Mashups

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welcome thinkers to season three episode

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eight today's topic is mashups

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by jeff grayner

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from the tome show thank you ever so

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much for joining us today jeff can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself

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sure yeah i'm happy to be here uh so my

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name is jeff greiner i am the founder

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i don't know producer whatever you want

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to call it for the tome show uh

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i've been podcasting as the tome show

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for

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15-ish years now it is a d d focused

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podcast we do

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news reviews interviews uh um

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book clubs whatever right uh we've got

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some actual play uh going on in there as

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well

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uh but what whatever it is it's d d

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focused um and it it basically started

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in 2006 because it was a podcast that i

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wanted to have to exist and nobody was

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doing dnd podcast and so uh i i so far

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as i know i got to it first i don't know

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that there was this there is a dnd

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podcast around today

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um that was around back then as well

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that has been going continuously that

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whole time so

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so that's me i've and i've been um i'm a

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42 year old man in the on the eastern

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time zone of the united states who's

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been playing d d since i was

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eight

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uh started with second edition um back

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in the 80s um so yeah so i've been

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playing d d a lot and i don't know

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probably the last

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20 years of that has been primarily as a

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dungeon master

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amazing um i can only hope that my

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podcast has the longevity of yours

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that's mostly stubbornness yeah

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so in which case then i probably will do

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knowing me so yeah

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excellent well thank you so much um the

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topic of today's discussion is mashups

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so what does that term mean to you in

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the d d framework

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yeah so so the idea of match ups in in

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rpgs or whatever right is is take two

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things that don't necessarily feel like

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they are inherently

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combined and combine them anyway and see

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what kind of weird awesomeness comes out

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of it

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have you got any um

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for the for the sake of the listeners

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obviously obviously i know what you're

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talking about but let's take a look at

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this have you got any like really

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poignant examples like really crystal

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clear examples of like a classic

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this topic came to me because i have

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i've had this situation where

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um since 5th edition came out they've

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had a relatively slow release schedule

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right they put out you know a couple of

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adventures a year

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uh and maybe some other books along the

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way but those first few years even it

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was just

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two books a year and that was all they

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did for several years and that was

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actually about right that was about

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perfect for me uh but even then like

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a single campaign with one of those

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adventures might take me a year year and

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a half to run and so

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my solution to that was let's just take

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a bunch of adventures

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a bunch of these like you know one to to

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what are they they tend to go 12 or 1 to

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15 campaigns and let's

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make them into one story right and so i

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ran my first experience with this was i

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ran um

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out of the abyss princess of the

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apocalypse and then i pulled up an old

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second edition module called the rod of

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seven parts

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uh and they all happened simultaneously

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on top of each other and i ran that as

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my campaign i mashed up all these

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different adventures uh in in actually a

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setting that is also a mashup um you

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know because another thing that you can

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mash up in games is

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um you can mash up sort of the genres

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and the themes of the game and so the

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setting that i

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ran that for was i i called it

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post-apocalyptic fantasy earth okay

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right so it is simultaneously kind of

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post-apocalyptic but also high fantasy

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but you know there's

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large you know fantasy cities built into

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the the the rusting halls of old

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battleships or whatever yeah

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uh and so um

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so i mashed up

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the setting

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in my mashed up campaign of of

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of adventures as well okay okay there's

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quite a few

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things there then that that yeah that

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have

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sprinkled throughout my notes but let's

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start with the big one then in terms of

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combining published modules and now i'm

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very much padawan in this situation

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having never run a single or even played

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i think in a single published module in

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terms of like a a what c published

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module i might have played a little um

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thing from dm skilled or something for a

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one shot but um

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so how

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how trivial is that to do than to

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to take two separate books published 12

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months apart however long and smooshing

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them together in a way that is still

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enjoyable entertainment for everybody at

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the table

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sure so it depends on on both how you

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want to do it

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and

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and at least for me the hard part is i

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don't know

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the beginnings of doing this work for me

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is the narrative

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does you know i look at princes of the

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apocalypse i looked at

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out of the abyss and i'm like well

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there's kind of this shared narrative of

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some sort of

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powerful

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force for chaos

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wanting to be unleashed upon the world

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and do horrible things

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and then i looked at the rod of seven

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parts and i don't even know why i was

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looking at the rod of seven parts that

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old second edition module but it has a

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similar

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story right so in out of the abyss

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the where that's the demon lords have

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been uh unleashed upon the underdark and

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they're rampaging throughout and it's

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all sort of this plot by loth okay

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uh in princess of the apocalypse the the

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ancient uh evil thera's done who has

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been around since you know first edition

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i think d

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originally i think greyhawk

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is trying to escape his prison like

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thera's done is sort of that classic

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like horrible uh horrible creature so

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horrible that even the good and evil

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gods aligned together to imprison them

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yeah because they could not destroy him

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right

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uh and so that's thera's done

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uh and he's uh you know trying to

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through his cult is trying to um bring

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one of his elemental prince's evil

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elemental princes back to the world and

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then the evil elemental princes are

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powerful enough to maybe release him

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from his prison

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and then the rod of seven parts is

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appropriately titled there are these

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seven parts of a rod scattered around

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and when you find one of them it starts

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leading you to the next one and the next

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one and the next one

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and this rod is of uh there are there

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are other agents seeking the parts of

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this rod that work for an entity known

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as mishka the wolf spider uh mishka the

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wolf spider is the exact same sort of

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character as there has done it is a

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horrible evil that the gods had to team

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up to to imprison but couldn't kill sort

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of character uh and the only thing that

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could possibly destroy mishka is the the

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rod of seven parts when it's combined

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right and so i looked at that and i said

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well two of those like why not just say

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that mishka and there is under the same

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character and with a different name in

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different cultures right

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done um the rada seven parts that

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original inventor is actually written in

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such a way that it's not supposed to be

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a continuous campaign

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so much as

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a series of events in a campaign that

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are sprinkled throughout other

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adventures

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so that's okay yeah you're supposed to

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fit it into other things right

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so that's easy enough and then i decided

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well

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and clearly lolth is doing what she's

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doing in the underdark

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as part of an arrangement that she's

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made with misca

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slash there's done yes right

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create some chaos distract all the

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heroes dealing with all these demon

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lords running around so that mishka can

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run around and collect

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the rod pieces which is also what it

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needs not only is it the one thing that

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can just possibly destroy mishka but

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it's also um the one thing that mishka

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needs in order to escape its prison

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right yes the classic double-edged sword

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kind of thing yeah right yeah and so i

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looked at i look you know i kind of i'm

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like i want to

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do two things at once because i don't

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have time to do

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one of these adventures in

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quickly enough you know uh and i kind of

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want to experience all these stories and

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so i i mashed them up together

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and and i started with

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i started with

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well so so i guess the the question you

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were asking was about how how much work

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is it how hard is it so in that case um

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it took a little bit more work once i

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realized there was a shared narrative

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that i could

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so i could weave the stories together in

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a way that makes made sense you still

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have to be willing to

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to chuck parts of the story that exists

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in the in the published adventures right

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because

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clearly like the timelines don't work

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you know because all of them are are

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pretty much like oh my gosh horrible

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things are happening we have to deal

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with it right now yeah but you can't

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deal with all of the horrible things

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simultaneously um you know there are out

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of seven parts is built to do that but

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none of the other adventures are yeah

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you have to be willing to to tweak the

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timeline on a little bit

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completely eliminate certain chunks of

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the story of one story in order to fit

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into it into the other

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and then the trick really is

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figuring out how you're going to

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how you're going to transition back and

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forth from one to the other right what

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what are the you know in when the the

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pcs are in the middle of dealing with

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this one storyline

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what is going to pull them out of that

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storyline to go deal with this other

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thing and then come and then go back and

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forth so you're kind you're not just

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00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,720
doing one after another but you're

282
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,440
you're sprinkling them all throughout

283
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,360
right um so that way of doing it create

284
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,000
is a little bit more work

285
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,200
um in terms of

286
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,200
i don't know i just spent a lot of my

287
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,839
time thinking about it right on my

288
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,279
commutes to work or or in the shower or

289
00:10:15,839 --> 00:10:18,800
whatever right doing the dishes i'm

290
00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:20,320
thinking about okay how do i do this oh

291
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,680
and i could i could connect that and

292
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,920
then i could run over there and i

293
00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:26,959
actually at one point was

294
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:29,360
also sprinkling in and tying it into um

295
00:10:26,959 --> 00:10:30,720
the green ardeen classic adventure

296
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,000
freeport adventures i don't know if

297
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,279
you're familiar with those it doesn't

298
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,560
ring a bell no

299
00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:39,200
so um freeport is this sort of pirate

300
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:41,200
city on an island uh and it's you know

301
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,200
so it's it's it's a

302
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,839
bit of a hive of scum and villainy if

303
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:48,240
you will yeah but it also has this this

304
00:10:45,839 --> 00:10:50,160
cthulloid sort of thing going on with

305
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,160
this horrible destroyer that's trying to

306
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,880
to break free and and all that kind of

307
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,720
stuff so that kind of fit really well

308
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,640
but when i when presenting all of the

309
00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,160
things going on to the players that one

310
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,800
was the thing that they're like that's a

311
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,320
long ways away yeah and

312
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,839
we'll maybe deal with that later and

313
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,000
they just never quite got around to it

314
00:11:05,839 --> 00:11:09,920
so that part of the the campaign just

315
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,440
sort of you know sometimes the players

316
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,279
tell you what they want to do

317
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,560
and that wasn't what they wanted to do

318
00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:19,279
yeah so we didn't do that bart

319
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,959
i i did actually run um at one point

320
00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:24,320
when i needed a little bit of a break i

321
00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:26,640
uh from the normal campaign i did run a

322
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,640
a one shot of like the first part of

323
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,079
that freeport adventure with different

324
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,519
characters just to be like hey that

325
00:11:30,079 --> 00:11:33,600
thing you never dealt with here here's

326
00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:35,040
what was going on you know and who and

327
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,640
who took care of it and these other

328
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:40,079
characters of yours that took care of it

329
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:42,079
yeah um and so that that is one

330
00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:44,000
way that i did that i mashed up

331
00:11:42,079 --> 00:11:45,839
adventures and it was uh it was a good

332
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,279
amount of work

333
00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:49,360
in terms of contemplating how they all

334
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:51,839
fit together and what have you but once

335
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,639
i don't know the way my brain works once

336
00:11:51,839 --> 00:11:55,839
i

337
00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:57,839
start to see the connections in my head

338
00:11:55,839 --> 00:11:59,519
then that becomes you know my my classic

339
00:11:57,839 --> 00:12:01,839
head cannon and that's the only thing

340
00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:02,560
that makes sense anymore right yes

341
00:12:01,839 --> 00:12:04,000
so

342
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,720
uh then it's just a matter of figuring

343
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,720
out

344
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,959
how to weave the story together and have

345
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,480
the players doing interesting things

346
00:12:08,959 --> 00:12:12,639
the other way i've done it is is

347
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,600
actually much easier my current campaign

348
00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:18,959
is also a mashup of dragon heist water

349
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:21,760
deep and cursive straw wow okay right

350
00:12:18,959 --> 00:12:24,160
but cursive straw is an adventure that

351
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:26,480
it really starts at level three it goes

352
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,240
three to twelve and dragon heist water

353
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,440
deep is one to five

354
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,120
and so

355
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,959
i just made the beginning parts of

356
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,480
cursive straw a little bit harder and

357
00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:36,959
you know so i ran dragon heist water

358
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:40,160
deep uh and then

359
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:41,839
transitioned that into cursive straw

360
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,519
and i threw in a little bit of tails of

361
00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:44,560
the old margrave from kobold press as

362
00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:47,440
well just

363
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:49,519
to transition some things um

364
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,279
but that worked out that's a much easier

365
00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:53,040
match up to do because

366
00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:55,680
you're just focusing on one adventure at

367
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,200
a time now i still find

368
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,639
when doing that

369
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,120
i get a lot of

370
00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:02,720
benefit i guess out of

371
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,480
thinking about what i'm going to do

372
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,160
ahead of time so i knew i was going to

373
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:10,160
run cursive straw after dragon heist

374
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:12,959
water deep so i layered in a bunch of

375
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,560
cursive straw to sort of clues

376
00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:17,360
in those first five chapters for

377
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:19,600
shadowing yeah absolutely so so you know

378
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,200
every now and then the mist would roll

379
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:24,240
through and something would disappear

380
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,959
from the city of waterdeep uh or um

381
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,639
there was uh an old fortune teller who

382
00:13:26,959 --> 00:13:30,240
who took up residence in troll skull

383
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:32,160
alley down just down the street from

384
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,399
where the the characters you know get

385
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:37,519
their their own

386
00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:40,079
tavern or whatever who was actually a uh

387
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:42,560
um oh what are they called

388
00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:44,399
the the travelers the based on the roma

389
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,480
people what are they called

390
00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:46,480
uh

391
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,320
so there's this this old vestani woman

392
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:54,959
uh who was doing fortune telling in a in

393
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,040
a little shack down the street from from

394
00:13:54,959 --> 00:13:58,880
troll skull manor uh that they'd run

395
00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,560
into every now and then or would come

396
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,920
out and you know creepily tell them

397
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:04,079
their fortune whether they want it or

398
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:07,199
not and it turns out that she is the

399
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:09,519
sister of madame eva from the vastani in

400
00:14:07,199 --> 00:14:12,079
in in borovia and she actually gave them

401
00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:14,240
a map of borovia but you know three

402
00:14:12,079 --> 00:14:15,279
levels before they they

403
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,639
went there

404
00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:17,760
they already had a map of it like i

405
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:19,120
don't know what this place is this

406
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,399
doesn't match any place in the world

407
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,639
that we know of i don't know what this

408
00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:24,800
lady's talking about right so i i

409
00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:26,560
sprinkled in all these these hints in

410
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,160
the middle of dragon heist water deep

411
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,600
that there was this other strange thing

412
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,279
going on happening here on the horizon

413
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,920
one thing i've learned from doing the

414
00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:37,360
show is that as i said i am not super

415
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,199
familiar with the running published

416
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,920
modules i know them by name and

417
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:44,720
infamy in some cases sure but a lot of

418
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,079
my guests have have done them and

419
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,920
having to

420
00:14:46,079 --> 00:14:51,360
edit them i guess is the best way to put

421
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:53,120
it is is a common a common theme i don't

422
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,040
know it's very rarely have i ever spoken

423
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,199
to someone that was just like yeah i

424
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,800
just ran that publish module verbatim

425
00:14:57,199 --> 00:15:01,680
line for line i never i didn't have to

426
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,199
change anything now on one yeah and

427
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,519
i don't know we talked about this a lot

428
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:07,920
on my show as well uh

429
00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,199
and there's a lot of work

430
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,959
that people

431
00:15:09,199 --> 00:15:13,360
feel like they need to do but it's

432
00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:16,000
interesting because

433
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,600
for some people the amount of work is it

434
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,399
shouldn't be there

435
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,240
and for other people like but that's how

436
00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:24,560
d d

437
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,800
is has and all you know and probably

438
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,800
should work right

439
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,120
you know because you should be

440
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,759
customizing the modules to make them you

441
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,120
know really be fun for you and for your

442
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,519
players and connect it to their

443
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,880
characters and and what have you right

444
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:41,120
so

445
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,360
for the most part

446
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,600
i would recommend changing modules any

447
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,160
module regardless of how good or

448
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,839
thorough it is just to make it

449
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,560
cut you know customize it and and make

450
00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:54,880
it more yours yeah i don't know

451
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,279
i didn't do much customization of dragon

452
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,040
ice water deep other than

453
00:15:57,279 --> 00:16:01,680
throwing in some extra things for them

454
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,279
to do uh and connecting it to the to the

455
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,279
raven loft piece because i knew that's

456
00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:07,519
where they were going uh and in the near

457
00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:09,199
future i'm gonna be running um the wild

458
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:11,519
beyond the witch light and i don't know

459
00:16:09,199 --> 00:16:14,160
that i i'm gonna i'm gonna add to but i

460
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:16,480
don't really feel like it needs

461
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,240
changes you know i feel like descent

462
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,399
into a furnace is one of my favorites

463
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,800
right now but

464
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:25,279
in order to drive their story i feel

465
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,399
like i really wanted to have a stronger

466
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:27,680
opening

467
00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:29,440
yeah you know and i and i've heard that

468
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,519
a lot from other people that and i think

469
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,199
it can run as is if you have cooperative

470
00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:34,399
players who are like okay fine we're

471
00:16:33,199 --> 00:16:36,320
going to go along with the story that

472
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:37,680
you want to tell all right yeah which we

473
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,519
all know is often

474
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,800
not always the case right but i feel

475
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:42,399
like it it

476
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,480
for some groups it needs some more help

477
00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:45,680
like it has an opening you know oh no or

478
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,800
something horrible has happened to el

479
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,959
torell

480
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,800
uh but if you're but the the story kind

481
00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:52,079
of assumes you're not from el torell and

482
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,079
you're from baldur's gate which is a

483
00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:56,160
city that you know doesn't always get

484
00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:57,279
along very well with el torell so you

485
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,600
could very easily have a bunch of

486
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:01,920
players who are like all right cool

487
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,920
bye

488
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,000
so

489
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,559
um i think there are some some good um

490
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,319
dm's guild adventures that i like to

491
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:12,880
tack on to things right and i don't

492
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:15,600
consider that usually like taking

493
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:18,160
other adventures and and including them

494
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:21,360
or smaller pieces or whatever and

495
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:24,000
including them in a campaign i don't

496
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:26,400
know that i consider that mashing up uh

497
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,760
i guess some people might like uh that

498
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,120
mike mike i told was telling about my

499
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,240
current campaign where we did dragon

500
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:34,080
heist and then um cursive strawd but

501
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,640
that really only gets you through like

502
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:40,080
the second act of the story um and then

503
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,760
the third act is more or less home brew

504
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,679
yeah because ultimately like curse of

505
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,240
straw is a really good adventure

506
00:17:43,679 --> 00:17:47,760
but it ends with and then we went back

507
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,080
home and everything was back to the way

508
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,960
it was and that's not real satisfying

509
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,640
you know

510
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,720
you didn't really accomplish anything

511
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,520
other than just surviving which i guess

512
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,880
is classic for a horror story right yeah

513
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,960
but i didn't start it off as just

514
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,400
cursive straw i started it off with with

515
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,720
dragon heist water deep and this high

516
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,080
fantasy and so you know you you want to

517
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,799
feel like you accomplished something big

518
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,240
so my whole third act is kind of home

519
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:12,240
brew

520
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,720
in terms of i i played with the whole

521
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:18,480
curser straw thing and um

522
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,840
the dark powers that created the domains

523
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,000
they

524
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,440
wanted straw to be defeated so borovia

525
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,880
would come back and they could be they

526
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,320
could be released from their prison and

527
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,320
now the dark powers are running around

528
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,760
in my world and choosing champions all

529
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,720
over the place and now they're trying to

530
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,400
put the

531
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,240
the lightning back in the bottom yeah

532
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,080
classic like you've killed something

533
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,400
that was keeping back something worse

534
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,960
like a greater evil yeah yeah yeah oh no

535
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:44,320
what have we done right so so that whole

536
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:46,480
act is uh well i i think of my campaign

537
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,480
in three acts so the the whole third act

538
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,200
is all homebrew

539
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,000
but

540
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,080
within that home brew i'm like oh well

541
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,160
one of these no champions of the dark

542
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,559
powers you need to hunt down happens to

543
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,559
be a sararack so let's go run

544
00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:02,080
um the the tomb from tomb of

545
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,679
annihilation we skipped the entire rest

546
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,240
of the adventure we just ran the dungeon

547
00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:08,559
right uh and then i pulled a couple of

548
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,160
the adventures from um candle keep

549
00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:12,559
mysteries and that were higher level

550
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,480
than fit well and we ran those and right

551
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:16,640
now they're in yithran which is the sort

552
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,240
of final location in rhyme of the frost

553
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,240
maiden um

554
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,520
those are not things i really considered

555
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,760
mashing up because i'm not really

556
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,160
playing with those stories yeah those

557
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:28,400
adventures much at all pick and mix yeah

558
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,080
but but i'm i'm pulling

559
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,559
you know basically pulling locations and

560
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:35,200
dungeons and whatever out and

561
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:36,799
tying it into my existing story yeah i

562
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,320
think one one thing that you mentioned

563
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:39,919
earlier on that i wanted to talk about

564
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,960
is you you said i think descent into a

565
00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:42,799
vernish you said it's one of your

566
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,080
favorite adventures and that got me

567
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:46,880
thinking like

568
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,640
about replayability for players rather

569
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,919
than that you know dm's can run and run

570
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,880
and run it and it can be different every

571
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:52,880
time because the players are different

572
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,320
but in terms of like i know i know it'll

573
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,320
be different with a different group of

574
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,559
players but broadly they're gonna know

575
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,760
what the big story beats are and i was

576
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:01,520
thinking

577
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,159
mashing up published adventures is

578
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,480
probably a very good solution to that to

579
00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:08,480
mix to remix so you're just you know

580
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,720
you're ostensibly still doing

581
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,400
say descent into a furnace but

582
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,919
as you you've done yourself in the past

583
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,600
you mash it up in some way you mix it up

584
00:20:13,919 --> 00:20:17,600
with something else and suddenly even

585
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,600
the even the veteran player is like oh

586
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,280
we're not doing that we're doing some

587
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,200
other interesting thing and then

588
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,640
suddenly they're back you know their

589
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,000
interest is peaked again so that's

590
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,559
probably a good way

591
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,240
to abuse those published modules in a

592
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,760
way to kind of keep things fresh and

593
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,120
unique without the

594
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,880
potentially heavyweight baggage of

595
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:37,360
completely homebrewing something which

596
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:40,080
is right well i'm doing it

597
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:42,240
that feels right to me

598
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,919
i haven't used it that way but but that

599
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,240
feels like that would be the case right

600
00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:48,320
now now a lot of the adventures have uh

601
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,559
published adventures like any good story

602
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,760
right has has surprise moments and

603
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:54,080
whatever

604
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,000
if you wanted to use it to make it fresh

605
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,840
again and give it some replayability i

606
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,159
think that would work but you might want

607
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,520
to rethink those twists or those

608
00:21:00,159 --> 00:21:03,280
surprises

609
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,200
and make the surprise something that

610
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,559
connects to the news story you're

611
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,679
mashing it up with so that there is

612
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:09,679
still like

613
00:21:07,679 --> 00:21:12,400
some some shock or some surprise to it

614
00:21:09,679 --> 00:21:14,559
you know i've i've even half considered

615
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,960
um i don't think i'm gonna do it but

616
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:19,039
i've have considered mashing up descent

617
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,840
into avernus with the wild beyond the

618
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:25,919
witch light okay um not to be

619
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:28,400
overly spoilery for folks but there is a

620
00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:30,559
a surprising connection at the end of

621
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:33,360
which light that um

622
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:35,280
could make it work i think pretty well

623
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,720
um the the only

624
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,120
thing that's going to stop me from doing

625
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,720
it i think is the fact that i actually

626
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:42,320
bought the

627
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,400
the platinum edition from beetle and

628
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,400
grim of both of those adventures yeah

629
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,320
and so i want to get i want to use every

630
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,280
bit of it because those are expensive so

631
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,960
i want to use every every morsel yeah

632
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,320
absolutely those are the only only

633
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,360
beetle and grim products i bought are

634
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,720
those two

635
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:58,159
and they happen to be two that i think

636
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,200
would match up pretty well but i don't

637
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:00,960
want to

638
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,200
i don't want to miss out on all of the

639
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,000
early stuff from descent into avernus by

640
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:08,400
using which light instead yeah yeah yeah

641
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,320
no i love i love the

642
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,080
one thing we i surprisingly haven't

643
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,080
talked about on the show despite talking

644
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,760
about everything from you know

645
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,320
homebrew and designing encounters and

646
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,080
npcs and monsters and publishing and

647
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,679
making your own adventures and all that

648
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,039
kind of stuff one thing i think is

649
00:22:21,679 --> 00:22:25,919
unique is

650
00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:26,880
is this exercise is this thought process

651
00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:28,720
of

652
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,919
mashing up published adventures we've

653
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,480
talked about running them before we've

654
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:34,320
talked about customizing them but this

655
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,440
way of thinking about them in such a way

656
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,200
that they can

657
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,159
become greater than the whole of you

658
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,320
know the whole is greater than the sum

659
00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:42,960
of its parts kind of thing is is quite a

660
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,880
unique exercise to do

661
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,799
i i mean i i certainly wouldn't be any

662
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,840
good at it if i were to do

663
00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:51,360
if i were to start today um but that is

664
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,799
you know i've never that thought process

665
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:55,200
those neurons this particular set of

666
00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:57,600
neurons haven't fired in my head yet

667
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,120
and it's i'm like yeah that's that's

668
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,120
that's a like

669
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:03,280
a unique challenge in the dm right

670
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:04,400
sphere well i mean it's not

671
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,760
it's not

672
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,440
i don't know i

673
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,240
like i said i started back in the second

674
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,240
edition days right and

675
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,640
it wasn't until

676
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,720
even part way through third edition that

677
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,240
like published adventures were campaigns

678
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,080
like that's not a thing

679
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,400
that's really a thing that paizo started

680
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,320
doing when they took over um

681
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,440
dungeon and dragon magazine way back in

682
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,440
the day before they split off and

683
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,640
started pathfinder they were and they

684
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,320
then they started publishing these

685
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,720
adventure pads right

686
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,559
that's really the first time

687
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,080
the dnd companies that the companies

688
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:38,000
that publish for dnd really started

689
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,320
thinking about campaigns publishing

690
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,080
whole campaigns that this the norm for

691
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,120
so long was just like well here's an

692
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,520
adventure

693
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:48,000
you know and it might cover

694
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:50,640
three to five sessions or whatever

695
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,720
and so it was the standard operating

696
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,640
procedure of like hey i've got this

697
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,760
adventure i've got that adventure let's

698
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,360
let's just

699
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,880
figure out a way to make them all happen

700
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,320
in the one campaign and just sort of

701
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,000
keep going and keep playing for as long

702
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,080
as we have fun adventures to play right

703
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,520
yeah uh you know and i mean there was a

704
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,039
point in you know i remember back in my

705
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,159
high school days there was a point where

706
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:11,840
it was like hey um you know i've i had

707
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:13,279
my group of players we were all friends

708
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,799
we hung out together and we all had you

709
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:16,000
know dozens of characters that we've

710
00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:17,039
played through different adventures or

711
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,240
whatever and so every now and then

712
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:20,320
somebody would be like hey i got an

713
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,320
adventure i want to run uh find a

714
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,120
character that you've got that's 12th to

715
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,480
14th level you know or or this is a

716
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:28,480
first level one then we all start new

717
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,039
characters or whatever it is right uh

718
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,400
and so we all have this library uh

719
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:33,679
and it was just whoever wanted to run a

720
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,120
new adventure

721
00:24:33,679 --> 00:24:37,360
tell us what level it should be and then

722
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:39,520
and then piece it together right but so

723
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:42,080
i guess the the point being like mashing

724
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,000
up these adventures is not

725
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,600
it's a logical progression from well we

726
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,120
used to just take all these

727
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,559
smaller adventures

728
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:49,840
and kind of string them together and

729
00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:51,279
make them work

730
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,799
now they're not publishing smaller

731
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,559
adventures very often or when they do us

732
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:56,799
these anthologies like candle keep

733
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:58,159
histories or salt marsh or whatever

734
00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:00,480
right

735
00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:01,679
which which i actually didn't even

736
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,400
mention that i stole a bunch of stuff

737
00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:06,640
out of um ghost of salt march for the

738
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,960
the dragon ice water deep

739
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,120
section of that campaign too

740
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,880
but yeah so i mean

741
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,400
it's not it's a logical progression from

742
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,159
doing all of that and taking all these

743
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,440
disparate sort of adventures and and

744
00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:19,679
piecing them together and stringing them

745
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,520
together into one campaign

746
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:23,919
and then going to okay well now i've got

747
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,000
these big campaigns that run for

748
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:27,440
10 levels or more

749
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,840
it's not

750
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,240
that much of a mental leap to to start

751
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,600
doing that at least at least it wasn't

752
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,080
for me but i've i guess i've been

753
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,720
playing for a minute so

754
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,760
yeah it's just a few yeah

755
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,400
one one we mentioned it earlier on

756
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,480
around changing

757
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:50,400
the theme i guess a genre is maybe maybe

758
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,840
a better word to use um of of

759
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,360
let me bring it back on topic

760
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,679
professionally is that the you know

761
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,960
mashing up genres in particular campaign

762
00:25:55,679 --> 00:25:58,480
so now i don't know too much about those

763
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,480
published modules apart from i know

764
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,480
curse of strata is very

765
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,120
over what's the word not overbearing but

766
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,120
like ominous and right it's trying to

767
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,279
play on your classic sort of victorian

768
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,320
horror tropes yeah and then you

769
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:12,000
mentioned the one that was in like you

770
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,600
know a pirate bay but a little bit

771
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,000
lovecraftians they've all got their

772
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,919
tropes and stuff my

773
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,640
my homebrew campaign the one that i've

774
00:26:17,919 --> 00:26:22,320
been running for quite some time i

775
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,919
is here's my trouble when it comes to

776
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,640
world building and it's the bed that

777
00:26:23,919 --> 00:26:29,760
i've made for myself but um each of the

778
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,120
chapters in that i've said before but

779
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,880
i'll say it again is that i really

780
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:35,279
wanted those to be

781
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,360
self-contained for stars as in they have

782
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:38,880
a beginning in the middle of an end

783
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,880
a bit probably a bit like the seven the

784
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,799
wrong of the seven parts right there's

785
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,520
each one is a mission to go and get

786
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:47,279
something and mcguffin and bring it back

787
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,000
uh and also i really wanted the theming

788
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:50,960
to be really strong so when it comes to

789
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,279
building

790
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,039
the world that all of these

791
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:57,039
it's almost like an anime right so each

792
00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:58,720
episode each each campaign is like this

793
00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:00,400
is the water episode this is the beach

794
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,080
episode this is the

795
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,840
so somehow i've got a string together

796
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,640
getting the players from like you're

797
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,880
deep underground in in you know dwarven

798
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,960
territory and the next chapter i've kind

799
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,799
of got to help you get back from there

800
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,960
all the way up to the elven city in the

801
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,240
clouds because you're off to high

802
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,840
fantasy

803
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:23,039
future technology escalator lift world

804
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,880
so you've got a good sort of uh genre

805
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:26,720
thematic sort of mashup going on there

806
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,080
because because you have them going to

807
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,000
all these different sort of

808
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,240
locations that have extremely different

809
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,399
sort of feels yeah yeah yeah and i've

810
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,000
even done a it wasn't quite well

811
00:27:34,399 --> 00:27:37,120
actually it was a little bit

812
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,240
like um

813
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:41,360
borovia in that it was a i actually i

814
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,279
probably cripped more from that

815
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:44,880
subconsciously than i have ever thought

816
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:47,039
about in the past but it was very much

817
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,200
like a run-down

818
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:51,360
predominantly human settlement like x

819
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,799
our x farming settlement has some kind

820
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,720
of curse which has

821
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:58,080
basically killed all the crops and

822
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,679
it's always just gray and raining and

823
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,679
you know the signs are falling off the

824
00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:04,240
shops that feels like barometer to me

825
00:28:01,679 --> 00:28:06,320
yeah yeah yeah now now i'm saying it

826
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,159
it's it's crypto i think i you know it

827
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,159
could well have been lifted shifted from

828
00:28:08,159 --> 00:28:12,159
the shadow bell like in the blink of an

829
00:28:10,159 --> 00:28:13,600
eye but that was very much the theme i

830
00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:16,000
was going for i was just like a hop

831
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,679
skipping a two days ride from the

832
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,360
capital city of this continent which is

833
00:28:17,679 --> 00:28:21,840
you know thriving

834
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:23,200
megapolis uh so yeah trying to trying to

835
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,679
smush those together i've been quite

836
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:28,480
happy that uh i guess quite lucky that

837
00:28:25,679 --> 00:28:30,799
my players uh have as you said earlier

838
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,720
on like are happy to meet me halfway and

839
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,960
kind of like okay i know what dan low's

840
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,799
going for here let's uh let's go let's

841
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,840
sit here buckle up and let's settle in

842
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:40,320
for the

843
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,919
for the journey well and and

844
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,679
like that's a whole

845
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:45,520
way of thinking about and doing things

846
00:28:43,679 --> 00:28:48,000
that i think

847
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,159
provides some some interesting variety

848
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,679
that helps a campaign

849
00:28:50,159 --> 00:28:53,279
thrive you know

850
00:28:51,679 --> 00:28:55,520
if if i ran

851
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:58,000
a campaign from first level to 20th

852
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,720
level and it was all doom and gloom and

853
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:04,000
dark and ominous like morovia the entire

854
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:06,399
time like that would get tiresome

855
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,640
right there there was a a point playing

856
00:29:06,399 --> 00:29:10,960
through cursive straw where if the the

857
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,080
players were i think starting to feel

858
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,320
the same thing that their characters

859
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,240
were feeling like it is just nothing but

860
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,360
you know human gloom for a long time and

861
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:21,840
oppressive and then yeah absolutely so

862
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,679
so once we got out it was like okay

863
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,120
now i'm home brewing the rest of you

864
00:29:23,679 --> 00:29:27,200
know the act three like i mentioned

865
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,279
right and so

866
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,600
i've very purposely been like okay what

867
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:33,840
can i do what kind of

868
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,279
thing little vignettes can we do

869
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,880
uh these little

870
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:38,840
encounters or adventures smaller

871
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:42,080
adventures or whatever can we do that

872
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,120
is allowing us to explore these

873
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,559
different

874
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,240
genres right

875
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:49,520
now it's not so

876
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,960
blatant as like i'm purposely genre

877
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,960
mashing

878
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,640
but i'm mixing i'm mixing up a little

879
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,960
bit of my um

880
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,039
my story right and so and so when you

881
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,120
know you've been through through

882
00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:03,520
uh curse of strawd the next big

883
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,159
adventure that they ran through was

884
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,480
a mega mega death trap dungeon

885
00:30:06,159 --> 00:30:11,200
from two of annihilation right uh and

886
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,799
then i threw in a little bit of uh i

887
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,559
pulled the mass combat rules that had

888
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,919
they had an unearther cannon for mass

889
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:18,240
combat right yeah we did we did this

890
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:20,880
sort of the battle of of el torell

891
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,679
trying to save the holy city uh sort of

892
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,279
um adventure at one point and we pulled

893
00:30:23,679 --> 00:30:27,360
from candle keep mysteries and did these

894
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:29,440
sort of small little mysteries and one

895
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,320
of them that was actually written by a

896
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,559
friend of mine brenda stoddard um has

897
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,240
to do heavily with the fae and so we got

898
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:38,720
to bring in a little bit of a little bit

899
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,520
of fey stuff with our story as well and

900
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,440
so

901
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,440
that's that's allowed

902
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,120
to break it up a little bit to have that

903
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,679
campaign go for a long time we've been

904
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:50,000
playing this campaign for two almost two

905
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:51,840
and a half years okay um you know and i

906
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,960
think if you just did a campaign with

907
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,039
one sort of genre or theme throughout

908
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,600
for two and a half years it would

909
00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:02,799
possibly become tiresome right so by by

910
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,120
switching uh switching it up that's that

911
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:07,200
makes it more interesting now

912
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,480
what's sometimes more interesting to me

913
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,279
or at least

914
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,600
what can in the short term what can make

915
00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:15,440
really interesting things is is mashing

916
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,399
up and combining these genres or these

917
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,880
themes

918
00:31:16,399 --> 00:31:21,200
in one at one time right like we talked

919
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,000
about freeport being it is one it is

920
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,320
pirates but it is also uh lovecraftian

921
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,440
um you know the classic is is uh the

922
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:32,640
dresden files right it is detective noir

923
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,880
but it is fantasy right um and so you

924
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,159
know i i like the idea whenever i need a

925
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,760
new idea

926
00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:39,760
and i want to try to make something or

927
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,679
create something and make it interesting

928
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,919
um or unique

929
00:31:41,679 --> 00:31:46,399
my my go-to is okay well i'm kind of

930
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:48,399
interested in this theme

931
00:31:46,399 --> 00:31:50,000
and i'm kind of interested in this theme

932
00:31:48,399 --> 00:31:51,120
what would it look like if those two

933
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,120
themes were

934
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,200
on top of each other right and what kind

935
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,120
of weird and unique things does that

936
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,039
create in my brain

937
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,080
yeah all i can think of now is like a

938
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:04,399
crafting system in a video game uh

939
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,840
like when you when you take nails in a

940
00:32:04,399 --> 00:32:07,360
baseball bat and you take a grafting

941
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,679
bench and you make a baseball bat with

942
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:12,000
nails and i could the zombie game

943
00:32:09,679 --> 00:32:13,279
escapes me but um

944
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,200
that is the same way but you could do

945
00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:17,440
that with genres in real life like what

946
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,360
if i take x and m y and then smush them

947
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,440
together and see what unique things

948
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,679
happen honestly it's more interesting i

949
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,679
think when you do it with with a genre

950
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:27,440
uh you know if i have nails and i have a

951
00:32:25,679 --> 00:32:29,039
baseball bat and i get a baseball bat

952
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,519
with nails in it that's the logical

953
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:33,519
conclusion right that that's not weird

954
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:34,960
and quirky that that is exactly what you

955
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:36,080
would expect nails to do with a baseball

956
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,480
bat right

957
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:41,600
but if i take high fantasy and and

958
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,559
post-apocalyptic and end up with dark

959
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,159
sun like that is weird and unique and

960
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:47,600
that is not

961
00:32:46,159 --> 00:32:49,840
what you would have expected you know

962
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,360
that is a whole different genre because

963
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,679
you took these two other themes and

964
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,840
mashed them up right i i assume you're

965
00:32:53,679 --> 00:32:57,840
familiar with dark sound uh i've i've

966
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,519
heard of it yes yeah i guess i guess if

967
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,399
you've been playing mostly uh in fifth

968
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:03,919
edition yeah you mean so so dark sun was

969
00:33:02,399 --> 00:33:07,679
a second edition

970
00:33:03,919 --> 00:33:10,559
setting that they republished in fourth

971
00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:12,000
uh and the whole idea was

972
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:13,039
it's a desert

973
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,120
setting

974
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:18,000
and there's these sort of independent

975
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,960
city-states ruled by these sorcerer

976
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,600
kings

977
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,519
who practice a type of magic that drains

978
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,200
the life out of the world as they do it

979
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:26,720
which is how the the world became a

980
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,640
desert right it used to be this lush

981
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,799
green environment and and basically

982
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,120
magic was the apocalypse these these

983
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:35,279
power hungry people used this magic that

984
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,360
drained the world of life

985
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:39,760
and and they're oppressive and it's got

986
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,559
you know slavery and back in the second

987
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:45,360
edition days it was if you played a dark

988
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:47,760
sun campaign you like started at level

989
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,840
five because levels one through four

990
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,799
just can't survive it's too too

991
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,720
difficult it's too

992
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:56,960
it's too hard ass um

993
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,440
and and yeah so it's just uh and you

994
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,200
know there's no metal so everything all

995
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,279
your weapons and things are made of like

996
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,720
obsidian but that also means there's a

997
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:06,240
breaking mechanic like you can just hit

998
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,840
something in your sword shatters and now

999
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,560
you don't have a sword and

1000
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,560
um you know your your armor isn't made

1001
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,000
out of leather because

1002
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,599
you know there's not a lot of life

1003
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,440
teaming around and a lot of his you know

1004
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:20,000
chitin is sort of bug-like creatures or

1005
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,760
whatever uh and so your leather armor

1006
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,079
might have been woven from the hair of a

1007
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,960
giant you know that kind of stuff right

1008
00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:27,919
uh and and and psionics were

1009
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,879
or

1010
00:34:27,919 --> 00:34:32,560
influential uh clerics weren't really a

1011
00:34:30,879 --> 00:34:34,480
thing but they kind of were but they

1012
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,839
were all tied to various elements and

1013
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,560
and so even then there was a bit of a

1014
00:34:35,839 --> 00:34:40,079
harshness to it like that was somebody

1015
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,159
back in the second edition day saying

1016
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:43,919
hey what what if we take

1017
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:46,000
a classic fantasy setting let's what if

1018
00:34:43,919 --> 00:34:49,280
we take a greyhawk or forgotten realms

1019
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,560
or whatever and say that the bad guys

1020
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,639
won

1021
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,320
the world is destroyed

1022
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,800
and it's been hundreds of years

1023
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,640
thousands of years whatever now what's

1024
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,960
going on now what does that word look

1025
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,920
like right um so

1026
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,800
yeah it's it's a it's a classic sort of

1027
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:10,240
mashup setting of let's let's take

1028
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,680
post-apocalyptic and and fantasy and do

1029
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:12,720
it in one setting

1030
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,480
those kind of questions are the

1031
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:17,440
interesting kinds of questions what

1032
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,800
would it look like if x and y are like

1033
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,200
right and you can replace those

1034
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,359
variables with any you know the bad guys

1035
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,359
one and it's in the future like you

1036
00:35:23,359 --> 00:35:26,800
could you could just almost

1037
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:28,480
you know there's a way of generating

1038
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,160
maps we just roll dice on a table and

1039
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,280
draw around you know the dice and

1040
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,720
there's a you could probably do that

1041
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,640
with that hypothetical question you

1042
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:36,079
could just write have a dice table and

1043
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,839
roll it and just be like

1044
00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:40,160
the next arc of my campaign is going to

1045
00:35:37,839 --> 00:35:41,680
be if x happened and why haven't and

1046
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,599
then right and then that can be such a

1047
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,079
creative exercise there for the for the

1048
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:48,560
dm to think about like what would that

1049
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:50,000
actually look like well and you do that

1050
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,320
kind of thing with the maps and that

1051
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,280
raises all kinds of i don't know maybe i

1052
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,520
so i

1053
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,599
i've spent most of my life as a social

1054
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,160
studies educator right so geography is a

1055
00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:01,839
thing that i've taught a lot and so i i

1056
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,520
think about rolling the the dice

1057
00:36:01,839 --> 00:36:04,960
randomly on a piece of paper and drawing

1058
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,000
around it and you know each number

1059
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,760
represents a different sort of

1060
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,359
geographic feature and then

1061
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,599
that's going to create lots of moments

1062
00:36:09,359 --> 00:36:13,440
where it's like those things don't make

1063
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:15,359
sense next to each other is this like an

1064
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,920
abhorrent idea to you have i offended

1065
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:19,599
you no no no because that becomes an

1066
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,520
opportunity i look at that like this

1067
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:22,880
doesn't make sense next to each other so

1068
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,359
now i get to come up with some kind of

1069
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,119
kind of weird crazy magical thing that's

1070
00:36:25,359 --> 00:36:29,359
causing it right and i get to tell a

1071
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:32,079
weird story like that actually isn't a

1072
00:36:29,359 --> 00:36:33,680
mountain it's a it's a dead god who you

1073
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:35,119
know the stone just sort of formed up

1074
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,800
around them when they died and that's

1075
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:37,920
why there's a mountain next to that spot

1076
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,240
where there shouldn't be a mountain or

1077
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,160
whatever yeah yeah or why the rivers are

1078
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:44,240
splitting upstream and stuff like that

1079
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,920
is that yeah what what happened there

1080
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:49,119
and how does that happen

1081
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,720
what caused that yeah yeah okay

1082
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:52,480
yeah so that that's a yeah that's a very

1083
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,839
good i get well yeah classic another

1084
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,200
creative exercise there to get those

1085
00:36:53,839 --> 00:36:57,040
creative juices flowing and it's

1086
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,720
probably probably stuff i should

1087
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,560
leverage a bit more rather than just

1088
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:02,720
kind of trying to make everything up

1089
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:06,599
from from day one which is what leads to

1090
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:06,599
me needing to have dm holidays

1091
00:37:08,350 --> 00:37:11,659
[Music]

1092
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:23,200
so we've talked a lot so far around

1093
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:25,359
specifically dnd um and the published

1094
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,960
adventures and stuff around that i had a

1095
00:37:25,359 --> 00:37:28,640
question i don't know maybe this is like

1096
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,400
a really stupid question

1097
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,860
but that's the tightrope i walk with

1098
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,440
this show

1099
00:37:30,860 --> 00:37:34,800
[Laughter]

1100
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,440
is uh

1101
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,200
has there ever been anybody or any any

1102
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,160
desire or inclination by anyone to kind

1103
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,960
of

1104
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,800
smush different ttrpg systems together

1105
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,280
because there isn't you know there's no

1106
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,960
single one ttrpg system which is the

1107
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,720
best that everybody has everything has

1108
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,079
drawbacks or is tailored to a certain

1109
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,599
way of playing and

1110
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:54,720
while preparing for this episode i was

1111
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:56,640
thinking

1112
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:59,839
surely someone at some point must have

1113
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,320
gone oh i like the d20 system but i love

1114
00:37:59,839 --> 00:38:04,640
how this other system does combat

1115
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,920
encounters yeah how can i push those two

1116
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,760
together and

1117
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,000
to me that seems like oh yeah that that

1118
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,920
must happen all the time but

1119
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,880
i can't say i've ever stumbled across

1120
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:17,200
anything like that i mean i know

1121
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,720
there was a certainly a time in my youth

1122
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,040
where i was like oh i'm going to create

1123
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:22,880
a new a new rpg

1124
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,320
game or whatever and it was and then you

1125
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,320
look back at it it's like no it's really

1126
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,680
just me saying i really liked this game

1127
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,359
and i really like this game so i'm going

1128
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,880
to just throw my favorite parts of both

1129
00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:32,560
of them together and it never really

1130
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,400
worked it was it was a practice of

1131
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,560
immaturity but but no

1132
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,880
but it uh it was fun at the time right

1133
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,440
uh it was an exercise to keep my my mind

1134
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,960
busy i think again i don't know that i

1135
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,880
would call it

1136
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,880
mashing up systems but it is not

1137
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:50,240
uncommon to

1138
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:52,160
to take ideas from one game and and lift

1139
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:54,160
them and use them in another game sort

1140
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,680
of like i don't consider you running the

1141
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,520
dungeon from tumor violation really

1142
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,680
mashing it up because i'm just i'm not

1143
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,400
combining the stories but like

1144
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,520
when

1145
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,640
you know so

1146
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,960
uh i don't know if you're familiar with

1147
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,920
the game fiasco yeah yeah played it once

1148
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,560
before yeah i've got the books

1149
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,800
downstairs yeah so fiasco

1150
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,800
has this opens up with this sort of you

1151
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,200
build relationships with each other

1152
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,640
right uh you know so so you're you've

1153
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,560
got some connection to the person next

1154
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,240
to you you know here's a list of

1155
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,000
possible ways that you can be connected

1156
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,920
let's decide randomly and then you tell

1157
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,560
me what that story is right

1158
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,320
i've done that a bunch and actually um i

1159
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,440
think i originally stole that idea of

1160
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,440
using that in dnd from um mike shea from

1161
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,200
sly flourish is a friend of mine

1162
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,440
uh and so

1163
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,720
i think he originally years ago we

1164
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,960
talked about this

1165
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:43,760
uh and so i've done that pretty

1166
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:46,640
regularly now as a session zero for my

1167
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,560
dnd campaigns uh you know that way

1168
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,079
nobody's starting off

1169
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,280
unconnected you know it's not just a

1170
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:52,720
group of strangers and i've got to

1171
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,200
figure out some way to get them together

1172
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:57,040
it's a group of of interconnected people

1173
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,280
yeah and they may not all know each

1174
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,640
other but enough of them know enough

1175
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,400
about each other

1176
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,960
that it makes sense that they would kind

1177
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,839
of come together in that web right yeah

1178
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,599
or

1179
00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:08,480
another way that another thing that i've

1180
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:11,599
seen

1181
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,640
done i haven't done it myself but there

1182
00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:17,839
is a game called i think it's microscope

1183
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,200
okay and in microscope you actually are

1184
00:40:17,839 --> 00:40:21,920
creating

1185
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,760
a world you're creating a setting

1186
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,280
and so i've talked to several people who

1187
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,839
have talked about like you playing the

1188
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,760
game microscope to create a setting

1189
00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:31,359
and then playing d d in that sense oh

1190
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,480
okay right

1191
00:40:31,359 --> 00:40:34,720
uh or

1192
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,880
one of the i mean i i

1193
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:39,760
i'm not a huge fan of like the chase

1194
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,960
mechanics in d d that exist in the dmg

1195
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,560
right they're they're all right but

1196
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,680
they're not super like dynamic or

1197
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,160
exciting

1198
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,160
uh and so when i had some chases that i

1199
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,400
needed to run in dragon ice water deep

1200
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,880
rather than using those mechanics i kind

1201
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,599
of took those mechanics and mashed them

1202
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,720
up with the chase mechanics from uh torg

1203
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:59,280
eternity

1204
00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:00,880
speaking of mashups that's a whole game

1205
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,680
built on around matching up we can talk

1206
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:06,560
about that uh so they so torg eternity

1207
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,359
is is intended intentionally a more sort

1208
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,960
of cinematic game yes right okay so the

1209
00:41:09,359 --> 00:41:12,640
chase mechanics there can be pretty

1210
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,040
dynamic and exciting and whatever and so

1211
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,560
i took the torg eternity chase mechanics

1212
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,880
and mash it up with the d and d chase

1213
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,200
mechanics for that location and the

1214
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,960
obstacles that they presented and did it

1215
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,640
that way and that worked pretty well so

1216
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,440
that's sort of how i think about mashing

1217
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,200
up game systems uh but i also think

1218
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,800
there's a lot of value in recognizing

1219
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,680
that like

1220
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:36,240
system matters when it comes to

1221
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,839
telling a story right and some systems

1222
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,960
are better at telling certain kinds of

1223
00:41:37,839 --> 00:41:41,040
stories

1224
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,200
uh and so

1225
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,240
matt if you're gonna mash up things from

1226
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,119
others

1227
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:48,880
other systems uh into your game then i

1228
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:50,400
think it's worth bearing that in mind

1229
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,760
like d and d

1230
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,760
is a game

1231
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,359
full of mechanics that

1232
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,280
facilitate telling a certain kind of

1233
00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:58,560
story

1234
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,000
other games

1235
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,960
you know uh

1236
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,760
fiasco is not telling that kind of story

1237
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,440
right

1238
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,839
uh so

1239
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,800
so you can steal some ideas but i would

1240
00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:12,560
i would shy away from like completely

1241
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,160
creating a hodgepodge system that tries

1242
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,359
to do it all because it means that it's

1243
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,720
probably not going to be telling the

1244
00:42:15,359 --> 00:42:17,599
kind of story that you want to be

1245
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:19,359
telling

1246
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:21,040
as well as it could yeah it's going to

1247
00:42:19,359 --> 00:42:23,920
dilute the experience a little bit but i

1248
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,200
really love the idea there that

1249
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,560
the system

1250
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,119
that you're playing

1251
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,119
impacts the story i think it's because

1252
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:32,880
sometimes it can be a little bit

1253
00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:35,280
of a

1254
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,520
taboo thought like you could tell any

1255
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,119
story you want in d5e but i think

1256
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,319
ultimately that the

1257
00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:44,880
the framework that's there inevitably

1258
00:42:42,319 --> 00:42:46,319
impacts it emphasizes some things and

1259
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,839
isn't very good at other things like

1260
00:42:46,319 --> 00:42:49,200
chases for example and i think that

1261
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:50,960
inevitably

1262
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,119
shifts the focus

1263
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,880
maybe consciously or not of people

1264
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:56,240
writing you know homebrew and stuff and

1265
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,760
making their own games

1266
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:00,400
it's just kind of there the back of your

1267
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,640
mind that it encourages certain play

1268
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,560
styles and there was a real there was a

1269
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,800
real desire for a long time i feel like

1270
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,960
in the game industry to

1271
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,280
to have you know sort of the the one

1272
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,800
system to rule them all right the one

1273
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,760
game system that can just sort of do

1274
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,680
anything

1275
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,839
and and there are certainly systems that

1276
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,920
can tell any kind of story but that

1277
00:43:17,839 --> 00:43:22,960
doesn't mean that the game

1278
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,960
runs the same right d

1279
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,880
has a certain feel when you're playing

1280
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,839
at the table regardless of the story

1281
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,119
you're telling within that right whereas

1282
00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:35,839
like fate

1283
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:38,960
uh fate i think is a game that can run

1284
00:43:35,839 --> 00:43:42,160
pretty much any game in any

1285
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:44,640
genre in any setting right it can do

1286
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,640
just about anything but it is a very

1287
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,160
sort of narrative

1288
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,200
um i don't know if you've played fake

1289
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:53,599
before no and you only know it by name

1290
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:56,079
yeah so so fate is very much about

1291
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:58,560
giving players narrative control

1292
00:43:56,079 --> 00:44:00,720
uh at different moments and and it's all

1293
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,640
about it's all about building narrative

1294
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,400
and so there's not a lot of concern

1295
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,680
about um

1296
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,319
combat

1297
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,800
game balance you know uh because that's

1298
00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:13,359
not you know there's there's certainly a

1299
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,359
tactical element to playing d yeah oh

1300
00:44:13,359 --> 00:44:17,520
for sure there's not a tactical element

1301
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:19,200
to playing fate it's all about the

1302
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,119
narrative and the story you want to tell

1303
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,359
so it can tell any story but it feels

1304
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:24,319
very different yes yeah that feeling

1305
00:44:23,359 --> 00:44:25,920
yeah

1306
00:44:24,319 --> 00:44:27,680
i and my players are not always in the

1307
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,440
mood for

1308
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,440
you know this very narrative focused

1309
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,960
thing we want to tell stories we want to

1310
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,880
have a narrative but we want to do it

1311
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,400
and have this element of tactics and

1312
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,079
strategy and

1313
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,680
growth you know character development

1314
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:43,440
and leveling up and doing all those fun

1315
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:45,280
things that we do in in d as well

1316
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,960
yeah absolutely it's very very well put

1317
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,720
yeah i think that's a

1318
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,760
pretty much nail on the head there in

1319
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:51,680
terms of

1320
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,200
answering my original question as to why

1321
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,880
somebody hasn't tried to make the silver

1322
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,119
bullet and it's probably because it just

1323
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:00,400
probably won't work or won't be suitable

1324
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:02,079
for most games in a cruel twist of irony

1325
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,960
well i mean people certainly have i

1326
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:07,200
think it was steve jackson games um way

1327
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,000
back in the what 80s and 90s had a

1328
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,400
system called gerps oh yes yeah which

1329
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,800
which stands for generic universal role

1330
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,160
playing it was sort of a generic system

1331
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,880
and then they had all these different

1332
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,920
modules you could use to use girps to to

1333
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,119
tell all these different kinds of

1334
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,520
stories

1335
00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:25,520
i just don't know that it i mean there

1336
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,440
i don't know i never played gerbs i know

1337
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,480
lots of people who did and really loved

1338
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,400
it

1339
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,280
i have to imagine it also though has its

1340
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,599
own specific feel yeah depending you

1341
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,359
know independent of genre there'll be

1342
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:40,160
some concessions made along the way to

1343
00:45:37,359 --> 00:45:42,240
make it generic which again inevitably

1344
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,160
invariably affects some something for

1345
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:46,160
better or for worse now

1346
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,680
did i get the impression earlier that

1347
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,000
you've played torg

1348
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,200
uh no

1349
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,240
you might well have done but it was

1350
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,319
wrong

1351
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:56,800
okay i when i was referencing torque

1352
00:45:54,319 --> 00:45:58,079
attorney i i you see that you you were

1353
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,839
responding in a way that you seemed

1354
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:02,240
familiar with it but that's my high

1355
00:45:59,839 --> 00:46:03,680
charisma oh my god yeah yeah yeah you

1356
00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:06,240
got me with your deception checks yeah

1357
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:09,040
or i just bombed my my uh

1358
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:11,599
whatever it is inside yeah yeah yeah

1359
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,880
no no fiasco yes you played once and uh

1360
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:14,319
the guy actually gave me the books after

1361
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,079
we're done with them so we they're

1362
00:46:14,319 --> 00:46:17,200
sitting downstairs i do need to go back

1363
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:19,200
to that but thank you for reminding me

1364
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,440
actually because i

1365
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,359
i'm a again

1366
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:27,200
i kick myself because

1367
00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:29,200
having the pcs have that like six

1368
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,599
degrees of separation between them it's

1369
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,520
such an elegant solution to that first

1370
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:34,960
so you know session one issue of getting

1371
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,359
people together and i'm kicking myself

1372
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,880
for not having done that despite having

1373
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:42,480
played fiasco before starting my

1374
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:44,560
campaign yeah no it i i i'm certain i

1375
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:47,520
stole that idea of of using that from

1376
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,280
mike shay but it is a you know i i hate

1377
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,200
to give mike moore a bigger head than he

1378
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,560
already has but but it was a brilliant

1379
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,800
idea he and he has lots of brilliant

1380
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,960
ideas so yeah it doesn't even have to be

1381
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,280
like you're their brother or their long

1382
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,240
lost brother it can just be like

1383
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,119
you

1384
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:04,480
worked in their bar once you know 10

1385
00:47:03,119 --> 00:47:06,160
years ago or something and you owe them

1386
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,839
money for and you ran you know something

1387
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,960
something is you know that's that's why

1388
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:10,480
it's fun right because you can kind of

1389
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,960
as you said in session zero you can just

1390
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,319
kind of build that world together and

1391
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,720
invest the players and they haven't even

1392
00:47:14,319 --> 00:47:18,720
started playing yet which is the best

1393
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:20,800
kind of investment yeah no it's a system

1394
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,880
that works really well um

1395
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,119
and then a lot of times i will i'll

1396
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,760
build those relationships but i'll also

1397
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:29,040
connect them to something else in the

1398
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,680
story

1399
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,839
so it was you know the two of you

1400
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,440
know each other from this location that

1401
00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:36,720
i know is going to show up later on in

1402
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,319
the story

1403
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:40,160
right uh you know and then you get to

1404
00:47:38,319 --> 00:47:41,440
completely make up what what did you do

1405
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,599
in that location how do you know each

1406
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,119
other what happened whatever but now

1407
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:46,559
i've connected you to each other and

1408
00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:48,160
i've also connected to you to this

1409
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:50,640
location that is going to be important

1410
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,319
later on in the campaign yes right yeah

1411
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,920
yeah no i love that yeah that's great

1412
00:47:52,319 --> 00:47:55,839
because you're giving them free reign

1413
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:59,040
then to invent you know do the world

1414
00:47:55,839 --> 00:48:01,119
building dynamically which is great

1415
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:05,359
so we we've talked briefly about my

1416
00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:07,760
campaign and and other examples of um

1417
00:48:05,359 --> 00:48:09,440
kind of mashing up genres now as i said

1418
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,119
mine are quite

1419
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,800
compartmentalized it's probably the best

1420
00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:14,960
way to do it so i'm like here's the

1421
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,640
goofy one when you're up in this you

1422
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,960
know floating in this high elven city

1423
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,800
it's like dalaran from wow like it's

1424
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,960
there's holographic maps that people can

1425
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,040
look at that are you know appearing out

1426
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,280
and of the of the kiosks and stuff like

1427
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,920
that uh but then once that's over like

1428
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,680
they'll go back to reality and it will

1429
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,960
be some other theme they're going to

1430
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,720
next i think

1431
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,440
i think if memory serves the one they're

1432
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:40,240
going for is like a jurassic park

1433
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:42,319
kind of genre uh a lost island you know

1434
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:44,160
lost to time yeah that's happens to be

1435
00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:47,040
what i've set up there now

1436
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:49,040
but but that you even then you could do

1437
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,880
a little bit of genre matching because

1438
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,880
you've established that these other

1439
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,240
people from these other genres exist in

1440
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,720
your world

1441
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:59,359
so what happens if the dwarves and the

1442
00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:01,440
elves also show up looking for something

1443
00:48:59,359 --> 00:49:03,520
in that you know sort of lost world sort

1444
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,760
of location right and now you've got

1445
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,200
high elven magic and and the the i don't

1446
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,800
know what your doors were like these

1447
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,200
surly dwarves or whatever from

1448
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,280
underground in this dinosaur laden world

1449
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,680
and suddenly you're doing a a fun genre

1450
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,319
matchup yeah no that thank you because

1451
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,440
that is a yeah fantastic idea i and i

1452
00:49:18,319 --> 00:49:21,119
was only thinking of it because i was

1453
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,920
just mentioning torg

1454
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:26,720
i really liked tour guitar

1455
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,319
like i mostly played d d but man do i

1456
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:29,200
love torque eternity it is it is a

1457
00:49:28,319 --> 00:49:30,720
really so i don't know if you're

1458
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,680
familiar with the

1459
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:35,680
the game no no hit me up so

1460
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,920
uh torg attorney was originally i don't

1461
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,800
know late 80s into the 90s it was a game

1462
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:43,839
back then um it was actually that the

1463
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:45,119
name torg it was started off as a as a

1464
00:49:43,839 --> 00:49:46,480
stand-in while they were trying to

1465
00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:49,760
figure out the name for it and it just

1466
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,640
stood for the other role-playing game

1467
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,599
right

1468
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,839
because they were trying to be the

1469
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:55,760
alternative to dnd or whatever right

1470
00:49:53,839 --> 00:49:56,720
but then it stuck and it worked and so

1471
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,200
then

1472
00:49:56,720 --> 00:50:01,520
several years ago somebody else bought

1473
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,359
the license or bought the the ownership

1474
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:06,160
of of the brand

1475
00:50:03,359 --> 00:50:08,720
um i i think actually a guy in germany

1476
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:11,680
bought the the brand and started his

1477
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:13,520
company ulysses spiel and they

1478
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,440
relaunch toward

1479
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,280
freshening up the mechanics making it

1480
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:20,079
all sort of fit together better whatever

1481
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:23,040
uh it is a very sort of cinematic action

1482
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:24,480
story type of game right you can have

1483
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,880
insanely high

1484
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,480
uh like tens and twenties on a d20 roll

1485
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,559
explode okay

1486
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,079
so so you know if you roll a 10 you roll

1487
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:33,680
again and you just and you and you add

1488
00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:35,359
it and if you roll another 10 or a 20

1489
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,280
you can just keep going

1490
00:50:35,359 --> 00:50:40,319
so you can end up with these insane

1491
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:43,680
rolls uh and do crazy things uh but the

1492
00:50:40,319 --> 00:50:45,280
the whole concept of the the the game

1493
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,880
and the setting is

1494
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,559
that you know we're on earth it's no

1495
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,720
earth has you know they call it earth in

1496
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:52,319
the near now they don't really specify a

1497
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:54,559
certain year right it's just always

1498
00:50:52,319 --> 00:50:56,160
slightly ahead of where we are right now

1499
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:57,839
right the technology is a little bit

1500
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:01,040
better than it is right now

1501
00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:03,200
uh so it's it's the near now earth and

1502
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,359
all of a sudden one day

1503
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,359
all of these other realities invaded

1504
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:08,640
earth right there was a coordinated

1505
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:10,240
strike between all these different

1506
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,160
realities and they they all suddenly

1507
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:14,880
invade earth and when they do

1508
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,559
they change the reality of earth in

1509
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,440
these little triangular shapes all over

1510
00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:22,240
the the the map uh into their reality

1511
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:24,880
okay so you so you have your your high

1512
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:26,640
fantasy um sort of classic high fantasy

1513
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:30,160
dwarves and elves and magic and whatever

1514
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:31,440
up in in scandinavia and in england uh

1515
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:35,280
most of the uk

1516
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:37,359
but then just south of that in in france

1517
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,960
is the cyber papacy which is sort of a

1518
00:51:37,359 --> 00:51:40,800
big brother is always watching you but

1519
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,400
people are planted with cybernetics but

1520
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,920
it's all connected to the god net and

1521
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:47,520
the cyber pope is watching what you're

1522
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:50,240
doing right uh and then over in russia

1523
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:52,079
you have thar cold which is it's a

1524
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:53,920
little bit mad max a little bit

1525
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:56,559
hellraiser

1526
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:59,280
cyber demons have invaded and and the

1527
00:51:56,559 --> 00:52:01,200
russians rather than allowing so

1528
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,640
whenever a reality invaded they invaded

1529
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,640
through what's called a maelstrom bridge

1530
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,079
this sort of bridge literal physical

1531
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,359
bridge that appears out of the sky and

1532
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:09,200
just sort of slams down in the middle of

1533
00:52:07,359 --> 00:52:10,480
a place and all these invading armies

1534
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,119
come in right

1535
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:16,559
the russians had saw that

1536
00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:19,440
maelstrom bridge appear in the middle of

1537
00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:20,800
moscow and their solution was nuket

1538
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,400
right right in the middle of their own

1539
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,280
capital city they nuked the males from

1540
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,839
bridge which created this this um you

1541
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,599
know particulate of reality that sort of

1542
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:31,920
washed over and created this mad max

1543
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:33,599
sort of uh environment well the cyber

1544
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,240
demons are trying to hang on to control

1545
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:37,280
there's this un this radioactive but

1546
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:39,839
reality

1547
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:42,720
weird sort of area right uh down in

1548
00:52:39,839 --> 00:52:46,559
egypt you have the nile empire which is

1549
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:50,079
like 1920s pulp era superheroes okay

1550
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:51,119
right and so uh uh dr mobius has invaded

1551
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:53,440
and

1552
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:55,839
uh with his armies that are clearly uh a

1553
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:58,240
metaphor for nazis right but it's all

1554
00:52:55,839 --> 00:53:01,359
sort of pseudo-egyptian

1555
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:05,119
ancient egyptian themed over in india

1556
00:53:01,359 --> 00:53:06,720
you have um aurorsh which is a victorian

1557
00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:09,200
horror setting

1558
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:11,440
and then north america is being invaded

1559
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:16,000
by the living land which is your your

1560
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:18,240
pulp era sort of um lost world dinosaur

1561
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,160
people running around and whatever so so

1562
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,520
i thought of that again when you

1563
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,960
when i when i gave you the advice of

1564
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,960
bring the elves and the dwarves into

1565
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,240
this into your lost world area because

1566
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,280
that's the kind of thing that happens in

1567
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:29,119
torah like

1568
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,599
you're the heroes and you're going after

1569
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:32,400
this this macguffin whatever it is to

1570
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:33,920
help

1571
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,880
fight the war against these reality

1572
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,760
raiders

1573
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,280
but

1574
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,440
inevitably if there's something that's

1575
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,960
that valuable there agents from these

1576
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,480
other realities are going to show up as

1577
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:46,319
well and so you're going to be fighting

1578
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:48,240
you know egyptian nazis uh and and

1579
00:53:46,319 --> 00:53:49,760
horrible evil monsters on dragon back or

1580
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:52,400
whatever at the same time that you're

1581
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:54,480
going after this thing in in oh i i

1582
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:57,040
skipped a whole reality there's uh in

1583
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,240
east asia there's um pan pacifica which

1584
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,760
is

1585
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:03,839
mega corpse and sort of a zombie uh

1586
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,280
plague sort of thing okay they're not

1587
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:07,440
actually zombies but it's kind of like

1588
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,680
that and and they've the mega corps have

1589
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,280
convinced everybody that they're your

1590
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,720
only hope right against this this

1591
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,400
horrible zombie plague when in fact

1592
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,240
they're the ones that have invaded uh

1593
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,559
from another reality so

1594
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:20,559
yeah so it's so it's it's a it is a

1595
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:22,480
whole game built around

1596
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:24,480
mashing up all these genres like

1597
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,400
literally you can go from one reality to

1598
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,200
another reality and it goes from horror

1599
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,400
to

1600
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,880
to superheroes uh through a

1601
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,760
uh traveling through geography right uh

1602
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,520
you just

1603
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,440
physically relocate yourself to another

1604
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,200
place and you can have characters in

1605
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,640
your party that are from these different

1606
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,280
realities as well

1607
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,119
existence and whatever yeah uh or you

1608
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:48,799
could be or you could be a dwarf who's

1609
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:50,559
gone to tharkold and gotten um the the

1610
00:54:48,799 --> 00:54:52,079
so so there's cybernetics in both

1611
00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:54,079
darkhold and the cyberpapacy and the

1612
00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:55,280
cyberpapacy ones are relatively nice but

1613
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:57,359
they allow the

1614
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,400
the bad guys to spy on you whereas the

1615
00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:00,000
ones from thor called from the

1616
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,720
cyberdemons are like well these are

1617
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,720
really like horrific and ugly and and

1618
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:06,559
they they're fueled on pain so you can

1619
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,760
go you know you could be a an elf who's

1620
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:09,760
gone and

1621
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,280
replaced an arm with a laser gun from

1622
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:14,240
thar cold that just hurts every time you

1623
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:16,480
shoot it yeah you can do all kinds of uh

1624
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:18,960
weird mashups with that game

1625
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:21,920
it's a lot of fun yeah that sounds there

1626
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:24,160
and and talking of that reminded me that

1627
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:26,720
i i do myself a disservice actually

1628
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:29,520
because i do have that kind of

1629
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:31,839
subversive mashup in in my dwarfs

1630
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,599
funnily enough my they've done that

1631
00:55:31,839 --> 00:55:35,839
campaign they've done that arc and i

1632
00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:39,359
thought what would be

1633
00:55:35,839 --> 00:55:42,319
often not always but often dwarves in in

1634
00:55:39,359 --> 00:55:43,680
pop culture are seen as um

1635
00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:44,960
very you know uh

1636
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,200
you know strong work ethic very

1637
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:49,520
pragmatic very industrious you know like

1638
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,440
mining and producing

1639
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,319
metal metal metallurgy and all that kind

1640
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,559
of stuff

1641
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:57,200
and i was thinking what is like

1642
00:55:54,559 --> 00:55:58,880
the logical end point of that

1643
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,400
and so basically

1644
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,079
my players like we've got to go to

1645
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,160
dwarven capital and they're like okay

1646
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:06,160
you're sailing through a river that goes

1647
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,520
into a mountain and the docks are

1648
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,480
basically like

1649
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:13,839
deep in the mountain you jump off

1650
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:16,000
and basically i've have it so that it's

1651
00:56:13,839 --> 00:56:18,720
ultra capitalist there's like

1652
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:21,920
everything's like walmarts and targets

1653
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:24,240
and high street shops all run by dwarves

1654
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:26,480
but that's like a logical end point of

1655
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:28,880
like industry just like the industrial

1656
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:31,200
revolution is this kind of late stage

1657
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,799
capitalism we find ourselves in uh and

1658
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,920
so it is very much like there's a bunch

1659
00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:35,680
of dwarven

1660
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,520
young dwarves that are working in these

1661
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,520
supermarkets essentially flight armor so

1662
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,920
there's literally armor on rails

1663
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,599
weapons along the wall like a cookie

1664
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,440
cutter just hundreds and hundreds and

1665
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:47,200
hundreds of these swords so that was

1666
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,760
that was the kind of so my players were

1667
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:52,240
expecting to step into this very like

1668
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,319
you know dirty with like smelting and

1669
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:56,240
steam and

1670
00:56:54,319 --> 00:56:57,760
you know anvils and

1671
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:00,319
furnaces and all that kind of stuff but

1672
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:02,880
it was actually like super like

1673
00:57:00,319 --> 00:57:05,280
clinically clean it was bright

1674
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,359
yeah bright white lights everywhere just

1675
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,200
blasting everybody with the

1676
00:57:07,359 --> 00:57:10,319
super bright white lights

1677
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,160
um

1678
00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:14,880
and that was a mashup of like dwarven

1679
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,000
industry but with like modern kind of

1680
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,280
like the yeah

1681
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,200
the logical endpoint of that and that

1682
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,359
was uh it was very fun to run from a

1683
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:23,119
dm's perspective and i'm i'm

1684
00:57:21,359 --> 00:57:24,400
fairly certain my players enjoyed their

1685
00:57:23,119 --> 00:57:27,359
time

1686
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:29,520
well and and and what does

1687
00:57:27,359 --> 00:57:31,119
late stage capitalism do better than

1688
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,880
look for new opportunities elsewhere in

1689
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:34,240
the world to go and exploit resources in

1690
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,079
those places right

1691
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,920
precisely why when you said that i was

1692
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:41,119
like that actually works way better than

1693
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:43,359
jeff realizes it

1694
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:45,200
yeah so they're planning to go there on

1695
00:57:43,359 --> 00:57:46,799
ship and i can have them as they're

1696
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,160
approaching their dog point i might have

1697
00:57:46,799 --> 00:57:49,680
like little um

1698
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,200
you know like in like tarzan where they

1699
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,640
have the little they have little science

1700
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,160
bases like deep in the jungle there

1701
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,760
might be one for the elves and then they

1702
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,440
pass they you know further down the

1703
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:00,000
coast they see one with the dwarves and

1704
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,359
the players are going to be like oh okay

1705
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,480
there's this you know there's more stuff

1706
00:58:01,359 --> 00:58:04,319
happening here maybe we should go and

1707
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,400
investigate and uh yeah different all

1708
00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:08,079
these different genres you created

1709
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,559
all are all in one world and they can

1710
00:58:08,079 --> 00:58:12,400
show up right yeah that would be that's

1711
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:14,280
that's pretty much what i

1712
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,400
need to do to break down that

1713
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,000
compartmentalization a little bit more

1714
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,680
because i think

1715
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,520
that it's very easy for my players to be

1716
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,839
like well you know slam the book chat on

1717
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,920
that chapter moving on god you know it's

1718
00:58:23,839 --> 00:58:27,520
that book is burning but we forget that

1719
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,079
book's over so we can just forget about

1720
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:32,070
it and i need to be like no

1721
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:34,480
there are consequences to your actions

1722
00:58:32,070 --> 00:58:35,440
[Laughter]

1723
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,880
is there anything that you wanted to

1724
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,799
talk about that we might have missed in

1725
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,960
today's discussion i mean i only had one

1726
00:58:38,799 --> 00:58:43,119
other thing sort of in my in my bullet

1727
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,040
point notes that that we could bring up

1728
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:48,160
and that's the idea of mashing up

1729
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:50,400
monsters um can it be a lot of fun too

1730
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:52,559
uh you know uh and and sometimes you'll

1731
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,400
see published uh you know collections of

1732
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:57,119
monsters or monster manuals there'll be

1733
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,240
mashups of monsters and whatever but um

1734
00:58:57,119 --> 00:58:59,440
you know i guess i would just tell

1735
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,200
people like if you're looking if you're

1736
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,119
a dm and you're looking to surprise your

1737
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:06,079
players

1738
00:59:03,119 --> 00:59:08,880
think to yourself what would happen if

1739
00:59:06,079 --> 00:59:10,160
a i don't know so let's say a troll

1740
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,200
and a

1741
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,160
i don't know

1742
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:16,400
uh kuatoa were mashed up into the same

1743
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,599
sort of thing right uh you know what

1744
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,680
happens when they're fighting the the

1745
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:21,680
legion of kuwatoa and then suddenly they

1746
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,720
they find the the sort of big chieftain

1747
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:26,240
who starts regenerating and won't die

1748
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,839
and the only thing that can stop the

1749
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,720
regeneration is fire but you're under

1750
00:59:27,839 --> 00:59:30,319
water

1751
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,359
you know

1752
00:59:30,319 --> 00:59:32,559
you know

1753
00:59:31,359 --> 00:59:33,760
there's all kinds of things you can do

1754
00:59:32,559 --> 00:59:35,920
with with that as well i mean there's

1755
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,880
there's as many combinations as there

1756
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,720
are

1757
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,319
monsters that exist in different books

1758
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,000
right uh that you can be like well what

1759
00:59:40,319 --> 00:59:43,440
happens if you take some of the features

1760
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,960
from this monster and match them up with

1761
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,359
that monster and

1762
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:49,440
create a whole new thing that that isn't

1763
00:59:47,359 --> 00:59:50,880
even necessarily just a derivative of a

1764
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,440
thing but just a completely different

1765
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,640
monster um you know your balance is all

1766
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,920
going to still kind of be there

1767
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,559
especially if you pick two things that

1768
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,240
are relatively equal in cr but it's a

1769
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:02,240
fun way to sort of surprise your players

1770
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,000
because like hey i you know you got that

1771
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:06,000
player who's who's memorized the monster

1772
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,079
manual but like this isn't a thing from

1773
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,440
the monster manual yeah actually it is

1774
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:11,040
it's just two things for the monster

1775
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,000
manual

1776
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,319
so

1777
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,680
yeah that's a it's a very good tip and

1778
01:00:14,319 --> 01:00:17,359
something again i probably need to do

1779
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,280
more of that that takes a little that

1780
01:00:17,359 --> 01:00:21,040
takes a little more forethought and yeah

1781
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,319
i don't like to do that like on the fly

1782
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,680
because then you don't know what you're

1783
01:00:22,319 --> 01:00:25,520
going to get but like every now and then

1784
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,559
when you want to throw a curveball at

1785
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,440
them or

1786
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:29,280
give them something that they're not

1787
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,200
expecting or you need you need something

1788
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,480
to make the the big boss work or you're

1789
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,079
just creating

1790
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,200
sort of this creature that that you want

1791
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:38,160
to sort of be a

1792
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,880
a touchstone or a keystone moment yeah

1793
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,040
that

1794
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,680
can can really sort of bring the session

1795
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,720
to life or whatever um you can mash

1796
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,760
something up to give them something

1797
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,760
unique

1798
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,799
on on that same vein and i think we

1799
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,319
talked about it way back when we

1800
01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:52,640
arranged this was

1801
01:00:50,319 --> 01:00:53,760
uh about multi-classing and then

1802
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,599
i'm going to keep this short but the

1803
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,280
question i want to level at you and it

1804
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:58,799
is one that i've heard

1805
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,119
on on the twitter verse a couple of

1806
01:00:58,799 --> 01:01:03,839
times recently around people debating

1807
01:01:01,119 --> 01:01:06,640
the validity of a

1808
01:01:03,839 --> 01:01:08,400
like a paladin and warlock multi-class

1809
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,400
sure often both of those classes

1810
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:12,799
themselves usually regarded you know

1811
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:14,319
pretty top tier just stand alone for

1812
01:01:12,799 --> 01:01:16,799
various reasons so

1813
01:01:14,319 --> 01:01:17,839
but a lot of the criticism is that like

1814
01:01:16,799 --> 01:01:21,359
are they just they're just you know

1815
01:01:17,839 --> 01:01:22,880
thematically incompatible and i wonder

1816
01:01:21,359 --> 01:01:24,480
i would argue if you think it's

1817
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,640
thematically incompatible that you need

1818
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,400
to work on your creativity

1819
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,240
i can tell some sort of crazy story

1820
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,839
where that makes sense and that's kind

1821
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:34,000
of the fun right take something that

1822
01:01:31,839 --> 01:01:36,720
seems incompatible and then figure out

1823
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:39,599
how to make it work i mean give yourself

1824
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:41,839
those those creative restraints

1825
01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:44,240
and and then try to bust through them

1826
01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:46,480
like that's that's half the fun right

1827
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:49,359
now you i mean i get where that's coming

1828
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:52,720
from right the the warlock and the and

1829
01:01:49,359 --> 01:01:54,559
the paladin are not inherently

1830
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:56,480
compatible because they both serve a

1831
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:58,240
master and

1832
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:01,520
the way those masters work out they're

1833
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:03,200
probably not the same master right

1834
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,720
but i can certainly

1835
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,640
come up with something to make that work

1836
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,079
right where there's a will there's a way

1837
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:10,559
i like to say i think i think there's

1838
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:12,079
probably if you really unless unless the

1839
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:14,000
setting was like

1840
01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:16,079
you know focused on the oaths of

1841
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,000
paladins you know really strongly then

1842
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:19,039
then maybe that's maybe pushing that

1843
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,599
boundary

1844
01:02:19,039 --> 01:02:24,400
i had um in my

1845
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:26,559
cursive straw water deep campaign

1846
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,079
i had a um

1847
01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:30,559
was it divine

1848
01:02:28,079 --> 01:02:32,640
sorcerer yeah divine soul i think yeah

1849
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:33,440
divine soul sorcerer

1850
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,480
who

1851
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:38,960
picked up like a a a dark

1852
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:41,440
warlock pact along the way so on one

1853
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,280
hand like they have this guardian angel

1854
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,960
and and they're very they have this very

1855
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:47,599
sort of celestial

1856
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,039
theming to him and whatever um

1857
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:50,559
but yet

1858
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:52,880
taking this dark

1859
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:54,960
warlock pact made a lot of sense in the

1860
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,960
story the character is also an asamar so

1861
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:59,280
they're part celestial you know their

1862
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,520
divine soul you know they've got all

1863
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,520
this sort of celestial goody goody stuff

1864
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:05,520
going on

1865
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,280
but when a dark power starts whispering

1866
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,280
in your mind and offering you new

1867
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,160
abilities to save the world and whatever

1868
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,720
like

1869
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:14,240
that that starts off making sense like

1870
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,640
if i can have the power to save the

1871
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:19,119
world why would i turn that down yeah it

1872
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,720
just slowly becomes darker and darker as

1873
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:22,240
it goes because

1874
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:25,119
horrible evil things like the dark

1875
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,640
powers or lovecraftian creatures or

1876
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:28,799
whatever like

1877
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:30,480
they've got time they can will or even

1878
01:03:28,799 --> 01:03:31,920
devils right they can whittle you down

1879
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:34,160
it can be they can be giving you

1880
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:37,119
everything you want at the beginning

1881
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,799
and and whittle you down uh uh and and

1882
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:40,400
slowly get you to make little

1883
01:03:38,799 --> 01:03:42,319
compromises that then become

1884
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,520
medium-sized compromises and then you

1885
01:03:42,319 --> 01:03:44,799
know you then you have to make a

1886
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,400
decision like am i really going to make

1887
01:03:44,799 --> 01:03:47,839
this compromise at what point do i cross

1888
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,599
a line yeah

1889
01:03:47,839 --> 01:03:51,839
sunk sunk cost fallacy well i've made

1890
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:54,000
all these compromises so far so right

1891
01:03:51,839 --> 01:03:55,440
what's one more so so that becomes i

1892
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,359
mean taking something that feels

1893
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:59,440
impossible but building a story around

1894
01:03:57,359 --> 01:04:00,400
it to make it make sense and make it

1895
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,760
work

1896
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,039
that's that's i don't know that's the

1897
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,680
most fun kind of stories to tell in the

1898
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:07,119
india my experience

1899
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:09,119
absolutely well thank you for answering

1900
01:04:07,119 --> 01:04:10,839
that question and providing such a good

1901
01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:13,680
end to the episode

1902
01:04:10,839 --> 01:04:14,799
um is there anything you would like to

1903
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,039
promote

1904
01:04:14,799 --> 01:04:18,720
uh i i tell people if they want to hear

1905
01:04:17,039 --> 01:04:21,680
more from me i i've been running a

1906
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:23,599
podcast for 15 years the tome show so

1907
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,920
far as i can tell it is the longest

1908
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:28,319
continuously running dnd podcast around

1909
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,960
um i think the only dnd podcast i can

1910
01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:33,520
think of that started before us was d d

1911
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:36,160
focused anyway uh was the official dmd

1912
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:38,559
podcast but they've completely changed

1913
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:40,640
hosts like three times and changed names

1914
01:04:38,559 --> 01:04:41,760
several times so i'm going to say that

1915
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,079
it's a different podcast and that we're

1916
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:45,280
older than them so

1917
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:47,200
so yeah we've been doing a lot we've

1918
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:49,200
been podcasting there for a long time

1919
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,440
thetomeshow.com is where you can find

1920
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:53,119
the podcast uh you can find the show on

1921
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:56,079
twitter as well it is at the tome show

1922
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:58,319
and i am at squatch squuach uh on

1923
01:04:56,079 --> 01:04:59,680
twitter as well awesome well all that's

1924
01:04:58,319 --> 01:05:01,359
left to say is thank you ever so much

1925
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,559
for for joining us today jeff that's a

1926
01:05:01,359 --> 01:05:03,760
really interesting and insightful

1927
01:05:02,559 --> 01:05:06,319
conversation

1928
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:08,799
yeah it was fun thanks a lot no worries

1929
01:05:06,319 --> 01:05:10,160
thank you everybody to listening at home

1930
01:05:08,799 --> 01:05:11,200
uh the tome show and all the jeff's

1931
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,760
socials will be in the episode

1932
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,400
description as per usual so i would

1933
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:18,319
encourage you to check them all out i

1934
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,559
gotta set a reminder for me to message

1935
01:05:18,319 --> 01:05:22,400
jeff in 14 years when i'll also be my

1936
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:24,799
15-year anniversary of this show just so

1937
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,720
i can then i'll be doing it for like 29

1938
01:05:24,799 --> 01:05:30,160
years

1939
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:32,880
i'll be in my 60s by then but yeah

1940
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:34,160
uh yeah so as usual

1941
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,359
please please check out one of jeff's

1942
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,400
stuff and check everything in the

1943
01:05:35,359 --> 01:05:39,039
episode description

1944
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:41,599
otherwise thank you all for listening

1945
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:43,200
and good night

1946
01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:45,599
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1947
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:48,160
outs once again thank you to matt street

1948
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:49,039
at mpstreet88 on twitter for supporting

1949
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,319
the show

1950
01:05:49,039 --> 01:05:53,319
if you need support running your

1951
01:05:50,319 --> 01:05:55,520
personal or business schedule head to

1952
01:05:53,319 --> 01:05:57,200
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1953
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,359
make that difference between should do

1954
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,200
and done boss it better with support

1955
01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:03,440
from cat who will help you get back that

1956
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,960
essential time you've been searching for

1957
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,799
if you would like to support what we do

1958
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:09,520
and get four shout outs a month head

1959
01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:11,039
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1960
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:13,680
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1961
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:16,680
kofi.com thinking critically thank you

1962
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,680
bye

1963
01:06:16,810 --> 01:06:25,770
[Applause]

1964
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:29,039
[Music]

1965
01:06:25,770 --> 01:06:29,039
[Applause]

1966
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:40,530
[Music]