will burn with it

676
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:01,120
right

677
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,400
or

678
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:04,480
they don't burn the end down they

679
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,200
capture the town and now

680
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:10,960
you can't leave unless you fight sneak

681
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:14,720
away or dialogue with these orcs

682
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,000
and it's a full town of this orc tribe

683
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,120
so it's going to be really tough to

684
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,440
sneak away

685
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:22,159
what do you do how are you engaging you

686
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:24,799
cannot exist the way that you have been

687
00:24:22,159 --> 00:24:25,840
there are consequences to neutrality

688
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:28,960
in the real world and there are

689
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,320
consequences to neutrality in an rpg

690
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,720
game

691
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,840
the rock rolls down the hill

692
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,799
so

693
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:39,600
if i can uh sum it up at all it's as a

694
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:41,760
gm don't feel bad for

695
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,000
doling out consequences to the player's

696
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,480
actions absolutely not

697
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,760
don't make them excessive either don't

698
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,760
make it like

699
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,520
oh you choose not to do anything okay

700
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,799
well roll up new characters because

701
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,360
there's no way you're gonna survive if

702
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:56,159
you don't act or anything like that

703
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:59,360
just

704
00:24:56,159 --> 00:25:01,840
change the scenario to encourage them to

705
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,440
act because they don't have to run away

706
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,840
from a burning in

707
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,520
but it definitely is more positive if

708
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,679
they do

709
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,279
yep it's a very good uh carrot on the

710
00:25:09,679 --> 00:25:14,320
end of the stick there is

711
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:16,240
not being in a burning in it's a classic

712
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,640
motivational

713
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:21,520
tactic there

714
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:24,240
i do my best

715
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,799
now thank you for bringing in that rock

716
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,480
metaphor because as part of my other

717
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:30,720
research i was doing

718
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:33,840
that works really well because of

719
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,840
newton's first law of motion to sound

720
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,320
intelligent in their

721
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,080
ttr this is a podcast called thinking

722
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,520
critically indeed

723
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,720
it's about time i started to live up to

724
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,720
that name right that was

725
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:48,799
i spent all that create that big the

726
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:50,080
galaxy brain thinking right at the

727
00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:52,080
beginning of the show when i came up

728
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,159
with a name and then that was it

729
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:57,039
i was

730
00:25:54,159 --> 00:25:58,559
i was spent um but no the first law

731
00:25:57,039 --> 00:25:59,919
states that an object in motion tends to

732
00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:01,840
stay in motion

733
00:25:59,919 --> 00:26:03,360
unless an external force act to plan it

734
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,880
but that works very well with that

735
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:06,559
metaphor of that rock falling down the

736
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,760
hill like as you said like it's just

737
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:09,760
gonna keep

738
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,760
rolling because you already sat at the

739
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,400
table playing the game so

740
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,159
i guess what i'm getting at is

741
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,720
sometimes there's a lot of

742
00:26:16,159 --> 00:26:21,760
pressure on gms and

743
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:24,880
mainly self-imposed to be like this

744
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:27,600
bastion of creativity and this fountain

745
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,360
of agency and all these other

746
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,440
stupid terms that i'm making up when in

747
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:34,000
reality like everything's there working

748
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,320
already for you in a way like that there

749
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,919
are a lot of things that are already

750
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,799
happening and sometimes it's easy to get

751
00:26:37,919 --> 00:26:40,000
you know

752
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:41,600
lost in the woods you know you can't see

753
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,039
the wood for the trees kind of thing

754
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,200
when yeah

755
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:47,679
it can be quite simple a solution as

756
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,039
you've just said hunter in terms of like

757
00:26:47,679 --> 00:26:49,350
okay well now they're burning it's the

758
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:50,880
ground

759
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:52,480
[Laughter]

760
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,520
yeah

761
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:59,279
i i think this is a really good time to

762
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,240
bring in a a staple of gm conversations

763
00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:02,159
which is

764
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,440
collaborative storytelling it's

765
00:27:02,159 --> 00:27:07,200
something that you're going to hear a

766
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:08,799
lot if you start discussing any tt rpg

767
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,520
but it's the idea that your players

768
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:13,520
contribute to the story as well

769
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,159
so let's take a

770
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,240
i hate to bring up this show but uh

771
00:27:16,159 --> 00:27:21,240
let's take critical role for example

772
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,240
right

773
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,520
i have never heard of this critical role

774
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:34,399
hunter what do you mean can you expect

775
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,399
some little show

776
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:38,320
then i don't know maybe they sell them

777
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,080
on amazon or something you can buy a

778
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,080
critical role somewhere

779
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,600
um

780
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,720
but uh we

781
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,760
as gm's a lot of people got their start

782
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,159
in this hobby via watching matt mercer

783
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,799
work right yeah and i don't think that's

784
00:27:52,159 --> 00:27:56,480
a bad thing i'm one of them you know i

785
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:58,799
started watching critical role very very

786
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,760
early on in campaign one and it inspired

787
00:27:58,799 --> 00:28:03,520
me to play in my first dnd game and the

788
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,080
rock rolled down the hill and here i am

789
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,480
making a podcast about it right yeah

790
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,880
that i mean same boat

791
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:14,240
critical role is not solely successful

792
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:17,840
because matt mercer is a good gm

793
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:20,159
matt mercer could in theory be the best

794
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,399
gm in the world but that is not what

795
00:28:20,159 --> 00:28:24,880
makes critical roles successful

796
00:28:22,399 --> 00:28:25,679
what makes critical role great

797
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,399
is

798
00:28:25,679 --> 00:28:31,039
the interplay between gm

799
00:28:28,399 --> 00:28:32,960
and players right

800
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:35,919
matt mercer could probably make a

801
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:38,320
successful podcast with a group of

802
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:40,399
normies right

803
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,679
but the fact that he's got such

804
00:28:40,399 --> 00:28:45,840
interactive and dynamic players

805
00:28:43,679 --> 00:28:47,679
takes critical role to the heights that

806
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,919
it is today because matt mercer would

807
00:28:47,679 --> 00:28:52,080
not be nearly as successful as a gm if

808
00:28:49,919 --> 00:28:54,399
he didn't have a group of players that

809
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:57,279
both fit his style and played well off

810
00:28:54,399 --> 00:28:58,720
of one another yeah critical role is a

811
00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:01,120
great example of collaborative

812
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,039
storytelling because every single player

813
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,159
contributes to the world

814
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:08,720
just as much as the gm does yeah and

815
00:29:06,159 --> 00:29:10,640
that's actually something that a

816
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,039
youtuber who goes by the name the

817
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,039
dungeon coach talks about

818
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:16,799
i actually highly recommend the dungeon

819
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:19,760
coach if you

820
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:21,840
like me really like doing home brew

821
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,840
for dungeons and dragons 5th edition

822
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,440
because that's almost exclusively what

823
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,840
he talks about he touches into other

824
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,000
systems as well but a lot of what he

825
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,320
talks about is hey i really don't like

826
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,840
this particular rule for d5e as it's

827
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,200
written how about we do a home brew to

828
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,440
patch it

829
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,559
and he actually talks about

830
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,919
the critical role player effect uh

831
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:44,000
because people have talked to death

832
00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:45,760
about the matt mercer effect but there

833
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,600
is a critical role player effect

834
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,399
happening as well and it's a lot of what

835
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,000
you've talked about and he talks about

836
00:29:50,399 --> 00:29:54,559
it more in depth in his video i highly

837
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,520
recommend that you just watch that so it

838
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:59,039
can be small things um so

839
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,480
like as a player to go back to the

840
00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:02,159
player perspective

841
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,320
i was playing in my star wars game we

842
00:30:02,159 --> 00:30:07,120
were doing a heist in a bar

843
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,200
i just made up three different drinks

844
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,880
alcoholic drinks so don't don't drink

845
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,410
any of these fake star wars drinks if

846
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,039
you're under 21 in america

847
00:30:12,410 --> 00:30:17,360
[Laughter]

848
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:19,039
but uh you know i just made up three

849
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,880
drinks that

850
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:24,320
added just a little bit of flair and

851
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:26,159
flavor to the world around us right

852
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,559
you can do little things like that be

853
00:30:26,159 --> 00:30:31,279
like oh uh we walk into this new town

854
00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:34,000
hey gm can there be a

855
00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:36,720
i don't know a tavern named the lovely

856
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,320
goose and it's all fashioned and goosed

857
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,919
down everything and it's really

858
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,120
expensive but the food tastes like

859
00:30:39,919 --> 00:30:43,360
garbage

860
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,960
right just this quirky little thing

861
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,120
where it looks really nice but it's

862
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,279
functionally defunct right

863
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,360
and as a gm invite your players to do

864
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:54,000
that if you're like i don't really know

865
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,600
how else to describe this city hey

866
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,399
players

867
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,799
what do you think this city looks like

868
00:30:58,399 --> 00:31:02,640
yeah tell me one thing that you see tell

869
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:04,880
me one thing that you smell tell me one

870
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,919
thing that like brushes up against your

871
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,519
leg

872
00:31:05,919 --> 00:31:09,279
exactly and to bring this back to the

873
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:10,559
overarching topic so we don't tangent

874
00:31:09,279 --> 00:31:12,399
too much

875
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:13,840
that's going to encourage the players to

876
00:31:12,399 --> 00:31:16,240
interact with the things that they've

877
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,919
created in the town right so that's

878
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,519
going to keep them moving forward it

879
00:31:17,919 --> 00:31:22,960
gives you an easy place to put plot

880
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:24,880
hooks or easy plot hooks to pull on uh

881
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,480
because players are more likely to

882
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,480
engage with things that they've created

883
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,120
that's why backstory arcs are so

884
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,120
effective

885
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,519
i'm gonna have to

886
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:38,240
leverage that if only for the reason of

887
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:40,399
taking some of that creative weight off

888
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,600
of my shoulders i'm a lazy bastard so i

889
00:31:40,399 --> 00:31:43,600
encourage you to do that

890
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,960
i know well he

891
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,399
he won't strongly encourage you he'll

892
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,159
just kind of sit there like yeah you do

893
00:31:48,399 --> 00:31:52,960
that man

894
00:31:50,159 --> 00:31:55,279
way to go yeah no honestly this is a big

895
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,760
chunk of why i

896
00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:59,519
highly encourage my players to like give

897
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,240
me as detailed the backstory as they

898
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:04,559
want because they give me elements that

899
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,399
i can put into the world like oh my

900
00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:07,919
parents came from this town and this

901
00:32:06,399 --> 00:32:09,600
town is best known for this thing and

902
00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:11,039
i'm like great this is one less thing

903
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,320
for me to build

904
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:14,640
from scratch

905
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:18,940
so like absolutely engage with the

906
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:22,249
players backstory to flesh out the world

907
00:32:18,940 --> 00:32:22,249
[Music]

908
00:32:24,810 --> 00:32:29,360
[Music]

909
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,600
okay so

910
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,559
i mean we've talked an awful lot now

911
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,840
about

912
00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:37,919
in-game motion so keeping things moving

913
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,440
i think is the nice simple

914
00:32:37,919 --> 00:32:41,200
definition that we've used for the first

915
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,880
half an hour of this show

916
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,600
uh before we move on though i had one

917
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,279
more thought around um

918
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,120
when that is inhibited for whatever

919
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:53,440
reason so we've talked about

920
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:56,000
the the abstinent party uh

921
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,080
yeah we've talked about who's you know

922
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,640
who's responsible for keeping things in

923
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,960
motion the one final thing that i had on

924
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,120
this kind of broad topic around kind of

925
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:08,640
in universe motion was

926
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,679
analysis paralysis that classic

927
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,919
that

928
00:33:09,679 --> 00:33:14,159
we've all had as human beings in our

929
00:33:11,919 --> 00:33:15,919
lives at one point or another something

930
00:33:14,159 --> 00:33:17,440
we could all relate to and i think when

931
00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:20,240
you get

932
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,840
however many players around a table

933
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,279
operating through a filter of their

934
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,039
characters

935
00:33:23,279 --> 00:33:26,240
you know inherently operating on less

936
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:29,440
knowledge than perhaps they should have

937
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,519
at that time it is very very very easy

938
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,200
to fall into that trap doubly so when

939
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:36,240
you have

940
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,679
players who are either hyper aware of

941
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,120
the other players and like don't want to

942
00:33:37,679 --> 00:33:40,880
step on any toes and don't want to be

943
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,200
seen as like

944
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:46,480
commandeering the situation

945
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,960
so it's just very easy to fall in to

946
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,960
that trap of like i'm the gm and look at

947
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,720
this smorgasbord i have laid out this

948
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,880
wonderful fantabulous world of all these

949
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,360
wonderful and wacky things you can do

950
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,440
have fun and the players go oh

951
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,880
don't know what to do where i don't want

952
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,320
to do that because that's there but i

953
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,679
can't go there because

954
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,000
this other character doesn't want to go

955
00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:07,600
there and it's it can very easily

956
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,359
devolve into

957
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,320
three hours of

958
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:12,240
of like

959
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,760
zero motion other than

960
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:14,639
so we should go

961
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,919
right

962
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:19,280
and

963
00:34:15,919 --> 00:34:21,679
yeah yeah so yeah what what uh you know

964
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,639
how do you mitigate that how do we stop

965
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,320
that

966
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:26,159
the best solution is to stop i guess

967
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,520
that point happening when it happens in

968
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,359
a negative way of course there are

969
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,440
probably instances when it can be seen

970
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:32,879
in a positive way but let's

971
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,800
have a good faith argument here and

972
00:34:32,879 --> 00:34:37,520
assume that the analysis of paralysis is

973
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,879
a negative instance in this case how can

974
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,040
we stop it from happening it's probably

975
00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:42,720
the best question to ask

976
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,919
i have a lot of thoughts on this okay

977
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:45,760
okay good

978
00:34:43,919 --> 00:34:48,639
as somebody and somebody who is

979
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,119
neurodivergent who also writes stories a

980
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:53,200
lot and who is overwhelmed by analysis

981
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:56,639
paralysis a lot of the time

982
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:58,079
one of the easy ways to mitigate that

983
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,920
is um

984
00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:01,359
and i'm just going to tangent a little

985
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,800
bit and just talk about writer's block

986
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:04,640
for a second because that's what

987
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,960
writer's block is is just analysis

988
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,119
paralysis you have written yourself to a

989
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,480
point where suddenly there's a lot of

990
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:12,720
options in front of you and you don't

991
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,520
know which one is the best one

992
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:18,560
and honestly the best answer is that

993
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,839
there is no best choice in a scenario

994
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,320
like that you

995
00:35:19,839 --> 00:35:23,680
either pick an option and you follow

996
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,839
that road to

997
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,599
where it inevitably ends

998
00:35:25,839 --> 00:35:28,880
and at least when it comes to writing if

999
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:32,079
you don't like where it ends you can

1000
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,280
just go back to that point where you had

1001
00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:35,680
experienced the writer's block in the

1002
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,440
first place and try again with a

1003
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,800
different option because i've done that

1004
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,880
multiple times

1005
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,560
when it comes to

1006
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,760
gmming or

1007
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,920
running a game and the players are like

1008
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:52,079
oh god analysis paralysis what do i do

1009
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:54,640
next um it can be your role as the dm to

1010
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:55,680
just narrow it down to like three

1011
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,640
options

1012
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,400
and this is

1013
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,960
this is something that's been brought up

1014
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:03,920
as a sales tactic too because i've done

1015
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,839
sales for years um because it can be

1016
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,640
really easy to overwhelm the shopper

1017
00:36:05,839 --> 00:36:10,320
with options so you just narrow it down

1018
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,680
to three

1019
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,040
to start and yeah go from there and

1020
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,440
whenever you're

1021
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:20,000
gming for a particular setting

1022
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,280
it may be helpful to just

1023
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,760
have like

1024
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:27,280
three kind of root

1025
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,160
choices to choose from and then each

1026
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,200
root

1027
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:33,599
choice can have sub choices after that

1028
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:36,720
almost like uh almost like a spoken

1029
00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:39,599
wheel kind of a system where like you go

1030
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:40,880
down one spoke and it leads into another

1031
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:42,640
spoken at least to another one and

1032
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,520
another one etc

1033
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,240
but

1034
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,400
that's my thoughts on it

1035
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:50,880
if anybody else wants to chip in

1036
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,839
no i i definitely agree i think uh

1037
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:56,880
generally when i am writing something uh

1038
00:36:53,839 --> 00:36:59,760
to to put in front of my players i

1039
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,599
have one to two like likely options i

1040
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,640
mean as a gm you generally know your

1041
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:04,480
players

1042
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,000
uh to an extent

1043
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,520
and

1044
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,520
they're inevitably gonna surprise you at

1045
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,800
some points but after you played with a

1046
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,760
with a group for a certain amount of

1047
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,240
time you're like okay well they're

1048
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,160
likely to engage with this or that

1049
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:18,640
uh and you can kind of narrow things

1050
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,560
down a little bit but yeah

1051
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,880
i mean there there's also a time and a

1052
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,800
place for you know like hey you're

1053
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,359
in the middle of a crisis like quit

1054
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,320
knee-jerk response what is so and so do

1055
00:37:27,359 --> 00:37:31,200
you know

1056
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:34,000
yeah absolutely the the classic tactic

1057
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,359
there is imposing a time limit which is

1058
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,440
as with most gm

1059
00:37:35,359 --> 00:37:39,040
tool belt tricks it's

1060
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,359
obviously in in moderation don't do it

1061
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,800
for every single the barmaid comes over

1062
00:37:41,359 --> 00:37:44,720
and asks what are you buying you've got

1063
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,320
three seconds to decide is it is it beer

1064
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:48,400
or is it red wine

1065
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,880
that's a little excessive

1066
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,480
red wine or blue wine

1067
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,240
honestly there could just be some

1068
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,000
moments where it can be in character for

1069
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,920
somebody to just sit there and putts

1070
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,640
around for 10 minutes being like oh do i

1071
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:03,200
want to do this one oh wait a minute do

1072
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,200
we want to do like a a party plate a

1073
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,359
party plate maybe let's do a party play

1074
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,119
how about we do a party plate like that

1075
00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:11,200
could be in character and that can be

1076
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:12,000
motion in and of itself

1077
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,640
yeah

1078
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,800
absolutely and that comes to kind of

1079
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,760
player experience to a certain extent to

1080
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,160
know

1081
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,520
where the line is in terms of well now

1082
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,079
now i'm just

1083
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,760
being obnoxious

1084
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:27,200
rather than you know playing to my

1085
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,119
character's strengths but i've

1086
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,119
definitely been

1087
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:34,000
on both sides of that

1088
00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:35,760
issue of both the player and the dm

1089
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,280
where my players

1090
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,119
have you know discussed and discussed

1091
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,880
and it gets to a point where one or two

1092
00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:42,400
players will be like i just don't care

1093
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,839
anymore like

1094
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,599
we're not playing the game anymore we're

1095
00:38:43,839 --> 00:38:49,200
just in this weird meta verse of

1096
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:51,839
not really playing and just kind of

1097
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,520
overthinking everything and

1098
00:38:51,839 --> 00:38:55,359
that is why i ask the question because

1099
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,040
when it gets to that point as soon as

1100
00:38:55,359 --> 00:38:58,160
the first player is annoyed then

1101
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,440
everything

1102
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,880
you know the house of cards falls down

1103
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,040
very quickly because

1104
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,560
right which is fair enough like one

1105
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,760
person's not really having fun well then

1106
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,960
absolutely the house of cards should

1107
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,119
fall over because you need to rectify

1108
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,640
that pretty pretty sharpish oh yes which

1109
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:11,680
is ironic considering the source of the

1110
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,640
problem is

1111
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,640
things happening not sharpish

1112
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,400
yeah you can see that that one person

1113
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:21,119
tilt and then it just kind of sinks the

1114
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,640
whole ship yeah yeah so that's that's

1115
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:25,680
why i asked the question to be like

1116
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,720
let's let's think about that and um

1117
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,720
it is

1118
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,480
again i i'm unbeknownst to me when i ask

1119
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,480
this question but i'm very happy

1120
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,000
i've thought of this is that it is again

1121
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,520
it falls into that

1122
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,599
that classic dm trap of like oh

1123
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,359
i shouldn't impose a time limit or i

1124
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:43,040
shouldn't just you know

1125
00:39:41,359 --> 00:39:44,960
bring in some cheap

1126
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,119
while you're deciding well the right

1127
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,880
hand path suffers a landslide and they

1128
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:50,400
can't go down anymore

1129
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,960
because you know it

1130
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,760
it is very easy to be very heavy-handed

1131
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,680
in those situations as a gm and just

1132
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,280
have those kind of contrived

1133
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,560
outcomes and i think the nuance comes

1134
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,520
from

1135
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:06,560
reducing the options in a way that is

1136
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:09,599
fair and makes sense which is

1137
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,240
very hard to do in my opinion

1138
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:14,000
yeah if you don't mind another bit of a

1139
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:16,720
weird metaphor

1140
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:19,359
i'm bad at writing puzzles i'm

1141
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:21,520
fully aware of that

1142
00:40:19,359 --> 00:40:22,800
so typically i just steal them online

1143
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,880
but

1144
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,119
if i'm not doing that

1145
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,680
if i'm writing my own

1146
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:30,960
mystery for the players to solve

1147
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,040
um

1148
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,160
this is the weird metaphor part i like

1149
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,160
to think of it like a meat and

1150
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,359
charcuterie board okay

1151
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,160
right

1152
00:40:37,359 --> 00:40:42,000
so i worked in a restaurant for years

1153
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,560
and i learned a lot about like food

1154
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,400
presentation and the idea behind flavor

1155
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,720
profiles right

1156
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,119
so the ideal way to

1157
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:52,400
build out a a charcuterie board

1158
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:54,720
especially if you're going to be having

1159
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,960
things like fruit and breads and sauces

1160
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:59,359
and honeys and things like that

1161
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,560
is to group the things that taste good

1162
00:40:59,359 --> 00:41:01,680
together

1163
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,040
together

1164
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,520
right

1165
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,640
so you're gonna put like brie

1166
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,720
with

1167
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,119
fruit you're going to put stronger

1168
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:13,920
cheeses like uh i don't know why you

1169
00:41:11,119 --> 00:41:17,359
would have a gorgonzola but a gorgonzola

1170
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:20,319
with like salted meats and more heavy

1171
00:41:17,359 --> 00:41:21,839
breads like um like a toasted baguette

1172
00:41:20,319 --> 00:41:24,240
or something

1173
00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:26,720
and the whole idea is that if you're

1174
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:28,800
picking from the right side of the board

1175
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:30,079
everything that goes well together is

1176
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,480
going to be on the right side of the

1177
00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:35,440
board same goes with the left top bottom

1178
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,280
whatever quadrant that you're in right

1179
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,880
so if a player

1180
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,240
goes to this dinner party and they see

1181
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,760
this meet and charcuterie board and

1182
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:42,800
they're overwhelmed by their amount of

1183
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,359
options

1184
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,240
one of the easiest ways that i've found

1185
00:41:45,359 --> 00:41:48,160
to

1186
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:50,720
lighten the load of that analysis

1187
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,599
paralysis is to simply go up and say

1188
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:53,760
hey

1189
00:41:51,599 --> 00:41:55,040
those grapes go really really well with

1190
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,520
swiss

1191
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,680
[Laughter]

1192
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,319
metaphorically speaking yeah yeah

1193
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,480
metaphorically speaking just go to your

1194
00:42:02,319 --> 00:42:06,400
players and be like hey

1195
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,920
these two things seem to have some kind

1196
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,520
of connection yeah

1197
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,720
and eventually you're going to get to a

1198
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,480
point where

1199
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:14,160
something clicks

1200
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,079
and they're able to just steamroll

1201
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,720
through the rest of the the puzzle right

1202
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:20,800
because puzzles are meant to be solved

1203
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:22,640
alternatively if they're a really

1204
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,160
suspicious party that never trust

1205
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,480
anything you say

1206
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:30,000
then you can always be like hey

1207
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,839
you should try blue cheese and honey or

1208
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,280
like some weird combination that you

1209
00:42:31,839 --> 00:42:35,359
know isn't gonna taste good because

1210
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,800
they're going to reject that immediately

1211
00:42:35,359 --> 00:42:37,839
and hopefully that'll get the ball

1212
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,520
rolling

1213
00:42:37,839 --> 00:42:42,800
so it's a little bit of knowing your

1214
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:45,520
party and choosing between truthfulness

1215
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,200
and deception to kind of spur them into

1216
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:50,160
the right direction

1217
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:52,160
i'm a big proponent of hey gm's just

1218
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,920
tell your players what's up

1219
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,640
like communicate with them if you see

1220
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:59,599
that they're a little lost yeah because

1221
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:02,400
the game's no fun if it stagnates in my

1222
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:03,920
opinion yeah so just

1223
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,599
it's not going to hurt anything just be

1224
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,520
like hey

1225
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:09,359
go cut the red wire

1226
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,960
you know yeah i don't think it's really

1227
00:43:09,359 --> 00:43:12,400
going to hurt anything in the grand

1228
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,839
scheme

1229
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,920
and then and then when you roll when do

1230
00:43:13,839 --> 00:43:17,599
you roll the cheese down the hill of my

1231
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,520
uh

1232
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:20,880
uh typically after you taste it and

1233
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,160
don't like it you're like i don't want

1234
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,760
that anymore and then the cheese always

1235
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,160
gets the bottom got it right i'm ready

1236
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,880
to dm now exactly the cheese eventually

1237
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,880
reaches the bottom

1238
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,280
all roads lead to the bottom of the hill

1239
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:35,040
yeah yeah yeah exactly all roads lead to

1240
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,599
the cheese

1241
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:40,000
like not all who huda or cheddar or

1242
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:41,440
something those lines yeah some some

1243
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,960
profound metaphor in there that we've

1244
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,160
built together in some collaborative

1245
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,590
storytelling

1246
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,560
um

1247
00:43:44,590 --> 00:43:49,040
[Laughter]

1248
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,800
i do think there is

1249
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,599
i love that you've brought that up there

1250
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,640
that

1251
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:56,240
the dm withholding information and i

1252
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,440
feel qualified to talk about this

1253
00:43:56,240 --> 00:44:00,079
because it's something i've done several

1254
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,560
times myself for for wrong

1255
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:04,720
me in that it's very easy to fulfill

1256
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,400
that kind of

1257
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:08,880
machiavellian like

1258
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:11,040
i hold all the cards and you stupid

1259
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,319
players don't know what you're doing and

1260
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,359
it kind of

1261
00:44:12,319 --> 00:44:17,599
ticks that small box of being a gm

1262
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:18,800
and so that combined with

1263
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:20,400
how

1264
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,480
intrinsically difficult it is to know

1265
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,079
what the players know and

1266
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,839
another level deeper to know what their

1267
00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:27,520
play characters know and disassociate

1268
00:44:25,839 --> 00:44:28,400
that from what you as the gm know which

1269
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,920
is

1270
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,160
quite literally everything

1271
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,160
uh

1272
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,599
so that often leads to those situations

1273
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,760
where like oh i don't need to tell them

1274
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:39,599
to cut the red wire because it's obvious

1275
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,200
it's the red it's the red wire why

1276
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:42,400
wouldn't they be cutting it and then

1277
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,359
what you don't know is the dm is that

1278
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,119
they've got

1279
00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:47,920
70 sessions of baggage that's taught

1280
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:48,640
them don't cut you know red things or

1281
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,319
they

1282
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,240
too many enemies were read in the last

1283
00:44:50,319 --> 00:44:54,079
couple of sessions and now they've they

1284
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:55,200
are suspicious about red things and that

1285
00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:57,200
just didn't

1286
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,640
click for you until this one pertinent

1287
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,240
moment when it all rests on cutting the

1288
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,680
red wire and then you're just sitting

1289
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:04,800
there as a gm going

1290
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:06,079
ah [ __ ] yeah i didn't see that

1291
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,839
yeah

1292
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:09,839
yep and it's okay to admit that you're

1293
00:45:07,839 --> 00:45:10,640
wrong at points you know

1294
00:45:09,839 --> 00:45:13,040
so

1295
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,880
to beat a dead horse if your rock gets

1296
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,640
stuck

1297
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,720
rolling down the hill

1298
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:21,040
it's okay to walk down the hill a little

1299
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:23,119
bit and be like here you go buddy i'm

1300
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,480
sorry i didn't see that somebody parked

1301
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:25,520
their car there

1302
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,520
you know

1303
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,880
it's okay to just kind of nudge it a

1304
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,440
little bit to get

1305
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:34,000
the metaphorical rock rolling again you

1306
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,000
know yep i mean don't pick it up and

1307
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,920
carry it to the bottom of the hill but

1308
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,440
just a little nudge here and there to

1309
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,920
get everything moving again i don't

1310
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:44,640
think is a bad thing if you do mess up

1311
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:48,079
as a gm just say hey that's on me

1312
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:49,760
let's keep going yeah precisely and

1313
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:50,960
you're now um

1314
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,800
i was gonna say you must have listened

1315
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,960
to the show before because most of the

1316
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,920
show nowadays is me talking about the

1317
00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:01,440
mistakes i've made uh so

1318
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:03,920
as a gm so yes

1319
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,119
we're certainly over that bridge

1320
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,440
so

1321
00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:11,359
as we you alluded to earlier on kelsey

1322
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:14,960
regarding the comic art side of things

1323
00:46:11,359 --> 00:46:16,400
emotion uh in regards to that please

1324
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:19,520
educate me

1325
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:21,359
oh boy okay so motion in comics can

1326
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,720
apply to a lot of things it can imply it

1327
00:46:21,359 --> 00:46:24,640
can apply to

1328
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:26,960
how does the reader's eye move around

1329
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,839
the page in order to read it it can also

1330
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,880
mean

1331
00:46:27,839 --> 00:46:32,560
can the art imply

1332
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,119
movement on the page does a character

1333
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:37,520
look like they are moving

1334
00:46:35,119 --> 00:46:39,599
like a fluidly stiffly

1335
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,680
how are you implying motion in the

1336
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:43,839
character that you are illustrating how

1337
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,680
are you implying motion in the dialogue

1338
00:46:43,839 --> 00:46:48,079
is there motion in the dialogue there's

1339
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,040
a lot of different factors for

1340
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:52,079
where

1341
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,760
motion can apply in comics

1342
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:56,319
um

1343
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,079
the most recent page that i finished for

1344
00:46:56,319 --> 00:47:00,480
my own webcomic the legend of jamie

1345
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:02,160
roberts i feel really proud of

1346
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,880
because it is

1347
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:07,440
in my opinion very fluid and a lot of my

1348
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,520
readers have noticed hey the the motion

1349
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,280
in this page is actually really really

1350
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,160
nice because like

1351
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,040
um

1352
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:17,040
in in the particular page there's uh one

1353
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,359
character asia tossing something to

1354
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:22,480
another character daniel and daniel is

1355
00:47:19,359 --> 00:47:25,520
like fumbling with it and

1356
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,520
the line work and the gesture can imply

1357
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:31,040
the motion as well

1358
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:33,599
so there's that and then there's also

1359
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,920
just the motion of the story

1360
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:39,200
overall

1361
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:41,520
and that can also be really hard to

1362
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,440
achieve in comics because i'll tell you

1363
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:46,800
what it's really easy

1364
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:48,480
for comic stories to

1365
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,000
get from point a

1366
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,480
to point b

1367
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,720
and then they never get to point c

1368
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,599
because point b

1369
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:59,119
for some ungodly reason is where the

1370
00:47:57,599 --> 00:48:00,640
creative team is like let's just hang

1371
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:04,640
out here for a little bit and it's like

1372
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:07,200
can we please get to point c though

1373
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:09,119
which which is that uh is that pitfall

1374
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,640
there is directly applicable to what

1375
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:13,440
we've just spent the last 15 minutes

1376
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:15,520
discussing around absolutely

1377
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,880
being stuck in that that middle ground

1378
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:20,880
of like

1379
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:22,800
in in action or on

1380
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,920
for whatever you want to call it yeah

1381
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:28,160
yeah yeah a chunk of that can also just

1382
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,319
apply to it and really depends on the

1383
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,079
comic market a lot of it is real really

1384
00:48:30,319 --> 00:48:33,200
dependent on like

1385
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:34,960
sales

1386
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,599
because if

1387
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,960
if the sales of a book are really really

1388
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:41,520
good you want to try to prolong the

1389
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,359
story for as long as you can so you just

1390
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,200
keep the characters hanging out at point

1391
00:48:43,359 --> 00:48:47,599
b and you just don't have them get

1392
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,200
anywhere near point c because point c is

1393
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:51,359
the conclusion we don't want this to

1394
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,839
conclude we want to keep selling books

1395
00:48:51,359 --> 00:48:55,359
and that can be kind of a problem

1396
00:48:53,839 --> 00:48:57,440
because you do want to reach a

1397
00:48:55,359 --> 00:49:01,680
conclusion at some point

1398
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,880
yeah yeah goddamn capitalism

1399
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,559
yeah

1400
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,800
uh well and one thing you mentioned

1401
00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:09,200
kelsey is is talking about motion like

1402
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,960
what where the the reader's eyes are on

1403
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,720
and i think that that part of that can

1404
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,839
kind of tie back to

1405
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:16,720
you know describing a scene as a as a gm

1406
00:49:15,839 --> 00:49:19,040
you're

1407
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:20,640
painting a picture then okay what is

1408
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,920
going to jump out at your players

1409
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,839
immediately what are they going to run

1410
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,839
over and interact with and did you

1411
00:49:23,839 --> 00:49:27,760
describe something meaningful or did you

1412
00:49:25,839 --> 00:49:30,480
just describe a bump on a log that they

1413
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:32,160
are now suddenly fascinated with yeah

1414
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,400
and also be

1415
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,800
aware of the kinds of like backstory

1416
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,559
things that your characters

1417
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,400
have hanging around in their backstory

1418
00:49:38,559 --> 00:49:43,119
whenever you're so that whenever you're

1419
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:46,880
describing a scene and

1420
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:48,800
let's let's say for example uh that you

1421
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,440
have a player character who is looking

1422
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:56,160
for a missing mentor figure and you're

1423
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:58,319
describing a scene and you bring up

1424
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:00,720
that there is something in the bushes

1425
00:49:58,319 --> 00:50:03,119
that looks an awful lot like fabric that

1426
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:04,559
player is suddenly going to be like oh

1427
00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:05,839
what's the pattern on the fabric over

1428
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:07,520
there is it connected to my mentor

1429
00:50:05,839 --> 00:50:10,319
figure who am i i'm looking for were

1430
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:12,240
they just in this area like what does it

1431
00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:16,319
look like and that will make them want

1432
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:18,319
to go and investigate stuff like that

1433
00:50:16,319 --> 00:50:20,960
yeah i'm glad you mentioned that joe

1434
00:50:18,319 --> 00:50:23,440
again because that is a very classic

1435
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:25,119
pitfall again for gm's to be like

1436
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,160
do i point to the elephant in the room

1437
00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:30,000
or do i not point and let the players

1438
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,440
then find it but then

1439
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,880
you know which is the lesser of two

1440
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,400
evils here because then otherwise are

1441
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,920
they going to get fixated on that random

1442
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,559
pebble that i draw attention to for

1443
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,000
flavor and waste right funnily enough

1444
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:41,200
bring the game to

1445
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,740
a screeching halt because they're

1446
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,760
invested in pebblegate

1447
00:50:42,740 --> 00:50:48,480
[Laughter]

1448
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:51,359
or do i just be like nah like the

1449
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:55,280
pebble's just a pebble guys um the big

1450
00:50:51,359 --> 00:50:56,880
flaming demon is maybe a bigger concern

1451
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,359
yeah uh

1452
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:01,200
this is uh i'm sorry i'm bringing up

1453
00:50:59,359 --> 00:51:03,680
critical role again this is why in

1454
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:05,359
campaign two matt mercer really should

1455
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,720
not have described

1456
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:09,920
the chair

1457
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:13,200
and as much depth as he did

1458
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:15,680
because there was a scene where and

1459
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,359
what you describe and how you describe

1460
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,800
it will say a lot and he had described a

1461
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:21,520
scene where everything was wrecked

1462
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:24,880
except for one chair which was still

1463
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:26,079
standing on all four legs undisturbed

1464
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,839
and

1465
00:51:26,079 --> 00:51:30,559
a lesson to all

1466
00:51:27,839 --> 00:51:31,599
gm's and dms out there how you describe

1467
00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:33,920
a scene

1468
00:51:31,599 --> 00:51:37,200
and how you describe the objects in that

1469
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:38,800
scene will do a lot to paint an

1470
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:41,119
implication

1471
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,720
of that scene and paint an implication

1472
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:44,079
of the object that you are describing

1473
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:45,599
because if everything is a mess but

1474
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:47,599
there is one object that is really

1475
00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:48,960
pristine what does that say about the

1476
00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:50,880
object

1477
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,119
yeah well this is actually a really

1478
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,960
interesting thing that isn't all forms

1479
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:56,800
of storytelling because

1480
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,400
this is the difference between

1481
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,359
what the gm knows and what the players

1482
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,280
know

1483
00:51:59,359 --> 00:52:03,599
you have to remember the gm if you're

1484
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:06,079
describing a scene that

1485
00:52:03,599 --> 00:52:08,400
how you describe it or how you show it

1486
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:09,839
whether you have a battle map or like an

1487
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,680
illustration

1488
00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:13,760
that's all that the players know about

1489
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,599
the area that they're in

1490
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,440
so if

1491
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:19,119
let's say in

1492
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,839
lord of the rings

1493
00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:22,800
they never mention mordor

1494
00:52:21,839 --> 00:52:24,400
ever

1495
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,920
and then suddenly you're in mortar and

1496
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,119
you're like whoa what the [ __ ]

1497
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,640
what is this

1498
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:29,920
you know like i don't know what this

1499
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,040
place is

1500
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,640
the

1501
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:37,680
viewer of the film if they have zero

1502
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:39,680
context or zero idea what mordor is are

1503
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,119
going to be completely lost and they're

1504
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,119
going to latch on to the first thing

1505
00:52:41,119 --> 00:52:44,720
that interests them

1506
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:46,880
in that case which would probably be the

1507
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:48,559
giant volcano or the army of orcs

1508
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,960
depending on the person that

1509
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:53,040
watches it but or the giant ass eyeball

1510
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:56,240
that's staring down at them from on high

1511
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:57,599
that's not important or that

1512
00:52:56,240 --> 00:53:00,319
probably not

1513
00:52:57,599 --> 00:53:03,359
but as a gm you know

1514
00:53:00,319 --> 00:53:05,040
you have all of the power to draw focus

1515
00:53:03,359 --> 00:53:07,839
to something

1516
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:10,319
and this is where i think pace comes

1517
00:53:07,839 --> 00:53:12,079
into the conversation of motion

1518
00:53:10,319 --> 00:53:14,720
because

1519
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:15,839
if you're moving slowly you're still

1520
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:17,119
moving

1521
00:53:15,839 --> 00:53:20,480
right

1522
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:23,440
so i like to take my descriptive moments

1523
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:25,920
especially in a new area to slow down

1524
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:29,920
the pace of the game and really

1525
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:33,119
bring the important things to bear

1526
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:35,040
my players in my dnd game just entered a

1527
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:36,400
a ruined city

1528
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,079
with like a bunch of skeletons

1529
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,520
everywhere and tree overgrowth and

1530
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:41,359
everything like that

1531
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,880
and you know i go ahead and i describe

1532
00:53:41,359 --> 00:53:44,240
the city and all that but what i really

1533
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,880
wanted to bring their attention to was

1534
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:48,640
this giant hundred foot across hole that

1535
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,680
sunk down deeper than any of them could

1536
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:52,400
see

1537
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:55,599
right in the middle of the town

1538
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:58,000
pretty easy thing to bring attention to

1539
00:53:55,599 --> 00:54:00,240
but it's also a really easy thing to

1540
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,640
just kind of gloss over because you just

1541
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:04,720
assume that people will pay attention to

1542
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:07,200
it right

1543
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:09,440
so the way that i got around that was

1544
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,559
let me take my time let me describe

1545
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,559
everything

1546
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:14,559
you know relatively quickly just tell

1547
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:16,800
them what everything looks like and then

1548
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:19,440
let me slow down

1549
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:22,000
how quickly i'm talking when i'm

1550
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:24,160
describing this massive hole

1551
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:26,640
these aqueducts going all throughout the

1552
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,880
city or draining into it but it is not

1553
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,800
full of water because the aqueducts

1554
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,800
aren't full right now

1555
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:35,760
this hole sinks down and down and down

1556
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:38,640
you feel the call into the void that is

1557
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:40,720
at the bottom of this sinkhole and that

1558
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,480
immediately enraptured all of them and

1559
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:45,040
of course like a good gm i ended the

1560
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,040
session there

1561
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,680
perfect

1562
00:54:47,359 --> 00:54:51,119
but slowing down even just the pace at

1563
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,240
which you speak

1564
00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:55,599
draws a lot of attention to people

1565
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:57,440
because whether or not

1566
00:54:55,599 --> 00:55:00,559
we realize it

1567
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:03,520
humans like to hyper fixate on on things

1568
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:05,680
that are not normal in their mind

1569
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:08,079
and if this is my normal speaking pace

1570
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:11,040
just slowing down or speeding up is

1571
00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:12,799
going to tell a lot subconsciously to my

1572
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:15,520
players

1573
00:55:12,799 --> 00:55:18,400
heck yeah yeah yeah i love that example

1574
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:21,200
actually because if that exactly

1575
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:24,160
identical situation was delivered by

1576
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:26,160
a not so masterful gm

1577
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,920
it could have easily been you know

1578
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,040
construed by the players oh that's just

1579
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,799
a well

1580
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,240
and like there's a hole in the ground of

1581
00:55:30,799 --> 00:55:34,240
wars running into that's the well okay

1582
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:36,559
what else do we see and then you're like

1583
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:38,160
oh no

1584
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:39,839
yeah no no no it's a really really

1585
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,440
important well hold on

1586
00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:42,640
yeah don't leave yet yeah no come back

1587
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,160
come back

1588
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,880
pull them in by the stuff on there next

1589
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:48,240
so no yeah yes yeah it's very it's very

1590
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,200
important to know the kind of mood that

1591
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:53,520
you want to set uh slowing down can be a

1592
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,119
really good way to build a sense of

1593
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,680
dread

1594
00:55:55,119 --> 00:56:00,240
so is lowering your voice just that

1595
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:03,839
little bit or like dropping down to a

1596
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:05,359
near whisper so tone of voice can also

1597
00:56:03,839 --> 00:56:08,319
affect motion

1598
00:56:05,359 --> 00:56:09,200
um it's it's true for comics it's true

1599
00:56:08,319 --> 00:56:12,079
for

1600
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:13,680
gmming a session yeah yeah yeah and it's

1601
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:15,359
a it's a classic

1602
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,880
uh i learned many years ago in my

1603
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:18,640
university days when delivering

1604
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,760
presentations that

1605
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:23,440
people tend to speak uh you know their

1606
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,960
cadence increases

1607
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,799
when you're standing in front of people

1608
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,640
slightly nervous you

1609
00:56:26,799 --> 00:56:30,720
subconsciously rattle you want to rattle

1610
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,880
through it so it's over quicker and and

1611
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:35,119
a big skill you learn when practicing

1612
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,640
giving presentations and whatnot as a

1613
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:38,240
you know obviously learn the material so

1614
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,640
you're a bit more confident but it's

1615
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:42,000
it's b it's having that conscious effort

1616
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,880
in your mind to

1617
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,920
slow down you're the way you were

1618
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,440
speaking to bring you back into your

1619
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,040
normal kind of speed

1620
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,960
because when you're rattling through it

1621
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:53,119
fast you lose

1622
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,720
you sound less confident you lose the

1623
00:56:53,119 --> 00:56:56,240
nuance you lose the detail because

1624
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:57,760
you're just blasting through and sounds

1625
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:59,359
like this anyway and this and

1626
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:02,480
profitability is that anyway uh bye

1627
00:56:59,359 --> 00:57:04,319
thanks listening and no one's really

1628
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:07,119
paid attention so you know

1629
00:57:04,319 --> 00:57:08,880
just from a human being point of view

1630
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:10,480
there's rooms and reams of evidence in

1631
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,920
in how that's important just from

1632
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,760
standing up in front of you know 30 of

1633
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,359
your classmates and telling them about

1634
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,880
this piece of work you've done so

1635
00:57:15,359 --> 00:57:19,040
obviously you can apply

1636
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:20,960
that very same thinking to just being a

1637
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,480
dm and being like okay i'm not

1638
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,480
particularly nervous right now although

1639
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,520
some will be but yeah just slowing it

1640
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,680
down

1641
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:30,880
one more notch can have the the opposite

1642
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:33,599
effect of speeding it up unsurprisingly

1643
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,559
oh yeah yeah i did stage acting in high

1644
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:36,960
school

1645
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:39,680
and one of the ways that we rehearsed

1646
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:42,000
was we would rehearse speaking as fast

1647
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:45,359
as we possibly could and going through

1648
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:48,559
the motions as fast as we possibly could

1649
00:57:45,359 --> 00:57:50,640
just to give ourselves uh kind of a

1650
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:54,240
range at which

1651
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:55,839
we could actually operate so if it was a

1652
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,760
one-hour show

1653
00:57:55,839 --> 00:57:59,280
then we would try like we would set

1654
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,119
ourselves a goal to get it done in 40

1655
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,280
minutes speed running exactly we would

1656
00:58:01,119 --> 00:58:05,680
speed run the show and

1657
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:08,160
when we did that it gave at least it

1658
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,040
gave me a more conscious understanding

1659
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,680
of

1660
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:13,359
what pace am i actually performing at

1661
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,280
and then when we got to the actual show

1662
00:58:13,359 --> 00:58:17,040
we would perform it you know three times

1663
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,040
friday saturday sunday

1664
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,720
and um when we would actually get in

1665
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,319
there and perform the show

1666
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,920
i would be able to carry that with me a

1667
00:58:22,319 --> 00:58:26,000
little bit more and of course we'd been

1668
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,799
rehearsing for months so the confidence

1669
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,119
was

1670
00:58:26,799 --> 00:58:30,079
uh was available to us

1671
00:58:29,119 --> 00:58:32,640
but

1672
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:35,119
still having that idea of i can finish

1673
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:36,720
this show in 40 minutes if i'm not

1674
00:58:35,119 --> 00:58:38,799
careful

1675
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,920
let me bring it in

1676
00:58:38,799 --> 00:58:41,760
you know

1677
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:44,000
it can be really really helpful so if

1678
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,000
you're going to practice as a gm that's

1679
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,240
something that i would suggest is try to

1680
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,319
speed run through all of the

1681
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:52,319
uh descriptions that you're going to use

1682
00:58:50,319 --> 00:58:54,799
and that'll give you an idea of okay how

1683
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:57,040
fast can i actually say this

1684
00:58:54,799 --> 00:59:00,880
if i'm not paying attention

1685
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:03,119
um and conversely if i may um

1686
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,440
because i've i did improv comedy for a

1687
00:59:03,119 --> 00:59:07,680
couple of years when i was in college uh

1688
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:10,000
one of our warm-up exercises was

1689
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,960
actually slow motion

1690
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,160
movement

1691
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:16,319
uh like going through things like

1692
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:17,119
exceptionally slowly um whether you're

1693
00:59:16,319 --> 00:59:19,599
like

1694
00:59:17,119 --> 00:59:20,720
doing slow motion like

1695
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:22,000
fighting

1696
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,720
and

1697
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:26,880
doing exaggerated reactions or doing

1698
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,760
reactions that are totally unexpected

1699
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:31,480
but like just going through things

1700
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:34,640
deliberately slowly like

1701
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:36,640
exceptionally so like whatever you think

1702
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,880
sloth speed is

1703
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,720
even slower than that that was our

1704
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:44,079
warm-up exercise

1705
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:48,480
for uh getting ourselves loose

1706
00:59:44,079 --> 00:59:49,599
and getting ourselves relaxed

1707
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,880
well uh

1708
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:55,200
thank you uh all for for sharing

1709
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:57,200
your expertise and knowledge in

1710
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:59,520
in these areas that on the face of it i

1711
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:04,000
wouldn't have immediately applied to

1712
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:06,480
uh dnd and hdrpgs and yet here we are uh

1713
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,400
we're good for that

1714
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,480
uh is is there anything about the topic

1715
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,960
of motion that you wanted to discuss

1716
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:15,200
that we might not have hit yet

1717
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:16,880
uh the only other thing i you see a lot

1718
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,960
of people like complaining about like

1719
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:20,960
specific races because they have certain

1720
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:23,040
types of motion whether that's like swim

1721
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,799
speeds or fly speeds

1722
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,720
i think just to briefly touch on that i

1723
01:00:24,799 --> 01:00:29,040
think the big thing with that is just

1724
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:32,400
knowing what you're in for like

1725
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:34,559
is a fly speed a little overpowered

1726
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,319
maybe but if you're planning for it it's

1727
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:38,160
not going to be that big of a deal it's

1728
01:00:36,319 --> 01:00:40,640
i think it boils down to knowing you're

1729
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:43,680
knowing your party and knowing that team

1730
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:45,760
at the end of the day yeah absolutely as

1731
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,599
as much as it because usually i don't

1732
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,760
pay too too much attention to stat

1733
01:00:47,599 --> 01:00:52,079
blocks even as a dm and yet paying

1734
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:54,400
attention to stat blocks is

1735
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:56,960
important and paying attention to your

1736
01:00:54,400 --> 01:01:00,000
player character's stat blocks are very

1737
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:01,920
important like reading is fundamental

1738
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,319
reading is fundamental also it would

1739
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:07,200
really really suck to plan an encounter

1740
01:01:04,319 --> 01:01:09,440
with like for example a displacer beast

1741
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:11,760
and suddenly your cleric is like i cast

1742
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,280
banishment and it's like oh because the

1743
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,760
displacer beast is not native to this

1744
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:17,599
plane of existence that that shit's gone

1745
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,760
yep okay

1746
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:21,280
yep that that happened to me so that's

1747
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,359
fine definitely not you're not bringing

1748
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:25,440
up any bad memories there's a gymnast oh

1749
01:01:23,359 --> 01:01:26,640
no it totally happened to me too i feel

1750
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,720
you dude

1751
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,079
yeah i do two big flying

1752
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,960
guys from

1753
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:34,720
one of the layers of the abyss and

1754
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:36,960
my sorcerer took a pump and just said

1755
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,880
they look alien enough banishment and i

1756
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:42,079
was like oh okay this is now trivial

1757
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:43,280
combat yep and yeah it did go did try

1758
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:45,119
and break the concentration but it

1759
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:47,920
wasn't wasn't quick enough and uh yeah

1760
01:01:45,119 --> 01:01:50,319
that that was that so uh yeah yeah know

1761
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:54,559
your players capabilities ah yeah and

1762
01:01:50,319 --> 01:01:56,160
the fly thing i love as a fear because

1763
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:59,839
i have been there as well and it's a

1764
01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:01,599
genuine concern again indicative of

1765
01:01:59,839 --> 01:02:04,000
how the majority of games are played in

1766
01:02:01,599 --> 01:02:05,200
tier one and two when it makes the

1767
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:08,160
biggest difference

1768
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:10,079
because as soon as my warlock got fly

1769
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,680
like he was like i'm not standing on the

1770
01:02:10,079 --> 01:02:13,359
ground you guys are chumps walking

1771
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,680
around i'm flying like any given

1772
01:02:13,359 --> 01:02:17,280
opportunity i'm flying fighting enemies

1773
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,160
i'm flying talking to a merchant i'm

1774
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,119
flying

1775
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:20,960
buying

1776
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:22,559
shoes i'm flying which is weird because

1777
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:25,359
shoes are for walking on the ground but

1778
01:02:22,559 --> 01:02:27,359
he'd still be flying and so when

1779
01:02:25,359 --> 01:02:29,760
when that band-aid was torn off i was

1780
01:02:27,359 --> 01:02:31,230
like oh okay it was no longer this big

1781
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,880
scary thing that i had to worry about

1782
01:02:31,230 --> 01:02:34,720
[Laughter]

1783
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,079
yeah i mean once you get to tier three

1784
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,240
where like

1785
01:02:36,079 --> 01:02:41,039
people can move between dimensions and

1786
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:42,960
[ __ ] like yeah it's it's a negligible i

1787
01:02:41,039 --> 01:02:44,319
mean even at tier two like several

1788
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,760
classes are going to give you like i

1789
01:02:44,319 --> 01:02:48,240
want to say there uh there are some

1790
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:50,079
rangers they give you like swim speeds

1791
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,559
or climb speeds and stuff like that so

1792
01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:53,520
it's just it's negligible it is yeah

1793
01:02:52,559 --> 01:02:55,839
yeah

1794
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:58,240
well awesome so

1795
01:02:55,839 --> 01:02:59,839
after after that is there anything that

1796
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,680
you would like to

1797
01:02:59,839 --> 01:03:03,200
promote that you haven't already

1798
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,680
sneakily promoted halfway through the

1799
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,680
episode

1800
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:10,960
you could have done this

1801
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:12,640
oh gee i i have no idea what you're

1802
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:14,480
talking about we need to point fingers

1803
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:17,480
and we need to get to the bottom of who

1804
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,480
did

1805
01:03:18,079 --> 01:03:23,359
um well yeah uh you know we're the

1806
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:25,760
fourth leg as we talked about at the

1807
01:03:23,359 --> 01:03:28,240
start of the show top of the show

1808
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:30,880
we are like i said at the top of the

1809
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:32,000
show a tabletop gaming show that dives

1810
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,880
into

1811
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:37,680
a comprehensive guide on how to start

1812
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:39,280
your career gm'ing and we're currently

1813
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:41,200
coming to

1814
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,559
a rapid close to season two i think

1815
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,720
we've only got like two or three more

1816
01:03:42,559 --> 01:03:48,079
episodes to release

1817
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:49,839
so get in on that uh we are currently

1818
01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:51,839
building through a

1819
01:03:49,839 --> 01:03:54,240
uh well three different campaign

1820
01:03:51,839 --> 01:03:56,960
settings that are originally created one

1821
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,079
by each host and in different systems no

1822
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,359
less

1823
01:03:58,079 --> 01:04:04,480
into different systems no less using d5e

1824
01:04:01,359 --> 01:04:06,559
the genesis system uh by fantasy flight

1825
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,240
games and powered by the apocalypse

1826
01:04:06,559 --> 01:04:09,920
system set in a

1827
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:11,520
cyberpunk wasteland

1828
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,039
so those are coming along really nicely

1829
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,559
and we do our best to incorporate the

1830
01:04:13,039 --> 01:04:17,599
things that we've talked about in prior

1831
01:04:14,559 --> 01:04:19,599
episodes directly into the next stages

1832
01:04:17,599 --> 01:04:22,000
of our campaign so we're coming up on

1833
01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:24,319
the fourth installment of that uh so

1834
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:26,160
stay tuned heck yeah oh and you can find

1835
01:04:24,319 --> 01:04:28,000
us on spotify and a bunch of other

1836
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,720
podcatchers and follow our twitter at

1837
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,960
the fourth leg yes uh your podcast

1838
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,480
platform of choice i'm sure

1839
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:38,000
perhaps the very one that people are

1840
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,000
listening to right now i would imagine

1841
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:44,880
oh yeah well uh in that case all that's

1842
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:47,680
left to say is very very heartfelt

1843
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:49,520
thanks to the the three of you today joe

1844
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:51,680
kelsey and hunter that was that was a

1845
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:53,200
really really really really interesting

1846
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,440
discussion

1847
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,200
on something which is on the face of it

1848
01:04:55,440 --> 01:05:01,039
a bit um

1849
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:03,280
esoteric extract yeah yeah

1850
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:05,039
and they're just kind of like how

1851
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:07,520
don't like but but how could this topic

1852
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:10,720
ever be applied to ttrpgs and i'm very

1853
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:14,640
happy to have answered that hypothetical

1854
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:14,640
question from my invisible hater

1855
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:19,839
yeah no we talked about rocks and hills

1856
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,680
and meats and honey it's great and now

1857
01:05:19,839 --> 01:05:22,880
i'm hungry again despite having just had

1858
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:25,599
dinner so cool

1859
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:27,119
[Laughter]

1860
01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:28,720
thank you thank you i haven't eaten

1861
01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:30,400
dinner yet so maybe that's why i started

1862
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,680
talking about food

1863
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,720
all these food

1864
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,839
food is

1865
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:37,839
food is a great topic

1866
01:05:34,839 --> 01:05:39,920
regardless but i could also eat all the

1867
01:05:37,839 --> 01:05:40,720
time i'm not the kind of person well

1868
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:41,920
yeah

1869
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,440
you're providing additional value

1870
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:45,359
because food isn't a topic that we've

1871
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:48,160
covered yet so that's now on the list so

1872
01:05:45,359 --> 01:05:49,520
thank you very much

1873
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,280
and we've talked about it a little bit

1874
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,039
in this episode you're welcome

1875
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,880
we'll see we'll see you all back uh next

1876
01:05:53,039 --> 01:05:56,400
season for food for food yeah season

1877
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:57,920
four

1878
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,520
the food lake i don't know something

1879
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,920
there's there's a pun somewhere in there

1880
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:06,319
buried in there

1881
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:06,319
the fourth leg of chicken oh there we go

1882
01:06:07,119 --> 01:06:10,480
all right okay okay leg of land yeah so

1883
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,839
there's something there's something

1884
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,200
knocking around there we'll we'll

1885
01:06:11,839 --> 01:06:15,280
workshop it and come back in the next

1886
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:17,119
season um but

1887
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:19,920
with these terrible puns i can't think

1888
01:06:17,119 --> 01:06:21,039
of a better place to end the episode

1889
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,640
[Music]

1890
01:06:21,039 --> 01:06:24,960
thank you all uh

1891
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,880
for listening at home please do check

1892
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:29,039
out the episode description for the

1893
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,280
links to the fourth leg as well as all

1894
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:32,960
of my socials and i'd very much

1895
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:35,200
encourage you to reach out to any of us

1896
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,720
to talk about rocks or food um

1897
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:40,079
two primary topics

1898
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:41,760
uh otherwise thank you all for listening

1899
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:44,720
and good night

1900
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:46,319
good night thank you take it easy guys

1901
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,359
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1902
01:06:46,319 --> 01:06:49,599
outs

1903
01:06:47,359 --> 01:06:52,079
thank you to optional rule a two time

1904
01:06:49,599 --> 01:06:54,880
guest of the show and a very insightful

1905
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:56,160
and knowledgeable source of information

1906
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:59,160
please check them out at

1907
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:59,160
www.optionalrule.com

1908
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:04,880
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1909
01:07:02,319 --> 01:07:07,280
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1910
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:09,680
out there making hilarious and

1911
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:11,440
educational dungeons and dragons content

1912
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,200
please go and check out his stuff at

1913
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,599
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1914
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:17,200
links to all of his socials and all of

1915
01:07:15,599 --> 01:07:18,880
his content including his own patreon

1916
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,640
which i would very much encourage you to

1917
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:23,520
check out

1918
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:25,440
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1919
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,720
on twitter for supporting the show

1920
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:29,720
if you need support running your

1921
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:31,920
personal or business schedule head to

1922
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:33,599
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1923
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,760
make that difference between should do

1924
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:37,520
and done boss it better with support

1925
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,839
from cat who will help you get back that

1926
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,280
essential time you've been searching for

1927
01:07:39,839 --> 01:07:43,200
if you would like to support what we do

1928
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:45,920
and get four shout outs a month head

1929
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:47,440
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1930
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:51,390
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1931
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:58,400
kofi.com thinking critically

1932
01:07:51,390 --> 01:08:18,640
[Music]