Burnout

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welcome thinkers to season 4 episode 23

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of thinking critically and apologies for

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the first time ever in the Four Seasons

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full history of the show I missed last

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episode I don't have anything in the can

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and life just ran away from me and we

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totally missed a week of episodes so

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apologies

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to be brutally honest with you this

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episode has been a bit of a a bit of a

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squeeze to get out so I hope you

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appreciate it and enjoy it and the topic

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couldn't have been more appropriate

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as usual this is also a video podcast so

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if you're listening on Spotify you can

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bring up the screen and take a look and

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see my beautiful face or on YouTube

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obviously and also I'm trying something

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a bit new with this episode is a poll so

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for those listeners on Spotify there's a

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poll somewhere

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again to be frank I haven't used to pull

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myself uh with a podcast episode so

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we're going completely off the tracks of

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this one but basically

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I'm very undecided about the mustache

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very off topic I know apologies such as

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life I don't know I'm torn one day I'll

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wake up and go oh God I hate it get rid

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of it next day I'll wake up and go

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that's smart

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and I'm really torn so it's poll on

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Spotify click vote however it works I

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don't know or feel free to comment on

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YouTube videos or comment on the website

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or whatever it may be

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let me know otherwise

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let's go on with the show

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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thank you

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and today I'm joined by Harry cowdry who

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is a 10-year veteran of d d longer than

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me so I'm very much looking forward to

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learning some some tidbits here also a

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long time listener of the show

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definitely on the podium of you know top

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three fans uh and it has also recently

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taken me under his wing for Warhammer

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40K my extra new hobby on top so yes

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welcome to the show Harry why don't you

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tell us a little bit more about yourself

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that's okay well and I'm very welcome to

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be here

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um like I said long term listener I'm

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absolutely been listening for quite some

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time so I'm finally glad to be on the

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show but it's quite a long story short

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you know like you said I've been playing

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D D since I was 18 I'm now well I'm 29

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now but uh yeah so it's been a long time

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I've dm'd most of my

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d d career outside of d d you know I'm a

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student nurse so um and that's played a

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lot into

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what's I suppose today's topic really

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So yeah thank you for that Segway yeah

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yeah that's ex expertly flipped uh so

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talking of that today's topic is burnout

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so what does that mean to you in the DND

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and wider tdrpg framework so to me

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burnout is one big thing burnout as a

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whole is for me especially is

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lack of drive and lack of

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you can't get that creativity or that

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energy you once had or the motivation

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you once had so for me especially I've

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suffered from burnout and I am still

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suffering from especially D burnout

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um and as much as I try to get back into

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dming I sit down that one session and

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we'll be five minutes in and I can feel

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that feeling of

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you know I don't want to be doing this

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or I have not prepared enough or am I

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doing something wrong are my players

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going to enjoy what I've prepared

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so to me in the TTG RPG and DND

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community that is burnout or what DM

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burnout as I as it's probably more

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commonly known as

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so in my head I've obviously and and I

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again thought I think I'm gonna say full

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disclosure like I'm giving some big

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reveal like oh I too have suffered from

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it but I think pretty much everybody

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does yeah in fact every DM I know with

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all the games I've played with have all

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been like I'm gonna take a break for a

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month and we're just not going to play

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I'm not going to talk about it and

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that's fine so it's not it's not some

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big super secret club that I'm about

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yeah I'm making myself sound like I'm

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above but um what I was getting at is

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that often it is that like let me take a

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step away from the table but I like how

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your approach is your kind of Vector on

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this discussion so far is

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that anxiety at the table almost which I

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guess I would I would say is like the

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initial maybe the initial stages maybe

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your early warning signs would you say

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when you have those feelings of like oh

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God this this session is going to be

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terrible because my mind's just not in

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it it's probably your first red flag to

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say

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whoops maybe you wanna not run next

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week's session definitely so one thing I

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have I've suffered with DM burnout for a

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very long time and I'm what everybody

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calls a forever DM so as much don't get

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me wrong I love Dungeons and Dragons and

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I love TableTop RPGs I absolutely love

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them and what my frustration is is that

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I still love playing d d like there is

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not a moment where I don't enjoy having

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my friends are on the table rolling some

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dice creating stories

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my issue is

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when I'm the one having to manage all of

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that and plan all of that now

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I like I said I love Dungeons and

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Dragons the issue is and especially when

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it comes to burnout is when you've

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planned everything and you've got that

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anxiety like you said

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you know you've got all your encounters

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planned you've got okay they're fighting

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a bunch of red Wizards they're gonna go

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in and charge in and do something like

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that and

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when you've planned something and the

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players are low are

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seem to be engaged or they're not

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engaging it's like have I done something

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wrong am I trying to get you back on

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track am I just am I too am I holding on

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to you too much should I give you more

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freedom and it's trying to encourage

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them

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or as a as a DM it's trying to encourage

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a player to engage in your story so

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you're in having fun as well as them and

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it's when you get to a point of

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especially 10 years now I know there's

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DMS that go on for that a lot way longer

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than I have you've used up all your

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ideas and it's you're trying to create

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something when you've got no juice left

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so one thing I struggle with is when I'm

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writing a story or when I'm saying doing

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one of the standard Wizards of the Coast

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storybooks when I've got my story or the

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pre-planned story in front of me how do

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I

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act out that character or how do I

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put my own twist on things so this so

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the story isn't so

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uh linear or the story isn't so black

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and white

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what about yourself have you ever count

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like as from your podcast you've had

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some amazing guests and some you know

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Amazing Stories so what about yourself

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well we we would have touched on it in

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the show in the past uh in in that we I

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think we've had episodes and all sorts

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of stuff for me personally and here's

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here's a question that I'm going to come

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back around to you on is as my

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DM my campaign is all fully Homebrew the

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weird the weirdest thing I found and the

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reason why I'm talking about this is a

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direct correlation between what I'm

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about to describe and the burnout that

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I've experienced is that it's proper

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rubber band it's proper springy so

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there'll be periods of like [ __ ] I need

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to do like a lot I need to design four

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floor Dungeons and count like seven

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encounters

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make it all congruent make it all make

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sense in the universe uh we need this

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and then that can happen and then this

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that and the other and then obviously

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obviously as the Trope would be correct

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in that they never hit that or it takes

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them 10 more sessions to hit it before I

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do and then I've got nothing to do and I

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just like I've done basically no prep

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for the last

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maybe three months because I kind of had

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this one in the books for ages and

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I had nothing to do because they're

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going through it at a pretty typical

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pace for them which is to stay slow yeah

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those who listen to The Stream will know

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that the last two sessions I figured

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they would that would be the end of that

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chapter uh and it has not been the case

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so the title is like updating I'm like

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really struggling to find a title for

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the session because I'm like you really

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should be there by now I can't I can't

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think of any more it's synonyms for like

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where you're at in the in the story

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so in those periods it's a piece of cake

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because I'm like

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it's about as close as you can get to

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emulating being a player because there's

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very little upfront stuff you have to do

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and I can just like eat dinner run

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upstairs and be like okay cool I'm the

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third one here and yeah we ready to go

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okay let's go and that's it and open up

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one note and bishopbrush it's there

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contrast with like cut ending a a an arc

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and going into a new chapter or starting

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from scratch is like oh god I've got

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it's that blank page that blank page

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writing where they always say

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for writers the advice for writers is

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always like get some words down because

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it's much easier to continue when you

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have hello my name is Bob on the page

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and it is a completely blank page but

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obviously you'll you'll start like that

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with like what's the enemy uh the no

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dragon and like so I've I've

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find that my burnout obviously as I said

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correlates with those periods of

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hyperactivity versus inactivity

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so at the moment I'm very fortunate as I

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said I can genuinely look forward to to

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sessions without having that pit of

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anxiety of oh God have I done too much

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or too little there's always a flicker

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there's always

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am I in the right headspace am I you

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know not tired enough am I gonna

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you know be able to improvise what they

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they come up with and luckily with you

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know the decent group of players that

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they have it's and we're all on the same

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page it all kind of makes my life

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easier now

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in the past

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I think what exacerbates DM burnout is

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to end your players

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uh maybe not as

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what's that what's the politically

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correct term engaged enthused yeah

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infused

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and

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and it's something we've talked about

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several times in the show before and I

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really I still like to talk about it and

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bring it up because it is

272
00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:55,440
unique to obviously it's not completely

273
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,880
unique to d d but I can't think of any

274
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,860
other hobby that I've done in the past

275
00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,600
any other social activity where people

276
00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:03,480
can have such

277
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,440
vast different reasons for sitting at

278
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,260
the table

279
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,459
or for doing an activity yeah so like if

280
00:11:07,260 --> 00:11:09,480
you're sitting with your mates and

281
00:11:08,459 --> 00:11:11,940
you're playing

282
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,279
OverWatch for example you all kind of

283
00:11:11,940 --> 00:11:15,839
want to win the fight yes some of you

284
00:11:14,279 --> 00:11:17,279
are having a few beers at the same time

285
00:11:15,839 --> 00:11:19,740
like chatting away and others are like

286
00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:22,140
making shots and cooling shots and you

287
00:11:19,740 --> 00:11:24,540
know defend B and that but broadly you

288
00:11:22,140 --> 00:11:25,920
want to win exactly the match you're

289
00:11:24,540 --> 00:11:27,720
there you're playing the same game it's

290
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,600
all very constrained

291
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,160
likewise with you know 40K or Warhammer

292
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,040
or something you and your opponent

293
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:37,320
you're there to play a very regimented

294
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,180
game like you'd absolutely want to win

295
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,320
yes you might be there because something

296
00:11:39,180 --> 00:11:42,600
to do on a Wednesday night but you're

297
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:45,720
still like going going through the very

298
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:48,600
similar emotions no one's there just for

299
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,940
for like I don't know I mean yeah yeah

300
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,720
but we're all there for fun yeah indeed

301
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:53,339
yeah

302
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,200
um but a couple of my players like one

303
00:11:53,339 --> 00:11:57,720
guy uh who have mentioned several times

304
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,459
before he for him or at least in the

305
00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,860
past maybe less so now

306
00:11:59,459 --> 00:12:03,959
for him it was very much was like a

307
00:12:01,860 --> 00:12:06,120
social thing and you could swap out d d

308
00:12:03,959 --> 00:12:08,160
for literally any other social event and

309
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,480
he would have been happy days like in

310
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,800
fact he's asked us when we've missed

311
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,440
sessions to be like oh do you want to go

312
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:16,500
longboarding instead that's how vast a

313
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,600
golf it was between him and like d d was

314
00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:20,100
incidental sitting down and rolling Dice

315
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,519
and playing his characters incidental to

316
00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:25,560
I want to chat to my friends for a bit

317
00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:27,120
and I had other players who were like no

318
00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:28,140
I've been waiting two weeks for this

319
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,820
session because I really want to find

320
00:12:28,140 --> 00:12:31,740
out what happened and I want to use this

321
00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:33,300
new spell and I've leveled up and I've

322
00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:35,940
got this feat to use and this that and

323
00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:37,200
the other and that's why I love this

324
00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:39,899
discussion and talking about that kind

325
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,820
of stuff because that it's it boggles my

326
00:12:39,899 --> 00:12:43,860
mind how those two people can some still

327
00:12:41,820 --> 00:12:46,680
hell still somehow come together and

328
00:12:43,860 --> 00:12:50,160
have the same I have actually been in

329
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:52,560
your exact same spot so many times so

330
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,980
exactly like I think at one point I had

331
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:58,980
a table so I I was doing hoarder the

332
00:12:55,980 --> 00:13:01,500
dragon Queen and to this day I still

333
00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:03,720
will say it was my favorite campaign to

334
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:04,920
run it was a wizard coast standard

335
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,500
Adventure I think it was one of their

336
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,240
first ones I ever did for fifth edition

337
00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:10,620
and I know everybody it gets a lot of

338
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,820
bad rep for being oh it was poorly

339
00:13:10,620 --> 00:13:13,380
written they could have done this blah

340
00:13:11,820 --> 00:13:15,899
blah blah the first book They're gonna

341
00:13:13,380 --> 00:13:17,760
make mistakes but for the here and now I

342
00:13:15,899 --> 00:13:21,240
will say it was my favorite campaign to

343
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:23,279
run I had so many my players like you

344
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,380
said at that point when I was running it

345
00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:29,279
they we all came round that table to do

346
00:13:25,380 --> 00:13:31,200
one thing play D D and it was my that

347
00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:34,200
was probably like maybe five six years

348
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:38,519
ago now and I was probably in the prime

349
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:42,180
of my DM career and wow yeah I like I

350
00:13:38,519 --> 00:13:44,279
absolutely loved dming yeah I would I

351
00:13:42,180 --> 00:13:46,860
would say I love dming more then than I

352
00:13:44,279 --> 00:13:50,160
would say I'd enjoy it now or I just do

353
00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:51,540
it because no one else wants to

354
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,339
um

355
00:13:51,540 --> 00:13:55,380
so

356
00:13:53,339 --> 00:13:57,180
like I was saying I at one point I had

357
00:13:55,380 --> 00:13:58,380
about not eight or nine people around my

358
00:13:57,180 --> 00:14:00,899
table

359
00:13:58,380 --> 00:14:01,980
to play D D and to play the adventure

360
00:14:00,899 --> 00:14:04,440
and

361
00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:06,720
I was writing these big long week like I

362
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,279
would come home from work and I would

363
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,959
spend my evenings writing the next

364
00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:12,540
chapter of the book out or writing the

365
00:14:09,959 --> 00:14:14,100
next set of encounters or yeah I would

366
00:14:12,540 --> 00:14:16,380
be discussing with my players throughout

367
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:18,839
the day right your character's leveling

368
00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:21,060
up what spells can they use you know and

369
00:14:18,839 --> 00:14:22,920
they were like can I do X Y and Z at

370
00:14:21,060 --> 00:14:25,019
level three no you cannot have five

371
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,700
attacks but you know wait until you're

372
00:14:25,019 --> 00:14:29,399
like level 15 then yeah maybe we can

373
00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:31,620
have this chat again and you know

374
00:14:29,399 --> 00:14:34,200
um it was such a good in my experience

375
00:14:31,620 --> 00:14:37,139
anyway it was such a good time to be to

376
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:39,180
to run the campaign and my character my

377
00:14:37,139 --> 00:14:40,620
characters my players sorry all came

378
00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:42,720
around for that for that reason to play

379
00:14:40,620 --> 00:14:45,240
D D now as

380
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,680
I think you know five or six years ago

381
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,320
we were a lot younger then we had a lot

382
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:51,959
more free time yeah and I think as we've

383
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,000
aged and some players have drifted off

384
00:14:51,959 --> 00:14:56,820
you know I've got a few new ones in

385
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:59,160
their replacement you know life and the

386
00:14:56,820 --> 00:15:00,839
relationship between my I say my players

387
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,120
they were my friend they still are my

388
00:15:00,839 --> 00:15:05,100
friends you know yes yeah first and

389
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,260
foremost they are my friends not my

390
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:08,820
players but you know the relationship

391
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:10,500
some of the relationships between my

392
00:15:08,820 --> 00:15:12,720
friends strange you know and it caused

393
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:15,720
that tension of the table which I think

394
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,760
affected how especially me it affected

395
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,980
how I've DM because it's like right I

396
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,420
can't have you at the table anymore or I

397
00:15:19,980 --> 00:15:23,459
can't have two players at the table

398
00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:26,760
anymore because I felt like

399
00:15:23,459 --> 00:15:30,779
their relationship as individuals would

400
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:33,480
affect the way the game was played and

401
00:15:30,779 --> 00:15:35,760
my table has never really been Ultra

402
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:38,639
role play Heavy I've tried to encourage

403
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,740
it you know I'm I as a DM are quite role

404
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:43,139
play Heavy because I like the idea you

405
00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:44,820
know every NPC is different yes every

406
00:15:43,139 --> 00:15:47,639
character is different so why would you

407
00:15:44,820 --> 00:15:49,440
not have a funny accent or one NPC and a

408
00:15:47,639 --> 00:15:52,500
normal I'm a not so funny Accent on

409
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,480
another NPC and going back to the

410
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:58,139
relationship of my my players and why

411
00:15:54,480 --> 00:16:00,300
I'm in the situation I'm in now and many

412
00:15:58,139 --> 00:16:03,120
other people find themselves in now is

413
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:05,880
as a DM I think the relationship you

414
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:08,279
have with your table is very much like a

415
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,800
human body as the DM you are the brain

416
00:16:08,279 --> 00:16:12,660
of that of of the table you know you're

417
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,240
the eyes and ears you are the five

418
00:16:12,660 --> 00:16:17,519
senses of the human body you know your

419
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:20,100
every trap your every tractor plays

420
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:23,100
spring your every sound every smell

421
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:25,079
every sight they see the players or the

422
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:26,040
rest of the all they make the game

423
00:16:25,079 --> 00:16:29,519
happen

424
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,800
and by you as the DM you help guide them

425
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:34,079
through life you help make sure that all

426
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,420
everything works bringing my nursing

427
00:16:34,079 --> 00:16:38,339
background into this now I'm gonna say

428
00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:40,800
yeah I was gonna say it's showing off

429
00:16:38,339 --> 00:16:43,860
now yeah sure enough now so uh anyway

430
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:46,860
back to burnout so as

431
00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:49,380
local saying and as as DM you're making

432
00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:52,079
sure your players are having fun you

433
00:16:49,380 --> 00:16:54,000
know I my table has always been Fair

434
00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:57,120
I've always enjoyed a serious campaign

435
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,220
so my my tables have always had sort of

436
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,019
either a heavy political theme or a

437
00:16:59,220 --> 00:17:03,899
heavy dark Sinister thing but that's

438
00:17:01,019 --> 00:17:05,760
because that's that's what I enjoy dming

439
00:17:03,899 --> 00:17:07,079
and my players seem to enjoy that as

440
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,919
well otherwise they wouldn't keep going

441
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:13,559
back each week yes so I enjoy a good

442
00:17:10,919 --> 00:17:15,240
serious campaign and um

443
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:17,579
it's not for everybody and I understand

444
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,860
that it's not for everybody and writing

445
00:17:17,579 --> 00:17:22,620
those big dark Sinister scenes where

446
00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:24,419
you've got the arch enemy or and you

447
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:27,059
finally get you finally get to their

448
00:17:24,419 --> 00:17:29,760
Lair and you're having this big standoff

449
00:17:27,059 --> 00:17:32,760
and your players overcome them or in my

450
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:35,220
case when I was told when I was asked

451
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:38,280
you know do you mind switching DMS and I

452
00:17:35,220 --> 00:17:40,020
jumped at that opportunity I shot myself

453
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,539
in the foot by having the big bad kill

454
00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:44,940
everybody off it's like the first few

455
00:17:42,539 --> 00:17:46,559
turns and I was like and every one of

456
00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:48,299
the things I think leads to my burnout

457
00:17:46,559 --> 00:17:51,240
is probably that scene

458
00:17:48,299 --> 00:17:53,160
because I often Replay that scene in my

459
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,299
head and it is kind of like a guilt

460
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,740
thing for me

461
00:17:54,299 --> 00:17:58,140
because

462
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:59,640
when you're dming for so long and you've

463
00:17:58,140 --> 00:18:01,679
done all this work you've done all this

464
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:05,400
effort and it's nice for the players to

465
00:18:01,679 --> 00:18:07,799
overcome that but selfishly and I I

466
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,559
admit it I was I was probably a selfish

467
00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:11,340
DM at that time well at that moment at

468
00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:13,860
least

469
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:16,320
I had the big bad win

470
00:18:13,860 --> 00:18:18,600
because I was like actually

471
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,559
the players could overcome this

472
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:24,660
and all the work they were leading to

473
00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:26,160
had kind of put it in a 50 50 scenario

474
00:18:24,660 --> 00:18:29,160
that the players could win or the big

475
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,559
bad could win but as a DM like I said

476
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:34,020
you're the brains of the operation and

477
00:18:31,559 --> 00:18:37,559
after dming for this point five or six

478
00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:39,360
years I was already suffering yeah I was

479
00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:41,640
already suffering from

480
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:44,100
I'd say the early signs of burnout like

481
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:47,280
I couldn't create anymore I felt like

482
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:50,280
the creative flow had left and I wanted

483
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:54,900
to play D D I just didn't want to run d

484
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:56,220
d and it was like okay I want to be I

485
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,679
want to be the person that Springs the

486
00:18:56,220 --> 00:19:00,360
Trap I want to be the person that causes

487
00:18:58,679 --> 00:19:01,860
the shenanigans I want to have the

488
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:04,080
argument with a bar keeper because he

489
00:19:01,860 --> 00:19:06,660
won't offer me a five copper discount on

490
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,600
a drink that cost me six copper you know

491
00:19:06,660 --> 00:19:11,640
yeah yeah

492
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:14,760
it's trivia but I I wanted to be that

493
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:18,059
player I didn't want to be that DM and

494
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:21,179
we had a lovely DM who came after me and

495
00:19:18,059 --> 00:19:22,080
I was so engrossed in his campaign as a

496
00:19:21,179 --> 00:19:24,299
character

497
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:27,179
and but the other players were so used

498
00:19:24,299 --> 00:19:30,960
to how idm'd and the style of my DM

499
00:19:27,179 --> 00:19:33,660
dming that they couldn't get on with him

500
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,340
all right it was a real shame because I

501
00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:37,140
I'll still say this to his face now that

502
00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:38,760
you as a player you were one of my

503
00:19:37,140 --> 00:19:40,860
favorite DMs

504
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,120
and it was a real shame that the rest of

505
00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:44,340
them couldn't

506
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:46,260
they would they were so heavily in my

507
00:19:44,340 --> 00:19:48,240
opinion they were disinterested because

508
00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:50,460
they were so used to how I ran things

509
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,799
and they were so used to the rulings

510
00:19:50,460 --> 00:19:54,660
that I would say I'm a big fan of the

511
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:57,179
rule of cool if something's cool all the

512
00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:58,679
rules go out the window so if you if you

513
00:19:57,179 --> 00:20:02,160
wanted a cast

514
00:19:58,679 --> 00:20:04,400
two spells which I know in in especially

515
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,380
if we're talking about Dungeons uh

516
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,780
yeah

517
00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:12,900
if you wanted to cast two spells but you

518
00:20:09,780 --> 00:20:14,880
done it in a way that was cinematically

519
00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:16,740
really cool then I'd be like do you know

520
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,299
what fine do it

521
00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:20,640
but you know

522
00:20:18,299 --> 00:20:22,799
that's 50 of the listeners dropping it

523
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,260
there in their mouth fifty percent your

524
00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:28,460
listeners going bro I've had enough

525
00:20:25,260 --> 00:20:28,460
he doesn't know what he's talking about

526
00:20:29,580 --> 00:20:33,960
Trump's all where the DM after me was

527
00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:35,880
very much uh as I like to say a stickler

528
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,400
for the rules and that's fine that was

529
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:41,580
completely fine but I I enjoyed that

530
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:44,039
because it you know it limited I say

531
00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:47,460
limited it didn't it didn't limit it

532
00:20:44,039 --> 00:20:50,100
limit the flow of things it made sure

533
00:20:47,460 --> 00:20:53,340
mechanically and cinematically the game

534
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:56,340
worked but so but so many people used to

535
00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:57,660
my my rule breaking at the table they

536
00:20:56,340 --> 00:20:59,880
were like no I've had enough it's not

537
00:20:57,660 --> 00:21:03,059
fun anymore and I've no blame it yeah

538
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:05,220
and I was like that's not right but I

539
00:21:03,059 --> 00:21:08,220
did eventually take over as DM again but

540
00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:10,620
we ran a different campaign and

541
00:21:08,220 --> 00:21:13,440
I think from that point I think burnout

542
00:21:10,620 --> 00:21:16,260
had was that's it and it's like that

543
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,660
today I struggle to

544
00:21:16,260 --> 00:21:20,460
come up with scenarios that are

545
00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:21,780
interesting I think there are there is

546
00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:23,580
the odd session where it's like oh my

547
00:21:21,780 --> 00:21:24,900
God Harry's got his flow back it's going

548
00:21:23,580 --> 00:21:27,120
to be a really good session next week

549
00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:29,159
and it's like no we're back to this

550
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:30,659
dreary old we're going through the

551
00:21:29,159 --> 00:21:33,840
icelandale we're doing this we're

552
00:21:30,659 --> 00:21:34,679
picking up this yeah and it's like I

553
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,440
can't

554
00:21:34,679 --> 00:21:39,600
are just calm I don't know how to finish

555
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,120
that sentence it's like I'm trying my

556
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,080
best to make this fun but I'm not having

557
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:46,200
fun

558
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:49,020
and if I'm not having fun as DM and I

559
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,419
know it shows and it affects you know

560
00:21:49,020 --> 00:21:52,919
it's like an infection if it's if it's

561
00:21:51,419 --> 00:21:55,380
showing on your face it's gonna show on

562
00:21:52,919 --> 00:21:57,120
other people's face yeah one thing I

563
00:21:55,380 --> 00:21:58,740
always found is if a player is

564
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:00,600
disinterested they'll pick up their

565
00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:01,980
phone and they'll scroll through

566
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,740
Facebook or they'll scroll through

567
00:22:01,980 --> 00:22:08,039
something and it's like if I can see

568
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:10,980
that other people can see that and they

569
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:13,740
are going to assume that's okay to do

570
00:22:10,980 --> 00:22:16,740
and one thing at my my table now I often

571
00:22:13,740 --> 00:22:18,419
see players do that and it used to

572
00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:21,000
really phase me but

573
00:22:18,419 --> 00:22:22,380
it doesn't anymore and it's like you

574
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,480
know we're just

575
00:22:22,380 --> 00:22:27,659
five or six people around the table now

576
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,640
and it's like yeah let's just

577
00:22:27,659 --> 00:22:32,640
yeah no one's doing it to be well

578
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,559
probably to be like malicious it's just

579
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,320
a habit for a lot of people it's just

580
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:39,900
habit of like oh I've got my DND beyond

581
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:42,419
my thing up oh let's just do this and

582
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:45,600
let's do this but and that's probably

583
00:22:42,419 --> 00:22:48,480
another symptom of my burnout is when I

584
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:51,419
can see players disinterested I then

585
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:54,960
become disinterested as well

586
00:22:51,419 --> 00:22:58,200
yeah which is brings us back well done

587
00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,980
again to that the lack of the enthusiasm

588
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,299
on some players just yeah which

589
00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:05,340
originally when I was describing that

590
00:23:03,299 --> 00:23:07,080
player earlier on who was like oh were

591
00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:08,820
we playing tonight I'm halfway up a

592
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,919
mountain and we'd go okay well I guess

593
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:12,000
you're not that a bit like you just

594
00:23:10,919 --> 00:23:14,760
described

595
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,740
used to be like okay well he doesn't

596
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,720
care and he's wasting my time and this

597
00:23:16,740 --> 00:23:21,900
that and the other but then after

598
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,520
several prayers to myself to say that

599
00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:26,280
again like you said they keep coming

600
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,460
back like but that is not insignificant

601
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,380
amount of time to waste quote unquote

602
00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:33,419
so there he must be getting value from

603
00:23:31,380 --> 00:23:34,980
it yeah so that's all that's that's the

604
00:23:33,419 --> 00:23:36,799
bear minute like you're happy you're

605
00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:39,299
done you're done like that's Happy Days

606
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:41,340
they're happy to spend four hours with

607
00:23:39,299 --> 00:23:43,799
you that's more than I can say about

608
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:45,799
most other people in the world so unless

609
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:49,260
they're being paid

610
00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:51,360
yeah indeed yeah you know that's the

611
00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:53,159
squids in yeah

612
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:54,780
um but there's there's a couple of

613
00:23:53,159 --> 00:23:58,679
things there you you mentioned that I

614
00:23:54,780 --> 00:24:00,840
wanted to to LEAP back on about the how

615
00:23:58,679 --> 00:24:03,480
you were your analogy for like DM is the

616
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,640
brain and the people the organs and I

617
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,919
think

618
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:10,679
one major contributing factor to

619
00:24:07,919 --> 00:24:12,240
potentially two burnout is the

620
00:24:10,679 --> 00:24:14,400
responsibility

621
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:17,940
I know people say a DM is a player too

622
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:20,580
yes absolutely true I agree 100 there is

623
00:24:17,940 --> 00:24:23,280
significant substantial differences like

624
00:24:20,580 --> 00:24:25,620
there there is they're not the same they

625
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:29,940
are there interacting with a framework

626
00:24:25,620 --> 00:24:31,679
but in vastly different ways and one has

627
00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:32,700
more responsibility than the others I

628
00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:34,080
know that there's a lot of people out

629
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:36,659
there that will say nope

630
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,400
players responsibility to you know to

631
00:24:36,659 --> 00:24:40,320
not be [ __ ] and to make sure

632
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,179
everyone's having a good time yes both

633
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,140
of those things are true but then they

634
00:24:42,179 --> 00:24:45,659
like

635
00:24:43,140 --> 00:24:48,600
you remove the DM and the wheels fall

636
00:24:45,659 --> 00:24:50,880
off of that session yeah that's why you

637
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,860
can get away with jagering one of the

638
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,679
players for one session if they can't

639
00:24:52,860 --> 00:24:58,020
make it you rarely can get away with the

640
00:24:55,679 --> 00:24:59,880
without the DM and I think that's the

641
00:24:58,020 --> 00:25:03,179
you know that's that inherent difference

642
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:06,240
at that responsibility weighs one thing

643
00:25:03,179 --> 00:25:08,220
I go to is you always see Memes on the

644
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,960
internet of oh boy your DM a drink next

645
00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:11,820
time you see it well buy your DM snacks

646
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,640
they'll love you forever there's a

647
00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:18,240
reason those memes exist because the DM

648
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,520
has the additional responsibilities

649
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,080
so everything you've said is 100 trick

650
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,880
is true yes the players do have a

651
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,740
responsibility of the response but in my

652
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,080
opinion players have the responsibility

653
00:25:25,740 --> 00:25:30,480
to know what their character does

654
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,840
they need to manage their own characters

655
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,400
like XP and things like that the DM

656
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,500
tells you how much you have is your

657
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:40,500
responsibility to make sure it's correct

658
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:41,580
and ultimately not be not be a dick at

659
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:43,740
the table if you're going to be a dick

660
00:25:41,580 --> 00:25:45,539
at the table the DM then the

661
00:25:43,740 --> 00:25:47,400
responsibility falls back to the DM to

662
00:25:45,539 --> 00:25:50,460
tell you to shut up to tell you right

663
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,440
yes and you're right yeah it falls back

664
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:54,960
on the DM to say no heads back in the

665
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,919
game or you're free to leave you know

666
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,740
yeah

667
00:25:55,919 --> 00:26:01,320
and everybody expects the DM

668
00:25:58,740 --> 00:26:03,539
to have everything planned and ready for

669
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,600
that session I mean yes that's the job

670
00:26:03,539 --> 00:26:09,179
of the DM to have your session planned

671
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,940
out that's the additional responsibility

672
00:26:09,179 --> 00:26:15,179
a player does not have a player turns up

673
00:26:11,940 --> 00:26:16,919
to be a part of the adventure

674
00:26:15,179 --> 00:26:19,260
and that is great and that's what we

675
00:26:16,919 --> 00:26:22,260
want we want players to be engaged in

676
00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:27,059
the adventure but if you have a DM

677
00:26:22,260 --> 00:26:29,820
who isn't infused to be a DM or is stuck

678
00:26:27,059 --> 00:26:32,100
in a position where no one else wants to

679
00:26:29,820 --> 00:26:35,340
be DM and it falls on them

680
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:37,140
to then create everything when they have

681
00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:39,840
nothing to create or they've got nothing

682
00:26:37,140 --> 00:26:43,140
left to create or feel like they can't

683
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,059
contribute in a creative way that you as

684
00:26:43,140 --> 00:26:47,580
a player can enjoy

685
00:26:45,059 --> 00:26:51,240
then we we have burnout

686
00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:54,120
we have burnt out and we have nothing

687
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,980
like it say to say I use the term we

688
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:58,740
have nothing to give incredibly lightly

689
00:26:55,980 --> 00:27:03,240
because obviously we have something to

690
00:26:58,740 --> 00:27:06,419
give but the responsibility of a DM is

691
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:09,919
so much more than a player and as a

692
00:27:06,419 --> 00:27:09,919
forever DM I can say that

693
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:14,940
I don't want to get like the tiny

694
00:27:12,299 --> 00:27:16,980
violins out yeah I know I kind of feel

695
00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:18,179
I'm gonna have to get violin and go oh

696
00:27:16,980 --> 00:27:19,740
boohoo

697
00:27:18,179 --> 00:27:21,600
but you know

698
00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:24,179
I say all of this you know

699
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,980
like slapstick comedy you know like I

700
00:27:24,179 --> 00:27:29,039
said at the beginning I love the Indie

701
00:27:25,980 --> 00:27:31,380
and I love TableTop RPGs and there's

702
00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:32,820
nothing that will take my enjoyment away

703
00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:36,840
from it

704
00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:39,360
um I just find that there needs to be a

705
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,340
players need to be run their own

706
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,320
campaigns I think if you've been a

707
00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:45,000
player for so long and I think it's a

708
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,279
lot of apprehension on the players side

709
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,100
as well I think it's a lot of oh the DM

710
00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:52,140
has to do X Y and Z yes but I think

711
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:54,360
every player should be a DM and every DM

712
00:27:52,140 --> 00:27:56,460
should be a player yeah there should

713
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:58,260
never be a forever DM or forever player

714
00:27:56,460 --> 00:28:00,539
you know if you find yourself in that

715
00:27:58,260 --> 00:28:02,600
situation which is very I say it's very

716
00:28:00,539 --> 00:28:07,320
sad I'm with that situation

717
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:09,480
you know and it's a situation where I

718
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,220
think a player and I think some players

719
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,860
get the apprehension of oh I don't know

720
00:28:11,220 --> 00:28:16,799
if I'll be that good or I don't know you

721
00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:19,140
know dming's all about how you feel it's

722
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:21,539
all about your own style no one wants to

723
00:28:19,140 --> 00:28:23,340
copy anybody else okay yeah you can look

724
00:28:21,539 --> 00:28:25,679
up examples there are great DMS out

725
00:28:23,340 --> 00:28:28,380
there that you can pick up examples and

726
00:28:25,679 --> 00:28:30,720
tips for you know a lot when I first

727
00:28:28,380 --> 00:28:33,240
dm'd I suffered massively from the

728
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,919
Mercer effect massively from the Mercer

729
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,620
effect and I was like you know I'm never

730
00:28:34,919 --> 00:28:40,140
gonna be him I'm not him so why try to

731
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:42,120
DM like him let me do my own thing and I

732
00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:44,400
quickly gathered it and I quickly picked

733
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,380
up my own way of doing things and I was

734
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,299
like do you know what I actually prefer

735
00:28:46,380 --> 00:28:50,400
the way I've done it to try and copy

736
00:28:48,299 --> 00:28:53,159
someone else who you know for someone

737
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,799
who's an actor and someone who isn't an

738
00:28:53,159 --> 00:28:57,360
actor you know there's a massive massive

739
00:28:55,799 --> 00:29:00,720
difference or a massive Gap I'm trying

740
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:03,000
to try and create and I think most DMS

741
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,940
especially in the last 10 years any new

742
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:09,059
DMS that have tried to be

743
00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:11,760
or tried not to copy Matthew Mercer or

744
00:29:09,059 --> 00:29:13,559
any other famous DM would probably be

745
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,580
being a little bit lying to themselves

746
00:29:13,559 --> 00:29:19,620
you know yeah I think we've all tried it

747
00:29:16,580 --> 00:29:21,840
or at least tried to dabble in it you

748
00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:23,580
know I was going to say you need to be

749
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,080
uh have my level of arrogance because

750
00:29:23,580 --> 00:29:26,460
then you completely sidestep it because

751
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,320
you just think you're the best anyway so

752
00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:30,720
it's fine

753
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,179
you know if and that's okay if you can

754
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,820
do that then that's okay but I think a

755
00:29:33,179 --> 00:29:37,799
lot of us yeah a lot of I think a lot of

756
00:29:35,820 --> 00:29:40,320
us fall into that category especially in

757
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:42,539
the last 10 years and I think there's a

758
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,340
lot of outside influence

759
00:29:42,539 --> 00:29:45,960
you know that's what you need as a team

760
00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:48,539
you need a lot of outside influence to

761
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,919
fuel your creativity to feel fuel your

762
00:29:48,539 --> 00:29:51,899
games but

763
00:29:49,919 --> 00:29:54,600
Tony you're back to burnout is when

764
00:29:51,899 --> 00:29:57,659
you've lost that interest in

765
00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,120
I say lost interest you know you've got

766
00:29:57,659 --> 00:30:02,460
that dis association with wanting to be

767
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,440
a DM or wanting to write the stories or

768
00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:08,220
wanting to

769
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:11,159
be the one that's you know oh right okay

770
00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:13,320
my encounter you're in a forest there's

771
00:30:11,159 --> 00:30:16,020
goblins or yeah you know fight the

772
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,960
Goblins like the Goblins yeah it's it

773
00:30:16,020 --> 00:30:22,440
it's a it's kind of a self it's like a

774
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,899
a spiral I want to avoid too many

775
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:28,080
allegories to like mental health issues

776
00:30:24,899 --> 00:30:29,460
but they are just about to say you burn

777
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,140
out and burn out from mental health

778
00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:34,080
issues are two different things you know

779
00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:35,880
and that's one thing to it to you know

780
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,100
to have someone who's

781
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,659
suffering from a mental health burn that

782
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:41,700
was completely different from DM burnout

783
00:30:39,659 --> 00:30:45,659
I think it's very good that you actually

784
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:47,580
brought that up yeah but it's the spiral

785
00:30:45,659 --> 00:30:49,320
is similar in that like if you lose that

786
00:30:47,580 --> 00:30:51,299
but I felt it before I've been like oh

787
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,640
God I gotta go upstairs and perform for

788
00:30:51,299 --> 00:30:56,640
four hours and then it it makes you well

789
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,799
certainly in my case you you feel

790
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,299
that regret not self-loathing is too

791
00:30:58,799 --> 00:31:02,340
strong a word but like oh God I should

792
00:31:00,299 --> 00:31:04,440
like why am I not enjoying this yeah

793
00:31:02,340 --> 00:31:06,059
like I need this is a fun thing and why

794
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,919
am I now not enjoying it and not being

795
00:31:06,059 --> 00:31:09,779
able to answer that question is the

796
00:31:07,919 --> 00:31:11,700
problem first I think that's where the

797
00:31:09,779 --> 00:31:13,559
where the two cross I think especially

798
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:15,840
when you get the anxiety of or I'm at

799
00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:17,940
the table with five to six other people

800
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,159
or even more or less

801
00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:22,620
I don't want to do this you know that is

802
00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:24,179
where yes there's a lot of crossover

803
00:31:22,620 --> 00:31:27,059
yeah

804
00:31:24,179 --> 00:31:29,940
you know you'll still take with DM

805
00:31:27,059 --> 00:31:32,760
burnout especially when you're

806
00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:34,980
you're finding that lack of Interest or

807
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:38,100
lack of desire to do something that you

808
00:31:34,980 --> 00:31:38,820
used to find really fun and there's so

809
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:42,659
much

810
00:31:38,820 --> 00:31:44,659
additional outside factors that carry

811
00:31:42,659 --> 00:31:48,179
into DM burnout or burnout in general

812
00:31:44,659 --> 00:31:50,880
and you know our personal lives do come

813
00:31:48,179 --> 00:31:53,640
into that a lot so if you've had a bad

814
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,320
day at work or you've had a bad day just

815
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,520
in general or you're going through a

816
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,380
tough time

817
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,320
that's where the similarities and the

818
00:31:58,380 --> 00:32:03,779
lines cross because if you're getting

819
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,000
dis disinterested and stuff

820
00:32:03,779 --> 00:32:09,480
like everyday life that you normally

821
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,880
find enjoyable then you're gonna find

822
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,860
you're not going to want to DM because

823
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,480
you found that used to be something you

824
00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:18,179
enjoyed

825
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,700
you're not gonna you're not gonna get

826
00:32:18,179 --> 00:32:24,120
the same thing that you once had and I

827
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:26,580
say like my thing mainly from burnout is

828
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,039
my I find I can't find my lack of

829
00:32:26,580 --> 00:32:31,559
creativity anymore I find like I've done

830
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:35,880
it too long like I don't have anything

831
00:32:31,559 --> 00:32:38,220
more I can give as a DM but yeah to say

832
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,860
that like I want to make my players

833
00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:42,539
happy and I want to see them smile like

834
00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:44,880
and

835
00:32:42,539 --> 00:32:46,380
I can flick back through memories in my

836
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,779
head of when

837
00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:51,659
I've had players at the edge of the

838
00:32:48,779 --> 00:32:53,399
table of hands like scraping in the

839
00:32:51,659 --> 00:32:54,899
table going what's next what's next and

840
00:32:53,399 --> 00:32:56,940
I've closed the book and said

841
00:32:54,899 --> 00:32:59,220
it's right it's almost 11 o'clock

842
00:32:56,940 --> 00:33:03,779
session's over you'll find out next week

843
00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:07,380
and I want to relive that but I find as

844
00:33:03,779 --> 00:33:09,480
we've gotten older and as my table as my

845
00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:11,460
players and friend group ultimately has

846
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,140
shrunk between the relationship between

847
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:17,700
my friends and different players and

848
00:33:13,140 --> 00:33:18,419
life outside DM burnout affects all of

849
00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:20,279
that

850
00:33:18,419 --> 00:33:23,700
and especially when you're playing with

851
00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:26,460
such a close-knit group of friends that

852
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:28,919
all enjoy D and when you have players

853
00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:31,980
that don't get on

854
00:33:28,919 --> 00:33:34,140
it affects you as the DM because you're

855
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:35,820
like because you're saying right I can't

856
00:33:34,140 --> 00:33:38,220
have these two players in the same room

857
00:33:35,820 --> 00:33:40,440
because everybody feels that tension

858
00:33:38,220 --> 00:33:43,380
like I was going back to earlier

859
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,779
and as DM you're like if these two

860
00:33:43,380 --> 00:33:47,640
individuals in real life are not going

861
00:33:45,779 --> 00:33:49,799
to talk to each other

862
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,440
now I'm gonna force them to have their

863
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:54,899
characters do it yeah and it's like

864
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,059
that's that's effectively what I'm doing

865
00:33:54,899 --> 00:33:59,940
because you can't re because when does

866
00:33:57,059 --> 00:34:01,380
the disassociation between is a game and

867
00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:03,419
real life stop

868
00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:05,600
mm-hmm and it's like another

869
00:34:03,419 --> 00:34:08,639
responsibility

870
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,619
is to walk the line of where does

871
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:12,899
reality I say reality yeah it is

872
00:34:10,619 --> 00:34:14,520
effective where does reality stop and

873
00:34:12,899 --> 00:34:17,580
where does the game

874
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:19,500
begin or end like and if I've got two

875
00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:22,139
people at the table that don't that

876
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:23,879
don't like each other for XYZ reason

877
00:34:22,139 --> 00:34:25,560
but their characters are best friends or

878
00:34:23,879 --> 00:34:28,200
their characters get along

879
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,700
yeah I can't have them sat talking to

880
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,200
one of each other like they're best

881
00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:33,119
friends because

882
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,969
they're actively despise each other in

883
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:38,479
real life

884
00:34:33,969 --> 00:34:38,479
[Music]

885
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:47,760
[Music]

886
00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:49,440
one uh one funny anecdote on that that I

887
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,000
want to bring in uh about that that

888
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,159
blurring of lines between the reality

889
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,080
and the fantasy is we we just recorded

890
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:56,580
uh dungeon stars and dudes episode on

891
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,940
the Sunday just it's very nice we're

892
00:34:56,580 --> 00:35:02,099
talking now and um one of the players

893
00:34:59,940 --> 00:35:04,920
backstories is

894
00:35:02,099 --> 00:35:06,359
a page and a half and is he has just

895
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,200
gone all in

896
00:35:06,359 --> 00:35:12,180
like it's convoluted right it is I don't

897
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,339
wanna I'm not gonna no spoilers please

898
00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:16,020
because I wanna I wanna watch that when

899
00:35:14,339 --> 00:35:18,599
it comes up I'm gonna listen to that

900
00:35:16,020 --> 00:35:20,339
there's no heirs or Graces it is it is

901
00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:22,140
convoluted I think he lost himself

902
00:35:20,339 --> 00:35:24,060
halfway through writing it to be honest

903
00:35:22,140 --> 00:35:27,180
and I think he'll admit that as well the

904
00:35:24,060 --> 00:35:29,700
rest of ours are interesting but concise

905
00:35:27,180 --> 00:35:31,440
I think it's fair to say and in game

906
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:33,960
there are events tying into his

907
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:36,240
backstory and our characters in game are

908
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,800
like okay so who are these people again

909
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:40,380
and why are they hunting you and what's

910
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,180
happening here and so what do you want

911
00:35:40,380 --> 00:35:43,859
to get out of this and they're trying to

912
00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:45,420
understand it is oh I haven't told you

913
00:35:43,859 --> 00:35:47,099
everything and maybe there's more to

914
00:35:45,420 --> 00:35:49,200
learn and this that and the other we

915
00:35:47,099 --> 00:35:50,760
went to a break 15 minute break in the

916
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,000
in the Stream and in the episode and I

917
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,859
was like right so what is hap like I

918
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,839
don't understand I can't play the game

919
00:35:55,859 --> 00:36:00,300
anymore because I am totally [ __ ]

920
00:35:57,839 --> 00:36:02,160
lost dude you gotta help me out here who

921
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:04,800
are the are they bad guys are they good

922
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,500
guys because I don't know

923
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,599
and that like both you know art imitates

924
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:11,400
life my character is completely confused

925
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:13,680
because I was completely confused but it

926
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,420
made sense and that was nice it was the

927
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,400
light the parallel lines met and

928
00:36:15,420 --> 00:36:20,099
converged through a beautiful moment of

929
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,020
like what is happening because I don't

930
00:36:20,099 --> 00:36:23,640
know

931
00:36:21,020 --> 00:36:27,359
that's that's also such a good role play

932
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:29,820
there like as a fan of the show and you

933
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:31,920
know that's such a good like I'm

934
00:36:29,820 --> 00:36:33,260
confused in real life I'm also confused

935
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,880
in game

936
00:36:33,260 --> 00:36:37,619
yeah I thought you got you got to help

937
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,300
me out let me give me some bits and when

938
00:36:37,619 --> 00:36:40,560
we go back I can assume we've talked

939
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:42,720
about this in character at some point

940
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,400
but then I know I can make decisions a

941
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:46,859
bit better than just

942
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,000
got I don't know anymore I got to the

943
00:36:46,859 --> 00:36:49,260
point where we were just like you make

944
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,619
all the decisions because none of us

945
00:36:49,260 --> 00:36:54,119
really know which way to go just tell us

946
00:36:52,619 --> 00:36:55,619
who we're fighting that's it just tell

947
00:36:54,119 --> 00:36:58,020
us who we're fighting

948
00:36:55,619 --> 00:36:59,160
yes uh and we went round the houses of

949
00:36:58,020 --> 00:37:01,260
where we're going to go and what the

950
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,480
next steps were Bish bash Bosh but uh it

951
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:04,980
got resolved in the end but um one of

952
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,940
the things that I I thought of a little

953
00:37:04,980 --> 00:37:08,339
while ago when we were talking about

954
00:37:05,940 --> 00:37:10,619
there's this irony there in that player

955
00:37:08,339 --> 00:37:13,020
and DM divide of their there are there

956
00:37:10,619 --> 00:37:15,060
are players that exist out there that do

957
00:37:13,020 --> 00:37:17,099
for lack of a better term take the DM

958
00:37:15,060 --> 00:37:19,380
position for granted I've certainly

959
00:37:17,099 --> 00:37:21,660
played them in the past thankfully not

960
00:37:19,380 --> 00:37:23,520
in my current games full disclaimer but

961
00:37:21,660 --> 00:37:26,099
they they definitely exist out there and

962
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,839
the irony is is that if like you said if

963
00:37:26,099 --> 00:37:29,220
they were to be asked to step up and DM

964
00:37:27,839 --> 00:37:30,660
they wouldn't want to because they'd be

965
00:37:29,220 --> 00:37:32,040
scared about what it entails yeah

966
00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:34,619
there's like a level of cognitive

967
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:37,680
dissonance there to be like so you you

968
00:37:34,619 --> 00:37:39,119
do know what's going on here and that's

969
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,980
why you don't want to do it I I've

970
00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:43,079
always said I see and I have said this

971
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:45,000
to all of my players dming isn't hard

972
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:48,180
but I've been doing it for 10 years

973
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:51,839
they've never done it and it's like

974
00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:53,940
damning isn't hard as long as you

975
00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:57,359
believe in the story that you have

976
00:37:53,940 --> 00:38:00,180
created or that you're following you

977
00:37:57,359 --> 00:38:03,420
I say you plan but you don't I often

978
00:38:00,180 --> 00:38:07,140
find plans go out the window and so I

979
00:38:03,420 --> 00:38:09,839
rarely I I structure a campaign in which

980
00:38:07,140 --> 00:38:12,240
that I have all my encounters planned I

981
00:38:09,839 --> 00:38:15,119
have an overall Arc of where the players

982
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:17,520
start where they need to end up and what

983
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:21,119
happens in between is up to them

984
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:23,220
which is I think all d d Adventures as

985
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:26,220
as a whole ultimately

986
00:38:23,220 --> 00:38:29,099
and I think players

987
00:38:26,220 --> 00:38:30,599
that are forever players are just a

988
00:38:29,099 --> 00:38:33,359
little bit anxious in themselves that

989
00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:34,800
they don't want to have they don't want

990
00:38:33,359 --> 00:38:36,540
that they want to experience everything

991
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,760
and they want to do everything as a

992
00:38:36,540 --> 00:38:41,940
player which is great the feeling as a

993
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,380
DM is so in my opinion so much more

994
00:38:41,940 --> 00:38:45,720
because you're watching everything

995
00:38:43,380 --> 00:38:47,940
happen it's like you're yeah you're

996
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:49,859
watching a TV series or you're watching

997
00:38:47,940 --> 00:38:51,300
some a film because you're watching

998
00:38:49,859 --> 00:38:53,099
these characters engage or you're

999
00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:55,140
watching these characters fight a dragon

1000
00:38:53,099 --> 00:38:57,000
and

1001
00:38:55,140 --> 00:38:58,859
if you've got an imagination like mine

1002
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,599
you can actually see it happening as

1003
00:38:58,859 --> 00:39:03,000
their characters how they've describe

1004
00:39:00,599 --> 00:39:05,099
themselves and what they what they're

1005
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,720
going on if you've got like the 3D if

1006
00:39:05,099 --> 00:39:09,240
you've got 3D printed Miniatures or

1007
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:10,619
you've got the 3D scenery that's just a

1008
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:13,380
little bit of fun for the players in my

1009
00:39:10,619 --> 00:39:15,660
opinion because I love all the scenery

1010
00:39:13,380 --> 00:39:18,300
and things you get for d d and other

1011
00:39:15,660 --> 00:39:20,160
sort of RPGs which helps with the

1012
00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:23,040
players that they're imagining it so if

1013
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,760
you've you're like a halfling barbarian

1014
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,839
Rich to Rich

1015
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,240
absolutely ripped to shreds and you've

1016
00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:32,400
got a big great a halfling size great ax

1017
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:35,040
you know and if it helps with you

1018
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,839
getting that mini on and it helps you

1019
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,280
imagine what's going on that's brilliant

1020
00:39:36,839 --> 00:39:40,619
but you know

1021
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,720
it all goes back to the fact that

1022
00:39:40,619 --> 00:39:46,140
your responsibility as a player is so

1023
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:48,599
much less and I don't I and take like

1024
00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:50,700
you said players take that for granted

1025
00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:51,960
I think a lot of players if they think

1026
00:39:50,700 --> 00:39:53,579
about it they actually sit down and have

1027
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,099
a conversation with themselves and go do

1028
00:39:53,579 --> 00:39:58,680
you know what I don't actually realize

1029
00:39:56,099 --> 00:40:01,260
what goes into DND or what goes into

1030
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,420
this session or what the DM has planned

1031
00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:05,400
for this session

1032
00:40:03,420 --> 00:40:08,520
I think players will be a little bit

1033
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,560
shocked into what some DMS actually do

1034
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,320
you know it could be the small things of

1035
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:16,020
so I I love tea staining so what I used

1036
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,640
to do is I have tea stain documents and

1037
00:40:16,020 --> 00:40:20,160
hand them into that and that's a small

1038
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,839
thing but you know once you've written

1039
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,599
out or you've typed out this huge

1040
00:40:21,839 --> 00:40:26,760
lettering character or NPC character and

1041
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:28,920
you've handed it to the player or you've

1042
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:32,400
bought all the additional supplies to

1043
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,260
like wax seals and everything to make

1044
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,940
the players feel more engaged or to make

1045
00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:38,820
sure your players feel that this world

1046
00:40:35,940 --> 00:40:40,140
is real or this world has something to

1047
00:40:38,820 --> 00:40:42,839
offer

1048
00:40:40,140 --> 00:40:44,400
and I think players some players

1049
00:40:42,839 --> 00:40:47,700
especially don't

1050
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:50,099
see that or they don't realize that DM's

1051
00:40:47,700 --> 00:40:52,740
put a lot of effort into their games and

1052
00:40:50,099 --> 00:40:54,420
certainly yeah and I have I have been

1053
00:40:52,740 --> 00:40:56,820
that person to t-state I've been the

1054
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:59,280
person to wax seal I've been the person

1055
00:40:56,820 --> 00:41:01,800
yeah yeah I've been the person to

1056
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,780
not so much these days but especially

1057
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,520
back in the sort of highlight of my DM

1058
00:41:03,780 --> 00:41:07,380
career I've been the person to buy all

1059
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,839
the minis to buy all the scenery to buy

1060
00:41:07,380 --> 00:41:11,880
everything and

1061
00:41:09,839 --> 00:41:15,420
tiny violins again

1062
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,740
um you know and that was all for me like

1063
00:41:15,420 --> 00:41:18,540
I wasn't doing it for my place I was

1064
00:41:16,740 --> 00:41:20,040
doing that for me because I enjoyed it

1065
00:41:18,540 --> 00:41:22,200
and

1066
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,839
my players as much as they enjoyed it as

1067
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:27,119
well they didn't take on this they

1068
00:41:24,839 --> 00:41:29,160
didn't take on the fact that a all of

1069
00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:30,599
this is my time and effort that I'm

1070
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,619
putting in to make sure you guys have

1071
00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:33,359
fun

1072
00:41:31,619 --> 00:41:35,339
and

1073
00:41:33,359 --> 00:41:37,320
I wasn't realizing as I was halfway

1074
00:41:35,339 --> 00:41:39,240
through doing stuff I wasn't enjoying it

1075
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,800
I was like why am I doing this you know

1076
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:42,359
it's a piece of paper they're just gonna

1077
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,760
bin it or it's going to end up in the

1078
00:41:42,359 --> 00:41:47,940
back of the DND box yeah what does this

1079
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:50,220
mean nothing not important

1080
00:41:47,940 --> 00:41:51,839
it was like I've put time and effort

1081
00:41:50,220 --> 00:41:52,680
into that and they didn't seem to Value

1082
00:41:51,839 --> 00:41:54,060
it

1083
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,680
now

1084
00:41:54,060 --> 00:41:57,720
I might have taken that completely out

1085
00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:00,000
of context they might have loved it and

1086
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:01,800
gone oh this has been a highlight of my

1087
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,660
thing so I think another thing you'd

1088
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,339
burn out and what DMS need to realize as

1089
00:42:03,660 --> 00:42:07,380
well is that

1090
00:42:05,339 --> 00:42:10,440
never take your players for granted as

1091
00:42:07,380 --> 00:42:12,599
well DMS you know yeah okay you may be

1092
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,780
suffering from burnout like say the pair

1093
00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:18,839
of us are but your players do value you

1094
00:42:15,780 --> 00:42:21,180
and they do value a lot of the stuff you

1095
00:42:18,839 --> 00:42:22,740
do and it's just like I said about

1096
00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:24,780
players having a sit down conversation

1097
00:42:22,740 --> 00:42:26,280
with themselves DMS you need to have a

1098
00:42:24,780 --> 00:42:28,260
sit-down conversation with yourselves

1099
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,839
and realize that

1100
00:42:28,260 --> 00:42:32,579
this adventure you've made is brilliant

1101
00:42:30,839 --> 00:42:36,079
your players bring this adventure to

1102
00:42:32,579 --> 00:42:39,540
life indeed your players are

1103
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:42,119
engaging on reacting and re and engaging

1104
00:42:39,540 --> 00:42:44,220
with your world this is something you've

1105
00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:47,160
made so your players can enjoy and love

1106
00:42:44,220 --> 00:42:48,480
and do whatever they want in it yeah and

1107
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,359
that that's one that's one of the

1108
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:54,420
reasons why I love the hobby as a whole

1109
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:56,760
and uh why I extol this virtues

1110
00:42:54,420 --> 00:42:58,560
especially in a younger setting I've had

1111
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,000
episodes on education all that kind of

1112
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,400
stuff where it is

1113
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:05,040
it does help because it teaches

1114
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:08,579
everybody even me in my adult life you

1115
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:10,500
still learn that like everybody is it

1116
00:43:08,579 --> 00:43:11,819
sounds so reductive everybody is

1117
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:14,339
different of course everybody is

1118
00:43:11,819 --> 00:43:16,740
different but but the way they show that

1119
00:43:14,339 --> 00:43:19,560
appreciation to some you know to one

1120
00:43:16,740 --> 00:43:21,780
person them going oh cool it's like wow

1121
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,460
their top level of appreciation they

1122
00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:25,260
never say that to anything but to you

1123
00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:26,760
it's like oh wow they were so dismissive

1124
00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:28,380
yeah but that's that's you know that's

1125
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,740
why it's so important you know even as

1126
00:43:28,380 --> 00:43:33,420
an adult person I still learn that as I

1127
00:43:31,740 --> 00:43:35,400
said that guy that was up a mountain one

1128
00:43:33,420 --> 00:43:37,500
time he's you know his appreciation is

1129
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,819
showing up and he's he now wants to

1130
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:41,640
build his own subclass and has asked me

1131
00:43:38,819 --> 00:43:43,319
for help in designing a subclass based

1132
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:46,200
around his his character and what he

1133
00:43:43,319 --> 00:43:48,720
wants to do and I'm like okay I'll try

1134
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,099
yeah and that that's you know they they

1135
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,020
show their appreciation in different

1136
00:43:50,099 --> 00:43:54,540
ways because everybody is different and

1137
00:43:52,020 --> 00:43:56,700
that's why like you know I my heart

1138
00:43:54,540 --> 00:43:57,780
feels when I see school kids you know at

1139
00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:59,099
their after school clubs or whatever

1140
00:43:57,780 --> 00:44:01,500
playing it because I'm like oh they're

1141
00:43:59,099 --> 00:44:03,780
learning like incredible skills that are

1142
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:05,819
just gonna just pay dividends the rest

1143
00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:07,859
of their life because I'm still learning

1144
00:44:05,819 --> 00:44:09,119
those skills now and I'm finding it

1145
00:44:07,859 --> 00:44:11,700
useful

1146
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:12,960
um one thing I'll say is like I said at

1147
00:44:11,700 --> 00:44:15,839
the beginning I love Dungeons and

1148
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,800
Dragons I love DND and nothing will take

1149
00:44:15,839 --> 00:44:18,420
that away

1150
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,220
while we're doing burnout while we're

1151
00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:21,359
doing an episode covering burnout is

1152
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:24,359
that

1153
00:44:21,359 --> 00:44:25,980
burnout it affects all of us especially

1154
00:44:24,359 --> 00:44:29,099
DMS it affects all of us in different

1155
00:44:25,980 --> 00:44:31,500
ways and it affects us in different

1156
00:44:29,099 --> 00:44:33,599
times and time periods like you you said

1157
00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:35,400
you were like a rubber band or a spring

1158
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:37,200
I think it was you know you have

1159
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,940
sessions where you're fully engaged and

1160
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,920
you know it was amazing and then you'd

1161
00:44:38,940 --> 00:44:44,099
go periods where it was like

1162
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:46,500
um yeah not so much and like I said it

1163
00:44:44,099 --> 00:44:49,440
was similar in my case where I now have

1164
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:51,900
like a block of creativity where I don't

1165
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,400
feel like I can give anything you know

1166
00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:54,900
it could be different for another DM

1167
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,540
they could just feel like they've lost

1168
00:44:54,900 --> 00:45:00,240
interest in because they're either doing

1169
00:44:57,540 --> 00:45:01,680
it so long or some of their players are

1170
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:03,300
doing whatever and they're just not

1171
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,880
finding interest in the game anymore

1172
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,560
what we've ultimately got to realize is

1173
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,540
that even though Dungeons and Dragons

1174
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,300
has so much to offer like you said

1175
00:45:09,540 --> 00:45:15,060
education is so much short for kids so

1176
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:16,740
much to offer one thing I found and this

1177
00:45:15,060 --> 00:45:19,079
is some further reading for some of your

1178
00:45:16,740 --> 00:45:21,480
listeners is that d d

1179
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:24,960
can be played in prisons to help

1180
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:26,280
rehabilitate prisoners and so um there

1181
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,140
was

1182
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,420
I'll find a study for you and I'll send

1183
00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:32,400
it to you uh so

1184
00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:34,980
some prisoners in America were playing

1185
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,660
Dungeons and Dragons are totally off

1186
00:45:34,980 --> 00:45:38,460
track I know but just for a side night

1187
00:45:36,660 --> 00:45:40,140
I'll be quick but you know they're

1188
00:45:38,460 --> 00:45:42,260
playing Dungeons and Dragons in prison

1189
00:45:40,140 --> 00:45:44,940
and it ca and the prisoners playing it

1190
00:45:42,260 --> 00:45:47,339
realized that and they came to terms of

1191
00:45:44,940 --> 00:45:49,140
crimes they had committed through the

1192
00:45:47,339 --> 00:45:51,480
role play and through what the DM was

1193
00:45:49,140 --> 00:45:54,180
doing the DM was just another prisoner

1194
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:56,160
trying to have fun you know and what he

1195
00:45:54,180 --> 00:45:58,619
was doing is he was helping people

1196
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:01,319
realize the error of their ways and you

1197
00:45:58,619 --> 00:46:03,119
know he was helping people overcome I'm

1198
00:46:01,319 --> 00:46:04,319
not these are people of like committed

1199
00:46:03,119 --> 00:46:06,900
murder and they've done all sorts of

1200
00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:08,940
horrible crimes but they have come to

1201
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:11,760
terms with the fact that oh my god I've

1202
00:46:08,940 --> 00:46:13,680
done this you know and yeah and it can

1203
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,359
be a way to rehabilitate

1204
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,000
oh that sounds

1205
00:46:15,359 --> 00:46:21,240
something you know 20 30 years ago

1206
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,460
during the satanic Panic you know I

1207
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:25,140
think people like summoning Devils you

1208
00:46:23,460 --> 00:46:28,800
know 20 30 years later it's being used

1209
00:46:25,140 --> 00:46:32,040
to rehabilitate prisoners so you know it

1210
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:34,560
is a magical game and it's can teach so

1211
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,119
much and it can give so much but it can

1212
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,180
only give

1213
00:46:36,119 --> 00:46:40,140
what the DM and the players have to

1214
00:46:39,180 --> 00:46:42,359
offer

1215
00:46:40,140 --> 00:46:44,280
yes the whole is greater than some of

1216
00:46:42,359 --> 00:46:46,440
its parts in in this for sure yeah

1217
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,839
before before I ask you for your silver

1218
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,220
bullet uh we and we touched on it

1219
00:46:48,839 --> 00:46:51,839
earlier on but I wanted to go into a bit

1220
00:46:50,220 --> 00:46:55,200
more detail is

1221
00:46:51,839 --> 00:46:58,500
I think the one reason that I keep going

1222
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:01,200
with my 90 plus I think 97th session

1223
00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:03,000
next week for my Homebrew campaign of

1224
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:06,180
like five six years

1225
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,880
is because I have two very very solid

1226
00:47:06,180 --> 00:47:11,579
games that I'm a player in with very

1227
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,900
very good groups and I think if I didn't

1228
00:47:11,579 --> 00:47:15,720
have that

1229
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:19,619
I'm certain my campaign wouldn't have

1230
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:22,260
lasted yeah and it's it's such a it's a

1231
00:47:19,619 --> 00:47:24,000
such a weird release like until I sit

1232
00:47:22,260 --> 00:47:25,440
down and think about it it never really

1233
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,300
occurred to me but it is such a weird

1234
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,160
release to be like and I've said I've

1235
00:47:27,300 --> 00:47:30,780
been full disclosure with both DMS I've

1236
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,160
said look this is my turn your brain off

1237
00:47:30,780 --> 00:47:34,260
evening

1238
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,700
like I I'm coming just to just to be a

1239
00:47:34,260 --> 00:47:38,819
player like I hope with rules and stuff

1240
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:42,000
and I can't help it sometimes but um

1241
00:47:38,819 --> 00:47:44,280
like I'm fully like invested your game

1242
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,599
is your game make any cooling you want I

1243
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,760
don't care it's not like it's my night

1244
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:49,619
off from worrying about calling making

1245
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:52,740
you know jurisdictions and all that kind

1246
00:47:49,619 --> 00:47:55,440
of stuff and that is such a great

1247
00:47:52,740 --> 00:47:58,260
release to just be like yeah right I am

1248
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,839
just one dude who is very can be very

1249
00:47:58,260 --> 00:48:02,400
two-dimensional but there are any RPG

1250
00:48:00,839 --> 00:48:05,220
characters so I'm not expecting bloody

1251
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,960
Romeo and Juliet so that's fine

1252
00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:09,119
he's after his thing

1253
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,680
he acts like another bath time beautiful

1254
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:12,180
that's what I like

1255
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,160
we're having a laugh for the next five

1256
00:48:12,180 --> 00:48:15,900
hours and then that's it I'm done and I

1257
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,099
don't have to be like oh god what have I

1258
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:18,839
got myself into and what's happening

1259
00:48:17,099 --> 00:48:21,480
next week and this that and the other so

1260
00:48:18,839 --> 00:48:23,099
for me My Silver Bullet is

1261
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,780
pretty much a silver bullet for most

1262
00:48:23,099 --> 00:48:27,960
people as far as I understand in find

1263
00:48:24,780 --> 00:48:29,900
two other really good games yeah and

1264
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:33,180
then you'll be fine

1265
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:35,339
I realize like how much like gold dust

1266
00:48:33,180 --> 00:48:37,740
they are and how rare that is uh or can

1267
00:48:35,339 --> 00:48:41,460
be for some people I've just been very

1268
00:48:37,740 --> 00:48:44,040
very fortunate in uh having found myself

1269
00:48:41,460 --> 00:48:47,760
surrounded by very talented and uh

1270
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:49,619
patient people sometimes but but for

1271
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,300
yourself then what's your you know when

1272
00:48:49,619 --> 00:48:53,880
you found yourselves in this these

1273
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:57,000
creative ruts when you've gone you tried

1274
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,800
to put pen to paper and nothing your

1275
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,560
hand doesn't want to move

1276
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:05,460
what have you found then to at least

1277
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:07,619
ease that Maya the best thing that I

1278
00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:11,280
found is

1279
00:49:07,619 --> 00:49:14,700
very similar to you in fact so I I'm a

1280
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:16,980
big fan of jrpgs and I'm a big fan of

1281
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:19,260
like we mentioned you know taking you

1282
00:49:16,980 --> 00:49:22,140
under the wing of Warhammer you know and

1283
00:49:19,260 --> 00:49:25,500
I have found since getting back into a

1284
00:49:22,140 --> 00:49:30,420
different hobby I have been able to

1285
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:33,540
DM more effectively and I feel that when

1286
00:49:30,420 --> 00:49:35,819
I do DM which is real rare now my

1287
00:49:33,540 --> 00:49:37,859
sessions of sort of few and far between

1288
00:49:35,819 --> 00:49:40,740
but when I do DM I can get through them

1289
00:49:37,859 --> 00:49:43,020
and I'm like my players can have fun and

1290
00:49:40,740 --> 00:49:44,700
I can see you know when I'm at the DM

1291
00:49:43,020 --> 00:49:46,260
screen or I'm at the DM screen my

1292
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:48,420
players do have fun

1293
00:49:46,260 --> 00:49:50,220
and it's like do you know what

1294
00:49:48,420 --> 00:49:53,760
if I can keep doing what I'm doing

1295
00:49:50,220 --> 00:49:57,240
taking the breaks you know it might be

1296
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:59,880
six weeks it might be only a week and

1297
00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:02,460
getting people together again to have

1298
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:04,680
that shared experience of Dungeons and

1299
00:50:02,460 --> 00:50:07,859
Dragons and having a good time

1300
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,540
makes me want to carry on dming it's

1301
00:50:07,859 --> 00:50:14,819
hard because all I want to do is be a

1302
00:50:09,540 --> 00:50:16,980
player but you know I very much will be

1303
00:50:14,819 --> 00:50:18,420
a DM for these players as long as they

1304
00:50:16,980 --> 00:50:20,280
keep coming back as long as they keep

1305
00:50:18,420 --> 00:50:22,079
saying Harry please do it come on let's

1306
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,480
do it and they

1307
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:26,520
appreciate the time that I give

1308
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,380
which I think they they all do and they

1309
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,119
all have said they do but they

1310
00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:33,119
appreciate the breaks that I need to

1311
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:34,980
take to to make sure they have fun

1312
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:37,020
because at the end of the day we're all

1313
00:50:34,980 --> 00:50:39,180
coming around the table to like from

1314
00:50:37,020 --> 00:50:42,000
three to five hours

1315
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:44,339
in a shared experience and if we're not

1316
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,740
all having fun something's gone wrong

1317
00:50:44,339 --> 00:50:49,079
and as DM going back to your

1318
00:50:46,740 --> 00:50:52,500
responsibilities is to make sure that

1319
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:57,359
you and your players are having fun

1320
00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:59,700
and that's my Silver Bullet yeah I think

1321
00:50:57,359 --> 00:51:01,559
I I find it hard to empathize sometimes

1322
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:03,900
with some games and some guests I've had

1323
00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:05,700
on admittedly because

1324
00:51:03,900 --> 00:51:09,000
the nature that they

1325
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:11,700
play is that either pick up groups or

1326
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:14,339
their remote and I I find that very hard

1327
00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:17,400
to to jive with as all of my games are

1328
00:51:14,339 --> 00:51:19,559
with people I know or now now know very

1329
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,720
well or didn't when we started perhaps

1330
00:51:19,559 --> 00:51:25,200
like one of the guys in in the dungeon

1331
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:27,480
Dyson dudes campaign I'm going to a

1332
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,460
stack in like eight weeks and I never

1333
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:32,040
met him before we started playing d d so

1334
00:51:29,460 --> 00:51:34,520
I was gonna say one of my players is my

1335
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:37,680
best man or will be my best

1336
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,480
and I knew him before we played D but we

1337
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:42,599
had such a shared experience or shared

1338
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:45,240
interest in a lot of things that the and

1339
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:47,520
d d just grew as close it was one of the

1340
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:49,859
things that Drew closer together but it

1341
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:52,079
was one of the main things that

1342
00:51:49,859 --> 00:51:53,640
we would always say on the way home from

1343
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:55,859
work or the way home from doing this

1344
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,119
we'd be like oh yeah what's happening

1345
00:51:55,859 --> 00:51:59,819
this session what's happening this week

1346
00:51:57,119 --> 00:52:01,260
and I've got a blabber mouth so whenever

1347
00:51:59,819 --> 00:52:03,059
I was planning something and I was super

1348
00:52:01,260 --> 00:52:04,800
excited he'd be the first person I told

1349
00:52:03,059 --> 00:52:07,099
and he was like why did you tell me

1350
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,660
you've ruined it

1351
00:52:07,099 --> 00:52:12,119
that like the curse of the DM curse of

1352
00:52:09,660 --> 00:52:14,099
the DM and I was always excited and

1353
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:16,440
because I we used to live together as

1354
00:52:14,099 --> 00:52:18,660
well so it's like do you know what I

1355
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,700
can't I cannot tell you because I'm just

1356
00:52:18,660 --> 00:52:23,700
so excited I have to tell someone

1357
00:52:20,700 --> 00:52:26,400
but you know having a close-knit friend

1358
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:28,740
group that also share your experience or

1359
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,599
share your interests that happily sit

1360
00:52:28,740 --> 00:52:31,740
around the table with you to play one

1361
00:52:30,599 --> 00:52:34,020
game

1362
00:52:31,740 --> 00:52:36,599
is is a magical experience and I think

1363
00:52:34,020 --> 00:52:38,700
you know which is why I am suffering

1364
00:52:36,599 --> 00:52:41,579
from DM burnout but what keeps me going

1365
00:52:38,700 --> 00:52:43,680
and what keeps me wanting played onto

1366
00:52:41,579 --> 00:52:45,420
the dragons is so I can share an

1367
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,619
experience with my close friends around

1368
00:52:45,420 --> 00:52:47,760
the table

1369
00:52:46,619 --> 00:52:49,859
and

1370
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,599
you know we're all adults now and our

1371
00:52:49,859 --> 00:52:53,940
schedules are all over the place

1372
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:55,920
especially mine I never know when I'm

1373
00:52:53,940 --> 00:52:57,900
going to be working next I work 12-hour

1374
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,460
shifts some of them work nine to five

1375
00:52:57,900 --> 00:53:01,740
and have the weekends off I don't have

1376
00:52:59,460 --> 00:53:03,900
the weekends off you know so it's about

1377
00:53:01,740 --> 00:53:06,240
getting people together and when we do

1378
00:53:03,900 --> 00:53:08,160
get them together as a DM I want to make

1379
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:09,780
sure they're having fun I want to make

1380
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,819
sure I'm having fun because I'm putting

1381
00:53:09,780 --> 00:53:14,300
all the s like that's a lie I'm not

1382
00:53:11,819 --> 00:53:17,099
putting all the effort in I'm putting in

1383
00:53:14,300 --> 00:53:19,859
and I'm putting in the additional effort

1384
00:53:17,099 --> 00:53:24,180
to make sure the campaign yeah right or

1385
00:53:19,859 --> 00:53:25,859
the session runs smoothly yeah I think

1386
00:53:24,180 --> 00:53:27,540
with that in mind what you've just

1387
00:53:25,859 --> 00:53:28,559
touched upon there finally from my point

1388
00:53:27,540 --> 00:53:30,780
of view I think

1389
00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:32,520
in addition to obviously finding some

1390
00:53:30,780 --> 00:53:35,040
like-minded individuals

1391
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,420
that a random pickup group may or may

1392
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,960
not lead to

1393
00:53:36,420 --> 00:53:40,980
scheduling I think has I I was telling a

1394
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,300
couple other friends in the car the

1395
00:53:40,980 --> 00:53:44,520
other night they're asking you know how

1396
00:53:42,300 --> 00:53:47,520
have you kept this game these two games

1397
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,500
going on for so long and honestly I

1398
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,400
think my life rolled an actual 20 in

1399
00:53:49,500 --> 00:53:52,140
that

1400
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,880
my personal campaign that I run was

1401
00:53:52,140 --> 00:53:55,559
every other Tuesday and it's been like

1402
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:58,319
that for six years

1403
00:53:55,559 --> 00:53:59,819
no no deviation day on a Saturday once

1404
00:53:58,319 --> 00:54:02,400
because we're all free and we did it in

1405
00:53:59,819 --> 00:54:04,680
person otherwise every every Tuesday

1406
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:06,900
night yeah yeah that was it was like oh

1407
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:08,700
exotic yeah playing at the weekend how

1408
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:10,920
unusual I've got a that's like the time

1409
00:54:08,700 --> 00:54:13,619
why are my brain the old 12 hour

1410
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:16,619
sessions that's what we need one thing I

1411
00:54:13,619 --> 00:54:18,780
I kind of wish we were able to do still

1412
00:54:16,619 --> 00:54:21,119
is have 12-hour sessions I don't think I

1413
00:54:18,780 --> 00:54:23,579
could be able to do it just sat down for

1414
00:54:21,119 --> 00:54:25,619
12 hours talking but

1415
00:54:23,579 --> 00:54:27,420
that's one thing especially younger like

1416
00:54:25,619 --> 00:54:30,119
if you ever get when you have all the

1417
00:54:27,420 --> 00:54:32,540
time when you're at college and or uni

1418
00:54:30,119 --> 00:54:35,280
or whatever you can do all that but

1419
00:54:32,540 --> 00:54:36,720
scheduling is one thing yeah and that's

1420
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:39,300
that that really helped and then the two

1421
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:41,880
games that I'm a player in as again

1422
00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:44,700
magically conveniently could only do

1423
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,079
like alternating Sundays

1424
00:54:44,700 --> 00:54:48,599
so when they're like oh we can't do

1425
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:50,280
Sundays on the second game I was going

1426
00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:52,260
to be involved in I was like oh God it's

1427
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,540
gonna be the same one that's the other

1428
00:54:52,260 --> 00:54:56,480
game that can only do Sundays nope

1429
00:54:54,540 --> 00:54:59,339
somehow turned out to be the opposite

1430
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,599
lock it in lock it in now because

1431
00:54:59,339 --> 00:55:02,400
there's no way that's ever going to

1432
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:03,839
happen again so it's like every Sunday I

1433
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,400
alternate as being a player and then

1434
00:55:03,839 --> 00:55:07,140
every other Tuesday I'm with DM and

1435
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:10,680
that's been this way now for that for

1436
00:55:07,140 --> 00:55:13,020
those three for like two years uh that

1437
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:15,480
has somehow I don't like to think about

1438
00:55:13,020 --> 00:55:17,579
it just in case it shakes the universe

1439
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,619
too much and it all crumbles down I'm

1440
00:55:17,579 --> 00:55:21,359
just like yeah just keep because I know

1441
00:55:19,619 --> 00:55:23,339
I know how hard it is to schedule I know

1442
00:55:21,359 --> 00:55:25,079
how difficult people find it and people

1443
00:55:23,339 --> 00:55:27,119
ask me I'm like somehow the two games

1444
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:30,059
I'm a player and didn't want to clash

1445
00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:31,500
ever yeah and it's just beautiful how it

1446
00:55:30,059 --> 00:55:33,020
worked out that's what we love that's

1447
00:55:31,500 --> 00:55:35,339
what we like

1448
00:55:33,020 --> 00:55:37,760
one one final thing I wanted to mention

1449
00:55:35,339 --> 00:55:41,220
is obviously we've talked a lot about DM

1450
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:42,480
burnout but perhaps we've alluded to it

1451
00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:44,400
throughout the discussion but I wanted

1452
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,619
to get your thoughts on perhaps maybe is

1453
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,540
is there an equivalent for players and

1454
00:55:46,619 --> 00:55:50,940
maybe that's what we've discussed in

1455
00:55:48,540 --> 00:55:53,099
passing in like oh they've not been that

1456
00:55:50,940 --> 00:55:54,359
enthused this week do you like I've

1457
00:55:53,099 --> 00:55:56,819
never really thought about it this is

1458
00:55:54,359 --> 00:55:59,940
gonna off the cuff but is that a symptom

1459
00:55:56,819 --> 00:56:02,700
of players you know I'd like to think

1460
00:55:59,940 --> 00:56:05,579
that question to a player burnout and if

1461
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:07,440
so like how does that manifest itself

1462
00:56:05,579 --> 00:56:09,660
maybe because the spotlight is all on DM

1463
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:12,240
burnout yeah play is becoming

1464
00:56:09,660 --> 00:56:14,099
disinterested temporarily

1465
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:15,359
is is maybe not talked about that much

1466
00:56:14,099 --> 00:56:18,059
or not thought about that much but

1467
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:20,359
presumably it's just as likely to happen

1468
00:56:18,059 --> 00:56:22,859
and you know caused by very similar

1469
00:56:20,359 --> 00:56:24,780
reasons I suppose yeah definitely I

1470
00:56:22,859 --> 00:56:27,180
could 100 agree with you that like if

1471
00:56:24,780 --> 00:56:28,800
you've got like I would say if you've

1472
00:56:27,180 --> 00:56:31,440
got a campaign not a campaign that runs

1473
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,940
too long but if you've got a scenario

1474
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,460
which is running too long like you've

1475
00:56:32,940 --> 00:56:38,160
got two players having a like I said my

1476
00:56:35,460 --> 00:56:41,460
my sessions are never

1477
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:43,380
role play Heavy but if you've got a

1478
00:56:41,460 --> 00:56:45,300
session or a particular characters that

1479
00:56:43,380 --> 00:56:48,000
are having a role play session and it's

1480
00:56:45,300 --> 00:56:49,440
going on and on and on and on I can see

1481
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,599
a lot of players going if and it's

1482
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,339
happening frequently I could see players

1483
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:54,599
becoming disinterested because I don't

1484
00:56:53,339 --> 00:56:57,260
want to know if two players are going to

1485
00:56:54,599 --> 00:57:00,180
you know make out or you know

1486
00:56:57,260 --> 00:57:02,160
you know or their relationship is as

1487
00:57:00,180 --> 00:57:03,480
characters as forming deeper

1488
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,579
relationships I don't want to know that

1489
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:09,059
I'm here to slay dragons and kick ass

1490
00:57:05,579 --> 00:57:10,500
yeah and if you're you as DM or you as a

1491
00:57:09,059 --> 00:57:12,599
player aren't just sort of like hinting

1492
00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:14,700
the DM to say like could you like speed

1493
00:57:12,599 --> 00:57:16,980
it out it's been it's been an hour and

1494
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:20,220
we've got two hours left can you come on

1495
00:57:16,980 --> 00:57:22,020
like I want to fight something now

1496
00:57:20,220 --> 00:57:24,900
I could definitely foresee players

1497
00:57:22,020 --> 00:57:26,400
getting disinterested but that's to to

1498
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:27,900
jump in that's one of the shared

1499
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,640
responsibilities of players as well

1500
00:57:27,900 --> 00:57:31,319
because I often like to push that back

1501
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,119
to the players especially if it's

1502
00:57:31,319 --> 00:57:34,319
two-player characters obviously or even

1503
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:35,880
if it isn't it's it's one player

1504
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:37,980
character in the DM it isn't just the

1505
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,599
DM's responsibility I I feel it's very

1506
00:57:37,980 --> 00:57:41,880
much within the players as wheelhouse to

1507
00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:43,500
be like to have that awareness of like

1508
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,660
okay I'm taking the piss now I've been

1509
00:57:43,500 --> 00:57:48,420
shopping for two hours and like for

1510
00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:50,579
inane mundane items that nobody really

1511
00:57:48,420 --> 00:57:52,680
cares about like let's

1512
00:57:50,579 --> 00:57:53,940
let's spin it up let me go stop and see

1513
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:56,700
where I can get the cheapest healing

1514
00:57:53,940 --> 00:57:59,339
potion yeah so now and now I just use it

1515
00:57:56,700 --> 00:58:01,559
to show my DM because I'm like no I want

1516
00:57:59,339 --> 00:58:04,260
to buy a chair name every chair shop in

1517
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:06,000
the city now like oh no he hasn't

1518
00:58:04,260 --> 00:58:08,460
prepared 50 different shops over that's

1519
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,960
that that's where that in my line in the

1520
00:58:08,460 --> 00:58:11,160
center so no I I just wanted to

1521
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,980
interrupt you there and just say that is

1522
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,300
I I think it's easy to be like the DM

1523
00:58:13,980 --> 00:58:16,619
should always manage manage manage

1524
00:58:15,300 --> 00:58:17,700
management in those cases the player

1525
00:58:16,619 --> 00:58:21,480
should definitely have an awareness and

1526
00:58:17,700 --> 00:58:24,180
be like I know yeah Bob over there wants

1527
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,559
to smash the skull of a dragon in

1528
00:58:24,180 --> 00:58:28,380
because he hasn't done it in the last

1529
00:58:25,559 --> 00:58:29,760
four sessions that's that's kind of you

1530
00:58:28,380 --> 00:58:31,500
you can still wrap it up within the

1531
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:35,280
realm of of the game without it being

1532
00:58:31,500 --> 00:58:37,680
too much of a rug pull but yes that the

1533
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,940
app that yeah absolutely there's there

1534
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,319
is an element there and I've had it with

1535
00:58:38,940 --> 00:58:42,420
like one of my players

1536
00:58:40,319 --> 00:58:44,099
softly softly was like

1537
00:58:42,420 --> 00:58:46,260
let's get to some combat download we

1538
00:58:44,099 --> 00:58:47,760
haven't like I get it I like it I like

1539
00:58:46,260 --> 00:58:49,740
the Whimsy side of it it's fun it's

1540
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,540
funny we have a laugh but

1541
00:58:49,740 --> 00:58:53,040
basically not rolled a dice for like

1542
00:58:51,540 --> 00:58:55,020
three sessions I'm like yeah I got you

1543
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:57,780
don't worry something will happen next

1544
00:58:55,020 --> 00:59:00,720
time and I kind of like those Earnest

1545
00:58:57,780 --> 00:59:02,640
discussions because that's like a

1546
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,980
valuable spoil so I've said to him like

1547
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,960
something will happen next time and he

1548
00:59:04,980 --> 00:59:08,819
that's increases excitement rather than

1549
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,680
diminished it from me spoiling it so

1550
00:59:08,819 --> 00:59:12,839
that that you know that those those

1551
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:16,980
situations can I guess you can help as a

1552
00:59:12,839 --> 00:59:19,260
DM to to mitigate player burnout but um

1553
00:59:16,980 --> 00:59:21,900
again a hard thing for me to empathize

1554
00:59:19,260 --> 00:59:24,900
on having been fortunate that my games

1555
00:59:21,900 --> 00:59:27,119
have they take breaks there's two of

1556
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:28,740
them so I get to play very different

1557
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:31,740
characters so it's kind of stopped me

1558
00:59:28,740 --> 00:59:33,359
from from ever getting bored or

1559
00:59:31,740 --> 00:59:35,520
feeling

1560
00:59:33,359 --> 00:59:38,400
like I don't I don't want to play

1561
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:41,040
anymore thinking back I had this player

1562
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:45,420
right who always wanted to make a new

1563
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:46,859
character and whenever I play an RPG and

1564
00:59:45,420 --> 00:59:48,599
I've got this Trope that my friends

1565
00:59:46,859 --> 00:59:51,059
always say Harry you'll get to level 10

1566
00:59:48,599 --> 00:59:53,819
in say Skyrim and make a new character

1567
00:59:51,059 --> 00:59:56,940
because you're bored of it and he picked

1568
00:59:53,819 --> 01:00:00,240
up on that and so every sort of hot

1569
00:59:56,940 --> 01:00:03,299
level he'd try and die so he could make

1570
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:06,119
a new character or he would go or he

1571
01:00:03,299 --> 01:00:08,880
would go oh I'm sick and tired of being

1572
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:11,460
a wizard I want to be a dwarf or I want

1573
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,839
to be a rogue dwarf now and I'm like oh

1574
01:00:11,460 --> 01:00:14,700
my God now I can see why it's so

1575
01:00:12,839 --> 01:00:17,339
frustrating for you guys when I say I've

1576
01:00:14,700 --> 01:00:18,740
made a character

1577
01:00:17,339 --> 01:00:21,720
yeah

1578
01:00:18,740 --> 01:00:24,059
totally totally get that I I do see

1579
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,460
player burnout being a thing I don't

1580
01:00:24,059 --> 01:00:27,960
I will probably do some further reading

1581
01:00:26,460 --> 01:00:29,040
myself actually on player burnout

1582
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:32,640
because

1583
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:35,339
I don't it if it is a thing which I I

1584
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:37,559
very much assume it is it isn't very

1585
01:00:35,339 --> 01:00:39,780
widely covered or it's very much dusted

1586
01:00:37,559 --> 01:00:42,359
under the carpet so you've given myself

1587
01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:43,920
given me some more of homework so thank

1588
01:00:42,359 --> 01:00:45,680
you thank you excellent yeah thank you

1589
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,299
mission accomplished

1590
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,140
uh well before we wrap up completely is

1591
01:00:48,299 --> 01:00:50,700
there anything you wanted to talk about

1592
01:00:49,140 --> 01:00:53,339
that we might have missed or not gotten

1593
01:00:50,700 --> 01:00:55,920
to yet so the Here and Now know however

1594
01:00:53,339 --> 01:00:58,380
I do want to mention to people you know

1595
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:01,140
in general if you've got GM suffering

1596
01:00:58,380 --> 01:01:02,460
from burnout please please please Google

1597
01:01:01,140 --> 01:01:05,700
is your friend

1598
01:01:02,460 --> 01:01:07,140
just Google some Google I say Google to

1599
01:01:05,700 --> 01:01:09,020
your symptoms never Google your symptoms

1600
01:01:07,140 --> 01:01:12,960
but

1601
01:01:09,020 --> 01:01:15,780
Google ways of coping on how to overcome

1602
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:17,480
DM burnout because there are plenty and

1603
01:01:15,780 --> 01:01:19,859
plenty of resources out there you know

1604
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:22,319
avoid things on social media but you

1605
01:01:19,859 --> 01:01:23,339
know Reddit which is a chat Forum you

1606
01:01:22,319 --> 01:01:25,140
know

1607
01:01:23,339 --> 01:01:28,680
fill your boots there are plenty of DMS

1608
01:01:25,140 --> 01:01:31,440
all over the world that have suffered DM

1609
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:34,380
burnout me being one of them I'll give

1610
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:36,480
you my Twitter Dan so you can put on a

1611
01:01:34,380 --> 01:01:38,400
tag or something oh yeah and if you

1612
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,559
people want to reach out if they ever

1613
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:43,440
want to mention about DM burnout just

1614
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:46,220
hit me up and I'll we'll try and help in

1615
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:48,660
any way I can because as someone who has

1616
01:01:46,220 --> 01:01:52,079
constantly been suffering from DM

1617
01:01:48,660 --> 01:01:53,760
burnout it's it's hot it's hard or I'm

1618
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:55,380
sure if if anyone's looking for a player

1619
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:58,440
I'm sure yeah if anyone's looking for a

1620
01:01:55,380 --> 01:02:00,420
player just just you know give me a

1621
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:02,099
shout I'll drop everything except on

1622
01:02:00,420 --> 01:02:06,780
Wednesday night except for Wednesday

1623
01:02:02,099 --> 01:02:06,780
night that's Warhammer night moved

1624
01:02:08,339 --> 01:02:14,339
awesome well uh the only thing left to

1625
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:16,440
say then is thank you ever so much Harry

1626
01:02:14,339 --> 01:02:18,540
for joining us on today's discussion and

1627
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:20,760
thank you for having me I'm very I can't

1628
01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:22,980
I'm looking forward to um seeing this

1629
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:25,619
released as I'm going for the number one

1630
01:02:22,980 --> 01:02:27,660
fans but I do hope you know this you go

1631
01:02:25,619 --> 01:02:30,059
well there's a some there's some stiff

1632
01:02:27,660 --> 01:02:31,859
competition yeah well

1633
01:02:30,059 --> 01:02:34,500
we'll have to have some Fan event yeah

1634
01:02:31,859 --> 01:02:37,680
and uh you can all buy for my uh

1635
01:02:34,500 --> 01:02:39,900
appraisal my dream has come true has

1636
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:42,000
come true I will get myself a thinking

1637
01:02:39,900 --> 01:02:44,400
critically t-shirt that is that is the

1638
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:46,500
prize like the one I'm done right now

1639
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:49,559
for those watching on the video formats

1640
01:02:46,500 --> 01:02:51,720
yes lovely well again

1641
01:02:49,559 --> 01:02:54,480
thanks Harry thank you to everybody for

1642
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:56,520
listening below uh as usual uh

1643
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:58,799
references and links uh will be in the

1644
01:02:56,520 --> 01:03:00,960
episode description and please reach out

1645
01:02:58,799 --> 01:03:03,599
to yes myself for Harry for any tips or

1646
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:05,940
thoughts or questions you might have

1647
01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:08,280
otherwise thank you all for listening

1648
01:03:05,940 --> 01:03:10,260
and good night good night

1649
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,180
now it's time for the patreon shout outs

1650
01:03:10,260 --> 01:03:14,819
huge thank you to all my patrons

1651
01:03:12,180 --> 01:03:17,220
starting with Josh lewinike and Glenn

1652
01:03:14,819 --> 01:03:18,780
the three fabulous toasts of tabletop

1653
01:03:17,220 --> 01:03:21,359
Journeys who've been on the show several

1654
01:03:18,780 --> 01:03:23,880
times before and who I'll always invite

1655
01:03:21,359 --> 01:03:27,839
back to go check out tabletop Journeys

1656
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:30,900
at ttjourneys.com or at TT Journeys on

1657
01:03:27,839 --> 01:03:33,599
Twitter we also have Joe from the fourth

1658
01:03:30,900 --> 01:03:36,599
leg podcast because all about giving DMS

1659
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:38,280
another leg to stand on again previous

1660
01:03:36,599 --> 01:03:39,420
guests of the show and I'd thoroughly

1661
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,940
encourage you to go and check out their

1662
01:03:39,420 --> 01:03:44,040
great content so you can find them at

1663
01:03:41,940 --> 01:03:45,420
the fourthleg on Twitter

1664
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,220
always have a good friend of the show

1665
01:03:45,420 --> 01:03:49,380
optional rule you can go and find him

1666
01:03:47,220 --> 01:03:52,020
out on optional rule.com or at optional

1667
01:03:49,380 --> 01:03:54,000
Rule full of very insightful and

1668
01:03:52,020 --> 01:03:57,839
educated comments and thoughts and

1669
01:03:54,000 --> 01:04:00,780
threads on the really nitty-gritty of d

1670
01:03:57,839 --> 01:04:03,839
d and good friend of the show and one of

1671
01:04:00,780 --> 01:04:05,940
my table mates Matthew Street go and

1672
01:04:03,839 --> 01:04:09,780
check out his partner's hustle at

1673
01:04:05,940 --> 01:04:12,260
virtualtime hustle.com or at mp street88

1674
01:04:09,780 --> 01:04:12,260
on Twitter

1675
01:04:12,390 --> 01:04:34,570
[Music]