Business

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welcome and happy new year thinkers to

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season 3 episode 10 of thinking

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critically i hope you all had a lovely

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christmas

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today's episode is business and stick

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around to the end for a holiday gift

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from our guest

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and today i'm joined by neil from

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paladin role playing thank you ever so

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much for joining us today neil can you

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tell us a little bit about yourself

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hi so

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yeah i've been role playing for

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a pretty long time

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without giving away how old i am i

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started

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with uh d or a d and d as it was called

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then of course uh second edition

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and why i'm a fancy roleplay first

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edition when that first came out they

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were my introduction to

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role-playing world

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and

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kept me going for many many happy years

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i guess

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like probably like a lot of people at

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least of my generation i think

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i i kind of

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not entirely drifted out of it as i got

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older um a bit you know just not not

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quite seriously didn't have as much time

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you know real life comes along and all

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that boring stuff you know it is

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and then sort of picked it up again a

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few years back

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and

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in 2017

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i'm pretty sure i think that's right um

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i

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started paladin role playing and

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we make

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dice and other accessories for

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role-playing games and so i've been much

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more kind of involved in the not just

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playing and running games but much more

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kind of involved in the role-playing

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world in the industry i guess in the

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last uh

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four or five years or so

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indeed and i mean

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i have a paladin pencil here i have my

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bag of holding downstairs and that's

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that's the genesis of

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this discussion is is from

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me you know finding you guys in line i

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think i did back the kickstart i do have

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the dice somewhere but then again i also

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have a lot of dice so

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um yes i did back there for the first

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kickstarter you guys did and that's you

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know way back probably

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yeah yeah not long after 2017 i imagine

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it probably was actually yeah it

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probably was

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yeah yeah and then picked up obviously

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these other few bits and bobs and then i

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was like let's let's get

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let's get let's get them on

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let's make it happen

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um so

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aptly the topic of today's discussion is

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business so what does that mean to you

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in the ttrpg framework

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well

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i think

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so this probably goes without saying but

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it may be worth saying anyway that

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for me

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starting

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a business

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in

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the role-playing world

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um was

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an attempt to try and make a living

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doing

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something or being involved with

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something that i love doing you know

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it's everyone's dream right you you want

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to get the job as the famous footballer

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or the whatever singer whatever it is

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you're into

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um

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and so

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i think as a as a small business owner

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uh but doing something that i love uh

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i'm trying to kind of get back to that

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almost

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no this is quite the right way to put it

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but i kind of think of that feudal sort

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of idea of where there's no distinction

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between work and play yeah and and so

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that's

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you know it doesn't always work out that

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way needless to say but um that's that's

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the aim is so i think

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my my hope anyway my kind of dream for

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for what business means to me

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uh is

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that it's not

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going to work

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and then that's that's the bit you hate

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and then you come home and you have and

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and then you have fun and then you have

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your nice uh off work time you know work

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and play separate is it's an attempt to

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make work also more like play

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that that's that's the dream

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you know how pertinent this is because

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literally i'm starting a new job next

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week here no way

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which isn't quite that ideal um but uh

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it is in that direction so uh yeah it's

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it's i'm i you know

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it's you know big kudos for stepping out

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there and trying to achieve that thing

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as you said that's that's the that's the

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golden goose right that's what

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yeah you know everybody everybody

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strives for yeah

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so

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i want one question then

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like although i am um you know i've

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studied business studies throughout my

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academic life so i'm aware of the

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academic side of business but then in

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terms of like

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running a tt rpg business are there any

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any anything specific to

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you know to the tt rpg space that would

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differentiate it from running say like a

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mcdonald's franchise that's a crap

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example because

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yes because one's a high street retail

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store that sells fast food but

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but you know what i mean

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yeah anything specific for for ttrpgs

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well i

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i think

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and you could probably say this about

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any any business i think you

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you probably have to

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be a gamer

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which obviously i am to to kind of

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understand the world but i guess that's

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you not unique to this space say the

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same for any business

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um but i think it's interesting we're in

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a

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you know this has been called i'm sure

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you've heard this people say this this

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has been called the golden age for

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tabletop role-playing yeah and i think

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that's right actually

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i don't think there's been a better time

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to be alive and being into tabletop

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role-playing and this the

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the growth

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of the area and the amount of creativity

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and the new games that are coming out

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all the time and kickstarter obviously

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has had a lot of

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uh it's had a lot to do with that and so

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what i think is happening though is that

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inevitably things are changing because

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as it becomes more popular

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and you know

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as an aside uh

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i love now that our hobby is

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like it's still a kind of nerdy geeky

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guy yeah obviously it always will be but

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it's kind of

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got a level of acceptability now isn't

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it do you know what i mean yeah and to

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the extent that i've got had a new new

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neighbor

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uh moved in literally uh like a month or

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so ago um and i met her for the first

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time you know outside on the street and

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you you know you obviously say hello

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and i happened to be wearing a paladin

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role-playing hoodie at the time and she

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sort of asked what i did and i kind of

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you know i gave her the sort of two-line

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introduction

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and always slightly you know i can't

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help but feel slightly kind of

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i don't know what's the word like uh not

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apprehensive but yeah not you don't

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censor it but there's it's tailored

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shall we say to her yeah yeah yeah yeah

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and and her reaction was oh cool yeah i

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played a bit of dungeon dragons a couple

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of years ago and i really want to play

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more and

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i think

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for you to say that you're into

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role-playing and for someone to say cool

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it is a thing now that happens

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we're not just the kind of uh

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kind of

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ridiculous nurse

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who just yeah exactly

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so anyway uh i can't remember where i

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was going that but um yeah so it's

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growing anyway i think it's growing and

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more people are aware of the hobby and

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then and the yeah this kind of world

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but i think that's going to change

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things and i hope it's not for the worse

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and particularly

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from a business point of view

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as it gets bigger and bigger and more

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more money comes into

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you know into play that will inevitably

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change things and now you know we're

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we're in a situation now where there are

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tt rpg

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superstars you've got you know yes

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matthew mercer and the libertarians yeah

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and and fair enough and i've got nothing

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against those guys and and critical role

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is great

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but

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you know they

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make and command big money and so that

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means big sponsorships

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and you know they've got the

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the sort of biggest companies obviously

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being wizards and paiso and

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they're growing and and i just hope that

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it doesn't all become more corporate and

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just more money oriented that's that's

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my fear that's like my worst case

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scenario

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i don't think it is yet

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and i hope it doesn't but i think we're

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in a time of change at least

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absolutely and i think one thing that's

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become clear since doing the show is

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that

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well that basically that it's a

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transitionary period uh i couldn't you

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know maybe at the beginning maybe

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approach approaching the middle i'm not

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sure but between you know talking to

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everybody from from all walks of life

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and whatnot there is there is definitely

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that sense i can definitely pick up from

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all these conversations that yeah it's

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definitely a time of

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change but one thing i wanted to add

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there you were mentioning you know like

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how or more mainstream it is and then

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the resources available and it was just

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making me think about and i know the two

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are there's a positive correlation

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between the two but obviously like

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between technology so like now if you

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want to change a tire or build your own

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pc you can just google it and see five

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billion youtubes about how to do it you

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know

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and my teenage nephews don't you know

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i'm only you know in my 30s back in my

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day uh you know

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[Laughter]

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i had to build my own computer and had

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to hope that the cpu would work with the

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mainboard now you can just get someone

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to do it for you for

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pennies um yeah and but the same thing

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is for ttrpg so i imagine back in the

286
00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:51,760
day before my time

287
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,920
that it was it was a lot of a smaller

288
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,320
niche fringe you know everything was

289
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,720
hard copies and books and you traded

290
00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,959
books and you only had paper sheets

291
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,040
whereas now you know and you know

292
00:10:00,959 --> 00:10:04,800
maybe there were more than more ttrpgs

293
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,200
but obviously dnd is the big the big

294
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,120
gear biggest one whereas now it's like

295
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,760
if you don't like dnd

296
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,680
okay we'll just google and go on hio or

297
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,640
kickstarter and there's 50 bazillion

298
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:18,399
other yeah roleplaying games that one of

299
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,000
those is gonna take all your boxes

300
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,000
and it's it could be free it could be

301
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,839
five pounds it could be you know

302
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,440
whatever and there could be a dedicated

303
00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:27,600
hardcore group of players out there that

304
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,440
are dying to play with you

305
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,839
you don't know how to roll a character

306
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,200
here's an online

307
00:10:30,839 --> 00:10:34,800
generator building an encounter here's

308
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,040
an online generator for you it's it's

309
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,000
like mad how

310
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,200
easy

311
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,959
it is

312
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,360
just to just to pick up and play

313
00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:45,680
anything like i i

314
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,399
it's for shame shame on me but i have

315
00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:48,079
not

316
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:50,160
really dipped my toe in those pools

317
00:10:48,079 --> 00:10:52,079
before but now you know if someone were

318
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,360
to just google i want to play a role

319
00:10:52,079 --> 00:10:55,360
playing game

320
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,279
they're laughing all the way to the bank

321
00:10:55,360 --> 00:11:00,000
absolutely and and the thing is for me

322
00:10:57,279 --> 00:11:01,519
that the you know the 50 gazillion games

323
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:05,279
that aren't d

324
00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:08,079
there's so much creativity

325
00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:10,480
in this in the ttrpg world and there's

326
00:11:08,079 --> 00:11:11,360
just some people doing amazing stuff and

327
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,680
so

328
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,279
it's at least in my opinion uh it's not

329
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,519
the case that you've got

330
00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:19,600
the sort of i don't know four or five

331
00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:21,760
big games maybe you know d d pathfinder

332
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,040
vampire or whatever yeah and they're the

333
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,519
only good ones and all the rest of

334
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,519
rubbish that's not the case at all

335
00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:29,440
those 50 gazillion games most of them

336
00:11:27,519 --> 00:11:31,200
are really good

337
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,000
and for me that's really exciting that

338
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,839
there's just this whole wealth of of

339
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,399
cool stuff to explore

340
00:11:35,839 --> 00:11:40,160
yeah yeah absolutely and then the other

341
00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:42,240
thing i wanted to mention there about

342
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,760
it's a concern that you've highlighted

343
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,800
to me now and now i'm also concerned

344
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:50,800
about it in terms of the uh

345
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,800
commercialization maybe shall we say and

346
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,720
it's

347
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,320
happened happening uh maybe i'm being

348
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,560
naive but there's always been an element

349
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,680
there with video games and certainly now

350
00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:04,320
with kind of like micro transactions and

351
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:07,200
um you know season passes and free to

352
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,480
play and all that kind of stuff that has

353
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,440
seen

354
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,440
uh certainly to the like original fans

355
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,079
has negatively impacted their experience

356
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,040
of

357
00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:18,959
of games and it is it's purely because

358
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,600
that's the way to make money

359
00:12:18,959 --> 00:12:24,240
nowadays is to offer these you know 30

360
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:27,040
quid a month for a season pass or which

361
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,040
i always find is weirdly ironic because

362
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,760
mmo rpgs obviously world of warcraft

363
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,120
being the dnd equivalent

364
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,639
you know that was mad back in the day

365
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,120
when i first started playing that to pay

366
00:12:34,639 --> 00:12:39,200
12 quid a month yeah right really

367
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,279
reluctant weren't they like yeah

368
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,639
yeah and then and then it so that was

369
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:44,079
fine and then it got really popular so

370
00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:46,720
everyone was like okay i guess this is

371
00:12:44,079 --> 00:12:48,399
normal but then it got out of fashion

372
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,160
again because people like well eve at

373
00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:51,839
the time was free and there's other ones

374
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,440
that are free and why would you pay that

375
00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:55,360
and then now suddenly everyone's paying

376
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,760
for season passes every month again

377
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,680
yeah right let's just keep going going

378
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,040
around in circles um

379
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,160
so yeah that that

380
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,760
that and obviously

381
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,839
a new one now is i think both cotton

382
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,600
battlefield are getting not a lot of

383
00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:09,120
love from from the fans because they're

384
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,519
like this is just

385
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,839
lazy cash crap at this point just to get

386
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:14,800
people to pay for xp boosts and whatnot

387
00:13:13,839 --> 00:13:16,320
um

388
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,440
and it's a shame for the fans because

389
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,399
you know they're their franchises and

390
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,920
they don't like to see them yeah

391
00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:23,120
absolutely of course you know turned

392
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:25,040
into these cash cows uh devoid of any

393
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,680
class or character so i think

394
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,120
i it was right for you to say like

395
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:31,200
that's definitely a path that could

396
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,399
happen because i think unfortunately a

397
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,200
natural

398
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:37,519
outcome of yeah capitalism

399
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,320
i think the one thing that we do have

400
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:41,040
massively in our favor is that

401
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,079
or

402
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,279
for to play a role playing game or table

403
00:13:44,079 --> 00:13:49,360
top role playing playing game

404
00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:52,079
specifically all you need is a book and

405
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,079
probably some dice maybe not even dice

406
00:13:52,079 --> 00:13:55,839
but you've probably got them anyway

407
00:13:54,079 --> 00:13:56,959
and so it's a very low barrier to entry

408
00:13:55,839 --> 00:13:58,880
it's very cheap in fact you don't even

409
00:13:56,959 --> 00:14:01,600
need a physical book you can get a pdf

410
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:04,800
most of the time yeah and so

411
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,639
it also makes it quite easy for a

412
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,160
creator or something maybe someone who's

413
00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:10,000
not even a creator yet but just someone

414
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,560
with an idea

415
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:15,440
to write something down and like say put

416
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:17,519
it on itch or kickstart it or whatever

417
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,360
and so i think it's quite

418
00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:21,760
accessible and so i think there'll

419
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,360
always be that grassroots

420
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,399
creator where you know not everyone can

421
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,399
sit down

422
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:30,959
on their own and write a video game

423
00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:33,040
just you know the skills needed are

424
00:14:30,959 --> 00:14:34,399
way beyond most people but

425
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,000
after you've played a certain number of

426
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:38,399
role-playing uh tabletop role-playing

427
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,120
games you you could actually think i've

428
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:43,920
got a cool idea and just do it and so i

429
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,440
think hopefully that kind of grassroots

430
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,279
thing of people doing their own stuff

431
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,480
and you know at the simplest level

432
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:51,760
you've got the likes of the kind of

433
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:54,399
one-page game yes yeah okay grant howard

434
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,480
has put out absolutely tons of them all

435
00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:58,880
with very silly names like sexy battle

436
00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:01,279
wizards

437
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,199
i can't think of any others though

438
00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:04,720
but yeah you remembered the best one so

439
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:06,720
yeah exactly yeah

440
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,199
in in sexy battle wizards you you have

441
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:12,160
three stats which are sexy battle and

442
00:15:09,199 --> 00:15:13,519
wizard okay yep good that's basically it

443
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,360
and the whole game's on one page one

444
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:17,120
piece of paper it's great

445
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,480
i was gonna say like along with

446
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,079
everybody you know

447
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,600
that that low barrier to entry as you

448
00:15:20,079 --> 00:15:24,160
said there's also

449
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,240
the simplistic side of things and

450
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,800
maybe uh simplistic is doing it a

451
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,399
disservice the concise side of things

452
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,680
you know where people are just like i

453
00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:33,920
want to have a role-playing experience

454
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,399
but i don't want to read a 300 page

455
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,519
handbook which is yeah more than fair

456
00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:38,560
enough

457
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:40,320
sure

458
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,800
and yeah and i mean that feeds into this

459
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,639
eternal discussion that we role players

460
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,040
love to have about crunch and whether

461
00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:48,240
crunch is good or bad and the

462
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,160
merits of

463
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,480
um you know more

464
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,120
so-called realistic kind of games that

465
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,120
go for very similitude like i don't know

466
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,839
pathfinder or something there's tons of

467
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:02,079
tables and tons of rules and then the

468
00:15:59,839 --> 00:16:05,040
the newer kind of breed of

469
00:16:02,079 --> 00:16:07,199
storytelling games with very very little

470
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,880
rules and i personally i like somewhere

471
00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:10,880
in the middle yeah but that's you know

472
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,199
but i appreciate that's completely

473
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:16,800
personal taste and there's both sides

474
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:17,680
aren't there yeah for sure for sure um

475
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,639
so

476
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,959
around

477
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:23,040
so what it's 2017 you said you started

478
00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:25,600
the paladin role playing

479
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,440
do you have any i guess lessons lessons

480
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,959
learned from that experience i

481
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,079
would assume the answer is yes of course

482
00:16:28,959 --> 00:16:32,720
because it's

483
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:35,920
quite a risky risky you know potentially

484
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:38,000
stressful endeavor so uh

485
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,480
what did you what did you learn from

486
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,279
from that experience uh any

487
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,040
pitfalls you you didn't see like wow

488
00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:47,680
making dice was way harder than i

489
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,680
anticipated

490
00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:51,040
um

491
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,920
well i i mean i'm pleased to say i don't

492
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,199
think

493
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,279
i made any

494
00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:57,440
dramatic

495
00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:59,199
errors of course i made lots and lots of

496
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,079
kind of small errors there's you know

497
00:16:59,199 --> 00:17:04,880
there's the whole thing about

498
00:17:02,079 --> 00:17:06,319
starting your own business which is

499
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,640
nothing to do with

500
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:11,199
what the business does but just you know

501
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,520
there's all kinds of stuff is you know

502
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:16,640
either you have to know about or find

503
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,559
out about or pay someone to know about

504
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,480
accountancy and market marketing and

505
00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:22,079
bookkeeping and taxes and all that very

506
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,720
dull stuff

507
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:26,480
which is you know it was just a big

508
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,200
very steep learning curve for me because

509
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,559
i didn't know about most of those things

510
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,799
i'm still

511
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:35,039
having a massive headache with taxes

512
00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:37,200
particularly international taxes and and

513
00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:40,960
shipping especially since brexit

514
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:42,960
yeah it's a enormous nightmare

515
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,440
but you know it's

516
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,039
i kind of see that as like the

517
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,360
sort of the cost of entry in a way you

518
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:51,600
know that's just stuff i've got to do

519
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:53,440
because otherwise i can't do the

520
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,320
the good stuff which is getting dice

521
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:58,160
into people's tables

522
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,840
so so there there's all that kind of

523
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:05,120
stuff um i think for me

524
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:09,039
this might sound odd but i think

525
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:12,000
when i started i i almost sort of

526
00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:14,000
tried to be too professional

527
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,480
okay it makes any sense at all and what

528
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,240
i mean is what i discovered is that it's

529
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,280
actually much better

530
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,600
for me just to be myself and so i'm very

531
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,799
much at the face of paladin role-playing

532
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,120
and

533
00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:29,520
that's kind of deliberate because

534
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:30,880
i want paladin to be a company that

535
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,840
people know

536
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,919
has

537
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,000
real people behind it

538
00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:38,080
and that means that they know they can

539
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,520
come and talk to us and and they do and

540
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,559
that's great so

541
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,440
whether that's

542
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:45,280
good or bad you know people

543
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,960
write to me and and say how much they're

544
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,200
enjoying using their new dice or

545
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,480
whatever and then we maybe get chatting

546
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,559
about what game they play and stuff like

547
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,480
that and that's a really nice fun kind

548
00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:56,640
of enjoyable interaction that

549
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,799
makes my day a bit nicer and then

550
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,559
equally and just probably more important

551
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:02,880
in a way is if people aren't happy for

552
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:04,080
any reason they also feel like they can

553
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,840
get in touch

554
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,640
and talk to a real person because they

555
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,919
can

556
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,400
and then

557
00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:12,160
i do whatever i can to sort out the

558
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,080
problem and

559
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,320
i think that's much better and and so to

560
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,160
start with i almost like felt like well

561
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,000
i'm i'm just i'm just me i'm just some

562
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,080
bloke and you know i should have this

563
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,760
very professional almost i suppose

564
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,039
talking about not wanting things to get

565
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,039
corporate i was almost thinking like

566
00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:28,400
what's the company like and it's all

567
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,000
about the logo and do you know what i

568
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,760
mean yeah and i thought that's what i

569
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,600
need to do that's the professional yeah

570
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:36,240
i need i need like a customer service

571
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:39,120
department who you know a staff 24 7 and

572
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,320
yeah yeah all of that exactly and

573
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,000
and actually

574
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,679
i don't you know i think people

575
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,320
appreciate the fact that we're a small

576
00:19:43,679 --> 00:19:49,360
family-run company and

577
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,280
yeah they they can talk to us and and so

578
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:54,000
that's not really less professional

579
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,679
professionals wrong word to use but it's

580
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,080
i think i've learned that i don't need

581
00:19:55,679 --> 00:20:00,080
to project this sort of

582
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,000
more corporate kind of image

583
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,760
and it's much nicer not to actually as

584
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,440
well

585
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,280
i mean hey that's that's how we ended up

586
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,640
talking today because i i well it's

587
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,080
certainly working whatever it is you're

588
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,919
doing it's certainly working because i

589
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,520
took i took the i rolled the dice if

590
00:20:11,919 --> 00:20:14,960
you're pardon the phrase and uh yeah

591
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,280
dropped you an email and look okay look

592
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,799
at where we are today so i'm uh

593
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:22,320
it's certainly working something you're

594
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:23,919
doing something right good thank you

595
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,559
it may be only that

596
00:20:23,919 --> 00:20:26,559
but it's something

597
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,880
okay awesome cool um

598
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,440
yeah it's it's have i ever thought about

599
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,559
i'm trying to wrap my head um

600
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,559
a couple of my close friends and i

601
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:40,320
always used to joke like the four of us

602
00:20:38,559 --> 00:20:41,760
should when we've all been like unhappy

603
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,960
with our jobs at certain parts in our

604
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,799
life we've always been like right you

605
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,120
can be the face of the company you can

606
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,720
do the maths the account in there yeah

607
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:50,720
you could do the marketing but it's not

608
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,600
it's never really you know we don't have

609
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:56,320
a product so uh

610
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:58,880
which is usually 101 yeah yeah yeah it

611
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,200
kind of helps yeah

612
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,400
so in terms of the the stuff then

613
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,799
that you

614
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,320
do on paladin and this is like just for

615
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:07,440
the the listeners benefit this isn't

616
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,120
like

617
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,360
a paid thing or whatever i'm just

618
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:13,360
generally i have the products i'm

619
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,440
interested in i'm generally interested

620
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,559
in business and running a business and

621
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,520
as you said

622
00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:21,760
running a business in in a a hobby that

623
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,720
you know you love or i love is super

624
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,799
interesting so i'm genuinely curious in

625
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,080
terms of like the design of a couple of

626
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:29,039
products and maybe the dice and stuff is

627
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,919
that all in-house as well as that

628
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:32,960
yourself was that friends or family

629
00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:35,520
so

630
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,559
in terms of design

631
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,320
that's

632
00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:40,480
all totally in-house

633
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,640
um and mainly me

634
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,200
but with lots of input from

635
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,480
friends family other you know people in

636
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,120
the industry and whatever and whoever's

637
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,679
brain i can pick basically um but yeah

638
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,120
design is is all entirely in-house we

639
00:21:51,679 --> 00:21:54,640
come up with everything

640
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,159
ourselves

641
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,280
and

642
00:21:56,159 --> 00:22:00,080
i do

643
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,919
have uh probably at this point

644
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,200
two or three

645
00:22:01,919 --> 00:22:05,039
really good

646
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,799
uh graphic designers

647
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:08,960
that i've used you know who are just

648
00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:10,240
kind of freelance but who i kind of go

649
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,440
back to

650
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:16,720
whenever we need graphics or

651
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:20,320
mock-ups or you know whatever arty stuff

652
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,039
so because i'm not arty in that sense

653
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,400
but

654
00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:24,000
i've got

655
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,039
and again this just kind of comes back

656
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,919
to knowing the market because i am in

657
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:31,760
you know i am the target market myself

658
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:34,640
so the i kind of just like to make

659
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,039
things that i really like which are cool

660
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,280
and so or which i can't get hold of you

661
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,440
know if i'm like oh i really like uh

662
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,360
some dice of this particular kind of

663
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,400
design that for a character i'm playing

664
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,240
let's say

665
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,120
and then i look around and i can't find

666
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,640
any

667
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:51,039
then for me straight away that's a

668
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,039
signal ah okay this is interesting

669
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:55,200
nobody seems to be doing this

670
00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:57,600
why don't why don't i do that yeah

671
00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,000
actually some of our best

672
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,240
or most popular things have come and

673
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,520
this again is part of of

674
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,280
people feeling that they can come and

675
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,640
talk to us have actually been customer

676
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,720
requests

677
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,720
so you know people sometimes email and

678
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,159
say i'd love it if you did

679
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,280
whatever let me see if i can think of an

680
00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:18,400
example also there so we do a pack of 10

681
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,559
red d4s for as for healing potions

682
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,760
health potion ones yeah yeah

683
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,760
and

684
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,600
that was not my idea that was one of our

685
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,039
customers who said i'd love to and

686
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,039
actually now they're very common when we

687
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:31,360
first came out with them they weren't so

688
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:33,520
kind of easy to get i'm not saying that

689
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,640
people are copying us by any means no no

690
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,480
of course not

691
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,480
in any case that's the way it works out

692
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,600
yeah um

693
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,080
so

694
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,400
yeah and as soon as i got that message i

695
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,080
thought well of course that's obviously

696
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,120
a great idea

697
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,799
so we started doing that and then

698
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:51,200
they've been really popular so

699
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,720
i can't claim credit actually for for

700
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,159
everything this is this is where your

701
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,679
house of cards comes falling down it's

702
00:23:54,159 --> 00:23:57,200
like oh actually this set of dice and

703
00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:58,240
this bag and this thing is all actually

704
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,200
other people

705
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,640
yeah

706
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,760
it's the pyramid scheme neil you've made

707
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,000
it yeah

708
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,960
yeah that's right exactly damn this is

709
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,960
actually an expose

710
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,080
one parallel actually i wanted to say

711
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:14,240
between

712
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,799
obviously paladin and think critically

713
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,240
is that i get asked to similar

714
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:19,919
well i get asked the question from a

715
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,440
couple of guests that come on

716
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:22,640
and they say you know they wanted to do

717
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,559
their homework then and do some

718
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,600
preparation they say what's your who are

719
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:27,760
the kind of people that listen to your

720
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,200
show and maybe that's because they want

721
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,640
to make sure they're talking about the

722
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,840
right thing maybe they want to know you

723
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,880
know just who they're who they're

724
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,279
talking to

725
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,880
and now you've mentioned it

726
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:38,320
it's i just need to say like people like

727
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,919
me because

728
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,360
because for the exact same reason that's

729
00:24:39,919 --> 00:24:42,559
why i did the show because i was like i

730
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,919
don't know if there's anything like this

731
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:45,200
and i think it'll be a good idea and i'd

732
00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:46,799
listen to it

733
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,600
and so yeah that's quite a nice little

734
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:52,960
parallel there between the two uh of

735
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,760
like it's people like me

736
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,760
yeah

737
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,159
and i and i've always thought that's the

738
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,159
best thing to do

739
00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:01,360
in business you know if if there's

740
00:25:00,159 --> 00:25:03,120
something you're passionate about and

741
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,200
that

742
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,360
you you know make things for people like

743
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,679
you and if because then you you've got

744
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,480
an inbuilt quality control if you love

745
00:25:09,679 --> 00:25:13,200
it

746
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:16,000
then other people like you will love it

747
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:18,880
and that's a lot easier than

748
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,679
making things for people who aren't like

749
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,520
you

750
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:24,000
and then you don't

751
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,520
have then this kind of instinctive

752
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,440
feeling for whether it's a great product

753
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,840
a good product or a mediocre product or

754
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,279
even a terrible product because you you

755
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,279
would never be

756
00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:35,440
the market for it anyway so i think to

757
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:37,200
me that's kind of a no-brainer in a way

758
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,039
yeah and also to

759
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,880
definitely bring us back to ctrpg's

760
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:42,400
another common thread that we've heard

761
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,919
in the in the show is

762
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,720
you know when you're running a game run

763
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:48,799
the game that you would want to play

764
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,720
set the game you want a set you would

765
00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:51,840
want to play in and it's a similar theme

766
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,679
of like

767
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,200
if you you know obviously make sure

768
00:25:53,679 --> 00:25:56,960
everyone's having fun and whatnot but

769
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,720
those standards you know there's

770
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,880
something to strive for and it's

771
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,760
it it will work

772
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,520
yeah

773
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,559
yeah i agree completely and if you're

774
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,159
trying to cater to other people and to

775
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:10,320
the extent you're

776
00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:11,360
not doing what you want to do apart from

777
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,799
anything else you're just not going to

778
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,159
enjoy it and

779
00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:16,799
you know i always like to kind of

780
00:26:14,159 --> 00:26:18,640
emphasize that the the g in rpg is the

781
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:20,240
most important bit it's it's a game and

782
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,600
we're supposed to be having fun when we

783
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,799
play so

784
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:27,360
if we're not something's wrong there

785
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:30,320
yeah absolutely

786
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:31,919
we mentioned it earlier on around uh

787
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,080
kickstarter

788
00:26:31,919 --> 00:26:35,360
now this is what do i

789
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,200
this might be a surprise to some people

790
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,720
but i'm not i'd

791
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,840
i could count on one hand the number of

792
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,559
kickstarters i've i've backed okay one

793
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,000
of which is yours um thank you

794
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:48,240
gloomhaven and frosthaven on my other

795
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,080
two uh

796
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,400
the ball games uh and then i think there

797
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,799
are a couple of others so i'm not what

798
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,799
i'm getting at is i'm not

799
00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:58,080
it's oh god i'm gonna sound super old

800
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,159
now but

801
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,320
it's still a bit of a like a black box

802
00:27:00,159 --> 00:27:05,600
to me in terms of like

803
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,360
how really it works and like obviously i

804
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,880
get the idea you're funding something

805
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:10,880
that may or may not happen and blah blah

806
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,360
but in terms of like

807
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,799
i again i just sound like a super boomer

808
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:16,400
but you know it's still not quite the

809
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:17,440
same it's just you know buying a product

810
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,120
so

811
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,520
yeah how has your experience of

812
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:22,880
kickstarter being from the other side of

813
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,960
that coin you know from the other side

814
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,559
of the screen

815
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,520
pardon the metaphor there

816
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,120
yeah

817
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,810
it's

818
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:32,960
kickstarter is a it's a thing um

819
00:27:31,810 --> 00:27:35,520
[Music]

820
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,799
so our first kickstarter failed actually

821
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,799
oh and learned a massive amount from

822
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:42,000
that well in fact technically it didn't

823
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:44,080
fail uh

824
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,000
because we cancelled it

825
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,360
before it had a chance to but it was

826
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,360
okay it was clear that it was never

827
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,720
going to reach its funding goal

828
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,520
and

829
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,480
that

830
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:56,799
that was because of the basically of the

831
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,000
we just got the numbers wrong

832
00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:59,760
so

833
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,200
i think i can't it's a while ago now so

834
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,679
i can't remember the exact details but i

835
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,520
think the idea was to have

836
00:28:03,679 --> 00:28:07,840
a whole new range of dice in lots of

837
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,120
different colors and

838
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,960
because it was lots of different colors

839
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,640
then that meant the stretch goal had to

840
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,760
be quite high so that we could make all

841
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,600
of them

842
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,840
and what i never did which is actually

843
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,720
such a stupid thing with hindsight is i

844
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,080
never sat down and said right if the

845
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,240
cost

846
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,080
of a set of dice is x

847
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,279
and the target

848
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:32,240
to be funded is why how many sets of

849
00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:33,679
dice or how many backers do we need to

850
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,880
hit the target

851
00:28:33,679 --> 00:28:37,120
which you'd have thought would be a

852
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,600
pretty basic thing to do but for some

853
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:42,000
reason it never occurred to me

854
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,000
and it was just way too many it was just

855
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,440
far far too many because we'd set the

856
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,159
target just

857
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,200
just too high yeah and particularly as a

858
00:28:48,159 --> 00:28:52,720
first time creator on kickstarter this

859
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,799
is something that

860
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,559
that people really look for

861
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:58,000
if you're

862
00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:00,320
on a you know on your second third

863
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,480
fourth tenth whatever if you've had

864
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,799
multiple successful kickstarters before

865
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,000
people are much more likely to back your

866
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:08,960
project

867
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,480
because you've got a proven history of

868
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,360
delivery

869
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,520
and

870
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,200
the sad thing is there are

871
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,919
i don't think there's many but there are

872
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,799
kickstarters that never deliver

873
00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:21,039
yeah

874
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:22,640
and that's partly some of those and i'd

875
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:24,960
like to think most of the those that

876
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,720
don't deliver is just because something

877
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,039
goes drastically wrong yeah it's a

878
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,279
genuine reason yeah it's actually never

879
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:33,279
any ill intention there are very very

880
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:35,360
small percentage and i think it's tiny

881
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:38,640
actually but it does happen of people

882
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,000
who are just doing it as a scam just

883
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,919
they have no intention of ever making

884
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,000
anything just take the money and run

885
00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:46,240
um but kickstarter obviously are pretty

886
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,760
good at detecting that and trying to

887
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,080
stop it and i don't think it happens

888
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,039
much yeah but but in any case people are

889
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,760
nervous of first-time creators yes

890
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:55,600
so

891
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,600
it's much easier now in our in our last

892
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,000
one that only just finished uh a couple

893
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,399
of months ago that was our well our

894
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,559
fourth in total third successful one we

895
00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:05,919
had a huge advantage because not only

896
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:07,760
are there all our

897
00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:08,640
previous customers who've found our

898
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,720
stuff

899
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,880
elsewhere there's also all the previous

900
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,320
people who backed the kickstarter number

901
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,919
one or number two

902
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,760
so then straight away when you launch

903
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:20,080
you've got this sort of ready-made group

904
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,080
of people who already know what you do

905
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,360
and like it and just jump on board and

906
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,120
so you get this boost right at the

907
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,039
beginning and then that looks really

908
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,240
good then to anyone else because anyone

909
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:30,080
else looks at it and goes oh look

910
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,000
they've only been this is only started

911
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,600
two days ago and they've already got x

912
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,279
amount yeah and then you get the

913
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,799
snowball effect

914
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:39,120
and that's really important for that's

915
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:40,960
super important for kickstarter

916
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,799
if other people are backing it

917
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,640
then it looks

918
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:46,880
it looks good and and then other people

919
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,960
think oh this is popular uh maybe i

920
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,919
should get on board there's all these

921
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,760
kind of things to think about it's it's

922
00:30:51,919 --> 00:30:55,760
yeah it's a bit of a headache it's i

923
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:59,440
mean it's a lot of fun i absolutely love

924
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,880
doing kickstarters but it is so intense

925
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,279
because you've got to be super involved

926
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,840
as well so i i reply to every single

927
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:07,039
comment and we get you know when a

928
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,640
kickstarter's running normally get a lot

929
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:09,679
of emails as well

930
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,240
and

931
00:31:09,679 --> 00:31:13,440
you're constantly well hopefully hitting

932
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,600
stretch goals then you have to update

933
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,600
the project page every time to kind of

934
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,240
reflect the new stretch goals and

935
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,159
sending out updates to people and it's

936
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,600
it's a lot of work

937
00:31:22,159 --> 00:31:24,799
and you're trying to because things are

938
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,880
coming in all the time because of

939
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:28,399
different time zones around the world

940
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,640
you find yourself kind of staying up

941
00:31:28,399 --> 00:31:33,200
really late and kind of hitting refresh

942
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,559
just like hitting f5

943
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,919
yeah because you're almost a stretch

944
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:37,600
goal and you think i want to go to bed

945
00:31:35,919 --> 00:31:40,159
but i need to if i hit this stretch go i

946
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,399
need to update the page so a better way

947
00:31:40,159 --> 00:31:44,320
it's that kind of thing i yeah i have i

948
00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:46,480
have heard and seen you know you know

949
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,080
people waiting and just hitting that f5

950
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,080
just to see if they hit the goal and

951
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,480
then the you know the uh the party

952
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,519
poppers come out and uh yeah exactly

953
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,120
yeah

954
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,880
it must be quite

955
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,559
an exhausting but exhilarating

956
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,640
experience i have to say because i'm

957
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:02,880
quite unique about that like just

958
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,840
watching the numbers come in wow

959
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,120
couldn't have made i could have made it

960
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,799
sound more dull when in fact it's

961
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,399
probably super

962
00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:10,559
no

963
00:32:08,399 --> 00:32:13,440
it's super exciting and

964
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:14,880
the engagement is is great i love just

965
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,080
chatting with people and you know people

966
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,919
get excited about the project and

967
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,919
and you know share it and that's that's

968
00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:23,519
just really exciting and and quite sort

969
00:32:21,919 --> 00:32:25,519
of humbling in a way you know if you get

970
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:27,120
a lot of people just really digging what

971
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:28,960
you're doing it's it's really you know

972
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,279
just makes you think oh cool that's you

973
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,519
know this was the right thing to do and

974
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:35,200
that's that's super nice i love that

975
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:37,840
oh amazing that's

976
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,840
that's that's not lovely to hear as well

977
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,399
you i i will say though

978
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,919
if you can my advice is as a

979
00:32:42,399 --> 00:32:45,760
this is a bit

980
00:32:43,919 --> 00:32:48,559
against it's whatever the opposite of

981
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,880
self-serving is of it but um as someone

982
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:53,519
who's not massively into kickstarter you

983
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:57,760
will save yourself a lot of money if you

984
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:59,360
don't ever become into kickstarter

985
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,919
because i've got the habit of checking

986
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,080
kickstarter pretty regularly once a week

987
00:33:01,919 --> 00:33:05,600
at least normally multiple times a week

988
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,919
just to see what everyone else is doing

989
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,200
so i kind of keep my eye on the ball for

990
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:11,120
my own stuff

991
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,679
but then the problem is you keep seeing

992
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,519
all this cool stuff and so i have

993
00:33:13,679 --> 00:33:16,960
recently backed quite a lot of

994
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:18,880
kickstarters

995
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,440
which is great because it means i get

996
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,360
lots of cool stuff through the post but

997
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:26,320
yeah it doesn't do my bank balance money

998
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,559
so i think if my my advice is

999
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,640
stay off it while you can

1000
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,000
don't get hooked

1001
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,679
that that should be the quote on your

1002
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,159
next kickstarter

1003
00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:37,159
yeah for tagline

1004
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,960
it's a sentiment that i've heard you

1005
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:42,159
know on twitter and there are people

1006
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,840
being like

1007
00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:45,840
i'm like i'm backing so many

1008
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,519
kickstarters right now i've lost count

1009
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,279
and i think i'm

1010
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:50,159
inadvertently quite lucky in that i

1011
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:52,399
haven't

1012
00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:54,640
fallen down that trap i've just done a

1013
00:33:52,399 --> 00:33:56,159
couple of handful here and there and

1014
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,519
have just kind of somehow it's it's

1015
00:33:56,159 --> 00:34:00,880
slipped my

1016
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:03,519
millennial internet searching web of

1017
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,600
things i do on the daily so no i'm quite

1018
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:07,900
i guess lucky

1019
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:11,209
give man

1020
00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:11,209
[Music]

1021
00:34:13,770 --> 00:34:19,599
[Music]

1022
00:34:17,839 --> 00:34:21,200
i the one thing i will mention is is in

1023
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:23,919
terms of

1024
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,800
production so again my

1025
00:34:23,919 --> 00:34:26,960
you know

1026
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,599
evidence is quite limited and anecdotal

1027
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,119
um but i know with both the as i said

1028
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:32,800
gleam here and frosthaven which are

1029
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:35,520
again very

1030
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,200
heavyweight board games yeah sure sure

1031
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,440
there's a lot it's like hundreds and

1032
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,320
hundreds of pieces and you know printing

1033
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,720
and

1034
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,240
so they're a big heavyweight i get it

1035
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:46,879
but in both of them

1036
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:48,639
the production schedule is slipped which

1037
00:34:46,879 --> 00:34:50,240
i don't really i don't i don't care

1038
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:52,000
about because i know the lead time is

1039
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:53,440
like a year anyway so i don't you know

1040
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,639
what's another six months on a year yeah

1041
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,679
that's right sure

1042
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:57,280
you know you'll get it eventually

1043
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:58,400
exactly it doesn't really mean anything

1044
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,520
to me

1045
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,960
but i don't know if you've had any

1046
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:06,079
experience with that kind of schedule

1047
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:07,680
slippage at all or so far so good okay

1048
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:10,160
i think

1049
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,520
what so particularly for kickstarters

1050
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,760
the way

1051
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,560
that we've done kickstarters is a very

1052
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,000
specific so it's just for instance it's

1053
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,400
just dice

1054
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,880
the last one was a new range of sci-fi

1055
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,920
themed dice and it was just that range

1056
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,760
of dice

1057
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,480
and there were a couple of things like

1058
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,160
there was a coin and some poker chips

1059
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,920
and add-ons i think i have the coin

1060
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,680
actually i've got a coin somewhere yeah

1061
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,599
yeah sorry to interrupt i just i do like

1062
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,560
another coins

1063
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:39,920
they're pretty nice if i say so myself

1064
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,200
um

1065
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,560
and so

1066
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,119
in a way it's the opposite of your

1067
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,480
gloomhaven it's it's not thousands of

1068
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:48,560
different pieces

1069
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,560
um of different kinds you know you don't

1070
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,040
need some minis and a rulebook and a

1071
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,720
board and some cards and some

1072
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,599
you know etc etc

1073
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:58,240
so

1074
00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:59,920
that makes it way way easier because

1075
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,160
then i know we've just got to produce

1076
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,960
dice that's all and of course sometimes

1077
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,160
things go wrong or yeah there's a hold

1078
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,760
up or a

1079
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,480
fire or flood or yeah it could be

1080
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,400
anything yeah but but rarely and now i'm

1081
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,079
pleased to say and i hope this trend

1082
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,839
continues

1083
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:18,320
our kickstarters so far have all been

1084
00:36:15,839 --> 00:36:20,320
delivered on time amazing one of them

1085
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,320
only just but we did get the last

1086
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,000
package out when you know before the

1087
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,440
date that we said so

1088
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,920
um

1089
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,079
so far so good although the next one

1090
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,720
nobody knows about this yet oh but the

1091
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:35,119
next one is going to be early next year

1092
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:37,040
okay and it's not dice

1093
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:38,800
it's going to be for

1094
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,400
some i'm just i don't want to give it

1095
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,440
away too much but it's going to be card

1096
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,200
based it's going to be something to do

1097
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:47,200
with cards oh uh i'm i'm i'm honored and

1098
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:50,240
this is well exciting

1099
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:53,040
this is the world first

1100
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:55,119
no but nobody knows this yet um and it's

1101
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,520
also it's going to be a d

1102
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:59,920
product or a 5e product i should say

1103
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,440
because i'm not supposed to say dnd ah

1104
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:04,079
yeah very cool

1105
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,760
well i'm really excited with it i i've

1106
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:07,680
been working on it for

1107
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,000
quite quite a while so probably most of

1108
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,200
this year to be honest amazing and it's

1109
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,359
yeah it's going to be ready basically as

1110
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,280
soon as we've fulfilled the dice from

1111
00:37:13,359 --> 00:37:17,119
the kickstarter they're just finished

1112
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,680
because uh kickstarter allows you to

1113
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:21,359
have i think up to three on the go but i

1114
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,200
don't like that i want to get one done i

1115
00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:24,800
want to completely fulfill it make sure

1116
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,400
everyone's got their stuff

1117
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,240
and then start the next one i think i

1118
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,599
think that's kind of fairer in a way i

1119
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,599
don't think it's fair to ask someone for

1120
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:33,040
money for something new when they've

1121
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:35,680
given you money for something else and

1122
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,880
you haven't given them yeah

1123
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,599
yeah

1124
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,119
yeah so yeah so early next year watch

1125
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:43,520
this space oh

1126
00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:44,800
absolutely yeah that sounds awesome okay

1127
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,040
very cool

1128
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,079
ah i'm a bit rocked by that now this is

1129
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,920
this is

1130
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:51,680
this is a thinking critically exclusive

1131
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,599
so um it is it's caught me off guard

1132
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,520
here usually i'm usually i'm getting the

1133
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:56,800
guests off guard with any questions so

1134
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,160
now i'm like

1135
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,190
it's not fair this isn't this isn't now

1136
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,160
this is supposed to happen

1137
00:37:59,190 --> 00:38:04,560
[Laughter]

1138
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,880
okay cool so

1139
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,240
let's change gears a little bit then so

1140
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,560
obviously we've talked a lot about kind

1141
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:11,920
of real world business

1142
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,359
obviously pad and role playing and then

1143
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,480
kickstart kickstarter and all that kind

1144
00:38:13,359 --> 00:38:18,480
of stuff

1145
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:21,440
in terms of businesses in game then so

1146
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,560
uh we'll keep it kind of system agnostic

1147
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,520
at the moment

1148
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,839
i don't know if you've got any

1149
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,359
experience with that you know in any

1150
00:38:25,839 --> 00:38:29,359
versions or systems or editions that

1151
00:38:27,359 --> 00:38:33,280
you've played any

1152
00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:34,960
have involved that that element of role

1153
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,079
playing like you know the player

1154
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,760
characters running a shop or you know

1155
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:41,280
downtime activities or any of that kind

1156
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,440
of stuff i don't know if you've had any

1157
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,520
of that experience and if so

1158
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,040
how how did you find it

1159
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,720
yeah so i

1160
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,800
obviously knowing that we were speaking

1161
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:52,720
this evening i was thinking about this

1162
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,079
today particularly

1163
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,440
and i was kind of trying to think and i

1164
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:56,560
wanted to ask you actually as well if

1165
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,079
you know of any but i was trying to

1166
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,040
think first of all are there any

1167
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:04,320
role-playing games that where that's the

1168
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:06,800
focus actually so rather than going into

1169
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,440
dungeons or whatever it is for for that

1170
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,599
game are there any games where

1171
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,359
the whole focus is on business or trade

1172
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:14,960
and i couldn't come up with any i don't

1173
00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:18,480
know do you know of any not off the top

1174
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:20,000
of my head no i know that there in in

1175
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,119
fifth edition there are some you know

1176
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,440
guidelines and rules that have been

1177
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:25,200
expanded upon the later books around as

1178
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,200
i said downtime activities and with some

1179
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,760
broad guidance on like

1180
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,760
if the pcs do x for y number of days

1181
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,160
they'll earn zed gold yeah and that's

1182
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,000
that's pretty much as deep as it gets

1183
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,520
yeah i'm the same um

1184
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:42,079
so as you say that you know there's some

1185
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:44,320
stuff in m5e uh my main game is simbroom

1186
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,520
by free league the swedish company who

1187
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,359
are taking the world by storm at the

1188
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,040
moment and rightly so because they're

1189
00:39:47,359 --> 00:39:51,119
great um

1190
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,960
so i run simbroom and there's a there's

1191
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:54,160
a little bit in there

1192
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,920
about

1193
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,079
it's not really it's kind of related

1194
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:01,280
it's about sort of in the uh games game

1195
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:04,240
masters guide is a bit about

1196
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,599
running a a domain and a domain could be

1197
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:08,640
anything from a

1198
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:09,440
a small farm to a town so if you happen

1199
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,880
to

1200
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,720
own one or

1201
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,960
take one over or whatever

1202
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,880
but that's you know that's very it's

1203
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,960
like three or four pages and it's not

1204
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,480
really given that much detail

1205
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,240
and then there's i think there's some

1206
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,359
games where

1207
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:26,800
you're a trader so like traveler for

1208
00:40:25,359 --> 00:40:28,720
instance the idea is you're a trader

1209
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,000
kind of buying and selling stuff across

1210
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:32,079
the galaxy

1211
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,680
and the other one i could think of was

1212
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:36,079
was what i'm a fancy role playing with

1213
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,520
rip okay but

1214
00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:39,040
in a

1215
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,160
in a way that's kind of implied in the

1216
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,560
books but i'm not sure anyone actually

1217
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,000
plays because in wifrip you

1218
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,079
you have a

1219
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,400
a career which is you know your your

1220
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:50,640
class uh but it is actually a career so

1221
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,800
the the famous one is rat catcher you

1222
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,760
can be a rat catcher or you could be a

1223
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:58,720
a pilot or a whatever there's absolutely

1224
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,720
loads of them and i think the

1225
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:03,359
the idea the sort of implication is that

1226
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:06,640
you're not really an adventurer

1227
00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:08,640
you are a normal person with a job and

1228
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,240
when you're not adventuring you go back

1229
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,640
to your job

1230
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:14,000
and that's mainly what you do and so all

1231
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,400
your advances

1232
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,079
are based on your career

1233
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,599
which is a cool idea and it's a lot of

1234
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:20,960
fun it works really well i think on the

1235
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:22,720
whole

1236
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,800
but they didn't really make anything of

1237
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:27,599
that and i think in the latest edition

1238
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,839
of uh warhammer's fourth edition uh

1239
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:31,599
which came out i think last year

1240
00:41:29,839 --> 00:41:32,800
maybe year before something like that

1241
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:35,280
and

1242
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,680
just like you said uh they they kind of

1243
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,760
have it as down time really it's just

1244
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,599
some stuff happens

1245
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,040
in between sessions yeah and maybe you

1246
00:41:41,599 --> 00:41:44,960
make some money

1247
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,040
or you can put your money in the bank

1248
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,119
to make sure it

1249
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,440
nothing happens to it it's just

1250
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:52,640
which is all right that's fine

1251
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,599
but

1252
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,839
it's not really making the most of it

1253
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,440
and i sort of wondered if

1254
00:41:57,839 --> 00:42:01,280
wouldn't it be quite good i think to

1255
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,280
have a game where

1256
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,319
actually that is what it was about and

1257
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,079
so you

1258
00:42:04,319 --> 00:42:06,960
i don't know what you do you running in

1259
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:08,960
or

1260
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,400
whatever you have some kind of

1261
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,640
enterprise

1262
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,800
and actually it's about

1263
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,920
managing all the trials and tribulations

1264
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,920
and you could have you know you could

1265
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,800
have random tables

1266
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,560
for

1267
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,160
what kind of people

1268
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,480
come in and maybe there's a recession or

1269
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:27,440
maybe there's a fire or maybe

1270
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,440
your stock goes mouldy or yeah rival

1271
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,920
rival shops opening

1272
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,520
yeah yeah maybe yeah you could uh maybe

1273
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,119
send in you could do a bit of industrial

1274
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,040
espionage you could send someone in to

1275
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:40,400
spy on the competition it could be quite

1276
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,920
fun i think but so far as i know

1277
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,520
there's nothing like that i'm sure

1278
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,440
there's at least one person listening to

1279
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,680
this going yes there is yes there is yes

1280
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,200
yeah oh for sure

1281
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,800
well welcome to my life is people

1282
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,760
telling me

1283
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,760
knowing that i'm wrong

1284
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,839
no that actually does sound very you

1285
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:01,520
know you could it could easily sound

1286
00:42:59,839 --> 00:43:04,480
maybe dull like spreadsheets and stuff

1287
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:06,079
but i think it's very easily be super

1288
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,079
fun like if you keep it on that on that

1289
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:09,520
but like like for example a problem i

1290
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:10,800
thought of just then was like the where

1291
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,119
your warehouse where your stock is gets

1292
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,560
raided by like bandits or whatever and

1293
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:15,440
then you can easily tie that into like a

1294
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,480
more

1295
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,319
typical

1296
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,839
well go and investigate the the

1297
00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:20,880
warehouse to check out these people that

1298
00:43:19,839 --> 00:43:22,400
have stolen your goods and you could

1299
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,160
kind of swing that ends up with a big

1300
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,680
fight yeah yeah back into a more

1301
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,960
traditional sense if that's what people

1302
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,240
are after then you can go back and be

1303
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,079
like well now i've got my goods and i

1304
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:32,240
don't have to you know eat

1305
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:34,480
rice you know and bread for the next

1306
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:36,319
month because i got i got my goods off

1307
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,160
of those guys no for sure yeah i think

1308
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:39,760
it could be a lot of fun and i think but

1309
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,400
i know there's definitely games where

1310
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,920
you

1311
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,760
have a base

1312
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,280
and then

1313
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,560
you have to have enough money to run the

1314
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,160
base yeah

1315
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,040
guards and yeah all that and then you

1316
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,720
can expand your base with extra kind of

1317
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,480
modules and things and again some of the

1318
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:56,240
3d games do that quite well i know

1319
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,160
that's in forbidden lands for instance

1320
00:43:56,240 --> 00:44:00,000
there's a few games that do that and

1321
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,839
that that kind of touches on it i think

1322
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,400
that you've got to make the money

1323
00:44:01,839 --> 00:44:07,040
to spend to keep your base going

1324
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,960
and maybe you've got a cash generating

1325
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:12,160
something in your base

1326
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,200
potentially but it's always

1327
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,880
yeah i think it's always kind of

1328
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,040
relegated to

1329
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,040
so as you say downtime or just like a

1330
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,119
minor little bit of the game and then

1331
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,800
you go off and do your big quest and i

1332
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:24,880
think that's a kind of a shame in a way

1333
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,319
yeah for sure um and it's this this talk

1334
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,400
has reminded me of there's a there's a

1335
00:44:26,319 --> 00:44:30,160
video game it's like a jrpg

1336
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,200
uh quite old now at this point it's

1337
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,119
called

1338
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,560
is it russetti air it's got a

1339
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:36,880
interesting name and it's called a

1340
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:40,079
recitier an item shop's tail

1341
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:42,960
and it is it is very uh like anime very

1342
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:46,000
jrpg and the the protagonist who's like

1343
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,960
a teenage girl she inherits an item shop

1344
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,599
like

1345
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,760
explicitly for adventurers like other

1346
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:53,680
typical adventurers that come in

1347
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,680
and she inherits it from you know a late

1348
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,599
uncle or something like that and the

1349
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,520
whole premise of the game is she goes

1350
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:01,280
dungeon delving to get

1351
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,800
resources that other adventurers need

1352
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,480
and then you take it back to the shop

1353
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,119
and then you sell them so in the day

1354
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:09,280
it's like where do i put you know i put

1355
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:11,599
the really high value enticing goods in

1356
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,760
the window to bring adventures in and

1357
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:15,599
then on the shelves inside i put the

1358
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,359
other goods and then

1359
00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:19,119
every time someone comes in you get to

1360
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:20,720
barter with them and haggle the price of

1361
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:23,280
this healing potion

1362
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:24,480
you know 50 foot of hemp and rope or you

1363
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,240
know or you find a really great like

1364
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,560
magical sword slam that in the window

1365
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:30,800
for like a huge price tag just to entice

1366
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,720
the punters and then in the evening you

1367
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,200
go dungeon delvin again

1368
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:37,599
to you know restock the shelves and

1369
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,000
and so on and so on so that that is

1370
00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:41,760
begging to be made easily it could

1371
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,359
easily be a tabletop game couldn't it

1372
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,280
yeah yeah for sure exactly you can do

1373
00:45:43,359 --> 00:45:47,359
the exact same thing in fact i expect

1374
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,000
someone will at some point trademark

1375
00:45:47,359 --> 00:45:52,640
copyright yeah yeah yeah

1376
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,440
get it get it out there quick

1377
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,000
yeah

1378
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,630
this is a thinking critically paladin

1379
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,480
production

1380
00:45:56,630 --> 00:46:00,560
[Laughter]

1381
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,040
perfect you know like absolutely that

1382
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:05,440
could that just totally fits you

1383
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,200
again what we were just describing like

1384
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,640
and in the day you could have those

1385
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,160
disturbances and whatnot and you could

1386
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,520
easily spin all the classic tropes you

1387
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,040
know you could time backstories you

1388
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,240
could tie in you know everything you

1389
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,520
want dragons coming in you could do

1390
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:16,319
anything you wanted then it would still

1391
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,560
be

1392
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:19,760
weirdly grounded in a way which would

1393
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,200
make it

1394
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,040
potentially more

1395
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,280
engaging because it is grounded it is

1396
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,079
like i got i've got to feed i got to eat

1397
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,000
like

1398
00:46:26,079 --> 00:46:28,880
yeah and there's there's a very definite

1399
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,319
reason

1400
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,920
sometimes

1401
00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:32,880
i i don't have a problem with this but i

1402
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,640
think

1403
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,400
in in a lot of kind of traditional

1404
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,359
role-playing games you kind of go on the

1405
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,960
quest just because it's the quest

1406
00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:42,880
i'm gonna go and clear this dungeon out

1407
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,119
of monsters and take the loot don't

1408
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,800
really know why but it's fun so that's

1409
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:48,960
what i'm going to do but i quite like

1410
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,720
that idea of yeah there's a real

1411
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,720
definite reason

1412
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:53,520
behind it and having to fill up your

1413
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,680
shop

1414
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,040
yeah and i wanted to also say that there

1415
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,119
is something to be said about and in

1416
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,760
fact looking at my notes now about i've

1417
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:03,440
put here classes as professions and i

1418
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,760
think that's something that

1419
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,520
5e doesn't do

1420
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,960
i mean i guess you could tenuously link

1421
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,280
most of them to

1422
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,440
to a quote-unquote career or a

1423
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,960
profession but they are

1424
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,160
first and foremost which is from its

1425
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,240
roots

1426
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,200
what i would define as a class rather

1427
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:20,640
than a

1428
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,400
a profession like nobody grows up and

1429
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,680
says i want to be

1430
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,680
a fighter or like nobody

1431
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,440
is a child and says i want to be a rogue

1432
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,599
i want to be a criminal

1433
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,650
yeah yeah right yeah yeah

1434
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:35,839
i want to be somebody people can't trust

1435
00:47:33,650 --> 00:47:36,960
[Laughter]

1436
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:38,480
whereas as you said like with the

1437
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,960
warhammer that certainly sounds like the

1438
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,720
type even the name alone which speaks

1439
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,800
volumes um

1440
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:47,680
they are yeah professional i mean even

1441
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,960
fighter i mean fighters very loose terms

1442
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,119
why are you a fighter is it because

1443
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,960
you're a bodyguard or a professional

1444
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:54,880
boxer you know you could put that kind

1445
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,960
of thing around it i'm just picking up

1446
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,319
my copy of warhammer here which is right

1447
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,920
next to me here we go so we've got

1448
00:47:58,319 --> 00:48:02,880
soldier squire student smuggler servant

1449
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:07,359
seer

1450
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:10,720
uh ratcatcher road warden scribe

1451
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:12,079
pit fighter pilot physician student

1452
00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:13,280
there's loads of them

1453
00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:15,599
and some of them aren't actually

1454
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,599
professions there's noble oh okay not

1455
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:19,680
really a career this is just like a well

1456
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:21,200
a maine but if you've got a silver spoon

1457
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,520
then you don't need to work yeah i

1458
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,960
suppose that's it yeah exactly minstrel

1459
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:28,319
is there so i guess that's a bit like it

1460
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:31,280
obviously a bard yep herdsman

1461
00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:34,400
hypnotist even amazing

1462
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:36,480
um fisherman yeah just

1463
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,319
but i like that i like the idea well i'm

1464
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,960
just a fisherman yeah and i happen to

1465
00:48:38,319 --> 00:48:42,880
have got involved in some crazy stuff

1466
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,720
and now i'm going off on an adventure

1467
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,000
but i think that you know that

1468
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:48,559
says a lot about the difference between

1469
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:50,559
warhammer and dnd because

1470
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:52,960
warhammer is much

1471
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:54,800
you know artists is intended as a much

1472
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,079
sort of grittier

1473
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:59,520
i'm not going to say realistic but yeah

1474
00:48:56,079 --> 00:49:02,400
kind of a grittier more more grim dark

1475
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:04,640
kind of game and dnd is inherently a bit

1476
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:06,319
more kind of heroic yeah so it kind of

1477
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,720
fits for warhammer that you're just

1478
00:49:06,319 --> 00:49:09,599
average joe the fisherman

1479
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:10,960
who

1480
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:12,640
gets involved in something and you're

1481
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,920
not some mighty

1482
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,240
paladin or

1483
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,000
yeah personally i quite like that no no

1484
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:20,559
i like it too because i've i've

1485
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,640
struggled with that dissonance before

1486
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:24,240
in i i like to make grounded and

1487
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,280
realistic characters and i've struggled

1488
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:27,040
with

1489
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,680
i am just a dude

1490
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,680
but you you can never be just just

1491
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,839
somebody in in

1492
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:36,240
you you know even at level one you have

1493
00:49:33,839 --> 00:49:37,920
fantastical abilities that set you apart

1494
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,520
so it makes it very hard there is a

1495
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:42,800
dissonance there to be like i i want to

1496
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:44,640
be a guy but i can't just be regular joe

1497
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:49,359
because i can

1498
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:50,960
get hit loads or summon fire or and yeah

1499
00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:52,400
i can't just be a fisherman because that

1500
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,440
doesn't really make sense when i whip

1501
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,520
out a

1502
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,119
huge great sword that can decapitate

1503
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,040
people like where have i picked that up

1504
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:01,760
when i've been sitting for seven hours

1505
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,839
next to a lake like

1506
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,280
yeah it's like where did you manage to

1507
00:50:03,839 --> 00:50:07,599
squeeze that in next time one of the

1508
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,920
most mundane like not to insult

1509
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:10,640
fishermen at all but like

1510
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,440
yeah

1511
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,280
it can be quite sedentary yeah

1512
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,520
yeah yeah absolutely yeah

1513
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,640
how can i fit in these fantastical feats

1514
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,480
of

1515
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,760
i mean i mean you could be and now i'm

1516
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,800
thinking about it a fisherman wizard

1517
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,960
would make sense because you've got an

1518
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,400
awful lot of time reading you could

1519
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:30,400
would work that would read yeah

1520
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,800
yeah got a lot of patience

1521
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,960
so no i i agree i do i do like that

1522
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,400
marriage a little bit more between

1523
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,319
classes and professions because it just

1524
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,319
makes that stepping stone for me a

1525
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:42,720
little bit easier from certainly the

1526
00:50:40,319 --> 00:50:45,200
lower levels to be like i was a random

1527
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:48,079
person but now because of the adventures

1528
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:50,400
i've been on i'm a fisherman plus

1529
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:53,920
savior of the universe

1530
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:56,720
yeah and i think um it also helps it

1531
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,839
gives you an instant in in terms of

1532
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:59,760
role-playing

1533
00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:02,079
because if you're

1534
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,480
so i've actually played a one-shot of

1535
00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:06,800
first edition warhammer a few months

1536
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,440
back and i chose to play the rat catcher

1537
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,720
because rat catchers are iconic in the

1538
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,000
warhammer world

1539
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:13,680
and

1540
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,200
so straight away i feel like well i kind

1541
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,800
of know something about my character

1542
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,640
from a role-playing perspective because

1543
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,720
i'm a rat catcher and so you can

1544
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:23,119
instantly imagine i'm probably pretty

1545
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:26,079
poor and i'm used to going down sewers

1546
00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:28,160
and nasty places looking for rats and

1547
00:51:26,079 --> 00:51:29,839
the fact that the rat catcher comes with

1548
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,640
what's described as a small but vicious

1549
00:51:29,839 --> 00:51:32,480
dog

1550
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,839
so awesome so i've also got dog i'm

1551
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,280
going to give him a name and that's

1552
00:51:33,839 --> 00:51:36,480
going to be fun for role playing as well

1553
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,839
i'm going to have him running off

1554
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,960
barking at things when we're trying to

1555
00:51:37,839 --> 00:51:41,920
hide

1556
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:43,359
whatever that'll be fun yeah

1557
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,800
and so that's really nice as well i

1558
00:51:43,359 --> 00:51:46,720
think that straight away you go okay

1559
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,559
cool i've got an idea

1560
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,839
at least a springboard for what my

1561
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:52,079
character is going to be like because

1562
00:51:49,839 --> 00:51:54,160
he's he's got this profession he's got

1563
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:55,520
this career yeah and that's that tells

1564
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,240
you something straight away and i like

1565
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,000
that

1566
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:59,920
i think most of those you you rattled

1567
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,319
off there have

1568
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:03,760
some bearing in

1569
00:52:02,319 --> 00:52:04,960
you know there's an

1570
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,720
analogous

1571
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,720
career or profession in the real world

1572
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:10,640
that people can hook on to whereas

1573
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:12,400
paladins don't exist

1574
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,319
so for me to put myself in the mind of a

1575
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,680
paladin

1576
00:52:14,319 --> 00:52:17,030
what would it be like to smite my

1577
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,800
enemies

1578
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:20,400
[Laughter]

1579
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,319
what does what does a paladin do on a

1580
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,839
day-to-day basis when he's not smiting

1581
00:52:22,319 --> 00:52:25,520
yeah exactly like a druid what would it

1582
00:52:23,839 --> 00:52:26,540
be like to be an animorph and turn into

1583
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,319
a cat i don't know

1584
00:52:26,540 --> 00:52:30,400
[Laughter]

1585
00:52:28,319 --> 00:52:32,460
yeah i probably wouldn't go dungeon

1586
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,319
delvin i'd go and get up to mischief and

1587
00:52:32,460 --> 00:52:35,680
[Laughter]

1588
00:52:34,319 --> 00:52:38,000
yeah right

1589
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,599
do all sorts of other [ __ ] really

1590
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,839
really annoy the dm

1591
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:43,200
actually actually no i i don't fancy

1592
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:46,160
going down that dungeon that you've

1593
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,920
prepared i'm just gonna go and uh play

1594
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,680
tricks on the neighbors yeah

1595
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,119
exactly knock stuff off their shelves

1596
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,200
because

1597
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:54,559
why not

1598
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,839
yeah

1599
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:57,680
um

1600
00:52:55,839 --> 00:52:59,040
is is there anything you wanted to talk

1601
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:03,040
about that we we might not have covered

1602
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:04,720
yet i don't think so um

1603
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,960
i guess i'd just say

1604
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,559
just as a kind of uh

1605
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,400
a thing for for anyone who's listening

1606
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:12,720
to this who mainly

1607
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,640
plays d or you know just kind of sticks

1608
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:16,240
with the big games it would just be and

1609
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,640
this is not at all a self-serving thing

1610
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:20,720
because i'm not a games designer but uh

1611
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,520
just that there's so much cool stuff out

1612
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:23,760
there

1613
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,720
and you know running a running a small

1614
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,119
company

1615
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:28,400
that i hope anyway makes really good

1616
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:30,880
quality products that's certainly our

1617
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:33,040
name there's a lot of cool producers and

1618
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,480
content creators out there and so i

1619
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,119
think it's well worth

1620
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,480
supporting the smaller people and just

1621
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:39,440
kind of

1622
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,440
you know

1623
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,920
give giving giving someone who's just

1624
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,720
starting out a few quid as a way of kind

1625
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,240
of

1626
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:48,319
giving them a boost and i think that's

1627
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:51,280
good for the hobby as a whole just have

1628
00:53:48,319 --> 00:53:53,359
more creative people doing awesome stuff

1629
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,359
so just a little kind of request maybe

1630
00:53:53,359 --> 00:53:57,680
to to think about that

1631
00:53:55,359 --> 00:53:59,599
it encourages that train of thought for

1632
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,839
those people you know it encourages that

1633
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:03,680
i can at least try and put myself out

1634
00:54:01,839 --> 00:54:05,440
there and people do somewhere are

1635
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,720
interested and it that just is a

1636
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,319
self-fulfilling machine because then

1637
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:11,359
other people want to try it and so on

1638
00:54:08,319 --> 00:54:13,280
and so on exactly yeah you have the next

1639
00:54:11,359 --> 00:54:15,440
big thing that has just hasn't happened

1640
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,800
yet yeah just is waiting in the wings

1641
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,160
yeah like a really cool discussion

1642
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,400
podcast for example or whatever i don't

1643
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,640
know uh yeah

1644
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,160
i hear there's a really good one uh

1645
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,480
going around it's called something like

1646
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,119
critic critical something yeah yeah yeah

1647
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,119
i'm sure yeah

1648
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:35,359
uh well um thank you for for today's

1649
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,359
discussion it has been really really

1650
00:54:35,359 --> 00:54:39,680
really fun i've had a lot of uh yeah a

1651
00:54:37,359 --> 00:54:41,200
lot of fun talking about business uh

1652
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,119
which is who thought it i know some

1653
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,119
people might find that surprising uh

1654
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:47,760
yeah maybe this might be your your

1655
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:50,480
lowest uh lowest numbers

1656
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:52,720
episode because it's called business no

1657
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,880
no hopefully not

1658
00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:57,119
don't forget that the you know

1659
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,920
win ads and people that listen to

1660
00:54:57,119 --> 00:54:59,280
into

1661
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,680
internet stuff but to anyone who's

1662
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,440
listened this far thank you i appreciate

1663
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,280
you

1664
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,760
um is there anything you would like to

1665
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:10,559
promote uh well of course uh i would

1666
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:13,839
like to encourage anyone to check out

1667
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:15,520
paladin role playing uh for dice or any

1668
00:55:13,839 --> 00:55:17,200
other accessories our range of other

1669
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,839
bits and pieces is

1670
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:22,079
also growing fast and you can find us at

1671
00:55:19,839 --> 00:55:24,480
paladin roleplaying.com

1672
00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:25,599
we're uk based but we ship worldwide so

1673
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,720
it doesn't matter where in the world you

1674
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:28,480
are

1675
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:30,240
aside from that

1676
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,640
i mean that's that's definitely the main

1677
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:34,319
way to kind of find out what we're doing

1678
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,319
and what i'm doing and and to get in

1679
00:55:34,319 --> 00:55:39,040
touch as i said please do feel free to

1680
00:55:36,319 --> 00:55:40,000
get in touch about anything basically

1681
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,000
um

1682
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,079
it's always nice to hear from people

1683
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,400
uh if there are any simbrain players

1684
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:48,400
i've got a couple of little um pieces on

1685
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,920
the free league workshop which is three

1686
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:55,119
leagues kind of fan publishing facility

1687
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,880
so you can look me up on there um

1688
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:59,040
there's a little house rules thing and

1689
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,799
uh an adventure called the summoning

1690
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,200
which is a one-shot adventure

1691
00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:04,720
but simbroom's not massive so

1692
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,400
i'd be surprised if there's too many

1693
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:07,920
simbrim players you say that gm's

1694
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,160
listening but you are not actually the

1695
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,640
first guest to mention it and i don't

1696
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:14,400
know an episode i think in in this

1697
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:17,359
season actually someone else has

1698
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,720
mentioned it so uh no uh there's two of

1699
00:56:17,359 --> 00:56:20,160
you here

1700
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,760
cool well there's at least two of us

1701
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,000
then that's good

1702
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,839
it's it's it's my all-time favorite

1703
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,880
role-playing game actually i love it wow

1704
00:56:25,839 --> 00:56:31,440
it's really good but yeah and of course

1705
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:33,599
the kickstarter coming next year keep

1706
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,559
your eyes on kickstarter if you're a d d

1707
00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:36,960
player

1708
00:56:34,559 --> 00:56:39,119
and and who isn't then

1709
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,960
yeah check out early next year just

1710
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:43,280
check out uh the kickstarter we'll be

1711
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:45,440
obviously publicizing it on our socials

1712
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,599
we also have facebook and instagram if

1713
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,760
people are on that not to be honest i'm

1714
00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:51,599
not super active but you can find us on

1715
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,280
there yeah that that all that stuff will

1716
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:55,119
be in the episode description as normal

1717
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,200
my question is i'm i'm on the mailing

1718
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:58,640
list from and i have been for years is

1719
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,920
there is there a mailing list for you

1720
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,680
guys as well so people if they want to

1721
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,640
get that kickstarter they can get that

1722
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,160
in their room yeah that's probably the

1723
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,480
best way to do it actually there is a

1724
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:09,200
mailing list of course yes um well you

1725
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,880
know that because you're on it um and in

1726
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,799
fact you can

1727
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:16,319
go to our site and then click on the

1728
00:57:12,799 --> 00:57:18,079
kickstarter tab and at the moment all it

1729
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:19,760
says is there'll be a kickstarter soon

1730
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:21,359
why don't you stick your name down and

1731
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,720
we'll tell you when it happens awesome

1732
00:57:21,359 --> 00:57:25,200
cool that's the easiest way to get on

1733
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,760
the list and yeah we don't

1734
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,119
i hope you agree that like everyone else

1735
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,359
i hate spam

1736
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:32,240
and so i'm really conscious that i don't

1737
00:57:31,359 --> 00:57:34,319
want

1738
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,079
us to be spamming people so we don't

1739
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:38,720
send a ton of emails basically we've got

1740
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:39,440
something exciting happening we let you

1741
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,040
know

1742
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,040
and then if you're not interested we

1743
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:45,599
just leave your load and don't badger

1744
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:48,319
you too much that's the plan yeah no not

1745
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:50,079
at all i wouldn't have even uh yeah

1746
00:57:48,319 --> 00:57:52,000
noticed it to be honest in terms of you

1747
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:54,480
know as a as a nuisance or anything so

1748
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,640
no not all it's it's it's great and uh

1749
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:59,359
you know as i said um i had i used it on

1750
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:02,079
sunday i had my my bag holding

1751
00:57:59,359 --> 00:58:04,400
to take my laptop so i did my dng game

1752
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:07,280
uh i got my pen up here um

1753
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:09,440
my die said lost somewhere is it in the

1754
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,200
big bag of other dice picked up over the

1755
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,400
years so that they're not quite as to

1756
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,559
hand

1757
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,079
i will say oh and i do have the coin uh

1758
00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:18,319
i'll grab it from my chest in a second

1759
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:19,440
but yeah so now i do like that that's a

1760
00:58:18,319 --> 00:58:22,000
legit

1761
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:24,160
legit recommendation uh from me thank

1762
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,480
you yeah oh and actually i would like to

1763
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,559
um one other thing which i always forget

1764
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,119
to plug why because it's i think it's

1765
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:33,280
one of the coolest things we do uh

1766
00:58:31,119 --> 00:58:35,920
we're just into about the middle of the

1767
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:39,119
second season of our dice of the month

1768
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:41,440
club which is our kind of

1769
00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:42,880
luxury subscription service

1770
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:45,920
and

1771
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:47,200
it only opens every seven months so it's

1772
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,520
currently closed but it'll be opening

1773
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,760
again again sort of early next year i'm

1774
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:55,599
not sure exactly what the date is

1775
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:57,440
and you get every month you get one of

1776
00:58:55,599 --> 00:59:00,880
one of our luxury sets that'll be the

1777
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:03,520
metal or wood and we might be

1778
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,400
including stone as an option for the

1779
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,839
next one

1780
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,839
so you get one a month so over seven

1781
00:59:05,839 --> 00:59:08,640
months you build your whole polyhedral

1782
00:59:07,839 --> 00:59:10,400
set

1783
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:12,240
and in addition to your one

1784
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,559
posh dice per month you also get a

1785
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:17,119
random set of our

1786
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:19,680
standard dice so one of our acrylic sets

1787
00:59:17,119 --> 00:59:21,200
and a free gift and the free gifts are

1788
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,839
cool things

1789
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,760
that we manage to track down from

1790
00:59:23,839 --> 00:59:27,280
other people and and friends in the

1791
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,240
role-playing world sometimes it's our

1792
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,480
own stuff

1793
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:32,640
but it's normally stuff we've sourced

1794
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,000
elsewhere and they've it's been a lot of

1795
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,680
fun coming up with the free gifts and

1796
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,720
people have been really really liking

1797
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,520
them so

1798
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,720
that is if if you're into your dice

1799
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,720
and you like the idea of getting

1800
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,720
something once a month that's just cool

1801
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,760
and fun then that might be a good thing

1802
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:49,599
to look into awesome amazing well all

1803
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:52,160
that's left to say is uh thank you ever

1804
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:55,440
so much again uh for today's discussion

1805
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,079
it was uh hugely fun thank you i enjoyed

1806
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,319
it

1807
00:59:56,079 --> 01:00:00,000
uh and as usual to everybody at home

1808
00:59:58,319 --> 01:00:01,520
thank you all for listening uh all the

1809
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,640
links including the mailing lists and

1810
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,400
dive subscriptions and all the other

1811
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,480
lovely stuff will be in the episode

1812
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:09,200
description i would encourage you to

1813
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:11,359
check it all out

1814
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,599
but before we finish neil was kind

1815
01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:16,400
enough to leave a parting gift you can

1816
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:18,640
get 15 off your entire cart at paladin

1817
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:20,720
roleplaying.com when you use the code

1818
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:24,200
think crit 15

1819
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:24,200
that's t-h-i-n-k-c-r-i-t-15

1820
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,119
and now it's time for the patreon shout

1821
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:33,760
outs once again thank you to matt street

1822
01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:34,640
at mpstreet88 on twitter for supporting

1823
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,920
the show

1824
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,920
if you need support running your

1825
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:41,119
personal or business schedule head to

1826
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,799
virtualtimehustle.com or on instagram to

1827
01:00:41,119 --> 01:00:44,880
make that difference between should do

1828
01:00:42,799 --> 01:00:46,720
and done boss it better with support

1829
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:49,040
from cat who will help you get back that

1830
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,480
essential time you've been searching for

1831
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,400
if you would like to support what we do

1832
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:55,119
and get four shout outs a month head

1833
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,640
over to patreon.com thinking critically

1834
01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:59,440
or you can just buy me a coffee at

1835
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:04,440
kofi.com thinking critically thank you

1836
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:04,440
all for listening and good night

1837
01:01:04,530 --> 01:01:11,650
[Applause]

1838
01:01:11,540 --> 01:01:16,619
[Music]

1839
01:01:11,650 --> 01:01:16,619
[Applause]

1840
01:01:18,780 --> 01:01:26,709
[Music]