April 2, 2021

Fudging


This episode is (unfortunately?) not about the delicious sugary treat, but instead the DM tool of "fudging dice"; changing the outcome of a roll behind the screen. For this discussion, I'm joined by Bart Wynants, a.k.a @critographer, author, historian, and all-round inspiration machine. Off the back of Bart's extensive, seven-part Twitter thread, we discuss the finer points of this particular incarnation of DM fiat, and how it's a bit of an iceberg of unseen issues. Firstly, it's not limited to just altering the result of a dice roll in secret, and it's pervasiveness can take many forms: dice tables, magic items, difficulty DCs, etc. I go through my personal realisation of how public rolling completely changed the game for the better, with no drawbacks! We come to the conclusion that fudging is less a DM tool, and actually a symptom of a deeper problem - seen as an exceptional occurrence. Through the use of the "five-whys" methodology we can get to the bottom of why the need for fudging has manifested, and fix it at the root, which is easier than you might expect!

  • 02:32 - Transparent rolling: the silver bullet?
  • 09:19 - Improvising/fudging DCs
  • 18:46 - Single points of failure and the 'rule-of-three' cure
  • 26:20 - Finding peace in the absolution of responsibility
  • 32:13 - Fudging dice table results - why bother & how to remain flexible
  • 38:04 - Tier 1 life support - a failing of the framework?
  • 43:48 - Miscellaneous fudge
  • 53:26 - The Five Whys - how to get to the root of your fudging habit

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References:

Intro Music: 'Local Forecast' by Kevin MacLeod
Intermission Music: 'Chill' by Kevin MacLeod
Outro Music: 'Local Forecast - Elevator' by Kevin MacLeod

Transcript

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to thinking critically

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a d and d discussion a podcast where we

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deep dive single word concepts or ideas

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within the dungeons and dragons 5e

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framework my name is danilo and i like

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all kinds of games and the crunchy

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mechanics that make him tick you can

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find me on twitter facebook and

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instagram and i'd really appreciate a

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like or a follow

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and today i'm joined by bart wynance

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thank you ever so much bart for joining

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me today

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can you tell us a little bit about

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yourself

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okay hi everyone my name is bart wynance

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and i am a freelance rpg writer slash

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designer from antwerp belgium

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which explains my accent little i

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suppose i have been playing rpgs since

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95 i believe starting with call of

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cthulhu

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i've then drifted towards pathfinder

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first edition and have recently well

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three years ago started playing a fifth

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edition campaign curse of strong

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awesome yeah much more experience than

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myself so i'm looking forward to

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leveraging some of that experience today

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let's see

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the uh the topic of today is

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fudging

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uh what is what does that mean to you

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well

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i'd like to give a nuanced answer

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because when you talk about fudging

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people tend to take very extremist views

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either

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it's it's all the rule of cool and

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fudging is the way to go

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or it's all bad and you should never do

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it

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but in my opinion fudging is pretty much

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uh it's a symptom

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of something

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and when things have come

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as far

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as that you need to fudge then you

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probably should do it but what you

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really should do is look at ways to

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avoid doing so

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yeah it's uh but what is the word an

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incendiary topic sometimes as you said a

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lot of extreme views on it um

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and i've touched on it a couple of times

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in the podcast today like fudging dice

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rolls obviously i all the way back in

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episode two i think in ability i asked

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jack then you know what's his what's his

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opinion on on a dm doing that so

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obviously you and i started talking on

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twitter because you've recently done a

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whole ten part

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tweet thread seven seven parties seven

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seven part tweet thread about dice

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fudging and as you've just said

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described the symptoms and trying to get

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to the root cause of okay it was almost

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like

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hey you might have wondered how i've

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found myself in this position of having

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to fudge dice

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that that movie

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and and trying to get to the symptom of

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okay this is what's led you on that path

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and this is how you can kind of cut it

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off much earlier and just save yourself

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the hassle which i which i found really

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really interesting and i'd encourage all

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the listeners to go out and check bart's

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threads on those because there's a lot

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of

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interesting things and it shouldn't be

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any surprise to you part that i didn't

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agree a hundred percent all the time but

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that's why we're talking today and yeah

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that was interesting actually yeah thank

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you

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and um

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but you know most parts i did but there

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are one a few that you know it's a spice

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of life right different different

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opinions and different points of view so

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of course before we get into nitty

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gritty and as i said jack mentioned way

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back when all the way back through the

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mists of time in episode two

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he said

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he feels as a player it's okay for the

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dm to do if

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it makes sense at the time and i

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certainly feel like it's one of those

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things as are a lot in d d specifically

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d d where context is everything i think

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it's so incendiary a question because

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it's so dependent on context right and

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when you ask that question in isolation

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yeah when you ask that question in

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isolation of just oh i've done this or

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should i do this

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people can't help but be like oh my god

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that's the worst thing you could ever

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possibly do because i don't know any of

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the context or the setting or

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how big of an impact that would be in

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your world so

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does that broadly align with i know i

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know your thoughts but

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let's take it slowly for the time being

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does that broadly align with with your

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thoughts on it well pretty much i assume

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that when both the dm and the players

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agree that at some point dinosaur should

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be ignored

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then there's a good reason to do so

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so i won't argue with that

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but the point i made in my article is

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that

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many of those situations can be avoided

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i'm not sure about the exact context of

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the situation question

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but i i believe in most cases can just

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be avoided altogether

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but there is a need to fudge i i want to

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stress that as soon as the end

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thinks or

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assumes the game will be better if they

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ignore the dice rolls well i have

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nothing against that

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they probably have a good reason to do

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so i have a bit of a

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it's a difficult one for me i am

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as a person as human being quite

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risk-averse and quite process oriented

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so

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just that the chaotic nature of dice

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rolls

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are already at a bit of a

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friction with myself there

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one thing that i've wanted to say and

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it's one thing you mentioned in one of

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your threads was rolling in the open

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rolling publicly for example and

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if you'd have asked me or suggested that

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of me

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you know maybe a year or so ago i would

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have found that almost abhorrent an idea

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you know a

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blasphemy to the to the purity of of the

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game

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because it removes

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a tool essentially a toolkit yeah

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however

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since i've started doing it

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it's like a weight has been lifted off

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my shoulders

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i'm glad you mentioned that because

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that's exactly how i felt as well i i

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only really started rolling in the open

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at the start of my cursive chart

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campaign

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and i had the same feeling i was no

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longer responsible or i no longer felt

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responsible the time for everyone's fun

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yeah that's a really elegant way of

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putting it obviously like the gm dm

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has a large responsibility yeah that

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remains of course yeah yeah and all the

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players have a huge amount of

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responsibility too of course but that is

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an extra layer on top of like

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i've kind of implicitly been given the

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power to fudge dice rolls and it just

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implies that

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they are

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directly correlated to fun and it didn't

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it doesn't have to be that way right it

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can just be the dice full where they may

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and it was just as you discussed like a

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a breath of fresh air almost like a

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weight off my shoulders to be like hey i

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don't care like it sounds silly to say i

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don't care anymore

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but that's the only way i can describe

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but when i was rolling privately i was

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there's just another layer of maths on

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top to be like oh is that too much is

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that too little do i need to think about

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it is that going to break the game

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whereas now it's like whatever

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they are what they are

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and

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the most important part is

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right now when i'm when i'm running the

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game i feel like a participant i i'm not

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a player obviously

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but i can unabashedly root for the

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players i i wish them success

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and they know i'm i'm not how to save

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them or push the story one way or

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another but i'm actually actively

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rooting for them and i can do that by

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just rolling all dice in the open and

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and being obvious about that

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yeah that's it's like a twofold benefit

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of what you've just described of being

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transparent with the players and i think

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despite this tradition of a dm screen i

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think transparency is underrated to be

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honest there's always that kind of

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semi-adversarial

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dm screen

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ideology but i think there's there's a

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lot to be said about

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transparency and one way you can achieve

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that is by rolling in the open and the

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the other half the other boon i found is

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as i mentioned it's less it feels like a

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meta gaming less but of course all the

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all the dm does is metagame the metagame

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is their game in a certain way

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if you put it in a certain way but i

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have to yeah i i have to worry less like

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it's less responsibility without losing

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anything from the game

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it's it's less of

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i can control whether that character

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live or dies

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but it's no less fun because of it and

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that's not your burden anymore or it

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shouldn't be

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so that was that was one point and it's

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oddly become easier since moving online

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because of virtual tabletops

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you know it's it's there the numbers are

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on the screen everybody can see them

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indeed you know if i roll in the open in

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a big table with my six players i've you

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know lean in the middle or you know only

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a couple of them will see it's it's ever

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so slightly diluted but you can't get

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much more transparent than

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the gm rolled 1d20 the answer was 15.

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there you go guys

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true

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but that raises an interesting question

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and

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we're going to talk about

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not fudging dice or the results of the

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numbers on the dice but obviously if you

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approach that from a different point of

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view and it's

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difficulty classes or dc's for a certain

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00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:37,600
skill check

266
00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,399
so

267
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,519
i'm a very improvisational

268
00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:42,720
dm

269
00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:44,480
that's a nice way of saying i kind of

270
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:47,440
lead with my intuition i kind of make a

271
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:50,000
judgment call at the time how hard or

272
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,519
easy a particular task should be and

273
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,880
this is going to sound contradictory to

274
00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:54,320
the

275
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,519
how much i was just gushing over rolling

276
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,680
in the open but obviously that's still

277
00:09:55,519 --> 00:10:00,000
very much internalized right there's the

278
00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:01,360
there isn't a public dc so do you also

279
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,440
advocate having

280
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,040
a public dc and saying like before the

281
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,079
character rolls

282
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,320
hey

283
00:10:06,079 --> 00:10:11,279
or before you roll for the character hey

284
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:14,480
this dc is 15. it kind of depends on on

285
00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:15,920
the context i think but usually yes i i

286
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,000
will say

287
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,680
what the armor class is or what the

288
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,760
difficulty class is beforehand because

289
00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:24,959
it helps the player imagine just just

290
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:27,519
how difficult the task at hand is

291
00:10:24,959 --> 00:10:29,200
it adds to the tension now obviously i

292
00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:30,800
don't do this all the time

293
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,040
for for special opponents who have

294
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:35,279
special defenses or something i don't

295
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:38,240
usually call out the ac

296
00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:39,360
very tricky skill checks or skill checks

297
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,279
where

298
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,000
the exact conditions are uncertain i

299
00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:46,480
also play koi about the dc but usually

300
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,079
yes i will tell the players that's what

301
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,160
you need to roll

302
00:10:48,079 --> 00:10:52,000
and they like it actually well of course

303
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,079
that just that's anecdotal because i

304
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,480
only have five players so it means

305
00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:57,920
nothing but at least at my table it's

306
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,760
appreciated

307
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,440
i think for most of those kind of

308
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,959
non-critical and uncomplicated

309
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,720
encounters

310
00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:06,160
nine times out of ten my players are

311
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,920
paying attention to what hits and misses

312
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,600
anyway it only takes like two rounds of

313
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,399
combat and they've worked out what the

314
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,880
ac is anyway you know and you know

315
00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:16,560
putting things like parry and shield

316
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,720
aside it's

317
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,399
pretty easy in a few you know maybe even

318
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,160
one round depending on how the dice roll

319
00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:25,279
someone hits the 17 misses someone hits

320
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:27,279
an 18 it hits done okay it worked out

321
00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:29,600
anyway there's also i've noticed a

322
00:11:27,279 --> 00:11:31,600
strange psychological aspect when the

323
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,720
players don't know the dc at least my

324
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,399
table

325
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,760
they keep rolling the dice in the hand

326
00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:37,760
for a much longer time

327
00:11:37,839 --> 00:11:41,600
they hold the dice just try to weigh

328
00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:43,839
their options like

329
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,640
what would the dc be they don't know but

330
00:11:43,839 --> 00:11:48,079
once you say it's ac 17 okay it takes

331
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,360
two seconds to roll the dice very

332
00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:52,880
strange thing that is strange wow okay

333
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,320
that's interesting i hadn't thought of

334
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,720
that before

335
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,160
i i play a ball game called gloomhaven

336
00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,639
that i've mentioned at least twice

337
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,000
already on the podcast and

338
00:12:00,639 --> 00:12:03,760
it's kind of a cooperative dungeon

339
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,760
crawler and

340
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,200
the rules of that when you're playing

341
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,200
together is

342
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,399
no names and no numbers so it's

343
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,600
everybody's playing with part the

344
00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:13,040
picture because

345
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,639
nobody has all the information the

346
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,079
players are playing classes and they

347
00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:18,240
have special cards that can do special

348
00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:20,079
things but i can't see what my tankier

349
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,839
partner next to me has available to him

350
00:12:20,079 --> 00:12:23,920
so you're all kind of playing on half

351
00:12:21,839 --> 00:12:25,680
information which is where the fun comes

352
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,360
from and the friction and the

353
00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:28,720
and the accidents the happy accidents

354
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,480
and whatnot

355
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,639
so what they say when they may say no

356
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,639
names in their numbers is you can allude

357
00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:37,040
to your party what you're going to do i

358
00:12:34,639 --> 00:12:39,120
might go there and hit this guy but i

359
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,200
can't tell you when i might do that or

360
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,519
how much damage i'm gonna do

361
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,279
which again builds into the oh well do i

362
00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:47,600
need to do more do i need to do less how

363
00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:50,320
much can i push it so yeah it's that

364
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:53,120
it's that no names and no numbers so

365
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,480
you have initiative in that game

366
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,079
in a round

367
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,920
that the four party members can go at a

368
00:12:56,079 --> 00:12:59,680
certain time broadly in the control of

369
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,639
the players within some certain rule

370
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,480
sets

371
00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:04,800
uh the initiative goes from zero to a

372
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,839
hundred but what that what that breeds

373
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,440
and it's a bit of a meme in the

374
00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:09,040
community is

375
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,959
you've got like

376
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,399
mid i'm going to go in the mid

377
00:13:10,959 --> 00:13:15,680
which means

378
00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:18,880
40 to 60 at some point like you you

379
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:20,560
start inventing this language

380
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,160
you start inventing this language and it

381
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:25,120
gets to the you know a silly point of

382
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:28,160
i'm going mid mid mid which is like

383
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:30,800
which is like 49 to 51 right like oh i'm

384
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:33,120
going mid late of early

385
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,680
early is like zero to 25 so the middle

386
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,880
of zero to 25 is what like

387
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:38,000
12

388
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,680
uh

389
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,399
but you start inventing like four layers

390
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:45,040
deep of this kind of like until it and

391
00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:46,839
there's even a meme picture of

392
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,800
literally a hundred different

393
00:13:46,839 --> 00:13:51,040
phrases technically you're not saying

394
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:53,560
any numbers but if you're going early

395
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,120
early early early early that's five

396
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:57,120
[Laughter]

397
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,839
so like you you can kind of get around

398
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,519
it

399
00:13:57,839 --> 00:14:00,560
in in that regard and what i'm getting

400
00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:03,760
at is

401
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:04,720
when i'm rolling or judging dc's at the

402
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,000
table

403
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,320
i'm often

404
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:10,240
employing a similar strategy of saying

405
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,360
you can try but it will be very

406
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,800
difficult

407
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,600
wink as in it's dc3

408
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,120
yeah it's basically the same strategy

409
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,440
yeah and um

410
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,440
it works well i believe there's nothing

411
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:26,320
wrong with it if uh if you want to keep

412
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,320
these hidden a bit and then save some

413
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,000
some surprises for later

414
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,519
but when you're just fighting bog

415
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,440
standard goblins

416
00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:35,440
i see no trouble and saying look their

417
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,399
sc-12 just beat him up and be done with

418
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,880
it

419
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:40,399
it saves time yep for sure which is you

420
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,360
know combat is a bit notorious for

421
00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:45,199
taking long as it is anyway exactly but

422
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,279
for special encounters as you mentioned

423
00:14:45,199 --> 00:14:49,199
yeah of course you you might want to

424
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:50,959
preserve the mystery bit

425
00:14:49,199 --> 00:14:52,320
yeah build the tension but the surprise

426
00:14:50,959 --> 00:14:54,000
but the injury eagle they're not well as

427
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,600
yeah for those bigger set piece

428
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,519
encounters for sure

429
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,199
but for things which are i was going to

430
00:14:57,519 --> 00:15:01,839
say less important but that's not right

431
00:14:59,199 --> 00:15:04,639
so out of combat account as i say the

432
00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:06,880
bard is trying to the classic example of

433
00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:08,560
trying to get a discount at a merchant

434
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,839
it's five gold i'll give you three gold

435
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,880
for it roll me

436
00:15:10,839 --> 00:15:15,440
persuasion you know that that is still

437
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,959
very much in the dm's fiat of

438
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,480
basically

439
00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:20,880
setting whatever they want which is a

440
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,639
way of fudging the outcome right you're

441
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,320
you're rendering the dice roll useless

442
00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:26,240
to a certain extent because the dm could

443
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,320
say 25 i'm having a bad day and i hate

444
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,240
this bard so i'm just going to say

445
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,199
he's going to fail no matter what he

446
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,360
rolls what are you what are your

447
00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:36,079
thoughts on that like the other side of

448
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,759
fudging i suppose i think i i talked

449
00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:38,959
about that not necessarily the bard

450
00:15:37,759 --> 00:15:41,519
example but

451
00:15:38,959 --> 00:15:44,480
i mentioned somewhere that there are

452
00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:45,519
also pointless nice roles and that gems

453
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,000
might be

454
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:50,480
tempted to fudge those as well

455
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,639
so what i had in mind for example are

456
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,839
the barbarian wants to kick down the

457
00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:56,160
door

458
00:15:53,839 --> 00:15:58,720
has strength bars plus three

459
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,680
rolls one loss again rather two rolls of

460
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,000
five

461
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,279
and before long the gm says okay you

462
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,199
kick down the door

463
00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:06,079
but you can just save time and not roll

464
00:16:05,199 --> 00:16:08,720
at all

465
00:16:06,079 --> 00:16:09,519
uh that's also a form of the n fiat

466
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,360
and

467
00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:12,240
i'm going off from the tangent here hold

468
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,480
on

469
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,959
uh what i wanted to say was there are

470
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,360
two kinds of gm field in my opinion you

471
00:16:16,959 --> 00:16:22,639
have the enabling kind

472
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,560
which supports player choice

473
00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:26,160
and you have the negating kind which

474
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,040
which blocks it

475
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,800
now in the case of the bard's example uh

476
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,880
if you set the dc

477
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,199
extremely high of course

478
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,040
then you might as well tell him well no

479
00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:38,800
this is not going to happen and save

480
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,920
yourself the time of the roll

481
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:44,560
that's a negating gm fiat

482
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:48,160
but you could realistically of course

483
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:50,639
set the dc at anything you like

484
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:53,279
and that would be an enabling gm theater

485
00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:56,160
but then it would enable more if you

486
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:57,839
told it to the player before rolling so

487
00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,079
like you could tell them okay this is

488
00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:02,320
going to be a dc25 so it's going to be

489
00:17:00,079 --> 00:17:03,759
difficult do you want to try or do you

490
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,199
want to

491
00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:07,360
improve your chances by doing something

492
00:17:05,199 --> 00:17:11,120
else

493
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:12,799
do you want to bribe him do you want to

494
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:14,079
threaten him whatever do you want to

495
00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:15,760
improve your choice somehow and that's

496
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,120
an enabling choice

497
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,520
or an enabling choice the player can

498
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:20,799
make um that's reminding me of something

499
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,240
you said earlier on that i wanted to

500
00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:23,280
talk about is that

501
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,919
it

502
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,760
helps communicate the difficulty to the

503
00:17:25,919 --> 00:17:29,200
player so of course i could i could wax

504
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,559
lyrical to the player oh it's very

505
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,960
difficult but

506
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:34,880
that obviously means that can mean

507
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,320
basically nothing to the player but then

508
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,640
once you've once you've set the number

509
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,160
it's really told them this no okay hang

510
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,320
on this is actually pretty difficult

511
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,400
like i understand now what the gm is

512
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,799
trying to communicate to me exactly and

513
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:49,120
it really helps build that that shared

514
00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:50,000
image of the scene uh for all players

515
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,360
present

516
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,880
man that's

517
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:55,600
such a profound

518
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,039
boon and we start this conversation with

519
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,559
oh well i've rolled behind the screen it

520
00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,640
was a six i'll just say it's 12. but

521
00:17:58,559 --> 00:18:02,880
it's those it's those kind of things

522
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,120
that are just so easily overlooked the

523
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,600
bigger impact that they can have or the

524
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:08,880
bigger bonuses you can get by by not

525
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,120
doing them

526
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:14,240
the other thing i wanted to mention is

527
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,679
there's a pretty fundamental rule i i'm

528
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,679
pretty sure it's a rule and official

529
00:18:15,679 --> 00:18:18,799
rule but also it's an absolutely rule of

530
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:21,120
thumb it's that you should never get the

531
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:23,679
players to roll for

532
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:24,640
something trivial or impossible

533
00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:26,559
and that

534
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,919
in its own is obvious

535
00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:29,280
but we've just described a couple of

536
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:30,320
examples there just off the top of our

537
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,840
heads

538
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,679
where people you know gm's will still

539
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,480
get characters to roll even though it is

540
00:18:33,679 --> 00:18:37,840
effectively impossible

541
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,400
so like if that merchant was

542
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:43,440
particularly stingy and the chances slim

543
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,360
to none then you wouldn't have them real

544
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,720
persuasion because it's just as you said

545
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,559
wastes time

546
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,760
but that brings me to an another

547
00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:51,600
interesting point and it is one you

548
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,280
tweeted about and it's that single point

549
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,640
of failure and this is one of the points

550
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,520
that we actually did

551
00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:00,960
agree on and it is a big

552
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:03,280
bug bearer of mine because

553
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,799
it's just so obvious

554
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,679
maybe maybe that's just the benefit of

555
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:09,280
being a dm i'm not sure but having a a

556
00:19:07,679 --> 00:19:11,760
role for a single point of failure is

557
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,720
just so immediately obvious to me that

558
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,280
it's it

559
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,919
the reason it bugs me

560
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,440
rant mode engaged the reason it bugs me

561
00:19:17,919 --> 00:19:22,000
is because

562
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,880
it doesn't value my time right

563
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,200
if

564
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,280
there's a single point of failure so for

565
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,080
for those listening what we mean by that

566
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,320
is

567
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:33,360
the dm has painted themselves into a

568
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:35,520
corner or set up some kind of encounter

569
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:39,039
where it all comes down to a single dice

570
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,120
roll to move the story forward so

571
00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:44,080
they need the players to see or to

572
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:45,520
notice a clue like a really critical

573
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,000
clue it's all come down to this one

574
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,760
single clue they're investigating a room

575
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,840
they're searching for it

576
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,039
okay romeo

577
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,880
investigation uh-oh

578
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:56,480
the player has rolled a one

579
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,240
and that that's what we mean by single

580
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,080
point of failure right it's it's they

581
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,000
can't the players are now stuck

582
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,520
essentially so what does the dm do in

583
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,200
that situation

584
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,039
and the reason it bugs me is because as

585
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,039
a player maybe i'm not even i don't even

586
00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:10,799
have to be the one rolling the dice but

587
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:13,840
what happens in that situation usually

588
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:15,039
is the dm has to scrabble around

589
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,159
to say

590
00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:18,960
uh but maybe you have advantage because

591
00:20:18,159 --> 00:20:20,080
you've

592
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,600
er

593
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,000
you feel good about yourself today

594
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,440
because it's friday roll again yeah and

595
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,039
then that's

596
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,679
that's the life ring they've thrown

597
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:31,120
themselves which immediately at that

598
00:20:29,679 --> 00:20:33,360
point you could already tell that okay

599
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:35,520
something's not quite right here

600
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:37,919
shock horror they roll a two

601
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,360
well okay well they're still screwed oh

602
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:41,120
maybe uh

603
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,440
john you roll as well because you're

604
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:45,039
also kind of looking around

605
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,159
yeah you're there as well you take the

606
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:48,000
role yeah

607
00:20:46,159 --> 00:20:49,520
yeah and it doesn't value my time

608
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,039
because at that point i know what the

609
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,120
outcome is i know that we're going to

610
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:55,679
find this thing so why are we still

611
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:57,760
faffing around with roles

612
00:20:55,679 --> 00:20:59,760
well exactly and there's two ways to

613
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,720
handle that the first is consider it a

614
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,120
pointless role and you don't roll at all

615
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,400
which is probably the fastest way

616
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,640
but

617
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,440
there's another way and that's actually

618
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,840
a great trick i learned from

619
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,640
the alexandrian which is a blog i assume

620
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,960
you're familiar with um no please fill

621
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,799
me in and my listeners well uh it's

622
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,840
called the alexandrian it's run by

623
00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:26,000
justin alexander and he has been writing

624
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,880
very very insightful articles

625
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,840
since

626
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,039
i'm not even sure i

627
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,720
think i don't even dare say but we've

628
00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:35,280
been running a very long time

629
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,720
yeah i think he started with 3.5

630
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,200
dungeons and dragons

631
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,440
uh anyway very insightful articles uh

632
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,640
where he discusses common

633
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:46,960
gmming errors common design errors and

634
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,120
actually it's it's his blog which which

635
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,480
inspired me to write this uh thread

636
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,200
about fudging

637
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,240
and

638
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,960
what he mentions there is among other

639
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,799
things the three clue rule that's wrong

640
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,799
you should definitely search for that

641
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:02,080
that is a that's the thing i've heard of

642
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:03,919
i think you've mentioned before in the

643
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:07,600
podcast that i've put into the link i

644
00:22:03,919 --> 00:22:10,000
think yeah in the the thread i mean yeah

645
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,559
and basically uh basically what you do

646
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,000
is if the adventure

647
00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:15,919
or the mystery scenario because it's

648
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,799
about mystery scenarios

649
00:22:15,919 --> 00:22:20,240
if the mystery requires a certain

650
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:22,799
realization

651
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:26,159
to be solved then that realization

652
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:28,799
should be spread around in the scenario

653
00:22:26,159 --> 00:22:32,159
among at least three clues so if the

654
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:33,440
players miss the first misinterpret the

655
00:22:32,159 --> 00:22:35,120
second

656
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,760
then they'll probably

657
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:39,840
be able to advance when they find and

658
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,400
rightly interpret the third and that's a

659
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,760
robust scenario design so then you can

660
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,919
have players

661
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,960
failing their roles or simply making the

662
00:22:45,919 --> 00:22:50,159
wrong choices and missing certain clues

663
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,640
but they still have a chance of

664
00:22:50,159 --> 00:22:55,120
completing scenario

665
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,799
yeah that is something i've it you know

666
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,760
it might even be on that blog post it

667
00:22:56,799 --> 00:23:00,559
was just

668
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,360
months ago and i never

669
00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:04,640
never put two and two together but um

670
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,120
yeah that is something i've read that

671
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:10,159
and obviously would absolutely

672
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:11,600
support and i think it was an example of

673
00:23:10,159 --> 00:23:13,600
the example i saw maybe this is one i

674
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,600
ever made up but it was around um

675
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,880
the players are investigating a murder

676
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,559
or something so they go to the crime

677
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,320
scene and they're trying to find out you

678
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:23,039
know do a sherlock holmes essentially

679
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,520
and find out what what the deal is and

680
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:27,840
perhaps the murderer is the

681
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,640
the baker's apprentice

682
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,200
so

683
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,760
an example of the three clues was maybe

684
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:37,039
they find some flour

685
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,480
around that's fallen off of his is apron

686
00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:39,840
and you know they they might not

687
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,679
immediately say

688
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,120
flower equals baker equals baker's

689
00:23:41,679 --> 00:23:44,960
apprentice but there's that that's a

690
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,159
clue and of itself to stop tugging at

691
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,360
that thread

692
00:23:46,159 --> 00:23:49,600
another clue is perhaps there's a

693
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:51,200
delivery note because he used you know

694
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,880
oh i'm making a delivery here's my

695
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,279
delivery note that's been left on the

696
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,400
floor that yeah gives the address of

697
00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:58,559
the bakers

698
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,080
oh suddenly i'm starting to put

699
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:02,080
two and two together and i'm getting a

700
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,640
number here and then the third is maybe

701
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:07,200
you know a basin at a basket of fresh

702
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,799
loaves that he was hiding the sword in

703
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,559
the deal the dagger in that he used to

704
00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:12,720
commit the murder yeah that's a good

705
00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:14,320
example hey thank you i kind of half

706
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,440
half remembered half made that up on the

707
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,360
spot so thank you that's not bad

708
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,520
i mean definitely so i got that credit i

709
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:23,200
got credit somebody from in the past and

710
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,799
but it is it's it's probably

711
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,960
misremembered poorly on my part but

712
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:28,320
thank you nonetheless but um i think the

713
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,640
point is is that like

714
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,240
even one of those is still good like

715
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,159
with the right team and you know

716
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,760
insightful players which i imagine you'd

717
00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:38,000
have in that kind of setting

718
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,520
even one of those is enough to get them

719
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,919
on the right track but all three

720
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,159
together and a they feel chuffed that

721
00:24:41,919 --> 00:24:46,559
hey we've or our characters have managed

722
00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:48,320
to find three clues that's really good

723
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:49,840
which just improves yeah increases that

724
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,919
confidence level and well it's

725
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,440
definitely the baker's then let's go

726
00:24:51,919 --> 00:24:55,840
exactly and they get this sense of

727
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,799
reward because if you just use your gm

728
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,400
fiat

729
00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:00,480
to say yeah you found the clue you found

730
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,559
the bloody glove you can go ahead the

731
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,400
scenario continues and as it's it's

732
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:05,760
decent design i i won't know good that

733
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,679
argued that

734
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,120
but uh it's not as rewarding as as the

735
00:25:07,679 --> 00:25:12,240
players finding

736
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:15,039
one two or three clues by themselves

737
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,039
yeah it's a good point actually yeah for

738
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:20,480
expedience or you know if you're

739
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:22,559
improvising hard then i would not

740
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,720
you know criticize anybody for doing a

741
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:26,320
you found like you found the clue

742
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,919
without rolling because

743
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,120
in those dies that you i know as a dm

744
00:25:27,919 --> 00:25:32,000
like in those dire situations you're

745
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:33,760
willing to throw anything at the wall

746
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,720
just to make it look like you know keep

747
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,400
those plates spinning but obviously in a

748
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,760
pre-planned thing yeah absolutely you

749
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,279
roll it through but

750
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,279
what i guess is a follow-up to that

751
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:45,440
would be you would might want to vary

752
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:48,159
the difficulty on those so maybe that

753
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,720
the likelihood of finding one is

754
00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:52,640
quite high you know a scaling difficulty

755
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,960
the middle one is maybe 50 50 and the

756
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,200
third clue is maybe you know 25 chance

757
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,600
of finding it just to um

758
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,120
obviously increase the likelihood of

759
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,120
something happening but it's all set up

760
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:07,440
ahead of time you roll on the open

761
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:08,799
transparency reward plus plus right yeah

762
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,720
so

763
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:12,080
yeah i mean i could rent about a single

764
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,000
point of failure all day because it's

765
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,840
just i just have to like

766
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,520
cringe whenever i'm everyone's

767
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,520
experienced a single point of failure

768
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,480
yeah everyone's had that

769
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,600
yeah

770
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,440
and another another thing i wanted to

771
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,000
mention earlier on about how i started

772
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,559
rolling in the open is

773
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,039
something that i didn't necessarily

774
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:33,760
well not didn't necessarily i absolutely

775
00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:36,880
didn't think about until it hit me

776
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:39,600
was there are items in the ind5e

777
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,240
that have random elements to them that

778
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:45,279
aren't even necessarily dice tables so

779
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:49,279
there are things like a helmet of

780
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:50,840
brilliance and necklace of prayer beads

781
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:53,200
which have

782
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,480
1d6 gems in them

783
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,799
and

784
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,200
i planned on giving

785
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,080
both of those items to my players

786
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,799
and

787
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,000
immediately i went to my gm friend

788
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:06,480
confidant

789
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,480
and said and this is a crutch this is

790
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,640
this is you know this is a failure and

791
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,120
my point that i didn't just roll but i

792
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,799
said him oh god what if what if they get

793
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:17,760
all six gems and what if it's just one

794
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:19,200
gem and oh no and i was absolutely

795
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,279
falling foul of what we were discussing

796
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,520
earlier on like i was meta gaming and

797
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:25,760
making more work for myself when i

798
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,159
didn't really need to so in the end

799
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,000
i just got my dice tower got my phone

800
00:27:28,159 --> 00:27:32,080
and recorded the dice rolling so i sent

801
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,760
it to the player and said look there's

802
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,600
oh yeah you know i rolled for the number

803
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,279
of gems and then you roll then there is

804
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,120
a dice table for

805
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:40,960
what the gems correspond to what spells

806
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,120
they have so ended up running like five

807
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,440
d20s at once recorded it on whatsapp

808
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:46,720
sent in the video and said they go 17 14

809
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,799
seven and six

810
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,320
that means you've got this spell this

811
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:51,520
they'll build a spot on this spell and

812
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,279
then it was actually quite a good

813
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,480
discussion with him then because hey

814
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:56,720
you've actually been pretty lucky this

815
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,320
is cool like i'm happy for you because

816
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,720
you've got a couple decent decent spells

817
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,320
here yeah yeah exactly exactly yeah

818
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,000
precisely so that was that was i was

819
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,440
quite happy i was like hey the law of

820
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,039
averages means

821
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,279
you know inevitably it was going to be

822
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:11,039
pretty middle of the road anyway

823
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:12,880
and i needn't have feared

824
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:14,080
the worst case scenario of what if he

825
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,159
gets a million

826
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,120
wishes which is impossible but it's you

827
00:28:16,159 --> 00:28:18,559
know

828
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,760
it's that level of

829
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:21,360
of fear

830
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,480
um which you know didn't happen and that

831
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:25,440
was a big

832
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,399
that was a big step for me to be like

833
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,919
because

834
00:28:26,399 --> 00:28:31,039
you know it's taken out of my control to

835
00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:33,520
a certain extent and i am quite

836
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:36,000
particular with my story shall we say

837
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:39,039
yeah i understand that's that's normal i

838
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:41,520
think um i've had to learn abandoning

839
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:44,480
that sense of control as well

840
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,000
i wonder where that comes from then i

841
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,159
think the fact that

842
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,760
you and i have had it and talk about it

843
00:28:48,159 --> 00:28:51,520
and there's articles about it and you

844
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,799
know you're tweeting

845
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,799
all about it

846
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,480
that essentially it's that abandonment

847
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:58,240
of control

848
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,640
from from the gm's perspective where

849
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:03,440
does that where is that born from that

850
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,440
preciousness of control i'm now thinking

851
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,559
out loud here but

852
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:10,240
that's

853
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:13,039
i i think it's it's because um

854
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:16,720
well everything uh all the commercial

855
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:19,360
modules are about telling a story

856
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,679
and if you want to play that module

857
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,520
you need to follow the story and

858
00:29:21,679 --> 00:29:25,440
usually they're pretty much

859
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,840
a big railroad

860
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,320
uh curse of straw is a notable exception

861
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:33,279
and i believe uh tomb of violation as

862
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:36,000
well i'm not really sure

863
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:37,760
but many many modules especially uh the

864
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,880
pathfinder first edition

865
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,720
the many

866
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:44,240
modules they made for that

867
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,480
we usually railroads starting in the inn

868
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,640
and you go to the goblins lair and from

869
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,840
there on you go to the wizards tower and

870
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,640
so on

871
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,360
and

872
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,360
you need to retain control

873
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,399
all the players go off track

874
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,880
but that's not necessarily a problem as

875
00:29:58,399 --> 00:30:03,039
far as i'm concerned i've had to learn

876
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,039
letting go of that idea and when the

877
00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:06,720
players went off track just say okay you

878
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:08,720
abandon the railroad

879
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,559
and uh we'll

880
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,720
we'll use a different module or we'll

881
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:14,640
use some homebrew content to flesh out

882
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,799
where you're going next

883
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:22,640
and that's actually it makes for a more

884
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:24,159
realistic isn't the right word um

885
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,600
it's more fun that's something i can

886
00:30:24,159 --> 00:30:28,960
definitely say i found it more fun

887
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,960
uh so

888
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,679
one thing you mentioned in your

889
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:36,080
in your talk on fudging dice is your

890
00:30:33,679 --> 00:30:37,440
tools not rules policy so i was

891
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,279
wondering if you could uh tell us a

892
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,159
little bit more about that

893
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:45,440
yeah tools are rules means

894
00:30:42,159 --> 00:30:47,120
basically all these gm or dm techniques

895
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,480
you read about online because there are

896
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,640
many many techniques floating about

897
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,559
none of them in themselves

898
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,440
help you be a better dm

899
00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:58,880
they're just things you should consider

900
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,200
at least

901
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:04,000
and then learn to adapt into your own

902
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,000
games because even the information i put

903
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,519
in my threads like uh always rolling the

904
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,080
open or rolling the open as much as

905
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:11,519
possible that might not work in your own

906
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,360
campaign

907
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,679
so what you want to do is you want to

908
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,799
take that advice

909
00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:18,480
use it

910
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:20,480
a little at first perhaps some more

911
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,279
later see what works

912
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,279
and in the end the goal is is just to to

913
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:27,600
have more fun at the table that's it

914
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:29,679
that that's all there is to it

915
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,679
yeah i very much see

916
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:33,600
myself as a gm as having a talk here i

917
00:31:31,679 --> 00:31:36,080
think i mentioned it earlier on like a

918
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,679
tool belt that as i'm playing i can pull

919
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,760
out a tool and

920
00:31:37,679 --> 00:31:41,039
apply it in some way or even you know

921
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,480
not even during the game just in

922
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:43,919
campaign prep and

923
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,760
story you know world building and stuff

924
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:47,360
you can oh let me think about it in that

925
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,440
way and let me think about what three

926
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,360
clues to put here maybe it needs five or

927
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,399
maybe it doesn't need any and you know

928
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,320
that

929
00:31:52,399 --> 00:31:56,320
thought process there of

930
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,640
what is

931
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,640
good for this particular context is

932
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,799
everything right yes exactly that's what

933
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,010
i was going to say context is everything

934
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:08,339
really

935
00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:08,339
[Music]

936
00:32:12,060 --> 00:32:16,320
[Music]

937
00:32:13,679 --> 00:32:17,519
uh one thing you mentioned

938
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,840
uh we talked about earlier and you

939
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:21,840
mentioned in your threads was

940
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,440
dice tables some random tables and i

941
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,640
know i know some of the magical items i

942
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:29,279
mentioned do but the more primary

943
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,159
way of dice tables is either encounters

944
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:32,960
or

945
00:32:30,159 --> 00:32:34,399
treasure or i feel like a missing one

946
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,039
you know combat counters or road

947
00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:40,080
encounters treasure um

948
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:41,440
um wild magic was an example i used yes

949
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,279
yeah

950
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,399
reincarnation tables oh because you come

951
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:48,480
back as a different race yes for example

952
00:32:46,399 --> 00:32:50,960
so yeah is that fudging

953
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,600
well to me yes i mean it was it was when

954
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,679
i read that i said i thought to myself

955
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,559
wow that's weird that someone would

956
00:32:55,679 --> 00:33:00,320
fudge those dice rolls because

957
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:01,360
the whole reason you've got those tables

958
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,240
is because you don't know what you're

959
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,240
doing or you know you you want

960
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,039
it to be decided for you

961
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,480
so then to change that means you've

962
00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:12,000
you've already decided what you want to

963
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,000
happen so it was this weird kind of

964
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,760
counter intuitive

965
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,200
you've answered your own question

966
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,480
it's where things get fuzzy in my

967
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,120
opinion the world

968
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:23,200
um i believe what i wrote in the thread

969
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,399
was because i've been thinking about it

970
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,399
uh

971
00:33:24,399 --> 00:33:27,519
for quite some time before writing that

972
00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:29,760
of course

973
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:32,080
um the way i saw it was

974
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,399
these these random tables basically

975
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,840
there's two types to me you have the

976
00:33:34,399 --> 00:33:39,039
creative ones

977
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:41,440
which are actually the gm

978
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:42,720
delegating their fear to a table so as

979
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,640
you mentioned

980
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,679
uh they say well i don't know what's

981
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,559
going to happen i'm going to roll on the

982
00:33:45,679 --> 00:33:48,640
table

983
00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:50,240
so they're purely creative

984
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,720
and then you have some which are purely

985
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,399
mechanical for example the the weird

986
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,840
magic

987
00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:59,840
fallout table or what's called the

988
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,360
purely creative ones

989
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,480
for me they're just

990
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,320
they're the enabling kind of the unfiat

991
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,200
it doesn't really matter whether you

992
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:11,200
roll or choose so

993
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,200
if you for example if you're using a

994
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,839
random dungeon generator table

995
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:19,040
to see what's around the next corner

996
00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:21,119
whether you roll a corridor or a room or

997
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,960
you choose either of those

998
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:24,399
it doesn't really matter the players

999
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,000
still have the same choice do we go

1000
00:34:24,399 --> 00:34:27,040
there or not

1001
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,560
um and then you have the purely

1002
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,159
mechanical ones

1003
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,919
so like the

1004
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:34,560
the wild magic i keep forgetting the

1005
00:34:31,919 --> 00:34:36,399
name yeah well just say weird magic

1006
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,520
the wild magic

1007
00:34:36,399 --> 00:34:39,599
those

1008
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,520
are actually the results also of a

1009
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:44,159
player's choice

1010
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:46,879
because the player factors in

1011
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,240
every single effect that can happen as a

1012
00:34:46,879 --> 00:34:50,079
result of their choice so they want to

1013
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:52,000
cast wild magic

1014
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:54,560
then they accepted

1015
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,599
whatever can happen

1016
00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:00,960
so i wouldn't fudge those because

1017
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:02,800
you're affecting the result of a choice

1018
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,520
but then there's there's these weird in

1019
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,119
between situations uh like

1020
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,960
wandering monsters

1021
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:11,599
because wandering monsters on one hand

1022
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,599
they're creative because they they help

1023
00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:16,079
shape the environment to help set a

1024
00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:18,000
certain theme

1025
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:19,220
but they also have a mechanical

1026
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,720
component so

1027
00:35:19,220 --> 00:35:22,720
[Music]

1028
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:25,200
and that's a difficult one and

1029
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:28,079
i believe i wrote there that as a gm you

1030
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,760
should consider why you want to fudge

1031
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:32,079
that if you want to fudge it because

1032
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,560
it's it's a bad fit i mean is it a white

1033
00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:36,800
dragon in the middle of the desert well

1034
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,720
perhaps you can fudge

1035
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,480
and choose something else simply

1036
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,599
or is it because

1037
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,960
you want to change something

1038
00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:44,240
mechanically you want to up the

1039
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,440
challenge you want to decrease the

1040
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,960
challenge

1041
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,240
in the latter case

1042
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,839
perhaps not fudge in the former i like

1043
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,599
to give myself a couple of seconds to

1044
00:35:51,839 --> 00:35:55,680
see if i can't come up with some

1045
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:57,359
creative reason to accept the result

1046
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,920
anyway

1047
00:35:57,359 --> 00:36:01,920
but of course i like most games i want

1048
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,520
to keep the game flowing so if i can't

1049
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,040
come up with something in in three to

1050
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,960
five seconds

1051
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,839
i choose something else

1052
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,320
so the first not really fudging

1053
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:13,920
i can i can accept that it's player

1054
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,160
choice enabling

1055
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,839
the seconds

1056
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,400
it's fudging

1057
00:36:17,839 --> 00:36:21,599
hmm there's a lot to a lot to unpack

1058
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,800
there

1059
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:25,839
man this is tricky it's a tricky topic

1060
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,320
and it's

1061
00:36:25,839 --> 00:36:30,960
you can see why it spawns so much

1062
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,560
discussion of

1063
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,839
it almost feels like that wizards of the

1064
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,520
coast are just

1065
00:36:33,839 --> 00:36:37,280
like deliberately

1066
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,960
not referencing the elephant in the room

1067
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,640
like deliberately distancing themselves

1068
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,240
and just being like

1069
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,160
we're not going to think about too much

1070
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:45,119
about this thing because it's just going

1071
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,800
to be

1072
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:49,200
a very interesting

1073
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,119
discussion um

1074
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,119
it's possible but i have the impression

1075
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:55,680
the words of the coast and and

1076
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:58,000
actually most publishers

1077
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,599
they are for fudging

1078
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,440
i i have this impression that this may

1079
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:03,680
be this may be wrong

1080
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,680
but i think they they advocate budging

1081
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,760
because it helps new dms and that's

1082
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,119
actually a very good reason to fudge if

1083
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,000
you're just

1084
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:14,000
getting your feet wet and and well

1085
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,400
when i started out i made lots of

1086
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,160
mistakes and i'm sure everyone did

1087
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,160
then it's better to fudge than let the

1088
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,359
game grind down to a halt so it helps

1089
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,440
gm's gain a bit of confidence i think

1090
00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:28,480
and and not make mistakes

1091
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:31,040
uh party killers or campaign killers

1092
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,960
just helps to move the game along

1093
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,920
it's one of those things though that can

1094
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,760
be

1095
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,440
a crutch or you know you pick it up in

1096
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,839
your formative years

1097
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,119
and then it becomes part of your staple

1098
00:37:39,839 --> 00:37:43,520
of

1099
00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:45,599
work then so it works now and then 10

1100
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,960
years later you're still doing it but

1101
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:48,240
even though

1102
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,720
you don't need to anymore because you're

1103
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:52,560
actually a darn fantastic gm at this

1104
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:54,640
point so you you could probably do it

1105
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,320
without it but it's just built into you

1106
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,240
at that point because

1107
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,240
it worked 10 years ago when i was

1108
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:00,960
learning so i guess it's a good thing to

1109
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,280
do

1110
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,400
of course and it's an easy fix

1111
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,760
um

1112
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,680
that's a good point because one of my

1113
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,680
notes here i was trying to put it off

1114
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,280
for a little while but the uh about

1115
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,200
maybe where we

1116
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,640
just disagree somewhat or maybe not

1117
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,800
disagree too strong word but have

1118
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:20,560
different thoughts on is

1119
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,880
at low levels but now here's my problem

1120
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,599
here's what i'm trying to untangle

1121
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,280
is it actually at low levels

1122
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:29,920
as in character levels

1123
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,839
or is it was actually

1124
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,079
my experience at the time was i didn't

1125
00:38:31,839 --> 00:38:35,040
have you know i was a low level dm at

1126
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:36,480
the time

1127
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,680
and it's just because the correlation

1128
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,839
there is

1129
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,599
one to one you know they were the

1130
00:38:39,839 --> 00:38:44,560
characters at low level and i'd also

1131
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:46,800
just started dming um

1132
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,800
but it's easy to conflate the two

1133
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,240
but in reality it's

1134
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,079
i didn't use

1135
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:53,440
fudging the dice because they were low

1136
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:56,240
levels i was actually using it because i

1137
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:59,359
didn't know any better and that

1138
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:01,440
you can't get around those tpk as with a

1139
00:38:59,359 --> 00:39:03,119
little bit of thought and experience

1140
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,359
i'm kind of convincing myself of that

1141
00:39:03,119 --> 00:39:06,480
answer now but what are your thoughts on

1142
00:39:05,359 --> 00:39:10,160
the uh

1143
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:12,880
early level life support you mean yeah

1144
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,400
that's that's expectation management

1145
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,000
i think that depends on the kind of game

1146
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,280
you want to run

1147
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:21,359
i personally i like a bit of a bit of

1148
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,960
danger and lethality in my games

1149
00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:26,000
so when my players set out in cursive

1150
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:29,440
strat they started out on level one

1151
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:32,160
and i tell them well i'm gonna roll in

1152
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,280
public on the table uh if if you're dead

1153
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,720
you're dead

1154
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,560
so that was setting setting the

1155
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,520
expectations already

1156
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,680
and

1157
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,359
i think we lost one player in the

1158
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,920
meantime

1159
00:39:41,359 --> 00:39:45,599
um but of course if if the kind of story

1160
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,040
or the campaign you want to run

1161
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:48,320
is something which really starts to

1162
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,200
unfold that's

1163
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,800
just saying level two three or you want

1164
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,240
to to first give the players the

1165
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,640
bearings a bit

1166
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,760
i can understand that that you want to

1167
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,920
uh

1168
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,839
test some some life supports

1169
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:04,560
in the form of fudging

1170
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:07,359
so i understand that

1171
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,280
but i still think that there are

1172
00:40:07,359 --> 00:40:11,520
well as a dm

1173
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,359
there are different ways to

1174
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,960
have that life support in place without

1175
00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:17,359
fudging the dice

1176
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,920
but of course it's much trickier because

1177
00:40:17,359 --> 00:40:21,200
the margin of error is so much smaller

1178
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,680
yes

1179
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,400
yeah you'll you're on the razor's edge

1180
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,160
there

1181
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,800
for a lot of that

1182
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,240
because just one mistake one uh one

1183
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,680
critical hit by a blood bear and they're

1184
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:33,359
gone

1185
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,119
do you think that is because that's

1186
00:40:33,359 --> 00:40:36,400
exactly the thought i had earlier on

1187
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:37,440
when i was thinking about this episode

1188
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,119
was that

1189
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,040
people fight the dice because it's so

1190
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:42,960
swingy i always say you know the first

1191
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,160
few levels are super swingy

1192
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,880
and that

1193
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,760
usually smooths out as you get into tier

1194
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,079
two

1195
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,359
uh there is much less swinging or

1196
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:54,560
there's a lot more margin for error

1197
00:40:51,359 --> 00:40:56,319
shall we say you know revive the five uh

1198
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,240
kill wounds potions you know all that

1199
00:40:56,319 --> 00:41:01,119
kind of stuff yeah exactly to smooth out

1200
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:03,359
that that swinginess but um

1201
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:05,440
it is swingy at low levels do you think

1202
00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:07,760
that is a failing of the framework do

1203
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,960
you think that's a failing of the rules

1204
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:13,200
or is that almost a necessary evil

1205
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,839
that's a tough question i think the

1206
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:18,000
failing of the rules

1207
00:41:15,839 --> 00:41:20,160
no not necessarily

1208
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,359
i suppose i i really haven't looked at

1209
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,280
it that way

1210
00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:25,599
because one thing i talked about in in

1211
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,280
the threads uh was that for combat

1212
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,720
encounters

1213
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,400
it's

1214
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:32,880
and i do blame i blame video games for

1215
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:36,480
this uh like an old man ain't playing

1216
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:39,040
video games that many gm's

1217
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,160
set the stakes for combat encounters at

1218
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,920
death

1219
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,079
goblins come from the woods and they

1220
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,400
won't kill you

1221
00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:48,400
and if you're not prepared to accept a

1222
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,839
player death as a result of such an

1223
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,440
encounter

1224
00:41:49,839 --> 00:41:54,400
then you shouldn't set the stakes at

1225
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,720
play death because you control not only

1226
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,119
which encounters they they have

1227
00:41:56,720 --> 00:42:01,599
but also the motives of those characters

1228
00:41:59,119 --> 00:42:04,480
so if if combat and swinging combat is

1229
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:06,319
the problem at early levels

1230
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,079
my suggestion would be to change the

1231
00:42:06,319 --> 00:42:10,000
stakes simply put

1232
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:11,359
so stop putting the players or stop

1233
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,000
putting the characters in situations

1234
00:42:11,359 --> 00:42:16,720
where only death is is a probable

1235
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,720
outcome of either party and that's what

1236
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:21,920
i did in cursive strata i think because

1237
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:23,680
they recommend you start at third level

1238
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,880
but as i mentioned before i didn't do

1239
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,160
that

1240
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,000
but i simply didn't

1241
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,560
have everyone out to kill the pcs at

1242
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,160
first sight and that's helped a lot

1243
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,520
is that from your experience and

1244
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,960
knowledge of most of the published

1245
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,960
modules that

1246
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,720
that are released are they

1247
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,839
their first encounters let's take lost

1248
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:45,280
minds of

1249
00:42:41,839 --> 00:42:47,359
van delva i think um i i seem to recall

1250
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,359
the first combat and that is quite

1251
00:42:47,359 --> 00:42:51,599
kill or be killed i don't remember that

1252
00:42:49,359 --> 00:42:53,440
one i have it here but uh i i haven't

1253
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:55,359
played it yet so what about any others

1254
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,960
that you have experience with

1255
00:42:55,359 --> 00:42:59,280
those kind of first early encounters in

1256
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,040
the game are they often that

1257
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,599
kill or be killed or are there other

1258
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,520
avenues out from your experience well

1259
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:07,839
from what i can recall most published

1260
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,280
modules an encounter is kill or be

1261
00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:11,119
killed

1262
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,280
that happens a lot

1263
00:43:11,119 --> 00:43:15,359
so although it might not be a failing of

1264
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,960
the system or the rules of the

1265
00:43:15,359 --> 00:43:18,640
frameworks

1266
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,160
does that not suggest that the published

1267
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,880
modules

1268
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,640
encourage those failings in a way like

1269
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,720
uh emphasize

1270
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,000
those issues in the in the fact that

1271
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:30,880
it's kill or be killed at those low

1272
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,640
levels i i would say yes

1273
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,160
they they compound the problem a little

1274
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,119
uh that's the word i was looking for

1275
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,640
yeah compound the problem yeah precisely

1276
00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:40,560
it's uh

1277
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,079
it's an interesting one i i kind of

1278
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,560
regret opening this little can of worms

1279
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:46,160
now like

1280
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,400
as you bring me you know we're coming

1281
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,000
nearing the end of the episode and

1282
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,560
yeah it's one i hadn't really thought of

1283
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:55,520
too much um i know that i

1284
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,920
i have fudged dice in the past

1285
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:00,400
dice actually less so

1286
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,680
more often than not i'm fudging

1287
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,520
hp

1288
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,720
is

1289
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:09,520
my main like creature hp

1290
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:10,960
which is twofold one because i hate

1291
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,800
maths and

1292
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:16,319
my characters are level eight seem to be

1293
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:18,240
nine now and combat is quite complicated

1294
00:44:16,319 --> 00:44:19,920
uh you know with lots of imagine yeah

1295
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,520
lots of enemies lots of numbers flying

1296
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,880
around i really don't have it in my

1297
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,640
mental space at the time along with

1298
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,839
doing all the flavor and environmental

1299
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,640
effects and

1300
00:44:25,839 --> 00:44:30,319
so on and so on to really

1301
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,319
i haven't got a good system yet for

1302
00:44:30,319 --> 00:44:34,960
really managing all the hp so

1303
00:44:32,319 --> 00:44:37,040
sometimes i round you know the character

1304
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:40,079
says they hit for 24 i'm not okay that's

1305
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:42,720
20. yeah okay with my my mental

1306
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:44,079
reasoning behind that is that oh broadly

1307
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:45,920
over enough sessions it would all kind

1308
00:44:44,079 --> 00:44:48,800
of even out

1309
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,400
balance out you know sense yeah

1310
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,960
you know you know flip enough coins and

1311
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:55,520
it'll be 50 50. uh is is my mentality

1312
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,040
behind today today it's 24 to 20 but

1313
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:01,200
tomorrow it's you know

1314
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:04,160
16 to 20. so you should go but i know

1315
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,680
that that is i get out of jail free on

1316
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,079
my part so

1317
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:11,599
what are your thoughts on that well i

1318
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:12,960
think your way is consistent so

1319
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:16,240
i think your logic is sound if you do

1320
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,440
that all the time then it will even out

1321
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:18,960
um and

1322
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,400
by the way it's it's important to keep

1323
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,839
the game flowing

1324
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,319
so if that helps you keep the game

1325
00:45:21,839 --> 00:45:26,720
flowing that's a win to me

1326
00:45:24,319 --> 00:45:27,680
so is that fudging not really because

1327
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:28,960
you're not

1328
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,359
you're not constantly pushing the

1329
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,760
encounter go one way or the other you're

1330
00:45:31,359 --> 00:45:35,839
just rounding up or rounding down to

1331
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,920
make things move along smoothly so

1332
00:45:35,839 --> 00:45:40,960
that's that's fine in my book

1333
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,960
and i well my players are only level

1334
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,880
five at the moment so i i haven't

1335
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,680
encountered the same problem before

1336
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,480
but

1337
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:51,440
i have thought about it and the thing i

1338
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,920
plan on doing is just giving my players

1339
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,280
notepads or dice or whatever and tell

1340
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,920
them to keep track of their points for

1341
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,680
me of the creatures other creatures oh

1342
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,280
wow it also gives them some sense of

1343
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,640
achievement

1344
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,359
it gives them something to do at the

1345
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:07,280
table less distractions less less using

1346
00:46:05,359 --> 00:46:10,000
the phone and all that

1347
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,760
um and the hit points don't need to be a

1348
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,400
secret for me

1349
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,880
yeah that is bold okay here we go here

1350
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:19,200
we go 50 minutes in and we're at the big

1351
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,680
big juicy boys here we go what you could

1352
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,920
do is also uh count the other way around

1353
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,680
just um have the characters add up the

1354
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,000
hit points instead of subtracting from

1355
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,160
uh from the total and then they won't

1356
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,160
know the total hit points until you say

1357
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,000
well he's dead

1358
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,839
yeah that might be the concession that i

1359
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,760
would make if i was to introduce this

1360
00:46:35,839 --> 00:46:39,280
which i might well do it moves the game

1361
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,599
along

1362
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:44,240
uh from one of the other episodes

1363
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:46,800
uh enhancements we talked about

1364
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:48,000
delegating tasks to players so that's

1365
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,880
actually something i've that's you know

1366
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,480
that's

1367
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,319
literally something i've now done you

1368
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,079
know i had that discussion and with

1369
00:46:52,319 --> 00:46:55,599
christian and

1370
00:46:54,079 --> 00:46:57,440
since then i've actually adopted that

1371
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:59,520
with my players so now i've got one

1372
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:02,240
player who's like the note taker one

1373
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:05,280
player who is tracking magical items for

1374
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:06,319
the party and one is doing buffs and

1375
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,440
debuffs

1376
00:47:06,319 --> 00:47:09,839
so it's not

1377
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,280
too much of a stretch to say okay i need

1378
00:47:09,839 --> 00:47:12,400
another one of you guys like it was six

1379
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,680
of them so there's enough of them to go

1380
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,240
around to say

1381
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,640
one of you you're counting hp for the

1382
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:19,920
the damage should i say why not

1383
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,640
interesting

1384
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,040
interesting i say rubbing my hands

1385
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:27,920
together

1386
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:30,480
yeah that will be a huge

1387
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,880
weight off of my mind again mainly just

1388
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,640
for the expedience just because every

1389
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,079
time there's damage done by the players

1390
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:39,359
which is a lot

1391
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:40,640
i have to go up stop let me count and do

1392
00:47:39,359 --> 00:47:42,160
a number and

1393
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,160
this that and the other

1394
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,599
whereas you could just flip that around

1395
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,160
to maybe one or two players you could

1396
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:50,319
split it to say yeah you do the ghouls

1397
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,319
you did skeletons something like that

1398
00:47:50,319 --> 00:47:53,680
yeah yeah precisely yeah and every time

1399
00:47:52,319 --> 00:47:54,800
it gets damaged you just tell me what

1400
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,079
the number is

1401
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,800
and then that you've completely

1402
00:47:56,079 --> 00:48:00,000
mitigated meta gaming

1403
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,680
some people aren't going to like that i

1404
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,000
think because it

1405
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,520
it takes away some of the not even not

1406
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,800
even the mystery but it takes away some

1407
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,240
of the romance

1408
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,000
of

1409
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:12,079
that question of well how is he looking

1410
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,920
oh he's looking beat up and he's on his

1411
00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:15,680
last legs you know it

1412
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,040
gives them a little bit more but again

1413
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,800
it's their context is everything right

1414
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,720
if your players aren't in it for the

1415
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,160
true for the romance it might not be for

1416
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:25,040
everyone

1417
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,880
but i think yeah it just it saves time

1418
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,800
at the table and it frees up your brain

1419
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,880
power to to go with the cool

1420
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,839
descriptions and keep the flow of combat

1421
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,720
going

1422
00:48:31,839 --> 00:48:34,960
so

1423
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:37,119
for me it's a small price to pay

1424
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,520
yeah i am quite a fan of it was a i

1425
00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:40,480
think it was an angry gm angry dm post

1426
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,599
that was

1427
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,319
talked about

1428
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:45,599
a flow of combat is like um a dolphin

1429
00:48:44,319 --> 00:48:46,960
like swimming you know you you come up

1430
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:48,720
over the water you break the water you

1431
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,480
dive underneath you come up you dive

1432
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:52,640
underneath so it's that

1433
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,800
when you stitch the turns together yeah

1434
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,800
you describe okay

1435
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,960
john you've just seen your party member

1436
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,680
james be slashed across his face with

1437
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,040
this

1438
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,559
what are you doing

1439
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,760
and then you got your duck up back

1440
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:05,680
underneath then when you come back out

1441
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,760
again you you keep it going and i'd much

1442
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:10,079
rather focus on that

1443
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:13,680
than i would let me get my excel

1444
00:49:10,079 --> 00:49:17,040
spreadsheet and mark off this and

1445
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:20,319
uh hang on let me open the vtt and

1446
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,760
what's 17 minus 12 is this okay enter

1447
00:49:20,319 --> 00:49:24,400
like

1448
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,480
breaks up the flow and also i think

1449
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,319
players will love doing that

1450
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,960
i mean i can name two players at my

1451
00:49:28,319 --> 00:49:32,400
table who love keeping track of uh their

1452
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,000
kills

1453
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,800
and so they'll love keeping track of hit

1454
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,640
points as well hmm yeah i just i'm just

1455
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,240
thinking about a way that's doable with

1456
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,160
my current virtual tabletop setup as

1457
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:43,280
well in terms of counting up rather than

1458
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,640
counting down

1459
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:48,160
and have the same effect so

1460
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,440
in the in the in the virtual tabletop i

1461
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:54,000
use monsters their their health isn't

1462
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,280
displayed on them they have a a bin

1463
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,599
again funnily enough a bit like the

1464
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,480
gloomhaven descriptor of initiative they

1465
00:49:57,599 --> 00:49:59,680
have a

1466
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,319
injured

1467
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,599
barely injured heavily injured wounded

1468
00:50:02,319 --> 00:50:05,520
you know and it's a percentage of their

1469
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:06,960
hp total but you could obviously i could

1470
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,920
flip that the maths on its head and it

1471
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:12,160
would i would count up it would go 10 is

1472
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,000
not her and obviously 90 of hp is

1473
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,680
heavily wounded so that could still work

1474
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,920
you could still do it

1475
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:20,720
that that's on my notes that's on my my

1476
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,800
notes for opening next session

1477
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:25,040
this is what we're going to try but to

1478
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,359
put a nice bow in it as we've said a

1479
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,720
couple times it's it's that case of

1480
00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:30,880
as you said

1481
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:33,520
try it out try a couple times maybe it

1482
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,520
sticks maybe it doesn't but without

1483
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:38,240
at least trying you'll never know

1484
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:40,319
yeah and make a few tweaks if necessary

1485
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:41,839
but just just find out what works best

1486
00:50:40,319 --> 00:50:44,319
in your group

1487
00:50:41,839 --> 00:50:46,960
i've also tried out uh many things i

1488
00:50:44,319 --> 00:50:49,280
have this homebrew pathfinder campaign

1489
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,280
and that's really it was my playground

1490
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,640
for trying out new new things new

1491
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:56,640
structures

1492
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:59,280
and well i don't think 50 percent of

1493
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:01,520
things i tried really took

1494
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,040
but those that did improve the game

1495
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,359
so it's just uh

1496
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,680
trying see what we're throwing stuff at

1497
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:09,280
the wall and steve see what sticks

1498
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,040
which makes it worthwhile the ones that

1499
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,599
have improved the game that's a net you

1500
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,400
know benefit there for little to no cost

1501
00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:15,599
so

1502
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,359
absolutely

1503
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:19,440
try and have a look at these

1504
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:22,079
systemic problems that are causing you

1505
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:23,760
to maybe fudge dice to i'm now trying to

1506
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:26,559
you know leverage us back on the back on

1507
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,559
the railroad uh

1508
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,800
to look at those you know lower level

1509
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,720
problems that are maybe leading you down

1510
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,800
the garden path of

1511
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:36,480
what's another you know after all why

1512
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,599
shouldn't i fudge another dice here you

1513
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:41,839
know that mentality is is often uh it

1514
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:44,480
can be an inhibitor

1515
00:51:41,839 --> 00:51:48,800
but to give an example funny anecdote um

1516
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:51,440
of how swingy combat is is um

1517
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:53,440
i took a friend uh jamie he's been in a

1518
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,839
couple of episodes before

1519
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,359
uh through his first d d experience it

1520
00:51:55,839 --> 00:51:58,960
was it was one-on-one

1521
00:51:57,359 --> 00:52:00,240
i was his dm

1522
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,559
and

1523
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:03,839
the combat obviously like it's a known

1524
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:05,440
fact that obviously combat we've

1525
00:52:03,839 --> 00:52:07,520
discussed is swingy

1526
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,760
and it really breaks down

1527
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:12,480
basically with like two characters and

1528
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:14,240
then past seven characters it i think

1529
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,800
wizards of themselves have said

1530
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:18,559
the system isn't designed for that many

1531
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,400
or that for you like it's that's not a

1532
00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:22,400
secret that's just you know that's the

1533
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,079
limits of the maths right it's

1534
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,559
something's got to give somewhere yeah

1535
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:28,400
so one i think he was even level one i

1536
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:29,839
might have said level two at that point

1537
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,240
but it was one obviously one player

1538
00:52:29,839 --> 00:52:33,760
character level two and i wanted him to

1539
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:35,280
get a taste of

1540
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:38,160
rolling dice

1541
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,680
and you know having combat in quotes

1542
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,440
and the best thing i could come up with

1543
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:44,720
was i think for

1544
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:48,559
like three cats or something in a field

1545
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:50,559
in a meadow um okay like cr0 cats you

1546
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:52,319
know like five hp

1547
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:54,640
you know plus zero to hit

1548
00:52:52,319 --> 00:52:56,559
one d4 slashing damage

1549
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,079
and that that was what was maybe

1550
00:52:56,559 --> 00:52:59,599
balanced for that

1551
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:01,520
and even that was like

1552
00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:03,599
he could die but it just it just makes

1553
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,680
me smile because i'm like how absurd it

1554
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:06,640
is he's still an adventurer he's still

1555
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,640
like

1556
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,559
someone who's better than the average

1557
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,660
person even still could die to some

1558
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:12,960
house cats like

1559
00:53:11,660 --> 00:53:15,520
[Laughter]

1560
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:18,160
well yeah i i agree those are the limits

1561
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,359
of the system i think yeah yeah that was

1562
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,450
a real like

1563
00:53:19,359 --> 00:53:23,200
bleeding edge of

1564
00:53:20,450 --> 00:53:26,400
[Laughter]

1565
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:28,079
stretching it as much as it would go

1566
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,079
i know we've talked about like an awful

1567
00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:31,920
lot and all sorts of weird and wonderful

1568
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:33,920
bits and bobs but

1569
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,480
i wanted to finish on

1570
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:38,640
from my perspective of

1571
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,880
a lot of the times you find yourself

1572
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:43,280
asking the question of should i

1573
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:45,119
fudge here or

1574
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,559
let's just say that was actually

1575
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:49,040
another number

1576
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:51,040
uh often because of

1577
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,640
other reasons that might not be obvious

1578
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,160
i think that was probably my biggest

1579
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:56,400
takeaway from

1580
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,680
your threads and the discussion today is

1581
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,079
like

1582
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,440
is that there's a system in um

1583
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:03,680
i'm gonna get my business head on for a

1584
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,440
second in quality control and quality

1585
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,839
management in in organizations and

1586
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:10,240
production environments of the five wise

1587
00:54:07,839 --> 00:54:12,319
yeah i'm familiar with it yeah when a

1588
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:14,640
problem has been identified

1589
00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:16,319
you were late to ship a product you ask

1590
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,160
you know why we'll be late because we

1591
00:54:16,319 --> 00:54:20,000
didn't get it into the storehouse

1592
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,520
in time okay well why didn't you get

1593
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,520
into this or housing time oh because the

1594
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,680
car broke down or why did the car break

1595
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,680
down oh because we didn't take it for

1596
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,800
its service why didn't we take it for a

1597
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,000
service

1598
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:34,319
you know and you keep asking why and

1599
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,880
when you hit five times that's that is

1600
00:54:34,319 --> 00:54:39,119
the actual thing you need to fix

1601
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:41,359
and i think a similar thing can be

1602
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:42,799
applied so why am i in a position where

1603
00:54:41,359 --> 00:54:44,720
i'm fine you know i'm having to fudge

1604
00:54:42,799 --> 00:54:46,640
this stuff absolutely that's actually a

1605
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:48,960
very good remark

1606
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,559
thank you this is uh to try and make an

1607
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,000
example up on the spot it's say say

1608
00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:53,839
you're in that position of okay i've

1609
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,839
just rolled a natural 20 and it's going

1610
00:54:53,839 --> 00:54:56,880
to kill this player character well why

1611
00:54:55,839 --> 00:54:58,319
am i

1612
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,240
why are they in a situation where that's

1613
00:54:58,319 --> 00:55:02,319
happened if you know you're not being

1614
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:04,000
transparent and it's a big enough a deal

1615
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:05,599
at that point that it isn't just the

1616
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,680
players have done something ridiculously

1617
00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:08,640
stupid that

1618
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,960
you know

1619
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,400
to tangent again is i've recorded a

1620
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:15,760
really good episode on player agency

1621
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:18,079
with scott optional rule and

1622
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:20,559
he is a big proponent of

1623
00:55:18,079 --> 00:55:22,720
like the dice dictate the outcome

1624
00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:24,640
but the players have had agency up until

1625
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:26,480
that point and that mirrors what we were

1626
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,799
talking about earlier on that like the

1627
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,240
dice aren't taking away agency

1628
00:55:28,799 --> 00:55:31,440
that's the decisions they've made up

1629
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:33,520
until that point right if they've

1630
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:36,640
decided to go into a fight naked on two

1631
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:38,400
hp then yeah they're gonna die

1632
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,920
and no amount of fudging is gonna get

1633
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,160
them out of that position

1634
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,760
so it's that five wise of oh okay but

1635
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,400
why is he why have they found themselves

1636
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,520
and if you know if the answer is

1637
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,160
because they've made some foolish

1638
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:52,000
decisions as player characters then well

1639
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,920
you shouldn't fudge exactly that's

1640
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,480
that's the nature of the game right

1641
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:58,799
you're trying to put put a band-aid on

1642
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,720
foolishness but say it's it's you know

1643
00:55:58,799 --> 00:56:02,480
no they've made the right decisions but

1644
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:05,200
it's a crit because oh it's actually a

1645
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:07,599
19 but this creature crits on it on a 19

1646
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,359
but then why why if we got that creature

1647
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:11,359
in oh because it fit the environment but

1648
00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:12,400
then you know you can you can just get

1649
00:56:11,359 --> 00:56:13,839
to the

1650
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,319
you're probably better at articulating

1651
00:56:13,839 --> 00:56:18,160
it than i am but but basically there's a

1652
00:56:16,319 --> 00:56:20,559
probably an obfuscated reason why you

1653
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,480
found yourself in that situation yeah i

1654
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:24,319
think also one of the main reasons is

1655
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,359
and we've discussed this uh a bit

1656
00:56:24,319 --> 00:56:27,680
earlier

1657
00:56:25,359 --> 00:56:29,520
is that many encounters

1658
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,440
differ to combat

1659
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,040
so you roll a random encounter

1660
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,160
some goblins jump from the bush and they

1661
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,839
attack you

1662
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,359
well the players have had no choice in

1663
00:56:35,839 --> 00:56:39,280
that so killing them in such an

1664
00:56:37,359 --> 00:56:42,079
encounter feels unfair to everyone at

1665
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:44,799
the table and you feel inclined to fudge

1666
00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:47,280
if on the other hand the goblins jump

1667
00:56:44,799 --> 00:56:49,520
from uh from the bush and they demand

1668
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:53,200
the characters surrender their gold

1669
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:54,960
or they kill them well that's choice

1670
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,960
again a very context sensitive choice

1671
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,720
based on your particular makeup of your

1672
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,960
party here

1673
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:03,119
yeah true but they can't render their

1674
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,720
gold

1675
00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:06,720
they can buy

1676
00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:08,720
they can buy some time they don't need

1677
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:11,839
to do that but

1678
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:14,000
by not defaulting to combat and

1679
00:57:11,839 --> 00:57:17,119
starting or picking up the thread of the

1680
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:19,520
game just before that players can can

1681
00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:21,599
start angling for a better position they

1682
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,839
can start a distraction

1683
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:26,240
so it goes deeper than that

1684
00:57:23,839 --> 00:57:27,760
and then if it all boils down to play a

1685
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,680
choice well

1686
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:32,079
if they made those choices that lead to

1687
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:34,559
that combat which leads to the idea

1688
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:36,079
i wouldn't be inclined to fudge

1689
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:37,680
but again the fight the five why is in

1690
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:39,119
that situation is maybe they've made

1691
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,400
that choice you know

1692
00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:42,799
you know say for example it's not

1693
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,880
goblins say if it's some archdemon

1694
00:57:42,799 --> 00:57:46,799
for example big difference yeah it's

1695
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,079
yeah yeah it's

1696
00:57:46,799 --> 00:57:49,359
okay this hit from the ice team is going

1697
00:57:48,079 --> 00:57:51,839
to kill this player why is he going to

1698
00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:53,280
do that because he's super strong okay

1699
00:57:51,839 --> 00:57:55,359
why is he super strong because he's an

1700
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,960
archdemon okay well then why is he

1701
00:57:55,359 --> 00:57:58,240
fighting the players

1702
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,920
ah because

1703
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,760
the players have

1704
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:03,280
acted aggressively towards him okay well

1705
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,960
why did they act aggressively towards

1706
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,920
him

1707
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,920
that

1708
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,160
is the root problem there and in this

1709
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:13,280
example it's maybe it's because the gm

1710
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:15,040
didn't foreshadow it enough to say like

1711
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:17,359
this guy will kick your ass if you fight

1712
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:19,599
him yeah exactly so the player's

1713
00:58:17,359 --> 00:58:20,880
misconception there was we can take him

1714
00:58:19,599 --> 00:58:23,040
and then now you've painted yourself

1715
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:26,160
into a corner of okay well either they

1716
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:27,839
die or i have to really pull his punches

1717
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:30,559
making him weaker than he actually is

1718
00:58:27,839 --> 00:58:32,240
which is kind of deflating

1719
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:34,160
or you've given yourself

1720
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,359
a lot more work to do some other

1721
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:38,079
non-combat

1722
00:58:35,359 --> 00:58:40,079
alternative imprisonment which is

1723
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:42,640
iffy or

1724
00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:45,040
yeah that's something else yeah exactly

1725
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,960
so it's it's you keep asking why and

1726
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,960
it's oh because whoops

1727
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,160
i had him stop his toe when he met the

1728
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,520
players and the players thought that was

1729
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,880
funny and stupid and they thought they

1730
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,040
could take him when in reality no he

1731
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:57,839
commands hordes of demons who will tell

1732
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:59,599
you to shreds so uh

1733
00:58:57,839 --> 00:59:01,359
yeah

1734
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:04,160
um is there anything else you wanted to

1735
00:59:01,359 --> 00:59:07,119
talk about um no i i think we've covered

1736
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,240
all uh all the fudging articles so

1737
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:10,319
i'm happy

1738
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,520
it's been a whistle stop tour of a lot

1739
00:59:10,319 --> 00:59:13,040
of

1740
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:16,000
like heavy

1741
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:18,079
ish and weighted topics i think there's

1742
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,960
a lot here to unpack that i don't think

1743
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:21,280
either

1744
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,559
you know we could do in an hour or even

1745
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,319
you know your seven threads were

1746
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:25,839
fantastic but even then it's you know

1747
00:59:24,319 --> 00:59:28,799
we've found new things to talk about and

1748
00:59:25,839 --> 00:59:31,440
stuff like it's just a brilliant i love

1749
00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:33,520
it because it's a crystalline example of

1750
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,960
something that seems benign

1751
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,240
but in reality

1752
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:39,040
really isn't

1753
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:41,440
in the long run it isn't i still think

1754
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:43,839
that in your example of the archdemon

1755
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:46,160
well perhaps at the point you should

1756
00:59:43,839 --> 00:59:47,359
fudge to save the players and those five

1757
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,240
why is it something you ask yourself

1758
00:59:47,359 --> 00:59:50,319
after

1759
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,839
and yes you take that to your next

1760
00:59:50,319 --> 00:59:54,319
encounter and you don't make the same

1761
00:59:51,839 --> 00:59:56,079
mistake yeah precisely sorry i'm not so

1762
00:59:54,319 --> 00:59:57,599
i don't mean to imply that like you whip

1763
00:59:56,079 --> 01:00:00,000
out your quality health and safety

1764
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:02,240
manual in the middle of come back to

1765
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,319
start doing like a fish back as much

1766
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,920
deliciousness yeah no absolutely no

1767
01:00:04,319 --> 01:00:08,799
thank you for clarifying that yeah for

1768
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:10,720
sure for sure cool okay well

1769
01:00:08,799 --> 01:00:13,280
what a interesting

1770
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:16,000
rollercoaster swingy in of itself

1771
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:19,280
discussion on dice rules and

1772
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,880
methodologies and

1773
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:23,040
politics and

1774
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:24,960
personality types and all sorts of weird

1775
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,559
and wonderful stuff that gets bundled

1776
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,799
into this discussion so thank you very

1777
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:31,040
much bart thanks for having me is there

1778
01:00:28,799 --> 01:00:35,200
anything you would like to plug

1779
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:37,040
um let's see i'm currently uh

1780
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:39,040
lucky enough to be involved in a few

1781
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:42,160
exciting projects

1782
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:44,000
most notably it's the terminator rpg

1783
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,319
which is now a kickstarter which you

1784
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:48,400
might want to check out um

1785
01:00:46,319 --> 01:00:50,319
i did just a very very small part of

1786
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:52,079
that i designed the hacking rules but

1787
01:00:50,319 --> 01:00:54,720
that's about it

1788
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:58,160
another thing i've been working on is

1789
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:59,680
the gaia complex which is a cyberpunk uh

1790
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,680
role-playing game

1791
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,760
by hanza publishing

1792
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:06,880
that's also worth checking out it's got

1793
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:08,160
uh vampires and cyberpunk so that's

1794
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,280
that's a winning combination in my

1795
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,200
opinion

1796
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,880
and i do most of my work for raging

1797
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:15,040
swamp press

1798
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,440
i have some new adventures coming out

1799
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:20,000
soon i think next month

1800
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:22,480
and finally you can find me on twitter

1801
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,760
as at cryptographer

1802
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:26,880
and i post

1803
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:28,319
daily inspirational stuff or gm advice

1804
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,119
or just

1805
01:01:28,319 --> 01:01:32,640
things i i like all sorts yeah

1806
01:01:31,119 --> 01:01:34,559
absolutely all the links will be in the

1807
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,319
episode description

1808
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:37,520
to everything we've discussed today

1809
01:01:36,319 --> 01:01:39,920
including those awesome sounding

1810
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:44,079
projects yeah you had me at vampires and

1811
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:46,559
cyberpunk as they say excellent

1812
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:48,480
uh otherwise thank you again bart

1813
01:01:46,559 --> 01:01:50,640
yeah again thanks for having me that's

1814
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:54,400
all right uh thank you everyone to

1815
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:57,119
listening at home as usual please reach

1816
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:59,119
out on all the socials available on the

1817
01:01:57,119 --> 01:02:02,240
websites otherwise thank you all for

1818
01:01:59,119 --> 01:02:07,429
listening and good night

1819
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:07,429
[Music]

Bart Wynants (Critographer) Profile Photo

Bart Wynants (Critographer)

Author

Bart’s first brush with the hobby started with the discovery of HeroQuest, in the early 90s. He was always the kid who played the bad guy, and it seems he’s been stuck behind the GM screen ever since. His three campaigns are currently on a covid-hiatus and he can’t wait to revisit Curse of Strahd which, thirteen sessions in, has already gone completely off the rails! “As any good campaign should” he claims.
Since 2018, Bart has been working as a freelance writer, designer and fantasy cartographer and is currently involved in several exciting projects! He’s also active on Twitter, sharing bits of history and folklore to serve as writing inspiration, as well as banging out the odd article on GM tips and advice.