More Mistakes

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welcome thinkers to season 4 episode 9

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of thinking critically a d d discussion

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this week I just want to drive you all

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to the website thinking critically dot

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Co dot UK because there you can search

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by category and also by guests and see

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who you've had on the show previously

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and also off the top of my head there's

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also links to patreon and Kofi

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and also you can see what projects I've

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had the luck to be invited onto and

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there's some really good stuff on there

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so I'd really recommend it so yeah

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thinking critically dot Co dot UK and as

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usual check out the link to dungeons

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Dyson dudes where you can hear me be a

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player with that out of the way strap in

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for today's episode

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[Music]

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foreign

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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joined by Derek the host of The Hamilton

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podcast thank you ever so much for

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joining us today Derek can you tell us a

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little bit about yourself

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yes first of all thanks so much for

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having me on uh Dan uh Danilo Danny what

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do you what do you prefer to be called I

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mean

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I mean so many things you know don't go

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down low why don't we make it make it

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okay A Change down below the the very UK

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pronunciation of your name yes

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sorry Brits I gotta take a little dick

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when I can so uh all right uh yeah so

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I'm Derek I live in the great state of

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Utah grew up in the state of Colorado

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just to the east uh spent my whole life

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save a few years here and there uh in

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the Rocky Mountains so that's kind of

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been where I've lived and it's shaped a

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lot about me it shaped a lot about what

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I enjoy to do when I'm not podcasting

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and when I'm not playing d d I like

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being outside I like you know grilling I

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like hiking I like skiing that kind of

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thing a lot of outdoorsy stuff like

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playing sports that sort of thing but

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yeah uh so that's where I live I've been

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playing games for about

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yeah four years now

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um and most of that has been running

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games uh with a few uh interludes here

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and there right I started off as a

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player just for a few sessions here and

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there played through lost line of

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fandelver game with my co-workers and

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brother at work during lunch breaks

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which was a lot of fun uh then halfway

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through that I said this dming thing

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seems really fun I should start writing

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my own stuff opened up a Google doc

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began dumping ideas out from from inside

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my brain in there and have been going

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ever since so uh yeah like I said uh

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every summer I or the last couple

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Summers I've taken off and um some other

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member of my gaming group will take over

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uh right now that same brother is is

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running us through uh water deep Dragon

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Heist which has been a lot of fun

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haven't played through it yet so just

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started that last summer we did a game

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in um Matt Mercer's uh wild Mount

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campaign book uh that my other friend

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Matthew ran uh which was a ton of fun

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too we did like a really high level

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exploration of aorian ruins so if you no

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critical role you know what I'm talking

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about but if you don't then you should

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go check it out but yeah that's that's

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kind of what I've been doing of late a

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lot of d d I've played a few other games

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here and there I have a bunch of books

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of stuff I'd like to play but it's just

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uh you know in the middle of a game

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right now I don't want to stop our

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momentum yeah but yeah eventually I'd

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love to play some Star Wars I would love

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to try monster of the week have all

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those books I have a Star Finder book I

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have some Pathfinder books that I have

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uh yet to dig into so someday I will

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play all of these games I keep telling

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myself as I buy more and more yeah yeah

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I mean I've got my alien dtrpg box

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sitting downstairs that I love to read

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through and then was like yeah no I just

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have to find time yeah my friend Fiona

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uh she lives up in Burnley or no she

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lives in London she's from Burnley

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anyway

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um she is a big fan of alien too and one

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of these days I'd love to play with her

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so if we do I'll let you know oh yeah

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please oh that's a hidden value to this

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episode recording I'm happy with now

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that's good

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uh well thank you so much today's topic

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is mistakes so what does that mean to

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you in the D D and wider ttrpg framework

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yeah uh so I'm cheating a little bit

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here because of my own show which I will

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talk about later uh but I have another a

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podcast called how not to DM a more

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structured interview uh than your show

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so slightly different but I love to ask

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people about the mistakes they've made

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while running games and what kinds of

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lessons the rest of us can learn from

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them so that we don't make the same

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mistakes you have I I guess is kind of

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like the idea behind it right so I chose

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mistakes because I've heard of a lot of

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mistakes people have made over the past

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year and some change

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um but I know I make a ton of them

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myself

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and uh yeah I just think it's it's a

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really interesting thing to talk about

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because uh they're they're kind of two

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mindsets that I've heard people have

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um most people will have the mindset of

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I've made a lot of mistakes here's what

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they are and then other people have the

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mindset of you know I've never actually

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made a mistake and I go what do you mean

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um but they say it's because it's always

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a learning experience and in my mind

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they're they're kind of the same thing

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but uh yeah that's why I wanted to talk

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about them because

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I think you and I both having a decade

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of experience running games here um

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combined will will have a lot of ideas

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about what kind of mistakes people could

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make but then also what good things

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we've learned from them and how that

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could make any listener out there see

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things differently or perhaps avoid some

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of the the pitfalls that we've

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experienced yeah and that that's exactly

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what I think I love

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telling other people not just about my d

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d mistakes but about my General Life

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mistakes uh true and work and whatnot

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because I'm like please let me help you

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live live vicariously through me and

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just have the benefit of me making the

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mistake so you don't have to have the

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cost uh and the same it said for D and D

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but I want to ask as the premise of your

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show is you know asking people what

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their mistakes and keep it keep it nice

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and anonymized but what was the biggest

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or the one that had the most impact

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shall we say it's hard to obviously

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judge this there's no there's no like

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you know objective metric but in terms

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of what was the one thing that someone

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told you and you went wow okay

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the one that comes to mind for me is

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about someone not doing

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um some work up front before starting

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the game a lot of people call that a

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session zero to make sure that the

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players that they were going to be

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playing with were comfortable with

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certain subject matters that they had

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coming up in their game the funny thing

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about this is I've talked to a few

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different people who've made the same

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point that the people they play games

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with sometimes they've known for for

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decades you know they've been friends

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since they were very young and yet still

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there can be things that get brought up

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in a game you're playing together that

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you don't know are really triggering or

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could be really sensitive topics for

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them and that's fascinating right like

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I know few people I would say well

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enough to say

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exactly what is and isn't going to be

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triggering for them just because they're

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they're like family or or extremely

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close friends right and even my close

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friends you know you don't know what

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they go through day to day you don't

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know what's happening within their

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family

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um or or their life experiences

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necessarily and unless they've shared

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everything with you you don't know that

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so yeah the the big Palm sweating

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mistakes that that I've heard um people

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mention in my show or or just kind of in

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conversation are the ones where they

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feel like they know someone really well

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and then they bring up something in a

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game that is just very traumatizing for

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someone that they uh know really well

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and they have to walk it back they put

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their foot in their mouth you know they

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apologize and most of the time it seems

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like it it turns out okay but I'm sure

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there have been times that I haven't

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heard of where that ruins a friendship

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uh or or a relationship you have with

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someone so yeah a big minefield

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and I think it's just best practice to

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make sure that you are all on the same

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page before you start just in case

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especially if you're planning on doing

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you know horror type or like gruesome or

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whatever type games uh anything that's

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going to be graphic or that that uh a

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movie would list as like a reason why

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it's rated what it is I think is

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something you should discuss yeah it

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isn't just like sword and board dungeon

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Delvin

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yeah there's there's one the fortune

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I've never been I've made never made

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that bigger faux pas same but one of the

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players in my game is again I know very

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well we we meet up every two weeks to

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play ball games together

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um it works he was my boss for like

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three four years or something so in my

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career so that's like eight hours a day

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every day with that person but even

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still he has a kid which is something I

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don't have so there is

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like there's life experience there that

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I cannot empathize with yet and there

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were times when we have

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played and there's been children

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involved in the game and I've seen him

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wince and I've had to have a second to

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go ah okay going forward I might wind

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that in a little bit because it that's

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something I would never have thought

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about or even considered because I'm

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just not in that mindset yes and that's

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yeah precisely a very lightweight

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version of what we've what you've just

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discussed as the closest I've been yeah

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in speaking as a newer father I totally

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get what you're saying and

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now like watching TV and movies and

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stuff before my son was born none of

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that stuff would have really bothered me

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but now that he's around and I can just

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like like you said empathize I can put

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myself in the shoes of the people who

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are losing kids or or whatever is

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happening in the show or the movie or

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whatever it is that I'm consuming yeah

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it has and like a a real impact on me

272
00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:30,540
because I I like know what it would feel

273
00:10:28,260 --> 00:10:33,120
like or or can can imagine what it would

274
00:10:30,540 --> 00:10:36,079
feel like so yeah it's it's crazy right

275
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:39,779
everybody has such different experiences

276
00:10:36,079 --> 00:10:42,180
and you never know what is or is going

277
00:10:39,779 --> 00:10:44,459
to be something that that digs something

278
00:10:42,180 --> 00:10:46,320
up for someone so it's just best to to

279
00:10:44,459 --> 00:10:49,140
lay it all out in the open and be

280
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:52,019
cautious about it because I say so we've

281
00:10:49,140 --> 00:10:53,940
done like the serious face mistake now

282
00:10:52,019 --> 00:10:57,839
that has like real world implications I

283
00:10:53,940 --> 00:11:00,240
want to hear about like goofy like

284
00:10:57,839 --> 00:11:02,160
slapstick mistakes of anything that you

285
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:05,220
might but the biggest one that was like

286
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:08,519
well I guess they can teleport now or

287
00:11:05,220 --> 00:11:11,120
they've all got wings that whoops uh

288
00:11:08,519 --> 00:11:11,120
anyway yeah

289
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:18,480
um so a funny one uh and it kind of

290
00:11:15,660 --> 00:11:20,820
seems trivial but I ran last minor fan

291
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,620
Delver for my group after having played

292
00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:25,740
through it as like the the introduction

293
00:11:22,620 --> 00:11:27,180
to d d and then I have homebrewed off of

294
00:11:25,740 --> 00:11:28,800
that and we've kind of gone different

295
00:11:27,180 --> 00:11:30,899
directions since then but yeah after

296
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,880
finishing the mine um there's a plot

297
00:11:30,899 --> 00:11:33,959
hook spoilers for lost minor fendover if

298
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,660
you haven't played it there's a plot

299
00:11:33,959 --> 00:11:40,380
hook where within the mine you find a

300
00:11:36,660 --> 00:11:42,420
map and the guide or the book says and

301
00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:43,800
you could put a map in here that for the

302
00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:45,000
players to find and if they find it it

303
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,860
could be your plot hook for your next

304
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,180
adventure and I was like perfect that I

305
00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:50,339
will use that you know I'll use that

306
00:11:48,180 --> 00:11:52,680
plot hook and it'll be a treasure map

307
00:11:50,339 --> 00:11:54,360
you know a bunch of islands and like

308
00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,980
stuff you've got to find and a bunch of

309
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,959
little x's and you've got to figure out

310
00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:59,519
why you've you know you're going to to

311
00:11:57,959 --> 00:12:01,500
all these different places so I thought

312
00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:03,180
it'd be fun to do the little pirate uh

313
00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:05,100
kind of campaign or a little treasure

314
00:12:03,180 --> 00:12:08,579
hunting after that so

315
00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:11,040
the the players went off made friends

316
00:12:08,579 --> 00:12:12,480
with a a captain you know started

317
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:16,019
sailing around and going to all these

318
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:18,959
spots and um I gave them as a magical

319
00:12:16,019 --> 00:12:22,200
item I was like because I was a new DM

320
00:12:18,959 --> 00:12:24,480
and because I had just stopped running a

321
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,760
published Adventure that is very much uh

322
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,260
on the rails right you can you can uh

323
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,839
improvise as much as you want with

324
00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:33,480
written stuff or published stuff but

325
00:12:30,839 --> 00:12:35,940
because I was new I was just going

326
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,860
exactly by the book and so that's kind

327
00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:40,079
of how I structured this next adventure

328
00:12:37,860 --> 00:12:42,300
but I was trying to figure out how do I

329
00:12:40,079 --> 00:12:44,339
get them to just go from A to B to C to

330
00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:46,680
D and get them to go in the right order

331
00:12:44,339 --> 00:12:48,540
in the right direction uh essentially

332
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:50,220
trying to Railroad them like how am I

333
00:12:48,540 --> 00:12:53,220
gonna do this so I gave them a magical

334
00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:55,380
item which is a small Compass much like

335
00:12:53,220 --> 00:12:57,120
Jack Sparrow's compass that that points

336
00:12:55,380 --> 00:12:58,260
at something but you have to tell it

337
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,380
what you want

338
00:12:58,260 --> 00:13:03,060
and then it consumes a gold coin and it

339
00:13:01,380 --> 00:13:05,639
will point at the direction of the thing

340
00:13:03,060 --> 00:13:08,360
you have described or you've told it

341
00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:10,860
um you want to go do or or go um find

342
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,139
and believe it or not giving your

343
00:13:10,860 --> 00:13:15,959
players something that can find anything

344
00:13:13,139 --> 00:13:18,420
or anyone in your whole world

345
00:13:15,959 --> 00:13:20,700
whenever they want it could be a little

346
00:13:18,420 --> 00:13:21,959
game breaking yeah

347
00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:22,680
so

348
00:13:21,959 --> 00:13:25,560
um

349
00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:27,420
I I joke like we joke uh you know and

350
00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:29,519
they're all really good players so

351
00:13:27,420 --> 00:13:31,560
they're not trying to destroy my game or

352
00:13:29,519 --> 00:13:32,639
or like be you know as chaotic as

353
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:35,100
possible they're pretty good at

354
00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:36,899
following plot hooks anyway so

355
00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:39,899
um they've been good at not abusing it

356
00:13:36,899 --> 00:13:41,940
and I found some ways to Nerf it so to

357
00:13:39,899 --> 00:13:43,920
speak here and there like I've limited

358
00:13:41,940 --> 00:13:45,959
it to the number of times they can use

359
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,459
it per day and oftentimes it just like

360
00:13:45,959 --> 00:13:48,779
sits in their bag of holding and they

361
00:13:47,459 --> 00:13:51,000
don't touch it really you know because

362
00:13:48,779 --> 00:13:53,279
they forget about it like players do

363
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,380
with magic items anyway

364
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:57,959
um but yeah that was a funny one and uh

365
00:13:55,380 --> 00:13:59,940
I'm realizing now like having a thing

366
00:13:57,959 --> 00:14:01,980
that can point you to where whatever you

367
00:13:59,940 --> 00:14:03,240
want whenever you want means like yeah I

368
00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:06,000
have to be ready

369
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:08,279
to describe any place that they're going

370
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,839
to go if they think of looking for

371
00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:11,820
something and then going and finding it

372
00:14:09,839 --> 00:14:14,399
so but anyway yeah that's that's been

373
00:14:11,820 --> 00:14:16,380
pretty funny that that is well that I

374
00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:20,220
love that story because that is

375
00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:22,740
classic the classic DM naivety of yes

376
00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:24,420
this is benign and will be great and

377
00:14:22,740 --> 00:14:26,100
everyone will have a better game for it

378
00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:29,459
and in the moment the players get it

379
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:31,320
it's that look of oh no wait I didn't

380
00:14:29,459 --> 00:14:33,240
think about 90 of the things they could

381
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,180
do with this item that happens all the

382
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,699
time everybody's done it every DM is in

383
00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:40,620
in from small things to big things that

384
00:14:38,699 --> 00:14:43,800
exact thing has happened a hundred times

385
00:14:40,620 --> 00:14:45,600
yes it's the archetypical one so avoid

386
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,360
The Golden Compass or whatever you want

387
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,339
to call it don't do that a similar one

388
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,260
for me is my players on the trail of

389
00:14:50,339 --> 00:14:54,180
mcguffins basically for like a better

390
00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:56,459
term and so there's a bunch of artifacts

391
00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:58,440
it's the classic you know the magical

392
00:14:56,459 --> 00:15:00,240
Special artifacts some are some are

393
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,000
weapons some are literally like

394
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:05,339
artifacts in in game wondrous items or

395
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,220
whatever you want to call them and one

396
00:15:05,339 --> 00:15:10,920
made sense in Universe to be the cubic

397
00:15:08,220 --> 00:15:13,019
gate so it's literally a cube a big D6

398
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,300
and on each side there's a it's linked

399
00:15:13,019 --> 00:15:17,519
to a plane of existence and you can

400
00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:19,920
press the button and either cast plane

401
00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:21,480
shift or the other teleportation spell I

402
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,339
can't remember and when I originally

403
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,720
designed that's one of them I was like

404
00:15:23,339 --> 00:15:27,120
they'll get it you know maybe three

405
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,800
quarters in of throughout all of the

406
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,600
mcguffins and then they can use it to

407
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,940
get the final few ones that happen to be

408
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,259
on these more exotic planes and the way

409
00:15:32,940 --> 00:15:35,759
that my players went through the

410
00:15:34,259 --> 00:15:38,220
mcguffins has actually got it quite a

411
00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:40,680
lot earlier so there's a couple left on

412
00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:42,420
the material plane and so anything I'd

413
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,759
had planned from how to get from home

414
00:15:42,420 --> 00:15:46,980
base to this McGuffin McGuffin a or home

415
00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:48,240
base tickets this McGuffin B

416
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:49,259
the player was like no I'll just

417
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,079
teleport

418
00:15:49,259 --> 00:15:53,759
so they they literally trivialized one

419
00:15:52,079 --> 00:15:57,060
whole chapter that would have taken

420
00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:59,040
maybe five to ten sessions into three

421
00:15:57,060 --> 00:16:01,500
sessions because I just went

422
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,180
to the first place what's going on oh we

423
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:05,220
need to go there okay Boop we're there

424
00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:06,660
now and we've got it and that was it and

425
00:16:05,220 --> 00:16:09,060
there was like no combat because they

426
00:16:06,660 --> 00:16:10,139
just did it and got to the end but I

427
00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:12,540
quite like that because I was like hey

428
00:16:10,139 --> 00:16:14,639
you've got the special item now it's not

429
00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:16,860
it you've got it use it like teleport

430
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:18,180
around I don't care uh the player was

431
00:16:16,860 --> 00:16:19,680
the player was very nice and the same

432
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:22,199
with your players are good he did say

433
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,639
like don't know if if you don't want me

434
00:16:22,199 --> 00:16:25,620
to teleport somewhere we can come up

435
00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:27,540
with some reason to for it not to fizzle

436
00:16:25,620 --> 00:16:29,160
out or I I just won't do it in game I

437
00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:31,620
said you know what no it's fine I've

438
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,600
made that bed I'm happy to line it makes

439
00:16:31,620 --> 00:16:35,759
my life easier for us that act a chapter

440
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,060
so that's fine I'll take that as a free

441
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:40,920
video we'll just

442
00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:42,000
move I love it uh have you played the

443
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,160
Pokemon

444
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,380
um games for like Game Boy anything like

445
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:50,100
that yeah yeah yeah yeah that reminds me

446
00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:52,019
of like getting the fly didn't move it

447
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:53,519
like uh you know like within your first

448
00:16:52,019 --> 00:16:55,259
gym badge or something and hell you can

449
00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:57,300
just fly wherever you want instead of

450
00:16:55,259 --> 00:16:59,220
having to like progress slowly and visit

451
00:16:57,300 --> 00:17:01,820
everywhere and then you get to start

452
00:16:59,220 --> 00:17:04,620
traveling around uh yeah

453
00:17:01,820 --> 00:17:06,600
so I mean what you see here's the thing

454
00:17:04,620 --> 00:17:08,400
right so good I'm glad we've

455
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,919
accidentally stumbled onto this in this

456
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,079
way of yes it might have been a mistake

457
00:17:10,919 --> 00:17:14,280
but here's how it was I attempted to

458
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:15,720
reframe it in a way that was still

459
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,280
exciting and interesting was that

460
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,799
because

461
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,720
technically it's specifically the cubic

462
00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:23,220
gate rules is written is it takes you to

463
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,620
a different plane of existence there's

464
00:17:23,220 --> 00:17:26,819
one key to every side and if you try and

465
00:17:25,620 --> 00:17:28,079
press the button that's on you're

466
00:17:26,819 --> 00:17:29,760
currently no existence nothing happens

467
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:33,120
because you're already there okay hunky

468
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:35,460
dory my inventive player you get a

469
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:37,080
couple of uses a day basically so he was

470
00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:38,580
like oh so I can teleport to anywhere on

471
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,220
the material plane as long as I'm not on

472
00:17:38,580 --> 00:17:42,539
the material plane luckily there's five

473
00:17:41,220 --> 00:17:44,580
other sides to take me to a different

474
00:17:42,539 --> 00:17:47,220
plane so what he was doing is they were

475
00:17:44,580 --> 00:17:49,679
hopping all in to say the astral plane

476
00:17:47,220 --> 00:17:51,360
for six seconds and then quickly hopping

477
00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:53,820
back the material plane but to the

478
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:56,039
location they wanted to go to it was

479
00:17:53,820 --> 00:17:58,380
literally just a hop in dip our toes in

480
00:17:56,039 --> 00:18:00,720
just enough to get us back and then we

481
00:17:58,380 --> 00:18:03,600
can you can essentially effectively have

482
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:06,059
a Teleport on the material plane so

483
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,919
he has met me halfway and he's tried to

484
00:18:06,059 --> 00:18:10,620
use a different button every time so

485
00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:12,360
everyone gets a little glimpse into the

486
00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:13,799
astral plane or the plane of air and

487
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:15,240
then I'm like yeah you've gone to some

488
00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:17,280
place and there's no ground and you're

489
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,660
just falling through the sky and then

490
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,700
everyone looks at that Warlock and it's

491
00:18:18,660 --> 00:18:24,380
like dude stop taking us to these like

492
00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:24,380
crazy dangerous places

493
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,860
yeah plane of fire like they're they're

494
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,400
in a volcano all of a sudden it's like

495
00:18:28,860 --> 00:18:34,200
well you take a lot of fire damage yeah

496
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,820
yeah the plate of fire is one of them

497
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,280
they haven't pressed it yet

498
00:18:35,820 --> 00:18:40,260
um but they're gone so yeah there's been

499
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,360
like every time they've done it at least

500
00:18:40,260 --> 00:18:43,260
one of them has been like oh no I want

501
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,000
to go back there because that seemed

502
00:18:43,260 --> 00:18:46,320
like a really interesting place and I'm

503
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,600
like yeah because it's a place made of

504
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:54,179
dreams and isn't just made of like taxes

505
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:56,820
like the material plane is yeah yeah

506
00:18:54,179 --> 00:18:58,740
before most recording sessions I asked

507
00:18:56,820 --> 00:19:00,900
my my other half who is not really into

508
00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:02,700
dtrpgs just for disclaimer but I always

509
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:04,200
ask her it's one of the reasons why I

510
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:06,059
ask is because I say what is what does

511
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,600
this word mean to you so I can have a

512
00:19:06,059 --> 00:19:11,880
completely like out of the bubble idea

513
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,620
and and she came back with something

514
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,840
that I hadn't thought of which is

515
00:19:13,620 --> 00:19:17,400
you can talk about making mistakes and

516
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,140
regrets and what you can learn from them

517
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,080
but she raised a good point that was

518
00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:23,760
like why why or how do these mistakes

519
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,580
propagate him currently we're talking

520
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:29,880
about DM mistakes so let's continue that

521
00:19:26,580 --> 00:19:32,340
train and say like why or how do you

522
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,500
think these mistakes and these maybe

523
00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:37,740
some more archetypical mistakes keep

524
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:39,600
happening and maybe some more specific

525
00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:41,580
and Niche mistakes also have this this

526
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,039
you know so maybe why it's so prone or

527
00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:46,559
why it's so difficult to to do as a as

528
00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:49,140
an activity but you know so the the

529
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:52,919
chance of making a mistake is so high

530
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:55,380
relative to say I know running is the

531
00:19:52,919 --> 00:19:59,520
the first activity that came to my head

532
00:19:55,380 --> 00:20:01,260
yeah uh I think she's got a good point

533
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,900
and I think you made a good point

534
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:06,720
earlier as well about being naive I

535
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:09,000
think that that to me is the thing that

536
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,940
leads to the most mistakes especially

537
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:14,039
early on as being naive to all of the

538
00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:16,679
different things that players may try to

539
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:18,840
do being naive to all of the the ways

540
00:20:16,679 --> 00:20:20,700
they may exploit what you say or do as

541
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,220
you're running the game

542
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:25,020
um so that is a big part of it but the

543
00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:26,120
good news is if you're brand new at

544
00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:29,220
running games

545
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:30,900
usually you've either played a lot and

546
00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:32,280
you're with your group that you play

547
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:35,640
frequently with and so they're

548
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:37,919
understanding or they're brand new as

549
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,919
well and they're less likely to try to

550
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:43,080
to punish you for lack of a better term

551
00:20:40,919 --> 00:20:45,720
um with you know whatever you have said

552
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:48,240
or done that that they can exploit so

553
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,280
but yeah I think being naive is a big

554
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,080
thing that that makes you just prone to

555
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,659
these common mistakes

556
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,380
and there's there's a clear pattern as

557
00:20:54,659 --> 00:20:58,020
well

558
00:20:55,380 --> 00:21:00,120
um as I'm talking with guests it's a lot

559
00:20:58,020 --> 00:21:01,620
of uh people saying they tried a

560
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:03,059
railroad at the beginning you know they

561
00:21:01,620 --> 00:21:06,799
thought their story was more interesting

562
00:21:03,059 --> 00:21:09,720
than a collaborative story or they

563
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:12,179
would limit players like not give them

564
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,740
the yes and option you know uh they

565
00:21:12,179 --> 00:21:16,080
would they would say no you can't do

566
00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:17,940
that you can't try this so a lot of

567
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,880
those again though are kind of like

568
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:22,799
early on mistakes uh and then as you

569
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:26,340
play more as you run games more your

570
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:28,679
view broadens your confidence in winging

571
00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:30,120
it and just flying off the you know off

572
00:21:28,679 --> 00:21:32,220
the cuff trying trying different things

573
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:35,580
and and making stuff up gets a lot

574
00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:38,039
better as well and uh I think that just

575
00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:40,320
experience you know there's no other um

576
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:43,080
substitute for it and more experience

577
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,299
equals less likely to make uh silly

578
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,380
mistakes like that yeah it's one of

579
00:21:45,299 --> 00:21:48,780
those it's one of those classic things

580
00:21:46,380 --> 00:21:49,919
of like you just got to do it but you

581
00:21:48,780 --> 00:21:52,080
just have to keep and you just have to

582
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:53,520
keep doing it and keep making those like

583
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,700
goofy mistakes

584
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:59,460
yeah so so early on I think it's just

585
00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:00,840
being naive uh and then as you get

586
00:21:59,460 --> 00:22:04,260
further down the road I think there's

587
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:06,000
just some people who well this is a

588
00:22:04,260 --> 00:22:08,340
common a common thing people talk about

589
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,799
is like I guess you're not at the right

590
00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:12,659
table like you you're not playing it at

591
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:14,100
the right game or or the players that

592
00:22:12,659 --> 00:22:16,140
you're running the game for don't care

593
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:18,000
about the game you want to run and so

594
00:22:16,140 --> 00:22:19,799
you need to kind of find the game that

595
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,299
you're gonna like or you need to find

596
00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:24,240
the table that's going to want to play

597
00:22:21,299 --> 00:22:27,179
the game you want to run and I get that

598
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:29,100
but also I think that a Hallmark of a

599
00:22:27,179 --> 00:22:32,340
good DM and good players is being

600
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:35,100
flexible and finding the fun in whatever

601
00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:36,780
you're doing now I mean there's some

602
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:38,340
caveats like if someone said I'm going

603
00:22:36,780 --> 00:22:40,020
to run a political game and it's going

604
00:22:38,340 --> 00:22:41,640
to be all role play and nothing else I'd

605
00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:43,980
be like I'm not really interested

606
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,360
there's tons of people out there on on

607
00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:47,039
the internet who'd say that they would

608
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:49,620
rather role play all day and that's

609
00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:52,500
great you know and so there is a certain

610
00:22:49,620 --> 00:22:55,020
element of that but I think that if

611
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:59,400
you're a really good role player a good

612
00:22:55,020 --> 00:23:01,320
DM or GM you're going to accommodate and

613
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,960
you're going to find ways to have fun

614
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,880
and do interesting things and that's

615
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,640
like honestly mostly just communication

616
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,679
with the people you're playing with

617
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,179
outside of game every week I text my

618
00:23:10,679 --> 00:23:13,799
players and say hey what did we like

619
00:23:12,179 --> 00:23:15,059
what do we not like you know we're I'm

620
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:16,860
thinking of doing this and this next

621
00:23:15,059 --> 00:23:18,419
what do you guys want to do next and

622
00:23:16,860 --> 00:23:19,799
just that constant communication means

623
00:23:18,419 --> 00:23:22,140
we're always doing stuff that everyone

624
00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:23,400
is is excited about yeah that's

625
00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:26,460
something I'd recommend to anybody

626
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,740
running games is even though it feels

627
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:30,240
weird to like tell them or like ask them

628
00:23:28,740 --> 00:23:32,280
their plans or tell them this is what's

629
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,080
going to happen next you don't have to

630
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,640
divulge too much like it's like a

631
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,900
trailer you know if you watch a trailer

632
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,460
for a movie and there's like little

633
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:39,900
Snippets here and there and you get

634
00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:41,340
excited about it but it doesn't tell you

635
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:42,240
all the weird twists and turns that are

636
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:45,600
going to happen in the character

637
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,820
development and whatever else and so I

638
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,500
try to give him a trailer and then see

639
00:23:47,820 --> 00:23:51,480
if that's interesting to them and if it

640
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:52,799
is then yeah we're gonna do that we're

641
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,720
gonna we're gonna keep exploring those

642
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:57,600
ideas and if not then what's something

643
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,760
else we could try yeah I think as a

644
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,980
maybe not preciousness is not the right

645
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,659
word but an expectation may be that when

646
00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:06,480
people start

647
00:24:03,659 --> 00:24:08,400
to play ttrpgs and then maybe ask their

648
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,159
friends and get their friends in that

649
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,200
because they're your friends that the

650
00:24:11,159 --> 00:24:16,820
game will just work magically work but

651
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:20,340
more often than not that is not the case

652
00:24:16,820 --> 00:24:22,320
for various reasons um I've started

653
00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:24,240
several I say several one or two games

654
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,220
with people I knew beforehand that I was

655
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,659
like yeah this isn't like we're not

656
00:24:26,220 --> 00:24:30,480
going to be on the same page and that's

657
00:24:27,659 --> 00:24:32,340
totally fine and that is what it is

658
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,779
isn't it no more to read into there that

659
00:24:32,340 --> 00:24:36,600
is just the end of that game and that's

660
00:24:33,779 --> 00:24:39,419
fine but I like having that flexibility

661
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,400
I think is probably one of the more or

662
00:24:39,419 --> 00:24:43,740
maybe even most important things to have

663
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,440
on both sides of the screen and that

664
00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:48,539
willingness to be like hey this is just

665
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,940
a slug Fest for the next four hours and

666
00:24:48,539 --> 00:24:54,840
that's I I've kind of signed up a little

667
00:24:50,940 --> 00:24:56,640
bit because I know or trust that next

668
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,260
week we're just gonna have a talk Fest

669
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,940
for the next four hours

670
00:24:58,260 --> 00:25:01,740
and then after that it'll be a mixed

671
00:24:59,940 --> 00:25:03,120
thing but the guys who are loving this

672
00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:04,860
slugfest I can trust them next week

673
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,360
they're not going to cry about having a

674
00:25:04,860 --> 00:25:07,500
talk Fest for four hours because they

675
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:08,820
know that I've had to sit through it

676
00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:11,880
this week and that's fine and everyone's

677
00:25:08,820 --> 00:25:15,539
adults and that's fine and we've we've

678
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:17,100
managed to build this agile game so that

679
00:25:15,539 --> 00:25:19,080
everybody can get enjoyment out of it I

680
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:22,620
think that's can be very hard to pull

681
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:27,120
off but in many ways is that kind of uh

682
00:25:22,620 --> 00:25:28,559
that ideal it's funny uh there have been

683
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,120
plenty of people on my show who who

684
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:32,760
mentioned like they've played with some

685
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:34,200
friends and then realized yeah you we

686
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,120
just want different things and that's

687
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,000
okay like we can be friends outside of d

688
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:41,340
d but you want to murder hobo and I want

689
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,919
to tell a serious High fantasy story and

690
00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:46,559
or vice versa and you know and that's

691
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:48,539
okay and honestly I think mature people

692
00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:50,880
will understand that you can still be

693
00:25:48,539 --> 00:25:53,880
friends without playing uh that specific

694
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,340
game together yeah yeah like one of my

695
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,600
players is very much more old school and

696
00:25:56,340 --> 00:25:59,460
into

697
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,559
like have you just had a gridded dungeon

698
00:25:59,460 --> 00:26:03,240
to explore with just Skelly bones to

699
00:26:01,559 --> 00:26:05,159
fight throughout it he'd okay happy

700
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:08,100
please I'll just do that for the next 20

701
00:26:05,159 --> 00:26:10,140
sessions so when I go into a chapter in

702
00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:13,260
my campaign and I'm like hey guys heads

703
00:26:10,140 --> 00:26:15,000
up this one's a goofy one so like the

704
00:26:13,260 --> 00:26:16,559
next four or five sessions some of you

705
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,059
might have to

706
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:20,039
grin and bear it for a little bit there

707
00:26:18,059 --> 00:26:21,299
will be combat but but then they know

708
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:23,880
that maybe in the next one there'll be a

709
00:26:21,299 --> 00:26:26,400
mega dungeon and then they'll be happy

710
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,140
uh so I do like to give them a little

711
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,880
heads up of like the aesthetic or the

712
00:26:28,140 --> 00:26:32,400
vibe of the next couple of sessions just

713
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,559
so they know going in totally totally

714
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,299
and and like you said if you were to

715
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:37,980
kind of mix in all of the elements that

716
00:26:36,299 --> 00:26:40,559
different players like you can still do

717
00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:42,840
it across sessions there could be two or

718
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:44,580
three in a row that don't highlight

719
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,440
specific things players want to do

720
00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:47,580
because they realize that there is

721
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,620
something they're going to want to do

722
00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:52,320
later on and and usually I think people

723
00:26:49,620 --> 00:26:54,960
are reasonable enough to go with that so

724
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,820
I can't I'm trying to think if I've made

725
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,039
any any more anecdotes about mistakes

726
00:26:56,820 --> 00:27:01,440
I've made the the play now gate is is

727
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:03,539
the cubic gate is the most recent yeah

728
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,559
it makes me smile every time but luckily

729
00:27:03,539 --> 00:27:06,059
now where they are they've lost all

730
00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:09,360
their magic items for the time being oh

731
00:27:06,059 --> 00:27:12,480
so that's that's resolve that takes a

732
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:14,039
brave DM to do that so that so I did

733
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,320
mention before the show and I've been

734
00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:19,200
streaming it recently but the current

735
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,720
chapter in is a very heavily inspired by

736
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,179
the likes of outer Wilds uh other video

737
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:27,240
games that feature a Time loop on a

738
00:27:24,179 --> 00:27:29,580
limit uh well just 20 minutes in in my

739
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,159
current game it's 30 minutes so that's

740
00:27:29,580 --> 00:27:34,440
that uh and also it's it's in the past

741
00:27:32,159 --> 00:27:36,480
because depending on the outcome of this

742
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,580
once they get to the end of the loop

743
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,600
when they resolve the issue it will

744
00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:42,659
impact

745
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:45,179
their future but a Time travel's

746
00:27:42,659 --> 00:27:48,299
involved B there's time Loops involved

747
00:27:45,179 --> 00:27:49,980
I had to simplify things and I think

748
00:27:48,299 --> 00:27:52,020
maybe I am talking from experience in

749
00:27:49,980 --> 00:27:53,640
this instance and I toyed the idea of

750
00:27:52,020 --> 00:27:55,679
maybe or maybe they can all keep one

751
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,840
spell maybe they could all keep one item

752
00:27:55,679 --> 00:28:00,600
and I just said no I'm gonna scorched

753
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:03,240
Earth it you're all occupying different

754
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,700
bodies you don't have access to like all

755
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:08,220
your de's are fifty thousand years is

756
00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:10,860
the future all your ways that you draw

757
00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:12,720
Power aren't really there yet you're

758
00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:14,880
just gonna rely on your wits alone for

759
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,520
this one chapter but it's it's a

760
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:20,340
constraint I've had to add because I

761
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,380
could not build a 20 minute recurring

762
00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:24,059
time loop with little bits and puzzles

763
00:28:22,380 --> 00:28:26,520
when they could just go I teleport to

764
00:28:24,059 --> 00:28:28,559
the last ring which I know is is player

765
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,500
agency and I know this this that and the

766
00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:33,840
other but for the feeling I wanted them

767
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:36,240
to have you can only get when you've

768
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,559
worked you've you've unlocked the puzzle

769
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,020
and you kind of have to do that with

770
00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:41,220
your brain

771
00:28:39,020 --> 00:28:44,220
honestly I think it's fun to give them

772
00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:46,919
things that are inaccessible until they

773
00:28:44,220 --> 00:28:48,899
kind of solve the puzzles or or figured

774
00:28:46,919 --> 00:28:51,600
out like areas that are just too

775
00:28:48,899 --> 00:28:54,720
dangerous for whatever reason because

776
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:57,000
that makes it feel I don't know I I just

777
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,039
like the idea of it uh are you familiar

778
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,960
with the dungeon dudes couple yes

779
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:02,700
Canadians on YouTube yeah so they've got

780
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,620
they've got a game they've they've been

781
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:07,320
running for a few years called The

782
00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:10,200
Dungeons of drakenheim and so I ripped

783
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,059
the the whole plot from it and threw it

784
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,640
into my game because it was so cool but

785
00:29:12,059 --> 00:29:16,740
this giant meteor crashes on a city and

786
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,960
there's like a bunch of weird stuff

787
00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:21,299
happening like it has this weird effect

788
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:24,539
and there's this Haze and in the haze

789
00:29:21,299 --> 00:29:27,419
it's kind of wild magic like slash

790
00:29:24,539 --> 00:29:29,760
poisonous this and so you can't go too

791
00:29:27,419 --> 00:29:31,200
far into it without getting sick or

792
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,880
losing a lot of Health points or your

793
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,620
magic stuff not working like it's

794
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,840
supposed to and that was fun because

795
00:29:34,620 --> 00:29:38,820
that it like they had to figure out how

796
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,740
to like Venture in further and further

797
00:29:38,820 --> 00:29:43,620
until they could solve the problem kind

798
00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:46,020
of kind of the same idea as as your your

799
00:29:43,620 --> 00:29:47,940
time Loop but just not on a loop but

800
00:29:46,020 --> 00:29:50,760
yeah you know magic stuff will stop stop

801
00:29:47,940 --> 00:29:54,840
working the the dreaded Compass wouldn't

802
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:57,000
work in the haze you know yeah so anyway

803
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,919
um yeah I like that idea I mean it

804
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,200
affected some more than others so I

805
00:29:58,919 --> 00:30:02,880
basically did the whole like wild shape

806
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,740
the same rules as wild shapes they kept

807
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,860
their intelligence wisdom and Charisma

808
00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:09,960
but strength decks and con just went to

809
00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:13,020
plus zero as they're occupying another

810
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:15,120
body 50 000 years in the past and ah

811
00:30:13,020 --> 00:30:18,779
some players that affected more than

812
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,100
other others but sorry and some some

813
00:30:18,779 --> 00:30:22,500
characters affected more than some

814
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:24,539
players were personally more effective I

815
00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:27,480
had to tell the Goliath Blood Hunter

816
00:30:24,539 --> 00:30:29,279
Barbarian that he didn't have as two

817
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,620
great swords he didn't have his plus

818
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:35,279
life to strength was like

819
00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:37,380
taking Old Yeller out the back that was

820
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:38,760
that was that was tough going and I'm

821
00:30:37,380 --> 00:30:41,159
like just dude you just gotta kind of

822
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,919
help where you can I'm sorry but for

823
00:30:41,159 --> 00:30:49,500
this one it is what it is you'll be

824
00:30:43,919 --> 00:30:52,020
decapitating soon it's fine let's just

825
00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:53,940
but it's it's it sounds bad on paper but

826
00:30:52,020 --> 00:30:55,320
uh what I'm it is coming from a good

827
00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:57,899
place because

828
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,519
that process of what outer Wilds gave me

829
00:30:57,899 --> 00:31:01,200
is an experience in my life I want to

830
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:03,179
recreate for other people and I want

831
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,279
them to be like wow we unlocked this

832
00:31:03,179 --> 00:31:06,419
thing we got to the end and it was all

833
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:08,460
these other little bits were working

834
00:31:06,419 --> 00:31:10,860
together and that's what I want them to

835
00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:12,600
achieve and if they can just kill people

836
00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:15,840
by looking at them and teleport and fly

837
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:18,360
around it's it's not gonna be the same

838
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,820
true true so perhaps yeah that was a way

839
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,740
of me learning that from what we talked

840
00:31:20,820 --> 00:31:24,240
about before with The Golden Compass

841
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:25,620
that I was like you know what there's

842
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,039
gonna there's gonna be something the

843
00:31:25,620 --> 00:31:31,019
only way I can really secure this

844
00:31:28,039 --> 00:31:32,700
self-contained this biome that's in a

845
00:31:31,019 --> 00:31:35,940
little self-contained environment was

846
00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:37,500
just like nope nothing wits only and the

847
00:31:35,940 --> 00:31:39,720
only way we can do wits only is if we

848
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:43,029
there's a gate here

849
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,029
[Music]

850
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:50,399
[Music]

851
00:31:48,260 --> 00:31:53,100
we talked a lot about

852
00:31:50,399 --> 00:31:55,740
um the dming side of things which is to

853
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:57,659
be expected but both of the halves we've

854
00:31:55,740 --> 00:31:59,760
talked about so far is in the what what

855
00:31:57,659 --> 00:32:01,799
are the mistakes and and the wire

856
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,360
they're made I think could potentially

857
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:06,899
be more interesting if you look at both

858
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:09,179
player and their characters so I'll let

859
00:32:06,899 --> 00:32:11,700
Adidas Choice as to which path you want

860
00:32:09,179 --> 00:32:13,260
to go down but it is a Quantum podcast

861
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:13,690
in that we're going to get to both in

862
00:32:13,260 --> 00:32:15,539
the end anyway

863
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:18,000
[Laughter]

864
00:32:15,539 --> 00:32:20,039
so player mistakes is in I'm sitting at

865
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,919
a table and I've done something stupid

866
00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:25,260
or characters mistakes in the universe

867
00:32:22,919 --> 00:32:27,179
which I think will be on paper similar

868
00:32:25,260 --> 00:32:29,519
but I think when we start talking about

869
00:32:27,179 --> 00:32:32,940
it it's going to get the nuances will

870
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:36,120
reveal themselves yeah uh

871
00:32:32,940 --> 00:32:39,179
uh I like to think that I am a good

872
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,080
player and that I go along with it and I

873
00:32:39,179 --> 00:32:42,179
I

874
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:46,140
am a good team player and give other

875
00:32:42,179 --> 00:32:49,559
people a moment to shine but I will

876
00:32:46,140 --> 00:32:51,600
admit that I do at times get a little

877
00:32:49,559 --> 00:32:54,720
bit of main character syndrome where I'm

878
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:57,480
like oh I'm gonna write this backstory

879
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,519
so that it's about me and I'm gonna you

880
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,700
know like this this moment is a time for

881
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:05,640
me to shine and uh so I I definitely do

882
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:08,340
that and I try not to and it consciously

883
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:12,419
you know I know I do it and so I try to

884
00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:14,580
avoid it because it can be annoying or

885
00:33:12,419 --> 00:33:17,059
or Worse to other players you're playing

886
00:33:14,580 --> 00:33:20,580
with um so that is a big one for me

887
00:33:17,059 --> 00:33:23,640
personally that I know happens I think

888
00:33:20,580 --> 00:33:24,980
another thing that can be tricky is

889
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,140
players

890
00:33:24,980 --> 00:33:30,419
who see another player doing something

891
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:33,179
cool and say oh I want to do that too

892
00:33:30,419 --> 00:33:36,000
and like figure out a way to get an item

893
00:33:33,179 --> 00:33:38,039
or or add some abilities or something to

894
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,279
do that same thing and then kind of like

895
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:42,740
take away that care characters moments

896
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:46,740
of shine

897
00:33:42,740 --> 00:33:49,500
so for instance if you had

898
00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:51,840
uh I don't know I guess just like for a

899
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:53,640
simple example you've got one character

900
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,559
who's kind of roguish who's good at

901
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,679
picking locks and then another character

902
00:33:55,559 --> 00:34:00,960
like finds a way to bypass locks like oh

903
00:33:58,679 --> 00:34:02,640
actually I'm gonna like just turn into a

904
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,260
bug as a druid and like go under every

905
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,080
single locked door so we don't need you

906
00:34:04,260 --> 00:34:08,639
to unlock doors anymore and that's kind

907
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,399
of sad and I think that that's something

908
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:14,700
that that players can do too is is uh

909
00:34:11,399 --> 00:34:18,179
instead of realizing hey I've got x y

910
00:34:14,700 --> 00:34:19,679
and Zed that I am good at and this

911
00:34:18,179 --> 00:34:21,839
player has a b and c that they are good

912
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:24,119
at and we should you know we should work

913
00:34:21,839 --> 00:34:25,500
together as a team and I should focus on

914
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:27,659
these things because it's kind of what

915
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:29,820
my players built to do or whatever but

916
00:34:27,659 --> 00:34:33,240
instead like see someone having fun and

917
00:34:29,820 --> 00:34:36,720
want to like also do that thing and then

918
00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:39,659
eventually uh one player might not feel

919
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:41,099
useless but like feel less helpful and

920
00:34:39,659 --> 00:34:42,720
and feel like they're getting less out

921
00:34:41,099 --> 00:34:44,339
of the game because they don't get to do

922
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:46,139
the thing that they built their

923
00:34:44,339 --> 00:34:49,079
character for anymore uh that's a big

924
00:34:46,139 --> 00:34:51,960
thing I've seen happen you know on on

925
00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:53,520
like streams and podcasts even like you

926
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,020
can kind of tell it's happening

927
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,180
um but yeah in games I've played in

928
00:34:55,020 --> 00:34:59,520
games I've observed yeah yeah I know

929
00:34:57,180 --> 00:35:01,740
that that is that self-aware is

930
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,980
self-awareness basically about the table

931
00:35:01,740 --> 00:35:07,020
being a active participant you know

932
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:09,060
collaborating and engaging but having

933
00:35:07,020 --> 00:35:10,980
the self-awareness to be like no I know

934
00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:12,240
that person sitting across the table for

935
00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:13,560
me this is this that's the thing they

936
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,000
get the enjoyment out of and I don't

937
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,980
want to take that away from them even

938
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,200
though I could trivialize it and maybe

939
00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:21,540
that would be what this adventuring

940
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,740
party would do but in reality you're not

941
00:35:21,540 --> 00:35:24,060
an adventuring party you're a bunch of

942
00:35:22,740 --> 00:35:26,760
friends sitting around the table right

943
00:35:24,060 --> 00:35:28,440
so you know you let them have their

944
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,020
moment and it is so like again that lock

945
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,839
picking thing can be so trivialized

946
00:35:31,020 --> 00:35:36,060
later on with either spells or by wild

947
00:35:33,839 --> 00:35:37,980
shaping is a classic one right miss you

948
00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:40,800
know missed form or whatever or just

949
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:42,119
turning the chest into water what you

950
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,460
know this the spell is just basically

951
00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:46,680
trivialize 80 of everything else in the

952
00:35:44,460 --> 00:35:50,280
game it's true you know like Arcanine

953
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:52,800
you can just see through as well as

954
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:55,680
relatively low level spell but knowing

955
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,380
to be like I'll just be quiet like being

956
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,839
quiet is probably an underrated which

957
00:35:58,380 --> 00:36:02,460
sounds counter-intuitive in a game about

958
00:36:00,839 --> 00:36:04,200
telling stories

959
00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:06,060
but when you have a certain number of

960
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,520
players around the table there is always

961
00:36:06,060 --> 00:36:10,260
opportunity to just be quiet and have

962
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,359
that self-awareness to be like I'm not

963
00:36:10,260 --> 00:36:14,700
this bit isn't for me and I will

964
00:36:12,359 --> 00:36:17,940
appreciate that and take a step back

965
00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:19,079
it's so again very hard to to know where

966
00:36:17,940 --> 00:36:21,660
that line is

967
00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:23,280
but it is a very good line once you've

968
00:36:21,660 --> 00:36:25,099
once you can find it out you're you're

969
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,380
laughing I think yeah

970
00:36:25,099 --> 00:36:30,180
I'm working toward it slowly as well uh

971
00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:32,099
I feel like I'm at the point where I'm

972
00:36:30,180 --> 00:36:34,380
good at in character prodding someone

973
00:36:32,099 --> 00:36:36,420
else like hey this is this is something

974
00:36:34,380 --> 00:36:38,040
you should try but you're right instead

975
00:36:36,420 --> 00:36:39,839
it'd be even better to just like sit

976
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,940
there and and not say anything and then

977
00:36:39,839 --> 00:36:45,359
just let them to speak up and have their

978
00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:48,300
moment so someday I'll get there

979
00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:49,619
yeah yeah is is a tricky one obviously

980
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:52,140
to tie it back into what we're talking

981
00:36:49,619 --> 00:36:53,820
about before again that is a DM I've

982
00:36:52,140 --> 00:36:56,579
been paranoid of that since day one is a

983
00:36:53,820 --> 00:36:59,400
DM to be like it's very easy to give a

984
00:36:56,579 --> 00:37:02,099
magical item to maybe not the Rogue that

985
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:05,579
can do unpicking or something like that

986
00:37:02,099 --> 00:37:07,079
and then you go oh [ __ ] because now the

987
00:37:05,579 --> 00:37:09,839
wizard can just

988
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:11,520
do the unlocking and you're like oh

989
00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:12,660
really shouldn't have given them that

990
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,160
magic item and then you're in that

991
00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:15,960
awkward position of do I take it away or

992
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,420
do I Nerf it or we'll do blah blah blah

993
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,380
blah so yeah that's not stepping on

994
00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:24,540
other people's toes is tricky here

995
00:37:21,380 --> 00:37:27,839
yeah it is it is like you said it's a

996
00:37:24,540 --> 00:37:30,060
lot of awareness a lot of um balancing

997
00:37:27,839 --> 00:37:31,619
and and uh

998
00:37:30,060 --> 00:37:34,680
making sure that everybody is having

999
00:37:31,619 --> 00:37:36,359
their fun so yeah it's definitely a

1000
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,540
mistake that I see though I think I

1001
00:37:36,359 --> 00:37:41,940
think I my easy way of getting around

1002
00:37:39,540 --> 00:37:44,579
that as I'm currently playing a wizard

1003
00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:46,740
in my main campaign level 11 now so

1004
00:37:44,579 --> 00:37:47,820
there are a lot of things that I'm

1005
00:37:46,740 --> 00:37:50,940
already

1006
00:37:47,820 --> 00:37:52,859
frustrating the DM enough I just didn't

1007
00:37:50,940 --> 00:37:54,660
come back with bits and Bobs and I'm

1008
00:37:52,859 --> 00:37:57,599
playing him cronomancy which I think is

1009
00:37:54,660 --> 00:38:00,540
from will it Mount right yes so turning

1010
00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:01,920
those crits off maybe and turning back

1011
00:38:00,540 --> 00:38:04,680
time and just teleporting people away

1012
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,020
and stuff is already I can see the veins

1013
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:10,200
in my DMs School head when I'm like

1014
00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:13,380
chronal shift no not today thank you is

1015
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:15,900
already getting him getting him annoyed

1016
00:38:13,380 --> 00:38:17,940
I've got to interject here I I played

1017
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:19,500
this same kind of wizard build last

1018
00:38:17,940 --> 00:38:21,780
summer for that wild Mount game we

1019
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:23,820
played oh yeah uh and my DM even home

1020
00:38:21,780 --> 00:38:25,560
brewed me an item kind of like Bardock

1021
00:38:23,820 --> 00:38:28,079
inspiration where I could add or just

1022
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,720
subtract a D6 from a roll three times a

1023
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:34,320
day so and then I took the lucky feat so

1024
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:37,020
I had lucky I had three portents and

1025
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,960
then I had the three uses of that D6 to

1026
00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:42,180
add or subtract and so if we had like

1027
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,640
one big boss battle I had nine different

1028
00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:47,400
ways to to ruin his day on any given

1029
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,780
roll and I mean he did it himself and he

1030
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,300
knew it was gonna be a high level game

1031
00:38:48,780 --> 00:38:54,119
and so the stuff we fought was like you

1032
00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:57,780
know cr20 cr25 even if we were just a

1033
00:38:54,119 --> 00:38:59,880
party of level 14s because we had this

1034
00:38:57,780 --> 00:39:02,420
the Firepower to to contend with those

1035
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:05,760
kinds of things but oh man it's so fun

1036
00:39:02,420 --> 00:39:08,099
the corona fancy stuff yeah I want to

1037
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,140
build a hardcore like divination wizard

1038
00:39:08,099 --> 00:39:14,000
with lucky and everything just to be

1039
00:39:10,140 --> 00:39:16,619
that Captain T guy capital G yeah just

1040
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,060
to really just live that life for just a

1041
00:39:16,619 --> 00:39:19,980
couple of sessions

1042
00:39:18,060 --> 00:39:22,079
so yeah even it like the way I get

1043
00:39:19,980 --> 00:39:26,220
around that as a wizard with chronomancy

1044
00:39:22,079 --> 00:39:28,680
stuff is to be not not standoffish just

1045
00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:29,880
not a very nice like I'm not I don't

1046
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,200
want to help everybody all the time and

1047
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,660
I don't want to be putting myself in

1048
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,880
danger so that's that's how he gets out

1049
00:39:33,660 --> 00:39:37,500
of being the person that's always trying

1050
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,420
to win the situation because he's like

1051
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:41,880
no man I don't want to do that I don't

1052
00:39:39,420 --> 00:39:43,200
want to go in the dirty dungeon or I

1053
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,180
don't want to do this in the other so

1054
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,220
I'll just stay at the back please you

1055
00:39:45,180 --> 00:39:49,740
guys can do the the manual labor at the

1056
00:39:47,220 --> 00:39:52,440
front like his his whole thing is like

1057
00:39:49,740 --> 00:39:53,640
arrogant I'm better than you so I didn't

1058
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,760
even need to do this kind of stuff

1059
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:59,700
that's my crutch my very easy way of

1060
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:02,760
getting out of trying to be in the light

1061
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:04,200
the whole time which which can work and

1062
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,300
uh yeah just trying to bury your nose in

1063
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,819
books which is easier for a wizard I

1064
00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:10,380
suppose than

1065
00:40:07,819 --> 00:40:12,119
perhaps other classes yeah that's

1066
00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:14,280
perfect

1067
00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:17,220
so that's we yeah I guess that that's

1068
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,359
more yeah player mistakes and I think

1069
00:40:17,220 --> 00:40:20,819
what we've talked about has probably

1070
00:40:18,359 --> 00:40:23,160
covered many you know that perito about

1071
00:40:20,819 --> 00:40:24,420
80 of the big the big ones which is to

1072
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,579
say like

1073
00:40:24,420 --> 00:40:28,440
being the center of attention and taking

1074
00:40:26,579 --> 00:40:30,420
the fun away from other players what

1075
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,819
about if we if we twist it a little bit

1076
00:40:30,420 --> 00:40:34,319
and think about like and again this is

1077
00:40:32,819 --> 00:40:35,640
crossing muddying the walls between

1078
00:40:34,319 --> 00:40:37,440
player and character which is an

1079
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,380
interesting discussion and of itself but

1080
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:42,900
in terms of like knowing the the world

1081
00:40:40,380 --> 00:40:45,000
or like solving puzzles is one example

1082
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:47,040
but like knowing what to do next and

1083
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,420
trying to piece together the law and the

1084
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,000
history because you're going to talk

1085
00:40:48,420 --> 00:40:53,460
about that player character's divide

1086
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:55,380
which is an aspect of we haven't played

1087
00:40:53,460 --> 00:40:57,960
for four weeks but it's been three

1088
00:40:55,380 --> 00:41:01,140
seconds for my characters there's a lot

1089
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,880
of stuff in there which can lead to ah

1090
00:41:01,140 --> 00:41:04,980
we'll just go through the red door and

1091
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,660
there's a DM I'll be like no four weeks

1092
00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:08,160
ago I told you the red door is the death

1093
00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:10,140
door and now you're just gonna walk

1094
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,420
straight through and make a horrible

1095
00:41:10,140 --> 00:41:16,099
mistake like

1096
00:41:12,420 --> 00:41:18,000
there's a lot in what I've just said

1097
00:41:16,099 --> 00:41:20,520
yeah I don't know if you've got any

1098
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,119
thoughts or experience on trying to

1099
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:26,280
mitigate going through the death door

1100
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:29,040
yeah uh a couple of things number one

1101
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,960
sounds like meta gaming to me is kind of

1102
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,880
part and parcel of what you're talking

1103
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,680
about just a little bit like knowing

1104
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,420
stuff beforehand or knowing too much and

1105
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,220
then using your personal knowledge that

1106
00:41:36,420 --> 00:41:40,619
your player or your character may not

1107
00:41:38,220 --> 00:41:42,240
have or vice versa but yeah the the

1108
00:41:40,619 --> 00:41:45,480
whole like it's been a while and

1109
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:49,440
therefore they have forgotten things to

1110
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:52,260
help mitigate that I usually either via

1111
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:54,720
text or or as we start playing like do a

1112
00:41:52,260 --> 00:41:56,819
session recap and try to make sure that

1113
00:41:54,720 --> 00:42:00,780
I hit specific points that they should

1114
00:41:56,819 --> 00:42:03,119
remember or would remember having or or

1115
00:42:00,780 --> 00:42:04,920
knowing that it has been only a second

1116
00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:06,119
since we like cut off and then we've

1117
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,700
started again

1118
00:42:06,119 --> 00:42:10,980
so that helps that part and you get a

1119
00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:12,960
lot of that oh oh yeah you know and

1120
00:42:10,980 --> 00:42:14,460
that's that's just kind of what I do

1121
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,859
because I I don't really feel like

1122
00:42:14,460 --> 00:42:18,540
playing gotcha yeah as much like it's

1123
00:42:16,859 --> 00:42:20,940
fun to trick your players here and there

1124
00:42:18,540 --> 00:42:23,520
or to throw them curveballs so to speak

1125
00:42:20,940 --> 00:42:26,640
that that they aren't expecting um but I

1126
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:28,800
don't intentionally forget or not remind

1127
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,960
them of stuff that they would remember

1128
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:34,200
just because I want to see them squirm

1129
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:36,359
later uh that's not really my style but

1130
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,700
uh yeah I guess that's that's what I do

1131
00:42:36,359 --> 00:42:40,619
usually is is like Recaps or or text

1132
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:42,839
threads to to make sure everybody's on

1133
00:42:40,619 --> 00:42:44,760
the same page as we're starting up yeah

1134
00:42:42,839 --> 00:42:46,500
anyway that's that's kind of what I do

1135
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,880
I've just got this image in my head now

1136
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:50,040
of being like by the way guys remember

1137
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,480
when we played last time the NPC told

1138
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,520
you that the red door is the death door

1139
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,780
anyway uh we're back in the game what

1140
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,180
does anyone want to do I want to go

1141
00:42:54,780 --> 00:42:58,380
through the red door okay that then

1142
00:42:57,180 --> 00:43:00,420
you'd be like yeah okay you guys are

1143
00:42:58,380 --> 00:43:03,000
gonna make a mistake if they want to do

1144
00:43:00,420 --> 00:43:04,500
it then you you let them right but they

1145
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,819
so long as they have all of the

1146
00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:09,440
information and make an informed

1147
00:43:05,819 --> 00:43:12,839
decision yeah you uh can hold them to it

1148
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:15,480
yep that's why I yeah I also do I've

1149
00:43:12,839 --> 00:43:17,640
been a bit bad actually I I usually do

1150
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,599
my recaps as soon as possible after the

1151
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,700
previous session because then it's

1152
00:43:18,599 --> 00:43:22,260
really fresh in my memory and yes today

1153
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:23,880
I was like oh crap I'm actually running

1154
00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:25,980
on Tuesday and haven't got around to it

1155
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,780
yet so that's what my players which kind

1156
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:29,339
of defeats the purpose a little bit but

1157
00:43:27,780 --> 00:43:31,079
yeah one guy was like oh yes here's

1158
00:43:29,339 --> 00:43:34,319
here's what we did in these the

1159
00:43:31,079 --> 00:43:37,440
iterations yeah sorry I actually like

1160
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:39,359
letting my players do Recaps because it

1161
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,339
reminds me what they think is important

1162
00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:42,900
and what they have forgotten because I

1163
00:43:41,339 --> 00:43:45,060
can remind them of the stuff that they

1164
00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:46,980
should remember but also if they've

1165
00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:49,260
focused in on a few things that I didn't

1166
00:43:46,980 --> 00:43:51,720
think were as big a deal then I make

1167
00:43:49,260 --> 00:43:53,640
those things a big deal I guess and that

1168
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:55,079
that kind of helps me like focus on the

1169
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,420
stuff they found more interesting or fun

1170
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:59,280
but I mean obviously to each their own

1171
00:43:57,420 --> 00:44:00,780
yeah there's pros and cons to both

1172
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,280
methods and I have tried both methods

1173
00:44:00,780 --> 00:44:04,020
before and this is the one that's

1174
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,460
happened it happened to be settled on

1175
00:44:04,020 --> 00:44:07,200
for this game I think most of the guys

1176
00:44:05,460 --> 00:44:09,839
are happy with it because most of them

1177
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,300
don't take any notes and sometimes

1178
00:44:09,839 --> 00:44:14,040
they're there just to have a night of

1179
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:16,140
fun and we'll forget about it as soon as

1180
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,640
the Discord is closed and that's fine I

1181
00:44:16,140 --> 00:44:19,619
don't begrudge them for that but they

1182
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,960
need at least somebody who knows what

1183
00:44:19,619 --> 00:44:23,099
the hell is happening

1184
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,300
that's true it may as well be me in this

1185
00:44:23,099 --> 00:44:25,800
instance

1186
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:28,260
um

1187
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,359
so that's that's fine and that does that

1188
00:44:28,260 --> 00:44:31,920
does save them it's actually quite fun

1189
00:44:30,359 --> 00:44:33,780
in a way I know we're digressing a

1190
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,240
little bit but from at one of the pros

1191
00:44:33,780 --> 00:44:38,880
of the DM or at least download doing it

1192
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:42,000
is it is quite fun for me to Pepper in

1193
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,220
like the red door as the death door they

1194
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,660
told you that anyway then you went on to

1195
00:44:44,220 --> 00:44:48,599
do this and do that because then I've

1196
00:44:45,660 --> 00:44:50,339
got you know hands up you know so if you

1197
00:44:48,599 --> 00:44:52,079
do it then that's on you because I've

1198
00:44:50,339 --> 00:44:53,760
told you but then also throw in other

1199
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:55,560
bits that are maybe red not red herrings

1200
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,900
but like other tidbits of information

1201
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,180
that aren't the red door is a death door

1202
00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:02,819
but like oh and they also told you that

1203
00:45:00,180 --> 00:45:05,760
on Tuesdays is the day they bake the

1204
00:45:02,819 --> 00:45:07,859
bread and then it's just to fill it out

1205
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,060
a little bit and to kind of if there is

1206
00:45:07,859 --> 00:45:10,200
something in there that was a big piece

1207
00:45:09,060 --> 00:45:11,880
of information but they might not know

1208
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,680
it yet you can kind of

1209
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,560
pepper it in with so you don't you don't

1210
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,180
only say Tuesday Mornings the bread day

1211
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,400
wink

1212
00:45:18,180 --> 00:45:22,920
you might also want to say Thursdays The

1213
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,859
Flower Day and then it's they've got a

1214
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:28,740
50 50. so it's kind of fun to weave a

1215
00:45:25,859 --> 00:45:31,140
all the informations in there in a way

1216
00:45:28,740 --> 00:45:34,440
that makes it interesting to hear

1217
00:45:31,140 --> 00:45:35,760
while not giving the game away for what

1218
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,859
they should have picked up on last week

1219
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,500
is an interesting little puzzle for me

1220
00:45:37,859 --> 00:45:42,020
to unpick usually 10 minutes before the

1221
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:44,040
episode starts

1222
00:45:42,020 --> 00:45:47,280
because I'm an idiot and leave it too

1223
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:49,440
late yeah it is so as far as like player

1224
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,660
meta gaming and stuff then uh have you

1225
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,700
had a lot of issues with it kind of

1226
00:45:51,660 --> 00:45:56,579
talking about player mistakes again

1227
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:58,440
um or are your players pretty pretty

1228
00:45:56,579 --> 00:46:00,960
good about it uh what have you kind of

1229
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,380
experienced slash have you met a game as

1230
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,380
a player

1231
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,579
you pride yourself or like to think

1232
00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:12,060
you're a good player and in the same way

1233
00:46:08,579 --> 00:46:15,599
I also like think of myself as being

1234
00:46:12,060 --> 00:46:17,099
like no super I try and ironically I

1235
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:18,839
probably swing the pendulum too far the

1236
00:46:17,099 --> 00:46:21,540
other way because I'm so far trying to

1237
00:46:18,839 --> 00:46:23,460
remove myself from any knowledge that I

1238
00:46:21,540 --> 00:46:25,380
might end up making more stupider

1239
00:46:23,460 --> 00:46:26,880
decision as my character would would

1240
00:46:25,380 --> 00:46:29,099
maybe have made if I'd had no

1241
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:32,700
information whatsoever yeah I'm just

1242
00:46:29,099 --> 00:46:34,440
very hyper aware that I know a lot

1243
00:46:32,700 --> 00:46:37,079
versus the guy that's sitting next to me

1244
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,839
so I have to kind of counter you know

1245
00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:41,339
adjust accordingly as it goes on but

1246
00:46:39,839 --> 00:46:42,359
then in a way that makes when they do

1247
00:46:41,339 --> 00:46:44,339
bring in a creature that I'm not

1248
00:46:42,359 --> 00:46:45,960
familiar with even better because I'm

1249
00:46:44,339 --> 00:46:47,579
like hey well this is a genuinely new

1250
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,359
experience and I generally don't have

1251
00:46:47,579 --> 00:46:50,819
any

1252
00:46:48,359 --> 00:46:53,400
I'm completely operating ad-lib here

1253
00:46:50,819 --> 00:46:55,560
that's good personally no I don't tend

1254
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:58,260
to I I think it's quite easy for me to

1255
00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,839
embody my my character or make a role

1256
00:46:58,260 --> 00:47:02,339
and then face that myth from experience

1257
00:47:00,839 --> 00:47:03,599
or from being on the receiving end of it

1258
00:47:02,339 --> 00:47:07,079
as a DM

1259
00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:09,359
as dming most of the guys at the six

1260
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:11,460
players four were completely brand

1261
00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:13,440
spanking new so they wouldn't even know

1262
00:47:11,460 --> 00:47:15,119
what the term meta gaming is

1263
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,440
which is to say they did it a lot

1264
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:18,480
because they didn't even know it was a

1265
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,040
thing that maybe you shouldn't do maybe

1266
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,020
you should do maybe it's this bad thing

1267
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,300
we shouldn't be doing it was just

1268
00:47:22,020 --> 00:47:26,220
I think we do and then I have to be like

1269
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:27,599
hold on a minute guys would you would

1270
00:47:26,220 --> 00:47:31,140
your character know that and they're

1271
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:33,000
like no no and I'm like okay well

1272
00:47:31,140 --> 00:47:33,839
maybe not in this instance so what would

1273
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,040
you do if you didn't have that

1274
00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:37,200
information there was there was a little

1275
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,780
bit of that for the first you know 10 to

1276
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:42,599
15 sessions they won't mind me saying as

1277
00:47:39,780 --> 00:47:45,660
they really got to grips with what a

1278
00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:49,260
ttrpg is and the implications of trying

1279
00:47:45,660 --> 00:47:51,300
to roleplay is somebody who doesn't have

1280
00:47:49,260 --> 00:47:52,920
all the information or in some cases has

1281
00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:55,079
more information which is actually the

1282
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,300
trickier question to answer sometimes is

1283
00:47:55,079 --> 00:48:00,000
but what would my character know about

1284
00:47:57,300 --> 00:48:01,559
this yeah weird alien subject that my

1285
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,440
brain can't even really

1286
00:48:01,559 --> 00:48:06,480
equate to real life yeah one of my

1287
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:09,660
players uh his he's like from the

1288
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:11,339
feywild and so constantly it's like well

1289
00:48:09,660 --> 00:48:13,440
what would I have encountered this stuff

1290
00:48:11,339 --> 00:48:15,599
like in my interplanar Wars experience

1291
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:18,119
and I'm like I don't know you know would

1292
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:21,059
you have it it's it's hard to it's hard

1293
00:48:18,119 --> 00:48:23,760
to decide sometimes yeah but it becomes

1294
00:48:21,059 --> 00:48:26,099
like a Ganondorf link tennis match of

1295
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,780
like but would you know well maybe but

1296
00:48:26,099 --> 00:48:28,920
how would you have known well maybe if I

1297
00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:31,260
did this yeah but you wouldn't really

1298
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,880
have done that and then it's like how

1299
00:48:31,260 --> 00:48:34,920
deep down that rabbit oh do you want to

1300
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,480
go as you've got just four people in the

1301
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,579
audience now just watching the two of

1302
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,800
you trying to work out whether that

1303
00:48:38,579 --> 00:48:42,359
knowledge is there or not and like

1304
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,640
looking at their watches going this is

1305
00:48:42,359 --> 00:48:47,160
game time what are we doing yeah exactly

1306
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:49,200
exactly yeah I do I do have another

1307
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,720
inventive player who's always trying to

1308
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,460
do weird and wacky new things and now

1309
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:55,619
funnily enough is playing in a ladder in

1310
00:48:53,460 --> 00:48:57,660
so again from the Fey worlds it was all

1311
00:48:55,619 --> 00:48:59,579
very much same thing yeah is this what

1312
00:48:57,660 --> 00:49:02,160
I've experienced this or time moves

1313
00:48:59,579 --> 00:49:05,040
differently so do I perceive this way

1314
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:07,859
and I kind of Welcome those questions

1315
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,640
because it tests me as a DM and makes me

1316
00:49:07,859 --> 00:49:10,559
think

1317
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,119
in new ways that I would never have

1318
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:15,480
thought of before

1319
00:49:12,119 --> 00:49:18,300
but I've never fortunately never been a

1320
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:20,400
victim of a malicious meta gaming that

1321
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:23,280
is to say meta gaming with intent to

1322
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,260
deceive that's could be a lawyer

1323
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,359
um

1324
00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:30,900
a rules lawyer so now it's only ever

1325
00:49:27,359 --> 00:49:32,460
been accidental like oh we know what

1326
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:33,780
downloads trying to do here winky face

1327
00:49:32,460 --> 00:49:35,339
and I've gone yeah

1328
00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:37,040
but can you meet me halfway and pretend

1329
00:49:35,339 --> 00:49:40,319
you don't

1330
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,700
yeah yeah luckily most of my players are

1331
00:49:40,319 --> 00:49:44,700
brand new as well

1332
00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:47,040
um so it hasn't been too big of an issue

1333
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:49,200
but I've definitely like again I've seen

1334
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,940
it in streams and podcasts and and stuff

1335
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,940
that I've consumed like

1336
00:49:50,940 --> 00:49:55,740
that seems like a little metagamy to me

1337
00:49:53,940 --> 00:50:00,180
um so it's just funny to see what people

1338
00:49:55,740 --> 00:50:01,260
try to get away with yeah I I I'm very

1339
00:50:00,180 --> 00:50:02,520
glad I'm talking to you about this

1340
00:50:01,260 --> 00:50:04,800
because there is

1341
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,420
when you do podcasts like we do Apple

1342
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,640
cars or play a lot

1343
00:50:06,420 --> 00:50:10,559
some point there is that level of

1344
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,180
experience where you can spot those kind

1345
00:50:10,559 --> 00:50:13,619
of things and in games I've played with

1346
00:50:12,180 --> 00:50:16,800
I've been looked across the table and

1347
00:50:13,619 --> 00:50:18,540
been like that's that's probably pushing

1348
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,520
it a little bit or like would you really

1349
00:50:18,540 --> 00:50:21,720
be doing that and it's not my place to

1350
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,700
say and that's one of the things when

1351
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:26,400
I'm a player I don't care so DM's job oh

1352
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:27,480
this is my night off like the DM could

1353
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,240
do with that

1354
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:33,119
um but you do gain that awareness of

1355
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:35,160
spotting those signs sometimes of of

1356
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:36,780
like there's just this is that so this

1357
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,579
is the way the way it's pronounced the

1358
00:50:36,780 --> 00:50:42,240
words that they've said there's just a

1359
00:50:38,579 --> 00:50:44,520
little something there uh but they're

1360
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:46,920
built into that but no no fortune

1361
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:50,339
fortunately not I'm trying to think what

1362
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,900
I really wanted to get at here was why

1363
00:50:50,339 --> 00:50:54,599
the players and all their characters

1364
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:56,400
will will make mistakes and it may be

1365
00:50:54,599 --> 00:50:59,460
again what my partner said and it made

1366
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:01,980
me think like is it is it a lack of

1367
00:50:59,460 --> 00:51:04,800
knowledge is it a lack of understanding

1368
00:51:01,980 --> 00:51:06,540
of the constraints of the game World an

1369
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,040
easy one to talk about is like Puzzles

1370
00:51:06,540 --> 00:51:10,559
and riddles

1371
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:13,319
I think we can all empathize with DMS

1372
00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:14,940
being like Oh well the players just why

1373
00:51:13,319 --> 00:51:15,900
can't they resolve this riddle for a

1374
00:51:14,940 --> 00:51:17,940
child

1375
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:20,400
is it because I've not you know the DM's

1376
00:51:17,940 --> 00:51:22,319
not giving them enough information or I

1377
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,760
think those those kind of discussions

1378
00:51:22,319 --> 00:51:25,619
are quite interesting and can hold quite

1379
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,880
a lot of value not that I have any you

1380
00:51:25,619 --> 00:51:28,740
know like some golden bullets some

1381
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,420
silver golden bullets silver bullets ad

1382
00:51:28,740 --> 00:51:33,500
there but I don't know if you'll take

1383
00:51:30,420 --> 00:51:36,000
you any thoughts or anything my puzzles

1384
00:51:33,500 --> 00:51:37,680
and riddles and that kind of thing

1385
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:42,300
usually when players get pretty quickly

1386
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:44,040
uh so I think I use Easy slash trophy

1387
00:51:42,300 --> 00:51:45,720
enough ones that that they kind of can

1388
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,460
figure it out pretty quickly you know

1389
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:49,200
the most complicated puzzles I've had

1390
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:50,880
are like a few levers on a wall kind of

1391
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,800
thing or whatever you know so it's not

1392
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,480
it's not like crazy hard I'm not

1393
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,040
expecting them to do a Sudoku or

1394
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,680
something to like get through to the

1395
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:00,900
next room you know so uh yeah I haven't

1396
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:03,660
had a ton of issues with that and

1397
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:06,059
honestly to me it's okay with me if

1398
00:52:03,660 --> 00:52:08,640
players like met a game or use outside

1399
00:52:06,059 --> 00:52:11,400
knowledge to answer the riddles or the

1400
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,900
the the puzzles because like that's kind

1401
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,520
of part of the fun for me is like giving

1402
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:16,440
them a puzzle and then let them like

1403
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,940
draw down a piece of paper like they're

1404
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,559
all talking together about ideas about

1405
00:52:17,940 --> 00:52:20,880
how it's gonna work kind of thing and

1406
00:52:19,559 --> 00:52:22,619
that's like that's just fine to me

1407
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:25,319
that's kind of the thing I'm going for

1408
00:52:22,619 --> 00:52:27,059
anyway instead of like uh uh you know

1409
00:52:25,319 --> 00:52:28,920
you've you've got nine intelligence so

1410
00:52:27,059 --> 00:52:30,240
you would not know that and I don't I

1411
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,400
don't care at that point it's just kind

1412
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:34,319
of more of the fun thing so

1413
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,780
I think there's definitely a right and a

1414
00:52:34,319 --> 00:52:39,420
wrong way to do quiz uh I keep saying

1415
00:52:36,780 --> 00:52:41,339
quizzes like a right and a wrong way to

1416
00:52:39,420 --> 00:52:43,980
do puzzles and riddles and traps and

1417
00:52:41,339 --> 00:52:46,500
that kind of thing but I think it can

1418
00:52:43,980 --> 00:52:48,660
kind of vary between groups

1419
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:51,180
and that's I mean I'm in the same boat

1420
00:52:48,660 --> 00:52:53,280
as you that's why I'm I've stripped all

1421
00:52:51,180 --> 00:52:55,500
their items and stuff for this few

1422
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:58,079
chapters because it's just I want you

1423
00:52:55,500 --> 00:53:00,300
guys to talk about it and despite having

1424
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:03,839
no spells no class features no abilities

1425
00:53:00,300 --> 00:53:05,579
right no magical items I have this is on

1426
00:53:03,839 --> 00:53:07,859
I'm not there's no lip service to the

1427
00:53:05,579 --> 00:53:10,920
show or whatever they have been

1428
00:53:07,859 --> 00:53:12,960
more engaged between you know when we've

1429
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,640
taken a 15-minute break between you know

1430
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,079
in the session they'll be talking about

1431
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,780
it the whole time

1432
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:20,280
after the show they're like oh maybe we

1433
00:53:18,780 --> 00:53:21,900
try that maybe that that person comes in

1434
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,819
at 15 minutes past maybe he has

1435
00:53:21,900 --> 00:53:25,800
something to do with that they have

1436
00:53:23,819 --> 00:53:27,839
never that level of Engagement before

1437
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,880
and that's what that's what I want that

1438
00:53:27,839 --> 00:53:32,520
is I'm like oh perfect I'm this is the

1439
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,740
dream I am now exceptionally happy that

1440
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,540
you guys spent rather than going to the

1441
00:53:34,740 --> 00:53:37,920
toilet and getting drinks and stretching

1442
00:53:36,540 --> 00:53:40,800
your legs you've just spent it talking

1443
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:44,040
about what to do when we come back that

1444
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:46,319
is I'm I've won I can I can seem happy

1445
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:48,240
tonight yeah very similar to like the

1446
00:53:46,319 --> 00:53:50,220
after the session where like they're all

1447
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:52,079
like oh this that the other and then

1448
00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:53,640
they're all talking excitedly for

1449
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:55,619
however many minutes after there's no

1450
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:57,359
better feeling than than ending a

1451
00:53:55,619 --> 00:54:00,119
session and then having them having so

1452
00:53:57,359 --> 00:54:02,099
many ideas to share and and theories to

1453
00:54:00,119 --> 00:54:03,599
swap and and you know stuff like that

1454
00:54:02,099 --> 00:54:05,880
that's that's my favorite is just

1455
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:08,940
sitting there and basking in the in

1456
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:10,380
excitement of the game so yeah yeah and

1457
00:54:08,940 --> 00:54:11,819
that's what that in the same vein like

1458
00:54:10,380 --> 00:54:13,980
that's with the puzzles as you said

1459
00:54:11,819 --> 00:54:16,200
that's exactly the same I want you guys

1460
00:54:13,980 --> 00:54:17,819
to talk about it because that's you're

1461
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,579
the line between you and your character

1462
00:54:17,819 --> 00:54:22,440
is becoming this blurred folk and you're

1463
00:54:20,579 --> 00:54:23,880
merging into one and that's that's the

1464
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,460
Sweet Spot there that's the way we want

1465
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,760
to be here there's more that's often as

1466
00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:28,760
we can

1467
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,920
is there anything that you wanted to

1468
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,619
talk about that we haven't quite hit yet

1469
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:36,720
I guess it would just be

1470
00:54:34,619 --> 00:54:37,500
an admonition to all the listeners out

1471
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:40,319
there

1472
00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:42,660
um I've talked to some of the biggest

1473
00:54:40,319 --> 00:54:44,940
most popular DMS out there not not the

1474
00:54:42,660 --> 00:54:46,859
most or the second most I'm working on

1475
00:54:44,940 --> 00:54:48,420
it but I've talked to a lot of a lot of

1476
00:54:46,859 --> 00:54:52,559
great DMS out there

1477
00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:55,020
and all of them have made mistakes and

1478
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:57,180
all of them easily own up to them and

1479
00:54:55,020 --> 00:54:59,400
say that they they still make them and

1480
00:54:57,180 --> 00:55:02,700
that they're learning from them and so

1481
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:06,119
it is okay that you are making mistakes

1482
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:08,940
you know don't beat yourself up don't

1483
00:55:06,119 --> 00:55:10,619
feel like you can't DM because you're

1484
00:55:08,940 --> 00:55:13,020
going to make mistakes as well if you've

1485
00:55:10,619 --> 00:55:14,760
thought about it and you want to try but

1486
00:55:13,020 --> 00:55:16,740
it's whole you know your fear of of

1487
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:19,020
screwing up is holding you back like

1488
00:55:16,740 --> 00:55:21,420
that's kind of the point you know you've

1489
00:55:19,020 --> 00:55:24,540
gotta you've gotta stub your toe and

1490
00:55:21,420 --> 00:55:27,119
you've got to stumble and trip and and

1491
00:55:24,540 --> 00:55:29,400
that kind of thing to learn how to walk

1492
00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:30,780
and then run same thing with dming

1493
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,420
you're gonna make mistakes you're gonna

1494
00:55:30,780 --> 00:55:36,059
screw up and that's totally fine and

1495
00:55:33,420 --> 00:55:37,920
everybody from the very best DM on to

1496
00:55:36,059 --> 00:55:40,740
the the person who just ran their first

1497
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:43,319
session last night has made mistakes and

1498
00:55:40,740 --> 00:55:44,880
is learning from them so it happens and

1499
00:55:43,319 --> 00:55:46,920
that's that's part of the game and

1500
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:49,440
that's I don't know that's part of the

1501
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:51,059
fun for me too is like oh man I made

1502
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,400
this compass that they can use to find

1503
00:55:51,059 --> 00:55:55,619
anything like it's just fun and and it's

1504
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:58,200
a good lesson to learn that I'll never

1505
00:55:55,619 --> 00:56:00,119
give them an item like that again and I

1506
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:02,579
move on you know and we keep playing and

1507
00:56:00,119 --> 00:56:04,140
we keep having fun so uh yeah that

1508
00:56:02,579 --> 00:56:06,000
that's what I have to say about mistakes

1509
00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:09,240
is everyone makes them from the very

1510
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:10,200
best DM on down and everyone who makes

1511
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:12,059
them

1512
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:14,280
realizes what they can learn from them

1513
00:56:12,059 --> 00:56:17,520
and and uh you know becomes a better DM

1514
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:19,980
because of it yeah no I I couldn't agree

1515
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,540
more and it maybe I'm doing myself and

1516
00:56:19,980 --> 00:56:23,040
my game at this service and this is

1517
00:56:21,540 --> 00:56:25,500
probably gonna make it sound worse than

1518
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,299
it is but I often feel like every

1519
00:56:25,500 --> 00:56:29,460
chapter or Arc that I go through it

1520
00:56:27,299 --> 00:56:30,420
sometimes feels like a beta test now the

1521
00:56:29,460 --> 00:56:32,339
players probably didn't they probably

1522
00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:33,420
see it they're probably happy but I

1523
00:56:32,339 --> 00:56:36,059
always come out the other side being

1524
00:56:33,420 --> 00:56:38,339
like if I was to run that again here's

1525
00:56:36,059 --> 00:56:40,619
the things that I would make better yeah

1526
00:56:38,339 --> 00:56:42,660
that's after playing with the same guys

1527
00:56:40,619 --> 00:56:44,400
for two and a half years of stuff I've

1528
00:56:42,660 --> 00:56:46,380
had two and a half years to plan I still

1529
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,000
come out the other side and go wow I

1530
00:56:46,380 --> 00:56:49,500
could have done x y and z a lot better

1531
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,839
and if I were to run that again that's

1532
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:53,099
what I would do and luckily part of the

1533
00:56:51,839 --> 00:56:54,720
experience comes from the players not

1534
00:56:53,099 --> 00:56:56,579
realizing that excellent Z could have

1535
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:59,579
been a lot better and I think that's the

1536
00:56:56,579 --> 00:57:02,339
best I can certainly ever hoped for

1537
00:56:59,579 --> 00:57:04,559
yeah but you're absolutely right and and

1538
00:57:02,339 --> 00:57:07,680
that's exactly how I feel too after

1539
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:09,059
every session I could give you a list of

1540
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,079
stuff where I'm like I should have done

1541
00:57:09,059 --> 00:57:12,480
this should have done that I should have

1542
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:14,700
done that should have not done this and

1543
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,660
it just happens in it's part of learning

1544
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:16,640
and that's how you're going to get

1545
00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:19,740
better

1546
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:21,599
excellent well uh thank you so much is

1547
00:57:19,740 --> 00:57:23,940
there anything that you would like to

1548
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:26,400
promote yeah so I mentioned at the very

1549
00:57:23,940 --> 00:57:29,940
beginning of the show I have my own

1550
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:32,400
podcast called how not to DM similar uh

1551
00:57:29,940 --> 00:57:34,260
to danilo's show here um it features

1552
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:37,319
usually one guest or maybe a couple

1553
00:57:34,260 --> 00:57:39,299
guests it's a bit more structured um I

1554
00:57:37,319 --> 00:57:41,520
have interview questions so I ask people

1555
00:57:39,299 --> 00:57:43,619
about how they got into the game their

1556
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,880
mistakes and stuff um their best moments

1557
00:57:43,619 --> 00:57:46,680
behind the screen as well like really

1558
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,240
good moments that they remember that you

1559
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,099
can also learn from right I think you

1560
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,480
should learn from mistakes and you

1561
00:57:50,099 --> 00:57:52,559
should learn from the really cool stuff

1562
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,720
that has happened and how you can

1563
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:56,760
replicate that and then I asked them

1564
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,799
about their cool projects so I've talked

1565
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,460
to people who are streamers who are

1566
00:57:58,799 --> 00:58:04,380
podcasters who to design games

1567
00:58:01,460 --> 00:58:06,900
who do all sorts of different stuff

1568
00:58:04,380 --> 00:58:09,660
across the ttrpg space so all different

1569
00:58:06,900 --> 00:58:11,640
kinds of parts of the Hobby and yeah

1570
00:58:09,660 --> 00:58:14,160
it's been a lot of fun and each episode

1571
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,599
you know is is unique even though I ask

1572
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,040
similar questions you know everyone's

1573
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:20,520
got different experiences that you can

1574
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:22,859
learn from and uh yeah my season two is

1575
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:24,960
probably winding down to an end or has

1576
00:58:22,859 --> 00:58:27,900
just finished probably by the time this

1577
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,760
is coming out so you've got season one

1578
00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:31,799
and two to go binge one is a bit rough

1579
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,720
just because I hadn't gotten a good mic

1580
00:58:31,799 --> 00:58:36,180
or anything like that yet I stumbled

1581
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:37,559
into podcasting and but uh yeah there's

1582
00:58:36,180 --> 00:58:38,940
tons of good interviews out there tons

1583
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:40,740
of really interesting stuff people have

1584
00:58:38,940 --> 00:58:42,660
chatted about and uh I think there's

1585
00:58:40,740 --> 00:58:45,240
something there for everybody so you can

1586
00:58:42,660 --> 00:58:47,280
go listen to it in any order and you can

1587
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:49,140
find that in the episode notes that

1588
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,760
Daniel is going to put in here so

1589
00:58:49,140 --> 00:58:53,280
they'll be linked to my show to my link

1590
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:56,760
tree you can go find me on Twitter and

1591
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:59,280
chat with me there or or join uh the t4c

1592
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:01,680
Discord where you can chat with me about

1593
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,180
my show specifically as well so yeah uh

1594
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,760
if you have any questions about what we

1595
00:59:03,180 --> 00:59:07,020
chatted about today hit Danilo and I up

1596
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,359
you know we're happy to talk about

1597
00:59:07,020 --> 00:59:11,700
mistakes and ideas and ways you might

1598
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:13,859
try to avoid them in the future but uh

1599
00:59:11,700 --> 00:59:15,240
yeah uh love to have you listen to my

1600
00:59:13,859 --> 00:59:17,460
show as well and tell me what you think

1601
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,079
absolutely and I think uh one thing I'm

1602
00:59:17,460 --> 00:59:20,700
probably most one topic I'm most

1603
00:59:19,079 --> 00:59:23,460
qualified to talk about is mistakes now

1604
00:59:20,700 --> 00:59:26,220
I'm thinking about it so uh

1605
00:59:23,460 --> 00:59:27,660
we are human I know it's like you talk

1606
00:59:26,220 --> 00:59:30,299
you know your first season is a bit

1607
00:59:27,660 --> 00:59:32,540
rough you talk as if like the first 50

1608
00:59:30,299 --> 00:59:36,380
episodes of thinking quickly weren't

1609
00:59:32,540 --> 00:59:38,700
done on the back of a coaster like

1610
00:59:36,380 --> 00:59:39,960
there's two kinds of podcasters out

1611
00:59:38,700 --> 00:59:41,880
there they're the ones who are like

1612
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:44,099
they're the ones who who planned their

1613
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,440
first season for like a year in advance

1614
00:59:44,099 --> 00:59:48,240
and then have it all down to a science

1615
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,880
by the time they start and then there's

1616
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:53,099
the other group which we fall into we're

1617
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:56,460
like I guess I'm doing a podcast now and

1618
00:59:53,099 --> 00:59:58,680
here's this 10 month from Amazon and you

1619
00:59:56,460 --> 01:00:00,660
know I'm recording on Discord and

1620
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:03,480
half of it's garbled then the other half

1621
01:00:00,660 --> 01:00:06,180
you can barely understand and then we

1622
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,740
move on from there so uh it definitely

1623
01:00:06,180 --> 01:00:10,200
sounds better now and your show does too

1624
01:00:07,740 --> 01:00:11,579
thank you yeah we will make our mistakes

1625
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:14,099
don't we to put a nice little book

1626
01:00:11,579 --> 01:00:15,359
effect on that episode there well all

1627
01:00:14,099 --> 01:00:16,859
that's left to say is thank you ever so

1628
01:00:15,359 --> 01:00:19,079
much Derek for joining us today that was

1629
01:00:16,859 --> 01:00:20,460
uh yeah a lot of fun a lot of fun thanks

1630
01:00:19,079 --> 01:00:23,400
so much for having me Daniela I know

1631
01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:25,020
we've we've been back and forth for six

1632
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,059
eight months now about when we're gonna

1633
01:00:25,020 --> 01:00:28,920
do this so it feels good to finally sit

1634
01:00:27,059 --> 01:00:31,140
down and to chat and I've had a ton of

1635
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:34,020
fun absolutely well thank you so much um

1636
01:00:31,140 --> 01:00:35,940
me too and I'm glad we yeah life has

1637
01:00:34,020 --> 01:00:39,059
allowed us finally to have this

1638
01:00:35,940 --> 01:00:40,980
discussion thank you everybody for

1639
01:00:39,059 --> 01:00:42,780
listening at home as usual everything

1640
01:00:40,980 --> 01:00:44,700
will be in the episode description so I

1641
01:00:42,780 --> 01:00:47,640
would please encourage you to go and

1642
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:50,520
check out all of Derek's stuff otherwise

1643
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:52,619
thank you all for listening and good

1644
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:55,460
night and now it's time for the patreon

1645
01:00:52,619 --> 01:00:59,220
shout outs thank you to Robert Hartley

1646
01:00:55,460 --> 01:01:02,400
DM for Viva La dirt league and writer on

1647
01:00:59,220 --> 01:01:04,319
the DND the logic web series I would

1648
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,780
encourage everybody to check him out at

1649
01:01:04,319 --> 01:01:09,599
Robert Hartley GM on Twitter and twitch

1650
01:01:06,780 --> 01:01:11,880
thank you to optional rule a two-time

1651
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:14,119
guest of the show and a very insightful

1652
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:17,720
and knowledgeable source of information

1653
01:01:14,119 --> 01:01:20,940
please check them out at

1654
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:23,040
www.optionalrule.com huge huge huge

1655
01:01:20,940 --> 01:01:25,559
thank you to a great friend of the show

1656
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:28,680
Matthew Perkins who's out there making

1657
01:01:25,559 --> 01:01:30,839
hilarious and educational Dungeons and

1658
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:32,819
Dragons content please go and check out

1659
01:01:30,839 --> 01:01:35,099
his stuff at Matthew perkins.net where

1660
01:01:32,819 --> 01:01:36,720
you can find links to all of his socials

1661
01:01:35,099 --> 01:01:38,099
and all of his content including his own

1662
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,380
patreon which I would very much

1663
01:01:38,099 --> 01:01:43,500
encourage you to check out

1664
01:01:40,380 --> 01:01:45,599
thank you to matchstreet at mp street88

1665
01:01:43,500 --> 01:01:46,980
on Twitter for supporting the show if

1666
01:01:45,599 --> 01:01:49,619
you need support running your personal

1667
01:01:46,980 --> 01:01:52,319
or business schedule head to virtualtime

1668
01:01:49,619 --> 01:01:54,059
hustle.com or on Instagram to make that

1669
01:01:52,319 --> 01:01:56,400
difference between should do and done

1670
01:01:54,059 --> 01:01:57,900
boss it better with support from cat who

1671
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,640
will help you get back that essential

1672
01:01:57,900 --> 01:02:01,140
time you've been searching for

1673
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,119
if you would like to support what we do

1674
01:02:01,140 --> 01:02:05,520
and get four shout outs a month head

1675
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:07,319
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1676
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:11,240
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1677
01:02:07,319 --> 01:02:11,240
kofi.com thinking critically

1678
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:33,349
[Music]