Hooks

1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:06,840
welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 13.

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:15,280
today's topic is hooks

3
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:15,490
[Music]

4
00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:26,480
[Applause]

5
00:00:15,490 --> 00:00:29,400
[Music]

6
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:31,199
and today i'm joined by mike from

7
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,559
gamesplayedbadly thank you ever so much

8
00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:34,640
for joining us today mike can you tell

9
00:00:32,559 --> 00:00:36,239
us a little bit about yourself

10
00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,920
sure thanks for having me on this is

11
00:00:36,239 --> 00:00:39,360
unique because normally i don't get

12
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,680
interviewed i'm the one doing the

13
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,840
interviewing

14
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,680
my name is mike i run a youtube channel

15
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,840
called gamesplaybadly

16
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,320
i'm also on twitter and facebook and all

17
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,399
the other social media platforms but

18
00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,000
basically i run a um

19
00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:56,960
interview show called session zero where

20
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,559
i interview ttrpg creators or creators

21
00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,879
in general to figure out

22
00:00:58,559 --> 00:01:03,039
how they do what they do why they do it

23
00:01:00,879 --> 00:01:05,040
and learn something about their product

24
00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:07,119
i've been playing uh

25
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,799
table top role playing games for 30 some

26
00:01:07,119 --> 00:01:11,119
odd years

27
00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:13,840
started with d went through a bunch of

28
00:01:11,119 --> 00:01:15,840
the palladium systems tmnt

29
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,000
uh palladium fantasy

30
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,920
played some dc heroes all sorts of

31
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,840
different stuff so and i'm also a big

32
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,280
board gamer so i we have tons of board

33
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,799
games that i like to play so i'm just a

34
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,280
gamer in general

35
00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:28,400
i'm uh in chicago and

36
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,560
um

37
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,479
have been here my entire life and uh i

38
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,159
decided that during the pandemic why not

39
00:01:32,479 --> 00:01:35,439
start creating something for other

40
00:01:34,159 --> 00:01:38,560
people to watch because i know we were

41
00:01:35,439 --> 00:01:39,920
all kind of uh isolated by ourselves and

42
00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,759
it also helped me kind of get through it

43
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,479
as well

44
00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:46,880
likewise we are p's in a pod separated

45
00:01:44,479 --> 00:01:48,159
by the ocean it must have must have that

46
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,439
that thought process must have happened

47
00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:52,720
at the same time something must have

48
00:01:49,439 --> 00:01:54,720
been a shooting star or something to

49
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,880
me starting this podcast too

50
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,079
uh but you know annoyed that's uh a

51
00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,680
little bit that you said you're a board

52
00:01:58,079 --> 00:02:00,960
gamer as well because now we can't talk

53
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,320
about it because now we're recording we

54
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:06,880
have to wait for the end of the episode

55
00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,720
as well so

56
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,599
um anyway thank you so much for joining

57
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:14,319
us today mike today today's topic is all

58
00:02:11,599 --> 00:02:17,280
about hooks so what does that mean to

59
00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:18,800
you in the d d and wider ttrpg framework

60
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,120
well you know i mean as a dm you're

61
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,879
always trying to find a way to engage a

62
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,319
group especially if it's a new group

63
00:02:22,879 --> 00:02:25,360
with people who haven't played together

64
00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:28,000
before

65
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,599
um and even with some established

66
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,319
players who have kind of been around

67
00:02:29,599 --> 00:02:34,160
each other for a while uh it's for me i

68
00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:37,040
use it as a tool to bring people into

69
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:39,200
the story or to help guide them to where

70
00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,160
i think their ultimate goal needs to be

71
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,080
so

72
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,840
um there's a term that people use called

73
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,280
railroading

74
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:50,160
i'm not a big railroad uh dm uh to an

75
00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:52,239
extent so if we're playing a module that

76
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,599
was pre-written

77
00:02:52,239 --> 00:02:55,280
then there's obviously a goal there that

78
00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:58,640
needs to be completed for us to wrap

79
00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:00,959
that up so to some extent there is a

80
00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:02,800
railroad aspect of it you know all

81
00:03:00,959 --> 00:03:04,560
all roads lead to the end goal no matter

82
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,879
which direction you go but you can have

83
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,640
fun in the in the in the journey there

84
00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:10,959
so there will be side quests that will

85
00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:13,360
do and things that i'll make up and i

86
00:03:10,959 --> 00:03:15,760
mean most i would say

87
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:19,599
75 percent of modules that i run

88
00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:21,440
um are actually me and the 25 is what

89
00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:23,040
the creator actually created and that's

90
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,000
not against the creator themselves it's

91
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,599
just

92
00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,200
you know sometimes things kind of fall

93
00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:29,440
off the tracks or

94
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,280
a group decides that they want to do

95
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,280
uh certain things that

96
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,200
don't logically mesh

97
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,519
with what was written and so therefore

98
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,519
it it's a ripple effect

99
00:03:37,519 --> 00:03:40,799
and i'm a big and i hate to say this

100
00:03:39,519 --> 00:03:42,560
because it makes me sound boring but i'm

101
00:03:40,799 --> 00:03:45,120
a big logic guy

102
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,040
so if logically something doesn't work

103
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,879
then you know modifications have to be

104
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,080
made to make sure that it it doesn't i

105
00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:51,120
don't want to pull people out of the

106
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,319
fantasy

107
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,959
i don't want to pull them out of the

108
00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:56,799
game and so therefore if i was to say

109
00:03:54,959 --> 00:03:58,319
you know okay you're going to go fight

110
00:03:56,799 --> 00:04:00,720
this dragon but you end up being

111
00:03:58,319 --> 00:04:02,799
ambushed by these orcs and then

112
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,799
something else happens which it is

113
00:04:02,799 --> 00:04:07,200
completely in incongruous with

114
00:04:04,799 --> 00:04:10,239
everything else that's going on it

115
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:12,000
makes players stop and think

116
00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:13,920
and um it takes them out of the role

117
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,880
play it takes them out of the the the

118
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,280
setting and so it's my job as a dm or

119
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:22,160
the way that idm at least is to make

120
00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:23,600
sure that that illusion is continued

121
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,800
that theater of the mind is completed

122
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,000
without having any gaps or stops where

123
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,919
people just kind of scratch their heads

124
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,080
going that doesn't make sense

125
00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:34,479
and so that's where hooks come in for me

126
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,560
is how can i bring people back in or how

127
00:04:34,479 --> 00:04:39,520
do i bring people in to begin with

128
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,680
okay thank you i i am again

129
00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:44,000
very very similar in terms of i like

130
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:47,199
keeping the world congruent that's a

131
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,639
huge thing for me very very high up

132
00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:50,160
which is annoying when it comes up to

133
00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:52,240
things like economy and stuff because

134
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,240
i'm very not qualified to deal with like

135
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,560
money and stuff but i still like to try

136
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:59,040
and keep it making sense

137
00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:01,840
but um yes that is very close to my own

138
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:03,600
heart as well i i i try and stay away

139
00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:05,840
from weird things that are just

140
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,759
completely bizarre or that you know if

141
00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:09,039
the players do something then they were

142
00:05:07,759 --> 00:05:11,039
the logic of the universe can only

143
00:05:09,039 --> 00:05:12,639
stretch so much to accommodate the

144
00:05:11,039 --> 00:05:13,919
players before

145
00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:16,160
something has to give or something has

146
00:05:13,919 --> 00:05:18,240
to change to to be like this is this

147
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,160
yeah accommodating whatever they're

148
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,120
getting up to at that particular time

149
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,960
yeah i completely agree yeah yeah

150
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,360
a it's a it's a it's a fine balance

151
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,479
because you're you're looking at

152
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,919
you know again if it's a pre-written

153
00:05:28,479 --> 00:05:31,759
module you want to kind of get to the

154
00:05:29,919 --> 00:05:33,840
end of it because right now a group that

155
00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:36,560
i'm running we're doing uh

156
00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:38,240
we're doing um two of annihilation which

157
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,479
takes place in chult and it's a massive

158
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,360
adventure it really is but they were

159
00:05:40,479 --> 00:05:46,400
coming out of keep over shadowfell and

160
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:48,479
um i had highly customized that for them

161
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,080
there was a lot of emotion built up into

162
00:05:48,479 --> 00:05:51,520
that there was a lot of yeah i mean

163
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,440
there was physical crying throughout

164
00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,600
this process of kind of unraveling their

165
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,680
characters you know and the where they

166
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,840
started in 2013 and where they're at now

167
00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:02,400
are completely different there's it's a

168
00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:04,319
much more expanded universe you know so

169
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,440
i built it around family family is a big

170
00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:08,880
deal for me so that was a really really

171
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,720
interesting hook because you got to see

172
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,199
how people dealt with

173
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,639
um being maybe introduced to people they

174
00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:16,720
didn't know existed or people they

175
00:06:14,639 --> 00:06:18,000
thought were dead or so i mean it was it

176
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,560
was kind of it was it was a little bit

177
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,800
it was it's a little so boppery at times

178
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,319
but it worked out really well and so

179
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,080
we're coming out of that going to a tomb

180
00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:27,440
of annihilation you're looking okay how

181
00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,440
do i make this

182
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,400
the same flavor but with a completely

183
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,560
different

184
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,199
backdrop with a completely different

185
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,560
uh environment

186
00:06:34,199 --> 00:06:37,840
circumstances and so i had to write that

187
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,000
transition

188
00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:41,440
and by doing so i think it worked out

189
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,919
really well

190
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,639
but what ended up happening is um

191
00:06:43,919 --> 00:06:48,800
my players in general tend to

192
00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:50,560
latch onto the smallest things

193
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:53,039
and so if you're not prepared for that

194
00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,560
then it's if things fall flat so you

195
00:06:53,039 --> 00:06:56,479
know they always want to know an npc's

196
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,160
name or they always want to know this so

197
00:06:56,479 --> 00:07:00,319
they always want to they want i always

198
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,520
want to run out after the most mundane

199
00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:04,080
things that have nothing to do with the

200
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,240
adventure but from the role-playing uh

201
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,400
and fun side of it i i can't deny it

202
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,160
because i love it i think it's great but

203
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,520
then you have to you have to round you

204
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,960
have to reign them all back in and say

205
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,319
okay you're still

206
00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,240
you still have this main mission that

207
00:07:14,319 --> 00:07:19,599
you have to get to and so throughout

208
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,800
this process um they started in uh 2013

209
00:07:19,599 --> 00:07:22,560
we started

210
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,199
uh this group started playing none of us

211
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,360
are my husband and i play um and our

212
00:07:25,199 --> 00:07:29,120
friends in iowa play and they were in

213
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,360
for a weekend and so we played dnd all

214
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,400
weekend they loved it and

215
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,240
we

216
00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,160
kind of left it alone for a long time

217
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,599
and so over the last two or three years

218
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,599
we started playing again but we all play

219
00:07:37,599 --> 00:07:40,960
remotely so

220
00:07:39,599 --> 00:07:42,240
they really enjoyed their characters

221
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,560
they really enjoyed what we were doing

222
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:47,840
so i i had to go through and try and

223
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:51,080
keep that sentiment from 2013

224
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:54,160
uh and move it forward into the

225
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,520
2017-2018-2019 time frame and uh it's

226
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,479
been it's been really really interesting

227
00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,759
to watch

228
00:07:56,479 --> 00:07:58,720
but yeah so i mean now we're in

229
00:07:57,759 --> 00:08:00,960
charlotte completely different

230
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,879
environment completely different goal uh

231
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,879
and they've made a whole set of new

232
00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:07,120
friends they've made

233
00:08:04,879 --> 00:08:08,319
enemies of people who aren't really

234
00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,520
supposed to be enemies they just don't

235
00:08:08,319 --> 00:08:11,440
like them i mean it's just it's kind of

236
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,160
fun to watch and so i don't

237
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,800
stop them from doing that it's just i

238
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,400
become almost like a ring master at a

239
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,680
circus you know i'm just trying to keep

240
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,720
things directed

241
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,080
you know you can go ahead and do

242
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,360
whatever you want to do but there's

243
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,280
still an ultimate goal that you have to

244
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,280
get to so yeah i just kind of shuffle

245
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,879
them around but through that process i'm

246
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,240
amazed at what they've

247
00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:32,800
made me write

248
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:35,760
because it was so important to them

249
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,039
uh and so i've written pages of stuff i

250
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,360
mean i think the document that i have

251
00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:41,760
right now is like 200 pages of just

252
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,519
notes and things like that of npcs and

253
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,920
it's it's convoluted for me even i can't

254
00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:48,000
remember half these npcs

255
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,160
so um yeah so and that's that's really

256
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,720
where hooks do come in hooks come in to

257
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,560
either bring someone into the story or

258
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,839
to get them back on track

259
00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:56,959
and i think they're really important and

260
00:08:55,839 --> 00:08:58,320
it's really important the way that

261
00:08:56,959 --> 00:08:59,760
they're written because again if they're

262
00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,760
illogical

263
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,600
then all of a sudden we have

264
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,440
people not looking at their character

265
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,720
sheet and not listening anymore now

266
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,720
they're in their heads going wait that

267
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,000
doesn't make sense and that just for me

268
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,279
that just ruins that and you can see it

269
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,000
on their face when that happens it's

270
00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:15,040
like the the fantasy collapses and now

271
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,720
you have to

272
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,120
you know really tap dance to kind of get

273
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,000
them back on track so yeah yeah life if

274
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,839
some random person turns up to deliver a

275
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,360
message or something it's like how did

276
00:09:23,839 --> 00:09:26,640
you get here and what are you doing here

277
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,680
and where did you come from and then

278
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,279
something's like i just got on the ship

279
00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:32,880
and i said well can we get a ship and

280
00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:34,080
suddenly it's there's there's all these

281
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,240
you know they're looking behind the

282
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,399
screen almost in the end the house of

283
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,839
the like western set house is just

284
00:09:38,399 --> 00:09:42,000
falling over because all you've got is a

285
00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:44,959
front facade and suddenly it's like ah

286
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,800
okay yeah we're living in this

287
00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:48,240
mockery they they have they have a

288
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,000
character like that that kind of follows

289
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,800
them around and

290
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,640
it's an npc that was in um keep over

291
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,160
shadowfell and his name was splurg he's

292
00:09:54,640 --> 00:10:00,240
a goblin

293
00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:02,640
and he's supposed to be nobody but he um

294
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,680
he was helping them for a nefarious

295
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,519
reason

296
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,640
but he got stabbed in the back by

297
00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:08,480
somebody and all of a sudden one of the

298
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,079
characters goes over and grabs him to

299
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,160
keep him from dying and heals him and

300
00:10:10,079 --> 00:10:13,040
all of a sudden in my mind i'm going

301
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,320
you know

302
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,920
this guy has now indebted to them

303
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,399
forever so splurge has become a part of

304
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,399
the kind of a part of their party

305
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,640
and uh he shows up at the weirdest spots

306
00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:24,399
because he's a fun character to play um

307
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,839
he's a fun for me to play and right now

308
00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:29,120
he's with the

309
00:10:25,839 --> 00:10:31,920
bentiri who are notorious party animals

310
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,839
uh they're also very deadly in combat

311
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,320
and he shows up at random places in

312
00:10:33,839 --> 00:10:40,000
chult uh and he just showed up and there

313
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,000
was a level of what are you doing here

314
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,839
there is a backstory to that that i've

315
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,440
written where he's actually been tasked

316
00:10:43,839 --> 00:10:46,560
with following them to make sure they're

317
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,560
okay

318
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,880
because he's reporting back to a bigger

319
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:53,360
organization that they're part of so

320
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,680
he's been shadowing them since day one

321
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,760
and uh so when he when he shows up

322
00:10:55,680 --> 00:11:00,320
there's always that kind of head scratch

323
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,160
yeah but i always kind of end it with

324
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,000
you know i get around

325
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,000
yes uh you know whatever and i think the

326
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,760
last time through he was like hey you

327
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,880
know what i gotta keep i keep an eye on

328
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,600
you guys

329
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,200
and uh that kind of laid that

330
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,760
light bulb dimming moment where they're

331
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,120
like what the hell you know

332
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,480
so yeah it's always tap dancing

333
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,480
sometimes you know with this stuff so

334
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,480
yeah no i i have

335
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,800
they they have a goblin friend in my

336
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,399
game as well uh who they kind of

337
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,480
elevated to

338
00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:29,680
minor deity status in his community

339
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,040
because he was like the cool one that

340
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:32,399
got to speak to the adventurers and who

341
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,480
the adventurers gave him a big scar

342
00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:36,720
across his face and now he's like

343
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,720
you know all the rest think he's you

344
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,880
know the chosen one essentially

345
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,839
and they bumped him to him again

346
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,279
and from my point of view it was just a

347
00:11:43,839 --> 00:11:46,880
like let's bring back you know let's

348
00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:49,519
have a recurring npc wouldn't it be

349
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,480
funny if they bumped into him here and

350
00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:51,600
in my head i was like it kind of

351
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,440
logically makes sense because there's

352
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,320
some longer term plans i've got going so

353
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,720
i think

354
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,920
that'll make sense but then immediately

355
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,120
some of them were like what are the

356
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,040
chances

357
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,959
we don't trust you this is suspicious

358
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,480
why would we have just random

359
00:12:02,959 --> 00:12:06,399
just sometimes you just gotta take

360
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,399
things on face value guys

361
00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:10,320
yeah sometimes the cigar is just a cigar

362
00:12:08,399 --> 00:12:12,160
yes exactly

363
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,360
that's we i have i have a character in

364
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,880
uh

365
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,040
in the group right now her name is uh

366
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:20,480
she plays a character called indigo blue

367
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:23,360
but um she is notoriously

368
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:25,279
distrustful of everybody and immediately

369
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,760
it's like it's like her her distrust

370
00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:30,959
level is the default and you really have

371
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,320
to work hard to win her over and so

372
00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:33,839
while that can be fun to roleplay it

373
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,519
could be very frustrating as a dm when

374
00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:37,600
you're trying to slog through stuff it's

375
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:40,160
like okay i'm sorry i can't i'm not

376
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:43,040
going to pull my badge or my credentials

377
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:45,200
or you know please feel to you or kiss

378
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,279
your tootsies you know because you know

379
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,800
but it's it's one of those things where

380
00:12:47,279 --> 00:12:50,160
when you don't have things going on it's

381
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,040
a lot of fun to role play but sometimes

382
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,680
when you're trying to get through

383
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:56,399
content it can be a little bit of a slog

384
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:57,839
yeah i know that feeling all too well

385
00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:59,200
when after the session i've been like

386
00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:02,560
guys like

387
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,560
stop interrogating children

388
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,880
i guess that i guess there's

389
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,959
theoretically a slim chance they might

390
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,240
be assassins but

391
00:13:08,959 --> 00:13:11,440
like do you really want to live your

392
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,639
lives like

393
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,920
operating on them running down the

394
00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:15,279
street shaking every child by the

395
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,399
shoulders going who do you work yeah

396
00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:18,480
tell me who you are

397
00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:21,200
who do you work for

398
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,839
uh so yeah no i very much uh uh yeah i

399
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,120
feel empathize with that for sure

400
00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:26,480
one of the one of the interesting things

401
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,320
there that i wanted to pick up on that

402
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,480
you mentioned was one of the

403
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,600
interpretations of hooks you mentioned

404
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,880
was

405
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,920
bringing

406
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:39,600
players back you know more aligned with

407
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,279
some end goal right and they know that

408
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,279
it's less prominent that the kind of

409
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:44,639
schism between like railroading and not

410
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:47,040
railroading in

411
00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:49,360
linear campaigns and freeform campaigns

412
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,680
is less pronounced than maybe

413
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,199
pop culture would like you to think but

414
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:55,360
i imagine some people out there are

415
00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:58,160
probably thinking like why

416
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,839
the dm shouldn't do that the dm you know

417
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,600
the players want to go

418
00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:03,519
off the beaten course and we should just

419
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,040
let them so i wondered what your

420
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:07,519
thoughts are on that and then

421
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,519
specifically the use of hooks to

422
00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:10,800
in this case like bring them back you

423
00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:14,320
know point them in the right direction

424
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:16,240
as it were so um yeah i i actually am in

425
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,760
complete agreement of letting someone do

426
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,360
whatever they want to do i mean for

427
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,199
instance temple of elemental evil i

428
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,959
don't think i've ever played more than

429
00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:24,560
three or four levels like dungeon before

430
00:14:22,959 --> 00:14:25,760
the group just got bored and we just

431
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,760
bolted

432
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,279
now if a group is

433
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,600
struggling with content because the

434
00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:34,480
content is badly written

435
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,320
and and that is either through my

436
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,440
uh through my doing or through the

437
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:41,760
modules doing so for instance um to move

438
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,279
uh annihilation is is a great

439
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,680
it's a great framework but i feel like

440
00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:47,120
there are some there are a lot of fiddly

441
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,320
bits in there it's very games that

442
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,760
thrones you from the standpoint there

443
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,279
are a lot of names a lot of houses a lot

444
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,720
of this a lot of that

445
00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:54,880
and so i slimmed it down a little bit

446
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,360
just because i didn't want to have

447
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,800
to go through all of that

448
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,920
um i know that they weren't going to

449
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,639
enjoy that

450
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:04,160
uh and so i made it a little bit more

451
00:15:02,639 --> 00:15:06,240
streamlined so that way they didn't have

452
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:09,680
to know everything about everything and

453
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:11,600
things are divulged um when i use hooks

454
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,760
my hook is divulging a critical piece of

455
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,079
information that they may have missed

456
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,839
um so i mean as dms we've all done that

457
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:19,519
where we've had a you know there's a

458
00:15:17,839 --> 00:15:21,199
clue right here and you guys just walk

459
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:23,760
right past it or

460
00:15:21,199 --> 00:15:26,720
uh didn't think it was viable and so

461
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,959
there are times when i will use that as

462
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,000
a hook to reignite

463
00:15:28,959 --> 00:15:32,000
interest

464
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,759
um i'm not if you know as a matter of

465
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,680
fact one of the characters in in the

466
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:36,959
tomb of an inauguration group is like

467
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,720
one of the one of the hooks that i used

468
00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:41,199
was that his mom was actually suffering

469
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,120
from the the withering because she's

470
00:15:41,199 --> 00:15:45,759
next adventure and had been resurrected

471
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:48,800
and was kind of dwindling um as kind of

472
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:50,480
a hook and a motivation um to move on

473
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,920
this quickly because there's the one

474
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,720
thing i don't like about that module is

475
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,320
there's a timetable and it's unrealistic

476
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,560
when you're going through a basically

477
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,079
unexplored island so

478
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,880
i had to make some modifications there

479
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:02,880
but

480
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,959
as far as hooks go i use it you know

481
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,959
people are kind of off the beaten path

482
00:16:04,959 --> 00:16:08,000
and they're still in the module and they

483
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:09,360
still want to complete it but they're

484
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,120
just kind of lost

485
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,480
rather than wasting hours and making

486
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,560
people frustrated because they can't

487
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,920
figure something out i'll drop a

488
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,600
breadcrumb

489
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,720
uh and see if they pick up on it so

490
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,000
maybe less hook more breadcrumb yeah and

491
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,399
also you know there are times where

492
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,880
people misinterpret something and i

493
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:29,920
understand that it's okay to let

494
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,839
characters be characters but sometimes

495
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,680
you can see a greater good

496
00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:35,199
um that's going to come out of this and

497
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,360
you don't want them to give up that

498
00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:39,920
quickly so i use things to kind of

499
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,079
motivate them to keep going you know for

500
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,399
instance a tomb of annihilation has a

501
00:16:42,079 --> 00:16:46,240
bunch of um every everything at the end

502
00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:47,519
is all a puzzle of some sort and one of

503
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,680
the characters in general was getting

504
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:50,880
really frustrating it was it took them

505
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,120
several hours to get through some of

506
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,560
these temples with the with the

507
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,160
all the and it wasn't that they were

508
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,079
that far off

509
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,839
and so you know those bread crumbs are

510
00:16:58,079 --> 00:17:01,040
left so that way you know i don't want

511
00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:02,320
frustrated players we're all there to

512
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,720
have a good time

513
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,839
so i i know what they're on to i know

514
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:10,240
that they're close you know a well-timed

515
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:12,079
npc going hey what about this kind of

516
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,919
saves a group and it saves the adventure

517
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:16,000
because otherwise you end up with people

518
00:17:13,919 --> 00:17:17,679
who don't want to play anymore

519
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,319
and so i use these to kind of help

520
00:17:17,679 --> 00:17:21,760
massage the group into

521
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,039
a place where they feel like they're

522
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,520
really accomplishing something because

523
00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:27,520
they are i mean that this entire thing i

524
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,480
mean this entire adventure has been one

525
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,080
big

526
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,880
massive

527
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,559
campaign of just just jungle and all

528
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,080
those other stuff so i don't want them

529
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:37,919
to just give up

530
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,600
you know i mean and i don't want i don't

531
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:40,640
want the module to beat to beat it out

532
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,120
of them and that's what kind of this

533
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,880
module does it'll just beat you down

534
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:46,480
and so i've made modifications so that

535
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,400
way you know we don't get a chance to

536
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,400
play very often so the time that we get

537
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,840
to spend together i want to be enjoyable

538
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,520
mm-hmm you want to extract the most

539
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,039
value out of those couple of hours as

540
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,720
you can right without it i'm not real

541
00:17:55,039 --> 00:18:00,720
reading i'm i'm i'm fungi

542
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,880
you know i mean i'm trying to make sure

543
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,960
that everyone has a good time i i want

544
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,280
it it is challenging they've almost died

545
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,120
several times this next adventure that

546
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,200
they're going on this next little piece

547
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:13,039
is very dangerous and they're

548
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,280
really excited about doing it but it's

549
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:17,280
going to be it's going to be difficult

550
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,480
and if people die people die i mean

551
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,799
that's just kind of the way this is

552
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,400
going to run but um when this is all

553
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:23,760
over with we're transitioning to my

554
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,360
homebrew world

555
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,000
um and that's all being written right

556
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,360
now um and it's it's uh that's a whole

557
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,799
other thing but yeah and and that's

558
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:33,679
where more hooks are going to come in i

559
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:35,840
mean i i look at how how how are we

560
00:18:33,679 --> 00:18:37,200
going to build interest in doing what

561
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,720
needs to be done

562
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,559
to convert or make it logical um and so

563
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,360
there are things that i put out there

564
00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:45,120
that

565
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:46,720
may entice people to do certain things

566
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,160
you know so

567
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,840
no i think i think

568
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,080
that is

569
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,559
the the nuance there from a dms point of

570
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,280
view of knowing when is the right time

571
00:18:54,559 --> 00:19:00,720
to have those nudges and to have those

572
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,559
reminders and those breadcrumbs

573
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,280
that is the skill that is that that is

574
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:07,360
the hard thing to get experience in and

575
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,720
to learn when it's the good time to do

576
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,799
that like

577
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,240
it's it's the lesser evil now because

578
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:14,160
the bigger evil is my players are

579
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,840
disinterested and bored and they don't

580
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,080
know what's happening so it's actually a

581
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,280
lesser evil now to be like let me help

582
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,919
you get

583
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,679
back on track uh versus

584
00:19:21,919 --> 00:19:25,919
you know the the other extreme of being

585
00:19:23,679 --> 00:19:27,919
like no this npc won't talk to you

586
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:30,480
unless you ask the you know the specific

587
00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:32,320
questions yes and like i haven't there's

588
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,919
outside of going and getting the cat

589
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,440
down from the tree there's nothing else

590
00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:39,919
for you to do uh so yeah see like living

591
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,679
on that sliding scale as a dm which is

592
00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:43,440
which is it is you know moment to moment

593
00:19:41,679 --> 00:19:45,760
it's a sliding scale session to session

594
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,520
party to party i think that is the

595
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,720
that is hard

596
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,440
but where

597
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,480
where you get the good dm's is who can

598
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,080
who can

599
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,360
slide that scale in such a way that it

600
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,480
keeps everybody and even another level

601
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,080
on top

602
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,159
where that scale isn't visible to the

603
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,080
players and they can't tell where

604
00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:05,919
breadcrumbs have been dropped or whether

605
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,679
you know that brickron was there all day

606
00:20:05,919 --> 00:20:09,200
and it's been stale because it was there

607
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:10,000
from day one and

608
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,600
right

609
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,880
and then that is i mean i again you hit

610
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,720
the nail on the head

611
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,679
what what the with the deal with the dm

612
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,120
is to not let the party know that you're

613
00:20:17,679 --> 00:20:21,760
doing that that this has always been

614
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:24,720
there they just discovered it yeah um

615
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,400
and uh those and for if any of my

616
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,080
players are listening this happens

617
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,280
occasionally it's not all the time don't

618
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,280
get mad at me

619
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,880
um but i mean there there are moments

620
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,400
where i'm like okay they need a little

621
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,559
bit of a push or they needed this or

622
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,240
that you know and it's just and also you

623
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:39,919
have to look at it not everyone's on

624
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,640
every day you know it's like you know we

625
00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:42,080
we

626
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,400
we're all human beings when we're

627
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,480
playing some people have had a bad day

628
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,720
um you know you have to take the you

629
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,559
have to read the room on

630
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,600
some of this stuff and again that is

631
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:54,400
where that

632
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:56,799
massaging of the story and the players

633
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,679
comes in because you don't i've been

634
00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:01,679
adversely affected by negative

635
00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:03,600
attitudes when i dm

636
00:21:01,679 --> 00:21:05,360
and so it just kind of it kind of ruins

637
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,799
my experience too when people are

638
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,799
negative about something and i'm going

639
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:10,960
oh did i screw something up i mean

640
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:12,320
what's going on is this boring you know

641
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,280
it just turns out somebody's having a

642
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,720
bad day the key i think for any dm is to

643
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,240
realize you're not just dm'ing for them

644
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,840
you're dealing for the rest of the group

645
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,000
yeah so if they're having a bad day and

646
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:24,559
they're not having a good time then let

647
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,480
them not have a good time or don't focus

648
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:27,520
on that focus on the other people who

649
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,039
are having

650
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,960
a good time and who really want to play

651
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:32,720
i mean and it's it's through no fault of

652
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,880
anybody it's i mean i don't blame the

653
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,280
player because again we all have

654
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,720
you know bad days and and even though we

655
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,600
think we want to play we're just not

656
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,400
really into it and it stinks sometimes

657
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,320
but

658
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,600
i'm gonna tell you it's it's a fact of

659
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:49,919
life and um as a dm it's that's another

660
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,159
part of your job is to re read the room

661
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:53,280
and see how players are interacting and

662
00:21:52,159 --> 00:21:54,880
for those players who may not

663
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,120
necessarily be into it don't focus on

664
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,640
them yeah let's let them roll dice let

665
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:00,559
them kill stuff

666
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,080
don't force them to role play don't

667
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:04,240
force them to do anything don't force

668
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,320
them to interact that you know maybe all

669
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,960
they need to do or what they really need

670
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,880
is just to be in a room full of their

671
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,360
friends and just sit there and

672
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,400
laugh and they may not actually want the

673
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:16,559
full

674
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,480
dnd experience and so you kind of have

675
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:20,080
to move on from that and it it's it took

676
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,919
my husband telling me

677
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,480
several times because i've dm for

678
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:26,720
multiple multiple groups and idm for a

679
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,880
group that was uh eight or nine people

680
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,400
at one point and it was huge and there

681
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,880
were there were so many different

682
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,640
dynamics as far as personality goes it

683
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,320
really it threw me off it threw the rest

684
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,919
of the players off

685
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,480
it just it was kind of a shambles and

686
00:22:37,919 --> 00:22:42,559
again that's a job of a dm is to kind of

687
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,480
herd the cats you know get everybody

688
00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:46,720
back and whether it's the same and when

689
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,640
i say same page or the same path it's

690
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,240
not necessarily the same path as far as

691
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,440
let's get to this mission it's also the

692
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,080
same path

693
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,159
is are we having fun yeah you know

694
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,080
what's what can we do to make sure we're

695
00:22:56,159 --> 00:23:00,000
all having fun and sometimes there are

696
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,919
some people who just don't want to deal

697
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,600
with it but they want to be there

698
00:23:01,919 --> 00:23:05,919
either out of obligation or otherwise

699
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:09,039
and that's fine but i can't i've got to

700
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:11,280
realize that i can't let that ruin as

701
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:13,360
soon as the dm goes down the entire

702
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,400
party goes down yeah i mean

703
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:17,039
so

704
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,960
i know exactly what you mean uh with

705
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:21,200
regards to different players different

706
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,240
types and and being sat at the table for

707
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,320
different reasons and the vibe of

708
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,720
of who they are and very much like

709
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,880
if they've had a long day or a stressful

710
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,360
day or whatnot and they

711
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,679
they're they're coming very much to in

712
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:38,080
the most purest definition like a player

713
00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:39,679
game and not like i don't want to go on

714
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,440
a journey i don't want to have to deal

715
00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:42,400
with like moral quandaries i just kind

716
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,360
of want to

717
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,200
have

718
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:47,600
you know sword and board fantasy for a

719
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,039
couple of hours and um

720
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,720
and one of the i was out with a with a

721
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:53,120
few drinks with my players last night

722
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,960
actually and um who's i don't know i

723
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:56,240
just got to say like i just want to

724
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,440
firstly say you know thank you for

725
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,120
running the game everything you do

726
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,600
because the last couple of sessions i

727
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:03,679
want to apologize because i've just been

728
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,200
you know really quiet and i it might

729
00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:06,559
seem like i'm not into it but i want to

730
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,640
assure you that i absolutely am it's

731
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:11,520
just i was like man i get it

732
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,240
you you are up at like 5 a.m

733
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,679
and

734
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,520
you're on the road you know traveling

735
00:24:13,679 --> 00:24:18,880
for like three hours every day

736
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,320
i like that's totally fine it's i i know

737
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,919
and you i'm more than happy for you to

738
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,360
just sit back and listen

739
00:24:21,919 --> 00:24:25,200
and that and that's fine i'm just happy

740
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,559
that you turn up yes so that was very

741
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,400
nice to hear from it from a dm's point

742
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:29,600
of view uh and and i think it's always

743
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,440
it's always healthy to have those kind

744
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,279
of discussions and have you know if

745
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,960
you're fortunate enough like i am to

746
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:38,159
have those kind of players that are like

747
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:41,440
hey i value you but just to let you know

748
00:24:38,159 --> 00:24:43,279
i'm knackered so i might be uh

749
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,440
you know a bit a bit quieter

750
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:47,840
man dude that's totally fine and that's

751
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,840
and that's i i love when players do that

752
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,360
i mean it just it's

753
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,559
so you know everyone looks at the dm

754
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,720
like

755
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:57,279
i'm not sure how people perceive dms

756
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,679
when they're dming but um you know we're

757
00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:01,520
people we're characters we're we're

758
00:24:59,679 --> 00:25:03,360
playing characters we're with you we're

759
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,039
trying to have a good time too

760
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,400
and um you know i've had people come

761
00:25:05,039 --> 00:25:08,159
back and apologize and say hey you know

762
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,840
what i apologize last week i just wasn't

763
00:25:08,159 --> 00:25:12,080
into it and it's fine

764
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,960
here's the thing is it was my reaction

765
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,120
was not their fault that was my fault

766
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,640
um i'd let their their

767
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,679
whatever they were going through affect

768
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,840
me

769
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:23,600
and i can't you know and so i'm i'm

770
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,120
growing i'm learning i mean i've dm for

771
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,440
a very long time

772
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,039
but it's still one of those things where

773
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,320
you know you you're you feel like you're

774
00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:31,760
letting people down if they're not

775
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,159
having a good time and you have to

776
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,679
realize that it's not initially on you

777
00:25:34,159 --> 00:25:37,919
you know you're presenting the material

778
00:25:35,679 --> 00:25:39,600
and if people aren't if you know some

779
00:25:37,919 --> 00:25:41,360
people aren't enjoying it then you know

780
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,520
it's it's a bad day for them or they're

781
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:45,360
going through something or whatever but

782
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,000
my biggest my biggest takeaway from that

783
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,360
was don't punish the other players

784
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,640
you know make sure you're there and

785
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,480
you're present for the rest of the

786
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,720
players and you know just kind of ease

787
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,400
off whoever is not having a good time or

788
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,840
whoever may not necessarily be engaging

789
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,080
don't force them to engage when they

790
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,919
don't want to and there i can tell you

791
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,039
there are days where people are like i

792
00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:04,799
can see it in their eyes they're just

793
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:06,559
looking they're looking for a fight they

794
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:07,520
want some hack and slash combat they

795
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:08,640
don't want to have to worry about the

796
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,000
role play

797
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,799
my uh my adventures tend to get very

798
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,200
deep

799
00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:16,640
you know lots of emotions lots of

800
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,559
connections

801
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,159
and so that can be tiring and i get it

802
00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:21,039
especially when you have your own real

803
00:26:20,159 --> 00:26:22,720
life

804
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:24,480
with all those exact same things going

805
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,240
on it almost feels like a second family

806
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,720
and it's like uh i'm not ready for that

807
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,400
tonight you know so i get it yeah indeed

808
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,600
yeah and in the same way some people

809
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,790
need a break from their own actual

810
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,480
families so uh

811
00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:36,320
[Laughter]

812
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,360
well i have this other group where i and

813
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,840
i

814
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:41,679
they we have a group called um

815
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,600
the shifting table and these are all

816
00:26:41,679 --> 00:26:44,960
people i met on twitter and i was able

817
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,720
to wrote my husband in to come playing

818
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,960
because he wasn't initially interested

819
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,799
but we're doing um

820
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,400
a dungeon of the mad mage and so what

821
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:53,840
we're doing is called the shifting table

822
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,840
because we all

823
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,600
uh dm different levels

824
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,960
um and what i love about these guys is

825
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,799
these guys there's there's definitely

826
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,279
role play in there there's definitely

827
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:05,279
but i mean it's it's it's far more let's

828
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:06,720
get through this and kill some stuff and

829
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:08,720
it's kind of refreshing because i don't

830
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,400
really have to worry about it i just i

831
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,799
go in there i roll some dice i kill some

832
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,880
stuff we you know huzzah yeah we got

833
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:17,200
some magic items we're good and so it's

834
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,640
it's a different play style and um

835
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,039
that's the one thing i want anybody

836
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,880
who's listening just because you dm

837
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:24,480
differently does not make make it that

838
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,480
you dm wrong

839
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,559
um uh just because idm differently

840
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,799
doesn't make me wrong uh we all have our

841
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:32,320
own play styles based off of

842
00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:33,679
hopefully you're reading your own group

843
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,760
and playing off their strengths and

844
00:27:33,679 --> 00:27:37,200
weaknesses so what i'm saying here

845
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,720
hopefully is not offensive to anyone

846
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,240
because they don't agree with me but

847
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,919
just understand that i have a different

848
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,760
group and uh this is the way that we

849
00:27:41,919 --> 00:27:45,679
play and you know you have your group

850
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,720
and you play your way mm-hmm yeah

851
00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:50,080
absolutely um to bring us back to hooks

852
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,760
a little bit something we talked about

853
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,919
earlier on around those those

854
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,159
breadcrumbs and stuff and and i want to

855
00:27:53,919 --> 00:27:58,080
get your thoughts on how i ran

856
00:27:56,159 --> 00:27:59,919
something a little while ago uh in the

857
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,200
previous previous chapter of my campaign

858
00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:04,320
i have talked about it before on the

859
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,360
show where my players were

860
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,760
in

861
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:10,000
a valley that was

862
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,679
part of the lair the domain uh you know

863
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,520
including all the environmental effects

864
00:28:11,679 --> 00:28:15,440
of a green dragon so it was like a

865
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,840
labyrinthine forest a thick blanket of

866
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,960
fog very low visibility

867
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,640
you know the critters that were running

868
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,720
only small critters left because all the

869
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,080
larger creatures had been eaten and that

870
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,440
kind of stuff

871
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,720
and they'd come across an abandoned

872
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,679
camp

873
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:34,559
uh at the kind of uh the end of a river

874
00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:36,880
so a lake uh pooled into a small lake

875
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:38,480
banner camp they found a map

876
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,399
uh that was

877
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,840
admittedly this is a shortcoming on my

878
00:28:40,399 --> 00:28:46,720
part was it was very poorly drawn by me

879
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:49,440
did digitally um so perhaps that

880
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,600
uh exacerbated a few issues but broadly

881
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,799
there was a line of blue you know two

882
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,880
lines

883
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,480
to suggest that the boundaries of the

884
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,320
valley if you will you know before you

885
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,120
start hitting the steep incline of the

886
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:04,000
mountains on either side uh a

887
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,960
uh yeah blue line that ended in a big a

888
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,440
bigger blue circle which i'd hoped

889
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,399
implied that the presence of the lake

890
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,840
yep uh and then i think like a little

891
00:29:12,399 --> 00:29:16,080
bonfire sign or something and then

892
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,520
basically the other end so like the uh

893
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,399
the waterfall

894
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,520
of this river had a big red circle

895
00:29:20,399 --> 00:29:23,440
around it

896
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,520
so my intention was that the players

897
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,960
would go okay we're here

898
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,159
we're kind of on the trail of these

899
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,840
people anyway

900
00:29:28,159 --> 00:29:32,320
they've put a big red circle around here

901
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,120
presumably is their destination

902
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,919
let's follow the river

903
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,880
they

904
00:29:35,919 --> 00:29:39,279
got

905
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,360
in a complete twist of

906
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:42,880
you know directions cardinal directions

907
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,880
it was are we heading north east east

908
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,039
are we heading northwest east or you

909
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,799
know like you know south by southeast or

910
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,840
something like that and they get all up

911
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:51,679
in there well if that was there and

912
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,559
we've traveled here and this that and

913
00:29:51,679 --> 00:29:53,760
the other

914
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:55,120
and

915
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,760
i let them

916
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,679
get lost in game for like two hours

917
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,799
essentially and the reason i'm bringing

918
00:29:59,679 --> 00:30:02,880
this up is what you were talking about

919
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:04,240
earlier on like where trying to find

920
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,640
that line in the sand to be like okay

921
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,760
now enough is enough and they need they

922
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,000
need some help well actually there's

923
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,320
there's two solutions to this

924
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,760
one is i could have

925
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,399
reconfigured the

926
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,320
geography to have their destination be

927
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:20,320
somewhere else and

928
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,279
you know changed a few bits and bobs and

929
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:26,720
made it so hey you did go the right way

930
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:28,320
in the end congratulations or i

931
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,440
could have had some breadcrumb trails to

932
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,480
suggest they go back in the right

933
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,480
direction

934
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,760
what actually happened was

935
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,120
they i was like okay you walking that

936
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,200
way and it's you know it's hot it's

937
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,360
stifling it's you know you're cutting

938
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,200
your legs on bushes and branches

939
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,039
you walk and walk and walk like two

940
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,399
hours passes in game

941
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,440
you're still just at the bottom of the

942
00:30:44,399 --> 00:30:47,039
valley because they were they were

943
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,440
heading along the valley floor

944
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:51,520
essentially in the same direction and it

945
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,200
took them them until that point to be

946
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,960
like all right okay

947
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,519
maybe we've gone in the wrong direction

948
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,880
let's maybe look at the map again and

949
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:00,399
oh if that's the river then maybe we

950
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,480
should have followed the river and i was

951
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:03,679
like maybe i don't know

952
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,120
dude

953
00:31:03,679 --> 00:31:07,200
what are you going to do now

954
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,679
and so then to trek two hours back in

955
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,720
the other direction and uh

956
00:31:09,679 --> 00:31:13,440
and then eventually they followed the

957
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,600
river and they got to the end so now i

958
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,519
i'm like torn is that railroady direct

959
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,600
like the end of the river the waterfall

960
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:21,120
is like the only destination and and

961
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,279
they have to go there you know i'm not

962
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,640
sure which is the best what is the best

963
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:25,760
route when when you have that kind of

964
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,640
here's a hook

965
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,320
abandoned camp map to your destination

966
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,600
it's a yeah misinterpreted battery yeah

967
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,720
and it's just either misinterpreted or

968
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:37,360
not understood and do i you know is it

969
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,080
is it god forbid railroading if i had

970
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,600
put

971
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,279
their destination in the direction

972
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,799
they'd chosen to travel or is that is

973
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:43,919
that good because it stops them getting

974
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:47,200
lost or is that bad because it's

975
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:50,000
railroading like i don't i don't know

976
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,320
yeah that's a really tough one i mean i

977
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,799
i tend to um

978
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,039
i tend to try to avoid some of those

979
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:59,039
ambiguous situations so you know for me

980
00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:00,159
on the map i would have had

981
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:02,320
there's something there's something

982
00:32:00,159 --> 00:32:03,760
definitely recognizable that that tells

983
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,640
them that they're going the right way

984
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,840
okay

985
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,440
so that way you know if they're

986
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,640
traveling and they're looking at the map

987
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,799
and they're like we're supposed to go in

988
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,320
this direction but we're not seeing this

989
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:15,200
if they don't recognize what i put on

990
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:17,760
the map as as a potential marker then

991
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,559
it's on them but sometimes i'll do that

992
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,480
when

993
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:22,720
especially in this particular uh

994
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,240
adventure it's it's one big unexplored

995
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,000
four so everything pretty much looks the

996
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,519
same i mean it's four's four's four four

997
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,799
fours for as long as the i can see you

998
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,240
know

999
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:32,640
i would have possibly done that but i

1000
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,279
think you i mean how much real time did

1001
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:38,080
they spend farting around um

1002
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:40,559
i think if we include

1003
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,360
from basically finding the map to

1004
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:45,919
getting to the destination an hour

1005
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,320
uh which maybe would have been like

1006
00:32:45,919 --> 00:32:49,440
10 minutes had they just gone okay we

1007
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,720
need to follow the river and then i

1008
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,960
woulda gone you follow the river here's

1009
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,559
some narration here's what happens but

1010
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,399
instead of all the faffing around plus

1011
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:57,679
the narration of getting lost and coming

1012
00:32:56,399 --> 00:32:59,200
back and

1013
00:32:57,679 --> 00:33:01,360
when they returned to the camp there was

1014
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,720
a bit more so it was about an hour i

1015
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,200
would say

1016
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,159
quote unquote lost game time

1017
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,679
sure

1018
00:33:06,159 --> 00:33:09,120
yeah i mean i there are a couple

1019
00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:10,399
different ways that i i mean again

1020
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,640
putting a landmark on the map so that

1021
00:33:10,399 --> 00:33:14,159
way they kind of learn on their own or

1022
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,679
they don't that they're going in the

1023
00:33:14,159 --> 00:33:18,159
wrong direction

1024
00:33:15,679 --> 00:33:20,480
the other would be a

1025
00:33:18,159 --> 00:33:22,000
maybe a passive perception check that

1026
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,440
they see

1027
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,640
footprints leading off in the opposite

1028
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,720
direction

1029
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,039
as another way to kind of give them a

1030
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,720
little bit of a push yeah you know it

1031
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:33,200
just it could have gone either way but

1032
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,640
here's the thing is i mean and and i i

1033
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,760
think this is an interesting experience

1034
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,679
because when the next time they get a

1035
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,600
map they're going to think twice

1036
00:33:37,679 --> 00:33:41,519
or they won't

1037
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,200
so it's like it's like either either

1038
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:44,399
they've learned from their mistakes as

1039
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,240
as players

1040
00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:48,640
um and said hey let's really kind of

1041
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,399
evaluate this and and look at it more or

1042
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,720
we're going to waste more time

1043
00:33:50,399 --> 00:33:54,080
or they're going to get a map and go ah

1044
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,440
screw that i don't even want to look at

1045
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,919
the map the last time we used this thing

1046
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,679
we got lost i forgot it you know

1047
00:33:57,919 --> 00:34:01,519
but it again you have to kind of read

1048
00:33:59,679 --> 00:34:03,840
your players but yeah you can

1049
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:06,320
i think you handle it just fine okay

1050
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,079
that's that's reassuring and in terms of

1051
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,679
having them learn that lesson i think

1052
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:11,919
one of the one of the um

1053
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:13,520
gimmicks of dragons maybe adult green

1054
00:34:11,919 --> 00:34:15,119
dragons specifically i'm not sure but

1055
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,079
they can basically like use the critters

1056
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:18,000
of the

1057
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:20,879
the uh the senses of the critters in

1058
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,800
their domain as their eyes and ears so i

1059
00:34:20,879 --> 00:34:24,159
i had foreshadowed that quite heavily in

1060
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,599
a number of instances up until that

1061
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:27,200
point of being like it feels like you're

1062
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:29,359
being watched and for some reason like

1063
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,800
the rats will run by and like stop and

1064
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:32,320
stare at you for half an hour before

1065
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,560
running off again

1066
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,159
so i was like yeah it feels they're

1067
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,079
weird like the insects don't seem too

1068
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:39,280
scared of you they just seem to linger

1069
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:41,040
around

1070
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,119
so it foreshadowed that something wasn't

1071
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,280
quite right there and when they

1072
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:47,040
eventually met the green dragon uh who

1073
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,919
was in like polymorph themselves that

1074
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,720
body shaped into humanoid form

1075
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:53,520
and

1076
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:55,440
it's a an evil dragon right who loves to

1077
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,720
manipulate and

1078
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,720
you know

1079
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:00,480
annoy other humanoid creatures that he

1080
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,760
was like oh yeah i loved when you got

1081
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,880
lost for two hours that was great to

1082
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,920
watch like you guys are dumb idiots

1083
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,079
[Laughter]

1084
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,280
right that's it and that's all i mean

1085
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:11,440
there are times where you want to poke

1086
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,760
the bear a little bit yeah yeah yeah you

1087
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,920
know it it it furthers a story from the

1088
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,480
standpoint but build some animosity yes

1089
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,560
exactly yes yeah that that was

1090
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,160
i wanted to go for like

1091
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,680
this guy's been watching you the whole

1092
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,359
time you know nothing you've said has

1093
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,599
been secret including all the times you

1094
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:29,680
were debating how to kill a dragon

1095
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:32,560
like he knows

1096
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:36,000
he knows absolutely everything including

1097
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,119
your even silly points when you got lost

1098
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,119
um

1099
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:40,560
and that really over egg like

1100
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:41,920
at any point he could have just come

1101
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,280
down and like

1102
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,119
stomped on you

1103
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,000
and like he's you know he's allowed you

1104
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:49,599
to roam free in his his domain thing so

1105
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,800
that was what i was going through

1106
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:53,359
yeah i mean there's some cool things

1107
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,520
there i mean we have um

1108
00:35:53,359 --> 00:35:57,280
so uh one of the characters that's uh in

1109
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,280
the current adventure is just

1110
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,520
trustworthy of everybody yeah which is

1111
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,880
fine but i kind of build for that but um

1112
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:07,839
they stayed at an inn in chult uh and

1113
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,680
the owners turns out the owners have ins

1114
00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:12,960
in uh all over

1115
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,560
feyrun um and one of them is in her

1116
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,400
hometown and it turns out that that's

1117
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,480
her parents business as well so it turns

1118
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,400
out they're competitors

1119
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,400
and uh so she immediately distrusts

1120
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,359
everybody hates everybody

1121
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,520
well

1122
00:36:23,359 --> 00:36:26,640
fast forward i don't know four or five

1123
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,720
days later

1124
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,160
they are ambushed by somebody and

1125
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,280
they're like how'd they know where we

1126
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,040
were that and

1127
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,720
they find this note

1128
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,200
it's a cryptic note and it has these

1129
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:38,800
initials on it and um they couldn't

1130
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,400
really figure out who it was

1131
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,920
and it turns out it's this innkeeper's

1132
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,040
daughter who's actually kind of working

1133
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,480
for

1134
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:50,000
the big bad evil guy um who is kind of a

1135
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:52,240
mole for for them and um they i and i i

1136
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:55,200
was like okay well you know and she

1137
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:56,960
immediately went to this woman and said

1138
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,119
or is she that's immediately what

1139
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,960
happened was she was like it's her i

1140
00:36:59,119 --> 00:37:02,560
know she's she's spying on us i know it

1141
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,400
i know i don't know it but she didn't

1142
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,480
know what her last name was

1143
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,920
and so the initials didn't quite line up

1144
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,200
and she didn't really know that the

1145
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,920
spelling of her name which didn't kind

1146
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,920
of line up with the you know so it was

1147
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,359
this whole funny thing where she's she's

1148
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,000
totally right

1149
00:37:15,359 --> 00:37:19,359
but um you know it's not for the right

1150
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,599
reasons just because she doesn't like

1151
00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:22,880
her you know so

1152
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:24,480
i don't know how you got there but you

1153
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,320
got the right answer

1154
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,079
absolutely right right and that's the

1155
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,680
fun part is when people are just and

1156
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:31,119
that's that's where you know when you

1157
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,599
start talking about hooks hooks can

1158
00:37:31,119 --> 00:37:36,320
easily turn into tropes right yes

1159
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:38,000
so um and when things get tropy then all

1160
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,920
of a sudden it's like okay

1161
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,079
so this guy is working for this guy and

1162
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,520
all of a sudden they unravel it and

1163
00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:45,359
then you're looking at going okay do i

1164
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,680
rewrite this so it's more interesting or

1165
00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:49,200
do i just uh you know at the end affirm

1166
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,280
that yes apparently this is one big

1167
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,960
trope that you guys figured out i mean

1168
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,000
and and sometimes through no fault of my

1169
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,760
own it's just the way some of these

1170
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,280
modules are written it's like okay you

1171
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,800
it's kind of like knowing who the killer

1172
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,599
is at the beginning of a mystery novel

1173
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,800
yeah

1174
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:02,720
you know it's like

1175
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,079
oh well so i always try and throw

1176
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,520
something in there to spice it up so

1177
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:08,480
they're not i don't i don't let them be

1178
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,079
completely right because uh that's

1179
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,520
asinine i wouldn't

1180
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:13,200
players are never completely right they

1181
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,320
can't be because then they're then

1182
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,480
they're gods

1183
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,000
yeah i have to i have to throw them off

1184
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,280
with just a little something a little

1185
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,880
twist at the end where they're like oh

1186
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,920
i'm still surprised because otherwise if

1187
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,500
they figure it out from the beginning

1188
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,809
it's like why bother

1189
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:27,809
[Music]

1190
00:38:30,370 --> 00:38:34,800
[Music]

1191
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,800
that's something something i wanted to

1192
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,800
add on to there and we've talked about

1193
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,320
it a lot and i really just wanted to put

1194
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,040
like a bookend on it

1195
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,960
sure

1196
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,240
in preparation for this i i you know i

1197
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,400
googled

1198
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,400
plot hugs essentially and one of the

1199
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,839
definitions that came up and for once in

1200
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,520
this podcasting career i actually

1201
00:38:49,839 --> 00:38:53,760
bothered to keep a reference so i can

1202
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,960
cite this source in the show notes so go

1203
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,920
me um

1204
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,079
but uh it was a they're defined as a

1205
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,280
strong motivation to pursue a course of

1206
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:03,280
action that furthers the plot or

1207
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,599
enriches the narrative but the point i'm

1208
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,839
getting at is that to quote strong

1209
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:08,720
motivation we've said it before i say it

1210
00:39:07,839 --> 00:39:10,000
again

1211
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:11,920
differs

1212
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,960
almost moment to moment

1213
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,200
but

1214
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,560
obviously an absolutely game to game

1215
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,400
obviously and absolutely play as a

1216
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,839
character to play a character but also

1217
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,599
moment to moment

1218
00:39:19,839 --> 00:39:22,720
and that's why i you know it's it's i

1219
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:24,400
find it

1220
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:26,480
ironic or funny in a way where you can

1221
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:29,359
have you know his 50 plot hooks to get

1222
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,599
your players invested but you you always

1223
00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:33,040
you're gonna have to vet those and take

1224
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:35,680
them with a pinch of salt and modify

1225
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:38,079
them because the cat stuck up a tree you

1226
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:42,079
might have players who don't

1227
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:45,200
like okay i don't care yeah i hate cats

1228
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:46,320
with a cat hating gang so uh

1229
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,400
like

1230
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,920
and it might not it'll just fall flat

1231
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,240
and it won't work as

1232
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,920
as this kind of literary tool that you

1233
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,280
you're trying to use it as so

1234
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,400
it is

1235
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,079
very important

1236
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,839
i would say hooks

1237
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:01,680
and then obviously the preceding plot

1238
00:39:59,839 --> 00:40:02,800
line that is attached to that hook have

1239
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,960
to be

1240
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,880
almost have to be tailored to the pie i

1241
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,079
think yeah they have to to your point

1242
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,359
they have to be tailored to the party

1243
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:11,760
tailored to the player tailored to the

1244
00:40:09,359 --> 00:40:13,520
moment um and and just just to make sure

1245
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,920
i don't get any hate on here i love cats

1246
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,599
i was speaking of that as a player

1247
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,800
four of them on my own

1248
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:22,720
plea please don't send me hate man

1249
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,280
but yeah you're exactly right i mean i

1250
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:26,640
think i think that's where um

1251
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,880
you know when you when you think about

1252
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,640
dming it's very much a tap dance so it's

1253
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,359
you're you're trying to

1254
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,200
take into account everyone's mental

1255
00:40:33,359 --> 00:40:36,880
state at the time of the session you're

1256
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,839
trying to take into

1257
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,880
account what the actual uh storyline is

1258
00:40:39,839 --> 00:40:42,880
and what they're trying to produce

1259
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,079
you're also trying to take into

1260
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,319
you know what the play style is um and

1261
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:51,520
so it's kind of like a chess game and i

1262
00:40:48,319 --> 00:40:53,440
used two years ago i would have outlines

1263
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,119
and flow charts and everything so if

1264
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,960
they don't do this then this happens or

1265
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:58,480
they do this or and i've realized that

1266
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,480
it's just for some people that problem

1267
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,599
that may work i don't know but i feel

1268
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,880
like impro

1269
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:07,680
improvisation is really a dm skill

1270
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,680
and being able to improv logically and

1271
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,560
to bring up logic again is really going

1272
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,319
to be

1273
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:15,200
it's important and i believe i've

1274
00:41:12,319 --> 00:41:16,800
tripped uh over my own words

1275
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,560
more times than i can count trying to do

1276
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,640
that but sometimes it works out really

1277
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,760
well sometimes it's a little you know

1278
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,960
cringe-worthy but um you know it's

1279
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,079
it's one of those skills that you need

1280
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,839
to have in your tool belt if you're

1281
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:30,400
going to dm is to be able to think on

1282
00:41:27,839 --> 00:41:32,079
your feet because if you can't deviate

1283
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,440
from the logical path that you've laid

1284
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:34,800
out then it's going to be a very

1285
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,280
difficult

1286
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,280
uh ride for you yeah as a whole so i

1287
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,040
think i think improvisation and that's

1288
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,800
where hooks so improvised hooks how

1289
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,560
about that okay thank you for that

1290
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,319
segway

1291
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,680
and i can't say

1292
00:41:46,319 --> 00:41:53,119
um yeah i here's where i get well

1293
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,400
scared about my campaign and i i wake up

1294
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:55,520
in a cold sweat in the middle of the

1295
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,200
night and go

1296
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,640
oh my god

1297
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,599
is my campaign completely linear

1298
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,200
railroad and i get like i'm like no no

1299
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:05,440
surely surely not or maybe it is but

1300
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,520
they can't tell it is i don't know

1301
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,560
because i've thought before like

1302
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,800
i think i've asked a question to a

1303
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,400
previous guest to be like should i be

1304
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,599
providing

1305
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,040
regular improvised hooks of like

1306
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:19,520
there's a

1307
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,119
dinosaur running through the streets or

1308
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,880
and you know why is that here or there's

1309
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,680
you know some some

1310
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,760
uh

1311
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,520
you know what's the word but someone

1312
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,359
who's gonna fund the party you know like

1313
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,440
says oh i'll go and find this magical

1314
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:33,440
thing for me and i'll pay you 2 000 gold

1315
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,240
like should i be doing

1316
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,200
that

1317
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:36,079
because i

1318
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,560
don't

1319
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:42,079
really i hope that hasn't ever someone's

1320
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,760
i can hear the gasps of my listeners

1321
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:44,800
from here oh my god uh we've been

1322
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,599
listening to this guy and he doesn't

1323
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,920
even do that uh but i i

1324
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:53,040
i just don't know i i can't i don't i

1325
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:55,200
for whatever reason i'm not good at but

1326
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,400
guess saying like a side quest shall we

1327
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,480
say i i

1328
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,480
i improvise for sure and i agree

1329
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:03,920
completely that it's a it is very much a

1330
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:06,480
muscle that you need to practice and

1331
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,839
you can visibly get better at it like

1332
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,000
markedly

1333
00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:13,119
get better at improvising but in terms

1334
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,760
of like his uh here's a sidequest plot

1335
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:18,160
hook for today's session is not

1336
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,000
something that i do

1337
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,240
at all

1338
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:26,160
yeah i i get what you're saying and i i

1339
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:28,560
would say um it's not something that i

1340
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,839
pull a lot like i kind of have a couple

1341
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,119
things kind of sitting on the side

1342
00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:32,560
prepared

1343
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:34,960
so if they want to do something then i

1344
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:38,079
have kind of a loose outline of okie or

1345
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:40,240
going after a lesser big evil guy for

1346
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:42,240
something if if they decide they want to

1347
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:44,160
you know poke their nose into things

1348
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:45,440
i think what's interesting is because as

1349
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,319
i mentioned earlier that they're very

1350
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,480
much into npcs and getting npcs names

1351
00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:52,160
and knowing more more about them

1352
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,680
a lot of times you know i'll i'll give

1353
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,760
them a clue that these people don't

1354
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:58,480
really mean anything by giving them

1355
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:00,240
like for instance the battery that uh

1356
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,960
splurge hangs out with their their names

1357
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:05,680
are mop flop and slop yep i mean it took

1358
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,200
no care and creating them no mental

1359
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,440
overhead

1360
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,960
right exactly it's and so it's very much

1361
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,880
you know i used to have a dm that would

1362
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,319
just tap his 20s i had on the table if

1363
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,520
you're doing checks so let you know

1364
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:17,520
don't bother because there's nothing

1365
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,040
there oh okay and that is in further

1366
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,800
advancement of the story right you want

1367
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,160
to kind of

1368
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,359
when you're dealing with a group of

1369
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,960
people everyone has their own

1370
00:44:23,359 --> 00:44:26,160
motivations and their own speed in which

1371
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,440
they want to go

1372
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,040
and so what you're going to find is

1373
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,000
there tends to be dominant people within

1374
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,240
that group who tend to help guide or

1375
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,240
railroad the group or whatever and so

1376
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:37,599
sometimes that can get a little annoying

1377
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:39,200
when people are like well i want to go

1378
00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,720
and do this and i want to go well okay

1379
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,800
you can do that after i get done with

1380
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:44,640
talking with everybody else

1381
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,000
um and so that's where those side quests

1382
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,280
come in so it's like people will go

1383
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,079
through and they'll talk to everybody

1384
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,520
and

1385
00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:52,400
if they have an interesting synergy for

1386
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:54,720
some reason these guys there's a sausage

1387
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,079
cart that's in chult which i had to make

1388
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,079
up because they were like who are these

1389
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:59,280
guys and i gave them a non-flattering

1390
00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:01,280
name

1391
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,240
um which i can't say on the air but they

1392
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,240
um

1393
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:05,599
they uh for some reason are enamored

1394
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:06,880
with these guys

1395
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:08,400
i mean like they love them they all

1396
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,880
whenever they go by they always get

1397
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,720
sausages and stuff like that so in my in

1398
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,800
my in my mind i'm like okay you know

1399
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:17,359
this might be an interesting

1400
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,400
uh setup for a side quest like hey you

1401
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:19,680
know what we're

1402
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,880
we've ran out of the sausage that you

1403
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,119
really like but we're having a really

1404
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,880
hard time getting in this area and you

1405
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:26,880
guys seem like you're pretty

1406
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,880
well versed in in the four and you know

1407
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,240
the jungle can you go and grab us on

1408
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,599
this we'll pay you handsomely and make

1409
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,960
you some sausage

1410
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:35,119
and you know that could be something

1411
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,240
that's super easy to do

1412
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:38,400
you don't have to worry about battle

1413
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,920
maps and all this other stuff it's it's

1414
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,160
but the thing is now that they're

1415
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,000
connected with these npcs

1416
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,599
it's like okay yeah these are these are

1417
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,200
our friends we want to do this you know

1418
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:48,160
so i'm not asking to do it i'm just

1419
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,280
saying hey

1420
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,640
these are people that you apparently

1421
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,880
care about do you care about them enough

1422
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,640
to go and do something for them

1423
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,400
you know so those types of little side

1424
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,400
quests uh come up there there was

1425
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,720
another one with uh

1426
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,800
one of the crown prince's uh nieces or

1427
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:04,000
whatever ends up ends up somewhere where

1428
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,960
she shouldn't be

1429
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,640
um and uh breadcrumbs led them down in

1430
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,640
that direction and you know they kind of

1431
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,240
saved her but in the process made

1432
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,480
friends with her mother who happens to

1433
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:15,760
be very powerful as well so you know

1434
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,680
there's all sorts of little things that

1435
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,200
you can do to to give people a break for

1436
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,160
the main storyline if people feel like

1437
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,200
they need maybe they need to be

1438
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,720
re-energized or they want to do some rp

1439
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,560
you know i mean and there are there are

1440
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:28,960
moments where you know we played entire

1441
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,359
sessions and not rolled an entire diet

1442
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,520
like outside of role play for like you

1443
00:46:31,359 --> 00:46:34,960
know persuasion or whatever and there

1444
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,800
are nights where it's like that's where

1445
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,400
people want to be and so again it's it's

1446
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,640
you got to read your group you know i

1447
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,920
mean if if people really want to rp or

1448
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,839
they saw something and they really want

1449
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,640
to investigate it not everything's a

1450
00:46:43,839 --> 00:46:46,800
fight

1451
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,960
you know it could be more uh

1452
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,880
socio-economic it could be more uh

1453
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,200
intrigue maybe it's some romance you

1454
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,440
know and so trying to figure out what

1455
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:58,000
works best with the group is is you know

1456
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,359
again par part part and parcel with the

1457
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,680
emmings

1458
00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:04,000
in days yeah so i i i want to tell you

1459
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,079
this right now you're doing fine

1460
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,240
okay and i understand you you're worried

1461
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:10,400
about railroading and things like that

1462
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:12,960
you know if if the plot that you're on

1463
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,720
is linear well obviously if you if you

1464
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,240
look at it there it's going to be there

1465
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,680
are going to be a branches but they're

1466
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:20,960
all probably going to end up being the

1467
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,559
same motivation eventually um and so let

1468
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,319
them go off and do some exploration

1469
00:47:22,559 --> 00:47:26,880
stuff like that and if you need to you

1470
00:47:24,319 --> 00:47:28,720
know gently bump them that direction

1471
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,920
like give them another break from um all

1472
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,599
of a sudden there's a rumor about the

1473
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,839
green dragon again and then maybe it

1474
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:35,920
sparks some interest and they go back uh

1475
00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:37,680
don't don't make it obvious where you

1476
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,880
know while we went south when we should

1477
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,040
have gone north and we ran into the

1478
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,280
dragon anyway that's that's railroading

1479
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,359
yes yeah yeah i know that

1480
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,839
that stuff i'm also quite

1481
00:47:45,359 --> 00:47:50,400
hyper aware of i exist in this weird

1482
00:47:47,839 --> 00:47:52,960
duality of having this you know this big

1483
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,880
arcing story laid out but then also very

1484
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,960
aware and that that's that's probably

1485
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,000
why i didn't want to move

1486
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,079
the

1487
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,359
the the destination in the in the forest

1488
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:03,200
to where they were going because to me

1489
00:48:01,359 --> 00:48:04,960
that was the same of being like

1490
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,680
you hear a dragon to the east well we go

1491
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:11,440
west okay we bump into a dragon to me

1492
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:13,119
that was at the time was the same like

1493
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,640
so that's why i really wanted to be like

1494
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:15,760
no i can't do that because that then

1495
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,920
that will be railroading if they

1496
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,760
continue to walk north you know the

1497
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,200
wrong direction for the next 10 days

1498
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,200
well then

1499
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,119
they walk north for the next 10 days

1500
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,160
because otherwise i'm being royal roadie

1501
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:28,000
but then that's it it's that fine

1502
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,640
balance as you said earlier on like but

1503
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,079
that's not fun like not you know walking

1504
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,000
the wrong direction for 10 days is not

1505
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:35,040
fun

1506
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,640
i mean

1507
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,559
and but it's it's kind of your job to

1508
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,000
make it fun yeah so yeah you know

1509
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:42,880
throughout the travels maybe they meet

1510
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:45,040
some people uh maybe uh they're people

1511
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,800
out there camping maybe they've oh we

1512
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,559
saw some stuff happening back the other

1513
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,200
direction i mean there are ways to kind

1514
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:51,440
of

1515
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,720
a introduce some role play into it maybe

1516
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,640
they have to they have to gain the

1517
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,400
confidence of the people they run into

1518
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,440
for them to divulge the information that

1519
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,839
they have

1520
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,640
um you know it's there are ways to do it

1521
00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:04,400
but i travel could be a lot of fun if if

1522
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,760
it's done right and normally i don't do

1523
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,079
it right half the time either i just

1524
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,599
kind of skip through it yeah because

1525
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:12,319
um there are things that i don't deal

1526
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:15,119
with in in d uh one of those is uh

1527
00:49:12,319 --> 00:49:17,359
alignment yeah i'm not a huge layman fan

1528
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:20,960
likewise i don't think it's uh

1529
00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:23,599
an accurate depiction of a person a

1530
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:26,319
conscious living changeable hum but

1531
00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:27,920
humanoid person yeah sure right well and

1532
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:29,040
and so here here's a good topic that i

1533
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,000
kind of wanted to talk to you about

1534
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:35,680
early on was um so this is kind of like

1535
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:38,160
the the the rebirth of d d as a whole

1536
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,920
uh especially with 5e but one of the

1537
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,240
things i love is

1538
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,839
goblins you're you're not killing

1539
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:46,079
immediately when you see him or you're

1540
00:49:43,839 --> 00:49:47,599
not killing it when back when i started

1541
00:49:46,079 --> 00:49:50,000
playing in first edition and actually

1542
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:51,359
red box those people were definitely

1543
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,599
evil

1544
00:49:51,359 --> 00:49:54,960
they were they were worthy of death you

1545
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:57,280
know i mean that's what you did you went

1546
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,520
and you killed them um but now you have

1547
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:02,319
playable races who are cobalts and so i

1548
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:04,800
i imagine this being a much more diverse

1549
00:50:02,319 --> 00:50:06,880
universe yeah as far as um

1550
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,640
where alignments really don't come into

1551
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,640
i think it's how people

1552
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,400
well it's more like how people treat you

1553
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,480
and what what did they do and things

1554
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,240
like that so alignment for me gets a

1555
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,160
little muddied because

1556
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,760
we're all none of us are pure evil none

1557
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:22,000
of us are pure good

1558
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,559
there's there's it's a whole shade of

1559
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,240
gray in there and that's a whole other

1560
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:27,920
whole podcast but

1561
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,400
um but that was the thing is like what i

1562
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,079
what i love is the fact that splurge is

1563
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,400
one of their friends who's a goblin they

1564
00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:35,680
have you know so and so and so and so

1565
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,960
and all these other and it's a very

1566
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:41,359
diverse community um that is around the

1567
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,359
group and supports the group and so when

1568
00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:45,760
they go into combat

1569
00:50:43,359 --> 00:50:47,520
they are always thinking like hey

1570
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,400
these guys may not be evil why are we

1571
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,400
attacking them so i i like that aspect

1572
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,640
of where dnd is going

1573
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:57,280
yes yeah plus black and white yeah no i

1574
00:50:54,640 --> 00:51:00,240
completely agree i've basically issued

1575
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,200
any alignment stuff from from day one

1576
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:04,640
doesn't really

1577
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:06,400
have any bearing on anything i do uh

1578
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,640
but then i uh

1579
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,240
i think i said in my little my primer

1580
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,680
notes the campaign i've said like no one

1581
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:13,599
is ever truly good in the same way no

1582
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,440
one has ever truly

1583
00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:16,880
very few people are truly evil there's

1584
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,839
there's often shades of grey that need

1585
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,680
to be investigated uh along the way but

1586
00:51:19,839 --> 00:51:23,200
uh to loot back onto hooks for just a

1587
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,720
moment um

1588
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,800
i'm regarding my players specifically

1589
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,640
they are another problem i have

1590
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,559
that's not really a problem it's a bad

1591
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,400
bad analogy wrong wrong use of words

1592
00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:34,720
another interesting thing that happens

1593
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,839
with my players is that um

1594
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:38,079
i've said it before on the show that

1595
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:39,520
they're very focused on the main the

1596
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:41,520
main quest

1597
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,119
uh and like you said a couple of the

1598
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,960
more dominant people who are like let's

1599
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:46,400
move the story forward

1600
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,440
very much like main quest main quest

1601
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:51,520
main quest someone some big bad is doing

1602
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:54,160
something somewhere and we need to

1603
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:56,240
stop that from happening so any other

1604
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,400
little side quest things that do that

1605
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:00,400
maybe do come up that i've either

1606
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:03,119
planned or improvised

1607
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,559
are often like we don't have time we

1608
00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:06,800
shouldn't look into it they're a shoe

1609
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:09,440
yeah yeah and i'm like oh man oh this

1610
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,119
this was gonna this was gonna be a goofy

1611
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,200
social encounter you know this is gonna

1612
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:15,520
be your goofy side quest to do this that

1613
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,880
and the other so i think uh as it's

1614
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,319
coming up to a time of recording it's

1615
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,720
coming up to christmas and new year's

1616
00:52:18,319 --> 00:52:21,599
holidays and i'm planning to have you

1617
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:23,520
know a couple of weeks off probably

1618
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:24,559
about a month of dming and i think when

1619
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,760
i come back one of the things i'm going

1620
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:27,280
to say is like

1621
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,359
guys i might have over egged the

1622
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,280
existential threat just a little bit

1623
00:52:29,359 --> 00:52:33,440
feel free to take your foot off the gas

1624
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,839
if you wish to indulge in

1625
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,599
your backstories or other

1626
00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:39,599
interesting things that might be

1627
00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:41,280
happening but i would encourage you to

1628
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:43,359
do so because

1629
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,359
they will be interesting for you

1630
00:52:43,359 --> 00:52:46,720
i don't know how to tell them

1631
00:52:45,359 --> 00:52:49,119
i've got all this cool stuff set up

1632
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:51,280
which is of course that the dm's dilemma

1633
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:52,559
from is is being like i've got all this

1634
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,040
awesome stuff but i can't tell anyone

1635
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:56,400
about it but uh so dan that that that's

1636
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,440
where the that's where hooks come in

1637
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:01,040
right

1638
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,319
so um rather rather than kind of um

1639
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,079
why buy the cow when you get the milk

1640
00:53:02,319 --> 00:53:07,599
for free

1641
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:10,000
so um so from that standpoint uh

1642
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:12,000
getting them invested in something um an

1643
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:15,520
interesting mpc that they meet that they

1644
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:17,520
build a bond with and it's again

1645
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:20,000
some of this is saccharin you know it's

1646
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,599
very sugary sweet stuff um i use kids a

1647
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,599
lot because kids are adorable and i play

1648
00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:25,119
kids really well so all of a sudden like

1649
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:29,280
they're all about the kids

1650
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:31,040
um but some way that they they cannot

1651
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,400
they cannot take notice now they can

1652
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,480
avoid it if they want to but they're

1653
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:37,520
terrible people if they do

1654
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:39,040
you know um but i i've used that in the

1655
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,000
past to kind of guide people like you

1656
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:43,040
know

1657
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:45,040
um or or they they've i i will play an

1658
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,280
npc so that way they do become friends

1659
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,960
with them and then that can be used as a

1660
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,480
hook to drive them

1661
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,720
into something else to help something

1662
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,400
out so for instance right now

1663
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:57,440
uh hopefully this doesn't error anytime

1664
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,240
soon but um

1665
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,720
uh

1666
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:02,319
so right now they uh my characters have

1667
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:04,160
met actually it was supposed to be

1668
00:54:02,319 --> 00:54:06,960
somebody who's gonna kill them

1669
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,520
uh and uh they somehow

1670
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,920
got on his good side and now he's giving

1671
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,760
them kind of some good stuff that they

1672
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,160
they need to kind of move along

1673
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,720
but one of the things is you know he's

1674
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:20,160
basically an old tabaxi who's getting

1675
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:22,160
close to the end of his life and he

1676
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,160
wants to defeat this one monster before

1677
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,400
he goes and no and he wants to he wants

1678
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,680
to die while he's defeating this monster

1679
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,359
as revenge for his uh dead wife uh

1680
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,640
and um

1681
00:54:31,359 --> 00:54:34,240
through that process now they've been

1682
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,599
highly motivated to go and deal with

1683
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:40,559
this really dangerous creature but it's

1684
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:42,400
because that is in in the backstory that

1685
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:43,760
is his motivation as he wants to die

1686
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,200
killing that thing but now they're being

1687
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,960
dragged along because they actually care

1688
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,799
about the npc

1689
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,240
you know he has a i made up this whole

1690
00:54:48,799 --> 00:54:51,040
thing it's not even in the adventure but

1691
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:52,799
i mean

1692
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,200
when they meet him he brings them down

1693
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:57,119
into like this basement area where they

1694
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,920
uh where he initially tries to poison

1695
00:54:57,119 --> 00:55:01,520
them and they discover that and uh but

1696
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:04,240
they realize he's kind of crackers you

1697
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:06,000
know so he has a mop next to him that he

1698
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:08,319
brings over he says i want i want to

1699
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,680
introduce you to my wife penny and so

1700
00:55:08,319 --> 00:55:11,200
he's basically in love with a mop which

1701
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,680
is a representation of his dead wife

1702
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:16,880
yeah and this is all happening at night

1703
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:18,799
because during the day he's far more um

1704
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,119
coherent but at night he goes a little

1705
00:55:18,799 --> 00:55:23,040
nuts yeah and so now they've taken some

1706
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:25,200
pity on him and they feel bad and they

1707
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,720
because he has helped them because he

1708
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,440
they spared his life

1709
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:32,720
they're going to go and help him uh try

1710
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:34,640
and defeat this big bad evil guy and uh

1711
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:36,559
so those are those are ways that i use

1712
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,400
things to kind of motivate people if

1713
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:39,839
they didn't want to do that that's fine

1714
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,799
but it's kind of a fun thing that i

1715
00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:43,200
think they're gonna have a good time

1716
00:55:40,799 --> 00:55:44,880
with it's gonna be a challenge um and

1717
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,400
they may not have initially discovered

1718
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:49,440
it otherwise so

1719
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,240
um i use npcs and situational things to

1720
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,880
help

1721
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:54,400
spice things up uh move people along if

1722
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,839
i have to or

1723
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,240
if there's really cool content that i

1724
00:55:55,839 --> 00:55:59,599
want them to to see then yeah i try and

1725
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:01,520
motivate them if they end up at the end

1726
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:03,680
of the day not doing it

1727
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,839
well you know they we miss out on some

1728
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,839
content um the other thing is all that

1729
00:56:05,839 --> 00:56:09,599
content can be reused in the next

1730
00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:11,359
adventure yeah you know so it's like if

1731
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:12,640
they didn't use it here repurpose it for

1732
00:56:11,359 --> 00:56:14,880
something else and see if they use it

1733
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:17,200
there if not i mean all that stuff all

1734
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,040
that good writing all that planning can

1735
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,119
still be used but maybe not at this

1736
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,040
point in time so just you know file it

1737
00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:25,119
and see if they'll see if they'll bite

1738
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:28,000
the next time through mm-hmm

1739
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:30,960
yep one one final thing from me uh i

1740
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,480
wanted to uh it made me smile when we

1741
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,480
were talking and then i was doing

1742
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,799
preparation for this show all about

1743
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,720
hooks is that my

1744
00:56:36,799 --> 00:56:39,920
one of my early opening gambits with my

1745
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:41,680
players once they've got out of the

1746
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,200
prologue essentially the world opens up

1747
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,799
a little bit more and

1748
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,160
they know they have a bit more of a

1749
00:56:44,799 --> 00:56:48,799
wider understanding and they're not just

1750
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,079
on like a fetch quest essentially is i

1751
00:56:48,799 --> 00:56:51,359
give them

1752
00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:54,079
a

1753
00:56:51,359 --> 00:56:56,079
sheet of essentially about 10 plot hooks

1754
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:59,440
uh in the form of

1755
00:56:56,079 --> 00:57:01,599
rumor mill mcguffins to go and find uh

1756
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:04,240
you know powerful artifacts so on and so

1757
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:05,760
on um in universe it's you know

1758
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:07,839
powerful npc they're working with she

1759
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,599
has a companion that you know has his

1760
00:57:07,839 --> 00:57:12,319
ears the ground he knows people he can

1761
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:13,680
get things done he hears things so he

1762
00:57:12,319 --> 00:57:14,640
basically reports back and says i've

1763
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,559
heard this i've heard this i've heard

1764
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,799
this about this and the they they

1765
00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:21,920
broadly correlate with some magical

1766
00:57:18,799 --> 00:57:24,480
readings that the powerful npc has has

1767
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:26,400
felt in the weave or whatever it is and

1768
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,280
it was just making me smile that i've

1769
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,359
the whole

1770
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:32,000
the whole premise of my campaign is is

1771
00:57:29,359 --> 00:57:35,119
set on here's 10 hooks pick which one

1772
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:37,280
literally pick pick one from a menu here

1773
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:38,640
some uh some are you know more viable

1774
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,720
for you somewhere easier to get to

1775
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,440
someone harder to get to and the reason

1776
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,839
i'm bringing that up is because

1777
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:47,040
i had in my head and i'm trying to get

1778
00:57:45,839 --> 00:57:48,880
people to learn from my mistakes of

1779
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,680
course and so i had in my head that it

1780
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,599
was

1781
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,760
you know this is great dearing this is

1782
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:56,559
like carp you know pick from the menu

1783
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,839
here's 10 cool and interesting exciting

1784
00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:59,440
things

1785
00:57:57,839 --> 00:58:00,960
and in reality people like don't know

1786
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,599
where that is don't know what that is

1787
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:05,200
doesn't mean anything to me uh this one

1788
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:06,400
you know dm where's the closest one and

1789
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,680
we just want to go

1790
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,440
and do that one

1791
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,760
i was like oh

1792
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:14,640
okay kind of deflated yeah

1793
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:16,640
what did i do i felt like i maybe they

1794
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,640
i was too obtuse because i didn't want

1795
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,880
to be like go to this place and pick up

1796
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,880
this artifact it's like oh something's

1797
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,480
happened like the the mining output of

1798
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,680
this town has diminished which is

1799
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,599
unusual

1800
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,680
shall we go and find that out or there's

1801
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:31,520
there's reports of civil unrest over in

1802
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,680
this town should we go and should we go

1803
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:36,319
and do that right uh and uh yeah i just

1804
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,760
think it was so something wasn't quite

1805
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:39,520
there but next time i run it next time

1806
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,599
we're on the campaign it will be refined

1807
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,760
and it will be improved and it will be

1808
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:47,520
something will change

1809
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:50,880
yeah i i mean i i can i i think

1810
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:52,640
we all grow um i'm not look i know matt

1811
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,240
mercer and i don't think anybody is matt

1812
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,400
mercer but matt mercer and that's that's

1813
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:58,400
part of i think where people get

1814
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,920
um a little jaded from the standpoint

1815
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,680
they watch critical role and they they

1816
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:04,160
all want to be voice actors and stream

1817
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,680
and everything and that that's fine but

1818
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,640
i i hate when people come down on

1819
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,839
themselves for being human and you know

1820
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,839
it's a game

1821
00:59:09,839 --> 00:59:14,079
you know and i you're you're you're so

1822
00:59:11,839 --> 00:59:15,520
if you if you're damning for five people

1823
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:16,720
you are the sixth player so if you're

1824
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,599
not having a good time it's not worth

1825
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,839
doing

1826
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:21,359
and i wouldn't worry about um the

1827
00:59:19,839 --> 00:59:23,520
railroadiness and things like that i

1828
00:59:21,359 --> 00:59:25,680
mean your players will give you a pretty

1829
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,720
good sense of oh okay now we have to go

1830
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,880
over here

1831
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,839
i mean it just it becomes pretty obvious

1832
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,880
but as long as you're aware of that

1833
00:59:30,839 --> 00:59:34,880
failing you're probably one of the least

1834
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,119
likely people to actually commit that

1835
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:41,040
process and and sometimes railroading is

1836
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:43,119
necessary i'm sorry it just is and i i i

1837
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,319
i would challenge any dm on the planet

1838
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:46,640
to say that

1839
00:59:44,319 --> 00:59:48,960
they haven't used that at least once yep

1840
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:51,520
you know so um don't feel bad about that

1841
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:53,119
i i think you're doing fine and uh yeah

1842
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,480
as far as the a la carte stuff i love

1843
00:59:53,119 --> 00:59:56,640
that idea

1844
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,559
um i actually started writing

1845
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:02,480
what was going to be a module yeah but

1846
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:04,400
it was basically um like 21st chapters

1847
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,960
uh and so what it was is a way to set up

1848
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:09,440
an adventure with basically one big hook

1849
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,799
so as a way um and this is the biggest

1850
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,319
hook of all

1851
01:00:10,799 --> 01:00:14,559
you've got to be able to get your

1852
01:00:12,319 --> 01:00:16,640
players invested in each other or else

1853
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:19,680
you don't have a group

1854
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:21,119
and so um that's what the the

1855
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,280
the 21st

1856
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:25,040
stories were was they were all in

1857
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,200
separate areas and they were all brought

1858
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:29,280
together and there was a viable

1859
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,599
a viable storyline there

1860
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,040
that kind of cemented them based off

1861
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:35,839
their backstories

1862
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:38,400
uh and so they had a common goal only

1863
01:00:35,839 --> 01:00:40,559
because they had a common misstep

1864
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,319
um and so they weren't being forced into

1865
01:00:40,559 --> 01:00:44,240
it but they just kind of you know for

1866
01:00:42,319 --> 01:00:45,920
instance one of them was you know

1867
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,480
one works across the street at her

1868
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:50,880
father's you know uh

1869
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:52,400
equipment shop he goes into a bar across

1870
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,839
the street every time

1871
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,920
about one o'clock and he doesn't come

1872
01:00:53,839 --> 01:00:58,480
home until about four

1873
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,960
one of the guys is a town guard so he's

1874
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:02,720
in there as well another person is in

1875
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,680
there for something else and basically a

1876
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:07,280
bomb goes off and they survive but her

1877
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,359
father is killed

1878
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:11,040
and so now there's this investigation

1879
01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:12,960
obviously the guard want to figure out

1880
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,040
what's going on so they're brought in

1881
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:17,520
um the the one of the other guys in

1882
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,960
there is one of the proprietors

1883
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,079
bar keeps or whatever they're kind of

1884
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:23,119
interested and if they're not they're

1885
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:24,480
not um and then you have the the

1886
01:01:23,119 --> 01:01:27,359
the person across the street whose

1887
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:30,480
father was killed is now drawn in and so

1888
01:01:27,359 --> 01:01:32,400
you have these ways of kind of you

1889
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,160
building that common experience between

1890
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,240
the players and their group

1891
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,920
and locking that in is so super

1892
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,200
important to them caring about each

1893
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,799
other

1894
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,440
and that's the biggest hook of all so i

1895
01:01:40,799 --> 01:01:46,960
mean whatever hook you're gonna use that

1896
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:49,040
initial session zero session one hook is

1897
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:50,400
the ultimate most important thing that

1898
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,079
you can do because if if those

1899
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,680
characters can't bond through shared

1900
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:55,119
experience then

1901
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,520
there's a lot of well i'm gonna go and

1902
01:01:55,119 --> 01:01:59,520
do this screw you guys yeah um and so

1903
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:02,160
there's no empathy there's no um

1904
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:04,319
camaraderie there's no sense of we're

1905
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:06,960
all in this together and then it becomes

1906
01:02:04,319 --> 01:02:08,559
very antagonistic at times

1907
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,480
yeah no you're you're absolutely right

1908
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:12,799
in fact one of my notes says hooks to

1909
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:15,920
get the party together session one call

1910
01:02:12,799 --> 01:02:17,839
to arms and precisely for that reason uh

1911
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,599
you you explain it better than i ever

1912
01:02:17,839 --> 01:02:21,599
could so thank you very much

1913
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:22,960
for that oh you're too kind uh is that

1914
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:24,400
is there anything we might have missed

1915
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,400
that you wanted to talk about

1916
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:29,039
no i mean i think we had we had a pretty

1917
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,559
well-rounded conversation

1918
01:02:29,039 --> 01:02:33,039
you know i mean i i think the biggest

1919
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:34,480
thing when when conversations like this

1920
01:02:33,039 --> 01:02:36,000
are had um

1921
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,079
people are gonna side one way or the

1922
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:41,200
other with how they personally dm

1923
01:02:38,079 --> 01:02:42,880
that's perfectly fine i i'm a huge

1924
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,480
proponent of people doing their own

1925
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,359
style

1926
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:49,599
i'm happy to play with anybody who dms

1927
01:02:47,359 --> 01:02:51,359
way because it's always fun to be around

1928
01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:54,079
people and and see a different way of

1929
01:02:51,359 --> 01:02:56,319
doing things um what i would suggest is

1930
01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:57,839
you know from my standpoint i don't ever

1931
01:02:56,319 --> 01:03:00,000
think of something and say i would never

1932
01:02:57,839 --> 01:03:02,480
do that because you never can't tell

1933
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,839
um so keep keep your mind open you know

1934
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,160
when it comes to using some of these

1935
01:03:03,839 --> 01:03:08,000
mechanics to motivate your players yeah

1936
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,599
absolutely absolutely well thank you

1937
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,839
thank you ever so much mike is there

1938
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:13,920
anything you would like to promote

1939
01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:16,799
oh uh you know if

1940
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:20,319
if things like this are uh you know your

1941
01:03:16,799 --> 01:03:22,400
your your podcasting family um if they

1942
01:03:20,319 --> 01:03:24,640
like this interview style i do something

1943
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,440
similar um on youtube

1944
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:29,920
it's a youtube.com

1945
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,720
slash games played badly

1946
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:33,760
you can follow me on at badly underscore

1947
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,440
games

1948
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:37,280
on twitter

1949
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:39,280
i do a similar interview show with again

1950
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:41,359
with creators and things like that um

1951
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:43,039
don't let the video side

1952
01:03:41,359 --> 01:03:44,799
uh scare you you can always just listen

1953
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:46,559
to it if you want to um and actually i'm

1954
01:03:44,799 --> 01:03:48,640
going to be converting all of those uh

1955
01:03:46,559 --> 01:03:52,240
video interviews that we're up to our

1956
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:54,319
30th episode into um just audio format

1957
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:56,960
for people who would enjoy podcast

1958
01:03:54,319 --> 01:03:58,960
rather than watching a youtube video

1959
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,359
some of the videos are um

1960
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,680
actually showcase the artwork that go

1961
01:04:01,359 --> 01:04:05,200
into um some of these modules that

1962
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,640
people are creating on dm's guild and

1963
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,680
things like that so that's always fun to

1964
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:09,839
look at

1965
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:12,640
um but yeah come on by subscribe to the

1966
01:04:09,839 --> 01:04:14,240
channel i produce regular content and if

1967
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:17,760
you follow me on twitter

1968
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:19,440
i'm always um posting something so maybe

1969
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:21,440
maybe one day in the future mike will

1970
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,599
have like a really cool guest come on

1971
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,799
his show that you know it's fully i

1972
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:27,520
happen to have one

1973
01:04:24,799 --> 01:04:28,920
thinking critically uh oh yeah exactly

1974
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,960
but i've had good things yeah yeah

1975
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,559
[Laughter]

1976
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,920
no dad i'd love to have you on because

1977
01:04:32,559 --> 01:04:35,280
again it's another interview from a

1978
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,559
different take where i'm not talking to

1979
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,160
you as a dm i'm talking to you as a

1980
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:39,680
creator

1981
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,559
okay cool there you go at the very least

1982
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,960
you've got that to look forward to

1983
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:43,920
listeners

1984
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,240
but no

1985
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,680
all that's left to say is sincerely

1986
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:50,000
thank you ever so much mike that's a

1987
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:52,839
really really interesting decision on

1988
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,359
something which could have been a very

1989
01:04:52,839 --> 01:04:57,440
dry topic you know here is a plot hook

1990
01:04:55,359 --> 01:05:00,000
here you know here's a bunch of here's

1991
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:02,319
just a list of you know literary tools

1992
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,760
so i really like the direction that you

1993
01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:05,920
took it in in terms of like you know

1994
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,680
reading the table and knowing you know

1995
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,680
dealing with other human beings it's

1996
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,680
such a such a you know

1997
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:13,200
useful and an insightful

1998
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:15,119
bridge from

1999
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,559
how do i get you know it's how do i get

2000
01:05:15,119 --> 01:05:18,240
players engaged ultimately at this

2001
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:20,640
fundamental level and it's how do i get

2002
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,760
humans engaged is this even trickier you

2003
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:23,039
know you could get a degree in that

2004
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,559
right yes

2005
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:26,319
right the biggest plot hook is your

2006
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:27,839
players indeed you know

2007
01:05:26,319 --> 01:05:29,680
that's that's the ultimate plot as your

2008
01:05:27,839 --> 01:05:31,359
players making sure everybody's happy

2009
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,680
yeah so absolutely so thank you ever so

2010
01:05:31,359 --> 01:05:35,920
much for joining us today mike yep no my

2011
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,839
pleasure um again hopefully i'll have

2012
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,599
you on soon but uh

2013
01:05:37,839 --> 01:05:41,359
uh again i would not worry i think

2014
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:42,160
you're doing a great job thank you so

2015
01:05:41,359 --> 01:05:44,240
much

2016
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:46,319
thank you everybody listening at home i

2017
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,480
would encourage you to go and subscribe

2018
01:05:46,319 --> 01:05:49,599
to mike's youtube

2019
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,559
otherwise

2020
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:54,720
thank you all for listening and good

2021
01:05:52,559 --> 01:05:56,319
night

2022
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,720
and now it's time for the patreon shout

2023
01:05:56,319 --> 01:06:01,280
outs once again thank you to matt street

2024
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,160
at mpstreet88 on twitter for supporting

2025
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,440
the show

2026
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:06,440
if you need support running your

2027
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:08,640
personal or business schedule head to

2028
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:10,319
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

2029
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,480
make that difference between should do

2030
01:06:10,319 --> 01:06:14,319
and done boss it better with support

2031
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:16,559
from cat who will help you get back that

2032
01:06:14,319 --> 01:06:18,079
essential time you've been searching for

2033
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:19,920
if you would like to support what we do

2034
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:22,640
and get four shout outs a month head

2035
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:24,160
over to patreon.com thinking critically

2036
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:27,200
or you can just buy me a coffee at

2037
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:29,440
kofi.com thinking critically

2038
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:32,559
i would also like to humbly request that

2039
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:34,400
you drop me a rating on spotify which is

2040
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:36,000
a thing now you can do on the mobile app

2041
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,880
or just a

2042
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:41,440
like subscribe follow

2043
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:44,079
shout out tell your friends anything

2044
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:45,520
would be hugely appreciated probably

2045
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:51,160
more than the other stuff to be honest

2046
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:51,160
so thanks again for listening and bye

2047
01:06:51,510 --> 01:07:13,689
[Music]