Consequences

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welcome thinkers to season 3 episode 19

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of thinking critically today's topic is

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consequences

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by brandon aka rev

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from the crit show thank you ever so

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much for joining us today rev can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself i am

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the host and gm of the crit show which

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is an actual play podcast

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where we play monster of the week and

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other powered by the apocalypse games

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all within the same dimension-hopping

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narrative

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amazing well today's topic should be

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very

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relevant i guess

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in that it is

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consequences

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so

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what does that mean to you in the

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wider ttrpg framework

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yeah so you know a lot of the stuff that

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we play is

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powered by the apocalypse fate things

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like that and

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consequences

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are scaled so drastically just in the

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format of the roles of those games you

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know when you're when you're playing

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powered by the apocalypse for example

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you know you roll 2d6 and a 7 to 9 is a

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mix success meaning that you get what

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you want but there's also a complication

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there's a consequence for it and then a

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six and under is just a fail there's a

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huge consequence

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and so

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consequences ever since we started our

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show and i've noticed how much it's

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filtered over just kind of into my home

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games

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have become so important in the sense of

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the scope of them it kind of makes me

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think of if you're familiar with the

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mikado or they talk about let the

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punishment fit the crime

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that you know the size of the

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consequences got to be

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proportionate to

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the size of the thing that they were

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attempting to do

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in those systems and part of my

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ignorance you'll have to educate me a

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little bit in in those systems

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when there is

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you know either a minor or a major

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mishap for lack of a better term

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hey i love that kind of micro

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moment-to-moment improvisation required

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of the the gm yeah my question is is

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that

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you know the the the only ones of the

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the gm to

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think of those

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consequences in that you know very short

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period of time and if so

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how do you do it

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um i really think it comes down to

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your group and your table

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you know i've played at games where

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it is up to the gm to come up with those

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you know mixed successes but there are

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also times where i've played in games

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where the gm is like okay so you know

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they're trying to do this it is

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successful you know um because intent is

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so important in this it's like you know

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if you're trying to

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run out the door

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and close the door before a monster gets

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through it it's like okay so what's your

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main focus is it getting out the door

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first ahead of the rest of the group is

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it closing the door securely like what

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is it and they're like okay well it's

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it's to make sure everybody's out and to

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close the door

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like to make sure everyone's out before

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i close the door yeah it's like okay so

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on a mixed success that's the minimum

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thing you do accomplish

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but here's the consequence to it and so

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sometimes the gm will open it up to the

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table like okay so what do we think

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like what could be some possible

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ramifications here like oh well the

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creature slams hard against the door it

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starts to crack so it's not going to

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hold long

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or you know as you all rush through

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someone trips and their hand hits the

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fire alarm

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and

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you know that a bunch of people like

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innocent people now are going to be

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called here like a bunch of firefighters

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are going to show up yeah

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for me in our podcast i actually have

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gotten into the format and part of it

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because i think i

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kind of read the rules incorrectly the

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first time we played

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but in a mixed success it says that

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there is uh you know it comes at a cost

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a price to pay or a sacrifice or

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something to that effect yeah and i

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thought it was saying

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all three of them oh so i was giving the

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player three options like okay either

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this is gonna be the way it is this is

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the way or this is the way which one do

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you think

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and it's kind of become

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something i really like doing and

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the way that i come up with them is i

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just try to imagine myself in that

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situation in the moment you know if i'm

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trying to climb up a rope to escape from

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you know this this creature below

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and i feel myself slip and fall it's

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like oh i want to i want to try to catch

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myself

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well if i was in that situation what are

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some things that could happen to me well

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i could catch myself and like rip up my

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hands

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or i could catch myself and like some

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stuff in my pockets is gonna fall out or

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i catch myself and like that rope starts

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to fray and it's not gonna hold long so

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i have to find something else to climb

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on to

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and so i i always try to put myself

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in the shoes of the player who's just

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tried to do something and and think

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about like okay what's the like what

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options make sense and then i do let

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them choose between the three options

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that i give them of of what is the the

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slight failure there

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yeah that's a nice double-edged sword of

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player agency like you've given you a

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choice but obviously

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there's no winning choices

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yeah it's like this is not going to go

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well but in what way do you feel the

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most comfortable with it not going well

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yeah yeah i know i also loved where you

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mentioned there that sometimes it is a

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collaborative effort you know to come up

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with those ideas and that really

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that is the real definition of

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collaborative storytelling that gets

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that term gets banded around a lot for d

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but nine times out of ten it's well it

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might say nine times out of ten the

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second page of the player's handbook

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says the dm narrates the consequences of

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the results of those actions so

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and that totes itself is collaborative

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storytelling but in a way it's kind of

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pulling its punches a little bit because

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it isn't because it says there on the

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second page the dm tells you what the

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outcome is whereas what you've described

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is like

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true

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collaborative storytelling and that the

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players get a hand in not only the

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actions but also the outcomes the

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consequences of those actions which i

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really

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love i'm a bit scared of like the trust

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level required there there's got to be

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another layer of like

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maturity and trust

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on top to be able to like

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oh i i broke a nail when i was you know

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when when you're climbing up the cliff

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and then the gm has to be well that's

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not really a hit

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yeah

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that that's not really a consequence for

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uh not climbing very well uh unless your

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nails are magical weapons that can hurt

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people then yeah but

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yeah and what i really enjoy about it is

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that

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it really pulls you away from you know

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there's this this really old mindset um

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depending on the kinds of games you've

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played and the kinds of game masters

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you've played with of the us versus them

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[Music]

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and

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you know i i totally get that is some

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people they love that that's totally

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fine but i am a big fan of the hey we're

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working together to tell a story and

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yeah i'm gonna say some things i'm gonna

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make some decisions that are gonna be

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hard on you or rough on your character

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or whatever but it is all

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in the in the intent of telling this

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really compelling narrative between all

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of us

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yeah and that that is that

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space there is a tricky one to build

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into and to really build that comfort

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and confidence with your players to not

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yeah take the take the piss and

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and then just you know trust them to

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build you that story and

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often it's

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you know that is absolutely like a

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session zero kind of thing you know the

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game like this is the kind of game that

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i want to play is when we're we're

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building it all together whereas

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i think i think one i play is

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a little bit of column a and a little

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bit column b

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a lot of my players uh would prefer to

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be

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excluded from the consequence decision

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making in a sense that although i am

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only human and to err is human and i am

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in no way free of any bias i am still

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somewhat as the dm of my campaign a

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objective

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at least intended to be

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an objective power so by removing

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the the players decisions from from the

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outcome i think they prefer to be like

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they can trust me at least which is a

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position of responsibility yeah and with

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you know these types of games

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you get that element of it when it comes

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to the full

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failure like a six and under

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triggers what in those games they call a

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hard move by the game master and so

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those are things usually that

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are

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plot relevant or

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monster relevant or whatever

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that

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i have thought up ahead of time or make

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sense in the moment that you know they

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they just get the ramification of it

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they don't really have the

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uh the same level of input as they do on

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those mixed successes

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well that's where that's where the fun

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lies in the mix successes you know that

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that's where it's it's cool to work with

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them because it is that middle ground of

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like oh let's have some fun here let's

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there's there's wiggle room

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right it isn't like

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this is super bad now it's like that's a

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little bit bad but let's work out yeah

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you still got what you want but yeah not

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quite how you wanted it

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yeah yeah that is interesting and

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i think it's a failing of and uh you

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know

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excuse me for falling back on my my d d

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expertise here but that's the

283
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,480
one of the points of today's discussion

284
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,839
is to see where it it differs and the

285
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,360
similarities and the differences with

286
00:09:51,839 --> 00:09:56,800
other systems but i think that's a

287
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,080
failing of dnd is i think at some point

288
00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,320
somewhere probably in the dungeon

289
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,160
master's guide it will say like

290
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,560
have a sliding scale for you know

291
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,640
success in binary it isn't just you meet

292
00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:09,360
the dc you can you can have a sliding dc

293
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,800
scale yeah but it's never

294
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,480
you know for a newbie who's just picked

295
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,120
up lost mines or the starter kit or

296
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,040
something that isn't it is

297
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,440
probably going to be a very binary like

298
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,600
well the dc says 15 and they hit 14 they

299
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,480
didn't do what they're gonna do and yeah

300
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,760
it's a shame in a way i'd i'd prefer it

301
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,480
to be a little bit more baked into the

302
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,880
fundamental mechanics that idea of

303
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,640
a scale a success scale

304
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,800
yeah like this oh this knowledge check's

305
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,279
really difficult it's a 27. oh you get a

306
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,880
26 you know nothing it's like

307
00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:41,279
well there's got to be some stuff they

308
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,120
know right yeah yeah

309
00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:45,120
when you put it like that it's so like

310
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,959
hilariously obvious that like such a

311
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,720
high roller 26 and they're like now

312
00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:50,560
you're dumbfounded you've never read

313
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,959
this relatively common language before

314
00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:54,399
in your life

315
00:10:52,959 --> 00:10:56,240
what are these weird symbols made on

316
00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:58,320
this piece of paper oh it's just a

317
00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,800
coffee menu right okay

318
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,800
one away

319
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,839
so

320
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,640
one of the things that i thought about

321
00:11:05,839 --> 00:11:09,519
when

322
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:12,640
preparing for today's discussion was

323
00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:13,920
all of those memes you see about like oh

324
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,600
how was i to know there was going to be

325
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:19,120
consequences for my actions yeah oh no

326
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,000
look what it is it's the consequences of

327
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,800
my actions um which i love because it's

328
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,880
so

329
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,959
you know it's funny because it's true

330
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,519
and i think more so with ttrpgs when you

331
00:11:26,959 --> 00:11:31,120
have the surprise pikachu face players

332
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:32,160
that are like oh

333
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,320
snap

334
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,079
that thing i did is now biting me in the

335
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,800
backside

336
00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:39,680
and

337
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,920
i have to say one of the allures of

338
00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:44,320
jamming for new players is watching that

339
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,959
penny drop like penny drop moments in

340
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,640
any discipline in any area or any

341
00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:50,560
profession are always

342
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,160
wonderful things to to witness that's

343
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:54,720
why teaching is a thing that people like

344
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:57,279
to do because it's the thrill of

345
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,920
watching the light bulb go and that is

346
00:11:57,279 --> 00:12:02,240
the ttrpg equivalent of

347
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:05,600
when you see people be like ah yes i'm

348
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,600
not playing dragon age anymore okay

349
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,320
that moment is great and one of the ways

350
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:13,200
you can get to that moment is through

351
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,920
consequences of the the player actions

352
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,160
so

353
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,760
i don't know whether you have any any

354
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,839
thoughts now or any particularly

355
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,079
pertinent examples of

356
00:12:19,839 --> 00:12:25,600
those light bulb moments

357
00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:27,920
yeah you know we um as a group we run a

358
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,600
lot of powered by the apocalypse games

359
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,040
at conventions

360
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,160
and

361
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,839
i would say

362
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,440
well probably 80 percent of the time

363
00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:36,959
it's people who have never played one

364
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,720
before but they've heard about one and

365
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:40,160
so they want to get a chance to do it

366
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,720
and so

367
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:45,200
first you have that step of oh yeah so

368
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,279
you you've kind of failed this thing

369
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,519
how do you think you failed it and you

370
00:12:47,279 --> 00:12:52,480
get that moment of is this a is this a

371
00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:54,079
trick why are you asking me how i detect

372
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,279
yeah

373
00:12:54,079 --> 00:12:59,680
um but then once you get to

374
00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:01,519
like the only notes i really take is a

375
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,480
gm like if you were to look behind my

376
00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:05,920
screen

377
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,920
it's mostly just random pen marks yeah

378
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,279
because you know i don't need a whole

379
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,000
lot to

380
00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:14,000
to run the story that i'm doing but i do

381
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,600
want to take notes of

382
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,200
those little things that come up you

383
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,120
know oh yeah we pulled into the parking

384
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,320
lot here as we went in and

385
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,760
you know we noticed that there was

386
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,200
someone in the parking lot so we made

387
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,480
sure to park

388
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,320
right next to them because they weren't

389
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,399
parked correctly in the lines and just

390
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,079
kind of pissed me off and so then later

391
00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:31,839
like when there's a complication like oh

392
00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:33,200
yeah you go out you you know you're all

393
00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:34,720
trying to escape from this place you've

394
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,959
set off the fire alarm you gotta get out

395
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,279
of here and you notice that one of your

396
00:13:36,959 --> 00:13:41,279
tires is slashed and there's a note on

397
00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:43,360
your car

398
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:45,600
and it says thanks for parking so close

399
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,399
you know finding ways to

400
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:50,480
to lead those consequences or to rather

401
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:52,880
to pull those consequences from the

402
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,560
things that they have set up is one of

403
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,839
my favorite things so that you never

404
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:57,680
feel like you're getting struck out of

405
00:13:55,839 --> 00:14:00,720
left field

406
00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:02,560
yeah as a player you mean yeah yeah yeah

407
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,399
yeah exactly and again that that ties

408
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,720
back nicely into that whole

409
00:14:04,399 --> 00:14:08,079
trust piece and the the

410
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,079
difference between them versus us

411
00:14:08,079 --> 00:14:11,680
gameplay because

412
00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:13,279
in that instance

413
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,959
of them versus me versus them or

414
00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:16,880
whatever it is the players are very

415
00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:18,959
reticent to ever make themselves

416
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,120
vulnerable so in that example they would

417
00:14:18,959 --> 00:14:23,040
have been no i spend

418
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,880
another minute backing back out and

419
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,199
reversing you know pulling back in the

420
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,920
bay making sure i'm six inches from the

421
00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:31,839
line either side nice good that's not

422
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,000
going to come and hit me later

423
00:14:31,839 --> 00:14:36,560
so here whereas in in this collaborative

424
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,199
storytelling version again you can trust

425
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,279
the players to put their characters in

426
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:44,560
more vulnerable situations by

427
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:47,680
making suboptimal decisions or by saying

428
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,680
or doing foolish things that can be you

429
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,760
know misconstrued by the npcs or

430
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,839
whatever it may be and likewise they can

431
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,320
trust you into not hitting them out of

432
00:14:53,839 --> 00:14:57,920
their field or just completely whipping

433
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,839
the rug out from under them and be like

434
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,040
yeah

435
00:14:59,839 --> 00:15:02,480
when you know when they parked outside

436
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,920
of the bay you open the door and as you

437
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,040
turn the ignition a bomb goes off

438
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,480
because

439
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:10,160
like slashing the tires makes sense but

440
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,160
someone was so pissed you parked outside

441
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,079
the bay they did this that's just like

442
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,920
that doesn't make any sense gm and now

443
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:16,800
we're not having fun so i love that and

444
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,880
then

445
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,040
that trust is is very much a two-way

446
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,959
street is not just

447
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,040
the gm trust in the players it is the

448
00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:28,160
players having to trust the gm as well

449
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:30,160
to make things make sense and to be like

450
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,480
no that's fair that slash tire is

451
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,000
completely fair and deserved

452
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,340
and it makes sense because the world

453
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,880
feels alive thanks gm

454
00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:38,399
[Laughter]

455
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,399
well and i think too that you know

456
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:43,279
something that's that's really important

457
00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:45,759
narratively and it's something that you

458
00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:47,759
know you kind of bump into when you play

459
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:49,199
uh you know pathfinder or dungeons and

460
00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:50,240
dragons

461
00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:51,920
that

462
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,480
just because you fail just because

463
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:57,360
there's a consequence to your action it

464
00:15:54,480 --> 00:16:00,079
doesn't mean that it's not still badass

465
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,079
yeah like you can fail in a really cool

466
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:04,639
way as opposed to like oh yeah you

467
00:16:02,079 --> 00:16:06,079
didn't hit the ac so you miss like

468
00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:07,519
that's not an interesting thing to

469
00:16:06,079 --> 00:16:09,519
describe but

470
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:11,120
you know if it's if they fail on an

471
00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:12,800
attack you know and monster of the week

472
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,880
against a creature it's like oh yeah you

473
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,639
run up and you jam the sword down onto

474
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,639
it and you realize as you get close that

475
00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:21,519
its flesh is really

476
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:23,519
craggy and part of the blade breaks off

477
00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:25,920
you can tell this thing has such a thick

478
00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:28,560
skin that your sword just can't

479
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,839
penetrate it and so you still give them

480
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,680
a cool cinematic moment it's not like oh

481
00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:35,040
yeah you trip and fall

482
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,880
you're bad at this

483
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,759
you still make them feel

484
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,800
cool in their consequences

485
00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:43,759
mm-hmm

486
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,839
which is a tricky thing to do as a dm or

487
00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:48,639
put it in other ways not a professional

488
00:16:45,839 --> 00:16:50,720
improviser it is

489
00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:53,120
hard to

490
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,000
come up with those unique things like

491
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,480
consist on a consistent basis oh yeah at

492
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,240
a high level like throughout all the

493
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,639
kinds of interactions and times that

494
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,160
things can go bad it's not so bad when

495
00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:05,839
you're playing a system that has levels

496
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,799
and the characters at lower levels

497
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,720
because

498
00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:10,799
it's more feasible for them to you slip

499
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,640
on the banana skin whoops haha slapstick

500
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:14,079
comedy that's fine that makes sense

501
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,600
today

502
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,760
one yeah exactly but then when they're

503
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,600
like level 10 and slinging you know

504
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,199
swinging from rafters and

505
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,360
firing fireballs and stuff on the rare

506
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:24,400
occasion where they do

507
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:25,600
fail

508
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,000
quite bad

509
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,520
it's really incongruent to be like oh

510
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,280
you slipped and fell on your bum well

511
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,440
hang on i've been

512
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,200
i've been a master acrobat now for like

513
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,200
50 years like

514
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,080
that would never happen

515
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,600
yeah

516
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,080
and it makes my makes my cool character

517
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,200
look stupid cool yeah

518
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,320
yeah i was listening to something

519
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,160
earlier where someone had failed a a

520
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,679
relatively simple role and and the game

521
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,360
master was like why do you like what

522
00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:52,720
goes wrong here

523
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,080
and they were like oh you know when we

524
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,919
walked in there was all this smoke in

525
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,440
the air and i think it's not just smoke

526
00:17:55,919 --> 00:17:59,039
like i think someone is burning

527
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,360
something and

528
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:03,360
it's it's getting into my system that

529
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,960
it's it's clouding my thoughts and i

530
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,880
think that i try to do this spell and it

531
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,880
just doesn't like i don't have all the

532
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,960
pieces at the forefront of my brain

533
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,720
because of this smoke and so you know

534
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,640
giving them the chance to like okay

535
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,240
again why do you think this went wrong

536
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,480
like we know it went wrong that's what

537
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,160
the dice have told us yeah but we don't

538
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,679
know narratively why it went wrong like

539
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,600
what do you think

540
00:18:21,679 --> 00:18:25,840
yeah i'm i'm gonna

541
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,440
try and float that idea to my players

542
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,400
next time i'm very happy with this

543
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,760
learning moment for me now

544
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,080
next time we play it you'll be a week

545
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,039
away if if an opportunity presents

546
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,440
itself

547
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:39,679
i might be like hey let's you know i

548
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,799
can't be the only improvisational you

549
00:18:39,679 --> 00:18:43,760
know creative font here let's open it to

550
00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:46,000
the floor

551
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,480
what would be a funny and interesting

552
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,400
way here to to see yeah see what happens

553
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,480
when it does it shares the workload too

554
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,840
because you know if you go back and if

555
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,400
you listen to

556
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,960
our show where i'm generating these

557
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,200
um you know in our first two seasons you

558
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,400
know they they can't all be gems

559
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,559
it's you know sometimes they're like

560
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,280
okay they're sneaking out a hallway

561
00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:08,960
and uh oh you failed this role

562
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,280
yeah you you you know you bend over to

563
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,480
tie your shoe and you guys talked about

564
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,080
eating all the way here you just fart

565
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,080
really loudly in the hallway and all of

566
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,000
a sudden your stealth is blown and it's

567
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,919
you know okay that one's not cool but i

568
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,440
got a good laugh out of them so it's

569
00:19:19,919 --> 00:19:22,559
also about knowing your group and like

570
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,919
what's the

571
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:28,080
the mix of you know humor versus

572
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:29,919
in character story

573
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,200
um what's that balance of the

574
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:33,840
consequences

575
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,960
yeah it ha see this is this is why i

576
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,240
love

577
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,280
ttlpgs and this show is is to hopefully

578
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,520
highlight

579
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,240
that it is

580
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,919
hard like micromanaging that balance for

581
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,840
everybody you know just the gm for the

582
00:19:45,919 --> 00:19:49,919
players are just as responsible

583
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,520
micromanaging that balance in any given

584
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:53,200
situation is

585
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,840
is a very

586
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,760
tricky thing and a very practicable

587
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,520
skill like you can

588
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,360
you can get better at it

589
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,039
but yeah just just

590
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,240
knowing when you know when's too far

591
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:07,120
when you need to pull back when you need

592
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,039
to push forward is you know in terms of

593
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:11,200
like narrative fluff and is a fart going

594
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:13,679
to be here good here is it going to be

595
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,640
you know pure aisle here and then right

596
00:20:13,679 --> 00:20:16,159
is

597
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,840
again comes with experience comes with

598
00:20:16,159 --> 00:20:20,480
knowledge comes with ownership to a

599
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,640
certain extent but i'm very much behind

600
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,159
that idea of kind of sharing the load

601
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,120
and again i don't want to turn this into

602
00:20:24,159 --> 00:20:27,760
like

603
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,520
oh isn't the poor gm hard life's hard

604
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,039
he's got to do all this work which is

605
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,080
which is why i'm saying like no the

606
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:34,159
players

607
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,559
have that burden as well but yeah

608
00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:39,360
certainly the way i still play in in

609
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:40,880
that as i said i tend to do most of the

610
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,240
the flavor narration the players have

611
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,520
the opportunity to do so some of my

612
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,480
players are not really bothered by it oh

613
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,760
and just say i hit it with my great

614
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,559
sword i hit it with my grey sword which

615
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:51,360
is fine um but otherwise it's down to me

616
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:52,640
and yeah absolutely it's draining

617
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,400
you know and and you're at the end

618
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,039
you're just you know you're operating on

619
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,600
fumes and it does just come down to

620
00:20:57,039 --> 00:21:01,440
you hit it with a sword a little bit

621
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:05,039
different from the side because i've

622
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:07,120
used every synonym for harry

623
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:09,280
yeah in the last four hours of play that

624
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:11,039
i've just my brain just said no no more

625
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:15,320
words for you danilo you can just say

626
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:15,320
the sword hits the other sword

627
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,760
so one of the one of the main

628
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:25,600
things that often gets discussed hand in

629
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:28,400
hand with consequences is the idea of

630
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:31,280
murder hoboism as i am i'm coining it

631
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:34,240
and i'm not sure how much of a big deal

632
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,320
it is in the systems that you play and

633
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,400
also i'm not frankly sure how much of

634
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,000
really a big deal it is in

635
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,559
games that you play

636
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,480
with people you know i have a sneaky

637
00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:46,880
suspicion the guy's telling me it's more

638
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,600
of an issue with pickup groups and

639
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,120
randoms however saying that that's the

640
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,440
archetypical like

641
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:54,960
the players have gone and doing some

642
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,159
stuff which is just

643
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,600
immoral amoral bad within the universe

644
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:00,799
whatever however you want to describe it

645
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,200
and that is the classic one that says

646
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,640
well you know i i could be i'd be a rich

647
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,000
man if i had a pound for every time

648
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,919
every thread i've seen every comment

649
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,240
i've seen that's like how do i

650
00:22:07,919 --> 00:22:12,080
deal with this they murdered the

651
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,039
merchant in the middle of his village

652
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,720
and

653
00:22:13,039 --> 00:22:16,559
hey that always strikes me as an

654
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,200
interesting question

655
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:20,559
meta in a way because

656
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,640
of itself isn't an interesting question

657
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:24,240
it's quite a boring question but the

658
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,600
fact that it's being asked is

659
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,080
interesting to me because it's like well

660
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,720
the whole point of ttrpg's is that it's

661
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,120
this dynamic world that you're living in

662
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:36,240
even if you play super raw super

663
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:38,720
mechanical super optimal it's still

664
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:42,159
fundamentally a dynamic world that

665
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:44,159
reacts in the most dynamic way ever

666
00:22:42,159 --> 00:22:46,720
to the actions of the players being

667
00:22:44,159 --> 00:22:48,480
mechanical or abstract actions

668
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,159
so the whole the whole premise is

669
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,000
predicated on this dynamic feedback so

670
00:22:50,159 --> 00:22:54,799
the moment anyone says like

671
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,679
my players have done action a how do i

672
00:22:54,799 --> 00:23:00,240
respond to me that's like

673
00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:01,679
how do i play the game in a way like

674
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,760
what should i do

675
00:23:01,679 --> 00:23:05,120
here that's that's for me personally

676
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,120
that's the meat on the that's why i'm

677
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:09,120
there to answer those questions i love

678
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:10,000
them yeah those questions in my game are

679
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,960
brilliant they've given me all this

680
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,480
material this is where i get to flex my

681
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,640
my muscles

682
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,080
so i but fortunately enough my players

683
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,679
haven't gone full

684
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,400
off

685
00:23:19,679 --> 00:23:25,360
off the tracks um but what about you

686
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,960
have you got any tips any thoughts on

687
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:29,600
let's start with the extreme you know

688
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,679
the classic murder hoboism of just

689
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,799
completely pointless chaotic evil

690
00:23:31,679 --> 00:23:34,880
nonsense

691
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:36,400
yeah you know it's something that

692
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,799
really caught me off guard the first

693
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,799
time that i encountered it because

694
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:44,480
when i first started playing

695
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:47,039
tt rpgs i started with with earthdawn

696
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:50,320
and earthdawn's whole system is based

697
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:51,919
off of legend points meaning that it's

698
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,520
not you don't get experience from

699
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:55,679
killing creatures

700
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,679
you get character growth by people

701
00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:59,120
knowing of the heroic deeds that you've

702
00:23:57,679 --> 00:24:00,960
done

703
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,960
and so

704
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,600
you know there was no choice really but

705
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,279
to be a hero because

706
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,440
that's how you

707
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:11,679
gained experience that's how you became

708
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,240
more popular more well-known and the

709
00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:15,919
whole game really is based around the

710
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,960
idea of you know you're a group of

711
00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:19,919
heroes trying to do a thing and if you

712
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,559
start to

713
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:23,520
you know behave in a in a chaotic evil

714
00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:24,880
way

715
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,720
the forces that you're out there to

716
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,960
fight against will start to corrupt you

717
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,880
and pull you to their side to the point

718
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,120
where you'll have to give your character

719
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,400
over to the game master so it wasn't

720
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,080
really something that i ever dealt with

721
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,919
until much later

722
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,279
but i i remember very distinctly the

723
00:24:37,919 --> 00:24:41,440
first time

724
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:43,600
sitting down with a group of people and

725
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:46,400
you know we were playing a game kind of

726
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,080
set in in our world

727
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,200
and

728
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,400
this person gets a bazooka out and

729
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,200
blows up

730
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,120
like a a power station

731
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,440
and then they were shocked when the

732
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,480
police and the fire department showed up

733
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,400
and like

734
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,600
drew on them and and told them they were

735
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,240
under arrest

736
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,559
and so i think that a lot of that has to

737
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,480
deal with your session zero

738
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:12,320
that you got to establish you know with

739
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,679
your players like okay

740
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,600
like what are what are what are the

741
00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:18,960
rules of the world here how are we

742
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:21,600
playing this are npcs

743
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:24,559
you know disposable dime a dozen things

744
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:27,200
that you can just use as you as you see

745
00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:29,200
fit and ignore the rest of the time

746
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,520
or are they

747
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,279
kind of complex characters that can aid

748
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,320
and hinder you as you go through your

749
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:37,039
story

750
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,320
i think that the more

751
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:39,600
realistic

752
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,400
and

753
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,799
kind of dynamic you can make the

754
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,480
characters that they're interacting with

755
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:49,200
the harder it will be for them just to

756
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,840
be like oh this is nameless innkeeper i

757
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,279
i murder him because he's got more coins

758
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,200
than i do

759
00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:57,200
but again it really does come down to

760
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,559
that session zero of

761
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,400
you know what are kind of our lines and

762
00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:02,080
our veils and what is what is the

763
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,640
society here how

764
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,720
how are murderers treated in this

765
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,279
instance or you know what's the you know

766
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:12,080
in any small town uh within the

767
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:14,320
principalities here what's the

768
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,720
punishment for thievery

769
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,039
and and just kind of setting that out as

770
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,320
a group because that'll tell you a lot

771
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:22,799
about

772
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,480
the world the players want to play in

773
00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:27,679
i never

774
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,960
build my world until

775
00:26:27,679 --> 00:26:31,120
the players have made their characters

776
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,559
because they tell you so much of the

777
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,720
story that they want to play by the

778
00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:37,120
characters they create

779
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,880
and the backstories they give themselves

780
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:40,640
that if you can then find ways to

781
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,400
incorporate the oh this person has a

782
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,440
high thievery and a high backstab well i

783
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,799
know

784
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,720
that they want to use that obviously

785
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:49,679
so what kind of thing can i put in their

786
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,720
way

787
00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:52,960
that

788
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,880
you know morally

789
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,240
isn't just them doing this to whoever

790
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,880
they find but oh yeah there's this

791
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,320
corrupt group who's doing you know x y

792
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,799
and z

793
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:06,000
how are you going to deal with them

794
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:09,279
again another world building challenge

795
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,520
for the gm yeah do you think then

796
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:13,520
at that session zero that you mentioned

797
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,480
it would be useful to have

798
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,760
like hypothetical situations to then you

799
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,360
know at least work with the players or

800
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,240
if you wanna if the world is already

801
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:24,640
pre-set up for sake of argument players

802
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,240
if somebody kills somebody in this world

803
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,520
they will be you know

804
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,760
the police would do everything in their

805
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,760
power to apprehend that person and put

806
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,600
them in prison that is his one

807
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,200
hypothetical example of a crime being

808
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,880
committed in the world

809
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,480
you know that's we've even before we've

810
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,320
even started playing

811
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,279
you you know

812
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,880
that's what's going to happen do you

813
00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:44,320
think that's you know

814
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,520
beneficial to either build that at the

815
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,440
time

816
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,240
with the players as you said or already

817
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,840
have them pre-baked

818
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,559
and i think you know one of my favorite

819
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,640
session zeros i've ever done was

820
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,840
you know we sat down we generated

821
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,240
characters we talked about the world a

822
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:03,840
little bit and then

823
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,039
each player had uh just like a 10 or 15

824
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,600
minute

825
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:08,799
session alone with the game master

826
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,840
you know we were all still there but it

827
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:11,679
was them

828
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,760
going through a couple of things using

829
00:28:11,679 --> 00:28:15,279
their important skills and

830
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,919
them just kind of getting an opportunity

831
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:19,279
to feel each other out in the sense of

832
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:21,279
you know how they were going to play the

833
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:23,440
character what things were you know

834
00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:25,120
relevant to them

835
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,919
because then that gives you a chance to

836
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:30,480
to adapt things or adjust things between

837
00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:32,320
that and your first session

838
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,840
yeah and again that's that's a failing

839
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,919
that i have

840
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,120
unwittingly committed myself and you

841
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:39,840
know not

842
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:41,919
it's so easy to think of

843
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,799
session zero is one thing when it is in

844
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:46,799
fact 20 million different things

845
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:49,039
right all at once and it has a lot of

846
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:50,399
baggage nowadays for for better and for

847
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:51,600
worse

848
00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:54,880
and of course it does all of those

849
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,399
things and more and in fact it's it's

850
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,520
you know in some cases it probably needs

851
00:28:56,399 --> 00:29:00,880
to be longer than a regular session in a

852
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,880
weird right you know

853
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,480
upside down turn of events

854
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,960
rather than just his you know scene

855
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,720
saying it's it needs to be all of this

856
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,320
stuff not just

857
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,120
if you kill bad things would happen to

858
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,200
you but also like his these nations and

859
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,399
his background and what did you you know

860
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,840
how did your character grow up again oh

861
00:29:16,399 --> 00:29:18,799
yeah let me think about we could maybe

862
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,559
do this

863
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:22,799
uh and i think there's a lot to be said

864
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:24,480
for doing that in kind of full

865
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:26,559
transparency of the other players if you

866
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,799
have the opportunity to do so because it

867
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:31,120
builds that shared universe

868
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:32,640
you know everybody's invested

869
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,720
a little bit you know the very least of

870
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,399
their time which is highly hugely

871
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,919
important to people to be like oh this

872
00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:39,360
is this is the our world and that has

873
00:29:37,919 --> 00:29:42,159
already started to

874
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,679
maybe mitigate that chaotic evil play

875
00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:44,720
because people have invested time into

876
00:29:43,679 --> 00:29:46,240
this world and they don't want to

877
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,200
immediate the first time they step foot

878
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,510
in it they don't want to just tear it

879
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,360
down

880
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:51,039
[Laughter]

881
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,799
yeah there's a game that we played a

882
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:55,360
couple of years ago that

883
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:56,799
that was part of the session zero

884
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,159
they had a mechanic that you went

885
00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:00,159
through on the world building it was

886
00:29:58,159 --> 00:30:02,559
like okay so there are

887
00:30:00,159 --> 00:30:04,799
corporations that run this city and

888
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:07,360
there is as many corporations as there

889
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:09,200
are players each person described one

890
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,600
corporation and what they're in charge

891
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,039
of and so i was like okay well there's

892
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,640
this one person came up with you know

893
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,720
there's this group and they do all of

894
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,880
like transportation they do

895
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,360
the subways they do the buses they do

896
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,120
the taxis and they use that as a system

897
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,240
to you know filter money and someone

898
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,760
else was like oh yeah there's a group

899
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,200
who does all of like the defense

900
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,440
contracts and

901
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,679
and so then as they start to to build

902
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,799
that world you know even if it's even if

903
00:30:31,679 --> 00:30:36,080
you have

904
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:38,399
a home brew world that you want to do

905
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,440
letting the players in your session zero

906
00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:41,039
build

907
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,279
like their starting location and then

908
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:45,200
dropping that into your map that you

909
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:47,840
have

910
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,080
gives them that sense of kind of

911
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,720
ownership over the the place where we

912
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:55,520
first find them and get to know them

913
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,519
yeah absolutely absolutely you know it

914
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,200
sounds so obvious

915
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:00,399
not just what you're saying but what you

916
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,840
know everything we've talked about so

917
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:05,919
far on paper it's like well duh

918
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,799
it really is a lot it is a lot and it's

919
00:31:05,919 --> 00:31:10,320
so hard uh to to be able to get all the

920
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:12,480
all your chickens in a line and get

921
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,240
everybody ready and and have players who

922
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,799
wish to do that as i said like i've got

923
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:20,320
a whole mix of players some who are very

924
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:22,320
keen on that kind of stuff some who

925
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,080
do the bare minimum i think is fair to

926
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,159
say in terms of

927
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,679
world building and fluff and backstory

928
00:31:26,159 --> 00:31:30,399
in fact one of the characters uh one of

929
00:31:27,679 --> 00:31:32,399
the players characters died recently and

930
00:31:30,399 --> 00:31:34,320
they had a yeah you know i gave them

931
00:31:32,399 --> 00:31:36,000
four weeks over the christmas holidays

932
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,679
went to holidays to

933
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,880
build a new character

934
00:31:37,679 --> 00:31:40,320
i've said like his here's the list of

935
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,080
all the npc's you know here's the list

936
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,360
here's the session logs for

937
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,360
the last 68 sessions the riff off of

938
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,120
this wealth of material

939
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,880
and he left it until the night before

940
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,679
about 11 00 p.m

941
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,519
to

942
00:31:51,679 --> 00:31:59,519
send me a half-baked backstory

943
00:31:55,519 --> 00:32:00,880
so you know balancing that i

944
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:02,159
i don't want to say it's like a job in a

945
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,440
way because every game is different and

946
00:32:02,159 --> 00:32:05,760
some games are smooth like batter and

947
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,640
others have these weird

948
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,840
bumps in the road like mine tend to do

949
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,279
but

950
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,000
it is just

951
00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:15,120
a dance basically it's a delicate dance

952
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,880
between

953
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,559
making sure all these plates are kept

954
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,240
spinning and everybody's happy that the

955
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:22,559
plates are spinning in in the direction

956
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,880
they want them to spin to really

957
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:26,720
really butcher an already tenuous

958
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,080
metaphor there

959
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,760
one because you're going to have players

960
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,200
who you know you're going to have that

961
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,559
player that sends you

962
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,480
a seven page backstory that has npcs

963
00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:38,480
named and items that are important to

964
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,000
them that maybe they could find later

965
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,720
and then you're you also have the player

966
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,360
who is just there to

967
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,880
roll dice and feel like a badass in

968
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,159
combat and they yeah my mom is

969
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,840
jane and

970
00:32:50,159 --> 00:32:52,720
my dad is joe

971
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,159
and

972
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,440
you know again we you talk about that

973
00:32:54,159 --> 00:32:58,320
delicate dance of finding that balance

974
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,080
of

975
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,200
okay this character clearly wants to

976
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,120
role play

977
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,799
and this character clearly wants to like

978
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,240
do a dungeon crawl

979
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:07,279
so how can i

980
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,440
place

981
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:11,120
these role-playing elements within the

982
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,600
dungeon crawl so that

983
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,760
no one feels like their you know their

984
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,360
desired game

985
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,039
isn't kind of happening

986
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,640
yeah and uh

987
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:22,159
thank you for providing me a very nice

988
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,960
opportunity to do some self-promotion

989
00:33:22,159 --> 00:33:27,519
here because uh i i made some some

990
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:30,240
tweets recently around um

991
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:32,080
that there's a discourse that i i find

992
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,080
a bit of a waste of time to be

993
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,640
completely frank in the whole like rules

994
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,960
versus fun debate and those do follow me

995
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,720
on twitter will remember this tweet

996
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,240
because my point is that that is not a

997
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,679
discussion that doesn't that those two

998
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,159
things are apples and oranges you can't

999
00:33:43,679 --> 00:33:49,519
compare them like that because the rules

1000
00:33:46,159 --> 00:33:51,200
are the fun for some players yeah so

1001
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:52,720
it's not a rules or fun it's one of the

1002
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,960
rules are the fun for that player that

1003
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,200
the actual discussion is

1004
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,919
somebody likes rules and somebody

1005
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,399
doesn't like them as much

1006
00:33:59,919 --> 00:34:04,880
do these two people belong in the same

1007
00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:06,720
you know the same game or how can i you

1008
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,679
know make a mix of you know because if

1009
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,599
we

1010
00:34:07,679 --> 00:34:12,079
obviously if you especially

1011
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:13,040
if you play you know any version of d

1012
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:15,919
before

1013
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:18,480
5e or if you play pathfinder

1014
00:34:15,919 --> 00:34:21,040
you have to love rules because there's a

1015
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:23,200
rule for everything and you spend so

1016
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,040
much time looking them up

1017
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,599
that you know there there is an element

1018
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,599
of you know when sometimes to relax

1019
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:31,919
we play a much more complicated game

1020
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:33,839
than the one we do on our podcast

1021
00:34:31,919 --> 00:34:34,800
because there is something that's fun

1022
00:34:33,839 --> 00:34:37,359
about

1023
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,720
all of the skill checks and you know

1024
00:34:37,359 --> 00:34:40,560
getting those certain bumps and the

1025
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:41,359
magic items that let you do this special

1026
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,440
thing

1027
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:46,240
as opposed to

1028
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,159
the fun of yeah i just describe what

1029
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:49,919
happens narratively and it happens

1030
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,679
because you know i have a high enough

1031
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:53,760
stat you know those are two very

1032
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,599
different kinds of fun that depending on

1033
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,200
the day of the week it kind of depends

1034
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:59,040
on which one you're in the mood for

1035
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,880
absolutely you know i've

1036
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,760
said to many times more time my own

1037
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,079
players

1038
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,520
in fact that that same player who you

1039
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:07,359
know turned up at

1040
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,599
11 p.m with a half-baked character i've

1041
00:35:07,359 --> 00:35:11,760
said to him before in the past like hey

1042
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:13,119
i've noticed some friction with your

1043
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,280
interaction with the world or even

1044
00:35:13,119 --> 00:35:16,400
playing have you considered playing this

1045
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,320
other system

1046
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,560
this other framework that is more

1047
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,160
conducive to that play style because

1048
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,520
you're trying to put a square peg in a

1049
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,440
round hole sometimes the round hole

1050
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,400
being fifth edition

1051
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,160
and

1052
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,119
maybe if we can find you a square hole

1053
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,839
you'll have

1054
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:33,680
a lot more fun to not yeah deftly skirt

1055
00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:36,240
around any uh

1056
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,800
euphemisms there but uh

1057
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:40,560
so yeah it's a consequence of the game

1058
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,400
system you pick to

1059
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,079
butcher a way of trying to bring us back

1060
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,720
onto

1061
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:48,400
yes yes just trying crowbar us back onto

1062
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:50,160
the to the track i guess the consequence

1063
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,880
of us having too much fun is uh

1064
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:55,880
get rid of we got off topic yeah ever so

1065
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,880
slightly

1066
00:36:00,390 --> 00:36:06,000
[Music]

1067
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:08,480
yes it's it's oh it's all this

1068
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,000
interconnectedness but uh one

1069
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,119
question i was going to have for you

1070
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,960
then is have you got any stand out like

1071
00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:17,280
any classic

1072
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,040
surprise pikachu face consequences for

1073
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,200
your for your players in your career has

1074
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,720
there ever been any bits that you've i

1075
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,720
don't wanna say blindsided them because

1076
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,880
that suggests that it was unfair or

1077
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:27,680
whatever but any moments that were like

1078
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,880
oh

1079
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,079
yeah

1080
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,000
whoops

1081
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:34,000
we messed up yeah

1082
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,160
like you know because

1083
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,400
a big thing is that

1084
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,320
realizing that you know consequences has

1085
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,359
a negative connotation

1086
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,000
but

1087
00:36:41,359 --> 00:36:46,079
when a character fails at something

1088
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,720
that's usually where

1089
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:50,079
some of the coolest storytelling comes

1090
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:52,320
from

1091
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:54,640
you know we we don't go into a movie

1092
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,079
theater to watch the character succeed

1093
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,079
in their final goal in the first 10

1094
00:36:56,079 --> 00:37:00,640
minutes no they fail a bunch

1095
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:02,160
and then we get to see their rise to

1096
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,680
glory

1097
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,280
and so i think just you know keeping

1098
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,599
that in mind that

1099
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,920
if you can make the players and yourself

1100
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:13,359
see that the consequences are

1101
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,599
how much fun they can be or how much um

1102
00:37:13,359 --> 00:37:17,440
consequence they can have in the story

1103
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:19,359
that you're telling um one of my

1104
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,200
favorite ones is

1105
00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:23,359
they were dealing with this

1106
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,560
person who could generate a lot of

1107
00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:28,640
offspring okay and they were able to

1108
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,440
kill this creature

1109
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,680
but

1110
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,680
one of the offspring got away

1111
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,760
and then like

1112
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,520
three seasons later

1113
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:41,040
they came across another one of this

1114
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,560
offspring and realized that it was like

1115
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,880
the great great

1116
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,480
granddaughter of this thing they had

1117
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,440
fought so long ago and because they

1118
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,440
didn't

1119
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,960
deal with all of them

1120
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,560
here was another one that had come

1121
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,560
looking for them

1122
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,359
and so just just those little things i

1123
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,720
my favorite consequences are

1124
00:37:57,359 --> 00:38:00,240
when they're like we gotta put a pin in

1125
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:02,000
that and deal with that later yeah and

1126
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,760
then they forget

1127
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,920
and then you can bring that moment back

1128
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,960
up later and there's always just such a

1129
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,680
good

1130
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,760
reaction at the table of oh my god i

1131
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,839
forgot about that

1132
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,000
and it is that oh if it isn't the con

1133
00:38:13,839 --> 00:38:18,240
the uh ramifications of my own actions

1134
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,599
yeah yeah yeah yeah i know i love that

1135
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,560
as well it's such a machiavellian

1136
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:24,960
delight as a gm to be like i'm gonna

1137
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,720
remember that you guys might not but

1138
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,280
yeah i in the world are definitely gonna

1139
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,040
remember that uh a couple of examples

1140
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,359
from my game um

1141
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,359
my players they went to a

1142
00:38:33,359 --> 00:38:37,440
jewellers i guess jewelry shop that was

1143
00:38:35,359 --> 00:38:39,040
run by a

1144
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,160
less than

1145
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,560
legal goblin in my fantasy world

1146
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,320
who you know is he was called sleaze i

1147
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,000
think that pretty much speaks for itself

1148
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,800
right it was

1149
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,240
it was a dodgy venture

1150
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,079
from from the outset

1151
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:56,480
he was clearly

1152
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:58,720
not legal and uh

1153
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,839
they still attempted to

1154
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:03,040
like swindle him and rob and steal

1155
00:39:01,839 --> 00:39:04,640
from this

1156
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,720
this goblin who's

1157
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,160
yeah i mean by himself it's just one

1158
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:09,359
dude in a shop

1159
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,680
trying to sell you some diamonds so you

1160
00:39:09,359 --> 00:39:13,599
can revive your friends but like

1161
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,960
how did he get that shop and where did

1162
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:16,720
he get all these diamonds from all these

1163
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,560
other questions so long story short is

1164
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,000
they they tried to swindle them didn't

1165
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,440
quite work it didn't

1166
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,680
explode at that point there wasn't like

1167
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,760
royal initiative everyone fights okay

1168
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,839
close the book on that it ended as

1169
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,960
amicable as it could have done but for

1170
00:39:29,839 --> 00:39:35,040
me as the dm i was very much like

1171
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,960
yeah he's got connections

1172
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,040
like that goblin network in my world is

1173
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,880
extensive and they all you know they're

1174
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,560
all in cahoots and

1175
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,680
he's got you know bigger brothers that

1176
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,400
are

1177
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,079
gonna pay the the players a visit shall

1178
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,520
we say at some point down the line for

1179
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:51,040
like bullying this

1180
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,400
you know the store owner at this point

1181
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,240
so i'm like yep

1182
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,839
that's that's just pop that

1183
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,520
put that little in my little post-it

1184
00:39:55,839 --> 00:39:59,599
note somewhere we'll just let that let

1185
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,520
that stew for a couple of months and

1186
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:04,000
we'll see you know and i am very much

1187
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,000
looking forward to that come up and to

1188
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,440
sound like a parent just long enough

1189
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,760
yeah for them to have forgotten about

1190
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,760
yeah precisely and then i also wanted to

1191
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,760
add a positive spin

1192
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,440
so recently the only two surviving

1193
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,560
player characters there's a cataclysm in

1194
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,240
the big city

1195
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,720
you know there was a bunch of mp you

1196
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:23,200
know half the population was

1197
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,880
unfortunately killed for various plot

1198
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,000
reasons and

1199
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,560
long story short is that the two

1200
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:32,160
surviving player characters one is this

1201
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:35,440
charlatan warlock who is very old style

1202
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,560
no substance very manipulative very

1203
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,200
typically

1204
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,640
warlocky you know flamboyant flashy

1205
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,040
doesn't have a lifter finger but tells

1206
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,560
everybody he lifts both hands so when he

1207
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,079
was leaving the city he was like tell

1208
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,079
everybody you know that it was me that

1209
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:49,760
saved the day and i'm the one the reason

1210
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:51,200
you're still here alive

1211
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,200
but then left them well they're

1212
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,400
literally in like humanitarian relief

1213
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,880
efforts

1214
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,400
whereas the other one is a

1215
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:03,119
goliath bloodhunter barbarian but very

1216
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,640
kind-hearted kind souled so when i

1217
00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:06,079
as i did with the walk before him on his

1218
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,359
way out of the city i was like there's

1219
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:08,640
relief efforts and they're asking you

1220
00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:10,480
know all hands on deck we need to clear

1221
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,400
the rubble this that and the other he

1222
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,400
was like yeah okay i'll go and help i'm

1223
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,680
way stronger than these people so i was

1224
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,200
like okay what do you you know what do

1225
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,880
you do and here's the kind of things you

1226
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:22,079
can do and how long do you want to spend

1227
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,960
doing it like the day i thought a week

1228
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:24,640
or

1229
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,240
just resolve this one small issue they

1230
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,240
have to find this one missing person and

1231
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,440
then go and he's like oh you know i

1232
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,440
spent a day you know eight hours or

1233
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,079
whatnot and i was like yeah and narrated

1234
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,440
it they love you they you know they are

1235
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:37,119
so thankful for your efforts like any

1236
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,720
time you come back you'll have a place

1237
00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:40,000
to say you know you've you've saved the

1238
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,040
lives of like 10 people because you've

1239
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,480
been clearing all this rubble because

1240
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,480
you're a huge strong barbarian thank you

1241
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,960
thank you thank you so he left so you

1242
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,200
kind of got two different parallel

1243
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,040
stories there now one of my other

1244
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,319
characters one of my other players who

1245
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,280
is rebuilding another character he's

1246
00:41:52,319 --> 00:41:54,319
come back

1247
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,160
and

1248
00:41:54,319 --> 00:41:57,839
one of the ways that his new character

1249
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,000
has been introduced to the party is

1250
00:41:57,839 --> 00:42:02,400
because he's like oh yeah i heard of

1251
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,000
your two exploits you're the two saviors

1252
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,319
of this city right

1253
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,480
and of course the warlock is like

1254
00:42:06,319 --> 00:42:10,319
yes god like you

1255
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,160
they they know me they've heard of me i

1256
00:42:10,319 --> 00:42:13,680
didn't do anything whereas it's very

1257
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,520
humble and modest

1258
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,319
you know goliath barbarian is like oh

1259
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:20,560
yeah i guess i helped a bit

1260
00:42:18,319 --> 00:42:21,359
but my point being is that hey you've

1261
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,440
got

1262
00:42:21,359 --> 00:42:24,319
there if you feel fortunate enough like

1263
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,079
i am

1264
00:42:24,319 --> 00:42:28,319
you can have players

1265
00:42:26,079 --> 00:42:30,560
even build off each other's you know

1266
00:42:28,319 --> 00:42:33,200
provide consequences to the other

1267
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,720
players actions and be it's in a good

1268
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,920
it's in a favorable light yes there was

1269
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:38,079
a bit of deception on the part of the

1270
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,079
warlock but broadly

1271
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:42,720
i guess he did save some of them in

1272
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:44,800
indirectly but um it's in a favorable

1273
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:46,079
idea isn't this the world's going to

1274
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,839
explode in seven weeks because you

1275
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:50,560
forgot to turn the the oven off before

1276
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:52,319
you left for adventuring like it's right

1277
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,119
it's like you had this stuff and now

1278
00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:55,599
people

1279
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:57,440
people have heard of you in the world

1280
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:59,359
for your good deeds so yes that was that

1281
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,599
was my two examples i just wanted to

1282
00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:03,359
very very recent examples that i wanted

1283
00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:06,400
to mention there is perhaps an

1284
00:43:03,359 --> 00:43:07,599
inspiration for for other people yeah

1285
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,280
you know introducing a new character is

1286
00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:13,760
always tricky both from the player and

1287
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:16,000
the gm so that was like such an easy win

1288
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,359
for both me and the player to be like

1289
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,280
yes you've heard of their exploits

1290
00:43:17,359 --> 00:43:20,640
absolutely great i love it you're now

1291
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,319
best friends as soon as you've turned up

1292
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,920
they're ready to have you in the party

1293
00:43:22,319 --> 00:43:25,280
which is always that tricky question to

1294
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,800
be like why do you want an adventure

1295
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,480
with you yeah

1296
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,440
well and it's you know it's really nice

1297
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,800
too

1298
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,720
you know again we're talking about

1299
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,079
consequences

1300
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,319
but to also

1301
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:38,319
balance that with

1302
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:39,440
like you just said the things that you

1303
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:40,960
take note of the things that you

1304
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,119
remember

1305
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,720
that hit them in a positive way that oh

1306
00:43:43,119 --> 00:43:47,359
yeah you helped this

1307
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:48,880
little girl do this thing and

1308
00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:51,599
later on when you're in this tough

1309
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,200
situation and people don't believe you

1310
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:54,880
you know who you see in the audience

1311
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,720
it's that little girl and she stands up

1312
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,160
and starts talking in your on your

1313
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:59,280
behalf and

1314
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,400
that you know

1315
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,480
if you

1316
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,920
want to be and and you should be

1317
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,160
meticulous

1318
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,650
with crafting your consequences

1319
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,240
you know putting as much energy into

1320
00:44:08,650 --> 00:44:13,040
[Music]

1321
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:15,359
crafting rewards for things that they do

1322
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,720
is is super important and goes back into

1323
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:18,800
that whole like

1324
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:21,040
building a trust at a table

1325
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,880
where everyone feels comfortable helping

1326
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,920
generate consequences for another player

1327
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,079
that seem fair and and whatnot

1328
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,200
yeah absolutely absolutely you gotta

1329
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:31,520
it's it's

1330
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:34,160
both sides of the coin you need to

1331
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,240
fulfill as a gm otherwise you do

1332
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,760
build you do foster unfortunately that

1333
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:39,599
them versus us

1334
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,520
mentality because it is very one way and

1335
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:42,480
that absolutely needs to be two ways if

1336
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,359
of course the players and their

1337
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,760
characters are providing you

1338
00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:47,760
opportunities to it's a pretty rewarding

1339
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,640
recognition um which is often not the

1340
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,160
case as we discussed earlier on but uh

1341
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,960
a good example of what you just

1342
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,960
mentioned there is in um in a video game

1343
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,880
resident evil 4 like right at the

1344
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,520
beginning there's like a wolf trapped in

1345
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,040
a

1346
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,359
bear trap

1347
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,520
and you hear it kind of whining and you

1348
00:45:03,359 --> 00:45:07,839
can go up and you can you can let it out

1349
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,359
and it you know runs off into the forest

1350
00:45:07,839 --> 00:45:10,880
and disappears and as a player the first

1351
00:45:09,359 --> 00:45:12,800
time i you know i vividly remember doing

1352
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,480
this however many years ago when i first

1353
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,119
was playing it through on

1354
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,520
gamecube i think if memory serves

1355
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:22,000
and you're like oh okay that was

1356
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:24,240
cool and then i think at the first like

1357
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,400
mini boss you fight at one point the

1358
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:27,599
wolf comes in and literally like as you

1359
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,960
describe like it's literally on the edge

1360
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:31,520
of the arena that you're fighting this

1361
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,760
boss in it howls jumps into the arena

1362
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,680
and then distracts the boss so you can

1363
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,400
get a bunch of hits in and get like a

1364
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,319
freebie in and that's a that's a classic

1365
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,960
very linear very

1366
00:45:40,319 --> 00:45:45,280
binary one one one direction this is a

1367
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,480
very good example of just that how clean

1368
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,720
and crisp sometimes it has to be it

1369
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,800
doesn't have to be this six months later

1370
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:52,319
the tree that you planted the seed that

1371
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,240
you planted grew into a mighty oak and

1372
00:45:52,319 --> 00:45:56,400
now there's a new village that live in

1373
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:57,839
the tree you know it doesn't need to be

1374
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,240
that complicated sometimes it can be as

1375
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:02,079
simple as hey you fed that dog and now

1376
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:04,319
the dog wants to follow you here

1377
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:04,319
yeah

1378
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,720
now

1379
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:11,200
we've talked an awful lot about

1380
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:13,280
consequences in universe in game for

1381
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,560
better and for worse now obviously there

1382
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,640
are

1383
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,800
it's an all-in-game we are playing with

1384
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:21,200
other human beings and human beings as

1385
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,119
i've previously mentioned are imperfect

1386
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,640
and sometimes there are you know people

1387
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:26,160
make mistakes people play in a different

1388
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,599
way that you don't want them to play

1389
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,680
what i am

1390
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:31,839
getting to is have you ever had the

1391
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,280
unfortunate experience of

1392
00:46:31,839 --> 00:46:35,040
you know having to

1393
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,880
perhaps have quote unquote the

1394
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,760
discussion with a player to be like hey

1395
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:42,000
this isn't this isn't working because of

1396
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,920
your actions or because of what's

1397
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,200
happening here or

1398
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,200
hey we've talked about this and it's

1399
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,119
still an issue maybe you might want to

1400
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,119
think about a different table that

1401
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:53,520
suits your predilections have you ever

1402
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:55,760
been in that unfortunate position yeah

1403
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:58,880
once or twice um

1404
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,920
where it it ultimately comes up to

1405
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,200
you know kind of what we talked about

1406
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,319
earlier

1407
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,079
people's

1408
00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:05,839
game styles

1409
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:06,960
their play styles bumping into one

1410
00:47:05,839 --> 00:47:10,000
another

1411
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,079
um you know i've been super fortunate in

1412
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,160
that i've never had to deal with some of

1413
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:16,960
the much more uncomfortable reasons why

1414
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,800
that would be an issue i've been a part

1415
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,000
of those talks but never the game master

1416
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,480
at that table

1417
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,079
but it is it's you know sometimes it's

1418
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,359
about

1419
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:27,359
finding

1420
00:47:25,359 --> 00:47:28,880
the right game for the group you know if

1421
00:47:27,359 --> 00:47:30,079
it's like it's oh this is our group and

1422
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,680
this is who we always play with and

1423
00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:33,040
we're playing this game

1424
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,200
and there's a lot of friction between

1425
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,280
these two players okay is that friction

1426
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,400
normally there

1427
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,559
if so

1428
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,079
what's the cause of it

1429
00:47:40,559 --> 00:47:43,680
and

1430
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:45,680
you know finding out like you said

1431
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:49,040
earlier is there is there a different

1432
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,040
hole to try that peggy

1433
00:47:49,359 --> 00:47:53,200
but then when it comes to pick pickup

1434
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:56,559
groups and things like that

1435
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,599
i find that it's best to deal with it as

1436
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,520
quickly

1437
00:47:57,599 --> 00:48:03,280
as possible yeah you know whenever we

1438
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:05,119
run games at a convention we always have

1439
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,200
lines and veils that people fill out

1440
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:08,720
beforehand and then we also have an x

1441
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,160
card on the table

1442
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:11,440
and you know for anybody unfamiliar with

1443
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,400
the x card

1444
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:16,960
if one if a player holds up the x card

1445
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:19,680
whatever was just said you basically

1446
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,119
rewind and you do it a different way

1447
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,280
it's a way for someone to say like hey

1448
00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:25,440
this makes me uncomfortable without

1449
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,119
having to go into why yeah

1450
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,480
and so

1451
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:30,800
there have been moments where you have

1452
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,079
to pull someone aside and say hey like i

1453
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,440
realize that you're playing this

1454
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:35,599
character

1455
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,720
this way like you want to be let's say

1456
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:40,960
the hard-boiled detective who

1457
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:43,040
because of the time period

1458
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,079
is a womanizer

1459
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:50,160
but you can't talk to other players like

1460
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:53,280
that so how can we still create the feel

1461
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,920
that you want of this loner

1462
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,280
without encroaching on someone else's

1463
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,880
enjoyment of the game because i mean

1464
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,720
ultimately that's what it boils down to

1465
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,559
we want to make sure as the game master

1466
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:04,640
that everybody at the table

1467
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:06,480
is having a good time

1468
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,800
and as soon as one person isn't having a

1469
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,280
good time especially if it's because of

1470
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,040
you know the actions of another player

1471
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,400
that's when a game master's job becomes

1472
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,599
work

1473
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:19,119
as opposed to you know we talked earlier

1474
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:22,240
about like oh poor me i've got to do all

1475
00:49:19,119 --> 00:49:24,480
this work but it can become work yeah

1476
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:26,240
when it just becomes about

1477
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,559
figuring out

1478
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:30,720
if it's a problem player or a problem

1479
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:33,440
character yeah

1480
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:35,760
well i'm i count myself as well in just

1481
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,520
a fortunate position as yourself where i

1482
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:40,240
haven't had to have any of those two too

1483
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,520
many difficult discussions but

1484
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:43,520
you see a lot of them online i've

1485
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,960
mentioned it many times before of people

1486
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,680
being like

1487
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,119
one of my players was hideously racist

1488
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,599
how do i deal with this and i'm like

1489
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:53,200
well this isn't really a ttrpg question

1490
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:56,400
at this point this is just

1491
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:58,400
this is just a racist person question

1492
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,319
yeah and you just deal with how you

1493
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,720
would deal with the someone doing that

1494
00:50:00,319 --> 00:50:05,119
in any given thing you do in your daily

1495
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:07,680
life as normal right like there's no

1496
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:10,839
need to come to reddit for that

1497
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,720
what's your gut reaction shut them down

1498
00:50:10,839 --> 00:50:15,359
please yeah

1499
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:17,920
and uh so yeah that always

1500
00:50:15,359 --> 00:50:20,319
i don't know i don't know for why

1501
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,640
because i can't think of

1502
00:50:20,319 --> 00:50:25,280
another medium where this is a problem

1503
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:27,440
so like for example like football has

1504
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,599
soccer for my american listeners

1505
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,359
it's absurd in the uk has at least had

1506
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:33,359
uh how should we say this a storied

1507
00:50:31,359 --> 00:50:35,359
history funnily enough when it comes to

1508
00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:36,720
racism and that isn't a football problem

1509
00:50:35,359 --> 00:50:38,640
that's just an

1510
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:42,160
english person problem to paint my

1511
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:43,440
country in a horrible light oh my god um

1512
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,359
but like no one's like oh we need to

1513
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,640
change the rules of the game or like we

1514
00:50:45,359 --> 00:50:48,400
need to

1515
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,800
dance around this topic and ask why this

1516
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,960
player isn't having fun in the same way

1517
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,640
like it's that's not a dtrpg question

1518
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,559
and you don't need to cater or panda

1519
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,280
like this but that is an egregious

1520
00:50:56,559 --> 00:51:01,040
example i know but it eventually gets to

1521
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,559
that point where

1522
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,960
that person has to have the consequences

1523
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:06,319
to their action and there is a

1524
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,760
i want to say

1525
00:51:06,319 --> 00:51:09,839
simplicity

1526
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,520
but there is an an elegance in the

1527
00:51:09,839 --> 00:51:13,920
solution which is to say

1528
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,920
goodbye leave my game now

1529
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,359
like right you're not playing with us

1530
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,200
anymore and for some reason i find

1531
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:21,359
there's a lot of preciousness around

1532
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:23,680
kicking people out of games which is the

1533
00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:26,000
logical conclusion of

1534
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:28,400
such an egregious example of

1535
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,760
being a bad human being

1536
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,079
almost like people feel like they are

1537
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:34,960
denying somebody else

1538
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:36,800
this fun that we talk about so often and

1539
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,359
again it's just i don't know it's just a

1540
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,359
weird discussion point for my for my

1541
00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:43,040
brain why people feel that way

1542
00:51:41,359 --> 00:51:44,960
why there is oppressiveness about

1543
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,960
kicking people out of the game when some

1544
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:50,000
examples i've read have literally been

1545
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:51,359
that bad yeah and they're still like oh

1546
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,400
i can't kick him from a game because

1547
00:51:51,359 --> 00:51:54,480
he's

1548
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,359
you know my colleague or i work with him

1549
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,280
okay

1550
00:51:55,359 --> 00:51:59,040
completely pointless bits of information

1551
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:02,079
that have no bearing on what's just

1552
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,680
occurred here but fine

1553
00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:04,720
he could be your dad and like or you

1554
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,400
know

1555
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:08,160
your partner and you the discussion

1556
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,839
would be very similar

1557
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,440
yeah like i'm gonna say this and it's

1558
00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:13,040
gonna sound like i'm being

1559
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:15,599
tongue-in-cheek and i'm i'm really not

1560
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:17,599
but you know you have these people

1561
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:20,079
who are

1562
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:21,520
so concerned about the consequences of

1563
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:24,000
if i kick

1564
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,079
this person out of my game

1565
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:30,319
what are the ramifications gonna be at

1566
00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:31,440
my job on my commute on my whatever

1567
00:52:30,319 --> 00:52:32,800
yeah

1568
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,839
and you know there's also that element

1569
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,559
too of

1570
00:52:33,839 --> 00:52:40,000
and it's not maybe as much of a problem

1571
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:41,839
anymore yeah because of you know what's

1572
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,400
happened in the pandemic and kind of the

1573
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:46,720
influx of people playing games online

1574
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:50,559
over skype or discord or whatever

1575
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:51,920
but there also used to be a real

1576
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,440
well we can't kick them out because we

1577
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,960
don't have another

1578
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,400
player

1579
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,720
and if it's just the three of us we

1580
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,319
can't really play a game yeah and so

1581
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:01,760
there was there was a time period i

1582
00:53:00,319 --> 00:53:03,599
think where there was that weird like

1583
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:06,000
well you just got to deal with whoever's

1584
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:08,480
willing to play because only a handful

1585
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,240
of people are interested in playing but

1586
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,359
in today's space if you're dealing with

1587
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:13,839
somebody

1588
00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:15,760
who is problematic for yourself or the

1589
00:53:13,839 --> 00:53:18,559
other players of the story

1590
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:21,760
man just join a discord and find someone

1591
00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:24,319
who wants to to skype into your game and

1592
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:26,839
don't have that thorn in your boot

1593
00:53:24,319 --> 00:53:29,520
thank you for spinning my

1594
00:53:26,839 --> 00:53:31,040
inadvertently sad topic of discussion in

1595
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,040
term positive at the end now i was well

1596
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,200
worried we were going to close and like

1597
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,960
people human suck

1598
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,440
but no

1599
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,359
you you've redeemed the episode

1600
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,260
don't get me wrong some humans suck

1601
00:53:41,359 --> 00:53:44,240
that'll be your chest

1602
00:53:42,260 --> 00:53:46,240
[Laughter]

1603
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:48,319
but oh yes you you've you've redeemed

1604
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:50,640
the episode to be like no the hobby is

1605
00:53:48,319 --> 00:53:53,359
so good now and so popular that there's

1606
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:55,599
always people to fill those gaps so

1607
00:53:53,359 --> 00:53:57,520
you know every cloud which is

1608
00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:59,440
far better to end on than

1609
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,119
whatever i was talking about so

1610
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,240
thank you ever so much for that

1611
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:03,760
um

1612
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:06,400
is there anything that you wanted to

1613
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,520
talk about that we haven't got to yet

1614
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,920
um

1615
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,480
no not really i think you know like i

1616
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,400
said i started out playing earth dawn

1617
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,640
and then i played pathfinder

1618
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:19,040
and that's exclusively what i played for

1619
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,800
a very long time

1620
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,400
and

1621
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,240
starting to play

1622
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,280
you know monster of the week dungeon

1623
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,640
world

1624
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,359
you know any of these powered by the

1625
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:32,079
apocalypse games or fake games

1626
00:54:29,359 --> 00:54:34,240
i didn't realize

1627
00:54:32,079 --> 00:54:36,319
how much i was missing until i started

1628
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:38,079
playing other games

1629
00:54:36,319 --> 00:54:39,280
and it's just it's you know that would

1630
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:41,119
be my one

1631
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,000
my one thing is like

1632
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:43,440
hey

1633
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,200
next time you're at a convention or next

1634
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,640
time someone brings up a new game like

1635
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,160
give it a shot even if you don't play it

1636
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,520
right you're going to find some really

1637
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,440
cool stuff

1638
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,799
because you know d and d has become the

1639
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,720
gold standard because it's been around

1640
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:56,079
so long and it's been you know made so

1641
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:57,760
popular by

1642
00:54:56,079 --> 00:54:59,680
um you know things like critical role or

1643
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,760
the adventure zone

1644
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:04,000
but even they end up branching into

1645
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:07,040
another game every now and then and and

1646
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,960
you can really see the story

1647
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,520
take a different shape

1648
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,799
and a lot of them are so simple to learn

1649
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,760
you know you think of like i don't want

1650
00:55:12,799 --> 00:55:15,200
to learn a new game because you're

1651
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,280
thinking of

1652
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,200
learning something the size of

1653
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:21,040
pathfinder or the something the size of

1654
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,280
dungeon and dragons where a lot of these

1655
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,359
games are one you know 100 page book and

1656
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,200
that's all you need to play

1657
00:55:25,359 --> 00:55:29,119
yeah i must admit i suffer from that

1658
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,799
train of thought of being like

1659
00:55:29,119 --> 00:55:32,880
no matter how much i've played my

1660
00:55:30,799 --> 00:55:34,480
precious fifth edition session to

1661
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,319
session there's still these education

1662
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,920
these niche questions come up that's

1663
00:55:36,319 --> 00:55:39,920
like oh you're carrying but can you

1664
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,200
throw or how many hands do you need to

1665
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,839
do this and this that and the other and

1666
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:46,720
so there's there's never an end to

1667
00:55:43,839 --> 00:55:48,480
the rules based questioning so that when

1668
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:50,000
somebody does suggest do you want to

1669
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:53,040
learn a new system i'm like man i don't

1670
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:54,720
even learn this one yet yeah but

1671
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,040
give me some give me another five years

1672
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:58,400
maybe and we'll get there but uh

1673
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,559
but no i think you're absolutely right

1674
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,200
and that it's they are not you know not

1675
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:05,280
everything has to be that weird

1676
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,280
niche edge case issue for the next five

1677
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,720
years you can just pick it up and play

1678
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,920
and i'm being an extreme hypocrite here

1679
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:11,440
having not had a huge amount of

1680
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,110
experience but

1681
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,839
such is life

1682
00:56:12,110 --> 00:56:15,359
[Laughter]

1683
00:56:13,839 --> 00:56:17,839
we are

1684
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:17,839
a multitude

1685
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:22,400
absolutely absolutely

1686
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,160
cool well uh

1687
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:27,520
thank you ever so much for today's

1688
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:29,920
discussion i'm super stoked with

1689
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:32,000
everything we've discussed i personally

1690
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,520
i i really wanted to talk about that

1691
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,960
you know get some examples of the

1692
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,880
surprise pikachu face because as we

1693
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,079
discussed that it's just there's just

1694
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,000
you know that machiavellian delight

1695
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:41,920
there that can't be that can't that's it

1696
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,599
can't be scratched by many by many other

1697
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,440
things so yeah

1698
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:48,880
we talked about that and then also

1699
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:51,119
obviously the the real world issues um

1700
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,839
and i think because it is that is

1701
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:55,280
important we you and i are in the main

1702
00:56:53,839 --> 00:56:56,799
fortunate enough to have not had that

1703
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,720
but it is exceptionally important to

1704
00:56:56,799 --> 00:57:00,240
many other people so i'm i'm very

1705
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:02,559
thankful for for your insight and your

1706
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:04,559
input on on things such as the you know

1707
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:07,280
the the x card and the

1708
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:08,960
veils and and so on and so on so thank

1709
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,839
you very much for all that

1710
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,640
is

1711
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:14,960
there anything you would like to promote

1712
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,720
uh i mean really if you're interested in

1713
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,880
um learning some of these powered by the

1714
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,880
apocalypse games uh you can find us at

1715
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,160
thecritsshowpodcast.com

1716
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,040
and uh

1717
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:27,359
at the crit show most on most everything

1718
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:30,000
and we

1719
00:57:27,359 --> 00:57:32,000
run our game um in a way that

1720
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,280
after the first story arc you should

1721
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,960
feel comfortable sitting down and

1722
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,720
playing it yourself

1723
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,799
um you know we we try to explain the

1724
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,319
rules as we go without stopping the flow

1725
00:57:38,799 --> 00:57:42,240
of the action so it's a lot of

1726
00:57:40,319 --> 00:57:43,599
explaining how mechanics work to the

1727
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,720
players as they're dealing with them for

1728
00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:47,119
the first time

1729
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,559
and we keep our episodes we come out

1730
00:57:47,119 --> 00:57:51,200
every wednesday

1731
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:54,319
uh and episodes are usually between

1732
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:55,920
35 to 55 minutes so they're very

1733
00:57:54,319 --> 00:57:58,160
digestible and you'll learn a whole

1734
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,319
bunch of new systems but it'll still be

1735
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,640
the same narrative as we go through

1736
00:58:00,319 --> 00:58:03,920
amazing very cool very unique idea i

1737
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,200
think you opened the show with that kind

1738
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,000
of shared

1739
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,359
universe thing yeah which i'm gonna have

1740
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,799
to have you back on again to discuss the

1741
00:58:09,359 --> 00:58:12,720
consequences of running something like

1742
00:58:10,799 --> 00:58:13,760
that uh which is something that we

1743
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,839
didn't get to that i wanted to talk

1744
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,680
about but uh we'll save that one for for

1745
00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:20,079
round two

1746
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,920
no uh so all that's left to say is is

1747
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:22,880
thank you ever so much rev for joining

1748
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,359
us today

1749
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:28,000
yeah my pleasure thanks for having me

1750
00:58:25,359 --> 00:58:31,200
uh thank you everybody for

1751
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,599
listening at home as usual

1752
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,440
all the links to the crit show will be

1753
00:58:33,599 --> 00:58:37,280
in the episode description and i of

1754
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,880
course very much encourage you to check

1755
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,280
them out and drop them a rating as well

1756
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,599
on spotify and the apples and the

1757
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,880
such likes as you could of course do for

1758
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:46,799
thinking critically should you be

1759
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,079
feeling exceptionally generous

1760
00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:50,400
otherwise

1761
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:51,359
thank you all for listening and good

1762
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,960
night

1763
00:58:51,359 --> 00:58:53,920
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1764
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,119
outs

1765
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:59,839
thank you to robert hartley dm for viva

1766
00:58:57,119 --> 00:59:02,079
la dirt league and writer on the d d

1767
00:58:59,839 --> 00:59:03,680
logic web series

1768
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:06,480
i would encourage everybody to check him

1769
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,520
out at robert hartley gm on twitter and

1770
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,760
twitch

1771
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:12,160
thank you to optional rule a two time

1772
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,960
guest of the show and a very insightful

1773
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:19,680
and knowledgeable source of information

1774
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:22,480
please check them out at www dot

1775
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,960
huge huge huge thank you to a great

1776
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:27,440
friend of the show matthew perkins who's

1777
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,760
out there making hilarious and

1778
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,640
educational dungeons and dragons content

1779
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,280
please go and check out his stuff at

1780
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:35,760
matthewperkins.net where you can find

1781
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:37,280
links to all of his socials and all of

1782
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,960
his content including his own patreon

1783
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,720
which i would very much encourage you to

1784
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,680
check out

1785
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,680
thank you to matt street at mpstreet88

1786
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,280
on twitter for supporting the show if

1787
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,799
you need support running your personal

1788
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:52,079
or business schedule head to

1789
00:59:49,799 --> 00:59:53,760
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1790
00:59:52,079 --> 00:59:55,839
make that difference between should do

1791
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,599
and done boss it better with support

1792
00:59:55,839 --> 00:59:59,920
from cat who will help you get back that

1793
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:01,359
essential time you've been searching for

1794
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:03,280
if you would like to support what we do

1795
01:00:01,359 --> 01:00:06,000
and get four shout outs a month head

1796
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,520
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1797
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:11,500
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1798
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:18,520
kofi.com thinking critically

1799
01:00:11,500 --> 01:00:38,720
[Music]